Role of other tanks in a group?

Drakeb · 06-07-2006, 05:21 PM

What is it?

I was in a group the other day and I wasn't main tank. As I have done for the past 68 levels and I likle people to do when I tank is to always target the Main Tank and hit what he is hitting unless a Main Assist is needed and spoken for before pulling. One it helps with agro control and two the faster the mob is killed the less damage it does to the group. So if we all hit the same mob we are not likely to take agro and the mob will die faster.

So I was with this group and the a mage and a scout were messing / rooting what the tank had targeted while the tank ran around. After the mob was rooted the tank switched targets. As I have learned the mob being messed / rooted is one that the tank is not targeting due to hitting the mob will most likely break the spell and you don't want to target anything else so you don't get agro from the main tank. Most of them get really [Removed for Content] if you take agro from them.

After a few mess / root were broken they blamed me for assisting the main tank and breaking the mess / root.

Now what is the rule of thumb here? Do you target the main tank? Do you just pick a mob and hit it? Which mob is supposed to be mess / root?

Junaru · 06-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Depends on the group makeup. In normal exp groups is really doesn't matter. Mobs die so fast that CC is not needed and a waste of power and time. If we are working on a quest and some named mobs or orange mobs are on the list I tend to ask for a MA (Prefer a Erudite).As a Monk if I'm MT I often ask for a MA since I need to cycle the mobs for aggro if there is anyone AOE in the group.As for your group. I've NEVER heard of a group rooting/messing off the MT. Thats just dumb. That means that the MT has to change targets and makes single target taunts useless. Besides the fact that one hit and mess it toast and 2 or 3 hits and say bye bye to root. Sounds to me like you just got a dumb group.

KeandraD · 06-07-2006, 06:30 PM

Junaru wrote:As for your group. I've NEVER heard of a group rooting/messing off the MT. Thats just dumb. That means that the MT has to change targets and makes single target taunts useless. Besides the fact that one hit and mess it toast and 2 or 3 hits and say bye bye to root. Sounds to me like you just got a dumb group.

To make it short, I agree totally.

Delil · 06-07-2006, 08:05 PM

This happended to me too with members of a level 40 raiding guild they pick me up cause we were doing the same quest and same thing happend.

They went as low as insulting me and using evac and kicking me off the group cause I was killing them, that I was to be laugh at and that I needed to lear my class or stop playing the game.

Message Edited by Delilie on 06-07-2006 09:07 AM

Tomanak · 06-07-2006, 09:08 PM

Role of other tanks in a group?

To hold my drink :smileytongue:

DynamicPerforman · 06-07-2006, 11:59 PM

Sadly, some players seem to need to make others feel better to make up for their own inadequicies.

As a monk, i face alot of predjudice about my class. I chose a monk to tank, not to DPS. Apparently, if a tank item drops i am not supposed to roll on it because "i am not a tank."

I don't mean to vent, I just want to say that any preconcieved notion of what a class can and cannot do should be thrown out the window, since a class's potential is largely based on the player's skill.

E.X. there was a guardian in my group a couple weeks ago that was hitting 1.3k dps on single mobs, and 1k on multiple mobs. As a tank speced monk i barely hit 500 dps. I did have 500 hp more than him, and about 10% more total damage reduction. Also, my taunts and defensive buffs are adept3+, whereas his were adept1, and his attacks mostly adept3+.

If you know your class and what its capable off, you should be noticing alot of people who don't SMILEY

And finally my advice:

Find better people to play with. Even if your messing up all the time, the right group should understand and help you. Remember, if your not having fun, your not playing a GAME.

BIG HAPPY FACE

Dynamicman out...

SageGaspar · 06-08-2006, 12:21 AM

I have to join these other guys in saying I've never been in a group where CC was important (aside from blackscale sep). It's saved my bacon a couple times in duos and trios, but rarely. Rule of thumb is if it's a ^^^ encounter you might as well just directly target it. On encounters with multiple mobs it's a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to keep assisting when it's so easy, so I just target through the tank.As to the role of other tanks in the group, I think with the new intercept changes I'll be intercepting more often, other than that can't think of anything.

