Bruiser Guidance

[cugi]

Hi,

 

I am new to Everquest II and my first character is a Troll Bruiser (soon-to-be, level 18 atm). 

It is unclear to me:

           1. What weapon I should be using and at what level to upgrade. (fists vs. ???)

           2. What armor I should be using and at what level to upgrade.  (light vs very light)

           3. Relevant Quests (Key weapons, armor)

           4. At different levels an option to choose amongst various skills or masteries becomes available.

               Is there a right one to choose?  Any recommendations on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Is there a Bruiser Players Guide available similiar to what Crusaders have?  It would be really helpful. 

I'd like to add that I want to focus purely on DPS.  There is a tank in my group so I want to focus on DPS only.

 

Thanks,
Cugine

 

[Jezekie]

---

cugine wrote:

I'd like to add that I want to focus purely on DPS. There is a tank in my group so I want to focus on DPS only.

---

I suggest you look towards a scout or mage instead as that's far more beneficial to your group. Brusers aren't a pure bred DPS class, they are based off the fighter archtype and as thus is a tank at heart. Something like a Brigand, Warlock, or Wizard would help your group far more.

[OgApostrap]

Ya, and if you dont want to do your main job.. dont play this class :O... At my level atm, I am easily beating most palte tanks in defense.. at 26 atm.. I can get up to them in best palte they can wear.. or pass them by alot if they suck.. Its too bad that most people jsut look at classes name and then their hp.. I hardly even mention that the mt ahs like 200 more hp then me, and like 700 less defense in most groups.. people dont notice until the tanks dead..

[Warus]

OgApostraphe:

Ya, and if you dont want to do your main job.. dont play this class ...

 

my main job DPS and im doing it very well .u cant just say Bruiser's main job is tanking. this is prolly the most flexible class there is in EQ2.

+ u aint got to 30 yet to talk about tanking, any guardian at that lvl will have more def and more mitigation then u not to cound that we r lousy at tanking in dungeons (Jeer) ,so plz dont state wuts the main job of a bruiser is.

 

u should go with weapons u comfortable with, but if u using fist weapons u'll get most attack, cuz of the roughhouse gives 5 to fist skill.

id go with ligh armor 35% mitigation helps alot on those links and if tank loses hate.

 

traits and training aint really that important u can always /respec. for trits i went agl when possible and training wutever u think is more reflect ur play style.

 

Anihen 34 Bruiser

Nektulos

Message Edited by Warusha on 03-09-2005 07:32 AM

Message Edited by Warusha on 03-09-2005 07:32 AM

Message Edited by Warusha on 03-09-2005 07:33 AM

[Atonal]

You can't always /respec. You can only do it once...ever. If you've done it already, you can't do it again. I'm sure that's not what you meant to imply, however, that's the way your post reads.

[Warus]

yes thx for correction =D

 

here's post a lil part of a post on ranger forum

 

 

Every scout, including the ranger, is doing around 40% of what monks and bruisers are doing, 80% of what guardians are doing, and 20% of what wizards and warlocks are doing in terms of damage. All scouts are usually drained of power, while the sorcerers still have enough power to feed other people. Which means, although we are called "DPS", we are not really, "DPS". In fact, I know a guild who only wishes to raid with two types of scouts, the dirge and the troubadour (for buffs and debuffs).

 

i found almost the same post on assassin forum, so as u c we can out dps some scouts for now. i even can sense the nerf is near =/  i dont think its a rite thing that we out dmg them tho i dont think they should nerf us, they should either remove some immunities from mobs or just shorten the reuse timers for assassinate and some ranger high dmg skills.

 

so lets not talk about our main job for now =D

Message Edited by Warusha on 03-09-2005 08:23 AM

[fur]

Alot and i mean alot of the stuff ive read over on scout forums are just plain lies, a assassin/ranger/brigand/swashbuckler that only do 80% of what a guardian do dps wise must be fighting with the weapon you get on trial island and also be asleep while doing it.

 

Any scout beside bards at level 50 do more damage then ANY of the warrior archs. I can keep up decently if..

#1 They dont use poisons

#2 They got crap [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] strength

#3 They havent upgraded their skills

#4 Im not tanking

#5 They have subpar weapons for their level

 

If all of the above happens then yes i can blow a scout away but hey i should do that as well, you cant base our damage on what the crappiest scouts perform you have to take a good look on how endgame brawlers dps compared to endgame scouts dps, and when you do that you realise that scouts are doin just fine, i dont mind seeing a power boost for scouts 1>49 but if they jack up endgame scouts the endgame scouts will outpace wizzyz/warlocks and they are not supposed to do that according to the great plan of the devs.

