New Guardian Traits (Aug 29th)

TunaBoo · 08-30-2005, 08:50 AM

So they changed our traits we pick again on beta. Trainings still gone, but old master2 list gone. Now, we pick a master2 spell at 14 and every 10 levels. See bottom of post for a list. All the traits below 44 seem useless at 60 in beta. Here is my review of 44 traits. Maddening Defense - Get a new spell at 57 that does the same thing at 57 at adept1 quality, so adept3 would beat this. Desperate Rush - Our offensive stance, not seeing an upgrade to this so still useable at 60 (when in DPS mode) Fortified Stance - Upgrade to this at 58, beats fortified stance pretty badly at adept quality. Taunting Assault - Goading assault at 58 is an upgrade to this, and is much better. So as sad as this is for me to say, as a guardian with an eye at the end game (level 60), the only viable choice at level 44 is desperate rush. Every other spell I see an upgrade before 60, this one I do not. If I made a mistake and missed the upgrade, then ignore me... but unless someone points out this upgrade to me, it looks like desperate rush is the winner.

TunaBoo · 08-30-2005, 08:52 AM

(desperate rush should get an upgrade at 58 but not seeing it anywhere.. wish I was 60 so I could look for myself).

a6eaq · 08-30-2005, 09:05 AM

Thanks for the good info Tuna.

Sir_Halbarad · 08-30-2005, 11:57 AM

I was wondering myself where the desperate rush upgrade is... Following the "update every 14 levels" rule of thumb, we should get an upgrade at 58 as Tuna said. /confused... Any lvl 60 beta player able to shed some light? SMILEY

Nazo · 08-30-2005, 12:34 PM

We got a wee bit shafted because of this 14 24 34 44 yeah

Exill · 08-30-2005, 02:50 PM

I am 60 on beta and as far as I know there is no upgrade to Desperate Rush even though its a level 44 spell. That is kinda lame because of it being our offensive stance and our already lame dps.

Message Edited by Exill on 08-30-2005 03:51 AM

Message Edited by Exill on 08-30-2005 04:05 AM

TunaBoo · 08-30-2005, 03:53 PM

Well keep us informed if they add one, if not 44 trainings is clear. Care to post or email me the 54 trainings so this list can be complete?

Exill · 08-30-2005, 06:21 PM

This is best that I could do. I tried to get screenshots of all the Master 2 stats but the thing started to glitch out on me and was turning all my spells into apprentice 1s.

Id say the choice is between Protect and Call of Defense.

Colossaltitan · 08-30-2005, 07:41 PM

Thx for info folks =)

TunaBoo · 08-30-2005, 10:46 PM

Yah all of tunabash's spells that can be trained are app1, ghetto but meh

Exill · 08-31-2005, 02:48 PM

Bad news. I don't know if I did not notice it before or if they just added this in recently but: I think this means that all our T5 trainings get upgraded at T6.

Colossaltitan · 08-31-2005, 05:07 PM

IMO, is this really much of an offensive stance? I mean I don't care much b/c I'm not out their to deal the damg I am here to take it. But as far as an offensive stance goes, will this really up are DPS? I mean, The 72 STR increase isn't bad but on Live I can swap out my 2 +12 STA dolls for to +12STR, hit a STR Imbued ring for another what? Not sure on exact # and still not much of a noticable melee damg difference. The Piercing,Slashing,Crushing doesn't really mean much atleast on Live after fiddling around with Call to Battle & Fortified Stance (taking them on and off & auto-attacking)....

Anyone else feel the same?
Just wish I saw something more unique I suppose, rather than oh byebye to your defense, hello a little STR & oh...the unforgetable 13ish Piercing,Slashing,Crushing! Woot your uber offensive now!

Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 08-31-2005 09:15 AM

Vulking · 08-31-2005, 10:07 PM

Let me get this straight, since im a little slow.... CAs like Tremor and Protect are being turned into Trainings? If true then why in the hell did i spend plat on rubies to make these adept IIIs?

Colossaltitan · 08-31-2005, 10:23 PM

Wado · 08-31-2005, 10:43 PM

No, they're still skills, the training is just a M2 upgrade to that skill - it would upgrade your Adp3.

