lets try this be as anonymous as possible - Page 14

SniperKitty · 03-13-2005, 11:45 AM

"The point of my post (5 stars! Hurrah! For once...) for those that missed it was that Monks aren't necessarily designed to be the best at anything. THAT is our defining feature. " - Bullsheet. Not being the best at anything is what frakked the druid class in EQ1. Only after expansion after expansion have druids come slightly closer to being accepted as raid healers. Mostly because all the clerics keep quitting the game left and right.Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!Once again, get the frak out of the monk forums and the monk class if you don't want to tank. GO PLAY A SCOUT!

Gaige · 03-13-2005, 11:55 AM

No Nerill, I just decided that talking about the same thing over and over for pages and pages is boring, adds nothing constructive to our class forums and gets absolutely nothing done.

We don't agree, we will never agree, and since we are talking about our opinions, its pointless.

The last 10 pages have been me saying the same things over and over, and you flaming me and saying the same things over and over.

So I decided that everytime you post with my name in it, to say something funny.

Because doing that is as pointless as arguing with you.

Even when I answer you, you ask me the same questions again.

Good luck making monk a worthless class, I hope you don't succeed.

SageMarrow · 03-13-2005, 11:56 AM

"Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!"

sniper this is the first time i have ever agreed within a grain of salt with anything you have said.

so sniper are you suggesting on a serious level that they take the dps and make us full blown tanks based on avoidance and all that and give us more taunts etc so that we can always contend with plate tanks for grp tank?

a change will have to be made after the scout dps boost. so do you think this is the direction we should go to further solidify our tanking ability as opposed to leaning the direction of dps?????

Gaige · 03-13-2005, 11:59 AM

SageMarrow wrote:

"Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!"

sniper this is the first time i have ever agreed within a grain of salt with anything you have said.

so sniper are you suggesting on a serious level that they take the dps and make us full blown tanks based on avoidance and all that and give us more taunts etc so that we can always contend with plate tanks for grp tank?

a change will have to be made after the scout dps boost. so do you think this is the direction we should go to further solidify our tanking ability as opposed to leaning the direction of dps?????

I'm not sniper but I suggest this is already the case, and what SoE has been working towards since the beginning. Jez tanked a x4 today and that is just a step in the right direction.

We should always contend with plate tanks for group tank. It's like when you have a zerker/guardian, it goes by lvl or who is offensive. We shouldn't be excluded because we rely on evasion.

But yes Sage, I do think that being a "jack of all trades" will ruin our class, as scouts/mages and other fighters will be doing the two things we can do, better.

So as we are fighters, I think the future of our class relies on us being built as formidable tanks.

My opinion.

SniperKitty · 03-13-2005, 12:04 PM

I don't care what SOE does to make us tank better. It's their game after all. They're the ones getting paid to design it. So long as I can tank all content from 1 to 50, including raid content, I'll be happy. If they turn us into a DPS class, I'll be very [Removed for Content].

SageMarrow · 03-13-2005, 12:10 PM

gage = she is trying to get you to present some solutions so that the both of you can work from there - you avoid her questions and dont present any solutions - which was a problem that i said about you in our many conversations.

you present dev words but not any GAGE MICKEL FEEDBACK on solutions for raid tanking and overall class balance. read the big post in the dev tracker and it openly says that they may be wrong at times in making assumptions on what the community wants and the desires of it from within.

if they had solutions lined up that would please everyone gage - they wouldve implemented them already - in the past 4 patches there has been nothing done to make us better in either dps or tanking or even fixing any bugged skills for that matter... even in the new test patch notes - there are none= so which leads me to believe that they are at a stand still - so unless the monks that tank = and desire to tank raid mobs - or whatever the situiation may be need to step up and present solutions that are obtainable and final as to put this to rest.

fix deflection

and more taunts

wont cut it in the area of pleasing everyone around the board - im positive the devs have read this board and many others and see the split on dps and tanking - and see whos posting solutions - where as ive posted about 50 different ways it could be done = im thinking of consolidating all the ones i have presented to balance the two sides within the brawler archetype.

if you think for a second that they will make us all tank only tanks - then they will lose half if not more of the monk community = if not because of them being forced to play a way they dont desire too - then simply because we will be uprooted and overhauled in the process of getting there------ that would cause an uproar in all classes -- those that think its crazy against those that would like it to happen to thier class - and so on and so on...

we have presented the issues - over and over again - gage if you want things to go your way or if at least to be heard so that your opinion will at least be considered as a fix - you have to present a solution beyond the obvious ones that may or may not come into effect.

soe does change their mind - and its becoming more apparent with every patch - dont mention anything about me finding a patch where we moved away from tanking = there are none - but at the same time we are never placed on par with plate tanks - just kept in the loop of things as far as tanking... get something together that matters instead of your defensive tactics...

SageMarrow · 03-13-2005, 12:17 PM

sniper unless you present a solution that would befit your side = then its a mute point and should not be considered if you have no reasoning behind your approach and no solution to its resolution.

and this isnt soes game - we pay thier salaries - everytime someone makes a mmorpg its a risk that is funded at the base of the game and from there on out is expected to be self sufficient while making profit to ensure that they at least break even financially. they have high hopes for this game and it being successful both financially and as a game thereby building its audience from within - somewhat like cell phone companies do persay -

keep customers coming back based on quality product and efficiency.

PS. im highly involved in business so take my word on it...:smileywink:

Nerill · 03-13-2005, 02:26 PM

No Gage, you don't answer the questions. Anyone with a reading comprehension above 2nd grade can see that.

All you do is regurgitate what other people say.

When you are put in a corner and asked for specifics you either totally avoid answering the question, speak in generalities or contardict yourself.

Now you have resorted to acting like a child, which for all I know, you are. /shrug

I have even posted a comparison where it seems that what I am saying .... you too have said at one point in this debate. Then, you went on to contradict yourself yet again.