Drakeb · 06-08-2006, 12:52 AM

So in case of pick up groups and such, targeting the tank will be the easiest way.

What about the mages and scouts messing / rooting mobs the tank is targeting? Shouldn't they focus on the other mobs on the encounter?

Wabit · 06-08-2006, 01:19 AM

CC hasn't been needed for anything really in a group setting... heroics don't hit hard enough to warrent it... other tanks job in a group is dps... no need to split tank anything... one tank, one healer, add in other ppl and your good to go for most everything...

even then most scouts can fill the roll of a tank in a group setting...

in a raid i'd have your [Removed for Content] if you were breaking any CC we had setup, but thats a different ballgame...

group setting might as well just assist the MT, unless someone specifily says is MA...

Hor · 06-08-2006, 07:52 PM

True, crowd control isn't as important in XP groups as it should be, but since that is where most people learn their roles... maybe more emphasis should be given to it.

Personally, I detest assisting thru targetting the MT/MA.... nothing but laziness. Make an assist button and learn to use it. As a melee growing up in the original EQ, I learned that every tank needed 3 macros..

1) An incoming message(to wake up the casters)

2) An assist key(for when you weren't the guy callin the shots)

3) An "assist me" key(for when the group needed to change targets)

In my opinion, the assist key needs to be brought back to life. It's very frustrating as a MT to switch to an off MoB thats taken a dislike to your healer or caster, and have everyone else start thumping on it too. All the extra damage just makes it that much more difficult for the tank to regain aggro(yes, I know that most die before they ever manage to hurt the healer/caster, but I'm talking about form and practice here ). Also, many tanks will switch targets just before a MoB dies(say when it's at 2-4%), to build a lil extra aggro on the next one before everyone else joins in. Of Course, if everyone is targetting thru the tank instead of assisting...well.. it's hard to kill something if noone is hitting it.

In short, make an assist button and use it. Don't switch targets until the MT/MA asks you to(exceptions are the mezzers/rooters.. trust them to know their job). Learn this way on the trash, and when you do have trouble, you'll know what to expect and what is expected of you.

Agian, I realize that a lot of this is seen as pointless with the speed in which most MoBs go down nowadays, but if you're gonna do a job do it the way it should be done.

Sorry for the long post, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Nothing like watchin the group wipe because everyone was on auto-pilot, then listening to them rip on the tank even tho he did everything he could to sort things out( seen this as MT and off-tank... never pretty).

laddich · 06-09-2006, 07:02 AM

On the quick buttons : I have one that says "Follow my behind ya scum" to make a group move where im moving. The group sometimes just dozes off and expects you to bring everything to them. I kinda like making them run around following me so I dont get the feeling im doing all the work :smileytongue:

Makkaio · 06-09-2006, 09:13 PM

Sounds like you got into a group full of lazy people who don't want to pay attention and target their own mobs. Your scenario sounds just plain silly. It also sounds like the group you were in was very lacking in communication. They should have informed you of their strategy.

The general role I usually play when I'm a secondary tank is to protect the healer and watch out for adds. Of course, I've been playing with the same group of people since the beginning of the game. So we've been running on the same system for a long time. However, when a person outside of our guild groups with us, we always go over strategy. That just makes sense to us.

Drakeb · 06-09-2006, 10:09 PM

All the members of the group where from the same guild and after about 10 to 15 minutes of play they tell me they aren't talking cause they are in Team Speak. But no one went over strategy being used or anything they just did their thing and hoped me to know how they do it or just to follow them around.

