Hey, assassins!

deciever · 11-11-2005, 02:48 AM

Most of this has been said before.. But, if you're an assassin, it probably won't hurt you to read this... If you're not, the same applies. This is an honest post from an honest person. Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be. But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!! There's a problem. Most of the assassins damage comes from our backstabs, which we can only use if we are stealthed. Soloing. This is a pain, because we only have one stun, and it's not even a very good one at that.. So.. Even if we do have our backstabs up, in a solo fight, we kill much slower than other DPS classes, especially if there are multiple mobs. We can't do our AoE's if we have agro, especially if it's agro of multiple mobs. It would be awesome to be significant, and special, as assassins. We aren't even good as of now. What is our class defining ability? There's nothing really cool about being less-effective at soloing than at grouping, and there's nothing really cool about not being the best melee damage, especially since we have so much restriction placed on us. Assassins are not a really good class right now, even if there's a really good player behind them. I think I am a good player, I use strategy and I'm fast and careful.. I love assassins. I love my class for what it is.. I just wish we were better at what we are supposed to do. Why would anyone be better at assassinating things than assassins? It doesn't make sense to me. I like a challenge. But, this is beyond a challenge. This is out of my hands. I don't think there's much of anything that can be done to our current CA's that would make us OVERPOWERED. As of now, we are underpowered. We can't sustain any good damage in the shadow of other DPS classes, and we have nothing to compensate for that in any situation. Our medium of doing damage is very straight-forward, pretty much.. BACKSTAB! I'd rather chain weaker backstabs than have to wait on recasts for slightly stronger ones.. At least then damage could be sustained. If we just had significantly smaller recasts, I am sure all assassins would just shut up and be happy. I think everyone would be happy. Assassins would be happy to be desired, and people would be happy to have them in groups or raids. It would be awesome to be substantial, significant, and effective at all times. It would be fun to be efficient and useful. Something else that kind of sucks is that we have to STEALTH and get into POSITION in fights to even do anything. I like stealth, and I don't mind having to go behind a mob to land a backstab, it goes great with the idea of an assassin, but, if we have to do that, why don't we do better damage? If we can't do better damage, why does it take so long to do the damage we can do? I think assassins still need fixing. I think a lot of assassins agree with that, if not all of them. I think even a lot of other people who play different classes would agree that we ought to be better if they knew our situation. If YOU think we DESERVE to be like this, at least tell us why, or tell us so.. At least tell us we won't be fixed.. Is this how we are supposed to be? We're supposed to be good at.. nothing? We're not upset for no reason. We're not power-hungry.. I just want balance.. Or compensation.. Or something. I don't want anyone to be nerfed.. I just want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.. And I think that most people would agree with that if they could think outside themselves.. Would us being better ruin the game for anyone? Would it make other people not have fun? Assassins don't excel at anything.. In any situation. I'd rather hear that assassins won't ever change, or that things are set in stone, than hear nothing at all... To think that the people who made us the way we are don't care about us. At least then I could have spite. I am not bitter, I am not angry. I am just not satisfied with the way things are now.. But, is anyone? I love this game, even with all its flaws, I love it. I even love things about it that I hate. I spend most of my free time playing it, if not all of it.. I am greatful to SOE and the devs and the gms and the art designers and everyone who helps make this game great. Even the playerbase and community.. I will be playing this game for a long time, through thick and thin.. And I am going to stick with my class no matter what, it's the class for me... But, I think it's important that it is known.. There is a problem with our class.. And I think I speak for all assassins when I say that we would like to be fixed, to be better. Give us answers or promises, please.. Anything. I want to be good. I want to be good in some sort of situation. I want to have neat tricks or places to shine. I think that this thread is a good place to reply with anything constructive on how the assassin class can be made better.. Or ideas.. Or anything.. Even responses like, "I feel the same way." or.. "You're stupid." I don't care. Flame me if you really want to. Yeah.. Well.. There was my speech rant thing of 2 copper pieces worth.. Anyway, the other day I was grouping with my bruiser friend, and he used this ability where he like... Teleported.. Then he hit a mob a few times, and then teleported back to where he was standing before he teleported. I thought that was amazing.. It was the coolest CA I have ever seen.. Just because it was something out of the ordinary. Why don't assassins get anything so cool? Or.. At least a cool graphic or something? And.. Why does our 50 fun spell make us look like we're puffing out dirt from our skin? I think that "swathing shadows" ought to look more like thick black or transparent-black particles moving quickly all over our characters.. Doesn't anyone else? Sheesh.

Quicks · 11-11-2005, 03:24 AM

/agree. Great post.

Message Edited by Quicksil on 11-10-2005 02:25 PM

Kabahl · 11-11-2005, 03:59 AM

Things I found to be the most relevant:

deciever69 wrote:
Most of this has been said before.. But, if you're an assassin, it probably won't hurt you to read this... If you're not, the same applies. This is an honest post from an honest person.

Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be. But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!!

It would be awesome to be significant, and special, as assassins. We aren't even good as of now. What is our class defining ability? There's nothing really cool about being less-effective at soloing than at grouping, and there's nothing really cool about not being the best melee damage, especially since we have so much restriction placed on us.

It would be awesome to be substantial, significant, and effective at all times. It would be fun to be efficient and useful.

I like stealth, and I don't mind having to go behind a mob to land a backstab, it goes great with the idea of an assassin, but, if we have to do that, why don't we do better damage? If we can't do better damage, why does it take so long to do the damage we can do?

Is this how we are supposed to be? We're supposed to be good at.. nothing? We're not upset for no reason. We're not power-hungry.. I just want balance.. Or compensation.. Or something. I don't want anyone to be nerfed.. I just want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.. And I think that most people would agree with that if they could think outside themselves.. Would us being better ruin the game for anyone? Would it make other people not have fun? Assassins don't excel at anything.. In any situation.

I think it's important that it is known.. There is a problem with our class.. And I think I speak for all assassins when I say that we would like to be fixed, to be better. Give us answers or promises, please.. Anything. I want to be good. I want to be good in some sort of situation. I want to have neat tricks or places to shine.

I completely agree, especially with the highlighted, underlined, yellow text (but I'm sure you figured that out (-: ). I really would like more situations where, when it's over and the dust settles, people think, "Man, I'm sure glad we had that assassin along to help out . . ." I've heard this about almost every other class in one situation or another (and for those few of you that I haven't heard this about . . . I feel for you, brother.) but NEVER about an assassin in ANY situation.

