How are people already flying?

[Brigh]

<p>I saw chat earlier talking about this then I personally witnessed it myself.</p>

[zimmer]

<p>Tradeskill quest for mount?</p>

[Stubbswick]

<p>Tradeskill one takes a day longer than the adventure one.</p>

[Brigh]

I am thinking an exploit/bug. My young one doesn't allow me to get another training quest.

[Glenolas]

<p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I am thinking an exploit/bug. My young one doesn't allow me to get another training quest.</blockquote><p>I've thinking a Dev account.</p>

[Brigh]

Well I know the name of the one person I have seen so if a mod/dev wants to pm me I will give it to them.

[Keianna]

<p>I saw in chat someone saying that his griffawn wasnt allowing him to exploit the quests anymore.</p><p>He was able to finish the first 3 before he wasnt able to continue.</p>

[Lempo]

<p>yea SOE allowed a lot of people to get a head start on the expansion and apparently feels that it is totally fair.</p>

[Zephanor]

<p>How did they do that when the CDN didn't have the necessary assests until yesterday? </p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>You sure you aren't just seeing people on the regular griffon that takes u around the zone same as Antonica or Thundering Steppes?</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You sure you aren't just seeing people on the regular griffon that takes u around the zone same as Antonica or Thundering Steppes?</p></blockquote><p>You don't think I would know the difference?</p><p>A certain player hovering above, moving around, and diving down to attack...</p>

[Barx]

<p>I heard talk of a few exploits that let people do multiple quests and advance the flying mount more quickly in Beta, I'm guessing one or more slipped through and that's probably what is happening.</p>

[Waters]

<p><cite>Jeff3558 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yea SOE allowed a lot of people to get a head start on the expansion and apparently feels that it is totally fair.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure what you mean here.  No one gets a head start on live servers, or gets to play the expansion early. </p><p>There was an exploit with the flying mount quest that made it possible to do the quest much faster than intended.  If you see someone flying already, this is the most likely reason for it. </p><p>- Waters</p>

[screenid]

<p><cite>Waters wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jeff3558 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yea SOE allowed a lot of people to get a head start on the expansion and apparently feels that it is totally fair.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure what you mean here.  No one gets a head start on live servers, or gets to play the expansion early. </p><p>There was an exploit with the flying mount quest that made it possible to do the quest much faster than intended.  If you see someone flying already, this is the most likely reason for it. </p><p>- Waters</p></blockquote><p>=-(  Well then you need to remove the 18 hr wait between quest for the rest of us.  =-)</p>

[Gungo]

