raltur's Siphoning Strike (training skill lv20)

[Valam]

i alredy /feedback it anyway i tought to post it even on this forum

 

i'm quite disappointed by this skill, the training skills should be more powerfull/efficent version of our actual spells that help to better characterize our characters.

 

keeping this in mind here the stats of raltur's Siphoning Strike at lv 23

 

raltur's Siphoning Strike

Melee attack deal disease damage and siphons some health from the target

Seem quite clear that this attack seem to be a lifetap (even the name suggest that)

and so seem to be a SK impreved version of the crusader faithful swing

 

here the stats at lv23

power41
recast20

damage 65-70 against low level critters

lifetap 12

 

now let's compare it to

 

faithful swing (adept1)

an extra attack that grants a small amount of hit points to the crusader

here the stats at lv23

power22
recast10

damage 50-55 against low level critters

lifetap 22

 

first thing quite clear is that Faithgul swing's lifetap is almost twice as powerfull that the new skill

is also important to see that both the recast time and power cost are almost half of raltur's Siphoning Strike this means that in around 20 secs i can use 2 faithful swing or just 1 raltur's Siphoning Strike for the same amount of power, here the results

 

faithful swing

power used 44

damage 100-110

lifetap 44

 

raltur's Siphoning Strike

power used 41

damage 65-70

lifetap 12

as we can see the new skill is veeery inefficent compared to faithful swing

in almost the same amount of time, with almost the same power used it does 1/3 more damage

and almost 4x lifetap

 

another important thing to note is that when i was lv22 faithful swing's lifetap was 20 (+2 lifetap/lv) while raltur's Siphoning Strike was still 12 (+0 lifetap per level)

 

last note is that raltur's Siphoning Strike doesn't share faithful swing's icon, but Righteous Blow one even if they don't share the same timer, also the stats with a so high power cost and recast time are more similar to this skill, a thing that we can't guess reading the description where as said seem quite clear that raltur's Siphoning Strike seem to be the replacement faithful swing.

also even comparing it to Righteous Blow it doesn't seem to be a very good improvement.

I never use this skill, cause it very inefficent but the difference between the 2 seem to be 5-15 dmg and the 12 lifetap, this with Righteous Blow at app3, not an adept one.

 

for this new skill i will like to see it more similar to the description, so a viable lifetap instead of a very inefficent attack as it is now, an improvment of the lifetap effect making it scale with level should make it more efficent and usefull in battle.

 

[R.Dane]

At level 26 raltur's Siphoning Strike is the single best attack I have, period. it does more damage than any other melee attack that I have plus it heals for 12 hit points. Keep in mind that the lifetap does 10-12 damage or so more on top of the melee damage of this attack. Combine that with the fact that it does not share a timer with faithful swing and we have a couple of attacks that can give a small amount of healing.

[synome]

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Shadowknight (Level 20)

• Genux's Dark Embrace - An advanced form of Offering of Armament. As a bonus to Offering of Armament it increases disease mitigation.
• Phenzon's Ruthless Assault - An advanced form of Unyielding Advance. As a bonus to Unyielding Advance it deals instant disease damage.
• Zarn's Deadly Aura - An advanced form of Knight's Stance. As a bonus to Knight's Stance it grants spell avoidance.
• Raltur's Siphoning Strike - An advanced form of Righteous Blow. As a bonus to Righteous Blow it drains health on successful hit.

---

This was in the official post for it.  It is an advanced form of Righteous Blow and in my opinion is definately better.  Though I like the look of righteous blow better.

[Bannon]

Faithful swing is NOT a lifetap...its a small heal.

 

And at level 23...with APP3 of this skill...I get 15hp back.   AT MOST.  I use it for HOs and thats about it.

 

As for the Siphoning strike...its on a seperate timer from every other attack...so keep it on the bar...its actually a HIGH damage attack.

 

50-80 initial damage

10-15 disease damage

15 point lifetap.

 

Lifetaps TAKE life from the target and give it to you.  Heals(faithful swing) just heals you.

 

You will be doing more damage with this attack.  However, it's power cost is much better.

 

Also, its intended to upgrade righteous blow, NOT faithful swing.  So in effect...it is ALOT better.  DEFINATELY worth keeping on your toolbar.

[Valam]

is just a bit better than righteous blow, the damage is a not so much more, probably +30%, and there is the smaaaaaaaal lifetap but for what i see it get also resisted more often

 

anyway is way inferior to faithfull swing

 

the effect of a lifetap is yes offensive with the damage it does but is also defensive, improving the "caster" hits, and faithfull swing do that, and do that way better than raltur's siphoning strike, as said with almost same power and same time do around 1/3 more damage and "heal" 4x

 

for what i see raltur's Siphoning Strike have not many practical applycations, the damage at my level is marginally better than my Righteous Anger app3 with the difference that it cost 25 more power....

