What Happened?

[BladeLo]

<p>When I first came to this game my wife would come into the room and listen to Ole Dagorel tell me what it took to become a Warrior or Crusader.  We would both listen to speeches as the NPC's of this game unraveled a story that made us feel included in the eq2 world.  As we worked our way to level 10 we did so with the idea that we would be making choices as to which path our new lives would take.  Crusader or Warrior.</p><p>When I walked the streets of Qeynos the streets were alive with players and npc's alike.  NPC's offered quests and a story and charm and character.  The game was a world of its own.  The game had feel and lore.  The game was a world come alive.</p><p>A story was weaved from the time a player first entered the game and was taken to the isle on the boat.  Tired, hungry and frightened.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out on a new adventure and not sure how it was going to end.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out a pauper.  With NOTHING and that somehow you were going to have to earn your way in the world if you ever wanted to stand out.</p><p>Qeynos or Freeport was all about YOU.  It was about how YOU were going to fit into the society that had been carved out of the shattered lands.  It was how YOU were going to make things just a tad bit better.  It was about how YOU were going to save the day for the citizens as you quested to make the lands, no matter your alignment, a better place.</p><p>The game was about YOUR place in this lands.  NOW the game is about YOU alright.  It is about how fast you can get to level 80.  How fast you can become a master tradeskiller in 9 professions.  It is about raiding and instancing and getting awesome armor.</p><p>Today the cities are empty.  The NPC's are silent.  The charm and the flair and the feel is gone.  Qeynos is a desolate place as if the heart and soul of the town and the game have been ripped from them and they are just waiting for the Overlord to take them into chains and turn them into undead.</p> <p> Because the lands I once loved are gone.  Replaced with instant gratification.  I do not begrudge instances or groups or raids or super armor or the eternal quest for glory in deep dark dungeons.  The only thing I bemoan is that this game has been gutted of its content, feel, flair, panache and lore for the almighty race to level 80.  Just as modern day society is racing at dizzying paces so to is Everquest 2. </p><p>I could be wrong.  But thats my story and Im sticking too it.  You want to bring back customers Sony?  Then bring back the heart and soul of this game.  Somehow, somewhere you got lost as you focused on end game content.  Instead of focusing on the entire game you focused on just one aspect of it.  End game.  Essentially your saying to your players.  Race to level 80.  YOU WIN.  Game over.</p>

[Logan]

<p>Over the years the game world has lost its consistency and immersion. We have become accustomed to pop culture refrences in our quests.  There are robots and aliens. People wear illusion items and shrink themselves and destroy the scale of the game.We have come to a point where gnome shenanigans are the focus of your entry to the new expansion where you are shot in a barrel over a gorge. Eq2 has become a whimsical game. One thing that really bothers me is when you out to say..the city of jinisk..well theres no city..there arent even a couple of huts. or go to outer sebilis and same thing. at least bathezid watch had some bunk beds. strangely the orcs of norrath seem to have the best supply masters in their strongholds,,,actually looks like an army exists there. but again theres no consistency with the rest of thegame world.</p><p>I thought we were done with rockets and aliens when luckin crashed..no such luck.</p>

[Graffix_75]

<p>I completely agree, the immersed feeling I experience from the moment I started a new character, stepping onto the isle where you are promptly asked for the class you wanted to be. I much rather prefer the original class progression, it really felt like a Role playing MMO, the different stages in your class progression had immersive storylines. I remember when I reached lvl 20 and finally became a Wizard, I felt a real sense of accomplishment. I remember the rather funny storyline for the mage->summoner->Necro progression.</p><p>For me personally, the journey is just as, if not, more important than the end game. As others have mentioned, now, it's just a race to level cap.</p>

[liveja]

<p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p>IMO, the downfall of this game began the day SOE eliminated shard recovery & shared group debt. Back in those "bad" old days, I had less trouble finding groups, & more fun in them. But since then, SOE has gone to great lengths to eliminate the "need" for grouping, by increasingly making it easier & faster to solo for XP & loot, & the game has been increasingly feeling "gutted."</p><p>The downfall continued when SOE neutered Ant, CL, & Nek, & continued its dizzying pace when first Darklight Woods & then Timorous Deep were introduced. After all, who needs to do those dull, boring old zones when you can level to 20 in one afternoon of easy TD questing, then pop over to DLW to finish up the higher level quests there, then hop straight to BBM & ignore the old world entirely?</p><p>Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.</p><p>That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."</p><p>MMOs have been gutted by the "I want it NOW" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Loolee]

<p>Just like real life, this game is what you make it.  Stop relying on the developers to create your fun for you.  If you like the lore, then slow down and read the quests.  EQ has a very rich history if you take the time to find it.  Join a roleplaying server, you may not roleplay, but you will find a lot of the lore junkies there.  Find like minded players and do what feels natural to you, no one should begrudge you for that, and if they do, then they have lost sight of what is important.</p><p>I'm far from uber but have continued to enjoy this game from day one.  You get what you put into it.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Graffix_75 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I completely agree, the immersed feeling I experience from the moment I started a new character, stepping onto the isle where you are promptly asked for the class you wanted to be. I much rather prefer the original class progression, it really felt like a Role playing MMO, the different stages in your class progression had immersive storylines. I remember when I reached lvl 20 and finally became a Wizard, I felt a real sense of accomplishment. I remember the rather funny storyline for the mage->summoner->Necro progression.</p><p>For me personally, the journey is just as, if not, more important than the end game. As others have mentioned, now, it's just a race to level cap.</p></blockquote><p>The class progression was fun, once. It was not fun your 5th time through. It was tedious and repetitive. In some cases, it also made no sense (Fighter > Crusader > Shadowknight being an example where the gameplay as a Crusader was completely different than what you'd end up with as a Shadowknight).</p><p>This game is 4 years old. You have to expect that they're going to focus more on the end-game simply because that's where most of the playerbase is. That said, it is only a race if you decide to run. With the last update, you have the ability to completely control your rate of advancement, and can disable the bonus XP, combat XP and/or quest XP as you see fit. The amount of time you spend smelling the roses is completely under your control, so I don't see how anyone could reasonably think that they're being forced to "race to level cap" in the game.</p>

[Illmarr]

