What if you have a guard and zerk in the same group?

Fundi · 12-09-2004, 03:33 PM

This occurs a lot in the groups I'm in. I'm a berserker btw. Imo, if you have a guard MTing when you have a berserker in the group, you're wasting a slot in the group. Don't pick up a berserker if you have a guardian MTing. Berserkers can deal good damage, yes, but unlike a scout, we have no evade skills to keep aggro off of us when not MTing. If a berserker activates Bloodlust (or goes berserk), he'll do great damage, but will always pull aggro off of the MT. If he doesn't use it, it's just like having 2 guardians in the group. The berserker's damage will suck since he isn't going berserk.

If you have a guard and a zerk in the same group, always have the berserker tank. Zerks are useless when not tanking, while guardians are still useful when they aren't. Have the guardian use his shielding moves to intercept damage since going berserk sacrifices defense for offense. I wouldn't recommend having a guard and a zerk in the same group, but if those are the only slot fillers avaliable, that's the strategy you should use imo. I'd like to hear if anyone has anymore tactics to use in this situation.

P.S. - For all you guardians out there, don't tell me that I'm grouping with crappy guardians and that's why I'm pulling aggro from them. I've grouped with the best guards on my server. Also, I'm not buffing during battle when not tanking. I activate bloodlust before every battle, not during.

GenesisForgot · 12-09-2004, 03:37 PM

This is the strat I've been using -If you have a well equiped Zerker with better armor/shield/level than the guardian, have him MT and have the Guardian use his 2 guard abilities that block/parry dmg (not the absorbtion ones since he has less AC/mitigation than the zerker). This is a great combo. The Zerker becomes a better tank, has insane aggro, and the Guardian can focus entirely on group buffs / dmg (I have weps for this specifically).If you have a high level guardian with good AC/etc. don't bother with a lower level zerker. They are worthless as they will either generate obscene hate with bloodlust, screwing over group cohesion, or they will sit sideline without bloodlust and not contribute like they could. Get a scout or mage or chanter instead.This is not an issue with any other class. If I pick up a lower level monk, bruiser, SK, or Paladin they can offtank fine and do whatever they want. Scouts, Mages, Clerics can do whatever they want too and the MT will not have issues. The second you throw in that offtanking zerker the whole situation goes to hell or you are wasting a slot that could be better utilized.Just my observations.

Fundi · 12-09-2004, 03:50 PM

I totally agree with you. Either the devs need to make guards generate more hate so that berserkers can actually go berserk when not tanking (I would hate to see them do this btw), or the strategies above should be used in groups. One of the main problems I have encountered though is that some people automatically assume that the guard can tank better (due to their name and EQ misconceptions) than the berserker and when the guard is appointed MT, say things like "Only one tank please" and "Quit taunting" and "Stop buffing during battle". Pisses me off. As a berserker, you can either go berserk, or not contribute anything to the group. If we go berserk, we get aggro. It's that simple. I wish this was printed in the manual somewhere to dispell all these misconceptions.

Message Edited by Fundinn on 12-09-2004 02:50 AM

asteldian · 12-09-2004, 04:42 PM

Im pretty sure they didnt intend for bloodlust to cause quite so much aggro, and if they did then it was an error in judgement, the aggro from it needs to be reduced because it cause too many problems-all the tank clases contribute well to group even as a secondary tank but due to the zerkers high aggro from bloodlust it prevents him from being secondary tank without interfering with main tank

Ryutsu · 12-10-2004, 01:55 AM

The strat of Berserker MT/Guardian support has been working very well for me so far... relevant because I play a Berserker and a RL friend plays a Guardian. We do just fine as a pair in groups, though.

Feral R · 12-10-2004, 06:27 AM

Sigh, another short sighted berzerker 9-( We have other ways of doing damage besides Bloodlust. It's just that you havent figured it out, thats all. There are ways to be more then just another Guardian for damage in a group. But if you think that being berzerk is the ONLY way...

Fundi · 12-12-2004, 02:39 AM

Would you like to tell me some of those other ways that we do damage besides using our berserk skills? I'd really like to know them because with the misconceptions about berserkers, I'm almost always used as "DPS".

Nuvi · 12-12-2004, 03:48 PM

usually when that happens and we are same level or he abit lower,i tank and the guardian is sucking up some of my dmg,works very well.

dragu · 12-13-2004, 08:33 AM

berserker and guardian are both tanks.

But Zerker do dmg to steal agro so naturally a zerker will steal agro from a guardian especially using bloodlust.

I often party with a guardian, well I got a lot of guardians friends, it's simple I dont use bloodlust. I just back up tank when the guardian is too weak I steal agro from him and generally finish what's left of mobs if that ever happens.

Any zerker can steal agro from any other classes, the thing is to play what best for the group, if your group want the guardian to tank which will be often the case, just make sure you don't steal agro that's all.