So is it so hard to answer the following questions ?

At Lv 50 What DPS Range do YOU think Monks/Bruisers should Fall in to compared to Scouts and then Mages ?

For example:

Mages: 200 - 240

Scouts: 160 - 200

Bruisers: 120 - 160

Monks: 100 - 140

That would look to be about right to me .... but what do YOU think ???

Oh and my other question ...

WHAT "UNIQUE ABILITY" DO YOU PROPOSE WE GET ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 02:30 AM

SageMarrow · 03-13-2005, 02:34 PM

umm nerill i would really appreciate it if you took a break and read my solution...that i posted to you-

Nerill · 03-13-2005, 03:05 PM

Sorry Sage. :smileysad:

You are suggesting:

"fix deflection

and more taunts"

Allow me to respond to those and if I am responding to the wrong suggestions then please let me know.

1) Fix deflection - Absolutely ! I don't think there is a Monk in this community who would disagree. The only issue right now, IMHO, is that the DEVs at SOE are having a hard time balancing out the randomness of deflection and how it works. I have no doubt that they continue to look at this and hope one day they get this right. Until that time we have had shield stats added to our defence and an increase in Light Armor mitigation in order for us to better mitigate all the damage that we do end up taking.

2) More Taunts - I would disgree with the word "more". I don't think we need more taunts, I think our Group Taunt needs to be on a shorter timer. The need to spam group buffs in order to hold agro is truely insipid !

If I could have 5 minutes to suggest some things to the DEVs about the Monk class it would be:

1) Fix Deflection

2) Shorten the Recast timer a little on our Group Taunt so we don't have to resort to using Group Buffs to do what Taunts should

3) Focus on our Stances. Make our Offensive Stance so that it allows us to provide solid DPS ( but DPS behind Mages / Scouts / Bruisers ) and make our Defensive Stance boost our defense to the point where our DPS drops dramatically but our ability to Tank increases greatly

4) Never forget that when we chose the "Brawler" branch at level 10 we sacfiriced some of our Tanking ability for a greater DPS output and as such we should fit solidly behind Mages, Scouts and our cousins the Bruisers and yet firmly above all other classes in this game when it comes to DPS

Now .... does that sound unreasonable ?

As far as High-End Raid content .... I do not have a clue. I know nothing of it and would never try and pretend I know something about something that I know nothing of.

That is Gage's fight and, even though we have our serious differences, I support his fight just as long as he is not offering up any of our DPS in order to achieve his goal.

I still contend that the key to balancing our class is making good use of our "Offensive" and "Defensive" stances. Maybe 2 new stances. One at 49 and one at 50. The Offensive one would continue to allow us to focus on the best DPS that our class should be allowed to do while a Defensive stance would boost whatever stats are needed that would allow our Lv 50 brothers and sisters to Tank "Raid" type content.

Is that the answer ? I don't know. Hey, at least I am not afraid to make specific suggestions instead of general ones. :smileywink:

Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 03:14 AM

Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 03:15 AM

Nerill · 03-13-2005, 03:19 PM

Oh, and by the way ..... I'm a he. :smileywink:

Secondly ... if you would like to view my Monk to be sure that I am one ..... :smileywink:

Banzai ( Unrest )

SageMarrow · 03-13-2005, 03:43 PM

i said a long time ago that we should be THE off tank - (as we are now - but to a greater and more defined extent)

that unique and class defining ability should be to buff the entire groups so that they get maximization out of thier AC value given. so if a gaurdian is tanking a raid - then all attacks that land on him will be mitigated and absorbed at the highest level possible given his AC and defensive capabilities.

thus making us neccessary to keep long fights under control for the most part. so basically instead of certain attacks wavering at a certain amount of damage. aka - 3000+ damage attack taking somewhere between 3500 and 2600 on a random. that number would be forced to the lowest number possible for the MT and rest of the group respetively. (speaking for raids)

as for bruisers- the same situation just on the side of melee attacks - the arch of damage provided on weapons will be restricted or "boosted" to only hit in the higher arch of the equipments damage capability while equipped. in other words if you have 2 duel weild weapons that both hit between 25-74dmg at level 50 then the damage would instead of leveling out around 30-50's consistently - they would level between 50-74 consistently = maximizing damage output for all melee classes involved in a fight...

something like this would most defintely give us a place in raids and groups more often because we maximize the defence or offense of the group to its highest potential respectively..and keep our tanking ability and dps as it is now and do what they will with scouts - because something like this would keep us afloat as far as dps because combined with our combat arts and the fact that our weapons have more damage capability than most daggers do/combined with our strength. we would keep our spot right behind scouts by about 50-60dps.

that what you were looking for nerill?

lol= thats the post i was talking about = my bad for the gender mix up... names can be decieving lol

Ai · 03-13-2005, 06:01 PM

SniperKitty wrote:

Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!

Once again, get the frak out of the monk forums and the monk class if you don't want to tank. GO PLAY A SCOUT!

Um...some of us like to solo.

SniperKitty · 03-13-2005, 07:55 PM

Aija wrote:
Um...some of us like to solo.

Well if Nerill and Sage had their way, that's all monks would be able to do for xp. If you're not good at something, the playerbase will shun you like a tv watchin' Amish is shunned by their elders. There would be no point to ever inviting a monk unless they're your friend or you feel sorry for them. They'll end up just like druids in EQ1. A jack-of-all trades that doesn't do anything well and thus doesn't get group invites.

Owa · 03-13-2005, 08:02 PM

Sniperkitty with more Zen:

Bullsheet. Not being the best at anything is frakked ... Being a jack of all trades is stupid.. . makes monks useless....I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk....Get the frak out of the monk forums and the monk class...