<p>People often speak about "Next-gen MMO's". IMO Current MMO's have already become next-gen MMO's due to their player base. Your average MMO player of 2008 is a much different beast than your MMO player of 2000. Those of us who have played through the changes in the player culture can look back and see where the bus went off the tracks from our perspective.</p><p>On a side note, on release day I made the comment to my wife how disappointed I was that no one from the Landing site I spoke to had any voice aside from a generic greeting. I take the time to read all quest dialog, but it's funner to read along with the voice asking for your help or telling the story. Then was shocked that there is new voice acting from the quest givers located near the entrances to the various dungeon instances.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.<p>That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."</p></blockquote><p>Yes and no. The legendary faction stuff that you can buy, with a few exceptions, is expensive junk. There are a few decent rewards for quests that are soloable, but they are tedious quest lines (Thuuga, Jarsath Hunters) with a large timesink component to them.</p><p>For the most part, the end-game items that are truly worthwhile in the game do require at least group effort. If they really only "care about themselves, their own adventure" then they're going to end-up with half-baked, mediocre toons at level cap.</p>

[Apocroph]

<p><cite>Logannx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Over the years the game world has lost its consistency and immersion. We have become accustomed to pop culture refrences in our quests.  There are robots and aliens. People wear illusion items and shrink themselves and destroy the scale of the game.We have come to a point where gnome shenanigans are the focus of your entry to the new expansion where you are shot in a barrel over a gorge. Eq2 has become a whimsical game. One thing that really bothers me is when you out to say..the city of jinisk..well theres no city..there arent even a couple of huts. or go to outer sebilis and same thing. at least bathezid watch had some bunk beds. strangely the orcs of norrath seem to have the best supply masters in their strongholds,,,actually looks like an army exists there. but again theres no consistency with the rest of thegame world.</p><p>I thought we were done with rockets and aliens when luckin crashed..no such luck.</p></blockquote><p>The Shadowed Men aren't aliens.  They originated on Norrath.  Stop by the History and Lore boards...  You might learn a thing or two about the world you live in.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p>IMO, the downfall of this game began the day SOE eliminated shard recovery & shared group debt. Back in those "bad" old days, I had less trouble finding groups, & more fun in them. But since then, SOE has gone to great lengths to eliminate the "need" for grouping, by increasingly making it easier & faster to solo for XP & loot, & the game has been increasingly feeling "gutted."</p><p>The downfall continued when SOE neutered Ant, CL, & Nek, & continued its dizzying pace when first Darklight Woods & then Timorous Deep were introduced. After all, who needs to do those dull, boring old zones when you can level to 20 in one afternoon of easy TD questing, then pop over to DLW to finish up the higher level quests there, then hop straight to BBM & ignore the old world entirely?</p><p>Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.</p><p>That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."</p><p>MMOs have been gutted by the "I want it NOW" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[Windowlicker]

<p>The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.</p>

[Nimeesha]

<p>You can break it down to 3 words "World of Warcraft".  Even though you may hate it, WoW has set the standard for the current generation of MMOs.  Unfortunatly, SOE has "dumbed" down EQ2 to try to aquire some of their fanbase.  It's too bad that's what happened, but one can only wonder where EQ2 would be today if they hadn't.  Maybe thriving more than it is now (doubtful), or it may be dead.  Even EQlive has added hireable NPCs to help you do content.  I'm afraid that the superior game (EQ2) has gotten the raw end of the deal with the changes to the MMO world. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p><p>That being said, I am still happy with the game and it provides lots of content for all playstyles.  Sure I wish I saw more people in Qeynos but IMO the Guild Halls were the final nail in that coffin.  Things change, and you either roll with it or find another thing to do with your gaming time.  But I doubt you will find a better MMO than EQ2 no matter how hard you look.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they really only "care about themselves, their own adventure" then they're going to end-up with half-baked, mediocre toons at level cap.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, & it's their own fault, too -- not SOE's.</p><p>I'm sick past my ears of the "plight of the pure soloer" & other such whiney drivel.</p>

[Isoloki]

<p><cite>BladeLore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When I first came to this game my wife would come into the room and listen to Ole Dagorel tell me what it took to become a Warrior or Crusader.  We would both listen to speeches as the NPC's of this game unraveled a story that made us feel included in the eq2 world.  As we worked our way to level 10 we did so with the idea that we would be making choices as to which path our new lives would take.  Crusader or Warrior.</p><p>When I walked the streets of Qeynos the streets were alive with players and npc's alike.  NPC's offered quests and a story and charm and character.  The game was a world of its own.  The game had feel and lore.  The game was a world come alive.</p><p>A story was weaved from the time a player first entered the game and was taken to the isle on the boat.  Tired, hungry and frightened.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out on a new adventure and not sure how it was going to end.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out a pauper.  With NOTHING and that somehow you were going to have to earn your way in the world if you ever wanted to stand out.</p><p>Qeynos or Freeport was all about YOU.  It was about how YOU were going to fit into the society that had been carved out of the shattered lands.  It was how YOU were going to make things just a tad bit better.  It was about how YOU were going to save the day for the citizens as you quested to make the lands, no matter your alignment, a better place.</p><p>The game was about YOUR place in this lands.  NOW the game is about YOU alright.  It is about how fast you can get to level 80.  How fast you can become a master tradeskiller in 9 professions.  It is about raiding and instancing and getting awesome armor.</p><p>Today the cities are empty.  The NPC's are silent.  The charm and the flair and the feel is gone.  Qeynos is a desolate place as if the heart and soul of the town and the game have been ripped from them and they are just waiting for the Overlord to take them into chains and turn them into undead.</p> <p> Because the lands I once loved are gone.  Replaced with instant gratification.  I do not begrudge instances or groups or raids or super armor or the eternal quest for glory in deep dark dungeons.  The only thing I bemoan is that this game has been gutted of its content, feel, flair, panache and lore for the almighty race to level 80.  Just as modern day society is racing at dizzying paces so to is Everquest 2. </p><p>I could be wrong.  But thats my story and Im sticking too it.  You want to bring back customers Sony?  Then bring back the heart and soul of this game.  Somehow, somewhere you got lost as you focused on end game content.  Instead of focusing on the entire game you focused on just one aspect of it.  End game.  Essentially your saying to your players.  Race to level 80.  YOU WIN.  Game over.</p></blockquote><p>I whole heartily Agree.</p><p>This is not about soloing,grouping, or raiding. It is not about the best gear. (you know, having legendary,fabled, or mythical). It is not about end game.(to me means game over).</p><p>This is about a living world where there are grand adventures to be had. A thriving community in the cities. Players and npc's to interact with in different ways, wether you are just chatting or reading up on lore,or trading etc. Feeling like you mean something to the world, even if it is just for yourself. Exploring the world either alone or with friends. Taking on tough dungeons, not for the loot, but for the fun. Feeling like your outside of the real world... in other words.... IMMERSION.</p><p>Now that has all passed, All most players want is what they think/feel is when the game starts... End Game. Where the best gear is, so they can feel uber. So the game has changed to suit those players. So now the speed to get to level 80 has increased. Instead of taking months to get there you can do in 2 weeks of hard playing (4 hours a night every day for 14 days give or take a few hours). It is no longer about the world. But what gear can I get fast. It is not about the community, it is how much I can parse.</p><p>I don't feel it is SOE's fault for making changes to the game. They are a company trying to make a profit. It is the Players themselves that are ruining the game. There are not enough of us left that want to smell the roses so to speak. Those of us that want a community that just wants to enjoy the world need to start looking else where. It is sad really. Cause this has been such a good world for me since April 2005. But Alas that world is gone. It is time for the next generation of MMOer's. Those that don't care about the wolrd just the ubor loot.</p><p>I wish everyone fun in the way they play Everquest 2.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Nimeesha@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Sure I wish I saw more people in Qeynos but IMO the Guild Halls were the final nail in that coffin.</blockquote><p>Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker (which, honestly, is where 90% of the population in the cities would be found)? Or are you just disappointed that other players are no longer serving as background props to aid you in your own personal sense of "immersion", but really didn't care much about them outside of that context?</p><p>I'm serious. Before guildhalls, how many players were actually "in the city" doing something other than going AFK at the broker or bank? And of those, how many of them did you just strike up a random conversation with them using /say?</p><p>The vast, vast majority of player interaction between strangers in this game happens in global level chat and /tells. Guildhalls haven't changed that. The only thing that has changed is the background scenery of random players standing around in QH or EFP. Now they're just standing around inside their guildhall. Not exactly a huge loss, in my opinion.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nimeesha@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Sure I wish I saw more people in Qeynos but IMO the Guild Halls were the final nail in that coffin.</blockquote><p>Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker</p></blockquote><p>Not often, but to me the point is that with them there, or otherwise running around the city, the cities had an illusion of life.</p><p>Now, they no longer do, & new players coming in may be forgiven for thinking there's nobody else playing.</p><p>I don't think the guild halls should be eliminated -- which is good, because I'm sure they won't be -- & I really like many things about them. But that's not to say I can't look at some of their unintended effects & be a little saddened that things have worked out as they have.</p>

