Monk DPS and numbers needed

[Ramius613]

Just wanting to ask if anyone has any DPS #s for wielding 2 >57 DR weapons vs 2 fists with the STR AA line.  I am curious about this as I just got my Wurmslayer, and Marr's fist this past week, and was wondering if they are worth wielding together, or if I should stay with my 96% dbl attack.  I am currently set up for DPS mainly, and want to be able to max out what I have. 

[Ramius613]

Also if I am going to wield 2 weapons, where would you suggest putting the 16 pts I currently have in my STR line 4-4-8?

[Mala-Shea]

Well, straight up your dps should be very close atm. But a dmg adornment proc on the Wurmslayer (if you can...I'm not sure tbh if you can. Claymore I know you can't) and I would lean towards moving your points out of str.

For DW'ing with weapons, the best aa set-up I have found is 448 STA, INT, and WIS. Get a dirge in your group and get ready for a wrecking machine!

[Illustrious]

Dont have any numbers to hand but i used to use Wurmy+Marrs before i got a Vraksakin Club drop for me.  I was Str AA specced at one time but far preferred those 2 DW for DPS, Stats and procs. On draconic mobs Wurmy is excellent as well.

[psubull]

Monk DPS is the highest potential DPS out of all of the melees.  It is the most evenly balanced class when it comes to upgrades and DPS, and I'll throw a few pointers out there as to how to maximize this for yourself.  If another melee will gain 300 dps from a buff or group setup, the monk will gain 400-500.  More raid leaders need to realize that if your assassin goes from 1700 to 2000, it's still not as good for the raid as having a monk going from 800 to 1250.The Strength KOS tree is, in my eyes, primarily a leveling-up spec of AAs.  Using it is nice for starting out raiding as well.  Once you start to get any number of adornable, fabled weapons, it becomes less viable of a selection.  Why do I feel this way?

• Double attack is a wonderful thing, however it caps at 100%.  With 96% base double attack, getting equipment or buffs that increase your double attack are generally wasted.  The difference in DPS between 96% and 100% double attack is only a few dozen, which doesn't make any huge impacts in the long run.
• Monks, with such a large set of self haste, are able to bypass the idea of needing 57 DR weapons.  Example:  Scepter of Destruction has a 61.8 rating.  The damage is 19-56 and the delay is 1.2 second.  Hardshell Sharpened Baton is 56.7 rating.  Damage is 21-120, delay is 2.5 seconds.  Hasted properly, the baton is a superior weapon, and very easily obtained in comparison to the scepter.  The same is true with the Fists of Bashing.
• Monk CAs are, on average, 30 second recast.  Utilizing them in regards to whatever weapons you are using is a very important thing to think about as they are moderate damage and can make, or break, your DPS numbers if you are not careful.
• All in all, monks act mainly off of autoattack, and the buffs they receive are where a majority of their DPS comes from.  Self buffed and solo, a properly specced raid monk should be doing 700-900 DPS, if he or she wishes to feel good about his or herself in the morning.
• Procs are becoming ever more important in DPS numbers.  Since fists cannot be adorned, and since fists have no innate procs, you are losing out on DPS through them and the double attack is not enough to compensate when properly buffed.  LU30 made procs a large part of DPS numbers in relation to how they used to perform.

On to the tips and ideas:Maximizing DPS can be done by taking into account the following:

• Haste percentage
• DPS modifier
• Group makeup
• Debuffs on the MOB
• Proper use of CAs with respect to weapon delay
• Buffs
• Potions

I average 1600 DPS on zone parses.  Certain fights pull down my zone parses by a hundred or so on occasion, but those fights prohibit me from acting at my best DPS potential.  I am fairly certain that there are monks out there doing more than I on zone parses (btw I'm using ext. dps, so I'm being fair), and I am in no way pretending I am special or better than any other monk out there.  I'm just offering some tips to get people's DPS up so the monk isn't frowned upon by people out there.