Vulking · 08-31-2005, 10:54 PM

figured it out, not as bad as i thought.

Message Edited by Hammarus on 09-02-2005 01:00 PM

Colossaltitan · 08-31-2005, 11:33 PM

Umm dude?
Wakeup.
What used to be the "Specialized Trainings" @ the '0' levels they were adept 2 quality, now they are master 2 quality.
I don't see what there is to gripe about.
Also, this has happened to skills throughout all of the levels. And its happening.....again..... I don't understand what you are freaking about.
You keep all the same CA's although they are changing around a few, some for better some for worst, the specialized training does not take away from other skills and you only get to keep the one you choose. It simply upgrades the one you choose. And all this about "wasted plat" and such. It happens, all the time, think when you were leveling up. Dig In Adept3......1p....2days later, Specialized Training is better! Get that, oh man wasted 1pp. a week later fortified stance......adept3.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]....heh another wasted time into another skill.

This has always been like this. Thats not what the fuss is about SMILEY

R · 09-01-2005, 04:50 PM

Colossaltitan wrote:
Umm dude?
Wakeup.
What used to be the "Specialized Trainings" @ the '0' levels they were adept 2 quality, now they are master 2 quality.
I don't see what there is to gripe about.
Also, this has happened to skills throughout all of the levels. And its happening.....again..... I don't understand what you are freaking about.
You keep all the same CA's although they are changing around a few, some for better some for worst, the specialized training does not take away from other skills and you only get to keep the one you choose. It simply upgrades the one you choose. And all this about "wasted plat" and such. It happens, all the time, think when you were leveling up. Dig In Adept3......1p....2days later, Specialized Training is better! Get that, oh man wasted 1pp. a week later fortified stance......adept3.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]....heh another wasted time into another skill.

This has always been like this. Thats not what the fuss is about

Some training abilities had added bonus's to them don't forget.. Slate's Invigorating Threat gave bonus mitigation and so did Braksans. Sure training was only an "Adept II" quality of the existing spell, but that was only for the existing effects of what the spell already did. Simply upgrading our current spells to Master II quality isn't gonna give us those added qwerks.

I don't really mind either way, but I've been seeing a lot of misinformed posts about the old training vs. the new.

I honestly prefer the old training system because it gave me some added change to my skills, now its just the same but higher "quality," but I don't mind all too much about this new system.

Colossaltitan · 09-01-2005, 10:26 PM

all of those aren't gonig to be usefull anymoer neways (braskans, uthros deviant, etc..) just the latest ones u get is all that will be useful.

Yahk · 09-02-2005, 12:08 AM

OMG...So they are eliminating our haste?

Thanks for getting rid of what little DPS we had. SMILEY

Airog · 09-02-2005, 01:06 AM

Changeing haste to Offensive stance, will be interesting to see if it adds or takes away DPS.

Colossaltitan · 09-02-2005, 01:18 AM

Colossaltitan wrote:

IMO, is this really much of an offensive stance? I mean I don't care much b/c I'm not out their to deal the damg I am here to take it. But as far as an offensive stance goes, will this really up are DPS? I mean, The 72 STR increase isn't bad but on Live I can swap out my 2 +12 STA dolls for to +12STR, hit a STR Imbued ring for another what? Not sure on exact # and still not much of a noticable melee damg difference. The Piercing,Slashing,Crushing doesn't really mean much atleast on Live after fiddling around with Call to Battle & Fortified Stance (taking them on and off & auto-attacking)....

Anyone else feel the same?
Just wish I saw something more unique I suppose, rather than oh byebye to your defense, hello a little STR & oh...the unforgetable 13ish Piercing,Slashing,Crushing! Woot your uber offensive now!

Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 08-31-2005 09:15 AM

^^Were my thoughts on that^^.

Airog · 09-02-2005, 01:26 AM

Yeah, doesn't seem as nice as the Haste, huh?

