A new part of the Theer Prophecy revealed!

[Llogwey]

<p>Thanks to some lore addict players from several servers we managed to find out that the prison chamber of Anashti Sul in the temple of the Ancient One in the void.... has a big secret</p><p>On both sides of this room are statues of Maidens of Theer... if you use the Claymore reward and Soulfire reward in your active inventory... you can click on those statues by touching them with Aeteok or Enoxus... (these Maidens are called Right hand of Roehn , and Left hand of Roehn)</p><p>the result is... this movie!</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyRli9g8ZH4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyRli9g8ZH4</a></p><p>Good watching and feel free to comment the new symbols or the riddle behind it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>the big blue symbol in the middle is... the ankh of Ydal (which is also the symbol used for the Freethinker trinkets)the big marck on the top is the Mark of the Awakening...</p><p>Maybe the others will be more familiar for you than they are for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[betatester7]

<p>oh, interesting! the famous red symbol appears again! in that video.</p>

[Llogwey]

yup but the main interesting point is the blue symbol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> oh and the mark at the bottom is a Combine Empire mark, as can be seen in the Sanctus Seru screenshot from EQ1 : <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/mseru-seru.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/sce.../mseru-seru.jpg</a>

[RaphaNissi]

<p>So we know the top, the bottom, and the big middle symbol.  The left is the same as the Order of Rime.  The other 3 on the blue symbol seem so familiar, but I can't place them yet.  *goes out to search her memory files some more*</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Ahh, when you said movie, I thought you ment a cutscene in the game. I wasn't expecting those familiar symbols to show up again.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>One of the other blue symbols there was of the Awakened, the Kerafym loyalist faction in Kingdom of Sky.</p><p>BTW anyone else notice that with the blue and the red symbols overlaid....it's a clock? The top symbol was of the Awakened, the bottom was of the Combine, if I caught the hands facing correctly. Is this basically a mayan calender sort of thing? Reflecting different ages though?</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Another thought, if not a clock, perhaps there is signifance with the Ankh of Y'dal being overlaid on the symbol in the center....did the Freethinkers not manage to permanently scar the face of Mayong Mistmoore with that symbol?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One of the other blue symbols there was of the Awakened, the Kerafym loyalist faction in Kingdom of Sky.</p><p>BTW anyone else notice that with the blue and the red symbols overlaid....it's a clock? The top symbol was of the Awakened, the bottom was of the Combine, if I caught the hands facing correctly. Is this basically a mayan calender sort of thing? Reflecting different ages though?</p></blockquote><p>.... ****! You might be onto something there. We might be looking at the Ancient Shissar Calendar. Think about it. We see the Rallosian Army, Seru faction of the Combine Empire, Cult of the Awakened, Order of Rime, and a few other symbols who's meanings haven't been revealed to us yet.</p><p>But why do the arrows on the blue symbol point to the Combine Empire and Cult of the Awakened?</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Well, the possibility is either that this is the Clock as it began perhaps? Around the time of the Combine Empire?</p><p>To really understand we would need to know every single symbol's meaning, even the ones within the circle.</p>

[RaphaNissi]

<p>Which Symbol is the Rallosian Army?  Just for clarification... (meaning are you talking about just the blue symbol or the one found on the red?)</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Maybe those eight symbols have other meanings, especially if it is a Calender.</p><p>Clockwise from the top:</p><p>(12 o'clock)Age of Scale (Correlates as this is the symbol for the Awakened, but may also be meant to be a dragon scale)</p><p>Elder Age</p><p>Age of Monuments</p><p>Age of Blood</p><p>(6 o'clock) Lost Age (This correlates also, the Lost Age was also the time of the Combine Empire/founding of Erudin)</p><p>Age of Enlightenment</p><p>Age of Turmoil</p><p>Age of War</p><p>That leaves the Age of Cataclysms and Destiny to be placed on the Calender, perhaps within the circle?</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p>Ok, so in this blue symbol, we've got seven new symbols:</p><p>-the bottom symbol is the Combine Empire (or was it just for Seru?)</p><p>-the left symbol looks like it might be the Order of Rime (although it isn't identical).  It could also be a symbol for the Ratonga (which I'm personally leaning towards).</p><p>-the center symbol is the Freethinker symbol (the Ankh of Y'Dal) that's also branded into Mayong's face</p><p>-the top symbol is the Mark of the Awakened</p><p>-the right symbol is the Rune of Oblivion (Rune of Vul?)</p><p>Any ideas on the other<span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> four</span> <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">three</span> two symbols?</p><p>EDIT: to add the Mark of the Awakened</p><p>EDIT again: to add the Rune of Oblivion, as well as a new theory for the left symbol. </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>RaphaNissi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Which Symbol is the Rallosian Army?  Just for clarification... (meaning are you talking about just the blue symbol or the one found on the red?)</p></blockquote><p>8 O'clock on the red symbol. You could find it all over the Feerrott and Oggok back in EQlive.</p><p>Then again, you saw the 4 O'clock symbol all over both Erudin and Paineel, and we don't know what they mean just yet.</p><p>The 10 O'Clock position symbol was seen on a few orc banners now and then. It's been speculated it's related to Bertoxulous, though nothing has been proven yet.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>The center symbol is the Mark of the Freethinkers.</p><p>Correct on the Symbol of the Awakened and Combine thing.. noticed those right off the bat. Not sure on the others.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>The Mark of the Freethinkers, aka the Ankh of Ydal, an actual item that is considered an ancient rune that was used to scar Mayong Mistmoore's face by the League of Freethinkers.</p><p>The Y'dal are considered to be the first dark elf race supposedly, created within the Plane of Hate by the pouring of a drop of Innoruuk's blood from the Ewer of Sul'dae. The Y'dal shared some traits of their leader.</p><p>Is Mayong a Y'dal? The first Y'dal?</p><p>I still think this is the Shissar Calender, representing events with it's symbols more than beings or specific entities. The fact that the top and bottom symbol of the clock both correspond perfectly to the Age of Scale, and the Lost Age still intrigues me. This calender seems to  be centered around the image in the center.</p><p>When exactly did the Freethinkers inflict this wound upon Mayong? Is the symbol benieth it not necessarily of the Teir'dal, but the Y'dal, or Mayong?</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Another thing to point out...there is not a single bit of overlap between the two that I noticed save for one tiny thing. The top of the Ankh/Rune of Ydal overlays with a piece matching it on the red portion, that little arrow portion above the face in the center.</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p>Edited my previous post to include the Mark of the Awakened and more info about the Ankh of Y'Dal.  I'm going to try to keep that post current with all we've figured out about this new blue symbol.</p>

[betatester7]

<p>So do you think we have a any clues about the mystery of this rune?</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=ankh.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/ankh.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>Ankh of Ydal Item Game</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p>New theory on the symbol to on the left.</p><p>Trying to think of places where obscure symbols have popped up in the past, I recalled something I had read in the official Prima guide for EQ2 back in the day.  I did a double-check, and sure enough, under the page for the Ratonga:</p><p>"Ratonga often emblazon a symbol on their chest.  This symbol is always the same; it may be a link to their secretive past.  The symbol appears to be a series of circles, one within another.  Closer examination shows unaligned gaps in each circle."</p><p>Sounds a lot like the leftmost symbol, doesn't it?  So I'm going to say that symbol is actually one for a Ratonga and/or Roekillik empire in the Underfoot.</p>

[betatester7]

<p>I take some screenshots from the video that Llogwey post it on youtube, so we can see them here, I don't take any credit, so this belongs Lonandor The Warden & Llogwey The RangerThank you for  that adventure, many people doesn't have access to that kind of places.</p><p>1</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/1.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>2</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/2.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>3</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/3.jpg" border="0" /></a></p>

[betatester7]

<p>Part 2</p><p>4</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/4.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>5</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/5.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>6</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/6.jpg" border="0" /></a></p>

[betatester7]

<p>Part III</p><p>7</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/7.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>8</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/8.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>9</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/9.jpg" border="0" /></a></p>

[betatester7]

<p>Part IV</p><p>10</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=10-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/10-1.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>11</p><p><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=11.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/11.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>Thank you Llogwey!</p>

[Llogwey]

I was just counting the symbols.... Do you remember mayong and the 16 monoliths of Theer? we never were sure what the word "monoliths" was used for but if you look at the two symbols together : you have a total of 8 symbols outside the circle, all perfectly agenced as in an eight hours clock you have a total of 5 peripheral symbols inside the circle, with still some three places missing (or not) to match the bottom, left and right outside symbols, but the ankh of ydal would not allow for another symbol to be placed at the bottom you have two central symbol, and maybe , maybe not, the arrow pointhead above the veeshan/inno symbol is a symbol in itself? that makes 15 (or 16 with arrowheads) symbols, with what we used to call the chelsith stone in the middle... Now I am more than certain that these peripheral symbols at least are the "marks of the monoliths", or they are the monoliths indeed... and to decipher the code, or puzzle (actually what Mayong is trying to do) means that we have to find out where or what those diagram symbols link to... Vhalen used to tell me when I asked for hints about the monoliths of theer "think about "ring", for the monoliths... thinks that are sometimes so close to you, so next to you that you forget about them.." (something like that) I will now travel through Norrath, in EQ2 first, in E1 (when I get back my access to it...) to look for those symbols more closely..

[BleemTeam]

<p>So in the grand scheme of things... What happened first in this game to turn us onto this current action?</p><p>Us talking to a freeport emissary in regards to The Qeynos Claymore?</p><p>Then we wait and find out that Mayong wants the Soulfire?</p><p>Then we learn Mayong wants the Chelsith Stone to predict the End of Days?</p><p>Anashti Sul invading Norrath from the void and learning along the way that Claymore/Soulfire were weapons of Theer.</p><p>Now we're waiting on Theer to .............. ? I am kind of just....I need the cliff's notes.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Rune of Oblivion is right there.</p><p>It's the intersecting triangles. There on the East side of the circle. Same one Varsoon and Everling studied and tried to use incorrectly and the rune is everywhere in their living spaces (Ruins of Varsoon and Nektropos Castle). Plus in the Obelisks.</p>

[Llogwey]

first symbol (or last?) clockwise : -mark of Kerafyrm (his awakening?) -mark of sundering (remember tunarian throneroom and the cutscene with this mark above luclin being shattered... so in the chronology of events : shattering of Luclin?) -mark of Oblivion (as you just mentionned) linked in varsoon/everling , coming of the Voidmen in Norrath (again?) or maybe the great shattering? -the lower right corner is a rune linked to quellitullian or Odus (as mentionned in another thread) -bottom is Mark of Combine -lower left is mark of Zek -left is mark of Rime? -top left is mark of Cazic Thule? inside the circle we have divinity marks : Brell at the top, then I don't know, then Prexus? , then nothing at bottom, then Tunare, then... this paw... maybe something related to Underfoot?

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Rune of Oblivion is right there.<p>It's the intersecting triangles. There on the East side of the circle. Same one Varsoon and Everling studied and tried to use incorrectly and the rune is everywhere in their living spaces (Ruins of Varsoon and Nektropos Castle). Plus in the Obelisks.</p> </blockquote><p><cite>betatester7 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/?action=view&current=4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/pasaguero/temp/4.jpg" border="0" /></a></blockquote><p>Yep.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>The following may all be totally off... but...</p><p>If this is a calendar used to determing the end of the world, then would it not make sense that the symbols represent events, some of which have happened, some of which have not?</p><p>Being a circular shape, it makes sence to me that it is read as a clock, but the exact starting place is unknown. My assumption is that is should be read around the outside in terms of a sequence of events, and then we should shift in to look at the symbols in the middle.</p><p>The top symbol could refer to the birth of Kerafyrm (or formation of the Cult of the Awakened), the next refering to the Sundering, then the void invasion, and it is possible that this is where we are "up to" if this is the correct way to read it.</p><p>The next symbol seems to be that of either Odus or the Quellitullians, and it is rumoured that Odus may be featured in the next expansion, or possibly even before then.</p><p>Another possibility is that this could simply be Theer's "plan", as each symbol could well relate to a deity, with Veeshan in the center.</p>

[FreaklyCreak]

<p>I think the key to the meaning lies within the two different images only when they are overlapping.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Which was what I had done. Took few hours of study and design.</p><p>First circle: (A copy I saved a while ago)</p><p><img src="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/114/calendar1.jpg" width="720" height="720" /></p><p>Second circle: (Design I came up with after studying the video)</p><p><img src="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4561/calendar2b.jpg" width="720" height="720" /></p><p>Finally, both overlapped:</p><p><img src="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/73/calendar3.jpg" width="720" height="720" /></p><p>Admittingly the arrows are in an odd place, I used the "North" pointer to align both images.</p><p>So, anyway ... there's your calendar or clock as seen in the video.</p>

[Llogwey]

mmhh but the arrows in the blue symbols tend to be part of the Ydal symbol, are there meant to be arrows or simply the Ydal symbol which looks like arrows (on north/south parts) You designed two arrows but actually it is just a double line between the points, centered on the middle, it is a whole, not separate arrows as for a calendar of events. I think that's it... the Awakaned symbol is linked to Kerafyrm, maybe not his birth but rather his "ascent" after been awoken... the sundering, the oblivion could be void and shattering related events...

[Gormak]

<p>so anyone wanna rehash using Cons 3rd image?</p>

[Llogwey]

mmhh after closer look it indeed seems the two straight lines are a bit broken, it may have it's meaning indeed... So I retract on what I said about arrows except that th bottom point is aligned with veeshan symbol and pointing to the Combine symbol, on the center it is perfectly symetrical

[Lonandor68]

<p style="text-align: left;">Hello There.</p><p>Good Job Coniaric, I started the same thing yesterday but you surpassed me !</p><p>If it can help you :</p><p><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/RedBlue.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/RedCirclep.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/RedCenter.jpg" width="200" height="311" /></p><p><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red1.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red3.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red5.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red6.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red4.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red2.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/BlueCirclep.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/BlueCenter.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Blue1.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Blue2.jpg" width="200" height="189" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Blue4.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Blue5.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Blue6.jpg" /><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Blue3.jpg" /></p><p><a href="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red1.jpg"></a></p>

[Noaani]

<p>Are there any other posibilities that the symbol we are refering to as the Sundering could represent? possibly whatever caused the sundering?</p>

[Niltsiar]

<p>Btw. what Coniaric named "first circle" I just found in a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=50278" target="_blank">posting from oct 2006 in the eq1 forum</a></p>

[lemey]

im not entirely convinced the current combination is the final item i think there could be a final layer

[RaphaNissi]

<p>Some great ideas being posted here!!</p><p>One thing I noticed is about the "broken infinity" type symbol on the blue image.  At first I thought the small marks look like slash marks as in Coniaric's pictures, but when I look at the individual shots on the second page (number 4) it looks like three triangles together.  The symbol looks so familiar, but I can't place it. </p>

[thecynic315]

<p><cite>Lemin@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>im not entirely convinced the current combination is the final item i think there could be a final layer</blockquote><p>Has anyone tried going in with Claymore, Soulfire & The Statue of Theer?</p><p>Also someone mentioned Mayong's Monoliths the first thing that poped into my mind is that the Novel 2001 was based on the short story The Sentinal. We know how the Monoliths worked in the stories and the next expansion seems to be Named The _____ Sentinal.</p>

[regalus]

<p>Perhaps this is neither a clock or a calander but a timer counting down, in the screenshot it doesnt look as if the red and blue arrow at the top are fully aligned. (above veeshan head) </p>

[Cucuy]

<p>Going off of the clock theory, maybe the two circles aren't necessarily stationary, but rotate counter to each other and around the inner symbols, with the Ankh and the arrow on the Veeshan half acting like hour, minute and second hands but on a grander scale of ages.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Forgive me if this has already been asked and answered in some prior thread.  The Chelsith Stone is not an area that I have any expertise in, and rather than going back and searching through scores of posts on it, I will pose the question here.</p><p>Did anyone finally resolve the red circled areas in this image?  And what is the significance of the one 'breaking in' to the inner circle?</p><p>On the screenshots from the video, I see nothing on either circle that corresponds to this.</p><p><img src="http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/agh1950/Chelsith1.jpg?t=1245945057" /></p>

[Aneova]

<p>I know it probably isn't as relevent as the vid and pictures shown but i thought i'd pop in the picture of the chelsith stone to see if mayhap something else clicks together.</p><p>Edit: OOO beaten to the punch</p><p><img src="http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee308/Aneova/ChelsithStone.jpg" width="657" height="847" /></p>

[Mirander_1]

<p><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, so in this blue symbol, we've got seven new symbols:</p><p>-the bottom symbol is the Combine Empire (or was it just for Seru?)</p><p>-the left symbol looks like it might be the Order of Rime (although it isn't identical).  It could also be a symbol for the Ratonga (which I'm personally leaning towards).</p><p>-the center symbol is the Freethinker symbol (the Ankh of Y'Dal) that's also branded into Mayong's face</p><p>-the top symbol is the Mark of the Awakened</p><p>-the right symbol is the Rune of Oblivion (Rune of Vul?)</p><p>Any ideas on the other<span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> four</span> <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">three</span> two symbols?</p><p>EDIT: to add the Mark of the Awakened</p><p>EDIT again: to add the Rune of Oblivion, as well as a new theory for the left symbol. </p></blockquote><p>Here's what I've got so far.  So now we've got some idea on all the new symbols, except for the two in the middle.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I'm going to put that down to an artists rendition.</p><p>It could be significant, but I doubt it.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Few things:</p><p>1) I didn't create the first image. Someone else did. I only added the "compass points" to it which were missing from the original work. The "dragon" probably is little too long. That may throw off the alignment a little in middle. The "broken infinity" may has either triangles or slashes, I cannot tell exactly how it's shaped, only how it's formed. The "Ankh" are what I saw them as two overlapping arrows.</p><p>It will be nice if the film maker linger a little longer at each symbol/rune. They glow and that make smaller details lose their edges.</p><p>But overall what I worked out is accurate, more or less.</p><p>2) Few runes are named, the rest aren't. A couple of runes have a known event or prophecy attached to it.</p><ul><li style="padding-left: 30px;">Rune of (?) = The "Crossed Bones" = The Greenmist = End of the Shissar Empire (or End of the 2nd Rallosian Empire?)</li><li style="padding-left: 30px;">Rune of Sunder = "The Spiral" = The Shattering = the end of the moon Luclin</li><li style="padding-left: 30px;">Rune of Oblivion ="The Intersecting Triangles" = formerly Rune of Ethernere, likely Rune of Vul = Invasion of the Void(?)</li></ul><p>Mark of Awakening, Ankh of Y'Dal, and so on ... may not be their accurate or true names or their purpose truly known. Each symbol has a signifiance to it and we just don't know everything about them yet.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><img src="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4561/calendar2b.jpg" width="720" height="720" /></p><p>Using just this portion, and only the outside, am I right in assuming that the symbols are associated with (starting from the top and working clockwise) Kerafyrm, The Void, The Combine Empire, Ratonga/Roekillik?</p><p>If so, three of these four symbols are representative of events that are fairly well known, and follow the order above. The birth of Kerafyrm, the first void invasion (Ethernauts et al), The Combine Empires rise and fall. This just leaves the last symbol (Ratonga/Roekillik) to be answered from this piece, and could well explain why little information about them has been released so far.</p><p>The other thing I am wondering is whether or not these can be/should be rotated, even if just the outside symbols (think the puzzle in the new JW instance).</p>

[Illine]

<p>and what are the 2 symbols inside??</p>

[Noaani]

<p>No idea, which is why I am not worrying about the inside at all.</p><p>I have a feeling that the two very center symbols of each represent Veeshan and something to do with Mayong. I recall something about the Ankh being related to where Mayong is from origonally, but can't seem to find any referance to it. To that end, I'm wondering if where ever Mayong was origonally from is where Veeshan is now, as these symbols are the only ones that overlap.</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>If you guys read that EQ1 thread that he linked a few posts up... Those guys dig REAL hard into this symbol back in  '06.</p><p>That symbol is ALL over the place. They break down the symbols.</p><p>Brell, Tunare, Rallos, etc etc.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I would, but I can't be bothered signing up to the EQlive forums.</p>

[Clowd]

<p>I wonder... If we go with each of the Symbols being/representing the "16 Monoliths of Theer", a simple cound shows that there's only 15 symbols.  However, what if Aetock and Exonus both represent or are one monolith?  That'd make all 16.   Anyone else think this might be a possiblity?</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>How many of the symbols are "legit confirmed" by the eq2 team?</p><p>This symbol has been around forever, and we now know that it is a calander to predict the End of Days. All places and races study this symbol... Soothsayers, Sages, Scribes, etc.</p><p>But What are the 2 symbols on the inside that we don't know?</p><p>Veeshan - Middle</p><p>Drawing a Triangle around it, you have (T)Brell, (L)Tunare, (R)Prexus.</p><p>edit to add - I would like to see a Photoshop-savvy Labelling (Hard Fact) the "completed" calender with names next to the symbols.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Brailyn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>edit to add - I would like to see a Photoshop-savvy Labelling (Hard Fact) the "completed" calender with names next to the symbols.</blockquote><p>I wouldn't really bother with that.</p><p>This is a calendar, not a list of deities. While the symbols may represent deities, what exactly is it about them that cause them to be represented on a calendar that is counting down to the end of Norrath?</p><p>Without that link, its not worth labeling them.</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>Well I don't think it's counting down per se. Especially with Kraytoc saying that history is attempting to repeat itself again. I think the Shissar had forseen certain events that would "ultimately" end Norrath "unless ___ happens". I don't think it's predetermined. Otherwise we're playing in a Paradox already and might as well unplug.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Outer runes labeled (as far as I know) and I'm leaving out the center portion for now:</p><p><img src="http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7475/calendar4c.jpg" width="720" height="720" /></p><p>I won't go to EQLive for explanations. That period of history don't have what we have now - the runes as part of the EQ2 storyline. Original 4 runes are said to be prophecies of Ages End and newly discovered 4 may be too.</p><p>Keep in mind, those are from the Planar Realms, not originally Norrath - the Shissar first brought the runes with them from their travels into the Planes and studied them. The Pantheon will know what the runes are along with certain people like Theer and Mayong Mistmoore. The civilizations between then and now "borrowed" one or two and used as a symbol for themselves - while not knowing what they truly mean.</p><p>So we're sitting here, thinking ... hey, this must represent a god or whatever ... that may not be the actual purpose of the runes. And then whatever that may had been discussed in original EQ may not apply here.</p><p>Secondly, the Shissar knew what will come and they didn't avoided it - i.e. their race was wiped out by Greenmist as foretold. Then there is the timeline split. So, we are playing in a paradox of a kind.</p><p>Forgot to add: Najena used a rune to break down the veil that hid the Obelisks around Norrath. I don't know which one it was, though.</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>Isn't magic-north actually East? If that was true, the Calander would start at the Void, and end at the Void.</p><p>Which would give some indication that our next expansion is hindering on The Order of the Rime stopping history from repeating itself?</p>

[KERSTYNN]

<p>*Caveat: Going <em>WAY</em> out on a limb here and tossing in this idea for good or ill</p><p>Could this possibly relate someway or somehow to Vaniki's Wheel? Is there any info on it that could apply or overlay</p><p>here?</p><p>Anyhow, probably way off mark but just a thought....</p>

[InfernalShadow]

<p>It should be noted that some of those symbols are alchemical symbols, at least from an Earth perspective. Maybe it doesn't translate to norrath at all, and they were just used because the devs liked them. But, concentric circles, triangles, spirals, even the appearance of wings like the bottom middle symbol, all relate to pagan/occult symbology and, to a degree, alchemy.</p><p>Is it remotely possible that this is some kind of summoning circle for Theer, or some other being?</p>

[KERSTYNN]

<p>*Caveat: Going <em>WAY</em> out on a limb here and tossing in this idea for good or ill</p><p>Could this possibly relate someway or somehow to Tarton's Wheel? Is there any info on it that could apply or overlay</p><p>here?</p><p>Anyhow, probably way off mark but just a thought....</p><p>Edit to add the following:</p><p>Found this interesting tid-bit in the eq1 thread on the symbol posted by <span ><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/user/profile.m?user_id=26887"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffcc33;">Trellix_Shadowryder</span></span></strong></a></span></p><hr /><p><span>I can’t believe that this subject has made 4 pages worth of speculation. Here’s the old school info on the circle, or better known as the Teir'Dal symbol of Caerthiel. If you all would like a good lore read of people that were hard core into the lore prior to PoP check this out. Most of what they gathered was thru self observations around the world as well as GM events, in game items and books as well as quests. This collection is what got me into the lore of the game. Too bad LoDN's lore killed that for me.</span></p><p><span><p>Prophecy of Trakanon</p><div>Origins</div><p>It seems all things in Norrath ultimately seem to point back to this ancient Prophecy of Trakanon had spoken to Edril the Lancer. I do not believe that which has been fortold is the truth to the prophecy, only one elf's perception from events. The gods have been known to make allies and pacts amidst themselves. I believe Trakanon saw the end of the world long ago. His prophecy I believe was carried by the Teir'Dal of the ancient empire of Caerthiel.</p><p> <a href="http://www.1stfistoflight.com/html/1fol/everquest/eqcodex/images/caerthiliansigil.jpg" target="_self"></a>An ancient symbol from the Teir'Dal empire of Caerthiel that foretells the coming of the second war of the gods. This was identified as such by the "Da Swamp News" (Grobb Newspaper) from when Lanys T'Vyl was captured at the battle of Rathe Mountains by King Naythox Thex and his armies; accompanied by the aid of Mayong Mistmoore.r </p><p>The meaning of the ancient Teir'Dal symbol of Caerthiel is as follows. The symbol directly in the center is Veeshan. The head of a serpent with the wings of a dragon. The symbol directly left is of Tunare, nine dots that emulate the standing stones seen throughout Norrath. The symbol in the center above that of Veeshan is the symbol of Brell, denoted by the candelabra which is often depicted worn by Brell. The symbol directly to the right of Veeshan is that of Prexus, three lines to denote the waves of the Oceanlord. Surrounding the four symbols is a great circle which depicts the veil erected by the three in their pact to keep the Wurmqueen in check.</p><p>The four on the outside from left to right are as follows: Lower left hand corner is Rallos Zek, upper left is Innoruuk, upper right is Cazic Thule, and the lower right is Bertoxxulous...the four horsemen to bring about the end.</p><div>The Four Horsemen</div><p>There will be four Horsemen to bring about the final days of armageddon, the second war of the gods. First shall ride hate to bring the night. Then shall fear ride to cast its cloak of horror upon the lands. Plague and decay will ride thrice to spread its seed across the lands. The three shall give way to the fourth, and War will embrace the world in an icy wave of doom. The four horsemen shall ride and take their place in what will bring about the final battle for Norrath.</p><p>Innoruuk who showed his hand at the Battle of Bloody Kithicor*. Cazic Thule when he corrupted the Lesser Faydark and the last unicorn, Equestrielle at the attempted summoning of Tunare's avatar*. The three fold plague of Bertoxxulous upon the Karana Plains*. Rallos Zek who sits locked within his Plane of Power, awaiting freedom that he might wreak vengeance for his imprisonment at the last war of the gods. It is said even now in the lower planes where dwells the four can be seen evidence of emissaries and fiends from the realms of all four dark gods gathering their minions for the final hour. Such is at least spoken of within the Plane of Hate where reportedly is now also found a statue of Lanys T’Vyl.(*GM Events)</p></span></p><hr /><p>If this is a calender of events and if it foretells the above mentioned war between Gods, would it not be Theer's job to stop it in order to keep the "balance" that the Nameless wants preserved?</p><p>Also with the possiblility that this is called the Symbol of Caerthiel and with the mythical port of Weille being part of Caerthiel and Weille being where Aataltaal supposedly came with Tartons Wheel to research(?) it, could that be of some significance? Anyhow those are just some rather far stretching thoughts take them or leave them....</p><p>~K~</p><p></p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>I think that guy was debunked, was a decent idea, but later in that thread they disprove that story as non-cannon.</p><p>But they do delve really deep into the Deity Symbols. Although Coniaric's interpretation would be the most/closest to accruate that is published to date.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p><cite>KERSTYNN wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>*Caveat: Going <em>WAY</em> out on a limb here and tossing in this idea for good or ill</p><p>Could this possibly relate someway or somehow to Tarton's Wheel? Is there any info on it that could apply or overlay</p><p>here?</p><p>Anyhow, probably way off mark but just a thought....</p><p>Edit to add the following:</p><p>Found this interesting tid-bit in the eq1 thread on the symbol posted by <span><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/user/profile.m?user_id=26887"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffcc33;">Trellix_Shadowryder</span></span></strong></a></span></p><hr /><p><span>I can’t believe that this subject has made 4 pages worth of speculation. Here’s the old school info on the circle, or better known as the Teir'Dal symbol of Caerthiel. If you all would like a good lore read of people that were hard core into the lore prior to PoP check this out. Most of what they gathered was thru self observations around the world as well as GM events, in game items and books as well as quests. This collection is what got me into the lore of the game. Too bad LoDN's lore killed that for me.</span></p><p>Prophecy of Trakanon</p><div>Origins</div><p>It seems all things in Norrath ultimately seem to point back to this ancient Prophecy of Trakanon had spoken to Edril the Lancer. I do not believe that which has been fortold is the truth to the prophecy, only one elf's perception from events. The gods have been known to make allies and pacts amidst themselves. I believe Trakanon saw the end of the world long ago. His prophecy I believe was carried by the Teir'Dal of the ancient empire of Caerthiel.</p><p> <a href="http://www.1stfistoflight.com/html/1fol/everquest/eqcodex/images/caerthiliansigil.jpg" target="_self"></a>An ancient symbol from the Teir'Dal empire of Caerthiel that foretells the coming of the second war of the gods. This was identified as such by the "Da Swamp News" (Grobb Newspaper) from when Lanys T'Vyl was captured at the battle of Rathe Mountains by King Naythox Thex and his armies; accompanied by the aid of Mayong Mistmoore.r </p><p>The meaning of the ancient Teir'Dal symbol of Caerthiel is as follows. The symbol directly in the center is Veeshan. The head of a serpent with the wings of a dragon. The symbol directly left is of Tunare, nine dots that emulate the standing stones seen throughout Norrath. The symbol in the center above that of Veeshan is the symbol of Brell, denoted by the candelabra which is often depicted worn by Brell. The symbol directly to the right of Veeshan is that of Prexus, three lines to denote the waves of the Oceanlord. Surrounding the four symbols is a great circle which depicts the veil erected by the three in their pact to keep the Wurmqueen in check.</p><p>The four on the outside from left to right are as follows: Lower left hand corner is Rallos Zek, upper left is Innoruuk, upper right is Cazic Thule, and the lower right is Bertoxxulous...the four horsemen to bring about the end.</p><div>The Four Horsemen</div><p>There will be four Horsemen to bring about the final days of armageddon, the second war of the gods. First shall ride hate to bring the night. Then shall fear ride to cast its cloak of horror upon the lands. Plague and decay will ride thrice to spread its seed across the lands. The three shall give way to the fourth, and War will embrace the world in an icy wave of doom. The four horsemen shall ride and take their place in what will bring about the final battle for Norrath.</p><p>Innoruuk who showed his hand at the Battle of Bloody Kithicor*. Cazic Thule when he corrupted the Lesser Faydark and the last unicorn, Equestrielle at the attempted summoning of Tunare's avatar*. The three fold plague of Bertoxxulous upon the Karana Plains*. Rallos Zek who sits locked within his Plane of Power, awaiting freedom that he might wreak vengeance for his imprisonment at the last war of the gods. It is said even now in the lower planes where dwells the four can be seen evidence of emissaries and fiends from the realms of all four dark gods gathering their minions for the final hour. Such is at least spoken of within the Plane of Hate where reportedly is now also found a statue of Lanys T’Vyl.(*GM Events)</p><hr /><p>If this is a calender of events and if it foretells the above mentioned war between Gods, would it not be Theer's job to stop it in order to keep the "balance" that the Nameless wants preserved?</p><p>Also with the possiblility that this is called the Symbol of Caerthiel and with the mythical port of Weille being part of Caerthiel and Weille being where Aataltaal supposedly came with Tartons Wheel to research(?) it, could that be of some significance? Anyhow those are just some rather far stretching thoughts take them or leave them....</p><p>~K~</p></blockquote><p>Fan Fiction.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Yep. That whole story is fan fiction written by a disgruntled player who thought that Sony OWED it to him that *HE* become the main character of the game.</p>

[KERSTYNN]

<p><span style="font-size: small; color: #888888; font-family: Times New Roman;">Still interesting how <em>some</em> of the pieces now seem to fit. PArt of the debunking going on stated that the main symbol that  seems to have been proven as Veeshan, is being vehemnetly argued to be a symbol of Innoruuk..so perhaps there is a kernel or two of info in there that may have been found useful by the dev team and placed in game? Who knows? Obviouslyu not us...yet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #888888; font-family: Times New Roman;">~K~</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #888888; font-family: Times New Roman;">And no thoughts on the first thoughts in my post, lol?</span></p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>I mean, yea, the symbol posted of the Dark Elf symbol is pretty much spot on... I still think the central figure is Veeshan... with a slight triangle (arrow) pointing/outlining her with Brell(candles), Tunare(9dots) and Prexus(waves)... all whom had a pact against her iirc.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yep. That whole story is fan fiction written by a disgruntled player who thought that Sony OWED it to him that *HE* become the main character of the game.</p></blockquote><p><cite>KERSTYNN wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman; color: #888888;">Still interesting how <em>some</em> of the pieces now seem to fit. PArt of the debunking going on stated that the main symbol that  seems to have been proven as Veeshan, is being vehemnetly argued to be a symbol of Innoruuk..so perhaps there is a kernel or two of info in there that may have been found useful by the dev team and placed in game? Who knows? Obviouslyu not us...yet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman; color: #888888;">~K~</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman; color: #888888;">And no thoughts on the first thoughts in my post, lol?</span></p></blockquote><p>Indeed while like Cusa i only take it as fan fiction he did know something or someone in beta that let him put enough canon to keep it sounding correct, like the beta Elf lore and such which some is used some isnt and picking apart the fanficiton from the canon is getting tougher and tougher... not that im totally up in arms over it, the Codex of War helped later Devs with ideas to put into EQ1 and EQOA's stories and quests, not the exact stories of course but it helped craft the aura of what they wanted.</p><p>Whats funny is if you go to FFOL's "new" site since they started playing WAR and dig around he talks about it, and how White Wolf offered him a job because of it, and well then he got to make the history himself iirc.</p><p>irony...</p><p>-starts writting incredible fan-fiction in hopes of a job-</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Oh to be sure, that fanfiction used beta lore... Beta lore which is entirely debunked, almost none of which actually made it to the canon of the official game when it went live.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>Can someone with a better understanding of the chronological order of events on Norrath try and give an approximate timeline including any of the following events...</p><p>Void invasions.Anything significant that Erudites have been involved in, or that has happened on Odus.Any civilizations that have been multi racial.Any significant events that involve races created by Rallos Zek.Any significant events involving denzins of the Underfoot (does neriak count as a part of the underfoot?).Any use of the greenmist.Any event related to Kerafyrm.</p><p>The parts that don't make sense to me are the fact that if read as a clock would be read, the Erudite/Odus symbol comes before the Combine Empire Symbol. While I may be totally mistaken, I was under the impression tha Erudites first seperated themselves from humans during the Combine Empire (feel free to correct me if I am wrong on that).</p><p>Other than the Rune of Sunder, every other symbol could represent a number of different events. The void symbol could represent either of the void invasions we know of, the Greenmist symbol could be from any time the greenmist has been used (was it 2 or 3 times?), the underfoot symbol could be an event that happened in the underfoot, was caused by those from the underfoot or could be the emergance of Ratonga and the Rallosian symbol could be any of the Rallosian wars, or even some other event (cursing of the rallosian races?), the combine empire symbol could mean any period in time that races have cooperated, and the erudite/odus symbol could relate to any event caused by or involving the erudites (their beginnings or their screwups).</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>If the symbols around the ourter ring are interpreted correctly, and if we proceed in a clockwise direction, then the sequence of events is out of order.</p><p>Likewise, if we go in a counter-clockwise direction, they still seem to be out of order.</p><p>We think that this is meant to be a calendar of some sort that records the passage of events, rather than a listing of dieties.  One would assume then, that the listing of events should follow a chronological order.  Yet I do not see it following such an order in the way we are interpreting the symbols.  Something is a little <em>chueco.</em></p><p>Either our assumptions about this being a calender are incorrect, or the way we are interpreting the symbols is wrong.</p><p>As far as First Fists of Light:</p><p>Although initially fan fiction, (albeit widely deceminated fan fiction), more than a few elements of the Codex of War have found their way into the EQ RPG game, (he was a consultant for White Wolf iirc), and from there into Norathian canon.  It may be a case of the tail wagging the dog, but for whatever reason he had access that most ordinary players did not have at the time.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If the symbols around the ourter ring are interpreted correctly, and if we proceed in a clockwise direction, then the sequence of events is out of order.</p><p>Likewise, if we go in a counter-clockwise direction, they still seem to be out of order.</p><p>We think that this is meant to be a calendar of some sort that records the passage of events, rather than a listing of dieties.  One would assume then, that the listing of events should follow a chronological order.  Yet I do not see it following such an order in the way we are interpreting the symbols.  Something is a little <em>chueco.</em></p><p>Either our assumptions about this being a calender are incorrect, or the way we are interpreting the symbols is wrong.</p></blockquote><p>First of all, it was the Shissar Calendar, also known as the Chelsith Stone. It's more likely <em><strong>the Shissar</strong></em> had an incomplete "calendar". We get our information through the world's characters (and devs). So it's not our fault we got filtered-down information over the time.</p><p>Thus, with the current relevations:</p><p>One) we may assume the Shissar failed to obtain the full study necessary to devise the meaning out the runes or they never got to finish it after their empire's demise.</p><p>Two) Or The Shissar had the complete "calendar" but it was broken up over the centuries since the fall of the Shissar Empire. Thus, we got a partially completed Chelsith Stone out of the city ruins and Mayong is having his minions digging out the rest (at the time of RoK).</p><p>*****</p><p>Secondly, I got a strange impression of the entire thing as a .... compass. I don't know. I only got that impression. The cardinal points in the circle representing North, East, South, and West. Then the arrows - "Ankh of Ydal" - in center and I feel like it can "spin" and point toward next event in order. Not necessarily counter-clockwise or clockwise.</p><p>*****</p><p>Again, we cannot go off EQ1's interpretation of the runes or the non-canonical story.</p><p>Here in EQ2, we learned it was the Chelsith Stone / Shissar Calendar.</p><p>We also learned one of the runes was called the Rune of Sunder (the spiral rune) which prophesied the Shattering.</p><p>As well the Rune of Ethernere, as named by Everling, who later changed it to Rune of Oblivion when he realized it wasn't what he first thought it was. A path into the Ethernere ... instead it was a path into the Void. Varsoon also studied this rune. This is the rune in a shape of two intersecting triangles.</p><p>Also we learned that one of the runes prophesied the end of the Shissar Empire - the first rise of Greenmist - killing all the Shissar with a handful escaping to Luclin and liberating the Iksar in the process. I assume this is the rune in shape of "crossbones" - I don't think it was specifically stated which one it was.</p><p>Those three I believe we can be assured to be factual. The rest are open to speculations - including the ankh of Ydal, the Mark of Awakening, the symbols linked to certain races or civilizations such as the Rallosians or the Combine Empire.</p><p>I am aware I am repeating those points. But it's important here to keep above in mind in finding answers in the mystery.</p>

[Kranok]

<p>Just wanted to throw something out there and see if anyone could fill in any blanks.  What if the two parts are supposed to be separate?  What if the first part is representing the actions of the gods themselves, the second being the acts of mortals?</p><p>The middle of the first symbol really does look like it represents the start of life on Norrath.  Veeshan in the middle, Brell, Prexus and Tunare with their pact around the edge.</p><p>The outside.  Top-left we have Cazic releasing the greenmist.  Top-right we have Solusek/Rallos causing the destruction of Luclin (I know it isn't confirmed, but possible).  Bottom-right, people have talked about Erudin and Inny.  Maybe the corruption of the Elven king and queen?  Maybe it just hasn't happened yet.  Bottom-left a symbol often seen to represent Rallos.  Maybe him leading the Rallosian invasion?</p><p>The outer part of the second symbol, we think we have rise/fall of the Combine empire.  We have the awakening of Kerafym.  We have the invasion of the Void and something we don't know.</p><p>If the middle of the first symbol tells of the start of life, maybe the second tells of the end?  We probably have Mayong in there which would make sense with all his involvement.  Then we have two unknowns <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Maybe Theer? Maybe Lucan? (we know he has some story with Mayong)</p><p>It just strikes me as odd that one part seems to have a lot of god-related symbols and the other doesn't...</p>

[Noaani]

<p>Theory in the inner symbols that I expect someone to debunk...</p><p>The three of the symbols that we already knew of relate directly to deities; Brell, Tunare and Prexus. These three deities can be viewed as earth, water and life (a liberal interpretation).</p><p>My theory is that the two of the newer symbols from the inside part represent Xegony and whatever deity represents death. This gives us earth, air, water, life and death.</p><p>I'm still sticking with the center symbol of each representing Veeshan and Mystmyr, and the significance of them overlapping eachother being that one is imprisioned in the other.</p><p>My current theory is that the outside is a listing of events, either in order or not, that when followed to completion means the end of Norrath. The inner symbols represent how to prevent that.</p><p>Each of the 5 deities represented get together, pull out and put on the decoder ring they got in their morning cereal, point it in the air and speak the name of their domain. Upon doing this, Veeshan is freed from Mystmyr, and says "By your powers combined, I am <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Capian Pla </span>Veeshan!", and then goes about kicking the rare of whatever it is that is threatening Norrath. or something to that effect.</p><p>If the above were accurate (not likely) then it would mean mayong probably has different reasons for wanting to decipher this whole thing than we do. We are doing it to try and save ourselves, he just wants to go home.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If the symbols around the ourter ring are interpreted correctly, and if we proceed in a clockwise direction, then the sequence of events is out of order.</blockquote><p>Are they still out of order if you work clockwise, but start from the bottom?</p><p>Doing that, it goes something like this...</p><p>Something to do with the Combine Empire (possibly combine empires fall)Something to do with Rallosians or RallosSomething to do with the UnderfootSomething to do with the Greenmist Something to do with The Awakened (possibly the waking of Kerafyrm)The ShatteringVoid InvasionFuture event that involves Erudites.</p>

[Katanalla]

<p>They could also tell a story, for example if you start from the top center and go CW and inward. . .</p><p>Squigly spiral time passed, and a stag ate steak n' shake but was hit by a rhino's horn in the bumm! the circle of life was complete and the poor stag died. A jewish moose crossed the seas and won a compass in a high-stakes tic-tac-toe game against a bat.</p><p>Just a hunch anyways...</p>

[RaphaNissi]

<p>Going to throw in a few more facts that might help us decipher these new symbols.</p><p>1) The shissar took the symbols from the planar realms and used them to comprise a calendar of events that they called the Doomsday calendar because it foretold the death of the Shissar and the death of the Moon - Book of Sunder</p><p>Did they ever decipher the other symbols themselves?  The moon and themselves were definitely most important to them.  Where did they get the rest of the symbols they used that we don't see on the red symbol found in the planes?  Why didn't they use the blue symbols too?</p><p>Maybe we need to look at the Chelsith Stone and the new symbols as their own objects and not just different versions of the same thing.</p><p>What if the blue symbol is used to read the red symbol?  What if the blue symbol is a kind of "check-and-balance" for the red symbols?  Say each of the four compass points of the blue symbol represent major factions of Norrath i.e. dragons, dimensions, Norrathian major races, and Norrathian Underfoot.  When one faction is out of balance then the "event" takes place and brings the balance back to where it should be.  The center symbols could represent the entity(s) used to help with the order.</p><p>Just some thoughts outside of the box to hopefully spur some more ideas. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>If you use that idea, and use the circles as pieces and not a literal stack. You could essentially create of of those wheels that spin and align to create/show different numbers. I know some one knows that I am talking about.</p><p>If you spin the Blue to the right, 1 click, you have some interesting alignments </p><p>Kerafyrm + Shattering</p><p>The Void + Erudites (I have speculated that I think some erudites are void touched creatures we've seen, dealing with time travel, Miragul, etc... another story)</p><p>The Combine Empire + Rallos Zek?</p><p>The Underfoot + Greenmist?</p><p>Tunare + Infinity Symbol Thing?</p><p>Prexus + Some Thing?</p><p>That leaves Brell Unchecked, per se. That leaves the only thing that doesn't line up for the first turn. Maybe that's a clue that we're getting The Underfoot in our expansion too. EQ1 is getting it. With Sony condensing so much lately, one could argue that they are pooling ideas now.</p><p>With Odus coming up it would really give some validity that Erudite/The Void being linked as well as the Underfoot.</p>

[Cucuy]

<p><cite>Brailyn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you use that idea, and use the circles as pieces and not a literal stack. You could essentially create of of those wheels that spin and align to create/show different numbers. I know some one knows that I am talking about.</p><p>If you spin the Blue to the right, 1 click, you have some interesting alignments </p><p>Kerafyrm + Shattering</p><p>The Void + Erudites (I have speculated that I think some erudites are void touched creatures we've seen, dealing with time travel, Miragul, etc... another story)</p><p>The Combine Empire + Rallos Zek?</p><p>The Underfoot + Greenmist?</p><p>Tunare + Infinity Symbol Thing?</p><p>Prexus + Some Thing?</p><p>That leaves Brell Unchecked, per se. That leaves the only thing that doesn't line up for the first turn. Maybe that's a clue that we're getting The Underfoot in our expansion too. EQ1 is getting it. With Sony condensing so much lately, one could argue that they are pooling ideas now.</p><p>With Odus coming up it would really give some validity that Erudite/The Void being linked as well as the Underfoot.</p></blockquote><p>That almost sounds like the map on the last Pirates of the Carribean.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Ayaaa. All this speculation is starting to make my head spin. @_@</p><p>I do hope that the meanings of these symbols will be revealed soon..... Just... without any further Void involvement in the process. That storyline needs to be put to death.</p>

[Llogwey]

<p>well if the chelsith stone is the "angular stone" of the big Prophecy of Theer puzzle, and monoliths etc.. and these two diagrams are directly linked to Roehn Theer (with a role for both Aeteok and Enoxus) I doubt we are done with the forces of the Void alas... and the role of Theer is only at its beginning... I just hope there is no more of this anashti sul and voidmen stuff anymore but I can live with Theer related stuff on the other hand, nobody has discussed yet if there was any link with : Soulfire, being a weapon of Fire (mostly reddish) Claymore, being a weapon of "sky" (mostly bluish) and the fact that Soulfire opens the red diagram Claymore opens the blue diagram... Soulfire was used by the Avatar of Rallos Zek... in attempt to win the second rallosian war against Freeport Rallos Zek (and his avatar) may know the real power of Soulfire and after all the symbol of Zek is among the red diagram...linked to Aeteok.. but strangely, Soulfire was sought after by... Mistmoore who, in any case, would be linked to the blue diagram? We get Aeteok by "killing" Mistmoore... whom blue Ydal symbol closely linked to him, is center of the opposite diagram of Aeteok (red) We get Enoxus by defeating the orter of Awakened, closely linked to Kerafyrm and plane of Sky (possibly to race of dragons and veeshan too? who is center of the red diagram). the Veeshan symbol is the center of the opposite diagram (red) of Enoxus color (blue) maybe it's a matter of balance indeed... Enoxus (blue) being there to prevent events or deities related to the red diagram.... and Aeteok (red) for the opposite, here to prevent the events or deities related to the blue diagram... </p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Theory in the inner symbols that I expect someone to debunk...</p><p>The three of the symbols that we already knew of relate directly to deities; Brell, Tunare and Prexus. These three deities can be viewed as earth, water and life (a liberal interpretation).</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>My theory is that the two of the newer symbols from the inside part represent Xegony and whatever deity represents death. This gives us earth, air, water, life and death.</strong></span></p><p>I'm still sticking with the center symbol of each representing Veeshan and Mystmyr, and the significance of them overlapping eachother being that one is imprisioned in the other.</p><p>My current theory is that the outside is a listing of events, either in order or not, that when followed to completion means the end of Norrath. The inner symbols represent how to prevent that.</p><p>Each of the 5 deities represented get together, pull out and put on the decoder ring they got in their morning cereal, point it in the air and speak the name of their domain. Upon doing this, Veeshan is freed from Mystmyr, and says "By your powers combined, I am <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Capian Pla </span>Veeshan!", and then goes about kicking the rare of whatever it is that is threatening Norrath. or something to that effect.</p><p>If the above were accurate (not likely) then it would mean mayong probably has different reasons for wanting to decipher this whole thing than we do. We are doing it to try and save ourselves, he just wants to go home.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If they meant to give the 4 elements, they should have used the rathe council, the triumvate of water, xegony and Fenin Ro.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">tunare is the godess of growth ... it's also about earth, mother earth, it's not purely life.</span></p><p>in the EQ1 story he said the symbol bottom right was Bethoxulous ... why not his creation withion the xulous? Maybe it's not about erudites.</p><p>and as someone said, we don't know if those 2 circles are meant to be together or if one is the solution of the other. Because on the chelsith stone, the other part didn't exist.  So why would both circles overlap one another?</p><p>Last, what's the meaning of god's symbols in the middle? veshan, tunare, prexus, brell? why them and not quellious or solusek, mithaniel or errollisi?</p><p>do you remember who made the pact to create only one race at first?</p><p>there was brell, Tunare, Rallos, prexus, who else?</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p>A thought on those two inner symbols that we don't know.</p><p>The typical understanding of the inner symbols in the red one is that it's a representation of the beginning of life on Norrath: Veeshan comes, and then Brell, Tunare, and Prexus make a pact to create races to keep Veeshan's in check.  If that's the case, then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that the two symbols in the blue one are also gods that are tied to those events.  So, the next two gods to come were Rallos and... Innoruuk, right? (or was in Cazic?)</p><p>However, how sure are we of our interpretation of those first four symbols in the red one?  I mean, have we ever been told that those symbols represent those specific gods, or is it just a case of looking at it and saying "well, that looks kinda like a Brell symbol, and waves could be Prexus..." and so on?</p><p>Here's an alternative theory: the bat-like figure in the middle isn't Veeshan, it's Theer.  The symbols around him are gods, but not necessarily the ones tied to creation.  Rather, I would say these are the five gods that were most responsible for casting him into the Void.  I don't have any real ideas on which gods, specifically, but I do think that the top symbol that always been interpreted as Brell, could instead be Solusek Ro.  Think about it, the candle-looking thing over the arrow in the symbol could be interpreted as Sol Ro's crown of fire and spear of flame; it makes sense that Ro would be involved in banishing Theer, as Ro's the type that would probably be the first to resent having a babysitter, which is basically what Theer was; and if Sol Ro was one of the foremost in banishing him, then it explains why the Order of Flame has always been fighting the Void.  </p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>I still disagree that the center symbol is Veeshan, Kerafym, or anything of that. Why would the Ankh of Ydal, a Rune named for the first race of Dark Elves be overlaid atop it? I think much of the interest Mayong had in this is that he knew that symbol was him.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>It was never officially confirmed the center symbols were representatives of the deities. Players decided that and the devs didn't tell us exactly what they really are.</p><p>Example: Nine Dots rune = number of stones of EverQuest Live's druid rings = Protection of the Nine = *voila* It's Tunare! It also correlated to the creation story of keeping Veeshan in check!</p><p>Then it went on to accepting Brell and Prexus as other two, and Veeshan as the central symbol. After that, it extended to the four on the outside of the ring - Rallos, Cazic-Thule, and so on.</p><p>Most of previous explanations dismissed the "pointer" symbol - that it has no purpose but to point at the "Brell" rune -  "proving" Brell was one who started the pact. Something along that line.</p><p>Over time, it's kind of became an accepted explanation by the playerbase. It's all what we had to go off from. We were never told that was that by any official source.</p><p>_______</p><p>That was before the 2nd set was found. The mysterious arrow? It aligned perfectly with the new Ydal rune. That's why they can be overlapped. Everything lined up. The Blue and the Red can be both viewed separately and together.</p><p>Both required Exonus and Aeteok to be placed on the Maiden figures to be revealed. Individually it's either red verison or blue verison. But at same time? They overlapped.</p><p>Wasn't there something about keeping both weapons separated? That having them together will bring a consquence unforseen?</p>

[Larkverdin]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ayaaa. All this speculation is starting to make my head spin. @_@</p><p>I do hope that the meanings of these symbols will be revealed soon..... Just... without any further Void involvement in the process. That storyline needs to be put to death.</p></blockquote><p>I'm right there with ya Cusa. I wonder how long the devs will let us sit here and simmer in our own ponderous juices...</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I can't get around the fact that Exonus and Aeteok are both needed.  That fact alone just seems to scream Theer at me.  Theer is the destroyer of gods.  Theer is the avatar for the Nameless.  The two Hands of Theer were never supposed to come into contact with each other. </p><p>This is all linked into the continuing Void story line in some fashion.  The next LoN pack is their final chapter of the Ethernauts story called Stormbreaker due for release in July, and LoN reflects the current in-game themes.</p><p>We need to evaluate these symbols as they pertain to the game's current Void/Ethernauts story line.</p>

[Katanalla]

<p>Aye I'm on the boat with kill the storyline already :</p><p>Next storyline? . . .</p><p>Laser Bunnies From Beyond the Sky!!!!</p><p>Rodcets or someone's home planet beyond the cosmos is destroyed by a mysterious entity. . . Animals are mysteriously dissapearing from the shattered lands. Nathan Ironforge does not ask you if you've ever seen a gnoll before! Ratongas have dissapeared from the city scapes, new employees have taken to their markets. . .</p><p>The Skies over Faydwer turn black. . . Giant mushrooms are decaying, while giant carrots take their places. . . The first invasion wipes clear the feerrott forest, and already a mysterious fortress appears, over a vast plain where once forest stood. . .</p><p>This planet is no longer ours...</p><p>Dun. Dun. Dun...</p>

[Daine]

<p>RE: the wheel possibly being a countdown...</p><p>I heard a *rumor* (unfounded, unprovable) that EQ1 might shut down in the next few years.  If this happens, I could see EQ3 being released simultaneously to continue the EQ1 story line.</p><p>Zebuxoruk tells the story of Druzzil Ro splitting the EQ1 and EQ2 timelines (in 'The Words of Zebuxoruk).  If the stone *is* a countdown to the end of Norrath (in the EQ2 timeline) then perhaps when Norrath ends for THIS timeline, they will launch EQ3 as a continuation of the EQ1 timeline...thus redirecting all the fans into EQ3 for a combined EQ1+EQ2 community.  After all, Vhalen did say the Chelsith Stone is the key to EQ2's future!</p><p>If EQ1 and EQ2 are shut down, I hope this is the route they go.  The nostalgia of EQ1 with the community of both games, and the graphics and mechanics of today.  It might be fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Llogwey]

Well with Odus being next addon... and the erudin/symbol being the lower right symbol on the diagram is there a logic? The rune of oblivion was just before and it means the voidmen... (TSO) the rune of Awakaned was at the top and it means KoS in between there is the rune of sunder (and we see the rune of sunder in throne of new tunaria in EoF though I can't manage to see the link here)

[Illine]

<p>yeah maybe it's the greenmist, the awaking, the shattering then the void invasion and then something we don't know yet coz it's the new expansion and so hasn't happened yet.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p>Dunno if its just me, but I went and clicked this just to check it out.  Did you guys notice the light symbols going through the red and blue lights, they look like dots and other types of shapes like stars.  It might just be some quirky way soe did the graphic for the glimmer across the purple floor but it is wierd that it lights up like that going through the red a blue symbols.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Lonandor@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="text-align: left;">Hello There.</p><p>Good Job Coniaric, I started the same thing yesterday but you surpassed me !</p><p>If it can help you :</p><p><img src="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/RedBlue.jpg" /></p><p><a href="http://www.cd68tt.com/Lonan/Red1.jpg"></a></p></blockquote><p>Here is an example of what I mean, see on the right side just below the sundering symbol there is like a graphical star looking thing, well its like two of those things run through the image and are only seen through the red and blue lights when they are up you can also see it on the left side, its like the purple glimmer running through highlights something.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Llogwey wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Well with Odus being next addon... and the erudin/symbol being the lower right symbol on the diagram is there a logic? </blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The top symbol could refer to the birth of Kerafyrm (or formation of the Cult of the Awakened), the next refering to the Sundering, then the void invasion, and it is possible that this is where we are "up to" if this is the correct way to read it. <p>The next symbol seems to be that of either Odus or the Quellitullians, and it is rumoured that Odus may be featured in the next expansion, or possibly even before then.</p></blockquote><p>I'm still putting money on it being read like a clock. If it is, I think we all know where we are at, I just have no idea where the beginning or end of it are.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Dunno if its just me, but I went and clicked this just to check it out.  Did you guys notice the light symbols going through the red and blue lights, they look like dots and other types of shapes like stars.  It might just be some quirky way soe did the graphic for the glimmer across the purple floor but it is wierd that it lights up like that going through the red a blue symbols.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it's a "glimmer" of a kind. Watching the video, anyone can see that shining around and the runes pulse before entire thing faded. Then it's time to reapply either Claymore or Soulfire again.</p>

[Vanisher123]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm still putting money on it being read like a clock. If it is, I think we all know where we are at, I just have no idea where the beginning or end of it are.</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps its like a round timeline (no caboose jokes <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)? Start at the symbol of the ealierest group/event and go from there?</p>

[Lothlo]

<p>The inner blue "paw" mark could be a symbol of <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=83362" target="_blank">Erollisi Marr </a>, looks to be a chalice / cup of some kind. I don't recall seeing it in eq2 though, even during the Valentines stuff earlier this year. <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=83362" target="_blank"></a></p>

[Banorfeq2]

<p>I'm new to EQ2, but a long time eq player. I've always loved reading up on the lore and now getting into EQ2 I have a lot of catching up to do!</p><p>I've always taken the middle symbol to be Inny, and the circle to be depicting him cursing the other gods for leaving him out of the original pact to bring life to norrath.The markings we find everywhere are maybe reminders of what's still to come, that the dark elves will rise up and cause the destruction of the other races.</p><p>Maybe this new blue "calendar" is the countdown until Inny finally prevails with all the events leading up to it?</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span>The Age of Monuments</span></strong></span><span style="font-size: small;"> It was inevitable that such energies involved in seeding planets with life would attract even more of the gods, and it was the Elves who drew the unwanted attention of Innoruuk, Prince of Hate. In a decrepit tower overlooking the dark decaying alleys of the Plane over which he ruled, Innoruuk waited, stoking the fire of his Hate until it was a raging inferno. <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">He cursed his fellow gods for not including him in their pact and vowed to make them regret such disrespect.</span> </strong>From the halls of the Elves' fair city, Takish-Hiz, the Prince of Hate snatched away the first Elven King and Queen. In his realm of pain and anger he slowly tore them apart, physically and mentally, over the course of three hundred years. He then gathered the quivering remnants of these beings of light and rebuilt them into his own dark sadistic image, a twisted mockery of Tunare's noble children. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>In depositing the Teir'Dal, as Innoruuk's Dark Elven creations would come to be called, back into the Underfoot of Norrath, the seeds for The Prince of Hate's final revenge were sown.</strong></span></span></p>

[Banorfeq2]

<p><cite>Lothlo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The inner blue "paw" mark could be a symbol of <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=83362" target="_blank">Erollisi Marr </a>, looks to be a chalice / cup of some kind. I don't recall seeing it in eq2 though, even during the Valentines stuff earlier this year. <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=83362" target="_blank"></a></p></blockquote><p>I was just looking those over for the rime symbol and noticed that as well, I'd say that its probably the top choice for now.</p><p>I wonder if The Shard of Love or Erollisi have been corrupted by Ulkorruuk and Innorruuk</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p>So, the news out of Fan Faire is that Sentinel's Fate is going to finish the Void story.  I'm guessing then that the sentinel referenced is Theer himself.</p><p>Back to the symbol, if we assume it to be a calendar, and assume it to start at the 12 o' clock mark, here's what I'd guess the sequence of events to be (note: I am shamelessly making up names for some of these runes, don't read too much into it):</p><p>Rune of Awakening: the Sleeper awakens.</p><p>Rune of Sunder: Luclin shatters.</p><p>Rune of Vul: the Void invasion begins</p><p><span style="font-style: italic;">stuff to happen in the future:</span></p><p>Rune of Erud: the events of Sentinel's Fate</p><p>Rune of Combine: something tied to the ancient Combine Empire.</p><p>Rune of Zek: a major event involving one of the Rallosian races.</p><p>Rune of Roekillik: we'll learn the full truth about the Ratonga, and what's happening in the Underfoot.</p><p>Rune of Thule(?): maybe something with the Greenmist, or maybe this is the mark for the end of the world, which the Shissar would associate with Cazic and the Greenmist. </p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Back to the symbol, if we assume it to be a calendar, and assume it to start at the 12 o' clock mark, here's what I'd guess the sequence of events to be</blockquote><p>I'm thinking it may be more of a 6 O'clock start position.</p><p>I don't have a good enough knowledge of historic type events to know what order things happened, so most of this is guessing:</p><p>Fall of the Combine Empire</p><p>An event associated with a Rallosian race, possibly a Rallosian war, and/or the curse placed on Rallosian races.</p><p>An event that occured in the Underfoot, that we are as yet unaware of (it has been stated that we will learn more about the Ratonga in the next expansion, I am better that this event is what we will learn)</p><p>Use of the Greenmist, though obviously not against the Shissar.</p><p>Either awakening of the Sleeper, or formation of the Cult of the Awakened.</p><p>The shattering.</p><p>The Void invasion.</p><p>Event as yet to happen on Odus, involving the Erudites.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Back to the symbol, if we assume it to be a calendar, and assume it to start at the 12 o' clock mark, here's what I'd guess the sequence of events to be</blockquote><p>I'm thinking it may be more of a 6 O'clock start position.</p><p>I don't have a good enough knowledge of historic type events to know what order things happened, so most of this is guessing:</p><p>Fall of the Combine Empire</p><p>An event associated with a Rallosian race, possibly a Rallosian war, and/or the curse placed on Rallosian races.</p><p>An event that occured in the Underfoot, that we are as yet unaware of (it has been stated that we will learn more about the Ratonga in the next expansion, I am better that this event is what we will learn)</p><p>Use of the Greenmist, though obviously not against the Shissar.</p><p>Either awakening of the Sleeper, or formation of the Cult of the Awakened.</p><p>The shattering.</p><p>The Void invasion.</p><p>Event as yet to happen on Odus, involving the Erudites.</p></blockquote><p>Is there anyway that the two crossbone things (Greenmist) might be the first event?  Because if that shimmer of stars going through it does so in order of events that would be the first it hits.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Is there anyway that the two crossbone things (Greenmist) might be the first event?  Because if that shimmer of stars going through it does so in order of events that would be the first it hits.</blockquote><p>Obviously we have no idea where it starts, but if it starts with that symbol, and that symbol is indeed the greenmist, it means we go greenmist - awakened - shattering - void invasion - erudites - combine empire?</p><p>I mean, its entierly possible, but I just don't see them rezurecting the combine empire. If this is indeed supposed to be read as a clock, and if that symbol is indeed the combine empire, I would personally put that as an event that has already passed.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Is there anyway that the two crossbone things (Greenmist) might be the first event?  Because if that shimmer of stars going through it does so in order of events that would be the first it hits.</blockquote><p>Obviously we have no idea where it starts, but if it starts with that symbol, and that symbol is indeed the greenmist, it means we go greenmist - awakened - shattering - void invasion - erudites - combine empire?</p><p>I mean, its entierly possible, but I just don't see them rezurecting the combine empire. If this is indeed supposed to be read as a clock, and if that symbol is indeed the combine empire, I would personally put that as an event that has already passed.</p></blockquote><p>What is it is read in order of the shimmer passing through it?</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Is there anyway that the two crossbone things (Greenmist) might be the first event?  Because if that shimmer of stars going through it does so in order of events that would be the first it hits.</blockquote><p>Obviously we have no idea where it starts, but if it starts with that symbol, and that symbol is indeed the greenmist, it means we go greenmist - awakened - shattering - void invasion - erudites - combine empire?</p><p>I mean, its entierly possible, but I just don't see them rezurecting the combine empire. If this is indeed supposed to be read as a clock, and if that symbol is indeed the combine empire, I would personally put that as an event that has already passed.</p></blockquote><p>but wh would the shissar place the combined empire in the clock??</p><p>the clock isn't there for the end of the world? What is the combined empire doing here? Was it threatening the shissar?</p><p>And I still wonder why we could only see one part of the clock on the chelsith stone. The soulfire part. And we only discover now the claymore part. Why that?</p><p>I liked the idea of (red is what will happen, like the gods actions and bleue the norratian actions? what will be made to protect ourselves??)</p>

[Banorfeq2]

<p>Quick question, has anyone actually ever confirmed that the Chelsith Stone and the markings the Soulfire bring forth that we've seen everywhere in EQ1 are actually the same thing? The three inside markings on the Chelsith stone are very different. The top one seems to be a lightning bolt, almost like a marking for Karana, the left on is waves and the right one looks like a plant, not to mention there's also the addition of an eye symbol. I don't see how they would change it so significantly for that one piece of Art for the future of Everquest 2 and then return to the original markings seen in this thread.</p><p>Additionally, how would the markings of the Chelsith stone have appeared all over Norrath?</p>

[Ujina]

<p>Anybody noticed that the shadow men in the new Kurn's tower single group instance are named Theerean (sp) something ? Would there be some servant of Theer ? I couldn't finish the instance (last named) so i don't know the rest of the story but it seems that it's time for Theer to be the star <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[kyrr]

<p>Well the last dude says something about how you haven't really won and he'll be seeing you again later. I just assumed he'd be somewhere in the x2, but I don't know as I'm pretty sure even avatar guilds are having a hard time w/it.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Seeing that the Sentinel's Fate will concludes the Void storyline, Theer will likely play a major role there and with Anashti Sul being out of the Void with TSO, most of the Shadowed Men that follow her likely are weakened and directionless. Her main goal was to return to Norrath ... she succeed, though not the way she would had expected.</p><p>And so that leave the ones that follow Theer until he's back in Norrathian universe or lost the fight and stay trapped in the Void.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>kyrrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well the last dude says something about how you haven't really won and he'll be seeing you again later. I just assumed he'd be somewhere in the x2, but I don't know as I'm pretty sure even avatar guilds are having a hard time w/it.</p></blockquote><p>The end of the Order of Rime storyline involves killing her at the top of Kurns X2. Yes. Her.</p>

[therodge]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kyrrah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well the last dude says something about how you haven't really won and he'll be seeing you again later. I just assumed he'd be somewhere in the x2, but I don't know as I'm pretty sure even avatar guilds are having a hard time w/it.</p></blockquote><p>The end of the Order of Rime storyline involves killing her at the top of Kurns X2. Yes. Her.</p></blockquote><p>i know it was officially stated as a her but uh how could anyone tell.</p>

[Lonandor68]

<div>Concerning the stars on the circles, I check my video captures that are not in the one I gave you, it seems that there is one wave which goes to Northwest to Southeast. Wave cross both circles but it's difficult to see it.</div><div><div><div>Here's what I saw : <a href="http://pagepersoneo.site.voila.fr/Stars.htm">link</a> </div></div></div>

[kyrr]

<p>I used dude as a generic term. In all honesty I thought void creatures were sexless.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I'm not exactly convinced that the "sparkling" effect actually means anything.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm not exactly convinced that the "sparkling" effect actually means anything.</p></blockquote><p>It doesn't. It's just more of an effect.</p>

[Triasa]

<p>A couple of thoughts that come to mind...</p><p>According to Mayong, at the end of the Fate of Norrath quest, the Chelsith Stone was once a part of the Shissar Calendar.  "Ages End" is marked on the calendar itself, not on the Chelsith Stone ("The shissar marked the end of our universe on that calendar, Ages End.").  Of the stone, Mayong said "It is the sigil at the heart of the calendar, or it was..."</p><p>Seems possible that the blue symbols are the Shissar Calendar that Mayong was excavating from Levi's chamber.  The actual "Ages End" event would be on it, and the red symbols (Chelsith Stone) would be the key to understanding it.</p><p>Is it possible that the four symbols on the outside of the blue symbol represent the four eras of Norrath from the Shissar point of view?  And that the four outer symbols of the red symbol represent cause/effect?</p><p>Example:  Rune of Oblivion-Euridin symbol (seems like Sentinel's Fate will be tying these two together, possibly).  Rallos Zek-Combine Empire (not sure on this one - didn't the Rallosians use the Combine Empire's teleportation to wage the second Rallosian War?).  Underfoot?-Cazic Thule? (no clue).  Awakened-Rune of Sunder (don't Darathar and Naggy claim Kerafyrm was responsible for Luclin's destruction?).</p><p>No ideas on the interior symbols yet, just thinking out loud here. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Just my thoughts - I'm probably way off, but it's fun to guess.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>Just a little refresher from <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415177" target="_blank">this thread</a>.  The Erudite symbol is called the <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=58DF6141E45C6DCC528D613511B2F35D" target="_blank">appropriated sigil of phenomenon</a>.</p><p>Also, Banorfeg2 noted that the symbols on the Chelsith Stone (as posted by Mary and Aneova on page 3) don't quite match the ones on the symbol seen everywhere.  Mary and Aneova posted screenshots on page 3, here's a pic posted by Onyx ages ago that shows all the symbols except the one we restore at the bottom more clearly:</p><p><img src="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg" /></p><p>The versions on the Chelsith stone are also seen on some (not all) of the druid rings around Norrath (screen shots from the druid rings posted towards the bottom of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=200&topic_id=415177�" target="_blank">this page</a>).  I believe Shattered Vale, Commonlands, and Kunzar Jungle have them all except the eye which is penetrating the ring.  I did see the eye symbol on what looked to be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in last year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p>

[Greyquill]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just a little refresher from <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415177" target="_blank">this thread</a>.  The Erudite symbol is called the <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=58DF6141E45C6DCC528D613511B2F35D" target="_blank">appropriated sigil of phenomenon</a>.</p><p>Also, Banorfeg2 noted that the symbols on the Chelsith Stone (as posted by Mary and Aneova on page 3) don't quite match the ones on the symbol seen everywhere.  Mary and Aneova posted screenshots on page 3, here's a pic posted by Onyx ages ago that shows all the symbols except the one we restore at the bottom more clearly:</p><p><img src="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg" /></p><p>The versions on the Chelsith stone are also seen on some (not all) of the druid rings around Norrath (screen shots from the druid rings posted towards the bottom of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=200&topic_id=415177�" target="_blank">this page</a>).  I believe Shattered Vale, Commonlands, and Kunzar Jungle have them all except the eye which is penetrating the ring.  I did see the eye symbol on what looked to be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in last year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>This has been confusing me for a while now. We've become familiar with two versions of the art from this stone. The one above with the druid ring symbols and the version from the palace with the pictograms. It's possible to draw very different conclusions depending on the version you're looking at. The stone depicted above has the added "eye" glyph and the blank spot on the bottom. Both are apparently absent in the palace version. Discrepancies aside... the banner art for the new expac does feature an "eye" very prominantly... could the eye intruding into the circle be representative of Theer returning to Norrath? As for our new blue circle overlay from the palace... the upper left symbol which some have said looks like a paw... someone earlier mentioned it looking similar to a glyph used in EQ1 for Erollisi. I can kind of see that... but, another thought strikes me. The old symbol for Qeynos shows a castle with three rays eminating from the top. Is it possible that the two new symbols from inside the blue palace circle are representative of Exonus (the Qeynos Claymore, Qeynos having adopted the older planner symbol of its most sacred relic) and Aeteok (the Soulfire)? What we end up with then is the inner red circle containing the symbols of powerful entities (3 gods and an unknown personage) and the inner blue cirlce containing the symbols of three very powerful relics (the godslayer's swords and the Ankh that scarred Mayong). I'm also becoming enamoured of the idea that the dragon headed symbol on the stone has more to do with the Teir'dal/Innoruuk and less to do with any actual dragon (read: Veshaan, Karafym).</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just a little refresher from <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415177" target="_blank">this thread</a>.  The Erudite symbol is called the <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=58DF6141E45C6DCC528D613511B2F35D" target="_blank">appropriated sigil of phenomenon</a>.</p><p>Also, Banorfeg2 noted that the symbols on the Chelsith Stone (as posted by Mary and Aneova on page 3) don't quite match the ones on the symbol seen everywhere.  Mary and Aneova posted screenshots on page 3, here's a pic posted by Onyx ages ago that shows all the symbols except the one we restore at the bottom more clearly:</p><p><img src="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg" /></p><p>The versions on the Chelsith stone are also seen on some (not all) of the druid rings around Norrath (screen shots from the druid rings posted towards the bottom of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=200&topic_id=415177�" target="_blank">this page</a>).  I believe Shattered Vale, Commonlands, and Kunzar Jungle have them all except the eye which is penetrating the ring.  I did see the eye symbol on what looked to be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in last year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>This has been confusing me for a while now. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>We've become familiar with two versions of the art from this stone</strong></span>. The one above with the druid ring symbols and the version from the palace with the pictograms. It's possible to draw very different conclusions depending on the version you're looking at. The stone depicted above has the added "eye" glyph and the blank spot on the bottom. Both are apparently absent in the palace version. Discrepancies aside... the banner art for the new expac does feature an "eye" very prominantly... could the eye intruding into the circle be representative of Theer returning to Norrath? As for our new blue circle overlay from the palace... the upper left symbol which some have said looks like a paw... someone earlier mentioned it looking similar to a glyph used in EQ1 for Erollisi. I can kind of see that... but, another thought strikes me. The old symbol for Qeynos shows a castle with three rays eminating from the top. Is it possible that the two new symbols from inside the blue palace circle are representative of Exonus (the Qeynos Claymore, Qeynos having adopted the older planner symbol of its most sacred relic) and Aeteok (the Soulfire)? What we end up with then is the inner red circle containing the symbols of powerful entities (3 gods and an unknown personage) and the inner blue cirlce containing the symbols of three very powerful relics (the godslayer's swords and the Ankh that scarred Mayong). I'm also becoming enamoured of the idea that the dragon headed symbol on the stone has more to do with the Teir'dal/Innoruuk and less to do with any actual dragon (read: Veshaan, Karafym).</p></blockquote><p>remember the chelsith stone was made by the shissar while the symbol in anashti's room was made by something else.</p><p>They have things alike but maybe shissars didn't know everything.</p>

[Fae]

<p>Is there any correlation between the four dots surround the eye and the for points surrounding the centre stone?</p><p>Also, is there any importance that the two dots, the west and north, are connected?</p><p>Just thought I'd point something out.</p>

[Blargydeath]

<p>Just as a side note/point of interest, take a look at the Mistmoore symbols you can get from the lockboxes (dropped before, as well, obviously).</p><p><span style="color: #ffffff; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">aITEM 1337083663 -177910572:Powermonger's Lockbox/a</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11px; color: #ffffff; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">aITEM -638750072 652336320:Vampire Hunter's Lockbox/a</span></p><p>Edit: disabled smilies.  Boo.</p>

[Vanisher123]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I did see the eye symbol on what looked to<strong> be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in las</strong>t year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>I've seen that symbol in the loading screen art, but its included with pictures of barbarians.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I did see the eye symbol on what looked to<strong> be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in las</strong>t year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>I've seen that symbol in the loading screen art, but its included with pictures of barbarians.</p></blockquote><p>That is actually the symbol of the Runnyeye Goblins. You can see the tear "Running" from the eye. You saw it all over Runnyeye in EQlive.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>By the way, the EverQuest 10th Anniversary book has some lore on The Shissar Calendar. Page 186.</p><p>It's actually a 4 part calendar. The Chelsith Stone is only part 3 of the calendar.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>the artwork in the book was concept stuff. no way of knowing if thats how it will be in the game itslef, but i did find it interesting.</p>

[KERSTYNN]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just a little refresher from <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415177" target="_blank">this thread</a>.  The Erudite symbol is called the <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=58DF6141E45C6DCC528D613511B2F35D" target="_blank">appropriated sigil of phenomenon</a>.</p><p>Also, Banorfeg2 noted that the symbols on the Chelsith Stone (as posted by Mary and Aneova on page 3) don't quite match the ones on the symbol seen everywhere.  Mary and Aneova posted screenshots on page 3, here's a pic posted by Onyx ages ago that shows all the symbols except the one we restore at the bottom more clearly:</p><p><img src="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg" /></p><p>The versions on the Chelsith stone are also seen on some (not all) of the druid rings around Norrath (screen shots from the druid rings posted towards the bottom of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=200&topic_id=415177�" target="_blank">this page</a>).  I believe Shattered Vale, Commonlands, and Kunzar Jungle have them all except the eye which is penetrating the ring.  I did see the eye symbol on what looked to be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in last year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>Just had a strange thought while looking at this:</p><p>With it being in what appears to be 3d relief, what are the chances that the half sphere in the stone represents Norrath?</p><p>With the symbols we are seeing on it correlating to the various dieties that laid claim to it starting with Veeshan and spreading out to the others?</p><p>Anyhow thats what the central portion kind of reminds me of...not sure if anyone else noted the same things or not.. not sure about the outside symbols? Maybe representing the other gods and the empty slot a god(dess) as yet not returned (at the time this was discovered?</p><p>Anyhow just amateur speculation on it..</p><p>~K~</p>

[Greyquill]

<p>In answer to the above posting, yes. I've always kind of felt the circle/hemisphere to be representative of Norrath.</p><p>Just throwing this out there. If the Chelsith Stone is part 3 of a 4 part whole, then maybe it's possbile that the negative spaces on the outer ring, even with the 4 new ones from the blue ring discovered on the floor of the Palace, are still waiting to be filled in. If there are two more pieces pieces of the puzzle and each has another 4 symbols... then a completed outer ring may very well consist of 16 symbols... the monoliths of Theer? Not physical representations, but events of great importance to the non-god and his avatar.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>By the way, the EverQuest 10th Anniversary book has some lore on The Shissar Calendar. Page 186.</p><p>It's actually a 4 part calendar. The Chelsith Stone is only part 3 of the calendar.</p></blockquote><p>So we only have half of the calander...</p>

[Zykdous]

<p><cite>KERSTYNN wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just a little refresher from <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415177" target="_blank">this thread</a>.  The Erudite symbol is called the <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=58DF6141E45C6DCC528D613511B2F35D" target="_blank">appropriated sigil of phenomenon</a>.</p><p>Also, Banorfeg2 noted that the symbols on the Chelsith Stone (as posted by Mary and Aneova on page 3) don't quite match the ones on the symbol seen everywhere.  Mary and Aneova posted screenshots on page 3, here's a pic posted by Onyx ages ago that shows all the symbols except the one we restore at the bottom more clearly:</p><p><img src="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg" /></p><p>The versions on the Chelsith stone are also seen on some (not all) of the druid rings around Norrath (screen shots from the druid rings posted towards the bottom of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=200&topic_id=415177�" target="_blank">this page</a>).  I believe Shattered Vale, Commonlands, and Kunzar Jungle have them all except the eye which is penetrating the ring.  I did see the eye symbol on what looked to be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in last year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>Just had a strange thought while looking at this:</p><p>With it being in what appears to be 3d relief, what are the chances that the half sphere in the stone represents Norrath?</p><p>With the symbols we are seeing on it correlating to the various dieties that laid claim to it starting with Veeshan and spreading out to the others?</p><p>Anyhow thats what the central portion kind of reminds me of...not sure if anyone else noted the same things or not.. not sure about the outside symbols? Maybe representing the other gods and the empty slot a god(dess) as yet not returned (at the time this was discovered?</p><p>Anyhow just amateur speculation on it..</p><p>~K~</p></blockquote><p>Hmm.. I notice there are 8 existing and 1 missing symbol. That is 9. The ninth missing. Did we ever find out who the ninth prophet was?</p>

[Illine]

<p>yes the missing is a tree.</p><p>you get it by killing trakanon and finishing the epic quest !!</p>

[RaphaNissi]

<p>Chances are pretty good the "nine" was refering to the Ethernauts and not to the prophets.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>I don't think the Heralds of the Nine had anything to do with the Ethernauts.</p><p>The Keeper of Secrets has not been given any updating since the Mara adventure pack, and still says something like "The Heralds of the Nine shall become known when the One Who Walked From The Water is made hole", which referred to Zeb and killing Chel'drak to unlock his memories. Afterwards EoF went live and so did diety quests.</p>

[Llogwey]

wasn't the ninth god to appear... meant to appear at first actually with the 8 others, Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane? as for the runny Eye altar cloth you see in RunnyEye actually, the blue circle and the yellowish little circle above it from the lower left.... it's a conceptual schema of the same designe, the big circle with Veeshan in the middle... In the Shissar stone there are three pictograms inside this sphere : what looks like waves, storms and flame (pictograms from the druid rings) and this Eye... symbol of goblins....goblins from Runnyeye actually? I know that's a bit "extrapolated", but many goblins now follow bristlebane no? and Bristlebane is god of Mischief... and Plane of Mischief was reached... via Velious? is there a link, all coincidences? or I am totally out of place?

[Llogwey]

oh and by the way : "Heralds of the Nine shall become known when the One Who Walked From The Water is made hole" that simply means : the return of the (first) nine returning gods will be back on norrath, once Zebuxoruk is made whole with his spirit (kept in safety by Chel'Drak, and once you kill Chel'Drak, the ermit of Village of Shin who was found coming from the water... happens to be Zebuxoruk who once again remembers himself..." this part of lore is finished... and has been finished for quite a while... and the prophecy has happened <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... Finishing the Fallen Dynasty timeline was somehow the prequel of the new deity system to appear...

[thecynic315]

<p>I thought the 9 were the Ethernaughts that we meet in PoF</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p><cite>Androw@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I thought the 9 were the Ethernaughts that we meet in PoF</p></blockquote><p>No.</p>

[Banorfeq2]

<p><cite>Llogwey wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>wasn't the ninth god to appear... meant to appear at first actually with the 8 others, Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane? as for the runny Eye altar cloth you see in RunnyEye actually, the blue circle and the yellowish little circle above it from the lower left.... it's a conceptual schema of the same designe, the big circle with Veeshan in the middle... In the Shissar stone there are three pictograms inside this sphere : what looks like waves, storms and flame (pictograms from the druid rings) and this Eye... symbol of goblins....goblins from Runnyeye actually? I know that's a bit "extrapolated", but many goblins now follow bristlebane no? and Bristlebane is god of Mischief... and Plane of Mischief was reached... via Velious? is there a link, all coincidences? or I am totally out of place? </blockquote><p>Runnyeye goblins worshipped Brell in EQ1. I'm not sure if they still do though</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>KERSTYNN wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just a little refresher from <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415177" target="_blank">this thread</a>.  The Erudite symbol is called the <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=58DF6141E45C6DCC528D613511B2F35D" target="_blank">appropriated sigil of phenomenon</a>.</p><p>Also, Banorfeg2 noted that the symbols on the Chelsith Stone (as posted by Mary and Aneova on page 3) don't quite match the ones on the symbol seen everywhere.  Mary and Aneova posted screenshots on page 3, here's a pic posted by Onyx ages ago that shows all the symbols except the one we restore at the bottom more clearly:</p><p><img src="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg" /></p><p>The versions on the Chelsith stone are also seen on some (not all) of the druid rings around Norrath (screen shots from the druid rings posted towards the bottom of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=200&topic_id=415177�" target="_blank">this page</a>).  I believe Shattered Vale, Commonlands, and Kunzar Jungle have them all except the eye which is penetrating the ring.  I did see the eye symbol on what looked to be <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283192@N00/2966621900/in/set-72157602341690218/" target="_blank">altar cloths</a> in last year's Night's of the Dead event, and when I asked about it on the boards I was told it's the symbol of Runnyeye.</p></blockquote><p>Just had a strange thought while looking at this:</p><p>With it being in what appears to be 3d relief, what are the chances that the half sphere in the stone represents Norrath?</p><p>With the symbols we are seeing on it correlating to the various dieties that laid claim to it starting with Veeshan and spreading out to the others?</p><p>Anyhow thats what the central portion kind of reminds me of...not sure if anyone else noted the same things or not.. not sure about the outside symbols? Maybe representing the other gods and the empty slot a god(dess) as yet not returned (at the time this was discovered?</p><p>Anyhow just amateur speculation on it..</p><p>~K~</p></blockquote><p>So, the stone represents Veeshan placing her race upon Norrath. Then Tunare, Karana and Prexus following behind to place their own races. Luclin placed her own brood close to but not upon Norrath so her symbol lies slightly appart from the raised section.</p><p> Then an unknown ancient force dared to rise an attempt...something. Not much is known about the symbol in the lower right but I suspect it stands for Cazic and his creations which were amongst the first to create empires. The rallosians attempted to gain dominion over all other races and take over Norrath with their own grand empire. This was only twarted by the next symbol, the greenmist. The greenmist has had its dominon over Norrath for all the known ages, but now its time of dominion is comming to an end. We move into the time of the rune of sunder. We are the rune of sunder. We are the future of EQ2.</p><p>Let us follow the rune of sunder and put an end to the current age. Let us overthrow these petty squabbling so called gods who withdrew from a world in crisis. Let us take up this mighty drill and pierce the heavens! Let us de-throne these would be rules of all Norrath and restore Theer to his rightful position, Judge over the beings. Let us begin the age of the Spiral races. Let us..take a commercial break from this Tegen Toppa Gurren-Lagann parody. Stay tuned! (or tooned)</p>

[Banorfeq2]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, the stone represents Veeshan placing her race upon Norrath. Then Tunare, Karana and Prexus following behind to place their own races. Luclin placed her own brood close to but not upon Norrath so her symbol lies slightly appart from the raised section.</p><p> Then an unknown ancient force dared to rise an attempt...something. Not much is known about the symbol in the lower right but I suspect it stands for Cazic and his creations which were amongst the first to create empires. The rallosians attempted to gain dominion over all other races and take over Norrath with their own grand empire. This was only twarted by the next symbol, the greenmist. The greenmist has had its dominon over Norrath for all the known ages, but now its time of dominion is comming to an end. We move into the time of the rune of sunder. We are the rune of sunder. We are the future of EQ2.</p><p>Let us follow the rune of sunder and put an end to the current age. Let us overthrow these petty squabbling so called gods who withdrew from a world in crisis. Let us take up this mighty drill and pierce the heavens! Let us de-throne these would be rules of all Norrath and restore Theer to his rightful position, Judge over the beings. Let us begin the age of the Spiral races. Let us..take a commercial break from this Tegen Toppa Gurren-Lagann parody. Stay tuned! (or tooned)</p></blockquote><p>Karana was never part of the original pact, was Tunare, Brell and Prexus.</p><p>The 4 symbols on the Chelsith stone however could be (top) the rending, (left) the seas rising and becoming impassible, (bottom left) the shattering, Luclin blowing up and pieces crashing into Norrath, (right) no idea, looks like a plant, maybe war of the fay though I dont know what that would have to do with the end of the world</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Banorfeq2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, the stone represents Veeshan placing her race upon Norrath. Then Tunare, Karana and Prexus following behind to place their own races. Luclin placed her own brood close to but not upon Norrath so her symbol lies slightly appart from the raised section.</p><p> Then an unknown ancient force dared to rise an attempt...something. Not much is known about the symbol in the lower right but I suspect it stands for Cazic and his creations which were amongst the first to create empires. The rallosians attempted to gain dominion over all other races and take over Norrath with their own grand empire. This was only twarted by the next symbol, the greenmist. The greenmist has had its dominon over Norrath for all the known ages, but now its time of dominion is comming to an end. We move into the time of the rune of sunder. We are the rune of sunder. We are the future of EQ2.</p><p>Let us follow the rune of sunder and put an end to the current age. Let us overthrow these petty squabbling so called gods who withdrew from a world in crisis. Let us take up this mighty drill and pierce the heavens! Let us de-throne these would be rules of all Norrath and restore Theer to his rightful position, Judge over the beings. Let us begin the age of the Spiral races. Let us..take a commercial break from this Tegen Toppa Gurren-Lagann parody. Stay tuned! (or tooned)</p></blockquote><p>Karana was never part of the original pact, was Tunare, Brell and Prexus.</p><p>The 4 symbols on the Chelsith stone however could be (top) the rending, (left) the seas rising and becoming impassible, (bottom left) the shattering, Luclin blowing up and pieces crashing into Norrath, (right) no idea, looks like a plant, maybe war of the fay though I dont know what that would have to do with the end of the world</p></blockquote><p>Umm...that was all for parody. Rune of sunder is a spiral, which looks like a drill and if you've ever herd of Gurren-Lagann that would all make so much sense.</p><p>On a more serious note: Karana might not have been part of the pact, but those are the 3 inner god symbols. The one next to the globe but not in it is as yet unidentified. The Runnyeye Goblins use it though, but we don't have any connection to something with a planar origin. It should have a planar origin since that is what the Shissar use to make their calendar was planar symbols. To make my parody work, it has to be the moon and thus Luclin.</p><p>The Runnyeye goblins are probably using the symbol due to it being an eye. Nothing more, nothing less. Possibly, possibly it has something more to do with the beholders. They are extra-planar in origin and just as associated with Runnyeye as the goblins themselves. We still don't know the true origin of beholders.</p><p>As for the surrounding symbols we know that the spiral is sunder. The x is most likely a greenmist refrence. The symbol on the bottom left is associated with Ralos Zek. The symbol on the bottom right is associated with Euradin and is noted in a collection to be a "misappropriated symbol of phenomenim". The outer symbols are likely events rather than dieties but it could be we've misinterpreted and each symbol represents the interference of a planar being. I'm using planar being because the greenmist doesn't seem to be a diety. If this is the case then sunder seems to represent Theer. Or possibly the symbol we all have taken to mean Veeshan is actually Theer? Doubtful but possible.</p><p>That leaves the one unknown symbol. It could be a refrence to Cazic. Does anyone know of a different symbol for Cazic? The other major possability which is lended credience by the "misappropriated" title would be a symbol for Anashti-Sul. She was removed from the pathenon by the other dieties, but her symbol woud probably remain. It would make sense to include her in the calendar, since the calendar pre-dates her banishment. Remember that she was actively worshipped upto the time that the desert of Ro was created.</p><p>Hmm...actually I'm not sure when she was banished. Did she have worshipers while banished? If so, how did she answer when her high priest called upon her? That's a bit of a mystery.</p><p>Its also possible that the final symbol refres to Theer and that the sunder symbol represents either something else, like maybe the nameless himself, or the void as a seperate entity from Theer or the Nameless.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><cite>Blargydeath wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just as a side note/point of interest, take a look at the Mistmoore symbols you can get from the lockboxes (dropped before, as well, obviously).</p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 11px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">aITEM 1337083663 -177910572<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />owermonger's Lockbox/a</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11px; color: #ffffff;">aITEM -638750072 652336320:Vampire Hunter's Lockbox/a</span></p><p>Edit: disabled smilies.  Boo.</p></blockquote><p>The <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=B9CC147676512755A4AA9316DAF820F4" target="_blank">Mistmoore</a> <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=728845B783011E3700A5B71D8D5FE7F9" target="_blank">Symbols</a>?  Hadn't seen those before, very interesting.  There's a third one as well, <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=AA09CE94993740613C2EA2DEEF9F7779" target="_blank">Mistmoore Symbol of the Manor</a>.  So he's using the Erudite symbol, the Rallosian one, and the center Inny/Dragon/Whatnot one.</p><p>And he's the one who seems to know the most about the Chelsith stone, so I'd think he'd know what the symbols are, and possibly what they really mean.  So why's he using them for his repository, abbey, and manor?</p>

[Greyquill]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Blargydeath wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just as a side note/point of interest, take a look at the Mistmoore symbols you can get from the lockboxes (dropped before, as well, obviously).</p><p><span style="color: #ffffff; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">aITEM 1337083663 -177910572<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />owermonger's Lockbox/a</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff; font-size: 11px;">aITEM -638750072 652336320:Vampire Hunter's Lockbox/a</span></p><p>Edit: disabled smilies.  Boo.</p></blockquote><p>The <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=B9CC147676512755A4AA9316DAF820F4" target="_blank">Mistmoore</a> <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=728845B783011E3700A5B71D8D5FE7F9" target="_blank">Symbols</a>?  Hadn't seen those before, very interesting.  There's a third one as well, <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=AA09CE94993740613C2EA2DEEF9F7779" target="_blank">Mistmoore Symbol of the Manor</a>.  So he's using the Erudite symbol, the Rallosian one, and the center Inny/Dragon/Whatnot one.</p><p>And he's the one who seems to know the most about the Chelsith stone, so I'd think he'd know what the symbols are, and possibly what they really mean.  So why's he using them for his repository, abbey, and manor?</p></blockquote><p>There was a post in the Tradeskill forums from Domino talking about limiting the total number of displayable icons to save server space and reduce lag. Now, that post was in refrence harvestable icons, but I'd imagine art choices for pretty much anything else follows the same logic. Still, I did find the art departments appropriation of those particular symbols interesting. Was it an intentional or asthetic choice is the question. And why these three zones? The symbol of the Repository is "The Erudite Glyph", AKA "The Appropriated Sigil of Phenomina". We know that Ravenscale is where Mayong has secreted away his most prized possessions. The symbol of the Abbey depicts the glyph we've been associating with Rallos Zek and Evernight is where we learn the identities of, and subsequently destroy a la "Blade", the chiefs of the 5 pureblood clans. Mystmyr Manor's symbol shows the "Face" glyph... still up for interpretation. I've never been real clear on the story we get from the Manor other than it being Mayong's personal quarters. For that reason, and the recent discovery of the Ankh of the Ydal in the blue overlay from the Palace of the Ancient One, I believe that the central figure on the Chelsith Stone to be representative of Mayong... the Ankh did scar his face afterall... and in the two rings... the blue Ankh lies in the same location as the red Face.</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>So, perhaps the completed calendar is a prophecy of each major empire that will appear on Norrath before the apocalypse? Perhaps Veeshan returning to destroy Norrath? Or perhaps she returns to unite the diverse empires against an even greater threat?</p><p>How many symbols do we have left?</p>

[Vanisher123]

<p><cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><p> the Ankh did scar his face afterall... and in the two rings... the blue Ankh lies in the same location as the red Face.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm to perhaps this prophecy is not only about theer but about Myong as well...</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>Aha!  Knew I'd seen another reference to The Nine besides the Keeper of Secrets.</p><p>From Zebuxoruk's Book of Prophecies, found in Castle Mistmoore:</p><p>13. The Nine shall return and face the end. "And the true key. We just do not know the ninth. I trust you will find the information though. -SV"</p><p>I found this too, from Symbols of Ages Past (found in the same place): Several of the pages in this book have been marked. Though the book is written in the common tongue, it is an ancient form and many of the words are undecipherable. You can make out '...the nine dots represent the...for they shall return and...' as well as a reference to '...two forged in the fire of...' and later on, a reference to a mysterious stone that somehow binds these two together.</p><p>Full text of the books plus others, and some discussion of it, found <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=187650�" target="_blank">here</a>. I remember somewhere there was discussion of the Ethernauts actually being the Nine (which at the time I shot down as there were 10 Ethernauts).  Since Miragul ended up being along for the ride for his own reasons, and abandoning them at the end, this brings the Ethernauts, rather than 9 gods, back into contention.  I bring this up because the second book I quoted specifically refers to "the nine dots" (like on the red diagram?) and suggests they represent multiple beings rather than just one goddess.  Whether the nine dots represent the same thing as the Nine, whether the Nine were the Ethernauts and Mayong's sage either knew the identities of all but one or thought (as we did) that it referred to nine gods returning... dunno.  But if the Nine are the Ethernauts, and the nine dots represent them, then those inner symbols don't represent gods - they're either events or pivotal people in those events.  The Ethernauts did come back in a manner of speaking, after all.  And while they didn't face Age's End, they did face the end of their own quest - Anashti and her anchors to Norrath.  They just didn't know there was more beyond her.</p><p>I hope I'm not rambling as much as I fear I am...</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p>You know, the center symbol being representitive of Mayong (or maybe the Ydal), or maybe his race/empire, makes alot of sense, and it actually fits MUCH better then the theory that that symbol actually represents Veeshan. Why? B/c that symbol in the center is seen around Neriak, and has been associated with, and used by the Dark Elves, so the theory that is has something to do w/ Mayong, and his race/people/empire fits pretty well actually.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>I would say the other center symbol, the blue one, probably is the Y'dal symbol if anything. But the thing with the veeshaan symbol maybe somethign different. mayb e it's like this:</p><p>the Y'dal/Veeshan smybol overlap in the center. none of the other symbols do on both colors. it could be the Y'dal (seeing as how Mayong if he was a 'Y'dal' before become a vampire) was there to see the First Brood. so the Y'dal from Hate, and Veeshan's brood being place on norrath at about the same time. some of the other symbols are common for certain place/societies...liek the combine symbol. so you could say yes, these are all 'events' and not 'deities' represented, and still keep the Y'dal/Veeshan connection without claiming one symbol is different then we thought it was.</p>

[Enever]

<p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, perhaps the completed calendar is a prophecy of each major empire that will appear on Norrath before the apocalypse? Perhaps Veeshan returning to destroy Norrath? Or perhaps she returns to unite the diverse empires against an even greater threat?</p><p>How many symbols do we have left?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a lore nut, though this is what is interesting.</p><p>If Norrath is to fight a greater threat, and Veeshan only cares for her dragonkin (I am probably wrong). Wouldn't the Mother defend her young?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Enever wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, perhaps the completed calendar is a prophecy of each major empire that will appear on Norrath before the apocalypse? Perhaps Veeshan returning to destroy Norrath? Or perhaps she returns to unite the diverse empires against an even greater threat?</p><p>How many symbols do we have left?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a lore nut, though this is what is interesting.</p><p>If Norrath is to fight a greater threat, and Veeshan only cares for her dragonkin (I am probably wrong). Wouldn't the Mother defend her young?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. We're talking about a god who left her dragons on Norrath and *NEVER* returned. Not even once. It's rumored that Veeshan provided the means to allow the dragons to put Kerafyrm to sleep, but there's no way to prove it. We've never heard her speak, she's never shown up before when the other gods gathered together for discussions of the future of Norrath or anything else.</p><p>I wouldn't put it past her to abandon the dragons if they're going to die off.</p>

[Enever]

<p>Then I was wrong, it happens.</p><p>Then another idea came up. You said that the Chelsith stone was the 3rd part of a 4 part calander yes?</p><p>Maybe this new one is possibly the 4th?</p><p>Edit: typos suck</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Well, you're not wrong in your question about her. We really don't know that much about Veeshan. We don't know if she would help her races or not. It's just that in the past, she's never shown any signs that she ever came back to check up on them.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>The only time I have really seen any vague mention of her doing anything if at all was when they removed Vulak Aerr I believe. He supposedly ascended to be by her side or something like that. Not sure if that was changed or anything.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>I may be reaching, but back in EQ1, the Ring of Scale was in opposition to Mayong Mistmoore.  If Mistmoore himself was a Ydal before becoming a vampire, is it possible that the emnity between Mayong and those dragons might actually be a racial war, going back to when there were more Ydal than just him?  In that case the Ankh of Ydal overlaying the draconic image could signify that war, or some event that caused their mutual hatred.  Or maybe the dominance of a Ydal over a dragon (I keep hoping there's going to be more to that vampire dragon Mayong's got than just a random raid target).</p>

[Methriln]

<p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p>

[Aneova]

<p><cite>Methriln wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p></blockquote><p>If you look back to when Vhalen first created Mayong and Lucan D'Lere (i'm sure i butchered Lucan's last name) Both were human and perfectly mortal, there was an event that occurred that i'm sure Cusa would be able to put more light on that drove both to seek Immortality via different routes.</p><p>Also I would also like to know if anyone thinks the Keeper of Secrets has anything usefull to say in Nek Forest. My last visit resulted in this message: "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all."</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Methriln wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p></blockquote><p>If you look back to when Vhalen first created Mayong and Lucan D'Lere (i'm sure i butchered Lucan's last name) Both were human and perfectly mortal, there was an event that occurred that i'm sure Cusa would be able to put more light on that drove both to seek Immortality via different routes.</p><p>Also I would also like to know if anyone thinks the Keeper of Secrets has anything usefull to say in Nek Forest. My last visit resulted in this message: "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all."</p></blockquote><p>Mayong and Lucan were Vhalen's characters in a Dungeons & Dragons campaign that inspired the creation of Everquest and Norrath. Those D&D campaign characters really don't have any lore relevance to how EQ and EQ2 turned out.</p><p>And the Keeper still hasn't been updated since the Fallen Dynasty was released. He's refering to Zebuxoruk.</p>

[RaphaNissi]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Methriln wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p></blockquote><p>If you look back to when Vhalen first created Mayong and Lucan D'Lere (i'm sure i butchered Lucan's last name) Both were human and perfectly mortal, there was an event that occurred that i'm sure Cusa would be able to put more light on that drove both to seek Immortality via different routes.</p><p>Also I would also like to know if anyone thinks the Keeper of Secrets has anything usefull to say in Nek Forest. My last visit resulted in this message: "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all."</p></blockquote><p>Mayong and Lucan were Vhalen's characters in a Dungeons & Dragons campaign that inspired the creation of Everquest and Norrath. Those D&D campaign characters really don't have any lore relevance to how EQ and EQ2 turned out.</p><p>And the Keeper still hasn't been updated since the Fallen Dynasty was released. He's refering to Zebuxoruk.</p></blockquote><p>*boggled*  No lore relevance to how eq and eq2 turned out?  Vhalen's even posted that some of his campaigns have made it into Norrath.  Oh and Mayong was Bill trost's character and Lucan was Vhalen's..and even Zazoo (doh, who made it into eq2's world and storyline) was played by someone else.</p><p>Oh and Aneova, you spelled D'Lere just right *wink*</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><cite>Methriln wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p></blockquote><p>Was he born straight out of the Ewer of Sul'Dae then?</p><p>Vampires are undead.  Anashti Sul brought undeath to Norrath with the Ewer.  For Mayong to have always been a vampire, either some other god created vampires from whole cloth after Anashti was banished (in which case why only one?), or the Ewer can spontaneously generate undead without requiring either a dead body treated with its waters or a live person drinking from it.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Methriln wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p></blockquote><p>Was he born straight out of the Ewer of Sul'Dae then?</p><p>Vampires are undead.  Anashti Sul brought undeath to Norrath with the Ewer.  For Mayong to have always been a vampire, either some other god created vampires from whole cloth after Anashti was banished (in which case why only one?), or the Ewer can spontaneously generate undead without requiring either a dead body treated with its waters or a live person drinking from it.</p></blockquote><p>It's doubtful that Mayong was created by the Ewer. He, and his castle on Faydwer, are older than anyone has ever recorded. That could mean that He's older than the Sul'Dae themselves.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Methriln wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure mayong was always a vampire</p></blockquote><p>Was he born straight out of the Ewer of Sul'Dae then?</p><p>Vampires are undead.  Anashti Sul brought undeath to Norrath with the Ewer.  For Mayong to have always been a vampire, either some other god created vampires from whole cloth after Anashti was banished (in which case why only one?), or the Ewer can spontaneously generate undead without requiring either a dead body treated with its waters or a live person drinking from it.</p></blockquote><p>It's doubtful that Mayong was created by the Ewer. He, and his castle on Faydwer, are older than anyone has ever recorded. That could mean that He's older than the Sul'Dae themselves.</p></blockquote><p>The Ewer also predates the Sul'Dal - one of the 1001 Tales of Maj'Dul you access during the Peacock Club line talks about the prophet of the secret city.  I don't remember the title, and it's not on the Antenaeum, but here's the relevant portion of the tale from my log:</p><p>"This city was born from the words of an ancient dal, a prophet of the chants of oblivion. How he came to know the shadow of nonexistent powers is unknown, but know he did. He became a prophet in the shadows concealing his pursuit to a faith unknown.</p><p>To claim the shadowed faith the prophet abandoned the powers of dal. With his path aimed toward oblivion he was promised life evermore. A true follower of the nonexistent would surely enter evermore, but he would not enter alone.</p><p>In whispers of the dark the prophet spoke of the forgotten and her promise of evermore. The silent church was formed under the very gaze of dal. Risking exile the silent church would meet and seek new disciples. But even this was not enough."</p><p>Anashti Sul is already banished by this time, already the Forgotten.</p><p>But that's sort of besides the point - I was pointing out that Mayong, being undead, would either have to have been something else beforehand or been created as an undead being.  The only god we know to have "created" undeath is Anashti Sul, and she was trying to give living beings eternal life.  So either her undead-devise was making undead without requiring a living/once living body, or Mayong was, in fact, something besides a Vampire at some point.</p><p>That's how I see it, anyway.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p>I believe your reading quest dialogue in the above Lodrelhai, somewhere in the living tombs parts of the Peacock questline iirc.</p><p>As for Mayong being a vampire, I had theories of him being from outerspace like Rodcet. But I couldnt say, Vhalen said in the ww lore channel some months ago that all the clues to Mayongs past are already in-game we just have to find them.</p>

[Katanalla]

<p>I got a question, with the chelsith stone with the text image a few pages ago. . .</p><p>Why is it written in wood elf language? (btw it says 'The Future of Everquest II'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Also crested mistmoore shield. . .</p><p><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/Katanallama/mistmoore-shield.jpg" /></p><p>dunno if anyone has made mention of it, but just more stuff of mistmoore showin that stuff</p><p>bottom of shield its the ring with 3 circles around the bat head thingy w/e</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>It's pretty well established that undead can be raised without the <span >Ewer of Sul'Dae. Necromancers do it all the time. Anashti may have first created the magic, but anyone can copy it with a little training.</span></p><p>Vampires are notably different from typical undead, primarily in the fact that they are both killed and simultaneously ressurected by the same magic, much in the same way that a Lich is made. Further, the spell which animates them has the ability to spread itself through blood contact much like a disease, which is even more unique among arcane magics. These facts make it unlikely that vampirism is derived from Anashti's magic. In fact, Anashti may have used the vampires as inspiration.</p><p>Since Mayong's origins are unknown, there are many possabilities for his creation. He could have been a god who was confined to mortal form as a punishment of some sort, cursed to live that way forever. Or he may have been created by an arcane alchemist, born fully formed as a chimera made from the blood of an elf, a bat, and a god. The first vampire being created that way is entirely possible.</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p><cite>Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I got a question, with the chelsith stone with the text image a few pages ago. . .</p><p>Why is it written in wood elf language? (btw it says 'The Future of Everquest II'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>That image was a teaser for EoF way back when.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's pretty well established that undead can be raised without the <span>Ewer of Sul'Dae. Necromancers do it all the time. Anashti may have first created the magic, but anyone can copy it with a little training.</span></p><p>Vampires are notably different from typical undead, primarily in the fact that they are both killed and simultaneously ressurected by the same magic, much in the same way that a Lich is made. Further, the spell which animates them has the ability to spread itself through blood contact much like a disease, which is even more unique among arcane magics. These facts make it unlikely that vampirism is derived from Anashti's magic. In fact, Anashti may have used the vampires as inspiration.</p><p>Since Mayong's origins are unknown, there are many possabilities for his creation. He could have been a god who was confined to mortal form as a punishment of some sort, cursed to live that way forever. Or he may have been created by an arcane alchemist, born fully formed as a chimera made from the blood of an elf, a bat, and a god. The first vampire being created that way is entirely possible.</p></blockquote><p>If Anashti used the vampires as inspiration, then she wouldn't have been introducing undeath to Norrath - she would have been copying what was already there.  And there's some implications that some of the vampires in Neriak may have been made by the Ewer.  That merchant who's name I can never remember, one of his proximity voice-overs talks about complications with reforming the Ewer of Sul'Dae, and how some citizens of Neriak may not be what they appear.</p><p>All of that beside the main point I've been making - all undead, including vampires and liches, require the transformation of a living or once-living being.  We have NO cases of something undead being created from anything but living creatures or their remains.  And to get reasonably intelligent ones, such as vampires and liches, those remains have to be really, really fresh - as you said, death and raising happening with the same magic.</p><p>If - and that's a very big if - Mayong was initially created as a vampire, with no prior living form, then the most likely scenario is that he's a creation of the one who created undeath in the first place - Anashti.  Hence my comment about coming from the Ewer.  But I honestly don't believe that was the case.  I believe he was previously some other race - an early form of elf, the last survivor of a race lost to time, but part of a larger community of created, mortal beings.  By some means - be it the Ewer, a spell, or an older vampire who is no longer around - he became what he is today.</p><p>As for the story text I quoted, it is a form of quest dialogue - like when you examine something needed for a quest, and it gives you a little text box with a brief description and some options to click.  Unlike NPC dialogue, your responses don't go to the chat/log, just what's in the box, so I don't know what the name of the story was that my character wrote next to the X.  Go check 1001 Tales of Maj'Dul, it's on the ground next to a chest in Kantus Mor'Tael's tent in Maj'Dul.  There's a couple tales you can always read, and other options that only show up when you're on the right quest for them.</p>

[Greyquill]

<p>How about this; towards the end of Anashti's deity quests she mentions that she no longer feels the presence of <insert name here because I've completey blanked> but instead feels one called Bertoxxulous. Is it possible that Mayong is an earthly avatar/the stripped down immortal remains of the previous god of disease? Vampirism being his specialty plague and the inspiration that sent Anashti on her quest to gift Norrathians with immortality. Mayong himself has stated that he was there when Veshaan deposited her brood upon Norrath. He has had aspirations of godhood from the beginning... if you we were a displaced diety what else would you spend your time doing? Is it possible then that Mayong/previous god of disease was the one and only deity to have been sucessfully put into check by Theer before his imprisonment in the Void?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>There was no previous God of Disease before Bertoxxulous came around. When Anashti was a god, there wasn't one for that element. That's why when she returned to Norrath, she is curious about Bertoxxulous.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>Haven't gotten that far in the diety line yet (is slacking, yus v_v ).</p><p>But given that Theer's full name and title is "Roehn Theer the Godslayer" I don't think Theer was simply putting the gods he smacked down in check...<em>  </em><span ><em></em></span></p>

[Meirril]

<p>Its possible that Mayong Mistmoor is not a vampire, but rather everything he is belonged to his race. It could be his race was created "immortal". Or it is possible that he learned magic to sustain his life by drinking the blood of others. After the rest of his race perrished in some unknown incident he continued to live on and plot. After undeath was introduced to the world, he researched and came up with a process to create new members of his race via magic. The elves treated so look physically like himself and share his ability to drain blood to sustain their "life". Unlike Mayong himself, they are undead and as such have several weaknesses he does not share. The few weaknesses Mayong has are greatly amplified in his progeny.</p><p>It could also explain his long hatred of dragons. His race could of been seen as a threat to dragon kind and eliminated. With him as the sole survivor he would work to bring their demise. Innoruk would be on his side, partially due to the hatred created, partially due to Mayong's great personal power, and partially to see the downfall of Veeshan's brood.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about this; towards the end of Anashti's deity quests she mentions that she no longer feels the presence of XXX but instead feels one called Bertoxxulous. Is it possible that Mayong is an earthly avatar/the stripped down immortal remains of the previous god of disease? Vampirism being his specialty plague and the inspiration that sent Anashti on her quest to gift Norrathians with immortality. Mayong himself has stated that he was there when Veshaan deposited her brood upon Norrath. He has had aspirations of godhood from the beginning... if you we were a displaced diety what else would you spend your time doing? Is it possible then that Mayong/previous god of disease was the one and only deity to have been sucessfully put into check by Theer before his imprisonment in the Void?</p></blockquote><p>Xul`Varien, he apparently held the mantle of disease before BertoxXulous. Which is why Anashti (when you return her to Norrath) starts looking for his presence and instead finds that disease is now BertoxXulous.</p><p>Weather Xul`Varien was a true god or not isnt really clear by Anashti's dialogue but your made to think he was. Which is close enough for me.</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>Is it actually stated anywhere that Tunare made her elves from scratch?</p><p>We tend to assume that vampires are elves that have been turned...but what if elves were originally created by warping vampires, in much the same way that dark elves and evil pixies were later created? Perhaps Vampires were once the master-race of Norrath. Then, with Tunare's curse transforming them one by one, driven to the brink of extinction, Mayong was forced to try something desperate...in an attempt to escape the curse, he transformed himself into an undead, and began researching a way to take back his species from Tunare's brood...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is it actually stated anywhere that Tunare made her elves from scratch?</p><p>We tend to assume that vampires are elves that have been turned...but what if elves were originally created by warping vampires, in much the same way that dark elves and evil pixies were later created? Perhaps Vampires were once the master-race of Norrath. Then, with Tunare's curse transforming them one by one, driven to the brink of extinction, Mayong was forced to try something desperate...in an attempt to escape the curse, he transformed himself into an undead, and began researching a way to take back his species from Tunare's brood...</p></blockquote><p>She really did create them by scratch, though it's never mentioned how she created them. Then again, it's not explained how most of the gods created their races. Only Brell with his magic clay of Cosgrove, and Innoruuk by twisting the Elven king and queen.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is it actually stated anywhere that Tunare made her elves from scratch?</p><p>We tend to assume that vampires are elves that have been turned...but what if elves were originally created by warping vampires, in much the same way that dark elves and evil pixies were later created? Perhaps Vampires were once the master-race of Norrath. Then, with Tunare's curse transforming them one by one, driven to the brink of extinction, Mayong was forced to try something desperate...in an attempt to escape the curse, he transformed himself into an undead, and began researching a way to take back his species from Tunare's brood...</p></blockquote><p>She really did create them by scratch, though it's never mentioned how she created them. Then again, it's not explained how most of the gods created their races. Only Brell with his magic clay of Cosgrove, and Innoruuk by twisting the Elven king and queen.</p></blockquote><p>Aye, twisting. Which is why alot of people think he twisted another race to create the Ydal, seeing as the Ewer wont create races it turns them into Everliving (undead) beings. I once theorized that maybe the elves are a new version of the Xulous race, maybe Tunare came and seen that they were wiped out and took pity on any survivors turning them into her elves... but again thats stretching it...... alot.. heh.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There was no previous God of Disease before Bertoxxulous came around. When Anashti was a god, there wasn't one for that element. That's why when she returned to Norrath, she is curious about Bertoxxulous.</p></blockquote><p>She mentions her curiosity about Bertoxxulous because he has apparently replaced "Xul'Varien". This implies there was a god of disease prior to Bertoxxulous manifesting himself.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I am getting an unsettling feeling that as new expansions are created, and as lore stories are created for them, and then ret-conned into existing lore, that there needs to be more attention to keeping the lore consistant to that which has proceeded it.  It seems that the volume of lore is becoming more and more 'expansion specific,' and less and less consistant with previous lore.</p><p>It also may be the case that the volume of lore is simply too much now, and beyond the capability of a single individual to absorb.  Particularly if the lore has had many different authors.</p><p>It's getting tangled and twisted upon itself, and that is just within EQ2.  The same process is happening in EQ Live.  It may reach a point in the not too distant future, that the mass of lore becomes fragmented confused, and contradictory to the point of breaking down completely.</p><p>All the more reason for a lore specific designer for each game and a need for having frequent communication between the lorists of each game.</p><p>If the lore becomes chaotic to the point of unknowable, we lose a huge part of what makes this a more immersive experience than other MMOs.</p><p>2cp.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>Theer is the godslayer...but we know that the gods are 'mantles' you can replace a diety with someone else. maybe that's how Theer was supposed to keep real balance. One of the gods gets uppity, they get warned to get back in line. if they refuse, Theer kills that one and lets someone else ascend to thier position.</p><p>or maybe it was the gods...or in particular this previous disease god...that decided to test Theer's resolve and got his rear handed to him on a silver platter, and was replaced by Bert that got the other gods to pool together to throw him into the void. something like:</p><p>Pantheona members: why should we listen to you Theer? you're an avatar, not a god.</p><p>Theer: ....</p><p>Xul'Varien: I'll do as I please!</p><p>Rallos: that's right!</p><p>Cazic: I agree!</p><p>Fennin: He's no match for us..no mere avatar can defeat one of us.</p><p>Theer: I wouldn't advise testing me.</p><p>Xul'Varien has challenged Theer to a duel to the death!</p><p>Theer: I warned you.</p><p>Theer slashes Xul'Varien with Exonus for 599999999 points of slashing damage!</p><p>Exonus procs Heaven's Light, stripping the god of disease of all his power!</p><p>Theer slashes Xul'Varien with Aeteok for 599999999 points of slashing damage!</p><p>Aeteok procs Hell's Inferno, searing both flesh and essence!</p><p>Theer has slain Xul'varien!</p><p>Pantheon: [Removed for Content]! Get him!</p>

[Greyquill]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am getting an unsettling feeling that as new expansions are created, and as lore stories are created for them, and then ret-conned into existing lore, that there needs to be more attention to keeping the lore consistant to that which has proceeded it.  It seems that the volume of lore is becoming more and more 'expansion specific,' and less and less consistant with previous lore.</p><p>It also may be the case that the volume of lore is simply too much now, and beyond the capability of a single individual to absorb.  Particularly if the lore has had many different authors.</p><p>It's getting tangled and twisted upon itself, and that is just within EQ2.  The same process is happening in EQ Live.  It may reach a point in the not too distant future, that the mass of lore becomes fragmented confused, and contradictory to the point of breaking down completely.</p><p>All the more reason for a lore specific designer for each game and a need for having frequent communication between the lorists of each game.</p><p>If the lore becomes chaotic to the point of unknowable, we lose a huge part of what makes this a more immersive experience than other MMOs.</p><p>2cp.</p></blockquote><p>Everything up through TSO is the progression of Vhalen's original lore. At least that's what I've been told. Any lore introduced starting at LU52 - whenever will be the collabroative effort of the new devs. So, given that... the lore we've been discussing, minus possibly the Order of Rime and the prospect of the Shard of Love, should be pretty consistent.</p><p>And thanks to the people who remembered the name of the previous deity of disease, Xul'Varien. And yes Cusa, it's pretty much blantantly stated there was a previous Lord of Prestilence/God of Disease.</p><p><em>Avatar of the Forgotten says: Hmm... I do not feel the presence of Xul'Varien, but instead I sense this new being -- Bertoxxulous, if I have heard correctly, who is evidently the new Lord of Prestilence. I will be watching that one carefully. However, I have a more pressing matter at hand, which is the one who replaced me, Rodcet Nife.</em></p><p>Who or what was Xul'Varien and why are he and Anashti so conspicuously absent from the creation story of Norrath when they'd have to have been there in some form?</p><p>If the banishments of Anashti and Theer to the Void predate Veshaan's claiming of Norrath, remember Anashti was already a long forgotten goddess before the Sul'dae elves "rediscovered" the Ewer of Life, then to who's pantheon did she belong? Or any of Norrath's deities for that matter?</p><p>If the creation story is to be believed, why does Mayong state he was present to witness Veshaan depositing the first brood on Norrath? Norrath is clearly stated to be "undiscovered" and "uninhabited". For that matter, how was this knowledge passed down?</p><p>I simply propose that Mayong is some incarnation of Xul'Varien. Yes, Theer is called "Godslayer", but we've seen how eneffective "killing" a god(dess) can be... look at Anashti. Besides, wouldn't outright destruction of a god(dess) upset the balance of creation far more drastically than say simply deposing them? It would explain Mayong's interest in the swords of Theer... he would have intimate knowledge of them. It would also explain how he was able to be present when Veshaan created the Cobalt Scar and have Norrath still be void of life. Something in my gut tells me Mayong is the lynchpin of all the crazy that has ever befallen Norrath. I don't buy the "passive near omnicient observer biding his time" explanation. He simply knows waaaaaaay too much and is present at every major event.</p><p>**dited to include quest dialogue from the Avatar of the Forgotten**</p>

[Cucuy]

<p><cite>Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I got a question, with the chelsith stone with the text image a few pages ago. . .</p><p>Why is it written in wood elf language? (btw it says 'The Future of Everquest II'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also crested mistmoore shield. . .</p><p><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/Katanallama/mistmoore-shield.jpg" /></p><p>dunno if anyone has made mention of it, but just more stuff of mistmoore showin that stuff</p><p>bottom of shield its the ring with 3 circles around the bat head thingy w/e</p></blockquote><p>Going waaaaayyyy out on a limb here, but with the similarity between the shield and the stone, etc., could it even be a remote posibility that Mayong is Veshaan?  Can't dragons change their form or something?</p><p>Again, waaaaayyyy out there.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Cucuy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I got a question, with the chelsith stone with the text image a few pages ago. . .</p><p>Why is it written in wood elf language? (btw it says 'The Future of Everquest II'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also crested mistmoore shield. . .</p><p><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/Katanallama/mistmoore-shield.jpg" /></p><p>dunno if anyone has made mention of it, but just more stuff of mistmoore showin that stuff</p><p>bottom of shield its the ring with 3 circles around the bat head thingy w/e</p></blockquote><p>Going waaaaayyyy out on a limb here, but with the similarity between the shield and the stone, etc., could it even be a remote posibility that Mayong is Veshaan?  Can't dragons change their form or something?</p><p>Again, waaaaayyyy out there.</p></blockquote><p>I think that's a bit too far out in left field. Mistmoore definately has a role and a lot more behind him, but I don't think being Veeshan based on that is it =)</p>

[Cucuy]

<p><cite>Lord_Ebon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think that's a bit too far out in left field. Mistmoore definately has a role and a lot more behind him, but I don't think being Veeshan based on that is it =)</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, a bit far might be an understatement, but figured I'd thow it out there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Lord_Ebon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cucuy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I got a question, with the chelsith stone with the text image a few pages ago. . .</p><p>Why is it written in wood elf language? (btw it says 'The Future of Everquest II'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also crested mistmoore shield. . .</p><p><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/Katanallama/mistmoore-shield.jpg" /></p><p>dunno if anyone has made mention of it, but just more stuff of mistmoore showin that stuff</p><p>bottom of shield its the ring with 3 circles around the bat head thingy w/e</p></blockquote><p>Going waaaaayyyy out on a limb here, but with the similarity between the shield and the stone, etc., could it even be a remote posibility that Mayong is Veshaan?  Can't dragons change their form or something?</p><p>Again, waaaaayyyy out there.</p></blockquote><p>I think that's a bit too far out in left field. Mistmoore definately has a role and a lot more behind him, but I don't think being Veeshan based on that is it =)</p></blockquote><p>Yea, ever since eqlive Mayong has clearly shown to have a great dislike of dragonkind and has been enemies with them for a very, very long time. I honestly hope we someday get to trounce him for good, I never liked him or the lore attention he received in eqlive back when he was gm controlled...let alone his involvement in eq2 which will almost certainly prove that his motives are as usual less than altruistic.</p><p>On another note, I was always disappointed that there was not much interaction with the dragons in eq2 aside from Nagafen, even in eqlive you could raise your faction enough with the Ring of Scale to get quests from them...in eq2 though they are all apparently fodder including Trakanon who's rise to leadership/shedding of undeath in RoK isnt fleshed out in the least...let alone any motives he may have had.</p><p>For all we know, Trakanon could have been trying to fight the void invasion/end of days just as we are...after all I doubt that Queen Elizerain would have been so willingl to trust him if he did not have some redeeming qualities but such is never explored unfortunately.</p><p>Dragonkind was after all likely one of the first to spout the classic "You will not ruin our lands" thing...though in their own way of course...and tend to see themselves as the first and rightful race to lay claim to Norrath...and we of the player races as interlopers/despoilers of the "great gift from their mother".</p>

[RaphaNissi]

<p>As far as consistency with the deities and the mantles they hold and all of that, the idea is one that Vhalen eluded to us way back with EoF when the avatars made their appearances in Norrath.   So this idea of a god of disease before Bert was very much in place when Vhalen was.</p><p>As far as overall consistency..what good story writer writes one chapter at a time without foresight of the final chapter?  We've all heard many tales from the "Dusty Old Tome" of things that happened several expansions later.  Heck, we've heard several tales about Odus that we may just get to see in game very soon.  I've heard rumors that Cronyn and other may just like that Tome as much as some of us.  Please don't count out the majority of the storyline becoming inconsistant with the change of writers.  Will everything be as consistant as it could be?.. probably not but let's give these new storylines a chance.</p><p>Just my opinion. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>You know... I've never heard of this "Xul'Vulen" guy before, but entertaining the idea that whoever this guy was, may have been the God of Disease before Bertoxxulous, leads me to think of how many other gods have been replaced.</p><p>What if... Norrath has already met it's doom? What if the planet actually existed before Veeshan made it livable? What if that planet had it's own gods and dieties, and the people on it met their end to some powerful force.</p><p>What if someone decided to start over and hit the galactic reset button?</p>

[Greyquill]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know... I've never heard of this "Xul'Vulen" guy before, but entertaining the idea that whoever this guy was, may have been the God of Disease before Bertoxxulous, leads me to think of how many other gods have been replaced.</p><p>What if... Norrath has already met it's doom? What if the planet actually existed before Veeshan made it livable? What if that planet had it's own gods and dieties, and the people on it met their end to some powerful force.</p><p>What if someone decided to start over and hit the galactic reset button?</p></blockquote><p>That's a horribly sublime thought. Prime, Berrox,... Norrath. All the same planet, "galacticly reset" in increasingly catastrophic ways. The survivors ripped from the plane and depositied into the void. Anashti and Xul'Varien were present in other creation stories, just not ours. Our existance beginning with Veshaan reclaiming the world from a previous gobal distaster... Mayong the sole survivor of a blasted world... it makes a creepy kind of sense.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know... I've never heard of this "Xul'Vulen" guy before, but entertaining the idea that whoever this guy was, may have been the God of Disease before Bertoxxulous, leads me to think of how many other gods have been replaced.</p><p>What if... Norrath has already met it's doom? What if the planet actually existed before Veeshan made it livable? What if that planet had it's own gods and dieties, and the people on it met their end to some powerful force.</p><p>What if someone decided to start over and hit the galactic reset button?</p></blockquote><p>Well.. its thinking out side the box at least. Which is a bit refreshing rather then re-hashing "adventurers go through time" to create new areas of content and lore. Time travel should be used sparingly imo.</p><p>However the thought of our current pantheon being replacements isnt beyond possible, Rodcet Nife replaced Anashti, as well as apparently Bert over Xul. When we often talk of history we say Norraths history, well what of other planes/places that the gods brought their influence to.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know... I've never heard of this "Xul'Vulen" guy before, but entertaining the idea that whoever this guy was, may have been the God of Disease before Bertoxxulous, leads me to think of how many other gods have been replaced.</p><p>What if... Norrath has already met it's doom? What if the planet actually existed before Veeshan made it livable? What if that planet had it's own gods and dieties, and the people on it met their end to some powerful force.</p><p>What if someone decided to start over and hit the galactic reset button?</p></blockquote><p>I've considered for a while now that Mayong, in claiming to have seen the First Brood deposited, may actually be a survivor of a civilization that predates Veeshan's claim - that perhaps some planet-wide cataclysm made the whole place uninhabitable, but Mayong was already undead by that point and so basically wandered alone/with those few who were like him on the wasted planet until Veeshan revitalized it.</p><p>Some other evidence to that is how Mayong addresses Teir'Dal after killing Trakanon - something about how they remind him of himself, and he hopes for Norrath's sake they do not follow the same path he did.  Another thing I can't recall where I read, but I'd swear there's a mention somewhere of all this happening <em>again</em>.  Not just the Void invasion (which we know happened before) but Age's End.  Lastly, in the preamble to the <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?month=032009&id=2094" target="_blank">Elements of Corruption lore</a>, it talks about how the people were afraid of the gods while they were marching around doing as they pleased - I don't recall any races recorded as being afraid of their gods, except perhaps the followers of Cazic or if said follower had royaly [Removed for Content]'d something.</p><p>So it could well be that the gods ended up breaking their toy world the first time around because they weren't taking good care of it.  Now they are a little wiser, and being a little more careful.  Or most of them, anyway - Rallos and Solusek seemed pretty keen on wiping the mortals out entirely in that meeting of the Gods.  Even Brell thought selective pruniing of those who violated the god-planes would be a good idea (not sure if he meant those people specifically or those races overall).  And Cazic suggests that the mortals be controlled through fear - perhaps not just because it's his influence, but because they used it before to good effect?</p>

[Wrapye]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lastly, in the preamble to the <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?month=032009&id=2094" target="_blank">Elements of Corruption lore</a>, it talks about how the people were afraid of the gods while they were marching around doing as they pleased - I don't recall any races recorded as being afraid of their gods, except perhaps the followers of Cazic or if said follower had royaly [Removed for Content]'d something.</p></blockquote><p>Sounds like Forgotten Realm's 'Time of Troubles' when their pantheon got banished to the mortal realm by the equivalent of The Nameless.  Having your gods walk the earth is not always a good thing, even if you worship the goddess of love.</p>

[Gala]

<p>I think the red and blue images ( <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyRli9g8ZH4" target="_blank">youtube</a> ).The red one seems to follow the time line of EQ1.The outer icons are the the 4 horsemen (gods) try to destroy Norrath.The center icon is the leading actor of all events. (The prismatic dragon, Sleeper, etc) Or its for the brood mother and her dragon kind. As there lots and lots of dragons in EQ1.The 3 other inner symbols are the leading actors / factions in helping to prevent the destruction of Norrath.(<a href="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/Apolline/symbol_1.jpg" target="_blank">eq1 image</a>) from <a href="../../../../../eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=50278" target="_blank">eq1 forum</a>(<a href="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/114/calendar1.jpg">Better one</a>) from <a href="../../../../user/profile.m?user_id=5116">Coniaric</a> < Red oneThe blue one seems our time line with kindom of sky (KoS) and the void (TSO).<a href="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4561/calendar2b.jpg">Blue</a> from <a href="../../../../user/profile.m?user_id=5116">Coniaric</a>Next would be the something with the 3^rd symbol (Combine Empire) and 4^th The Ratonga symbol. Expect an expansion (Sentinal's Fate) To finish the void and the next will introduce the storyline of the 3^rd symbol.And the middle one is the Freethinkers or Mr. "not-killing-random-adventurer" vampire. As freethinkers and vamps are all over eq2.Then the 2 other symbols. I am not 100% sure about those 2.But then there is the image of:<a href="http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/eq2/2718216.jpg">(first stone)</a> from <a href="../../../../user/profile.m?user_id=118754">Lodrelhai</a><a href="http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee308/Aneova/ChelsithStone.jpg">ChelsithStone</a> < better lower icon.This seems to show the before eq1 storyline. With the dragon-kind being rulers of Norrath and the introduction of the first gods and there races. And the 4 horsemen again doing there stuff.Somewhere in this thread there is also something that the blue and red thingy are just one stone of 4. I think the one from Chelsith stone is the first stone. Made by the Shissar. The red one is the 2^nd. The blue one the 3^rd. And an unknown 4^th probably for EQ3.Also there was something about the glowing stars on the symbols. I think this is a bug. Or it holds and encoded message. And its also found on the 2^nd lift in Kurns tower.</p> <p>I could have gotten deeper in the details but I made my point. And the end of the shissar I think is on stone nr 1 not the red symbol's stone thingy.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know... I've never heard of this "Xul'Vulen" guy before, but entertaining the idea that whoever this guy was, may have been the God of Disease before Bertoxxulous, leads me to think of how many other gods have been replaced.</p><p>What if... Norrath has already met it's doom? What if the planet actually existed before Veeshan made it livable? What if that planet had it's own gods and dieties, and the people on it met their end to some powerful force.</p><p>What if someone decided to start over and hit the galactic reset button?</p></blockquote><p>I've considered for a while now that Mayong, in claiming to have seen the First Brood deposited, may actually be a survivor of a civilization that predates Veeshan's claim - that perhaps some planet-wide cataclysm made the whole place uninhabitable, but Mayong was already undead by that point and so basically wandered alone/with those few who were like him on the wasted planet until Veeshan revitalized it.</p><p>Some other evidence to that is how Mayong addresses Teir'Dal after killing Trakanon - something about how they remind him of himself, and he hopes for Norrath's sake they do not follow the same path he did. <span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff6600;"><strong> Another thing I can't recall where I read, but I'd swear there's a mention somewhere of all this happening <em>again</em>. </strong></span> Not just the Void invasion (which we know happened before) but Age's End.  Lastly, in the preamble to the <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?month=032009&id=2094" target="_blank">Elements of Corruption lore</a>, it talks about how the people were afraid of the gods while they were marching around doing as they pleased - I don't recall any races recorded as being afraid of their gods, except perhaps the followers of Cazic or if said follower had royaly [Removed for Content]'d something.</p><p>So it could well be that the gods ended up breaking their toy world the first time around because they weren't taking good care of it.  Now they are a little wiser, and being a little more careful.  Or most of them, anyway - Rallos and Solusek seemed pretty keen on wiping the mortals out entirely in that meeting of the Gods.  Even Brell thought selective pruniing of those who violated the god-planes would be a good idea (not sure if he meant those people specifically or those races overall).  And Cazic suggests that the mortals be controlled through fear - perhaps not just because it's his influence, but because they used it before to good effect?</p></blockquote><p>It's Mayong as well, iirc its in the quest dialogue when he makes the deal with you. That a "Forgotten God" will soon return to Norrath to bring Ages End, and he says he doesnt wish to see an Ages End again, or something to that effect.</p><p>This was a while ago during ROK so i'll have to go back and see if i still have the logs.</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>The more that symbol comes up the more I find it to be irritating.</p><p>I'm referring to the "Dark Elf" eq1 symbol or the "Veeshan" symbol.... or whatever it is that we think it is in the middle of all these stones, and glyphs. I just looted some "Mistmoore Symbol of the Manor" from Mistmyr Manor today, and it has that for the icon. So bleh on the whole thing.</p><p>I keep seeing it more and more and frankly its becoming a thorn in my foot. How long has it been since Cusa found the Book of Sunder? Can we not get another bone?  Have we no other information? Real, true, hard information? Because all this speculation isn't really healthy anymore.  =</p><p>edit: Adding my own speculation because nothing else at this point makes a reasonable amount of sense. What if Veeshan is walking Norrath since she found the planet?. What if, she is Mayong Mistmoore in humanoid form.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Brailyn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I keep seeing it more and more and frankly its becoming a thorn in my foot. How long has it been since Cusa found the Book of Sunder? Can we not get another bone?  Have we no other information? Real, true, hard information? Because all this speculation isn't really healthy anymore.  =</p></blockquote><p>I don't know anymore either. I can only go as far as information is provided. The existence of the second "calendar" is important. But to what extent? I don't know. Too bad there isn't a book lying open on the floor by the display.</p><p>What I do know with assurance is: The runes are from the Planes. They predict in part the eventual fate of Norrath. They don't just represent a god or a whole bunch of them. Each rune is also a power by itself. The point is ... there are more than one meaning and/or use to any of them - individually or as the whole.</p><p>A point: The rune the Erudites appeared to take a liking to ... may be the rune that they studied and used that basically resulted in their racial transformation and a heightened affinity to magic.</p><p>See ... I did not take into account of a "horseman" deity of the "lore" (that was debunked as a mix of fan fiction & beta lore that was scrapped before it was released). Beside, other reason for the debunking, the Rune of Sunder has nothing to do with any of the deities linked to it. Which was Cazic-Thule, I think, per the "beta lore". Most likely one is Solusek Ro due to the Dreoslik Gem that was brought up to the moon before the termination of teleportation ... and that's not even proved as we cannot travel to Luclin nor find out how it came to its fate at this time.</p><p>Don't try to limit to the idea of <span style="text-decoration: underline;">one</span> meaning or <span style="text-decoration: underline;">one</span> interpretation. What may works in EQ1 (or fan fiction) ... may not works here in EQ2.</p>

[Gala]

<p>The first stone that is about the arival of the first races. (Where "<span>Veeshan</span>" aka "Broodmother" is bolged out) the 3 symbols and the one at the bottom seem to be on most druid rings of everquest 2. ("Seedling", "Thunder", "Waves", "Tree").</p><p>These symbols are also found in "icon_is88.dds" in the "image/icons" folder. The 2 other symbols are "hand with eye" and "cloud"</p><p>I think these 6 icons represent the first non dragon races on eqII. The "hand with eye" would represent the <em>Brell Serllis</em> races or his dwarfes or the "hand with eye" could represent "Bristlebane". The waves are Prexus and his brood. The "Thunder" could represent "a broken tree" which could represent the dark elfs of innoruuk. The "seedling" and "tree" are the elf races of tunare. (Wood and High elf).</p><p>Does this mean the druid rings have a deeper meaning or are they just a reuse of the symbols.</p><p><Sorry, I went a bit off topic></p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Mayong the sole survivor of a blasted world... it makes a creepy kind of sense.</p></blockquote><p>heh the book you get about mayong during the SoD quest line basicly states exactly that. and as evil as he apparently is. i dont think he wants to see it happen to norath agen while he still lives.</p>

[TaleraRis]

<p>I think people who consider the middle figure might be Mayong could be on to something. Any real art we've had in relation to Mayong's apperance gives him some really really pointy and large ears. That may not be a dragon, but a stylized version of his head. It's further supported by the earlier comment that the new middle symbol is the symbol that was burned into his face, which is eerily similar to what's happening when the two symbols are combined.</p><p>Here's a left field comment. Could Mayong be the Nameless?</p><p>And I would also consider that the candles symbol might not be Brell. Solusek Ro has flames around his head in a very similar manner. If the other symbols were considered as some sort of elemental link, you would have water, fire, earth and someone pointed out one of the new symbols could be related to air.</p><p>Or if we did assume it was Brell, the waves look remarkably similar to Quellious' symbol, and if 9 is druid associated, Karana is a god who favored rangers and druids. These three gods, while they might occasionally choose to help a given side, always had the feeling for me back in EQ1 of being much more neutral than the rest of the pantheon.</p><p>The other center possibility is Inny. I think the reason a lot of old EQ1 folks were so surprised at the art that was believed to be Inny when it first came out was because were so used to the devil-like version with the huge ears, not a troll looking being.</p><p>Inny cheesed Tunare off warping her elves. Could the other symbols match other gods Inny has cheesed off in some way?</p><p>Another left field comment. Could Mayong be Inny? It's been a long time, but doesn't the Maestro in Hate look like the common pointy-eared image of Mayong?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Gwyneth@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Here's a left field comment. Could Mayong be the Nameless?</strong></p></blockquote><p>That is a rather interesting thing to suppose, when you complete the Fate of Norrath and run into the dang guy again he is seen with both the Soulfire Gladius and Claymore Cutlass holstered. It isnt likely though, but the symbolism in him miraculously wielding both blades could not be a simple goof up.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>i really dought he could be the nameless. becaus then he would have a name now.</p><p>and kidding aside the nameless was the creating force of the entire existance. if he really was the nameless then he wouldent be haveing so many issues.</p><p>he really does seem like the last remnent of a time before the current norrath, and working to prevent the same fate from happaning agen, dispite how cold and heartless he acts.</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's pretty well established that undead can be raised without the <span>Ewer of Sul'Dae. Necromancers do it all the time. Anashti may have first created the magic, but anyone can copy it with a little training.</span></p><p>Vampires are notably different from typical undead, primarily in the fact that they are both killed and simultaneously ressurected by the same magic, much in the same way that a Lich is made. Further, the spell which animates them has the ability to spread itself through blood contact much like a disease, which is even more unique among arcane magics. These facts make it unlikely that vampirism is derived from Anashti's magic. In fact, Anashti may have used the vampires as inspiration.</p><p>Since Mayong's origins are unknown, there are many possabilities for his creation. He could have been a god who was confined to mortal form as a punishment of some sort, cursed to live that way forever. Or he may have been created by an arcane alchemist, born fully formed as a chimera made from the blood of an elf, a bat, and a god. The first vampire being created that way is entirely possible.</p></blockquote><p>If Anashti used the vampires as inspiration, then she wouldn't have been introducing undeath to Norrath - she would have been copying what was already there.  And there's some implications that some of the vampires in Neriak may have been made by the Ewer.  That merchant who's name I can never remember, one of his proximity voice-overs talks about complications with reforming the Ewer of Sul'Dae, and how some citizens of Neriak may not be what they appear.</p><p>All of that beside the main point I've been making - all undead, including vampires and liches, require the transformation of a living or once-living being.  We have NO cases of something undead being created from anything but living creatures or their remains.  And to get reasonably intelligent ones, such as vampires and liches, those remains have to be really, really fresh - as you said, death and raising happening with the same magic.</p><p>If - and that's a very big if - Mayong was initially created as a vampire, with no prior living form, then the most likely scenario is that he's a creation of the one who created undeath in the first place - Anashti.  Hence my comment about coming from the Ewer.  But I honestly don't believe that was the case.  I believe he was previously some other race - an early form of elf, the last survivor of a race lost to time, but part of a larger community of created, mortal beings.  By some means - be it the Ewer, a spell, or an older vampire who is no longer around - he became what he is today.</p><p>As for the story text I quoted, it is a form of quest dialogue - like when you examine something needed for a quest, and it gives you a little text box with a brief description and some options to click.  Unlike NPC dialogue, your responses don't go to the chat/log, just what's in the box, so I don't know what the name of the story was that my character wrote next to the X.  Go check 1001 Tales of Maj'Dul, it's on the ground next to a chest in Kantus Mor'Tael's tent in Maj'Dul.  There's a couple tales you can always read, and other options that only show up when you're on the right quest for them.</p></blockquote><p>and when you're a DE and you talk about mayong about the chelsith stone, he says he was once like us ... so ... was he a tier dal or evil and powerhungry ... since he's still evil and powerhungry ...</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p>I just wanted to address something I see being repeated in this thread...and it has to do with Mayong Mistmoore being "undead".</p><p>He's not.</p><p>He IS a Vampire.</p><p>He IS immortal.</p><p>But at no point has he died (that we know of) and been raised (that we know of).</p><p>There seems to be some confusing of traditional/RL Vampire lore, with Norrathian Vampire lore. In RL lore, Vampires are undead beings, but in Norrath, they may not be. ESPECIALLY Mayong Mistmoore. He is different then other vampires in Norrath, his "children" (vampires he created) may be "undead", but he certainly is not. Everything points to him being a member of a race that is no longer around, of which he very well may be the last. No, Mayong Mistmoore is very much alive methinks.</p><p>As for him being the previous god of Disease, that doesn't seem to fit either. Mayong doesn't seem too interested in spreading diseases,pestilence, or plagues, he really doesn't even seem that interested in spreading Vampirism (which, I suppose could be comparable to, or some could consider it to be a sort of disease, but imo it doesn't really fit). I mean, he does create other Vampires, but he doesn't seem to really have ambitions to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everyone</span> a Vampire. Also, just look at Bert, his body is a rotting, pestilience ridden, vessel of disease, as is his plane. Compare that to Mayong, who is very much a dapper, well groomed individual and his many residences are always very neat, clean, and tidy. Anything is possible, but if Mayong was indeed a fallen god, I would think he have been the god of Magic, or the god of Cunning or some such, maybe even Hate, but not Disease.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wanted to address something I see being repeated in this thread...and it has to do with Mayong Mistmoore being "undead".</p><p>He's not.</p><p>He IS a Vampire.</p><p>He IS immortal.</p><p>But at no point has he died (that we know of) and been raised (that we know of).</p><p>There seems to be some confusing of traditional/RL Vampire lore, with Norrathian Vampire lore. In RL lore, Vampires are undead beings, but in Norrath, they may not be. ESPECIALLY Mayong Mistmoore. He is different then other vampires in Norrath, his "children" (vampires he created) may be "undead", but he certainly is not. Everything points to him being a member of a race that is no longer around, of which he very well may be the last. No, Mayong Mistmoore is very much alive methinks.</p><p>As for him being the previous god of Disease, that doesn't seem to fit either. Mayong doesn't seem too interested in spreading diseases,pestilence, or plagues, he really doesn't even seem that interested in spreading Vampirism (which, I suppose could be comparable to, or some could consider it to be a sort of disease, but imo it doesn't really fit). I mean, he does create other Vampires, but he doesn't seem to really have ambitions to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everyone</span> a Vampire. Also, just look at Bert, his body is a rotting, pestilience ridden, vessel of disease, as is his plane. Compare that to Mayong, who is very much a dapper, well groomed individual and his many residences are always very neat, clean, and tidy. Anything is possible, but if Mayong was indeed a fallen god, I would think he have been the god of Magic, or the god of Cunning or some such, maybe even Hate, but not Disease.</p></blockquote><p>To add to this, Mayong ascended to Godhood in the last 500 years. He didn't like it, so he chose to return to his immortal life as a vampire on Norrath.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wanted to address something I see being repeated in this thread...and it has to do with Mayong Mistmoore being "undead".</p><p>He's not.</p><p>He IS a Vampire.</p><p>He IS immortal.</p><p>But at no point has he died (that we know of) and been raised (that we know of).</p><p>There seems to be some confusing of traditional/RL Vampire lore, with Norrathian Vampire lore. In RL lore, Vampires are undead beings, but in Norrath, they may not be. ESPECIALLY Mayong Mistmoore. He is different then other vampires in Norrath, his "children" (vampires he created) may be "undead", but he certainly is not. Everything points to him being a member of a race that is no longer around, of which he very well may be the last. No, Mayong Mistmoore is very much alive methinks.</p><p>As for him being the previous god of Disease, that doesn't seem to fit either. Mayong doesn't seem too interested in spreading diseases,pestilence, or plagues, he really doesn't even seem that interested in spreading Vampirism (which, I suppose could be comparable to, or some could consider it to be a sort of disease, but imo it doesn't really fit). I mean, he does create other Vampires, but he doesn't seem to really have ambitions to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everyone</span> a Vampire. Also, just look at Bert, his body is a rotting, pestilience ridden, vessel of disease, as is his plane. Compare that to Mayong, who is very much a dapper, well groomed individual and his many residences are always very neat, clean, and tidy. Anything is possible, but if Mayong was indeed a fallen god, I would think he have been the god of Magic, or the god of Cunning or some such, maybe even Hate, but not Disease.</p></blockquote><p>To add to this, Mayong ascended to Godhood in the last 500 years. He didn't like it, so he chose to return to his immortal life as a vampire on Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>I thought the "Mayong as a god" bit was only in EQ1, after the timeline split?</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p><cite>Lord_Ebon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wanted to address something I see being repeated in this thread...and it has to do with Mayong Mistmoore being "undead".</p><p>He's not.</p><p>He IS a Vampire.</p><p>He IS immortal.</p><p>But at no point has he died (that we know of) and been raised (that we know of).</p><p>There seems to be some confusing of traditional/RL Vampire lore, with Norrathian Vampire lore. In RL lore, Vampires are undead beings, but in Norrath, they may not be. ESPECIALLY Mayong Mistmoore. He is different then other vampires in Norrath, his "children" (vampires he created) may be "undead", but he certainly is not. Everything points to him being a member of a race that is no longer around, of which he very well may be the last. No, Mayong Mistmoore is very much alive methinks.</p><p>As for him being the previous god of Disease, that doesn't seem to fit either. Mayong doesn't seem too interested in spreading diseases,pestilence, or plagues, he really doesn't even seem that interested in spreading Vampirism (which, I suppose could be comparable to, or some could consider it to be a sort of disease, but imo it doesn't really fit). I mean, he does create other Vampires, but he doesn't seem to really have ambitions to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everyone</span> a Vampire. Also, just look at Bert, his body is a rotting, pestilience ridden, vessel of disease, as is his plane. Compare that to Mayong, who is very much a dapper, well groomed individual and his many residences are always very neat, clean, and tidy. Anything is possible, but if Mayong was indeed a fallen god, I would think he have been the god of Magic, or the god of Cunning or some such, maybe even Hate, but not Disease.</p></blockquote><p>To add to this, Mayong ascended to Godhood in the last 500 years. He didn't like it, so he chose to return to his immortal life as a vampire on Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>I thought the "Mayong as a god" bit was only in EQ1, after the timeline split?</p></blockquote><p>There's an NPC that said that event counted in EQ2's cannon as well.  I think he's somewhere in the Loping Plains.</p>

[Llogwey]

If I remember well, this NPC thinks he has heard "tales" or "rumors" of such event... that's not proven, even for him... I am still looking for any info that would prove this "mayong as a god... once" as canon in EQ2.

[Gormak]

<p>Mayong, Killingfrost all make reference to "its happening again"</p><p>What if its happened several times.</p><p>First time, Avatar of Theer was imprisioned in the Void</p><p>Second time, Anashti Sul</p><p>This time.... who was the target? Miragul? Najena? Mistmoore? Xebuxxoruuk?</p><p>What if the blue pic represents what had happened (the imprisionment of Theer) and The red one represents our current predicament.... Everyone who had gotten imprisioned in the void had some power, had done ... somthing, for the powers of influence at the time to cast them into the void. Personally i see this as mistmoore, He likely has posession of artifacts that would threaten the balance of things.</p><p>Perhaps by "releasing" anashti and Theer from their prisons we finally put an end to the voids influence on Norrath.</p><p>As far as the lore before us goes, we simple norathians may have not correctly dealt with the void incursions in the past. Perhaps in driving back the void we simply thwarted escape attempts by those imprisioned within.</p><p>Perhaps it is better that some of these entities be released.</p><p>Dissapointing we dont get old Xeb having somthing to say.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lord_Ebon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wanted to address something I see being repeated in this thread...and it has to do with Mayong Mistmoore being "undead".</p><p>He's not.</p><p>He IS a Vampire.</p><p>He IS immortal.</p><p>But at no point has he died (that we know of) and been raised (that we know of).</p><p>There seems to be some confusing of traditional/RL Vampire lore, with Norrathian Vampire lore. In RL lore, Vampires are undead beings, but in Norrath, they may not be. ESPECIALLY Mayong Mistmoore. He is different then other vampires in Norrath, his "children" (vampires he created) may be "undead", but he certainly is not. Everything points to him being a member of a race that is no longer around, of which he very well may be the last. No, Mayong Mistmoore is very much alive methinks.</p><p>As for him being the previous god of Disease, that doesn't seem to fit either. Mayong doesn't seem too interested in spreading diseases,pestilence, or plagues, he really doesn't even seem that interested in spreading Vampirism (which, I suppose could be comparable to, or some could consider it to be a sort of disease, but imo it doesn't really fit). I mean, he does create other Vampires, but he doesn't seem to really have ambitions to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everyone</span> a Vampire. Also, just look at Bert, his body is a rotting, pestilience ridden, vessel of disease, as is his plane. Compare that to Mayong, who is very much a dapper, well groomed individual and his many residences are always very neat, clean, and tidy. Anything is possible, but if Mayong was indeed a fallen god, I would think he have been the god of Magic, or the god of Cunning or some such, maybe even Hate, but not Disease.</p></blockquote><p>To add to this, Mayong ascended to Godhood in the last 500 years. He didn't like it, so he chose to return to his immortal life as a vampire on Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>I thought the "Mayong as a god" bit was only in EQ1, after the timeline split?</p></blockquote><p>There's an NPC that said that event counted in EQ2's cannon as well.  I think he's somewhere in the Loping Plains.</p></blockquote><p>To be more precise, the Freethinker NPC says that He obtained godhood, but for whatever reason, didn't like it and returned to what he used to be.</p><p>We also find out through other quests that he spent the last 500 years as a god living in the Plane of Hate. This doesn't mean he took over Innoruuk's position or anything, but he lived in the Plane of Hate.</p><p>What we are told is that he became a god, lived in the plane of hate, and gave it up. What we don't find out is *HOW* he became a god. There is no evidence to state that he became a god through the Depths of Darkhollow EQlive expansion method like he does in EQlive. We don't even know if he officially held a position. He was the Demi-God of Blood in EQlive.</p><p>It's entirely possible, and in my prefered opinion, plausible, that he became a god through completely unrelated mean in EQ2.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>It also raises the question of just why Innoruuk would be so accomodating in having another god share his plane without being under his control.  That is uncharacteristic at best, especially for Inny!</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Gormak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Mayong, Killingfrost all make reference to "its happening again"</p><p>What if its happened several times.</p><p>First time, Avatar of Theer was imprisioned in the Void</p><p>Second time, Anashti Sul</p><p>This time.... who was the target? Miragul? Najena? Mistmoore? Xebuxxoruuk?</p><p>What if the blue pic represents what had happened (the imprisionment of Theer) and The red one represents our current predicament.... Everyone who had gotten imprisioned in the void had some power, had done ... somthing, for the powers of influence at the time to cast them into the void. Personally i see this as mistmoore, He likely has posession of artifacts that would threaten the balance of things.</p><p>Perhaps by "releasing" anashti and Theer from their prisons we finally put an end to the voids influence on Norrath.</p><p>As far as the lore before us goes, we simple norathians may have not correctly dealt with the void incursions in the past. Perhaps in driving back the void we simply thwarted escape attempts by those imprisioned within.</p><p>Perhaps it is better that some of these entities be released.</p><p>Dissapointing we dont get old Xeb having somthing to say.</p></blockquote><p>Most likely he would be refering to the void invasion happening "again".</p><p>This storyline would of actually been much more exciting if it had happened the other way around. If one of the dieties had stepped out of line enough to cause the rest of the gods to turn on him and decide enough is enough and attempt to banish him to the void. When the attempt is made...the shadowmen forces are prepared and instead of casting the diety to the void, a permanent two way void portal is created and the invasion begins. *That* would of been epic.</p><p>The most likely diety to be banished would probably be Ralos Zek. He's stepped on Cazic's toes often enough. If the shattering was his doing (or he was framed for it) Luclin would turn on him. An attempt to cause a 3rd Ralosian Army could of been manufactured in Kunark (with the Sarnak being lured into Ralos's control they wouldn't be hiding out in Chardok but rather marching against both Danak and VP to lay claim to the powerful relics contained in Garnak's wall and Charsis plus the plunder of the dragons) which may cause the rest of the pathenon to consider Ralos too great of a threat and convince them to cast him to the void.</p><p>Once the void portal is opened the sweeping forces of the void cause the dieties to retreat. Ralos himself is able to fight his way to freedom. Anashti'sul is released in the initial wave and begins work on attempting to capture other "dieities" to perform the same banishment ritual on. Xeb is captured. Mayong Mistmoor lets the players in on what's going on as he himself is also a natural target for such an abduction. Players either interrupt or stumble upon the second ritual too late. Peicing clues together we figure out that Anashti'Sul is performing more banishment rituals to create more portals to the void in order to release "her master" Theer.</p><p>The other dieties start sending messages to the faithful that Anashti'Sul must be stopped at all costs. Ralos is amongst them. Apparently this threat eclipses anything Ralos was plotting and he is accepted back into the fold because the other dieties need him.</p><p>Anashti manages to open several small void portals via various events by banishing several ex-demigods, some of the more powerful spirits, a ritual at the world tree, and Innoruk betrays Queen Cristanos to Anashti.</p><p>Release Anashti'Sul as a raid target, but play it dirty. In order to harm Anashti you need to complete a quest line that hasn't been released yet. Release the quest line about a month later. The quest line is actually a quest line for each diety for that dieties' followers to receive his blessing. With the blessing you can harm Anashti.</p><p>As it turns out, Anashti attempts to warn the raid that in killing her you will release Theer. She makes a last moment plea for her life. The raid could stop at this point but lets be honest, your here to kill her and take her loots. Someone will do it. Anashti is destroyed and the statues located around the room (one for each diety in game) glow, banishing Anashti back to the Void and opening a huge portal.</p><p>A flash sceen is shown of another chamber elsewhere with a gigantic stone gateway. The gate is lined with void energy and glowing gems with a few gems left still dark. A wave of void energy strikes the portal and the remaining gems begins to glow. The portal slowly creaks open and Theer forces it with his bare hands once the doors crack appart a few inches (feet?). The void invasion begins in ernest now.</p><p>Oh well, we have what we have.</p>

[TaleraRis]

<p>Another left field comment, kind of related to the idea of Inny sharing his plane. What if that form we know as Inny is the front man? What if the being known as Mayong is really the one in charge? He seems the sort to let someone be the "face" and pull the puppet strings behind the scenes.</p>

[Thrads]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It also raises the question of just why Innoruuk would be so accomodating in having another god share his plane without being under his control.  That is uncharacteristic at best, especially for Inny!</p></blockquote><p>We don't specifically know where Inny has been for the past 500 years.  Remember, the gods were silent, and had left Norrath.  Inny might not have even been in the Plane of Hate, and Mayong could have been chilling in another god's vacated home.  Mayong seems too calculating for that to me though.  He's been doing all this research for so long, with these intricately weaved plots.  He's calm, clever, manipulative, and doesn't seem the type to want to take a vacation.</p><p>Oh, and per a GM back in EQ1, when I was a guide on the RP server, Mayong was not used much early in the game because he belonged to the niece of a higher up.  I believe said higher up was Bill Trost.  Without her consent, or Bill's, the devs and GMs couldn't do anything with him.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Thrads wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It also raises the question of just why Innoruuk would be so accomodating in having another god share his plane without being under his control.  That is uncharacteristic at best, especially for Inny!</p></blockquote><p>We don't specifically know where Inny has been for the past 500 years.  Remember, the gods were silent, and had left Norrath.  Inny might not have even been in the Plane of Hate, and Mayong could have been chilling in another god's vacated home.  Mayong seems too calculating for that to me though.  He's been doing all this research for so long, with these intricately weaved plots.  He's calm, clever, manipulative, and doesn't seem the type to want to take a vacation.</p><p>Oh, and per a GM back in EQ1, when I was a guide on the RP server, Mayong was not used much early in the game because he belonged to the niece of a higher up.  I believe said higher up was Bill Trost.  Without her consent, or Bill's, the devs and GMs couldn't do anything with him.</p></blockquote><p>Wow. That just gave me the funny image of a little girl playing with Mayong like a Barbie Doll.</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wanted to address something I see being repeated in this thread...and it has to do with Mayong Mistmoore being "undead".</p><p>He's not.</p><p>He IS a Vampire.</p><p>He IS immortal.</p><p>But at no point has he died (that we know of) and been raised (that we know of).</p><p>There seems to be some confusing of traditional/RL Vampire lore, with Norrathian Vampire lore. In RL lore, Vampires are undead beings, but in Norrath, they may not be. ESPECIALLY Mayong Mistmoore. He is different then other vampires in Norrath, his "children" (vampires he created) may be "undead", but he certainly is not. Everything points to him being a member of a race that is no longer around, of which he very well may be the last. No, Mayong Mistmoore is very much alive methinks.</p><p>As for him being the previous god of Disease, that doesn't seem to fit either. Mayong doesn't seem too interested in spreading diseases,pestilence, or plagues, he really doesn't even seem that interested in spreading Vampirism (which, I suppose could be comparable to, or some could consider it to be a sort of disease, but imo it doesn't really fit). I mean, he does create other Vampires, but he doesn't seem to really have ambitions to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everyone</span> a Vampire. Also, just look at Bert, his body is a rotting, pestilience ridden, vessel of disease, as is his plane. Compare that to Mayong, who is very much a dapper, well groomed individual and his many residences are always very neat, clean, and tidy. Anything is possible, but if Mayong was indeed a fallen god, I would think he have been the god of Magic, or the god of Cunning or some such, maybe even Hate, but not Disease.</p></blockquote><p>Granted, I have not seen anywhere that says specifically Mayong is undead. However he does seem to be ageless.</p><p>We know that some of Norrath's most powerful sorcerers have spent generations researching ways to cheat death, and even the best of them were unable to find any good answers. In fact, the only 2 successful means of cheating death that I'm aware of are to become undead, or ascend to godhood.</p><p>Now it's possible that Mayong, in his many centuries on Norrath, has found another alternative. Or mayhaps his near-godly powers have afforded him immortality. But given the fact that all other vampires seem to attain agelessness through undeath, it is not entirely unreasonable to assume that Mayong has done the same.</p><p>As for Mayong being the previous god of disease, or some other god, it's not entirely impossible. We have seen several instances where gods change their interests and persue something entirely different from what they originally represented. In fact he may have been kicked out of office specifically because he lost interest in diseases.</p><p>Though personally I like to imagine that Mayong is the last true member of a race that preceeded the dragons on Norrath, and now he is using Vampirism as Stage-1 of his master plan to return the Ydal to Norrath. Eventually, he will unleash the magic that transforms vampires back into the true Ydal race. But first, he has to learn more about the power of the gods so that he will be able to prevent them from wiping out his people like they did the first time.</p>

[Erithe]

<p>It was recently pointed out to me that Mayong discovered vampirism while studying magic with the Erudites, and that he was not always immortal.  This would be lore from EQ1.   How does that fit in with the current ideas?  Have we learned things that contradict it? </p><p>((I love these discussions btw ... I lurk a lot <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ))</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Erithe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was recently pointed out to me that Mayong discovered vampirism while studying magic with the Erudites, and that he was not always immortal.  This would be lore from EQ1.   How does that fit in with the current ideas?  Have we learned things that contradict it? </p><p>((I love these discussions btw ... I lurk a lot <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> ))</p></blockquote><p>With the ERUDITES!? Holy cow. There's literally no mention whatsoever that he ever did *ANYTHING* with the Erudites before.</p>

[Mirander_1]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Erithe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was recently pointed out to me that Mayong discovered vampirism while studying magic with the Erudites, and that he was not always immortal.  This would be lore from EQ1.   How does that fit in with the current ideas?  Have we learned things that contradict it? </p><p>((I love these discussions btw ... I lurk a lot <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> ))</p></blockquote><p>With the ERUDITES!? Holy cow. There's literally no mention whatsoever that he ever did *ANYTHING* with the Erudites before.</p></blockquote><p>I <span style="font-style: italic;">think</span> he might be mixing up Mayong and Miragul discovering lichdom.  But that's just my guess.</p>

[Erithe]

<p>Ahh, that would make more sense if it was Miragul.  I thought that the Erudites sounded odd, but the preson who I was talking to knows more about certain bits of the EQ1 lore than I do. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  So, I thought I'd mention it and see what happened.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>ahh. Yes. You're thinking of Miragul there. Mayong with the Erudites... Thats just... Inconcievable even for me. :p</p>

[steelbadger]

<p>As far as we're aware I'm pretty sure Mayong has been around at least since before the elves, dwarves and gnomes arrived on Faydwer (supposedly his castle was already constructed at that time).</p>

[Larkverdin]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To be more precise, the Freethinker NPC says that He obtained godhood, but for whatever reason, didn't like it and returned to what he used to be.</p><p>We also find out through other quests that he spent the last 500 years as a god living in the Plane of Hate. This doesn't mean he took over Innoruuk's position or anything, but he lived in the Plane of Hate.</p><p>What we are told is that he became a god, lived in the plane of hate, and gave it up. What we don't find out is *HOW* he became a god. There is no evidence to state that he became a god through the Depths of Darkhollow EQlive expansion method like he does in EQlive. We don't even know if he officially held a position. He was the Demi-God of Blood in EQlive.</p><p>It's entirely possible, and in my prefered opinion, plausible, that he became a god through completely unrelated mean in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>So Mayong technically became a god twice? Both the Vampire God in EQ1 and whatever god he became in EQ2's timeline? It seems like he made less of an announcement about it in EQ2 for whatever reason, not having his own plane, leaving godhood all together, ect.</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>Mayong is said to have ascended to godhood once in each of the 2 seperate timelines. There is very little information about his term as a god in eq2, and what little information we have is somewhat unreliable. Most anything said about him from the last 500 years in the eq2 timeline is largely speculation.</p>

[Larkverdin]

<p>Anyway, back to the Theer stuffs. I was looking for a featherfall cloak and happened upon this one here, and something about it slightly confused me: <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Cloak_of_Chelsith">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Cloak_of_Chelsith</a>. Now the clicky on this, turns you into a snake, does anyone know why? What significance does a snake have to do with the Chelsith Stone/Runes?</p>

[Llogwey]

well I suppose it has to do with the fact Chelsith is the capital of the Shissar Empire? and the Shissar race was a race of Snakemen (like the yuan-ti or sarrukh maybe? from the Forgotten Realms)

[Loxus]

<p>Greetings,</p><p>first I must admit I'm completely facinated with the lore of the game and how you guys derive the history from the clues you've received.  I know I'll never be that good, but I'd see if I could add something.</p><p>What if, if my sketchy knowledge of Anashti is correct, Mayong assisted (or actually coersed her to create undeath).  Is it possible that Mayong is a Y'Dal (or whatever) who was having an affair (or close relationship) with Ashati.  Mayong was researching the magics of undeath but wasn't powerful enough to pull it off.  So he convinced Ashati to help telling her it would be a new form of healing magic.  Of course it wasn't, it created undeath and Ashati took the blame for it and Mayong either through the backfiring of the magic or his intent was created as the first Vampire.  Ashati, was banished to the void for her atrosities, leaving the gods having to purge Norrath but leaving Mayong as a vampire.  Their experient subject was the vampire dragon that Mayong keeps locked up since Mayong hates dragons, it makes sense he use one as a test subject.</p><p>The Symbol on the floor is the rune that was used to create the undead magic by combining alll the elements in the symbol to create undeath (or remove it).</p><p>Ashati's desire to get back to norrath was to get back at the gods that banished her, but also get back to Mayong to pay him back for betraying/tricking her.</p><p>the swords, the swords of life and death combined (or used together) were used in the ritual.  Mayong wants the swords because they are the only 2 weapons that can kill him since they were used in creating him through use in the ritual.</p><p>The Eudites in painteel (now the hole) rediscovered his undeath magic and started researching it again.  EQ1 lore says something about a huge catastrophic event that created the hole.  What if it was the gods trying to stop them from bringing about what Mayong and Anashi started.</p><p>Forgive me if I'm out in left field here and if none of this is possible.</p>

[Larkverdin]

<p><cite>Llogwey wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>well I suppose it has to do with the fact Chelsith is the capital of the Shissar Empire? and the Shissar race was a race of Snakemen (like the yuan-ti or sarrukh maybe? from the Forgotten Realms) </blockquote><p>I'll buy that. I think the day after I posted this I was researching the stone and did discover that Chelsith was an actual place, not just the name of the stone. Thx tho Llog~</p>

[Ujina]

<p>About shissars, anybody noticed that a lot of kurn's tower loots have a shissar effect on them ? It's only a poison proc but having the shissar name appearing in the game again...</p>

[Larkverdin]

<p><cite>Ujina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>About shissars, anybody noticed that a lot of kurn's tower loots have a shissar effect on them ? It's only a poison proc but having the shissar name appearing in the game again...</p></blockquote><p>I can't verify this, seeing as I haven't been inside Kurn's quite yet, but that did make me think of something involving the new lore book found in-game yesterday. I believe if you look on page 7, there's mention of building a new Nexus. Could that have something to do with going back to Luclin? Could anything have survived when it exploded? Or maybe the *new* Nexus is to go to the other moon instead?</p>

[Llogwey]

I think the book you find is actually the creation of the Quellithullian order... when the great mages of Paineel and Erudin reunited to found the quellithullian order and then the new nexus that definitly changed the aspect of all Erudites on Odus... and possibly translocted Odus entirely... "somewhere" It is a very old text and I really think it has to do with the quellithullian history, after all, as the apprentice said, it was a "premiere" for him that erudites from Paineel meet with those of Erudin...

[Ashe_Litheros]

<p>Off topic but it's a theory about why we would see more Shissar references in game.</p><p>It's completely plausible that we could see the Shissar again at some point. If you read the prophecies of Zeb book that you find sitting on a table in Sage V'Ncenzis room in castle mistmoore you will find this passage:</p><p>"The hissing of the serpent shall strike back at this world with great ferocity."</p><p>It is possible that this points at the Shissar, or perhaps Veeshan. The fact that "this world" is specified in the prophecy implies that it would be an attack from somewhere else.</p><p>The Shissar managed to escape annihalation from the Greenmist by running to Luclin and living in an area with no air so they could avoid the Greenmist if it followed them. Their calendar foretold Luclins destruction. So, theoretically, they could have escaped to Drinal to avoid Luclins destruction. Drinal is supposedly uninhabitable, but so was The Grey, the place they lived in on Luclin.</p><p>Both the Shissar and Veeshan have plenty of motive to "strike back at this world with great ferocity".</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ashe_Litheros wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Off topic but it's a theory about why we would see more Shissar references in game.</p><p>It's completely plausible that we could see the Shissar again at some point. If you read the prophecies of Zeb book that you find sitting on a table in Sage V'Ncenzis room in castle mistmoore you will find this passage:</p><p>"The hissing of the serpent shall strike back at this world with great ferocity."</p><p>It is possible that this points at the Shissar, or perhaps Veeshan. The fact that "this world" is specified in the prophecy implies that it would be an attack from somewhere else.</p><p>The Shissar managed to escape annihalation from the Greenmist by running to Luclin and living in an area with no air so they could avoid the Greenmist if it followed them. Their calendar foretold Luclins destruction. So, theoretically, they could have escaped to Drinal to avoid Luclins destruction. Drinal is supposedly uninhabitable, but so was The Grey, the place they lived in on Luclin.</p><p>Both the Shissar and <strong>Veeshan</strong> have plenty of motive to "strike back at this world with great ferocity".</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, but.....what?</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>So... no one has had anything to contribute to the Anashti room glyphs?</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Would be nice, but as we don't have any further relevations ... there is not much we can do but to repeat what was already said.</p><p>Though, I do wonder why it was determined that this is the "Theer prophecy".</p><p>Secondly, to the Shissar reference, the race barely escaped the Greenmist. <em>Barely</em>. Only a handful survived by teleporting to Luclin. It doesn't seem to me that they had a lot of time to prepare for the prophecy of their race's demise to come. They knew something was coming for them, but no exact date or how it will happen.</p><p>The Grey was created by the Shissar. The region didn't exist until the Shissar arrived at a portion of the Scarlet Desert. Then they magically eliminated the atmosphere around their temple to protect themselves from another occurance of the Greenmist. They were <em>that</em> afraid.</p><p>At this point, I don't believe the Shissar will make an appearance. They had their run and their time was up a long time ago.</p>

[Vanisher123]

<p><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Would be nice, but as we don't have any further relevations ... there is not much we can do but to repeat what was already said.</p><p>Though, I do wonder why it was determined that this is the "Theer prophecy".</p><p>Secondly, to the Shissar reference, the race barely escaped the Greenmist. <em>Barely</em>. Only a handful survived by teleporting to Luclin. It doesn't seem to me that they had a lot of time to prepare for the prophecy of their race's demise to come. They knew something was coming for them, but no exact date or how it will happen.</p><p>The Grey was created by the Shissar. The region didn't exist until the Shissar arrived at a portion of the Scarlet Desert. Then they magically eliminated the atmosphere around their temple to protect themselves from another occurance of the Greenmist. They were <em>that</em> afraid.</p><p>At this point, I don't believe the Shissar will make an appearance. They had their run and their time was up a long time ago.</p></blockquote><p>Somewhere monthes ago, a dev stated "Don't count the shissar out yet, they are a very resiliant race" (quoted as best i can remember)</p><p>If they stick to this, then it seems we'll see something of the shissar again.</p>

[Brekkik]

I'm not sure if it's relevant to the discussion, but has anyone noticed that the symbols around the red circle also appear at the top of the tablets from Veeshan's Peak shown here: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=454998" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=454998</a> Like I said, not sure if it's relevant, but I don't think it was mentioned either.

[Noaani]

<p>I'm a little supprised no one has posted this yet...</p><p><a href="http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/?action=view&current=symbol.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/symbol.jpg" border="0" /></a></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a little supprised no one has posted this yet...</p><p><a href="http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/?action=view&current=symbol.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/symbol.jpg" border="0" /></a></p></blockquote><p>And that is...........?</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>And that is...........?</blockquote><p>A picture that strangly resembles one of the symbols on the first page?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>I should have clarified. I ment from Where, exactly, this is found. If it's from the new Shard of Love, then you shouldn't be surprised that it hasn't been posted yet, considering it's only been on Test for 2 days.</p>

[Greyquill]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a little supprised no one has posted this yet...</p><p><a href="http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/?action=view&current=symbol.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/symbol.jpg" border="0" /></a></p></blockquote><p>If I'm not mistaken a tenuous connection between this glyph and Erolisi had been reached several pages ago based on some rather interesting icon art choices from a "chalice" in EQ1. It's good to see some confirmation with a screenshot.</p>

[Arkenor]

<p>I just receiveds a most peculiar bits of paper, millions, no thousands, well hundreds of years olds:</p> <blockquote><ol><li ><div>Hey all,</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>First of all i'd like to say thanks to Maltheas for posting this for me! I'm liched from the original symbol thread on the EQ1 forums and wanted to share some info that might be of use in your search for this new circle.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>Don't discount the shape of the mistmoore item, the two moons are significant to us in the EQ1 universe and specifically the gods the moons represent. This may also point to a period of importance to mistmoore. Also do not forgot that in the EQ2 universe Earth and Sky are at war (see creation myths of the amygdalans and valkyrie for more details) This may be your up and down arrows.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>Alot of the guys in the thread also seem to get the bertoxxulous symbol mixed up as the bottom right one when it's the top right - the swirl, you can find these in the temple of bertox under Qeynos in EQ1.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>The alliz tae ew know of a planet with 5 moons (see the alliz onu lore) - notice how the chelsith stone has 3 circles smashed into the planet,  1 nearer the edge and 1 remaining in orbit? This is not unlike Norrath's remaining moon, with luclin being the most recent addition to the planet.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>'The world with the five moons and the two moons are only real.'</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>The central symbol is generally agreed upon as being Innoruuk. But we also have significant missing information for the 'Dal' before we knew them as Elves. This is probably a long time before EQOA, but we have nothing to go off on that one so we'll never know. But I wouldn't be suprised if all pointed eared races including mistmoore, innoruuk and all forms of dal of Tunaria/Antonica somehow fit into some founding race/races (like the xulous or something along those lines).</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>The story of the amyg and his implanting of fear and other emotions on the planet would fit nicely along side the elemental gods. Perhaps this is where some of the symbols are undecipherable.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>I think it's possible that the original storyline has been adjusted somewhat to fit the new unified EQ universe written by Vhalen. The return of the old healer may be a necessary part of this. I have a feeling the Alliz storyline, the black rock and the black rock inside the moons seem to all connected. Look into Morrel Thule/Luclin and the Alliz EQ2 details. I think Cazic/Source of the Amyg is a big part of what is going on.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>I will come over to EQ2 soon, it seems to be where all the lore is happening so I will join you all on the forums shortly.</div></li><li ><div> </div></li><li ><div>Until then, Good luck I will be following your wonderful thread with alot of interest!</div></li></ol></blockquote>

[Liched]

