Hey, assassins!

[deciever]

Most of this has been said before.. But, if you're an assassin, it probably won't hurt you to read this... If you're not, the same applies. This is an honest post from an honest person. Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be.  But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and  then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!! There's a problem. Most of the assassins damage comes from our backstabs,  which we can only use if we are stealthed. Soloing. This is a pain, because we only have one stun, and it's not even a very good one at that.. So.. Even if we do have our backstabs up, in a solo fight, we kill much slower than other DPS classes, especially if there are multiple mobs. We can't do our AoE's if we have agro, especially if it's agro of multiple mobs. It would be awesome to be significant, and special, as assassins. We aren't even good as of now. What is our class defining ability? There's nothing really cool about being less-effective at soloing than at grouping, and  there's nothing really cool about not being the best melee damage, especially since we have so much restriction placed on us. Assassins are not a really good class right now, even if there's a really good player behind them. I think I am a good player, I use strategy and I'm  fast and careful.. I love assassins. I love my class for what it is.. I just  wish we were better at what we are supposed to do. Why would anyone be better at assassinating things than assassins? It doesn't make sense to me. I like a challenge. But, this is beyond a challenge. This is out of my hands. I don't think there's much of anything that can be done to our current CA's that would make us OVERPOWERED. As of now, we are underpowered. We can't sustain any good damage in the shadow of other DPS classes, and we have nothing to compensate for that in any situation. Our medium of doing damage is very straight-forward, pretty much.. BACKSTAB! I'd rather chain weaker backstabs than have to wait on recasts for slightly stronger ones.. At least then damage could be sustained. If we just had significantly smaller recasts, I am sure all assassins would  just shut up and be happy. I think everyone would be happy. Assassins would be happy to be desired, and people would be happy to have them in groups or raids. It would be awesome to be substantial, significant, and effective at all times. It would be fun to be efficient and useful. Something else that kind of sucks is that we have to STEALTH and get into POSITION in fights to even do anything. I like stealth, and I don't mind having to go behind a mob to land a backstab, it goes great with the idea of an assassin, but, if we have to do that, why don't we do better damage? If we can't do better damage, why does it take so long to do the damage we can do? I think assassins still need fixing. I think a lot of assassins agree with that, if not all of them. I think even a lot of other people who play different classes would agree that we ought to be better if they knew our  situation. If YOU think we DESERVE to be like this, at least tell us why, or tell us so.. At least tell us we won't be fixed.. Is this how we are supposed  to be? We're supposed to be good at.. nothing? We're not upset for no reason.  We're not power-hungry.. I just want balance.. Or compensation.. Or  something. I don't want anyone to be nerfed.. I just want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.. And I think that most people would agree with that if they could think outside themselves.. Would us being better ruin the game for anyone? Would it make other people not have fun? Assassins don't excel at anything.. In any  situation. I'd rather hear that assassins won't ever change, or that things are set in stone, than hear nothing at all... To think that the people who made us the way we are don't care about us. At least then I could have spite. I am not bitter, I am not angry. I am just not satisfied with the way things  are now.. But, is anyone? I love this game, even with all its flaws, I love it. I even love things about it that I hate. I spend most of my free time playing it, if not all of it.. I am greatful to SOE and the devs and the gms and the art designers and  everyone who helps make this game great. Even the playerbase and community..  I will be playing this game for a long time, through thick and thin.. And I am going to stick with my class no matter what, it's the class for me... But, I think it's important that it is known.. There is a problem with our class.. And I think I speak for all assassins when I say that we would like to be fixed, to be better. Give us answers or promises, please.. Anything. I want to be good. I want to be good in some sort of situation. I want to have  neat tricks or places to shine. I think that this thread is a good place to reply with anything constructive on how the assassin class can be made better.. Or ideas.. Or anything.. Even responses like, "I feel the same way." or.. "You're stupid." I don't care.  Flame me if you really want to. Yeah.. Well.. There was my speech rant thing of 2 copper pieces worth..  Anyway, the other day I was grouping with my bruiser friend, and he used this ability where he like... Teleported.. Then he hit a mob a few times, and then teleported back to where he was standing before he teleported. I thought that was amazing.. It was the coolest CA I have ever seen.. Just because it was something out of the ordinary. Why don't assassins get anything so cool? Or..  At least a cool graphic or something? And.. Why does our 50 fun spell make us look like we're puffing out dirt from our skin? I think that "swathing shadows" ought to look more like thick black or transparent-black particles moving quickly all over our characters.. Doesn't anyone else? Sheesh.<div></div>

[Quicks]

<div></div>/agree. Great post. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Quicksil on <span class=date_text>11-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:25 PM</span>

[Kabahl]

Things I found to be the most relevant:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR>Most of this has been said before.. But, if you're an assassin, it probably won't hurt you to read this... If you're not, the same applies. This is an honest post from an honest person.<BR><BR>Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be.  But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and  then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!!<BR><BR><STRONG><U><FONT color=#ffff33>It would be awesome to be significant, and special, as assassins. We aren't even good as of now. What is our class defining ability? There's nothing really cool about being less-effective at soloing than at grouping, and  there's nothing really cool about not being the best melee damage, especially since we have so much restriction placed on us.<BR></FONT></U></STRONG><BR>It would be awesome to be substantial, significant, and effective at all times. It would be fun to be efficient and useful.<BR><BR>I like stealth, and I don't mind having to go behind a mob to land a backstab, it goes great with the idea of an assassin, but, if we have to do that, why don't we do better damage? If we can't do better damage, why does it take so long to do the damage we can do?<BR><BR><STRONG><U><FONT color=#ffff00>Is this how we are supposed  to be? We're supposed to be good at.. nothing? We're not upset for no reason.  We're not power-hungry.. I just want balance.. Or compensation.. Or  something. I don't want anyone to be nerfed.. I just want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.. And I think that most people would agree with that if they could think outside themselves.. Would us being better ruin the game for anyone? Would it make other people not have fun? Assassins don't excel at anything.. In any  situation.<BR></FONT></U></STRONG><BR>I think it's important that it is known.. There is a problem with our class.. And I think I speak for all assassins when I say that <STRONG><U><FONT color=#ffff00>we would like to be fixed, to be better. Give us answers or promises, please.. Anything. I want to be good. I want to be good in some sort of situation. I want to have  neat tricks or places to shine.</FONT></U></STRONG><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I completely agree, especially with the highlighted, underlined, yellow text (but I'm sure you figured that out (-: ).  I really would like more situations where, when it's over and the dust settles, people  think, "Man, I'm sure glad we had that assassin along to help out . . ."  I've heard this about almost every other class in one situation or another (and for those few of you that I haven't heard this about . . . I feel for you, brother.) but NEVER about an assassin in ANY situation.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know there are othe classes in a similar situation.  There are some classes you just never hear tell about because there's no "special something" that someone else can't do and can't do better . . . or at least do the same AND other stuff as well.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's no "uniqueness" to the Assassin class.  High melee auto-attack damage?   Well, pretty much every figher and scout has that ability (even though many fighters opt for one hander and shield, they CAN do it if they're not main tank). . . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>High damage abilties/spells?  Well, just look at wizards, warlocks, rangers, swashbuckers, brigands . . . heck there's a ton of classes that can do high damage with spells/abilities WITHOUT worrying about stealth and running around like a chicken without a head to figure out where in the heck the back of the mob is through the 24 other people in the raid and the spell effects going off (I want them OFF totally.  I have particle effects turned as low as they go, but I want spell effects on a different option as it is in EQ 1.  I want to see environmental particle effects, I want ALL spell effects OFF, and nobody can seem to tell me how to leave one on and turn OFF the other in EQ 2).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Umm . . . what about stifle?  Well no, other classes can do that . . . with a much greater duration . . .without having to slip into stealth AND worrying about being able to hit a mob with melee attacks (I've seen casters having a much greater chance of hititng orange con mobs with spells than melee classes hitting orange con mobs with melee attacks).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Umm . . . . . . oh, we can root!  Well . . . rangers, warlocks, wizards, necros . . yada yada . . . all can root better, longer, faster, stronger. . . . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OOOOh,  I know, EVAC!  . .. . well, wizards, EVERY scout class, some fighters . . . they get that ability as well . . . . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh. . .  um . . . . oh, we can POISON! . . . Sure, but so can some of the other scout classes . . .. add to that the prohibitive costs in finding an alchemist that can (and will) make poisons, some of the short duration (4 procs only) of some poisons, and the buff vanishing upon death . . . OR mentoring . . . and well, it becomes very expensive just to be able to maintain good, high level, poisons . . . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But wait, we can Assassinate!  Sure, once every 15 minutes we can hit for 4000 to 7000 (or so) damage . . . . once . . . . . . . . if you don't get blocked, parried, riposted . . . or just plain miss . . . from BEHIND the mob . . . . . while in STEALTH no less! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can go on . . . REALY I can.  I've got at least 5 or 6 more melee attacks I'm really wanting to write about ( e.g. dot damage?  mobs don't last that long . . . ) and I haven't even MENTIONED our ranged attacks . . . especially in comparison to rangers (and I say GOOD for them, it's what they are SUPPOSED to do) yet I watch rangers root and shoot, root trap between them, and I've seen them SOLO 64 ^^^ Epic mobs in Poets Palace . . . and since they do their damage from a distance. . . they don't have to worry about getting hit.  We have to get into melee. And root, in this instance, is no good, since mobs turn to face the closest person in melee even if they are in stealth (us if we try to go and backstab).  I don't begrudge rangers this, it's what they are built for and they do it extremely well. . . . .but we got . . . umm . . .we have . . . . . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ________________.  (Sony, I implore you, please fill in the blank.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Charn the Loyal, 57 Assassin, Toxxulia </DIV>

[dj_krztoff]

<div></div>so wait ... what you're saying is that assassins are broken?  <div></div><p>Message Edited by dj_krztoff on <span class=date_text>11-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:08 PM</span>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kabahl wrote:There's no "uniqueness" to the Assassin class.  <font color="#ffff00">High melee auto-attack damage? </font>  Well, pretty much every figher and scout has that ability (even though many fighters opt for one hander and shield, they CAN do it if they're not main tank). . . <font color="#ff0000">Honestly, our auto-attack damage isn't even that high. We have no permanent haste buffs, so we proc less with our offensive stance and poisons, I believe. I'd rather have a good permanent haste buff than a permanent DPS% buff..</font> <div> </div></blockquote></span><div></div>

[deciever]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>dj_krztoff wrote:<div></div>so wait ... what you're saying is that assassins are broken?  <div></div><hr></blockquote> I didn't mean to imply that we are broken... Our class works. It just doesn't do what it's supposed to do as well as other DPS classes do, and oftentimes, it doesn't even come close.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by deciever69 on <span class=date_text>11-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:32 PM</span>

[dj_krztoff]

<b>ME has gotten worse at [implied sarcasm]</b><div></div>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>dj_krztoff wrote:<b>ME has gotten worse at [implied sarcasm]</b><div></div><hr> <span>:smileysad:</span> </blockquote></span><div></div>

[pczry]

play a tanking class and i promise you'll shine. <div></div>

[dj_krztoff]

My main is actually an SK ... [Removed for Content]<div></div>

[Jakr]

i have a paly lol <div></div>

[khalysta]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR><BR>Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be.  But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and  then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!!<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Having little to no unique utilities is a good thing.  The less utility you have the more you can always argue for dps which in my mind is a good thing.  We may not be the best right now but you always have to keep in mind balancing is never really done and slowly but surely our position will get refined and hopefully improve for the better <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Shayne74]

