So they changed our traits we pick again on beta. Trainings still gone, but old master2 list gone. Now, we pick a master2 spell at 14 and every 10 levels. See bottom of post for a list. All the traits below 44 seem useless at 60 in beta. Here is my review of 44 traits. <font color="#ffff00">Maddening Defense</font> - Get a new spell at 57 that does the same thing at 57 at adept1 quality, so adept3 would beat this. <font color="#ffff00">Desperate Rush</font> - Our offensive stance, not seeing an upgrade to this so still useable at 60 (when in DPS mode) <font color="#ffff00">Fortified Stance</font> - Upgrade to this at 58, beats fortified stance pretty badly at adept quality. <font color="#ffff00">Taunting Assa<font color="#ffff00">ul</font></font><font color="#ffff00">t</font> - Goading assault at 58 is an upgrade to this, and is much better. So as sad as this is for me to say, as a guardian with an eye at the end game (level 60), the only viable choice at level 44 is <font color="#ff3300">desperate rush. <font color="#ffffff">Every other spell I see an upgrade before 60, this one I do not. If I made a mistake and missed the upgrade, then ignore me... but unless someone points out this upgrade to me, it looks like desperate rush is the winner. <img src="http://www.thetunaman.com/eq2/guardTraits1-50.jpg"> </font></font> <div></div>

(desperate rush should get an upgrade at 58 but not seeing it anywhere.. wish I was 60 so I could look for myself). <div></div>

Thanks for the good info Tuna.

I was wondering myself where the desperate rush upgrade is... Following the "update every 14 levels" rule of thumb, we should get an upgrade at 58 as Tuna said. /confused... Any lvl 60 beta player able to shed some light? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

We got a wee bit shafted because of this 14 24 34 44 yeah

<div></div><div></div>I am 60 on beta and as far as I know there is no upgrade to Desperate Rush even though its a level 44 spell. That is kinda lame because of it being our offensive stance and our already lame dps. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Exill on <span class="date_text">08-30-2005</span> <span class="time_text">03:51 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Exill on <span class=date_text>08-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:05 AM</span>

Well keep us informed if they add one, if not 44 trainings is clear. Care to post or email me the 54 trainings so this list can be complete? <div></div>

<div></div>This is best that I could do. I tried to get screenshots of all the Master 2 stats but the thing started to glitch out on me and was turning all my spells into apprentice 1s. <img src="http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4831/training1cj.jpg"> Id say the choice is between Protect and Call of Defense.

<DIV>Thx for info folks =)</DIV>

Yah all of tunabash's spells that can be trained are app1, ghetto but meh <div></div>

Bad news. I don't know if I did not notice it before or if they just added this in recently but: I think this means that all our T5 trainings get upgraded at T6. <img src="http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/7558/desperatecharge4pq.jpg"> <div></div>

<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG src="http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/7558/desperatecharge4pq.jpg"><BR><BR>IMO, is this really much of an offensive stance? I mean I don't care much b/c I'm not out their to deal the damg I am here to take it.  But as far as an offensive stance goes, will this really up are DPS? I mean, The 72 STR increase isn't bad but on Live I can swap out my 2 +12 STA dolls for to +12STR, hit a STR Imbued ring for another what? Not sure on exact # and still not much of a noticable melee damg difference. The Piercing,Slashing,Crushing doesn't really mean much atleast on Live after fiddling around with Call to Battle & Fortified Stance (taking them on and off & auto-attacking)....<BR><BR>Anyone else feel the same?<BR>Just wish I saw something more unique I suppose, rather than oh byebye to your defense, hello a little STR & oh...the unforgetable 13ish Piercing,Slashing,Crushing!  Woot your uber offensive now! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Colossaltitan on <span class=date_text>08-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

<P>Let me get this straight, since im a little slow....  CAs like Tremor and Protect are being turned into Trainings?  If true then why in the hell did i spend plat on rubies to make these adept IIIs?</P>

<spent 2pp for tremor mast1 =X

No, they're still skills, the training is just a M2 upgrade to that skill - it would upgrade your Adp3.   <div></div>

<P>figured it out, not as bad as i thought.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class=date_text>09-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 PM</span>