[thephantomposter]

<p>This is kind of interesting timing, my kids have been wanting to play WoW. I can't afford all these subscriptions so I chose EQ2 that my friends play. I decided I would try WoW this weekend, 10 day free trial. I do know some people I could play with, so for my kids I gave it a shot. I really do not like the graphics but I must say I was blown away at the starting areas. Tried 3 of em so far. They were crowded with toons. If I needed help, it was always there, 2 feet away. The dead carcasses from people completing their quests littered the ground. People would help you kill something even if you did not ask and carried on. That part was awsome.</p><p><span><a></a></span>Kordan said : Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker (which, honestly, is where 90% of the population in the cities would be found)? Or are you just disappointed that other players are no longer serving as background props to aid you in your own personal sense of "immersion", but really didn't care much about them outside of that context?</p><p>I think it adds a lot to the game. The difference was amazing! I do not like WoW and I love EQ2 but the experience was night and day. So I would say it is both, a 'background prop' and the interaction. The Cities are dead, when you walk through a city and all you see are NPCs, it does not feel like a mmorpg it feels like Morrowind.</p><p>IMO I think that there should be questing right in the city that has to do with lore. There should be more interaction with NPCs. There should be more racial quests, that is a big part of the lore isn't it? There should be more class quests. I just recently started another toon in FP, it was dead. The crafting tables were empty. What a difference between that and WoW.</p><p>Maybe this a natural progression for mmorpgs? Eventually it is all about endgame?</p><p>I know my post sounds negative but I love EQ2, I will be staying. Eventually I work my way to endgame.</p>

[bryldan]

<p><cite>thephantomposter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is kind of interesting timing, my kids have been wanting to play WoW. I can't afford all these subscriptions so I chose EQ2 that my friends play. I decided I would try WoW this weekend, 10 day free trial. I do know some people I could play with, so for my kids I gave it a shot. I really do not like the graphics but I must say I was blown away at the starting areas. Tried 3 of em so far. They were crowded with toons. If I needed help, it was always there, 2 feet away. The dead carcasses from people completing their quests littered the ground. People would help you kill something even if you did not ask and carried on. That part was awsome.</p><p><span><a></a></span>Kordan said : Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker (which, honestly, is where 90% of the population in the cities would be found)? Or are you just disappointed that other players are no longer serving as background props to aid you in your own personal sense of "immersion", but really didn't care much about them outside of that context?</p><p>I think it adds a lot to the game. The difference was amazing! I do not like WoW and I love EQ2 but the experience was night and day. So I would say it is both, a 'background prop' and the interaction. The Cities are dead, when you walk through a city and all you see are NPCs, it does not feel like a mmorpg it feels like Morrowind.</p><p>IMO I think that there should be questing right in the city that has to do with lore. There should be more interaction with NPCs. There should be more racial quests, that is a big part of the lore isn't it? There should be more class quests. I just recently started another toon in FP, it was dead. The crafting tables were empty. What a difference between that and WoW.</p><p>Maybe this a natural progression for mmorpgs? Eventually it is all about endgame?</p><p>I know my post sounds negative but I love EQ2, I will be staying. Eventually I work my way to endgame.</p></blockquote><p>One of the bigger reasons for this (guild halls aside) is that first off the size of the land is less than a third of EQ2. They have what only 3 starting cities? Compared to 5 i think it is for this game? While there is more that EQ2 could have done better for these cities no matter what guild halls are way better than the negatives. I do not feel immersed whatsoever about ppl being afk in the cities with not a peep from them. Chat channels take all immersion from the game since it concentrates it all there which is a good thing because i would hate to be asking for a group only in the zone i am in lol.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p>yada yada yada</p><p>click</p><p>yada</p><p>click</p><p>Accept Quest?</p><p>Yes already.  I've got 200 AAs to try and fill and this is just 1 of hundreds of quests I got to do.  Immersion was replaced by mindless repetition.  Now go kill 20 orcs and come back to me.</p>