<P>Broken is not the word. We are now beyond broken..The last patch was in the right direction more DPS but to make our only stun 2 seconds? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] were they thinking our fast stealth doesn't work in combat ..so now we go hit stun get off stealth and are hit before we can use a backstab. hell my 35 monk has 3 stuns even master II stun only has 2 seconds. I think atleast 5 seconds for a stun 2 seconds to stealth 1 to position and 2 to cast might cut it a bit more but 2 seconds is useless. So all we can do is choose to use arrows to pull or stealth backstab root face to face and back up to get arrow shot off. In small groups its not to hard of a problem if you can stay behind the mob but this is BS having a lvl 53 char and having a hard time fighting down arrows around the same lvl because you can't get backstabs off while fighting. </P> <P> </P> <P>Thought last patch was bad when they took all the haste away except 1 we can use for a minute every 5 minutes but our big dmg comes only once every 15mins why not give us a 15 min root so we can wait for it to come back up to do dmg again because a few more DPS isn't cutting it if we have to walk up to every mob stealthed to backstab...oh wait we can't to every mob as they see invis so we have to hit that mob with arrow shot for what 187 dmg X 2 hmm sure alot of dmg there then can't backstab with the big 2 second stun we are left with.</P>

[deciever]

I want to hit hard. I want to hit hard, and I want to hit hard as often as I can. That's why I made an assassin. I didn't want utility, otherwise I would have made a bard or a fairy or something. We really do have a lot of trouble soloing.. While other DPS classes have it much easier because they don't have to do all this crap just to get a mob to die.. It's ridiculous.. <div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:I want to hit hard. I want to hit hard, and I want to hit hard as often as I can. That's why I made an assassin. I didn't want utility, otherwise I would have made a bard or a fairy or something. We really do have a lot of trouble soloing.. While other DPS classes have it much easier because they don't have to do all this crap just to get a mob to die.. It's ridiculous.. <hr></blockquote> </span><span><blockquote><hr>khalysta wrote:<div> Having little to no unique utilities is a good thing.  The less utility you have the more you can always argue for dps which in my mind is a good thing.  We may not be the best right now but you always have to keep in mind balancing is never really done and slowly but surely our position will get refined and hopefully improve for the better <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote></span> Yea... Here's to hope! /raises a glass of champagne <div></div>

[Onil]

<P>Excellent post, A lot of very valid points. I hope one of the muckity-mucks in development see this.</P> <P>Thank You for stating the Assassin position, so eloquently!</P>

[Demonskill]

How bout make our Wicked Villany (DPS buff) to affect our CA as well? this will improve our overall DPS and will not affect the other classes as well. It's easy and simple without putting large dmg # in our CA.Anyways, if our skill requires so much, i think they gotta be HUGE dmg. Compare to other classes's CA, we aren't that much higher, and they don't require stealth/behind mob/flanking etc etc... If we required that much i think we should be doing 2x the dmg at least compare to the others.Recast time is nuts on our core attack, right now when i am in chain grinding group, i have to interchange 3 different combo:1) bunch of combo + gorestrike + garrote (maybe deathlyblade when it's up)2) bunch of combo + Fel Shot + Splitting Viper (arrow combo)3) Wicked Villany + Brutal Focus (usually when everything is grey out)Sometimes i think im out of choices when all these 3 combo are out. simply because combo 1 and 2 are 1 min recast, combo 3 is <b>5 mins</b> recast.BTW, why nerf our Honed Reflex?? 1 min 21 secs down to 1 min and u call that "more effective"? Our class already well under power, and you give us a bone and nerf the other so you think we don't whine as much? I think our Wicked Villany should add in a haste component pair up with the DPS buff as well!

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>Oniliv wrote:<p>Excellent post, A lot of very valid points. I hope one of the muckity-mucks in development see this.</p> <p>Thank You for stating the Assassin position, so eloquently!</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote><span>:smileyhappy:</span></span><div></div>

[Hawgeous]

<P>From a logical standpoint I can understand a need to stealth before engaging a fight to hit them hard and attempt to take them out but once the fight begins its a little silly to think you would hide right in front of the target and sneek around to his back side.</P> <P>I have no problem doing this but as eluded to above a 2 second root is not adequate time for me to get behind the mob and stick him.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think the assassin class is defined by sticking from the backside and stealth but we are to limited on roots and stealths to use our defining abilities IMHO. </P> <P> </P> <P>One of my primary concerns is our design is for single mob targest only IMO, yes we have a couple of AoEs but only in group can I manage to use any of then after the fight has begun and with the long cast time (thought it was reduced with the last patch but I can tell that it was) I usually see one of two results 1. stealth is broken so I can't cast or 2. casting, casting, almost there, "target is dead".</P> <P>In a group there is no way I can put out acceptable DPS in a multi target engagement but I do pretty well with solo targets and now days I only solo when harvesting and something attacks me.</P>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>You know what irks me?? rangers got even MORE haste.......GRRRRR they keep on pulling away and we are their brother class and nothing majour is done to help us</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW Swipe still sucks....other procs go off a lot more (gleaming strike being a 5% goes off at least 2x in mele...one is a 10% proc the other is a 5% yet the 5% going off 2X MORE OFTEN???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW i do wield a leafblade in MH......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now 4 CA's need priority fixing......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 3 dot CA we get need to tick faster or do more upfront dmg...btw lingering blow line needs to get its old 2 kinds of dmg back......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our stealt atacks should be the fastest casting bar none .5 is too much to chain annything and surveil should have super fast casting also</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cripple needs the back only changed to side/back atm its prety useless back only</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give us an option to disable the "red key when out of range" its completely messed up and i dont like it at all</DIV>

[NerroVI]

Well there is one easy thing they could put in for assassins AND rangers simply put a 2 slot concentration ability something like Innate Stealth for assassins and Innate Camoflauge for rangers <since they are more woodsies type is that a word /scratch> anyway a ability that can be put on similar to like pathfinding that would keep us in a stealth mode it would only be really benificial in a group setting though which is the counter to it being over powered, it wouldnt be really used for soloing, so in a group you would have murderous design, apply poison, and innate stealth on thats 4 concentration spots taken up and even if you get hit with a AE your still in stealth the timers on the various backstabs would still limit you basically to a max of 5 stealth attacks in a usual group fight but it takes the anoyance of stealth broken .5 secs before u land a AE backstab from some mobs assault. 2 ae stealth attacks gorestrike punchblade garrote When were solo basically u can lead off with your backstab of choice cheap shot move in back backstab again you arent really gaining anything cos once u land the next hit the mob is unstunned regardless and your still toe to toe, make it a higher level line to replace the 2 other sneaks. <div></div>

[Raage]

<DIV>I have to say that assassins are by far the most challenging class I've tried (I've not tried any casters past lvl 15). I play a 47 Monk as my main, and love it. I wanted to find a solid ALT (when I run outta 'V') so I've played a Paly, SK, Ranger, Swashbuckler, and now an assassin. I know this isn't a great litmus test, but they are all beyond level 20. IMO the Ranger & Swash are sick. Great DPS, minimal positioning REQUIRED. At the start of a fight w/ those 2 you obviously wanna stun and get off whatever stealthed/ positional attack you have, but after that you can go toe-2-toe w/ em ok. </DIV> <DIV>But man, w/ the Assassin (which is now my favorite of the bunch, partly due to the difficulty), you are all over the place. At level 25 things are still mostly fine, and real fun, but I can see trouble on the horizon. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my very limited experience so far, it would seem that the assassin could be helped a lot by a few simple things (as suggested by others as well):</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Another stun 5 secs + (It must works on heroics, as getting behind is our key)</DIV> <DIV>2) Another "Shadow Blade" sort of attack. Used in concert w/ the new stun allows another stealthed and/or positional attack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know some of these are rehased, but I wanted to add my .02 as I think it's important to get the assassin's at later levels fixed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Get]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Right now 4 CA's need priority fixing...... <div> </div> <div>The 3 dot CA we get need to tick faster or do more upfront dmg...btw lingering blow line needs to get its old 2 kinds of dmg back......</div> <div> </div> <div>Our stealt atacks should be the fastest casting bar none .5 is too much to chain annything and surveil should have super fast casting also</div> <div> </div> <div>Cripple needs the back only changed to side/back atm its prety useless back only</div> <div> </div> <div>Give us an option to disable the "red key when out of range" its completely messed up and i dont like it at all</div><hr></blockquote>i agree completely this fix wasnt as big as i had hoped it would be and just to throw this out there still hate my recast times  on a lot of my spells =P</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Getre on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:37 AM</span>

[sunkin]

I was thinking of something that might make assassins more worth while and fix there problems and i have an idea. I haven't been reading every post on here since i find they tend to be depressing hearing about how much our class sucks hehe. So if it's already been posted sorry. But what about a new line of poisons for assassins only, that stacks with all the current ones. This could be good in many ways. We could choose the obviouse dmg poison to boost our dps to where it should be. But also we can descide to choose a debuff or stun or something like that to give us more utility and give us more of a use in raids and groups. Since the poisons would be assassin only they could fine tune them so they are not so overpowering or worthless. Of course this poiosn should be really cheap so it would have to be a npc that sells it. For roleplaying this could also work really well. Just put a shady poison dealer only  we can talk to somewhere in the sewers or something. But idunno just a thought i figured might be worth sharing. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sunkin Sojourner</DIV> <DIV>60 Assassin Fortitude Kithicor</DIV>

[deciever]

If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be.<div></div>

[deciever]

Also, why are 3 of our only attacks that we can use from the front mostly dots? If they just did all their damage at once, I think they would be more useful, as their durations usually go far over the time it takes to kill mobs in a grouping situation. Is it so we can dot and then do backstabs, and have the dots damage add to our overall damage during a fight? Why are the durations so long? I wish they just did more damage.. Faster. <div></div>

[Demonskill]

totally agree with you deciever69. the 3 backstab putting us in gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min, assassinate 3/5 mins can really put us to tier 1 no problem. I've been in chain grinding TRIO group, and we kill each heroic encounter in 20 secs or so. I've no idea why I was casting my DoT because the battle end too fast, and might as well just not use them at all and use something else.Oh btw, i think my autoattack do more dmg than those stupid DoT, consider they need 0.5 secs to cast

[deciever]

I am starting to think that SOE completely scrapped the whole "DPS tier" idea, since it's completely fuxxored right now. It's funny. Oh, well. I still love EQ2. But... Our auto-attack damage still sort of sucks. Haha. We have no permanent self-haste. If we had permanent-self haste.. We'd get more poison procs, and more weapon procs, I think.. That would add to our damage. And.. Our damage is based on our strength, yet we get no strength buffs.. Bahh. <div></div>

[deciever]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:totally agree with you deciever69. the 3 backstab putting us in gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min, assassinate 3/5 mins can really put us to tier 1 no problem. <hr></blockquote>It would also in no way make us overpowered, as most fights do not even last longer than 1 minute... And it would allow us to at least sustain good damage on raid mobs. It can't even be argued against by anyone who hasn't played an assassin to a high level. We really need better recasts on those moves specifically, and we could still use upgrades in other areas as well.. But, honestly, I made an assassin to do damage.. Okay? I think anyone who makes an assassin makes one to do damage.. I mean, that's what they're for, right? They can't do anything else! And.. If we can't be good at soloing because of all the restriction placed upon us, we should at least be better melee damage in groups than other DPS classes, or at least the scouts. If these changes will make us better than Rangers, then, I'd suggest that they get upgrades too, to keep us inline with them... But, either way, assassins are not Tier 1 DPS.. We never are.. And.. We should be, if it was promised. We want to be fixed. If you have the power to fix us, if you're willing to help us, we're willing to help you. I love this game.. I just want assassins to be better! A lot of people do! </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by deciever69 on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:07 PM</span>

