GU60 PvP Changes now on TEST-COPY [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Olihin

05-16-2011, 09:05 PM

PvP SERVER UPDATES Armor <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo12">Rewards for this new campaign are in the form of Armor and Adornments. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo12">Adornments now include class focus effects and require a blue slot to equip. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo12">New armor allows for double blue slots and requires “Discord” faction to acquire. </li></ul> Reward Updates <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">There is no more "honorable" or "dishonorable" kills. You no longer need to wait until your victim is done fighting his monster, or wait for them to heal up before attacking them for credit. On the same note, watch your back when adventuring in open zones. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">You will get no credit for killing, or assisting in killing players who con grey or red to you. Nor will you lose infamy if you are only attacked by red and/or grey conning aggressors. Stick to targets in your level range for best results. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">You will get no credit for killing trial account players, nor will trial account players cause infamy loss if it is only trial account players who are the aggressors. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">Only untitled players will get added to the recent list, so you can kill a titled player over and over, until he loses his title then only once per 30 minutes. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">The rewards for a player kill will be shared evenly among all players who assisted in the kill and all members of all groups those players belong to. NOTE: This could reduce the individual share to 0 and will do so quickly when killing untitled targets. Infamy is awarded based on the rank of the victim, so aim for the highest titled targets you can find for best results. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">If a player dies, and is in PvP combat, the player will lose infamy, even if the victim dies from falling damage or from an NPC. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">Note: Large raids killing a single target will get each person 0 infamy since the split is too small with that many killers. And thus, 1v1 fights will yield the largest amount of infamy. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">Status is awarded like before but split amongst everyone participating. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">Faction rewards are unchanged. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3">Players still drop between 40% and 70% of the coin on hand and have a 20% chance of dropping a treasured item (if they have one). </li></ul> Infamy Updates <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo1">Infamy will now be on a limited ranking system. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo1">At the end of each season, the rankings will reset and a new season of hunting will begin with everyone </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo1">There will be chat messages with the amount of infamy/fame gained or lost whenever it is gained or lost. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo1">There is no multiplier for difference in rank when killing another player for infamy. Killing a hunter gives the same amount no matter what the killer's rank is. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo1">Exiles do not gain fame or infamy. They do not cause loss when killing others, nor do they take a share of rewards when assisting others. </li></ul> Interface Updates <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l6 level1 lfo2">Fame/Infamy bar: <ul type="circle"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l6 level2 lfo2">On a PvP server you can now select the "Show Fame" or "Show Infamy" option on your xp bar to watch your progress up (or down) the fame/infamy charts. You can see how close you are to getting a rank, or losing one and watch it go up and down as it progresses! </li></ul></li></ul> Mechanics Updates <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l8 level1 lfo4">Passive taunts and detaunts will no longer work in PVP Combat. </li></ul> <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level1 lfo5">PVP Potency: <ul type="circle"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level2 lfo5">This stat will increase your amount of damage, healing, runes etc while engaged in PVP combat. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level2 lfo5">Normal Potency will no longer provide a bonus while engaged in PVP combat. </li></ul> </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level1 lfo5">PVP Crit Bonus: <ul type="circle"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level2 lfo5">This applies instead of normal crit bonus when using hostile abilities or attacks on other players or beneficial abilities while in PVP combat. </li></ul> </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level1 lfo5">PVP Multi Attack: <ul type="circle"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level2 lfo5">This is your chance to get multiple autoattacks on a player, or player pet and does not work on NPCs. Additionally, normal multi attack will no longer work on players or player pets and only on NPCs. </li></ul> </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level1 lfo5">PVP Spell Multi Attack: <ul type="circle"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l4 level2 lfo5">This is your chance to have an attack spell hit a player, or player pet multiple times and does not affect spells cast on NPCs. Additionally, normal spell multi attack will no longer work on players or player pets and only on NPCs. </li></ul></li></ul> Mentoring <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">Mentored players can once again fight back if attacked in PVP. NOTE: If a player does not have the red outline around his name, he is likely mentored and you should not attack him. </li></ul> Writ and Warfield Rewards <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">Writs will now grant “Discord” faction. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">A tie and win will also grant “Discord” faction in a Warfield. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">Tokens and “Discord” faction can be used to earn the new PvP armor. </li></ul> Language <ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo7">You can now select what language your character is speaking on a PVP server and a Battleground server. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo7">You can speak common on a PVP server. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo7">On a pvp server you can use /shout and /say to communicate with the other team... assuming you are speaking a language they understand. </li><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo7">You can now use /say and /shout on a battleground server.</li></ul>Additional changes posted below and are now on TEST-COPY. PvP UPDATES PvP General <ul type="disc"><li>Fixed a bug where killing valid player targets would not give quest credit for player kill writs. NOTE: you will only get credit for kills that would award fame/infamy.</li><li>Cleaned up the messaging when losing fame/infamy when you had none to lose and gaining fame/infamy when you were at the cap.</li><li>Fixed a bug where the fame/infamy bar would show the wrong amount required for the next rank after the season changes.</li></ul> PvP Abilities <ul type="disc"><li>PVP Spell Multi Attack will be used when:<ul type="circle"><li>In a battleground on players and NPCs. </li><li>On a PVP server for any single target, or encounter AE spell cast on a player or player pet </li><li>On a heal cast while the healer or target is in PVP combat </li><li>On a "blue" AOE when the caster is in PVP combat. </li></ul></li><li>PVP Spell Multi Attack will only work on heals and damage spells.</li></ul> PvP Flying mounts <ul type="disc"><li>There is a 50% chance of being grounded if any player lands a hostile action while flying.</li><li>You must land to dismount a flying mount.</li><li>Your flying mount will automatically start flying on zone-in if you logged out or went linkdead while flying.</li></ul> PvP Mentoring <ul type="disc"><li>Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.</li><li>Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.</li><li>You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.</li></ul> PvP Rewards <ul type="disc"><li>PvP Writs and Warfield rewards will grant the new Discord faction. Discord faction is needed to purchase the new level 90 PvP Rewards and can only be obtained through writs and Warfield participation. </li><li>Players who are mentoring or grouped with players who are mentoring give no rewards when killed in PVP combat, nor do they earn any rewards when killing in PVP combat.</li></ul> Please make sure you are going to TEST-COPY and checking out the changes. We would appreciate if you can log in and provide feedback while we have the server set to the PvP Ruleset. Please post your comments and feedback here. Thank you!Olihin

Kimber

05-16-2011, 11:08 PM

Woot Everscout is back /sarc off This will greatly benefit those who solo allot. We need balance between group play and solo play I know it’s hard to do but we are headed back to Everscout or Soloquest on Naggy for PvP with this update. Guess open world PvP will be even more scarce than it already is. The 50% health thing has good points and bad points. Good cause if you get someone who runs away breaks combat and reengages at under 50 you will still get the update. Bad cause if you are out fighting a named in the open world and happen to drop to say 10% on a spike lil ranger or someone with decent range can pop ya one biggy and you are done and take the 10% armor hit to boot. Last I checked Raided up got you no update for PvP or status might have gotten infamy which I thought was rather odd but easy fix there just change it to no infamy and done so no big change there. Passive taunts no longer working in PvP combat hmm so are all the tanks getting new aa specifically for PvP or are we just talking procs off gear here. Yes I would go on test and check it out but I am currently on deployment and the connection here is barely good enough to play let alone DL the stuff I would need to get on Test. Updates for Groups V's SoloWhile I agree a Solo player should receive more for another Solo kill than a group killing said Solo kill and doing this is a good thing. From what I can see here most will dust off their scouts and roll solo as the rewards for going Solo are much better than going out with a group. I will say that this is better than what it used to be with the chest dropped tokens that made scouts the easiest to gear up. I can see the return of this and this will drive even more people into instances which is sad. I have some thoughts on how to increase the want/need for groups but I need to think them threw a bit before I put them up here.Edit to add in the above mentioned idea..... OK to make group play in open world PvP desirable maybe we should have Solo writs and Group writs for PvP. The Solo writs would net you the current status and tokens. The Group writ could possibly reward a few more tokens and a little more status. Just enough to make it worth it but not enough to unbalance things. Say currently 5 tokens and 10,000 status ( I know this is not the right number just using it as an example to keep it simple ) is what you get for a writ make that for the Solo writ and say 7 tokens and 12,500 status ) for group writs. Its just enough to make it worth while. As for the writ you could just use the currant poster that we all have as I know most of the time when I am going to go out and PvP with a group I make sure I have a full set and just have it trigger different if you are in a group. Not sure how hard that would be to program but I am thinking it would not be very difficult as we have group updates now.

Ilovecows

05-16-2011, 11:58 PM

Thank you for nerfing guardians most redeeming ability. They were way too OP before and really needed to be toned down. Not assassins/rangers/sks/any other OP class. Guardians really were the class that needed to be nerfed the most... right??

Notsovilepriest

05-17-2011, 03:02 AM

all classes were "nerfed" with the new pvp stats including the ones you listed. Im sorry tanks now once again have to work to lock people down like it was when it was fun and challenging to play a pvp tank

Kimber

05-17-2011, 03:29 AM

It wont effect some of us as much as others who rely on the passive taunts. I am just wondering if its the ones off gear procs or all of them. Or is it the ones we all get and the ones on gear will still work. Which is it or is it like I asked all of them which will mean allot more tab target hit taunt.... tab hit taunt.......tab hit taunt..... throw in some dps and start over again.

Notsovilepriest

05-17-2011, 03:57 AM

Its all until canceled taunts/detaunts at least didn't check temps

threat111

05-17-2011, 09:21 AM

/clap

Darkor

05-17-2011, 11:12 AM

That means the rogue passive detaunt doesnt work anymore in pvp? Time to re-roll classes!

Vlos

05-17-2011, 11:32 AM

I am a pvp'r but I actually don't like how they are making this game either PvE or PvP with gear. When Eq2 originally came out and I read that it was not going to have pvp I shy'd away from the game because I had no interest in just raiding or fighting mobs. For the first time ever I've started raiding, mainly for something new to do while the pvp changes were being worked on but with the addition of PvP-only stats (pot, cb, ma, etc..) I don't really see the point in continuing with PvE once this goes live. I really think they could have come up with a better system than to split the game into pvp or pve. I actually preferred the game a few years back when a set of MC armor, expert spells and an AA cap put players on a more equal playing field for their level. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />

Crismorn

05-17-2011, 02:56 PM

<cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for nerfing guardians most redeeming ability. They were way too OP before and really needed to be toned down. Not assassins/rangers/sks/any other OP class. Guardians really were the class that needed to be nerfed the most... right??</blockquote>You now have to press buttons to taunt, should be thrilled that now you are able to stand apart from those who cant press buttons.

