It's kinda quiet in here... - Page 2

SniperKitty · 12-27-2005, 07:36 PM

aislynn00 wrote:
Our hate generation is still crap. Fighting in offensive stance most of the time with all taunts at Adept III or Master I, I am able to hold aggro reasonably, but it should neither take offensive stance nor such high quality combat arts to do my job.
If that's what it takes, that's what it takes. Not one of my three tanks ever uses defensive stance. If you're grouping with scouts and mages with adept3's and up, you're going to need your taunts upgraded just as much. Even then, the scouts and mages also need to learn to control their aggro too. Controlling aggro is not just the tanks job, but the job of everyone in the group.That's where all the whining crybaby guardians are wrong. They think they should have 100% perfect aggro control all the time no matter the situation. Which makes for boring and easy combat. I'm sick of boring. I'm sick of easy. I want a challenge. My lvl 53 warden got access to Silent City last night. I was tanking lvl 54^^^ with roots, snare, and heals from just the templar with no danger of dying. She's only in T5 rare armor with a couple T5 fabled drops (talisman and ring). The warlock and ranger burned down the mob. The game is getting too easy again.White and yellow con heroic mobs should be the target for the average xp group. And they should provide a reasonable amount of challenge for an average equipped group. A lvl 54^^^ shouldn't be able to be tanked by a lvl 53 priest in T5 rare leather armor with a templar healing.If you're losing aggro every single fight. Your group is doing something wrong. It's that simple.

mastersard · 12-27-2005, 08:21 PM

If the game is too easy, i have 2 options for you.

1) Play another game.

2) Look for ways to make it more challenging.

Posting here how well you do and flaming anyone who disagree's with you is childish and a deterrant to any worthwhile discussion. As Guardians post LU13, we need all the intellegent posts we gan get on this board. We cant really play the class we chose as it was sold to us by SOE. If your warden is working so well, then go play it. We dont have the option sit and be quiet, and to trust SOE will fix us.

Johnd · 12-27-2005, 08:22 PM

I might be understanding you wrong, please tell me if I do, but ...

What you are saying is that no profession can shoot at will, cause then you get agro. The tank can't agro up against that so all should step back in the damage they do.

Basicly you give a character awesome power, wich he / she can't use. That sounds wrong to me.

Tanking doesn't have to be boring even if you keep agro well. Lets just say you have a spell running that keeps your target glued to you like a bee on honey, but the rest of the monsters group won't be agro'ed like that. It means your team have to attack with sense, but they can go all out.

Its not about being to easy, a leather tank staying alive.. thats wrong in my opinion. But any profession other then a warrior tanking is wrong imo. And in the warrior class the tanks should work in various ways.

Bezerker : Good tank, but only short duration. Much damage, means less defense. So the hits will be harder from your enemie.

Brawler : Based on evasion. So you won't be hit much, but if you get hit.. you have pain. Come on, you are wearing leather. Thats not ment to be hit on

Guardian : You wear armor.. and lots of it. You spend your life shouting at others to [Removed for Content] them off. You didn't have time to train your weapon skills. Less damage, more plate.

There are a few more professions, but I don't know anything about those..

Most people on this forum don't want to be uber. If you become a guardian you become it because you like to eat dust, dirt, mud and love the taste of blood.. your own..

Allowin · 12-27-2005, 08:36 PM

SniperKitty wrote:

I was tanking lvl 54^^^

The game is getting too easy again.

A lvl 54^^^ shouldn't be able to be tanked by a lvl 53 priest in T5 rare leather armor

why dont you go post in YOUR forums about YOUR class.

im so sick and tired of $&^#% coming in here and telling me how to play my class. telling me what im doing wrong and telling me its my fault. blah blah blah.

shut your pie hole and go post in your own forums. if your tanking yellow ^^^ mobs why dont you /petition it and tell sony that your class is way overpowered? i bet you wont do that will you? you are overpowered as furys are also. but i dont see you getting up in arms about that. i dont see you raising %&## in your forums saying you need to be nerfed.

so if you want to do something, go to your forums and tell your own class that your overpowered and need to be nerfed. but dont come here and talk trash to me, and my class, and tell me what im doing wrong and that we are just cry babies. you dont play my toon, and you never will. you think all guardians are just cry babies, that we just all met up in some hidden room and had a huge game wide guardian meeting and decided that since we are a fine class, and we are a equal tank and equal dps and have equal utility that we would all come here and let sony know that we think were [Removed for Content] and need a fixing. and to back that point up, 1/2 of us would cancel our accounts and 1/4 of us would re-roll another class and a very small majority would keep playing?

if so, your as close minded as you and gaige claim we are.

Allowin · 12-27-2005, 08:43 PM

Gaige wrote:

I suppose they could change it, and if they do so, fine. Until then though I'll want to be balanced as a tank, if they change it then I'll ask to be balanced as melee dps.

Doesn't really matter.

so your saying if they changed you, (like they did us) you would be asked to be balanced huh? and your saying that you would ask to be equal dps huh?

so your saying you would do exactly what we are doing, but you come here and run your mouth and troll our forums and tell us we are fine and the game is what sony wanted it to be?

we tanked better than any class. you guys cried and whined about it saying you want to be equal. so they changed it where you are equal. nobody said anything to you for the first year you were crying to sony about wanting to be equal. but you want to come here and talk trash and troll our forums for doing the same thing you did for a year?

you said it yourself. now let me see you spin and try and back away from this.

you said if they changed it, you would asked to be equal as a melee dps.

is that not what we are asking? that if your going to make all fighters tank equal, give us equal dps?

you said it, not me

SniperKitty · 12-27-2005, 09:28 PM

Allowin wrote:
... nobody said anything to you for the first year you were crying to sony about wanting to be equal...
Bull frakking crap. Brawlers and monks specifically had lamearse guardians spewing forth idiocy and stupidity from the very beginning. The oft used phrase was, "Want to tank? Roll a guardian." So take your crap and shove it ya noob. And just so you're absolutely clear...Fighters tank. Brawlers are fighters. Monks are brawlers. Guess that makes them a fighter too, which means they tank. Their DPS does NOT match anything but a lazy ranger/assassin/brigand/warlock/wizard/etc.

mastersard · 12-27-2005, 11:09 PM

Not for long, sweetheart.

The archtype system is going away.

SOE will have free reign to force any class into any role.

A monk may end up a healing class, or DPS. Templars may be tanks. Wardens may be the new Guardian. I've said it before, i'll say it again: This is SOE's way of righting the wrong of trying to balance Avoidance tanks vs. Mitigation tanks. They will never admit they were wrong to try this crap.

I promise you, it will get to the point where every time you log in you will cross your fingers and pray that you still have the same class you logged out with. They did it with SWG, they'll do it here.

SniperKitty · 12-27-2005, 11:19 PM

They're not going to change the core role of the final sub-class choice. Any class that started as a fighter pre-revamp will still be a fighter post-revamp. They're not going to make monks and bruisers into melee dps. There's already enough dps classes out there. We don't need any more. What we need is for lame tanks that suck (like all the whiny guardians on this forum) to stop playing tanks and for all the morons that chose monk or bruiser for dps, to go play swashies and brigands. Monks and bruisers are brawlers are fighters. Fighters are tanks. Fighters will always be tanks. Learn2play. =p

Kain Hammersmith · 12-27-2005, 11:21 PM

Yes a Monk's DPS can meet a lazy ranger/brigand/blah/blah/blah, but what does our DPS meet? A monk on Auto attack. Seem fair? Let me put it this way. If right now SOE came in and changed the classes again and Monks were made to be healers you would want to be equal healers and have equal DPS right? So you understand what we are saying.

BTW, Sniper I have read many of your posts and I think you need to take a break from the forums. Your posts are full of name calling and flaming. I can only guess that you are in your early teens and have nothing better to do. I am sorry if you dont have any RL friends to talk to. But please dont come here and show us how immature you are.