[big da]

Well there is no doubt that we are probably the most challenging dps class to play. Anyone ever try to find the rear end of a book in say poets palace <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>  I end up running around like a pseudo ranger chicken with my head cut off shooting arrows and sure you can try to face the tank but the casters are sitting back nuking things to death and by the time you think you re readyto stick your blade into it's little glossary.. wham it's dead....drat....Of course this applies to all form of wisps goos  and other similar no visible rear end mobs  .<span>:smileysad:Everyone has their preconceived  ideas what a class should be when they first enter a game. I figured the Assassin to be a solo typeclass. I mean it just evokes the Ninja style killing of one stealthy individual planning to murder it s target in one quick fell swoop  Of coursethings rarely turn out like you think. Although we can do that to some regard with stealth and Assassinate 4 times each hour... I never figureda trained killer would get his or her butt kicked in a face to face confrontation. And why we have to go invisible once a mob has seen us anddoesnt even lose track of us if we do still escapes me. If we could stealth in a fight and the mob lost track and we could slip in to register anotherhit.. melee a bit and stealth away again. That would be fun and assassin like. Then they can keep the long refresh timers. We would just whittlethe mob down a little at a time.  I know I know im off in fantasy land here. One thought on a non overpowering defining skill.. Assassin quests to gain shape shifting abilities that acted like stealths so that when we walkby those Cyclops in POF they thind we are one of them. or take human shape and take a tour around Qeynos if you are evil ..Ok If only I were a game designer <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span><div></div>

[Graton]

this might come out as a boast, it's not meant to be. maybe i'm too easily please, but i don't think so. i'm not entirely happy with where the assassin class currently is. i feel in groups we still need to do more dmg and i also feel our power consumption is too much. what i don't think is that i need any more help to solo. i solo, in my opinion, perfectly fine. i can take the solo multiple mob encounters , i can kill heroic one ups that are white quite easily and i can get yellow ones if one of my high dmg attacks is up. i like the fact that to succesfully solo i have to think. i recently did the blades arena quest where you fight 10 rounds in the arena against increasing difficulty mobs. i can't remember having more fun. i made rules for myself - no more than 2 minutes rest between rounds and no evac. it was exciting, i had to hold back on certain attacks and utilize near everything to pull it off but i was able to. i realize that if i was a berserker or bruiser i probably could have done that blindfolded but y'know, it would bore the hell out of me.  i honestly hope our current stun stays the way it is because its limitations are what make it interesting. you can use it against heroic mobs, under certain circumstances and i personally find that fine. i'm sure someone will come back with 'well warlocks can or well bruisers can or well blah blah can' . i've seen wizards take down triple ups one after the other in silent city. i can't do this but honestly should anyone really be able to? i can understand that balance needs to be achieved but i don't want it if it means making soloing a scout as easy as turning on autoattack. the high powered tank classes soloing to me is like playing a video game in god mode. who doesn't bore of that within 10 minutes? <div></div>

[deciever]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Graton wrote:this might come out as a boast, it's not meant to be. maybe i'm too easily please, but i don't think so. i'm not entirely happy with where the assassin class currently is. i feel in groups we still need to do more dmg and i also feel our power consumption is too much. what i don't think is that i need any more help to solo. i solo, in my opinion, perfectly fine. i can take the solo multiple mob encounters , i can kill heroic one ups that are white quite easily and i can get yellow ones if one of my high dmg attacks is up. i like the fact that to succesfully solo i have to think. i recently did the blades arena quest where you fight 10 rounds in the arena against increasing difficulty mobs. i can't remember having more fun. i made rules for myself - no more than 2 minutes rest between rounds and no evac. it was exciting, i had to hold back on certain attacks and utilize near everything to pull it off but i was able to. i realize that if i was a berserker or bruiser i probably could have done that blindfolded but y'know, it would bore the hell out of me.  i honestly hope our current stun stays the way it is because its limitations are what make it interesting. you can use it against heroic mobs, under certain circumstances and i personally find that fine. i'm sure someone will come back with 'well warlocks can or well bruisers can or well blah blah can' . i've seen wizards take down triple ups one after the other in silent city. i can't do this but honestly should anyone really be able to? i can understand that balance needs to be achieved but i don't want it if it means making soloing a scout as easy as turning on autoattack. the high powered tank classes soloing to me is like playing a video game in god mode. who doesn't bore of that within 10 minutes? <div></div><hr></blockquote>So.. You're content with our broken class because it's a challenge? Well, I like a challenge too, I like to play my class, I just think we should be better.. We're screwed up right now. There's no reason for us to be able to do so little against solo mobs, especially heroic mobs when other DPS classes can do so much more. We don't have much power at all. Again, we can solo, but we're not a good class for it as of now, especially if we suck so much at it compared to other DPS classes. And.. I think that if we are going to be not-that-good at soloing, then, yes, we should be MUCH better in groups. Most classes are the same in both solo and group situations, while we are crippled soloers compared to our power in groups, yes, we still aren't even really good at all in groups! When people want DPS, they don't say, "Let's get an assassin or two." And if they do, it's because they're ignorant. We are not the best DPS. If a group settles for assassins, they're settling for less. We have no utility, and we're not the best damage. I do EVERYTHING I possibly can to put out MAXIMUM DAMAGE, and because of the problems with my class, I get outdamaged in fights by other DPS classes who were supposed to be a lower tier, can solo like gods, and they get more utilities. I hate sounding like a broken record, but, I don't know what else to say. This is the truth. This is what needs to be addressed. Assassins are stealthy backstabbing killers. That should be our method of killing at all times, we should always be able to do it, and we should be dang good at it. We should hit hard, and be able to hit hard whenever, in every fight. It's not fair any other way. It doesn't make sense any other way. That's what we're for!! That's why people make this class, right?! That's why I made an assassin.. To do DAMAGE. DAMAGE. DAMAGE. To do nothing but DAMAGE. Pure melee DAMAGE. All the time, to be exceptional, remarkable, notable, noticable, substantial, significant and devastating damage! Melee damage. That.. Is.. What.. We're.. For... So, we shouldn't be worse at it than anyone... Right?</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by deciever69 on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:50 PM</span>

[Graton]

<div></div>i just think you're vastly exaggerating how badly we solo. i do the solo instance grifter quests and arena quests frequently and i have no problem completing them . some of the classes that supposedley solo so much better than us like priests have trouble with these, at least some in my guild do. from a soloing perspective i don't think we're broken. i can solo a white heroic up arrow. i can easily solo a blue heoric up arrow. i can't solo triple ups and i would definately need assassinate to solo a double up. to me, that's about right. any more ability than that would be broken the other way to me. as for getting outdamaged in groups i agree and i said i'm not happy with where the class is in a group. the general point in my post is in regards to solo'ing. i simply don't get the current complaint from assassin's. prerevamp, yes we had problems, post i think we're about right. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Graton on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:43 PM</span>

[sneakli]

<DIV>Quote Graton: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> "i can solo a white heroic up arrow. i can easily solo a blue heoric up arrow."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really?!???  I'm not decked out in fabled gear and master CA, but without assassinate up and the mob not seeing invis I am hard pressed to kill a solo even con with one arrow up.  Maybe I just don't have a clue, though you would think I would after all this time. </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you can send me some pointers. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For group damage: I agree the timers ought to be lowered.  I think gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min is right on the money.  I'm not really too worried about assassinate, it's a huge hit and even at 5 min it would be like it is now to me. "Hell, the tank just died.  Hope this will finish the mob off" or "Man I hope this solo ^ doesn't kill me after I use my assassinate on him"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Solo damage: I'd like to see our stun stick for full duration on ANY "solo" mob.  2 seconds is iffy at best to get in position, stealth, and then do a backstab. You use 1.5 of that on actual cast time and recast delay.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the recent additions have been good and help, but we still need a nudge to push us the rest of the way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--Scratch</DIV> <DIV>lvl55 Assassin of nek</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>Graton wrote:i just think you're vastly exaggerating how badly we solo. i do the solo instance grifter quests and arena quests frequently and i have no problem completing them . some of the classes that supposedley solo so much better than us like priests have trouble with these, at least some in my guild do. from a soloing perspective i don't think we're broken. i can solo a white heroic up arrow. i can easily solo a blue heoric up arrow. i can't solo triple ups and i would definately need assassinate to solo a double up. to me, that's about right. any more ability than that would be broken the other way to me. <font color="#ff0000">Priests are not damage classes. Priests are priests. People make priests to heal. People make priests to heal to group. Priests shouldn't have to solo. </font> as for getting outdamaged in groups i agree and i said i'm not happy with where the class is in a group. the general point in my post is in regards to solo'ing. i simply don't get the current complaint from assassin's. prerevamp, yes we had problems, post i think we're about right. <font color="#ff0000">We suck. Please stop. You love being broken. I get it, I think anyone gets it by now. You don't want us to be decent. You don't want us to be better. You don't want us to be good.</font> <p>Message Edited by Graton on <span class="date_text">11-11-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I am not exaggerating anything. I can fight mobs and win. We can solo.. But, other classes do it so much BETTER THAN US.. A swashbuckler, for example, can do almost all of their damage from up front, their AOE's have no stealth-requirement, they have better buffs than assassins, their level 50 'awesome' spell is usable every 3 minutes, and it goes hand-and-hand very well with many of their attacks, and they can kill multiple mobs or even one mob faster than assassins can. They also have the ability to tank in groups, as they have great hate-generating moves.. They don't want hate? They have great hate-reduction moves, too. They also get a group sneak. If a high level swashbuckler is playing to the best of their ability, spamming their CA's whenever they can (pretty much all the time because they have awesome recasts on everything), they can do even more damage than assassins, and they can sustain their damage. I am glad that Swashbucklers are so great. But, why are they better than assassins? They were supposed to be a lower tier of damage than Assassins. LU13 was supposed to put Assassins, Rangers, Warlocks, and Wizards at the top of the DPS pyramid, because that is pretty much all those classes can do. Assassins in particular can't do anything but damage, and we get outdamaged by pet classes, which also were supposed to be in a lower DPS tier. Honestly, you really must not be reading into what I am saying too much. I don't really like to repeat myself, but, I'll do it if I have to. There is NO logical reason for us to have such high recasts on our backstabs. That is my biggest qualm. There is no reason for us to not be better than we are, when we currently aren't very good at all, even if <b>you</b> <b><i>think</i></b> we are fine. When you're fighting these heroics, how long does it take you to kill them? What are your strategies, what sort of gear do you have, what level are your spells at, and how often do you get to use these strategies? Do you use potions? What kind of poisons do you use? How much money does it cost you? Why should we have to wait for assassinate, a move that takes 15 minutes to refresh, OUR MOST DEVASTATING MOVE, to be up to take on a double-up and still have quite a bit of trouble when other classes can do it any old time, and have it be a breeze for them? In ANY solo fight, we have no advantages while other classes do have advantages (do we have advantages much of anywhere that are even unique to us? No.) Where is balance? Where is fairness? We get no compensation. We do not shine. We do not necessarily kill faster just because we hit harder. Our current stun allows us to stun a heroic or weaker target for 2 FREAKING SECONDS. This allows us 2 FREAKING SECONDS to use 1 OF OUR ONLY METHODS OF DOING DECENT DAMAGE! ( backstab ) We don't have any power from the front of a mob. Our DOT's? Please. Our auto-attack? Are you kidding? It's hard to toe-to-toe with a heroic mob when we can't kill them faster than they can kill us. How about bow-kiting? Sure, <i>that doesn't take forever and it's not a complete waste of arrows and time.</i> We get one bow move that we can use from the front, and it gets interrupted if we try to cast it while moving, so we have to stop, and most of the time, the mob closes in before we cast it to hit for a grand total of UNDER 500 DAMAGE even if we snare it.  WE DO CRAP FOR DAMAGE FROM UP FRONT, so we should be the GODS of damage if we have to do so much just to hit a mob for decent damage in a solo fight.. It's easier and more efficient for us to try and take on non-heroics, which is fine with me, but, even then, we are still faced with almost all of our decent attacks being positional, where no other DPS class has such a requirement to do the majority of their damage.. And we can only do our best damage every once in a while.. And our best damage isn't THE BEST damage. It's not even close. It's so frusturating to solo harder mobs.. It's not worth it, it takes so long to wait for CA's just to be able to take on stuff that others can do with ease, especially when others can do it constantly. It's better exp to just fight non-heroics. </span><span>We have so much restriction. That is why I say we are crippled. We have trouble in that sense.</span> <span> We have it way harder than a lot of other DPS classes, and we get outdamaged, even though we are a pure DPS class. By that, I mean we have no real use except for damage. A lot of effort goes into playing an assassin, </span><span>I don't mind having to use my mind and think when I am playing</span><span>, it's fun, I have fun playing my class, even though it's pretty difficult compared to most classes, and unfulfilling.. Even though we aren't good damage in groups, even though we suck at soloing heroics, and all of our decent damage is positional, yet still turns out to be lesser damage compared to what other classes can do in the same period of time that it takes to stun, stealth, and backstab. But, why do we spend so much time waiting on recasts for our backstabs, waiting to do the only thing that our class is good for, to do backstabs, to hit hard, to DO DAMAGE.. Only to be outdamaged. </span><span>Why? WHY?!? WHY?!? WHAT IS THE REASON!?! WHY ARE ASSASSINS SO GIMPY, AND WHY DO YOU LOVE THAT WE ARE SO GIMPY SO MUCH!?! WHY GRATON!?! HOW COME!?! WHY ARE YOU BRAGGING ABOUT HOW MUCH ASSASSINS SUCK!? I don't get it. I want to be fixed. </span><div></div>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>sneaklily wrote:<div>Quote Graton: </div> <div> </div> <div> "i can solo a white heroic up arrow. i can easily solo a blue heoric up arrow."</div> <div> </div> <div>Really?!???  I'm not decked out in fabled gear and master CA, but without assassinate up and the mob not seeing invis I am hard pressed to kill a solo even con with one arrow up.  Maybe I just don't have a clue, though you would think I would after all this time. </div> <div>Maybe you can send me some pointers. </div> <div> </div> <div>For group damage: I agree the timers ought to be lowered.  I think gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min is right on the money.  I'm not really too worried about assassinate, it's a huge hit and even at 5 min it would be like it is now to me. "Hell, the tank just died.  Hope this will finish the mob off" or "Man I hope this solo ^ doesn't kill me after I use my assassinate on him"</div> <div> </div> <div>For Solo damage: I'd like to see our stun stick for full duration on ANY "solo" mob.  2 seconds is iffy at best to get in position, stealth, and then do a backstab. You use 1.5 of that on actual cast time and recast delay.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I think the recent additions have been good and help, but we still need a nudge to push us the rest of the way. <font color="#ff0000">A big nudge.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>--Scratch</div> <div>lvl55 Assassin of nek</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Thank you for your input. I agree. Might as well make assassinate on a lower timer though, no reason for it to be on such a big timer... It wouldn't make us overpowered if it was on a much lower timer. My guild killed Darathar today. It took 2 minutes.</span><div></div>

