Question for you tanking monks regarding HoF

wesbarlow · 07-01-2006, 10:33 PM

I'm proud to say that i almost successfully tanked HoF the other day with my monk for hat and moa updates. I've heard a lot of monks say it was impossible or extremely difficult. We managed to clear the entire zone except for the frankensein droag on the table and doom lord septmus. we didn't have a lot of time that night so we only tried the table named once then had to move on. I'd be completely wrong if i posted here without giving credit to the 2 healers. I think in HoF there's more responsibility on the healers then there really is on the tanking. we went through the entire zone without a single group wipe from debilitate except for thsoe 2 named. was wondering if anyone had any advice on those 2 mobs. i know a lot of people use ranged nukers/rooters to just solo the table named and everyone else is just support but it was way too late in the evening for that stuff since it takes like an hour. obviously both named kick and hit like a truck. our stretegy for the table named was for me to just hold aggro and root myself in a corner and the 2 healers were switching off on cure traumas and heals. when one healers heals were all down he would swich to spam cure trauma the other healer would swich from cure trauma to heals. for doom lord septmus we had a hard time and eventually gave up because of everyone having to work in the morning. i think ultimately our strategy there would've been to tank him as long as possible then have a player room him and backoff for a few while recharge timers came back up. just lookin for monk tanking related strategies that i might not have thought about with these 2 mobs that aren't related to a class specific group. our group that night was 2 x 70 monks, 1 warden, 1 fury, 1 necro, 1 illusionist. overall we did a lot better then i thought we would due to horror stories i'd heard on the forums about monks tanking that zone so give it a shot those of you who have been holding out....just have a couple good healers

ToejaM t · 07-02-2006, 12:32 AM

Can't say I've tanked much of HoF and not tried any nameds but our avoidance makes up for the lack of mitgation in there especially since the debuff is something like 4.1k mit debuff? Well with taking hardly any hits was plenty of time to get cured. We left though to go pvp after about 10mins in there.Usually with the table named when I've been there with a plate tank (Zerker).. I'll pull with tsunami / ward and we'll dps untill my tsunami is about to die, then the plate tank rescues off me. If the plate tank drops, I'll rescue it back and we'll just try to dps asap. The best way to kill him is to dps as fast as possible. Its easily possible with two monks in a group, just use the tactic we've used or pull with a pet but thats a bit sketchy. Keep the taunts up on the second tank and its pretty easy. Last named dies quite easy with a plate tank.Usually we have just a Templar with us due to slack population on Darathar but if we have another healer its 9/10 times a Fury and the other 1/10 times its a Mystic. Easily able to do the whole zone with one healer though.I think a key to that zone is the Monk heal being so much quicker to cast than the other healers. Carrying healing potions is also very helpful along with trauma remove incase the healer forgets for some reason.The hardest mob in there was the centurions? or what ever mob it was that seemed to keep hitting me for a good 4.4k damage every 60seconds, other than that it was a walk over SMILEY

Wildfury77 · 07-03-2006, 06:29 AM

Just did HoF - cleared zone including "Frankie" with a 70 Monk as MT----> saying that i know 1 swashie thats tanked that zone - a ridiulously equipped one with 2 ridiculously good healers admittedly.I prefer doing HoF with Monk or Bruiser tank and lots of scout DPS. But then i'm a biased swashie who favours Brawlers and Zerkers for their attack buffs!!!Our group was1)70 Monk2)70 Ranger3)70 Swashie4)70 Swashie5)70 Inquisitor6)70 MysticRock solid combo....Frankie didn't know what hit him.

eyes007 · 07-03-2006, 07:56 AM

Problem is, a group with a Guardian can do it with less people, take last night for instance, they took me in to get my Hat updates which were all successful:

Monk 67 (I dinged 68 right at the end with a trash mob)

Guardian 70

Inquisitor 70

Berserker 70

We went all the way up to Sothis which then required us to get some dps, a Brigand 70 for 2 Named fights (Sothis and Frankie). I get the feeling if I was 70, Sothis wouldn't have been as much of a problem (as it was orange to me at 67), but I find it interesting 3 tanks and an inquisitor can do that zone fairly well (sure the mobs were pretty tough but no way were we in any danger).

Wildfury77 · 07-03-2006, 10:32 AM

"The problem is a guardian can do it with less people" - What?? u post this statement then say that you didn't actually finish the zone.....(as opposed to the Monk led group i talked about that ripped through the zone.....and whats your point?)Monks and bruisers are ideal for the six man instance group, especially if scout heavy - in fact i reckon if u removed 1 off the healers and added a Dirge then you would have near melee perfection (Monk,Dirge,Swashiex2,Ranger,and Defiler for example). If you kill VERY fast then why do you need a guard....have u seen what happens when Monk haste/swashie inspiration and Dirge CoB go off together? byebye Sothis.Oh and if you lose agro cos of the swashie burst dmg they can instantly point it back at you - "reverse rescue" and in addition a 27% hate transfer to u is always up. A swashie also doesn't die if the monk loses agro briefly unlike a caster.

Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-2006 05:28 AM

Wildfury77 · 07-03-2006, 04:31 PM

In reply to original poster - you struggled with doom lord and frankie because of lack of DPS imho. Ditch the 2nd Monk and maybe the illusionist and add in raw burst DPS scouts. I'm not anti-mage but a swashie/ranger/brigand/assassin - will survive if they briefly pull agro and can tear down a MOB. It makes tanking+healing easier if u KILL twice as fast.After thought - original question was for "tanking monks" - like thats something unusual!! LoL SMILEY

Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-2006 06:33 AM

Malad · 07-03-2006, 06:51 PM

I have to agree I think the key to those fights is raw dps you did not have.

For example last time I did that run we had 1 tank (70 gaurdian),1 healer (67 templar), and 4 dps in form of me Brigand (67 ish at time),70 ranger, 70 wizard, 70 warlock.

The templar had no trouble at all keeping the tank alive as nothing lived long at all. Even Sothis we had killed and looted before his slow moving helpers could join in on the fight.