<p>I think he should permantly disable flight for the exploiters cause it would be funny.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think he should permantly disable flight for the exploiters cause it would be funny.</p></blockquote><p>All the bugs were reported in beta and nothing were done about them, as usual.</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Waters wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jeff3558 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yea SOE allowed a lot of people to get a head start on the expansion and apparently feels that it is totally fair.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure what you mean here.  No one gets a head start on live servers, or gets to play the expansion early. </p><p>There was an exploit with the flying mount quest that made it possible to do the quest much faster than intended.  If you see someone flying already, this is the most likely reason for it. </p><p>- Waters</p></blockquote><p>Shouldn't these people have their flight status grounded then? Should I send petition notifiying a GM of the person I saw?</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think he should permantly disable flight for the exploiters cause it would be funny.</p></blockquote><p>All the bugs were reported in beta and nothing were done about them, as usual.</p></blockquote><p>SO an exploit goes through and people knew about it and then exploited it. Seems to me that warrants a nice 30-60day removal of flight. Its not permanant and should help encourage people not to exploit.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SO an exploit goes through and people knew about it and then exploited it. Seems to me that warrants a nice 30-60day removal of flight. Its not permanant and should help encourage people not to exploit.</p></blockquote><p>They can do what they want but if they ever punish me for doing something that was reported in beta by numerous people I know I won't be playing this game anymore.</p><p>IMO it isn't even an exploit.  Duping coin?  Sure.  Leveling exploits?  Okay.  Doing quests as intended for a reward?  Not an exploit.  If it wasn't intended why didn't they fix it since I know for a fact this bug and numerous others were sent along during beta.  Bugged/reported and not fixed = working as intended in my book.  I donated tons of hours testing DoV, to be punished for SOE's lack of action would be an insult.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SO an exploit goes through and people knew about it and then exploited it. Seems to me that warrants a nice 30-60day removal of flight. Its not permanant and should help encourage people not to exploit.</p></blockquote><p>They can do what they want but if they ever punish me for doing something that was reported in beta by numerous people I know I won't be playing this game anymore.</p><p>IMO it isn't even an exploit.  Duping coin?  Sure.  Leveling exploits?  Okay.  Doing quests as intended for a reward?  Not an exploit.  If it wasn't intended why didn't they fix it since I know for a fact this bug and numerous others were sent along during beta.  Bugged/reported and not fixed = working as intended in my book.  I donated tons of hours testing DoV, to be punished for SOE's lack of action would be an insult.</p></blockquote><p>You donoted tons of hours to find an exploit and then use it.  The problem is you should of never used the exploit. since you did NOT do the quest as intended.</p><p>Duping results in account banning. Using an exploit you found in beta should warrant some form of action of course not as sever as banning. Since it only encourages people such as yourself from exploiting again. And then using the excuse of well I reported it in beta. (You are a great example since this wouldnt be the first time for you using preexsisting exploits)</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You donoted tons of hours to find an exploit and then use it.  </p></blockquote><p>Can you read?  We found exploits AND THEN I PERSONALLY EMAILED DEVS AND REPORTED THEM.  Some devs fixed things quickly some fixed things slowly and some didn't fix anything at all, which means to me it didn't need to be fixed because it was working as intended.  Anyone who is flying right now had to do all the quests, you couldn't exploit from the pet to the mount without doing anything.</p><p>/shrug</p><p>They're already messing up by limiting the amount of repeatables you can do for faction each day and other stupid decisions making this game even worse because I hate being locked out of progression by artificial means.</p><p>So again, let them "punish" people for this with your amazing recommendations, probably doing anything who is flying today a favor in the long run anyway.</p><p>Also:  I never said I have my mount yet, you're assuming.  I'm just saying I know for a fact that all the flying mount bugs were reported during the beta.</p><p><div><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(You are a great example since this wouldnt be the first time for you using preexsisting exploits)</p></blockquote><p>Like?</p><p>Do you mean in RoK when I got my own guildies banned for exploiting leveling?  How about in SF when I got my own guildies stripped/suspended for duping in BGs?  How about in SF when I got the poisoned wave respawns fixed despite some of my own guildies using them to level?</p><p>Any real examples or you just talking out of what you should be sitting on?</p></div></p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p>This is just outrageous.  Either the quest needs to have the 18 hour restriction removed. Or the people who EXPLOITED the quest need to have their mounts removed, quest reset and banned for a at least a week.  Using knowledge that was aquired during beta to do something that was not intended is an exploit.  Just because it wasnt fixed does not = working as intended.   It was stated MANY MANY MANY times that the griffawn quests where INTENDED to have an 18 hour timer between each one.</p><p>Beta should not be used as a method for learning how to CHEAT everyone else on the server UNFAIRLY.  Its like insider training on wallstreet.  Using your knowledge to get ahead of everyone else.</p><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You donoted tons of hours to find an exploit and then use it.  </p></blockquote><p>Can you read?  We found exploits AND THEN I PERSONALLY EMAILED DEVS AND REPORTED THEM.  Some devs fixed things quickly some fixed things slowly and some didn't fix anything at all, which means to me it didn't need to be fixed because it was working as intended.  Anyone who is flying right now had to do all the quests, you couldn't exploit from the pet to the mount without doing anything.</p><p>/shrug</p><p>They're already messing up by limiting the amount of repeatables you can do for faction each day and other stupid decisions making this game even worse because I hate being locked out of progression by artificial means.</p><p>So again, let them "punish" people for this with your amazing recommendations, probably doing anything who is flying today a favor in the long run anyway.</p><p>Also:  I never said I have my mount yet, you're assuming.  I'm just saying I know for a fact that all the flying mount bugs were reported during the beta.</p></blockquote><p>I love it when you get defensive over your exploits. Look I didnt need to assume anything when you specifically said "They can do what they want but if they ever punish me for doing something that was reported in beta by numerous people I know I won't be playing this game anymore."</p><p>This is you implying you exploited.</p><p>Doing all the quests had nothing to do with the fact you intenionally skipped the 18hour delay on each step. That is the exploit. The exploit you claimed you KNEW about in beta. The exploit you claimed you KNEW was a bug in beta and then sent bug reports about. The devs and senior producer stated several times was intended to be a 5 day reward. Claiming ignorance at this point doesnt do you any favors.</p><p>So yes punishing people that exploit is a deterrant from them exploiting again. Especially those who are suppose to be beta testing instead of trying to find exploits so they can use when an expansion goes live.  A 30-60 day removal of flight access on a toon is a perfectly acceptable and non permanant deterence to discourage exploiters such as yourself.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p></p><p><div><p>Like?</p><p>Do you mean in RoK when I got my own guildies banned for exploiting leveling?  How about in SF when I got my own guildies stripped/suspended for duping in BGs?  How about in SF when I got the poisoned wave respawns fixed despite some of my own guildies using them to level?</p><p>Any real examples or you just talking out of what you should be sitting on?</p></div></p></blockquote><p>tranquility loot exploit 3 princes loot exploitshard of hate loot exploitSeveral item exploits</p><p>You pick and choose what you think is an exploit and only get mad when it doesnt benefit you.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>  Some devs fixed things quickly some fixed things slowly and some didn't fix anything at all, which means to me it didn't need to be fixed because it was working as intended.  </blockquote><p>are you really that naive that even though it was stated multiple times in many different formats that the mount was intended to take several days to complete.  It was stated that there was to be 18 hours between each quest.    If you or anyone else did anything to speed that process up then that was the exploit.  Sure they had to do all the quests but if they bypassed the 18 hour wait between doing them they exploited.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p></blockquote><p>I agree I am completely surprised SOE continues to reinvite the same people who exploit over and over to beta. And feign surprise when they exploit again.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just because it wasnt fixed does not = working as intended</p></blockquote><p>Says who?  Of the flying mount bugs that were reported all of the others were fixed.  It shouldn't have went live if it wasn't intended and if they ban people for doing ACTUALLY DOING THE QUESTS its beyond silly.</p><p>Comparing it to item duping is also lol.</p><p><div><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>tranquility loot exploit </p><p>3 princes loot exploitshard of hate loot exploitSeveral item exploits</p><p>You pick and choose what you think is an exploit and only get mad when it doesnt benefit you.</p></blockquote><p>I wasn't in Confirmed when they did the Tranquility exploit.</p><p>I wasn't in Dissolution when they did the Shard of Hate sisters exploit.</p><p>No idea on 3 Princes or the "several item exploits" either.</p></div></p>

[Liavy]

<p>Artificial lockout between quests was a terrible idea anyway. Save your time trying to dig through logs and just remove the restriction altogether for a day, or permanently. It's pretty silly that such a ridiculous idea as this 18 hours between quests made it through beta anyway despite the feedback. Also silly that such an exploit that I myself also reported several times in several different ways made it to live.</p><p>Time to take some responsibility for your mistakes and compensate for them imo.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just because it wasnt fixed does not = working as intended</p></blockquote><p>Says who?  Of the flying mount bugs that were reported all of the others were fixed.  It shouldn't have went live if it wasn't intended and if they ban people for doing ACTUALLY DOING THE QUESTS its beyond silly.</p><p>Comparing it to item duping is also lol.</p></blockquote><p>Seriously your logic is severly flawed man.. you KNEW and everyone else knows that the quests where made to be done 18 hours apart.  There where specific things you had to do to get the quests done early.. That is pure definition of Exploiting..</p>

[Gaige]

