Sunder is now Red to me at level 30...

Nadev · 03-09-2005, 06:13 AM

What was once a level 23 spell, I can now longer use. When I try to use it, it just Queues up.

-Aonein- · 03-09-2005, 06:37 AM

They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 11:38 AM

VladSpatula · 03-09-2005, 08:18 AM

This is unfortunate IMO. What will replace this skill? (other then buffs for AE hate management) Why didn't they just create a higher lvl version of "Sunder"?

SpiderlingBane · 03-09-2005, 09:20 AM

-Aonein- wrote:

They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been.

Sunder is a level 23 spell. No where in the patch notes was Sunder mentioned:

Berserker changes:
- Press will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Rupture will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Tides of War will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Bloodlust is now called Berserker: Bloodlust to prevent confusion with the Fury version of the art.
- Coup de Grace's description has been modified.

Sounds like a bug to me.

-Aonein- · 03-09-2005, 09:23 AM

Because Sunder is the upgrade to Enrage, Sunder was never meant to be where it is on the list, just took them ages to fix it. Sunder is in it's rightful spot now.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

-Aonein- · 03-09-2005, 09:30 AM

SpiderlingBane wrote:

-Aonein- wrote:

They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been.

Sunder is a level 23 spell. No where in the patch notes was Sunder mentioned:

Berserker changes:
- Press will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Rupture will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Tides of War will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Bloodlust is now called Berserker: Bloodlust to prevent confusion with the Fury version of the art.
- Coup de Grace's description has been modified.

Sounds like a bug to me.

Sunder has been a broken skill since before christmas, it was suppose to be our upgrade to Enrage, notice you dont get no AE taunt since lvl 22 ? The only way you could of got a AE taunt was to use your lvl 30 specialization to get Balok's Furious Chant, if you didnt chose that, you didnt get a new AE taunt till lvl 50 when you got Fearsome Shout, now that Sunder is where it should be, we get Sunder at lvl 36 i believe, cause at lvl 36 there was no new combat art rewarded to us upon leveling. They didnt add in there that they fixed Tides of War ethier did they ? No, and they fixed it, it use to add haste to the entire group, now it only adds haste to the Berserker, like it was suppose too, but they didnt mention that, cause they dont have to mention it.

Seems like it's fixed to me.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 02:31 PM

VladSpatula · 03-09-2005, 09:52 AM

That's great if it has been broken since before Christmas. I started my berseker in February. This page: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/classes/index.vm?classId=4 States clearly that "Sunder" is a lvl 23 skill. Not a broken lvl 36 skill. (Mind you it is a Sony.com domain, not a 3rd party of questionable information) 13 levels of difference there.

I think a explanation is in the least a polite thing...

I don't usually jump on the "oh my gosh, I've been nerfed" bandwagon. But I feel disappointed hehe ;p the description for "Sunder" is what pushed me over the edge to zerker when I was trying to finalize my decision between the 2 subclasses.

Knocking everything on their behind (well not everything has a animation hehe) just feels cool.

Having too much fun regardless, won't be changing my zerker main hehe

-Aonein- · 03-09-2005, 12:24 PM

There is one problem with that list that i have told people about before, see the date it was printed ?

Berserkers Combat Art List12/20/2004

That list was printed even before the very first big patch we ever had, we didnt have our first big patch till mid jan 2005, which that also changed some descritpions of combat arts which dont match that list to date today, so dont trust anything that list says.

Too much to list has changed sine the date on that list and i wouldnt use that list for anything till you see a current date on it.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 05:27 PM

NedDevi · 03-09-2005, 07:08 PM

I took Sunder off my toolbars ages ago, glad to see that it has been addressed.

Back then the general consensus was that it did not actually stun any mobs in the encounter (just had the falldown graphic) and only increased hate on the single mob that was targeted at the time Sunder was cast (not the whole group). How have your experiences with it been after the update, seem to be working as intended?

CherobylJ · 03-09-2005, 08:29 PM

VladSpatula wrote:

That's great if it has been broken since before Christmas. I started my berseker in February. This page: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/classes/index.vm?classId=4 States clearly that "Sunder" is a lvl 23 skill. Not a broken lvl 36 skill. (Mind you it is a Sony.com domain, not a 3rd party of questionable information) 13 levels of difference there.