Thanks

SniperKitty · 12-27-2005, 11:47 PM

Kain Hammersmith wrote:
Yes a Monk's DPS can meet a lazy ranger/brigand/blah/blah/blah, but what does our DPS meet? A monk on Auto attack. Seem fair? Let me put it this way. If right now SOE came in and changed the classes again and Monks were made to be healers you would want to be equal healers and have equal DPS right? So you understand what we are saying.
I don't care what my DPS or HPS is as long as I have fun and have the ability to keep the group alive by whatever means my class has available to them. Whether it's through defensive buffs and decent taunts, or mediocre dps and avoidance, or good buffs and decent heals. As long as I'm having fun... numbers don't mean squat.It's funny how there's so few guardians actually whining about their class. Especially since they're often the majority of the tanks played. Seems the greatest majority of guardians are enjoying their class and playing the game instead of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and moaning about their class on the forums. I see guardians tank just fine each and every day I play the game. As a healer, I don't care what kind of tank I have in a group. As long as their gear is decent and they know how to play their class, the group will be pretty successful.
BTW, Sniper I have read many of your posts and I think you need to take a break from the forums. Your posts are full of name calling and flaming. I can only guess that you are in your early teens and have nothing better to do. I am sorry if you dont have any RL friends to talk to. But please dont come here and show us how immature you are.
Thanks
Oh noes. I called someone an idiot who is deserving of that title. Big deal. Maybe they'll wonder why I called them an idiot and look to themselves for the answer. If they can't find it, I'll tell them here and now. They're idiots because they whine about a perfectly viable class that the majority of the pleople playing that class seem to enjoy. I'm just sick of seeing all the morons whining about the same things over and over like a damned broken record. The class is what it is and there's nothing wrong with it. The number are on my side. I mean seriously. Look at the numbers.Count the number of unique individuals whining on these forums about their class and then compare it to the number of guardians in game. Seems to me the vast majority enjoy the class and are capable of playing the class with a modicum of skill. The idiots here just suck and need to reroll or play a different game since they can't handle playing a guardian. Maybe they should play a scout that groups and groups only since mashing buttons without regard to aggro control is the only thing they know.

Gaige · 12-27-2005, 11:49 PM

Johndoo wrote:

That way we will loose our power burning on taunts, mobs will stick to us like glue and any other profession can go full out on dps, cause we own agro. I only see this benefit all classes and not only the guardians. Wow sounds fun... whoops no it doesn't. Sounds like the bore fest that was combat preLU13.

It would make our role defining, we would have our special own thing. It would make your role very defining, you'd become the only tank... again.

Gaige · 12-27-2005, 11:53 PM

Allowin wrote:

nobody said anything to you for the first year you were crying to sony about wanting to be equal. but you want to come here and talk trash and troll our forums for doing the same thing you did for a year? Sure they did. Captain Tuna led the charge, but a lot of other guardians who, most of which are no longer here, flamed me for pages and pages of multiple threads for wanting brawlers to be realistic tank options.

you said if they changed it, you would asked to be equal as a melee dps. Where? Read your own quote... I said balanced as melee dps. I never said equal anything.

SkarlSpeedbu · 12-28-2005, 12:02 AM

Sweet thread. I give it an A for originality. Lets see, guardians suck, its all gaiges fault, and we wanna be the only tank.

I'm proud to be a guardian boy ol boy.

SniperKitty · 12-28-2005, 12:06 AM

Nah, guardians don't suck. They're actually pretty good tanks. The ones that suck are the dumbasses whining on the guardian forums. All full of woe is me bullcrap. I read through the "suggestions" thread stickied above. OMG what a load of crap. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near every post in there is gimmie this and gimmie that. Make me uber again. They're all horrible suggestions with no regard to actually making the game fun and challenging. People whining about losing aggro... oh well. That's part of the challenge. No challenge makes a game boring. People don't want to play a boring game. So up the challenge more. Increase damage from white/yellow con heroics. Make it a thrill to play again. I'm sick of ezmode and want to have fun playing the game. Not be bored to tears mashing buttons which is what would happen if even half the suggestions from the whiny crybabies got implemented.

mastersard · 12-28-2005, 01:24 AM

You want a challenge? Here's 2:

1) Roll a Guardian and tank your way to 60.

2) Make an intellegent post that doesn't insult anyone and doesn't make you look like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

Until you have done at least 1 of these, you really have no business here.

SniperKitty · 12-28-2005, 01:26 AM

I was going to make a guardian. Got to lvl 19 and had to make a choice. Finally decided I didn't want to be associated with such a bunch of lamearse whiners and crybabies, I chose berserker instead. So glad I did. Guardians haven't changed at all since the day they lost their coveted position of best tank overall. Now all fighters tank pretty much equally well and that's great. Yet you guardians here can't stop whining and crying about it. Y'all make me sick. If it wasn't for friends that played guardians, I'd be just as happy to never group with a guardian again.

Allowin · 12-28-2005, 01:27 AM

Gaige wrote:

then you can bet I will post my opinion and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class.

umm come on man. make your mind up. thats your exact quote.

thats exactly what im doing here. sony wants us balanced, we are balanced...TANKS. guardians dont have 1/10th the dps of a bruiser or monk. and dont have 1/2 the utility (usefull utility) as a pally or SK.

so im posting my opinions and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class.

whats good for the goose is good for the blah blah blah

now tell me you honestly think that guardians are equal to a monk or bruiser in dps. or equal to a SK or pally in utility?

and for whats-your-name. go troll somewhere else. you are ignorant to guardians as you have stated many times that you dont play a guardian. why people feel the need to come here (this is the guardian forums last i checked) to call names, flame and whine and cry saying that we are whining and crying is beyond me.

Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-2005 12:32 PM

Johnd · 12-28-2005, 01:33 AM

Not be bored to tears mashing buttons which is what would happen if even half the suggestions from the whiny crybabies got implemented.

And only using your taunts to keep agro from the monsters on you instead of the squishies is fun ?

Allowin · 12-28-2005, 01:33 AM

SniperKitty wrote:

I was going to make a guardian. Got to lvl 19 and had to make a choice. Finally decided I didn't want to be associated with such a bunch of lamearse whiners and crybabies

i for one am glad you chose not to taint our class with your negative banter and nonstop flames and crying

SMILEY

Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-200512:35 PM

Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-2005 12:35 PM

Gaige · 12-28-2005, 01:35 AM

Allowin wrote:

umm come on man. make your mind up. thats your exact quote. Yup, and notices how it says "balanced as melee DPS". Not equal DPS to every other melee DPS class.

thats exactly what im doing here. sony wants us balanced, we are balanced...TANKS. guardians dont have 1/10th the dps of a bruiser or monk. and dont have 1/2 the utility (usefull utility) as a pally or SK. Wow go figure. Other non-guardians and I tried to convince guardians that after LU13 they needed increased DPS/utility. They wanted nothing of it. They wanted defense/tanking increases, they said "who cares about DPS and utility, I'm a guardian". You only have yourselves to thank for your current situation.

so im posting my opinions and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class. Now you want to be a melee DPS class?

whats good for the goose is good for the blah blah blah It wasn't, according to guardians, prior to LU13. What was good for guardians... was good for guardians - ie being the best tank - and if you didn't like it, they informed you to "roll a guardian".

now tell me you honestly think that guardians are equal to a monk or bruiser in dps. or equal to a SK or pally in utility? Nope. I've never said that either. Guardians are better tanks than all of those though.

