Bruisers and the role we fill.

[Stroicthe]

Greetings friends! Since we seem to be lacking a thread such as this, I figured I would post the Screenshots of our level 47+ skills, as well as supply a brief explanation of what we Bruisers bring to the table. Hope it helps! The Damage As a Bruiser, damage makes up an important part of what we bring to the raid. Correctly buffed  we are capable of very solid DPS, both in a burst situation and a long term battle. Note I'm geared much more for tanking than for DPS, but these screens should give folks a rough idea of our damage abilities. All screens were taken at 350 Strength. Do note that damage arts only make up about 40-50% of our total damage output, pure auto attack easily accounts for 30%, and with the proper setup your procs can deal up to 20-30% of your output as well, so stay mindful of your gear. A well equipped and skilled Bruiser can put out numbers I'll keep to myself, for our own sakes :smileytongue:. The Buffs Another vital part of Bruiser life is choosing the correct buff for the correct situation. Stance switching during battle is a very rewarding skill to learn, as it allows you to not only do well in a tank situation, but also allows you to throttle your DPS if you feel the need. A lot can be said for a simple change in stances or the removal of Quarrel. As can be seen above, Bruisers are very flexible, capable of both strong DPS and solid tanking. Proper use of buffs can go miles in improving your solo, tank, and raid dps capabilities. The Utility When it comes to fighter utility, few can match a Bruiser. Equipped with a powerful mez, a solid fear, a massive melee debuff, powerful anti-control abilities, and superb self healing, a Bruiser is a true toolbox of goodies. Combined with feign death and safe fall, keeping a Bruiser down for good can be quite a task indeed! Our Stone deaf and Close Mind allow us to wade into battles many other fighters could not attempt. With Resolute Will in reserve we can clear many troublesome DoT and stun effects, and should the situation take a turn for the worst we can feign death and quickly recover. Our crowd control abilities are lethal in both solo play and pvp, as we can keep at least one critter out of combat as long as needed with mez and stun. Be warned of your power pool however, using crowd control, DPS, and tank skills drains us down fast. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------- -------------- ------ -- - Bruisers are defined by one simple word. Flexibility. We are solid tanks for groups as well as offtanking duties during raids. At will we can switch to raw DPS, which in the right circumstances can make many DPS classes raise an eyebrow and stop slacking. Crowd control? Debuffs? Stuns? We can work within those fields as well. Learn to exploit your flexiblity; switch stances, mez things, stun lock things, Intercede the main tank and self heal, run through seemingly impossible locations with Feign Death and stun immunity. Once you start to focus less on one area, such as tanking, and more on the class as a whole, you can begin to see just how powerful we can be. Stay well rounded and you'll not only become flexible and able to react to a multitude of sudden dangers, but you will also pick up many tricks that allow you to do a single thing, like tanking, better than you had originally thought was possible. Anywho, I do hope this post can help a few folks, and I wish you all, Bruiser or not, the best of luck in your travels. Thanks for reading, and I'll see ya in the ring. Dof

Message Edited by Stroicthe on 01-03-2006 07:50 AM

[Mum]

Haha  I knew you had quarrel upgraded to A3 you aggro yanker you -Tamaran- 60 Iksar Bruiser of AB

Message Edited by Mumar on 12-04-2005 10:23 AM

[SageGaspar]

Nice post, Dof. I just got Quarrel at Adept III myself

 

I would just like to add some related advice that you gave me before, which was that AE attacks are much more important than they might seem. Most of the game, you only have one, though in the upper levels you get the very powerful Savage Blows.

 

The reason is that Bruisers have very poor (possibly the worst) group and multi-encounter aggro control. While you have aggro locked down solidly on the main target, the healer is still getting aggro from the other mobs in the encounter, and sometimes that long-refresh group taunt isn't going to do it. On multi-encounter pulls, forget about it. When the situation goes south and more than one encounter is pulled, hitting your AE attacks will often provide enough DPS to keep them on you instead of your poor healer. Also, it has a chance to proc your hate effect (in this post, Quarrel). Because you have to actually make contact to get that aggro, a lot of times it's worth thinking about switching into offensive/half-and-half when you do this.

 

This aggro makes it worth giving consideration to tanking EXP groups in the half-and-half stance, or even offensive stance. If healing is not an issue, a Bruiser is capable of providing very high DPS and thus allowing others to DPS more as well.

[Stroicthe]

Some fine tips, thank you for the input! And ya know I'm not usin' Quarrel during raids Tammeh :-p

[Danan]

Sad to see stirring cry at 18.3% @ Adept3 when Master I of Rousing Cry is 18%

[Sanamien]

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Dananeb wrote:

Sad to see stirring cry at 18.3% @ Adept3 when Master I of Rousing Cry is 18%

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Yeah. I won't get that spell unless it's the master. Found Rousing Cry (Master I) at 50g, and 0.3% more added DPS isn't worth a T6 rare imo.

[Stroicthe]

Master 1 Stirring is a flat 20% melee dps boost, so a decent upgrade I suppose.

[Lordslapen]

Please Skicky! Thanks...

