Monk DPS > Bruiser DPS currently?!

[LordMacbe]

Are bruisers somewhat lagging behind monks now in the dps department due to the huge proc nerf thanks to the former ranger gods?Got to love the domino effect.

[Ether]

Yes I think Bruisers do approximately 97.8934% the damage of Monks. That is highly situational of course and depends on strict correction for confounding factors like morning diet and excercise routine.

 

Seriously, what question are you trying to pose in your post?

[LordMacbe]

Well I assumed that bruisers were more offense and monks are defense based on what I have read about the classes and what SONY has on the official website (and in the independent game guides as well).I have heard ingame and rarely read on these boards though, that recently in groups monks have been churning out more dps in general due to their haste and bruisers somewhat being hurt by the proc changes.I am posting here to see what bruisers have to say about this and if it is generally true.

[WinterAnar]

Well the 10% proc definately doesn't seem to be a 10% proc anymore on the offencive stance.  And Monks can stack haste up the whazoo so it wouldn't surprise me at all if monks were outdamaging bruisers.  Though I think this may have been the case before the changes to procs. A monk can stack haste and get to ~30% at level 24.  A bruiser can have like 9% dps mod? One has to wonder why they didn't just add +dps to the offencive stance when they first made it instead of a proc.  I have the feeling this may be how they fix the situation.

[Mathe]

The proc change is incredibly minimal to Bruiser. Haste isn't going to make up for the fact Bruiser CA damage is just flat out better. A better upgraded and/or better played Monk will outdamage a Bruiser, they are close enough that isn't too implausible, but the loss of what is really a pretty minimal damage change for anyone, but Rangers, is hardly a major consideration. My Swashbuckler has more multi-hit abilities and better proc damage, the actual effect of that nerf was completely unnoticable for me.

Bruiser damage is largely centered around their CAs. As is that of every other class. If it wasn't, then my Inquisitor with his legendary hammer and +DPS from Blessing would logically be a great damage dealer, but he isn't because he doesn't have the damage CAs or spells that easily beat out a good weapon and buff for damage.

The actual effect of Monk haste, in full offensive stance, is a lot more minimal than you would think. Let's say they have 70 damage weapons (about the same as Tier 6 legendary), say they have a 20% haste advantage (not sure about that most Monks I see never use offensive stance) over the Bruiser they are grouped with. That amounts to 14 more DPS while swinging (has no bearing on when using CAs), let's say they spend about 15 minutes using CAs, that amounts to 45 seconds x 14 DPS, meaning 630 more damage. Higher damage CAs would easily make up that gap and from what I've seen Bruiser CAs are sufficiently better damage to make up that gap.

[Quicksilver74]

no.. what you have heard is wrong.   Bruisers own monks.  if you see a monk out dps a bruiser, then that only means one thing.... the end of the world is at hand. 

[Parasite]

Depends on the situation really

 

Most Group Hunting goes like this

--> Pull and 20seconds later mob is dead : Bruiser 590 DPS

--> Monk no idea bout monks but defanitly lower :p

 

This is what happens if the combat takes about 45 Seconds:

--> Bruiser has used all his CA the first 20seconds together with Knockout Combination And now has 2 low recast minimal skills left to use

--> Monks Happely keeps on using his half time recast spells and auto attacking

 

CA Balance each other out really : They do half the damage with their CA as us , but our CA Takes twice the refresh time.

Only real issue here is autocombat witch should be balanced out to make things equal again

Think our offensive stance should gain some personal DPS% Boost like another 40% or something i dunno,

Something to balance out the auto attack damage again between monk and bruiser.

 

Greetz

 

[DarkMirrax]

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Quicksilver74 wrote:

no.. what you have heard is wrong.   Bruisers own monks.  if you see a monk out dps a bruiser, then that only means one thing.... the end of the world is at hand. 

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ROFL

 

[DarkMirrax]

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Parasiteke wrote:

Depends on the situation really

 

Most Group Hunting goes like this

--> Pull and 20seconds later mob is dead : Bruiser 590 DPS

--> Monk no idea bout monks but defanitly lower :p

 

This is what happens if the combat takes about 45 Seconds:

--> Bruiser has used all his CA the first 20seconds together with Knockout Combination And now has 2 low recast minimal skills left to use

--> Monks Happely keeps on using his half time recast spells and auto attacking

 

CA Balance each other out really : They do half the damage with their CA as us , but our CA Takes twice the refresh time.

Only real issue here is autocombat witch should be balanced out to make things equal again

Think our offensive stance should gain some personal DPS% Boost like another 40% or something i dunno,

Something to balance out the auto attack damage again between monk and bruiser.

 

Greetz

 

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Nah in 45 Sec's our CA's are burnt out so we just mez and have a smoke for a few before we carry on beating the crap outta the mobs , much more power efficient that way :smileytongue:

[Shankonia]

Monk here.  I duo and grp regularly with a Bruiser.  We are pretty much equally equipped in Legendary/Fabled T6 and T7 gear and at least before he upgraded all of this skills through lvl 70 to Adept 3, he owned me in DPS (now that he has upgraded CA's i'm his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like it's not even funny).  The only instances I was able to top him - and mind you, we were playing to see how high we could get our DPS - were when I had one of my Master's Rage lines up on the speciffic mob.