06-07-2006, 06:01 PM	#2
Junaru Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,471	Depends on the group makeup. In normal exp groups is really doesn't matter. Mobs die so fast that CC is not needed and a waste of power and time. If we are working on a quest and some named mobs or orange mobs are on the list I tend to ask for a MA (Prefer a Erudite).As a Monk if I'm MT I often ask for a MA since I need to cycle the mobs for aggro if there is anyone AOE in the group.As for your group. I've NEVER heard of a group rooting/messing off the MT. Thats just dumb. That means that the MT has to change targets and makes single target taunts useless. Besides the fact that one hit and mess it toast and 2 or 3 hits and say bye bye to root. Sounds to me like you just got a dumb group. __________________

06-07-2006, 08:05 PM	#4
Delil Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 34	This happended to me too with members of a level 40 raiding guild they pick me up cause we were doing the same quest and same thing happend. They went as low as insulting me and using evac and kicking me off the group cause I was killing them, that I was to be laugh at and that I needed to lear my class or stop playing the game. Message Edited by Delilie on 06-07-2006 09:07 AM __________________ Guy De Alsace wrote: This is Everquest after all not Evergrind. I dont want to farm instances for the best loot, I want to quest for it.

06-07-2006, 09:08 PM	#5
Tomanak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 595	Role of other tanks in a group? To hold my drink :smileytongue: __________________

06-07-2006, 11:59 PM	#6
DynamicPerforman General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 298	Sadly, some players seem to need to make others feel better to make up for their own inadequicies. As a monk, i face alot of predjudice about my class. I chose a monk to tank, not to DPS. Apparently, if a tank item drops i am not supposed to roll on it because "i am not a tank." I don't mean to vent, I just want to say that any preconcieved notion of what a class can and cannot do should be thrown out the window, since a class's potential is largely based on the player's skill. E.X. there was a guardian in my group a couple weeks ago that was hitting 1.3k dps on single mobs, and 1k on multiple mobs. As a tank speced monk i barely hit 500 dps. I did have 500 hp more than him, and about 10% more total damage reduction. Also, my taunts and defensive buffs are adept3+, whereas his were adept1, and his attacks mostly adept3+. If you know your class and what its capable off, you should be noticing alot of people who don't And finally my advice: Find better people to play with. Even if your messing up all the time, the right group should understand and help you. Remember, if your not having fun, your not playing a GAME. BIG HAPPY FACE Dynamicman out... __________________

06-08-2006, 01:19 AM	#9
Wabit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 802	CC hasn't been needed for anything really in a group setting... heroics don't hit hard enough to warrent it... other tanks job in a group is dps... no need to split tank anything... one tank, one healer, add in other ppl and your good to go for most everything... even then most scouts can fill the roll of a tank in a group setting... in a raid i'd have your [Removed for Content] if you were breaking any CC we had setup, but thats a different ballgame... group setting might as well just assist the MT, unless someone specifily says is MA... __________________ Wabit- 80 guardian Trixr- 70 carpenter - Oasis (part time Warden) Thoog- 80 monk - Oasis

06-07-2006, 05:21 PM	#1
Drakeb Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4	What is it? I was in a group the other day and I wasn't main tank. As I have done for the past 68 levels and I likle people to do when I tank is to always target the Main Tank and hit what he is hitting unless a Main Assist is needed and spoken for before pulling. One it helps with agro control and two the faster the mob is killed the less damage it does to the group. So if we all hit the same mob we are not likely to take agro and the mob will die faster. So I was with this group and the a mage and a scout were messing / rooting what the tank had targeted while the tank ran around. After the mob was rooted the tank switched targets. As I have learned the mob being messed / rooted is one that the tank is not targeting due to hitting the mob will most likely break the spell and you don't want to target anything else so you don't get agro from the main tank. Most of them get really [Removed for Content] if you take agro from them. After a few mess / root were broken they blamed me for assisting the main tank and breaking the mess / root. Now what is the rule of thumb here? Do you target the main tank? Do you just pick a mob and hit it? Which mob is supposed to be mess / root?