[industrock]

good post

[Quicksilver74]

That has got to be one of the most informative, and well put together posts I have ever read.   Fantastic!  

 

You did a great job... this thread should be stickied.

[Panad]

Yeah, Sticky!

[Gungo]

sticky and should probably add Devastation fist, Rescue, Intercede, and the single target taunt from Splitpaw that increases w lvl and has a 10% chance to double taunt its good if you don't need to taunt while stunned. And any other spells we can still use at 60 i forgot.

[Oidan]

Do you have to own splitpaw to get the new taunt or can anyone use?

[Gungo]

You ha ve to own do 4 missions and buy it off the vendor. After lu13 i somehow had mine deleted from my spell book and had to rebuy it.

[Stroicthe]

First I'd like to say thanks to the folks who dropped by and commented, I appreciate it. Second, I would like to inform you of a few canges. I've included the various abilities still used at level 60, such as Devestation fist, Intercede, Rescue, and Goading Gesture. I've also added a brief passage on what Bruisers are and what roles we fill, as well as retaking all the screenshots to account for the new % based chance to resist section that was recently added to the skills this past LU. I've also cleaned up the screenshot quality, so no more squinting or blurry pictures :smileyhappy:. Happy Holidays folks and I hope ya have a good un'. Dof

[Oidan]

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Gungo wrote:

You ha ve to own do 4 missions and buy it off the vendor. After lu13 i somehow had mine deleted from my spell book and had to rebuy it.

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Can you repeat that again? Does that mean yes, you have to own the adventure pack to be able to use the spells?

[Sirlutt]

this post is why i made a bruiser alt .. i have a 36 guard, 28 zerker, 28 pally, 25 monk and now a brawler on her way to being a bruiser. .. on top of a main who is a 57 rangerquite frankly guardians have been crippled.. zerkers dont do enough damage.. pallys are the agro kings with amends line .. so i figured i'd try a bruiser because you guys have gotten some serious dev love.. the ymust be blind to NOT see how over powered you are.. hell my zerker at 28 has 5 damage CA's to use 9not counting out of encounter AE's) .. my brawler already has more than that.. and 66% avoidance ?.. holy crap thats amazing... so bruiser it is..not likely to get nerf'd anytime soon either.all other tanks should just create bruisers i think.

[ganjookie]

Bruisers stink IMHO  I dont know whay everyone says we are great....Crusaders are much better with like heals and other stuff plus plate...

[Redbed]

"Bruisers stink IMHO  I dont know whay everyone says we are great...."

 

Well, Im great because I kick major [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  I beat the crap out of something before it does it to me.  Judging from your kung fu message in your sig, I assume you meant to be a monk.  Qeynos is to the west.  Keep going till you hit water.  Thanks for stopping by!

[Stroicthe]

Overpowered? No. Far from it. High end raiding, and to an extent killing yellow and orange group mobs, is currently a pure mitigation game. Things hit plate tanks for 4-5k damage on a real raid, and you don't want to know what happens to even the best equipped Bruiser in the same situation. Believe me, I have tried. Sitting at 80% avoidance raid buffed, and any orange, or even yellow, will be hitting way more than that. Two hits back to back from an orange, your done. And let me tell you, Guardians, Zerks, and Pallys are no where near underpowered in the correct situations. Having raided many many nights with each tanking in various situations, I can tell you that all three not only succeed in their roles, they shine in them. Guardians soak up more damage than anyone else, period. This makes them ideal for big, heavy melee damage mobs, such as many bosses like the Black Queen or Sunchild. A well built raid force or even single group and aggro is not an issue. People seem to think that if they can't mash every damage, debuff, and CC ability they have and the tank can't hold aggro, then the whole subclass is worthless. Even in single groups a Guardian is the perfect tank for high con or named mobs, for exactly the same reasons as above. If aggro is a serious issue, for example in fights when you need to burn as fast as possible, Paladins are by far the best fighter for the job. In a tank situation their self wards and heals, not to mention the 15 minute emergency heal, give them very good staying power and helps healers ease a bit on mana consumption. They are also superb in single groups because Amends allows the DPS to open up a bit more, thus increasing XP/min. Zerkers not only do extreme area damage in Offensive Stance, which by the way has many times overtaken a very skilled Warlock in an AoE battle, they also generate more area hate without damage than any other tank by far. In any serious multi mob encounter, I would want a Zerker tanking for me, no questions asked. So then were do Bruisers sit? We are, if by bug or design, the most flexible fighter in the whole tree. We do very good damage in the hands of someone who knows how to maximize damage in the correct situations, but not as much as a true DPS class. We are more than capable of offtanking adds, removing a huge about of damage from the MT, but we cannot consistantly tank high con raid mobs. We are, if memory serves, one of only two classes that have epic stuns, and let me tell you, those have saved more lives and even more raids then I care to count. In a pinch we can Rescue and throw up Calloused Skin if need be, should a key buffer or even the main tank go down. Our Ignore Agony makes us wonderful Interceders, almost as good as Crusaders. Our debuff is very potent at adept 3 or master 1, decreasing damage taken by a very noticable amount. Taking a look at our skills only without considering the whole package, for example about 1.5-2k less Mitigation for 15-20% avoidance raid buffed, and then calling for a nerf is not only irritating, it's insulting. I'm sorry if I'm a bit terse, but it can drive me nuts when folks hop on the forums after playing their level 30 (insert class here) for 4 days, and start posting a bunch of swill. Now by all means you are entitled to your opinion, but I have no intention of letting this thread degenerate into another Brawler vs. Warrior vs. Crusader flame fest where people on all three sides are talking out the wrong hole. Now if you would like to have said flame fest, I kindly suggest you take it to any of the dozens of other threads that are already nice and hot for you. I direct the above paragraph not at any one person, but at anyone looking to start some flames. I hope from this post down we can have a constructive thread with well thought out responses to any questions, opinions, or points of view from other folks, as that was the entire purpose of this thread. Thank you, Dof