Message Edited by Gaige on 12-27-2005 12:36 PM

SniperKitty · 12-28-2005, 01:48 AM

"And only using your taunts to keep agro from the monsters on you instead of the squishies is fun ?" Actually what I find fun about playing a tank is controlling the pacing of combat. Controlling how fast the group moves through different areas of a dungeon. Being able to keep my group alive. Sometimes that means letting the scout tank a single, no arrow mob while the rest of the group finishes off the triple-arrow friend he brought. The tank does not have to control the aggro on every single mob during an encounter. Many scout classes and even some priest classes are quite capable of handling an add on their own while the rest of the group is occupied. On my warden, if I can survive against a mob for more than 3s and it's not an epic, I can root it and move away, leaving it there for the tank to trouble with later. I have a group root spell for encounters. Many mages have roots and charms or stuns or even mezzes. They're all some form of crowd control. Something that's useful when the tank can't be bothered to snag aggro from an add. Tanks whine about power consumption quite a bit it seems. To me, those tanks aren't playing their class properly. Use only the absolute bare minimum of attacks (preferably ones with stuns or stifles or interrupts or other similar effects like defense reduction) and your taunts. Keep an eye out for wanderers or respawns. Watch the aggro if a mob peels off onto the rogue. Be ready to take that aggro back if need be, but don't worry if the scout isn't going to die. As a healer, I love tanks that know how to manage groups like that. I love groups that know how to work well together and understand that aggro is fluid and not always guarenteed. That sometimes it's beneficial for someone else other than the tank to hold the attention of a mob or two. As a warden, my group heals kick butt. I can very easily keep the group alive, even if everyone is getting smacked around by various mobs. That's when I have the most fun is when the crap hits the fan and everyone is doing their best to bring things back under control. Whether I'm the tank or the healer... frenetic healing and taunting and stunning and killing is the best thing in the game. The more mayhem the better. Watching a tank pull, taunt, keep aggro and mashing my heal button is boring. 100% perfect aggro control makes the game too easy. People whined cause the game was too easy. Now the tanks are whining cause they don't have 100% perfect aggro control. Wah. Deal with it. Most people have learned to.

Allowin · 12-28-2005, 01:58 AM

Gaige wrote:

Allowin wrote:

umm come on man. make your mind up. thats your exact quote. Yup, and notices how it says "balanced as melee DPS". Not equal DPS to every other melee DPS class.

and how are we balanced? tell me a guard is balanced with a monk in dps? or a bruiser? im talking about fighters. we arent talking scouts. i mean F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S. get that?

thats exactly what im doing here. sony wants us balanced, we are balanced...TANKS. guardians dont have 1/10th the dps of a bruiser or monk. and dont have 1/2 the utility (usefull utility) as a pally or SK. Wow go figure. Other non-guardians and I tried to convince guardians that after LU13 they needed increased DPS/utility. They wanted nothing of it. They wanted defense/tanking increases, they said "who cares about DPS and utility, I'm a guardian". You only have yourselves to thank for your current situation. whos they? im not here posting for "them" or "they" im posting MY opinions. im a guardian. if sony wanted fighters to be equal, lets be equal. all around. deciding to make guardians low end everything but tanking was not my idea, it was sony. im sure not going to "thank myself" for that. MG has already stated that guards will never be "uber tanks" again. im fine with that, lets all tank the same. i dont care. but lets all be equal in everything, not just tanking. my whole thing is that unless i want to be in a uber raid guild and MT raid mobs, im bottom tier fighter. guards tank the same as any other fighter in groups. so why have a class that adds almost no dps. a few worthless group buffs and one you have to wait on between every fight to regen mana? and what if i DO want to be in a uber raid guild. theres only 1 MT in a raid. and 23 other classes. so what am i supposed to do? hope the MT calls in sick or forgets to show up? so i can actually play my toon? and not have to sit out because i dont iffer anything to a raid unless i am MT?

so im posting my opinions and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class. Now you want to be a melee DPS class? here you go with your spins again. yes. i want to be equal DPS with the rest of the fighters!!! again F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S!!!! is that too much to ask for? we are all equal tanks. so yippie for that. im cool with it. we all tank alike. now give me some decent DPS so i can have something to do if im not tanking. is that clear? or can you find another spin on that quote?

whats good for the goose is good for the blah blah blah It wasn't, according to guardians, prior to LU13. What was good for guardians... was good for guardians - ie being the best tank - and if you didn't like it, they informed you to "roll a guardian". well you know what. this aint pre LU13. this is post LU13. get that straight. pre LU13 we were fine with no dps or utility cause we were the "uber tanks" but now were not. as i stated, im fine with that. sony will not ever go back to guardians being the only choice for tanks. so lets move past that. lets move to post LU13. we are all equal tanks. so what exactly is my roll if im not MT? equip my DW pom poms and cheer for the raid to "knock em back, push em back, knock em wayyy back?" EVERY other fighter has a ability if they are not MT. bruiser and monks can DPS. pally and SK can do some dps and add utility, (heals, wards, evac ect ect) so what is my role if im not MT? sit in a group and pray the MT looses aggro and my group members catch a AE so i can pop my guard sphere or use one of my "l33t" protection skills and double the damage we take?

now tell me you honestly think that guardians are equal to a monk or bruiser in dps. or equal to a SK or pally in utility? Nope. I've never said that either. Guardians are better tanks than all of those though. ok, answer the question. tell me you believe WE are balanced!!. you claim we are still uber tanks. well were not. are we good tanks? sure. i dont complain about not being able to tank. i can. but so can you. and so can johnny bruiser. or paul pally, or jimmy SK. so answer the question. do you think we are balanced? its a simple yes or no question. do you think guardians are balanced with other fighters? if you think so, THEN give me a example. if you dont think so, give me some of your ideas on what you think needs to be done to cure that.

Message Edited by Gaige on 12-27-2005 12:36 PM

Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-2005 01:04 PM

Pry · 12-28-2005, 02:03 AM

SniperKitty wrote:

Kain Hammersmith wrote:

Yes a Monk's DPS can meet a lazy ranger/brigand/blah/blah/blah, but what does our DPS meet? A monk on Auto attack. Seem fair? Let me put it this way. If right now SOE came in and changed the classes again and Monks were made to be healers you would want to be equal healers and have equal DPS right? So you understand what we are saying.

I don't care what my DPS or HPS is as long as I have fun and have the ability to keep the group alive by whatever means my class has available to them. Whether it's through defensive buffs and decent taunts, or mediocre dps and avoidance, or good buffs and decent heals. As long as I'm having fun... numbers don't mean squat.

It's funny how there's so few guardians actually whining about their class. Especially since they're often the majority of the tanks played. Seems the greatest majority of guardians are enjoying their class and playing the game instead of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and moaning about their class on the forums. I see guardians tank just fine each and every day I play the game. As a healer, I don't care what kind of tank I have in a group. As long as their gear is decent and they know how to play their class, the group will be pretty successful.

BTW, Sniper I have read many of your posts and I think you need to take a break from the forums. Your posts are full of name calling and flaming. I can only guess that you are in your early teens and have nothing better to do. I am sorry if you dont have any RL friends to talk to. But please dont come here and show us how immature you are.

Thanks

Oh noes. I called someone an idiot who is deserving of that title. Big deal. Maybe they'll wonder why I called them an idiot and look to themselves for the answer. If they can't find it, I'll tell them here and now. They're idiots because they whine about a perfectly viable class that the majority of the pleople playing that class seem to enjoy. I'm just sick of seeing all the morons whining about the same things over and over like a damned broken record. The class is what it is and there's nothing wrong with it. The number are on my side. I mean seriously. Look at the numbers.

Count the number of unique individuals whining on these forums about their class and then compare it to the number of guardians in game. Seems to me the vast majority enjoy the class and are capable of playing the class with a modicum of skill. The idiots here just suck and need to reroll or play a different game since they can't handle playing a guardian. Maybe they should play a scout that groups and groups only since mashing buttons without regard to aggro control is the only thing they know.

