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03-11-2005, 02:22 PM
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#1 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
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UPDATE: Can everyone please check back over these issues and check that they still exist? At least one of these appears to have been fixed by stealth (ie: it was not in the patch message, but Dreadful Wrath seems to be working alright now), and I'm wondering how many more have been corrected.
Notes for contributors: I have avoided using "Decree of Decay" as an example of our lifetaps, as it is a taunt first and foremost. I have also tried to avoid listing "intangibles" such as raid effectiveness, because they are by definition "intangible". I'd like to concentrate (at least for now) on specific issues that developers can easily find and fix. Requests for information from other players are in italics. Resolved issues are in Insatiable Hunger: The lifetap effect of this ability only triggers for group members, and not for the casting Shadowknight. The Disease resistance component of this spell does not stack with our defensive stance (such as Unholy Aura). Unholy Aura: Upgrades to this ability are incorrectly named "Unhallowed Aura". Infernal Pact: The lifetap effect of this ability triggers at a far lower rate than stated in the description. Graven embrace: Graven Embrace appears to be either useless, or the description is incorrect. It would only be effective on non-agressive mobs, and uneffective against anything else. Draw strength: This ability does not stack with Vigor of Trust and Contract of Shadows. Siphon strength: This ability does not stack with Vigor of Trust and Contract of Shadows. Vile Coil: This is not an acceptable upgrade to the ability it is intended to replace. Rescue: This spell simply doesn't do what the description says. When used it apparently does nothing. The description indicates that an immediate result should occur. Dreadful Wrath: Lucans Pact: Cannot be used in conjunction with a mount, and many have also requested that the laugh effect be reduced; the laugh happens far too frequently and is very annoying! Unholy Blessing: Lifetap effect (on Adept 1, does this affect other spell levels?) is not working. Calculated Evasion: Does not stack correctly with other stat buffs. Death Cloud: The apprentice 1 description of this ability states: Inflict 93-155 Melee damage on targets in area, Inflict 29 damage on target and Decrease health of target by 29 every 5.3 seconds. It should also heal the caster for 76. This ability does not inflict single target damage, it has no single target DoT component, and no heal. Power consumption: The following abilities have power costs that far outweigh their utility:
Lifetaps: These perceived as "woefully inadequate", especially when compared to paladin heals. At level 22 paladins are able to heal over 200 hitpoints. However, far higher level Shadowknight lifetaps draw 40-50 health whilst inflicting only 100-110 damage, which can be resisted. Harm touch, Malefic Touch and Ruinous Touch: Harm touch type spells are underpowered, considering their 1/2 hour recharge timer. They are resisted too frequently, and do not scale as the Shadowknight levels. A reduction in the timer on these abilities would seem to be the appropriate solution. The potential impact of any mobs which can Harm Touch should be considered in any solution. Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 03-14-2005 01:23 AM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 03-16-2005 12:38 AM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 03-22-2005 12:32 AM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 03-23-2005 12:30 AM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 03-28-2005 11:42 PM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 04-06-2005 07:39 AM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 04-26-2005 12:55 AM Message Edited by The_Witchfinder on 05-04-2005 12:40 AM |
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03-11-2005, 05:28 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 53
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Infernal Pact: please comment on the status of this. The ward seems fine to me, but can we confirm that the lifetap element still isn't working? I have yet to see it proc a lifetap...have used it on every pull since the update...about 4 hours of playing. Power consumption: please comment on which particular abilities are costing too much power, and I'll add them to this list. Lifetaps seem to be huge powerhogs for the damage they do, so much so that I rarely ever use it. Taunts: It is currently the opinion that taunts work good for maintaining aggro, and are horrible for getting aggro back if it is lost. Please comment on whether they feel taunts are poor for all tank classes, or for Shadowknights in particular. I agree with the accessment here...can maintain it fairly well, but its a tough go if I lose it for any number of reasons. Would also like to point out that some group encounters are IMO bugged, meaning when the first mob dies they all decide to turn on a caster or priest almost instantly. Graven embrace: Graven embrace still needs a bit of work. A "friend" was running aimlessly through a field of ^^ Fetid Blightrats when a few of them agroed him. He "unfortunately" happened to GE behind a group of hard working chars with very odd names like GFCG, DGJFS,...subsequently this group died.... He did further testing and GE seems to work only 20% of the time at most. |
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03-11-2005, 08:30 PM
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 176
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Okay here are the results of my tests:Power consumption: please comment on which particular abilities are costing too much power, and I'll add them to this list. Harm touch: Harm touch is widely seen as underpowered for a 1/2 hour recharge timer. It is commonly resisted entirely too much and does not scale as the shadowknight levels. A reduction in the timer on Harm Touch would seem to be the appropriate solution. Infernal Pact: please comment on the status of this. The ward seems fine to me, but can we confirm that the lifetap element still isn't working?