 

The only thing they can do is making sure a average wizard outdps a average scout who in turn out dps a average warrior, but with character custumization as it is , you can never get a perfect balance as some people favor doing damage instead of tanking, just as some scout's favor utility in favor of damage (bards will never do the same damage as an assassin do for instance but they way some ppl reason apperently they should), there will always be guardians who will never pick up a shield even though hes supposed to , just as there will be assasssins using a roundshield + 1-hander to get more defence, so what the devs can do is to make sure that the potential for doing damage is higher for casters>scouts>warriors but thats it.

 

One thing that bothers me with all this is what purpuse warriors that dont get picked for the maintank role should have, i mean a scout is always dps, but who would pick a extra tank for a group just in case the first one dies, when they can pick up a scout that gives you another chance for evac and has superior dps, what will happen is that were right back in eq 1 with mt+3dps+buffer+healer or mt+2dps+buffer+2healers.

 

Atm a warrior of any archetype can fill the role of decent dps when not tanking , he does not have the utility of a scout but he can step up and take over tanking should misfortune befall the mt, he can also buff the mt so that he performs better.

 

Now what im wondering is, will a group actually take lower dps and a replacement tank instead of better dps and an extra evac? The answer is pretty obvious imo.

 

Skull - Kithicor

[Warus]

im seeing Bruiser as a help to a MT im talking about our avoidence buff + AC buff we can give to any 1 in a group. and even 33% avoidence is ALOT its 33 hits missed outa 100.

and im loving my Bruiser dps or tanking doesnt really bother me i just like it, enjoyed every single lvl i played so far.

 

the reason i posted in this thread is cuz 3rd post said main job of a Bruiser is a tank which is far from true imo.

 

enjoy the class and play however u want. =D

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

One thing that bothers me with all this is what purpuse warriors that dont get picked for the maintank role should have, i mean a scout is always dps, but who would pick a extra tank for a group just in case the first one dies

 

Something that Scouts can't do (other than bards in a certain sense), is increase the effectiveness of the Main Tank. We have one ability line that specifically makes it so the MT will be hit less (and for less, depending on the ability). Also, we have a ton of status effect abilities.. stunning, stifling, DPS reduction.. or group buffs that increase melee's ability to hit and their DPS.

 

When I'm offtanking (lvl 40 Bruiser), I do the following:

 

Buff the Tank: I hit the MT with Overtaking Blows and Staggering Stance. Not sure if they stack properly (the avoidance), so I'll let Staggering Stance drop if I can't maintain.

 

Buff the Group: I hit the group with Rousing Cry (increase damage skills and general DPS), and if we aren't worrying about mez/charm, Intimidating Orders (lowers mental resist, so have to watch that). They stack, so we can take on higher level mobs with melee with less fear of missing. This helps the Scouts in the group, as well as the tanks trying to land their debuffs.

 

Debuff the Mob: I make sure to land Eye Gouge as often as humanly possible. A little over 30 seconds of a massive reduction in the mob's ability to hit, combined with my ability to increase the MT avoidance, means that half the time they are rarely hit. Also, I toss in Throat Punch and my stuns (Haymaker, and if needed Merciless Stomp).. reducing the creature's ability at using specials effectively.

 

Crowd Control: If crap hits the fan, and we don't have an enchanter, I can offtank an add (single or group) long enough for it to not beat on random group members and for the tank to either claim aggro, or until the group finishes killing the first encounter and then I MT the adds until it we finish it off. If things get really bad, I can Fear a mob that just won't peel, or FD if I'm not supposed to have aggro and they just won't peel from me.

 

Save the Group: When I play with my wife (who's a cleric class), the first thing she does when we log in is give me a rez item. If things get so bad that people start dying, and I can't see us effectively being able to run the mobs off, I will Feign Death and rez the cleric after things clear.

There are pros and cons to both FD/Rez and Evac... Feigning is only good if we die in an area that isn't populated by mobs, and it doesn't always work... Evacing will screw the group if it doesn't catch everyone, or if it's done AFTER someone dies. Personally.. I find it easier to pull mobs to a safe spot, and have to trust on my ability to feign... rather can trust a Scout's ability to time evac properly. It depends on the scout of course... I know plenty of good ones that I DO trust.. just the average pickup group has been 90% bad evacs (when we didn't need to, or after half the group and/or the healer is already dead).

 

 

Other than the last one, all tanks have the same offtanking options. Brawlers have a bit more utility with regards to group saving... but in a good group, that rarely happens anyways (hasn't been something I do that regularly, and 99% of the time I'm in a pickup group).

 

 

Basically, having a secondary tank provides the group with an alternative to always needing a rogue for evac (if Brawler).. an enchanter/bard for crowd control.. and even secondary healers (due to increased MT effectiveness). Which means there are more viable group builds.. which directly translates to less time spent group building for pickup groups. The DPS tanks can bring in, coupled with buffs and debuffs, makes it so you aren't hurting for that lost group slot. Lastly, having two tanks is better than one, literally, since the MT will get a direct tanking boost from the offtank.

