Pallys latest UberTank?

[Owa]

Oi!

 

I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a 27 Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:

 

ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.

 

pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94

 

The pally's is 81 and 59

Message Edited by annaspider on 02-19-2005 08:59 AM

[Styk]

ok pallies have wards and can heal themselves...also that starfall is a heavy hitter....

[OgApostrap]

Was just doing an instanced zone with a group.. level 28 pally as mt.(26 berseker did tanka  bit though) Vs the named of the zone, the healer ran out of power and the pally was able to stay alive with his own heals and such the fight while named was at 40% and the 4 or 5 friends (no arrows in any direction ), he came out of the fight still in orange and like 30% power.. named and his friends were I think 26 or 27.. he used starfall shield combo..

[Bur]

I duno, I keep ending up with paladins who can't hold agro to save their lives.

[SomeDudeCRO]

They have better aggro management abilities than we do. If they cant hold aggro, its the player or the group not the class

[buggz620]

Group with a pally alot he dont seem any diff then he was before.Dont really care who is the so called Uber Tank is as long as my own class is funtional and I can fill the role that i was ment too.

[TormEQ2]

Funny, I tend to let the monk I group with reguarly tank so I can focus on Wards/healing Ah well, the grass is always greener

 

 

[BlackW]

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annaspider wrote:

Oi!

 

I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a 27 Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:

 

ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.

 

pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94

 

The pally's is 81 and 59

Message Edited by annaspider on 02-19-2005 08:59 AM

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Since when do Paladins not get hit?  Since when can Paladins out-dps a Monk?  If he was not getting hit, why did he need to heal himself? Bah!

The Starfall is a Tier 3 weapon.  It goes bye-bye after lvl 30.

[Warg]

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annaspider wrote:

Oi!

 

I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a 27 Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered  - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:

 

ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.

 

pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94

 

The pally's is 81 and 59

Message Edited by annaspider on 02-19-2005 08:59 AM

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at lvl 27 paladins dps is crap compared to a monk's dps of the same level. we dont even have Oath strike (250dd with dot) which is a lvl 28 spell. as far as healing we're lucky we are healing around the 200s and warding around 150-200.

so to say that a lvl 27 paladin is out dps and tanking (which btw paladins are tanks, monks arent meant to be tanks. go do some research on your class) better than a level 31 monk is ridiculous.

really you think we are overpowered. go find yourself a lvl 27 paladin and grp with him. and conduct a couple experiements before complaining about something.

~nytefire, 38 paladin of blackburrow

[Ja]

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Warger wrote:

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annaspider wrote:

Oi!

I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a 27 Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:

ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.

pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94

The pally's is 81 and 59

Message Edited by annaspider on 02-19-2005 08:59 AM

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at lvl 27 paladins dps is crap compared to a monk's dps of the same level. we dont even have Oath strike (250dd with dot) which is a lvl 28 spell. as far as healing we're lucky we are healing around the 200s and warding around 150-200.

so to say that a lvl 27 paladin is out dps and tanking (which btw paladins are tanks, monks arent meant to be tanks. go do some research on your class) better than a level 31 monk is ridiculous.

really you think we are overpowered. go find yourself a lvl 27 paladin and grp with him. and conduct a couple experiements before complaining about something.

~nytefire, 38 paladin of blackburrow

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Just a quick point, but Monks ARE supposed to be tanks. Thats why we are part of the fighter tree. If we were not meant to be tanks then would we not have come from the scout (DPS) tree? Anyway, whether monks are meant to be tanks is no longer debatable. It has been said by MG on numerous occasions that we are. If there is still a perception from other classes that we are not tanks, then that is the situation that needs to be examined.

[Roble]

This is one of the most uninformed posts ever.  A post on watching someone else, of a different level with totally different gear.  Get a clue, a Paladin is a tank, a monk is a DPS.  Do Paladins rock? Hell yeah they do, but I am a 50 Paladin and I get outdamaged easily by a lower level berzerker.  So there is nothing wrong with our damage or tanking ability.  On my guild raids we have Paladins, Guardians, and Berzerkers tanking and all of them do it just as well as the other.  Tanks are fairly balanced at the moment I believe. 

 

If you want to compare a monk to another class, compare them to assassins, or swashbucklers, or some other dual wielding DPS class.  Oh and the starfall is a awesome hard hitting weapon until higher levels.