I think a explanation is in the least a polite thing...

I don't usually jump on the "oh my gosh, I've been nerfed" bandwagon. But I feel disappointed hehe ;p the description for "Sunder" is what pushed me over the edge to zerker when I was trying to finalize my decision between the 2 subclasses.

Knocking everything on their behind (well not everything has a animation hehe) just feels cool.

Having too much fun regardless, won't be changing my zerker main hehe

You have a good point but even you have to admit that having Enrage/Sunder both in mid 20s on the same timer didnt make alot of sense (and left a sizable gap for the 30s Berserker). T

he fix was to correct the improper implementation from day 1; I think that SOE may not have understood fully the magnitude of their mistake back in Dec (I remember contributing to a bunch of threads about this) at that time they (and players) were obsessed with the knock down part of the spell being broken and NOT its relative placement in the hierarchy of green AE hate inducing spells (as there were few mid 30s back then!).

As a mid 20s player I can understand why this woudl honk you off, but you will be grateful to have a yellow con tool to work with now in your 30s instead of a grey one.

nofseratu · 03-09-2005, 08:40 PM

i was very displeased upon logging in to find sunder red and unusable to my level 29 berserker last night............my sunder is adept1 quality so was superior to my enrage AE taunt...now i have to use a lesser AE taunt that i cant find an adept for? i think my enrage is only app3.

and what about the new berserkers, what are they going to get at level 23 now? nothing? how would you like it if you dinged and didnt get a new skill?

i dont know what the heck they did, but it obviously wasnt posted, therefor i think it wasnt intended.......i can only hope they fix it. i used sunder all the time before the mentor patch.

Dulan · 03-09-2005, 08:45 PM

NedDevine wrote:
I took Sunder off my toolbars ages ago, glad to see that it has been addressed.

Back then the general consensus was that it did not actually stun any mobs in the encounter (just had the falldown graphic) and only increased hate on the single mob that was targeted at the time Sunder was cast (not the whole group). How have your experiences with it been after the update, seem to be working as intended?

I never found it to be broken. Yes maybe it only showed a knockdown graphic, but it deffinetely caused aggro on more then just the targetted mob. I never had too many issues keeping aggro in a group, now with enrage I have trouble just duoing with a templar, I can barely keep them off if I pull a group.

Bayl · 03-09-2005, 09:49 PM

This is a broken level 23 spell. It needs to be addressed and fixed in a hotfix. If this were a buff or a damage swing that broke - ok... but this is one of the few taunts Zerks have. As the MT of a group, keeping agro is critical. Since Wizards had damage increased, I need all the taunts I can get. Taking away an AOE Taunt and making it a level 36 spell is not acceptable.

eqfo · 03-09-2005, 10:08 PM

I kinda liked the idea of knocking them all on their cans :smileywink: and I sure don't know if I'll ever get to use it again before I'm old and gray, however, having said that.....what replaces it?? I mean come on, if I shouldn't have got it, would should I get or what did I get (don't recall getting 2) that I don't remember.

Message Edited by eqfool on 03-09-2005 01:09 PM

Tsimhno · 03-09-2005, 10:20 PM

Baylum wrote:
This is a broken level 23 spell. It needs to be addressed and fixed in a hotfix. If this were a buff or a damage swing that broke - ok... but this is one of the few taunts Zerks have. As the MT of a group, keeping agro is critical. Since Wizards had damage increased, I need all the taunts I can get.

Taking away an AOE Taunt and making it a level 36 spell is not acceptable.

hey no complaining about taunts... SKs only have 2... and we don't get our single taunt upgrade until 31.

-Aonein- · 03-09-2005, 11:26 PM

eqfool wrote:

I kinda liked the idea of knocking them all on their cans :smileywink: and I sure don't know if I'll ever get to use it again before I'm old and gray, however, having said that.....what replaces it?? I mean come on, if I shouldn't have got it, would should I get or what did I get (don't recall getting 2) that I don't remember.

