Knights stance question

Nadain · 03-06-2005, 04:43 PM

Just got 22nd on my SK and also bought a copy of knights stance adept 1. I run with a three person group of RL friends most days (SK me, defiler, warlock) and we did pretty good on blue con group mobs and even white con groups. We went out Friday night and normally I put intervene (adept 1) on the warlock since he is normally drunk and always trigger happy LOL. This time I instead used knights stance on myself. Now I know it reduces DPS but as you can see by our group make up I am NOT the DPS of the group SMILEY

. My defiler friend noticed it right off and asked if I had upgraded my armor since she was having a way easier time healing. I did not notice any differance in holding agro. In the end we moved and stated killing yellow and orange group mobs. Is this something that will work now but in a few levels will only get me killed?

Siner · 03-06-2005, 05:04 PM

Basically from now on you will use knight stance, or the upgrade, for the rest of your life (barring SA duties). Get use to having that spell on all the time.

Joxer · 03-06-2005, 05:29 PM

The DPS loss is really not that much.

The loss dissapears completely if you use Unholy Order

Narben Von Nacht · 03-06-2005, 07:20 PM

AS has been pointed out in other threads, Knights Stance adept 1 adds 5 to your defence skill. You're effectively tanking with the defence of a character 1 level higher than you are. As was noticed by your healer this makes a huge difference.My standard self buffs are Vigor of Trust, Grim Harbringer & the lvl 20 training version of Knights Stance - Zarns Deadly Aura.Adept 1 Vigor of Trust rules btw, gotta love +15 to STR & STA SMILEY

Sardunos · 03-07-2005, 01:34 AM

Knights stance and Unholy order...almost always. If I'm not the MT and just looking for DPS Ill remove the stance and use those three extra concentration slots to buff the other fighters with Vigor of trust.

Nadain · 03-07-2005, 06:07 AM

Thanks guys for all the help SMILEY

. Glad to know I am doing that part right LOL

pyroglyph · 03-07-2005, 01:10 PM

I find Zarn's Deadly Aura to be a worthwhile choice as well.

The_Witchfind · 03-07-2005, 01:37 PM

Maybe I need to upgrade, but am I the only one who finds Knight's Stance is better than Lucan's Pact?

Ando · 03-07-2005, 05:49 PM

The_Witchfinder wrote:

Maybe I need to upgrade, but am I the only one who finds Knight's Stance is better than Lucan's Pact?

Lucan doesn't lower slashing skill, so if you wield a sword like Ghoulbane there is no disadvantage
to use it at all. I often have Lucan on at all times, even as 2nd tank since if the MT goes down,
you already have a defensive stance up.

At adept 1, Lucan gives +8 to defense.

/Kale

The_Witchfind · 03-08-2005, 01:48 PM

AndorV wrote:

Lucan doesn't lower slashing skill, so if you wield a sword like Ghoulbane there is no disadvantage
to use it at all. I often have Lucan on at all times, even as 2nd tank since if the MT goes down,
you already have a defensive stance up.

At adept 1, Lucan gives +8 to defense.

I suppose that answers my question. I've been searching for an upgrade, but I've not found anything on the broker, and I don't know where the Adept 1 drops.

As for Ghoulbane; I doubt I'm ever going to make it past the Cauldron Hollow raid.

QDOG5 · 03-08-2005, 07:16 PM

So is Lucan the upgrade to Knights Stance?

Ando · 03-08-2005, 08:13 PM

QDOG5 wrote:

So is Lucan the upgrade to Knights Stance?

Yes, its also the ones that gives the skelly form, and a LOT more 'you cant do that while...'.

Siner · 03-09-2005, 03:00 AM

The_Witchfinder wrote:
Maybe I need to upgrade, but am I the only one who finds Knight's Stance is better than Lucan's Pact?

Depends how close you are to maxing out Lucan's.

The_Witchfind · 03-09-2005, 03:59 AM

Sineri2 wrote:

Depends how close you are to maxing out Lucan's.