I know there are othe classes in a similar situation. There are some classes you just never hear tell about because there's no "special something" that someone else can't do and can't do better . . . or at least do the same AND other stuff as well.

There's no "uniqueness" to the Assassin class. High melee auto-attack damage? Well, pretty much every figher and scout has that ability (even though many fighters opt for one hander and shield, they CAN do it if they're not main tank). . .

High damage abilties/spells? Well, just look at wizards, warlocks, rangers, swashbuckers, brigands . . . heck there's a ton of classes that can do high damage with spells/abilities WITHOUT worrying about stealth and running around like a chicken without a head to figure out where in the heck the back of the mob is through the 24 other people in the raid and the spell effects going off (I want them OFF totally. I have particle effects turned as low as they go, but I want spell effects on a different option as it is in EQ 1. I want to see environmental particle effects, I want ALL spell effects OFF, and nobody can seem to tell me how to leave one on and turn OFF the other in EQ 2).

Umm . . . what about stifle? Well no, other classes can do that . . . with a much greater duration . . .without having to slip into stealth AND worrying about being able to hit a mob with melee attacks (I've seen casters having a much greater chance of hititng orange con mobs with spells than melee classes hitting orange con mobs with melee attacks).

Umm . . . . . . oh, we can root! Well . . . rangers, warlocks, wizards, necros . . yada yada . . . all can root better, longer, faster, stronger. . . .

OOOOh, I know, EVAC! . .. . well, wizards, EVERY scout class, some fighters . . . they get that ability as well . . . .

Oh. . . um . . . . oh, we can POISON! . . . Sure, but so can some of the other scout classes . . .. add to that the prohibitive costs in finding an alchemist that can (and will) make poisons, some of the short duration (4 procs only) of some poisons, and the buff vanishing upon death . . . OR mentoring . . . and well, it becomes very expensive just to be able to maintain good, high level, poisons . . .

But wait, we can Assassinate! Sure, once every 15 minutes we can hit for 4000 to 7000 (or so) damage . . . . once . . . . . . . . if you don't get blocked, parried, riposted . . . or just plain miss . . . from BEHIND the mob . . . . . while in STEALTH no less!

I can go on . . . REALY I can. I've got at least 5 or 6 more melee attacks I'm really wanting to write about ( e.g. dot damage? mobs don't last that long . . . ) and I haven't even MENTIONED our ranged attacks . . . especially in comparison to rangers (and I say GOOD for them, it's what they are SUPPOSED to do) yet I watch rangers root and shoot, root trap between them, and I've seen them SOLO 64 ^^^ Epic mobs in Poets Palace . . . and since they do their damage from a distance. . . they don't have to worry about getting hit. We have to get into melee. And root, in this instance, is no good, since mobs turn to face the closest person in melee even if they are in stealth (us if we try to go and backstab). I don't begrudge rangers this, it's what they are built for and they do it extremely well. . . . .but we got . . . umm . . .we have . . . . .

__________________________________________________ ________________. (Sony, I implore you, please fill in the blank.)

- Charn the Loyal, 57 Assassin, Toxxulia

dj_krztoff · 11-11-2005, 04:05 AM

so wait ... what you're saying is that assassins are broken?

Message Edited by dj_krztoff on 11-10-2005 03:08 PM

deciever · 11-11-2005, 04:28 AM

Kabahl wrote:There's no "uniqueness" to the Assassin class. High melee auto-attack damage? Well, pretty much every figher and scout has that ability (even though many fighters opt for one hander and shield, they CAN do it if they're not main tank). . . Honestly, our auto-attack damage isn't even that high. We have no permanent haste buffs, so we proc less with our offensive stance and poisons, I believe. I'd rather have a good permanent haste buff than a permanent DPS% buff..

deciever · 11-11-2005, 04:31 AM

dj_krztoff wrote:
so wait ... what you're saying is that assassins are broken?

I didn't mean to imply that we are broken... Our class works. It just doesn't do what it's supposed to do as well as other DPS classes do, and oftentimes, it doesn't even come close.

Message Edited by deciever69 on 11-10-2005 03:32 PM

dj_krztoff · 11-11-2005, 04:56 AM

ME has gotten worse at [implied sarcasm]

deciever · 11-11-2005, 05:32 AM

dj_krztoff wrote:ME has gotten worse at [implied sarcasm]
:smileysad:

pczry · 11-11-2005, 06:17 AM

play a tanking class and i promise you'll shine.

dj_krztoff · 11-11-2005, 06:46 AM

My main is actually an SK ... [Removed for Content]

Jakr · 11-11-2005, 06:53 AM

i have a paly lol

khalysta · 11-11-2005, 07:16 AM

deciever69 wrote:

Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be. But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!!

Having little to no unique utilities is a good thing. The less utility you have the more you can always argue for dps which in my mind is a good thing. We may not be the best right now but you always have to keep in mind balancing is never really done and slowly but surely our position will get refined and hopefully improve for the better SMILEY

Shayne74 · 11-11-2005, 07:35 AM

Broken is not the word. We are now beyond broken..The last patch was in the right direction more DPS but to make our only stun 2 seconds? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] were they thinking our fast stealth doesn't work in combat ..so now we go hit stun get off stealth and are hit before we can use a backstab. hell my 35 monk has 3 stuns even master II stun only has 2 seconds. I think atleast 5 seconds for a stun 2 seconds to stealth 1 to position and 2 to cast might cut it a bit more but 2 seconds is useless. So all we can do is choose to use arrows to pull or stealth backstab root face to face and back up to get arrow shot off. In small groups its not to hard of a problem if you can stay behind the mob but this is BS having a lvl 53 char and having a hard time fighting down arrows around the same lvl because you can't get backstabs off while fighting.

Thought last patch was bad when they took all the haste away except 1 we can use for a minute every 5 minutes but our big dmg comes only once every 15mins why not give us a 15 min root so we can wait for it to come back up to do dmg again because a few more DPS isn't cutting it if we have to walk up to every mob stealthed to backstab...oh wait we can't to every mob as they see invis so we have to hit that mob with arrow shot for what 187 dmg X 2 hmm sure alot of dmg there then can't backstab with the big 2 second stun we are left with.

deciever · 11-11-2005, 07:42 AM

I want to hit hard. I want to hit hard, and I want to hit hard as often as I can. That's why I made an assassin. I didn't want utility, otherwise I would have made a bard or a fairy or something. We really do have a lot of trouble soloing.. While other DPS classes have it much easier because they don't have to do all this crap just to get a mob to die.. It's ridiculous..