Sir_Halbarad · 09-02-2005, 12:22 PM

Maybe I was/am doing it wrong all the time, but I never use the Haste. The power drain is too high in my opinion. I spend my power for taunts, combat arts and buffs... /shrug

blueduckie · 09-02-2005, 12:47 PM

I personally love the haste. With enchanter and normally a bard i my group i can hardly burn my power and hardened metallic hammer is alot of dps IMO well worth the small power every 30 sec. When dpsing i definately use it and i use it with htl currently for tons more procs. Very sexy to have wish they werent taking away its haste but lowering it. Even 10% haste would be fine

Airog · 09-02-2005, 08:23 PM

When you are DPS'ing, not tanking, Self Haste + FBSS +haste buffs from others, you can get a 2hand weapon delay down to make it so you hit once inbetween each Combat Art, which greatly ups your DPS form hitting once every two Combat Arts. Of course with .2seconds cast times, that will change.

Colossaltitan · 09-02-2005, 10:36 PM

I always use desperate rush in raiding. With mast1 crack or even adept3 u are fine on power. HTL, Desperate Rush, Hunker down (yes I still use it SMILEY

) deafening in between and you can keep aggro better. the haste is nice and helpsw / it. but we wont need that for aggro control come expansion b/c HTL = When u get hit not when u hit.

Airog · 09-03-2005, 01:11 AM

Yeah, the new HTL spells seem pretty nice.

JNewby · 09-08-2005, 01:29 AM

Colossaltitan wrote:
I always use desperate rush in raiding. With mast1 crack or even adept3 u are fine on power. HTL, Desperate Rush, Hunker down (yes I still use it ) deafening in between and you can keep aggro better. the haste is nice and helpsw / it. but we wont need that for aggro control come expansion b/c HTL = When u get hit not when u hit.

eh u know hunker downs def buff doesnt stack right/

Dec · 09-12-2005, 09:31 AM

Thanks for all the info folks

08-30-2005, 08:50 AM	#1
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	So they changed our traits we pick again on beta. Trainings still gone, but old master2 list gone. Now, we pick a master2 spell at 14 and every 10 levels. See bottom of post for a list. All the traits below 44 seem useless at 60 in beta. Here is my review of 44 traits. Maddening Defense - Get a new spell at 57 that does the same thing at 57 at adept1 quality, so adept3 would beat this. Desperate Rush - Our offensive stance, not seeing an upgrade to this so still useable at 60 (when in DPS mode) Fortified Stance - Upgrade to this at 58, beats fortified stance pretty badly at adept quality. Taunting Assault - Goading assault at 58 is an upgrade to this, and is much better. So as sad as this is for me to say, as a guardian with an eye at the end game (level 60), the only viable choice at level 44 is desperate rush. Every other spell I see an upgrade before 60, this one I do not. If I made a mistake and missed the upgrade, then ignore me... but unless someone points out this upgrade to me, it looks like desperate rush is the winner. __________________ www.spiralguild.com

08-30-2005, 08:52 AM	#2
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	(desperate rush should get an upgrade at 58 but not seeing it anywhere.. wish I was 60 so I could look for myself). __________________ www.spiralguild.com

08-30-2005, 11:57 AM	#4
Sir_Halbarad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 4 Bayle Court, South Qeynos Posts: 509	I was wondering myself where the desperate rush upgrade is... Following the "update every 14 levels" rule of thumb, we should get an upgrade at 58 as Tuna said. /confused... Any lvl 60 beta player able to shed some light? __________________ Halbaradx - Guardian Dunamis - Splitpaw Dunamis is recruiting - visit us at www.dunamis-eq2.com Open Spots: Inquisitor \| Mystic \| Fury \| Sorcerer

08-30-2005, 02:50 PM	#6
Exill Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 67	I am 60 on beta and as far as I know there is no upgrade to Desperate Rush even though its a level 44 spell. That is kinda lame because of it being our offensive stance and our already lame dps. Message Edited by Exill on 08-30-2005 03:51 AM Message Edited by Exill on 08-30-2005 04:05 AM __________________

08-30-2005, 03:53 PM	#7
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	Well keep us informed if they add one, if not 44 trainings is clear. Care to post or email me the 54 trainings so this list can be complete? __________________ www.spiralguild.com

08-30-2005, 09:05 AM	#3
a6eaq Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 137	Thanks for the good info Tuna.