<p><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, don't get the players in beta that break things and report them.  That'd be a great, worthwhile beta test, wouldn't it?</p></div></p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><div><p>I wasn't in Confirmed when they did the Tranquility exploit.</p><p>I wasn't in Dissolution when they did the Shard of Hate sisters exploit.</p><p>No idea on 3 Princes or the "several item exploits" either.</p></div></p></blockquote><p>3 princes was the leave adds up to respawn the encounter and get loot exploit. And several item exploits are mostly related to obtaining effects on items when you dont wear them.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just because it wasnt fixed does not = working as intended</p></blockquote><p>Says who?  Of the flying mount bugs that were reported all of the others were fixed.  It shouldn't have went live if it wasn't intended and if they ban people for doing ACTUALLY DOING THE QUESTS its beyond silly.</p><p>Comparing it to item duping is also lol.</p></blockquote><p>I seriously hope if you did Explot this you get the mount removed and a weeks ban.  Playing stupid is not an excuse for exploiting.  If everyone else has to do the quest by normal means: IE waiting the 18 hours between quests like it was intended than so should you.  Anything else was an exploit.  You cant even play dumb because you already stated you knew it existed.  Anythign else you say is you trying to justify why you exploited it.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>3 princes was the leave adds up to respawn the encounter and get loot exploit. </p><p>And several item exploits are mostly related to obtaining effects on items when you dont wear them.</p></blockquote><p>None of which I was a part of, lol.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, don't get the players in beta that break things and report them.  That'd be a great, worthwhile beta test, wouldn't it?</p></div></blockquote><p>there are plenty of us who play in beta, spend countless hours filling out bug reports.  But we dont come to live and then exploit things that arent intended.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I seriously hope if you did Explot this you get the mount removed and a weeks ban. </p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I hope SOE is smarter than that and realizes that in the scheme of things banning people over something so trivial is silly.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I seriously hope if you did Explot this you get the mount removed and a weeks ban. </p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I hope SOE is smarter than that and realizes that in the scheme of things banning people over something so trivial is silly.</p></blockquote><p>I agree but unflagging accounts from flight for 60 days is completely exceptable.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I seriously hope if you did Explot this you get the mount removed and a weeks ban. </p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I hope SOE is smarter than that and realizes that in the scheme of things banning people over something so trivial is silly.</p></blockquote><p>I agree but unflagging accounts from flight for 60 days is completely exceptable.</p></blockquote><p>This works as well.  Bottom line HE and everyone else that exploited to get the mount early needs to have somethign done for said exploit.  cheating every other player who plays the game the right way out of discos, bragging rights, and right of passage is unacceptable.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>None of those things matter.  The in-game economy, account security, etc.  That matters.  A disco?  Flying five days early?  Not at all.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>None of those things matter.  The in-game economy, account security, etc.  That matters.  A disco?  Flying five days early?  Not at all.</p></blockquote><p>and the popes not catholic</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Look at the history of EQ2.  Bannings and serious punishment only when its like item dupes, stolen accounts, etc.  Those are the things SOE takes seriously.  Not doing quests and getting a disco.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look at the history of EQ2.  Bannings and serious punishment only when its like item dupes, stolen accounts, etc.  Those are the things SOE takes seriously.  Not doing quests and getting a disco.</p></blockquote><p>Is that why you felt entilted to use the exploit because you didnt fear reprecussion?</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look at the history of EQ2.  Bannings and serious punishment only when its like item dupes, stolen accounts, etc.  Those are the things SOE takes seriously.  Not doing quests and getting a disco.</p></blockquote><p>This isnt just any quest.  This is flying mounts.  Something Everquest 2 has never had.  And you my friend and everyone else who did it, have just cheapened the expirence for all of us who are doing it the intended way.  There is nothign simple about that.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is that why you felt entilted to use the exploit because you didnt fear reprecussion?</p></blockquote><p>Just lol.  I don't exploit, my history speaks for itself.  If I have a mount its because I didn't feel like it was an exploit.</p><p><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This isnt just any quest.  This is flying mounts.  Something Everquest 2 has never had. </p></blockquote><p>Its a solo quest series that takes an hour.  It isn't a big deal.</p></div></p>

[Xill]

<p>Well since you are getting something in a way that was not intended its the definition of an exploit. You exploited the fact that if you take this action you will get a reward before it was meant to be given to you. Regardless of how you feel. </p><p>While I fully expect it to be completely ignored that it was exploited and it will be fixed I think it would be HILARIOUS if they suspended accounts that did this. 3 days would be enough. Nothing sever.</p><p>But you obviously exploited something that regardless of whether it was a known bug or not, you know shouldnt have been exploited. Trying to justify it makes you sound like a tool.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is that why you felt entilted to use the exploit because you didnt fear reprecussion?</p></blockquote><p>Just lol.  I don't exploit, my history speaks for itself.  If I have a mount its because<span style="font-size: x-large;"><strong> I didn't feel like it was an exploit.</strong></span></p><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This isnt just any quest.  This is flying mounts.  Something Everquest 2 has never had. </p></blockquote><p>Its a solo quest series that takes an hour.  It isn't a big deal.</p></div></blockquote><p>highlight your opinion.. just becasue you didnt feel it was an exploit doenst mean it wasnt. You knew about it in beta and chose to do it here even after it was stated that the quests where INTENDED to be 18 hours apart.</p><p>#@ Actually yes it is a big deal Flying mount where a HUGE selling point for the expansion.. Zone ceilings reworked just for them.. You cheated all of us who play the game the properer way, and now you try and justify it simply amazing.  Ive lost any respect for you .</p>

[Monotone]

<p>who cares? why so mad bro</p>

[Tajiro]

<p>Because "you" didn't feel like it was an exploit? At what point did you become above the EULA. It isn't about what you feel. It's about right and wrong, and you know it. Stop trying to justify your actions. You KNEW it was a bug, you said so yourself, you reported it.</p><p>To sit there and say that is must not be a bug because no one fixed it is complete hog wash. Stop hiding behind convenient naievity. To call you naieve is incorrect, you aren't. You know what you did, you know it was wrong. SoE doesn't need your business if what you "feel" should be the EULA and what SoE and their lawyers created means nothing to you.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well since you are getting something in a way that was not intended its the definition of an exploit.</p></blockquote><p>So then ban all the people grinding AA in The Hole/Sebilis.  </p><p>They're hotfixing the XP gain in both zones tomorrow.  Velious zones are intended to be the best xp.  Yet, despite of that, players took advantage of the easy XP in those zones and are already at 300 AA.</p><p>A much more serious "exploit" and yet I doubt SOE does anything about it other than changing the XP.</p><p>Similiarly they should fix the flying mount and not punish anyone.</p><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ive lost any respect for you .</p></blockquote><p>Hopefully I can sleep tonight.</p><p><div><p><cite>Tajiro@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SoE doesn't need your business if what you "feel" should be the EULA and what SoE and their lawyers created means nothing to you.</p></blockquote><p>You speak for SOE and their lawyers?</p></div></p></div>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, don't get the players in beta that break things and report them.  That'd be a great, worthwhile beta test, wouldn't it?</p></div></blockquote><p>there are plenty of us who play in beta, spend countless hours filling out bug reports.  But we dont come to live and then exploit things that arent intended.</p></blockquote><p>Yup I agree with the above.</p><p>But.</p><p>If it was reported as a bug in beta why still class it as an exploit? It should of been fixed before going live.An exploit in my mind is cheating without SoE's knowledge.</p><p>If people used an 'exploit' to get the mount early, as much as I don't agree with it I don't think any action should be taken against them....   </p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Baubo@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, don't get the players in beta that break things and report them.  That'd be a great, worthwhile beta test, wouldn't it?</p></div></blockquote><p>there are plenty of us who play in beta, spend countless hours filling out bug reports.  But we dont come to live and then exploit things that arent intended.</p></blockquote><p>Yup I agree with the above.</p><p>But.</p><p>If it was reported as a bug in beta why still class it as an exploit? It should of been fixed before going live.An exploit in my mind is cheating without SoE's knowledge.</p><p>If people used an 'exploit' to get the mount early, as much as I don't agree with it I don't think any action should be taken against them....   </p></blockquote><p>becasue you had to use unintended means to complete the quests and get the mount.</p>