SmEaGoLLuM · 11-11-2005, 08:50 AM

deciever69 wrote:I want to hit hard. I want to hit hard, and I want to hit hard as often as I can. That's why I made an assassin. I didn't want utility, otherwise I would have made a bard or a fairy or something. We really do have a lot of trouble soloing.. While other DPS classes have it much easier because they don't have to do all this crap just to get a mob to die.. It's ridiculous..

khalysta wrote:
Having little to no unique utilities is a good thing. The less utility you have the more you can always argue for dps which in my mind is a good thing. We may not be the best right now but you always have to keep in mind balancing is never really done and slowly but surely our position will get refined and hopefully improve for the better

Yea... Here's to hope! /raises a glass of champagne

Onil · 11-11-2005, 05:18 PM

Excellent post, A lot of very valid points. I hope one of the muckity-mucks in development see this.

Thank You for stating the Assassin position, so eloquently!

Demonskill · 11-11-2005, 07:36 PM

How bout make our Wicked Villany (DPS buff) to affect our CA as well? this will improve our overall DPS and will not affect the other classes as well. It's easy and simple without putting large dmg # in our CA.Anyways, if our skill requires so much, i think they gotta be HUGE dmg. Compare to other classes's CA, we aren't that much higher, and they don't require stealth/behind mob/flanking etc etc... If we required that much i think we should be doing 2x the dmg at least compare to the others.Recast time is nuts on our core attack, right now when i am in chain grinding group, i have to interchange 3 different combo:1) bunch of combo + gorestrike + garrote (maybe deathlyblade when it's up)2) bunch of combo + Fel Shot + Splitting Viper (arrow combo)3) Wicked Villany + Brutal Focus (usually when everything is grey out)Sometimes i think im out of choices when all these 3 combo are out. simply because combo 1 and 2 are 1 min recast, combo 3 is 5 mins recast.BTW, why nerf our Honed Reflex?? 1 min 21 secs down to 1 min and u call that "more effective"? Our class already well under power, and you give us a bone and nerf the other so you think we don't whine as much? I think our Wicked Villany should add in a haste component pair up with the DPS buff as well!

deciever · 11-11-2005, 08:25 PM

Oniliv wrote:
Excellent post, A lot of very valid points. I hope one of the muckity-mucks in development see this.

Thank You for stating the Assassin position, so eloquently!

:smileyhappy:

Hawgeous · 11-11-2005, 09:14 PM

From a logical standpoint I can understand a need to stealth before engaging a fight to hit them hard and attempt to take them out but once the fight begins its a little silly to think you would hide right in front of the target and sneek around to his back side.

I have no problem doing this but as eluded to above a 2 second root is not adequate time for me to get behind the mob and stick him.

I think the assassin class is defined by sticking from the backside and stealth but we are to limited on roots and stealths to use our defining abilities IMHO.

One of my primary concerns is our design is for single mob targest only IMO, yes we have a couple of AoEs but only in group can I manage to use any of then after the fight has begun and with the long cast time (thought it was reduced with the last patch but I can tell that it was) I usually see one of two results 1. stealth is broken so I can't cast or 2. casting, casting, almost there, "target is dead".

In a group there is no way I can put out acceptable DPS in a multi target engagement but I do pretty well with solo targets and now days I only solo when harvesting and something attacks me.

Skratttt · 11-11-2005, 09:27 PM

You know what irks me?? rangers got even MORE haste.......GRRRRR they keep on pulling away and we are their brother class and nothing majour is done to help us

BTW Swipe still sucks....other procs go off a lot more (gleaming strike being a 5% goes off at least 2x in mele...one is a 10% proc the other is a 5% yet the 5% going off 2X MORE OFTEN???

BTW i do wield a leafblade in MH......

Right now 4 CA's need priority fixing......

The 3 dot CA we get need to tick faster or do more upfront dmg...btw lingering blow line needs to get its old 2 kinds of dmg back......

Our stealt atacks should be the fastest casting bar none .5 is too much to chain annything and surveil should have super fast casting also

Cripple needs the back only changed to side/back atm its prety useless back only

Give us an option to disable the "red key when out of range" its completely messed up and i dont like it at all

NerroVI · 11-11-2005, 09:29 PM

Well there is one easy thing they could put in for assassins AND rangers simply put a 2 slot concentration ability something like Innate Stealth for assassins and Innate Camoflauge for rangers anyway a ability that can be put on similar to like pathfinding that would keep us in a stealth mode it would only be really benificial in a group setting though which is the counter to it being over powered, it wouldnt be really used for soloing, so in a group you would have murderous design, apply poison, and innate stealth on thats 4 concentration spots taken up and even if you get hit with a AE your still in stealth the timers on the various backstabs would still limit you basically to a max of 5 stealth attacks in a usual group fight but it takes the anoyance of stealth broken .5 secs before u land a AE backstab from some mobs assault. 2 ae stealth attacks gorestrike punchblade garrote When were solo basically u can lead off with your backstab of choice cheap shot move in back backstab again you arent really gaining anything cos once u land the next hit the mob is unstunned regardless and your still toe to toe, make it a higher level line to replace the 2 other sneaks.

Raage · 11-11-2005, 09:38 PM

I have to say that assassins are by far the most challenging class I've tried (I've not tried any casters past lvl 15). I play a 47 Monk as my main, and love it. I wanted to find a solid ALT (when I run outta 'V') so I've played a Paly, SK, Ranger, Swashbuckler, and now an assassin. I know this isn't a great litmus test, but they are all beyond level 20. IMO the Ranger & Swash are sick. Great DPS, minimal positioning REQUIRED. At the start of a fight w/ those 2 you obviously wanna stun and get off whatever stealthed/ positional attack you have, but after that you can go toe-2-toe w/ em ok.

But man, w/ the Assassin (which is now my favorite of the bunch, partly due to the difficulty), you are all over the place. At level 25 things are still mostly fine, and real fun, but I can see trouble on the horizon.