Message Edited by eqfool on 03-09-2005 01:09 PM

Its order is like this, Enrage > Sunder > Fearsome Shout, all AE taunts, all on the same cast timer. Like i said before, if you didnt take the level 30 specialility and purchase Baloks Furious Chant, then you wouldnt get a AE taunt from Enrage to Fearsome Shout, thats lvl 22 Enrage to lvl 50 Fearsome Shout, once you get to around lvl 35 - 40, you need the new AE taunts you can get to offset for the huge amount of DPS Wizards and Assassins get at those levels, or you wont be holding agro for long thats for sure.

And in reguards to Berserker's not getting many taunts ? I dont have to tell you we are most likely the best agro controlling tanks in the game, ask any other tank and see what they say.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Diabol · 03-09-2005, 11:41 PM

I kind of look at sunder as an option more than an upgrade to enrage (i took baloks chant anyway), because I interpret the description as being a single target taunt and with the shout/aoe aspect of it being interrupt/knock down. I agree its mostly useless though, because it is so resistable.

Sauron · 03-10-2005, 01:18 AM

just have to use enrage now....

cr0wangel · 03-10-2005, 01:42 AM

I am level 33, my skill sunder still work fine. So it's not a level 36 skill.

FamilyManFir · 03-10-2005, 04:48 AM

nofseratu wrote:
and what about the new berserkers, what are they going to get at level 23 now? nothing? how would you like it if you dinged and didnt get a new skill?

At 23 Berserkers are supposed to get Bloodlust (hope so as I'm closing in on that level).

Avera · 03-10-2005, 06:28 AM

Well i am glad I can move Sunder off my main bar. Perhaps it was jsut me but I seemed to notice that it seemed less effective than Enrage so I was barley using it any more anyway. they just better beef it up for the lvl 36ers that get it though. if its that weak at that level.. THEN we have an issue

Blackguard · 03-10-2005, 07:24 AM

As others have pointed out, Sunder was intended to be an upgrade to Enrage. It is now granted at the appropriate level. Apologies for this change not making the update notes.

-Aonein- · 03-10-2005, 10:09 AM

Thanks very much for the reply Blackguard, appreciate that.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Dashel · 03-10-2005, 05:48 PM

Baylum wrote:This is a broken level 23 spell. It needs to be addressed and fixed in a hotfix. If this were a buff or a damage swing that broke - ok... but this is one of the few taunts Zerks have. As the MT of a group, keeping agro is critical. Since Wizards had damage increased, I need all the taunts I can get. Taking away an AOE Taunt and making it a level 36 spell is not acceptable.

Use enrage, like everyone else did. Like I still had to do before this change, at level 48.

Spaceweed · 03-10-2005, 06:21 PM

-Aonein- wrote:

SpiderlingBane wrote:

-Aonein- wrote:

They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been.

Sunder is a level 23 spell. No where in the patch notes was Sunder mentioned:

Berserker changes:
- Press will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Rupture will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Tides of War will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Bloodlust is now called Berserker: Bloodlust to prevent confusion with the Fury version of the art.
- Coup de Grace's description has been modified.

Sounds like a bug to me.

Sunder has been a broken skill since before christmas, it was suppose to be our upgrade to Enrage, notice you dont get no AE taunt since lvl 22 ? The only way you could of got a AE taunt was to use your lvl 30 specialization to get Balok's Furious Chant, if you didnt chose that, you didnt get a new AE taunt till lvl 50 when you got Fearsome Shout, now that Sunder is where it should be, we get Sunder at lvl 36 i believe, cause at lvl 36 there was no new combat art rewarded to us upon leveling. They didnt add in there that they fixed Tides of War ethier did they ? No, and they fixed it, it use to add haste to the entire group, now it only adds haste to the Berserker, like it was suppose too, but they didnt mention that, cause they dont have to mention it.

Seems like it's fixed to me.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 02:31 PM

Yes Aonein, they 'do' have to mention stuff like this - especially the fact that Sunder had been inserted into it's proper position in the spell/art list.

Why? Because luckily I happened to check 'Sunder' against 'Balok's Furious Chant', and was amazed to see it was a very useable encounter taunt when previously it had been greyed out for quite a while.

From this, I didn't feel I needed to make BFC my choice of lvl30 specialised training, and instead went for the single taunt.

Any major change to this category of the game is 'vitally' important, when player choices are involved. Thanks also to Blackguard, who realises how important this is and has apologised for the omission.