 

Now that we're into our AA's a bit (Bruiser going Str/Int and Monk going Sta/Wis) Bruiser continues to top me in just about every encounter.  The only way I can actually come close is on a large grp of mobs w/ Tsunami on, a 2H weapon, and I do everything in my power to keep the grp in front of me.

 

The Bruiser is almost overpowered in raids at the moment.  We hope that some ugrades for our MT and a Troub in his grp will solve the problem, but as of last week he had to fight in defensive stance and could not use his Str AA abilities and CA's or he would pull aggro, FD, wait on the ground for a little bit, stand up, immediately regain aggro, FD again, and either die from an AE or stand up again to auto attack in defensive stance for the duration of the fight. 

 

Hopefully this week he'll get to use his CA's w/ most everyone being level 70. 

 

 

[Danter]

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Shankonia wrote:

Monk here.  I duo and grp regularly with a Bruiser.  We are pretty much equally equipped in Legendary/Fabled T6 and T7 gear and at least before he upgraded all of this skills through lvl 70 to Adept 3, he owned me in DPS (now that he has upgraded CA's i'm his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like it's not even funny).  The only instances I was able to top him - and mind you, we were playing to see how high we could get our DPS - were when I had one of my Master's Rage lines up on the speciffic mob.

 

Now that we're into our AA's a bit (Bruiser going Str/Int and Monk going Sta/Wis) Bruiser continues to top me in just about every encounter.  The only way I can actually come close is on a large grp of mobs w/ Tsunami on, a 2H weapon, and I do everything in my power to keep the grp in front of me.

 

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Bruiser going STR line doesn't help much.  Group with a Monk going STR line and a Bruiser going STR line, then report back.  The difference in DPS is a lot and the Monk can go afk with auto-attack on and equal your damage, while never leaving full power and you constantly being at empty.

-Kald, 69 Bruiser Permafrost

[nobunaga_x]

I am not sure what Bruisers do as far as auto attack damage, but with my current 2h staff (1.8 delay) and my 100% haste I am cranking out anywhere from 250-400 with only my self buffs.  So wih the 100% haste my delay on that is actually .9

[Ashdaren]

Simply put, my auto attack on my bruiser lvl 30 and my bruiser lvl 60 range from 30% to 40% of my total damage on normal fights (selfbuffed)

Monk gets a 100% haste self buffed to auto attack, I guess anyone can do the maths here...

[DarkMirrax]

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Ashdaren wrote:

Simply put, my auto attack on my bruiser lvl 30 and my bruiser lvl 60 range from 30% to 40% of my total damage on normal fights (selfbuffed)

Monk gets a 100% haste self buffed to auto attack, I guess anyone can do the maths here...

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We talking tanking or soloing here cos there is no way on norath that 40 % of your damage comes from autoattack when soloing , CA's are around 80-85 % of my damage other than when im tanking and then i dont give a toss cos i aint dps im the tank

[Ashdaren]

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DarkMirrax wrote:

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Ashdaren wrote:

Simply put, my auto attack on my bruiser lvl 30 and my bruiser lvl 60 range from 30% to 40% of my total damage on normal fights (selfbuffed)

Monk gets a 100% haste self buffed to auto attack, I guess anyone can do the maths here...

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We talking tanking or soloing here cos there is no way on norath that 40 % of your damage comes from autoattack when soloing , CA's are around 80-85 % of my damage other than when im tanking and then i dont give a toss cos i aint dps im the tank

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Indeed, but still the argument remain valid

[LordMacbe]

So as I understand as well, monks atm benefit a lot more from AA lines such as STR?What lines do bruisers benefit the most from atm?

[Shankonia]

So what you're telling me is that if I (a monk) simply auto attack a mob, while the bruiser goes all out blitz on it, I will equal his DPS output?  Are you flippin' kidding me?

I truely hope this thread is not leaning towards a "call to nerf" monk DPS.  Bruisers have the clear DPS advantage over Monks.  If you are getting out DPS'd by a monk you need to upgrade your skills, beef up your +str and make sure you know who is buffing who with what in your grp because something isn't right.

I may test it out soon with equal AA's just to see.

[Obmarbe]

Havent  found a monk that can beat me in pvp yet, every one ive fought died  or tried to run after they lose thier first few teeth.

 

I punch em a few times and its like  someone threw a handful of chiclets on the ground at my feet.

 

Message Edited by Obmarbeta on 03-14-200606:15 PM

[Danter]

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Shankonia wrote:

So what you're telling me is that if I (a monk) simply auto attack a mob, while the bruiser goes all out blitz on it, I will equal his DPS output?  Are you flippin' kidding me?

