All buffs must persist thru death

[Davngr1]

<p> on test only group buffs persist thru death, when the only buffs that really matter are single target buffs.   once bards/chanters start buffing the entire raid, rebuffing 4 groups will prove cumbersome and will no doubt cause raids to just bring 8 - 12 chanters and bards any how.  </p><p>    so please stop pestering PvE with PvP problems because PvP and PVE where suppose to be seperate from day one..   IF not i want mah PvP falbed gear for tokens please! if you have to deal with the bad i want some of the good too..</p>

[Barx]

<p>Group buffs matter, not just single-target buffs. And I doubt it has anything to do with PVP.</p>

[Landiin]

Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..

[Rattfa]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so please stop pestering PvE with PvP problems because PvP and PVE where suppose to be seperate from day one..   IF not i want mah PvP falbed gear for tokens please! if you have to deal with the bad i want some of the good too..</p></blockquote><p>LOL</p><p>That's a good one!</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>Was really not as helpful as I had originally hoped. Pet classes get a ton of buffs, many are pet and single target only 2 are group so this didnt really help much.</p><p>Any chance we will see pet buffs persist through death?</p>

[Krooner]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Was really not as helpful as I had originally hoped. Pet classes get a ton of buffs, many are pet and single target only 2 are group so this didnt really help much.</p><p>Any chance we will see pet buffs persist through death?</p></blockquote><p>QFE. </p><p>This would be really nice.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>The pet would have to persist thru death in order for pet buffs to persist.</p><p>Not likely to happen.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The pet would have to persist thru death in order for pet buffs to persist.</p><p>Not likely to happen.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, I thought about that too. I may have mentioned this before or just thought it . . . not sure which but  . . .</p><p>Would be nice if dimensional storage would store a copy of the pet with buffs currently on it. That way you could buff your pet THEN put a copy in storage. If you die with a pet in storage you pull it out, copy it back to dimensional storage and ready to go. Wouldnt be perfect but would definitely help, imo anyway.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p><p> <p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Group buffs matter, not just single-target buffs. And I doubt it has anything to do with PVP.</p></blockquote>it would feed in to the "zerg" mentallity something that sux in pve but mega sux in pvp. </p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Was really not as helpful as I had originally hoped. Pet classes get a ton of buffs, many are pet and single target only 2 are group so this didnt really help much.</p><p>Any chance we will see pet buffs persist through death?</p></blockquote><p>i guess they could consolidate pet buffs into just 2 buffs one off one def  but i don't think it's that big of a deal tbh.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The pet would have to persist thru death in order for pet buffs to persist.</p><p>Not likely to happen.</p></blockquote><p>Pet doesn't have to. Dunno if it's a bug or not but on my coercer's PE's pet, if I zone, camp, etc. while I have a pet up, those buffs stay up and immediately apply to the next pet.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>There should be some penalty if you die surely. Everyone should have to rebuff after death. If you want your buffs to persist...dont die oO.</p><p>The idea that a dead person can somehow maintain a buff is absurd.</p><p>[EDIT] Oh is this PvP? Nevermind if so...</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so please stop pestering PvE with PvP problems because PvP and PVE where suppose to be seperate from day one..   IF not i want mah PvP falbed gear for tokens please! if you have to deal with the bad i want some of the good too..</p></blockquote><p>LOL</p><p>That's a good one!</p></blockquote><p>Tbh I see this buff persistence as detrimental to pvp as it makes zerging even easier. It will be convenient for raiding though.</p><p>I guess spitting on pvp makes you a cool guy <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There should be some penalty if you die surely. Everyone should have to rebuff after death. If you want your buffs to persist...dont die oO.</p><p>The idea that a dead person can somehow maintain a buff is absurd.</p><p>[EDIT] Oh is this PvP? Nevermind if so...</p></blockquote><p>new flash!    next expac bards and chanters will be able to buff an entire raid with their single target buffs!    this was done so thre would not have to be 8 or more bards/enchanter in a raid, so as to make room for other classes that currently have a HARD time finding a raid spot.   </p><p>   IF these buffs fall off every time the chanter/bard dies THEN raids will just keep the 8 bards/chanters so the entire raid won't loose buffs..    see why this needs to be changed?</p>