The good old 'If-you-don't-agree-with-me-you-better-'frak'-off' approach. After all, that's what being a Monk is all about, right? :smileyvery-happy:

Owa · 03-13-2005, 08:26 PM

More entries from the 'Sniperkitty Zen Collection' (available from Intolerant Publications plc)

Shut the hell up already... You're [Removed for Content]-peas in a pod. ...You don't have a clue what you're talking about...It's that frakkin' simple you dimwitted, idiotic, stubborn, thickheaded morons!
I want to tank. I don't want versitility. I want to tank. I wanted to be a fighter. I wanted to tank. MONKS ARE TANKS. Get over it....slow and boring...I hate 'em....all of you jackhole morons... I'm sick of the stupdity...how the frak... These people must have had a labotomy or something... It's that frakkin' simple and these thick-headed morons can't understand it...Why can't we ban people for stupdity...You're a frakkin' [Removed for Content]....A blithering idiot...A bubmbling noob that doesn't have a frakkin' clue about anything...Just shut up...cancelyour account and never ever come back.... I don't want your stupidity infecting anyone else...Simple, simple, simple...End of story...Get over it.

You're wrong, wrong, WRONG
Got it finally? You're as stubborn as a fat man at a buffet wanting one last plate...shut up... We don't want it. so.... so SHUT UP.

Rediscover your own tranquility with these and other gems. Find your own inner sense of balance in the 'I WANT I WANT' chapter, experience the 'Zen of Telling People to Shut Up' and let this timeless collection of wisdom help you to really start dealing with the 'jackhole morons', the '[Removed for Content]-peas', the 'thick-headed morons', the 'idiotic, stubborn thickheaded, morons', the 'frakkin' morons', the 'blithering idiots', the 'bubmbling(sic) noobs' and even the fat man at the buffet.

'After all, that's what being a Monk is all about' (TM)

:smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by annaspider on 03-13-2005 07:40 AM

Amanojak · 03-13-2005, 08:46 PM

ROFLMAO

SniperKitty · 03-13-2005, 09:21 PM

You know I'm just saying what many other people want to say to those like Nerill and Sage. They deserve any scorn given to them.

Ili · 03-13-2005, 10:03 PM

annaspider wrote:

More entries from the 'Sniperkitty Zen Collection' (available from Intolerant Publications plc)

Shut the hell up already... You're [Removed for Content]-peas in a pod. ...You don't have a clue what you're talking about...It's that frakkin' simple you dimwitted, idiotic, stubborn, thickheaded morons!
I want to tank. I don't want versitility. I want to tank. I wanted to be a fighter. I wanted to tank. MONKS ARE TANKS. Get over it....slow and boring...I hate 'em....all of you jackhole morons... I'm sick of the stupdity...how the frak... These people must have had a labotomy or something... It's that frakkin' simple and these thick-headed morons can't understand it...Why can't we ban people for stupdity...You're a frakkin' [Removed for Content]....A blithering idiot...A bubmbling noob that doesn't have a frakkin' clue about anything...Just shut up...cancelyour account and never ever come back.... I don't want your stupidity infecting anyone else...Simple, simple, simple...End of story...Get over it.

You're wrong, wrong, WRONG
Got it finally? You're as stubborn as a fat man at a buffet wanting one last plate...shut up... We don't want it. so.... so SHUT UP.

Rediscover your own tranquility with these and other gems. Find your own inner sense of balance in the 'I WANT I WANT' chapter, experience the 'Zen of Telling People to Shut Up' and let this timeless collection of wisdom help you to really start dealing with the 'jackhole morons', the '[Removed for Content]-peas', the 'thick-headed morons', the 'idiotic, stubborn thickheaded, morons', the 'frakkin' morons', the 'blithering idiots', the 'bubmbling(sic) noobs' and even the fat man at the buffet.

'After all, that's what being a Monk is all about' (TM)

:smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by annaspider on 03-13-2005 07:40 AM

Now. *THAT* was funny. :smileyvery-happy:

-Ilina

Gaige · 03-13-2005, 11:10 PM

Nerill wrote:

Now you have resorted to acting like a child, which for all I know, you are. /shrug

I'm only 8 SMILEY

Nerill · 03-14-2005, 12:39 AM

[Removed for Content], annaspider :smileyvery-happy:

Sage, interesting ideas.

My only concern would be that if Monks would Maximize AC and Bruisers Melee Damage, wouldn't we be stepping on other classes ? Bards come to mind right off the top of my head. I'm not familiar with all class buffs. I have a 43 Monk, 20 Warden and a lv 10 Sorcerer ( who I haven't played in a couple months ). As long as your suggestions do not trample on other Classes abilities then I'd say you might be on to something. However, if they do, then I wouldn't want that as our "unique ability". :smileysad:

Maybe Gangster can chime in with an idea or 2 ?

SageMarrow · 03-14-2005, 03:04 AM

bards increase stats... not actual numbers built into the game persay.

the monk class would be able to maximize defense to its lowest possible random sort of like a skill with the name...and bruisers maximize attacks to thier highest possible random.

Tranquility of the monk: increases defense for all party members to the maximum extent of of its AC value.

(which would make wizard and caster types damage withstanding ability more solid = and take the crazy damage spikes out of longer fights by keeping an attack that would normally do 4000hp after being mitigated... to 3600 after being mitigated. given that this is the lowest possible value for an attack from x mob)

Aggression of the Bruiser: increase attack damage for all party members to the maximum extent of its attack.

(which would make the parties involveds' attacks land at the highest arch of efficiency - such as if a wizards Ice Comet was supposed to hit for 5000 - but usually only registers between 3000-4000 - will now register consistently at 4000-5000 range - same with melee damage = if a weapon is supposed to do between 24-75 damage, instead of consistently hitting for 24-50 - it would hit between the 50-74 range consistently.)

Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-13-2005 02:05 PM

Gaige · 03-14-2005, 03:08 AM

That would be so overpowering its not even funny. They'd have to make mobs super hard with that in mind and any group w/o a monk/bruiser would get whipped.

SageMarrow · 03-14-2005, 03:51 AM

no = just when one of us is available it will be a 25% faster or easier ride offensively or defensively..