Fenr · 12-13-2004, 09:07 AM

I am a 27 Zerk and have grouped with lower level Guardians. Be patient is my advice. A good guardian will use his taunts countiuously. Also let the MT go for a couple rounds of combat before you engage. They can usually keep aggro til most mobs are in the red. If he is still having trouble and you find yourself getting beat up before the mobs are half dead, switch to a big 2-hander. With zerk you are still moving fast and doing some big damage but it seems easier for guardians to keep aggro. Just my 2 cents. It works for me. I always go bezerk unless I am MT.

Golr · 12-13-2004, 07:02 PM

I came looking for the answer on this as well. I don't believe that you should eliminiate us from a group if you have a Guardian. I use Blood Lust in a fight and it works well, it's just a matter of timing. I will typically wait until a mob is around 2 bubbles down and than give a warning to the MT that I am starting to rage. The MT will than throw periodic taunts while I rage. Occasionaly I may pull taunt, but the mob is usually down to a bubble or two of health. Backup healer or main healer can easily keep you healed for that last little bit.

The benefits of the zerker to a group?

If you have a good zerker, you have a good backup tank and someone who can give a bit of DPS at the end of a fight.

Fundi · 12-13-2004, 08:40 PM

I guess that's what I'm going to have to start doing. Wait til the mob is low orange or red and then kick in bloodlust. I don't know if this will work though. The initial activation of bloodlust might take aggro away.

LumpyD · 12-13-2004, 08:51 PM

33 zerk here. Learn you play your zerk man.. we are VERY good DPS. Stand Firm will occasionally activate your berzerk (just a lil FYI for ya.. yea...oh and it helps the main tank.. ya.. )

Also.. zerks are awesome for grouped mobs. Scouts out damage us on single encounters, but who cares, bring me 3, 4,5.. 6 mobs, and I'll unleash some serious damage. Couple me with a Wizard and another AE'r and watch groups of mobs fall like they never fixed Blood Rage.. SMILEY

You can still use bloodlust or if you want, leave focus rage up and move to the front of the mob once in a while. You are SURE to get a riposte (thanks to uber mob abilities!!!!) and that will trigger some zerk'ing action for you.

12-09-2004, 03:33 PM	#1
Fundi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	This occurs a lot in the groups I'm in. I'm a berserker btw. Imo, if you have a guard MTing when you have a berserker in the group, you're wasting a slot in the group. Don't pick up a berserker if you have a guardian MTing. Berserkers can deal good damage, yes, but unlike a scout, we have no evade skills to keep aggro off of us when not MTing. If a berserker activates Bloodlust (or goes berserk), he'll do great damage, but will always pull aggro off of the MT. If he doesn't use it, it's just like having 2 guardians in the group. The berserker's damage will suck since he isn't going berserk. If you have a guard and a zerk in the same group, always have the berserker tank. Zerks are useless when not tanking, while guardians are still useful when they aren't. Have the guardian use his shielding moves to intercept damage since going berserk sacrifices defense for offense. I wouldn't recommend having a guard and a zerk in the same group, but if those are the only slot fillers avaliable, that's the strategy you should use imo. I'd like to hear if anyone has anymore tactics to use in this situation. P.S. - For all you guardians out there, don't tell me that I'm grouping with crappy guardians and that's why I'm pulling aggro from them. I've grouped with the best guards on my server. Also, I'm not buffing during battle when not tanking. I activate bloodlust before every battle, not during. __________________ Fundinn - Befallen

12-09-2004, 03:50 PM	#3
Fundi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	I totally agree with you. Either the devs need to make guards generate more hate so that berserkers can actually go berserk when not tanking (I would hate to see them do this btw), or the strategies above should be used in groups. One of the main problems I have encountered though is that some people automatically assume that the guard can tank better (due to their name and EQ misconceptions) than the berserker and when the guard is appointed MT, say things like "Only one tank please" and "Quit taunting" and "Stop buffing during battle". Pisses me off. As a berserker, you can either go berserk, or not contribute anything to the group. If we go berserk, we get aggro. It's that simple. I wish this was printed in the manual somewhere to dispell all these misconceptions. Message Edited by Fundinn on 12-09-2004 02:50 AM __________________ Fundinn - Befallen

12-10-2004, 06:27 AM	#6
Feral R Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	Sigh, another short sighted berzerker 9-( We have other ways of doing damage besides Bloodlust. It's just that you havent figured it out, thats all. There are ways to be more then just another Guardian for damage in a group. But if you think that being berzerk is the ONLY way... __________________ Size does NOT matter! (Rawarr... squeek)

12-12-2004, 02:39 AM	#7
Fundi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Would you like to tell me some of those other ways that we do damage besides using our berserk skills? I'd really like to know them because with the misconceptions about berserkers, I'm almost always used as "DPS". __________________ Fundinn - Befallen

