Raid Tanking Bruisers - Best AA line setup ?

Ma · 05-23-2006, 04:12 AM

Been doing the various dps setups and have been having a blast - but i have spoke with alot of my bruisers on kithicor and they get chosen to tank quite a bit - even more so than some plate tanks we have. currently for dps been doing str/sta/int 448 or sta/wis/int 448 depending the time. for the most part i used fists and recently i picked up the staff of the flapping wing so im trying something different. Now i have almost completed all claymore quest and am looking to finish off my tank setup with the best AA line possible - havent seen to much about this so would like to hear from various raid tank bruisers and tell me what you think. I obviously see the aa lines that have the + defense parry and deflection but some have said that even maxed - they are not too relative or not going to help out too much - your input plz SMILEY

Lian - 70 Gnome Bruiser ( AKA midget with muscles )

Jibo - 70 Dark Elf Assassin

Server: Kithicor

MutantCrock1905 · 05-23-2006, 06:13 PM

Bruisers aren't raid tanks. Our avoidance isnt all what its cracked up to be. Guards can get just under 70% avoidance from what i have seen with 80+ % mitigation. We're sadly nobodies now adays. I would suggest just working on your mitigation for s'n'g as a personal goal only. Its the truth, unfortunately..

Purrfect Technique

Crushbone

TheSummoned · 05-23-2006, 06:33 PM

Purrfect's whine set aside... Bruisers can make good raid tanks, but you have to have the raid ready for it. We aquire a different approach than plate tanks. For the best possible (imo) tanking setup I'd go with STA 8488 and INT 4448 with 1 point to spare (I'd place it in crits, but it's totally up to you). The 8 in mantis bolt will help you proc roughhousing more times = more aggro = more DPS for the raid. This may change with the next expansion when we'll get subclass specific AAs, but untill then... Oh, and bruisers can reach close to 5k mit with the group and 6k+ with our mit for hp buff.

Quicksilver74 · 05-23-2006, 06:35 PM

that is NOT the truth. NOT the truth. the truth is that plate tanks are gerenally better, but not always. Tanking now is alot more situational. the 3 princes is a perfect example of a fight where you need all 3 tanks types, crusader, warrior and brawler. It also happens to be a very fun fight as well.

We are certainly capable of tanking most T7 content with no problem.... Gorenaire also is great for brawlers to tank due to her teleport.... we can just FD and give her to the next tank in line, plus our safe fall makes it easy for us to get back to the raid no problem. Tarinax is also a tankable mob from a brawler standpoint.... you just need a good group for mitigation. I have tanked Tarinax before so yes it's possible. Hard, but possible. I know we aren't everyone's 1st choice, but with alot more encounters calling for multiple tanks, it's nice to be able to get some tanking time in nowadays.

For AA's, I can reccomend the STA line's Deflection bonus, because you get at least 4 AA's into STA also, so that means more HP. the raw HP from the Wisdom line is also a nice bonus, (4% total at rank SMILEY .

If you want crits, you mite as well max out Parry also, and possibly the end ability from the INT line, (Though if your below 30% health you are likely to die soon anyway.)

I have heard great things about the STR line's 5% riposte. the fact that it does the Riposte check before your base avoidance makes it very nice, but yuou must be unarmed for it to work. If you don't have uber weapons you might try the STR line. for DPS AND for tanking.

MakhailSamma · 05-23-2006, 08:08 PM

Quicksilver74 wrote:

that is NOT the truth.   NOT the truth. the truth is that plate tanks are gerenally better, but not always.   Tanking now is alot more situational. the 3 princes is a perfect example of a fight where you need all 3 tanks types, crusader, warrior and brawler. It also happens to be a very fun fight as well.

    We are certainly capable of tanking most T7 content with no problem.... Gorenaire also is great for brawlers to tank due to her teleport.... we can just FD and give her to the next tank in line, plus our safe fall makes it easy for us to get back to the raid no problem.    Tarinax is also a tankable mob from a brawler standpoint....   you just need a good group for mitigation.    I have tanked Tarinax before so yes it's possible. Hard, but possible. I know we aren't everyone's 1st choice, but with alot more encounters calling for multiple tanks, it's nice to be able to get some tanking time in nowadays.

   For AA's, I can reccomend the STA line's Deflection bonus, because you get at least 4 AA's into STA also, so that means more HP. the raw HP from the Wisdom line is also a nice bonus, (4% total at rank .

If you want crits, you mite as well max out Parry also, and possibly the end ability from the INT line, (Though if your below 30% health you are likely to die soon anyway.)

I have heard great things about the STR line's 5% riposte.   the fact that it does the Riposte check before your base avoidance makes it very nice, but yuou must be unarmed for it to work.   If you don't have uber weapons you might try the STR line. for DPS AND for tanking.

Tanked Goenaire last night with no problem at all.

Was sitting at about 77% avoidance and over 6k mitigation (for 3 minutes SMILEY ).

We most assuradely CAN tank raid mobs, though in MOST situations, a Guardian is going to do it better.

Quicksilver74 · 05-24-2006, 02:36 AM

MakhailSammael wrote:
We most assuradely CAN tank raid mobs, though in MOST situations, a Guardian is going to do it better.

Yes, this is usually true. Fine with me. I'm happy on those occasions when we get to tank though, it's challenging to be able to do it.

Teaen Arcarius · 05-24-2006, 09:31 PM

No tanking Bruisers are going with the agility AA line? I tank most of the time (in groups, I don't raid) and I was planning on going STA 4/4/4/8 and AGI 4/4/4/8/8 mainly for the deflection and defense bonuses, but also figuring that STA = hp and AGI = avoidance. It kind of bothers me that the 2nd and 3rd skills in the AGI line are a waste in my opinion, but I thought that the defense skill would be better to raise than the parry skill in the INT line because parry is frontal only, correct?

Quicksilver74 · 05-24-2006, 09:35 PM

The best bonus for raising delfection and Parry rather than Defense, is that when you use your avoidance buff on someone else, delfection and parry actually matter, where defense doesn't. IE you can Parry an attack for someone, and you can Deflect for someone, but you can't dodge an attack for someone else.....

Also Parry gives you more chance to Riposte.... = another attack.

Darthor · 05-24-2006, 09:45 PM

Would someone please elaborate how the 5% from the STR line is added to avoidance? Does it affect the cap, or it it calculated completely separately? How does it display on the character screen, does it just add % to parry or what? Very curious how it is calculated (if it's applied before any other avoidance, wouldn't that make it's effectively higher than adding 5% elsewhere?)

Message Edited by Darthornn on 05-24-2006 10:46 AM

Gungo · 05-25-2006, 12:47 AM

MutantCrock1905 wrote:

Bruisers aren't raid tanks. Our avoidance isnt all what its cracked up to be. Guards can get just under 70% avoidance from what i have seen with 80+ % mitigation. We're sadly nobodies now adays. I would suggest just working on your mitigation for s'n'g as a personal goal only. Its the truth, unfortunately..

Purrfect Technique

Crushbone

Purrfect this is wrong now in KoS many raids can actually benefit from a good bruiser tank. SPOILERS BELOW

Want to trivilize gorenaire. She has a direct MT teleport randomly. As well as a ton of adds. Use 1-2 brawlers to tank gorenaire when the brawler gets ported away he fakes drops agro and the other brawler or tank picks up agro. Brawler then stands up a moment later runs back to raid and resumes tanking until he gets ported again. This keeps gore stationaire and removes that major issue. The guard MT cna be the MA for adds and control adds. There are 2 ways to handle them.

Halls of seeing is done alot easier with a brawler settign off traps and not trianing raid.

3 princes is almost impossible w/o a bruiser

In general raids are alot easier w a bruiser guard and paladin depending on the raid mob and the type of aoe.

If the mob mem wipes the MT a paladin is a supreme tank for it. Depending.

So no a brawler is alot better for raids.

Gungo · 05-25-2006, 01:12 AM

some may or may not agree, imho the best tank setup is.

4/4/8 Sta and 4/8/8/5/8 Int

Ok reasoning below.

4 sta more hp, 4 sta debuff nice pull skill, 8 mantis bolt more roughhouseing procs, more dps

4 int not great but better proc dam, 8 eagle spin great stun on heroics and an extra 500dam atk may be nerfed in lu24, 8 crits huge dps improvement may be nerfed in lu24, 5 parry hardest defensive skill to cap for brawler more riposte, final int ability there is countless times tanking i have been below 30% where this skill is a godsend. Try it out for yourself. For raids this will help curb the 2 shot problem a bit. Skills are effectivly soft capped at 420 for defense parry and deflection. defense is generally well above the cap. The effect of skill raised above 420 is unknown since displayed versus lvl 70 mobs shows no improvement. Improvemnt vs 74 mobs is unknown. 420 deflection is obtainable with raid gear (mostly for monks). Parry is nearly impossible to cap, Although theoretically possible.

After the nerf to the int line i plan to go. 4/4/4/4/8 Int and 4/4/5/4/8 Wis. Reason is because it gives me a tremndous mix of extreme dps and extreme tanking. Just in case for wondering in raids w multi mobs you cna hit 2k+ dps eveyr 5 min using the final Wis line ability. And there are some very powerful staves in Halls fo seeing several 106+ DR staves and a 109+Dr staff. To bad we can't use hammers w the wis line because there is an insane (106+DR) Encounter aoe based taunt procing 2 handed hammer.

Quicksilver74 · 05-25-2006, 02:29 AM

Darthornn wrote:
Would someone please elaborate how the 5% from the STR line is added to avoidance? Does it affect the cap, or it it calculated completely separately? How does it display on the character screen, does it just add % to parry or what? Very curious how it is calculated (if it's applied before any other avoidance, wouldn't that make it's effectively higher than adding 5% elsewhere?)

Message Edited by Darthornn on 05-24-2006 10:46 AM

Yes, it is applied before your avoidance check. It is an outright chance to riposte/parry any attack right away, and if that fails, then it goes for your normal avoidance check. Combine this with the temp buff from the gloves from Lyceum, which gives a 2% chance to block (for only 30 seconds now =( ...) and you will have a very noticable difference when avoiding attacks.

05-23-2006, 04:12 AM	#1
Ma Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8	Been doing the various dps setups and have been having a blast - but i have spoke with alot of my bruisers on kithicor and they get chosen to tank quite a bit - even more so than some plate tanks we have. currently for dps been doing str/sta/int 448 or sta/wis/int 448 depending the time. for the most part i used fists and recently i picked up the staff of the flapping wing so im trying something different. Now i have almost completed all claymore quest and am looking to finish off my tank setup with the best AA line possible - havent seen to much about this so would like to hear from various raid tank bruisers and tell me what you think. I obviously see the aa lines that have the + defense parry and deflection but some have said that even maxed - they are not too relative or not going to help out too much - your input plz Lian - 70 Gnome Bruiser ( AKA midget with muscles ) Jibo - 70 Dark Elf Assassin Server: Kithicor

05-23-2006, 06:33 PM	#3
TheSummoned Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 713	Purrfect's whine set aside... Bruisers can make good raid tanks, but you have to have the raid ready for it. We aquire a different approach than plate tanks. For the best possible (imo) tanking setup I'd go with STA 8488 and INT 4448 with 1 point to spare (I'd place it in crits, but it's totally up to you). The 8 in mantis bolt will help you proc roughhousing more times = more aggro = more DPS for the raid. This may change with the next expansion when we'll get subclass specific AAs, but untill then... Oh, and bruisers can reach close to 5k mit with the group and 6k+ with our mit for hp buff. __________________ __________________________ Yukia, Darathar's bruiser - Retired Ajeco, 70 Splitpaw bruiser - Retired Ezahia, dirge of Validus, Splitpaw

05-23-2006, 06:35 PM	#4
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	that is NOT the truth. NOT the truth. the truth is that plate tanks are gerenally better, but not always. Tanking now is alot more situational. the 3 princes is a perfect example of a fight where you need all 3 tanks types, crusader, warrior and brawler. It also happens to be a very fun fight as well. We are certainly capable of tanking most T7 content with no problem.... Gorenaire also is great for brawlers to tank due to her teleport.... we can just FD and give her to the next tank in line, plus our safe fall makes it easy for us to get back to the raid no problem. Tarinax is also a tankable mob from a brawler standpoint.... you just need a good group for mitigation. I have tanked Tarinax before so yes it's possible. Hard, but possible. I know we aren't everyone's 1st choice, but with alot more encounters calling for multiple tanks, it's nice to be able to get some tanking time in nowadays. For AA's, I can reccomend the STA line's Deflection bonus, because you get at least 4 AA's into STA also, so that means more HP. the raw HP from the Wisdom line is also a nice bonus, (4% total at rank . If you want crits, you mite as well max out Parry also, and possibly the end ability from the INT line, (Though if your below 30% health you are likely to die soon anyway.) I have heard great things about the STR line's 5% riposte. the fact that it does the Riposte check before your base avoidance makes it very nice, but yuou must be unarmed for it to work. If you don't have uber weapons you might try the STR line. for DPS AND for tanking.

05-23-2006, 08:08 PM	#5
MakhailSamma General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 349	Quicksilver74 wrote: that is NOT the truth. NOT the truth. the truth is that plate tanks are gerenally better, but not always. Tanking now is alot more situational. the 3 princes is a perfect example of a fight where you need all 3 tanks types, crusader, warrior and brawler. It also happens to be a very fun fight as well. We are certainly capable of tanking most T7 content with no problem.... Gorenaire also is great for brawlers to tank due to her teleport.... we can just FD and give her to the next tank in line, plus our safe fall makes it easy for us to get back to the raid no problem. Tarinax is also a tankable mob from a brawler standpoint.... you just need a good group for mitigation. I have tanked Tarinax before so yes it's possible. Hard, but possible. I know we aren't everyone's 1st choice, but with alot more encounters calling for multiple tanks, it's nice to be able to get some tanking time in nowadays. For AA's, I can reccomend the STA line's Deflection bonus, because you get at least 4 AA's into STA also, so that means more HP. the raw HP from the Wisdom line is also a nice bonus, (4% total at rank . If you want crits, you mite as well max out Parry also, and possibly the end ability from the INT line, (Though if your below 30% health you are likely to die soon anyway.) I have heard great things about the STR line's 5% riposte. the fact that it does the Riposte check before your base avoidance makes it very nice, but yuou must be unarmed for it to work. If you don't have uber weapons you might try the STR line. for DPS AND for tanking. Tanked Goenaire last night with no problem at all. Was sitting at about 77% avoidance and over 6k mitigation (for 3 minutes ). We most assuradely CAN tank raid mobs, though in MOST situations, a Guardian is going to do it better. __________________

05-24-2006, 02:36 AM	#6
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	MakhailSammael wrote: We most assuradely CAN tank raid mobs, though in MOST situations, a Guardian is going to do it better. Yes, this is usually true. Fine with me. I'm happy on those occasions when we get to tank though, it's challenging to be able to do it.

05-23-2006, 06:13 PM	#2
MutantCrock1905 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 63	Bruisers aren't raid tanks. Our avoidance isnt all what its cracked up to be. Guards can get just under 70% avoidance from what i have seen with 80+ % mitigation. We're sadly nobodies now adays. I would suggest just working on your mitigation for s'n'g as a personal goal only. Its the truth, unfortunately.. Purrfect Technique Crushbone

05-24-2006, 09:31 PM	#7
Teaen Arcarius Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	No tanking Bruisers are going with the agility AA line? I tank most of the time (in groups, I don't raid) and I was planning on going STA 4/4/4/8 and AGI 4/4/4/8/8 mainly for the deflection and defense bonuses, but also figuring that STA = hp and AGI = avoidance. It kind of bothers me that the 2nd and 3rd skills in the AGI line are a waste in my opinion, but I thought that the defense skill would be better to raise than the parry skill in the INT line because parry is frontal only, correct?

05-24-2006, 09:35 PM	#8
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	The best bonus for raising delfection and Parry rather than Defense, is that when you use your avoidance buff on someone else, delfection and parry actually matter, where defense doesn't. IE you can Parry an attack for someone, and you can Deflect for someone, but you can't dodge an attack for someone else..... Also Parry gives you more chance to Riposte.... = another attack.

05-24-2006, 09:45 PM	#9
Darthor General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 45	Would someone please elaborate how the 5% from the STR line is added to avoidance? Does it affect the cap, or it it calculated completely separately? How does it display on the character screen, does it just add % to parry or what? Very curious how it is calculated (if it's applied before any other avoidance, wouldn't that make it's effectively higher than adding 5% elsewhere?) Message Edited by Darthornn on 05-24-2006 10:46 AM

05-25-2006, 12:47 AM	#10
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	MutantCrock1905 wrote: Bruisers aren't raid tanks. Our avoidance isnt all what its cracked up to be. Guards can get just under 70% avoidance from what i have seen with 80+ % mitigation. We're sadly nobodies now adays. I would suggest just working on your mitigation for s'n'g as a personal goal only. Its the truth, unfortunately.. Purrfect Technique Crushbone Purrfect this is wrong now in KoS many raids can actually benefit from a good bruiser tank. SPOILERS BELOW Want to trivilize gorenaire. She has a direct MT teleport randomly. As well as a ton of adds. Use 1-2 brawlers to tank gorenaire when the brawler gets ported away he fakes drops agro and the other brawler or tank picks up agro. Brawler then stands up a moment later runs back to raid and resumes tanking until he gets ported again. This keeps gore stationaire and removes that major issue. The guard MT cna be the MA for adds and control adds. There are 2 ways to handle them. Halls of seeing is done alot easier with a brawler settign off traps and not trianing raid. 3 princes is almost impossible w/o a bruiser In general raids are alot easier w a bruiser guard and paladin depending on the raid mob and the type of aoe. If the mob mem wipes the MT a paladin is a supreme tank for it. Depending. So no a brawler is alot better for raids.

05-25-2006, 01:12 AM	#11
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	some may or may not agree, imho the best tank setup is. 4/4/8 Sta and 4/8/8/5/8 Int Ok reasoning below. 4 sta more hp, 4 sta debuff nice pull skill, 8 mantis bolt more roughhouseing procs, more dps 4 int not great but better proc dam, 8 eagle spin great stun on heroics and an extra 500dam atk may be nerfed in lu24, 8 crits huge dps improvement may be nerfed in lu24, 5 parry hardest defensive skill to cap for brawler more riposte, final int ability there is countless times tanking i have been below 30% where this skill is a godsend. Try it out for yourself. For raids this will help curb the 2 shot problem a bit. Skills are effectivly soft capped at 420 for defense parry and deflection. defense is generally well above the cap. The effect of skill raised above 420 is unknown since displayed versus lvl 70 mobs shows no improvement. Improvemnt vs 74 mobs is unknown. 420 deflection is obtainable with raid gear (mostly for monks). Parry is nearly impossible to cap, Although theoretically possible. After the nerf to the int line i plan to go. 4/4/4/4/8 Int and 4/4/5/4/8 Wis. Reason is because it gives me a tremndous mix of extreme dps and extreme tanking. Just in case for wondering in raids w multi mobs you cna hit 2k+ dps eveyr 5 min using the final Wis line ability. And there are some very powerful staves in Halls fo seeing several 106+ DR staves and a 109+Dr staff. To bad we can't use hammers w the wis line because there is an insane (106+DR) Encounter aoe based taunt procing 2 handed hammer.

05-25-2006, 02:29 AM	#12
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	Darthornn wrote: Would someone please elaborate how the 5% from the STR line is added to avoidance? Does it affect the cap, or it it calculated completely separately? How does it display on the character screen, does it just add % to parry or what? Very curious how it is calculated (if it's applied before any other avoidance, wouldn't that make it's effectively higher than adding 5% elsewhere?) Message Edited by Darthornn on 05-24-2006 10:46 AM Yes, it is applied before your avoidance check. It is an outright chance to riposte/parry any attack right away, and if that fails, then it goes for your normal avoidance check. Combine this with the temp buff from the gloves from Lyceum, which gives a 2% chance to block (for only 30 seconds now =( ...) and you will have a very noticable difference when avoiding attacks.