(and hey if they ever introduce Qeynos vs freeport PVP = it would balance out the sides perfectly - since all freeport is offensive and qeynos are defensive - heck yeah - its yalls defense versus our offense.. would be awesome.

Nerill · 03-14-2005, 04:16 AM

It could work but would definately take some balancing so as not to trivialize current content.

At least you are trying to offer some ideas.

Something that Gage seems incapable of doing.

Gage, why don't you run along and play now and let the grown-ups talk ? :smileywink:

Gaige · 03-14-2005, 04:58 AM

Nerill wrote:

It could work but would definately take some balancing so as not to trivialize current content.

At least you are trying to offer some ideas.

Something that Gage seems incapable of doing.

Gage, why don't you run along and play now and let the grown-ups talk ? :smileywink:

Do you want me to start reporting every post like this of yours to the mods? Why don't you just leave me the hell alone.

It was my opinion that Sage's idea would be overpowering. Therefore I replied and said as much.

I didn't say anything about/to you, so your little childish remarks directed toward me every post need to just stop.

Grow up.

Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 03-13-2005 04:06 PM

Faarwolf · 03-14-2005, 05:30 AM

Do I really have to step in to stop this verbal food-fight? Or can we just get along without my intervention.

Nerill · 03-14-2005, 06:51 AM

lol

OMG

Gage, first you started acting like a child .... then admited that you were acting like a child and when I treat you like one you cry and tell mommy like a child.

Gage, I am a 34 year old husband and father of 2 boys ( Ages 3 and 12 ). I think I know when I see childish behavior.

If you would like to continue to partake in this discussion then by all means ... do so ... answer questions that are directed at you and stop misquoting people and otherwise acting like a spoiled kid who can't get his way !

However, if you do not care to continue this discussion, then by all means, stop reading this thread and let those of us who care to make suggestions and discuss this like adults, do so.

Simple enough, right ?

P.S.- Sorry Faarwolf ...... /hugs ?? :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 07:08 PM

Gaige · 03-14-2005, 07:56 AM

Nerill wrote:

Gage, I am a 34 year old husband and father of 2 boys ( Ages 3 and 12 ). I think I know when I see childish behavior.

If you would like to continue to partake in this discussion then by all means ... do so ... answer questions that are directed at you and stop misquoting people and otherwise acting like a spoiled kid who can't get his way !

Congratulations on having kids, plenty of people do that. I know when I see childish behavoir too SMILEY

I did, I posted my opinion on Sage's post, which had nothing to do with you, and yet you told me to "leave and let grown ups" have this discussion.

Oh, and just because someone asks me something, doesn't mean I need to answer it. I have a choice you know.

SMILEY

SageMarrow wrote:

lol gage please stop running and telling mommy every time someone says something to or about you dude..thats soooooo not cool - I'm sorry, I thought thats what the moderators got paid for. Ensuring that these forums could be used to discuss class issues without it resorting to personal flaming because opinions differ.

step up and back ur arguments or we will just let every thread get locked = so what? When threads become nothing but personal flames and attacks, they need to get locked. This thread is worse than the guardian envy thread, and it was locked.

you dont stand on anything but generic propaganda and dev "quotes" that dont hold very much water cause everything is subject to change. Sage how do you think YOUR opinion or PLAYERS opinion hold more water than the developers who MAKE the changes and balance the game?

thats just the way it is gage - either you bring your A game or you dont play - as i told you a long time ago - you arent good in confrontations that require you to dig within your reasoning skills because you know that common sense will say otherwise in every given situation regarding this debate about tanking - we werent originally built to be great MT's just okay ones in a pinch. Let me explain something to you. I don't talk about "my reasonings" because I'm not a dev. Common sense has nothing to do with archetype balance. We were built to be great MTs, its your opinion that we weren't. Because we can tank all the stuff that guardians can, including one x4 raid. They are supposedly great, aren't they?

so nerill stop the verbal food fight - and either way gage = dont go run and tell everytime someone pinches you on the playground... Actually after about five pages of nothing but flames and provoking jabs at my intelligence/age did I report Nerill. Because Nerill doesn't view this as a balance issue, its his personal vendetta against me, he even said so himself SMILEY

go sit on the steps next to miss debby like the other fragile kids....(analogy only) Yeah, that's maturity.

thanks

Nerill wrote:

Gage, first you started acting like a child .... then admited that you were acting like a child and when I treat you like one you cry and tell mommy like a child.

Nah, I was merely poking fun at you because you took this from a balance discussion to personal attacks. Post after post about me and not the issues at hand. I never admitted I was acting like anything, please quote where I did SMILEY

You weren't treating me like a child Nerill, you were acting like one yourself.

Why are you so adamant about attacking me directly? Do you feel envious of me? Threatened by me? What is it Nerill. Why can't you talk about the issues at hand and not just me?

I know I'm awesome, but geez. I don't need any 34 yo male admirers ::shudder::

Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 03-13-2005 07:06 PM

SageMarrow · 03-14-2005, 09:56 AM

you dont stand on anything but generic propaganda and dev "quotes" that dont hold very much water cause everything is subject to change. Sage how do you think YOUR opinion or PLAYERS opinion hold more water than the developers who MAKE the changes and balance the game?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____

because for the most part we ensure thier jobs? we pay thier salaries? without us there is no everquest 1 or 2?

thats how i think my opinion and the players' opinions matter so much - they caught the beserker thing before it got out of hand - now our issue is one that will have to be handled with much more delicacy than a nerf. a nerf makes us useless - on either end - in comparison to a boost to scouts...

the rest of the post was strictly built upon analogy- nothing more -

03-13-2005, 11:45 AM	#391
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	"The point of my post (5 stars! Hurrah! For once...) for those that missed it was that Monks aren't necessarily designed to be the best at anything. THAT is our defining feature. " - Bullsheet. Not being the best at anything is what frakked the druid class in EQ1. Only after expansion after expansion have druids come slightly closer to being accepted as raid healers. Mostly because all the clerics keep quitting the game left and right.Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!Once again, get the frak out of the monk forums and the monk class if you don't want to tank. GO PLAY A SCOUT! __________________ ... in bed.