[Giral]

<p>i think the reason eq2 failed is they made the entire game easier, and finaly in rok and now tso have started to introduce a learning curve</p><p>originaly in eq2 you had a self induced learning cuvre wih Shards and real armor damage of reduced stats for each shard lost, and group debt, you learned to play or you learned to die,</p><p>with the removal of shards, and with the decrease in debt, and increased exp rate the game became , well , laughable , and as many have said in forums, " my group died and we all laughed" haha ha ha how wonderous</p><p>now if eq2 had from the start had a better learning curve, and the game slowly got harder as you leveled it would have been amuch more gradual experiance , and the farther and better you got, the harder and tougher the game becomes</p><p>taking a console game as an example, you dont start out with the best weopons, you dont start out fighting boss mobs with 10 difrent attacks, etc,,</p><p>example of how to structure eq2 to get people into the game but keep it always exciting ahead</p><p>level 1 thru 10 , no death penelty , minor debt.</p><p>level 10 thru 20 no death penelty , more debt</p><p>level 20 thru 30 ability to lose 1 spirit shard, normal debt stays the same for rest of the game</p><p>30 thru 40 , can lose 2 shards, and minor decreased stats for each shard lost,</p><p>40 thru 50 can lose 5 shards normal deacreased stats for each shard lost</p><p>50 thru 60, can lose 10 shards, ,decreased stats</p><p>60 thru 70 10 shards , decreased stats, can lose a level is (any masters you have would return to matsre status when you regain level )</p><p>70 thru 80 shards, decreased stats, level loss (any masters lost are gone for good)</p><p>80 thru 90 shards,decrease stats,level loss, and AA Minor Aa exp loss</p><p>90 thru 100 shards,stats,lvl loss,and Normal AA exp loss</p><p>100 thru 110 all of the above , and Minor group debt</p><p> 110 thru 120 all above , normal group debt</p><p>etc,, this gives a feeling of challange, the higher and farther and stronger you get in the game, the tougher,more challanging and dangerous the game becomes, it allws People to get into the game, get up to level 40 + and finaly start feeling some sting for thier mistakes, it pushes people to get better as they go , but gives them the chance to get far enough into the game that they are addicted to it /wink, and it gives a better sense of accomplishment the further into the game you get , you know that level 80 is 100 times Rsikier then level 1 thru 40 </p><p> Risk Vs reward is gone from EQ2 , you risk nothing in eq2 except some coin for repairs <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /> there is no adreniline rush , there is no nail bitting fear that if you fail you lose a corpse, get major debt,that you will have to grind for hours to make up that debt,no fear of De-leveling , etc,,,</p><p>anyone that played other mmo's or even eq2 at release knows the Rush of beating a hard encounter at the bottom of a dungeon, you know becuase you wiped time and again trying to get to the bottom and had to crawl back with reduced stats to get your shards, you know becuase if you died you got serious debt, and you know that Exp was much harder raise, but thru it all when you finaly were geared enough and in a good enough group and you cleared that zone you felt a sense accomplishment at finaly making it .,  now Pfft zones are cleared in 15 minutes, people and groups die and wipe all the time, rewards drop like candy.</p><p> o well off to make my own challanges /locks level, /removes gear , says in lvl chat "  naked tank looking for group "</p>

[troodon]

<p><cite>Logannx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I thought we were done with rockets and aliens when luckin crashed..no such luck.</p></blockquote><p>QFE, I can't stand it.</p>

[Lilj]

<p><cite>bryldan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One of the bigger reasons for this (guild halls aside) is that first off the size of the land is less than a third of EQ2. They have what only 3 starting cities? Compared to 5 i think it is for this game?</p></blockquote><p>Now, I'm not an expert on WoW, but I think there are 4 starting cities per side (Alliance and Horde), so they have 8 starting cities compared to our 5.</p><p>If I'm wrong, I hope someone will let me know. But I seem to remember 4 for the Alliance side (elf, gnome/dwarf,human and dranaei), when I tried the trial.</p><p>Just as a minor nit, that's all.</p>

[Snowdonia]

<p><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.</p></blockquote><p>Cities never had "life", they had broker/bank campers. I'm personally glad that I can run to the FP collector now without my FPS slowing down to a crawl passing the broker and having to wade through a ton of broker campers to get there.</p>

[Amise]

<p><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.</p></blockquote><p>Rubbish. The only zones that were ever full of life, after the first year or so of the game, were the ones with brokers and bankers. Most of the others you'd be lucky to see an occasional person in there besides yourself.</p>

[greenmantle]

<p><cite>thephantomposter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is kind of interesting timing, my kids have been wanting to play WoW. I can't afford all these subscriptions so I chose EQ2 that my friends play. I decided I would try WoW this weekend, 10 day free trial. I do know some people I could play with, so for my kids I gave it a shot. I really do not like the graphics but I must say I was blown away at the starting areas. Tried 3 of em so far. <strong>They were crowded with toons</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>Some times you want quality not quantity, i met more jerks per pixel in wow that any other game i have tried.</p><p>I have to agree with the OP i miss the old style starter quests but then i miss having a level 5 ranger standing outside the city gates wondering what there is to life once your tired of selling rat tails to boomba.</p><p>The game you started will always be special, a bit like waking up after 20 years of marriage, remembering version 1.0 and wondering where all the updates came from.</p>

[psisto]

