Tanking Changes

[Morrolan V]

<DIV>Last weekend, I tanked the front of Nizara with one healer.   Got through 4 names - when we had clean pulls, we basically never were at risk,  I got into orange on a couple of names.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night, I tanked all the way through Crypt of Valdoon and some in Mistmoore.  The group setup was roughly equivalent both times - me, pally, troub, chanter, healer, with a wizzy in one case and a ranger in the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was taking MORE and HARDER hits post-patch.  I was frequently in orange on the trash mobs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In particular, it does not appear to me that they fixed the issue with high end names ignoring avoidance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Illustrious]

<P>Yup welcome to SOEs vision of "fixing" avoidance tanking.  They lower our Avoidance and still keep mobs with high"to hit" valaues. Then just to rub a little salt in the wound they let plate tanks with their superior mitigation get the only avoidance check in the game that is not contested versus mobs skill.</P> <P> </P>

[Limoj]

<DIV>yea [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?</DIV>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Did you get a 2nd earring? Did you wear a cloak? How many AA do you have so far?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you have the god pet that gives 28 to a stat?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A:</DIV> <DIV>Your weaker than you were, yes. But you can become MUCH more powerfull then before.</DIV>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DynamicPerformance wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did you get a 2nd earring? Did you wear a cloak? How many AA do you have so far?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you have the god pet that gives 28 to a stat?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A:</DIV> <DIV>Your weaker than you were, yes. But you can become MUCH more powerfull then before.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes i had both mitigation earrings, yes i had a rare tradeskill cloak, i alrady had 6 aa's before i logge doff last night. And i got my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] beat down in Mm castle vs trash not named. This also happened in beta to a point. </P> <P>I alreayd feedbacked the issue. On one account lots of people are parsing avodiance as a whole as not checking each skill. More so avoidance is severly reduced vs higher lvl named heroics and epics. Reducing its effectiveness. While plates deal with this to a degree a mobs offensive skills does not reduce block. So i had a talk with lockeye today and he said he will look into the avodiance skill checks and said that a portion of deflection will be uncontested but was not ready for the patch. So avodiance tanking will be alot more meaningful soon.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 AM</span>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>While plates deal with this to a degree a mobs offensive skills does not reduce block. So i had a talk with lockeye today and he said he will look into the avodiance skill checks and said that a portion of deflection will be uncontested but was not ready for the patch. So avodiance tanking will be alot more meaningful soon.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wish he does. what I notice today is very interesting, I may be wrong so not taking it as seriously much but, tested slightly with a healer just with taunts, against one mob, avoidance looks finer (without any stuns or stiffles), but against two or more mobs (all of them has more hit rate each)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't want to mention in another SOE game, there was similar avoidance mechanics, if more than 4 over you, basically 5th and more hitting you without an avoidance check. I just hope it is not same bug here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 PM</span>

[Morrolan V]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DynamicPerformance wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did you get a 2nd earring? Did you wear a cloak? How many AA do you have so far?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you have the god pet that gives 28 to a stat?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A:</DIV> <DIV>Your weaker than you were, yes. But you can become MUCH more powerfull then before.</DIV> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, Yes, 6, Yes.</P> <P>The problem is real.</P> <P>Gungo, I am glad to hear that you were able to get in touch with Lockeye.  Something clearly is not right - whether it's missed checks or something in the way they did the fall off curve for avoidance against higher end content, or something else altogether.</P>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>I tanked MM fine :smileysad:  I'm having trouble understanding the problem I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In fact, I already got my avoidence to 72% grouped. And I generally tank with around 45% mit (with the Mountain stance up).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I havn't tanked ENOUGH mobs. I'll be sure to go out and tank some more tonight :smileyvery-happy:  Yes... must tank more mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mind listing what AA's you use to tank?</DIV>

[Gungo]

<P>Me personally 4/4/8/4 sta and 4/4/8/5/8 int so far only 5 in heal 1 in mit buff.</P> <P>i tanked acedemia, obelisk and valdoon well. So might i add the swashy who tanked the name on the beast tamer who mezzed me. </P> <P>The problem lies in yellow+ heroic mobs, + named, esecially epics.</P> <P>MM Castle not catacombs is the level generally, not including the solo mobs at entrance. clear the main hall and then start clearing downstairs in a group and keep an eye on how much you are avoiding. Its aprox 20%. Better yet try tanking a x2 epics up top and get a good laugh at being 1 shotted.  </P> <P> </P>

[lilmohi]