[Tajiro]

<p>People who are grinding in the Hole for experience, isnt an exploit, it is what it is. What you did though, is way worse. This expansion brought two things to EQ2, Velious and flying mounts. You have no clue what your effect on people was when they saw you on your flying mount...Most people probably didn't care in all honesty, but I bet there were more than a handful who felt betrayed by SoE because here they are playing by the rules, and here you are, flying freely, clearly exploiting a major portion of the expansion ans seemingly without recourse.</p><p>To answer your question, yes, I will speak for those who are unable to speak for themselves. If they want to deny or refute what I have to say in their defense, than they will. They are big boys, and so are you. It's time to bow your head and accept your punishment, whatever SoE deems is appropriate. If you exploit a tax loophole, you know what the punishment is? Even if you feel it is ok because you said something and government regulators didnt get to it right away? At least in your case, this isn't a legal loophole you found your way into....</p>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Baubo@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><p><cite>Padeshar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I was SOE I would even make sure those beta testers who did exploit this do not get future beta invites.</p><p>I will be really suprised to see SOE actually do something about this though.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, don't get the players in beta that break things and report them.  That'd be a great, worthwhile beta test, wouldn't it?</p></div></blockquote><p>there are plenty of us who play in beta, spend countless hours filling out bug reports.  But we dont come to live and then exploit things that arent intended.</p></blockquote><p>Yup I agree with the above.</p><p>But.</p><p>If it was reported as a bug in beta why still class it as an exploit? It should of been fixed before going live.An exploit in my mind is cheating without SoE's knowledge.</p><p>If people used an 'exploit' to get the mount early, as much as I don't agree with it I don't think any action should be taken against them....   </p></blockquote><p>becasue you had to use unintended means to complete the quests and get the mount.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I know it's wrong but SoE knew about it before going live.</p><p>I'm waiting for the crowd to die down before starting my quest lol.</p>

[Tajiro]

<p>I will just say this in closing. You are a highly respected individual within the world of Norrath. I am a quiet spectator compared to. You have put in your dues, you are absolutely correct in that regard. Which means you have somwhat of a celebretry status. Which means if anything, you should be setting the standard. You are human though, and as humans we all make mistakes, even if we don't feel it is a mistake. I hope in your case that you dont receive a ban or anything, because this game obviously means a great deal to you. I guess from where I sit, I feel what you did is wrong, but in the end, it is just a game...</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Tajiro@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People who are grinding in the Hole for experience, isnt an exploit, it is what it is. What you did though, is way worse. This expansion brought two things to EQ2, Velious and flying mounts.</p></blockquote><p>Just sigh.  How can people's grasp of things be so skewed.</p>

[Tajiro]

<p>Explain yourself, how is my grasp of things skewed? Obviously I know that this expansion brought more than just two things, maybe I should have used better wording. Or are you reaching again? Exactly what are you reaching for? Are you still trying justify using what you feel wasn't an exploit? You are in a top tier guild, you won't have any repercussions, but that doesn't mean that what you did is justifiable. The mafia was untouchable during prohibition, but they still broke the law. Right is right and wrong is wrong dude. You can paint it however you like, put a pig with lipstick is still a pig.</p>

[Tajiro]

<p>Anyhow, I prolly wont see this post again after this. Peace out Gaige, lots of love for you and what you do, but in this situation, this particular case, what you did is very uncool.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>In that you easily dismiss xp exploiting for AA, which is progression, which matters but fixate on a solo quest for a flying mount.</p><p>Especially since the same dev that posted about this posted about the <em>unintended</em> xp that old zones was giving and the fact that they're <em>fixing</em> it tomorrow.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<p><cite>Waters wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: x-large;">There was an exploit</span></strong> with the flying mount quest that made it possible to do the quest much faster than intended.  If you see someone flying already, this is the most likely reason for it. </p><p>- Waters</p></blockquote><p>in case anyone missed the pink elephant in the room!!!</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>I say go for it, they should have fixed it. they just outright admitted to knowing it existed.</p><p>Devs not fixing known exploits is AT LEAST just as bad as players utilizing them, and imo much, much worse. The devs knowing about the exploit then purposely just letting it slip knowing people would use it would be better than not fixing it then getting people in trouble over it.</p><p>Also i'm baffled people want to punish players instead of yelling at the devs for not fixing a bug they knew about for weeks. Just, wow.... If someone robbed my house, and a cop knew it was going to happen for a fact 3 weeks before the event, I'd would be much more [Removed for Content] at the cop than the robber.</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just sigh.  How can people's grasp of things be so skewed.</p></blockquote><p>Are you honestly suggesting that you genuinely thought that SOE wanted you to gain the mount but wanted everyone else to take days to get it? Because that's what "intended" means. It means they wanted you to do it. They intended it.</p><p>And pointing out other things you consider an exploit doesn't negate the fact that you exploited here. Knowingly. You knew this was a bug (you reported it). You knew that the quest was intended to take days. You knew that SOE did not want you to use an exploit you found in BETA to do something others were not doing.</p><p>You might not find discos a big deal, but other players do. So why did you take something you don't find important from people that do find it important. That seems to be the epitomy of disrespect.</p><p>Other people respected the rules and because you did this exploit, you took away a part (even if it's small) of their enjoyment.</p><p>I'm sure you're a good player and I fully believe you when you say you don't exploit because I have no reason to believe otherwise. But in this one instance, you did - in fact - exploit. You can try to rationalize it all day, but you know and every other person on this thread knows that you got your mount earlier than intended and you took discos from people that were playing honestly.</p><p>It might not be a big deal and I'm not even saying you deserve to be banned for it. Probably not. But I do think you should at least own up to what you've done. Whether it's a big deal or not a big deal, it was wrong. I'm not judging you for it. You're a human being. And like I said, in the greater scheme of things, you're probably right in that it's not a big deal.</p><p>But now, afterward, do you genuinely believe you've not done anything wrong? At all? And I'm not talking about anything you did to SOE. I'm talking about taking away other players' fair chance at obtaining discos. The lack of accountability for that action (no matter how small) is what people are reacting to.</p><p>"It's not a big deal to me" isn't an excuse."They should have fixed this bug when I reported it," isn't an excuse.</p><p>You did wrong, man. You didn't do anything horrible here, but I think people are reacting to you because of your lack of accountability more than the action itself.</p>

