Guardian Positioning during battle

Pepito{WpH} · 07-06-2006, 03:34 AM

Hello all,

I had a question about tanking. I was in a dispute one night about jumping over the targets when tanking to have their backs facing the group. Making it easier for scouts since they don't have to run around them. My question is does it make a difference? In other words do your group members hit more often from behind the enemy then facing them. Am I wasting my time if I am not grouped with a scout to jump over the enemy so that they are not facing my group. I know it's an advantage to me because it allows me to see if a new group has popped or spawned next to my allies. But does this really have any other group benefits.

Bhuhdiy · 07-06-2006, 03:53 AM

Some mobs have frontal AE damage. Most drakotas for example have Fire Breath, which hits all targets in front of them. Other mobs, such as the droags deeper in Halls of Fate, have melee attacks that hit up to 4 targets in front of them. It's just good habit to always turn mobs away from the group/raid.

coochic · 07-06-2006, 10:52 AM

Aye, i've always turned my mobs, it's easy to see if you lose aggro that way. And scouts are most effective from the back anyways, I always found it a good habit to let the rest of the group have the back of the mob.

steveatk · 07-06-2006, 01:44 PM

Not only that, it also means that anyone melee attacking from behind (any class) will not be taking riposte damage and will not be parried - hence more hits landing and the mob dies faster.

Bantel · 07-06-2006, 11:59 PM

Benefits from turning the mob(s):

prevent directional melee from mob to group
prevent directional spells from mob to group
no riposte to group members/pets
negates the mobs parry/block
all back styles for all classes become available
pets will last longer (due to no mob melee/spell frontal damage)
easy to see when you've lost aggro
easy to see adds to group (play in 3rd person always)
It's fun

Message Edited by Bantel on 07-06-2006 01:00 PM

Delil · 07-07-2006, 05:15 PM

Bantel wrote:

Benefits from turning the mob(s):

prevent directional melee from mob to group

prevent directional spells from mob to group

no riposte to group members/pets

negates the mobs parry/block

all back styles for all classes become available

pets will last longer (due to no mob melee/spell frontal damage)

easy to see when you've lost aggro

easy to see adds to group (play in 3rd person always)

It's fun

Message Edited by Bantel on 07-06-2006 01:00 PM

Well Bantel point it out very clear, turn them around all the time. It's for the benefit of the group.

I got myself used to doing it and if I'm on a pick up group I make sure to tell them that I will be turning the mobs unless risking adds, so everything is clear from the beggining.

Message Edited by Delilie on 07-07-2006 06:16 AM

Berek_IronAxe · 07-07-2006, 05:52 PM

Always turn the mob. There are times when it is impossible to completely turn the mob but every possible method should be used to at least rotate the mob so the flanks are facing the party at those times.

Rodney · 07-14-2006, 10:46 AM

Ya know the group members can MOVE to the back of the mob !Every group member worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] knows to be on the mobs back. One of the tanks job's is to CONTROL the mobs position for the safty of the group. Now there are times its good to turn the mob but its not very offen that it over rules mob position. The Den comes to mind for one.I rank it something like this#1 mob position#2 tank position, you need to be watching for adds, you need to keep mobs off your back.#3 then I turn the mob or mobs.unless its a boss mob then 1 and 2 are worked out ahead of time and turning the mob moves up.

TuinalOfTheNexus · 07-17-2006, 08:55 PM

Strange - I always turn mobs in Den and never had a problem.

The only places it gets bumped down in my priority list is when the mobs have knockback. HoF is the most prominent example, yet ironically also one of the most important places to turn mobs thanks to that frontal AE from the skarize centurions. The funny thing about HoF is how it loads the challenge of the zone almost entirely on the tank ~ if you're doing your job right it's no harder for a healer than any other instance, and DPS have their standard button-mashing role. If you're doing it wrong you get stunned and knockbacked into 20 adds whilst the original mob 1-shots half the group with an AE.

Belce · 07-18-2006, 03:40 AM

Positioning the mob in a way that is best for you and your group is important. You want to do it so that the fight location is as safe as possible. This means in a way that helps minimize damage to your party during the fight, reduces the chance for adds during the fight and also gives your group good coverage of possible wanderers getting close. Turning the mob is a normal best practice for exp groups and normal dungeon crawls. For epic encounters positioning is determined by the encounter. So its best practice to turn the mob, imo. But saying something is best practice does not mean its a commandment, like though shall keep agro. Always the situation you are pulling in and the target should play a role in how you position. And like any landing you can walk away from, any fight you can walk away from was a good fight. What is important is to keep your group on the same page as you regarding how you will pull, position.