In my very limited experience so far, it would seem that the assassin could be helped a lot by a few simple things (as suggested by others as well):

1) Another stun 5 secs + (It must works on heroics, as getting behind is our key)

2) Another "Shadow Blade" sort of attack. Used in concert w/ the new stun allows another stealthed and/or positional attack

I know some of these are rehased, but I wanted to add my .02 as I think it's important to get the assassin's at later levels fixed

Get · 11-11-2005, 10:31 PM

Right now 4 CA's need priority fixing......

The 3 dot CA we get need to tick faster or do more upfront dmg...btw lingering blow line needs to get its old 2 kinds of dmg back......

Our stealt atacks should be the fastest casting bar none .5 is too much to chain annything and surveil should have super fast casting also

Cripple needs the back only changed to side/back atm its prety useless back only

Give us an option to disable the "red key when out of range" its completely messed up and i dont like it at all

i agree completely this fix wasnt as big as i had hoped it would be and just to throw this out there still hate my recast times on a lot of my spells =P

Message Edited by Getre on 11-11-2005 09:37 AM

sunkin · 11-11-2005, 11:03 PM

I was thinking of something that might make assassins more worth while and fix there problems and i have an idea. I haven't been reading every post on here since i find they tend to be depressing hearing about how much our class sucks hehe. So if it's already been posted sorry. But what about a new line of poisons for assassins only, that stacks with all the current ones. This could be good in many ways. We could choose the obviouse dmg poison to boost our dps to where it should be. But also we can descide to choose a debuff or stun or something like that to give us more utility and give us more of a use in raids and groups. Since the poisons would be assassin only they could fine tune them so they are not so overpowering or worthless. Of course this poiosn should be really cheap so it would have to be a npc that sells it. For roleplaying this could also work really well. Just put a shady poison dealer only we can talk to somewhere in the sewers or something. But idunno just a thought i figured might be worth sharing.

Sunkin Sojourner

60 Assassin Fortitude Kithicor

deciever · 11-12-2005, 01:43 AM

If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be.

deciever · 11-12-2005, 01:57 AM

Also, why are 3 of our only attacks that we can use from the front mostly dots? If they just did all their damage at once, I think they would be more useful, as their durations usually go far over the time it takes to kill mobs in a grouping situation. Is it so we can dot and then do backstabs, and have the dots damage add to our overall damage during a fight? Why are the durations so long? I wish they just did more damage.. Faster.

Demonskill · 11-12-2005, 02:27 AM

totally agree with you deciever69. the 3 backstab putting us in gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min, assassinate 3/5 mins can really put us to tier 1 no problem. I've been in chain grinding TRIO group, and we kill each heroic encounter in 20 secs or so. I've no idea why I was casting my DoT because the battle end too fast, and might as well just not use them at all and use something else.Oh btw, i think my autoattack do more dmg than those stupid DoT, consider they need 0.5 secs to cast

deciever · 11-12-2005, 02:41 AM

I am starting to think that SOE completely scrapped the whole "DPS tier" idea, since it's completely fuxxored right now. It's funny. Oh, well. I still love EQ2. But... Our auto-attack damage still sort of sucks. Haha. We have no permanent self-haste. If we had permanent-self haste.. We'd get more poison procs, and more weapon procs, I think.. That would add to our damage. And.. Our damage is based on our strength, yet we get no strength buffs.. Bahh.

deciever · 11-12-2005, 02:54 AM

Demonskiller wrote:totally agree with you deciever69. the 3 backstab putting us in gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min, assassinate 3/5 mins can really put us to tier 1 no problem.

It would also in no way make us overpowered, as most fights do not even last longer than 1 minute... And it would allow us to at least sustain good damage on raid mobs. It can't even be argued against by anyone who hasn't played an assassin to a high level. We really need better recasts on those moves specifically, and we could still use upgrades in other areas as well.. But, honestly, I made an assassin to do damage.. Okay? I think anyone who makes an assassin makes one to do damage.. I mean, that's what they're for, right? They can't do anything else! And.. If we can't be good at soloing because of all the restriction placed upon us, we should at least be better melee damage in groups than other DPS classes, or at least the scouts. If these changes will make us better than Rangers, then, I'd suggest that they get upgrades too, to keep us inline with them... But, either way, assassins are not Tier 1 DPS.. We never are.. And.. We should be, if it was promised. We want to be fixed. If you have the power to fix us, if you're willing to help us, we're willing to help you. I love this game.. I just want assassins to be better! A lot of people do!

Message Edited by deciever69 on 11-11-2005 02:07 PM

big da · 11-12-2005, 03:57 AM

Well there is no doubt that we are probably the most challenging dps class to play. Anyone ever try to find the rear end of a book in say poets palace :smileyvery-happy: I end up running around like a pseudo ranger chicken with my head cut off shooting arrows and sure you can try to face the tank but the casters are sitting back nuking things to death and by the time you think you re readyto stick your blade into it's little glossary.. wham it's dead....drat....Of course this applies to all form of wisps goos and other similar no visible rear end mobs .:smileysad:Everyone has their preconceived ideas what a class should be when they first enter a game. I figured the Assassin to be a solo typeclass. I mean it just evokes the Ninja style killing of one stealthy individual planning to murder it s target in one quick fell swoop Of coursethings rarely turn out like you think. Although we can do that to some regard with stealth and Assassinate 4 times each hour... I never figureda trained killer would get his or her butt kicked in a face to face confrontation. And why we have to go invisible once a mob has seen us anddoesnt even lose track of us if we do still escapes me. If we could stealth in a fight and the mob lost track and we could slip in to register anotherhit.. melee a bit and stealth away again. That would be fun and assassin like. Then they can keep the long refresh timers. We would just whittlethe mob down a little at a time. I know I know im off in fantasy land here. One thought on a non overpowering defining skill.. Assassin quests to gain shape shifting abilities that acted like stealths so that when we walkby those Cyclops in POF they thind we are one of them. or take human shape and take a tour around Qeynos if you are evil ..Ok If only I were a game designer :smileyvery-happy:

11-11-2005, 03:59 AM	#3
Kabahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 146	Things I found to be the most relevant: deciever69 wrote: Most of this has been said before.. But, if you're an assassin, it probably won't hurt you to read this... If you're not, the same applies. This is an honest post from an honest person. Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be. But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!! It would be awesome to be significant, and special, as assassins. We aren't even good as of now. What is our class defining ability? There's nothing really cool about being less-effective at soloing than at grouping, and there's nothing really cool about not being the best melee damage, especially since we have so much restriction placed on us. It would be awesome to be substantial, significant, and effective at all times. It would be fun to be efficient and useful. I like stealth, and I don't mind having to go behind a mob to land a backstab, it goes great with the idea of an assassin, but, if we have to do that, why don't we do better damage? If we can't do better damage, why does it take so long to do the damage we can do? Is this how we are supposed to be? We're supposed to be good at.. nothing? We're not upset for no reason. We're not power-hungry.. I just want balance.. Or compensation.. Or something. I don't want anyone to be nerfed.. I just want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.. And I think that most people would agree with that if they could think outside themselves.. Would us being better ruin the game for anyone? Would it make other people not have fun? Assassins don't excel at anything.. In any situation. I think it's important that it is known.. There is a problem with our class.. And I think I speak for all assassins when I say that we would like to be fixed, to be better. Give us answers or promises, please.. Anything. I want to be good. I want to be good in some sort of situation. I want to have neat tricks or places to shine. I completely agree, especially with the highlighted, underlined, yellow text (but I'm sure you figured that out (-: ). I really would like more situations where, when it's over and the dust settles, people think, "Man, I'm sure glad we had that assassin along to help out . . ." I've heard this about almost every other class in one situation or another (and for those few of you that I haven't heard this about . . . I feel for you, brother.) but NEVER about an assassin in ANY situation. I know there are othe classes in a similar situation. There are some classes you just never hear tell about because there's no "special something" that someone else can't do and can't do better . . . or at least do the same AND other stuff as well. There's no "uniqueness" to the Assassin class. High melee auto-attack damage? Well, pretty much every figher and scout has that ability (even though many fighters opt for one hander and shield, they CAN do it if they're not main tank). . . High damage abilties/spells? Well, just look at wizards, warlocks, rangers, swashbuckers, brigands . . . heck there's a ton of classes that can do high damage with spells/abilities WITHOUT worrying about stealth and running around like a chicken without a head to figure out where in the heck the back of the mob is through the 24 other people in the raid and the spell effects going off (I want them OFF totally. I have particle effects turned as low as they go, but I want spell effects on a different option as it is in EQ 1. I want to see environmental particle effects, I want ALL spell effects OFF, and nobody can seem to tell me how to leave one on and turn OFF the other in EQ 2). Umm . . . what about stifle? Well no, other classes can do that . . . with a much greater duration . . .without having to slip into stealth AND worrying about being able to hit a mob with melee attacks (I've seen casters having a much greater chance of hititng orange con mobs with spells than melee classes hitting orange con mobs with melee attacks). Umm . . . . . . oh, we can root! Well . . . rangers, warlocks, wizards, necros . . yada yada . . . all can root better, longer, faster, stronger. . . . OOOOh, I know, EVAC! . .. . well, wizards, EVERY scout class, some fighters . . . they get that ability as well . . . . Oh. . . um . . . . oh, we can POISON! . . . Sure, but so can some of the other scout classes . . .. add to that the prohibitive costs in finding an alchemist that can (and will) make poisons, some of the short duration (4 procs only) of some poisons, and the buff vanishing upon death . . . OR mentoring . . . and well, it becomes very expensive just to be able to maintain good, high level, poisons . . . But wait, we can Assassinate! Sure, once every 15 minutes we can hit for 4000 to 7000 (or so) damage . . . . once . . . . . . . . if you don't get blocked, parried, riposted . . . or just plain miss . . . from BEHIND the mob . . . . . while in STEALTH no less! I can go on . . . REALY I can. I've got at least 5 or 6 more melee attacks I'm really wanting to write about ( e.g. dot damage? mobs don't last that long . . . ) and I haven't even MENTIONED our ranged attacks . . . especially in comparison to rangers (and I say GOOD for them, it's what they are SUPPOSED to do) yet I watch rangers root and shoot, root trap between them, and I've seen them SOLO 64 ^^^ Epic mobs in Poets Palace . . . and since they do their damage from a distance. . . they don't have to worry about getting hit. We have to get into melee. And root, in this instance, is no good, since mobs turn to face the closest person in melee even if they are in stealth (us if we try to go and backstab). I don't begrudge rangers this, it's what they are built for and they do it extremely well. . . . .but we got . . . umm . . .we have . . . . . __________________________________________________ ________________. (Sony, I implore you, please fill in the blank.) - Charn the Loyal, 57 Assassin, Toxxulia __________________

11-11-2005, 04:31 AM	#6
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	dj_krztoff wrote: so wait ... what you're saying is that assassins are broken? I didn't mean to imply that we are broken... Our class works. It just doesn't do what it's supposed to do as well as other DPS classes do, and oftentimes, it doesn't even come close. Message Edited by deciever69 on 11-10-2005 03:32 PM

11-11-2005, 05:32 AM	#8
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	dj_krztoff wrote:ME has gotten worse at [implied sarcasm] :smileysad:

11-11-2005, 06:17 AM	#9
pczry Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	play a tanking class and i promise you'll shine. __________________

11-11-2005, 06:53 AM	#11
Jakr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	i have a paly lol __________________ Jakron lvl 60 Assassin Jakrin lvl 55 Paladin Ascendanceguild.com