[Rattfa]

<p>Are you trying to tell us that bards/chanters no longer have concentration slots and will be individually buffing 23 other players each?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you trying to tell us that bards/chanters no longer have concentration slots and will be individually buffing 23 other players each?</p></blockquote><p>The plan is they will be able to buff 1 person per group with their specialized single target spells like Upbeat Tempo, Battlecry etc.</p>

[madha]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you trying to tell us that bards/chanters no longer have concentration slots and will be individually buffing 23 other players each?</p></blockquote><p>The plan is they will be able to buff 1 person per group with their specialized single target spells like Upbeat Tempo, Battlecry etc.</p></blockquote><p>Think soe might have bit off more then they can chew posting that these changes might happen, how many people rolled a bard or a illusionist just to raid, after expac they wont have a slot in raids anymore, and will have to roll a, GASP, conjy for debuffs.</p><p>Should make healers group heals raid wide so you only need like 4.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There should be some penalty if you die surely. Everyone should have to rebuff after death. If you want your buffs to persist...dont die oO.</p><p>The idea that a dead person can somehow maintain a buff is absurd.</p><p>[EDIT] Oh is this PvP? Nevermind if so...</p></blockquote><p>new flash!    next expac bards and chanters will be able to buff an entire raid with their single target buffs!    this was done so thre would not have to be 8 or more bards/enchanter in a raid, so as to make room for other classes that currently have a HARD time finding a raid spot.   </p><p>   IF these buffs fall off every time the chanter/bard dies THEN raids will just keep the 8 bards/chanters so the entire raid won't loose buffs..    see why this needs to be changed?</p></blockquote><p>Hmm, first off...the game isnt all raiding. Secondly, make sure your bards/chanters dont die and if they do, well, I guess that's a bad thing and should be a detriment instead of having no effect at all.</p><p>Why not just take all the chanters and bards, have them die at the start then stay dead for rest of encounter so whatever happens the buffs never go?</p><p>Half the fun of playing my Troub is scrabbling to get your buffs back up in the right order if you have fluffed it and died.</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There should be some penalty if you die surely. Everyone should have to rebuff after death. If you want your buffs to persist...dont die oO.</p><p>The idea that a dead person can somehow maintain a buff is absurd.</p><p>[EDIT] Oh is this PvP? Nevermind if so...</p></blockquote><p>new flash!    next expac bards and chanters will be able to buff an entire raid with their single target buffs!    this was done so thre would not have to be 8 or more bards/enchanter in a raid, so as to make room for other classes that currently have a HARD time finding a raid spot.   </p><p>   IF these buffs fall off every time the chanter/bard dies THEN raids will just keep the 8 bards/chanters so the entire raid won't loose buffs..    see why this needs to be changed?</p></blockquote><p>Hmm, first off...the game isnt all raiding. Secondly, make sure your bards/chanters dont die and if they do, well, I guess that's a bad thing and should be a detriment instead of having no effect at all.</p><p>Why not just take all the chanters and bards, have them die at the start then stay dead for rest of encounter so whatever happens the buffs never go?</p><p>Half the fun of playing my Troub is scrabbling to get your buffs back up in the right order if you have fluffed it and died.</p></blockquote><p>Could be wrong, but the way I understood it when a bard or chanter die his buffs will be down until he gets revived, but as soon as he is alive the buffs will be instantly back on the raid. Is my understanding incorrect ? :p</p>

[Wytie]

<p>As a dps class I can already tell that I will like this.</p><p>Sure I will still have to single target buffs but it will still add to my dps, because when I die incombat, with not having to recast my group buffs that means I can restart dps'n faster.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Krooner]

<p>As someone else had stated the plan was to cut down on the amount of bards and enchanters per raid to open up some more spots.</p><p>The way I understand it all group concentration buffs for bards will shift to raid wide.</p><p>We will still have our in group single target specialty buffs. i.e Hate and Battle Cry.</p><p>As I understand it having buffs persist through death only means that when you are rezzed or revive those buffs will still be there but inactive when you are dead.  The result of this in raid will just be to res a bard or enchanter first or near first.</p><p>As far as opening up more spots in raid.  I really dont think they less desired classes are going to get the spot if another T1 DPS is available.</p><p>I see most raids still taking along 2 dirges 1 Troub and at least 2 chanters.</p>