It's almost like the slot for an offtank can be considered one half Tank and one half DPS/Utility (Crowd Control/Buff/Debuff). With an secondary tank in the group, you are effectively running with 1.5x Main Tank. Try it out if you haven't.. it makes for a strong group build, if the secondary tank knows what he's doing.

Message Edited by Raidi Sovin'faile on 03-09-2005 09:26 AM

[fur]

Raidi im fully aware of what we bring to the table, my whole point was that for instance when my friends/guildies and i go for a levling session with the few people that hasnt hit 50 yet or just doing a named killin run, the mobs we kill (non epic) are 48>52 and with 3 dps and a mt + buffer (trouby) and a healer we kill so fast there is no need to ever , EVER , have a 2nd tank. Offtanking drains to much power from healer to be an efficent way of handling aggro so the maintanks just "hrmmpfs" and pick up the extra load, if things get out of hand a quick Evac on the teamspeak ensures safety. There is no reason to have a backuptank in a group if he cant pull his weight dps wise. Atm all tanks no matter what class can do that at 50, hell even guardians have respectable dps when not tanking.

 

So my fear is that if this new scout "balancing" severly impacts the endgame, alot of warriors are gonna have very little to do  on raids xept providing subpar dps and throwing off a buff every now and then on the maintank. I dunno though i hope it wont come to that.

 

Skull - Kithicor

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Your experience is skewed, since you always group with the one group build (MT, one healer, troubadour). That combo is very powerful, and no.. you don't need a secondary tank if you have that. Take out the troubadour, then try the same encounters with only another DPS.

 

That's what I was talking about... secondary tanks are useful in all the things I mentioned before, because they create an alternative group build.

 

I've played in MT + 2 Healer groups. I've played in MT + Healer + Enchanter. I've played in 2 Tanks + Healer groups. These are all valid and equally powerful approaches to tanking encounters. Yes, having two tanks plus another class that is specifically designed to cover crowd control and buffage is a less efficient use of classes. But you can't always get two healers, or an enchanter, or a troubadour.

 

I've done raid encounters throughout my leveling, most of them pickup. Currently, my guild doesn't have enough active members to fully take on x2 stuff, let alone x3 or x4... I'm foreseeing a lot of "pickup raids" until guilds solidify enough. Sure, if you are in a perfect guild full of hardcore members, you'll be able to pick and choose and min/max your groups.

 

However, much of my raiding experience with groupx2 and more has involved 2 tanks + 2 or 3 healers and mana regen in the primary tanking group, and DPS/little healing/regen in the other groups. Two tanks, so that the MT has that extra bit of buffage.

 

And while secondary tank doesn't have much more "needed" of them than MT buffage... they do provide extra DPS and debuffage to the group so that you aren't a) a "half slot" (only MT buffing), and b) doing more than just sitting there spamming one single ability.

[fur]

From what i see most guilds that are starting to raid the endgame content , keep their numbers fairly low, there is a reason for this cause you can never field more then 24 persons on a raid (which is a good thing) however by limiting the upper limit of what you can bring with you to that beforesaid raid you also increase the need for several classes, when raiding dps is more important then healing power from what ive seen so far, simply because there is no way to take down the target mob if your dps is to low, aka you cannot grind the mob down with having 3 groups of healers keeping the mt alive while a single group of dps wheedle the mob down, the raid mobs hurt to much for healers to keep up with it beyond a certain limit, that beeing said dps is extremly important in the greater scheme of things.

 

Currently my job on a raid is to provide dps and keeping the mt buffed with Shrug off, and in the event of adds (depending on what type of add) fear / peel / tank until we get the caster boyz to blast it down , my main job though is dps, handling adds and buffing i spend less then 1% of my time doing when we raid.

In the event of main tank death due to lag in heal chain or misfortunate ld we have another heavy mitigation tank standing by to take over, and as you can have shrug off up on 3 persons at the same time it is a very important buff to cast on the replacment tank until he get the single target raid buffs from buff classes up that were on the previous maintank.

 

I dont have any problem with how my bruiser performed when i grinded to 50, no problem what so ever, my point with all my posts and ramblings are to make sure that our class remain a solid choice in the endgame, thats it and currently we have just that, we have a predefined role when raiding, and im sure there are bruisers that can tank raidcontent due to superior equipment both on himself and fellow guildmembers  and cause they trivilized the encounter , however the average bruiser at 50 isnt the best choice for mt, in fact he's the worst choice for the mt role.

 

But we are a good choice for consistent dps and limited utility.