[Lantis]

<p>Why not simply take their mount away, and force them to earn it back the very same way everyone else will be.  Will be fair for everyone, and would avoid attacks and name-calling sent left and right.  I don't think this is worth a ban - I have witnessed far worse being done, with only a warning issued to the person's account.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you honestly suggesting that you genuinely thought that SOE wanted you to gain the mount but wanted everyone else to take days to get it? Because that's what "intended" means. It means they wanted you to do it. They intended it.</p></blockquote><p>I'm saying that if they chose not to fix it, as they did, despite fixing other bugs associated with the flying mount quest, then who am I to know what is intended and what isn't.  They leave questionable things in all the time for reasons no one understands.</p><p>I quit questioning why and what SOE does a long time ago.</p>

[Darkor]

<p>So Gaige got to exploit the mount quest and has it allready 2 days after launch even tho it was meant to take 5 days to finish the quest line? IF that isnt an exploit, my name is jesus. He should have his mount removed and due the grade of the exploit be suspended for a week or two. I know this is not as bad as duping plat, so a 2 week ban should be more than enough.</p><p>I can only encourage people petitioning other people who are flying allready, including Gaige. Because im gonna do that later when im at home.</p>

[Selantyr]

<p>Wait a minute.  Wait just a minute.  You mean to tell me that Gaige failed to set his own 18-hour timer after completing each training quest and as a result got his flying mount four (4!) days before me?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;">Oh, the humanity!</span></p>

[Gaige]

<p>WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ME!  We are talking about a generic exploit, not me!</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you honestly suggesting that you genuinely thought that SOE wanted you to gain the mount but wanted everyone else to take days to get it? Because that's what "intended" means. It means they wanted you to do it. They intended it.</p></blockquote><p>I'm saying that if they chose not to fix it, as they did, despite fixing other bugs associated with the flying mount quest, then who am I to know what is intended and what isn't.  They leave questionable things in all the time for reasons no one understands.</p><p>I quit questioning why and what SOE does a long time ago.</p></blockquote><p>That didn't answer my question. When you did that quest and saw that everyone else was having to wait for days, and you knew in BETA that it wasn't intended to the point that you reported it... are you honestly - in your heart of hearts - suggesting that you truly thought SOE wanted you to use the knowledge you gained from BETA and use that to get discos and prevent other players from having any chance at them?</p><p>I'm just asking for clarification, here. You honestly thought SOE <strong>wanted </strong>you to do that?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and you knew in BETA that it wasn't intended to the point that you reported it... </p></blockquote><p>NO.  I <em>assumed</em> that isn't what they wanted people to do, reported it <em>and other bugs associated with it</em> and they fixed some and didn't fix others.  At which point I quit assuming since they had obviously made their decision and that was that.</p><p>They're are SOE, I'm just a player.</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They can do what they want but if they ever punish me for doing something that was reported in beta by numerous people I know I won't be playing this game anymore.</p></blockquote><p>Please oh please powers that be, penalize those who exploited the system.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please oh please powers that be, penalize those who exploited the system.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly if SOE values solo quest discos over six year veterans of their game, I'd probably be better off if they banned me.</p>

[Selantyr]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: large;">HANG 'EM HIGH!</span></p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and you knew in BETA that it wasn't intended to the point that you reported it... </p></blockquote><p>NO.  I <em>assumed</em> that isn't what they wanted people to do, reported it <em>and other bugs associated with it</em> and they fixed some and didn't fix others.  At which point I quit assuming since they had obviously made their decision and that was that.</p><p>They're are SOE, I'm just a player.</p></blockquote><p>So you are saying you honestly thought this was what they wanted? When everybody else was having to wait and you were taking the discos that other players could not get, you genuinely believed this was what SOE wanted you to do?</p><p>You still haven't answered that one question.</p>

[Selantyr]

<p>The withering cross-examination continues....</p><p>When will Colonel Jessup break?</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Selantyr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The withering cross-examination continues....</p><p>When will Colonel Jessup break?</p></blockquote><p>DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED!</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When everybody else was having to wait </p></blockquote><p>If one player can do it, any player can do it.</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please oh please powers that be, penalize those who exploited the system.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly if SOE values solo quest discos over six year veterans of their game, I'd probably be better off if they banned me.</p></blockquote> So now your saying if they ban you or penalize you for openly exploiting the quest for one of the major selling points of this expansion your gonna quit??? That's like Lindsay Lohan saying she returned the necklace so she shouldn't face charges. Everyone who exploited this quest and got their mounts early deserves some degree of punishment. At the very least take the mount away and make you start over.