07-06-2006, 01:44 PM	#4
steveatk Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	Not only that, it also means that anyone melee attacking from behind (any class) will not be taking riposte damage and will not be parried - hence more hits landing and the mob dies faster. __________________ Takauri - 90 Guardian - Guild Leader & Main Tank Aerin - 90 Illusionist Amberle - 90 Warden

07-06-2006, 11:59 PM	#5
Bantel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Benefits from turning the mob(s): prevent directional melee from mob to group prevent directional spells from mob to group no riposte to group members/pets negates the mobs parry/block all back styles for all classes become available pets will last longer (due to no mob melee/spell frontal damage) easy to see when you've lost aggro easy to see adds to group (play in 3rd person always) It's fun Message Edited by Bantel on 07-06-2006 01:00 PM __________________ Klug Svear 70 Guardian Co-Guild Leader of Triumph Befallen server

07-07-2006, 05:15 PM	#6
Delil Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 34	Bantel wrote: Benefits from turning the mob(s): prevent directional melee from mob to group prevent directional spells from mob to group no riposte to group members/pets negates the mobs parry/block all back styles for all classes become available pets will last longer (due to no mob melee/spell frontal damage) easy to see when you've lost aggro easy to see adds to group (play in 3rd person always) It's fun Message Edited by Bantel on 07-06-2006 01:00 PM Well Bantel point it out very clear, turn them around all the time. It's for the benefit of the group. I got myself used to doing it and if I'm on a pick up group I make sure to tell them that I will be turning the mobs unless risking adds, so everything is clear from the beggining. Message Edited by Delilie on 07-07-2006 06:16 AM __________________ Guy De Alsace wrote: This is Everquest after all not Evergrind. I dont want to farm instances for the best loot, I want to quest for it.

07-07-2006, 05:52 PM	#7
Berek_IronAxe Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 181	Always turn the mob. There are times when it is impossible to completely turn the mob but every possible method should be used to at least rotate the mob so the flanks are facing the party at those times. __________________ Berek Ironaxe: 70th Dwarven Guardian, Member: Dark Crusaders Rivenn Firestorm: 59th Human Wizard Tahlathire Wildrunner: 49th Wood Elf Ranger Nektulos Server

07-14-2006, 10:46 AM	#8
Rodney Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	Ya know the group members can MOVE to the back of the mob !Every group member worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] knows to be on the mobs back. One of the tanks job's is to CONTROL the mobs position for the safty of the group. Now there are times its good to turn the mob but its not very offen that it over rules mob position. The Den comes to mind for one.I rank it something like this#1 mob position#2 tank position, you need to be watching for adds, you need to keep mobs off your back.#3 then I turn the mob or mobs.unless its a boss mob then 1 and 2 are worked out ahead of time and turning the mob moves up. __________________ Rodney Legs

07-06-2006, 03:34 AM	#1
Pepito{WpH} Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3	Hello all, I had a question about tanking. I was in a dispute one night about jumping over the targets when tanking to have their backs facing the group. Making it easier for scouts since they don't have to run around them. My question is does it make a difference? In other words do your group members hit more often from behind the enemy then facing them. Am I wasting my time if I am not grouped with a scout to jump over the enemy so that they are not facing my group. I know it's an advantage to me because it allows me to see if a new group has popped or spawned next to my allies. But does this really have any other group benefits.

07-06-2006, 03:53 AM	#2
Bhuhdiy Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 59	Some mobs have frontal AE damage. Most drakotas for example have Fire Breath, which hits all targets in front of them. Other mobs, such as the droags deeper in Halls of Fate, have melee attacks that hit up to 4 targets in front of them. It's just good habit to always turn mobs away from the group/raid. __________________ Inigo Shoukin Nektulos

07-06-2006, 10:52 AM	#3
coochic Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	Aye, i've always turned my mobs, it's easy to see if you lose aggro that way. And scouts are most effective from the back anyways, I always found it a good habit to let the rest of the group have the back of the mob.

07-17-2006, 08:55 PM	#9
TuinalOfTheNexus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 589	Strange - I always turn mobs in Den and never had a problem. The only places it gets bumped down in my priority list is when the mobs have knockback. HoF is the most prominent example, yet ironically also one of the most important places to turn mobs thanks to that frontal AE from the skarize centurions. The funny thing about HoF is how it loads the challenge of the zone almost entirely on the tank ~ if you're doing your job right it's no harder for a healer than any other instance, and DPS have their standard button-mashing role. If you're doing it wrong you get stunned and knockbacked into 20 adds whilst the original mob 1-shots half the group with an AE.

07-18-2006, 03:40 AM	#10
Belce Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 318	Positioning the mob in a way that is best for you and your group is important. You want to do it so that the fight location is as safe as possible. This means in a way that helps minimize damage to your party during the fight, reduces the chance for adds during the fight and also gives your group good coverage of possible wanderers getting close. Turning the mob is a normal best practice for exp groups and normal dungeon crawls. For epic encounters positioning is determined by the encounter. So its best practice to turn the mob, imo. But saying something is best practice does not mean its a commandment, like though shall keep agro. Always the situation you are pulling in and the target should play a role in how you position. And like any landing you can walk away from, any fight you can walk away from was a good fight. What is important is to keep your group on the same page as you regarding how you will pull, position. __________________