I'm sick of this...

[-UGG-Andy]

In my experiance up to lvl 42,i tank only when there is not a plate tank in the group,otherwise im dps.You have next to no chance of being picked over a guardian to main tank in a group,let alone a raid-but then again,i never saw a guardian get picked for dps.Even just self buffed,i have seen guardians my level with 30% more mitigation,and only 10-15% less avoidance..once buffed in a group its obvious which to pick.It does'nt matter how many times a dev says monks are meant to be equal tanks blah blah,the reality at the moment is monks and bruisers are the worst tanks of the fighter tree,but have the best dps-which we can all look forward to being nerfed,as apparently its a little too good.

[diamondma]

i disagree with monks and bruisers bein the worst tanks. ever seen a pally or sk try and tank? usually ends up with agro goin all over the place. when pallies tank i have to keep my dps under 140 otherwise i take agro immediately.

[-UGG-Andy]

my gf plays a paladin with me,we played together from lvl1-42,so yes i know about pallies,i know that when shes mt and using all her skills i can't pull agro off her at all,and i have all my skills upgraded,and so does she.Maybe its cos most pallies i have seen are poor players,perhaps your server is the same.They have more skills that affect hate than monks i think,they got there taunts,loads of aoe's,DoT's,and group and single target buffs that transfer hate to them.We have two taunts and some attacks with dots that generate hate.

[diamondma]

nothin against u man but suthin is wrong there. ive never had a pally or sk that could hold agro against me just dps'ing much less a druid, warlock, or mystic. i cant believe that all the pallies/sks are that horrible.

[SageMarrow]

well you have had pallys that suck. cause im a bruiser and i can put out more dps than you - and i know for a fact that the level 44 paladin i was in a group with for 3hrs a minute ago didnt have any problems holding aggro from me unless he was OOP.

Thats just a poorly played paladin then...

Holding aggro is really kinda jokish. Ive held aggro off of level 48 necros, 49 wizard/warlocks...and ive done that with level 20 on down taunts because as a bruiser i dont have any without fear in them.

 

[Buggrit]

im sick of everyone [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing about monks i quit my lvl 28 Guardian for a monk well currently lvl 18 brawler nearly 19 and im having so much more fun i tank v well duo with my gf lvl 19 shaman and we tear up the field in the end who cares if u can't tank aswell as a plate class aslong as u have fun playing ur class /shrug i don't care if a guardian will get picked over me in the future because playing a brawler/monk is the most fun ive had in a while good at tanking with all that dmg yes it must be pretty annoying having lower lvl plate tanks picked over you but people still have the eq1 idea engraved into there brain i had loads of fun on eq1 with a group of just clerics and a necro lol espeically doing ldons at lvl 65-70 was funny  theres so much diversity on eq2 which people have yet to realise

[pillb]

Monks are more fun than guardians and zerkers and knights. It's because they sacrafice pure tanking but in exchange they get skills letting them CHOOSE how they want to play. They're more versitale. Stop crying that Guardians and zerkers can tank better... Sick of hearing all the babies on these forums.

[Buggrit]

---

pillbub wrote:
Monks are more fun than guardians and zerkers and knights.

It's because they sacrafice pure tanking but in exchange they get skills letting them CHOOSE how they want to play.

They're more versitale.

Stop crying that Guardians and zerkers can tank better... Sick of hearing all the babies on these forums.

---

lol agree fully if u think about it about 20,000 people play monks and about 200 of those monks post on monk boards thats about 1 10th of the monks 175 post useful information or ask questions that leaves 25 whiners or so probally less than that

 

my point is quit whining and get over yourself a very small number of you are whining were everyone else is happy with there class i admit gage and his friends have posted some good points but 80% of it is just [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing that you can't be the l33t ub8r tankz that u were in eq1 velious era

 

bet im gonna get called a troll or a kid for that bit of information but oh well its the truth /shrug

Message Edited by Buggrit on 04-26-2005 05:51 AM

Message Edited by Buggrit on 04-26-2005 05:53 AM

Message Edited by Buggrit on 04-26-2005 06:01 AM

[-UGG-Andy]

I can see a few posts that are probably gonna call down the wrath of the mighty Gage!

he'll probably tell you the following;

All tanks are meant to be equally good at tanking.

Monks sacrifice taunting ability etc for DPS,not tanking ability.

He'll tell you that,cos thats what the people who made the game say.