[GlitterPaws]

<p>Good Grief! After all these years y'all are just figuring out Gaige is a cyber bully? The exploit he is so proud of is no less than cyper [Removed for Content] the entire player base who was not aware of the beta bug. Gaige has show it's true colors with this latest action.</p><p>Taking away it's flight ability would accomplish absolutely nothing.</p><p>The developers should remove restrictions from each and every paying account.</p><p>Now.</p>

[Eugam]

<p>LOL</p><p>Here is a hint from a beta player: Play the game as intended. Do *not* run to the villiage one minute after you logged in, follow the questlines until you end up in the village. This way the whole solo storylines make more sense and you ll probably find some "things" you'll miss when doing them on a flying mount.</p><p>Definetely wait with the "healer buckler" HQ till you got the mount <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Much more fun this way <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>In that regard it doesnt matter if some got it allready. I not even have been to Thurgadin, still busy with solo and crafter timelines. While others seem to PUG through all instances allready. To each its own.</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When everybody else was having to wait </p></blockquote><p>If one player can do it, any player can do it.</p></blockquote><p>I give up. Your refusal to answer is answer enough. I don't know why I'm working so hard to get you to admit to something that you know and every other person in this thread knows is true. You knew they didn't want you to do it, and yet you did it anyway because you thought your rationalization of that act was a loophole. It wasn't.</p><p>The funny part is I agree with you that in the greater scheme of things this isn't a big deal. I don't think you should be banned for it.</p><p>But I do think you exploited and in doing so cheated others out of a fair shot at discos. They did the quests as they were intended and their reward was you cheating them out of a fair shot of achieving those discos.</p><p>And your absolute refusal to admit that you did anything wrong (no matter how small) is a flat insult to every single player that played by the rules, far more insulting than the action itself. </p><p>Big deal? Probably not. But it was wrong, and every single person in this thread (including you) knows it was wrong. An admission of that would change many people's mind about the entire thing.</p><p>But with that, I'm done. Again, I don't know why I'm working so hard to get you to say something everyone already knows.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SO an exploit goes through and people knew about it and then exploited it. Seems to me that warrants a nice 30-60day removal of flight. Its not permanant and should help encourage people not to exploit.</p></blockquote><p>They can do what they want but if they ever punish me for doing something that was reported in beta by numerous people I know I won't be playing this game anymore.</p><p>IMO it isn't even an exploit.  Duping coin?  Sure.  Leveling exploits?  Okay.  Doing quests as intended for a reward?  Not an exploit.  If it wasn't intended why didn't they fix it since I know for a fact this bug and numerous others were sent along during beta.  Bugged/reported and not fixed = working as intended in my book.  I donated tons of hours testing DoV, to be punished for SOE's lack of action would be an insult.</p></blockquote><p>That's the most shallow and ignorant reasoning that I've ever read.  I knew your lucidity could only last so long.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>GlitterPaws wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The exploit he is so proud of is no less than cyper [Removed for Content] the entire player base who was not aware of the beta bug.</p></blockquote><p>To compare finishing a quest to sexual assault, even virtual, is doing a disservice to anyone who has ever been a victim of the actual act.</p><div><p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do *not* run to the villiage one minute after you logged in</p></blockquote><p>I didn't.  I did the ToFS, got to the last mob which was broken and then started the [Removed for Content] questlines!</p></div>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you honestly suggesting that you genuinely thought that SOE wanted you to gain the mount but wanted everyone else to take days to get it? Because that's what "intended" means. It means they wanted you to do it. They intended it.</p></blockquote><p>I'm saying that if they chose not to fix it, as they did, despite fixing other bugs associated with the flying mount quest, then who am I to know what is intended and what isn't.  They leave questionable things in all the time for reasons no one understands.</p><p>I quit questioning why and what SOE does a long time ago.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry I agree with the Overlord of Unrest which saddens me to a point.</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">SoE were not clueless to the bug</span></strong>. It should of been fixed before going live and it wasn't.</p><p>The end.</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do *not* run to the villiage one minute after you logged in</p></blockquote><p>I didn't.  I did the ToFS, got to the last mob which was broken and then started the [Removed for Content] questlines!</p></div></blockquote><p>I wasnt aiming at you.I dont mind it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was one of the few in beta who thought the new feature is overrated <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Just wanted to give a hint to "the masses" playing out there. I see people asking for the loc of the village every 10 minutes. I understand they want to get it asap. But the gaming experience is a bit better with some patience <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do *not* run to the villiage one minute after you logged in</p></blockquote><p>I didn't.  I did the ToFS, got to the last mob which was broken and then started the [Removed for Content] questlines!</p></div></blockquote><p>I wasnt aiming at you.I dont mind it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> I was one of the few in beta who thought the new feature is overrated <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Just wanted to give a hint to "the masses" playing out there. I see people asking for the loc of the village every 10 minutes. I understand they want to get it asap. But the gaming experience is a bit better with some patience <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Baubo@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you honestly suggesting that you genuinely thought that SOE wanted you to gain the mount but wanted everyone else to take days to get it? Because that's what "intended" means. It means they wanted you to do it. They intended it.</p></blockquote><p>I'm saying that if they chose not to fix it, as they did, despite fixing other bugs associated with the flying mount quest, then who am I to know what is intended and what isn't.  They leave questionable things in all the time for reasons no one understands.</p><p>I quit questioning why and what SOE does a long time ago.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry I agree with the Overlord of Unrest which saddens me to a point.</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">SoE were not clueless to the bug</span></strong>. It should of been fixed before going live and it wasn't.</p><p>The end.</p></blockquote><p>Just because they didn't fix it doesn't mean they supported it. At all. He said that he believed this was working as intended. That's nonsense. Every post about the mounts - before and after - said it would take days to complete. Just because they didn't get to fixing it sooner does not mean it's what they wanted. That's absolutely silly.</p><p>And note that I've said multiple times I don't think he should be banned for this and I don't think it's a big deal. But it is - by definition - an exploit. And leaving SOE out of it, are you suggesting it's fair for him to use an exploit that he only knew about because he was in BETA? Completely unrelated to SOE, that's cheating players out of disco. If you kill-steal a mob that someone else is camping, SOE isn't going to stop you. But that doesn't mean you're a good person by doing it.</p>

[Selantyr]

<p>I vote for no punishment for Gaige and an increase in the timer between quests for me and everyone else to 48 hours.  The hyperbole (cyber [Removed for Content]?), hysteria and whining is too entertaining to have end in a mere few days.  No Justice No Peace!</p>