In fantasy land, there are thousands of Guardians happily playing their class and they don't post here because they are happy with their class so they don't have to!

*thwap*

You're talking about numbers, and the reality is that server populations are lower than they have ever been (thanks to LU13, and Station-Excange), that WoW numbers have exceeded 4 million subscriptions, that people are again playing other games like DAOC again and even going back to EQ1. When the subscription base for EQ1 is greater than that of EQ2 like it is now, then it would be indicative of a problem, wouldn't you agree?

Now, is the reality that all of these people cancelling their subscriptions and playing other games because EQ2 is finally *balanced*? Or perhaps more apropos is that the game is filled with whiners (as you say) who want to intrude on poor little sniperkitty's fun. Or worse that we all never knew what we were doing so we just quit.

Please.

Everquest has competition out there and more to come. If you think that the subscription base of EQ2 is going to increase because they *balanced* fighter classes thus making the game more fun, you are high on something other than life. EQ2 is lame because when it was king daddy of MMORPG's, someone made a bad decision thinking that EQ2 would rest on its laurels. And you know as well as I do that this in the real world doesn't work.

So all I can say is enjoy having fouled up economies, bugs galore, where the highest population server is the RP server for God's sake, and when SOE decides that it's not economically viable anymore, and then we'll see what they do next. My suggestion would be to change the game back to what it was, but the ego won't let it. Then and only then will I sign into my account and play once more. Until then, WoW Paladin > EQ2 Guardian.

The numbers are what they are, they are on nobody's side.

Gaige · 12-28-2005, 02:06 AM

Wow you brought up Station Exchange as a reason players are leaving the game?

Wasuna · 12-28-2005, 02:17 AM

SniperKitty wrote:
"And only using your taunts to keep agro .... they don't have 100% perfect aggro control. Wah. Deal with it. Most people have learned to.

Your post is full of I and me. To bad nobody cares what you think is good or bad with Guardians. Atleast Gaige has some entertaining arguments until most here figured out the pig in the mud hole thing.

Kain Hammersmith · 12-28-2005, 03:25 AM

Funny thing is that these two, you know who you are, say that only a few Guards are complaining about our class and most are happy. Ok lets look at that.

Including me there are 2 Guards in my Guild that are mains and one that is an alt. MY guild is over 100 members.

My server used to have lots of Guardians running around but now when you do a search it comes back as the lowest played class next to chanters and bards.

Where are all the happy Guards on these forums? Dont tell me that they are playing the game so they dont post. You guys are happy with your class so why do you post?

The most vocal Guards have quit the game, so the remaining few seem to be the minority. I understand that, it may seem that way. But if you could actually find these numbers that you keep talking about I would love to see them. As of now I think that only SOE employees can access that info and they dont seem to share it with us.

Any other facts according to "you" that you would like to bring.

This is a forum and I hate to see name calling and such. I also hate to see people arguing about something that neither affects them or involves them. These forums would be better if only people that play a class could post in that class's forums. Wishful thinking.

In closing remember this. In RL if you would not say it to someone's face than you probably shouldnt say it at all. Think about it next time you post.

Pry · 12-28-2005, 03:49 AM

Here's my numbers from 6 months ago. You mean EQ1 subscriptions > EQ2 subscriptions even though the graphics in EQ2 are far, far superior than any other game? Nah, couldn't be Station Exchange. Nah, it couldn't be the craptacular combat system. Oh my, you mean that enormous chunk that says Lineage, Lineage II (filled with plat farmers) and World of Warcraft are filled whining idiots as subscribers?!

I wonder how miniscule the chart would look like now in December. Would Toontown Online surpass EQ2 subscriptions by now? It's all the whining idiots I tell you, who don't know how to play!

Runescape > EQ2! I am.....not surprised really.

I think we know who the real idiot is here. The prosecution rests, your honor.

SniperKitty · 12-28-2005, 03:58 AM

Kain Hammersmith wrote:
Funny thing is that these two, you know who you are, say that only a few Guards are complaining about our class and most are happy. Ok lets look at that. Including me there are 2 Guards in my Guild that are mains and one that is an alt. MY guild is over 100 members. My server used to have lots of Guardians running around but now when you do a search it comes back as the lowest played class next to chanters and bards.
That's funny. I still see plenty of guardians running around on my server. Guess your server is full of quitters that couldn't handle being forced to do more than mash buttons without thinking about what they were mashing.
Where are all the happy Guards on these forums? Dont tell me that they are playing the game so they dont post. You guys are happy with your class so why do you post?
I post while at work since my job allows me plenty of free time. I don't post so much when at home.
The most vocal Guards have quit the game, so the remaining few seem to be the minority. I understand that, it may seem that way. But if you could actually find these numbers that you keep talking about I would love to see them. As of now I think that only SOE employees can access that info and they dont seem to share it with us. Any other facts according to "you" that you would like to bring. This is a forum and I hate to see name calling and such. I also hate to see people arguing about something that neither affects them or involves them. These forums would be better if only people that play a class could post in that class's forums. Wishful thinking. In closing remember this. In RL if you would not say it to someone's face than you probably shouldnt say it at all. Think about it next time you post.
This isn't real life however. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. Not boring. What guardians want would make the game BORING again. Just like pre-LU13. I don't want that again so I'm going to do whatever it takes to get these whiny guardians threads locked down and ignored. They serve no purpose other than to try and railroad the devs into making the guardians the goober-uber tank again and make the other five tanks useless for anything but easy, boring content. Since their dps is so uber... whatever. I said it before, there's no reason at all to invite a tank to a group to do anything beyond tanking. DPS, get a scout or mage. Healing? Get a priest. Tanking... well that leaves a fighter. Best groups are tank, healer, dps x 4. They go quick, fast and furious with very little downtime. If the tank knows how to hold themselves back from mashing combat arts and wasting power.
I also hate to see people arguing about something that neither affects them or involves them.
But it does affect us. If you guardians get your way, you'd be the only tank worth playing in the game, making them the defacto tank that people look for. Which that does effect how people perceive the other tanks like monks and paladins. That is the biggest reason I hate these forums and think they shouldn't exist. It doesn't matter how [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing game is. There's always some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] whining about this or that without any clue about how their suggestions would affect the overall game.I''m a gamer. I've played various games for fifteen plus years. I'm also a game designer. Only been doing that for a year and a half now, but I've learned a lot and done some research on making games fun and enjoyable. Guess what... boring grind != enjoyable. Godmode != long term fun. There's a happy medium between tedious, boring work and ezmode. Guardians want ezmode. Guess what... that will ruin the game faster than making the game more like EQ1.So do you see now why it does involve or affect me? Or are you too dense and wrapped up in your tank ego to understand? By the way, the reason I'm so crass here is to get these threads locked and ignored. They're useless and pointless threads because the devs are likely never going to listen to you because what the vocal minority of the guardians want is detrimental to the long term health of the game. They've probably made their decisions about the classes and will do what needs to be done instead of what the crybabies think and want.

Allowin · 12-28-2005, 04:15 AM

i would like to be the first to say im sorry.

sorry gaige, i thought you were the most ignorant flamer on these boards. but i was wrong. your a einstein and pacifist compared to Sniper.

i have never seen one person so ignorant to something, so ready to flame and call names and talk trash about something that has nothing to do with them. something that does not effect them and they have no right adding their moronic 2 cents about.

and BTW. i think i win the award for shutting gaige up. i see its been several hours and no reply to my last post. is this a mythical discovery on the forums?

Wasuna · 12-28-2005, 04:19 AM

Sniperkitty... your just ignorant and offensive. Don't think your dribble here is going to make people change their minds. It's not. Better people that you have come here and tried. I ask you to present facts and numbers. If you can't then eventually you'll get tired of people telling you what you are and leave.

