Avoidance Buffs: overlooked?

[Zedarius]

Is it just me, or is the benefit of the avoidance buffs from a brawler greatly overlooked by the majority of people? I was on a raid the other night, and the main tank chose to have another crusader in the group for something like 5% mitigation, rather than a ~50% chance to use my ~70% avoidance if he were to have taken a hit. Mathematically, that just didn't seem to make sense. Has anybody figured out a formula where you can plug in Tank X's avoidance [x], your avoidance [y], and the %-chance that your avoidance buff will trigger [z] to figure out the theoretical avoidance of Tank X? I tried to figure it out, but I just ended up getting myself more confused =P I will say that a decently well-respected MT plate tank in a raiding guild said he extensively parsed having a crusader or a brawler in the main tank group, and discovered that the small mitigation boost is better than the avoidance buff. Anybody want to shed light on the issue or offer their own findings? I'm curious as to what others think

[Code2501]

The actual benefit of that buff for the MT varies depending on the MT's avoidance... Without going into the detailed math, because the check is made only if the MT's avoidance fails the amount you actually help them avoid diminishes as their avoidance gets better.

The scale works out to something like :

MT avoidance 30%  / your avoidance 70% = buffed avoidance equivalent 24.5%

MT avoidance 50% / your avoidance 70% = buffed avoidance equivalent 17.5%

MT avoidance 70% / your avoidance 70% = buffed avoidance equivalent 10.5%

In a standard raid situation 5% mitigation is worth more (damage reduction wise) than 10% avoidance due to avoidance being downgraded vs epics, maybe even better than 15% avoidance. So if the MT has a high avoidance rating to start with then they might be better off with 5% mitigation over the avoidance buff.

 

Just wanted to add, it does give them the 360 degree benefit of our avoidance though, so the benefit would be considerably better if the MT is getting flanked consistently.

Message Edited by Code2501 on 07-23-2006 07:00 PM

[Pauleh]

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Code2501 wrote:

The actual benefit of that buff for the MT varies depending on the MT's avoidance... Without going into the detailed math, because the check is made only if the MT's avoidance fails the amount you actually help them avoid diminishes as their avoidance gets better.

The scale works out to something like :

MT avoidance 30%  / your avoidance 70% = buffed avoidance equivalent 24.5%

MT avoidance 50% / your avoidance 70% = buffed avoidance equivalent 17.5%

MT avoidance 70% / your avoidance 70% = buffed avoidance equivalent 10.5%

In a standard raid situation 5% mitigation is worth more (damage reduction wise) than 10% avoidance due to avoidance being downgraded vs epics, maybe even better than 15% avoidance. So if the MT has a high avoidance rating to start with then they might be better off with 5% mitigation over the avoidance buff.

 

Just wanted to add, it does give them the 360 degree benefit of our avoidance though, so the benefit would be considerably better if the MT is getting flanked consistently.

Message Edited by Code2501 on 07-23-2006 07:00 PM

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If it was due to my level I dont know but level 25 with buffs from group my avoidance was 65% and I rarely got hit by the epic x3 mob we were on, when I did it was hard but it was rare that it hit, is this due to my level or to the avoidance, i.e if its the same higher level will the mob still miss me.

[Quicksilver74]

You are overlooking something.... your avoidance is altered in this scenario.   You have 3 avoidance skills, Defense, Deflection, and Parry.   Shake Off only takes your Deflection and Parry into consideration.  Hit your persona window and mouseover your avoidance, and you will see %'s for Parry and Deflect.   Add those up and thats the % of actually avoiding an attack for the other tank. 

 

  My deflect is usually about 40-45% and parry is about 15% or so.   Add them up and I may be at 60%... (NOTE, this is NOT my overall avoidance, but my parry and deflection %'s added).  Now take shake off.... 54% chance to avoid for him right?  I think thats what it is... don't have game window open atm.  so theres a 54% chance that I will be able to parry or deflect for him, and do it at a 60% chance success rating.  this means that when the tank WOULD get hit...  you have a 32.4% chance of Parrying or Deflecting the attack...  (Vs. a lvl 70 mob). 

 

   Keep in mind that you must be within 5 meters of teh tank for this to actually work.  Also, the reason defense doesn't matter, is because you cannot "Dodge" an attack intended for someone else, but you can parry it or deflect it.  Imagine me throwing a punch at yoru friend, and you jump out of the way....   your friend still gets hit. 

[Gungo]

Also the pally not only provides a mitgation buff but he also has his version of an avodi buff with a parry modifier. A pally also adds wisdom/str to the mt group and adds offensive procs. He is also able to stay in defensive w/o a large hit to his DPS. Since he does alot of spell damage.  Also the paladin has heals and wards that help the MT group. Certain spell such as group heal and one of there heals can only be used in group. In total they offer more then the avoid buff. Where a bruiser adds more in offtank/DPs group.

[Pins]

Hits will go through their base avoidance, then their Block(if they have that), then their Parry, then their Deflection(again if they have that), then they have the chance for you to avoid for them, if it works it goes through your Base, Block, Parry, then Deflection.So let's say you put it on a Guardian with 47.6% base, 10.1% block, 30% Parry, and you have 47.8% base, 30% Parry, and 47.7% deflection. A mob would swing, then the guardian would have a 47.6% chance to avoid the attack, then only a 5.29% chance to block, followed by a 14.1% chance to parry the attack, so 33% of the attacks would get through for you to have a chance to avoid. You would then have only a 17.8% chance to use your avoidance on the attacks, which would then go through your normal avoidance checks. Meaning you'd dodge 8.5% of attacks for him, parry 2.7% of attacks, and deflect 3.1% of attacks, giving him a bonus of 14.3% avoidance to his already 67.0% avoidance making him have effectively 81.3% avoidance.I am pretty sure this is how it works anyway, it could be that the avoidance check for you is done first, then it goes through his avoidance after yours.