03-13-2005, 11:55 AM	#392
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	No Nerill, I just decided that talking about the same thing over and over for pages and pages is boring, adds nothing constructive to our class forums and gets absolutely nothing done. We don't agree, we will never agree, and since we are talking about our opinions, its pointless. The last 10 pages have been me saying the same things over and over, and you flaming me and saying the same things over and over. So I decided that everytime you post with my name in it, to say something funny. Because doing that is as pointless as arguing with you. Even when I answer you, you ask me the same questions again. Good luck making monk a worthless class, I hope you don't succeed. __________________

03-13-2005, 11:59 AM	#394
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	SageMarrow wrote: "Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!" sniper this is the first time i have ever agreed within a grain of salt with anything you have said. so sniper are you suggesting on a serious level that they take the dps and make us full blown tanks based on avoidance and all that and give us more taunts etc so that we can always contend with plate tanks for grp tank? a change will have to be made after the scout dps boost. so do you think this is the direction we should go to further solidify our tanking ability as opposed to leaning the direction of dps????? I'm not sniper but I suggest this is already the case, and what SoE has been working towards since the beginning. Jez tanked a x4 today and that is just a step in the right direction. We should always contend with plate tanks for group tank. It's like when you have a zerker/guardian, it goes by lvl or who is offensive. We shouldn't be excluded because we rely on evasion. But yes Sage, I do think that being a "jack of all trades" will ruin our class, as scouts/mages and other fighters will be doing the two things we can do, better. So as we are fighters, I think the future of our class relies on us being built as formidable tanks. My opinion. __________________

03-13-2005, 12:04 PM	#395
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	I don't care what SOE does to make us tank better. It's their game after all. They're the ones getting paid to design it. So long as I can tank all content from 1 to 50, including raid content, I'll be happy. If they turn us into a DPS class, I'll be very [Removed for Content]. __________________ ... in bed.

03-13-2005, 02:26 PM	#398
Nerill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 347	No Gage, you don't answer the questions. Anyone with a reading comprehension above 2nd grade can see that. All you do is regurgitate what other people say. When you are put in a corner and asked for specifics you either totally avoid answering the question, speak in generalities or contardict yourself. Now you have resorted to acting like a child, which for all I know, you are. /shrug I have even posted a comparison where it seems that what I am saying .... you too have said at one point in this debate. Then, you went on to contradict yourself yet again. So is it so hard to answer the following questions ? *At Lv 50 What DPS Range do YOU think Monks/Bruisers should Fall in to compared to Scouts and then Mages ?* For example: Mages: 200 - 240 Scouts: 160 - 200 Bruisers: 120 - 160 Monks: 100 - 140 That would look to be about right to me .... but what do YOU think ??? Oh and my other question ... *WHAT "UNIQUE ABILITY" DO YOU PROPOSE WE GET ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!* Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 02:30 AM __________________ Equipment

03-13-2005, 11:56 AM	#393
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	"Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?!" sniper this is the first time i have ever agreed within a grain of salt with anything you have said. so sniper are you suggesting on a serious level that they take the dps and make us full blown tanks based on avoidance and all that and give us more taunts etc so that we can always contend with plate tanks for grp tank? a change will have to be made after the scout dps boost. so do you think this is the direction we should go to further solidify our tanking ability as opposed to leaning the direction of dps?????

03-13-2005, 12:10 PM	#396
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	gage = she is trying to get you to present some solutions so that the both of you can work from there - you avoid her questions and dont present any solutions - which was a problem that i said about you in our many conversations. you present dev words but not any GAGE MICKEL FEEDBACK on solutions for raid tanking and overall class balance. read the big post in the dev tracker and it openly says that they may be wrong at times in making assumptions on what the community wants and the desires of it from within. if they had solutions lined up that would please everyone gage - they wouldve implemented them already - in the past 4 patches there has been nothing done to make us better in either dps or tanking or even fixing any bugged skills for that matter... even in the new test patch notes - there are none= so which leads me to believe that they are at a stand still - so unless the monks that tank = and desire to tank raid mobs - or whatever the situiation may be need to step up and present solutions that are obtainable and final as to put this to rest. fix deflection and more taunts wont cut it in the area of pleasing everyone around the board - im positive the devs have read this board and many others and see the split on dps and tanking - and see whos posting solutions - where as ive posted about 50 different ways it could be done = im thinking of consolidating all the ones i have presented to balance the two sides within the brawler archetype. if you think for a second that they will make us all tank only tanks - then they will lose half if not more of the monk community = if not because of them being forced to play a way they dont desire too - then simply because we will be uprooted and overhauled in the process of getting there------ that would cause an uproar in all classes -- those that think its crazy against those that would like it to happen to thier class - and so on and so on... we have presented the issues - over and over again - gage if you want things to go your way or if at least to be heard so that your opinion will at least be considered as a fix - you have to present a solution beyond the obvious ones that may or may not come into effect. soe does change their mind - and its becoming more apparent with every patch - dont mention anything about me finding a patch where we moved away from tanking = there are none - but at the same time we are never placed on par with plate tanks - just kept in the loop of things as far as tanking... get something together that matters instead of your defensive tactics...