12-13-2004, 08:33 AM	#9
dragu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 44	berserker and guardian are both tanks. But Zerker do dmg to steal agro so naturally a zerker will steal agro from a guardian especially using bloodlust. I often party with a guardian, well I got a lot of guardians friends, it's simple I dont use bloodlust. I just back up tank when the guardian is too weak I steal agro from him and generally finish what's left of mobs if that ever happens. Any zerker can steal agro from any other classes, the thing is to play what best for the group, if your group want the guardian to tank which will be often the case, just make sure you don't steal agro that's all. __________________ Malefique lvl 35 dark elf Berserker -nektulos

12-09-2004, 03:37 PM	#2
GenesisForgot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 223	This is the strat I've been using -If you have a well equiped Zerker with better armor/shield/level than the guardian, have him MT and have the Guardian use his 2 guard abilities that block/parry dmg (not the absorbtion ones since he has less AC/mitigation than the zerker). This is a great combo. The Zerker becomes a better tank, has insane aggro, and the Guardian can focus entirely on group buffs / dmg (I have weps for this specifically).If you have a high level guardian with good AC/etc. don't bother with a lower level zerker. They are worthless as they will either generate obscene hate with bloodlust, screwing over group cohesion, or they will sit sideline without bloodlust and not contribute like they could. Get a scout or mage or chanter instead.This is not an issue with any other class. If I pick up a lower level monk, bruiser, SK, or Paladin they can offtank fine and do whatever they want. Scouts, Mages, Clerics can do whatever they want too and the MT will not have issues. The second you throw in that offtanking zerker the whole situation goes to hell or you are wasting a slot that could be better utilized.Just my observations.

12-09-2004, 04:42 PM	#4
asteldian Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 199	Im pretty sure they didnt intend for bloodlust to cause quite so much aggro, and if they did then it was an error in judgement, the aggro from it needs to be reduced because it cause too many problems-all the tank clases contribute well to group even as a secondary tank but due to the zerkers high aggro from bloodlust it prevents him from being secondary tank without interfering with main tank

12-10-2004, 01:55 AM	#5
Ryutsu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	The strat of Berserker MT/Guardian support has been working very well for me so far... relevant because I play a Berserker and a RL friend plays a Guardian. We do just fine as a pair in groups, though.

12-12-2004, 03:48 PM	#8
Nuvi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	usually when that happens and we are same level or he abit lower,i tank and the guardian is sucking up some of my dmg,works very well.

12-13-2004, 09:07 AM	#10
Fenr General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	I am a 27 Zerk and have grouped with lower level Guardians. Be patient is my advice. A good guardian will use his taunts countiuously. Also let the MT go for a couple rounds of combat before you engage. They can usually keep aggro til most mobs are in the red. If he is still having trouble and you find yourself getting beat up before the mobs are half dead, switch to a big 2-hander. With zerk you are still moving fast and doing some big damage but it seems easier for guardians to keep aggro. Just my 2 cents. It works for me. I always go bezerk unless I am MT.

12-13-2004, 07:02 PM	#11
Golr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	I came looking for the answer on this as well. I don't believe that you should eliminiate us from a group if you have a Guardian. I use Blood Lust in a fight and it works well, it's just a matter of timing. I will typically wait until a mob is around 2 bubbles down and than give a warning to the MT that I am starting to rage. The MT will than throw periodic taunts while I rage. Occasionaly I may pull taunt, but the mob is usually down to a bubble or two of health. Backup healer or main healer can easily keep you healed for that last little bit. The benefits of the zerker to a group? If you have a good zerker, you have a good backup tank and someone who can give a bit of DPS at the end of a fight. __________________ Kaledin Barbarian Berzerker of the 24th lvl

12-13-2004, 08:40 PM	#12
Fundi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	I guess that's what I'm going to have to start doing. Wait til the mob is low orange or red and then kick in bloodlust. I don't know if this will work though. The initial activation of bloodlust might take aggro away. __________________ Fundinn - Befallen

12-13-2004, 08:51 PM	#13
LumpyD Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 229	33 zerk here. Learn you play your zerk man.. we are VERY good DPS. Stand Firm will occasionally activate your berzerk (just a lil FYI for ya.. yea...oh and it helps the main tank.. ya.. ) Also.. zerks are awesome for grouped mobs. Scouts out damage us on single encounters, but who cares, bring me 3, 4,5.. 6 mobs, and I'll unleash some serious damage. Couple me with a Wizard and another AE'r and watch groups of mobs fall like they never fixed Blood Rage.. You can still use bloodlust or if you want, leave focus rage up and move to the front of the mob once in a while. You are SURE to get a riposte (thanks to uber mob abilities!!!!) and that will trigger some zerk'ing action for you.