[Endosh]

<P>I don't mind a [Removed for Content] contest if its going to be close but when you are up against an adversary that is beyond your capabilities you might as well just hand over your teeth to the tooth fairy and say thanks for the punch in the face. </P> <P>I am refering to the ever ongoing competition between rangers and assassins for the title of DPS king. My opinion means little in who should be what and why it should be the way it is but nevertheless my friends the assassin class is taking it in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on this one.:smileyvery-happy: Any developer who stands on two legs, walks upright and breathes can figure that one out. I think its just the fact that they have to pick one class to be the whipping post and hey dudes.....guess what....its us.</P> <P>All I can do anymore is just laugh at how meager we have become as assassins. Lets be honest, we suck when compared to our predatory counterparts. The can do everything we can but the only difference is they do it better. Why is it that way I do not know but really, I guess, who cares. Maybe tomorrow they will give assassins feign death and give guardians complete heal or maybe they will give wizards an uber AE taunt.....you just never know. After all we are "in their world now". </P> <P>Don't hold your breath for a fix though and if they do "fix" us, it will just wreck something else.</P> <P>.....logging in</P>

[deciever]

Every day that I see this thread getting no attention from devs, I am let down. Has this thread even been looked into? Have assassins even been looked into? Our core problems are still not addressed. I wish that if it was being looked into, we could know. I am scared that things might never change for assassins. I'd like to at least hear, "We're looking into it." or "We have no intention of making assassins not-suck." Anything would be better than silence. I wish we had some answers. We're screwed, and all the reasons why we are screwed are right here in this thread, plain as day. Big, strong, points. Undeniable issues, and they are going unnoticed. Or, at least, that's what I think. Anyone who knows the case of the assassins feels sorry for them, I think. We are not good. Today, my Coercer friend was talking about his class being the class that's been screwed over the most by SOE. I think he made a lot of valid statements about why his class is broken, he genuinely sounds upset. He doesn't have fun with his character. He doesn't have fun when he is playing, and he doesn't even feel like playing it. I don't think this is fair. But, something funny, is, I've heard people say, "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. We need an enchanter." because, at least enchanters have use, they are good at something, they have abilities that make them somewhat desirable, in some situation.. Yet.. Assassins have NOTHING. If a group wants DPS they aren't going to be looking for an assassin if they know how crappy assassins are. Assassins are like.. Last-resort DPS. Assassins aren't even the best at the only thing they can do. They don't even come close. And that's all they can do: crappy damage, every once in a while a spike to that crappy damage, which still isn't even great, and when that's all they can do, they're even more restricted at how they can do it than other classes, and it doesn't pay off, because it's not the best damage. THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM. DOESN'T ANYONE SEE THAT? I know it's hard for SOE to make everyone happy.. But, it's not freaking impossible to make people stop being unhappy. Assassins are gimped right now, why can't we just get a hotfix? We SUCK. We're playable, but WE SUCK. WE SUCK AT EVERYTHING WE DO. OUR CLASS SUCKS. WE SUCK AT SOLOING COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES, AND WE'RE MUCH BETTER IN GROUPS, BUT, EVEN THEN, WE SUCK COMPARED TO THE CLASSES THAT CAN SOLO BETTER THAN US. WE ARE NOT USEFUL. WE ARE NOT DESIRED. <div></div>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR><BR>But, something funny, is, I've heard people say, "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. We need an enchanter." because, at least enchanters have use, they are good at something, they have abilities that make them somewhat desirable, in some situation.. Yet.. Assassins have NOTHING. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Every dps class in almost every game comes up with this argument.  If you want utility shift down 2 notches and play a bard.  They have plenty of utility and are highly desired because of key buffs.  Look back at EQLive nobody said we need rogues except when there was a long cr, our raids never cried if the monks didnt show up that day, nobody noticed if the rangers were missing, etc. However many a raid were held up due to lack of clerics, enchanters and bards.  Same thing happens in this game and other games.  On a raid or in a group certain classes will always be key like a tank, healer and on raids bards/enchanters.  For dps there are many classes that can fill this role.  Even if they fix us and up our damage quite considerably this same situation can exist because tier 1 dps or not there are still like 18 damage oriented classes to fill that role.<BR><BR>If you are a "zomg! I need phat dps" kind of person then you don't want any more utility than we have now.  Utility always comes with penalties and the more you argue for it then it will just come to hurt you more later.  An enchanter for example has those key utilities like the power regen and haste but they pay in dps much like the bard does.  So once again the less utility you have the stronger the argument for a dps boost when you arent performing as good as others.<BR>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>khalysta wrote: <blockquote> <hr> deciever69 wrote:But, something funny, is, I've heard people say, "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. We need an enchanter." because, at least enchanters have use, they are good at something, they have abilities that make them somewhat desirable, in some situation.. Yet.. Assassins have NOTHING. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Every dps class in almost every game comes up with this argument.  If you want utility shift down 2 notches and play a bard.  They have plenty of utility and are highly desired because of key buffs.  Look back at EQLive nobody said we need rogues except when there was a long cr, our raids never cried if the monks didnt show up that day, nobody noticed if the rangers were missing, etc. However many a raid were held up due to lack of clerics, enchanters and bards.  Same thing happens in this game and other games.  On a raid or in a group certain classes will always be key like a tank, healer and on raids bards/enchanters.  For dps there are many classes that can fill this role.  Even if they fix us and up our damage quite considerably this same situation can exist because tier 1 dps or not there are still like 18 damage oriented classes to fill that role. <font color="#ff0000">This may be true, but, it doesn't change the fact that we suck now. I think we should be better so we at least are desired as much as any other damage-oriented class, especially since DAMAGE is all we have. I don't want utility. I want damage. Pure damage. That's why I am an assassin. If a group wants damage, they won't come to us, because our damage SUCKS compared to other DPS classes AND we don't get any utility. The only reason I can even get into any groups is because I am in a guild, and, even then I am sort of a last-resort.</font>If you are a "zomg! I need phat dps" kind of person then you don't want any more utility than we have now.  Utility always comes with penalties and the more you argue for it then it will just come to hurt you more later.  An enchanter for example has those key utilities like the power regen and haste but they pay in dps much like the bard does.  So once again the less utility you have the stronger the argument for a dps boost when you arent performing as good as others. <font color="#ff0000"><span>I don't want any FREAKING UTILITIES. I was just using that as an argument to support the fact that we do crappy DPS when we don't even have utilities. I WANT TO DO DAMAGE. That's why I made an assassin. I think I've said that about a million times by now.</span></font> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[deciever]

What does it take to get recognition from the developers of this game? <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[deciever]

Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc. I've found that this contributes very little towards my damage in fights, as I am always trying to do other things, especially in group fights. Poison doesn't help our class the way it helps other scout classes, and neither do our weapon procs.. Or, at least.. We don't see the effects or results of these things as frequently. Our attacks are focused, they are concentrated 1 hit moves, and while, yes, they are pretty high damage in one spell compared to other classes, in the time it takes to use them.. Other scouts do more damage. Assassins get nothing to balance that out.. And, very little of my damage comes from auto-attack unless I am soloing.. And when I am soloing, auto-attack is one of the few things that I do have. Our auto-attack isn't very good compared to some scout classes... Even with our DPS% buffs.. I'd rather have Haste% buffs, because they give better chances to proc poison and weaponprocs, I think. I was parsing a fight with my swashbuckler friend, and I saw that a lot of his damage in a lot of the fights was coming from his poison procs, and I saw that he was proccing poison far more than I was.. Not to mention outdamaging me by quite a bit.. Gah. I don't even know why I bother trying to get our class fixed. It will probably never happen. We're doomed, guys.. Doomed to suck.. Forever. That makes me sad. I'm sad. <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc. I've found that this contributes very little towards my damage in fights, as I am always trying to do other things, especially in group fights. Poison doesn't help our class the way it helps other scout classes, and neither do our weapon procs.. Or, at least.. We don't see the effects or results of these things as frequently. Our attacks are focused, they are concentrated 1 hit moves, and while, yes, they are pretty high damage in one spell compared to other classes, in the time it takes to use them.. Other scouts do more damage. Assassins get nothing to balance that out.. And, very little of my damage comes from auto-attack unless I am soloing.. And when I am soloing, auto-attack is one of the few things that I do have. Our auto-attack isn't very good compared to some scout classes... Even with our DPS% buffs.. I'd rather have Haste% buffs, because they give better chances to proc poison and weaponprocs, I think. I was parsing a fight with my swashbuckler friend, and I saw that a lot of his damage in a lot of the fights was coming from his poison procs, and I saw that he was proccing poison far more than I was.. Not to mention outdamaging me by quite a bit.. Gah. I don't even know why I bother trying to get our class fixed. It will probably never happen. We're doomed, guys.. Doomed to suck.. Forever. That makes me sad. I'm sad. <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I encourage you to take a look at auto-attack damage again. Get a group that can provide some +dps buffs, turn on group haste or your own short duration Bloodlines haste, then turn on Brutal Focus. Between auto attack damage, poison procs, weapon procs, and Swipe procs you'll be dealing significant damage. I'm regularly hitting for 300 or more per attack, spiking quite a bit higher than that with some short lived dps buff stacking. I don't consider this a fix to our class, only a fix to our DPS. I am not going to have fun being a class that AFKs during raids to keep my DPS high. I don't mind spamming combat arts and juggling DPS against aggro, but the damage numbers should reflect that effort and show our class to be a Tier 1 DPS class as intended.</span><div></div>