 

That said,i would'nt like a guardian,as they seem just too defensive and one dimensional,monks have more flexibility it seems.I would try a zerker though,they look fun,and are accepted as tanks.

 

Btw,sorry if i im wrong Gage,this is not a serious post.:smileytongue:

Message Edited by -UGG-Andy on 04-26-2005 06:38 AM

[RafaelSmith]

LOL I am a Guardian...and I know/realize that Monks are just as good tanks... Too bad some Monks havent figured that out as well =P

[digitalfre]

I would actually rather *not* tank, given the choice.  However, we only have 3 "fighter" types in our guild (me - Monk @34, Pally @49 and a Guardian @ 31), so I do end up tanking a lot.  If one of the other two are in the group, I defer to them as I'd rather be DPS.  I get enough of tanking when I solo.:smileyvery-happy:

There is no doubt that Monks can tank.  How well they can tank depends on who's sitting at the keyboard.

[Oidan]

The biggest problem of EQ2 is 2 things.

 

1. EQ1 misconceptions

 

2. People not only understanding their class but other clsses as well.

 

The 2 biggest things that I always see is either a tanking issue or you do more DPS than me. Quite frankly no matter how much balancing they do, there will always be issues where people are not happy, that is a given. Another thing that is disheartening is the fact that this stage in the game, SOE does not even know what direction they are tanking. They can't come outright and say who does what because they know that can't guarantee anything.

 

I have found that both Monk and Bruiser make exception tanks for everyday grping. The same could be said with any fighter based class. The only real determining factor is the skill that player brings to the table as well as the healer(s) standing behind them. Healers especially T5 have to really get in there and understand the pro's and con's of mitigation/avoidance tanks.

 

I come across healers who only duo all of the time or are only used to healking 1 type of tank. They are hurting themselves and the grp because of their lack of diversity of game play and knowledge.

 

I also find it somewhat amusing but also sad that another brawler would believes and would lead others to believe the opposite is true hence our ability to tank. This is not an attack on that poster but I question your skill and the skill of your circle of friends. I really do feel sorry for you if you believe what you stated.

 

I myself am not in a "small guild" but we only have a handful of 50's and have not raided any of the end game stuff yet but we will in time. I cant comment on that, the only thing I know is the info that you guys who post here put forth.

 

If I am in a pick up grp with a Plate based class and we are the same level, I will generally let them tank because like Sage said, we are pretty balanced. Yes we have more dps but do not, I repeat do not let the other tanks let you believe their dps is horrible. I have seen plate based tanks put up very decent numbers because they know their character well and have put the proper time into them.

 

Lots of misconceptions and that leads to others ingnorance.

[ArivenGemini]

---

-UGG-Andy wrote:

Monks sacrifice taunting ability etc for DPS,not tanking ability.

He'll tell you that,cos thats what the people who made the game say.

Btw,sorry if i im wrong Gage,this is not a serious post.:smileytongue:

Message Edited by -UGG-Andy on 04-26-2005 06:38 AM

---

Actually according to a recent post by Moorgard, monks sacrifice defensive buffs for DPS... "With fighters, damage potential is weighed against tanking ability. The latter is defined not just by avoidance or mitigation, but by the kind of buffs and abilities they get. Guardians and Paladins get the most defensive-oriented abilities, both for themselves and their groupmates. As a result, they will have the lowest damage output. At the other end of the scale are Bruisers and Monks, with Berserkers and Shadowknights in the middle." Which means dang it we should get better taunts

[Gaige]

---

Oidan wrote:

 

Lots of misconceptions and that leads to others ingnorance.

---

QFE.

I don't care what anyone's opinion about anything is.  Its when they try to take their opinion and form and mold it into a statement of fact.

*THAT* irritates the [Removed for Content] out of me.

Maybe you prefer to DPS, maybe you play in unskilled groups, maybe you play with a group from EQ1 who plays this game with that mentality, maybe your stats aren't aligned right, maybe your gear isn't right, maybe you don't use all of your skills how you should, maybe you don't understand how to be a tank period (meaning you would suck as a tank even as a guardian.)

There are so many factors that affect class performance it isn't even funny.

But the point is none of those things changes what the class is.  Just because you or others can't successfully do something, it doesn't change the scope or range of the class.

Furthermore the simple fact that plenty of people day in and day out do the things you say aren't possible, just go to further discredit your opinion, although as an opinion its still very much valid...as long as you express it as such.