1. Equipment: My weapons are the Hardshell Sharpened Baton and Fists of Bashing.  I utilize as many +crit items, +str items and +crushing items as I can.  Along with that, I get all of the items with +dps as I can (currently I have +30 dps.  I'm still in search of Zsaies Sash, yelinaks talisman and the ring from PPR.  Those three will give me 28 more base DPS).  The DPS items help with damage per hit Autoattack hit.  The +crush helps with landing hits on yellow/orange cons.  The +str and +crit items help on both autoattack and CA damage.  I use the fire damage adornments for steady damage over time.  Weapons with good procs and nice damage amounts can take you up 100-300 dps.
2. CA use: My setup utilizes the two slowest, high damage KOS/FD dual wields so I am able to spam every CA I have (except Crescent Strike.  I only use that with 6 enemies around or more).  I do not lose any DPS as they haste to 1.1 delay at 200 haste mod.  I have a few attacks that aren't mastered yet, but they still sit happily at ad3.  Since I betrayed from bruiser, I still have some attacks (Frozen Palm, Arctic Talon and Rumbling Wyrm) to upgrade.  I time the larger hits for when dispatch is announced.  Normal spam starts with Storming Palm on the pull, followed by Flailing Centipede to start things off, then Soaring Dragon followed by Frozen Palm and Combination.  By now, dispatch is about to be launched so I'll hit Dragonbreath then Silent Palm, Punishing Cobra, Soaring Eagle, Arctic Talon, Assailing Jaguar, Leaping Tiger, Rumbling Wyrm.  That's my order.  If I really get bored, I'll throw in Eagle Spin.  An extra 360 damage waiting for autoattack to come along is nice.  Using CAs properly can give you 200-300 dps.
3. Group Makeup: Rolling with a dirge, inquisitor, coercer, bruiser, SK and berserker is ideal, but doesn't ever happen for me.  I usually have the dirge, berserker, an assassin and a mystic in my group.  I make sure to get all of the buffs I can.  The dirge I usually group with gives me criticals, casting speed reduction, proc rate increase, DPS buff and Cacophany -- timed on dispatch.  Berserker keeps up group buffs.  Assassin gives poison proc and mystic bolsters + stat buffs me.  The last class in the group will always have some sort of buff for me, whether it's DPS or a proc.  Buffs are important -- Memorize the icons and names, that's incredibly important.  Having the right buffs can add 200-500 dps to your numbers.
4. Potions: You can choose between critical potions (Grandmaster's Elixir of Tactics -- 4% ranged/melee critical) or Strength potions.  If you have 500+ self buffed strength, the crit is a no-brainer.  If you have 370-499 self buffed, flip a coin and use str on tails, crit on heads.  Use these for trash as well as nameds.  It's imperative that you learn how to time things so that the potions can be up for nameds but can be up for many trash mobs as well.  Two words: Jester's Cap.
5. AA's: KOS: Sta/wis/int 4-4-8.  EOF: Get combination.  Get soaring eagle rank 5.  Get Flailing Centipede rank 5.  That's about all you can do to really maximize your DPS.  Combination hits and stays on as a DOT for three hits of 400ish, so it's decent, even though it's an underpowered end-tree AA ability.  There's no reason not to get it.
6. Weapon Delay and CA's: If you autoattack (one round -- so one hit 2h or two hits DW) for more than a CA and your delay is less than 1.0 according to /weaponstats, drop the attacks that do less than one round of autoattack.  You will gain higher DPS numbers this way.

It's very important to pay attention to all of the things involved in the fight.  The better you time things and the more comfortable you get with your raid members, the better your numbers will be.  I don't expect everyone to pump out 1500-1600 off the bat by following this advice, but if someone gains 100-200 dps from taking this information into consideration, I did my job.

[shaolen]

Very nice write up Thunder

[Sick1]

What are you using to get the +30 to dps that you already have?  I have +20 dps using the neck and thrown weapon adornment.  Are there others that i am missing (adornments)?  Plus, it would be nice to have a list of all the items that add + dps and where they are from if anyone would care to list them.

 

thanks,

Sheer 70 monk

[Zheen]

One of my major snags on equipment has been of my ignorance of what attack speed/haste equipment stacks. Is there a formula? Also, I went down the Agility/Int line on KoS AA's and when with an assortment of AA's with EoF. Any recommendations? I have tried to ask around with other monks on our server but get such a diverse answer betrween them it just confused me more. Any help would be awesome.

 

FYI I do play on a PvP Server but it is not my priority.