11-11-2005, 02:48 AM	#1
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	Most of this has been said before.. But, if you're an assassin, it probably won't hurt you to read this... If you're not, the same applies. This is an honest post from an honest person. Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be. But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!! There's a problem. Most of the assassins damage comes from our backstabs, which we can only use if we are stealthed. Soloing. This is a pain, because we only have one stun, and it's not even a very good one at that.. So.. Even if we do have our backstabs up, in a solo fight, we kill much slower than other DPS classes, especially if there are multiple mobs. We can't do our AoE's if we have agro, especially if it's agro of multiple mobs. It would be awesome to be significant, and special, as assassins. We aren't even good as of now. What is our class defining ability? There's nothing really cool about being less-effective at soloing than at grouping, and there's nothing really cool about not being the best melee damage, especially since we have so much restriction placed on us. Assassins are not a really good class right now, even if there's a really good player behind them. I think I am a good player, I use strategy and I'm fast and careful.. I love assassins. I love my class for what it is.. I just wish we were better at what we are supposed to do. Why would anyone be better at assassinating things than assassins? It doesn't make sense to me. I like a challenge. But, this is beyond a challenge. This is out of my hands. I don't think there's much of anything that can be done to our current CA's that would make us OVERPOWERED. As of now, we are underpowered. We can't sustain any good damage in the shadow of other DPS classes, and we have nothing to compensate for that in any situation. Our medium of doing damage is very straight-forward, pretty much.. BACKSTAB! I'd rather chain weaker backstabs than have to wait on recasts for slightly stronger ones.. At least then damage could be sustained. If we just had significantly smaller recasts, I am sure all assassins would just shut up and be happy. I think everyone would be happy. Assassins would be happy to be desired, and people would be happy to have them in groups or raids. It would be awesome to be substantial, significant, and effective at all times. It would be fun to be efficient and useful. Something else that kind of sucks is that we have to STEALTH and get into POSITION in fights to even do anything. I like stealth, and I don't mind having to go behind a mob to land a backstab, it goes great with the idea of an assassin, but, if we have to do that, why don't we do better damage? If we can't do better damage, why does it take so long to do the damage we can do? I think assassins still need fixing. I think a lot of assassins agree with that, if not all of them. I think even a lot of other people who play different classes would agree that we ought to be better if they knew our situation. If YOU think we DESERVE to be like this, at least tell us why, or tell us so.. At least tell us we won't be fixed.. Is this how we are supposed to be? We're supposed to be good at.. nothing? We're not upset for no reason. We're not power-hungry.. I just want balance.. Or compensation.. Or something. I don't want anyone to be nerfed.. I just want the game to be fair and fun for everyone.. And I think that most people would agree with that if they could think outside themselves.. Would us being better ruin the game for anyone? Would it make other people not have fun? Assassins don't excel at anything.. In any situation. I'd rather hear that assassins won't ever change, or that things are set in stone, than hear nothing at all... To think that the people who made us the way we are don't care about us. At least then I could have spite. I am not bitter, I am not angry. I am just not satisfied with the way things are now.. But, is anyone? I love this game, even with all its flaws, I love it. I even love things about it that I hate. I spend most of my free time playing it, if not all of it.. I am greatful to SOE and the devs and the gms and the art designers and everyone who helps make this game great. Even the playerbase and community.. I will be playing this game for a long time, through thick and thin.. And I am going to stick with my class no matter what, it's the class for me... But, I think it's important that it is known.. There is a problem with our class.. And I think I speak for all assassins when I say that we would like to be fixed, to be better. Give us answers or promises, please.. Anything. I want to be good. I want to be good in some sort of situation. I want to have neat tricks or places to shine. I think that this thread is a good place to reply with anything constructive on how the assassin class can be made better.. Or ideas.. Or anything.. Even responses like, "I feel the same way." or.. "You're stupid." I don't care. Flame me if you really want to. Yeah.. Well.. There was my speech rant thing of 2 copper pieces worth.. Anyway, the other day I was grouping with my bruiser friend, and he used this ability where he like... Teleported.. Then he hit a mob a few times, and then teleported back to where he was standing before he teleported. I thought that was amazing.. It was the coolest CA I have ever seen.. Just because it was something out of the ordinary. Why don't assassins get anything so cool? Or.. At least a cool graphic or something? And.. Why does our 50 fun spell make us look like we're puffing out dirt from our skin? I think that "swathing shadows" ought to look more like thick black or transparent-black particles moving quickly all over our characters.. Doesn't anyone else? Sheesh.

11-11-2005, 03:24 AM	#2
Quicks Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 20	/agree. Great post. Message Edited by Quicksil on 11-10-2005 02:25 PM

11-11-2005, 04:05 AM	#4
dj_krztoff Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	so wait ... what you're saying is that assassins are broken? Message Edited by dj_krztoff on 11-10-2005 03:08 PM

11-11-2005, 04:28 AM	#5
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	Kabahl wrote:There's no "uniqueness" to the Assassin class. High melee auto-attack damage? Well, pretty much every figher and scout has that ability (even though many fighters opt for one hander and shield, they CAN do it if they're not main tank). . . Honestly, our auto-attack damage isn't even that high. We have no permanent haste buffs, so we proc less with our offensive stance and poisons, I believe. I'd rather have a good permanent haste buff than a permanent DPS% buff..

11-11-2005, 04:56 AM	#7
dj_krztoff Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	ME has gotten worse at [implied sarcasm]

11-11-2005, 06:46 AM	#10
dj_krztoff Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	My main is actually an SK ... [Removed for Content]

11-11-2005, 07:16 AM	#12
khalysta Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 490	deciever69 wrote: Assassins are far more effective in groups than they are at soloing, everyone should know that.. We're still not the best melee damage in any situation, and I still don't think we're where we need to be. But.. What are assassins supposed to be for, exactly? Is it to do burst damage, and then die? I think that ASSASSINS should be the best MELEE DPS at ALL times, hands down. If not DPS, at least the most capable of PUTTING OUT A LOT OF DAMAGE in any fight, which, we are not. WE DON'T EVEN GET ANY UNIQUE UTILITIES!! Having little to no unique utilities is a good thing. The less utility you have the more you can always argue for dps which in my mind is a good thing. We may not be the best right now but you always have to keep in mind balancing is never really done and slowly but surely our position will get refined and hopefully improve for the better

11-11-2005, 07:35 AM	#13
Shayne74 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Broken is not the word. We are now beyond broken..The last patch was in the right direction more DPS but to make our only stun 2 seconds? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] were they thinking our fast stealth doesn't work in combat ..so now we go hit stun get off stealth and are hit before we can use a backstab. hell my 35 monk has 3 stuns even master II stun only has 2 seconds. I think atleast 5 seconds for a stun 2 seconds to stealth 1 to position and 2 to cast might cut it a bit more but 2 seconds is useless. So all we can do is choose to use arrows to pull or stealth backstab root face to face and back up to get arrow shot off. In small groups its not to hard of a problem if you can stay behind the mob but this is BS having a lvl 53 char and having a hard time fighting down arrows around the same lvl because you can't get backstabs off while fighting. Thought last patch was bad when they took all the haste away except 1 we can use for a minute every 5 minutes but our big dmg comes only once every 15mins why not give us a 15 min root so we can wait for it to come back up to do dmg again because a few more DPS isn't cutting it if we have to walk up to every mob stealthed to backstab...oh wait we can't to every mob as they see invis so we have to hit that mob with arrow shot for what 187 dmg X 2 hmm sure alot of dmg there then can't backstab with the big 2 second stun we are left with.