As it stands right now in all but the most difficult raid situations (unless, like Jez, the raid is built for a brawler MT) then we can tank fine, just as any fighter played by a skilled player can.  Some have it easier than others as far as aggro control, mitigation, or mana efficiency, but every single one of us can do it.

If you can't, speak for yourself, not the class.

Besides, none of us know what is going to happen with the rather large, all encompassing and total gameplay changing patches they are putting on test.

So no need to speak about that until its finished.

Speak about the here and now, and here and now we are tanks.  If you can't tank, it doesn't make us not tanks, it makes you a less skilled one.

[Gaige]

---

Ariven wrote:

Actually according to a recent post by Moorgard, monks sacrifice defensive buffs for DPS...

"With fighters, damage potential is weighed against tanking ability. The latter is defined not just by avoidance or mitigation, but by the kind of buffs and abilities they get. Guardians and Paladins get the most defensive-oriented abilities, both for themselves and their groupmates. As a result, they will have the lowest damage output. At the other end of the scale are Bruisers and Monks, with Berserkers and Shadowknights in the middle."

Which means dang it we should get better taunts

---

Well, in my defense that is how its *going* to be after the combat changes.  Not necessarily how it is now, although I have been wrong before.

[ArivenGemini]

---

Gage-Mikel wrote:

---

Ariven wrote:

Actually according to a recent post by Moorgard, monks sacrifice defensive buffs for DPS..."With fighters, damage potential is weighed against tanking ability. The latter is defined not just by avoidance or mitigation, but by the kind of buffs and abilities they get. Guardians and Paladins get the most defensive-oriented abilities, both for themselves and their groupmates. As a result, they will have the lowest damage output. At the other end of the scale are Bruisers and Monks, with Berserkers and Shadowknights in the middle."Which means dang it we should get better taunts

---

Well, in my defense that is how its *going* to be after the combat changes.  Not necessarily how it is now, although I have been wrong before

---

I think it is at least partially how it is now too... looking at comparison between what I can do with my cursader, berserker and monk... and how the guardian I group with a lot keeps asking "dont you have any more buffs/wards/etc?" when I am MTing with my monk... There sure isn't a lot of maintained spell icons that come up with my monk.. but with my berserker I can have 12+ going at once... defensive buffs for me and the group as well as offensive buffs and various procs and whatnot...  and the monk in my guild closest to my berserker in level is 4 levels below and has met me in DPS... (against 1-3 mobs, we haven't checked vs large amounts of mobs yet)... so yeah I think its that way now.. or at least intended to be so... But I still want more taunts on my monk (heck, half my combat skills I use with berserker have hate attached to them, so if I am not MT, I might end UP being mt if I am not careful)... I find it a lot harder to keep agro with the monk than the serk... but not impossible as long as everyone fulfills their role properly... But then I still haven't broken 30 on the monk so I have a ways to go to see the middle and high end content and see how monk behaves there..

[Nefari]

I just don't get it. I have posted this before...I have a static group of monk, guardian, ranger, templar, illus....and whoever we pick up that night.  Usually another Monk. The guardian is MT in most situations.  Kills just go quicker with me DPS'ing, and I really don't mind.  It's not an EGO thing. BUT here's the kicker....when we face harder stuff, 50+ or group x2 mobs....I TANK.  In our experiences, we operate BETTER with me as tank once I have had Transcendent Vision and all the Guardian off-tank buffs stacked on me.  And it's with ONE healer, and it's a ::GASP:: TEMPLAR. Here's the thing....with me as MT I can use all my taunts, hence getting more interruptions on casting mobs.  With taunts and special attacks, that's -5- different interrupts or stuns I can use to keep a mob from casting, 6 if it's not Epic and want to count a full Lunging Mongoose.  Once I have a lead in the Hate game, the Guard can use ALL his stuns/stifles/taunts and NOT get aggro off me (thx Lu'Sun and your Raging Soul).  My faster taunt regen and higher DPS allow me to keep aggro. I seriously think people that say they can't tank as a Monk just really have no clue about how to play their character.   There's more to it than engaging the mobs and hitting you special attacks as fast as they can recycle. 

[SageMarrow]

who here besides Wiou has said that monks are not tanks?