[Jakr]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc.<hr></blockquote> can i buy some pot from you?</span><div></div>

[scivias]

<span><blockquote><hr>Graton wrote:<div></div>i just think you're vastly exaggerating how badly we solo. i do the solo instance grifter quests and arena quests frequently and i have no problem completing them . some of the classes that supposedley solo so much better than us like priests have trouble with these, at least some in my guild do.<hr></blockquote> My Inq had never any problem doing any of the tear grifters quests, paying litte or less attention and getting bored cause it took so long. My assassin, on the other hand, had to run several of them, especially the froglok one, or any with mobs healing themselves. No chance of doing those.</span><div></div>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc. I've found that this contributes very little towards my damage in fights, as I am always trying to do other things, especially in group fights. Poison doesn't help our class the way it helps other scout classes, and neither do our weapon procs.. Or, at least.. We don't see the effects or results of these things as frequently. Our attacks are focused, they are concentrated 1 hit moves, and while, yes, they are pretty high damage in one spell compared to other classes, in the time it takes to use them.. Other scouts do more damage. Assassins get nothing to balance that out.. And, very little of my damage comes from auto-attack unless I am soloing.. And when I am soloing, auto-attack is one of the few things that I do have. Our auto-attack isn't very good compared to some scout classes... Even with our DPS% buffs.. I'd rather have Haste% buffs, because they give better chances to proc poison and weaponprocs, I think. I was parsing a fight with my swashbuckler friend, and I saw that a lot of his damage in a lot of the fights was coming from his poison procs, and I saw that he was proccing poison far more than I was.. Not to mention outdamaging me by quite a bit.. Gah. I don't even know why I bother trying to get our class fixed. It will probably never happen. We're doomed, guys.. Doomed to suck.. Forever. That makes me sad. I'm sad. <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I encourage you to take a look at auto-attack damage again. Get a group that can provide some +dps buffs, turn on group haste or your own short duration Bloodlines haste, then turn on Brutal Focus. Between auto attack damage, poison procs, weapon procs, and Swipe procs you'll be dealing significant damage. I'm regularly hitting for 300 or more per attack, spiking quite a bit higher than that with some short lived dps buff stacking. I don't consider this a fix to our class, only a fix to our DPS. I am not going to have fun being a class that AFKs during raids to keep my DPS high. I don't mind spamming combat arts and juggling DPS against aggro, but the damage numbers should reflect that effort and show our class to be a Tier 1 DPS class as intended. <font color="#ff0000">I couldn't have said it better myself. I feel the same way. I will never resort to auto-attack to do my damage unless there is nothing else I can do. I shouldn't have to.</font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Okay. I swear..<b> People are not reading what I am saying.</b> I am so glad that we have poisons, weapon procs, and our offensive stance procs.. But, what I was saying is these things do not benefit US as much as they do OTHER scouts. I am glad that we have at least something to buffer our auto-attack.. But, our auto-attack isn't the best, either. I don't want to be an auto-attack class. I would rather have all or most of my damage come from my backstabs, and have auto-attack going in between to fill the gaps.. Since our damage isn't up to par with other DPS classes, and it certainly doesn't surpass anyone.. I was trying to figure out why. Our poison, weapon procs, and offensive stance procs go off far less than other scouts do, because we land fewer hits in a fight. Fewer hits = fewer chances to proc, if I am not mistaken. We have no haste, and most of our damage comes from our backstabs. We hit less times in fights than swashbucklers.. So, swashbucklers will be proccing more than us.. A lot more. Again, I don't want swashbucklers to be nerfed, I just use them as an example because I am constantly grouping with one, constantly being outdamaged and outclassed by one, and I have a fair idea of what they do because I parse fights with EQ2companion.. That shows what % of damage in a fight comes from what, how many hits are landed, etc.. It's actually very informative and useful... But, that's beside the point. I was actually trying to make a point, but, apparently that's not even worth doing since no one is reading what I am saying anyways. I am making points. Valid points. I want my class to be good. I am trying to shine light on things that are keeping us in a lower place than we should be on the DPS pyramid. I wouldn't post something here if I thought it were insignificant or untrue. Think about what you folks are saying. <b>Read what I am saying. </b>I do my best to keep a level-head. I read into everything before I make a statement. I am trying to be the voice of reason.<b> </b></span><div></div>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jakron wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc.<hr></blockquote> can i buy some pot from you?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><span>:smileyindifferent: Please read everything again, completely.</span></span><div></div>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jakron wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR>Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>can i buy some pot from you?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN>:smileyindifferent: Please read everything again, completely.</SPAN><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Go see your local alchemist and get Adeste's Disruption.  It's 451dd 74 dot damage and with the dual wield proc changes you should proc again before it ticks much.  Either way you look at it thats some solid damage just from poisons.  </DIV>

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:<span>I encourage you to take a look at auto-attack damage again. Get a group that can provide some +dps buffs, turn on group haste or your own short duration Bloodlines haste, then turn on Brutal Focus. Between auto attack damage, poison procs, weapon procs, and Swipe procs you'll be dealing significant damage. I'm regularly hitting for 300 or more per attack, spiking quite a bit higher than that with some short lived dps buff stacking. I don't consider this a fix to our class, only a fix to our DPS. I am not going to have fun being a class that AFKs during raids to keep my DPS high. I don't mind spamming combat arts and juggling DPS against aggro, but the damage numbers should reflect that effort and show our class to be a Tier 1 DPS class as intended. <font color="#ff0000">I couldn't have said it better myself. I feel the same way. I will never resort to auto-attack to do my damage unless there is nothing else I can do. I shouldn't have to.</font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Okay. I swear..<b> People are not reading what I am saying.</b> I am so glad that we have poisons, weapon procs, and our offensive stance procs.. But, what I was saying is these things do not benefit US as much as they do OTHER scouts. I am glad that we have at least something to buffer our auto-attack.. But, our auto-attack isn't the best, either. I don't want to be an auto-attack class. I would rather have all or most of my damage come from my backstabs, and have auto-attack going in between to fill the gaps.. Since our damage isn't up to par with other DPS classes, and it certainly doesn't surpass anyone.. I was trying to figure out why. Our poison, weapon procs, and offensive stance procs go off far less than other scouts do, because we land fewer hits in a fight. Fewer hits = fewer chances to proc, if I am not mistaken. We have no haste, and most of our damage comes from our backstabs. We hit less times in fights than swashbucklers.. So, swashbucklers will be proccing more than us.. A lot more. Again, I don't want swashbucklers to be nerfed, I just use them as an example because I am constantly grouping with one, constantly being outdamaged and outclassed by one, and I have a fair idea of what they do because I parse fights with EQ2companion.. That shows what % of damage in a fight comes from what, how many hits are landed, etc.. It's actually very informative and useful... But, that's beside the point. I was actually trying to make a point, but, apparently that's not even worth doing since no one is reading what I am saying anyways. I am making points. Valid points. I want my class to be good. I am trying to shine light on things that are keeping us in a lower place than we should be on the DPS pyramid. I wouldn't post something here if I thought it were insignificant or untrue. Think about what you folks are saying. <b>Read what I am saying. </b>I do my best to keep a level-head. I read into everything before I make a statement. I am trying to be the voice of reason.<b> </b></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>In a raid context their self-haste is nullified by the group haste buffs that are overriding it. Now classes with various multiple-attack combat arts will always have a leg up on us with respect to proc damage, we have to get over that -- our only option to make up for this is in multi-mob encounters with our, now faster casting, AE arts. I'm not sure we have any other option, and doubt that we would be seeing any multiple-attack single-target combat arts to level the playing field. The one thing that would even things between our class and those that have multiple fast attacking skills (Swashies have a couple of multi-hit combat arts, Rangers and Swash have fast attacking ranged attacks, unsure who else has such a thing) is for our DoT damage to be both increased and made to tick faster (1.5s or 2s per tick, increase damage per tick). These powers saw a large nerf with the Combat Update which has yet to be rectified, this is one place where Assassins can look forward to improvement in a future update.</span><div></div>

[Jakr]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Jakron wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc.<hr></blockquote> can i buy some pot from you?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><span>:smileyindifferent: Please read everything again, completely.</span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>i did read it all. again and completely and i stand by it, dont mock me.</span><div></div>

[Jakr]

<div></div>due to our proc buff working now. and the increased proc rates of everything all around.  our dps on auto attack increased significantly. hell i was  double. tripple  even quad procing.  procing  poison every other swing ,  even pulling  well into the 500 -700 range on auto attack in a  poets group. (lock 1k-1300), and pulling i think my highest at  a  1500+ dps  during that night  without assassinate. swipe now has a tendancy to  act like a bow if it procs it triggers more  poison and weapon procs ontop of the initial hits.  i strongly suggest you do more testing,parsing etc on it. cause as far as its shown to me,  our auto attack damage is  uber due to all the procs. and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's  ( about 10-20g a vile depending on your server)  500 damage  every  1/3 swings is alot of damage. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>11-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span>

[deciever]

What kind of buffs did you have? What kind of gear do you have? Spell upgrades? Was anyone outdamaging you? Have you ever grouped with another class of the same or greater caliber? <div></div>

[Aienaa]

<HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's</FONT>  (<STRONG><U><FONT color=#ff0000 size=5> about 10-20g a vile depending on your server</FONT></U></STRONG>)  <FONT color=#ffff00>500 damage  every  1/3 swings is alot of damage.</FONT><BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>When was the last time you saw a Priest class spend 10-20g to heal someone?   <FONT color=#33ccff>A:  NEVER</FONT></P> <P>When was the last time you saw a Fighter class spend 10-20g to taunt a mob?   <FONT color=#33ccff>A:  NEVER</FONT></P> <P>When was the last time you saw a Mage class spend 10-20g to nuke a mob?  <FONT color=#33ccff> A:  NEVER</FONT></P> <P>When was the last time you saw a Scout class spend 10-20g to do DPS?   <FONT color=#ff0000>A:  EVERY DAY</FONT></P> <P>Scouts are the only class that have to pay for thier DPS...  No other class in the game even comes close to matching the money sink that scouts have, and this is just to perform the core role of the scout...</P> <P>Hmmm.. </P> <P>What do you think Enchanters would say if every 10th tick of thier mana regen cost them 1sp....</P> <P>Or fighter classes paying 1sp for every 5th CA they use...</P> <P>How about if Pet classes had to pay 5gp every time the summoned a pet, and the pets only last for 30 mins max (not counting if they died and they would have to resummon which would cost an additional 5gp)</P> <P>or if Priest classes had to pay 1sp each time thier reactives, wards or heal over times ticked?</P> <P>Or if Wizards and warlocks had to pay 1sp avery 5th time they cast a damage spell</P> <P>How about if scouts had to pay 2.5gp for each poison they apply??  Opps, forgot, they already do</P> <P>Ok, how about 2.5sp each time they fire thier bows??  Opps, forgot they do that also..</P> <P> </P> <P>Hmm... Looks like scouts are the only ones that have to pay in order to do thier core role...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 61 Assassin</P> <P> </P>