I truely hope this thread is not leaning towards a "call to nerf" monk DPS.  Bruisers have the clear DPS advantage over Monks.  If you are getting out DPS'd by a monk you need to upgrade your skills, beef up your +str and make sure you know who is buffing who with what in your grp because something isn't right.

I may test it out soon with equal AA's just to see.

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Read my post carefully next time.  I said if Bruiser and Monk are both going STR line, which means they are fighting unarmed, the Bruiser can spam all the combat arts he wants, he'll never outdamage the Monk.  In fact, he won't be anywhere near him.  If you don't believe me, see for yourself.

Am I calling for a nerf?  No.  I want my offensive stance improved and/or AAs catered towards Bruisers and not all of them catered around Monks.

-Kald, 69 Bruiser Permafrost

[Parasite]

Totaly agree there, All AA Seem To Be tailored for monk.

Bruisers don't have any advantage over monks by going some line whilest monks get obvious advantage from going STR or STA or WIS. As for the issue: Monk auttoattack is kicking us in the nuts The only way to fix this is by self boosting DPS% With our offensive stance and/or make a RELEVANT scaling on our Group DPS Buff To Match monk autoattack.

Or Make our proc just go off a lot more, Lets say make it back the original damage (600-800) with 25% proc chance wich still aint going to match it cuz at the moment the 10% and the dmg is silly. (200-400dmg Master I at lvl 62 with 150 INT)

 

For me Bruiser only has 2 issues really

• Scaling of DPS% Buffs <--> Monks Self-Haste Buffs
• Mitigation AA instead of the Deflection in STA line since our deflection is already capped in most of the cases.Or Change the Last INT Line To a Higher % Of HP Requirement

 

Sincere Greetings

Daveke

 

 

[TheHidden]

hey im a monk i know abruiser self caps on agiltiy he does.. meanwhile. my agility is at 250. wihtout added buffs etc he gets 71% avoidance while i get about 67% both in defensive stance and my stance at master 1 not sure on his.and im not sure there is a clear advantage for monks at all. how do you figure?. why would a certain AA line be more useful for monks than bruisers?.

[TheHidden]

where can i get a parser btw id like to toest this out. ..

[Sirlutt]

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LordMacbeth wrote:Are bruisers somewhat lagging behind monks now in the dps department due to the huge proc nerf thanks to the former ranger gods?Got to love the domino effect.

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Thank the wizards, not the Rangers. to think though, it didnt have to be this way.  To fix Rangers all they had to do was stop procs chaining. Rangers could proc poison, then their offensive proc which would proc another poison.  Easy way to fix that, limit to one proc per hit and check the offensive stance first.  If it procs, move along nothing to see here.  That would have moved Ranger damage down to where it needed to be and not affected anyone else.You guys didnt get affected that much, no where near what classes using slower weapons did.  Classes who had no choice to use those slower weapons no doubt.

[Gaige]

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Parasiteke wrote:

Mitigation AA instead of the Deflection in STA line since our deflection is already capped in most of the cases.

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I guarantee you that your deflection is not capped.

[Corasik]

There used to be a rumour that deflection capped at 40%, however with some of the +deflection on items, I've been able to push my deflection to around 43% with self buffs, and its certainly still increasing the displayed total avoidance number. If there was a cap, its been raised in the expansion.

 

But at the moment we have the choice of 1.6% (approx) gain to defence, 1.5% to deflection, and 2.0% to parry per Achievement point. Parry seems to be the best first choice to improve avoidance, but defence or deflection, im just not sure which is the more effective choice.

 

But as Gaige says, dont worry about hitting deflection cap.

[Gaige]

The overall avoidance cap is 80% and deflection and parry both cap at 70%.

[Parasite]

@ The Hidden : U Get Wisdom buffs thus more resists ...

SO your argument is pretty much useless

On monk forum i see people posting they do 800-1000 DPS , i don't even get close to that TBH

maybe i am doing something wrong but i think i don't. I Just Blame their self haste 100%.

Bruiser Offensice stance needs loving !!! Give us self capped 100% DPS Boost !!

[Owa]

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Parasiteke wrote:

@ The Hidden : U Get Wisdom buffs thus more resists ...

SO your argument is pretty much useless

On monk forum i see people posting they do 800-1000 DPS , i don't even get close to that TBH

maybe i am doing something wrong but i think i don't. I Just Blame their self haste 100%.

Bruiser Offensice stance needs loving !!! Give us self capped 100% DPS Boost !!

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Monk DPS is definitely too high comparitively to Bruisers atm. I'm sure we'll be brought up again before too long. It all depends on how Moorguard's alts are doing ...

[Gaige]

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annaspider wrote:

Monk DPS is definitely too high comparitively to Bruisers atm. I'm sure we'll be brought up again before too long. It all depends on how Moorguard's alts are doing ...

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Last I checked MG doesn't play alts - just his main.

If you want to know the truth... I think you guys are full of it.  I think if anything you were broken before the proc changes and we're more even now then we were.

I'm sure you won't believe that, but then again it doesn't really change it.

[ganjookie]

sorry to hijackgrats on Sensei title Gaige