<P>I did a fairly decent job tanking last night but i did notice a few things that have changed:</P> <P>1.  Taunts were getting resisted much more, it wasn't unusual to get 2 consecutive resists to my M2 group taunt.</P> <P>2.  I seemed to be missing a lot more than i used to in defensive stance, which complicated the taunting process more.</P> <P>3. Mob encounters in EoF dungeons seemed to be much harder on the whole, i at least don't recall previously running into nearly as many trash encounters that had two ^^^ heroic mobs linked, or a ^^^ and 2-3 ^^ mobs.</P> <P>I'm spec'd out more for dps than tanking but i still tanked a couple named in the new obelisk instance w/o going much into the orange.</P>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lilmohi wrote:<BR> <P>I did a fairly decent job tanking last night but i did notice a few things that have changed:</P> <P>1.  Taunts were getting resisted much more, it wasn't unusual to get 2 consecutive resists to my M2 group taunt.<FONT color=#ffff33> M2 is the same resist % as M1, but yes skill buffs are increasingly more important. Oddly enough disruption helps us land our taunt. </FONT></P> <P>2.  I seemed to be missing a lot more than i used to in defensive stance, which complicated the taunting process more. <FONT color=#ffff33>This is also tied to the new skill ruleset. As people complained +skills had little meaning the new system makes +skills alot more important now. Its a catch 22 i suppose, but try midstance and you will notice alot less misses. (or group w a warden). The loss of skills in the def stance makes hitting mobs that much more problematic. </FONT></P> <P>3. Mob encounters in EoF dungeons seemed to be much harder on the whole, i at least don't recall previously running into nearly as many trash encounters that had two ^^^ heroic mobs linked, or a ^^^ and 2-3 ^^ mobs. <FONT color=#ffff33>This is true i call it the nizara syndrome and I like it. it makes crowd control more important and makes proximity pulling alot more important. In general it makes combat challenging, which is overall a good thing.</FONT></P> <P>I'm spec'd out more for dps than tanking but i still tanked a couple named in the new obelisk instance w/o going much into the orange.</P><FONT color=#ffff33>Dont feel bad i am more spec'd for tanking and get my rear beat too. I will just be happy when they fix deflection to be uncontested and work on named/epics when needed.</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Ok heres something I tested extensivly, caluculated till my head hurt, and finally decided on..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The final INT ability is worthless.  If a mob hits you once for X damage and it drops you to 30%, the next hit (even with the new mit) will kill you if it is the same amount.  I tested it on epics, I tested it on heroics. And having it added no survivability, or even more dps (kindof hard to stay below 30%  with epic aoe's, and healers who just don't understand).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, why do you have dps abilities selected when your trying to tank? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the way I am set up:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8/4/4/8/8 STA</DIV> <DIV>4/4/4/5/0 INT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5 sprint, 4 heal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOTE: I am on a pvp server, so some tanking must be sacrificed for PVP survivability (teleport, sprinting)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll be going deeper into MMC tonight, so we'll see how it all works out.</DIV>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DynamicPerformance wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok heres something I tested extensivly, caluculated till my head hurt, and finally decided on..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The final INT ability is worthless.  If a mob hits you once for X damage and it drops you to 30%, the next hit (even with the new mit) will kill you if it is the same amount.  I tested it on epics, I tested it on heroics. And having it added no survivability, or even more dps (kindof hard to stay below 30%  with epic aoe's, and healers who just don't understand).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, why do you have dps abilities selected when your trying to tank? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the way I am set up:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8/4/4/8/8 STA</DIV> <DIV>4/4/4/5/0 INT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5 sprint, 4 heal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOTE: I am on a pvp server, so some tanking must be sacrificed for PVP survivability (teleport, sprinting)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll be going deeper into MMC tonight, so we'll see how it all works out.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The reason i took 4/4/8/4 stamina and 4/4/8/5/8 was because in raid gear w a dirge i was max parry at 420 (previous cap) and 415 deflection (needed matron pants), i maxed proc and crit because those are the 2 biggest dps boosters and the final int ability seemed useful to me. I know several times i have been sitting in the red thanking the int ability for not letting me die that last hit. Under the new system 1400 mit raid buffed adds about ~1.5-2% mitigation. So we will see how it goes i still have some feedback and testing to finish on this expansion. </P> <P>My next topic will probably inculde turning retribution of stone from riposte to 20% of deflections after deflection becomes uncontested. </P>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Tested it. Dosn't work well enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tanked mistmore with it, It went ok.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Went back into mistmore without it, with the line up I said earlier, and it was a breeze. (similar group setup, we lost a dirge and got a troub)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also went in with a pally tanking in fully fabled armor and all mastered.  He got eaten up.  I ended up tanking.</DIV>

[Jobeson]

Ya know I have only been back for a week but from what I understand, being better than a paladin is not saying all that much.  <div></div>