[Jakr]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>every other class would give their left nut to use poisons, if you dont belive me.  think back to when torrent of the ages was bugged.  you do relize people bought that crap out like  crazy  for almost 4- 5x what its worth now. ive seen it sell for 20-25g a vial and not once. never did a single person ever. EVER complain of it beein expensive.  where as you can get adeste's for like 2-5 g if you have an alch friend or grind it yourself or  5-6g for  common  t6 poisons that do decent damage on their own and tbh idk how much  coin any of yall make, but realy  eq2's economy is meaningless,. you can go mine for an hour and make 2p+ or hell  while grinding to 60  you made tons of cash to im sure.  it realy doesnt bother me to pay for poisons or arrows. maybe you should roll a  tank  the 1 class who dies the most. or pay their daily raid repair bills. or a guard for instance where they take massive shield damage on one of their abilities. and im getting realy sick of  goin on test and beta  and writing up tons of petitions,feedbacks,bug reports, talking to devs and cs day in and day out  to get [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fixed,  then waiting  to have it fixed , have it fixed,  then have some of you whine your [Removed for Content] off once somthing finnaly gets fixed. and ontop of that point fingers at me or the people who are only repeating what others have said. i mention that  khy said buying adeste's would be a good idea and its my fault?  hrmmm funny how that works. idk why there is teh few of you who hate on your dps so much witha  passion. after the patch i find my dps to  have been uped by a  ton.    hell almost all the assassins i talk to daily in the assassin channel  think  our dps is insane now, ask any of them. <p> all i know is  even while solo. solo buffed no pots just adept 3 whirling and  some  even common poisons  ,i can auto attack for a ton of damage.  why you cant do the same idk. maybe your just unlucky , and maybe  auto attacking for 300 while procing  like crazy and getting swipes as high as  700 in  a  caped str group sucks.  yes there are things that could make us better. there always will be problems it will NEVER end.  get used to it welcome to a mmo.  once soe fixes things your just gunna get greedy and wanna get more buffs. ie omg  assassinate needs to be a 30 second recast that will fix our dps. omg  deathly blade needs to be 5 sec recast.  /sigh <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> </p> <p>o and  dec69,  whats your actual assassins name  btw. just curious , you never seem to say it and ive probably never seen either of you in the assassin channel talking to any of us there. <span class="time_text"></span></p> <p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>11-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:18 PM</span>

[deciever]

My assassins name is Raio. I play on the Befallen server. I've never been in that channel. I am not greedy. I know there are classes that do more damage than assassins consistently, because I see it every single day. I am not playing my class wrong. I play my class the best that I can. Maybe my toon isn't uber, but that has little to nothing to do with my class being not-as-good as other classes at the only thing it can do. <div></div>

[Jakr]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:My assassins name is Raio. I play on the Befallen server. I've never been in that channel. I am not greedy. I know there are classes that do more damage than assassins consistently, because I see it every single day. I am not playing my class wrong. I play my class the best that I can. Maybe my toon isn't uber, but that has little to nothing to do with my class being not-as-good as other classes at the only thing it can do. <div></div><hr></blockquote>everyone should realy join the channel, we talk about this stuff all day and all night. some classes are supposed to out dps us  (wizards,warlocks) never said you played your class wrong. uber has nothing to do it., if your comparing your class to your guildies or friends your probably  equaly  geared so  having uber stuff wont change the fact if your decked out the classes in your guild will most likeley be to. and what classes are giving you the most problems ie,  out dps'n you consistently . like i said above if its locks or wizards they are supposed to.  one thing no one EVER takes into is compared to mages,  we can do  alot of dps with 0 power costs. they cant.  and compared to every other class.  every  single class  assassins have the best  option for keeping agro off ourselves. we can stack an agro transfer, a  agro   gain debuff,  and we have  2 massive agro debuffs.  i know other classes wish they had  agro debuffs.  hell thats the only thing the mages i know want.   you relize how much more they die in  a long raid night then  a  pred/ or scout class. they can do little dps and get agro.  we on the other hand can  do the same dps (maybe not in the same time frame)  for less power cost. and   almost no threat.  that my friend is one of our huge advantages  we take for granted.</span><div></div>

[Aienaa]

<HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>every other class would give their left nut to use poisons, if you dont belive me.  think back to when torrent of the ages was bugged.  you do relize people bought that crap out like  crazy  for almost 4- 5x what its worth now. ive seen it sell for 20-25g a vial and not once. never did a single person ever. EVER complain of it beein expensive.  where as you can get adeste's for like 2-5 g if you have an alch friend or grind it yourself or  5-6g for  common  t6 poisons that do decent damage on their own</FONT> <BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah they would give thier left nut to be able to use it, but that still does not change the fact that scouts (Rangers, Assassin, Swash, Brigand) are the ONLY classes that have to pay for thier DPS... No other class in the game has anywhere near the money sink that we have...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>or hell  while grinding to 60  you made tons of cash to im sure. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm, maybe you have missed my sig at the bottom, but I have been 60 for quite some time....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>maybe you should roll a  tank  the 1 class who dies the most. or pay their daily raid repair bills. or a guard for instance where they take massive shield damage on one of their abilities</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm and who do you think is the first to go down after the tank??  Yeah, I pay just as much in repair bills as the tank, if not more because the tank generally has the best buffs, the best resists and it's the people outside the MT group that get killed more often than the tank...   But then again, I'm sure you already know this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>and ontop of that point fingers at me or the people who are only repeating what others have said. i mention that  khy said buying adeste's would be a good idea and its my fault?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For starters, my post was not aimed at you, it was a general statement as to why we, the classes that use poisons, are the only ones in the game forced into a money sink to do the only job we have in the game, which is DPS....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did you even read what I said about Khalysta to begin with??  It's really easy for someone that stole thier guild bank to tell others to go out and spend money, when she has no money problems what so ever... She is the richest player on my server, thanks to her not passing on the guild bank when she decided to quit playing....  Don't believe me?  Ask any ex-Trinity members... Go on the Kithicor server forums and look it up... She basicly screwed her guild by not turning over thier guild bank when she quit playing.. So yeah, I have problems with her comming here and telling people they are either not playing thier characters right, telling them to spend more money, or saying everything is great with our class when she doesn't even play her Assassin any more... I'm sorry, I have absolutly no respect what so ever for Khalysta, especially when she comes in here talking about stuff she has no experience at all with (level 51 atm)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>all i know is  even while solo. solo buffed no pots just adept 3 whirling and  some  even common poisons  ,i can auto attack for a ton of damage.  why you cant do the same idk. maybe your just unlucky , and maybe  auto attacking for 300 while procing  like crazy and getting swipes as high as  700 in  a  caped str group sucks.  yes there are things that could make us better. there always will be problems it will NEVER end.  get used to it welcome to a mmo.  once soe fixes things your just gunna get greedy and wanna get more buffs. ie omg  assassinate needs to be a 30 second recast that will fix our dps. omg  deathly blade needs to be 5 sec recast.  /sigh</FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said I had problems soloing, in fact the exact opposite is true...  I easily solo stuff in PoF, LT and SC, in fact I soloed myself through the majority of 59 to get to 60...   I play at odd times so groups are not always easy to get, so I spend alot of time soloing....  Yeah, they could make it a bit easier, but it's far from impossible....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look at the stuff I have talked about being wrong...  I'm not asking for Assassinate to be 30 sec recast or anything silly like that... The stuff I have commented on was stuff like Stealth breaking without taking any damage...  AOE cast times being huge (which was fixed)....  Never have I asked for refresh times to be reduced or damage to be increased, I was more interested in getting stuff that is broken fixed, because you'll never know what you can do if some base skills are broken....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As is, I can generally do between 700-1100 DPS in groups, some times more or less depending on circumstances.... I'm not crying that my class is totally busted....  All I want right now is for stuff that is obviously broken to be fixed...  IE Concealment not placing you into stealth,  Stealth breaking without taking damage... Maybe changing Cripple to flanking rather than directly behind (hate getting the "you must be behind" message when I am behind the mob)...  I don't know, maybe asking to have stuff that is broken is too much to ask for, but I don't feel that it's unreasonable to ask to get things that are broken, fixed.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV>

[Aienaa]

<HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>we can stack an agro transfer</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can't stack agro transfer....  Last time I tried this a few days ago, only 1 Assassin could cast thier agro transfer on the tank, if the other tried, it would drop the first one and replace it with thiers...   We did however try chaining transfer...  IE the other Assassin used thier agro transfer on me and I used mine on the tank....  Seemed to work ok, but have only done it the 1 time....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another option to this is calling a pet (either the rat or the mushroom) and casting your hate transfer on the pet....  I tried this once at a raid, but due to other circumstances, I could not tell you how well it worked....  I'll have to try it again sometime....   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>everyone should realy join the channel, we talk about this stuff all day and all night.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there somewhere that we can find the name of this chat room in order to join?  Or is it one of the premade ones you can select through chat window option (never looked, so don't know if it's there)....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV><p>Message Edited by Aienaa on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span>

[judged_one]

<blockquote><hr>Jakron wrote:<div></div>due to our proc buff working now. and the increased proc rates of everything all around.  our dps on auto attack increased significantly. hell i was  double. tripple  even quad procing.  procing  poison every other swing ,  even pulling  well into the 500 -700 range on auto attack in a  poets group. (lock 1k-1300), and pulling i think my highest at  a  1500+ dps  during that night  without assassinate. swipe now has a tendancy to  act like a bow if it procs it triggers more  poison and weapon procs ontop of the initial hits.  i strongly suggest you do more testing,parsing etc on it. cause as far as its shown to me,  our auto attack damage is  uber due to all the procs. and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's  ( about 10-20g a vile depending on your server)  500 damage  every  1/3 swings is alot of damage. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>11-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Hmmmmm 500-700 on auto?Consider you do 200 dmg auto average(T6 Fable) + 300 dmg on swipe proc + 300 dmg on legendary poison, you pretty much have to proc every second to do 800 DPS. The most I seen is 350 on auto, and thats 2 t6 fable, legendary poison, Group Haste 40% + Group Str 380ish + Warlock dmg prc

[Tspesh]

Just to add my 2 cp I have a hard time finding groups and therefore I solo almost all the time. It really agravates me when I see us being made into a group only class with veryu little solo ability. I can on occasion solo a blue 1 arrow up and no this is not a herioc mob they are solo mobs even if they have 1 arrow up. I cannot solo a even 1 arrow up unless the gods are helping me that day (never happens). This is my biggest frustration and I cannot sit around all day waiting for assassinate to refresh just so I can kill a quest mob Bull Croc in the croc caves. I also play a 51 Sk that was laughing at how easy it was to kill the same mobs that slaughetr my assassin at 50. Yes 1 Lvl difference but give me a break. If I am a group only char then I have to be able to get groups which isnt happening at this time. I am not sure if anyone else has noticed but on my server the population seems to be shring again now that the newness of the expansion has worn off and I am not sure if this is the reason or if its just assassin suck at DPS and everypne knows it. I have also found that others dont seem to understand my frustration at being so weak. When I tried to explain it to my guild I actually got a statement from a wizzie that if i can solo a yellow no arrows that he had no sympathy for me. He has no idea how hard that can be if the stun fails. I must be able to solo or find groups that is the botom line and at this point neither is happening very often.