Confirmed 3/11/05 - spam still existsSorrow: Is supposed to add an extra attack and an AoE disease DoT, as current the DoT is non-functional. Actually i dont' want them to add the AoE to it. it is nice as is. AoE would only prevent you from using it with crowd control for piddly little exta damage Draw strength: If upgraded past Apprentice 1, this ability stops working alltogether. Confirmed 3/11/05 - apprentice 2 does work by itself but it does not stack with our self-buff at that level range, Vigor our Trust.Swarming spirits: This spell is supposed to be an AE lifetap, at current it does not lifetap, and only effects 4 mobs within range. Dreadful Wrath: Does not incease movement speed of the target as stated in the description. Please comment on the status of this ability. Dreadful Wrath: The spell icon does not dissapear form maintained spell window. Confirmed 3/11/05 - still not disappearing all the time.Add to the List: Siphon StrengthIf upgraded past Apprentice 1, this ability stops working alltogether. Confirmed 3/11/05 - apprentice 2 does work by itself but it does not stack with our self-buff at that level range, Contract of Shadows. Unholy Bessing: Confirmed 3/11/05 - life tap on adept1 does not work.
Message Edited by Sineri2 on 03-11-2005 07:33 AM Message Edited by Sineri2 on 03-11-2005 07:35 AM |
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03-11-2005, 10:13 PM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 67
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I think the patch said that Vigor of Trust was added to the crafting books... My SK is an Alchy, and has all the books, so I will confirm....
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 .... New Mantra for EQ2
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03-11-2005, 10:47 PM
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#5 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 105
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It might be better to compare like skills, instead of the lowest level Paladin heal and a higher version of a lifetap (as most might not see the glaring difference.)"Blessed Aid" - Paladins get at 22. The Adept 3 heals for 290 at level 22. If you cant afford the rare to make the Adp3, you can get the Adept1 which heals for a measly 266 at 23. I *think* it has a recast of 5s, but I could be wrong."Decree of Decay" - Shadowknights first lifetap (attained at 22.6), unless you chose the level 20 skill. At 22 I had the adept1, and it would damage for 5 and heal me for 4 (If I remember correctly), and proc only once while the spell is up. It has a recast of 30s.So...umm...a heal for 250+ every 5s, or a lifetap of 5/4 every 30s...thats not even close to a balance. Now, I dont want the Paladin heal nerfed at all. I think its just fine, and right about where it should be. I am asking for a massive increase in our lifetapping ability. Either allow Decree of Decay to tap for more, or have its duration increased and allow it to proc more than once...preferably both. |
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03-11-2005, 11:18 PM
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#6 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 254
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You know what would be nice? All those things are minor things and generally don't affect us in a group. They really don't. They are broken and do need fixed, don't get me wrong.. however they don't break the SK. In a group we're very useful, very affective, and very versatile. Unfortunately the fix we need is more intangible. I don't know how to fix it, but it DOES need fixed. SK simply do not add anything to a raid, in fact they are more of a detriment in terms of a "wasted" slot that can be better filled by a useful class. Up our mitigation, give us a buff that would be needed, give us better DPS.. something. It was heartbreaking watching my guild take a go at Vox and of all the classes, most were represented. There are only 2 SK in my guild, both were sidelined in favor of LOWER LEVEL people who were "more useful". Our purpose was "res duty" in case the guild died. Woot, thanks SoE.. I do have a purpose.. stand around watching while holding a feather.. so if the useful people die, I can go res them. Great. That's not what I had in mind when I made my Shadowknight and it's sad that my only option, to participate in a raid, is to roll up and level an alt of a different class.. or just hope they have an open spot and I won't be taking a space someone "useful" can fill. Fix that, please. I'm begging you. I really do love my Shadowknight, I've loved her for 49 levels. Please don't make me have to shelve her any time my guild raids so I can use my, "Created just so I can serve a purpose and be welcome on a raid" alt.  Message Edited by vTenebrae on 03-11-2005 10:21 AM |
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03-12-2005, 12:21 AM
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#7 |
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Tester
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 249
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Vigor of Trust was added to the craftables. I got an Adept 3 crafted like the day the patch came out (on test).