12-27-2005, 07:36 PM	#31
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	aislynn00 wrote: Our hate generation is still crap. Fighting in offensive stance most of the time with all taunts at Adept III or Master I, I am able to hold aggro reasonably, but it should neither take offensive stance nor such high quality combat arts to do my job. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes. Not one of my three tanks ever uses defensive stance. If you're grouping with scouts and mages with adept3's and up, you're going to need your taunts upgraded just as much. Even then, the scouts and mages also need to learn to control their aggro too. Controlling aggro is not just the tanks job, but the job of everyone in the group.That's where all the whining crybaby guardians are wrong. They think they should have 100% perfect aggro control all the time no matter the situation. Which makes for boring and easy combat. I'm sick of boring. I'm sick of easy. I want a challenge. My lvl 53 warden got access to Silent City last night. I was tanking lvl 54^^^ with roots, snare, and heals from just the templar with no danger of dying. She's only in T5 rare armor with a couple T5 fabled drops (talisman and ring). The warlock and ranger burned down the mob. The game is getting too easy again.White and yellow con heroic mobs should be the target for the average xp group. And they should provide a reasonable amount of challenge for an average equipped group. A lvl 54^^^ shouldn't be able to be tanked by a lvl 53 priest in T5 rare leather armor with a templar healing.If you're losing aggro every single fight. Your group is doing something wrong. It's that simple. __________________ ... in bed.

12-27-2005, 08:36 PM	#34
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	SniperKitty wrote: I was tanking lvl 54^^^ The game is getting too easy again. A lvl 54^^^ shouldn't be able to be tanked by a lvl 53 priest in T5 rare leather armor why dont you go post in YOUR forums about YOUR class. im so sick and tired of $&^#% coming in here and telling me how to play my class. telling me what im doing wrong and telling me its my fault. blah blah blah. shut your pie hole and go post in your own forums. if your tanking yellow ^^^ mobs why dont you /petition it and tell sony that your class is way overpowered? i bet you wont do that will you? you are overpowered as furys are also. but i dont see you getting up in arms about that. i dont see you raising %&## in your forums saying you need to be nerfed. so if you want to do something, go to your forums and tell your own class that your overpowered and need to be nerfed. but dont come here and talk trash to me, and my class, and tell me what im doing wrong and that we are just cry babies. you dont play my toon, and you never will. you think all guardians are just cry babies, that we just all met up in some hidden room and had a huge game wide guardian meeting and decided that since we are a fine class, and we are a equal tank and equal dps and have equal utility that we would all come here and let sony know that we think were [Removed for Content] and need a fixing. and to back that point up, 1/2 of us would cancel our accounts and 1/4 of us would re-roll another class and a very small majority would keep playing? if so, your as close minded as you and gaige claim we are.

12-27-2005, 08:43 PM	#35
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Gaige wrote: I suppose they could change it, and if they do so, fine. Until then though I'll want to be balanced as a tank, if they change it then I'll ask to be balanced as melee dps. Doesn't really matter. so your saying if they changed you, (like they did us) you would be asked to be balanced huh? and your saying that you would ask to be equal dps huh? so your saying you would do exactly what we are doing, but you come here and run your mouth and troll our forums and tell us we are fine and the game is what sony wanted it to be? we tanked better than any class. you guys cried and whined about it saying you want to be equal. so they changed it where you are equal. nobody said anything to you for the first year you were crying to sony about wanting to be equal. but you want to come here and talk trash and troll our forums for doing the same thing you did for a year? you said it yourself. now let me see you spin and try and back away from this. you said if they changed it, you would asked to be equal as a melee dps. is that not what we are asking? that if your going to make all fighters tank equal, give us equal dps? you said it, not me

12-27-2005, 09:28 PM	#36
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Allowin wrote: ... nobody said anything to you for the first year you were crying to sony about wanting to be equal... Bull frakking crap. Brawlers and monks specifically had lamearse guardians spewing forth idiocy and stupidity from the very beginning. The oft used phrase was, "Want to tank? Roll a guardian." So take your crap and shove it ya noob. And just so you're absolutely clear...Fighters tank. Brawlers are fighters. Monks are brawlers. Guess that makes them a fighter too, which means they tank. Their DPS does NOT match anything but a lazy ranger/assassin/brigand/warlock/wizard/etc. __________________ ... in bed.

12-27-2005, 11:19 PM	#38
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	They're not going to change the core role of the final sub-class choice. Any class that started as a fighter pre-revamp will still be a fighter post-revamp. They're not going to make monks and bruisers into melee dps. There's already enough dps classes out there. We don't need any more. What we need is for lame tanks that suck (like all the whiny guardians on this forum) to stop playing tanks and for all the morons that chose monk or bruiser for dps, to go play swashies and brigands. Monks and bruisers are brawlers are fighters. Fighters are tanks. Fighters will always be tanks. Learn2play. =p __________________ ... in bed.

12-27-2005, 08:21 PM	#32
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	If the game is too easy, i have 2 options for you. 1) Play another game. 2) Look for ways to make it more challenging. Posting here how well you do and flaming anyone who disagree's with you is childish and a deterrant to any worthwhile discussion. As Guardians post LU13, we need all the intellegent posts we gan get on this board. We cant really play the class we chose as it was sold to us by SOE. If your warden is working so well, then go play it. We dont have the option sit and be quiet, and to trust SOE will fix us.

12-27-2005, 08:22 PM	#33
Johnd Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	I might be understanding you wrong, please tell me if I do, but ... What you are saying is that no profession can shoot at will, cause then you get agro. The tank can't agro up against that so all should step back in the damage they do. Basicly you give a character awesome power, wich he / she can't use. That sounds wrong to me. Tanking doesn't have to be boring even if you keep agro well. Lets just say you have a spell running that keeps your target glued to you like a bee on honey, but the rest of the monsters group won't be agro'ed like that. It means your team have to attack with sense, but they can go all out. Its not about being to easy, a leather tank staying alive.. thats wrong in my opinion. But any profession other then a warrior tanking is wrong imo. And in the warrior class the tanks should work in various ways. Bezerker : Good tank, but only short duration. Much damage, means less defense. So the hits will be harder from your enemie. Brawler : Based on evasion. So you won't be hit much, but if you get hit.. you have pain. Come on, you are wearing leather. Thats not ment to be hit on Guardian : You wear armor.. and lots of it. You spend your life shouting at others to [Removed for Content] them off. You didn't have time to train your weapon skills. Less damage, more plate. There are a few more professions, but I don't know anything about those.. Most people on this forum don't want to be uber. If you become a guardian you become it because you like to eat dust, dirt, mud and love the taste of blood.. your own..

12-27-2005, 11:09 PM	#37
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	Not for long, sweetheart. The archtype system is going away. SOE will have free reign to force any class into any role. A monk may end up a healing class, or DPS. Templars may be tanks. Wardens may be the new Guardian. I've said it before, i'll say it again: This is SOE's way of righting the wrong of trying to balance Avoidance tanks vs. Mitigation tanks. They will never admit they were wrong to try this crap. I promise you, it will get to the point where every time you log in you will cross your fingers and pray that you still have the same class you logged out with. They did it with SWG, they'll do it here.