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>we can stack an agro transfer</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can't stack agro transfer....  Last time I tried this a few days ago, only 1 Assassin could cast thier agro transfer on the tank, if the other tried, it would drop the first one and replace it with thiers...   We did however try chaining transfer...  IE the other Assassin used thier agro transfer on me and I used mine on the tank....  Seemed to work ok, but have only done it the 1 time....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another option to this is calling a pet (either the rat or the mushroom) and casting your hate transfer on the pet....  I tried this once at a raid, but due to other circumstances, I could not tell you how well it worked....  I'll have to try it again sometime....   <BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You can always use reconnoiter when there are two assassins.  Reconnoiter is like the ranger versions where it just decreases the amount of hate you gain but doesn't transfer.  An adept 3 of that would be super cheap to get too with coral prices rather low now.   It's probably easier for the second one just to use that rather than trying odd combinations that might not work as well.<BR>

[dea]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><div><hr><font color="#666666"><span>we can stack an agro transfer</span></font></div><div>We can't stack agro transfer....  Last time I tried this a few days ago, only 1 Assassin could cast thier agro transfer on the tank, if the other tried, it would drop the first one and replace it with thiers...   We did however try chaining transfer...  IE the other Assassin used thier agro transfer on me and I used mine on the tank....  Seemed to work ok, but have only done it the 1 time....</div><div> </div><div>Another option to this is calling a pet (either the rat or the mushroom) and casting your hate transfer on the pet....  I tried this once at a raid, but due to other circumstances, I could not tell you how well it worked....  I'll have to try it again sometime.... <hr></div></blockquote><div>Our Reconnaisance and Friendly Shadows combat art aggro reduction/transfer lines are [<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=8809#M8809">stackable</a>], that is what is probably being referred to here. Yes, the Friendly Shadows effect can be chained, that has been brought up here at least once as well. By far the better option is to just buff your pet rat when there is not a tank or aggro sink available. I'm told the best way to out DPS a ranger is to "buff" him with Friendly Shadows!</div><blockquote><div><hr><font color="#666666"><span>everyone should realy join the channel, we talk about this stuff all day and all night.</span></font> </div><div>Is there somewhere that we can find the name of this chat room in order to join?  Or is it one of the premade ones you can select through chat window option (never looked, so don't know if it's there)....</div><hr></blockquote>The post regarding the Game-Wide Assassin Channel can be found [<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=6473&jump=true">here</a>]. I have asked for it to be stickied, but it hasn't happened yet.</span><blockquote><hr><span>judged_one wrote:</span>Consider you do 200 dmg auto average(T6 Fable) + 300 dmg on swipe proc + 300 dmg on legendary poison, you pretty much have to proc every second to do 800 DPS. The most I seen is 350 on auto, and thats 2 t6 fable, legendary poison, Group Haste 40% + Group Str 380ish + Warlock dmg prc<hr></blockquote>I'm doing an average of 250 damage on auto-attack with my pair of cobalt leafblades. Add in the now dependable poison procs for 400, Exposing Mark for 100, and Swipe for 350. You can see how it adds up nicely i think. With the right buffs, and debuffs, I've seen constant auto-attack damage in excess of 350, with Brutal Focus even more than that. Keep in mind that Exposing Mark gets a chance to proc for every attack that anyone makes on your debuffed target -- all of this proc damage is credited to you and this also adds up nicely.<div></div><p>Message Edited by deaks on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:<blockquote><hr>Jakron wrote:<div></div>due to our proc buff working now. and the increased proc rates of everything all around.  our dps on auto attack increased significantly. hell i was  double. tripple  even quad procing.  procing  poison every other swing ,  even pulling  well into the 500 -700 range on auto attack in a  poets group. (lock 1k-1300), and pulling i think my highest at  a  1500+ dps  during that night  without assassinate. swipe now has a tendancy to  act like a bow if it procs it triggers more  poison and weapon procs ontop of the initial hits.  i strongly suggest you do more testing,parsing etc on it. cause as far as its shown to me,  our auto attack damage is  uber due to all the procs. and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's  ( about 10-20g a vile depending on your server)  500 damage  every  1/3 swings is alot of damage. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>11-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Hmmmmm 500-700 on auto?Consider you do 200 dmg auto average(T6 Fable) + 300 dmg on swipe proc + 300 dmg on legendary poison, you pretty much have to proc every second to do 800 DPS. The most I seen is 350 on auto, and thats 2 t6 fable, legendary poison, Group Haste 40% + Group Str 380ish + Warlock dmg prc<hr></blockquote>Jakron i've no idea how u can do 500-700 autoattack. ATM level 59 (yup 3 leveles in 3 days in the weekend). ONLY autoattack with dirge and coercer in group get me 300 dps roughly, with honed reflex and BF i can to 450-500 dps without any CA just auto attack + poison + swipe + 2 leafblade proc. 500-700 autoattack is just way out of math calculation, unless u are wielding the 2 dmg rating 48 dual wield weapon, then probably that will make different story.ATM with CA im doing near 500 DPS up and down (still got 4 CA waiting on adept 3 being made, which is Contrivated Weapon, Spitting Asp, Finishing Blow, Crippling Strike. Donno if those spells can put me 200 more dps (finishing blow is overkill anyways). but i doubt i can get up to 1k dps UNLESS i use assassinate + deathblade + Gorestrike + garrote all in 1 concealment.

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote: <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>we can stack an agro transfer</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can't stack agro transfer....  Last time I tried this a few days ago, only 1 Assassin could cast thier agro transfer on the tank, if the other tried, it would drop the first one and replace it with thiers...   We did however try chaining transfer...  IE the other Assassin used thier agro transfer on me and I used mine on the tank....  Seemed to work ok, but have only done it the 1 time....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another option to this is calling a pet (either the rat or the mushroom) and casting your hate transfer on the pet....  I tried this once at a raid, but due to other circumstances, I could not tell you how well it worked....  I'll have to try it again sometime....   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>everyone should realy join the channel, we talk about this stuff all day and all night.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there somewhere that we can find the name of this chat room in order to join?  Or is it one of the premade ones you can select through chat window option (never looked, so don't know if it's there)....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV><p>Message Edited by Aienaa on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span><hr></blockquote>do/join guk.assassin

[Jakr]

<span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:<blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:<blockquote><hr>Jakron wrote:<div></div>due to our proc buff working now. and the increased proc rates of everything all around.  our dps on auto attack increased significantly. hell i was  double. tripple  even quad procing.  procing  poison every other swing ,  even pulling  well into the 500 -700 range on auto attack in a  poets group. (lock 1k-1300), and pulling i think my highest at  a  1500+ dps  during that night  without assassinate. swipe now has a tendancy to  act like a bow if it procs it triggers more  poison and weapon procs ontop of the initial hits.  i strongly suggest you do more testing,parsing etc on it. cause as far as its shown to me,  our auto attack damage is  uber due to all the procs. and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's  ( about 10-20g a vile depending on your server)  500 damage  every  1/3 swings is alot of damage. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class="date_text">11-13-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:44 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Hmmmmm 500-700 on auto?Consider you do 200 dmg auto average(T6 Fable) + 300 dmg on swipe proc + 300 dmg on legendary poison, you pretty much have to proc every second to do 800 DPS. The most I seen is 350 on auto, and thats 2 t6 fable, legendary poison, Group Haste 40% + Group Str 380ish + Warlock dmg prc<hr></blockquote>Jakron i've no idea how u can do 500-700 autoattack. ATM level 59 (yup 3 leveles in 3 days in the weekend). ONLY autoattack with dirge and coercer in group get me 300 dps roughly, with honed reflex and BF i can to 450-500 dps without any CA just auto attack + poison + swipe + 2 leafblade proc. 500-700 autoattack is just way out of math calculation, unless u are wielding the 2 dmg rating 48 dual wield weapon, then probably that will make different story.ATM with CA im doing near 500 DPS up and down (still got 4 CA waiting on adept 3 being made, which is Contrivated Weapon, Spitting Asp, Finishing Blow, Crippling Strike. Donno if those spells can put me 200 more dps (finishing blow is overkill anyways). but i doubt i can get up to 1k dps UNLESS i use assassinate + deathblade + Gorestrike + garrote all in 1 concealment.<hr></blockquote>500 dps on auto attack is  quite simple with adeste's  adept 3 buffs  and weapons with procs.   now adays if swipe procs it acts like a bow and tripple procs weapons and poisons.  and poisons proc every 1/3 swings atleast. if you get a lucky run you get 200 swing, 600 swipe,400 poison, 300 weapon proc. on one swing. its not hard not to mention i was ina  group ,  str caped. and as everyone should know  dps is not me by myself .  like i said i was grouped.  so i made 700 on auto attack while  the rest of my group was spamming like usual.  dont freak out and think i ment i ran up to a lvl 62^^^ and auto attacked him solo for 700 dps auto attack lol</span><div></div>

[Jakr]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote:<hr><font color="#ffff00">every other class would give their left nut to use poisons, if you dont belive me.  think back to when torrent of the ages was bugged.  you do relize people bought that crap out like  crazy  for almost 4- 5x what its worth now. ive seen it sell for 20-25g a vial and not once. never did a single person ever. EVER complain of it beein expensive.  where as you can get adeste's for like 2-5 g if you have an alch friend or grind it yourself or  5-6g for  common  t6 poisons that do decent damage on their own</font><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>Yeah they would give thier left nut to be able to use it, but that still does not change the fact that scouts (Rangers, Assassin, Swash, Brigand) are the ONLY classes that have to pay for thier DPS... No other class in the game has anywhere near the money sink that we have...</div><div> <hr><font color="#ff0000">you still dont get it,  you will always complain  get over it,   if some other clas had poisons  youd complain that  you didnt have em , and now that you do you whine that its to expensive.  well if its to expensive ,  dont buy them? </font></div><div><hr></div><div><font color="#ffff00">or hell  while grinding to 60  you made tons of cash to im sure. </font></div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>Hmm, maybe you have missed my sig at the bottom, but I have been 60 for quite some time....</div><div> <hr><font color="#ff0000">k so have i  cg.</font></div><div><hr></div><div><font color="#ffff00">maybe you should roll a  tank  the 1 class who dies the most. or pay their daily raid repair bills. or a guard for instance where they take massive shield damage on one of their abilities</font></div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>Hmm and who do you think is the first to go down after the tank??  Yeah, I pay just as much in repair bills as the tank, if not more because the tank generally has the best buffs, the best resists and it's the people outside the MT group that get killed more often than the tank...   But then again, I'm sure you already know this...</div><div> </div><div>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff0000">lol you shouldnt be the first one to go down after the tank. we have  agro debuffs. use them. usualy in a  raid i walk alway with the least armor bills cause i can unequip it all before i die if somthing goes wrong.   in the end of a bad night if the tank had  50% id still have 90%. only reason  people outside the mt group die is some one [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up. and im sure you already know this...</font></span><div></div>

[Demonskill]

whiling blade adept 3 = 600 dmg?