[GlitterPaws]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GlitterPaws wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The exploit he is so proud of is no less than cyper [Removed for Content] the entire player base who was not aware of the beta bug.</p></blockquote><p>To compare finishing a quest to sexual assault, even virtual, is doing a disservice to anyone who has ever been a victim of the actual act.</p></blockquote><p>Uh, No. It is not. I've been calling hackers and cyber bullies by the term cyber [Removed for Content] for years. This, from one who carried a business card with the title Computer Hacker when hacking was respectable. This from one who has experienced a disgusting, violent assualt that will never leave my muscle memory let alone my emotional memory.</p><p>Virtual assualt has been around for years. It is as unacceptable as physical assualt.</p><p>Exploits such as the flying mount exploit are cyber assualts.</p>

[Selantyr]

<p>PS  Is Unrest up yet?  Now there's something to get worked up about.</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p><cite>Selantyr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I vote for no punishment for Gaige and an increase in the timer between quests for me and everyone else to 48 hours.  The hyperbole (cyber [Removed for Content]?), hysteria and whining is too entertaining to have end in a mere few days.  No Justice No Peace!</p></blockquote><p>Sounds good to me. Don't mistake my inability to resist posting for me caring on any kind of personal level. My highest character is 80, so it's not like I even have a horse in this race. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The issue didn't draw me in. It's the "I told him an hour ago that his cash register was open, so when I took all the money from it, it really wasn't stealing" defense that drew me in.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Selantyr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I vote for no punishment for Gaige and an increase in the timer between quests for me and everyone else to 48 hours.  The hyperbole (cyber [Removed for Content]?), hysteria and whining is too entertaining to have end in a mere few days.  No Justice No Peace!</p></blockquote><p>Best post of my lifetime.</p>

[silkness]

<p><cite>GlitterPaws wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Exploits such as the flying mount exploit are cyber assualts.</p></blockquote><p>exactly how does gaige being able to fly play out as an assault on you?</p>

[Selantyr]

<p><cite>GlitterPaws wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GlitterPaws wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The exploit he is so proud of is no less than cyper [Removed for Content] the entire player base who was not aware of the beta bug.</p></blockquote><p>To compare finishing a quest to sexual assault, even virtual, is doing a disservice to anyone who has ever been a victim of the actual act.</p></blockquote><p>Uh, No. It is not. I've been calling hackers and cyber bullies by the term cyber [Removed for Content] for years. This, from one who carried a business card with the title Computer Hacker when hacking was respectable. This from one who has experienced a disgusting, violent assualt that will never leave my muscle memory let alone my emotional memory.</p><p>Virtual assualt has been around for years. It is as unacceptable as physical assualt.</p><p>Exploits such as the flying mount exploit are cyber assualts.</p></blockquote><p>GlitterPaws shows the bonafides:  a hacker and an assault victim.  Who can now question the assertions that follow?</p><p>Finishing a quest earlier than intended = [Removed for Content]/physical assaulting?</p><p>Let's think about it for a minute and have a show of hands.</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Selantyr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I vote for no punishment for Gaige and an increase in the timer between quests for me and everyone else to 48 hours.  The hyperbole (cyber [Removed for Content]?), hysteria and whining is too entertaining to have end in a mere few days.  No Justice No Peace!</p></blockquote><p>Drown him in the acid lakes !!!!</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Selantyr]

<p>Too bad we don't have Thunderdome.  "Bust a Deal, Face the Wheel."  We could put him on the back of a donkey and send him out into the Sinking Sands with a big clown mask on his head.</p>

[Darkor]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please oh please powers that be, penalize those who exploited the system.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly if SOE values solo quest discos over six year veterans of their game, I'd probably be better off if they banned me.</p></blockquote><p>What exactly does it matter if you are a 6 year veteran or not? There shouldnt be double standards at all. You exploited something obvious, i know you are trying to talk arround it but anyone with a bit of common sense knows that what you did was wrong. Do you believe all these people using the bug in bgs to dupe plat didnt know it? they did know it and still did it. You knew it was wrong to get arround the timer and still kept going on. I dont believe you should be perma banned or anything in that direction. Duping plat or exploiting the hell out of broken encounter for loot is way worse. But i still believe you should have your mount and quests removed aswell as a 7-14 day ban lifted on your account. Sadly this is not my decission, but i truly hope that SoE does not judge with double standards because everyone should have the same consequences for doing something wrong.</p><p>To the person saying that SoE knew about it and didnt fix it, who cares? SoE is lazy nowdays, their reactiontime is very slow nowdays. But that does NOT give you the right to do anything that isnt supposed to work. Common sense should tell you that.</p>

[Gromk]

<p>SOE had knowledge of the ability to get the mount in under 18 hours per quest.  SOE chose not to fix this before going live. </p><p>Sounds to me like people are upset someone else has something they don't. </p>

[Griffildur]

<p>Personally I didn't even start the griffon quests and don't have a clue about any exploit. But i look at this thread and wonder ... why the hell do ppl care if some1 else is flying ? Everyone will get their flying mounts at some point.</p><p>Ok so it was a bug, was reported and it wasn't fixed ... big deal, move on. Stop caring so much what others do and just play the [Removed for Content] game. What  a bunch of whinners.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Darkor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly does it matter if you are a 6 year veteran or not?</p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>Maybe it doesn't matter.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<p><cite>Darkor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please oh please powers that be, penalize those who exploited the system.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly if SOE values solo quest discos over six year veterans of their game, I'd probably be better off if they banned me.</p></blockquote><p>What exactly does it matter if you are a 6 year veteran or not? There shouldnt be double standards at all. You exploited something obvious, i know you are trying to talk arround it but anyone with a bit of common sense knows that what you did was wrong. Do you believe all these people using the bug in bgs to dupe plat didnt know it? they did know it and still did it. You knew it was wrong to get arround the timer and still kept going on. I dont believe you should be perma banned or anything in that direction. Duping plat or exploiting the hell out of broken encounter for loot is way worse. But i still believe you should have your mount and quests removed aswell as a 7-14 day ban lifted on your account. Sadly this is not my decission, but i truly hope that SoE does not judge with double standards because everyone should have the same consequences for doing something wrong.</p><p>To the person saying that SoE knew about it and didnt fix it, who cares? SoE is lazy nowdays, their reactiontime is very slow nowdays. But that does NOT give you the right to do anything that isnt supposed to work. Common sense should tell you that.</p></blockquote><p>It matters because Gaige is 100% okay with exploits, as long as they benefit him.  He's a typical entitled brat.  Notice how he immediately changed the subject to Sebilis and the Hole, trying to get attention off of himself and off of the original issue brought up in this thread?  The fact of the matter is that people who are getting mounts already are exploiting a broken mechanic.  The fact that someone may or may not have bugged it in beta doesn't make any difference.  Four year-olds say "But I told you and you didn't do anything, so it's okay."  Rational adults should know better.  Gaige, however, has proven himself to not be rational, time and time again.  Arguing with him is like arguing with a chihuaha.  He's just going to bark and puff himself up until you ignore him.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p>In order to have a strong opinion and rant on one side or another, I need to know what the explot actually was. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If it was wacky complicated, required that you strip naked, evac, and while zoning crash your client deliberatly, then same on people for using such an obvious explot.</p><p>If it was as simple as "find someone else with a pet, and hail their pet instead of yours", or something else you could easilly stumble over accidentally without even trying, then shame on SoE for leaving something like that in there.</p>