In another time down we killed the Doomlord with only a paladin for a healer. Granted I was the only person to live but a Paladin, Zerker, Assasin, Brigand, dirge, and some mage class forget who it was took him on and where able to do it if barely. Not saying this is way to go but to me really proves the key to this zone isn't 2 healers but instead a lot of dps and a1 good tank and 1 good healer.

wesbarlow · 07-03-2006, 08:38 PM

Update: Just cleared HoF last night with one nasty dps group. Took in 1 monk, 1 assassin, 1 fury, 1 templar, 1 brigand, 1 swashy and completely layed waste to the zone including doom lord septimus and the table named. with this type of group it wasn't even a challenge. i had to throw down tsunami on sothis because of my own stupidity but i easily could have tanked him without it. we cleared the table named and doom lord and i didn't even have to use tsunami/outward calm. thx for all the input guys. i have to admit though, there's nothin better then puttin together a pickup group for that place and grabbin a healer that says "never seen a monk tank this place" and we clear the zone.

wesbarlow · 07-03-2006, 08:42 PM

Wildfury77 wrote:

After thought - original question was for "tanking monks" - like thats something unusual!! LoL

Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-2006 06:33 AM

i swear there's not many out there. seems most of them are about dps. i prefer both myself

Griffona · 07-03-2006, 09:00 PM

wesbarlow wrote:
Update: Just cleared HoF last night with one nasty dps group. Took in 1 monk, 1 assassin, 1 fury, 1 templar, 1 brigand, 1 swashy and completely layed waste to the zone

I was the assassin....and "layed waste" is no understatement. It was my first trip to HoF, with all I had read I was expecting a very different evening....it turned out to be more sight-seeing than a challenge...still can't get over how cool that zone is.Anyway, the other posters seem to have it right...with high DPS, and 2 good healers it wasn't difficult at all. I'm actually wondering if more dps was added we could have gotten away with 1 healer. /shrug It was soo much fun.....the only way it could have been better is if we had gotten something other than Caster Only drops.Cassandri 68 AssassinEverfrost

Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:00 AM

Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:01 AM

wesbarlow · 07-03-2006, 09:09 PM

Griffonage wrote:

Anyway, the other posters seem to have it right...with high DPS, and 2 good healers it wasn't difficult at all. I'm actually wondering if more dps was added we could have gotten away with 1 healer. /shrug It was soo much fun.....the only way it could have been better is if we had gotten something other than Caster Only drops.

Cassandri
68 Assassin
Everfrost

Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:00 AM

Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:01 AM

dude, we're gonna try it with 1 healer just for the hell of it. the loot drops sucked in there last night. i want my [Removed for Content] endbringer leggings!

Griffona · 07-04-2006, 12:32 AM

wesbarlow wrote:dude, we're gonna try it with 1 healer just for the hell of it. the loot drops sucked in there last night. i want my [Removed for Content] endbringer leggings!

I'm in, replace a healer with raw dps or maybe a util class...either way it will be harder, but after last night, i thinks it doable.

Wildfury77 · 07-04-2006, 01:33 AM

To do with one healer i would recommend a melee DPS heavy group......with a DIRGE......u will notice a massive boost.

Sslarrga · 07-04-2006, 11:28 AM

I've tanked it with 1 healer before. And I've gone in with guardian/zerker/pally tanking (no real SKs in our guild).

It's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster and easier when there is a guardian/zerker/pally tanking than when I'm tanking. This is generally speaking when I'm tank buffed having around 81-82% avoidance and about 4k mitigation.

Even then. There's some places where it can get a little hairy with me tanking. With a mit tank in the same group with 1 healer? Doesn't even break a sweat.

Then again HoF isn't even remotely as hard as it used to be other than 1 or 2 mobs.

The new City of the Niaids however. Now that's a fun zone. Again quite significantly easier with a plate tank than an avoidance tank. I'm not even sure the last mob is possible without a mitigation tank. First few times I did it, I decided to be the tank. Cleared everything except for the Mistress and the x2/x4. Just wasn't able to do those. Took a guardian the next time and blam. Piece of cake. Think we only wiped twice. Once on the mistress. And once on a bad pull.

Bleh.

Regards,

Croaker

Griffona · 07-04-2006, 11:02 PM

Sslarrga wrote:
I've tanked it with 1 healer before. And I've gone in with guardian/zerker/pally tanking (no real SKs in our guild).

It's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster and easier when there is a guardian/zerker/pally tanking than when I'm tanking. This is generally speaking when I'm tank buffed having around 81-82% avoidance and about 4k mitigation.

I have to disagree completely with your opinion and challenge your experiences. (I know who you are and what gear you wear so i'm rather shocked by your opinion croaker) I mainly disagree because it doesn't make any logical sense and my experience in HoF was quite differentFor starters Smoke had NO trouble handling the damage dished out by ANY encounter in the zone. With that in mind, I don't see how you can contend that Replacing a high DPS Tank with a low DPS plate tank will make the trip "MUCH x 6" times faster. We simply were not slowed down by some supposed monk "inferiority".I pulled out the parser and examined that run, Sothis lasted 29 seconds, doom Lord 23 seconds....Centurion fights lasted from 11-14 seconds with nil recovery time. I don't see much room for improvement here, however I'm sure when I hit 70 and get decapitate both encounters will last 2-3 seconds less. :smileywink:

RogueSpideyChick · 07-05-2006, 01:38 AM

we've done hof a BUNCH of times with a monk tankin. we had a serker with us too, but the monk preferred to tank cause he wanted to work on his skills. the group was usually70 monk (the tank)70 fury (me)70 serker68 coecer& then whoever else was on at the time, usually either a scout or a casterwe always did pretty good. wiped coupla times durin frankie for the first coupla times we went in there, but after i figured out a technique for healin him & he figured somethin out on how to tank on that mob, we were fine.