Message Edited by RobleeS on 02-20-2005 08:23 AM

[Ja]

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RobleeS wrote:

This is one of the most uninformed posts ever. A post on watching someone else, of a different level with totally different gear. Get a clue, a Paladin is a tank, a monk is a DPS. Do Paladins rock? Hell yeah they do, but I am a 50 Paladin and I get outdamaged easily by a lower level berzerker. So there is nothing wrong with our damage or tanking ability. On my guild raids we have Paladins, Guardians, and Berzerkers tanking and all of them do it just as well as the other. Tanks are fairly balanced at the moment I believe.

If you want to compare a monk to another class, compare them to assassins, or swashbucklers, or some other dual wielding DPS class. Oh and the starfall is a awesome hard hitting weapon until higher levels.

Message Edited by RobleeS on 02-20-2005 08:23 AM

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I'm going to say it again. Monks ARE Tanks. Thats the bottom line. If they are not, then that is where the problem is. Monks were created in this game to tank the same mobs as other fighters with comparable results. Monks in EQ2 are primarily a Tank class. MG has said this over and over.

[Gaige]

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RobleeS wrote:

This is one of the most uninformed posts ever.  A post on watching someone else, of a different level with totally different gear.  Get a clue, a Paladin is a tank, a monk is a DPS.  Do Paladins rock? Hell yeah they do, but I am a 50 Paladin and I get outdamaged easily by a lower level berzerker.  So there is nothing wrong with our damage or tanking ability.  On my guild raids we have Paladins, Guardians, and Berzerkers tanking and all of them do it just as well as the other.  Tanks are fairly balanced at the moment I believe. 

 

If you want to compare a monk to another class, compare them to assassins, or swashbucklers, or some other dual wielding DPS class.  Oh and the starfall is a awesome hard hitting weapon until higher levels.

Message Edited by RobleeS on 02-20-2005 08:23 AM

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Speaking of uninformed...

I for one am SICK of these threads calling such and such "uber" blah blah.  It doesn't help anything and all it does is start flames, etc.  If a class doesn't have an issue that screws with game balance, then leave them alone.

I have a lot of friends that are paladins, and they've tanked in groups and I've tanked in groups, with the same success.

What is the point of this post except to cause an arguement, which isn't needed here.

[Seomon]

This seems to be where all the cool kids are posting. I don't feel like being "My class is not teh uberist and blah de blah de blah" so I'll just say... My horse beat up your Kata.

[Owa]

Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....

[Seomon]

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annaspider wrote:

Bloody hell! I was just asking a question...I wasn't expecting a kind of Spanish Inquisition....

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Oh, hey dude, we "avoid hits better than you" because we have a Ward. Which isn't really avoiding hits, and I personally think it's a waste of good mana, but eh, some people like them. That might be why it didn't look like he was getting hit. And we're perty decent solo'ers But just because we solo perty good doesn't mean we're better tanks.

[Dimgroth]

Wow..Just Wow... first whining to get the horse nerfed then whining to get the damage nerfed, whats next you want them to take healing? Thatd make us a...lump of crap. Were decent but were not overpowered, get a life.

[Owa]

 To the previous poster,

 

 

I 'm including a copy of a post I made on the Pally boards in response to my original post here:

 

I wasn't going after anything or anyone. I don't care about the horsie thing - never did - and personally I think having a horse is part of being a Paladin and what's the point of a horse that can't run faster than its rider?

 

Having said that, I was confused as to how a pally 4 levels lower than me was soloing so much more efficiently, and if you read my post carefully you'll see that my main gripe is that I wasn't avoiding better, which, based on class level and stats, I bloody well should have been.

 

ps. I have a 31 zerker and a 31 monk and I know what nerfage is and wouldn't wish it on ANYBODY

 

And by the way, there is no need to be rude when posting your responses to other people's opinions.

[Warg]

from SoE;

 

1. Fighters use brute strength and sturdy weapons to deal physical damage to their enemies. Always at the forefront of combat, fighters stand toe to toe with opponents while keeping their allies from harm. No matter the rick, fighters never back down from a challenge.

 

 a. Brawlers specialize in physical combat styles that bring them face to face with the enemy. Favoring light armor and hand to hand battle tactics, brawlers have honed their bodies into potent weapons.