BlueEternal

05-17-2011, 03:25 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo1">Exiles do not gain fame or infamy. They do not cause loss when killing others, nor do they take a share of rewards when assisting others. </li></ul> </blockquote>/sigh <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

dellaripa

05-17-2011, 03:48 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>all classes were "nerfed" with the new pvp stats including the ones you listed. Im sorry tanks now once again have to work to lock people down like it was when it was fun and challenging to play a pvp tank</blockquote>Perhaps we should also get rid of passive wards so maybe you actually have to press buttons to heal... This nerf is foolish. What was the only redeeming quality of an otherwise underpowered pvp class, and also a class defining ability is being removed due to overwhelming outcry. Meanwhile the other tank classes will still greatly outdamage, outmitigate and outheal guardians. Now they'll taunt equally well too. Will guardians get anything in return like a strikethrough immunity? Probably not.

Notsovilepriest

05-17-2011, 03:51 PM

<cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>all classes were "nerfed" with the new pvp stats including the ones you listed. Im sorry tanks now once again have to work to lock people down like it was when it was fun and challenging to play a pvp tank</blockquote>Perhaps we should also get rid of passive wards so maybe you actually have to press buttons to heal... This nerf is foolish. What was the only redeeming quality of an otherwise underpowered pvp class, and also a class defining ability is being removed due to overwhelming outcry. Meanwhile the other tank classes will still greatly outdamage, outmitigate and outheal guardians. Now they'll taunt equally well too. Will guardians get anything in return like a strikethrough immunity? Probably not. It sounds like a nightmare in the making for the few remaining guardians with the new lobby system. Remember the kid in 6th grade gym class who always got picked last?</blockquote>all for it if it means we can still heal trhoughthe dps being done if we are good. Only issue is if you take SL from shaman without giving them a way to mitigate interrupts then they will be useless

Notsovilepriest

05-17-2011, 03:53 PM

Also, guardians still have the most or tied for the most taunts of all fighters, if anything this is a buff, but it actually requires...dun dun dun, skill and thought

Cocytus

05-17-2011, 03:56 PM

<cite>Vlos@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a pvp'r but I actually don't like how they are making this game either PvE or PvP with gear. When Eq2 originally came out and I read that it was not going to have pvp I shy'd away from the game because I had no interest in just raiding or fighting mobs. For the first time ever I've started raiding, mainly for something new to do while the pvp changes were being worked on but with the addition of PvP-only stats (pot, cb, ma, etc..) I don't really see the point in continuing with PvE once this goes live. I really think they could have come up with a better system than to split the game into pvp or pve. I actually preferred the game a few years back when a set of MC armor, expert spells and an AA cap put players on a more equal playing field for their level. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>KOS was the golden age. PVP servers have pretty much been useless sense, as blue stat disparity destroyed balance. Now they are trying to put used bandaids on infected wounds.They've needed to strip blue stats off gear for like two years now :/ But this way they are doing it is probably the absolute worst they could do. Oh hey, we're taking blue stats away from gear! But we're putting it on PVP gear.

dellaripa

05-17-2011, 04:55 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, guardians still have the most or tied for the most taunts of all fighters, if anything this is a buff, but it actually requires...dun dun dun, skill and thought</blockquote>I'm sorry but guardians need a little something more than "the most or tied for the most taunts of all fighters" to make them remotely viable.

rothschild

05-17-2011, 05:26 PM

i assume buffs that increase multiattack chance will still work in pvp?

Ilovecows

05-17-2011, 08:03 PM

If passive taunts are being removed, then passive heals and dps should be removed as well. Using Notsoevilpriest's logic, they should have to press buttons to dps and heal.

Olihin

05-17-2011, 08:12 PM

<cite>rothschild wrote:</cite><blockquote>i assume buffs that increase multiattack chance will still work in pvp?</blockquote><ul><li>Critical Bonus</li><li>Potency</li><li>Multi Attack</li><li>Spell Multi Attack</li><li>Critical Mitigation</li></ul>Each of those stats will have the (PvP) stat working for them in AA, PvP Items and Spells. If you have a PvP item with the stats listed above and it does not have a (PvP) stat on it, then that is a bug and should be fixed. If your AA or Spells do not apply the PvP stat while in PvP combat, then that is also something we need to look at. If a proc or activatable ability is from a Non-PvP item then it would most likely NOT have the (PvP) stat on it and that is not a bug.Olihin

Aglorious

05-17-2011, 08:36 PM

Whats about PvP Crit Chance ? or can we still use pve crit chance ?

Ilovecows

05-17-2011, 08:38 PM

<cite>Aglorious@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whats about PvP Crit Chance ? or can we still use pve crit chance ?</blockquote>There is no pve and pvp crit chance. It is just crit chance. so any crit you get from pve gear will work in pvp and any you get from pvp gear will work in pve. Nothing else, though.

Greggthegrmreapr

05-17-2011, 10:52 PM

More changes that most people don't want. Instead of changing PvP over and over again trying to "fix" it and just making it worse, go back to when PvP was at its height and find out why. The things you keep doing are definitely not in that list.There will be no reason to do PvE content anymore in the open world as if you get caught in your PvE gear you are pretty much SOL and if you are out in your PvP gear then mobs will most likely tear you to pieces as most of the effects won't work in PvE. So basicly when you are trying to catch up to levels or AA you are screwed because you will have all the top tier folks running around in PvP gear killing the folks who don't have it or are trying to level over and over again because now there is no limit to how many times you can get something from them unless they lose their title.Also way to screw tanks.Sadly, I think it is getting to that point where I will be done with PvP. It hasn't really been fun for a long time and I hope and hope that they will make it better, but these changes don't seem like they will.

Ilovecows

05-17-2011, 10:55 PM

<cite>Denna@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>More changes that most people don't want. Instead of changing PvP over and over again trying to "fix" it and just making it worse, go back to when PvP was at its height and find out why. The things you keep doing are definitely not in that list.There will be no reason to do PvE content anymore in the open world as if you get caught in your PvE gear you are pretty much SOL and if you are out in your PvP gear then mobs will most likely tear you to pieces as most of the effects won't work in PvE. So basicly when you are trying to catch up to levels or AA you are screwed because you will have all the top tier folks running around in PvP gear killing the folks who don't have it or are trying to level over and over again because now there is no limit to how many times you can get something from them unless they lose their title.Also way to screw tanks.Sadly, I think it is getting to that point where I will be done with PvP. It hasn't really been fun for a long time and I hope and hope that they will make it better, but these changes don't seem like they will.</blockquote>A much better idea was the one that Peak and Dorsan proposed in a thread a little below this one.And they are really screwing guardians the most from this. I believe SKs the least.

Balrok

05-17-2011, 11:16 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mentoring<ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">Mentored players can once again fight back if attacked in PVP. NOTE: If a player does not have the red outline around his name, he is likely mentored and you should not attack him. </li></ul></blockquote>Please confirm why this needed to be changed. The current system works just fine as is and I strongly suggest you leave it. Mentoring is for PvE reasons and there are too many factors that will wreck lower tier PvP.

Wytie

05-17-2011, 11:30 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mentoring<ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">Mentored players can once again fight back if attacked in PVP. NOTE: If a player does not have the red outline around his name, he is likely mentored and you should not attack him. </li></ul></blockquote>Please confirm why this needed to be changed. The current system works just fine as is and I strongly suggest you leave it. Mentoring is for PvE reasons and there are too many factors that will wreck lower tier PvP.</blockquote>Because fame will matter, and they just couldnt help but to give people a reason to exploit it.You know just as well as I do how quick this will be figured out how to be exploited and completely ruin pvp for lower levels who like fame till the next update.......I personally knew the mentor change was the most fail I have seen in a long time.Think about it, you know have to have pvp and pve gear, but they want mentors to be able to fight back like it would matter if they are doing pve stuff anyway, because if they are mentored doing pve stuff then they wont have pvp gear on and if they dont have pvp gear on they get destroyed with pve mobs on them anyway.This is the worse and most ignorant change ever, and it makes it even worse how they forced gear seperation, like a player who is mentored doing pve stuff with pve gear would have a freakn chance in pvp anyway. HAHAHAHAHA

Balrok

05-18-2011, 12:18 AM

The mentor change needs to be reversed back.. end of story. The purpose of mentoring is to help someone in PvE... cause it's freak'n so over powered and not even closed to scaled down correctly. I even suggested that once mentored you gain/lose no fame to help, but it's still a dumb idea and not enough. If you get attacked while mentored... deal with it and die or zone, cause your are not suppose to be there for PvP reasons.Group of T4 fame huggers head out.... "Hey, bring your PvP decked out 90 templar to heal us!" Blam, T4 fame group is unkillable. Everyone AoEs... the mentored healer or whatever is going to be PvP hit.Don't introduce this... you're going to have enough to deal with then play PvP cop on this change.... actually, just disable all fame gains and loses from mentored players and keep them "unable to fight back"... done deal.

Ilovecows

05-18-2011, 01:26 AM

Is there any chance of getting AOE auto attacks fixed? They are able to hit reds in pvp which is a bad thing, and with this dumb mentoring pvp change they will be able to hit them to. Can this be fixed?

Killque

05-18-2011, 01:35 AM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mentoring<ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo6">Mentored players can once again fight back if attacked in PVP. NOTE: If a player does not have the red outline around his name, he is likely mentored and you should not attack him. </li></ul>Thank you!Olihin</blockquote>I am curious to know about some specific scenarios concerning the proposed mentoring change (I appologize, I do not have the ability to try these on test myself, perhaps some other forum members could). Scenario: Level 90 Pally groups up with 5 other 39s and mentors down. Mentored Pally places Amends on a 39 warden in his group. This group participates in level 39 PvP/Warfields.Questions:<ol><li>Are the non-mentored members allowed to engage in PvP while the 90 is mentored in their group?</li><li>Are opposing players allowed to attack this group without the 90 being able to engage (assuming no one engages the mentored player specificlly).</li><li>If players attack the Warden that has Amends, is there a chance that the Pally will gain hate and be accidently attacked?</li></ol>Scenario: Level 90 Mystic groups up with 5 other 39s and mentors down. This group participates in level 39 PvP/Warfields.Questions:<ol><li>Can the mentored Mystic cast benifitial spells on his team mates during PvP combat (aka heal etc)?</li><li>Prior to engaging in combat, can the Mentored Mystic, with Deadly Baneward gear pre cast group and single target ward on group tank, then the 39 tank engages in pvp which will trigger the Bane Ward proc?</li><li>Can the mentored Mystic resurect players while the group is engaged in PvP combat?</li></ol>There are several other questions that could be asked about various passive buffs etc but I limited it to these two. Others could be Chimes, Perfection, DeathMarch etc etc.

Killque

05-18-2011, 01:36 AM

<cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is there any chance of getting AOE auto attacks fixed? They are able to hit reds in pvp which is a bad thing, and with this dumb mentoring pvp change they will be able to hit them to. Can this be fixed?</blockquote>I AE all the time in the presence of Reds, and it never hits them. They fixed this long ago. The better question is, will it hit mentored players as per my question above?