<p>Ive never actually witnessed "the olden days" of eq2, but a lot of the things I read did seem very nice to me, like the more complex crafting et all.</p><p>What eq2 imho could use would be a total revamp and rebalance of the pre-80 content. there are places noone visits, like serpent sewer, or other  low-end zones. people outlevel them before they get anything out of it, and in the face of far better zones like TD, the fun of freeport/queynos fades in comparison. Im not saying FP is bad, but I felt once I walked out into the commonlands, i felt a) totally and utterly lost, and b) like in a true desert. the first couple hundred feet past the city gate are nothing like bare textured, empty hills. no players/npc/mobs/grass/anything. TD however was a beautifully constructed place, which has a solid, compelling story to lead the player through the zone, and advance them quickly.</p><p>In my opinion, the old content needs to be made more interesting and worthwhile, imho by slowing down exp gain. the race to 80 is nice and all, but its the journey that should be fun. and starting in FP compared to TD is considerably /less/ fun, you really notice the older zones, and the often obsolete loot (like chickenbane.. I wonder if /anyone/ ever uses that quest reward...).</p><p>The crafting system is monotonous and feels bolted on for many professions, if not downright obsolete for a good portion of its content (MC gear for lower levels = no reason to buy anymore, and handcrafted gear is best sold to the fuel merchant, because I sure cant get it to sell for anything much or within the course of a month. I still have stuff priced /just/ above the fuel merchant´s pay in my broker cratest, sitting there for months on end). It needs a new approach to tie it in better with the dropped loot, and provide alternate gear, not necessarily superior. even matched, but different.</p><p>Giving people better means of trafficking would be nice too. make people work for their getting places, by questing for the transport abilities, but give them something worthwhile in the end. for example getting around in faydwer is a pain, mostly, and I would love long-range gryphon stations, which you would have to discover, but could use to get around a tad bit faster.</p><p>Also more sensible quest loot would be nice. options for small groups, duo/trio instances which give better stuff than solo playing, but worse than full grouping. a proper balance for  solo/small group/group/raid loot. maybe uncommon/treasured/legendary/fabled, in that order, with the occassional treasured for solo, legendary for duo, etc, to toss players a bone every now and then.</p><p>There is a lot that can be done, and imho TD is a very nice starter zone. there just needs to be better early-on content, and slower leveling pace, but still at a rate where you can progress without grinding in between quests. a story to lead you through levels, and by picking zones and factions, you get to influence that story and take your way.</p><p>The reason people are rushed to 80 is a) because noone bothers with low-end content anymore, and b) because low-end content is highly underpowered in comparison to high-end rewards. these issues can and should be adressed, after all the bolted-on content from expansions and tweakings done for those expansions, I think its time to step back, look at the whole picture, and make it all fit together in one big move, to obtain a coherent, complete game, which has the same density of content throughout its course, and provides a smooth learning curve</p>

[BladeLo]

<p> 1. Cities in eq2 are humongous thus the empty feel. I remember hanging out at the Farm house in Antonica when I was a noob and thinking this is really kewl.  If it just had a broker, a banker, email and the stuff that the vendors sold were really needed by new players then it would be perfect.</p><p>2. Players have huge 36 slot boxes time 6 thus they hardly ever have to unload at a vendor.  When they call back to the Guild hall its almost an afterthought.  Quest payments are outrageous.  You can run thru TD have a complete set of armor, and enough cash to buy 16 slot bags and your all set by the end of the second day.   EQ2 gives you speed buffs and free carpets and easy...easy...easy.  No challenge.  No sense of accomplishment.  No feeling as if you have worked for something........its given to you.</p><p>3. Travel is STar Trekie.  Scotty Beam me up cause I dont want to spend 2 minutes traveling anywhere.  I want it and I want if now.  Workers sledge mallet, attack a guard poof your in JW.  Travel Amenities in GH's are insta port to whereever you want to go.</p><p>4. The reason other games have people in cities is because you are rewarded for being in them.  Example would be WoW's resting bonus for spending time in a city.  You can actually fish in your home city, thus getting XP while working a skill and having a reason for being inside of the city.</p><p>5. Crafting is so easy now with the Guild Halls.  My guild had 15,000 bristled pelts in their big lock box.  You just walked up to a crafting station and as long as you had the fuel you could start crafting and the components were taken from the big lock box.  Hell you dont even have to gather anymore........They do that for you and of course rares are pointless now because advancing almost negates needing MC armor now because you can literally fly thru a tier in one day......perhaps 2 days if your lazy.</p><p>6. Someone mentioned that after the 4th or the 5th time thru you dont want to see the content you just want to be done with it................BINGO...........and here is the problem in a nut shell.  Sony played to an ever diminishing player base to keep them happy when in reality they should have been playing to the millions of new players that come online every year. </p><p>EQ2 is a good game.  It could be so much better.  The die is cast.  They have chosen their poison and their poison is to focus on end game material by giving the 100 players who are willing to grind raid zones everything they always wanted.  Uber equiptment.  Funny thing I was talking to a fabled out raider the other day and he told me......I come to eq2 to raid.  I go to WoW to have fun.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<p><cite>BladeLore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Today the cities are empty.</p></blockquote><p>Guild Halls.</p><p>Join a guild.. you'll find a thriving portal of activity. Has nothing to do with level 80, Raids, End Game, etc. Most players are in guilds. Guild Halls offer everything a city has to offer without the necessity of travel. So, we're all huddled away in our guild halls.</p>

[Kendricke]

<p><cite>Giralus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> i think the reason eq2 failed</p></blockquote><p>It failed?  I just had 10 former guildmates log in within the past three weeks to start playing again.  Our activity levels are way, way up in my guild.  Every night - even on our raid nights - we're forming at LEAST three or four instance groups. </p><p>The studio just released their fifth full expansion in as many years.  Everquest I celebrates it's TENTH year this year.  Perhaps your definition of "failed" differs from mine. </p>

[Giral]