08-30-2005, 12:34 PM	#5
Nazo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	We got a wee bit shafted because of this 14 24 34 44 yeah

08-30-2005, 06:21 PM	#8
Exill Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 67	This is best that I could do. I tried to get screenshots of all the Master 2 stats but the thing started to glitch out on me and was turning all my spells into apprentice 1s. Id say the choice is between Protect and Call of Defense. __________________

08-30-2005, 07:41 PM	#9
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	Thx for info folks =)

08-30-2005, 10:46 PM	#10
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	Yah all of tunabash's spells that can be trained are app1, ghetto but meh __________________ www.spiralguild.com

08-31-2005, 02:48 PM	#11
Exill Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 67	Bad news. I don't know if I did not notice it before or if they just added this in recently but: I think this means that all our T5 trainings get upgraded at T6. __________________

08-31-2005, 05:07 PM	#12
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	IMO, is this really much of an offensive stance? I mean I don't care much b/c I'm not out their to deal the damg I am here to take it. But as far as an offensive stance goes, will this really up are DPS? I mean, The 72 STR increase isn't bad but on Live I can swap out my 2 +12 STA dolls for to +12STR, hit a STR Imbued ring for another what? Not sure on exact # and still not much of a noticable melee damg difference. The Piercing,Slashing,Crushing doesn't really mean much atleast on Live after fiddling around with Call to Battle & Fortified Stance (taking them on and off & auto-attacking).... Anyone else feel the same? Just wish I saw something more unique I suppose, rather than oh byebye to your defense, hello a little STR & oh...the unforgetable 13ish Piercing,Slashing,Crushing! Woot your uber offensive now! Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 08-31-2005 09:15 AM

08-31-2005, 10:07 PM	#13
Vulking Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 301	Let me get this straight, since im a little slow.... CAs like Tremor and Protect are being turned into Trainings? If true then why in the hell did i spend plat on rubies to make these adept IIIs? __________________ Red One: "stay on topic.." Red Two: "I can't shake him!" Red One: "stay on topic.." Red Two: "There too close!.....ahhhhhhghh!!"

08-31-2005, 10:23 PM	#14
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792

08-31-2005, 10:43 PM	#15
Wado Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	No, they're still skills, the training is just a M2 upgrade to that skill - it would upgrade your Adp3.

08-31-2005, 10:54 PM	#16
Vulking Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 301	figured it out, not as bad as i thought. Message Edited by Hammarus on 09-02-2005 01:00 PM __________________ Red One: "stay on topic.." Red Two: "I can't shake him!" Red One: "stay on topic.." Red Two: "There too close!.....ahhhhhhghh!!"

08-31-2005, 11:33 PM	#17
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	Umm dude? Wakeup. What used to be the "Specialized Trainings" @ the '0' levels they were adept 2 quality, now they are master 2 quality. I don't see what there is to gripe about. Also, this has happened to skills throughout all of the levels. And its happening.....again..... I don't understand what you are freaking about. You keep all the same CA's although they are changing around a few, some for better some for worst, the specialized training does not take away from other skills and you only get to keep the one you choose. It simply upgrades the one you choose. And all this about "wasted plat" and such. It happens, all the time, think when you were leveling up. Dig In Adept3......1p....2days later, Specialized Training is better! Get that, oh man wasted 1pp. a week later fortified stance......adept3.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]....heh another wasted time into another skill. This has always been like this. Thats not what the fuss is about

09-01-2005, 04:50 PM	#18
R Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	Colossaltitan wrote: Umm dude? Wakeup. What used to be the "Specialized Trainings" @ the '0' levels they were adept 2 quality, now they are master 2 quality. I don't see what there is to gripe about. Also, this has happened to skills throughout all of the levels. And its happening.....again..... I don't understand what you are freaking about. You keep all the same CA's although they are changing around a few, some for better some for worst, the specialized training does not take away from other skills and you only get to keep the one you choose. It simply upgrades the one you choose. And all this about "wasted plat" and such. It happens, all the time, think when you were leveling up. Dig In Adept3......1p....2days later, Specialized Training is better! Get that, oh man wasted 1pp. a week later fortified stance......adept3.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]....heh another wasted time into another skill. This has always been like this. Thats not what the fuss is about Some training abilities had added bonus's to them don't forget.. Slate's Invigorating Threat gave bonus mitigation and so did Braksans. Sure training was only an "Adept II" quality of the existing spell, but that was only for the existing effects of what the spell already did. Simply upgrading our current spells to Master II quality isn't gonna give us those added qwerks. I don't really mind either way, but I've been seeing a lot of misinformed posts about the old training vs. the new. I honestly prefer the old training system because it gave me some added change to my skills, now its just the same but higher "quality," but I don't mind all too much about this new system.