 

 

for these reasons i don't think that this skill is something that make my character more unique or that is a real improvement of my offensive powers....

if i need to stand as long as possible against a mob i use faithful swing, when i need to do efficent damage grim coil, righteos anger and faithful swing are way more efficent,,,,,

the only occasions i use it is when ihave plenty of power and my good skills are blackened as i'm awaiting them to recharge.

 

 

and just to note, before to /feedback it and to post here i also asked to my SK friends their opinion about it, all the ones that got it where as delused (if not more) than me.

[Seolta]

1. it's an SECOND healing attack

2. It's a melee attack which rocks

3. It's got a different icon than Faithful Swing and that's a GOOD thing...makes it much easier to distinguish from FSwing in the heat of battle.

4. Righteous Blow well...blows

5. It's a free bonus Adept2

 

It rock, less tiny violin!

[synome]

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50-80 initial damage

10-15 disease damage

15 point lifetap.

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Did you miss Bannon's post?  These numbers are accurate to what I get from this attack.  I don't know why you think faithful swing is superior to this.  Sure if your just looking at the heal amount, because the lifetap is resisted most often.  However the siphoning strike is meant to mostly deal damage and the lifetap is sometimes a bonus to that. 

It is not meant to be an improvement in anyway to faithful swing, but to righteous blow and compared to righteous blow it is a nice upgrade.  My righteous blow is adept 1 and does less damage I've seen around 50-75 maybe a bit higher but rarely on righteous blow.

 

[R.Dane]

With all due respect Valamir, you are completely wrong.Some of the other Training options definately need to be looked at, but this one is great.

[Joxer]

It's funny how Valamir completely forgets the Disease damage and the fact it's a lifetap and not a heal in his comparison, hence his comparison is majorly flawed.

[Coercit]

I fail to see the fun

[Valam]

ewwww the damage was alredy inculded

 

anyway ran some more tests at lv24 against lv22-23 pirates and the situation is bit better

 

Raitur's Siphoning Strike do around 75 damage (as said disease damage included) +12 life, 20sec, 44power

Faifhul Swing do around 45 damage +23 life, 10sec, 23power

 

now both these attacks do damage and both of them give health to caster, for me is not important if one is a lifetap and the other have another name. I see the attacks of this type as meant to make the char last longer in a fight, a thing that Faithfull swing do more efficiently.

 

for the ones that still don't see why i consider Raitur's Siphoning Strike less efficent, is mostly because the high delay and power used, you can see that a single hit from faithful swing do less damage than a single Raithur's Siphoning Strike, but as said before with almost the same power/time you can cast Faithful swing 2 times so the results will be....

 

Raitur's Siphoning Strike (20sec 44power)

75 damage

12 lifetap

 

2x Faithful Swing (20sec 46power)

45x2 = 90 damage

23x2 = 46 lifetap

 

so around 15 more damage and 34 more health

 

i know that they are on different timer so in 20 sec you can cast both 2 faithful swing and a Raitur's Siphoning Strike but we have to consider the power used.

 

Power for me is very important, my char have not the money to purchase some expensive food and i have not an enchanter in my poket, this seem to be also the condition of the average players i see, most of them use cleric food and as said enchanters are not so common.

In this situation the power management is really important, i simply can't dish out all my attacks to go oom in a minute, in a balanced group there are templates that do the damage more efficiently, what i try to do is.

MT to hold aggro and to save some clerics power using lifetaps ehm faithful swing, that do both efficent damage and some nice health back, generally i use more defensive skills like wards, charge and so on that help both to keep aggro and to save cleric power and if i have plenty of power some offensive too.

 

 

as main assist i can use more of my offensive powers, but raltur's Siphoning Strike is still a very inefficent one compared to many of our other attacks as righteous anger or grim coil and just to say

even power cleaver app1 is more efficent than it.

 

in both situations what i try is to not run out of power and to keep some just in case that i lose aggro or some adds shouw up, in these situations i must have enought power to get aggro back or to taunt the adds.