[Troubor]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SO an exploit goes through and people knew about it and then exploited it. Seems to me that warrants a nice 30-60day removal of flight. Its not permanant and should help encourage people not to exploit.</p></blockquote><p>They can do what they want but if they ever punish me for doing something that was reported in beta by numerous people I know I won't be playing this game anymore.</p><p>IMO it isn't even an exploit.  Duping coin?  Sure.  Leveling exploits?  Okay.  Doing quests as intended for a reward?  Not an exploit.  If it wasn't intended why didn't they fix it since I know for a fact this bug and numerous others were sent along during beta.  Bugged/reported and not fixed = working as intended in my book.  I donated tons of hours testing DoV, to be punished for SOE's lack of action would be an insult.</p></blockquote><p>Other people are commenting, but assuming you knew it was a bug during beta, which apparently you did, and then to exploit simply because it wasn't fixed is still taking advantage of an exploit.  If you wish to say they dropped the ball by not fixing it, even call them lazy fine.  I would myself.  But if you KNEW it was a bug, even if NOT fixed, then you did an exploit.  You took advantage of a bug you knew wasn't repaired.</p><p>Now if you honestly didn't know for some reason, then without trying to insult you I'd call you slightly clueless but I'd otherwise have no issue with you, you did something without knowing about it.  To be blunt and honest though I suspect this isn't the case, but I don't know every detail so all I can do is speculate.</p><p>I'm not trying to troll, nor am I trying to insult.  But if you knew it was a bug, even if not fixed until after the game went live, then it's an exploit, period.  Regardless of what you wish to try to say to whitewash it.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Tajiro@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People who are grinding in the Hole for experience, isnt an exploit, it is what it is</p></blockquote><p>They nerfed the hell out of that today too.</p>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5511033" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5511033</a> Insults are not permitted here.

[feldon30]

<p><cite>GlitterPaws wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The exploit he is so proud of is no less than cyper [Removed for Content] the entire player base who was not aware of the beta bug. Gaige has show it's true colors with this latest action.</p></blockquote><p>Picking up a quest while grouped is equivalent to sexual assault?</p><p>Where do I even begin with this.</p><p>Bugs like this should be prioritized to the top of the pile. And frankly, why didn't they put in an artificial 90 hour limit on flying just to be SURE nobody exploited?</p>

[Darkor]

<p><cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Personally I didn't even start the griffon quests and don't have a clue about any exploit. But i look at this thread and wonder ... why the hell do ppl care if some1 else is flying ? Everyone will get their flying mounts at some point.</p><p>Ok so it was a bug, was reported and it wasn't fixed ... big deal, move on. Stop caring so much what others do and just play the [Removed for Content] game. What  a bunch of whinners.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, when people started duping plat getting thousand of plats within minuts didnt effect me either. Should i now shut up and watch em do that? Hell NO!</p><p>When people abused the broken quest system in hole when SF launched, getting to lvl 90 within 15 minuts didnt affect me either. Should i tolerate that? NO.</p><p>Ths is the ONLY reason why i play a mmorpg. It has rules that EVERYONE has to obey. You want to cheat or godmode? Go play a single player game.</p><p>We all agree on the EULA everyday when logging in and we agree that this behavior is just wrong. Gaige trying to talk it down is so frigging funny when you usually see him reply to other people with his wanna be elitist attidude rude as hell, this is just a welcome pay back for him. Im gonna create a char on his server later and make sure to file a good long petition, you can count on that.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Duping items and plat affects everyone.  The SF leveling exploit wasn't Hole questing it was instantly respawning manta rays.</p><p><div><p><cite>Darkor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im gonna create a char on his server later and make sure to file a good long petition, you can count on that.</p></blockquote><p>You don't have to.  I emailed a developer at 2am last night when I realized this bug made it live.  So they know already.  I'm not sure what a petition would accomplish, can you even petition requesting other players be punished lol?</p></div></p>

[Darkor]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Duping items and plat affects everyone.  The SF leveling exploit wasn't Hole questing it was instantly respawning manta rays.</p><div><p><cite>Darkor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im gonna create a char on his server later and make sure to file a good long petition, you can count on that.</p></blockquote><p>You don't have to.  I emailed a developer at 2am last night when I realized this bug made it live.  So they know already.  I'm not sure what a petition would accomplish, can you even petition requesting other players be punished lol?</p></div></blockquote><p>I dont mean that bug, and yes petitioning other people that you caught exploiting brings consequences for the caught person...</p>

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think he should permantly disable flight for the exploiters cause it would be funny.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm, it sounds like these people have been exploiting based on the advantage gained from being in Beta, personally I didn't hear anything about this bug so it was not widely passed around, so if these people told a dev they didn't tell the rest of the players.Banning is a bit harsh, as its not something that's going to break the game (although the disco is annoying).Personally I think they should put some code in to randomly despawn their flight mounts for the next 2 weeks for people found to be using this exploit, that's playful, cruel and creative.  Plus it gives something fun back to the community <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Morghus]

<p>Or maybe they could have you know, fixed the bug sometime during the whole week or so after beta ended? Seriously, I wonder sometimes about our feedback. It isn't uncommon to /bug and /feedback the same issue every day only to see it go live or remain unchanged anyways. Stuff typically doesn't seem to be done unless directly shown to a developer via pm or the forums and even then it isnt always addressed.</p>

[Shareana]

<p>Locking this down as we do not discuss exploits on the forums nor do we Blacklist players here.  If you suspect someone of violating the ToS/EULA please be sure to file a /petition and let the GM's investigate the issue.  Thank you!</p>