06-07-2006, 06:30 PM	#3
KeandraD Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 99	Junaru wrote:As for your group. I've NEVER heard of a group rooting/messing off the MT. Thats just dumb. That means that the MT has to change targets and makes single target taunts useless. Besides the fact that one hit and mess it toast and 2 or 3 hits and say bye bye to root. Sounds to me like you just got a dumb group. To make it short, I agree totally.

06-08-2006, 12:21 AM	#7
SageGaspar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 964	I have to join these other guys in saying I've never been in a group where CC was important (aside from blackscale sep). It's saved my bacon a couple times in duos and trios, but rarely. Rule of thumb is if it's a ^^^ encounter you might as well just directly target it. On encounters with multiple mobs it's a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to keep assisting when it's so easy, so I just target through the tank.As to the role of other tanks in the group, I think with the new intercept changes I'll be intercepting more often, other than that can't think of anything.

06-08-2006, 12:52 AM	#8
Drakeb Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4	So in case of pick up groups and such, targeting the tank will be the easiest way. What about the mages and scouts messing / rooting mobs the tank is targeting? Shouldn't they focus on the other mobs on the encounter?

06-08-2006, 07:52 PM	#10
Hor General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 44	True, crowd control isn't as important in XP groups as it should be, but since that is where most people learn their roles... maybe more emphasis should be given to it. Personally, I detest assisting thru targetting the MT/MA.... nothing but laziness. Make an assist button and learn to use it. As a melee growing up in the original EQ, I learned that every tank needed 3 macros.. 1) An incoming message(to wake up the casters) 2) An assist key(for when you weren't the guy callin the shots) 3) An "assist me" key(for when the group needed to change targets) In my opinion, the assist key needs to be brought back to life. It's very frustrating as a MT to switch to an off MoB thats taken a dislike to your healer or caster, and have everyone else start thumping on it too. All the extra damage just makes it that much more difficult for the tank to regain aggro(yes, I know that most die before they ever manage to hurt the healer/caster, but I'm talking about form and practice here ). Also, many tanks will switch targets just before a MoB dies(say when it's at 2-4%), to build a lil extra aggro on the next one before everyone else joins in. Of Course, if everyone is targetting thru the tank instead of assisting...well.. it's hard to kill something if noone is hitting it. In short, make an assist button and use it. Don't switch targets until the MT/MA asks you to(exceptions are the mezzers/rooters.. trust them to know their job). Learn this way on the trash, and when you do have trouble, you'll know what to expect and what is expected of you. Agian, I realize that a lot of this is seen as pointless with the speed in which most MoBs go down nowadays, but if you're gonna do a job do it the way it should be done. Sorry for the long post, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Nothing like watchin the group wipe because everyone was on auto-pilot, then listening to them rip on the tank even tho he did everything he could to sort things out( seen this as MT and off-tank... never pretty). __________________ ....For Within the Circle of His Sword, There Is Each Man a King...

06-09-2006, 07:02 AM	#11
laddich Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 71	On the quick buttons : I have one that says "Follow my behind ya scum" to make a group move where im moving. The group sometimes just dozes off and expects you to bring everything to them. I kinda like making them run around following me so I dont get the feeling im doing all the work :smileytongue:

06-09-2006, 09:13 PM	#12
Makkaio Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 71	Sounds like you got into a group full of lazy people who don't want to pay attention and target their own mobs. Your scenario sounds just plain silly. It also sounds like the group you were in was very lacking in communication. They should have informed you of their strategy. The general role I usually play when I'm a secondary tank is to protect the healer and watch out for adds. Of course, I've been playing with the same group of people since the beginning of the game. So we've been running on the same system for a long time. However, when a person outside of our guild groups with us, we always go over strategy. That just makes sense to us. __________________

06-09-2006, 10:09 PM	#13
Drakeb Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4	All the members of the group where from the same guild and after about 10 to 15 minutes of play they tell me they aren't talking cause they are in Team Speak. But no one went over strategy being used or anything they just did their thing and hoped me to know how they do it or just to follow them around.