-Aonein- · 03-10-2005, 07:09 PM

Yes there probally aware of that Spaceweed and there will be more then likely more chances that arise to reroll all your triats, specializations etc. Although Sunder is a higher Taunt number then Balok's Furious Chant, there is a longer recast timer and no chance to Berserk on Sunder, which i would still chose Balok's over Sunder anyway. The difference at my level with app IV Sunder is :

Sunder Apprentice IV :

Increase Threat by 421 ( 30 second recast timer )
Deals a knockdown to all enemies in a encounter

Balok's Furious Chant Adept II :

Increase Threat by 411 ( 20 second recast timer )
Casts berserk on caster. On succesful attack this spell will :

Increase damage per second of target by 5%
Increase attack speed of target by 40% ( which is acually 46% according to /show_window mainHUD.Character )

So you have a choice, faster recast time = more taunt plus more berserk = faster kill's, or slower taunt = less taunt plus the chance to knockdown the encounter which will give you maybe 2 shoot's at interupting them per encounter, depending on group set up etc and less berserk. Balok's Furious Chant pop's berserk everytime with out fail, its great for berserk while tanking, even for a single mob taunt.

It all depends what you plan out, there is many ways a player can get the same results playing a different style, there is no such thing as the best way in this game which is good, diversity is a very positive thing.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Spaceweed · 03-10-2005, 07:17 PM

-Aonein- wrote:

Yes there probally aware of that Spaceweed and there will be more then likely more chances that arise to reroll all your triats, specializations etc. Although Sunder is a higher Taunt number then Balok's Furious Chant, there is a longer recast timer and no chance to Berserk on Sunder, which i would still chose Balok's over Sunder anyway. The difference at my level with app IV Sunder is :

Sunder Apprentice IV :

Increase Threat by 421 ( 30 second recast timer )

Deals a knockdown to all enemies in a encounter

Balok's Furious Chant Adept II :

Increase Threat by 411 ( 20 second recast timer )

Casts berserk on caster. On succesful attack this spell will :

Increase damage per second of target by 5%

Increase attack speed of target by 40% ( which is acually 46% according to /show_window mainHUD.Character )

So you have a choice, faster recast time = more taunt plus more berserk = faster kill's, or slower taunt = less taunt plus the chance to knockdown the encounter which will give you maybe 2 shoot's at interupting them per encounter, depending on group set up etc and less berserk. Balok's Furious Chant pop's berserk everytime with out fail, its great for berserk while tanking, even for a single mob taunt.

It all depends what you plan out, there is many ways a player can get the same results playing a different style, there is no such thing as the best way in this game which is good, diversity is a very positive thing.

Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

I agree with your point = diversity is what makes this game great.

I was simply making reference to the comment you made, suggesting because these issues have been aired for such a long period of time, that they needn't add fixes/alterations to the patch notes.

It is absolutely critical that they do, hence my example. I need that information to make my choice, be it right/wrong/indifferent to anybody else's.

Remember, a lot of people don't choose to read the boards but use the patch notes as their reference to changes.

Dashel · 03-10-2005, 08:43 PM

Yep point taken there Space. I wouldnt have known about the change if a friend hadnt asked me about Sunder yesterday.

reakshav · 03-11-2005, 04:52 AM

Same here I would of known about the change unless I read this post. Sunder is red to me at 35 and I cant use it yet. People that think enrage is not a good spell are nut. It the thing that makes me go beserk most.

Bisb · 03-11-2005, 07:09 AM

Fair nuff, move it to where it is supposed to be. Can I make a request and ask that the spell be lifted off my hotbar until I ding 36? This threw me for a loop last night. I thought I was stunned because the spell wouldnt go off.

Biz

ps - do us mid 20's zerkers get anything to fill that hole?

03-09-2005, 06:13 AM	#1
Nadev Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	What was once a level 23 spell, I can now longer use. When I try to use it, it just Queues up. __________________

03-09-2005, 06:37 AM	#2
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 11:38 AM Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 11:38 AM __________________

03-09-2005, 09:20 AM	#4
SpiderlingBane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 58	-Aonein- wrote: They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been. Sunder is a level 23 spell. No where in the patch notes was Sunder mentioned: Berserker changes: - Press will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Rupture will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Tides of War will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Bloodlust is now called Berserker: Bloodlust to prevent confusion with the Fury version of the art. - Coup de Grace's description has been modified. Sounds like a bug to me. __________________ Don't put beans up your nose.