 

Thanks,

 

Punt 56 Monk on Venekor

[psubull]

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Sick1 wrote:

What are you using to get the +30 to dps that you already have?  I have +20 dps using the neck and thrown weapon adornment.  Are there others that i am missing (adornments)?  Plus, it would be nice to have a list of all the items that add + dps and where they are from if anyone would care to list them.

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Items that can be adorned with DPS AND put in a non-neck slot:Amulet of the Forsworn - Wrist - 10dps Zsaies Sash of Philosophy - Waist - 10dpsYelinak's Talisman - Wrist - 10dpsShimmering Ring of the Djinn - Finger, Wrist - 8dpsDrakescale Gorget - Wrist - 10dpsYou can get 38 from non-default slots, then with that you can get 20 from neck and ranged slots, so +58 is what you can get.  If there are more items, someone post them so I can write them down.

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Zheen wrote:

One of my major snags on equipment has been of my ignorance of what attack speed/haste equipment stacks. Is there a formula? Also, I went down the Agility/Int line on KoS AA's and when with an assortment of AA's with EoF. Any recommendations? I have tried to ask around with other monks on our server but get such a diverse answer betrween them it just confused me more. Any help would be awesome.

 

FYI I do play on a PvP Server but it is not my priority.

 

Thanks,

 

Punt 56 Monk on Venekor

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Item hastes do not stack.  You can have one item based haste, be it from a cloak, FBSS, amulet, weapon.  If it is a weapon or item PROC on attack, that WILL stack because it counts as a spell.  Also, adornment hastes stack without counting as item haste.Spell hastes of different types stack as well.  Our stance, HP drain and group haste buffs will stack with troubador or illusionist haste buffs, so if you need more attack speed look into those to group with.As for PVP AAs, I haven't heard much but what I have heard is a lot of people go with the end ability for stamina or intelligence.  I don't play PVP so there are better people to ask and better threads for that on the forums if you flip back a few pages

[Harpax]

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psubullet wrote:

Also, adornment hastes stack without counting as item haste.

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Has that been fixed?  Two days after EoF launched I tested this out and it was not the case:

Example, weapon adorned with +2 haste (was a low level test) + T6 rare cloak with 10 haste on it = +10 haste (not +12)

[psubull]

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Harpax wrote:

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psubullet wrote:

Also, adornment hastes stack without counting as item haste.

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Has that been fixed?  Two days after EoF launched I tested this out and it was not the case:

Example, weapon adorned with +2 haste (was a low level test) + T6 rare cloak with 10 haste on it = +10 haste (not +12)

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I should've added in that the 2h weapon adornment for +haste will count as an item haste, not as an adornment haste.  Hopefully it will be fixed before next expansion!

[Ramius613]

Thanks Thunder That helps a lot

 

[TheHidden]

Hye guys. Im a level 70 Wanna be raid monk. im as well geared out as im going to get wihtout raiding labs etc a whole lot.
im only pushing 400 str (though with the next few upgrades i will be at about 430 str. ) my problem has been lack of cash flow. but im EXtremely interested in hooking up that dps. and trying to get groups to get deathtoll access and mark of awakening up. but with only 43 aa atm. im a bit lagging in the dps department.

those tips were great! thankyou. what im wondering is if any of you can point me to a dps parser of some kind. because i really have no idea what i parse atm. i self haste at 125 with the burning fire line. currently have 2x1.4 weapons equipped (mainly for the stats. dragonhide fistwraps with 20str 20sta 20agi x2 ) this was a cheap and quick way to upgrade my sta. if item haste stacks i guess i can get that new heritage robe? as well as the deathtoll access neck slot item. putting a dps mod on that should help a lot.

but really without the additional raid gear i dont know what i can do. ive been away for 7 moths form the game and just got back in. started my own guild since i no longer had one. and i really need to find more europeans to play with (starting raids at 2am just kinda sucked.)

please point me to a dps parser i love my monk and want to be able to proove that we can dps. ive been overlooked so many times for other classes in raid im just annoyed. MT tanking would have been awesome to on a raid. but that part i know im not ready for without a full set of raiding gear!

 

GO MONKS!

 

[Cirth_Beer]

Nice writeup Thunder, thanks for the sharing

[Gandelff]

Hey Thundersmasher would you beable to post a screenie of you hotbars set up or list how that are set up to max the dps =).