 

 a2. Monks are disciplined combants who specialize in the martial arts. Their natural agility allows them to avoid their enemy's blows and strike back with clean, efficient counter attacks.

 

 b. Crusaders are armored juggernauts that call upon divine powers to aid them in battle. Capable of dealing impressive physical damage, crusaders can wield a variety of weapons and shields.

 

 b2. Paladins are crusaders for all things good and right. Wearing heavy armor, these valiant defenders of truth fight for nobility, honor, and virtue

 

ok....thats the actual fighter tree from SOE themselves....

 

the difference between avoid dmg and asborbing damage lies in AC and HPs. at the brawler stage in your tree progression you give up heavy armor for light armor and you give up shields/weapons for preferance with hand to hand combat. which is fine, but crusaders pick up the heavy armor with the ac and picks up shields/weapons.

 

monks can tank, i will not agrue that they cant. but what im saying is that there will always be a line of whos 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on....

 

and paladins are always going to be more successful taking straight up hits (not avoiding hits) from npcs better than a monk. where a monk will deal more damage per second with better weapons/hands that have little to no delay.

 

and yes you monks are at the bottom of the fighter tree as far as tanking goes. its the same with scouts, mages and priest....

 

pretty much its like saying that a Mystic should heal better then a Templar, or that a Dirge do better dmg then an Assassin.

 

Before starting a post flaming or calling a class uber or better to complain about them. do some actual research. i dont mean go to a stragey guide or something like that. go out and find a similar lvl paladin or SK, or guardian, or zerker....whatever you want and do some Real world experiments. so you can see why he does better or worse or whatever.

 

~nytefire

 

[Owa]

Like I said... I was posting my opinions and observations. And it is not mandated anywhere - to my knowledge -  that one must conduct extensive testing in order to have either observations or opinions. I didn't parse data nor did I claim to have done so.

I understand the difference between different fighter types (as I mentioned, I have a 31 Monk AND a 31 Zerker) and was posting what appeared to be an anomaly in soloing ability between two fighters 4 levels apart.

 

I abhor nerfs and wouldn't wish them on anyone - even those who insist upon misunderstanding what I consider to be coherent posts. Having said that, I would like to think we can all agree that if the subscription fee is the same for all classes then soloing ability should be also.

 

It is, of course, possible that either my observations were incorrect and/or I'm just really bad at playing EQ2. Even if this is the case, however, I see no need for anything other than discussion of what is actually in the posts themselves, rather than insulting the posters or presuming to understand what they meant to say better than the author themselves.

 

ps. I might be rubbish at Monking, but you can see how posh I am at writing. Don't push me too far  - or I shall turn my invective upon all who stand in my way! :smileywink:

[prisoner]

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annaspider wrote:

Oi!

I'm in Zek right now (31 monk, best equipment for my level, attuned, stats raised etc) and I thought I was soloing the single orcs (30-31) pretty well. Then I see a 27 Pally with just AQ gear and Starfall slaying the same mobs better than me. Hardly getting hit, dealing out some pretty respectable DPS and healing himself if and when he did get clobbered - all with almost no downtime. What's that about? And why does he avoid hits better than me? :womanmad:

ps. This my 2nd level 31 Tank so I know how to play the game reasonably well by now.

pps My STR is 95 AGI is 94

The pally's is 81 and 59

Message Edited by annaspider on 02-19-2005 08:59 AM

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Those orcs aren't anything hard. I've seen casters in their high 20's soloing them, and scouts, and a plethora of other classes. Not sure what the big deal here is. If the paladin's life is pretty full at that level, I can almost promise you his power is pretty toast, but he/she probably had some pretty bad [FAAR-NERFED!] drink and allowed them to keep on rockin.

[Ren]

Depending on when you observed this, after the patch, heavy armor got a boost to absorbtion. The agility nerf hurt dodgers like yourself. The paladin could have taken a defensive trait. But most importantly, if he has Tier 4 drink, his power regen would allow him to heal himself and go on fighting. All he has to do is survive the fight. Then the downtime between fights would be low because of the T4 or T5 drink. If he's a provisioner and can make his own drinks, I can see that happening. That's what I'm doing but I'm only making T2 drinks but I'm working my way up. Fast power regen and a good pool of solo mobs is fantastic.

[IceVype]

No need to flipout annaspider If a paladin 4 lvls lower then you soloing better then you it pretty clear you are doing something wrong and should take a closer look at your playing style.