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03-12-2005, 02:34 AM
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 178
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WARDS I have issue on how this spell works for it does not seem to be in line with what we need as a tank and later when it gets a life tap ability it does not last long enough to be of use. There are class's that already have a ward ability and is far better then what we have so why just have a weaker version when we can have our own type. What we need is a different type of ward I feel for our class. One that is 40% larger then what we have now and works off the ARMOR CLASS we have and absorbs 35% of the incoming damage till the ward is used up. In effect this will soften the incoming blows AND it may last long enough for a few hits to actual come in where it can proc a Life Tap. I just dont see the logic in a spell that has a 5% proc ability that will be gone in 1 or 2 hits. This will not only make us better tanks but I feel can possible give us a step up towards Raid viability. RAID VIABILITY This is a issue that is tough to work on. As much as EQL had its faults, we seem to have traded them for a whole new class of faults in EQ2, that being class's being watered down in the name of game balance. When I think of the different tanks I think of them in a philosophical view ( bah, bet I misspelled that one ). Wars dish out physical attacks and use their skills to absorbe/mitigate incoming damage. Berzerkers can tank in a pinch but mainly have nasty burst dmg Paladins tank and dish out dmg but buff for that extra bit of tanking and heal/cure in a pinch when needed Monks/brusiers, well they are just mean, dodge dmg instead of taking it and dish the dmg out while doing hand stands and eating a snow cone. Shadow Knights, I wouldnt mind a tad more DPS but I think our ability should lie in that we Cripple our enemy so its not as effective in damaging us or anyone else in our group and THAT I think should really be our power, to CRIPPLE our foe's in a very noticable fashion. This will help us in groups and in raids. Problem is, most of the class's are to watered down in the name of balance and not enough is done to truely make us different from each other and make the whole of all our different tank abilitys better then the sum of one type of tank. I don't really have alot to say on the list above this post for alot the problems are much higher then my present lvl and I feel you guys are already on the right track and from what I know at the 28th lvl end of the game I pretty much agree with what is written above. Therefore I am just adding what little I can at this end and hope its worth some thought to other SKs out there. Haruchai 28 Shadow Knight Highkeep |
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03-12-2005, 09:50 AM
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 99
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"Graven embrace still needs a bit of work. A "friend" was running aimlessly through a field of ^^ Fetid Blightrats when a few of them agroed him. He "unfortunately" happened to GE behind a group of hard working chars with very odd names like GFCG, DGJFS,...subsequently this group died.... He did further testing and GE seems to work only 20% of the time at most." So its not fluff after all AHAHAHAHAHAHHA! :smileyvery-happy: |
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03-12-2005, 02:43 PM
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#10 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 91
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There are only 2 SK in my guild, both were sidelined in favor of LOWER LEVEL people who were "more useful". Our purpose was "res duty" in case the guild died. Woot, thanks SoE.. I do have a purpose.. stand around watching while holding a feather.. so if the useful people die, I can go res them. Great That sucks bad ouch honestly I dont think i wouldve done it you must love that guild.