 

now here the stats of some attacks

DpS = damage per second, actually damage/(cast + recast time)

DpP = damage per power, damage/power

HpS = health per second, health gained/(cast + recast time)

HpP = health per power, health gained/power

 

raltur's Siphoning Strike (adept2)

DpS 3,49

DpP 1,7

HpS 0,56

HpP 0,27

 

faithful swing (adept1)

DpS 3,91

DpP 1,96

HpS 2

HpP 1

 

Righteous Anger (app3)

DpS 3,26

DpP 4,67

 

Grim Coil (app1)

DpS 3,9

DpP 1,95

 

Power Cleave (app1)

DpS 3,48

DpP 2,1

 

stats averaged fighting lv22-23 pirates at nek docks with me at lv24

 

as you can see, raltur's Siphoning Strike, is the less efficent special among these ones and even the DpS is quite low, only righteous anger have a noticeable worse dps but is also the most power efficent spell.

 

then the fact that raltur's Siphoning Strike is generally inferior to power cleave and grim coil at app1 show us how this skill is not a "powerfull skill improvement" that make us more uniques, just a skill to throw in when we have a lot of power and there is nothing else more damaging/efficent ready to cast.

[Bannon]

Explain to me how you get your faithful swing to give you 23 life back per use?

 

 

Mine has done 12 since the day I got it...still does 12 at level 23...

[Valam]

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Bannon9k wrote:

Explain to me how you get your faithful swing to give you 23 life back per use?

 

 

Mine has done 12 since the day I got it...still does 12 at level 23...

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my faithful swing is at adept1 and at every level i got an improvement of life gained, generally around +2/lv

 

if you have an adept1 version too and it doesn't change maybe the health gained is not dependant by level but by int or wis, it still make sense as generally when i gained a level i tried to upgrade my gears so improving even int and wis.

for reference my SK have 49 int and 53 wis

[DocGig]

Hrmm.. my faithful swings heals around 30 at level 32. It's adept 1 and has upped around +2/+3 health points per level ever since I got it. I agree, this Siphoning attack.. well it stinks unless you need to go into an all out mode and forgoe your power pool. Basically for me, I lead off with Fetid Grasp and Righteous Anger. Both deal around 130 for me instantly from the initial pull for around 15 power each. (I'm at work so can't look at exact stats). Then I let loose with Grim Coil which does around 54 points a tick for 4 ticks for 37 power. I can do all this while pulling to the group and deal out almost 500 damage before anyone else even has a chance to attack. Also, these spells have a LONG recast timer and I get to reuse them only twice per fight. Once on the initial pull, and once during the middle. Sometimes I don't bother with a second Coil if the monster won't take all 4 ticks. If it won't, then it's a waste of power.So basically, I stick with Fighting Chance (Ho starter) + faithful swing + taunt. That's my staple chain. I use Charge for the stun, and power cleave every so often as well. I completely forgo Righteous Blow... because it BLOWS. The tiny bit of damage it does over the rest of my attacks is completely meaningless with the high power cost and recast timer that are double or MORE then my other attacks. Why would I use an attack that costs twice as much power, takes twice as long to use, and provides only a 10-20% extra damage to any other single attack I have? I rather use 2 other single attacks and deal 80-90% more damage in the same time frame for the same power cost or less.Only time that any crusader should use righteous blow is for a few levels when they first get it because you don't have enough attacks to cycle in a chain. After that, it's pointless. Same thing goes for Siphoning Strike and anything else on that same timer and attack line.

[Dai'Sh]

Not sure why you have so much trouble with your Siphon but mine is great. Not knocking Faithful Swing or anything because I love it too, decent damage for little power is always good. Think of it like this though. It's been said that the main difference between the two attacks is that Siphon is DMG+Life Tap and that FS is DMG+Heal. The difference being that a "heal" doesn't take HP's from your target where as a life tap does.So according to your stats 2 FS's do about 90 dmg as opposed to the 75 dmg from Siphon. You're not factoring in the Life Tap portion though. Add in the 12 life that Siphon TAKES from the taget and gives to you and it brings your totals up to 87 dmg with Siphon. Very very close to 2 FS's and actualy costs 2 less power. So if you're not worried so much about the "healing" portion of the skill and more about power conservation/management then Siphon seems to be just as good as FS, at least according to your stats listed here. Personaly, in my experience, Siphon actualy does [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] near 100 damage most times I use it. At level 25, I use Siphon quite a bit and every time I look at the numbers that pop up over the mobs head I usualy see something like 72+11+12 which of course equals 95 total damage. Granted this is not a constant example, I've done over 100 dmg with Siphon and also done less then 70 dmg with it as well. Same goes for FS, there will always be extremes on both ends. So my point is that Siphon is not the horribly ineffecient skill you make it out to be. When accurately compared to FS it's actualy pretty close with the obvoius exception of the "heal" components. Like you I don't have a pocket chanter (and rarely get to group with one) and I still use the dried meat/filtered water combo available from the merchant. Couple that with the fact they don't share the same timer and you have a very powerful arsenal with just those two attacks alone. I'm pretty sure that if you were to throw in at least one Siphon with all the FS's you use you'd see a notciably shorter amount of time your enemy lives and not be that much worse off power wise . Just my 2cp worth