03-13-2005, 12:17 PM	#397
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	sniper unless you present a solution that would befit your side = then its a mute point and should not be considered if you have no reasoning behind your approach and no solution to its resolution. and this isnt soes game - we pay thier salaries - everytime someone makes a mmorpg its a risk that is funded at the base of the game and from there on out is expected to be self sufficient while making profit to ensure that they at least break even financially. they have high hopes for this game and it being successful both financially and as a game thereby building its audience from within - somewhat like cell phone companies do persay - keep customers coming back based on quality product and efficiency. PS. im highly involved in business so take my word on it...:smileywink:

03-13-2005, 02:34 PM	#399
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	umm nerill i would really appreciate it if you took a break and read my solution...that i posted to you-

03-13-2005, 03:05 PM	#400
Nerill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 347	Sorry Sage. :smileysad: You are suggesting: "fix deflection and more taunts" Allow me to respond to those and if I am responding to the wrong suggestions then please let me know. 1) Fix deflection - Absolutely ! I don't think there is a Monk in this community who would disagree. The only issue right now, IMHO, is that the DEVs at SOE are having a hard time balancing out the randomness of deflection and how it works. I have no doubt that they continue to look at this and hope one day they get this right. Until that time we have had shield stats added to our defence and an increase in Light Armor mitigation in order for us to better mitigate all the damage that we do end up taking. 2) More Taunts - I would disgree with the word "more". I don't think we need more taunts, I think our Group Taunt needs to be on a shorter timer. The need to spam group buffs in order to hold agro is truely insipid ! If I could have 5 minutes to suggest some things to the DEVs about the Monk class it would be: 1) Fix Deflection 2) Shorten the Recast timer a little on our Group Taunt so we don't have to resort to using Group Buffs to do what Taunts should 3) Focus on our Stances. Make our Offensive Stance so that it allows us to provide solid DPS ( but DPS behind Mages / Scouts / Bruisers ) and make our Defensive Stance boost our defense to the point where our DPS drops dramatically but our ability to Tank increases greatly 4) Never forget that when we chose the "Brawler" branch at level 10 we sacfiriced some of our Tanking ability for a greater DPS output and as such we should fit solidly behind Mages, Scouts and our cousins the Bruisers and yet firmly above all other classes in this game when it comes to DPS Now .... does that sound unreasonable ? As far as High-End Raid content .... I do not have a clue. I know nothing of it and would never try and pretend I know something about something that I know nothing of. That is Gage's fight and, even though we have our serious differences, I support his fight just as long as he is not offering up any of our DPS in order to achieve his goal. I still contend that the key to balancing our class is making good use of our "Offensive" and "Defensive" stances. Maybe 2 new stances. One at 49 and one at 50. The Offensive one would continue to allow us to focus on the best DPS that our class should be allowed to do while a Defensive stance would boost whatever stats are needed that would allow our Lv 50 brothers and sisters to Tank "Raid" type content. Is that the answer ? I don't know. Hey, at least I am not afraid to make specific suggestions instead of general ones. :smileywink: Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 03:14 AM Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 03:15 AM __________________ Equipment

03-13-2005, 03:19 PM	#401
Nerill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 347	Oh, and by the way ..... I'm a he. :smileywink: Secondly ... if you would like to view my Monk to be sure that I am one ..... :smileywink: Banzai ( Unrest ) __________________ Equipment

03-13-2005, 03:43 PM	#402
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	i said a long time ago that we should be THE off tank - (as we are now - but to a greater and more defined extent) that unique and class defining ability should be to buff the entire groups so that they get maximization out of thier AC value given. so if a gaurdian is tanking a raid - then all attacks that land on him will be mitigated and absorbed at the highest level possible given his AC and defensive capabilities. thus making us neccessary to keep long fights under control for the most part. so basically instead of certain attacks wavering at a certain amount of damage. aka - 3000+ damage attack taking somewhere between 3500 and 2600 on a random. that number would be forced to the lowest number possible for the MT and rest of the group respetively. (speaking for raids) as for bruisers- the same situation just on the side of melee attacks - the arch of damage provided on weapons will be restricted or "boosted" to only hit in the higher arch of the equipments damage capability while equipped. in other words if you have 2 duel weild weapons that both hit between 25-74dmg at level 50 then the damage would instead of leveling out around 30-50's consistently - they would level between 50-74 consistently = maximizing damage output for all melee classes involved in a fight... something like this would most defintely give us a place in raids and groups more often because we maximize the defence or offense of the group to its highest potential respectively..and keep our tanking ability and dps as it is now and do what they will with scouts - because something like this would keep us afloat as far as dps because combined with our combat arts and the fact that our weapons have more damage capability than most daggers do/combined with our strength. we would keep our spot right behind scouts by about 50-60dps. that what you were looking for nerill? lol= thats the post i was talking about = my bad for the gender mix up... names can be decieving lol

03-13-2005, 06:01 PM	#403
Ai General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 72	SniperKitty wrote: Being a jack of all trades is stupid. It breaks the archetype system and makes monks useless. It turns them into a pure SOLO class. I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk. If monks were turned into jack of all trades, master of none, we'd never get groups unless we were the only thing LFG. Why take a monk for DPS when you can get a scout or mage that does it so much better?! Why get a monk to tank when every other fighter archetype class and sub-class does it better?! Once again, get the frak out of the monk forums and the monk class if you don't want to tank. GO PLAY A SCOUT! Um...some of us like to solo.

03-13-2005, 07:55 PM	#404
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Aija wrote: Um...some of us like to solo. Well if Nerill and Sage had their way, that's all monks would be able to do for xp. If you're not good at something, the playerbase will shun you like a tv watchin' Amish is shunned by their elders. There would be no point to ever inviting a monk unless they're your friend or you feel sorry for them. They'll end up just like druids in EQ1. A jack-of-all trades that doesn't do anything well and thus doesn't get group invites. __________________ ... in bed.