<p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Giralus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> i think the reason eq2 failed</p></blockquote><p>It failed?  I just had 10 former guildmates log in within the past three weeks to start playing again.  Our activity levels are way, way up in my guild.  Every night - even on our raid nights - we're forming at LEAST three or four instance groups. </p><p>The studio just released their fifth full expansion in as many years.  Everquest I celebrates it's TENTH year this year.  Perhaps your definition of "failed" differs from mine. </p></blockquote><p>yeah but you didn't include the rest of the line that adds to the point you made of returning players , here let me post it all for you  { i think the reason eq2 failed is they made the entire game easier, and finaly in rok and now tso have started to introduce a learning curve }</p><p>    the Op was talking about the game from release and how it had a more indepth ,passionate, living breathing realm to it, i added my thoughts on why it Failed with making the game easier and easier and easier since DOF  (Why did all those Old guildies and Freinds Leave Eq2? if it has been such a great game since DOF ? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> </p><p> look they made ROk and TSO harder and Rok was the best selling expansion yet, and with TSO i also have seen a Bunch of people resubscribe,,, Lore based Expansion,<-- isnt that what the op said starting out there was a Story line, a sense of you bieng a miniscule dot in the game and being inticed to joinig a city to add your personal help .</p><p>and the point i was making was that the game all along should have been getting progressively harder, teaching people as they level, leting them get into the game but at the same time making them want to play better , and working in the risk vs rewrad over time , so the farther you go, the higher you get, the more challange will always await you  ( didnt have to be with My model of how to achiev it was just an example of one way )  but why are poeple returning when the game has become Harder ?  becuase Risk vs reward and challanging gameplay is what people want , even the poeple that dont know it ; )</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Giralus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>... and the point i was making was that the game all along should have been getting progressively harder, teaching people as they level, leting them get into the game but at the same time making them want to play better ...</blockquote><p>I do agree that this is a legitimate problem that SOE has with how the game works now. Level 1-70 is basically trivial unless you go out of your way to make it more difficult/slower to progress. Then newer players hit T8 and get clotheslined by the increased difficulty. Of course, if they did address this, I suspect there would be howls of protest from the casual soloers.</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.</p></blockquote><p>Najena, formerly one of the top populated servers in the first year of release, has been a pre 60 or 70 wasteland far longer than the guildhall update. I had the free summer special since what...June and it was dead then. I paid for 30 days time card to give it chance to this expansion. Still dead. I have seen a total of 5 inquiries on grouping for TSO in the 50s. People keep putting the blame on guildhalls when people haven't been around for a much longer time.</p><p>Many people I come across that are not 70+ are getting tired of the SoloQuest to 70 or 80 in order to group.</p><p>Fortunately a couple days ago I had fun in that other game (in a group for a few hours) that has a quest line that sometimes requires you to get some help and it tells a great story, has great atmosphere, great music / background sounds for relaxing in the proper locations, etc....</p><p>Lord of the Rings Online.</p><p>Sure it has easy solo stuff too, but you certainly are challenged in the book quests where grouping is required.</p><p>I can't in good conscience spend $43 on this expansion when the money can be better served elsewhere. It just isn't worth it. The more I see time spent in the order of over 6 months of trying to get groups in the frequency I used to (Najena just about became like Venekor, the deserted pvp server, in trying to get groups), I can't see continuing to pay for a subscription to this game as I can't afford to transfer all my pve characters to an active (non top-heavy) server. I left feedback after stopping my one month subscription stating that I have just about abandoned my 70 on Venekor (been 70 for a year, and the 6ish months of trying to get a group there I have had ONE 30-minute group during the free play time given to me by SOE where I experienced that 30 minutes in KC).</p><p>I used to love this game but all the hair-pulling frustration I have experienced with the constant loneliness pre 60 (first char main was stuck at 59 since DOF, stopped, came back, LFG, no groups, stopped, came back, LFG no groups...screw this) is about to break me.</p><p>This is a warning to new people. If you can't afford the time and money to keep up with the expansions and the server population has too few new players coming in at the bottom, you may wish to rethink playing and research other server population spreads. One indication of the health of the mid-level population is the HUGE amount of rares, master crafted, and fabled items for these levels. I have tons of 20-40 masters that sit on my characters' displays never to be sold. They are dipping down to the 30g range for level 40 masters. I see level 60 masters for just 2-3p. The experience changes ruin the mc market as who wants to buy mc when you outgrow it so fast (if you don't lock down your experience that is).</p><p> I once mentioned this to guildmates... I would like to see a fantasy MMOG that is like Eve Online in some ways. You could have some open endedness. Something like having a contract system where players can hire other players to do work in exchange for goods/services/payment...More open economy like Eve Online. Mining is the backbone of this game. Ships and parts require minerals. Once things are destroyed in Eve Online, they are gone for good. EQ II tries to address this with attuning but you can always repair your gear. It never breaks. You have no reason to see a player for goods once you buy for your 'tier'.  Eve has a mediocre pve system with npcs and missions. This 'next gen' fantasy mmo could have a little more robust npc quest system in combination with the open-endedness of player created and run scenarios.</p><p>I remember all the hype in the beginning of this game about having 'big name actors' doing voice overs for it. Now you hardly hear them, if at all (must stand in front of their statues or if you have the original items like the coin that talks with Heather Graham as Antonia Bayle).</p><p>I was shocked the first time I did the solo quest line in EF and just for taking a message to the second camp I am awarded a legendary charm??!! SOE please add another few solo steps for my fabled item then...It is nice, but it reflects how much this game has changed. I remember how the woods in Antonica were filled with heroic stags, wardens, and gnolls. There should have been a better progression. Many things that used to be epicx2 are now heroic. Things that used to be heroic are now solo. The game SHOULD have had some mix then leaning to more heroic the higher level you went. I was shocked several weeks ago going down to the Crypt of Betrayal to find like 98% of that zone is now solo. Only the skeleton fury, the quest spawned named minotaur, and a few static named spots are heroic.</p><p>Regarding shadowmen: They have existed since EQ1. They are not aliens...unless you are talking about something else (have you seen the original artwork for what Rodcet Nife looks like? Just look at the temple from EQ 1).</p><p>I see a problem with the mc gear today too. I see lvl 32 gear that surpasses legendary or even legendary HQs that are 10-20 levels higher than it. This is just wrong...</p>

[Phaith]

<p>The problem seems to be that a lot of people are finding it difficult to get groups at lower levels.  The solution that SOE has taken is to make the lower tiers easier to solo.  If there are fewer players at these levels I don't see how making the mobs epic again will help players.</p><p>I've read a lot of these threads about how barren the lower tiers are and how difficult it is to get a group.  There seem to be a lot of people agreeing which suggests that is should be a bit easier to find others.  Recently I've managed to get groups by checking the lfm list, although admittedly this list can be empty too.  I've also got people willing to help out just by shouting out myself.  I got sick of waiting for the players to come to me so I got my name out there.  I've also mentored a lot recently just to get any group and take away the barren feeling of some zones.</p><p>I agree that cities are ghost towns here.  In WoW, for all it's faults, the main cities are still vibrant.  Some are dead but the main couple are thriving.  This is mostly because Blizzard have left some services out of the expansion cities.  To auction off your goods or train your skills you have to go home.  The end result is that Stormwind, the human capital, is heaving at all hours.  And yes there are players there doing more than just camping at the auction house, there is all kinds of stuff going on.  I'm not here to defend their player base as across the board EQ2's is more mature, but there are many friendly, funny, helpful people who spend hours at the cities.</p><p>I think Sony should make a lot of content exclusive to 1 or 2  capital cities and get them busy again, and make them 1 zone too.  Imagine if the only place to bank was in NQ or the only crafting hall was in SQ right next to one of only 3 or 4 brokers in the entire world.  This would make it a hub of activity and chat.  Lore events could be run there more frequently.  Guilds could recruit there face to face.  Something for everyone I think.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Phaith@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I agree that cities are ghost towns here.  In WoW, for all it's faults, the main cities are still vibrant.  Some are dead but the main couple are thriving.  This is mostly because Blizzard have left some services out of the expansion cities.  To auction off your goods or train your skills you have to go home.  The end result is that Stormwind, the human capital, is heaving at all hours.  And yes there are players there doing more than just camping at the auction house, there is all kinds of stuff going on. </blockquote><p>Besides standing around in the AH, raiders dueling each other and people having simulated sex in the fountain, exactly what other "heaving stuff" goes on Stormwind? I'm sorry, having a naked guy standing around using the /dance emote to thrust his hips while female characters are on their knees in front of him doesn't exactly do much for my "immersion" in the WoW experience. But it's there, in spades.</p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they really only "care about themselves, their own adventure" then they're going to end-up with half-baked, mediocre toons at level cap.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, & it's their own fault, too -- not SOE's.</p><p>I'm sick past my ears of the "plight of the pure soloer" & other such whiney drivel.</p></blockquote><p>Then stop reading the boards.</p><p>Lots of people are sick of hearing whiney drivel about how the game would actually be better with shared debt (which was one of the all-time dumbest game mechanics in history).</p>

