Tanking for smaller groups?

pwcrac · 05-25-2005, 04:30 PM

Right now I have a lvl 30 assassin and I want to start a new character to play with some RL friends of mine. For smaller groups, around 3-4 people, with only one tank. What would be more useful, a Bruiser or Berserker? What would be the benefits of the Bruiser over the zerker? I can't decide between the two, but am leaning towards the Bruiser.

Thanks in advance.

CosmicAcidGu · 05-25-2005, 05:32 PM

play whatever is more fun to you. If you have a group of friends playing together, it hurts when one quits / rerolls because he didn't choose the class he wants to play but rather the one that looked stronger.

still one advice though: bruiser are the least defensive of the fighter classes. This is not too much a problem, but the cleric class is more balanced to heal plate classes, so a cleric + brawler combo is weaker than other comboes.

Finnster

Kreat · 05-25-2005, 09:11 PM

CosmicAcidGuru wrote:
play whatever is more fun to you. If you have a group of friends playing together, it hurts when one quits / rerolls because he didn't choose the class he wants to play but rather the one that looked stronger.

still one advice though: bruiser are the least defensive of the fighter classes. This is not too much a problem, but the cleric class is more balanced to heal plate classes, so a cleric + brawler combo is weaker than other comboes.

Finnster

I wouldn't say that though, I've tanked on my 44 bruiser since I started it, and quite frankly, I prefer getting healed by reactives. For the most part, I keep a mob stifled, so whatever hits I take are potshots that reactives are perfect to deal with.

Katanari · 05-25-2005, 09:50 PM

I agree with Kreated. Though my Bruiser is still a young level I have a friend that plays a plate healer and we make a terrific team! It all comes down to how you play the class.

Grayd · 05-26-2005, 01:31 AM

I agree, play what ever is more fun to you.

I played my bruiser to 29 and then rolled a berserker and played him to 30. I was concerned because the bruiser got beat up a lot and couldn't hold agro all the time, particularly in multi-mob groups after first mob dies.

Berserker got beat up a lot too. He did not do a remarkably better job at taking damage so far as I could tell even tho his gear was better. I box the healer so I know about the healing lol.

Berserker did a marginally better job at multi-mob agro control. you'd expect the berserker to do a much better job but that wasn't my experience.

I didnt parse them but do "feel" that the bruiser does slightly more damage, not enough to make the difference really. Their ATK numbers at level 30 were very close or identical. Didnt bother to check hps or power.

At lvl 30 the avoidance % and mitigation % were different. IF you add the two together self-buffed the bruiser was higher by about 10% I think, say 105% to 95% or something like that although I am NOT sure whether adding them gives you any meaningful measure of relative defensive ability.

In case you haven't guessed I went back to the bruiser, even after I did the shiny brass halberd quest for the berserker AND bought him all feysteel crafted armor (ugh).

Today I was three boxing in the underoot cavern instances in Bloodlines. 38 warden, 34 ranger, 34 bruiser tanking level 38 and 39 heroics without too much trouble. Of course when the dryad thingy charmed the bruiser he almost killed the ranger but I got evac off and lived.

Any fighter class would do fine for your group, follow your gut. If you go bruiser use your self-heal and group-buff for multi-mob agro generation.

Bloomber · 05-26-2005, 04:33 AM

I routinely 3 box a berserker, bruiser and an inquisitor with my wife playing a coercer. I've spent game sessions tanking with both the bruiser and berserker and my personal leaning is to favor the berserker. At least in this group setting I feel more comfortable with him in the tanking role.

Currently in the low 40s where I am at now, the berserker has more and better skills for generating and maintaining agro. This is especially true for acquiring maximum agro on mobs outside your currently engaged encounter. I've come to the conclusion that the War Chant line of the berserker is far more effective in drawing adds to me than the Intimidating Orders line. On top of that, where bruisers in the early 40s have only one group buff for this function, a berserker has four.

Another factor that has me favoring the berserker in the tank role is the inquisitor. It's been stated before and I do concur that berserkers take to reactive healing much better than bruisers do. With both classes using Tier 5 common tradeskill equipment for nearly all slots, the berserker has a 20% lead on mitigation which more often than not will only require reactive heals to keep up and going. The bruiser on the other hand periodically requires additional direct heals which on occasion has put my group in jeopardy draining the inquisitor's power before the encounter is concluded.