09-01-2005, 10:26 PM	#19
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	all of those aren't gonig to be usefull anymoer neways (braskans, uthros deviant, etc..) just the latest ones u get is all that will be useful.

09-02-2005, 12:08 AM	#20
Yahk Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 18	OMG...So they are eliminating our haste? Thanks for getting rid of what little DPS we had. __________________

09-02-2005, 01:06 AM	#21
Airog Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 317	Changeing haste to Offensive stance, will be interesting to see if it adds or takes away DPS.

09-02-2005, 01:18 AM	#22
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	Colossaltitan wrote: IMO, is this really much of an offensive stance? I mean I don't care much b/c I'm not out their to deal the damg I am here to take it. But as far as an offensive stance goes, will this really up are DPS? I mean, The 72 STR increase isn't bad but on Live I can swap out my 2 +12 STA dolls for to +12STR, hit a STR Imbued ring for another what? Not sure on exact # and still not much of a noticable melee damg difference. The Piercing,Slashing,Crushing doesn't really mean much atleast on Live after fiddling around with Call to Battle & Fortified Stance (taking them on and off & auto-attacking).... Anyone else feel the same? Just wish I saw something more unique I suppose, rather than oh byebye to your defense, hello a little STR & oh...the unforgetable 13ish Piercing,Slashing,Crushing! Woot your uber offensive now! Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 08-31-2005 09:15 AM ^^Were my thoughts on that^^.

09-02-2005, 01:26 AM	#23
Airog Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 317	Yeah, doesn't seem as nice as the Haste, huh?

09-02-2005, 12:22 PM	#24
Sir_Halbarad Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 4 Bayle Court, South Qeynos Posts: 509	Maybe I was/am doing it wrong all the time, but I never use the Haste. The power drain is too high in my opinion. I spend my power for taunts, combat arts and buffs... /shrug __________________ Halbaradx - Guardian Dunamis - Splitpaw Dunamis is recruiting - visit us at www.dunamis-eq2.com Open Spots: Inquisitor \| Mystic \| Fury \| Sorcerer

09-02-2005, 12:47 PM	#25
blueduckie Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 259	I personally love the haste. With enchanter and normally a bard i my group i can hardly burn my power and hardened metallic hammer is alot of dps IMO well worth the small power every 30 sec. When dpsing i definately use it and i use it with htl currently for tons more procs. Very sexy to have wish they werent taking away its haste but lowering it. Even 10% haste would be fine

09-02-2005, 08:23 PM	#26
Airog Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 317	When you are DPS'ing, not tanking, Self Haste + FBSS +haste buffs from others, you can get a 2hand weapon delay down to make it so you hit once inbetween each Combat Art, which greatly ups your DPS form hitting once every two Combat Arts. Of course with .2seconds cast times, that will change.

09-02-2005, 10:36 PM	#27
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	I always use desperate rush in raiding. With mast1 crack or even adept3 u are fine on power. HTL, Desperate Rush, Hunker down (yes I still use it ) deafening in between and you can keep aggro better. the haste is nice and helpsw / it. but we wont need that for aggro control come expansion b/c HTL = When u get hit not when u hit.

09-03-2005, 01:11 AM	#28
Airog Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 317	Yeah, the new HTL spells seem pretty nice.

09-08-2005, 01:29 AM	#29
JNewby Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 644	Colossaltitan wrote: I always use desperate rush in raiding. With mast1 crack or even adept3 u are fine on power. HTL, Desperate Rush, Hunker down (yes I still use it ) deafening in between and you can keep aggro better. the haste is nice and helpsw / it. but we wont need that for aggro control come expansion b/c HTL = When u get hit not when u hit. eh u know hunker downs def buff doesnt stack right/

09-12-2005, 09:31 AM	#30
Dec Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Thanks for all the info folks __________________