03-13-2005, 08:02 PM	#405
Owa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 944	Sniperkitty with more Zen: Bullsheet. Not being the best at anything is frakked ... Being a jack of all trades is stupid.. . makes monks useless....I don't want that crap. I want to group. I want to group with my monk....Get the frak out of the monk forums and the monk class... The good old 'If-you-don't-agree-with-me-you-better-'frak'-off' approach. After all, that's what being a Monk is all about, right? :smileyvery-happy: __________________

03-13-2005, 08:26 PM	#406
Owa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 944	More entries from the 'Sniperkitty Zen Collection' (available from Intolerant Publications plc) Shut the hell up already... You're [Removed for Content]-peas in a pod. ...You don't have a clue what you're talking about...It's that frakkin' simple you dimwitted, idiotic, stubborn, thickheaded morons! I want to tank. I don't want versitility. I want to tank. I wanted to be a fighter. I wanted to tank. MONKS ARE TANKS. Get over it....slow and boring...I hate 'em....all of you jackhole morons... I'm sick of the stupdity...how the frak... These people must have had a labotomy or something... It's that frakkin' simple and these thick-headed morons can't understand it...Why can't we ban people for stupdity...You're a frakkin' [Removed for Content]....A blithering idiot...A bubmbling noob that doesn't have a frakkin' clue about anything...Just shut up...cancelyour account and never ever come back.... I don't want your stupidity infecting anyone else...Simple, simple, simple...End of story...Get over it. You're wrong, wrong, WRONG Got it finally? You're as stubborn as a fat man at a buffet wanting one last plate...shut up... We don't want it. so.... so SHUT UP. Rediscover your own tranquility with these and other gems. Find your own inner sense of balance in the 'I WANT I WANT' chapter, experience the 'Zen of Telling People to Shut Up' and let this timeless collection of wisdom help you to really start dealing with the 'jackhole morons', the '[Removed for Content]-peas', the 'thick-headed morons', the 'idiotic, stubborn thickheaded, morons', the 'frakkin' morons', the 'blithering idiots', the 'bubmbling(sic) noobs' and even the fat man at the buffet. 'After all, that's what being a Monk is all about' (TM) :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by annaspider on 03-13-2005 07:40 AM __________________

03-13-2005, 08:46 PM	#407
Amanojak Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	ROFLMAO

03-13-2005, 09:21 PM	#408
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	You know I'm just saying what many other people want to say to those like Nerill and Sage. They deserve any scorn given to them. __________________ ... in bed.

03-13-2005, 10:03 PM	#409
Ili Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 119	annaspider wrote: More entries from the 'Sniperkitty Zen Collection' (available from Intolerant Publications plc) Shut the hell up already... You're [Removed for Content]-peas in a pod. ...You don't have a clue what you're talking about...It's that frakkin' simple you dimwitted, idiotic, stubborn, thickheaded morons! I want to tank. I don't want versitility. I want to tank. I wanted to be a fighter. I wanted to tank. MONKS ARE TANKS. Get over it....slow and boring...I hate 'em....all of you jackhole morons... I'm sick of the stupdity...how the frak... These people must have had a labotomy or something... It's that frakkin' simple and these thick-headed morons can't understand it...Why can't we ban people for stupdity...You're a frakkin' [Removed for Content]....A blithering idiot...A bubmbling noob that doesn't have a frakkin' clue about anything...Just shut up...cancelyour account and never ever come back.... I don't want your stupidity infecting anyone else...Simple, simple, simple...End of story...Get over it. You're wrong, wrong, WRONG Got it finally? You're as stubborn as a fat man at a buffet wanting one last plate...shut up... We don't want it. so.... so SHUT UP. Rediscover your own tranquility with these and other gems. Find your own inner sense of balance in the 'I WANT I WANT' chapter, experience the 'Zen of Telling People to Shut Up' and let this timeless collection of wisdom help you to really start dealing with the 'jackhole morons', the '[Removed for Content]-peas', the 'thick-headed morons', the 'idiotic, stubborn thickheaded, morons', the 'frakkin' morons', the 'blithering idiots', the 'bubmbling(sic) noobs' and even the fat man at the buffet. 'After all, that's what being a Monk is all about' (TM) :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by annaspider on 03-13-2005 07:40 AM Now. THAT was funny. :smileyvery-happy: -Ilina

03-13-2005, 11:10 PM	#410
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Nerill wrote: Now you have resorted to acting like a child, which for all I know, you are. /shrug I'm only 8 __________________

03-14-2005, 12:39 AM	#411
Nerill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 347	[Removed for Content], annaspider :smileyvery-happy: Sage, interesting ideas. My only concern would be that if Monks would Maximize AC and Bruisers Melee Damage, wouldn't we be stepping on other classes ? Bards come to mind right off the top of my head. I'm not familiar with all class buffs. I have a 43 Monk, 20 Warden and a lv 10 Sorcerer ( who I haven't played in a couple months ). As long as your suggestions do not trample on other Classes abilities then I'd say you might be on to something. However, if they do, then I wouldn't want that as our "unique ability". :smileysad: Maybe Gangster can chime in with an idea or 2 ? __________________ Equipment

03-14-2005, 03:04 AM	#412
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	bards increase stats... not actual numbers built into the game persay. the monk class would be able to maximize defense to its lowest possible random sort of like a skill with the name...and bruisers maximize attacks to thier highest possible random. Tranquility of the monk: increases defense for all party members to the maximum extent of of its AC value. (which would make wizard and caster types damage withstanding ability more solid = and take the crazy damage spikes out of longer fights by keeping an attack that would normally do 4000hp after being mitigated... to 3600 after being mitigated. given that this is the lowest possible value for an attack from x mob) Aggression of the Bruiser: increase attack damage for all party members to the maximum extent of its attack. (which would make the parties involveds' attacks land at the highest arch of efficiency - such as if a wizards Ice Comet was supposed to hit for 5000 - but usually only registers between 3000-4000 - will now register consistently at 4000-5000 range - same with melee damage = if a weapon is supposed to do between 24-75 damage, instead of consistently hitting for 24-50 - it would hit between the 50-74 range consistently.) Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-13-2005 02:05 PM

03-14-2005, 03:08 AM	#413
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	That would be so overpowering its not even funny. They'd have to make mobs super hard with that in mind and any group w/o a monk/bruiser would get whipped. __________________

03-14-2005, 03:51 AM	#414
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	no = just when one of us is available it will be a 25% faster or easier ride offensively or defensively.. (and hey if they ever introduce Qeynos vs freeport PVP = it would balance out the sides perfectly - since all freeport is offensive and qeynos are defensive - heck yeah - its yalls defense versus our offense.. would be awesome.