[Hirofortis]

<p>The only way the other classes are going to get in is if they have something to offer the raid.  Right now, there just is not much of that. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Conjys, monks, necros, brusiers all feel this sting.  Hopefully SOE can fix this disparity that makes them near useless on raids.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The pet would have to persist thru death in order for pet buffs to persist.</p><p>Not likely to happen.</p></blockquote><p>Change the mechanics of the pet buffs to be self only buffs, with an effect that works on the targets persistant pet.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>Monks tend to get raid spots already for their raidwide buffs. They are adding a "dispatch" type debuff to summoners to increase their value though the specifics of it are unknown.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p></blockquote><p>L2R...  i said FOUR groups not twenty three people.. durr</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There should be some penalty if you die surely. Everyone should have to rebuff after death. If you want your buffs to persist...dont die oO.</p><p>The idea that a dead person can somehow maintain a buff is absurd.</p><p>[EDIT] Oh is this PvP? Nevermind if so...</p></blockquote><p>new flash!    next expac bards and chanters will be able to buff an entire raid with their single target buffs!    this was done so thre would not have to be 8 or more bards/enchanter in a raid, so as to make room for other classes that currently have a HARD time finding a raid spot.   </p><p>   IF these buffs fall off every time the chanter/bard dies THEN raids will just keep the 8 bards/chanters so the entire raid won't loose buffs..    see why this needs to be changed?</p></blockquote><p>Hmm, first off...the game isnt all raiding. Secondly, make sure your bards/chanters dont die and if they do, well, I guess that's a bad thing and should be a detriment instead of having no effect at all.</p><p>Why not just take all the chanters and bards, have them die at the start then stay dead for rest of encounter so whatever happens the buffs never go?</p><p>Half the fun of playing my Troub is scrabbling to get your buffs back up in the right order if you have fluffed it and died.</p></blockquote><p>     uhmmm...    when you die you will still have rez sickness THAT is the penalty and you're the only troub in EQ2 that thinks buffing after death is fun..  do you also enjoy beating your head against walls?      this game isin't just for you</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>madhatr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you trying to tell us that bards/chanters no longer have concentration slots and will be individually buffing 23 other players each?</p></blockquote><p>The plan is they will be able to buff 1 person per group with their specialized single target spells like Upbeat Tempo, Battlecry etc.</p></blockquote><p>Think soe might have bit off more then they can chew posting that these changes might happen, how many people rolled a bard or a illusionist just to raid, after expac they wont have a slot in raids anymore, and will have to roll a, GASP, conjy for debuffs.</p><p>Should make healers group heals raid wide so you only need like 4.</p></blockquote><p>  indeed balance will be restored..        also i agree healers need some balancing</p><p>  ps.    pick your poisen,  either chanters and bards go back to having abismal dps so having a raid full of them would mean no mobs would die OR stay on this path that still lets the classes have respectfull dps but instead makes them more efficient and thus opens up raid spots for other classes, IF the raid force decides they want them.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p></blockquote><p>Yeah!</p><p>Unless this was orriginal release of eq2 and you were an enchanter.</p><p>In which case it was your job to keep a 4min durration buff on 24 people.  Man, that was rewarding!</p><p>But to the OP, I'm not sure any buff should persist thru death, death should be a penalty, and for good reason.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The pet would have to persist thru death in order for pet buffs to persist.</p><p>Not likely to happen.</p></blockquote><p>Change the mechanics of the pet buffs to be self only buffs, with an effect that works on the targets persistant pet.</p></blockquote><p>Like the items with pet buffs. Those appear in the selfcast / maintained buff window.</p><p>There is a persistance to some pet buffs more recently (not sure when it changed and am not even 100% positive it hasn't always been this way). When you have a temp-perm pet, like a charm pet or a possessed essence, with your own buffs on it (i.e. dps buff and the pet shrink and maybe even an illusion), if you zone (vs die) the buffs remain 'up' and get applied to the next pet you obtain in the new zone. Now if those would stay with death, too, and summoner/illusionist buffs on their pets did the same, it would be grand.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p></blockquote><p>Yeah!</p><p>Unless this was orriginal release of eq2 and you were an enchanter.</p><p>In which case it was your job to keep a 4min durration buff on 24 people.  Man, that was rewarding!</p><p>But to the OP, I'm not sure any buff should persist thru death, death should be a penalty, and for good reason.</p></blockquote><p>Death hasnt been a penalty since they removed group debt and shard retrieval. What little penalty was left only even applies to non-persisten instances that kick you out.</p><p>Let's see....</p><p>Exp debt = nothing</p><p>Armor repair = money sink</p><p>Rez sickness = wasting time</p><p>Rebuffing = wasting time</p><p>Running back = wasting time</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote</cite></p><blockquote><p>ps.    pick your poisen,  either chanters and bards go back to having abismal dps so having a raid full of them would mean no mobs would die OR stay on this path that still lets the classes have respectfull dps but instead makes them more efficient and thus opens up raid spots for other classes, IF the raid force decides they want them.