12-27-2005, 11:21 PM	#39
Kain Hammersmith Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 73	Yes a Monk's DPS can meet a lazy ranger/brigand/blah/blah/blah, but what does our DPS meet? A monk on Auto attack. Seem fair? Let me put it this way. If right now SOE came in and changed the classes again and Monks were made to be healers you would want to be equal healers and have equal DPS right? So you understand what we are saying. BTW, Sniper I have read many of your posts and I think you need to take a break from the forums. Your posts are full of name calling and flaming. I can only guess that you are in your early teens and have nothing better to do. I am sorry if you dont have any RL friends to talk to. But please dont come here and show us how immature you are. Thanks __________________

12-27-2005, 11:47 PM	#40
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Kain Hammersmith wrote: Yes a Monk's DPS can meet a lazy ranger/brigand/blah/blah/blah, but what does our DPS meet? A monk on Auto attack. Seem fair? Let me put it this way. If right now SOE came in and changed the classes again and Monks were made to be healers you would want to be equal healers and have equal DPS right? So you understand what we are saying. I don't care what my DPS or HPS is as long as I have fun and have the ability to keep the group alive by whatever means my class has available to them. Whether it's through defensive buffs and decent taunts, or mediocre dps and avoidance, or good buffs and decent heals. As long as I'm having fun... numbers don't mean squat.It's funny how there's so few guardians actually whining about their class. Especially since they're often the majority of the tanks played. Seems the greatest majority of guardians are enjoying their class and playing the game instead of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and moaning about their class on the forums. I see guardians tank just fine each and every day I play the game. As a healer, I don't care what kind of tank I have in a group. As long as their gear is decent and they know how to play their class, the group will be pretty successful. BTW, Sniper I have read many of your posts and I think you need to take a break from the forums. Your posts are full of name calling and flaming. I can only guess that you are in your early teens and have nothing better to do. I am sorry if you dont have any RL friends to talk to. But please dont come here and show us how immature you are. Thanks Oh noes. I called someone an idiot who is deserving of that title. Big deal. Maybe they'll wonder why I called them an idiot and look to themselves for the answer. If they can't find it, I'll tell them here and now. They're idiots because they whine about a perfectly viable class that the majority of the pleople playing that class seem to enjoy. I'm just sick of seeing all the morons whining about the same things over and over like a damned broken record. The class is what it is and there's nothing wrong with it. The number are on my side. I mean seriously. Look at the numbers.Count the number of unique individuals whining on these forums about their class and then compare it to the number of guardians in game. Seems to me the vast majority enjoy the class and are capable of playing the class with a modicum of skill. The idiots here just suck and need to reroll or play a different game since they can't handle playing a guardian. Maybe they should play a scout that groups and groups only since mashing buttons without regard to aggro control is the only thing they know. __________________ ... in bed.

12-27-2005, 11:49 PM	#41
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Johndoo wrote: That way we will loose our power burning on taunts, mobs will stick to us like glue and any other profession can go full out on dps, cause we own agro. I only see this benefit all classes and not only the guardians. Wow sounds fun... whoops no it doesn't. Sounds like the bore fest that was combat preLU13. It would make our role defining, we would have our special own thing. It would make your role very defining, you'd become the only tank... again. __________________

12-27-2005, 11:53 PM	#42
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Allowin wrote: nobody said anything to you for the first year you were crying to sony about wanting to be equal. but you want to come here and talk trash and troll our forums for doing the same thing you did for a year? Sure they did. Captain Tuna led the charge, but a lot of other guardians who, most of which are no longer here, flamed me for pages and pages of multiple threads for wanting brawlers to be realistic tank options. you said if they changed it, you would asked to be equal as a melee dps. Where? Read your own quote... I said balanced as melee dps. I never said equal anything. __________________

12-28-2005, 12:02 AM	#43
SkarlSpeedbu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 243	Sweet thread. I give it an A for originality. Lets see, guardians suck, its all gaiges fault, and we wanna be the only tank. I'm proud to be a guardian boy ol boy. __________________ Grissil Blockhead, Guildleader Smoke "If you build a family with snakes, then expect to be bitten"

12-28-2005, 12:06 AM	#44
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Nah, guardians don't suck. They're actually pretty good tanks. The ones that suck are the dumbasses whining on the guardian forums. All full of woe is me bullcrap. I read through the "suggestions" thread stickied above. OMG what a load of crap. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near every post in there is gimmie this and gimmie that. Make me uber again. They're all horrible suggestions with no regard to actually making the game fun and challenging. People whining about losing aggro... oh well. That's part of the challenge. No challenge makes a game boring. People don't want to play a boring game. So up the challenge more. Increase damage from white/yellow con heroics. Make it a thrill to play again. I'm sick of ezmode and want to have fun playing the game. Not be bored to tears mashing buttons which is what would happen if even half the suggestions from the whiny crybabies got implemented. __________________ ... in bed.

12-28-2005, 01:24 AM	#45
mastersard Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 403	You want a challenge? Here's 2: 1) Roll a Guardian and tank your way to 60. 2) Make an intellegent post that doesn't insult anyone and doesn't make you look like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Until you have done at least 1 of these, you really have no business here.

12-28-2005, 01:26 AM	#46
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	I was going to make a guardian. Got to lvl 19 and had to make a choice. Finally decided I didn't want to be associated with such a bunch of lamearse whiners and crybabies, I chose berserker instead. So glad I did. Guardians haven't changed at all since the day they lost their coveted position of best tank overall. Now all fighters tank pretty much equally well and that's great. Yet you guardians here can't stop whining and crying about it. Y'all make me sick. If it wasn't for friends that played guardians, I'd be just as happy to never group with a guardian again. __________________ ... in bed.

12-28-2005, 01:27 AM	#47
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Gaige wrote: then you can bet I will post my opinion and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class. umm come on man. make your mind up. thats your exact quote. thats exactly what im doing here. sony wants us balanced, we are balanced...TANKS. guardians dont have 1/10th the dps of a bruiser or monk. and dont have 1/2 the utility (usefull utility) as a pally or SK. so im posting my opinions and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class. whats good for the goose is good for the blah blah blah now tell me you honestly think that guardians are equal to a monk or bruiser in dps. or equal to a SK or pally in utility? and for whats-your-name. go troll somewhere else. you are ignorant to guardians as you have stated many times that you dont play a guardian. why people feel the need to come here (this is the guardian forums last i checked) to call names, flame and whine and cry saying that we are whining and crying is beyond me. Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-2005 12:32 PM

12-28-2005, 01:33 AM	#48
Johnd Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Not be bored to tears mashing buttons which is what would happen if even half the suggestions from the whiny crybabies got implemented. And only using your taunts to keep agro from the monsters on you instead of the squishies is fun ?

12-28-2005, 01:33 AM	#49
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	SniperKitty wrote: I was going to make a guardian. Got to lvl 19 and had to make a choice. Finally decided I didn't want to be associated with such a bunch of lamearse whiners and crybabies i for one am glad you chose not to taint our class with your negative banter and nonstop flames and crying Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-200512:35 PM Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-2005 12:35 PM

12-28-2005, 01:35 AM	#50
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Allowin wrote: umm come on man. make your mind up. thats your exact quote. Yup, and notices how it says "balanced as melee DPS". Not equal DPS to every other melee DPS class. thats exactly what im doing here. sony wants us balanced, we are balanced...TANKS. guardians dont have 1/10th the dps of a bruiser or monk. and dont have 1/2 the utility (usefull utility) as a pally or SK. Wow go figure. Other non-guardians and I tried to convince guardians that after LU13 they needed increased DPS/utility. They wanted nothing of it. They wanted defense/tanking increases, they said "who cares about DPS and utility, I'm a guardian". You only have yourselves to thank for your current situation. so im posting my opinions and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class. Now you want to be a melee DPS class? whats good for the goose is good for the blah blah blah It wasn't, according to guardians, prior to LU13. What was good for guardians... was good for guardians - ie being the best tank - and if you didn't like it, they informed you to "roll a guardian". now tell me you honestly think that guardians are equal to a monk or bruiser in dps. or equal to a SK or pally in utility? Nope. I've never said that either. Guardians are better tanks than all of those though. Message Edited by Gaige on 12-27-2005 12:36 PM __________________