Ilovecows

05-18-2011, 01:46 AM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is there any chance of getting AOE auto attacks fixed? They are able to hit reds in pvp which is a bad thing, and with this dumb mentoring pvp change they will be able to hit them to. Can this be fixed?</blockquote>I AE all the time in the presence of Reds, and it never hits them. They fixed this long ago. The better question is, will it hit mentored players as per my question above?</blockquote>I am not talking about regular aoe CAs or spells. Those don't hit reds. But AE auto attacks (not CAs or spells) do still hit red players, unless they fixed that recently and I didn't notice...

OzNeK

05-18-2011, 03:44 AM

Not rly sure that i am in place for this post butWhat about fixing assassins/rangers ? They are most overpowered pvp class in eq2 for now and they MUST be nerfed for name of the balance of eq2 =)

Wolfsight

05-18-2011, 07:08 AM

Checked out test last 2 nights PvP had some glimpses of good fights but some things are very broken right now.Mentoring Don't let the changes go through or it will be the end of lower level PvP below 90 if you throw in 90s mentored down to t4 or level 70 groups. Asked an sk to mentor down to 40 to see how I would fair on my 39 fury and was quickly chain healing to even stay up this wasn't even a full burn by the SK. The first few spells I used to engage got them from 100% to 97% then could only keep on healing.Damage to Heal This is how I expected it when I saw the update notes and reminds me alot of SF pretoughness fix good luck killing a healer since they are near invincible. First damage has been scaled down drastically to the point most things were hitting in the 100s. Rough examples were dot ticks from Acid hitting for 95, Dark Pyre for 120, Dark Siphioning (single target) 200, Apoc (single target) 500. My hardest hitting single target spell Plaguebringer was hitting for about 1.5k - 2k with 700 per tick.Heals however have not been reduced at all unless you count the universal drop in PvP potency and PvP crit bonus so they are still hitting for around live numbers. Alot of the blame comes down to the stupidly high crit mit on test currently not allowing any damage to crit yet heals still do.Had a fight with a warden to test damage output to heal and the fight would have lasted till one of us went out of power best spike I got to was about 25% that was with temps, focused casting for sda, timing stuns / interupts and the big hitters up just couldn't get much lower before it got healed up. At the same time magi shielding and ward of the sages kept me at 100% nearly the whole time with any damage that did get through healed by Dark Siphioning or Mending adorns.From the limited number of classes I have been able to fight on test copy damage seems to vary but the hardest I was hit for was about 2k in one go (4k doubled) from a wizzy ice comet the lowest coming from a necro that soulrotted me for a grand total of 4 damage per tick followed by pandemic by the same necro for 7 damage didn't check the gear but so I don't know much on that but really 4 damage ?AA Spells Can only comment on manashield and manaburn for now not had the classes online to get a wide number of classes.Manashield has gotten a boost thanks to DoV adding alot more power due to int along with the reduction in damage makes it add quite alot more health didn't have anyone able to burn through it the whole time except once which comes to the next point.Manaburn is hitting way to hard currently on test compared to other spells. 2k coming from ice comet was dwarfed by Manaburn when it hit me for 16k now this varies depending on how much health you have.Gear Seperation See thread with Dorsan and Peak imo sounds like a good idea !Conclusion Need more people on test copy for more varied classes to fight from what I have seen on test alot of things need adjusting for there to be balance still.

EQ2Player

05-18-2011, 09:56 AM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul type="disc"><li style="COLOR: black; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo7">On a pvp server you can use /ooc, /shout and /say to communicate with the other team... assuming you are speaking a language they understand. </li></ul></blockquote> Folks, really: When are developers finally going to quit allowing forums to be their primary way of listening to their playerbase. A vast majority of your players do not come here and voice feedback, or have the time and inclination to do so. You're developing on skewed, biased information. It is high-time a developer changed directions and started doing in-game polls and data-gathering to get a better per account sampling of what folks want and do-not want. The above quoted item, for example. This is the product of listening to the young loud-mouth crowd too much. A good number of your players won't want to hear the constant garbage that will be spewed into these channels. Please consider making this a global toggle. Using the /ignore is annoying and requires micromanagement. Plus, then you have to ignore the person on your own "Team/City" too or you'll just be hearing half of the lame conversation.EDIT:Or just make a new /smack channel for all the smack talk.

Olihin

05-18-2011, 02:21 PM

In case you missed the new changes now on TEST-COPYPvP UPDATES PvP General <ul type="disc"><li>Fixed a bug where killing valid player targets would not give quest credit for player kill writs. NOTE: you will only get credit for kills that would award fame/infamy.</li><li>Cleaned up the messaging when losing fame/infamy when you had none to lose and gaining fame/infamy when you were at the cap.</li><li>Fixed a bug where the fame/infamy bar would show the wrong amount required for the next rank after the season changes.</li></ul> PvP Abilities <ul type="disc"><li>PVP Spell Multi Attack will be used when:<ul type="circle"><li>In a battleground on players and NPCs. </li><li>On a PVP server for any single target, or encounter AE spell cast on a player or player pet </li><li>On a heal cast while the healer or target is in PVP combat </li><li>On a "blue" AOE when the caster is in PVP combat. </li></ul></li><li>PVP Spell Multi Attack will only work on heals and damage spells.</li></ul> PvP Flying mounts <ul type="disc"><li>There is a 50% chance of being grounded if any player lands a hostile action while flying.</li><li>You must land to dismount a flying mount.</li><li>Your flying mount will automatically start flying on zone-in if you logged out or went linkdead while flying.</li></ul> PvP Mentoring <ul type="disc"><li>Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.</li><li>Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.</li><li>You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.</li></ul> PvP Rewards <ul type="disc"><li>PvP Writs and Warfield rewards will grant the new Discord faction. Discord faction is needed to purchase the new level 90 PvP Rewards and can only be obtained through writs and Warfield participation. </li><li>Players who are mentoring or grouped with players who are mentoring give no rewards when killed in PVP combat, nor do they earn any rewards when killing in PVP combat.</li></ul> Olihin

Balrok

05-18-2011, 03:24 PM

Neskonlith

05-18-2011, 03:33 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>In case you missed the new changes now on TEST-COPYPvP UPDATESPvP General<ul type="disc"><li>Fixed a bug where killing valid player targets would not give quest credit for player kill writs. NOTE: you will only get credit for kills that would award fame/infamy.</li><li>Cleaned up the messaging when losing fame/infamy when you had none to lose and gaining fame/infamy when you were at the cap.</li><li>Fixed a bug where the fame/infamy bar would show the wrong amount required for the next rank after the season changes.</li></ul>PvP Abilities<ul type="disc"><li>PVP Spell Multi Attack will be used when:<ul type="circle"><li>In a battleground on players and NPCs. </li><li>On a PVP server for any single target, or encounter AE spell cast on a player or player pet </li><li>On a heal cast while the healer or target is in PVP combat </li><li>On a "blue" AOE when the caster is in PVP combat. </li></ul></li><li>PVP Spell Multi Attack will only work on heals and damage spells.</li></ul>PvP Flying mounts<ul type="disc"><li>There is a 50% chance of being grounded if any player lands a hostile action while flying.</li><li>You must land to dismount a flying mount.</li><li>Your flying mount will automatically start flying on zone-in if you logged out or went linkdead while flying.</li></ul>PvP Mentoring<ul type="disc"><li>Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.</li><li>Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.</li><li>You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.</li></ul>PvP Rewards<ul type="disc"><li>PvP Writs and Warfield rewards will grant the new Discord faction. Discord faction is needed to purchase the new level 90 PvP Rewards and can only be obtained through writs and Warfield participation. </li><li>Players who are mentoring or grouped with players who are mentoring give no rewards when killed in PVP combat, nor do they earn any rewards when killing in PVP combat.</li></ul>Olihin</blockquote><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />Looks interesting, and thanks for adding more risk to the game with the mentoring change! Lowbies can't faceroll with impunity, they need to stay awake now!Never being allowed to defend yourself when mentored was a silly restriction.

Balrok

05-18-2011, 03:35 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote> PvP Flying mounts <ul type="disc"><li>There is a 50% chance of being grounded if any player lands a hostile action while flying.</li><li>You must land to dismount a flying mount.</li><li>Your flying mount will automatically start flying on zone-in if you logged out or went linkdead while flying</li></ul> </blockquote>Good "start" to attemtping to fix Flying mounts. Thanks

Olihin

05-18-2011, 03:39 PM

Balrok

05-18-2011, 03:39 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Never being allowed to defend yourself when mentored was a silly restriction.</blockquote>No it's not... your defence is to [Removed for Content] of where you are and away from PvP. You'll see your OP mentored stats/gear will keep you afloat with plenty of time to find a zone out. You can't balance mentored abilities/gear correctly in PvP combat. It will be expolited.

Wolfsight

05-18-2011, 03:49 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Never being allowed to defend yourself when mentored was a silly restriction.</blockquote>No it's not... your defence is to [Removed for Content] of where you are and away from PvP. You'll see your OP mentored stats/gear will keep you afloat with plenty of time to find a zone out. You can't balance mentored abilities/gear correctly in PvP combat. It will be expolited.</blockquote>This,People also seem to forget that at one time you were able to attack while mentored it was changed to the way it is on live because mentoring isn't balanced compared to someone really that level. This was back at the start of the server since then the game has evolved alot more with gear and aa it is even more unbalanced than it was back then.

Balrok

05-18-2011, 03:55 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>The changes are just extras to a system that is used by few in open or contested zones. </blockquote>Cause mentoring is for PvE reasons and currently limits PvP. It's used by the few that are PL'ing or "helping" lower level toons progress in PvE. So yes, the system is currently being "used by few" on a PvP server. This extra change you are adding will change this "few" to "many". Basically you are opening a can of worms to many for these few.Mentoring is a nice system for PvE.... but anyone will tell you that someone mentored is almost unkillable by any mob evenly con'ed. Any decently geared mentored player is superior in all ways to even the top geared players at that level. How can you balance PvP against a mentored player. You can't... you'll basically see players accidently hitting the mentored players and get owned. Why introduce this to an entire PvP server for a few that use it for PvE?

dellaripa

05-18-2011, 04:09 PM

Olihin, I see no mention in your recent update regarding passive taunts. Could you please elaborate on what your plans are concerning this. I know there are a few guardians who have invested a tremendous amount of time and effort on their characters who are very interested (and concerned) about their future viability.Thanks.

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 04:20 PM

Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.

dellaripa

05-18-2011, 04:39 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>/sigh. How can I not reroll after such a well thought out and insightful response? You're really forcing my hand here...