All things being equal I would ask what class your group healer would be interested in playing. If she were leaning toward a shaman then I'd try a bruiser or if a cleric is her calling a berserker with a druid being in my experience bias neutral. Ultimately it will come down to which class you find more fun, and even though I prefer to tank with my berserker, the bruiser is with out a doubt in my mind more fun to play. When you do finally pick a class and get your new group together come back and drop us a line to let us know how it's going. Until then have a splendid day.

Message Edited by Bloomberry on 05-25-200508:40 PM

Message Edited by Bloomberry on 05-25-2005 08:40 PM

Kreat · 05-26-2005, 03:34 PM

There are pros and cons to most tanks, but I feel that, for most groups, any of the fighter classes can pretty much hack it if you know what you are doing. Sadly, bruiser mitigation is awful, and if I do not keep a mob stifled, I tend to take some horrible licks (which I use my self heal to help with).Also, it all comes down to maximizing what your group has to offer, with a bard-type and a druid in a group, you are buffed to the high heavens, and with a temp/inquis as well, you are well off as a tank in an XP group.. . I wouldn't have a brawler tank a raid mob though if there was even the slightest possibility of getting a guard or a zerk to do so, but when it comes to crusader sub-classes, it's an even toss-up with brawlers/crusaders for who does the best tanking job.Velan's Nervy Order, at level 40 (14% group haste or so) really makes a huge difference, so does making the most of your stuns, be you dps'ing or tanking. Hammering Fist + One Hundred Hand Slap when flanking them, use heavy scarring + cycling taunts after that, and you will rarely see a bruiser take much damage, nor lose agro at all..The clue is, make the most of what your group/class offers, and don't listen to much to the general bile that flows on the forums. If something works for you, great! If not, look for other solutions, there is always a way SMILEY

05-25-2005, 05:32 PM	#2
CosmicAcidGu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 200	play whatever is more fun to you. If you have a group of friends playing together, it hurts when one quits / rerolls because he didn't choose the class he wants to play but rather the one that looked stronger. still one advice though: bruiser are the least defensive of the fighter classes. This is not too much a problem, but the cleric class is more balanced to heal plate classes, so a cleric + brawler combo is weaker than other comboes. Finnster __________________

05-25-2005, 09:11 PM	#3
Kreat Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	CosmicAcidGuru wrote: play whatever is more fun to you. If you have a group of friends playing together, it hurts when one quits / rerolls because he didn't choose the class he wants to play but rather the one that looked stronger. still one advice though: bruiser are the least defensive of the fighter classes. This is not too much a problem, but the cleric class is more balanced to heal plate classes, so a cleric + brawler combo is weaker than other comboes. Finnster I wouldn't say that though, I've tanked on my 44 bruiser since I started it, and quite frankly, I prefer getting healed by reactives. For the most part, I keep a mob stifled, so whatever hits I take are potshots that reactives are perfect to deal with. __________________ Rhyza - Dirge Fable - Splitpaw

05-25-2005, 09:50 PM	#4
Katanari Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 40	I agree with Kreated. Though my Bruiser is still a young level I have a friend that plays a plate healer and we make a terrific team! It all comes down to how you play the class. __________________ Korbian level 80 Assassin Quinton level 80 Defiler Auvry level 80 Wizard Emorean lvl 80 Necromancer Mikellan lvl 80 Shadow Knight Malarik level 65 Coercer

05-26-2005, 03:34 PM	#7
Kreat Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	There are pros and cons to most tanks, but I feel that, for most groups, any of the fighter classes can pretty much hack it if you know what you are doing. Sadly, bruiser mitigation is awful, and if I do not keep a mob stifled, I tend to take some horrible licks (which I use my self heal to help with).Also, it all comes down to maximizing what your group has to offer, with a bard-type and a druid in a group, you are buffed to the high heavens, and with a temp/inquis as well, you are well off as a tank in an XP group.. . I wouldn't have a brawler tank a raid mob though if there was even the slightest possibility of getting a guard or a zerk to do so, but when it comes to crusader sub-classes, it's an even toss-up with brawlers/crusaders for who does the best tanking job.Velan's Nervy Order, at level 40 (14% group haste or so) really makes a huge difference, so does making the most of your stuns, be you dps'ing or tanking. Hammering Fist + One Hundred Hand Slap when flanking them, use heavy scarring + cycling taunts after that, and you will rarely see a bruiser take much damage, nor lose agro at all..The clue is, make the most of what your group/class offers, and don't listen to much to the general bile that flows on the forums. If something works for you, great! If not, look for other solutions, there is always a way __________________ Rhyza - Dirge Fable - Splitpaw