[Krarett]

Ok. I can tell that some Lv of some classes make a huge different. For Pld, I felt I was powerful suddenly after ding. eg. Lv 12, 22, 26.6, 28, 32... I could solo vs Orange or single group Green ^^ very good at these Lv. because I got some very nice spells. Most of them are ward or heal, or some very good dmg DD-Dot. In between, I felt very weak, sometime I went to solo some blue only... I felt it happens to some/most classes because I had similar feeling to another chars(Coe & Predator). Yes, I play 3 chars, 1 is Fighter, 1 is Scout and other one is Mage.

 

In your case, I also have experienced with a Lv 28 Pld to my Lv 31 Pld. I wore some very good equipment too. I solo some white crabs beside EL beach. He did same thing as me. He fought a bit longer compare to me but he was OK. I guessed he ate best food in his level and I usually dont eat any food if I solo White/Blue mobs. I thought he got some adept III or Master spells which I couldnt know. Actually, I got a shock a that moment. Also, do you know Starfall is our dream weapon @ Lv 2x ? It was 30g when I saw the first sell from broker.

 

IMO, Mnk is a very strong class when I group with. They always can over-aggro when after half of battle. I agree Mnk is not a crazy instant dmg dealer comparing to Wiz or Assassin. But they are best Dot-er. Also, each fighter has their strengh or weak.

 

1) Guardian = Born to be a main tank. Full def mode but med offence. Cant heal/ward.

 

2) Pld = Good to be main/sub tank. Good def but med-low offence. Can heal/ward and make him or main tank's life last longer. (We have 3 heals + 1 ward. Re-cast time are 6sec, 5min, 30min + 12sec. Cant compare to healer they have 4 different timer heals with short re-cast + spec heal.)

 

3) Shd = Good to be main/sub tank. Good def and med offence. Can ward & life trap. Can help himself life longer.

 

4) Zerker = Good to be main/sub tank. Good offence but med-low def. Cant heal/ward but many group buffs.

 

5) Brawlers = Good to be sub tank. Give up most of def and best offence fighter. Can heal himself.

Bcoz I dont know the different in between good side and evil side mnk, I group them together.

 

Most of the classes have their con and pos. No point to compare defence ability between Guardian to Monk. Also non-sense to compare offence in the other way.

[Vigilance Solarfla]

Anna,

 

I think you recieved the "Spanish Inquisition" mainly due to the title of the post. Though I understand you where just posting a question regarding your observation.

 

The reason you recieved such a responce is mainly due to the fact that many paladins are currently sore about the recent changes from the last patch and in particular to the horse changes. As such, they are sensitive to any posts that might lead to future changes to their class.

 

In this light, I think the timing had much to do with this 'Inquisition' than anything else.

 

Anways I find it rediculous for anyone regardless of their opinions to be 1 stared for stating observations or answering questions. Actually I find the whole rating system to be flawed. Ah well I'm ranting by this point.

 

~Vigilance

 

 

[Titali]

latest? i think its about time you noticed. maybe now ill get some group invites without having to solo the mobs groups are currently killing, bwahaha. btw, my fluff spell is unbalanced ahahah.

[Araknar]

1 thing i noticed that wasnt mentioned in the original post and which I think is probably the most important factor here is : You never mention what skill lvls you have (adept1-3 masters etc) and you never asked the paladin what his were. Seems likely to me that he probably had all high skills which are for all classes a massive factor on how well they do things.

 

Another thing not mentioned was time. might seem an odd thing to say but I've seen monks take out stuff same lvl as me in half the time I do (I'm lvl 28 paladin using beriks sword of thunder) though the monk may take more dmg killing the same thing he can kill 2 in the amount of time it takes me to kill 1.

 

Just thought these factors needed to be mentioned

 

Steelle

Kithicor

[Owa]

Oh...sorry. All Adept 1  with a couple of App4.

[Tag]

I saw this pic on another site and just had to post it.

 

[Owa]

That's very constructive. Thank you.

 

Clearly people's criticisms of EQ2 upset, irk or otherwise irritate you and if I've caused offense, my apologies.

 

However, I have two questions for you: firstly, what purpose - in your opinion -  do these boards serve? And secondly, why read posts at all?

 

I'm rather new to this whole MMORPG genre and any intelligent and informed pointers in forum etiquette would be appreciated.