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03-12-2005, 02:46 PM
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#11 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 15
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Power consumption: please comment on which particular abilities are costing too much power, and I'll add them to this list.Consume Vitae- The power for this needs to be cut by at least 1/3 for the effect it has. All of the Coils needs a few power bumped off its cost.The Draw Strength line is rediculous. Complete waste of power, syphons no useful amount of Str, and lasts for a pitiful amount of time.Grim Sword could use 10-15 power bumped off its cost.Raltur's Syphoning Strike - Needs to either have its lifetap increated significantly, or a huge power reduction.Infernal Pact/Unholy Blessing - Could use its power being bumped down a little.I find a huge problem with SKs is that when I end a fight vs a white/yellow solos, my health is generally 85% or so, but my power is shot. Down to as little as 20% sometimes, for a solo encounter. This gets better as SKs level up. At level 40.6 I find now vs white noncasters I can end a battle with 90% health and 65% power on average by playing it smart and cycling our most efficient spells. For those SKs at level 20, up till the late 30s there is a hugggggggggggge slowdown in pulls because of power regeneration that needs serious tweaking. I feel SKs start to come into its own as a solo class at level 40, when we we've gotten Baleful Smite and Dreadful Wrath, which used in conjunction can put up up some good numbers.Oh, and I think that at Adept I, Graven Embrace should have a chance to work vs mobs higher then you. Maybe its only 25%, but a chance would be nice...
Message Edited by Argaman on 03-12-2005 04:48 AM |
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03-12-2005, 03:58 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 176
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Update:Did some more testing; so please update the original post to reflect this info.Calculate Evasion: - Does not stack with our self-concentration stat buff, Contract of Shadows. Adept 1 of Calc. Evasion is supposed to add 21 agility to us, but 21 seems to be the cap and since Adept 1 Contract of shadows adds 17, calc. Evasion ends up only adding 4 agility. This needs to be fixed so they stack. Since we dont' have tower shields nor ranged slots, these are supposed to stack to put us closer to guards/zerkers.Also, since AC has been redone the amount of AC added by all our support buffs needs to be redone. Adding 150 AC (as done by our Calc. evasion) when for a wizard in the high 40s is over 4k is rediculous.Confirmed: 3/12/05
Message Edited by Sineri2 on 03-12-2005 02:59 AM |
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03-12-2005, 04:57 PM
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#13 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 254
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I really do, they're great people. They were sparing me debt, which was nice.. but I wish I could have been more help. That's all. |
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03-12-2005, 05:29 PM
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#14 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 12
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Speaking on Graven Embrace. I'm a 29 sk and GE is adept 1. While examining the ability it says I have a 0% chance of it working on mobs lvl 26 and higher. The last couple of times I've used it, it in fact did not work at all in a couple of different scenarios. Using it on healer while back-up tank, using on myself while soloing, and while being grouped but using it on myself while we were all looking for each other. Worthless spell, after the last failure it was removed from my hot bar.
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03-13-2005, 05:20 AM
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 60
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Just suggestions based on the formatting/vocabulary of the post, as I remain of the opinion that the better it looks, the more likely the information is to be directly passed along.1.Lifetaps: Remove "they are" from first sentence, and "the spell" from the last.2.Harm Touch: 'commonly resisted entirely too much' is redundant, go with either 'commonly resisted' or 'resisted quite often'.3.Taunts: 'currently the opinion' would read better as 'currently popular opinion', and 'work well' sounds much better than 'work good'. Change 'and are horrible' to 'but are horrible'.4.Swarming Spirits: 'at current' can be re-written to 'currently'.5.Dreadful Wrath: It's been a while since I've played, is this really 'wraith', or is it 'wrath'? secondly, you have it listed twice, and shouldn't it read 'decrease'?Anyhow, I don't claim to be an expert, so if I've missed anything, you've my apologies, just attempting to help in the formatting of our compilation.