[Brew01]

After rereading my first post I should state that I posted it in haste and while being firmly [Removed for Content] off. So forgive me if I came off as a person who doesn’t like or can’t tank as a Monk. I can see how some of you might have perceived this believe me I do enjoy and perform well as a monk tank.   

I do think that the perception from other players suck and I’m tired of defending my right to tank in a PICK UP group. THAT and only THAT is why I posted the previous post nothing more nothing less.

I’ve done almost every lvl doing quests and grouping with my old Static group. I was blinded by my ability to always have a group on stand by. Now I’m not in that perfect situation and I’ve had to conform to a DPS slot.    

I’m not complaining about Guardians being better then Monks at tanking.(IMO this isn’t totally true)

I’m not complaining about Monks not being able to tank (because I know we can).

What I am complaining about is VERY valid and should be a concern with any monk who likes the class. It’s the amount of people who believe monks aren't viable tanks. These uninformed people who treat monks like enchanters with the ability to kick and taunt.

I apologize for going off on a tangent when I just need to live with. I’ve accepted it and I will continue the good fight. I was just at a week point in my battle and a bit on edge.

Also I have to disagree with you Wiou monks are indeed tanks.

[woo]

i think its 90% the person and 10% the class..

on my server (oggok) im fairly well known for being a good tank.. and 99% of the time im picked to be tank -- main tank at that.  sometimes people iv never played with before will try bashing me, and i just show them what i can do (or kick em out of group for ignorance).  self buffed my stats are better than most guardians out there..  i use quick grey skills to get HO's and recieve heros armor a lot which compared to a lot of crappy people who dont even taunt let alone do HOs.  if i played a guardian, im sure id still be a good tank.. better? my stats might be better.. but it really wouldnt be night n day i dont think.  the difference is there, and its noticable.. but i feal that its more the person than the player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mellowknees72]

Bah, monks are awesome tanks!  People who don't believe so either:

 

1) Played a monk in EQ1 and are basing their opinion on that (monks in EQ1 were awesome damage takers, but could not taunt, which made it tough for them to "tank" in the true sense).

 

2) Have never played a monk in EQ2

 

3) Have never played in a group with a good monk tank in EQ2, or

 

4) Just refuse to believe it for whatever reason.

 

I'm the co-leader of a little guild on Najena...and we have 3 tanks we usually rotate through - a 36 monk, a 34 monk (my main) or a 37 Paladin.

 

All of us are good tanks for different reasons - but the monks "tank" just as effectively as the Paladin, seriously.

 

Unfortunatley, some folks get stuck in the mindset that you have to have a certain set of classes in a group to make it work.  EQ1 suffered from this same problem - no one ever believed me, but we used to do 3-person LDoN Dungeon adventures and WIN more often than we did when we filled a group up with other players - it was me (65 druid), a 65 monk and a 65 beastlord.  The only time we ever could not complete our dungeons in time was when the servers would crash.

 

So don't believe everything you're fed, even when it comes on a nice-looking spoon.  Some people will always refuse to believe that a monk can tank, but they're nuts...hands down.

 

We rock.  Just as much as other tanks.  That's all there is to it.   If the person behind the monk really knows what their abilities and skills can do, they can rock even harder.

[Wiou]

"Wiou you are full of it.  I get picked to tank and always have.  The only time I DPS is for raid content, and even then only if its x3 or x4.  I think Jezekiel is living proof that brawlers are tanks.

You haven't experienced enough of the game to know, plus you have a preconceived notion that we aren't a tank class, can't tank, and are better suited for DPS; no wonder you are of the opinion you are.

Your opinion of the class is fine, just don't try to speak the statement as fact, when it isn't." Just like yours is... Gage? I think if we were really tanks, I would be invited to a group atleast *once* asking to be tank -- and im 38. Dont be a hypocrite either. Like you havent made your notions with just your experiences on if a monk is a tank or not? Also its good to know that you know exactly what I think and why. I dont care if you're 'picked' to tank. You are the worst of the 'pickable' classes. If there were anyone else from the fighter tree they would have picked them instead.

[Gaige]

---

Wiou wrote:
Just like yours is... Gage?

I think if we were really tanks, I would be invited to a group atleast *once* asking to be tank -- and im 38.

Dont be a hypocrite either. Like you havent made your notions with just your experiences on if a monk is a tank or not? Also its good to know that you know exactly what I think and why.

I dont care if you're 'picked' to tank. You are the worst of the 'pickable' classes. If there were anyone else from the fighter tree they would have picked them instead.