03-09-2005, 09:23 AM	#5
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Because Sunder is the upgrade to Enrage, Sunder was never meant to be where it is on the list, just took them ages to fix it. Sunder is in it's rightful spot now. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server __________________

03-09-2005, 09:30 AM	#6
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	SpiderlingBane wrote: -Aonein- wrote: They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been. Sunder is a level 23 spell. No where in the patch notes was Sunder mentioned: Berserker changes: - Press will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Rupture will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Tides of War will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Bloodlust is now called Berserker: Bloodlust to prevent confusion with the Fury version of the art. - Coup de Grace's description has been modified. Sounds like a bug to me. Sunder has been a broken skill since before christmas, it was suppose to be our upgrade to Enrage, notice you dont get no AE taunt since lvl 22 ? The only way you could of got a AE taunt was to use your lvl 30 specialization to get Balok's Furious Chant, if you didnt chose that, you didnt get a new AE taunt till lvl 50 when you got Fearsome Shout, now that Sunder is where it should be, we get Sunder at lvl 36 i believe, cause at lvl 36 there was no new combat art rewarded to us upon leveling. They didnt add in there that they fixed Tides of War ethier did they ? No, and they fixed it, it use to add haste to the entire group, now it only adds haste to the Berserker, like it was suppose too, but they didnt mention that, cause they dont have to mention it. Seems like it's fixed to me. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 02:31 PM __________________

03-09-2005, 08:18 AM	#3
VladSpatula Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4	This is unfortunate IMO. What will replace this skill? (other then buffs for AE hate management) Why didn't they just create a higher lvl version of "Sunder"?

03-09-2005, 09:52 AM	#7
VladSpatula Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4	That's great if it has been broken since before Christmas. I started my berseker in February. This page: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/classes/index.vm?classId=4 States clearly that "Sunder" is a lvl 23 skill. Not a broken lvl 36 skill. (Mind you it is a Sony.com domain, not a 3rd party of questionable information) 13 levels of difference there. I think a explanation is in the least a polite thing... I don't usually jump on the "oh my gosh, I've been nerfed" bandwagon. But I feel disappointed hehe ;p the description for "Sunder" is what pushed me over the edge to zerker when I was trying to finalize my decision between the 2 subclasses. Knocking everything on their behind (well not everything has a animation hehe) just feels cool. Having too much fun regardless, won't be changing my zerker main hehe

03-09-2005, 12:24 PM	#8
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	There is one problem with that list that i have told people about before, see the date it was printed ? Berserkers Combat Art List12/20/2004 That list was printed even before the very first big patch we ever had, we didnt have our first big patch till mid jan 2005, which that also changed some descritpions of combat arts which dont match that list to date today, so dont trust anything that list says. Too much to list has changed sine the date on that list and i wouldnt use that list for anything till you see a current date on it. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 05:27 PM __________________

03-09-2005, 07:08 PM	#9
NedDevi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	I took Sunder off my toolbars ages ago, glad to see that it has been addressed. Back then the general consensus was that it did not actually stun any mobs in the encounter (just had the falldown graphic) and only increased hate on the single mob that was targeted at the time Sunder was cast (not the whole group). How have your experiences with it been after the update, seem to be working as intended?