As noted in my earlier post, I still have it at App 1. I've not found an upgrade on brokers or loot, and I don't intend to pay for App II.

Toogel · 03-09-2005, 09:26 AM

if you cant get a adept 1 of Lucan's pact, then Zarn's Deadly Aura is slightly more advantageous.

App4 Lucan's adds 7 defense, poison resist, and -5 crushing (and piercing, but SKs dont get piercing so /boggle)

Zarn's Aura adds 7 defense, 3 spell avoidance, and -5 slashing/crushing (and piercing ... again /boggle)

The 3 Spell Avoidance edges out Lucan's Pact making Zarn's much more useful over an Apprentice 4 or lower Lucan's. Even at Adept 1, Lucan's +1 defense still may not be better because of the spell damage avoidance from Zarn's.

I am a relious user of Zarn's over Lucan's and I dont have to look at the "You cant do that..." spam.

Alkie · 03-09-2005, 10:15 AM

SK's can do piercing, you just need a flamberge... It's a sword that does piercing damage. Crazy, eh?Haathud

Quaan · 03-09-2005, 12:38 PM

The zarns I use (chose it as one of attribute skills, think its master 1) also has +5 to sheilds.

Dont use Lucans at all.

The_Witchfind · 03-09-2005, 01:37 PM

Alkiera wrote:
SK's can do piercing, you just need a flamberge... It's a sword that does piercing damage. Crazy, eh?

Not as far out as it sounds. Historically, more swords than you might imagine were used as thrusting weapons rather than as hacking weapons.

Ando · 03-09-2005, 03:09 PM

The_Witchfinder wrote:

As noted in my earlier post, I still have it at App 1. I've not found an upgrade on brokers or loot, and I don't intend to pay for App II.

App 1?? An app1 will always be unusable as replacement spell when you just receive them. You

can't expect them to compare.

App3 / 4 can be crafted. Just ask someone to craft it if you can't find one on the broker.

I don't remember what i had to pay for adept 1, but it was expensive. I have only seen it twice on our brokers.

Margen · 03-11-2005, 12:07 AM

I will be honest I am not a big fan of Knights stance, not due to the DPS loss but due to the 3 concentration points it cost (seems a bit stiff for what it does). I perfer casting Vigor of trust on group mates versus Knights stance. Mind you I admit I am only level 21 so don't claim to be an expert in the Shadowknight world. And everyone has their own way of playing but just the way I see it at this time.

Thanks

Blackoath 21 Shadowknight

Baelzharon · 03-11-2005, 12:15 AM

Margen wrote:
I will be honest I am not a big fan of Knights stance, not due to the DPS loss but due to the 3 concentration points it cost (seems a bit stiff for what it does). I perfer casting Vigor of trust on group mates versus Knights stance. Mind you I admit I am only level 21 so don't claim to be an expert in the Shadowknight world. And everyone has their own way of playing but just the way I see it at this time.
Thanks
Blackoath 21 Shadowknight

Those 3 Concentration points is well spent if you are tanking because it raises your natural defense level which equals less damage when you do get hit. At the early 20s the mobs don't hit very hard but when you get higher the difference between 5 points in defense is the difference of 100's of points of damage during a fight.

Aion · 03-11-2005, 12:22 AM

As Quaan pointed out, Knights stance and Zarn's Deadly aura give a bonus to your shield abilities, which is huge.I think the best way to look at is like this... If you are MT and using a shield (which you should be if you are MT) then Zarn's Deadly Aura and knights stance is far greater than Lucan's Pact. If you are second tank, or MT that just doesnt want to use a shield, as long as you are using a slash weapon, then you have nothing to lose by using Lucan's pact (except the concentration slots), but if you are using a maul or crushing weapon, your DPS will drop.

Pheeb · 03-17-2005, 03:05 AM

How many concentration points are required for Zarn's Deadly aura?is it 3 as for Knight Stance and Lucan's Pact?Thanks.

JoshKir · 03-17-2005, 07:51 PM

Ok, what about solo'ing?

I use 2h slash and HO with Power Cleave, Faithful Swing, Righteous Anger, Inflame. I only use Righteous Blow when my HO gets stuck.