Message Edited by Stroicthe on 01-03-2006 07:37 AM

[Sirlutt]

luckily i've played all 6 of my tanks for more than 4 days You make some valid points, but you miss in some places aswell..  Havinfplayed all 6 tanks, I can tell you guardians do suffer with agro, greatly.  Yes its up to your group to curtail the amount of damage they can do to help you keep agro.  What that means is in most grouping cases you want a pally .. a zerker or a bruiser/monk instead of a guardian because the DPS can go harder and dont have to restrict themselves as much.  Guardian AE agro is the worst.  The more mit/avoidance/buff'd you get , the less your AE taunts proc (they rely on you getting hit, make it harder to get hit = less agro).  That combined with no real utility when not tanking makes the guardian a poor choice these days.. probably a good thing as they used to be way over powered (much like bruisers are now).anyhow.. I am loving my bruiser very much.. feels good to be one of the chosen ones .. the nerf bat wont happen to bruisers soon, if ever so I feel safe that I can play a character and not have it ripp'd out from under me anytime soon.  You guys were smart to pick a bruiser btw - there is a post exactly like this in the guard forums, showing their utility, damage, agro etc.. check it out for a amusing read.  Check out the Bruiser vs Guard damage comparison aswell.. awesome read.

Message Edited by Sirlutt on 01-03-2006 07:52 AM

[ganjookie]

Redbeard I luv ya man.Please don't take my, trying to turn people away from Bruisers as be for relanesses.  I just dont want All tanks = Briusers to be true.  I wouldn't choose another class, including monk.  Now with that being said..Bruisers do suck, we have no skills or pwer.  We have to wear light armor and use our fists.  We cant use swords or axes, and there are no Baseball bats, with GIGANTIC NAILS in them, in game for us to us to use.

Message Edited by ganjookie on 01-03-2006 09:20 AM

[Redbed]

:smileyhappy:

 

"there are no Baseball bats, with GIGANTIC NAILS in them, in game for us to us to use."

Closest is a Greatmace, I have one.  Pretty nice, was nicer before they upped duel wield, no reason to use it now other then when humiliating someone in a duel.

[Gungo]

redbed use to be a pain pre lu-13 =P.

When bruisers wanted to be a real tank and not just another scout.

[Redbed]

Bah, your just bitter cause Im happy....happy beating the crap out of monks in POF.  One of them even dropped me a cobolt a few weeks ago...I could just Imagine the conversation on Ashen_Disciple Channel 3.

Ashen Disciple 174 (Bob): Hey guys I just harvested a cobolt.

Ashen Disciple 123 (Hal): WOOT!!!

Ashen Disciple 092 (Sam): Congrats!

Shing Ho: You should get some knuckles made!

Ashen Disciple 174 (Bob): Oh hell, Alexyi's up.  Lets get a group together and kick his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

Ashen Disciple 174 (Bob): OH #$(* I aggroed him.

Ashen Disciple 092 (Sam): Hey Bob......

Ashen Disciple 092 (Sam): Bob?

Ashen Disciple 123 (Hal): Bob you there?

 

[TheSummoned]

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Redbed wrote:

Bah, your just bitter cause Im happy....happy beating the crap out of monks in POF.  One of them even dropped me a cobolt a few weeks ago...I could just Imagine the conversation on Ashen_Disciple Channel 3.

Ashen Disciple 174 (Bob): Hey guys I just harvested a cobolt.

Ashen Disciple 123 (Hal): WOOT!!!

Ashen Disciple 092 (Sam): Congrats!

Shing Ho: You should get some knuckles made!

Ashen Disciple 174 (Bob): Oh hell, Alexyi's up.  Lets get a group together and kick his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

Ashen Disciple 174 (Bob): OH #$(* I aggroed him.

Ashen Disciple 092 (Sam): Hey Bob......

Ashen Disciple 092 (Sam): Bob?

Ashen Disciple 123 (Hal): Bob you there?

 

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Haha! Good one

[Monkeysrockz]

Stirring Cry master 1 is 21%

Message Edited by Monkeysrockz on 01-05-2006 08:19 AM

[Fingle]

Just wanted to thank you for posting this.  With a level 47 bruiser up and coming fast, this was a nice time to find this BTW having a blast playing him, but then you guys know that already