[Brook]

<p><cite>Khayleigh@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they really only "care about themselves, their own adventure" then they're going to end-up with half-baked, mediocre toons at level cap.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, & it's their own fault, too -- not SOE's.</p><p>I'm sick past my ears of the "plight of the pure soloer" & other such whiney drivel.</p></blockquote><p>Then stop reading the boards.</p><p>Lots of people are sick of hearing whiney drivel about how the game would actually be better with shared debt (which was one of the all-time dumbest game mechanics in history).</p></blockquote><p>I think shard runs were alot of fun, in fact it was one of the things that atracted me to the game in the first place. I was very sad they got removed.</p><p>I agree with the Op about the state of the game, and its unfortunate that SOE will just ignore this post like it isnt even here.</p><p>I still have fun in the game, but most of the freinds I made are long gone to different games because of the watering down of this one. I keep hanging in there hoping that one day I will sign on and find out SOE opened a classic server for those of us that dont really care for the I want everything handed to me with little to no effort crowd.</p><p>With the changes that have been made to the game the past couple of years, I am starting to think that the origional dev team has left the building and the future of Norath is in the hands of noobs.</p><p>plz excuse the spelling</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Khayleigh@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then stop reading the boards.</p></blockquote><p>It's ironic that you write this, & then pop off about how "many people" are equally sick of other complaints. I suppose we should all stop reading the boards, then? Take your own advice, if you're so irritated? Don't bother to respond?</p><p>Pot-meet-kettle, much? Isn't it wonderful that we're both whining about whining? Don't you just LOVE the 'Net?</p><p>I'll note, however, that while I did whine about whiners, I at least didn't stoop so low as to tell them not to read the forums.</p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>Coming from a casual player point of view I can tell you what has caused the decline of the game is the exit of the casual player, probably to WOW or some other easier to play game.</p><p>The problem really was exacerbated with ROK, with it's solo centric play style.  What happened is that the casual players were more inclined to solo, and the fact that there was far more experience and AA in soloing didn't make it any easier.  So you've got the solo player who only has the time or inclination to log on for a couple of hours, half of that time would be eaten up by actually finding a group and making it out to whatever dungeon.  In stark opposition to this are the hardcore players who are on all the time, spend multiple hours per week or even day raiding, and have all the best equipment.  Here's where the rift started.  Now to get into some ROK higher end content or raids you had to have just the right equipment, just the right masters, etc etc otherwise you would get your butt kicked, your healer wouldn't heal well enough, your tank wouldn't mitigate or manage aggro well enough, etc etc etc.</p><p>Now with TSO this rift has become extremely apparent.  Try taking a toon that is equipped with a combination of MC equipment, drops from ROK solo quests and a smattering of dungeon drops and take them into some of these dungeons, or gasp...raids.  You see a distinct difference in the performance of someone decked out with a mythical and raid equipment as opposed to the casual player.  The rift continues to grow.</p><p>Now I'm NOT taking anything away from the hardcore player at all, I respect them and wish I had the time, but I don't.  I know the hardcore will jump in any minute and say this is the way it should be, well ok I don't disagree with you, but you must be prepared to live in this empty world.  I'm just stating what I see on a daily basis when I log on, as the OP mentioned.  The casual players who were kept somewhat content with solo content were never fully content as they lacked a lot of group content as the level of difficulty and requirements rose.  Now enter TSO and it leaves the casual player with LESS to do than before.  This is why there is a mass exodus to the "easier" games, but still a core of hardcore players at level 80.</p><p>I live Everquest 2, I have tried most of the other games and keep coming back.  But I sorely miss the days of plenty of casual players and PUGs.  The soloing in ROK is about as satisfying as any single player RPG like oblivion or Gothic so sometimes I wonder why log on?  Most of my friends are gone, my guild which is one of the largest on the server is lucky to have 10-12 members on at the absolute peak times, etc etc.</p><p>Compound this with Sony's absolute lack of marketing, I mean absolute LACK and you can see little incentive for casual players to continue to log on, or new players to go past their free month.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now with TSO this rift has become extremely apparent.  Try taking a toon that is equipped with a combination of MC equipment, drops from ROK solo quests and a smattering of dungeon drops and take them into some of these dungeons, or gasp...raids.  You see a distinct difference in the performance of someone decked out with a mythical and raid equipment as opposed to the casual player.  The rift continues to grow.</p></blockquote><p>It is a horizontal expansion.  The expectation is you have one to gear for the other.</p><p>Here are some valid progression paths:RoK Raids -> TSO RaidsRoK Soloquest -> RoK Instances -> TSO Instances -> TSO RaidsRoK Soloquest -> TSO Soloquest -> TSO Instances -> Even more TSO Instances -> TSO Raids</p><p>Trying to go RoK Soloqiest -> TSO Instances and skiping one of the 2 progression options is going to yeild less than spectacular results.  I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone...</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now to get into some ROK higher end content or raids you had to have just the right equipment, just the right masters, etc etc otherwise you would get your butt kicked, your healer wouldn't heal well enough, your tank wouldn't mitigate or manage aggro well enough, etc etc etc.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #339966;">Which "ROK higher end content" are you referring to? What you're saying might be accurate if you're talking about VP raids, but it's not -- from my experience -- true of any of the single group instances.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #339966;">For example, I didn't get my first t8 Master CA until my second run-through of RE2, by which time I'd already been in groups that had cleared every t8 ROK instance. I didn't get Carotid Cutter -- which is still my one of my only two pieces of Fabled -- until after I got that Master CA. The people I grouped with weren't fully decked out, either. Even today, I still don't have my Fabled epic, I still only have 1 Master CA, & I still only have 2 pieces of Fabled gear. I've still never been to VP -- I don't even have access to it -- & I've only raided SoH, Thuuga, Pawbuster, PR, & Kor-Sha. We weren't even successful on the PR & Kor-Sha raids, &  I've never received any ROK raid loots. Yet, despite that ...</span></strong></p><p>Now with TSO this rift has become extremely apparent.  Try taking a toon that is equipped with a combination of MC equipment, drops from ROK solo quests and a smattering of dungeon drops and take them into some of these dungeons, or gasp...raids.  You see a distinct difference in the performance of someone decked out with a mythical and raid equipment as opposed to the casual player.  The rift continues to grow.</p><strong><span style="color: #339966;">I've done 4 TSO instances so far. One of them, we failed to clear, but we still managed to get the shard. Only one mythical equipped character was involved in these trips. The others were with people who have gear roughly equal to my own, perhaps a bit better. Yet, we succeeded just fine. So, from my point of view, I'm not even seeing this "rift" you're talking about, much less watching it grow.</span></strong></blockquote><p>I do, however, totally agree with you that SOE needs to do something to market this wonderful game. Last night, I saw 2 different WoW commercials in just a little over 2 hours of TV time. EQ2 commercials? Do such things exist? Does SOE even <strong>have</strong> a marketing department that works on EQ2?</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><strong><span style="color: #339966;"></span></strong></blockquote><p>I do, however, totally agree with you that SOE needs to do something to market this wonderful game. Last night, I saw 2 different WoW commercials in just a little over 2 hours of TV time. EQ2 commercials? Do such things exist? Does SOE even <strong>have</strong> a marketing department that works on EQ2?</p></blockquote><p>In my experience they have 1 marketing intern for all SoE titles.</p><p>Or atleast, thats the job performance they aspire to.</p>