03-09-2005, 08:29 PM	#10
CherobylJ Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 395	VladSpatula wrote: That's great if it has been broken since before Christmas. I started my berseker in February. This page: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/classes/index.vm?classId=4 States clearly that "Sunder" is a lvl 23 skill. Not a broken lvl 36 skill. (Mind you it is a Sony.com domain, not a 3rd party of questionable information) 13 levels of difference there. I think a explanation is in the least a polite thing... I don't usually jump on the "oh my gosh, I've been nerfed" bandwagon. But I feel disappointed hehe ;p the description for "Sunder" is what pushed me over the edge to zerker when I was trying to finalize my decision between the 2 subclasses. Knocking everything on their behind (well not everything has a animation hehe) just feels cool. Having too much fun regardless, won't be changing my zerker main hehe You have a good point but even you have to admit that having Enrage/Sunder both in mid 20s on the same timer didnt make alot of sense (and left a sizable gap for the 30s Berserker). T he fix was to correct the improper implementation from day 1; I think that SOE may not have understood fully the magnitude of their mistake back in Dec (I remember contributing to a bunch of threads about this) at that time they (and players) were obsessed with the knock down part of the spell being broken and NOT its relative placement in the hierarchy of green AE hate inducing spells (as there were few mid 30s back then!). As a mid 20s player I can understand why this woudl honk you off, but you will be grateful to have a yellow con tool to work with now in your 30s instead of a grey one. __________________ ---------------------- Flair Fifteenpiece - 54 Berserker of Guk, - Co-GL Infernal Requiem formerly Flair Shieldrender 70 Overlord of Fennin Ro "And as the Overlord raised his fist to the sky, the crowds cheered below. The soldiers began their familiar chant as the citizens joined in: "Strength in unity; unity in Lucan!"

03-09-2005, 08:40 PM	#11
nofseratu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	i was very displeased upon logging in to find sunder red and unusable to my level 29 berserker last night............my sunder is adept1 quality so was superior to my enrage AE taunt...now i have to use a lesser AE taunt that i cant find an adept for? i think my enrage is only app3. and what about the new berserkers, what are they going to get at level 23 now? nothing? how would you like it if you dinged and didnt get a new skill? i dont know what the heck they did, but it obviously wasnt posted, therefor i think it wasnt intended.......i can only hope they fix it. i used sunder all the time before the mentor patch. __________________

03-09-2005, 08:45 PM	#12
Dulan Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	NedDevine wrote: I took Sunder off my toolbars ages ago, glad to see that it has been addressed. Back then the general consensus was that it did not actually stun any mobs in the encounter (just had the falldown graphic) and only increased hate on the single mob that was targeted at the time Sunder was cast (not the whole group). How have your experiences with it been after the update, seem to be working as intended? I never found it to be broken. Yes maybe it only showed a knockdown graphic, but it deffinetely caused aggro on more then just the targetted mob. I never had too many issues keeping aggro in a group, now with enrage I have trouble just duoing with a templar, I can barely keep them off if I pull a group.

03-09-2005, 09:49 PM	#13
Bayl Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	This is a broken level 23 spell. It needs to be addressed and fixed in a hotfix. If this were a buff or a damage swing that broke - ok... but this is one of the few taunts Zerks have. As the MT of a group, keeping agro is critical. Since Wizards had damage increased, I need all the taunts I can get. Taking away an AOE Taunt and making it a level 36 spell is not acceptable. __________________ Backbiter Furhire

03-09-2005, 10:08 PM	#14
eqfo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 15	I kinda liked the idea of knocking them all on their cans :smileywink: and I sure don't know if I'll ever get to use it again before I'm old and gray, however, having said that.....what replaces it?? I mean come on, if I shouldn't have got it, would should I get or what did I get (don't recall getting 2) that I don't remember. Message Edited by eqfool on 03-09-2005 01:09 PM

03-09-2005, 10:20 PM	#15
Tsimhno General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bay Area CA or Southern OR Posts: 113	Baylum wrote: This is a broken level 23 spell. It needs to be addressed and fixed in a hotfix. If this were a buff or a damage swing that broke - ok... but this is one of the few taunts Zerks have. As the MT of a group, keeping agro is critical. Since Wizards had damage increased, I need all the taunts I can get. Taking away an AOE Taunt and making it a level 36 spell is not acceptable. hey no complaining about taunts... SKs only have 2... and we don't get our single taunt upgrade until 31.

03-09-2005, 11:26 PM	#16
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	eqfool wrote: I kinda liked the idea of knocking them all on their cans :smileywink: and I sure don't know if I'll ever get to use it again before I'm old and gray, however, having said that.....what replaces it?? I mean come on, if I shouldn't have got it, would should I get or what did I get (don't recall getting 2) that I don't remember. Message Edited by eqfool on 03-09-2005 01:09 PM Its order is like this, Enrage > Sunder > Fearsome Shout, all AE taunts, all on the same cast timer. Like i said before, if you didnt take the level 30 specialility and purchase Baloks Furious Chant, then you wouldnt get a AE taunt from Enrage to Fearsome Shout, thats lvl 22 Enrage to lvl 50 Fearsome Shout, once you get to around lvl 35 - 40, you need the new AE taunts you can get to offset for the huge amount of DPS Wizards and Assassins get at those levels, or you wont be holding agro for long thats for sure. And in reguards to Berserker's not getting many taunts ? I dont have to tell you we are most likely the best agro controlling tanks in the game, ask any other tank and see what they say. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server __________________