[Wiga]

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psubullet wrote:

• Monks, with such a large set of self haste, are able to bypass the idea of needing 57 DR weapons.  Example:  Scepter of Destruction has a 61.8 rating.  The damage is 19-56 and the delay is 1.2 second.  Hardshell Sharpened Baton is 56.7 rating.  Damage is 21-120, delay is 2.5 seconds.  Hasted properly, the baton is a superior weapon, and very easily obtained in comparison to the scepter.  The same is true with the Fists of Bashing.

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sorry but I don't understand this part.It should be true if there was a cap in the delay of weapon auto attack (like a 1.0s delay cap) but devs said there wasn't. Then how come it is possible ?and sorry for the bad english.:smileysad:

[Kainsei]

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Wiganz wrote:

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psubullet wrote:

• Monks, with such a large set of self haste, are able to bypass the idea of needing 57 DR weapons.  Example:  Scepter of Destruction has a 61.8 rating.  The damage is 19-56 and the delay is 1.2 second.  Hardshell Sharpened Baton is 56.7 rating.  Damage is 21-120, delay is 2.5 seconds.  Hasted properly, the baton is a superior weapon, and very easily obtained in comparison to the scepter.  The same is true with the Fists of Bashing.

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sorry but I don't understand this part.It should be true if there was a cap in the delay of weapon auto attack (like a 1.0s delay cap) but devs said there wasn't. Then how come it is possible ?and sorry for the bad english.:smileysad:

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I think that since the baton has a higher delay, it's easier to time your CAs between each autoattack, that means no loss in autoattack.Btw, razor gauntlets from MMIS (not sure about that...) have a 2,5 sec delay and 63ish DR. Maybe it's better to use fist of bashing + razor gauntlets, instead of the hardshell baton.(Off-topic, are you the same wiganz from J0L ? :smileyhappy: )

[Wiga]

Hum, maybe I should give it a try then...I'm using the Scepter of destruction and the "greater" Calamity right now.(yeah it's me ^^)

[Karamonde]

nice post

[wushupork]

Awesome post on behalf of psubullet.

 

Just to clarify that they have changed the behavior of the adornments so those +10dps Neck adorn you add to multiple slot items will now force that item to be neck only (Amulet of Forsworn would not be wrist equippable, etc.) They're going to be removing those adornments and dumping them into overflow when that is patched in.

[Wiga]

about Kos AA :what do you think of :for : 5wis : 4/4/8/4/1int : 4/4/8?

[Kainsei]

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Wiganz wrote:

about Kos AA :what do you think of :for str : 5wis : 4/4/8/4/1int : 4/4/8?

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Fixed it for ya. :smileytongue:Anyone knows if having Crane twirl every 5 min is worth losing mantis bolt ?

[Deathspell]

What do you guys think of: STA 4/4/4 WIS 4/4/4/4/8 INT 4/4/5 or STA 4/4/8 WIS 4/4/8 INT 4/4/8 Is getting Crane Flock at the end of the WIS line worth sacrificing less points in Mantis Bolt(% piercing), Crane Twirl(AE melee) and Eagle's Fury(incr crit)?

[MageChild]

Deathspell wrote:

What do you guys think of: STA 4/4/4 WIS 4/4/4/4/8 INT 4/4/5 or STA 4/4/8 WIS 4/4/8 INT 4/4/8 Is getting Crane Flock at the end of the WIS line worth sacrificing less points in Mantis Bolt(% piercing), Crane Twirl(AE melee) and Eagle's Fury(incr crit)?

 The question is, is the unrestrained AOE (not encounter) damage what you want, or are you just looking for damage?  Those are some hefty points to spend on an ability that is situational at best.  But that is just my opinion.

[Goozman]

On my monk I went STA 4 4 8; WIS 4 4 8 4 1 for the procs and Crane Flock

Crane Flock is completely awesome, when I started using it on 64, I'd get 1400+ dps nearly every use (so long as there were 3+ mobs). I haven't tried crits instead so I really have no comparison; however I was also wondering why nobody ever takes this aa?

For raids, it seems to me like Crane Flock would be good because 5 minute recast isn't all that long in raids (especially with jester's cap lolz) and would get your dps extremely high and therefore increasing your [Removed for Content]on plenty of fights in a raid.

Has anyone tried a setup like this as well as crits and have numbers to compare?