11-11-2005, 07:42 AM	#14
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	I want to hit hard. I want to hit hard, and I want to hit hard as often as I can. That's why I made an assassin. I didn't want utility, otherwise I would have made a bard or a fairy or something. We really do have a lot of trouble soloing.. While other DPS classes have it much easier because they don't have to do all this crap just to get a mob to die.. It's ridiculous..

11-11-2005, 08:50 AM	#15
SmEaGoLLuM General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 389	deciever69 wrote:I want to hit hard. I want to hit hard, and I want to hit hard as often as I can. That's why I made an assassin. I didn't want utility, otherwise I would have made a bard or a fairy or something. We really do have a lot of trouble soloing.. While other DPS classes have it much easier because they don't have to do all this crap just to get a mob to die.. It's ridiculous.. khalysta wrote: Having little to no unique utilities is a good thing. The less utility you have the more you can always argue for dps which in my mind is a good thing. We may not be the best right now but you always have to keep in mind balancing is never really done and slowly but surely our position will get refined and hopefully improve for the better Yea... Here's to hope! /raises a glass of champagne

11-11-2005, 05:18 PM	#16
Onil Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	Excellent post, A lot of very valid points. I hope one of the muckity-mucks in development see this. Thank You for stating the Assassin position, so eloquently!

11-11-2005, 07:36 PM	#17
Demonskill General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 317	How bout make our Wicked Villany (DPS buff) to affect our CA as well? this will improve our overall DPS and will not affect the other classes as well. It's easy and simple without putting large dmg # in our CA.Anyways, if our skill requires so much, i think they gotta be HUGE dmg. Compare to other classes's CA, we aren't that much higher, and they don't require stealth/behind mob/flanking etc etc... If we required that much i think we should be doing 2x the dmg at least compare to the others.Recast time is nuts on our core attack, right now when i am in chain grinding group, i have to interchange 3 different combo:1) bunch of combo + gorestrike + garrote (maybe deathlyblade when it's up)2) bunch of combo + Fel Shot + Splitting Viper (arrow combo)3) Wicked Villany + Brutal Focus (usually when everything is grey out)Sometimes i think im out of choices when all these 3 combo are out. simply because combo 1 and 2 are 1 min recast, combo 3 is 5 mins recast.BTW, why nerf our Honed Reflex?? 1 min 21 secs down to 1 min and u call that "more effective"? Our class already well under power, and you give us a bone and nerf the other so you think we don't whine as much? I think our Wicked Villany should add in a haste component pair up with the DPS buff as well! __________________ -- Ongbak The Loyal -- Level 70 Assassin no guild atm Nektolus Server

11-11-2005, 08:25 PM	#18
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	Oniliv wrote: Excellent post, A lot of very valid points. I hope one of the muckity-mucks in development see this. Thank You for stating the Assassin position, so eloquently! :smileyhappy:

11-11-2005, 09:14 PM	#19
Hawgeous Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 144	From a logical standpoint I can understand a need to stealth before engaging a fight to hit them hard and attempt to take them out but once the fight begins its a little silly to think you would hide right in front of the target and sneek around to his back side. I have no problem doing this but as eluded to above a 2 second root is not adequate time for me to get behind the mob and stick him. I think the assassin class is defined by sticking from the backside and stealth but we are to limited on roots and stealths to use our defining abilities IMHO. One of my primary concerns is our design is for single mob targest only IMO, yes we have a couple of AoEs but only in group can I manage to use any of then after the fight has begun and with the long cast time (thought it was reduced with the last patch but I can tell that it was) I usually see one of two results 1. stealth is broken so I can't cast or 2. casting, casting, almost there, "target is dead". In a group there is no way I can put out acceptable DPS in a multi target engagement but I do pretty well with solo targets and now days I only solo when harvesting and something attacks me.

11-11-2005, 09:27 PM	#20
Skratttt Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 375	You know what irks me?? rangers got even MORE haste.......GRRRRR they keep on pulling away and we are their brother class and nothing majour is done to help us BTW Swipe still sucks....other procs go off a lot more (gleaming strike being a 5% goes off at least 2x in mele...one is a 10% proc the other is a 5% yet the 5% going off 2X MORE OFTEN??? BTW i do wield a leafblade in MH...... Right now 4 CA's need priority fixing...... The 3 dot CA we get need to tick faster or do more upfront dmg...btw lingering blow line needs to get its old 2 kinds of dmg back...... Our stealt atacks should be the fastest casting bar none .5 is too much to chain annything and surveil should have super fast casting also Cripple needs the back only changed to side/back atm its prety useless back only Give us an option to disable the "red key when out of range" its completely messed up and i dont like it at all

11-11-2005, 09:29 PM	#21
NerroVI Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 150	Well there is one easy thing they could put in for assassins AND rangers simply put a 2 slot concentration ability something like Innate Stealth for assassins and Innate Camoflauge for rangers anyway a ability that can be put on similar to like pathfinding that would keep us in a stealth mode it would only be really benificial in a group setting though which is the counter to it being over powered, it wouldnt be really used for soloing, so in a group you would have murderous design, apply poison, and innate stealth on thats 4 concentration spots taken up and even if you get hit with a AE your still in stealth the timers on the various backstabs would still limit you basically to a max of 5 stealth attacks in a usual group fight but it takes the anoyance of stealth broken .5 secs before u land a AE backstab from some mobs assault. 2 ae stealth attacks gorestrike punchblade garrote When were solo basically u can lead off with your backstab of choice cheap shot move in back backstab again you arent really gaining anything cos once u land the next hit the mob is unstunned regardless and your still toe to toe, make it a higher level line to replace the 2 other sneaks. __________________ Lokas VonBlitzkrieg Assassin of Sinister Nektulos

11-11-2005, 09:38 PM	#22
Raage Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 135	I have to say that assassins are by far the most challenging class I've tried (I've not tried any casters past lvl 15). I play a 47 Monk as my main, and love it. I wanted to find a solid ALT (when I run outta 'V') so I've played a Paly, SK, Ranger, Swashbuckler, and now an assassin. I know this isn't a great litmus test, but they are all beyond level 20. IMO the Ranger & Swash are sick. Great DPS, minimal positioning REQUIRED. At the start of a fight w/ those 2 you obviously wanna stun and get off whatever stealthed/ positional attack you have, but after that you can go toe-2-toe w/ em ok. But man, w/ the Assassin (which is now my favorite of the bunch, partly due to the difficulty), you are all over the place. At level 25 things are still mostly fine, and real fun, but I can see trouble on the horizon. In my very limited experience so far, it would seem that the assassin could be helped a lot by a few simple things (as suggested by others as well): 1) Another stun 5 secs + (It must works on heroics, as getting behind is our key) 2) Another "Shadow Blade" sort of attack. Used in concert w/ the new stun allows another stealthed and/or positional attack I know some of these are rehased, but I wanted to add my .02 as I think it's important to get the assassin's at later levels fixed