03-14-2005, 04:16 AM	#415
Nerill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 347	It could work but would definately take some balancing so as not to trivialize current content. At least you are trying to offer some ideas. Something that Gage seems incapable of doing. Gage, why don't you run along and play now and let the grown-ups talk ? :smileywink: __________________ Equipment

03-14-2005, 04:58 AM	#416
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Nerill wrote: It could work but would definately take some balancing so as not to trivialize current content. At least you are trying to offer some ideas. Something that Gage seems incapable of doing. Gage, why don't you run along and play now and let the grown-ups talk ? :smileywink: Do you want me to start reporting every post like this of yours to the mods? Why don't you just leave me the hell alone. It was my opinion that Sage's idea would be overpowering. Therefore I replied and said as much. I didn't say anything about/to you, so your little childish remarks directed toward me every post need to just stop. Grow up. Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 03-13-2005 04:06 PM __________________

03-14-2005, 05:30 AM	#417
Faarwolf Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Orange County, Ca Posts: 76	Do I really have to step in to stop this verbal food-fight? Or can we just get along without my intervention. __________________ ____________________ Faarwolf No Longer the Wrath of the Mods "Where once I enforced, I shall now enjoin."

03-14-2005, 06:51 AM	#418
Nerill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 347	lol OMG Gage, first you started acting like a child .... then admited that you were acting like a child and when I treat you like one you cry and tell mommy like a child. Gage, I am a 34 year old husband and father of 2 boys ( Ages 3 and 12 ). I think I know when I see childish behavior. If you would like to continue to partake in this discussion then by all means ... do so ... answer questions that are directed at you and stop misquoting people and otherwise acting like a spoiled kid who can't get his way ! However, if you do not care to continue this discussion, then by all means, stop reading this thread and let those of us who care to make suggestions and discuss this like adults, do so. Simple enough, right ? P.S.- Sorry Faarwolf ...... /hugs ?? :smileytongue: Message Edited by Nerill on 03-13-2005 07:08 PM __________________ Equipment

03-14-2005, 07:56 AM	#419
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Nerill wrote: Gage, I am a 34 year old husband and father of 2 boys ( Ages 3 and 12 ). I think I know when I see childish behavior. If you would like to continue to partake in this discussion then by all means ... do so ... answer questions that are directed at you and stop misquoting people and otherwise acting like a spoiled kid who can't get his way ! Congratulations on having kids, plenty of people do that. I know when I see childish behavoir too I did, I posted my opinion on Sage's post, which had nothing to do with you, and yet you told me to "leave and let grown ups" have this discussion. Oh, and just because someone asks me something, doesn't mean I need to answer it. I have a choice you know. SageMarrow wrote: lol gage please stop running and telling mommy every time someone says something to or about you dude..thats soooooo not cool - I'm sorry, I thought thats what the moderators got paid for. Ensuring that these forums could be used to discuss class issues without it resorting to personal flaming because opinions differ. step up and back ur arguments or we will just let every thread get locked = so what? When threads become nothing but personal flames and attacks, they need to get locked. This thread is worse than the guardian envy thread, and it was locked. you dont stand on anything but generic propaganda and dev "quotes" that dont hold very much water cause everything is subject to change. Sage how do you think YOUR opinion or PLAYERS opinion hold more water than the developers who MAKE the changes and balance the game? thats just the way it is gage - either you bring your A game or you dont play - as i told you a long time ago - you arent good in confrontations that require you to dig within your reasoning skills because you know that common sense will say otherwise in every given situation regarding this debate about tanking - we werent originally built to be great MT's just okay ones in a pinch. Let me explain something to you. I don't talk about "my reasonings" because I'm not a dev. Common sense has nothing to do with archetype balance. We were built to be great MTs, its your opinion that we weren't. Because we can tank all the stuff that guardians can, including one x4 raid. They are supposedly great, aren't they? so nerill stop the verbal food fight - and either way gage = dont go run and tell everytime someone pinches you on the playground... Actually after about five pages of nothing but flames and provoking jabs at my intelligence/age did I report Nerill. Because Nerill doesn't view this as a balance issue, its his personal vendetta against me, he even said so himself go sit on the steps next to miss debby like the other fragile kids....(analogy only) Yeah, that's maturity. thanks Nerill wrote: Gage, first you started acting like a child .... then admited that you were acting like a child and when I treat you like one you cry and tell mommy like a child. Nah, I was merely poking fun at you because you took this from a balance discussion to personal attacks. Post after post about me and not the issues at hand. I never admitted I was acting like anything, please quote where I did You weren't treating me like a child Nerill, you were acting like one yourself. Why are you so adamant about attacking me directly? Do you feel envious of me? Threatened by me? What is it Nerill. Why can't you talk about the issues at hand and not just me? I know I'm awesome, but geez. I don't need any 34 yo male admirers ::shudder:: Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 03-13-2005 07:06 PM __________________

03-14-2005, 09:56 AM	#420
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	you dont stand on anything but generic propaganda and dev "quotes" that dont hold very much water cause everything is subject to change. Sage how do you think YOUR opinion or PLAYERS opinion hold more water than the developers who MAKE the changes and balance the game? __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____ because for the most part we ensure thier jobs? we pay thier salaries? without us there is no everquest 1 or 2? thats how i think my opinion and the players' opinions matter so much - they caught the beserker thing before it got out of hand - now our issue is one that will have to be handled with much more delicacy than a nerf. a nerf makes us useless - on either end - in comparison to a boost to scouts... the rest of the post was strictly built upon analogy- nothing more -