12-28-2005, 01:48 AM	#51
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	"And only using your taunts to keep agro from the monsters on you instead of the squishies is fun ?" Actually what I find fun about playing a tank is controlling the pacing of combat. Controlling how fast the group moves through different areas of a dungeon. Being able to keep my group alive. Sometimes that means letting the scout tank a single, no arrow mob while the rest of the group finishes off the triple-arrow friend he brought. The tank does not have to control the aggro on every single mob during an encounter. Many scout classes and even some priest classes are quite capable of handling an add on their own while the rest of the group is occupied. On my warden, if I can survive against a mob for more than 3s and it's not an epic, I can root it and move away, leaving it there for the tank to trouble with later. I have a group root spell for encounters. Many mages have roots and charms or stuns or even mezzes. They're all some form of crowd control. Something that's useful when the tank can't be bothered to snag aggro from an add. Tanks whine about power consumption quite a bit it seems. To me, those tanks aren't playing their class properly. Use only the absolute bare minimum of attacks (preferably ones with stuns or stifles or interrupts or other similar effects like defense reduction) and your taunts. Keep an eye out for wanderers or respawns. Watch the aggro if a mob peels off onto the rogue. Be ready to take that aggro back if need be, but don't worry if the scout isn't going to die. As a healer, I love tanks that know how to manage groups like that. I love groups that know how to work well together and understand that aggro is fluid and not always guarenteed. That sometimes it's beneficial for someone else other than the tank to hold the attention of a mob or two. As a warden, my group heals kick butt. I can very easily keep the group alive, even if everyone is getting smacked around by various mobs. That's when I have the most fun is when the crap hits the fan and everyone is doing their best to bring things back under control. Whether I'm the tank or the healer... frenetic healing and taunting and stunning and killing is the best thing in the game. The more mayhem the better. Watching a tank pull, taunt, keep aggro and mashing my heal button is boring. 100% perfect aggro control makes the game too easy. People whined cause the game was too easy. Now the tanks are whining cause they don't have 100% perfect aggro control. Wah. Deal with it. Most people have learned to. __________________ ... in bed.

12-28-2005, 01:58 AM	#52
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	Gaige wrote: Allowin wrote: umm come on man. make your mind up. thats your exact quote. Yup, and notices how it says "balanced as melee DPS". Not equal DPS to every other melee DPS class. and how are we balanced? tell me a guard is balanced with a monk in dps? or a bruiser? im talking about fighters. we arent talking scouts. i mean F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S. get that? thats exactly what im doing here. sony wants us balanced, we are balanced...TANKS. guardians dont have 1/10th the dps of a bruiser or monk. and dont have 1/2 the utility (usefull utility) as a pally or SK. Wow go figure. Other non-guardians and I tried to convince guardians that after LU13 they needed increased DPS/utility. They wanted nothing of it. They wanted defense/tanking increases, they said "who cares about DPS and utility, I'm a guardian". You only have yourselves to thank for your current situation. whos they? im not here posting for "them" or "they" im posting MY opinions. im a guardian. if sony wanted fighters to be equal, lets be equal. all around. deciding to make guardians low end everything but tanking was not my idea, it was sony. im sure not going to "thank myself" for that. MG has already stated that guards will never be "uber tanks" again. im fine with that, lets all tank the same. i dont care. but lets all be equal in everything, not just tanking. my whole thing is that unless i want to be in a uber raid guild and MT raid mobs, im bottom tier fighter. guards tank the same as any other fighter in groups. so why have a class that adds almost no dps. a few worthless group buffs and one you have to wait on between every fight to regen mana? and what if i DO want to be in a uber raid guild. theres only 1 MT in a raid. and 23 other classes. so what am i supposed to do? hope the MT calls in sick or forgets to show up? so i can actually play my toon? and not have to sit out because i dont iffer anything to a raid unless i am MT? so im posting my opinions and what needs to be changed to balance us as a melee DPS class. Now you want to be a melee DPS class? here you go with your spins again. yes. i want to be equal DPS with the rest of the fighters!!! again F-I-G-H-T-E-R-S!!!! is that too much to ask for? we are all equal tanks. so yippie for that. im cool with it. we all tank alike. now give me some decent DPS so i can have something to do if im not tanking. is that clear? or can you find another spin on that quote? whats good for the goose is good for the blah blah blah It wasn't, according to guardians, prior to LU13. What was good for guardians... was good for guardians - ie being the best tank - and if you didn't like it, they informed you to "roll a guardian". well you know what. this aint pre LU13. this is post LU13. get that straight. pre LU13 we were fine with no dps or utility cause we were the "uber tanks" but now were not. as i stated, im fine with that. sony will not ever go back to guardians being the only choice for tanks. so lets move past that. lets move to post LU13. we are all equal tanks. so what exactly is my roll if im not MT? equip my DW pom poms and cheer for the raid to "knock em back, push em back, knock em wayyy back?" EVERY other fighter has a ability if they are not MT. bruiser and monks can DPS. pally and SK can do some dps and add utility, (heals, wards, evac ect ect) so what is my role if im not MT? sit in a group and pray the MT looses aggro and my group members catch a AE so i can pop my guard sphere or use one of my "l33t" protection skills and double the damage we take? now tell me you honestly think that guardians are equal to a monk or bruiser in dps. or equal to a SK or pally in utility? Nope. I've never said that either. Guardians are better tanks than all of those though. ok, answer the question. tell me you believe WE are balanced!!. you claim we are still uber tanks. well were not. are we good tanks? sure. i dont complain about not being able to tank. i can. but so can you. and so can johnny bruiser. or paul pally, or jimmy SK. so answer the question. do you think we are balanced? its a simple yes or no question. do you think guardians are balanced with other fighters? if you think so, THEN give me a example. if you dont think so, give me some of your ideas on what you think needs to be done to cure that. Message Edited by Gaige on 12-27-2005 12:36 PM Message Edited by Allowin on 12-27-2005 01:04 PM

12-28-2005, 02:03 AM	#53
Pry Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 408	SniperKitty wrote: Kain Hammersmith wrote: Yes a Monk's DPS can meet a lazy ranger/brigand/blah/blah/blah, but what does our DPS meet? A monk on Auto attack. Seem fair? Let me put it this way. If right now SOE came in and changed the classes again and Monks were made to be healers you would want to be equal healers and have equal DPS right? So you understand what we are saying. I don't care what my DPS or HPS is as long as I have fun and have the ability to keep the group alive by whatever means my class has available to them. Whether it's through defensive buffs and decent taunts, or mediocre dps and avoidance, or good buffs and decent heals. As long as I'm having fun... numbers don't mean squat. It's funny how there's so few guardians actually whining about their class. Especially since they're often the majority of the tanks played. Seems the greatest majority of guardians are enjoying their class and playing the game instead of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and moaning about their class on the forums. I see guardians tank just fine each and every day I play the game. As a healer, I don't care what kind of tank I have in a group. As long as their gear is decent and they know how to play their class, the group will be pretty successful. BTW, Sniper I have read many of your posts and I think you need to take a break from the forums. Your posts are full of name calling and flaming. I can only guess that you are in your early teens and have nothing better to do. I am sorry if you dont have any RL friends to talk to. But please dont come here and show us how immature you are. Thanks Oh noes. I called someone an idiot who is deserving of that title. Big deal. Maybe they'll wonder why I called them an idiot and look to themselves for the answer. If they can't find it, I'll tell them here and now. They're idiots because they whine about a perfectly viable class that the majority of the pleople playing that class seem to enjoy. I'm just sick of seeing all the morons whining about the same things over and over like a damned broken record. The class is what it is and there's nothing wrong with it. The number are on my side. I mean seriously. Look at the numbers. Count the number of unique individuals whining on these forums about their class and then compare it to the number of guardians in game. Seems to me the vast majority enjoy the class and are capable of playing the class with a modicum of skill. The idiots here just suck and need to reroll or play a different game since they can't handle playing a guardian. Maybe they should play a scout that groups and groups only since mashing buttons without regard to aggro control is the only thing they know. In fantasy land, there are thousands of Guardians happily playing their class and they don't post here because they are happy with their class so they don't have to! thwap You're talking about numbers, and the reality is that server populations are lower than they have ever been (thanks to LU13, and Station-Excange), that WoW numbers have exceeded 4 million subscriptions, that people are again playing other games like DAOC again and even going back to EQ1. When the subscription base for EQ1 is greater than that of EQ2 like it is now, then it would be indicative of a problem, wouldn't you agree? Now, is the reality that all of these people cancelling their subscriptions and playing other games because EQ2 is finally balanced? Or perhaps more apropos is that the game is filled with whiners (as you say) who want to intrude on poor little sniperkitty's fun. Or worse that we all never knew what we were doing so we just quit. Please. Everquest has competition out there and more to come. If you think that the subscription base of EQ2 is going to increase because they balanced fighter classes thus making the game more fun, you are high on something other than life. EQ2 is lame because when it was king daddy of MMORPG's, someone made a bad decision thinking that EQ2 would rest on its laurels. And you know as well as I do that this in the real world doesn't work. So all I can say is enjoy having fouled up economies, bugs galore, where the highest population server is the RP server for God's sake, and when SOE decides that it's not economically viable anymore, and then we'll see what they do next. My suggestion would be to change the game back to what it was, but the ego won't let it. Then and only then will I sign into my account and play once more. Until then, WoW Paladin > EQ2 Guardian. The numbers are what they are, they are on nobody's side.