03-09-2005, 11:41 PM	#17
Diabol Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 124	I kind of look at sunder as an option more than an upgrade to enrage (i took baloks chant anyway), because I interpret the description as being a single target taunt and with the shout/aoe aspect of it being interrupt/knock down. I agree its mostly useless though, because it is so resistable.

03-10-2005, 01:18 AM	#18
Sauron General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	just have to use enrage now....

03-10-2005, 01:42 AM	#19
cr0wangel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 594	I am level 33, my skill sunder still work fine. So it's not a level 36 skill.

03-10-2005, 04:48 AM	#20
FamilyManFir Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 499	nofseratu wrote: and what about the new berserkers, what are they going to get at level 23 now? nothing? how would you like it if you dinged and didnt get a new skill? At 23 Berserkers are supposed to get Bloodlust (hope so as I'm closing in on that level).

03-10-2005, 06:28 AM	#21
Avera Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3	Well i am glad I can move Sunder off my main bar. Perhaps it was jsut me but I seemed to notice that it seemed less effective than Enrage so I was barley using it any more anyway. they just better beef it up for the lvl 36ers that get it though. if its that weak at that level.. THEN we have an issue

03-10-2005, 07:24 AM	#22
Blackguard Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 686	As others have pointed out, Sunder was intended to be an upgrade to Enrage. It is now granted at the appropriate level. Apologies for this change not making the update notes. __________________ Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder Community Relations Manager Custodian of the Nerfbat

03-10-2005, 10:09 AM	#23
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Thanks very much for the reply Blackguard, appreciate that. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server __________________

03-10-2005, 05:48 PM	#24
Dashel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 189	Baylum wrote:This is a broken level 23 spell. It needs to be addressed and fixed in a hotfix. If this were a buff or a damage swing that broke - ok... but this is one of the few taunts Zerks have. As the MT of a group, keeping agro is critical. Since Wizards had damage increased, I need all the taunts I can get. Taking away an AOE Taunt and making it a level 36 spell is not acceptable. Use enrage, like everyone else did. Like I still had to do before this change, at level 48. __________________ Dashel Berserker Najena Server

03-10-2005, 06:21 PM	#25
Spaceweed Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BDTBL Posts: 197	-Aonein- wrote: SpiderlingBane wrote: -Aonein- wrote: They have fixed a few spell's it seems, ToW no longer add's haste to the group anymore ethier. Sunder is now Yellow to me at lvl 42 where it should of alway been. Sunder is a level 23 spell. No where in the patch notes was Sunder mentioned: Berserker changes: - Press will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Rupture will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Tides of War will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Bloodlust is now called Berserker: Bloodlust to prevent confusion with the Fury version of the art. - Coup de Grace's description has been modified. Sounds like a bug to me. Sunder has been a broken skill since before christmas, it was suppose to be our upgrade to Enrage, notice you dont get no AE taunt since lvl 22 ? The only way you could of got a AE taunt was to use your lvl 30 specialization to get Balok's Furious Chant, if you didnt chose that, you didnt get a new AE taunt till lvl 50 when you got Fearsome Shout, now that Sunder is where it should be, we get Sunder at lvl 36 i believe, cause at lvl 36 there was no new combat art rewarded to us upon leveling. They didnt add in there that they fixed Tides of War ethier did they ? No, and they fixed it, it use to add haste to the entire group, now it only adds haste to the Berserker, like it was suppose too, but they didnt mention that, cause they dont have to mention it. Seems like it's fixed to me. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-2005 02:31 PM Yes Aonein, they 'do' have to mention stuff like this - especially the fact that Sunder had been inserted into it's proper position in the spell/art list. Why? Because luckily I happened to check 'Sunder' against 'Balok's Furious Chant', and was amazed to see it was a very useable encounter taunt when previously it had been greyed out for quite a while. From this, I didn't feel I needed to make BFC my choice of lvl30 specialised training, and instead went for the single taunt. Any major change to this category of the game is 'vitally' important, when player choices are involved. Thanks also to Blackguard, who realises how important this is and has apologised for the omission. __________________ ____________________________________________ 'You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but, you can't please all of the people all of the time.'