Message Edited by RogueSpideyChick on 07-04-2006 02:38 PM

Sslarrga · 07-06-2006, 02:48 AM

DPS isn't an issue. Doesn't really matter which guildies we bring things die pretty fast. It still doesn't change the fact that with either a guardian (clink), a zerker (rylon, harokin, or even valiman [our backup to our backup zerkers]), or a pally (banelion) it goes quite a bit faster and smoother.

At this point, Clink gets so bored with the zone he usually pulls 3-4 centurions at a time just to keep the healers on their toes.

Assuming we aren't using a fury and I'm the only one with Agitate, our zerkers can out DPS me, and Clink could do roughly the same DPS (before he respec'd away from the buckler line and before I respec'd to a more tanking friendly setup). This is DPS when being the MT of the group.

Bring along Michael (our bruiser) and not only does he tank HoF better but does more DPS along the way.

Noone, least of all me, is saying we can't do HoF. A brigand or swashy can tank HoF just fine. I no longer view HoF has a true measuring stick. But that's mostly because the level of gear I have now makes it a relative cake walk now.

With that said, what's his face that you spawn on the table. He can still give some problems and still has a good chance to kill me if the healer isn't paying attention. Throw any of our mitigation tanks in though and our healer could be taking a nap and they still wouldn't have much chance of dying. Half the time when one of them is tanking, TS goes something like this. "blah blah blah, joke, laughing, blah blah...Oh hey, is my health going down? (healer) Oh yeah I should probably throw in a heal." When it's me in the same situation. Healer usually goes, "Oh yeah, I should probably heal." after I'm dead. SMILEY

Meh, enough whining. It hasn't gotten so bad yet that I'll be betraying over to Bruiser. But I do think about it every day. Especially having played a level 70 Bruiser.

Regards,

Croaker

Message Edited by Sslarrga on 07-05-2006 03:52 PM

eyes007 · 07-06-2006, 02:51 AM

I said:

Problem is, a group with a Guardian can do it with less people, take last night for instance, they took me in to get my Hat updates which were all successful:

Monk 67 (I dinged 68 right at the end with a trash mob)

Guardian 70

Inquisitor 70

Berserker 70

We went all the way up to Sothis which then required us to get some dps, a Brigand 70 for 2 Named fights (Sothis and Frankie). I get the feeling if I was 70, Sothis wouldn't have been as much of a problem (as it was orange to me at 67), but I find it interesting 3 tanks and an inquisitor can do that zone fairly well (sure the mobs were pretty tough but no way were we in any danger).

Wildfury77 wrote:
"The problem is a guardian can do it with less people" - What?? u post this statement then say that you didn't actually finish the zone.....(as opposed to the Monk led group i talked about that ripped through the zone.....and whats your point?)

Monks and bruisers are ideal for the six man instance group, especially if scout heavy - in fact i reckon if u removed 1 off the healers and added a Dirge then you would have near melee perfection (Monk,Dirge,Swashiex2,Ranger,and Defiler for example). If you kill VERY fast then why do you need a guard....have u seen what happens when Monk haste/swashie inspiration and Dirge CoB go off together? byebye Sothis.

Oh and if you lose agro cos of the swashie burst dmg they can instantly point it back at you - "reverse rescue" and in addition a 27% hate transfer to u is always up. A swashie also doesn't die if the monk loses agro briefly unlike a caster.

Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-200605:28 AM

Hey unless u can read something I don't see, where do I say "I didn't finish the zone?" I said we had to bring in a BRIGAND to finish the last 2 named and I did say we were SUCCESSFUL...

My point is that with a Guardian, we can use pratically anything, I mean 3 TANKS and 1 HEALER and 1 of those tanks lvl67. It's not a knockback about monks, it's just facts. The INTERESTING thing I find is people always knock tanks for not being DPS, we may not be uber-dps like casters or scouts, but we hold our own np (but raids of course are a whole different arena)

wesbarlow · 07-06-2006, 10:27 AM

Hey unless u can read something I don't see, where do I say "I didn't finish the zone?" I said we had to bring in a BRIGAND to finish the last 2 named and I did say we were SUCCESSFUL...

My point is that with a Guardian, we can use pratically anything, I mean 3 TANKS and 1 HEALER and 1 of those tanks lvl67. It's not a knockback about monks, it's just facts. The INTERESTING thing I find is people always knock tanks for not being DPS, we may not be uber-dps like casters or scouts, but we hold our own np (but raids of course are a whole different arena)

think he was implying from your post that you didn't take out the last guy (meaning the doom lord after sothis)

wesbarlow · 07-06-2006, 10:35 AM

Sslarrga wrote:

I've tanked it with 1 healer before. And I've gone in with guardian/zerker/pally tanking (no real SKs in our guild).

It's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster and easier when there is a guardian/zerker/pally tanking than when I'm tanking. This is generally speaking when I'm tank buffed having around 81-82% avoidance and about 4k mitigation.

Even then. There's some places where it can get a little hairy with me tanking. With a mit tank in the same group with 1 healer? Doesn't even break a sweat.

Then again HoF isn't even remotely as hard as it used to be other than 1 or 2 mobs.

The new City of the Niaids however. Now that's a fun zone. Again quite significantly easier with a plate tank than an avoidance tank. I'm not even sure the last mob is possible without a mitigation tank. First few times I did it, I decided to be the tank. Cleared everything except for the Mistress and the x2/x4. Just wasn't able to do those. Took a guardian the next time and blam. Piece of cake. Think we only wiped twice. Once on the mistress. And once on a bad pull.

Bleh.