Olihin

05-18-2011, 04:40 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>The changes are just extras to a system that is used by few in open or contested zones. </blockquote>Cause mentoring is for PvE reasons and currently limits PvP. It's used by the few that are PL'ing or "helping" lower level toons progress in PvE. So yes, the system is currently being "used by few" on a PvP server. This extra change you are adding will change this "few" to "many". Basically you are opening a can of worms to many for these few.Mentoring is a nice system for PvE.... but anyone will tell you that someone mentored is almost unkillable by any mob evenly con'ed. Any decently geared mentored player is superior in all ways to even the top geared players at that level. How can you balance PvP against a mentored player. You can't... you'll basically see players accidently hitting the mentored players and get owned. Why introduce this to an entire PvP server for a few that use it for PvE?</blockquote>Yes, the mentoring will perhaps encourage more mentoring from those that previously hesitated to do so in open or contested zones. This is good for many players that often find themselves trying to complete quests in low populated areas. Giving the mentor the ability to fight back, will increase population in those areas and add targets for hunters as well. With every change, the risk of players using it to their advantage is always there. The extra time to make additional changes, other then just turning it on, is an effort to prevent as much of it as possible. The only factor that we have no control over is the time it will take for new players to learn how to avoid "accidents". At the same time, it will take a bit more awareness on the players part to make sure their targets are not mentored.Olihin

S3V3R3NC3

05-18-2011, 04:47 PM

When you are dismounted from your flying mount in pvp will you lose your mount completely or just be forced to the ground?It would seem unfair to lose your mount completely as your runspeed would then be at a fraction of the players on ground mounts. Since ground mounts are not dismounted with a 50% chance I surely hope our flying mounts will at least be able to be used as ground mounts once "dismounted".

Ilovecows

05-18-2011, 04:58 PM

<cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Olihin, I see no mention in your recent update regarding passive taunts. Could you please elaborate on what your plans are concerning this. I know there are a few guardians who have invested a tremendous amount of time and effort on their characters who are very interested (and concerned) about their future viability.Thanks.</blockquote>QFE, just incase it was missed.

Balrok

05-18-2011, 05:34 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, the mentoring will perhaps encourage more mentoring from those that previously hesitated to do so in open or contested zones. This is good for many players that often find themselves trying to complete quests in low populated areas. Giving the mentor the ability to fight back, will increase population in those areas and add targets for hunters as well. With every change, the risk of players using it to their advantage is always there. The extra time to make additional changes, other then just turning it on, is an effort to prevent as much of it as possible. The only factor that we have no control over is the time it will take for new players to learn how to avoid "accidents". At the same time, it will take a bit more awareness on the players part to make sure their targets are not mentored.Olihin</blockquote>This does not effect PvE servers, and I promise you most of the community on Nagafen does not go back and mentor to complete quests in open or contested zones. They stay their level and plow thru them if desired, since quest/aa exp is the same, mentored or not. Killing names is a different story, but not these quests you're referring to. I also can say with pretty much certainty that everyone that "starts" mentoring is doing it for PvP reasons and will expolit it.For your second part, obviously we'll adapt to the change. We have to and good players will. That's not my point. My point is there is far, far more issues with this change then not... so why change a system that the server as a whole does not have an issue with and does not desire to see an issue with it introduced.

S3V3R3NC3

05-18-2011, 05:41 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, the mentoring will perhaps encourage more mentoring from those that previously hesitated to do so in open or contested zones. This is good for many players that often find themselves trying to complete quests in low populated areas. Giving the mentor the ability to fight back, will increase population in those areas and add targets for hunters as well. With every change, the risk of players using it to their advantage is always there. The extra time to make additional changes, other then just turning it on, is an effort to prevent as much of it as possible. The only factor that we have no control over is the time it will take for new players to learn how to avoid "accidents". At the same time, it will take a bit more awareness on the players part to make sure their targets are not mentored.Olihin</blockquote>This does not effect PvE servers, and I promise you most of the community on Nagafen does not go back and mentor to complete quests in open or contested zones. They stay their level and plow thru them if desired, since quest exp is the same, mentored or not. Killing names is a different story, but not these quests you're referring to. I also can say with pretty much certainty that everyone that "starts" mentoring is doing it for PvP reasons and will expolit it.For your second part, obviously we'll adapt to the change. We have to and good players will. That's not my point. My point is there is far, far more issues with this change then not... so why change a system that the server as a whole does not have an issue with and does not desire to see an issue with it introduced.</blockquote>He is completely right, as I discussed in my mentoring pvp thread, this is going to benefit 1% of the the server population while completely screwing 100% of the level lockers.It WILL be used to exploit 99% of the time and it will help some random person who wants to quest at lvl 15 on a 90 1% of the time. This change is completely not needed and not at all in the spirit of this pvp update, (that is assuming the pvp update is to make pvp better across all tiers) it is simply making it worse.

Corydonn

05-18-2011, 05:43 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 05:48 PM

I've always been under the mindset that I'm fine with being taunt locked as long as I can look back and realize that the person who did lock me down actually used his abilities and knew what he was doing "players like Corydonn, etc.." instead of having random force locks proc off ae's/spamming random ca's. ie. Almost every other fighter in eq2.

Talathion

05-18-2011, 05:48 PM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.

Corydonn

05-18-2011, 05:52 PM

<cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.</blockquote>That's if I turned it on and wanted people to attack me, There is a time when people targeting you always is good, And sometimes it's bad.... But Ehh.... I sppose with how much DPS is neutured, Passive taunts might have been out of hand... But still maybe not with a 20-30 second limiter!

Talathion

05-18-2011, 05:53 PM

Limiters are pretty stupid.a limiter should be 5 seconds, max, for everything.30 seconds is along time for PvP... lol

dellaripa

05-18-2011, 05:55 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've always been under the mindset that I'm fine with being taunt locked as long as I can look back and realize that the person who did lock me down actually used his abilities and knew what he was doing "players like Corydonn, etc.." instead of having random force locks proc off ae's/spamming random ca's. ie. Almost every other fighter in eq2.</blockquote>Then you must be for removal of all buffs in pvp. How's that for failed logik?

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 05:57 PM

<cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.</blockquote>I fully understand that you would have no idea if someone is actually good at this game since you have zero basis for comparisson but rest assured Corydonn is an extremely good player who will still be head and shoulders above pretty much every other fighter in eq2 after this change because *gasp* he actually understands his toon and has more then a vague clue about the other 23 classes which is pretty much the backbone of being good at any game

Talathion

05-18-2011, 05:58 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.</blockquote>I fully understand that you would have no idea if someone is actually good at this game since you have zero basis for comparisson but rest assured Corydonn is an extremely good player who will still be head and shoulders above pretty much every other fighter in eq2 after this change because *gasp* he actually understands his toon and has more then a vague clue about the other 23 classes which is pretty much the backbone of being good at any game</blockquote>If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?

Corydonn

05-18-2011, 05:59 PM

<cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Limiters are pretty stupid.a limiter should be 5 seconds, max, for everything.30 seconds is along time for PvP... lol</blockquote>Once every 30 seconds per passive proc would still save lives. It does with the Banshee Hoop already.

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 06:00 PM

<cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've always been under the mindset that I'm fine with being taunt locked as long as I can look back and realize that the person who did lock me down actually used his abilities and knew what he was doing "players like Corydonn, etc.." instead of having random force locks proc off ae's/spamming random ca's. ie. Almost every other fighter in eq2.</blockquote>Then you must be for removal of all buffs in pvp. How's that for failed logik?</blockquote>No, I am for removing procs that can stop other players frm playing their toon simply by pressing Tab 1 and whatever else you wanna toss in their and pretending like its some sort of art.Also, you will not get very far with me on the whole dropping all ward/heal procs as well because it would not phase me in the least and I'd probably support it.

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 06:03 PM

<cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.</blockquote>I fully understand that you would have no idea if someone is actually good at this game since you have zero basis for comparisson but rest assured Corydonn is an extremely good player who will still be head and shoulders above pretty much every other fighter in eq2 after this change because *gasp* he actually understands his toon and has more then a vague clue about the other 23 classes which is pretty much the backbone of being good at any game</blockquote>If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?</blockquote>I appreciate and enjoy playing with and against very good players as it allows me to gauge where I am and what I can work on, this must be difficult for you to grasp as you pretty much do the exact opposite by rolling FoTM classes and avoiding going against skilled players at all costs "which is a good idea since you are mediocre at best"

Talathion

05-18-2011, 06:04 PM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Limiters are pretty stupid.a limiter should be 5 seconds, max, for everything.30 seconds is along time for PvP... lol</blockquote>Once every 30 seconds per passive proc would still save lives. It does with the Banshee Hoop already.</blockquote>Banshee Hoop made me scream like a banshee in pvp because of AE autoattack.

Talathion

05-18-2011, 06:06 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.</blockquote>I fully understand that you would have no idea if someone is actually good at this game since you have zero basis for comparisson but rest assured Corydonn is an extremely good player who will still be head and shoulders above pretty much every other fighter in eq2 after this change because *gasp* he actually understands his toon and has more then a vague clue about the other 23 classes which is pretty much the backbone of being good at any game</blockquote>If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?</blockquote>I appreciate and enjoy playing with and against very good players as it allows me to gauge where I am and what I can work on, this must be difficult for you to grasp as you pretty much do the exact opposite by rolling FoTM classes and avoiding going against skilled players at all costs "which is a good idea since you are mediocre at best"</blockquote>Whats a FOTM Class?Brawler?

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 06:22 PM

<cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good guards will still be viable, just as they have always been.If you can press buttons then you will be fine, if you cant then yeah I'd suggest rerolling.Passive taunts are stupid and nothing close to the same as ward/heal/dmg procs as none of those 3 force me into a position where I can no longer play MY toon.</blockquote>Passive taunts would have probably been way less effective in Velious with the new AAs that offer groupwide taunt immunity for Bards and Warriors. Still I would prefer to see them put back in with some sort of limiter, Otherwise my taunts >>>>> Any other taunts.</blockquote>Enless your fighting an SK, then your taunts do nothing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />err.. his doing something was just autoattack, Brawlers Autoattack has a +50% chance to target lock you.</blockquote>I fully understand that you would have no idea if someone is actually good at this game since you have zero basis for comparisson but rest assured Corydonn is an extremely good player who will still be head and shoulders above pretty much every other fighter in eq2 after this change because *gasp* he actually understands his toon and has more then a vague clue about the other 23 classes which is pretty much the backbone of being good at any game</blockquote>If you love him so much, why don't you marry him?</blockquote>I appreciate and enjoy playing with and against very good players as it allows me to gauge where I am and what I can work on, this must be difficult for you to grasp as you pretty much do the exact opposite by rolling FoTM classes and avoiding going against skilled players at all costs "which is a good idea since you are mediocre at best"</blockquote>Whats a FOTM Class?Brawler?</blockquote>Flavor of the month class.It's basically why you betray and/or reroll so often

Balrok

05-18-2011, 06:27 PM

dam you guys for detrailing my PvP mentor dialog with pages of quotes within quotes within quotes.... about a much needed change. Adding skill back into the taunting skill is a great thing to separate the mindless button mashing tanks with the good ones.

Olihin

05-18-2011, 06:40 PM

To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin

Balrok

05-18-2011, 06:47 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Olihin</blockquote>Awesome post.. sticky this for future reference, cause you hit it on the head.

Corydonn

05-18-2011, 06:51 PM

It's still my opinion the complete removal of passive taunts is taking more skill/levels of play away from the game than it is adding... Plus it's also two buffs to my already powerful class that I don't really think is needed. Oh well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Edit: Also, Most of the bad passive taunts were only triggered by the other team making mistakes. You could avoid darn nearly all of them with communication.