[Jakr]

<div></div><div></div><hr>   I'm not crying that my class is totally busted....  All I want right now is for stuff that is obviously broken to be fixed...  IE Concealment not placing you into stealth,  Stealth breaking without taking damage... Maybe changing Cripple to flanking rather than directly behind (hate getting the "you must be behind" message when I am behind the mob)...  I don't know, maybe asking to have stuff that is broken is too much to ask for, but I don't feel that it's unreasonable to ask to get things that are broken, fixed.....<div> </div><div> </div><div>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor<hr>sense when doesnt concealment not place you into stealth lol. click concealment   hit a mob, bam stealth.stealth breaking without damage,  stealth has always broken on ae even if you resist or dodge the ae.its not a bug its intended. so its not broken just an annoyance, its also kinda not a class problem this goes for any class that has invis, buys invis totems, or groups with a group inviser.cripple works fine.  yes its behind the mob. if your getting that message  and the mob is facing the other way im sure lag on the server or your comp had to contribute cause i have never encounter this unless it was a duel.</div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:07 PM</span>

[Jakr]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:whiling blade adept 3 = 600 dmg?<hr></blockquote>bout low 500's at 280-285 str. so yeah pretty much i dont remember what the ability read at 420 str. (caped)  but im pretty sure its 600+  cause i have seen it proc that high</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:05 PM</span>

[Jakr]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><div><hr><font color="#666666"><span>we can stack an agro transfer</span></font></div><div>We can't stack agro transfer....  Last time I tried this a few days ago, only 1 Assassin could cast thier agro transfer on the tank, if the other tried, it would drop the first one and replace it with thiers...   We did however try chaining transfer...  IE the other Assassin used thier agro transfer on me and I used mine on the tank....  Seemed to work ok, but have only done it the 1 time....</div><div> </div><div>Another option to this is calling a pet (either the rat or the mushroom) and casting your hate transfer on the pet....  I tried this once at a raid, but due to other circumstances, I could not tell you how well it worked....  I'll have to try it again sometime.... <hr></div></blockquote><div>Our Reconnaisance and Friendly Shadows combat art aggro reduction/transfer lines are [<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=8809#M8809">stackable</a>], that is what is probably being referred to here. Yes, the Friendly Shadows effect can be chained, that has been brought up here at least once as well. By far the better option is to just buff your pet rat when there is not a tank or aggro sink available.I'm told the best way to out DPS a ranger is to "buff" him with Friendly Shadows!</div><blockquote><div><font color="#666666"><span></span></font> <hr>this is indeed what i ment. and yes  your best option will always be to place your agro transfer on your rat pet. or mushroom   and tell the pet to stay way back in the zone.</div></blockquote></span></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Aienaa]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You seem to have smart [Removed for Content] answers for everything...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>sense when doesnt concealment not place you into stealth lol. click concealment</FONT>   <FONT color=#ff0000>hit a mob,</FONT> <FONT color=#ffff00>bam stealth.<BR></FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's see.. concealment only lasts for what 5 second?  Ok, hit concealment, now you have to hit some non-stealth attack to put you into stealth so you can use your concealment....  You just wasted a portion of your concealment putting yourself into stealth.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or, from what I have read, is that if you stand there long enough, you will eventually go into stealth mode (depending on when you actually land a Auto Attack)....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you ask me, Concealment should automatically place you in stealth, so you can imidiatly use your stealth attacks, not have to use some other attack to place you in stealth or have to wait for a auto-attack hit to land.....   This is important knowing the changes they made to hit ratio vs level of the mob  ( IE the higher level the mob is above you, the more ofen you will miss with your attacks)....  This has been discussed in our forums here....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>stealth breaking without damage,  stealth has always broken on ae even if you resist or dodge the ae.its not a bug its intended. so its not broken just an annoyance, its also kinda not a class problem this goes for any class that has invis, buys invis totems, or groups with a group inviser.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for stealth breaking, I have never had this problem before the combat reballance hit... (HINT: Sheath Weapon)...  What happens is that you hit MoK or Improved Surviel to put you into stealth, and at the exact moment you enter stealth, you pop right back out....   Thiat is without being hit or dodging an AoE....  This has been stated before right here in our forums...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>cripple works fine.  yes its behind the mob. if your getting that message  and the mob is facing the other way im sure lag on the server or your comp had to contribute cause i have never encounter this unless it was a duel.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Cripple...   The problem is that the arc in which you can use the attack is tiny...  Probably something like 165<FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>°</FONT></SPAN> </FONT>to 195<SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>° (180<SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>° <SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>±</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>15</FONT><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>° and you need to remember that anything in the range of 180<SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>° <SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>±90</FONT><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>° is technically behind the mob</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>)</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>....  If the mob turns just a little bit, it can cause you to not be able to use Cripple (also Spitting Asp)....  They need to widen that arc some to allow for better positioning behind the mob, maybe something in the range of 180<SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>° <SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>±45</FONT><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>°....   </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 51 Troubador</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>

[Aienaa]

<HR> i dont remember what the ability read at 420 str. (caped)  but im pretty sure its 600+  cause i have seen it proc that high <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did not look at the damage on it today, but I was buffed over 420 Str and with the Master 1 of this the highest I hit with Swipe was 749 Damage....  Though, through the entire fight, Swipe only proc'd 5 times, and this was a X4 raid mob that lasted a while...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to check the damage for yourself copy and paste this into your chat window...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>aITEM -2007592154 Whirling Blades (Master I):Whirling Blades (Master I)/a</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 51 Troubador</DIV>

[Demonskill]

i think he meant concealment broke from Exposing Mark proc bug, which is seriously annoying

[silentpsycho]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heck, get rid of _all_ the timers.  Instant refresh on everything.  Also, the stealth and positional requirements should be done away with, or, put a damage multiplyer on all attacks if you happen to get them 'just so'.  I'm not playing an EQ1 rogue, so lets get with the times.  I'm saying this because every other DPS class can do max DPS out of melee range, from the front, back, or side, even sometimes facing the wrong direction; I'm ok with having to be in melee range and looking at what I'm fighting.  But don't make our DPS situational too. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take the safety shields and artificial limitations off. Let us rip it.  Make me go "ooh, so that's why I'm an assasin".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this will never happen, but I can dream, right?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[silentpsycho]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>I'm told the best way to out DPS a ranger is to "buff" him with Friendly Shadows!<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Evil!  I love it.  Oh, this works on Wizards and to a lesser extent Warlocks too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[dparker7]

<P>Lets just say he's right and our autoattack DPS can but up at the 600 DPS range.  That means several of our CAs reduce our damage when we cast them.  Since the majority of the CAs have no purpose other than damage, that mean those CAs are broken.</P> <P>Also, swipe might be different, but in general, INT, not STR effects the damage of a proc.</P>

[Alarye]

<DIV>I would like to see some changes to the timers (as in less time) on our CA's and maybe someone to take a look at instead of requiring being behind/flanking AND being Stealthed, maybe add a bonus DMG factor or a Hate decrease for ALL Stealths to the stealthed component.  I mean really in group situations what does stealth have to do with anything we will more than likely be behind the mob anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>***Caution Possible Incoming Rant***</DIV> <DIV>If they want to add a utility to the scout tree beyond the Evac, then they really need to get rid of non priest classes rezzing and give all scouts the ability to drag corpses (Not shards).  I mean come on why do some of every class get some kind of rezz, that is the biggest [DEE DEE DEE] thing I have ever seen.  It's gotten to the point where all of the "Class Defining" abilities are now the abilities everyone wanted, because "It's Not Fair", I shouldn't have to be forced to group with a class if I don't want to all classes should have the ability of all of the other classes......  Hmmm Lets give Scouts Taunts, lets give Fighters Rezz's, lets give Mages Evacs and lets give Preists the BEST Taunting ability and we'll call them Reactive Heals, Wards and Heals over time.  It has gotten ridiculous with the mashing together of the classes.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>***Rant over***</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as soloing I have not had a problem as long as my ego doesn't get involved.  Our stun only bugs me on the 1, 2 and 3 ^ mobs as long as they are no arrows I still have enough time to stun, stealth, and stab.  It's almost like the stun does a check against the arrows and that indicates the stun duration.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have problems finding or being wanted in groups.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then again I am only level 32 and this is my third toon in the thirties, I also played a Monk to level 31, and a Conjuror till 33.  It's has been hard to find a class I like, and the Assassin is it for now.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So take it as you will.</DIV>

[deciever]

I think our DoT's should tick faster. Why do they take so long to finish and stuff? It's ridiculous and annoying. There's no logical reason for it that I can think of.. Also, why don't we have any more stuns than cheap shot? With so many positional attacks, it would be nice to have a stun with a good duration and a good recast. I think it would be cool if assassins had innate camoflauge or stealth.. Or some tricks to confuse monsters and then stay stealthed. Why would a backstab break our invis, we're behind the monsters to backstab. Wouldn't it hurt a monster more to stab it from the front, in most cases? <div></div>

[judged_one]

He is wrongParsed last night.2 t6 imbued weapon1 legendary poisonStr 396Agi 254With Haste from Chanter 400-450 dmg on 56 ^^^My Swpie doesn't proc 1/3 and it doesn't proc all my procs.What you see is just a single freak incident.

[Endr]

<DIV>I don't care what anyone says.  I have been in a number of groups where when I didn't try I out dpsed everyone.  and when I did I out dpsed them but a large number.  So yes....we're group oriented and sometimes that sucks.  But at the same time.  You knew when you talked to the emissaries what this class relied on.  I'll agree that a few things need fixing.   But the way you talk is just sad.  If you wanted to be self reliant then you should be a tank, or a healer.  We're a utility class, we do the work while someone else takes the brunt of the hits, or the keeping the tank alive.  All we have to do is balance out our dps vs our getting aggro.  You want to solo....make a zerker.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration about not being able to solo.  But I knew to expect that.  Theres no way you couldn't have know as well.  I would love to not have to stare at a mobs butt to cripple him.  Or a few things but really man.....you need some fresh air.  You should rethink this game.  Adapt and overcome, not cry till I get my blankie. </DIV>

[Jakr]

<span><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:He is wrongParsed last night.2 t6 imbued weapon1 legendary poisonStr 396Agi 254With Haste from Chanter 400-450 dmg on 56 ^^^My Swpie doesn't proc 1/3 and it doesn't proc all my procs.What you see is just a single freak incident.<hr></blockquote>i said poisons are 1/3  sigh. its not a freak incident it happens all the time to me. </span><div></div>

[Jakr]

you know what,  screw it.  sense all you guys do is think i lie about what im saying and try to argue with me. fine. im done. next time there is a patch  an expansion or an adventure pack.  you guys can go ahead and lvl your own lvl 60 on the test server or  find a  way to get your toon transfered to beta.  im sick of  reporting crap to have people tell me i lie and to argue with me.  your on your own. <div></div>

[Demonskill]

hey jak i believes you, with that much str i'd assume autoattack can get up to 400 dps alone. But im still wondering how u get 900 dps on ur epic x4 fight heh

[Hawgeous]

Didn't read the whole thread so sorry if I missed it but I would love to see a/some parse data to be able to understand (from a number standpoint) how you are doing it.

[Aienaa]

<P></P> <HR> hey jak i believes you, with that much str i'd assume autoattack can get up to 400 dps alone. But im still wondering how u get 900 dps on ur epic x4 fight heh <P></P> <HR> <P>900 DPS is not impossible, in fact I hit 1005 DPS just the other night....  Alot of it just depends on what your fighting, what CAs are available, what poisons you use.... I'm not saying I can get this every time, as most of the time DPS falls in the 600's, but occasionally you can get lucky....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 53 Troubador</P>

[Aienaa]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Trying to get Parse up here</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Aienaa on <SPAN class=date_text>11-21-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:59 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Aienaa on <SPAN class=date_text>11-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:59 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Aienaa on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:00 AM</span>