</p></blockquote><p>OR....make enchanter and bard buffs raidwide eliminating the need for multiples and at the same time completely nerf their DPS (VIA crit ratio) so noone takes them for DPS reasons and the classes become boring buff-bots that noone really wants to play except when raids drag them around.</p><p>This way they can say, "Yes, we nerfed enchanter/bard DPS but we gave you raidwide buffs to compensate - isn't that super!"</p><p>When in actuality both are aimed at diminishing our roles.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I'm still not seeing the reason for this. There's already hardly any death penalty as it is. Why not have people be autorezzed by the nearest healer with an available rez while you are at it?</p><p>I thought raiders were all for making things challenging and on the cutting edge of whats doable..not calling for making things easier!</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm still not seeing the reason for this. There's already hardly any death penalty as it is. Why not have people be autorezzed by the nearest healer with an available rez while you are at it?</p><p>I thought raiders were all for making things challenging and on the cutting edge of whats doable..not calling for making things easier!</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Not exactly easier, there was no difficulty in it in the first place. It's just less annoying/time wasting if anything really. I see this change mostly in response to how irritating it is to rebuff for bard classes and others with like 20 or some such buffs.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote</cite></p><blockquote><p>ps.    pick your poisen,  either chanters and bards go back to having abismal dps so having a raid full of them would mean no mobs would die OR stay on this path that still lets the classes have respectfull dps but instead makes them more efficient and thus opens up raid spots for other classes, IF the raid force decides they want them.</p></blockquote><p>OR....make enchanter and bard buffs raidwide eliminating the need for multiples and at the same time completely nerf their DPS (VIA crit ratio) so noone takes them for DPS reasons and the classes become boring buff-bots that noone really wants to play except when raids drag them around.</p><p>This way they can say, "Yes, we nerfed enchanter/bard DPS but we gave you raidwide buffs to compensate - isn't that super!"</p><p>When in actuality both are aimed at diminishing our roles.</p></blockquote><p>i doubt dev's will nerf enchanters and bards that much, wait and see if they cut too deep you can ask for adjustments.  ofcourse my necro has been asking for adjustments since the 3rd week of RoK...   but i really hope soe works on their reaction time.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p></blockquote><p>Yeah!</p><p>Unless this was orriginal release of eq2 and you were an enchanter.</p><p>In which case it was your job to keep a 4min durration buff on 24 people.  Man, that was rewarding!</p><p>But to the OP, I'm not sure any buff should persist thru death, death should be a penalty, and for good reason.</p></blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm still not seeing the reason for this. There's already hardly any death penalty as it is. Why not have people be autorezzed by the nearest healer with an available rez while you are at it?</p><p>I thought raiders were all for making things challenging and on the cutting edge of whats doable..not calling for making things easier!</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p> another poster all ready posted that buffing does not take any skill and in fact it's not a penalty, only a small time sink but never the less a cumbersome one if you're having to buff an entire raid.  </p><p>   if you require recasting all single target buffs after death, all the raid wide changes will be in vain since no one will want to depend on one person dieing for the supper important chanter/bard buffs specialy when breaking new content.   single target buffs that don't drop is clearly how things must be i really don't understand how people can argue it.   only buffs that should fall off are those that are not permanent.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Buffing per se may not take skill but keeping people alive is. Buffs dropping should be the consequence of key players dying in a raid.</p><p>Having them instantly come back on when rezzed is just meh. Yeah I play a Troub (currently my main) but buffing is as much a part of the class as a healer healing. Hell its not as if I have much else to do on a raid except hit PotM and JC when they're up.</p><p>Besides, all they will do is make a DoT that if its not cured will drop all single target buffs anyway. Thats how SOE work. Give with one hand, take away with the other.</p><p>Guess I'll have to agree to disagree on this one.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Buffing per se may not take skill but keeping people alive is. Buffs dropping should be the consequence of key players dying in a raid.</p><p>Having them instantly come back on when rezzed is just meh. Yeah I play a Troub (currently my main) but buffing is as much a part of the class as a healer healing. Hell its not as if I have much else to do on a raid except hit PotM and JC when they're up.</p><p>Besides, all they will do is make a DoT that if its not cured will drop all single target buffs anyway. Thats how SOE work. Give with one hand, take away with the other.</p><p>Guess I'll have to agree to disagree on this one.</p></blockquote><p>sure we can agree to dissagree if you wish but lets make sure we both know what we are disagreeing on...</p><p>  my point is that IF the single target buffs don't persist thru death, raids will continue to bring 8 bards and chanters thus making the change in fact useless.    </p><p> your point is that buffing after death is some how part of the grouping experiance and would rob players from a source of fun?   well..   even if you think buffing is such a joyous event!  it still needs to be scrafieced to restablish balance to raiding.   </p>