Regards,

Croaker

from tanking this zone to finish a couple times with my monk now i dont notice debilitate being dropped on me and i'm not sure if its that the healers i have are johnny-on-the-spot with the trauma cure or if it's the fact that soe has nerfed the inc dps and/or debuffs of the mobs. originally the first run through i was thinking it was the healers or possibly the fact that once i'm debuffed by debilitate my avoidance helps keep me alive long enough for a cure. so from what you're saying croaker is that you've noticed the zone is easier now or is just the fact that we're all getting used to it or upgraded gear or what? i'm guessing it's not gear because the small mitigation/avoidance difference from tier 6-7 isn't enough to counter a 4k mit debuff from my point of view (it probably helps the plate tanks out but not leather tanks)

Random_Rolle · 07-06-2006, 05:00 PM

This zone is very easy for plate tanks as well. I am a 70 pally and tanked this many times. Only problem ever is the frankie monster who tends to twoshot me but any rooting class can help that (cause can only do it once, revive and rebuff then kill before it has recharged its debuff).The group i did it with last was a an awesome melee group.Pally 70Wizard 70Templar 70Dirge 70Swashy 70Ranger 67The dirge buffs, especially Cacaphony of Blades is the key, during those 12s no named can do anything with 3+ melee cause of the interupts. Only reason i died on frankie was cuase he did 7kx2 damage during first 3s of fight.Any good healer can soloheal this instance with a pally, that should suggest that any plate tank would work. I have a monk myself and honestly i would be afraid to try and tank this when solohealed, currently only 65 so wont try until at least 69 but one bad hit after debuff, unless the healer is fast enough on cure (and can be hard for those with slow casting heals) is a one shot, or is that a not correct?-5k mitigation would allow the frankie to hit for around 10k+. If he hits ofcourse, but i dont wanna do so much lottery tanking.But from my point of view playing both, what monks lack in general (not HoF) is not tanking ability but taunting.AoE taunting is very hard if more then one encounter, and as a pally i regulrarly pull 2-3 encounters even in HoF to speed things up. Is it possible to hold aggro on 2+ encounters with monk? and how. (Planning in wis line for that reason).

eyes007 · 07-07-2006, 03:15 AM

wesbarlow wrote:

Hey unless u can read something I don't see, where do I say "I didn't finish the zone?" I said we had to bring in a BRIGAND to finish the last 2 named and I did say we were SUCCESSFUL...

My point is that with a Guardian, we can use pratically anything, I mean 3 TANKS and 1 HEALER and 1 of those tanks lvl67. It's not a knockback about monks, it's just facts. The INTERESTING thing I find is people always knock tanks for not being DPS, we may not be uber-dps like casters or scouts, but we hold our own np (but raids of course are a whole different arena)

think he was implying from your post that you didn't take out the last guy (meaning the doom lord after sothis)

thanks Smoke, I should of clarified those were the last 2 Named we did WITH dps, Doom Lord we killed without the Brigand, we cleared the whole zone, even the few trash mobs we had missed on our way down - just to make things clear :smileywink:

Message Edited by eyes007 on 07-07-2006 12:16 PM

Timaarit · 07-07-2006, 06:22 PM

Cleared it with a fury as only healer. Group was me (lvl 70 monk), 70 fury, 70 ranger, 70 swashy, 70 wizard and 70 conjurer. I died twice (no group wipe though), once with the named that pops from the lab table and once with a ^^^ zerker mob, no other deaths in zone.

Message Edited by Timaarit on 07-07-2006 05:22 PM

DarkMirrax · 07-07-2006, 09:27 PM

Take a Coercer and warlock :smileyvery-happy: you can do it a a trio without a healer then lol

root, nuke , charm ftw

DynamicPerforman · 07-08-2006, 01:27 AM

As a non-raiding monk, I have to say that its almost impossible for me to tank HoF all the way through.Partly its my gear, and partly that i can never find a full group of 70's to do it with (65-70 usually, so we're a bit weaker than we should be)I'm not sure if anything has been changed recently, But when i went in there last (1 month ago) I would die in 2 hits from centurions. I even tested it, and with tsunami on, and grouped to increase my avoidence to 76%(woot!) The first thing the centurion would do was an attack that hit me for 5k damage. I was hit through tsunami even. I believe this is because of stun locking (what i heard and experianced) And so mobs need to be able to hit when they can in order to provide a challange. Now that stun locking has become even harder (1.5sec stun? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!!) I assume they are decreasing the "precise hits."Generally speaking, its the only zone I can't tank, and only because of the cents and my gear. I'd have to say you need legendary gear or above to do this zone. Dynamicman out...

wesbarlow · 07-09-2006, 06:38 AM

well they've seriously nerfed this zone down from what it used to be. i hardly ever get debuffed now and i'm not that big of a stud. mostly legendary stuff from the claymore series up through the shoulders. got z-leggings because i can't get the endbringers to drop for crap in that place and some [Removed for Content] on our server wants 30p for the ones he's got. i went through the other day as dps instead of tanking. we had a paly for the mt and we were getting social aggro out the butt from bad pulls left and right and not 1 group wipe. paly went down on frankie but no group wipe. last guy in the zone is still kinda mean and frankie but that's about it. it's no problem in there to pull 2-3 mobs at once and tank them.

Griffona · 07-10-2006, 10:54 PM

wesbarlow wrote:
we had a paly for the mt and we were getting social aggro out the butt from bad pulls left and right and not 1 group wipe. paly went down on frankie

uh...

wesbarlow · 07-11-2006, 07:18 AM

rofl. ok...i'll ya..that didn't sound right

eyes007 · 07-12-2006, 03:34 AM

I'm still trying to get Death Trance off Doom Lord, twice in a row now it's gone to some plate wearing freak (and only because of the 2 earring slot change/rumor). Still, HoF has a good choice of Nameds to kill. I might time our next jaunt in there, been here three nights in a row and it gets quicker each time and we always end up with 4 people lol Still, we get alot of master spells from there.

Harpax · 07-12-2006, 08:17 PM

For the monks who are succesfully tanking HoF, what type of equipment are you all using. My stuff is on the high side of average and i still get beat down in there.