11-11-2005, 10:31 PM	#23
Get Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 12	Right now 4 CA's need priority fixing...... The 3 dot CA we get need to tick faster or do more upfront dmg...btw lingering blow line needs to get its old 2 kinds of dmg back...... Our stealt atacks should be the fastest casting bar none .5 is too much to chain annything and surveil should have super fast casting also Cripple needs the back only changed to side/back atm its prety useless back only Give us an option to disable the "red key when out of range" its completely messed up and i dont like it at all i agree completely this fix wasnt as big as i had hoped it would be and just to throw this out there still hate my recast times on a lot of my spells =P Message Edited by Getre on 11-11-2005 09:37 AM

11-11-2005, 11:03 PM	#24
sunkin General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 16	I was thinking of something that might make assassins more worth while and fix there problems and i have an idea. I haven't been reading every post on here since i find they tend to be depressing hearing about how much our class sucks hehe. So if it's already been posted sorry. But what about a new line of poisons for assassins only, that stacks with all the current ones. This could be good in many ways. We could choose the obviouse dmg poison to boost our dps to where it should be. But also we can descide to choose a debuff or stun or something like that to give us more utility and give us more of a use in raids and groups. Since the poisons would be assassin only they could fine tune them so they are not so overpowering or worthless. Of course this poiosn should be really cheap so it would have to be a npc that sells it. For roleplaying this could also work really well. Just put a shady poison dealer only we can talk to somewhere in the sewers or something. But idunno just a thought i figured might be worth sharing. Sunkin Sojourner 60 Assassin Fortitude Kithicor __________________

11-12-2005, 01:43 AM	#25
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be.

11-12-2005, 01:57 AM	#26
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	Also, why are 3 of our only attacks that we can use from the front mostly dots? If they just did all their damage at once, I think they would be more useful, as their durations usually go far over the time it takes to kill mobs in a grouping situation. Is it so we can dot and then do backstabs, and have the dots damage add to our overall damage during a fight? Why are the durations so long? I wish they just did more damage.. Faster.

11-12-2005, 02:27 AM	#27
Demonskill General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 317	totally agree with you deciever69. the 3 backstab putting us in gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min, assassinate 3/5 mins can really put us to tier 1 no problem. I've been in chain grinding TRIO group, and we kill each heroic encounter in 20 secs or so. I've no idea why I was casting my DoT because the battle end too fast, and might as well just not use them at all and use something else.Oh btw, i think my autoattack do more dmg than those stupid DoT, consider they need 0.5 secs to cast __________________ -- Ongbak The Loyal -- Level 70 Assassin no guild atm Nektolus Server

11-12-2005, 02:41 AM	#28
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	I am starting to think that SOE completely scrapped the whole "DPS tier" idea, since it's completely fuxxored right now. It's funny. Oh, well. I still love EQ2. But... Our auto-attack damage still sort of sucks. Haha. We have no permanent self-haste. If we had permanent-self haste.. We'd get more poison procs, and more weapon procs, I think.. That would add to our damage. And.. Our damage is based on our strength, yet we get no strength buffs.. Bahh.

11-12-2005, 02:54 AM	#29
deciever Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 39	Demonskiller wrote:totally agree with you deciever69. the 3 backstab putting us in gorestrike 30 secs, deathly blade 1 min, assassinate 3/5 mins can really put us to tier 1 no problem. It would also in no way make us overpowered, as most fights do not even last longer than 1 minute... And it would allow us to at least sustain good damage on raid mobs. It can't even be argued against by anyone who hasn't played an assassin to a high level. We really need better recasts on those moves specifically, and we could still use upgrades in other areas as well.. But, honestly, I made an assassin to do damage.. Okay? I think anyone who makes an assassin makes one to do damage.. I mean, that's what they're for, right? They can't do anything else! And.. If we can't be good at soloing because of all the restriction placed upon us, we should at least be better melee damage in groups than other DPS classes, or at least the scouts. If these changes will make us better than Rangers, then, I'd suggest that they get upgrades too, to keep us inline with them... But, either way, assassins are not Tier 1 DPS.. We never are.. And.. We should be, if it was promised. We want to be fixed. If you have the power to fix us, if you're willing to help us, we're willing to help you. I love this game.. I just want assassins to be better! A lot of people do! Message Edited by deciever69 on 11-11-2005 02:07 PM

11-12-2005, 03:57 AM	#30
big da Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	Well there is no doubt that we are probably the most challenging dps class to play. Anyone ever try to find the rear end of a book in say poets palace :smileyvery-happy: I end up running around like a pseudo ranger chicken with my head cut off shooting arrows and sure you can try to face the tank but the casters are sitting back nuking things to death and by the time you think you re readyto stick your blade into it's little glossary.. wham it's dead....drat....Of course this applies to all form of wisps goos and other similar no visible rear end mobs .:smileysad:Everyone has their preconceived ideas what a class should be when they first enter a game. I figured the Assassin to be a solo typeclass. I mean it just evokes the Ninja style killing of one stealthy individual planning to murder it s target in one quick fell swoop Of coursethings rarely turn out like you think. Although we can do that to some regard with stealth and Assassinate 4 times each hour... I never figureda trained killer would get his or her butt kicked in a face to face confrontation. And why we have to go invisible once a mob has seen us anddoesnt even lose track of us if we do still escapes me. If we could stealth in a fight and the mob lost track and we could slip in to register anotherhit.. melee a bit and stealth away again. That would be fun and assassin like. Then they can keep the long refresh timers. We would just whittlethe mob down a little at a time. I know I know im off in fantasy land here. One thought on a non overpowering defining skill.. Assassin quests to gain shape shifting abilities that acted like stealths so that when we walkby those Cyclops in POF they thind we are one of them. or take human shape and take a tour around Qeynos if you are evil ..Ok If only I were a game designer :smileyvery-happy: