Questions about Bruisers as raid tanks?

Belizarius · 08-23-2006, 11:07 AM

Just looking for some honest opinions from the high level Bruisers.

My guild doesn't have a lot of experience with Brawler types as tanks on raids.

The other night, we had a go at the MOA raid trial with a Bruiser as MT, normally we have Guardians and/or Pallies. My observation was that we did very well on single/paired epics, but on bigger pulls there were problems. It seemed that the MT had trouble keeping aggro off the Priests (particularly the Shaman that was warding him) and we wiped several times in that situtation.

The Bruiser was not a wimp or a noob, he's tanked Khazad in NIzara successfully.

My understanding is that Brawlers generally have a harder time holding aggro on multi-mobs (especially multiple groups) than on single mobs, compared to other fighters, and that they usually need to switch targets to maintain aggro on groups.

I'm assuming therefore, that Brawlers can be decent tanks against single mobs, or where the adds can be locked down, but will have aggro issues if trying to tank multiple epics.

How would you rate Bruisers on raids?

- good all-purpose raid tanks?

- good special-purpose raid tanks (eg Gorenaire)?

- not so good in the MT role, but better as support tanks (puller/MA/offtank etc)?

What are a Bruiser's strengths/weaknesses as a raid MT?

thanks in advance

HomeChicken · 08-23-2006, 01:46 PM

im not a bruiser, but i have played our guilds bruiser for more than a few raids due to him slacking and not being there, but i figured id put in my 2c on this, we have had a bruiser tank many mobs in this teir for raiding, i personally wouldnt want to take a bruiser as a full time MT due to the disadvantages they have (not able to hold aoe agro worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and taking some nasty damage spikes at times) but there are definitely a few fights out there where bruiser MT is our first plan

very good situational tank, or off tank due to the ability to pick up agro and hold it well if needed

just in the long run a guardian / zerker are gonna have some edge over a bruiser for the majority of the fights / burning through junk mobs, but having a bruiser to tank a few fights in this teir sure make it a lot easier heh

deadsidedemon · 08-23-2006, 03:39 PM

There's certainly many other posts already about this, but the bottom line is that raids will typically be a lot smoother and consistant with a warrior tanking. Aggro isn't necessarily the main issue, though it is one. It has more to do with general game mechanics - the scalability of mitigation vs avoidance. Mitigation rules the day against epic mobs, so raid leaders will (rightfully) continue to use guardians and zerkers.The main concern with aggro vs multiple mobs is that a good portion of our hate comes when hitting the mobs. As long as the tank stays coordinated with the MA and your AE'ing folks don't go overboard, they should do alright.

AaronSnow · 08-23-2006, 06:20 PM

A good way to hold aggro is to not call in dps support for the first few seconds of the fight. Get off at least 1 HO, and beat on the mob(s) a bit before the support comes in.

Bruisers can be the MT, and I do it often. The biggest issue like everyone knows is the damage spikes. If you don't have healers that are really on the ball, then your grp will have a very hard time. It is essential that DOT's be removed asap, and always have up some fast heals for when you miss the avoid check a couple of times in a row.

Sydd

70 Bruiser

Quicksilver74 · 08-23-2006, 08:32 PM

Bruisers are very good raid tanks Vs. Single epics, and less effective Vs. 3 or more epics. That being said, a highly skilled bruisers with the Wisdom line (for Max AoE damage/Aggro) can still do a descent job taking groups of epic mobs... but it's hard and takes a raid who knows how to handle the possible aggro issues. Typically on a zone with many grouped encounters of epics, a bruiser's best bet for tanking is that Off-Tank role.

Bruiser tanking as also highly dependant on gear. We need the best Mitigation gear we can find. Get a bruiser a dirge and a coercer for hate, and he shoudl be able to tank most situations just fine though. I woudl encourage your guild to let him tank whenevr applicable, to get you all used to it.

Ruknor · 08-23-2006, 10:46 PM

Bruisers are excellent tanks overall. Obviously they were not created to MT, but they are very good at it nonetheless. The main issue for me has been holding aggro with grouped mobs when you have high-dps'ers doing AE's. Sometimes its impossible to get the aggro back, particularly from assassins, which is very frustrating as a bruiser. Its very possible for a bruiser to MT a raid, and yes switching targets would be necessary if certain spells aren't up that can grab group aggro. Sometimes certain spells that usually work to grab aggro back when lost (like Instill Doubt, Sucker Punch, and DPS-burst spells) don't work, which can cause problems/difficulties, but with good healers it will probably not cause a wipe--eventually, the bruiser will get the aggro back.

I don't have a problem holding aggro with priests, and if aggro is lost on a priest, I get the aggro back 99.99% of the time. I can only think of one or maybe two fights where I was unable to get the aggro back from a priest. Mages can be difficult as well, mostly when they are doing the AEs on a group, but the most difficult is definitely the assassins and rangers, due to the DPS factor. Overall though, bruisers are good at holding aggro, but this is in my experience the biggest weakness for a bruiser as an MT. I honestly cannot think of any other weakness. Yes the bursts happen on occasion but for me this has never really been an issue, but then again I always have the best healer on the server at my side. :smileywink: Also, bruisers have several different stances and abilities that can safeguard them from dying due to those unexpected bursts. If the player is a true bruiser and knows the class, and there are some good healers and other knowledgeable players in the raid, the bruiser would be a great MT. If the player just bought a 70 bruiser on the broker and waltzed into a raid, thinking they can just mash some keys and pound on a few taunt hot buttons and call it a day, prepare to wipe. For the bruiser who has levelled their own character to 70, MT'ing a raid is totally doable.

As far as strengths, definitely DPS. Not a top parser by any means, but overall bruisers have high and consistent DPS.

J4k · 08-24-2006, 01:32 AM

bruisers suck!!! PlOw

Gaige · 08-24-2006, 02:19 AM

J4kik wrote:

Dragon suckz!!! PlOw

Fixed!

I tanked just about every raid mob in the game as my bruiser, just have to have a guild that is willing to help you succeed. Which are pretty rare, now that I think about it.

ganjookie · 08-24-2006, 02:56 AM

I've been on a raid before!

wayfaerer · 08-24-2006, 04:16 AM

I tank parts of labs now and then. When I am set up to tank I don't have problems holding aggro since I am WIS spec and use a dirge and assassin in the MT group for the hate buff and murderous design. Those combined with crane flock and crane twirl means people don't get aggro off me. The main problem is being killed in 1 hit since my gear is still quite poor. Forgewrights or whatever theyre called will often 1 shot me, and it occasionally happens on groups too when I get debuffed by a ravager then one of the other mobs does a big hit on me straight after, before the debuff can be removed.

Thail · 08-24-2006, 10:53 AM

Belizarius wrote:
Just looking for some honest opinions from the high level Bruisers.

My guild doesn't have a lot of experience with Brawler types as tanks on raids.

The other night, we had a go at the MOA raid trial with a Bruiser as MT, normally we have Guardians and/or Pallies. My observation was that we did very well on single/paired epics, but on bigger pulls there were problems. It seemed that the MT had trouble keeping aggro off the Priests (particularly the Shaman that was warding him) and we wiped several times in that situtation.

The Bruiser was not a wimp or a noob, he's tanked Khazad in NIzara successfully.

My understanding is that Brawlers generally have a harder time holding aggro on multi-mobs (especially multiple groups) than on single mobs, compared to other fighters, and that they usually need to switch targets to maintain aggro on groups.

I'm assuming therefore, that Brawlers can be decent tanks against single mobs, or where the adds can be locked down, but will have aggro issues if trying to tank multiple epics.

How would you rate Bruisers on raids?

- good all-purpose raid tanks?

- good special-purpose raid tanks (eg Gorenaire)?

- not so good in the MT role, but better as support tanks (puller/MA/offtank etc)?

What are a Bruiser's strengths/weaknesses as a raid MT?

thanks in advance

Tanked Labs the other nite. So while its fresh in my memory:I had no problem holding aggro with a Dirge and Coercer in the group. I have master taunts and Rumble of course. The only people that pulled aggro are the same people that pull aggro night in night out. That being a Brigand and one of the Warlocks. There was a issue with the Defiler in my grp pulling ward aggro though. It's your job to show them not every fight needs a ward before pull (you do that by not dieing in the 1st 2 hits, heh). A way to avoide this problem also is to have some other Brawler pull them to you.

How would you rate Bruisers on raids?

- good all-purpose raid tanks?

- good special-purpose raid tanks (eg Gorenaire)?

- not so good in the MT role, but better as support tanks (puller/MA/offtank etc)?I find that tanking places like DT or HoS with trap mobs is a BIG PAIN. Our taunts don't exactly fire off quickly and you are liable to lose some key class when the traps are sprung. But we can do. We also make a hell of a secondary tank (lately this has been my job). So overall we make fine tanks with the right group and skill and armor.We rock Gore. Safe Fall DAH!I'm always pulling and secondary tank almost every raid unless I am MT. On the flip side don't have to fight very hard if I want to MT that night. MT's get burned out quickly. So if you have a smart guild you switch MT's a lot.

Quicksilver74 · 08-24-2006, 07:22 PM

Thail is right, we do rock Gorenaire.

Gorenaire and the 3 princes are the only 2 raids that you need a brawler for. Other raids are doable by anyone. I think we do very well in Halls of Seeing also, due to a higher volume of single mobs. I've tanked Deathtoll and it's usually no problem, but thats only because I know where the trap mobs are.... for someone who isn't familiar with the zone it coudl get ugly fast.

BigRed1 · 08-25-2006, 06:41 PM

I MT some in my guild but OT and play the role of MA most of the time. I saw Crabbok mention a Coercer and Dirge for hate gain, I would just like to add to that a high dps Swashie is is also great. When I am tanking I generally run with a Defiler, Fury/Warden. The other 3 slots are hate transfer. A swashie with a M2 of his hate transfer rocks, because they also have a skill like the one in crane line that turns their auto attack into an AE but they have a higher % chance than us.

Kainn ~ 70 Bruiser

Everfrost ~ "The Horde"

Been there, Seen that, Been killed by it, Came back and kicked it's [Removed for Content]!!

Message Edited by BigRed1 on 08-25-2006 07:42 AM

Gungo · 08-25-2006, 10:07 PM

Quicksilver74 wrote:

Thail is right, we do rock Gorenaire.

Gorenaire and the 3 princes are the only 2 raids that you need a brawler for. Other raids are doable by anyone. I think we do very well in Halls of Seeing also, due to a higher volume of single mobs. I've tanked Deathtoll and it's usually no problem, but thats only because I know where the trap mobs are.... for someone who isn't familiar with the zone it coudl get ugly fast.

You do not NEED a brawler for gore. Only the 3 princes require a brawler, but that can be said of any fighter. Cheldrak is much easier w a brawler. And i do exceptionally well w raids that mem wipe. I tend to stay high on agro and take agro when the mob mem wipes, switchign to def stance.

Quicksilver74 · 08-27-2006, 08:54 AM

I dunno, I say you NEED a brawler for Gorenaire due to teh fact that it makes it MUCH much easier due to safe fall. I suppose a brave guild coudl let a Brigand try tanking Gorenaire also, but I would say that anyone doing gorenaire shoudl certainly have at least one brawler to tank her.

And technically, you don't NEED a brawler to do princes either.... I mean.. I suppose it's possible to get just heal through the divine nukes.... It'd be wild, thats for sure. I'd love to hear of a guild doing princes without one of the required classes....

Pimpsxx · 08-28-2006, 04:44 PM

Sorry to say but bruisers are not the best tanks in large encounter or multiple encounter situations we are best in single target may 2 or 3 other mobs in ecnounter situations.

In situations where u have large encounters it will be tough on the brawler to hold aggro from anyone who aoe's as a main function of their class becuase we get 1 encoutner taunt and 1 single target taunt that even mastered i think is not enough hate. We rely on Taunt combos along with aoes and people knowing what they are doing in raids to get our jobs done.

Most all purpose raids we could do descent on but better if a gaurdian goes in.

We are awesome MA's and can be awseome offtanks if we are palced with right grp for buffs/resist.

HomeChicken ''qoute'' im not a bruiser, but i have played our guilds bruiser for more than a few raids due to him slacking and not being there''end qoute''

1st of all thats against rules and second of all you dont play him regulary enough to know the skills or how to paly bruiser right. like starting with certain skills is bad and when to use our knockout, so please dont go posting on a subject u dont understand and if u would scroll down in the bruiser or monk boards ud see multiple things covering this topic so please look around before you post in unfammilar territory

~edited for rewording~

Message Edited by Pimpsxx on 08-28-2006 07:12 AM

Flotten · 08-28-2006, 05:09 PM

HomeChicken wrote:

im not a bruiser, but i have played our guilds bruiser for more than a few raids due to him slacking and not being there,

Thats weird, you can get banned for sharing someone elses account.

Bad · 08-28-2006, 10:56 PM

Quicksilver74 wrote:

I dunno, I say you NEED a brawler for Gorenaire due to teh fact that it makes it MUCH much easier due to safe fall.

Have you done gore lately? A while ago they changed the teleport so that it had a mem wipe too. Not much need to have a brawler anymore.

And btw, it was doable with a guardian tanking it before the change.

08-23-2006, 01:46 PM	#2
HomeChicken Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 259	im not a bruiser, but i have played our guilds bruiser for more than a few raids due to him slacking and not being there, but i figured id put in my 2c on this, we have had a bruiser tank many mobs in this teir for raiding, i personally wouldnt want to take a bruiser as a full time MT due to the disadvantages they have (not able to hold aoe agro worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and taking some nasty damage spikes at times) but there are definitely a few fights out there where bruiser MT is our first plan very good situational tank, or off tank due to the ability to pick up agro and hold it well if needed just in the long run a guardian / zerker are gonna have some edge over a bruiser for the majority of the fights / burning through junk mobs, but having a bruiser to tank a few fights in this teir sure make it a lot easier heh __________________

08-23-2006, 03:39 PM	#3
deadsidedemon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 93	There's certainly many other posts already about this, but the bottom line is that raids will typically be a lot smoother and consistant with a warrior tanking. Aggro isn't necessarily the main issue, though it is one. It has more to do with general game mechanics - the scalability of mitigation vs avoidance. Mitigation rules the day against epic mobs, so raid leaders will (rightfully) continue to use guardians and zerkers.The main concern with aggro vs multiple mobs is that a good portion of our hate comes when hitting the mobs. As long as the tank stays coordinated with the MA and your AE'ing folks don't go overboard, they should do alright. __________________ Gemini.80 Illusionist Bane.Blackburrow

08-24-2006, 01:32 AM	#7
J4k Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	bruisers suck!!! PlOw __________________

08-24-2006, 02:19 AM	#8
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	J4kik wrote: Dragon suckz!!! PlOw Fixed! I tanked just about every raid mob in the game as my bruiser, just have to have a guild that is willing to help you succeed. Which are pretty rare, now that I think about it. __________________

08-24-2006, 02:56 AM	#9
ganjookie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,201	I've been on a raid before! __________________

08-23-2006, 11:07 AM	#1
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	Just looking for some honest opinions from the high level Bruisers. My guild doesn't have a lot of experience with Brawler types as tanks on raids. The other night, we had a go at the MOA raid trial with a Bruiser as MT, normally we have Guardians and/or Pallies. My observation was that we did very well on single/paired epics, but on bigger pulls there were problems. It seemed that the MT had trouble keeping aggro off the Priests (particularly the Shaman that was warding him) and we wiped several times in that situtation. The Bruiser was not a wimp or a noob, he's tanked Khazad in NIzara successfully. My understanding is that Brawlers generally have a harder time holding aggro on multi-mobs (especially multiple groups) than on single mobs, compared to other fighters, and that they usually need to switch targets to maintain aggro on groups. I'm assuming therefore, that Brawlers can be decent tanks against single mobs, or where the adds can be locked down, but will have aggro issues if trying to tank multiple epics. How would you rate Bruisers on raids? - good all-purpose raid tanks? - good special-purpose raid tanks (eg Gorenaire)? - not so good in the MT role, but better as support tanks (puller/MA/offtank etc)? What are a Bruiser's strengths/weaknesses as a raid MT? thanks in advance

08-23-2006, 06:20 PM	#4
AaronSnow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	A good way to hold aggro is to not call in dps support for the first few seconds of the fight. Get off at least 1 HO, and beat on the mob(s) a bit before the support comes in. Bruisers can be the MT, and I do it often. The biggest issue like everyone knows is the damage spikes. If you don't have healers that are really on the ball, then your grp will have a very hard time. It is essential that DOT's be removed asap, and always have up some fast heals for when you miss the avoid check a couple of times in a row. Sydd 70 Bruiser

08-23-2006, 08:32 PM	#5
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	Bruisers are very good raid tanks Vs. Single epics, and less effective Vs. 3 or more epics. That being said, a highly skilled bruisers with the Wisdom line (for Max AoE damage/Aggro) can still do a descent job taking groups of epic mobs... but it's hard and takes a raid who knows how to handle the possible aggro issues. Typically on a zone with many grouped encounters of epics, a bruiser's best bet for tanking is that Off-Tank role. Bruiser tanking as also highly dependant on gear. We need the best Mitigation gear we can find. Get a bruiser a dirge and a coercer for hate, and he shoudl be able to tank most situations just fine though. I woudl encourage your guild to let him tank whenevr applicable, to get you all used to it.

08-23-2006, 10:46 PM	#6
Ruknor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	Bruisers are excellent tanks overall. Obviously they were not created to MT, but they are very good at it nonetheless. The main issue for me has been holding aggro with grouped mobs when you have high-dps'ers doing AE's. Sometimes its impossible to get the aggro back, particularly from assassins, which is very frustrating as a bruiser. Its very possible for a bruiser to MT a raid, and yes switching targets would be necessary if certain spells aren't up that can grab group aggro. Sometimes certain spells that usually work to grab aggro back when lost (like Instill Doubt, Sucker Punch, and DPS-burst spells) don't work, which can cause problems/difficulties, but with good healers it will probably not cause a wipe--eventually, the bruiser will get the aggro back. I don't have a problem holding aggro with priests, and if aggro is lost on a priest, I get the aggro back 99.99% of the time. I can only think of one or maybe two fights where I was unable to get the aggro back from a priest. Mages can be difficult as well, mostly when they are doing the AEs on a group, but the most difficult is definitely the assassins and rangers, due to the DPS factor. Overall though, bruisers are good at holding aggro, but this is in my experience the biggest weakness for a bruiser as an MT. I honestly cannot think of any other weakness. Yes the bursts happen on occasion but for me this has never really been an issue, but then again I always have the best healer on the server at my side. :smileywink: Also, bruisers have several different stances and abilities that can safeguard them from dying due to those unexpected bursts. If the player is a true bruiser and knows the class, and there are some good healers and other knowledgeable players in the raid, the bruiser would be a great MT. If the player just bought a 70 bruiser on the broker and waltzed into a raid, thinking they can just mash some keys and pound on a few taunt hot buttons and call it a day, prepare to wipe. For the bruiser who has levelled their own character to 70, MT'ing a raid is totally doable. As far as strengths, definitely DPS. Not a top parser by any means, but overall bruisers have high and consistent DPS.

08-24-2006, 04:16 AM	#10
wayfaerer Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 274	I tank parts of labs now and then. When I am set up to tank I don't have problems holding aggro since I am WIS spec and use a dirge and assassin in the MT group for the hate buff and murderous design. Those combined with crane flock and crane twirl means people don't get aggro off me. The main problem is being killed in 1 hit since my gear is still quite poor. Forgewrights or whatever theyre called will often 1 shot me, and it occasionally happens on groups too when I get debuffed by a ravager then one of the other mobs does a big hit on me straight after, before the debuff can be removed. __________________ Phia, Dark Elf Coercer, Nagafen Zizz, Dark Elf Bruiser, Nagafen -formerly- Phia, Mage, Rift/Briarcliff Phia, Sorcerer, Aion/Nezekan Khrin, Archmage, WAR/Darklands Avert, Blood Mage, VG/Tharridon Khrin, Undead Priest, WoW/Blackrock Phia, Abyss Walker, L2/Lionna Amon, Confessor, SB/Ardan Sset, Iksar Monk, EQ1/Tholuxe Paells Mental, Dark Elf Enchanter, EQ1/Sullon Zek Zizz, Dark Elf Enchanter, EQ1/Tallon Zek

08-24-2006, 10:53 AM	#11
Thail Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 181	Belizarius wrote: Just looking for some honest opinions from the high level Bruisers. My guild doesn't have a lot of experience with Brawler types as tanks on raids. The other night, we had a go at the MOA raid trial with a Bruiser as MT, normally we have Guardians and/or Pallies. My observation was that we did very well on single/paired epics, but on bigger pulls there were problems. It seemed that the MT had trouble keeping aggro off the Priests (particularly the Shaman that was warding him) and we wiped several times in that situtation. The Bruiser was not a wimp or a noob, he's tanked Khazad in NIzara successfully. My understanding is that Brawlers generally have a harder time holding aggro on multi-mobs (especially multiple groups) than on single mobs, compared to other fighters, and that they usually need to switch targets to maintain aggro on groups. I'm assuming therefore, that Brawlers can be decent tanks against single mobs, or where the adds can be locked down, but will have aggro issues if trying to tank multiple epics. How would you rate Bruisers on raids? - good all-purpose raid tanks? - good special-purpose raid tanks (eg Gorenaire)? - not so good in the MT role, but better as support tanks (puller/MA/offtank etc)? What are a Bruiser's strengths/weaknesses as a raid MT? thanks in advance Tanked Labs the other nite. So while its fresh in my memory:I had no problem holding aggro with a Dirge and Coercer in the group. I have master taunts and Rumble of course. The only people that pulled aggro are the same people that pull aggro night in night out. That being a Brigand and one of the Warlocks. There was a issue with the Defiler in my grp pulling ward aggro though. It's your job to show them not every fight needs a ward before pull (you do that by not dieing in the 1st 2 hits, heh). A way to avoide this problem also is to have some other Brawler pull them to you. How would you rate Bruisers on raids? - good all-purpose raid tanks? - good special-purpose raid tanks (eg Gorenaire)? - not so good in the MT role, but better as support tanks (puller/MA/offtank etc)?I find that tanking places like DT or HoS with trap mobs is a BIG PAIN. Our taunts don't exactly fire off quickly and you are liable to lose some key class when the traps are sprung. But we can do. We also make a hell of a secondary tank (lately this has been my job). So overall we make fine tanks with the right group and skill and armor.We rock Gore. Safe Fall DAH!I'm always pulling and secondary tank almost every raid unless I am MT. On the flip side don't have to fight very hard if I want to MT that night. MT's get burned out quickly. So if you have a smart guild you switch MT's a lot. __________________

08-24-2006, 07:22 PM	#12
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	Thail is right, we do rock Gorenaire. Gorenaire and the 3 princes are the only 2 raids that you need a brawler for. Other raids are doable by anyone. I think we do very well in Halls of Seeing also, due to a higher volume of single mobs. I've tanked Deathtoll and it's usually no problem, but thats only because I know where the trap mobs are.... for someone who isn't familiar with the zone it coudl get ugly fast.

08-25-2006, 06:41 PM	#13
BigRed1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56	I MT some in my guild but OT and play the role of MA most of the time. I saw Crabbok mention a Coercer and Dirge for hate gain, I would just like to add to that a high dps Swashie is is also great. When I am tanking I generally run with a Defiler, Fury/Warden. The other 3 slots are hate transfer. A swashie with a M2 of his hate transfer rocks, because they also have a skill like the one in crane line that turns their auto attack into an AE but they have a higher % chance than us. Kainn ~ 70 Bruiser Everfrost ~ "The Horde" Been there, Seen that, Been killed by it, Came back and kicked it's [Removed for Content]!! Message Edited by BigRed1 on 08-25-2006 07:42 AM __________________

08-25-2006, 10:07 PM	#14
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	Quicksilver74 wrote: Thail is right, we do rock Gorenaire. Gorenaire and the 3 princes are the only 2 raids that you need a brawler for. Other raids are doable by anyone. I think we do very well in Halls of Seeing also, due to a higher volume of single mobs. I've tanked Deathtoll and it's usually no problem, but thats only because I know where the trap mobs are.... for someone who isn't familiar with the zone it coudl get ugly fast. You do not NEED a brawler for gore. Only the 3 princes require a brawler, but that can be said of any fighter. Cheldrak is much easier w a brawler. And i do exceptionally well w raids that mem wipe. I tend to stay high on agro and take agro when the mob mem wipes, switchign to def stance.

08-27-2006, 08:54 AM	#15
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	I dunno, I say you NEED a brawler for Gorenaire due to teh fact that it makes it MUCH much easier due to safe fall. I suppose a brave guild coudl let a Brigand try tanking Gorenaire also, but I would say that anyone doing gorenaire shoudl certainly have at least one brawler to tank her. And technically, you don't NEED a brawler to do princes either.... I mean.. I suppose it's possible to get just heal through the divine nukes.... It'd be wild, thats for sure. I'd love to hear of a guild doing princes without one of the required classes....

08-28-2006, 04:44 PM	#16
Pimpsxx Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	Sorry to say but bruisers are not the best tanks in large encounter or multiple encounter situations we are best in single target may 2 or 3 other mobs in ecnounter situations. In situations where u have large encounters it will be tough on the brawler to hold aggro from anyone who aoe's as a main function of their class becuase we get 1 encoutner taunt and 1 single target taunt that even mastered i think is not enough hate. We rely on Taunt combos along with aoes and people knowing what they are doing in raids to get our jobs done. Most all purpose raids we could do descent on but better if a gaurdian goes in. We are awesome MA's and can be awseome offtanks if we are palced with right grp for buffs/resist. HomeChicken ''qoute'' im not a bruiser, but i have played our guilds bruiser for more than a few raids due to him slacking and not being there''end qoute'' 1st of all thats against rules and second of all you dont play him regulary enough to know the skills or how to paly bruiser right. like starting with certain skills is bad and when to use our knockout, so please dont go posting on a subject u dont understand and if u would scroll down in the bruiser or monk boards ud see multiple things covering this topic so please look around before you post in unfammilar territory ~edited for rewording~ Message Edited by Pimpsxx on 08-28-2006 07:12 AM

08-28-2006, 05:09 PM	#17
Flotten Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 68	HomeChicken wrote: im not a bruiser, but i have played our guilds bruiser for more than a few raids due to him slacking and not being there, Thats weird, you can get banned for sharing someone elses account.

08-28-2006, 10:56 PM	#18
Bad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Quicksilver74 wrote: I dunno, I say you NEED a brawler for Gorenaire due to teh fact that it makes it MUCH much easier due to safe fall. Have you done gore lately? A while ago they changed the teleport so that it had a mem wipe too. Not much need to have a brawler anymore. And btw, it was doable with a guardian tanking it before the change.