07-01-2006, 10:33 PM	#1
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	I'm proud to say that i almost successfully tanked HoF the other day with my monk for hat and moa updates. I've heard a lot of monks say it was impossible or extremely difficult. We managed to clear the entire zone except for the frankensein droag on the table and doom lord septmus. we didn't have a lot of time that night so we only tried the table named once then had to move on. I'd be completely wrong if i posted here without giving credit to the 2 healers. I think in HoF there's more responsibility on the healers then there really is on the tanking. we went through the entire zone without a single group wipe from debilitate except for thsoe 2 named. was wondering if anyone had any advice on those 2 mobs. i know a lot of people use ranged nukers/rooters to just solo the table named and everyone else is just support but it was way too late in the evening for that stuff since it takes like an hour. obviously both named kick and hit like a truck. our stretegy for the table named was for me to just hold aggro and root myself in a corner and the 2 healers were switching off on cure traumas and heals. when one healers heals were all down he would swich to spam cure trauma the other healer would swich from cure trauma to heals. for doom lord septmus we had a hard time and eventually gave up because of everyone having to work in the morning. i think ultimately our strategy there would've been to tank him as long as possible then have a player room him and backoff for a few while recharge timers came back up. just lookin for monk tanking related strategies that i might not have thought about with these 2 mobs that aren't related to a class specific group. our group that night was 2 x 70 monks, 1 warden, 1 fury, 1 necro, 1 illusionist. overall we did a lot better then i thought we would due to horror stories i'd heard on the forums about monks tanking that zone so give it a shot those of you who have been holding out....just have a couple good healers __________________

07-03-2006, 07:56 AM	#4
eyes007 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 242	Problem is, a group with a Guardian can do it with less people, take last night for instance, they took me in to get my Hat updates which were all successful: Monk 67 (I dinged 68 right at the end with a trash mob) Guardian 70 Inquisitor 70 Berserker 70 We went all the way up to Sothis which then required us to get some dps, a Brigand 70 for 2 Named fights (Sothis and Frankie). I get the feeling if I was 70, Sothis wouldn't have been as much of a problem (as it was orange to me at 67), but I find it interesting 3 tanks and an inquisitor can do that zone fairly well (sure the mobs were pretty tough but no way were we in any danger). __________________

07-03-2006, 04:31 PM	#6
Wildfury77 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 683	In reply to original poster - you struggled with doom lord and frankie because of lack of DPS imho. Ditch the 2nd Monk and maybe the illusionist and add in raw burst DPS scouts. I'm not anti-mage but a swashie/ranger/brigand/assassin - will survive if they briefly pull agro and can tear down a MOB. It makes tanking+healing easier if u KILL twice as fast.After thought - original question was for "tanking monks" - like thats something unusual!! LoL Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-2006 06:33 AM

07-03-2006, 06:51 PM	#7
Malad Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62	I have to agree I think the key to those fights is raw dps you did not have. For example last time I did that run we had 1 tank (70 gaurdian),1 healer (67 templar), and 4 dps in form of me Brigand (67 ish at time),70 ranger, 70 wizard, 70 warlock. The templar had no trouble at all keeping the tank alive as nothing lived long at all. Even Sothis we had killed and looted before his slow moving helpers could join in on the fight. In another time down we killed the Doomlord with only a paladin for a healer. Granted I was the only person to live but a Paladin, Zerker, Assasin, Brigand, dirge, and some mage class forget who it was took him on and where able to do it if barely. Not saying this is way to go but to me really proves the key to this zone isn't 2 healers but instead a lot of dps and a1 good tank and 1 good healer. __________________ Fiin, The Barbarian Paladin - Oasis Server Maladen D'Bale, Brigand - Oasis Server Darel, Ratonga Bruiser - Nagafen Server

07-03-2006, 08:38 PM	#8
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Update: Just cleared HoF last night with one nasty dps group. Took in 1 monk, 1 assassin, 1 fury, 1 templar, 1 brigand, 1 swashy and completely layed waste to the zone including doom lord septimus and the table named. with this type of group it wasn't even a challenge. i had to throw down tsunami on sothis because of my own stupidity but i easily could have tanked him without it. we cleared the table named and doom lord and i didn't even have to use tsunami/outward calm. thx for all the input guys. i have to admit though, there's nothin better then puttin together a pickup group for that place and grabbin a healer that says "never seen a monk tank this place" and we clear the zone. __________________

07-02-2006, 12:32 AM	#2
ToejaM t General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 121	Can't say I've tanked much of HoF and not tried any nameds but our avoidance makes up for the lack of mitgation in there especially since the debuff is something like 4.1k mit debuff? Well with taking hardly any hits was plenty of time to get cured. We left though to go pvp after about 10mins in there.Usually with the table named when I've been there with a plate tank (Zerker).. I'll pull with tsunami / ward and we'll dps untill my tsunami is about to die, then the plate tank rescues off me. If the plate tank drops, I'll rescue it back and we'll just try to dps asap. The best way to kill him is to dps as fast as possible. Its easily possible with two monks in a group, just use the tactic we've used or pull with a pet but thats a bit sketchy. Keep the taunts up on the second tank and its pretty easy. Last named dies quite easy with a plate tank.Usually we have just a Templar with us due to slack population on Darathar but if we have another healer its 9/10 times a Fury and the other 1/10 times its a Mystic. Easily able to do the whole zone with one healer though.I think a key to that zone is the Monk heal being so much quicker to cast than the other healers. Carrying healing potions is also very helpful along with trauma remove incase the healer forgets for some reason.The hardest mob in there was the centurions? or what ever mob it was that seemed to keep hitting me for a good 4.4k damage every 60seconds, other than that it was a walk over

07-03-2006, 06:29 AM	#3
Wildfury77 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 683	Just did HoF - cleared zone including "Frankie" with a 70 Monk as MT----> saying that i know 1 swashie thats tanked that zone - a ridiulously equipped one with 2 ridiculously good healers admittedly.I prefer doing HoF with Monk or Bruiser tank and lots of scout DPS. But then i'm a biased swashie who favours Brawlers and Zerkers for their attack buffs!!!Our group was1)70 Monk2)70 Ranger3)70 Swashie4)70 Swashie5)70 Inquisitor6)70 MysticRock solid combo....Frankie didn't know what hit him.

07-03-2006, 10:32 AM	#5
Wildfury77 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 683	"The problem is a guardian can do it with less people" - What?? u post this statement then say that you didn't actually finish the zone.....(as opposed to the Monk led group i talked about that ripped through the zone.....and whats your point?)Monks and bruisers are ideal for the six man instance group, especially if scout heavy - in fact i reckon if u removed 1 off the healers and added a Dirge then you would have near melee perfection (Monk,Dirge,Swashiex2,Ranger,and Defiler for example). If you kill VERY fast then why do you need a guard....have u seen what happens when Monk haste/swashie inspiration and Dirge CoB go off together? byebye Sothis.Oh and if you lose agro cos of the swashie burst dmg they can instantly point it back at you - "reverse rescue" and in addition a 27% hate transfer to u is always up. A swashie also doesn't die if the monk loses agro briefly unlike a caster. Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-2006 05:28 AM

07-03-2006, 08:42 PM	#9
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Wildfury77 wrote: After thought - original question was for "tanking monks" - like thats something unusual!! LoL Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-2006 06:33 AM i swear there's not many out there. seems most of them are about dps. i prefer both myself __________________

07-03-2006, 09:00 PM	#10
Griffona General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 126	wesbarlow wrote: Update: Just cleared HoF last night with one nasty dps group. Took in 1 monk, 1 assassin, 1 fury, 1 templar, 1 brigand, 1 swashy and completely layed waste to the zone I was the assassin....and "layed waste" is no understatement. It was my first trip to HoF, with all I had read I was expecting a very different evening....it turned out to be more sight-seeing than a challenge...still can't get over how cool that zone is.Anyway, the other posters seem to have it right...with high DPS, and 2 good healers it wasn't difficult at all. I'm actually wondering if more dps was added we could have gotten away with 1 healer. /shrug It was soo much fun.....the only way it could have been better is if we had gotten something other than Caster Only drops.Cassandri 68 AssassinEverfrost Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:00 AM Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:01 AM __________________

07-03-2006, 09:09 PM	#11
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Griffonage wrote: Anyway, the other posters seem to have it right...with high DPS, and 2 good healers it wasn't difficult at all. I'm actually wondering if more dps was added we could have gotten away with 1 healer. /shrug It was soo much fun.....the only way it could have been better is if we had gotten something other than Caster Only drops. Cassandri 68 Assassin Everfrost Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:00 AM Message Edited by Griffonage on 07-03-2006 10:01 AM dude, we're gonna try it with 1 healer just for the hell of it. the loot drops sucked in there last night. i want my [Removed for Content] endbringer leggings! __________________

07-04-2006, 12:32 AM	#12
Griffona General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 126	wesbarlow wrote:dude, we're gonna try it with 1 healer just for the hell of it. the loot drops sucked in there last night. i want my [Removed for Content] endbringer leggings! I'm in, replace a healer with raw dps or maybe a util class...either way it will be harder, but after last night, i thinks it doable. __________________

07-04-2006, 01:33 AM	#13
Wildfury77 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 683	To do with one healer i would recommend a melee DPS heavy group......with a DIRGE......u will notice a massive boost.

07-04-2006, 11:28 AM	#14
Sslarrga Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 188	I've tanked it with 1 healer before. And I've gone in with guardian/zerker/pally tanking (no real SKs in our guild). It's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster and easier when there is a guardian/zerker/pally tanking than when I'm tanking. This is generally speaking when I'm tank buffed having around 81-82% avoidance and about 4k mitigation. Even then. There's some places where it can get a little hairy with me tanking. With a mit tank in the same group with 1 healer? Doesn't even break a sweat. Then again HoF isn't even remotely as hard as it used to be other than 1 or 2 mobs. The new City of the Niaids however. Now that's a fun zone. Again quite significantly easier with a plate tank than an avoidance tank. I'm not even sure the last mob is possible without a mitigation tank. First few times I did it, I decided to be the tank. Cleared everything except for the Mistress and the x2/x4. Just wasn't able to do those. Took a guardian the next time and blam. Piece of cake. Think we only wiped twice. Once on the mistress. And once on a bad pull. Bleh. Regards, Croaker

07-04-2006, 11:02 PM	#15
Griffona General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 126	Sslarrga wrote: I've tanked it with 1 healer before. And I've gone in with guardian/zerker/pally tanking (no real SKs in our guild). It's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster and easier when there is a guardian/zerker/pally tanking than when I'm tanking. This is generally speaking when I'm tank buffed having around 81-82% avoidance and about 4k mitigation. I have to disagree completely with your opinion and challenge your experiences. (I know who you are and what gear you wear so i'm rather shocked by your opinion croaker) I mainly disagree because it doesn't make any logical sense and my experience in HoF was quite differentFor starters Smoke had NO trouble handling the damage dished out by ANY encounter in the zone. With that in mind, I don't see how you can contend that Replacing a high DPS Tank with a low DPS plate tank will make the trip "MUCH x 6" times faster. We simply were not slowed down by some supposed monk "inferiority".I pulled out the parser and examined that run, Sothis lasted 29 seconds, doom Lord 23 seconds....Centurion fights lasted from 11-14 seconds with nil recovery time. I don't see much room for improvement here, however I'm sure when I hit 70 and get decapitate both encounters will last 2-3 seconds less. :smileywink: __________________

07-05-2006, 01:38 AM	#16
RogueSpideyChick Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Washington, PA Posts: 534	we've done hof a BUNCH of times with a monk tankin. we had a serker with us too, but the monk preferred to tank cause he wanted to work on his skills. the group was usually70 monk (the tank)70 fury (me)70 serker68 coecer& then whoever else was on at the time, usually either a scout or a casterwe always did pretty good. wiped coupla times durin frankie for the first coupla times we went in there, but after i figured out a technique for healin him & he figured somethin out on how to tank on that mob, we were fine. Message Edited by RogueSpideyChick on 07-04-2006 02:38 PM