[Valam]

just to clear out, when i say raltur's siphoning strike 75 dmg, it includes the lifetap

is not

 

75base+12lifetap = 87dmg

but

63base+12lifetap = 75 dmg

Message Edited by Valamir on 01-10-2005 11:29 AM

[Hitop]

I like the spell, does great damage.  Sure I would like to see it heal for more, but I do not think the fact that it doesn't makes it a bad freebie.  When I do wanna heal myself a bit when I solo, I love the fact that it and faithful swing are on different timers.  I will cast one, then the other, wheter I start with Fighting chance or not I typically use one, then the other if I need to heal.  My way may not be the most efficient but that has been workin for me lvl21-22.

 

I must say compared to some of the others I have seen, it seems pretty comparable if not better.  I think this is one of the good parts about the "big patch" I actually like.  I know I do more damage now because of it, I solo and I can tell the difference in FG.  It does not heal for much but does great damage and hell it even heals ya for a few hp =)

 

Anyway, that's my opinion for what it's worth.

[Pheeb]

I did not pick it (Raltur Siphon...) when I dinged lvl 20 - is this something I can get/purchase later on when I level more?

[metalsab]

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Pheebau wrote:I did not pick it (Raltur Siphon...) when I dinged lvl 20 - is this something I can get/purchase later on when I level more?

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I dont think so it only comes from the little green + sign. So I'd say you probably wont get it.

[Trixst]

Must... be... given... no... challenge.

 

From everything I've read in this post, the spell works exactly as intended.  It adds a decent amount of damage and a bit of a lifetap.  It costs more power to do so but then, that's where the challenge comes from.  Do you spam all your abilities or do you actually choose which ones to use in a fight?  If all spells were made to be super efficient, we'd have a bunch of button mashers running around in EQ2.

 

I, for one, am much happier with being given choices. In some fights, I'll use more of my dmg dealing abilities while in others I won't.  Again, don't forget that we also have to work in the Combat Wheel which so far, hasn't been all that successful with all the button mashers out there.

 

Take the time to learn which of your abilities are "must spam" during combat and which ones are situational.  Even if they are damage dealing abilities, it doesn't mean that they "must" be used during every combat and as soon as they are reusable.

 

Guln

24 Dwarf Shadowknight

Mistmoore

[DocGig]

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Trixster wrote:

Must... be... given... no... challenge.

From everything I've read in this post, the spell works exactly as intended. It adds a decent amount of damage and a bit of a lifetap. It costs more power to do so but then, that's where the challenge comes from. Do you spam all your abilities or do you actually choose which ones to use in a fight? If all spells were made to be super efficient, we'd have a bunch of button mashers running around in EQ2.

I, for one, am much happier with being given choices. In some fights, I'll use more of my dmg dealing abilities while in others I won't. Again, don't forget that we also have to work in the Combat Wheel which so far, hasn't been all that successful with all the button mashers out there.

Take the time to learn which of your abilities are "must spam" during combat and which ones are situational. Even if they are damage dealing abilities, it doesn't mean that they "must" be used during every combat and as soon as they are reusable.

Guln

24 Dwarf Shadowknight

Mistmoore

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I'm not saying it's a bad power for the "flavor." I, and others, are merely pointing out from a min/max standpoint that this power is a waste to use in combat. Just like Righteous Blow. Why does the min/max standpoint matter?Because I get tired of reading threads, not in the SK forums most of the time but elsewhere, with people whining that they can't solo this or can't play that way. I ask them if they are playing as best they can and as always people are going to reply, "I know how to play, I'm not a n00b." Then I see them cite how they use les efficient powers in a fight instead of using the most efficient powers. If you are wanting to play the best you can, you min/max. You use those powers which are the most efficient and skip those that don't. It's that simple.The power is fine from an RP standpoint I guess, or if you want to throw it in there. But for half the power, half the power cost, more damage and more health I rather use my power on faithful swing then siphon.

[mrcurtlo]

 val I use both constantly I have enough power to do so and to only use one  cuz u have power issues needs to be more of a major consurn to you. My power bar regens after a fight pretty fast and in a fight I want to do as much dmg as I can to help keep agro and the point your missing is its a free extra dmg dealer so continue to use only faithful blow and ill use both and we will see who holds agro.