12-28-2005, 02:06 AM	#54
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Wow you brought up Station Exchange as a reason players are leaving the game? __________________

12-28-2005, 02:17 AM	#55
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	SniperKitty wrote: "And only using your taunts to keep agro .... they don't have 100% perfect aggro control. Wah. Deal with it. Most people have learned to. Your post is full of I and me. To bad nobody cares what you think is good or bad with Guardians. Atleast Gaige has some entertaining arguments until most here figured out the pig in the mud hole thing. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

12-28-2005, 03:25 AM	#56
Kain Hammersmith Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 73	Funny thing is that these two, you know who you are, say that only a few Guards are complaining about our class and most are happy. Ok lets look at that. Including me there are 2 Guards in my Guild that are mains and one that is an alt. MY guild is over 100 members. My server used to have lots of Guardians running around but now when you do a search it comes back as the lowest played class next to chanters and bards. Where are all the happy Guards on these forums? Dont tell me that they are playing the game so they dont post. You guys are happy with your class so why do you post? The most vocal Guards have quit the game, so the remaining few seem to be the minority. I understand that, it may seem that way. But if you could actually find these numbers that you keep talking about I would love to see them. As of now I think that only SOE employees can access that info and they dont seem to share it with us. Any other facts according to "you" that you would like to bring. This is a forum and I hate to see name calling and such. I also hate to see people arguing about something that neither affects them or involves them. These forums would be better if only people that play a class could post in that class's forums. Wishful thinking. In closing remember this. In RL if you would not say it to someone's face than you probably shouldnt say it at all. Think about it next time you post. __________________

12-28-2005, 03:49 AM	#57
Pry Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 408	Here's my numbers from 6 months ago. You mean EQ1 subscriptions > EQ2 subscriptions even though the graphics in EQ2 are far, far superior than any other game? Nah, couldn't be Station Exchange. Nah, it couldn't be the craptacular combat system. Oh my, you mean that enormous chunk that says Lineage, Lineage II (filled with plat farmers) and World of Warcraft are filled whining idiots as subscribers?! I wonder how miniscule the chart would look like now in December. Would Toontown Online surpass EQ2 subscriptions by now? It's all the whining idiots I tell you, who don't know how to play! Runescape > EQ2! I am.....not surprised really. I think we know who the real idiot is here. The prosecution rests, your honor.

12-28-2005, 03:58 AM	#58
SniperKitty Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Kain Hammersmith wrote: Funny thing is that these two, you know who you are, say that only a few Guards are complaining about our class and most are happy. Ok lets look at that. Including me there are 2 Guards in my Guild that are mains and one that is an alt. MY guild is over 100 members. My server used to have lots of Guardians running around but now when you do a search it comes back as the lowest played class next to chanters and bards. That's funny. I still see plenty of guardians running around on my server. Guess your server is full of quitters that couldn't handle being forced to do more than mash buttons without thinking about what they were mashing. Where are all the happy Guards on these forums? Dont tell me that they are playing the game so they dont post. You guys are happy with your class so why do you post? I post while at work since my job allows me plenty of free time. I don't post so much when at home. The most vocal Guards have quit the game, so the remaining few seem to be the minority. I understand that, it may seem that way. But if you could actually find these numbers that you keep talking about I would love to see them. As of now I think that only SOE employees can access that info and they dont seem to share it with us. Any other facts according to "you" that you would like to bring. This is a forum and I hate to see name calling and such. I also hate to see people arguing about something that neither affects them or involves them. These forums would be better if only people that play a class could post in that class's forums. Wishful thinking. In closing remember this. In RL if you would not say it to someone's face than you probably shouldnt say it at all. Think about it next time you post. This isn't real life however. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. Not boring. What guardians want would make the game BORING again. Just like pre-LU13. I don't want that again so I'm going to do whatever it takes to get these whiny guardians threads locked down and ignored. They serve no purpose other than to try and railroad the devs into making the guardians the goober-uber tank again and make the other five tanks useless for anything but easy, boring content. Since their dps is so uber... whatever. I said it before, there's no reason at all to invite a tank to a group to do anything beyond tanking. DPS, get a scout or mage. Healing? Get a priest. Tanking... well that leaves a fighter. Best groups are tank, healer, dps x 4. They go quick, fast and furious with very little downtime. If the tank knows how to hold themselves back from mashing combat arts and wasting power. I also hate to see people arguing about something that neither affects them or involves them. But it does affect us. If you guardians get your way, you'd be the only tank worth playing in the game, making them the defacto tank that people look for. Which that does effect how people perceive the other tanks like monks and paladins. That is the biggest reason I hate these forums and think they shouldn't exist. It doesn't matter how [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing game is. There's always some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] whining about this or that without any clue about how their suggestions would affect the overall game.I''m a gamer. I've played various games for fifteen plus years. I'm also a game designer. Only been doing that for a year and a half now, but I've learned a lot and done some research on making games fun and enjoyable. Guess what... boring grind != enjoyable. Godmode != long term fun. There's a happy medium between tedious, boring work and ezmode. Guardians want ezmode. Guess what... that will ruin the game faster than making the game more like EQ1.So do you see now why it does involve or affect me? Or are you too dense and wrapped up in your tank ego to understand? By the way, the reason I'm so crass here is to get these threads locked and ignored. They're useless and pointless threads because the devs are likely never going to listen to you because what the vocal minority of the guardians want is detrimental to the long term health of the game. They've probably made their decisions about the classes and will do what needs to be done instead of what the crybabies think and want. __________________ ... in bed.

12-28-2005, 04:15 AM	#59
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	i would like to be the first to say im sorry. sorry gaige, i thought you were the most ignorant flamer on these boards. but i was wrong. your a einstein and pacifist compared to Sniper. i have never seen one person so ignorant to something, so ready to flame and call names and talk trash about something that has nothing to do with them. something that does not effect them and they have no right adding their moronic 2 cents about. and BTW. i think i win the award for shutting gaige up. i see its been several hours and no reply to my last post. is this a mythical discovery on the forums?

12-28-2005, 04:19 AM	#60
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	Sniperkitty... your just ignorant and offensive. Don't think your dribble here is going to make people change their minds. It's not. Better people that you have come here and tried. I ask you to present facts and numbers. If you can't then eventually you'll get tired of people telling you what you are and leave. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.