Umm dude?<BR>Wakeup.<BR>What used to be the "Specialized Trainings" @ the '0' levels they were adept 2 quality, now they are master 2 quality.<BR>I don't see what there is to gripe about.<BR>Also, this has happened to skills throughout all of the levels.  And its happening.....again..... I don't understand what you are freaking about.<BR>You keep all the same CA's although they are changing around a few, some for better some for worst, the specialized training does not take away from other skills and you only get to keep the one you choose.  It simply upgrades the one you choose.  And all this about "wasted plat" and such.  It happens, all the time, think when you were leveling up.  Dig In Adept3......1p....2days later, Specialized Training is better! Get that, oh man wasted 1pp.  a week later fortified stance......adept3.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]....heh another wasted time into another skill.<BR><BR>This has always been like this. Thats not what the fuss is about <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Colossaltitan wrote:<BR> Umm dude?<BR>Wakeup.<BR>What used to be the "Specialized Trainings" @ the '0' levels they were adept 2 quality, now they are master 2 quality.<BR>I don't see what there is to gripe about.<BR>Also, this has happened to skills throughout all of the levels.  And its happening.....again..... I don't understand what you are freaking about.<BR>You keep all the same CA's although they are changing around a few, some for better some for worst, the specialized training does not take away from other skills and you only get to keep the one you choose.  It simply upgrades the one you choose.  And all this about "wasted plat" and such.  It happens, all the time, think when you were leveling up.  Dig In Adept3......1p....2days later, Specialized Training is better! Get that, oh man wasted 1pp.  a week later fortified stance......adept3.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]....heh another wasted time into another skill.<BR><BR>This has always been like this. Thats not what the fuss is about <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Some training abilities had added bonus's to them don't forget.. Slate's Invigorating Threat gave bonus mitigation and so did Braksans. Sure training was only an "Adept II" quality of the existing spell, but that was only for the existing effects of what the spell already did. Simply upgrading our current spells to Master II quality isn't gonna give us those added qwerks.</P> <P>I don't really mind either way, but I've been seeing a lot of misinformed posts about the old training vs. the new.</P> <P>I honestly prefer the old training system because it gave me some added change to my skills, now its just the same but higher "quality," but I don't mind all too much about this new system.</P>

all of those aren't gonig to be usefull anymoer neways (braskans, uthros deviant, etc..) just the latest ones u get is all that will be useful.

<P>OMG...So they are eliminating our haste?</P> <P>Thanks for getting rid of what little DPS we had.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

<DIV>Changeing haste to Offensive stance, will be interesting to see if it adds or takes away DPS.</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Colossaltitan wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><IMG src="http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/7558/desperatecharge4pq.jpg"><BR><BR>IMO, is this really much of an offensive stance? I mean I don't care much b/c I'm not out their to deal the damg I am here to take it.  But as far as an offensive stance goes, will this really up are DPS? I mean, The 72 STR increase isn't bad but on Live I can swap out my 2 +12 STA dolls for to +12STR, hit a STR Imbued ring for another what? Not sure on exact # and still not much of a noticable melee damg difference. The Piercing,Slashing,Crushing doesn't really mean much atleast on Live after fiddling around with Call to Battle & Fortified Stance (taking them on and off & auto-attacking)....<BR><BR>Anyone else feel the same?<BR>Just wish I saw something more unique I suppose, rather than oh byebye to your defense, hello a little STR & oh...the unforgetable 13ish Piercing,Slashing,Crushing!  Woot your uber offensive now! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Colossaltitan on <SPAN class=date_text>08-31-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:15 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>^^Were my thoughts on that^^.

Yeah, doesn't seem as nice as the Haste, huh?

Maybe I was/am doing it wrong all the time, but I never use the Haste. The power drain is too high in my opinion. I spend my power for taunts, combat arts and buffs... /shrug <div></div>

<DIV>I personally love the haste. With enchanter and normally a bard i my group i can hardly burn my power and hardened metallic hammer is alot of dps IMO well worth the small power every 30 sec. When dpsing i definately use it and i use it with htl currently for tons more procs. Very sexy to have wish they werent taking away its haste but lowering it. Even 10% haste would be fine</DIV>

When you are DPS'ing, not tanking, Self Haste + FBSS +haste buffs from others, you can get a 2hand weapon delay down to make it so you hit once inbetween each Combat Art, which greatly ups your DPS form hitting once every two Combat Arts. Of course with .2seconds cast times, that will change.

I always use desperate rush in raiding.  With mast1 crack or even adept3 u are fine on power. HTL, Desperate Rush, Hunker down (yes I still use it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) deafening in between and you can keep aggro better. the haste is nice and helpsw / it. but we wont need that for aggro control come expansion b/c HTL = When u get hit not when u hit.

Yeah, the new HTL spells seem pretty nice.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Colossaltitan wrote:<BR> I always use desperate rush in raiding.  With mast1 crack or even adept3 u are fine on power. HTL, Desperate Rush, Hunker down (yes I still use it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) deafening in between and you can keep aggro better. the haste is nice and helpsw / it. but we wont need that for aggro control come expansion b/c HTL = When u get hit not when u hit.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>eh u know hunker downs def buff doesnt stack right/</P> <P> </P>

<DIV>Thanks for all the info folks</DIV>