I am 19th right now and using Knight Stance too. But I am wondering if its worth it because it reduces my slash. I know that Knight Stance helps your defense but does it help your defense when your NOT using a shield?

When I hit 20th I was thinking of getting Zarn's Aura, for when I group. Is there any advantage to getting Raltur's Siphon (Adv. Righteous Blow)?

Is there a level at which it becomes easier to solo with sword, shield & Zarn' Aura?

Lastly, is it better to have a good weapon and so-so fighting styles (App1/Ad1 mix) or should I spend more on fighting styles and less on a good weapon? Should I be spending more money upgrading my 2h weapon?

Thanks.

Toogel · 03-18-2005, 11:35 AM

JoshKirby wrote:

Ok, what about solo'ing?

I use 2h slash and HO with Power Cleave, Faithful Swing, Righteous Anger, Inflame. I only use Righteous Blow when my HO gets stuck.

I am 19th right now and using Knight Stance too. But I am wondering if its worth it because it reduces my slash. I know that Knight Stance helps your defense but does it help your defense when your NOT using a shield?

When I hit 20th I was thinking of getting Zarn's Aura, for when I group. Is there any advantage to getting Raltur's Siphon (Adv. Righteous Blow)?

Is there a level at which it becomes easier to solo with sword, shield & Zarn' Aura?

Lastly, is it better to have a good weapon and so-so fighting styles (App1/Ad1 mix) or should I spend more on fighting styles and less on a good weapon? Should I be spending more money upgrading my 2h weapon?

Thanks.

First of all, the only reason you should ever have your Knights Stance not buffed on you is if you are not the tank, in which case you can sack it for multiple castings of Vigor of Trust/CoS, etc... If you are receiving hits at all you should be stanced. Just a simple matter of damage mitigation, the less damage you take the longer you last. Call to Arms/Unholy Order etc., will offset the missing points in slashing and for the most part your regular hits arent your main source of damage anyways, which brings us to your other question.

A good two hand weapon should always be had, try to get the best your level can afford whenever possible, considering some are easily quested or bought Nerius Pirate is very cheap considering the number of people that do the quest and you the Twisted Black is an easy quest as you spend a lot of time in Fallen Gate in the prelevels before you can use it. Feysteel [Removed for Content] Sword in the late 20s is somewhat cheap considering how commonplace it is to get in Nektropos at times, generally making several available on broker for just over a gold to buy.

But... Upgrading your combat skills is a must, they are your main source of damage. My Main HO is using Fetid Grasp and Condeming Spirits (upgrades to righteous anger) followed by taunts as they are very low power for good damage. I think at 36 they both cost about 30ish power in comparison to the 50-80 power costing sword arts. Just bring along a healthy supply of tier made drinks and keep guzzling as you will need the power regen to offset our current high intensity spell costs.

Toogel · 03-18-2005, 11:40 AM

Also, I solo at 36 with Sword and Shield (Ghoulbane and Guard of Grumm). Shield allows for less damage taken which then equals less downtime between pulls. My 2 hand weapon is a feysteel warmaul as I like to keep my crushing up, and I only use it in groups when Im not the main tank and we arent fighting undead.

JoshKir · 03-18-2005, 08:36 PM

Thanks for the info.

I guess I'll upgrade my Rigteous Anger (App1) first then worry about my 2h sword. Will probably still solo with 2h slash and Knight Stance for now. With 2h slash I have three sword attacks (FaithSw, PwrC, RigthAnger) before I am forced to go to Righteous Blow. So I can save power that way. Hopefully, later on I will get a third 1h sword attack and possible move to sword & shield for solo'ing.