<div><p>Hey all,</p><p>I'm finally signed up to EQ2 and thought i'd post my thoughts from my thread on the EQ1 forums:</p><p><strong>THE FIRST CIRCLE</strong></p><p>First i thought i'd mention that the actual art asset for this circle in EQ1 is known as 'mcircle'. Others in the previous thread mentioned it could just literally be Magic Circle.</p><p><strong>MISTMOORE'S CASTLE</strong></p><p>Notable npcs on the circle; <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=2082" target="_blank">A Shadowy Scribe</a> (luclin?). The Gem above the ritual knife may also be of note.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/mistmoore_room.png" width="1680" height="988" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/mistmoore_gem.png" width="1680" height="988" /></p><p>Also the runes:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/mistmoore_tower_runes.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>Coffins here are also Terris Thule embossed.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/mistmoore_thule.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>The is only one of the following: (this kind of reminds me of that Erollisi post!)</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/mistmoore_someone.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><strong>OASIS OF MARR</strong></p><p>The oasis tower/rumoured? plane of hate gateway:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/oasis_tower.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><strong>PLANE OF HATE</strong></p><p>This symbol used to be in the Plane of Hate but then it was revamped and dissapeared.</p><p><span style="font-weight: bold; ">PERMAFROST</span></p><p>This symbol can be found in the scrying room in permafrost with the goblins. We came to the conclusion that the goblins probably drew some form of power from it to make predictions.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/permafrost.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">AK'ANON</span></p><p>This symbol is located in two places here. The Casters Guild and the Palace. Notable NPCs: <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ_Mob%3ATobon_Starpyre" target="_blank">Tarbon Starpyre</a> of the Eldritch Collective.</p><p>'<a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=28066" target="_blank">Meldrath the Malignant</a> quietly performed a ritual in the confines of his study at the Library Mechanamagica and unbeknownst to the Eldrich Collective or his own pupils, transported himself to the Plane of Innovation.'</p><p><a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/The_Plane_of_Innovation">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wik...e_of_Innovation</a></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/akan_library.png" width="1618" height="814" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/akan_kings.png" width="1463" height="644" /></p><p><strong>LAKE RATHETEAR</strong></p><p>One is on top of the Aviak Diving board and another on top of a tower.</p><p>Notable NPCs here would be: <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1963" target="_blank">Cyanelle</a>, <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1946" target="_blank">Eldreth</a>.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/rathe_nest.png" width="1680" height="988" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/rathe_nest_full.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/rathe_tower.png" width="1680" height="988" /></p><p><strong>AVIAK ISLE</strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-weight: normal; ">The Aviaks seem to have a fond love of the symbol. I never did do the content for this expansion so I'm not sure if there's anything useful for us.</span></strong></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/aviak.jpg" width="1000" height="852" /></p><p><strong>NERIAK</strong></p><p>3RD GATE</p><p>Not too far from the House of the Dead.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/neriak3rdgate.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>It also appears twice in Neriak Foreign Quarter. Above the gates with necromancers (<a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5188" target="_blank">X`Ta Timpi</a> etc).</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/neriak_foreign.png" width="1013" height="761" /></p><p>And near the pigstickers:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/neriak_foreign2.png" width="1017" height="754" /></p><p><strong>QEYNOS CATACOMBS</strong></p><p>With the bloodsabers of Cazic Thule: Again it's probably used for some sort of ritual. Note the candles! This is also the location of the Bertoxxulous Swirl.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/qeynoscat.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><strong>RATHE MOUNTAINS</strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-weight: normal; ">First is again atop a tower with two guards (<a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=3093" target="_blank">Guard Gruilka</a>, <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=3094" target="_blank">Guard Shiznak</a>) on Da Basher and Night Keep faction. The <span style="font-family: verdana; color: #b5b5b5; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; "><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; ">Lanys temple which was added during an event (near where <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=3106" target="_blank">Zazamoukh</a> used to live). This is now the froglok necromancer guild.</span></span></span></strong></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/rm1.png" /></p><p><span style="font-weight: bold; ">THE HOLE (RUINS OF OLD PAINEEL)</span></p><p>This is the only location on Odus and they can be found twice. One is in a room with <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=12940" target="_blank">Protector of the Ruins</a> and 3 portals that lead to several locations (neriak, erudin and somewhere else). It is also located behind what looks to be a library. The damaged sign on this lost shop says called Erud's Bane.</p><p>It is also probably important to note that all 3 portals have gem stones of different colours above.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/hole_library.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/hole_portals.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><span style="font-family: verdana; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">Protector of the Ruins says 'Greetings traveler, it has been ages since I have seen another living person. I have spent many years down here trying to perfect an ancient spell discovered long ago. While the history of this place is still told throughout Norrath, only those who live here know what really went on when the heretics moved down here. . .'</span></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/potr.png" width="353" height="542" /></p><p>That about covers all the locations of the circle (sorry about the missing hateplane 1.0 one)</p><p>Now for some additional information that may help!</p></div>

[Liched]

<p><div><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">MISC INFORMATION</span></p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">BERTOXXULOUS & The War of Plagues</span></p><p>Bertoxxulous's creation story is fascinating in the <span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; line-height: 16px;"><a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=168" target="_blank">The Necropolis of Lxanvon Vol. I-II</a></span><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 16px;">.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-weight: bold;">Note that this may be the first event on the external circle</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-weight: bold; line-height: 16px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">I did see a lesser spotted piece of art in the Lair of Splitpaw (note the arrow relationship) that I thought i'd share it for interest if not anything else. </span></span></p><p>The Xulous really does need more investigation, it is probably one of the first races of Norrath. Unfortunately I don't play EQOA!</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/wall_bloodsaber.png" width="554" height="558" /></p><p>It probably relates to the events of Qeynos (<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=255" target="_blank">War of Plagues</a>):</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/splitpaw_bloodsaber.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>I can't recall the gnoll involvement but if someone could dig it up that'd probably help. </p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">ERUD, HIS DEPARTURE FROM ANTONICA AND THE EVENTS THAT LED TO THE HERETIC WARS</span></p><p>The Erudite symbol has always confused me. To me, the Heretic logo (which slightly differs from the Erudite one) reminds me of Terris Thule. I thought originally it could just be a symbol for knowledge but I don't see anything related to Quellious with that symbol. I'm still really confused about the second symbol on the outer ring.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/d_terris_thule.gif" width="160" height="178" /></p><p>Perhaps looking into EQOA and the details of Highbourne may help with this. We certainly know that whatever the symbol is in relation to it has something to do with the Erudites and is probably sometime after Erud made his crossing to Odus.</p><p>I wouldn't be suprised due to their close proximity to the old Xulous location if this is how they began to dabble in necromancy.</p><p>This map might spark some ideas:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/norrathmid.jpg" width="1200" height="640" /></p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">'Soon enough the lizardmen no longer were able to feed us Amygdalan, for our numbers were many. He who is the Source offered another gift to his children and told us where we could find more amyg to feed from. Listening to His divine wisdom, we created a great ball filled with much amyg. When this ball was done, the Source of Amyg would then send it forward to a place we would call the Dulling.'</span></p><p>Under one of the temples of Cazic Thule is the following:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/globe.png" width="611" height="483" /></p><p>You might want to read into what involvement Terris Thule, Luclin and Morrell Thule have together. The Lizardmen back story seems to suggest that:</p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">'The horned lizard with four legs and two more above spoke for the stars. The light of the north sky would follow this great lizard and the lizard would follow it. The white lizard was there when the night would come and was not there when the day warmed our skin. The hooved lizard would show us the fourth secret. We now knew the secret of the Onu's heart. The secret was Ew.'</span></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/d_morrell_thule.gif" width="160" height="178" /> </p><p>We also know that this guy was specifically involved with the events of Mithaniel Marr and the splitting of the gift of life.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-weight: bold;">Note that this may be the second event on the external circle</span></p><p>The Lizards also speak of:</p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">'In the land of the five moons, the stars still spoke with us. They taught us the secrets of the marsh. They taught us the secrets of fire. But the stars did not teach us the secrets of our heart. We could not feed until this secret was known.'</span></p><p>'<span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">The many worlds wrap around us like the smell of the swamp on our tongue. The world with the five moons and the two moons are only real. The worlds that are not real do not exist until they do. The world of the shattered moon and the world of no moons and all moons do not exist. The Alliz Evol Ew know this. And we know they are real.'</span></p><p>I like the 5 circles that we see on the current hint. Is it possible that these are the 5 moons? Have many moons crashed into Norrath before? </p><p>What if these were more than moons? Veeshan apparently claimed Norrath herself first (potentially the central symbol). Brell and his trio came in second and finally the last pact was taken between the Darker gods. Is it possible that these moons were drawn towards this planet over time and had a massive effect on her. (Bringing life and all it's peculiarities). Is it possible that one of these glyphs/moons/gods that is already present in the planet on the image below is the symbol of a Tree - Tunare? What would the other three be? Water (Tarew), Rock and Fire (Brell/Solusek) and Life (Tunrae). Is the fourth the entry of Luclin into the planet bringing finally the 'emotions' of the other gods?</p><p>'<span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">In the time before the land was flowing with thought and emotion, there were those who were the only ones who felt. The source of Amyg was amongst these beings that were the only keepers of emotion. Being the first, He did not know of solid forms nor did He need them. But as the other Lesser Emotions would take forms, He too, would see a need to do the same.'</span></p><p>'<span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">When the world was still young, all things were clean. The elements worked in harmony and the Urges of Heaven were calm. This was the time known as the Contentment. All things were good and all things were at peace. This would soon change with the coming of the mortals. As life would begin, the Contentment would end.'</span></p><p>There is a specific asteroid near the gigantic destroyed spire on Luclin (See Mons Latalis) that smashed into her many many years ago that may also have brought a particular race:</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">'<strong>The Spire</strong></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">This odd formation resembles the wizard spires of Norrath and the transfer points in Shadow Haven and the Nexus. Four graceful columns bend inward toward the towering central spire, around which the entire structure is built. A winding spiral staircase runs up the center of the Spire, accessible through a small entrance in the ravine below. The staircase ends at a massive platform, hundreds of feet above the ground, where the four columns rise further into the hazy distance. The Spire has no living inhabitants. It is infested with creatures called spire spirits, however — cloaked, shadowy entities that float silently up and down its stairs and wander across the platform above. Their exact nature and origin is not known, for few explorers have even seen the Spire up close, let alone survived the experience. The greatest of these spire spirits is the fearsome Spire Lord, a powerful creature with an insatiable enmity toward the living. The Spire Lord carries three potent magic items: the blade of loathing, the cloak of torment, and the crown of torment (all new items; see Chapter 5: New Magic), and from time to time veteran adventurers have come here to try and wrest the items from him. All have failed, for the Spire Lord appears to have a special connection to this place, and legend holds that he can never be defeated as long as this connection remains..'</p><p>Wasn't there a ring that surrounded luclin at some point? Could these be the other gods of emotion that we now see as our enemies? War, Hate and so on?</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #c0c0c0;"><strong>The Fallen Orb (EQRPG Page 126)</strong></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #c0c0c0;">'Even before the coming of the shissar to Luclin, this region had been the victim of a cosmic disaster. Previously a lush wilderness that stretched from Marus Seru to the Scarlet Desert, the land was shattered when it was struck by a great celestial body — the great rocky sphere that today lies embedded in the Mons Letalis. Some claim that the sphere’s fall is associated with the coming of the Maiden’s Scar, the terrible storm that devastated nearby regions, but no convincing evidence of this has yet been uncovered. The Orb is enormous, and still retains its spherical shape even after its fearsome impact into the mountain range. Scholars from Seru are said to have examined the Orb on several occasions, attempting to confirm a legend stating that the Orb is hollow and full of hidden tunnels, where ancient treasures and artifacts can be found. Some wild theories hold that one or more of the monstrous races of Luclin — the most common candidates are the netherbians and the thought horrors — actually arrived with the Fallen Orb, and have since spread throughout Luclin.'</span></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/chelsith.jpg" width="800" height="1224" /></p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">ORCS AND POTENTIALLY ZEK</span></p><p>As far as the the bottom left symbol goes this particular asset is known as <strong>orctotem</strong>, it can also be found above Crushbone in EQ1. I would like to say it's specific to one of the Zek's but I can't be certain. All I know is that it seems to be near Orcs and occasionally Gnolls.</p><p>I can only think of the events that took place when Rallos invaded the Plane of Earth.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-weight: bold;">Note that this may be the third event on the external circle</span></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/orctotem.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">MAYONG MISTMOORE</span></p><p>Also of interest may be the doors in Mistmoore for your bone symbol:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/door_mistmoore.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><div>Mayong's involvement had a massive impact on EQ1 when we had undead armies covering nearly all of Norrath. This all came about during the Lost Dungeons of Norrath/Wayfarer's Brotherhood era which was the start of the introduction of Discord and the Void arc. We eventually found that Mayong had managed to weaken solusek ro which had caused the sun Ro to dim. </div><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-weight: bold;">Note that this may be the fourth and final event on the external circle</span></p><div><span style="font-weight: bold;">OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST</span></div><p>This particular instrument is near the symbol on several occasions, again we believed it to be part of some sort of ritual and it was related to the Combine Empire.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/ritual.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><strong>AN UNKNOWN FLAG</strong></p><p>We still don't know..!</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/dflag.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">THE BEST PLACE FOR ALL THE SYMBOLS</span></p><p>The place that you will find nearly all of the old circle symbols is most definately Solusek's Eye which is full goblins and kobolds.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_doorway1.png" width="636" height="351" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_doorway2.png" width="451" height="389" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_doorway3.png" width="800" height="600" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_wall1.PNG" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_wall2.PNG" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_wall3.PNG" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/sol_wall4.PNG" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p><strong>A FINAL FOOTNOTE CELESTIAL BODIES, XULOUS, JAL'RAETH AND DAL</strong></p><p>I know that the xulous, jal'raeth were on Antonica before most of the races. It's possible some of these races were twisted into what we see today. Searching south antonica is where you'd find the best information on EQ1. </p><p>Really read into the <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=263" target="_blank">Amyg story line</a> and Lizardmen history as it may hold some clues.</p><p><span style="font-weight: bold;">THANKS FOR READING!</span></p><p>That just about completes the information and also my own thoughts on some of the new lore that has come out from EQ2. I'm sure I have alot to catch up on which I will be getting involved in now I'm signed back up. It's kind of upsetting for me to think that what I thought was a totally messed up game when EQ2 launched could actually be a very clever plot line that started to weave it's way into the game as far back as the launch of Luclin. Perhaps we take for granted what we expect EQ to be and that is why alot of us didn't take so kindly to EQ2 when it was first released.</p><p>I look forward to the future and hope you enjoyed the notes I've put together. I certainly can't wait to read what information you guys can provide particularly since the advent of the new circle we see.</p><p>Finally: I just wanted to say how amazed I am with the work Tony Garcia/Vhalen and the art that Bill Trost put into the original content. We are fast seeing revamps on old zones on EQ1 that is wiping alot of this wall art from the game. It's sad to see it go so I hope I can keep these images hosted as long as possible before they dissapear from time forever.</p><p>Good luck lore lovers!</p><p>Mixxit N'Dance</p></div></p>

[Liched]

<p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/jaw.png" width="103" height="114" /></p><p>Before I hit the sack I am certain I have seen something similar in EQ1, I remember it as a jaw/creatures mouth on some walls somewhere. I am pretty sure it was near runnyeye or beholder but I took a quick look and couldn't see anything. Maybe it was somewhere in Guk or on Kunark. I'll let you know what I find tommorow.</p>

[Liched]

<p>Hi,</p><p>I'm back! Here are some more details since my last post:</p><p><strong>RACES ARRIVING THROUGH CELESTIAL BODIES</strong></p><p><p>Here's a shot of the gigantic spires with the luclin shades in Mons Letalis and the asteroid I spoke of above:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/mons_letalis_ruins.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p></p><p><strong>HATE PLANE CIRCLES</strong></p><p>The new position of the circles in hate plane have been located:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/hateplane1.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>Just to note the fear totems you see here with the burning faces are probably Cazic Thules influence as the asset is known as fearplug. Would you consider Hate as fueled by Fear? Also note the Druid style rings here (see below).</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/hateplane2.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>These unmarked druid rings remind me somewhat of the T/D symbol druid rings we see all over Norrath. Another DAL influence? This screenshot is taken from directly outside mistmoore castle but they can be found all over norrath. These particular rings no longer function. Mistmoore stopping travellers from arriving at his Castle? </p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/tdruinsmistmoore.png" width="1024" height="768" /></p><p>Regards</p><p>Mixxit/Liched</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Woah. Way too many pictures.</p><p>Welcome to the boards and the game, but I suggest you only link to the pictures if you ever need to do this again in the future.</p><p>Next, the picture of the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">symbol</span> Rune you call "orctotem" is pretty much Rallos Zek's symbol. There's no evidence to prove it's not, but it's too prevailent among his races to say otherwise. The Ogres have a monument with that Rune decorated all over it down in the Feerrott in EQlive.</p>

[Liched]

<p>Hey Cusas,</p><p>Sorry about the large chunk of images, i did intend for it to be that way to help people see the symbols/runes/glyphs and decor as I feel they are an important part of their meaning (as also stated by Vhalen on our boards back in 2006). I will try to keep the the width down to help the thread width and reader bandwidth however.</p><p><strong>THE COMBINE/SACRIFICIAL SYMBOL</strong></p><p>It may not actually be what we originally thought as I have managed to locate the ritual dagger and symbol in the hidden spires in Timorous Deep. </p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/lost_spires.png" width="622" height="390" /></p><p>Inside are all the fireports to various cities with the appropriate symbol to represent each city. As you can see the (formally combine) symbol is also here with the dagger and bowl.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/halas_symbol2.png" width="722" height="563" /> </p><p>Double clicking on this bowl takes you to Halas (and promptly kills my iksar!)</p><p>I'm not sure what this bowls significance has in relationship to the Barbarians and the Red MCircle. Perhaps it is something to do with the source of the Barbarians, being the descendents of men and erudites alike. Perhaps Mistmoore and the Bloodsabers know something about the Barbarians/Marr Twins that appear to enhance or be a catalyst to the power of the circle.</p>

[Liched]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next, the picture of the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">symbol</span> Rune you call "orctotem" is pretty much Rallos Zek's symbol. There's no evidence to prove it's not, but it's too prevailent among his races to say otherwise. The Ogres have a monument with that Rune decorated all over it down in the Feerrott in EQlive.</p></blockquote><p>I'm just going to go find this now and I'm running around Feerott going from map point to map point. I'll post a single image of all the Rallos Zek monuments with this symbol on when I've found one. A loc might be of use if you could locate it, i'm suprised I haven't seen it when I was looking into the Alliz!</p>

[Liched]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next, the picture of the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">symbol</span> Rune you call "orctotem" is pretty much Rallos Zek's symbol. There's no evidence to prove it's not, but it's too prevailent among his races to say otherwise.</p></blockquote><p>Also to note there is evidence as Ridefort pointed out on our thread that it may not be directly his symbol (See the known pop and serpent spine+ symbols for Rallos Zek below). Rideforts suggestion was that the symbol seen above the gates below (and on his own suit of amour/shield) is the symbol for Rallos Zek and the other symbol we see may represent his worshippers.</p><p><img src="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/Apolline/valdeholm-fortress.jpg" width="800" height="600" /></p>

[Vanisher123]

<p>WOW...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Thanks for having the picture, I hate chasing links. Very nice finding the link in the lizard lore (how the hell did we all miss this stuff? lol)</p><p>The mention of the 5 moons is very interesting, as you said the Chelsith stone shows 3 circles on the main orb (norrath i assume), and 2 circles around it, one which is shattered.</p><p>You just gave us a crap load of stuff to discuss that no one saw. VERY NICE WORK! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Liched]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The Ogres have a monument with that Rune decorated all over it down in the Feerrott in EQlive.</p></blockquote><p>Hey Cusas, definately not in live at the moment, scouted the entire zone. I'm digging out my Kunark cd's to check if it's in the old assets. Also checked Oggok but haven't gone as far as Innothule. It is definately in lake rathetear though. Not sure if that's of any use (Surrounded by Gnolls).</p><p>----</p><p>I really am starting to think that the outer symbols don't necessarily resemble Rallos or Cazic as such, but more literally just ZEK, THULE, XULOUS etc.</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/the_split_paw.png" /></p><p>I couldn't be overly sure if this would be of any use from Splitpaw with the recent paw-print image linked a couple of posts back. Is it possible they have been reunited or it relates to Ralfron-Zek? The gnolls have been known to dabble in the dark arts and they are also around the 'orctotem' in Lake Rathetear. Could they have split into two factions but are now being reunited? </p><p>Note the (what i presume to be) Jal'Raeth style art to the left of the split paw symbol also (i've never seen anything like this any where else but here:</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/rodcet.png" width="160" height="178" /></p><p>The gnolls of South Karana have been in close range of the Xulous. Also note this little story from EQOA:</p><p>'<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; ">The banner is that of Grenal. As a Gnoll Necromancer, he is a rare sight indeed. Gnolls bury or burn their dead as soon as possible. Those that linger among corpses are distrusted in current gnoll society, which forced Grenal to find somewhere else to practice his art, alone. Along with a small retinue of animated gnoll corpses, he found the ruins of an elvish outpost that had been destroyed centuries ago. He built upon these ruins his own fortress and began studying again. However, without a constant supply of corpses, he could not continue his work easily'</span></p><p>Again the Heretics of Erudin before they moved over were from Highbourne, the closest city to the where the Jal'Raeth had been studying the now vanished city of Lxanvom and the Xulous. (Some believe this to be the crater where Lake Rathetear now lies) It's a possibility that the second symbol may resemble them in some way.</p><p><a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=103&ss=xulous" target="_blank">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=we...d=103&ss=xulous</a></p><p>'<span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; ">I even remember that he smelled different, like nothing I could name, but it wasn't unpleasant -- no, I remember thinking it was a very fresh smell, like clean blankets. When he spoke, I couldn't understand what he said, and I merely stared up at him with a mixture of curiosity and terror. He seemed to wiggle something near his ear, and then when he spoke, I heard clearly:</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; ">"Is there disease here? Has the Xulous force reached this world?"'</span></p><p>From The Kyv’s post about deities:</p><p>'Some cultures tell stories of the origins of the Prime Healer.  They speak of an intelligent race of beings who lived in the southwest corner of the ancient continent Tunaria.  This race, called the Jalraeth, were consumed with acquiring knowledge, and understanding all they could.  These beings were immortal, and being so, were obsessed with death, something they could not experience first hand.  In their studies, they would kill anything that ventured near their Castle of Envar in the Dead Hills in an effort to study it.'</p><p><span style="font-size: 11px; font-style: italic; font-weight: bold; ">Vanisher123 wrote:</span></p><div><blockquote><p>You just gave us a crap load of stuff to discuss that no one saw.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks bud! It took me quite some time to get all that together, appreciate the kind comments! Hopefully we can help each other as this has really been niggling at me for some time. </p><p>Side note: I've resized all the images down to 1024x768 but the forum cache isn't updating it seems - I've sent a message to a forum op to try to get it editted for me so hopefully that'll be done soon to save having to scroll right for others who haven't checked it out yet.</p><p>I'm going to go back to EQ1 to see if I can see anything else while I wait on EQ2 to patch, then the fresh hunt is back on! (I'm going to start with all necromancer locations I think - but looking at your new circle it might be that it's counterbalancing the old one, so possibly it relates more to the new healer god and it'll be found in Cleric guilds and such). I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the patch to complete! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> *rubs his modem* come on baby!</p></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Excellent posts Liched, I wish there were more collaboration between the lorists of all the EQ milleus, though it might hoplessly confuse things.</p>

[Liched]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Excellent posts Liched, I wish there were more collaboration between the lorists of all the EQ milleus, though it might hoplessly confuse things.</p></blockquote><p>Hi Mary, I think you'll have alot of trouble in EQ1 or EQOA due to the fact that Vhalen's unified timeline only appears mainly here in EQ2. (But I do have a feeling they're trying to implement it into EQ1 with current expansions). The EQ2 Tae Ew story seems to fit really nicely with the changing of time and worlds existing - and not, truth and untruth. I wouldn't be suprised if the Temple of Cazic Thule had a significant part in the EQ1 storyline at some point until sometime around 2003!</p>

[Liched]

<p>Actually, forget I said that that!</p><p><a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=398">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=398</a></p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;">'This is a story made from wind and earth. This is a truth that can become a lie if it is spoken too much, so beware.'</span></p>

[Liched]

<p>Speaking of Wind and Earth:</p><p><a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=266">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=266</a></p><p>'<span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; ">When it is to end, Sky and Earth would wage endless war against each other. As one side gained the advantage, the other side would steal it away from the other. This would continue until both agreed to one Final Battle. Sky made its champions to fight against Earth, and Earth made its champions to fight against Sky. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; ">Earth thought long and hard and created its champion. Taking only from Earth and placing no Sky within its creation, Earth breathed its own essence into its warriors. Sky watched Earth, and being ever jealous, stole some of Earth to put in its champions. Earth was smarter, for there was not much room for Sky's essence in its creations. And thus, the Minotaurs and the Valkyries were created. As the Final Battle would begin, the Minotaurs would win every battle. Soon enough Sky realized it was about to lose, the great act of treachery was performed. Sky hid away its champions to stall the battle. Earth seeing this, stole a piece of Sky when it wasn't looking and showed the Minotaurs how to use Sky against its champions when the battle would resume. And thus, Magic was made. The Kings would watch as the Minotaurs were given everything and they, Earth's first companions, were given nothing. Having a piece of Sky within them, they felt jealousy just as she did. The Kings reached out and stole most of the Minotaur's Magic, upon which Earth banished the Kings into a circle of hidden places. And thus, the Evil Ring was made. Thinking this was a sign of weakness on Earth's part, Sky brought forth the Valkyries once again. Continuing to cheat during the Final Battle, Sky summoned forth all of its strength and blew away all of the Earth's many, many companions. All that remained on Earth's body were the Minotaurs and the Valkyries. And thus, the Last Two were made. As the two champions fought, so would Earth and Sky. Watching as both champions were about to end in a draw, Sky launched a daring assault upon Earth. Opening all of its old wounds, Sky began to bleed upon Earth hoping to drown the Minotaurs. Earth was ready for this trick and formed a shield. The blood of Sky and the shield of Earth would become merged as one. And thus, Ice was formed. Sky could no longer reach Earth and Earth could no longer reach Sky, for Ice separated the two. Knowing that Sky could no longer touch Earth in anger, its anger raged out of control. Getting more and more angry, Sky spun itself into great circling storms until finally it could not undo the great knot it had tied itself in. And thus, the Great Maelstrom was made. Earth could no longer reach Sky and Sky could no longer reach Earth, for Ice separated the two. Knowing that Earth was prevented from lashing out in its anger, it began to boil and stew in its frustration. Its anger would rumble and rumble, tearing itself apart. When the anger subsided, Earth had crumbled until it was only a tiny portion of what it used to be. And thus, the Final Land was made. Knowing the Last Battle could not be won by cheating, allowing only for the champions to decide the outcome, Sky became spiteful. Reaching over to one of its original companions, Sky squeezed it until it burst, raining pieces of a Moon down upon the Ice. And thus, the One Moon was made. And now the fight continues. The Valkyries are the champions of Sky and we Minotaurs are the champions of Earth. The Final Battle will be fought until there is only one victor. And since we Minotaurs have more essence of Earth than the Valkyries have of Sky, it is only a matter of time before Earth prevails and the Valkyries are destroyed.'</span></p><p>This symbol might represent the battles between Earth *Down* and Sky *Up* . The two crescents could symbolise the era of the two remaining moons *Luclin*/*Drinal* (the time of the cataclysm).</p><p><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/freethinkers.png" width="39" height="102" /></p>