[demonwr]

<p>someone still pushing to find room for a necro in a raid  i think</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>demonwrym wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>someone still pushing to find room for a necro in a raid  i think</p></blockquote><p>you still play demon?</p>

[Dept]

<p>Ok Real easy fix for you. Go to your macro window create a new one type the /useability comand for that buff that's so hard to do then make a line for each of people in raid that need it problem solved your job is now easy.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Noctune@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok Real easy fix for you. Go to your macro window create a new one type the /useability comand for that buff that's so hard to do then make a line for each of people in raid that need it problem solved your job is now easy.</p></blockquote><p>no one said it wasen't easy..   matter of fact it has been said it requires no skill and it's only a small time sink. </p><p>   the point is not that some one can't or does not know how to buff people (btw you make your self look dumb assuming that people here in teh test feed back don't know how to use macros), the point is that buffing 8 people in a raid after a death will become very cumbersome to the point where either people will stop wanting to play utilltiy classes or raid leaders will keep bringing 8 bards/chanters.</p><p>  further more what exactly are you people argueing here for?   what is the disfuction with your brain that makes you shun common sense.     if buffs will persist thru death, then ALL buffs should persist thru death exept temporary ones.. serously  your fregging mount persist thru death, why woulden't your PERMANENT(untill canceld) professional spells?</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p></blockquote><p>L2R...  i said FOUR groups not twenty three people.. durr</p></blockquote><p>Then say, one or two people in each group not four groups. Four groups in EQ2 is 23 people plus urself. So maybe say what you mean..</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Umm I doubt you will be able to buff 24 individual people.. What the are talking about is group buffs will become raid wide; thats how I take it any ways..</blockquote><p>you will be buffing 4 different groups as a chanter or bard.    to die then have to that is just dumb. </p></blockquote><p>Your NOT gonna be buffing 23 people with a single target buff get real..</p></blockquote><p>L2R...  i said FOUR groups not twenty three people.. durr</p></blockquote><p>Then say, one or two people in each group not four groups. Four groups in EQ2 is 23 people plus urself. So maybe say what you mean..</p></blockquote><p> look man.. just cos you're too dense to understand does not mean that i did not say exactly what i mean!</p><p>  the FACT is once some one places all the buffs that can be place on a group that group is indeed "buffed" by that person so when that person moves on to another group and another and yet another, said person would have indeed buffed 4 groups.  </p><p> anyway this is not what im here to argue.   i won't be rading a bard/chanter in any expansion but i feel that these changes have to be fair for all classes.      devs should not over nerf the classes to make room for other classes, that will not help the playing experiance at all.     can we please get it right this time guys?</p>