---

Heh, whatever man.

[SageMarrow]

well well welll,

that was a nice spot check...

[Harlequiin]

When EQ2 came out I started a Troubadour. Then, while in groups, I would hear, "We need a scout class for dps. Sorry." I would then get booted. Scratching my head, after I picked my jaw up off the floor, would then send the group leader tells explaining what a troubadour can really offer to a group INCLUDING dps. I was reinvited to the group but I declined.

 

Eventually I started an alt...a warden. Different server same thing happened. "We need a healer for the group. Sorry." Booted.

 

Rolled up a monk. "We need a tank for the group. Sorry. We're gonna use this guardian." I left the group on my own this time.

 

This incident while playing my monk happened just a week ago while in Stormhold. I needed a group to finish my AQ. At least I thought I did. That group used the guardian that was already in the group when I got invited. Someone 3 levels below me. They wiped. Then wiped again while getting their shards. All the while I'm pulling mobs into the atrium...soloing.

 

Seems I'm getting punished by stigmas so instilled into people's heads from a totally different game, save the name. I'm not one to quit but it sure does begin to get frustrating. This is why I can't wait for the upcoming changes.

 

If it does anything, it will open people's eyes to what a monk is supposed to do...tank.

[Tully]

I think he means Brother Raster for FBSS.

 

And Gage said he WOULD trade dps for ability to tank IN RAIDS.  He wasn't asking them to nerf DPS.  I would do this too since our best 2 combat art lines don't work against raid mobs.  We have no dps in raids and we can't tank, what else do you suggest?

 

sorry, i posted after reading page 1, forgot to look at the rest. 

 the only time I dont tank in groups is if they already have a higher level tank in group when they invite me.  otherwise I let them know I can tank and they dont need another and nobody has questioned me in months.  i honestly dont care which role i take, i just want xp.  with that in mind, if you have a monk to tank, why get a 'better' tank when they are only marginally better on xp grind mobs, when you can get a dps class that is HUGELY better in dps?  the only time I complain about not tanking is if its going to hurt XP over time.

Message Edited by Tully14 on 04-27-2005 12:33 PM

[SageMarrow]

When EQ2 came out I started a Troubadour. Then, while in groups, I would hear, "We need a scout class for dps. Sorry." I would then get booted. Scratching my head, after I picked my jaw up off the floor, would then send the group leader tells explaining what a troubadour can really offer to a group INCLUDING dps. I was reinvited to the group but I declined.

 

Eventually I started an alt...a warden. Different server same thing happened. "We need a healer for the group. Sorry." Booted.

 

Rolled up a monk. "We need a tank for the group. Sorry. We're gonna use this guardian." I left the group on my own this time.

 

This incident while playing my monk happened just a week ago while in Stormhold. I needed a group to finish my AQ. At least I thought I did. That group used the guardian that was already in the group when I got invited. Someone 3 levels below me. They wiped. Then wiped again while getting their shards. All the while I'm pulling mobs into the atrium...soloing.

 

Seems I'm getting punished by stigmas so instilled into people's heads from a totally different game, save the name. I'm not one to quit but it sure does begin to get frustrating. This is why I can't wait for the upcoming changes.

 

If it does anything, it will open people's eyes to what a monk is supposed to do...tank.

---

 

lol, dam you got it rough, yet another issue with them calling this game EQ2... i wonder what the odds are of them changing it to something else?

[DUNN]

Honestly you guys should not complain, try being a SK!!!! apperently we suck.

Once im my 20's (24 i beleive) i was in varsoon getting a pick up group.  We had 2 healers 2 monks me (SK) and a scout. Now both monks where higher lvl thanme 27 and 28.  Guess who got to tank? That is right me, even after i said let the monks tank. The monks declined and  "said no go ahead" and i began to take the beating that they wouldn't of gotten.  Sure we did ok but i was always less than 20% health every fight.  What did this accomplish in the end?

 

Everyone im my group to think that SK where crappy tanks and Monks/Bruisers DPS.   See where some  of the stigma comes from. LOL

 

 

Message Edited by DUNN on 04-27-2005 01:16 PM

Message Edited by DUNN on 04-27-2005 01:17 PM

[SageMarrow]

haha, thats a good one, just over complicating nothing in the heads of the feeble minded to begin with...

[Wiou]

WELL said, pillbub