03-06-2005, 04:43 PM	#1
Nadain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 69	Just got 22nd on my SK and also bought a copy of knights stance adept 1. I run with a three person group of RL friends most days (SK me, defiler, warlock) and we did pretty good on blue con group mobs and even white con groups. We went out Friday night and normally I put intervene (adept 1) on the warlock since he is normally drunk and always trigger happy LOL. This time I instead used knights stance on myself. Now I know it reduces DPS but as you can see by our group make up I am NOT the DPS of the group. My defiler friend noticed it right off and asked if I had upgraded my armor since she was having a way easier time healing. I did not notice any differance in holding agro. In the end we moved and stated killing yellow and orange group mobs. Is this something that will work now but in a few levels will only get me killed?

03-06-2005, 07:20 PM	#4
Narben Von Nacht Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 61	AS has been pointed out in other threads, Knights Stance adept 1 adds 5 to your defence skill. You're effectively tanking with the defence of a character 1 level higher than you are. As was noticed by your healer this makes a huge difference.My standard self buffs are Vigor of Trust, Grim Harbringer & the lvl 20 training version of Knights Stance - Zarns Deadly Aura.Adept 1 Vigor of Trust rules btw, gotta love +15 to STR & STA __________________ Glide Troubador of Nexus Narben Necromancer of Nexus Najena Server

03-07-2005, 01:34 AM	#5
Sardunos Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Knights stance and Unholy order...almost always. If I'm not the MT and just looking for DPS Ill remove the stance and use those three extra concentration slots to buff the other fighters with Vigor of trust. __________________

03-07-2005, 06:07 AM	#6
Nadain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 69	Thanks guys for all the help. Glad to know I am doing that part right LOL

03-07-2005, 01:10 PM	#7
pyroglyph Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	I find Zarn's Deadly Aura to be a worthwhile choice as well. __________________

03-06-2005, 05:04 PM	#2
Siner Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 176	Basically from now on you will use knight stance, or the upgrade, for the rest of your life (barring SA duties). Get use to having that spell on all the time.

03-06-2005, 05:29 PM	#3
Joxer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 64	The DPS loss is really not that much. The loss dissapears completely if you use Unholy Order

03-07-2005, 01:37 PM	#8
The_Witchfind Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 96	Maybe I need to upgrade, but am I the only one who finds Knight's Stance is better than Lucan's Pact? __________________ Johia Ravenwood Lucan D'Lere

03-07-2005, 05:49 PM	#9
Ando Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	The_Witchfinder wrote: Maybe I need to upgrade, but am I the only one who finds Knight's Stance is better than Lucan's Pact? Lucan doesn't lower slashing skill, so if you wield a sword like Ghoulbane there is no disadvantage to use it at all. I often have Lucan on at all times, even as 2nd tank since if the MT goes down, you already have a defensive stance up. At adept 1, Lucan gives +8 to defense. /Kale __________________

03-08-2005, 01:48 PM	#10
The_Witchfind Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 96	AndorV wrote: Lucan doesn't lower slashing skill, so if you wield a sword like Ghoulbane there is no disadvantage to use it at all. I often have Lucan on at all times, even as 2nd tank since if the MT goes down, you already have a defensive stance up. At adept 1, Lucan gives +8 to defense. I suppose that answers my question. I've been searching for an upgrade, but I've not found anything on the broker, and I don't know where the Adept 1 drops. As for Ghoulbane; I doubt I'm ever going to make it past the Cauldron Hollow raid. __________________ Johia Ravenwood Lucan D'Lere

03-08-2005, 07:16 PM	#11
QDOG5 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 63	So is Lucan the upgrade to Knights Stance?

03-08-2005, 08:13 PM	#12
Ando Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	QDOG5 wrote: So is Lucan the upgrade to Knights Stance? Yes, its also the ones that gives the skelly form, and a LOT more 'you cant do that while...'. __________________

03-09-2005, 03:00 AM	#13
Siner Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 176	The_Witchfinder wrote: Maybe I need to upgrade, but am I the only one who finds Knight's Stance is better than Lucan's Pact? Depends how close you are to maxing out Lucan's.

03-09-2005, 03:59 AM	#14
The_Witchfind Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 96	Sineri2 wrote: Depends how close you are to maxing out Lucan's. As noted in my earlier post, I still have it at App 1. I've not found an upgrade on brokers or loot, and I don't intend to pay for App II. __________________ Johia Ravenwood Lucan D'Lere

03-09-2005, 09:26 AM	#15
Toogel Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 78	if you cant get a adept 1 of Lucan's pact, then Zarn's Deadly Aura is slightly more advantageous. App4 Lucan's adds 7 defense, poison resist, and -5 crushing (and piercing, but SKs dont get piercing so /boggle) Zarn's Aura adds 7 defense, 3 spell avoidance, and -5 slashing/crushing (and piercing ... again /boggle) The 3 Spell Avoidance edges out Lucan's Pact making Zarn's much more useful over an Apprentice 4 or lower Lucan's. Even at Adept 1, Lucan's +1 defense still may not be better because of the spell damage avoidance from Zarn's. I am a relious user of Zarn's over Lucan's and I dont have to look at the "You cant do that..." spam.

03-09-2005, 10:15 AM	#16
Alkie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 31	SK's can do piercing, you just need a flamberge... It's a sword that does piercing damage. Crazy, eh?Haathud

03-09-2005, 12:38 PM	#17
Quaan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 75	The zarns I use (chose it as one of attribute skills, think its master 1) also has +5 to sheilds. Dont use Lucans at all.

03-09-2005, 01:37 PM	#18
The_Witchfind Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 96	Alkiera wrote: SK's can do piercing, you just need a flamberge... It's a sword that does piercing damage. Crazy, eh? Not as far out as it sounds. Historically, more swords than you might imagine were used as thrusting weapons rather than as hacking weapons. __________________ Johia Ravenwood Lucan D'Lere

03-09-2005, 03:09 PM	#19
Ando Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	The_Witchfinder wrote: As noted in my earlier post, I still have it at App 1. I've not found an upgrade on brokers or loot, and I don't intend to pay for App II. App 1?? An app1 will always be unusable as replacement spell when you just receive them. You can't expect them to compare. App3 / 4 can be crafted. Just ask someone to craft it if you can't find one on the broker. I don't remember what i had to pay for adept 1, but it was expensive. I have only seen it twice on our brokers. __________________

03-11-2005, 12:07 AM	#20
Margen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 648	I will be honest I am not a big fan of Knights stance, not due to the DPS loss but due to the 3 concentration points it cost (seems a bit stiff for what it does). I perfer casting Vigor of trust on group mates versus Knights stance. Mind you I admit I am only level 21 so don't claim to be an expert in the Shadowknight world. And everyone has their own way of playing but just the way I see it at this time. Thanks Blackoath 21 Shadowknight __________________ Blackoath Uglyone 80 Shadow Knight of Chaos Phang 80 Swashbuckler of Chaos You EVER going to fix SKs Sony?

03-11-2005, 12:15 AM	#21
Baelzharon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 231	Margen wrote: I will be honest I am not a big fan of Knights stance, not due to the DPS loss but due to the 3 concentration points it cost (seems a bit stiff for what it does). I perfer casting Vigor of trust on group mates versus Knights stance. Mind you I admit I am only level 21 so don't claim to be an expert in the Shadowknight world. And everyone has their own way of playing but just the way I see it at this time. Thanks Blackoath 21 Shadowknight Those 3 Concentration points is well spent if you are tanking because it raises your natural defense level which equals less damage when you do get hit. At the early 20s the mobs don't hit very hard but when you get higher the difference between 5 points in defense is the difference of 100's of points of damage during a fight.

03-11-2005, 12:22 AM	#22
Aion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 209	As Quaan pointed out, Knights stance and Zarn's Deadly aura give a bonus to your shield abilities, which is huge.I think the best way to look at is like this... If you are MT and using a shield (which you should be if you are MT) then Zarn's Deadly Aura and knights stance is far greater than Lucan's Pact. If you are second tank, or MT that just doesnt want to use a shield, as long as you are using a slash weapon, then you have nothing to lose by using Lucan's pact (except the concentration slots), but if you are using a maul or crushing weapon, your DPS will drop. __________________ ---------------------- Don't you get it?! You see the hat? I am Mrs. Nesbit!!

03-17-2005, 03:05 AM	#23
Pheeb Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 317	How many concentration points are required for Zarn's Deadly aura?is it 3 as for Knight Stance and Lucan's Pact?Thanks.

03-17-2005, 07:51 PM	#24
JoshKir Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	Ok, what about solo'ing? I use 2h slash and HO with Power Cleave, Faithful Swing, Righteous Anger, Inflame. I only use Righteous Blow when my HO gets stuck. I am 19th right now and using Knight Stance too. But I am wondering if its worth it because it reduces my slash. I know that Knight Stance helps your defense but does it help your defense when your NOT using a shield? When I hit 20th I was thinking of getting Zarn's Aura, for when I group. Is there any advantage to getting Raltur's Siphon (Adv. Righteous Blow)? Is there a level at which it becomes easier to solo with sword, shield & Zarn' Aura? Lastly, is it better to have a good weapon and so-so fighting styles (App1/Ad1 mix) or should I spend more on fighting styles and less on a good weapon? Should I be spending more money upgrading my 2h weapon? Thanks.

03-18-2005, 11:35 AM	#25
Toogel Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 78	JoshKirby wrote: Ok, what about solo'ing? I use 2h slash and HO with Power Cleave, Faithful Swing, Righteous Anger, Inflame. I only use Righteous Blow when my HO gets stuck. I am 19th right now and using Knight Stance too. But I am wondering if its worth it because it reduces my slash. I know that Knight Stance helps your defense but does it help your defense when your NOT using a shield? When I hit 20th I was thinking of getting Zarn's Aura, for when I group. Is there any advantage to getting Raltur's Siphon (Adv. Righteous Blow)? Is there a level at which it becomes easier to solo with sword, shield & Zarn' Aura? Lastly, is it better to have a good weapon and so-so fighting styles (App1/Ad1 mix) or should I spend more on fighting styles and less on a good weapon? Should I be spending more money upgrading my 2h weapon? Thanks. First of all, the only reason you should ever have your Knights Stance not buffed on you is if you are not the tank, in which case you can sack it for multiple castings of Vigor of Trust/CoS, etc... If you are receiving hits at all you should be stanced. Just a simple matter of damage mitigation, the less damage you take the longer you last. Call to Arms/Unholy Order etc., will offset the missing points in slashing and for the most part your regular hits arent your main source of damage anyways, which brings us to your other question. A good two hand weapon should always be had, try to get the best your level can afford whenever possible, considering some are easily quested or bought Nerius Pirate is very cheap considering the number of people that do the quest and you the Twisted Black is an easy quest as you spend a lot of time in Fallen Gate in the prelevels before you can use it. Feysteel [Removed for Content] Sword in the late 20s is somewhat cheap considering how commonplace it is to get in Nektropos at times, generally making several available on broker for just over a gold to buy. But... Upgrading your combat skills is a must, they are your main source of damage. My Main HO is using Fetid Grasp and Condeming Spirits (upgrades to righteous anger) followed by taunts as they are very low power for good damage. I think at 36 they both cost about 30ish power in comparison to the 50-80 power costing sword arts. Just bring along a healthy supply of tier made drinks and keep guzzling as you will need the power regen to offset our current high intensity spell costs.

03-18-2005, 11:40 AM	#26
Toogel Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 78	Also, I solo at 36 with Sword and Shield (Ghoulbane and Guard of Grumm). Shield allows for less damage taken which then equals less downtime between pulls. My 2 hand weapon is a feysteel warmaul as I like to keep my crushing up, and I only use it in groups when Im not the main tank and we arent fighting undead.

03-18-2005, 08:36 PM	#27
JoshKir Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	Thanks for the info. I guess I'll upgrade my Rigteous Anger (App1) first then worry about my 2h sword. Will probably still solo with 2h slash and Knight Stance for now. With 2h slash I have three sword attacks (FaithSw, PwrC, RigthAnger) before I am forced to go to Righteous Blow. So I can save power that way. Hopefully, later on I will get a third 1h sword attack and possible move to sword & shield for solo'ing.