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-Adonae Perpetua Shadowknight, Kithicor |
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03-13-2005, 01:32 PM
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#16 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 176
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Please update the original post.
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03-13-2005, 03:00 PM
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19
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Life taps either do not heal enough or take too much power. Lucan's pact has no bonus to shields or spell avoidance. Very sad weapon selection. please fix this or at least respond? Taunting I am 50/50 on. For the most part i have no problem with this but sometimes it seems like I stop gaining hate and the mob will turn on the healers or whoever else happens to be there. This could be due to some other issues that I will not pretend to know? GE - serious waste of time. Give this spell a % to work on any mob up to our current level ( at least 25% i would think ). Harm touch, The resist I have noticed is not too much of a problem but this may change post 30ish but, the damage is a bit low imo for the 30min reuse. Weapon selection - see above and yes i state it twice cause i see it as one of the biggest problems. For a side not i don't expect to be a guardian nor do I want to be but I would like to be a SK some day.... p.s. sorry for any errors and [Removed for Content] on you peopel who take the time to correct it =) if you have nothing constructive to add don't bother posting.
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03-13-2005, 03:33 PM
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#18 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 304
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I always use my disease debuff before I harm Touch (currently level 40 with master 1 Malefic Touch) and get resisted about 20-25% of the time (on green and blue mobs non named) which given the 30 minute timer is very disappointing. |
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03-14-2005, 12:46 AM
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#19 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 254
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A well constructed, properly written letter/post is more likely to be taken seriously than one reft with errors. The person who took the time to make the corrections WAS offering something very constructive. GMs are more likely to listen to a well thought out post from an adult than an error riddled whine from a child. "Please fix our taunts, they don't seem to be functioning correctly" is going to get more notice than "R taunts iz sux fix tehm plz".Don't be a jerk because someone was trying to be helpful in a way you didn't understand.As for the GE issue, I don't think Graven Embrace itself should be fixed. It IS a low level spell. However, it has no upgrade. At all. Give us an upgrade to that very useful, defining spell. I understand that this isn't EQ1, but we have Harm Touch. Why can we not have a proper Feign Death? No, it won't be as good/useful as Monk FD (it wasn't in EQ1 either), but give us something. 0% chance on mobs over level 28? Oh that's very helpful to me, at level 50 :p Message Edited by vTenebrae on 03-13-2005 11:50 AM |
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03-14-2005, 11:42 AM
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#20 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19
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lets stick to the issue at hand instead of making assumptions or correcting people. Whatever is worth being looked at will be looked at. -Thanks Message Edited by Suinimra on 03-13-2005 11:06 PM |
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03-14-2005, 12:06 PM
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#21 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 304
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Still it isnt the wisest idea to allow the Ogre Sk to write our complaint to Sony? I have contacted the finest Ogre law firm of Eetum Smushem und Burpz and they have drafted a preliminary draft to be sent to sony, I have moved most of it to lower case and put it on all on 1 page as opposed to 37 it came on originally, I think it might lose something tho. Deer Sonny, Me likee da smashy tings, und da cutty tings, me makes dem bleed gud wit deez, but me sea da odders hab pointee tings on da end of sticks, ya no, da long pokey tings. Me wantz to hert dem wit da pointee pokey tings to. Und choppy, me wantee choppy, choppie joo gud! Me hab many castee tings dat dont wurk like da smartees tolded me dey should. Castee hert da baddies und heel mez, but dey dont help me getz moor bludz, me bludz all obber da place wif no gud weighz to getz moor, me castee da life theiferz but dey no gib me blud. GIB ME BLUD CASTEES! Me hab peeple, dey help me smash, smash long time, LONG TIME! dey no likee da hertz, dey tell me to take all da hurtz, me tellz da baddies dey ugli, ugli leek joo, dat dey take tri hours to watch 60 minutes, but dey no hear gud und smash frail castees in dresses. Gib me m0r angee, angee to shur wit da baddies. Me hab castees, me uz castees and make sleepee fast. Joo gib me castees dat no gib sleepees! Me hab keez, me go see biggie baddies, dey hab da shinees, me wantee shinees! Guild no me wantee der, no me wantee to smash, dey say me no smash gud, me no bleed gud, me no angee gud. Joo hab no eers, me shout long time, LONG TIME und joo no gib. Me cut de eers ob da orcee, me make joo eer, und den joo gib? Ogu Wideload Ogre Aturnee at LoLz
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03-14-2005, 12:56 PM
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#22 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 176
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please update the original post
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03-14-2005, 12:58 PM
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#23 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19
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lol good stuff. it is not how it is said that matters but what is said. Keep it coming guys and maybe someone will listen =)
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03-14-2005, 02:34 PM
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#24 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
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The main post has been updated. Please continue to add comments and suggestions.