05-25-2005, 04:30 PM	#1
pwcrac Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1	Right now I have a lvl 30 assassin and I want to start a new character to play with some RL friends of mine. For smaller groups, around 3-4 people, with only one tank. What would be more useful, a Bruiser or Berserker? What would be the benefits of the Bruiser over the zerker? I can't decide between the two, but am leaning towards the Bruiser. Thanks in advance.

05-26-2005, 01:31 AM	#5
Grayd Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6	I agree, play what ever is more fun to you. I played my bruiser to 29 and then rolled a berserker and played him to 30. I was concerned because the bruiser got beat up a lot and couldn't hold agro all the time, particularly in multi-mob groups after first mob dies. Berserker got beat up a lot too. He did not do a remarkably better job at taking damage so far as I could tell even tho his gear was better. I box the healer so I know about the healing lol. Berserker did a marginally better job at multi-mob agro control. you'd expect the berserker to do a much better job but that wasn't my experience. I didnt parse them but do "feel" that the bruiser does slightly more damage, not enough to make the difference really. Their ATK numbers at level 30 were very close or identical. Didnt bother to check hps or power. At lvl 30 the avoidance % and mitigation % were different. IF you add the two together self-buffed the bruiser was higher by about 10% I think, say 105% to 95% or something like that although I am NOT sure whether adding them gives you any meaningful measure of relative defensive ability. In case you haven't guessed I went back to the bruiser, even after I did the shiny brass halberd quest for the berserker AND bought him all feysteel crafted armor (ugh). Today I was three boxing in the underoot cavern instances in Bloodlines. 38 warden, 34 ranger, 34 bruiser tanking level 38 and 39 heroics without too much trouble. Of course when the dryad thingy charmed the bruiser he almost killed the ranger but I got evac off and lived. Any fighter class would do fine for your group, follow your gut. If you go bruiser use your self-heal and group-buff for multi-mob agro generation.

05-26-2005, 04:33 AM	#6
Bloomber Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	I routinely 3 box a berserker, bruiser and an inquisitor with my wife playing a coercer. I've spent game sessions tanking with both the bruiser and berserker and my personal leaning is to favor the berserker. At least in this group setting I feel more comfortable with him in the tanking role. Currently in the low 40s where I am at now, the berserker has more and better skills for generating and maintaining agro. This is especially true for acquiring maximum agro on mobs outside your currently engaged encounter. I've come to the conclusion that the War Chant line of the berserker is far more effective in drawing adds to me than the Intimidating Orders line. On top of that, where bruisers in the early 40s have only one group buff for this function, a berserker has four. Another factor that has me favoring the berserker in the tank role is the inquisitor. It's been stated before and I do concur that berserkers take to reactive healing much better than bruisers do. With both classes using Tier 5 common tradeskill equipment for nearly all slots, the berserker has a 20% lead on mitigation which more often than not will only require reactive heals to keep up and going. The bruiser on the other hand periodically requires additional direct heals which on occasion has put my group in jeopardy draining the inquisitor's power before the encounter is concluded. All things being equal I would ask what class your group healer would be interested in playing. If she were leaning toward a shaman then I'd try a bruiser or if a cleric is her calling a berserker with a druid being in my experience bias neutral. Ultimately it will come down to which class you find more fun, and even though I prefer to tank with my berserker, the bruiser is with out a doubt in my mind more fun to play. When you do finally pick a class and get your new group together come back and drop us a line to let us know how it's going. Until then have a splendid day. Message Edited by Bloomberry on 05-25-200508:40 PM Message Edited by Bloomberry on 05-25-2005 08:40 PM