07-06-2006, 02:48 AM	#17
Sslarrga Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 188	DPS isn't an issue. Doesn't really matter which guildies we bring things die pretty fast. It still doesn't change the fact that with either a guardian (clink), a zerker (rylon, harokin, or even valiman [our backup to our backup zerkers]), or a pally (banelion) it goes quite a bit faster and smoother. At this point, Clink gets so bored with the zone he usually pulls 3-4 centurions at a time just to keep the healers on their toes. Assuming we aren't using a fury and I'm the only one with Agitate, our zerkers can out DPS me, and Clink could do roughly the same DPS (before he respec'd away from the buckler line and before I respec'd to a more tanking friendly setup). This is DPS when being the MT of the group. Bring along Michael (our bruiser) and not only does he tank HoF better but does more DPS along the way. Noone, least of all me, is saying we can't do HoF. A brigand or swashy can tank HoF just fine. I no longer view HoF has a true measuring stick. But that's mostly because the level of gear I have now makes it a relative cake walk now. With that said, what's his face that you spawn on the table. He can still give some problems and still has a good chance to kill me if the healer isn't paying attention. Throw any of our mitigation tanks in though and our healer could be taking a nap and they still wouldn't have much chance of dying. Half the time when one of them is tanking, TS goes something like this. "blah blah blah, joke, laughing, blah blah...Oh hey, is my health going down? (healer) Oh yeah I should probably throw in a heal." When it's me in the same situation. Healer usually goes, "Oh yeah, I should probably heal." after I'm dead. Meh, enough whining. It hasn't gotten so bad yet that I'll be betraying over to Bruiser. But I do think about it every day. Especially having played a level 70 Bruiser. Regards, Croaker Message Edited by Sslarrga on 07-05-2006 03:52 PM

07-06-2006, 02:51 AM	#18
eyes007 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 242	I said: Problem is, a group with a Guardian can do it with less people, take last night for instance, they took me in to get my Hat updates which were all successful: Monk 67 (I dinged 68 right at the end with a trash mob) Guardian 70 Inquisitor 70 Berserker 70 We went all the way up to Sothis which then required us to get some dps, a Brigand 70 for 2 Named fights (Sothis and Frankie). I get the feeling if I was 70, Sothis wouldn't have been as much of a problem (as it was orange to me at 67), but I find it interesting 3 tanks and an inquisitor can do that zone fairly well (sure the mobs were pretty tough but no way were we in any danger). Wildfury77 wrote: "The problem is a guardian can do it with less people" - What?? u post this statement then say that you didn't actually finish the zone.....(as opposed to the Monk led group i talked about that ripped through the zone.....and whats your point?) Monks and bruisers are ideal for the six man instance group, especially if scout heavy - in fact i reckon if u removed 1 off the healers and added a Dirge then you would have near melee perfection (Monk,Dirge,Swashiex2,Ranger,and Defiler for example). If you kill VERY fast then why do you need a guard....have u seen what happens when Monk haste/swashie inspiration and Dirge CoB go off together? byebye Sothis. Oh and if you lose agro cos of the swashie burst dmg they can instantly point it back at you - "reverse rescue" and in addition a 27% hate transfer to u is always up. A swashie also doesn't die if the monk loses agro briefly unlike a caster. Message Edited by Wildfury77 on 07-03-200605:28 AM Hey unless u can read something I don't see, where do I say "I didn't finish the zone?" I said we had to bring in a BRIGAND to finish the last 2 named and I did say we were SUCCESSFUL... My point is that with a Guardian, we can use pratically anything, I mean 3 TANKS and 1 HEALER and 1 of those tanks lvl67. It's not a knockback about monks, it's just facts. The INTERESTING thing I find is people always knock tanks for not being DPS, we may not be uber-dps like casters or scouts, but we hold our own np (but raids of course are a whole different arena) __________________

07-06-2006, 10:27 AM	#19
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Hey unless u can read something I don't see, where do I say "I didn't finish the zone?" I said we had to bring in a BRIGAND to finish the last 2 named and I did say we were SUCCESSFUL... My point is that with a Guardian, we can use pratically anything, I mean 3 TANKS and 1 HEALER and 1 of those tanks lvl67. It's not a knockback about monks, it's just facts. The INTERESTING thing I find is people always knock tanks for not being DPS, we may not be uber-dps like casters or scouts, but we hold our own np (but raids of course are a whole different arena) think he was implying from your post that you didn't take out the last guy (meaning the doom lord after sothis) __________________

07-06-2006, 10:35 AM	#20
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Sslarrga wrote: I've tanked it with 1 healer before. And I've gone in with guardian/zerker/pally tanking (no real SKs in our guild). It's MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster and easier when there is a guardian/zerker/pally tanking than when I'm tanking. This is generally speaking when I'm tank buffed having around 81-82% avoidance and about 4k mitigation. Even then. There's some places where it can get a little hairy with me tanking. With a mit tank in the same group with 1 healer? Doesn't even break a sweat. Then again HoF isn't even remotely as hard as it used to be other than 1 or 2 mobs. The new City of the Niaids however. Now that's a fun zone. Again quite significantly easier with a plate tank than an avoidance tank. I'm not even sure the last mob is possible without a mitigation tank. First few times I did it, I decided to be the tank. Cleared everything except for the Mistress and the x2/x4. Just wasn't able to do those. Took a guardian the next time and blam. Piece of cake. Think we only wiped twice. Once on the mistress. And once on a bad pull. Bleh. Regards, Croaker from tanking this zone to finish a couple times with my monk now i dont notice debilitate being dropped on me and i'm not sure if its that the healers i have are johnny-on-the-spot with the trauma cure or if it's the fact that soe has nerfed the inc dps and/or debuffs of the mobs. originally the first run through i was thinking it was the healers or possibly the fact that once i'm debuffed by debilitate my avoidance helps keep me alive long enough for a cure. so from what you're saying croaker is that you've noticed the zone is easier now or is just the fact that we're all getting used to it or upgraded gear or what? i'm guessing it's not gear because the small mitigation/avoidance difference from tier 6-7 isn't enough to counter a 4k mit debuff from my point of view (it probably helps the plate tanks out but not leather tanks) __________________

07-06-2006, 05:00 PM	#21
Random_Rolle Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 10	This zone is very easy for plate tanks as well. I am a 70 pally and tanked this many times. Only problem ever is the frankie monster who tends to twoshot me but any rooting class can help that (cause can only do it once, revive and rebuff then kill before it has recharged its debuff).The group i did it with last was a an awesome melee group.Pally 70Wizard 70Templar 70Dirge 70Swashy 70Ranger 67The dirge buffs, especially Cacaphony of Blades is the key, during those 12s no named can do anything with 3+ melee cause of the interupts. Only reason i died on frankie was cuase he did 7kx2 damage during first 3s of fight.Any good healer can soloheal this instance with a pally, that should suggest that any plate tank would work. I have a monk myself and honestly i would be afraid to try and tank this when solohealed, currently only 65 so wont try until at least 69 but one bad hit after debuff, unless the healer is fast enough on cure (and can be hard for those with slow casting heals) is a one shot, or is that a not correct?-5k mitigation would allow the frankie to hit for around 10k+. If he hits ofcourse, but i dont wanna do so much lottery tanking.But from my point of view playing both, what monks lack in general (not HoF) is not tanking ability but taunting.AoE taunting is very hard if more then one encounter, and as a pally i regulrarly pull 2-3 encounters even in HoF to speed things up. Is it possible to hold aggro on 2+ encounters with monk? and how. (Planning in wis line for that reason). __________________ -- "Everybody is someone elses wierdo."

07-07-2006, 03:15 AM	#22
eyes007 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 242	wesbarlow wrote: Hey unless u can read something I don't see, where do I say "I didn't finish the zone?" I said we had to bring in a BRIGAND to finish the last 2 named and I did say we were SUCCESSFUL... My point is that with a Guardian, we can use pratically anything, I mean 3 TANKS and 1 HEALER and 1 of those tanks lvl67. It's not a knockback about monks, it's just facts. The INTERESTING thing I find is people always knock tanks for not being DPS, we may not be uber-dps like casters or scouts, but we hold our own np (but raids of course are a whole different arena) think he was implying from your post that you didn't take out the last guy (meaning the doom lord after sothis) thanks Smoke, I should of clarified those were the last 2 Named we did WITH dps, Doom Lord we killed without the Brigand, we cleared the whole zone, even the few trash mobs we had missed on our way down - just to make things clear :smileywink: Message Edited by eyes007 on 07-07-2006 12:16 PM __________________

07-07-2006, 06:22 PM	#23
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Cleared it with a fury as only healer. Group was me (lvl 70 monk), 70 fury, 70 ranger, 70 swashy, 70 wizard and 70 conjurer. I died twice (no group wipe though), once with the named that pops from the lab table and once with a ^^^ zerker mob, no other deaths in zone. Message Edited by Timaarit on 07-07-2006 05:22 PM

07-07-2006, 09:27 PM	#24
DarkMirrax Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,238	Take a Coercer and warlock :smileyvery-happy: you can do it a a trio without a healer then lol root, nuke , charm ftw __________________ Q - Named and epics get + to hit which makes avoidance tanking suck. A- Yes they do, and yes it does =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II ... Whats Amazing Reflexes ?? ....... ===========================

07-08-2006, 01:27 AM	#25
DynamicPerforman General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 298	As a non-raiding monk, I have to say that its almost impossible for me to tank HoF all the way through.Partly its my gear, and partly that i can never find a full group of 70's to do it with (65-70 usually, so we're a bit weaker than we should be)I'm not sure if anything has been changed recently, But when i went in there last (1 month ago) I would die in 2 hits from centurions. I even tested it, and with tsunami on, and grouped to increase my avoidence to 76%(woot!) The first thing the centurion would do was an attack that hit me for 5k damage. I was hit through tsunami even. I believe this is because of stun locking (what i heard and experianced) And so mobs need to be able to hit when they can in order to provide a challange. Now that stun locking has become even harder (1.5sec stun? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!!) I assume they are decreasing the "precise hits."Generally speaking, its the only zone I can't tank, and only because of the cents and my gear. I'd have to say you need legendary gear or above to do this zone. Dynamicman out... __________________

07-09-2006, 06:38 AM	#26
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	well they've seriously nerfed this zone down from what it used to be. i hardly ever get debuffed now and i'm not that big of a stud. mostly legendary stuff from the claymore series up through the shoulders. got z-leggings because i can't get the endbringers to drop for crap in that place and some [Removed for Content] on our server wants 30p for the ones he's got. i went through the other day as dps instead of tanking. we had a paly for the mt and we were getting social aggro out the butt from bad pulls left and right and not 1 group wipe. paly went down on frankie but no group wipe. last guy in the zone is still kinda mean and frankie but that's about it. it's no problem in there to pull 2-3 mobs at once and tank them. __________________

07-10-2006, 10:54 PM	#27
Griffona General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 126	wesbarlow wrote: we had a paly for the mt and we were getting social aggro out the butt from bad pulls left and right and not 1 group wipe. paly went down on frankie uh... __________________

07-11-2006, 07:18 AM	#28
wesbarlow Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	rofl. ok...i'll ya..that didn't sound right __________________

07-12-2006, 03:34 AM	#29
eyes007 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 242	I'm still trying to get Death Trance off Doom Lord, twice in a row now it's gone to some plate wearing freak (and only because of the 2 earring slot change/rumor). Still, HoF has a good choice of Nameds to kill. I might time our next jaunt in there, been here three nights in a row and it gets quicker each time and we always end up with 4 people lol Still, we get alot of master spells from there. __________________

07-12-2006, 08:17 PM	#30
Harpax Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 225	For the monks who are succesfully tanking HoF, what type of equipment are you all using. My stuff is on the high side of average and i still get beat down in there.