03-10-2005, 07:09 PM	#26
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Yes there probally aware of that Spaceweed and there will be more then likely more chances that arise to reroll all your triats, specializations etc. Although Sunder is a higher Taunt number then Balok's Furious Chant, there is a longer recast timer and no chance to Berserk on Sunder, which i would still chose Balok's over Sunder anyway. The difference at my level with app IV Sunder is : Sunder Apprentice IV : Increase Threat by 421 ( 30 second recast timer ) Deals a knockdown to all enemies in a encounter Balok's Furious Chant Adept II : Increase Threat by 411 ( 20 second recast timer ) Casts berserk on caster. On succesful attack this spell will : Increase damage per second of target by 5% Increase attack speed of target by 40% ( which is acually 46% according to /show_window mainHUD.Character ) So you have a choice, faster recast time = more taunt plus more berserk = faster kill's, or slower taunt = less taunt plus the chance to knockdown the encounter which will give you maybe 2 shoot's at interupting them per encounter, depending on group set up etc and less berserk. Balok's Furious Chant pop's berserk everytime with out fail, its great for berserk while tanking, even for a single mob taunt. It all depends what you plan out, there is many ways a player can get the same results playing a different style, there is no such thing as the best way in this game which is good, diversity is a very positive thing. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server __________________

03-10-2005, 07:17 PM	#27
Spaceweed Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BDTBL Posts: 197	-Aonein- wrote: Yes there probally aware of that Spaceweed and there will be more then likely more chances that arise to reroll all your triats, specializations etc. Although Sunder is a higher Taunt number then Balok's Furious Chant, there is a longer recast timer and no chance to Berserk on Sunder, which i would still chose Balok's over Sunder anyway. The difference at my level with app IV Sunder is : Sunder Apprentice IV : Increase Threat by 421 ( 30 second recast timer ) Deals a knockdown to all enemies in a encounter Balok's Furious Chant Adept II : Increase Threat by 411 ( 20 second recast timer ) Casts berserk on caster. On succesful attack this spell will : Increase damage per second of target by 5% Increase attack speed of target by 40% ( which is acually 46% according to /show_window mainHUD.Character ) So you have a choice, faster recast time = more taunt plus more berserk = faster kill's, or slower taunt = less taunt plus the chance to knockdown the encounter which will give you maybe 2 shoot's at interupting them per encounter, depending on group set up etc and less berserk. Balok's Furious Chant pop's berserk everytime with out fail, its great for berserk while tanking, even for a single mob taunt. It all depends what you plan out, there is many ways a player can get the same results playing a different style, there is no such thing as the best way in this game which is good, diversity is a very positive thing. Taemek Frozenberg 42th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server I agree with your point = diversity is what makes this game great. I was simply making reference to the comment you made, suggesting because these issues have been aired for such a long period of time, that they needn't add fixes/alterations to the patch notes. It is absolutely critical that they do, hence my example. I need that information to make my choice, be it right/wrong/indifferent to anybody else's. Remember, a lot of people don't choose to read the boards but use the patch notes as their reference to changes. __________________ ____________________________________________ 'You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but, you can't please all of the people all of the time.'

03-10-2005, 08:43 PM	#28
Dashel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 189	Yep point taken there Space. I wouldnt have known about the change if a friend hadnt asked me about Sunder yesterday. __________________ Dashel Berserker Najena Server

03-11-2005, 04:52 AM	#29
reakshav Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 121	Same here I would of known about the change unless I read this post. Sunder is red to me at 35 and I cant use it yet. People that think enrage is not a good spell are nut. It the thing that makes me go beserk most.

03-11-2005, 07:09 AM	#30
Bisb Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Fair nuff, move it to where it is supposed to be. Can I make a request and ask that the spell be lifted off my hotbar until I ding 36? This threw me for a loop last night. I thought I was stunned because the spell wouldnt go off. Biz ps - do us mid 20's zerkers get anything to fill that hole?