Ilovecows

05-18-2011, 06:52 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>So all passive abilities are being disabled from pvp now? Not just taunts?

Corydonn

05-18-2011, 07:00 PM

<cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>So all passive abilities are being disabled from pvp now? Not just taunts?</blockquote>It kinda makes me laugh a bit, Should illusionists be constantly pressing buff buttons to boost my autoattack damage by 2.5x? Should dirges and priests be pressing buttons to increase my mitigation by 20%? Should SKs and Paladins be pressing combos to keep their fear immunity, Or Brawlers their Strikethrough immunity?

Talathion

05-18-2011, 07:15 PM

This change was just a huge nerf to guardian. :/

Ilovecows

05-18-2011, 07:16 PM

<cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>This change was just a huge nerf to guardian. :/</blockquote>It was a nerf to every tank, although they were the ones hit the hardest.

Crismorn

05-18-2011, 07:34 PM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>So all passive abilities are being disabled from pvp now? Not just taunts?</blockquote>It kinda makes me laugh a bit, Should illusionists be constantly pressing buff buttons to boost my autoattack damage by 2.5x? Should dirges and priests be pressing buttons to increase my mitigation by 20%? Should SKs and Paladins be pressing combos to keep their fear immunity, Or Brawlers their Strikethrough immunity?</blockquote>Yeah but none of those abilities stops the opposing player from controlling their toon, its a dumb mechanic.eq2 is the only game where taunts force players into positions where they cannot control their own toon.Tbh I would be fine with leaving taunt procs/passive taunts if they added taunt immunity signets for status/gold like every other cc ability in game has as a counterpart.

Talathion

05-18-2011, 07:37 PM

The mechanic is genius, it actually makes a tank.. a tank!

Balrok

05-18-2011, 09:26 PM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote>It kinda makes me laugh a bit, Should illusionists be constantly pressing buff buttons to boost my autoattack damage by 2.5x? Should dirges and priests be pressing buttons to increase my mitigation by 20%? Should SKs and Paladins be pressing combos to keep their fear immunity, Or Brawlers their Strikethrough immunity?</blockquote>I'm not following you here. These are all "buffs", where a taunt is an ability. Actually, it's a Crowd Control ability. So I would reword the above for passive taunts with, "Should illusionists have an until cancel buff that triggers a mez/stun/stifle/daze target or group encounter when hit or attacking?" Of course any one of these would not be as big of a deal since they have Immunities. Taunt, Snare and Knock Back are they only Crowd Control abilities in the game that do not have an Immunity timer. Tanks get 2 of the 3.just to be perfectly honestly... I don't care either way. I should support having passive taunts, cause it allows me to hide behind a tank easier. But that doesn't mean I still don't think passive anything are a good thing. More skill in this game is cool.

Balrok

05-18-2011, 09:38 PM

I don't think there is much arguement that the best guard ever was Broncas. I know he played the class like this....Spec/Gear Purely defensive and to absorb damage (pure meat shield)Group with good healers/dps (Guard is a group based tank)Run around Taunting people (Not just taunt sometimes, not just taunt in between CAs/Auto Attack... taunt all the time and taunt everyone, not just the other groups tank... everyone.)That is a good tank and how I want to see them played. I don't want them to be insane DPS that auto taunts people without any knowledge they are even taunting.

Killque

05-19-2011, 02:00 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tbh I would be fine with leaving taunt procs/passive taunts if they added taunt immunity signets for status/gold like every other cc ability in game has as a counterpart.</blockquote>The Legacy PvP Merchant sells such an item (where you buy Pumice Stones and Discord items).10 Second immunity to taunts. FYI.

EndevorX

05-19-2011, 03:34 AM

Is DoV PvP armor still going to retain the presence of ZERO physical mitigation?Regardless, here is why the changes are very poor.1.) contested content viability suffers for casuals presently (no reliable "block force", less of a chance due to no PvE/PvP crit mit unity)2.) future contested content viability suffers for casuals (mistaken, intentional rift separating PvE/PvP stats severely handi-caps competence in the face of codependent challenges)3.) cookie cutter mundaneity championed & incorporated with stifled futures3a.) PvP is best stimulated through PvE interoperability & contested progression3b.) all instances given a contested state with 2-4 rare gems/bolts/plates/threads/needles/screws/patches/links/clasps required from each for hardmode PvP gear3c.) battlegrounds would offer an "elite" tier with gear/AA/spell quality requirements to obtain the same hardmode PvP gear4.) ignores past precedent of consistent PvP ongoing in TSO due to PvP offering interoperable reward5.) ignores past precedent of warfields/battlegrounds failure/die-off due to lack of interdependent reward6.) ignores past precedent of T3 level locking die-off after Mastercrafted was needlessly buffed, damning the PvE farm scene7.) ignores players on the fence about PvP who would enjoy variety in augmenting PvE excellence through PvP8.) devalues scouts/mages9.) exacerbates priest/fighter imbalances10.) retains handi-caps for casuals due to their lack of PvP gear, nullifying the attempt to disavow "raiding required for competence"10a.) unifying PvE/PvP crit mit & nerfing "In PvP" versions of DoV EM/HM raid gear (crit mit/cb/pot) would give casuals adequate survivability10b.) DoV PvP gear could be appointed extra Toughness for flat PvP damage mit to compensate for any needs demanded by retaining unified PvE/PvP Cb/Pot11.) all-in-all, reinforces the mistaken idea that lazy game design is acceptable11a.) tolerable if SOE's budget/fiscal liberty consists of immense fail12.) no PvP +/- 1 rank fame range makes fame gain easymode12a.) fame gain will be disregarded while players zerg writs for easy faction to min-/max-asap12b.) +/- 1 rank fame range ensures zerging is a greater risk, as harder to find targets makes fame hits more precious13.) low tier PvP is also kept cookie-cutter with excessive survivability (crit mit, toughness, ward proc, reflect proc, all needless with low tier PvP not having any high crit/potency)

Faeward

05-19-2011, 04:40 AM

Mentored players can once again fight back if attacked in PVP. NOTE: If a player does not have the red outline around his name, he is likely mentored and you should not attack him.This is quite possibly the best change ever. I mentor a lot and this will make things so much more entertaining!

33kerry

05-19-2011, 10:29 AM

I am not seeing any mention about existing tokens. Will we be able to use them or trade them for any new ones?

Olihin

05-19-2011, 03:27 PM

<cite>33kerry wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not seeing any mention about existing tokens. Will we be able to use them or trade them for any new ones?</blockquote>We are not adding a new token, only factions. So you can spend your tokens on the new armor once you get the faction for that slot.Olihin

Balrok

05-19-2011, 04:20 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>PvP Mentoring <ul type="disc"><li>Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.</li><li>Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.</li><li>You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.</li></ul>Olihin</blockquote>Sorry Olihin, I just can't let this one go. Not sure why, since I don't even play lower tier PvP... but I just know this is a problem. Just curious why the following changes were made in the past?Live Update #21: March 23, 2006<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253085" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253085</a>*** Player-versus-Player ***- You can now mentor only in instances on PvP servers.What was the reason they decided to disable mentoring in open or contested zones on PvP servers back then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Seems like this was a quick fix to stop people from exploiting mentoring in PvP.Live Update #22: April 13, 2006<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253092" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253092</a>*** Player-versus-Player ***- There is now a 60-second countdown that begins when you elect to mentor another player. While it is in progress, moving or casting a spell will cancel the countdown. Mentoring will begin if the countdown is completed without interruption.- While mentoring, you may not make hostile acts against another player or player pet, nor can you perform beneficial actions upon any player or player pet that is hated by another player.Ok, so just under a month later they provide a solution to mentoring on a PvP Server.... since you just can't take away the option in open or contested zones. Why was there a 60-second countdown added? Was there a concern people would exploit the instant enable/disable mentoring option in PvP? Why was the decision made to completely disable hostile actions or perform beneficial actions when mentored? Could they not have allow a "fight back" option then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Was this to prevent people from exploiting mentoring in PvP?Fast forward to GU60. Has mentored PvP combat changed in anyway since 2006? If it's been balanced correctly for PvP combat and I'm just not aware of it, please let me know. If nothing has changed, then you see problem, right? 5 years later and the mentoring gap has increased to introduct even better gear, abilities and AA's to "attempt" to scale down. Someone saw a problem back in 2006, so I just need to confirm... as it will be even worse in 2011. It will be exploited again. This attempt to help 1% will mess with the remaining 99%.I actually like the statement that was made when chronomagic mentoring was introduced September 23, 2009:-Chronomagic works the same on PvP servers as it does on PvE servers. However, it also has all the same restrictions as mentoring—namely that you cannot engage in PvP combat while the chronomagic effect is on your character. This makes it quite a bit more dangerous on PvP servers, so good luck and be careful!Thanks!

Peak

05-19-2011, 05:44 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>PvP Mentoring <ul type="disc"><li>Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.</li><li>Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.</li><li>You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.</li></ul>Olihin</blockquote>Sorry Olihin, I just can't let this one go. Not sure why, since I don't even play lower tier PvP... but I just know this is a problem. Just curious why the following changes were made in the past?Live Update #21: March 23, 2006<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253085" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253085</a>*** Player-versus-Player ***- You can now mentor only in instances on PvP servers.What was the reason they decided to disable mentoring in open or contested zones on PvP servers back then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Seems like this was a quick fix to stop people from exploiting mentoring in PvP.Live Update #22: April 13, 2006<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253092" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253092</a>*** Player-versus-Player ***- There is now a 60-second countdown that begins when you elect to mentor another player. While it is in progress, moving or casting a spell will cancel the countdown. Mentoring will begin if the countdown is completed without interruption.- While mentoring, you may not make hostile acts against another player or player pet, nor can you perform beneficial actions upon any player or player pet that is hated by another player.Ok, so just under a month later they provide a solution to mentoring on a PvP Server.... since you just can't take away the option in open or contested zones. Why was there a 60-second countdown added? Was there a concern people would exploit the instant enable/disable mentoring option in PvP? Why was the decision made to completely disable hostile actions or perform beneficial actions when mentored? Could they not have allow a "fight back" option then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Was this to prevent people from exploiting mentoring in PvP?Fast forward to GU60. Has mentored PvP combat changed in anyway since 2006? If it's been balanced correctly for PvP combat and I'm just not aware of it, please let me know. If nothing has changed, then you see problem, right? 5 years later and the mentoring gap has increased to introduct even better gear, abilities and AA's to "attempt" to scale down. Someone saw a problem back in 2006, so I just need to confirm... as it will be even worse in 2011. It will be exploited again. This attempt to help 1% will mess with the remaining 99%.I actually like the statement that was made when chronomagic mentoring was introduced September 23, 2009:-Chronomagic works the same on PvP servers as it does on PvE servers. However, it also has all the same restrictions as mentoring—namely that you cannot engage in PvP combat while the chronomagic effect is on your character. This makes it quite a bit more dangerous on PvP servers, so good luck and be careful!Thanks!</blockquote>But it's not the same as it will have been back then.There are restrictions to mentoring in place still.Not to mention, if I'm a 90 mentored to 30, a 90 can still come kill me.

Balrok

05-19-2011, 05:57 PM

<cite>Peak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But it's not the same as it will have been back then.There are restrictions to mentoring in place still.Not to mention, if I'm a 90 mentored to 30, a 90 can still come kill me.</blockquote>Restrictions that can easily be worked around. The whole 90 mentored can get smoked by a 90 thing didn't make much sense to me really. Like giving them an option to fight back, but allowing them to get one shotted at any point in time by a 90.... as if they were an Exile or something. tbh.... if the intent was to encourage people to mentor to complete old zone quest and be able to fight off PvP (again, why mentor here?) then why add the option of them getting blown up by a passing 90? You just made their mentored questing harder! I just don't get why this was added back with complex restrictions/rules to manage when they should focus everything on PvP balance. So would the pvp solution be to have a pocket 90 hanging around to wipe the mentored targets?If a group has a mentored healer at a bell in another zone, are they flagged attackable or can they attack? When they enter PvP combat and the mentored healer zones over, is he/she automatically put in PvP combat? The whole thing just smells dumb.

EQ2Player

05-19-2011, 07:42 PM

<cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is DoV PvP armor still going to retain the presence of ZERO physical mitigation?Regardless, here is why the changes are very poor.1.) contested content viability suffers for casuals presently (no reliable "block force", less of a chance due to no PvE/PvP crit mit unity)2.) future contested content viability suffers for casuals (mistaken, intentional rift separating PvE/PvP stats severely handi-caps competence in the face of codependent challenges)3.) cookie cutter mundaneity championed & incorporated with stifled futures3a.) PvP is best stimulated through PvE interoperability & contested progression3b.) all instances given a contested state with 2-4 rare gems/bolts/plates/threads/needles/screws/patches/links/clasps required from each for hardmode PvP gear3c.) battlegrounds would offer an "elite" tier with gear/AA/spell quality requirements to obtain the same hardmode PvP gear4.) ignores past precedent of consistent PvP ongoing in TSO due to PvP offering interoperable reward5.) ignores past precedent of warfields/battlegrounds failure/die-off due to lack of interdependent reward6.) ignores past precedent of T3 level locking die-off after Mastercrafted was needlessly buffed, damning the PvE farm scene7.) ignores players on the fence about PvP who would enjoy variety in augmenting PvE excellence through PvP8.) alters open world PvP writs to fame dependency, shuffling players into battlegrounds as the easymode route for min-maxing8a.) ignores solvent ideas such as rare drops from contested, i.e. possibly 3 runes/gems/bolts/incantations/imbues/stitchings/boilings from EACH TSO/SF/DoV instance named, but in contested versions8b.) the battlegrounds version for upgraded gear would be a higher-tier bracket, demanding certain statistical/equipment criteria8c.) engaging w/ more than 2 people results in 2-1 fame per hit, potentially requiring from 18-36 people to finish a writ instead of 6-128d.) engaging w/ a raid+ results in no fame hit (this amount of people will be required to kill many/most competent 2 priest groups [worse with 2p/2fighter groups])9.) devalues scouts/mages10.) exacerbates priest/fighter imbalances11.) retains handi-caps for casuals due to their lack of PvP gear, nullifying the attempt to disavow "raiding required for competence"11a.) unifying PvE/PvP crit mit & nerfing "In PvP" versions of DoV EM/HM raid gear (crit mit/cb/pot) would give casuals adequate survivability11b.) DoV PvP gear could be appointed extra Toughness for flat PvP damage mit to compensate for any needs demanded by retaining unified PvE/PvP Cb/Pot12.) all-in-all, reinforces the mistaken idea that lazy game design is acceptable12a.) tolerable if SOE's budget/fiscal liberty consists of immense fail13.) no PvP +/- 1 rank fame range makes fame gain easymode13a.) fame gain will be disregarded while players zerg writs for easy faction to min-/max-asap13b.) +/- 1 rank fame range ensures zerging is a greater risk, as harder to find targets makes fame hits more precious</blockquote>Nonsense. That is in one word what all of the above says.

Cocytus

05-20-2011, 03:47 AM

Vaylan77

05-20-2011, 07:03 AM

Just from reading I wanna quit.The mentored thing purely sucks. You don't get credit when killing them? So you just can use mentored 90s in your t4 group. Wait for being atk and then atk back. You are get all the buff benefits from the high level non t4 spells and the mentored players actually can hit back? Oh my.Instead of tweaking the game so PVP fits into the game SOE only makes exceptions that have effects on PVP which sucks. Basically SOE makes 2 games. Since WFs are nowadays not much more than a big BG anyway I wonder how long it will take that we have to zone on a special server anyway each time we wanna do PVP which has its own set of rules.

Proud_Silence

05-20-2011, 07:38 AM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>PvP Mentoring <ul type="disc"><li>Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.</li><li>Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.</li><li>You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.</li></ul>Olihin</blockquote>Sorry Olihin, I just can't let this one go. Not sure why, since I don't even play lower tier PvP... but I just know this is a problem. Just curious why the following changes were made in the past?Live Update #21: March 23, 2006<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253085" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253085</a>*** Player-versus-Player ***- You can now mentor only in instances on PvP servers.What was the reason they decided to disable mentoring in open or contested zones on PvP servers back then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Seems like this was a quick fix to stop people from exploiting mentoring in PvP.Live Update #22: April 13, 2006<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253092" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253092</a>*** Player-versus-Player ***- There is now a 60-second countdown that begins when you elect to mentor another player. While it is in progress, moving or casting a spell will cancel the countdown. Mentoring will begin if the countdown is completed without interruption.- While mentoring, you may not make hostile acts against another player or player pet, nor can you perform beneficial actions upon any player or player pet that is hated by another player.Ok, so just under a month later they provide a solution to mentoring on a PvP Server.... since you just can't take away the option in open or contested zones. Why was there a 60-second countdown added? Was there a concern people would exploit the instant enable/disable mentoring option in PvP? Why was the decision made to completely disable hostile actions or perform beneficial actions when mentored? Could they not have allow a "fight back" option then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Was this to prevent people from exploiting mentoring in PvP?Fast forward to GU60. Has mentored PvP combat changed in anyway since 2006? If it's been balanced correctly for PvP combat and I'm just not aware of it, please let me know. If nothing has changed, then you see problem, right? 5 years later and the mentoring gap has increased to introduct even better gear, abilities and AA's to "attempt" to scale down. Someone saw a problem back in 2006, so I just need to confirm... as it will be even worse in 2011. It will be exploited again. This attempt to help 1% will mess with the remaining 99%.I actually like the statement that was made when chronomagic mentoring was introduced September 23, 2009:-Chronomagic works the same on PvP servers as it does on PvE servers. However, it also has all the same restrictions as mentoring—namely that you cannot engage in PvP combat while the chronomagic effect is on your character. This makes it quite a bit more dangerous on PvP servers, so good luck and be careful!Thanks!</blockquote>THIS !!Changing mentoring system to fight back is not needed, it will not benefit anyone except the ones exploiting it. There was nothing wrong with current system !it was said before, mentoring is a PVE tool to provide options to complete PVE content and it's not working AT ALL in regards to pvp mechanics.Already now it's a pain in the butt to level up somewhere and suddenly a 90 Paladin mentored to 40 runs past you and wipes out the entire zone. now this is how it was now and how it will be after this ill-thought out changes:- BEFORE: i can try to attack the mentored person, forcing pvp mechanics upon him in hopes it will slow down the mob slaughtering. Anyone who ever met a mentored paladin knows how good the chances are to stop him/her from annihilating every mob in the zone- AFTER : I have one, maybe two options: leave the zone and go somewhere else. if i attack the mentored person i might as well jump off a cliff to my death. I call in help (pvp solution?lol) ...odds are, the mentored person will still own the whole group of actual level toons.I've seen a few threads about people crying about how unfair it is they can't fight back in pvp while mentored. I've always regarded them as not very bright and the typical "give me give me now" type of crowd that's lurking around more and more these days. Any competent dev would be able to think further then 30 seconds ahead in time and realize what kind of consquences such a change will bring. So i thought.

EndevorX

05-20-2011, 08:20 AM

<cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is DoV PvP armor still going to retain the presence of ZERO physical mitigation?Regardless, here is why the changes are very poor.1.) contested content viability suffers for casuals presently (no reliable "block force", less of a chance due to no PvE/PvP crit mit unity)2.) future contested content viability suffers for casuals (mistaken, intentional rift separating PvE/PvP stats severely handi-caps competence in the face of codependent challenges)3.) cookie cutter mundaneity championed & incorporated with stifled futures3a.) PvP is best stimulated through PvE interoperability & contested progression3b.) all instances given a contested state with 2-4 rare gems/bolts/plates/threads/needles/screws/patches/links/clasps required from each for hardmode PvP gear3c.) battlegrounds would offer an "elite" tier with gear/AA/spell quality requirements to obtain the same hardmode PvP gear4.) ignores past precedent of consistent PvP ongoing in TSO due to PvP offering interoperable reward5.) ignores past precedent of warfields/battlegrounds failure/die-off due to lack of interdependent reward6.) ignores past precedent of T3 level locking die-off after Mastercrafted was needlessly buffed, damning the PvE farm scene7.) ignores players on the fence about PvP who would enjoy variety in augmenting PvE excellence through PvP8.) alters open world PvP writs to fame dependency, shuffling players into battlegrounds as the easymode route for min-maxing8a.) ignores solvent ideas such as rare drops from contested, i.e. possibly 3 runes/gems/bolts/incantations/imbues/stitchings/boilings from EACH TSO/SF/DoV instance named, but in contested versions8b.) the battlegrounds version for upgraded gear would be a higher-tier bracket, demanding certain statistical/equipment criteria8c.) engaging w/ more than 2 people results in 2-1 fame per hit, potentially requiring from 18-36 people to finish a writ instead of 6-128d.) engaging w/ a raid+ results in no fame hit (this amount of people will be required to kill many/most competent 2 priest groups [worse with 2p/2fighter groups])9.) devalues scouts/mages10.) exacerbates priest/fighter imbalances11.) retains handi-caps for casuals due to their lack of PvP gear, nullifying the attempt to disavow "raiding required for competence"11a.) unifying PvE/PvP crit mit & nerfing "In PvP" versions of DoV EM/HM raid gear (crit mit/cb/pot) would give casuals adequate survivability11b.) DoV PvP gear could be appointed extra Toughness for flat PvP damage mit to compensate for any needs demanded by retaining unified PvE/PvP Cb/Pot12.) all-in-all, reinforces the mistaken idea that lazy game design is acceptable12a.) tolerable if SOE's budget/fiscal liberty consists of immense fail13.) no PvP +/- 1 rank fame range makes fame gain easymode13a.) fame gain will be disregarded while players zerg writs for easy faction to min-/max-asap13b.) +/- 1 rank fame range ensures zerging is a greater risk, as harder to find targets makes fame hits more precious</blockquote>Nonsense. That is in one word what all of the above says.</blockquote>Oops. #8 is mistaken & I changed the list to appropriately reflect the alterations.Rothgar mentioned writs being tied to fame, but since the servers came back, it's now known that PvP writs will give faction not divvied relative to kills.But no, the evaluation of GU#60's grave PvP flaws isn't nonsense in any way.Here's the updated list. <cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is DoV PvP armor still going to retain the presence of ZERO physical mitigation?Regardless, here is why the changes are very poor.1.) contested content viability suffers for casuals presently (no reliable "block force", less of a chance due to no PvE/PvP crit mit unity)2.) future contested content viability suffers for casuals (mistaken, intentional rift separating PvE/PvP stats severely handi-caps competence in the face of codependent challenges)3.) cookie cutter mundaneity championed & incorporated with stifled futures3a.) PvP is best stimulated through PvE interoperability & contested progression3b.) all instances given a contested state with 2-4 rare gems/bolts/plates/threads/needles/screws/patches/links/clasps required from each for hardmode PvP gear3c.) battlegrounds would offer an "elite" tier with gear/AA/spell quality requirements to obtain the same hardmode PvP gear4.) ignores past precedent of consistent PvP ongoing in TSO due to PvP offering interoperable reward5.) ignores past precedent of warfields/battlegrounds failure/die-off due to lack of interdependent reward6.) ignores past precedent of T3 level locking die-off after Mastercrafted was needlessly buffed, damning the PvE farm scene7.) ignores players on the fence about PvP who would enjoy variety in augmenting PvE excellence through PvP8.) devalues scouts/mages9.) exacerbates priest/fighter imbalances10.) retains handi-caps for casuals due to their lack of PvP gear, nullifying the attempt to disavow "raiding required for competence"10a.) unifying PvE/PvP crit mit & nerfing "In PvP" versions of DoV EM/HM raid gear (crit mit/cb/pot) would give casuals adequate survivability10b.) DoV PvP gear could be appointed extra Toughness for flat PvP damage mit to compensate for any needs demanded by retaining unified PvE/PvP Cb/Pot11.) all-in-all, reinforces the mistaken idea that lazy game design is acceptable11a.) tolerable if SOE's budget/fiscal liberty consists of immense fail12.) no PvP +/- 1 rank fame range makes fame gain easymode12a.) fame gain will be disregarded while players zerg writs for easy faction to min-/max-asap12b.) +/- 1 rank fame range ensures zerging is a greater risk, as harder to find targets makes fame hits more precious13.) low tier PvP is also kept cookie-cutter with excessive survivability (crit mit, toughness, ward proc, reflect proc, all needless with low tier PvP not having any high crit/potency)</blockquote>

Valonia

05-20-2011, 08:56 AM

With the changes to mentoring I'd like to see some new way to craft in peace .. until now mentoring was a semi-safe way to do the horid faction grind in the new zones and general crafter quest, that for some weird reason have to take place in pvp and pve enabled zones.We all know how well a crafter in crafting equipment can fight back. If this has to be the new way at the very least give us a chance to equip our pvp gear when we are being attacked while crafting .. it's worse enough that the combine will fail, but at least we'd have a chance to fight back.Alternatively flag crafting areas as save zones. But I reckon the strong whine of 'true pvp-players' would make that a no go.

Pavahac

05-20-2011, 11:26 AM

So I guess people are saying that mentoring is for pve servers and that all pve content should be removed? I like the change now you have to be careful who you choose to fight. Before steam roll in destroy the player mentoring and the group laugh and see if they can do it again, that was working so well. FYI, people quit saying your speaking for me when you are not, unless you have talken to at least 90% of the player base you do not speak for the majority. In game polls need to be taken not suggestions from the forums.

Wolfsight

05-20-2011, 11:54 AM

<cite>Pavahac@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote> So I guess people are saying that mentoring is for pve servers and that all pve content should be removed? I like the change now you have to be careful who you choose to fight. Before steam roll in destroy the player mentoring and the group laugh and see if they can do it again, that was working so well. FYI, people quit saying your speaking for me when you are not, unless you have talken to at least 90% of the player base you do not speak for the majority. In game polls need to be taken not suggestions from the forums.</blockquote>What are you talking about ? Noone is saying anything about PvE content being removed what we are saying it is a completely unneeded change that will screw with PvP at the lower levels.

Loldawg

05-20-2011, 05:58 PM

FYI - it's not true that level locked twinks avoid people mentoring down. My experience - especially in a zone like SoS - is that T7 like to go through and beat on mentored 90s. And when you literally can't do anything - and you're not a crusader - the T7 level locked can and does kill you. This is not uncommon. So it's not correct to say that there is no reason for this change - there is in fact a reason.That said - I wouldn't want to see a change mess up PVP for lower tiers. Removing fame is a no brainer - but some of the other changes I think are worth trying out. No solution is perfect - I personally am open to the changes proposed. Just as I'm open to seeing how the separation of PVP and PVE gear works out. This game changes and evolves - and what worked years ago may no longer work now - I personally don't see the major issue that others see but I guess we will see.

Ilovecows

05-20-2011, 07:43 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>I don't think I was clear enough before. The bolded part here is what i was talking about. So does that mean that all passive abilities have been disabled? or was that a typo and you meant taunts?

EQ2Player

05-21-2011, 01:09 AM

<cite>Moragor@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the changes to mentoring I'd like to see some new way to craft in peace .. until now mentoring was a semi-safe way to do the horid faction grind in the new zones and general crafter quest, that for some weird reason have to take place in pvp and pve enabled zones.We all know how well a crafter in crafting equipment can fight back. If this has to be the new way at the very least give us a chance to equip our pvp gear when we are being attacked while crafting .. it's worse enough that the combine will fail, but at least we'd have a chance to fight back.Alternatively flag crafting areas as save zones. But I reckon the strong whine of 'true pvp-players' would make that a no go.</blockquote>+1

Wolfsight

05-22-2011, 08:34 AM

One thing to add, flying mounts currently can't be dismounted while in the air but it is possible to just cancel the mount buff from the buff bar may want to fix that if it is the way you are dealing with flying mounts.

Balrok

05-24-2011, 09:43 AM

<img src="http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7633/crushd.jpg" width="487" height="133" />Fresh off of test last night with new PvP gear with Toughness set bonuses. I also wear PvP jewlery, charms and weapons. This is not a ranger.... this is a scrub SK (sorry, but he was terrible). There was a blip of a second where I didn't have him CC'ed and this is what he "auto" ranges me for. I'm about as defensive built as a clothy can get, and can only stun/mez/daze so much to prevent this. What I hate the most is that this guy really had no idea he was hitting me this hard, cause it's "auto" damage. There is zero skill in it and it's just damage he's given.I've mentioned this before.. but I'm not saying to nerf their damage (well, maybe I am cause that was just dumb). But focus on phasing autoattack damage out of PvP and move it into their Combat Abilities how EQ2 was orignally designed. It "was" a great game! If you just beef up toughness to survive autoattacks, you're just ruining the rest of the classes that actually use CAs and Spells. It spreads out damage evenly, so it's not frontloaded in a blip of a second like this. It also allows a player to chose their next attack, giving them an option to customize their attack for different situations/targets. Players should be rewarded for how they play their class vs what gear they wear. Basically, it would be a better game period.Thanks for your time

yellowbelly08

05-24-2011, 01:38 PM

Exur,,,Your log there shows up to 5 multi attacks per auto from the ranger. This is impossible in the new pvp gear where it only uses pvp ma not pve. It would need 400 plus ma rating..its not possible..200 max is, tho in reality i think most rangers will be at far less ma than even 200 with new pvp ma possibilities.So can you confirm its currently bugged on test and pve multi is still working..?Maybe im reading it wrong tho and these attacks didnt all occur at once..during an auto. The actual damage of them seems ok per hit..i was doing up to 14k on live so those stats seem ok for new mechanic.In reality the new mechanic rangers should (by description-not as seen above) be doing an auto for maybe 4k then probably 2 multis for 4k thats 12k auto..they would be very fortunate indeed to see a flurry. And that...is working as intended...

Balrok

05-24-2011, 01:46 PM

<cite>yellowbelly08 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exur,,,Your log there shows up to 5 multi attacks per auto from the ranger. This is impossible in the new pvp gear where it only uses pvp ma not pve. It would need 400 plus ma rating..its not possible..200 max is.So can you confirm its currently bugged on test and pve multi is still working..?Maybe im reading it wrong tho and these attacks didnt all occur at once..during an auto. The actual damage of them seems ok per hit..i was doing up to 14k on live so those stats seem ok for new mechanic.</blockquote>Disregard the Ranger parse.. I don't trust my ACT atm.Just this morning I was in Klak with a Zerker and we did some testing. I could stand and take the melee autoattack hits pretty well... but as soon as I went into ranged autoattack I fell over.

Loldawg

05-24-2011, 01:58 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But focus on phasing autoattack damage out of PvP and move it into their Combat Abilities how EQ2 was orignally designed. It "was" a great game! If you just beef up toughness to survive autoattacks, you're just ruining the rest of the classes that actually use CAs and Spells. It spreads out damage evenly, so it's not frontloaded in a blip of a second like this. It also allows a player to chose their next attack, giving them an option to customize their attack for different situations/targets. Players should be rewarded for how they play their class vs what gear they wear. Basically, it would be a better game period.</blockquote>+1.There is a balance problem w/ autoattack and ranged autoattack damage. It needs to be sigificantly adjusted in PVP beyond just adding a bunch of toughness - which impacts all classes.

yellowbelly08

05-24-2011, 01:58 PM

If it is bugged as it appears its surely due to the before entering combat mechanic (as utilised by focus aim users post nerf). So the 1st hit is not taking into consideration the pvp ruleset and so the ranger with raid set 400 plus pve multi is indeed hitting you 5 times on 1st attack.Exur I suggest you test this by slowly entering combat with the ranger using his sword at start to put him in pvp combat then let him range you and i presume you wont then see the 5 ranged multis..?If so probably an ez fix for devs...tho focus aim was never fixed in that regard....

Balrok

05-24-2011, 02:07 PM

As a matter of principle, I don't have Ranger friends. I posted my /feedback on Test... so it's on dev to find a ranger willing to nerf himself.Update: Not trusting my Ranger fight parse. warding the same value 5 times seems like a broken ACT. None-the-less, it hits like a truck and the zerker/SK fights I had did far more damage to me just range auto attacking, then standing toe to toe with melee+CAs.

Peak

05-24-2011, 10:16 PM

Ranged attacks still hit hard (it's the nature of ranged auto, go look back at KOS and EOF). Flurry still uses the same values in PVP or PVE. There is no separate stat.Multi Attack is working properly, however. But it doesn't matter since Flurry is like having 400% multi attack, just on a smaller chance of going off.

EQ2Player

05-25-2011, 12:13 AM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote> focus on phasing autoattack damage out of PvP and move it into their Combat Abilities how EQ2 was orignally designed. It "was" a great game! If you just beef up toughness to survive autoattacks, you're just ruining the rest of the classes that actually use CAs and Spells. It spreads out damage evenly, so it's not frontloaded in a blip of a second like this. It also allows a player to chose their next attack, giving them an option to customize their attack for different situations/targets. Players should be rewarded for how they play their class vs what gear they wear. Basically, it would be a better game period.</blockquote>Please consider this excellent suggestion.

Olihin

05-25-2011, 01:33 PM

<cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>I don't think I was clear enough before. The bolded part here is what i was talking about. So does that mean that all passive abilities have been disabled? or was that a typo and you meant taunts?</blockquote>In light of the conversation, it seemed to be clear. I do understand how it would NOT clear for someone coming in 7 pages in, so I will clarify for them. Passive taunt abilties have been disabled in PvP. Olihin

Olihin

05-25-2011, 01:54 PM

<cite>Wolfsight@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing to add, flying mounts currently can't be dismounted while in the air but it is possible to just cancel the mount buff from the buff bar may want to fix that if it is the way you are dealing with flying mounts.</blockquote>Thank you, we will look into this.Olihin

Aad

05-25-2011, 02:10 PM

Olihin, is there a schedule for when the test-copy server is set to PvP-Ruleset? I was able to get on the other day and it was PvP, but today it isn't. It seems to come and go.

Cloakentuna

05-25-2011, 02:10 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>I don't think I was clear enough before. The bolded part here is what i was talking about. So does that mean that all passive abilities have been disabled? or was that a typo and you meant taunts?</blockquote>In light of the conversation, it seemed to be clear. I do understand how it would NOT clear for someone coming in 7 pages in, so I will clarify for them. Passive taunt abilties have been disabled in PvP. Olihin</blockquote>It's about time!Should also consider Exur's post and ideas about auto attacks.

dellaripa

05-25-2011, 02:18 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>To answer the flying mount question, you will be grounded rather then dismounted. So you will still be able to keep the benefits of the ground mount while being unable to fly until you are no longer engaged. Passive abilities have been disabled. Fighters have various taunts that can still be used to keep targets engaged. Guardians for example have Taunting Assault, Provoke, Plant, Shout and Taunting Blow. That is not counting any AA taunts that work in PvP or single fight use taunts like Rescue and Sentry Watch. Please note that we are also looking at the balance based on a group vs. group combat. Adding a passive limiter would not give us the active participation we would like from fighters in a PvP setting. At this point, a group that is taunt locked, would be clearly on the base of the actions of the fighter/s in the group vs. their simple presence in the group. Please remember that all feedback is appreciated and evaluated. Please keep it on topic to avoid tl:dr comments.Olihin</blockquote>I don't think I was clear enough before. The bolded part here is what i was talking about. So does that mean that all passive abilities have been disabled? or was that a typo and you meant taunts?</blockquote>In light of the conversation, it seemed to be clear. I do understand how it would NOT clear for someone coming in 7 pages in, so I will clarify for them. Passive taunt abilties have been disabled in PvP. Olihin</blockquote>Well since you have just disproportionally nerfed an already underpowered pvp class (guardians) will there be effort to compensate and bring them in line with their counterparts?

Cloakentuna

05-25-2011, 02:22 PM

How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS.

Talathion

05-25-2011, 02:48 PM

Wytie

05-25-2011, 03:03 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wolfsight@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing to add, flying mounts currently can't be dismounted while in the air but it is possible to just cancel the mount buff from the buff bar may want to fix that if it is the way you are dealing with flying mounts.</blockquote>Thank you, we will look into this.Olihin</blockquote>I told you so................................................ ...........<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=500084�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...84�</a><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Greetings,We will not be removing flying mounts from the PvP Servers. We did discuss and implemented a couple of new rules for PvP Servers only.<ul><li>You will need to land to dismount </li><li>Enabled the chance that you will be dismounted when attacked</li></ul>These changes allow for everyone to continue to enjoy the convenience of flight while at the same time removing some of the concerns. We understand that not all concerns are resolved, but we hope that the changes bring some positive results to the issues it does address.Thank you!Olihin</blockquote>So how does "right click" cancle mount buff from maintained buff window work, with this?Hopefully you guys disabled that too otherwise its not really going to stop it.You can cancle anybuff this way, so im interested in seeing how you really fixed this. lolWith all the UI mods out there this cant be that simple.</blockquote>

Sprin

05-25-2011, 03:22 PM

<cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?

Olihin

05-25-2011, 03:41 PM

<cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin

Olihin

05-25-2011, 03:42 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wolfsight@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing to add, flying mounts currently can't be dismounted while in the air but it is possible to just cancel the mount buff from the buff bar may want to fix that if it is the way you are dealing with flying mounts.</blockquote>Thank you, we will look into this.Olihin</blockquote>I told you so................................................ ...........<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=500084�" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...84�</a><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Greetings,We will not be removing flying mounts from the PvP Servers. We did discuss and implemented a couple of new rules for PvP Servers only.<ul><li>You will need to land to dismount </li><li>Enabled the chance that you will be dismounted when attacked</li></ul>These changes allow for everyone to continue to enjoy the convenience of flight while at the same time removing some of the concerns. We understand that not all concerns are resolved, but we hope that the changes bring some positive results to the issues it does address.Thank you!Olihin</blockquote>So how does "right click" cancle mount buff from maintained buff window work, with this?Hopefully you guys disabled that too otherwise its not really going to stop it.You can cancle anybuff this way, so im interested in seeing how you really fixed this. lolWith all the UI mods out there this cant be that simple.</blockquote></blockquote><cite>Wolfsight, Paill just KSed your thanks... LOL</cite>Thank you both!Olihin

Cloakentuna

05-25-2011, 04:27 PM

Pail likes to steal things, it's in his nature, if you catch my drift <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Notsovilepriest

05-25-2011, 04:30 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin</blockquote>Then lower the duration of Adrenaline in PvP. The duration to recast + passive taunt is too much comparatively

dellaripa

05-25-2011, 04:59 PM

<cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin</blockquote>Yep. Doing 1/5 the damage and 0% of the healing that (all else being equal) crusaders put out was pretty simple.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />I will give this to you though, you have achieved maximum appeasement with minimal outrage. Though I'm not so sure it has as much to do with the change being good as at has to do with there being so few guardians left to mount a vocal protest. If it's the latter then it's pretty shameful on your part.

Peak

05-25-2011, 06:35 PM

<cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin</blockquote>Yep. Doing 1/5 the damage and 0% of the healing that (all else being equal) crusaders put out was pretty simple.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />I will give this to you though, you have achieved maximum appeasement with minimal outrage. Though I'm not so sure it has as much to do with the change being good as at has to do with there being so few guardians left to mount a vocal protest. If it's the latter then it's pretty shameful on your part.</blockquote>Oh, boo hoo, you can't do 6K DPS in a PVP fight.Oh wait, tanks are supposed to lock people down and be annoying, NOT T1 DPS? Weird concept!

Sprin

05-25-2011, 07:40 PM

<cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin</blockquote>Yep. Doing 1/5 the damage and 0% of the healing that (all else being equal) crusaders put out was pretty simple.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />I will give this to you though, you have achieved maximum appeasement with minimal outrage. Though I'm not so sure it has as much to do with the change being good as at has to do with there being so few guardians left to mount a vocal protest. If it's the latter then it's pretty shameful on your part.</blockquote>LOL pretty sure there isnt any outcry because the ONLY reason to play a guardian was to be a PVP tank, and since PVP hasn't existed on this server for ages, there was no reason to have a PVP tank, therefore no guardians to complain about the nerf.... And @ Olihin, people who have been actually PVP'ng on this server long enough know how OP the guardians permanent reactive was and dont need to go to test server for you to prove it to them...... but like I said, that was the only reason to roll a Guardian in the last few years.... So good luck reviving that class now, lol.

Ilovecows

05-25-2011, 07:54 PM

<cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin</blockquote>Yep. Doing 1/5 the damage and 0% of the healing that (all else being equal) crusaders put out was pretty simple.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />I will give this to you though, you have achieved maximum appeasement with minimal outrage. Though I'm not so sure it has as much to do with the change being good as at has to do with there being so few guardians left to mount a vocal protest. If it's the latter then it's pretty shameful on your part.</blockquote>Imagine how much more crying there would be if SK's reaver was made to not work in pvp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Half the server would be raging about that haha

Peak

05-25-2011, 09:13 PM

<cite>Steppen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Insurgent@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ghettoblaster@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>How are Guards underpowered in PvP? The fact is, pvp is balanced around group fights, and in group fights, Guards were far and away the most OP tank in the game because of all their passive BS. </blockquote>LOL yes they were, though to be honest, it was the one and only thing Guards were still actually good for and better at then all other tanks, now that Passives are gone, [Removed for Content] is the point playing a guard?</blockquote>Just to make sure it is clear...permanent passive taunts are disabled. Any of the short duration passive taunts are not. So a guardian will still be a great tank for PvP, but it will require a bit of work. I am clariffying for those that did not go to TEST-COPY to check out the changes before posting, I want to make sure that is explained. Olihin</blockquote>Yep. Doing 1/5 the damage and 0% of the healing that (all else being equal) crusaders put out was pretty simple.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />I will give this to you though, you have achieved maximum appeasement with minimal outrage. Though I'm not so sure it has as much to do with the change being good as at has to do with there being so few guardians left to mount a vocal protest. If it's the latter then it's pretty shameful on your part.</blockquote>Imagine how much more crying there would be if SK's reaver was made to not work in pvp <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Half the server would be raging about that haha</blockquote>Wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Rahzillious

05-29-2011, 07:29 PM

<cite>Vlos@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a pvp'r but I actually don't like how they are making this game either PvE or PvP with gear. When Eq2 originally came out and I read that it was not going to have pvp I shy'd away from the game because I had no interest in just raiding or fighting mobs. For the first time ever I've started raiding, mainly for something new to do while the pvp changes were being worked on but with the addition of PvP-only stats (pot, cb, ma, etc..) I don't really see the point in continuing with PvE once this goes live. I really think they could have come up with a better system than to split the game into pvp or pve. I actually preferred the game a few years back when a set of MC armor, expert spells and an AA cap put players on a more equal playing field for their level. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>After playing rift and the gear separation style...pvp is going to be a welcome change to this game. Looks like Liltitan is coming back home!

Winter12345

05-30-2011, 12:56 AM

EDIT: After a bit of searching...I found the answer to my question <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

raydenwins

05-30-2011, 12:41 PM

I understand the discord tokens and a new discord faction is required to buy the new pvp gear at 90. Do we need the new discord faction to buy lower level gear after gu60?

Daalilama

05-31-2011, 05:05 PM

Bremer

06-05-2011, 01:47 PM

The SF Berserker AA "Total Madness" increases the heal amount of Vision of Madness by 50 %. But since the GU the heal amount with and without the AA are the same for PvP, it only applies to PvE. Wasn't the AA properly adjusted to grant PvP potency to the spell?