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03-14-2005, 06:40 PM
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#25 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 29
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From the Test Server Update notes ... "Shadowknight changes: - Sorrow will now unleash an AoE disease attack in addition to the DoT." So, hey - they are fixing one item on the list. One. Guess we should be happy they fixed any at all.
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/sigh "An unchallenged life is an unfulfilled life." |
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03-15-2005, 09:51 AM
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#26 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 176
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Actually i am not really happy they added aoe, that means we can't use that with a chanter and we already have 2 aoe lines. I would rather have sorrow with out it.
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03-15-2005, 10:47 AM
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19
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Not that I entirely care, since i quit, but just FYI Adept 3 Infernal Pact uses way too much frickin power.... imo at least, and it doesn't even do much more damage absorbtion more then App4 Demonstration of Faith. good luck with this, dont expect fixes any time soon though.. they've got... other issues... Message Edited by Turkeymeat on 03-14-2005 09:48 PM |
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03-15-2005, 03:21 PM
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#28 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
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I think it would help the devs if we prioritize the list to show the order WE want fixes to come in. I am sure this won't be easy, since it will be up to personal preference, but I am sure it would help if we try. My opinion on this matter, based on my lvl 46, is: 1. Error messages. They are just so annonying they HAVE to go, or at least be classified as an 'Error message' and not a 'Status message'. We all seen this error message once a second for our entire career. I am just simply amazed this hasn't been fixed yet. I /bug this once a week and i hope everyone else is doing the same. 2. Taunt. This is never an issue (at least for me) when im the only tank class in the group, but if there is another, it will become 300% easier to lose aggro for some reason, even if the other tank doesn't explicitly use any taunt ability and I use my group aggro and group buff whenever I can. 3. Power usage of the spells listed. Some of the spells are pretty nice and could really be used to fix some of the issues we see with DPS and lifetaps, but they aren't used much since they consume far too much power. /Kale
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03-16-2005, 10:11 AM
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#29 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 44
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I'm happy they are changing Sorrow (the line I hope and not just that specific spell). Agonizing cry doesn't do nearly as much dmg as it should. As it is right now with EBBC it hits for about 30dmg more than a normal hit. With the inclusion of AE even if it's only 40dmg it will at least hit the dmg numbers a bit better. Edit: Also, if it's AE hit like death cloud line.. hopefully it will have a chance to proc on the mobs in the encounter with each hit. Message Edited by Harkov on 03-15-2005 09:13 PM
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03-16-2005, 12:06 PM
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#30 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 572
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Just thought of something, sorrow requires a 2 handed sword to use, problem is when your MT of a group your always using a 1 handed weapon and sword, the only time you will actually use the new sorrow spell is when you are either soloing or off-tanking. also, consume vitea takes like 70+ power to use ( i forgot the actual number) and swarming spirits takes like 50+ power to use, and is an aoe. so whats my point?? they both give back about the same amount of health, around 60-70 pts of health, so when you first get swarming spirits its actually more productive to use it solo then consumea vitea ( if the aoe didnt take so long to use,,,, and ,,, oh yeah,,, if the liftap proc worked in the first place!!, which is doesnt so right now its only a damage spell and nothing more)
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Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051 |
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