[Gilasil]

<p>Yea I was there in the "olden days."  I think you're looking at the old days through rose colored glasses as they say.  I played EQ2 for about six months after launch and quit.  Having to group to do every little thing was just too much.  Gad I hated that LFG crap.  I often grouped with friends which avoided the LFG crap but then I had to play with them in lock step in order for us to all be at the same places in our quests. </p><p>And the shard recovery was NOT fun.  Better then corpse recovery but not by much.</p><p>What I remember MOST fondly about the "old days" is the graphics.  I was blown away by them.  And actually being able to put away my weapon when not fighting.  All that's still there.  We're used to it now but it blew me away when I first started playing.  If you've forgotten the quantum leap between EQ1 and EQ2, go log onto EQ1.  If you're like me you'll be amazed you spent so much time in that game.</p><p>As far as I"m concerned the game is much better now.  I wouldn't be here if it hadn't changed.  If they changed it back I'd quit.</p><p>WoW got things right from the get go.  Soloability.   Lighter death penalty.  Those are dirty words with a lot of people here but they sure made a difference.  EQ2 had to run to catch up.  They did but by then the damage was done.  Of course the fact that millions had played Warcraft whereas only a few hundred thousand had played Everquest probably didn't hurt WoW in the slightest.  Even now everyone has heard of WoW but many people have never heard of EQ2.</p><p>Yea I'd like to see cities more life too but for that you need to draw people in.  Perhaps they could have more quests take place in the cities.  But having everyone clustered around the broker does not add character.  It only adds lag.</p><p>P.S.  There was one other character adder in the old days -- every NPC had a voice.  My understanding though is that it made it very hard for the devs to add stuff since every single NPC line had to be scripted for some voice actor.  Since the voices for the leaders of Qeynos and Freeport were spoken by well known actors (can't remember who they were now) that basically meant those two very important characters could never say anything more in the game then they did at launch.  Talk about limiting plot.   I remember posting at the time that I'd rather have more content without voice.  I still believe that.</p>

[Elebu]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p><strong>8<snip>8</strong></p><p>MMOs have been <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">gutted</span> <strong>redefined</strong> by the "I <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">want it NOW</span><strong> have a job</strong>" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Fixed.  You're welcome.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Elebu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p><strong>88</strong></p><p>MMOs have been <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">gutted</span> <strong>redefined</strong> by the "I <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">want it NOW</span><strong> have a job</strong>" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Fixed.  You're welcome.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed what? Where? I see you made cosmetic changes, but simply saying "fixed" is meaningless. You could, for example, see fit to provide some content that explains your "fix", especially since it's not apparent what you think you did.</p>

[Ciara52]

<p>I've not been here that long but it is different.  TD is so easy to level in, I know I lvled a toon there.  The problem I found though was that I did not know my character as well as I knew how to play the one I leveled in Freeport.</p><p>Everything went so fast I had a level 20 Swashi I didn't know really what to do with her.  So I went to Nek and am currently doing the quests there.  I"m having fun with her and learning to play.  My Conj and Necro were leveled in the old worlds and I know them the best.  My warlock and monk I am doing the same now - going to ferrott and Everfrost. I'm not in a hurry -  hurrying to 80 which I am not at almost made me quit. </p><p>Oh yes I have friends who  rushed and leveled, that's what they wanted and that's fine.   I'm finally finding the joy I had last year and don't intend to lose it.</p><p>I forgot as others have said that the journey is fun and also regardless of changes you do make the game good or bad for yourself. </p><p>Guild halls? well no comment as I am better off not saying a word.</p><p>End of the day -  I want to enjoy my time and maybe I'll never see Mistmoore, Unrest etc like I wanted to but I will enjoy what I can.  I don't want to moan and groan because life really is to short. </p><p>I will say only thank you for Norrath  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Logan]

<p>I actually wasn't referring to the shadowed men when I said I thought were done with aliens and robots. I was referring to the ravasect in KoS. Im fine with shadowed men and different planes.</p><p>I very much try to make the game my own experience. I avoid the bonemire as much as possible..except a trip or 2 to HoF because its fantastic. I stay away from steamfront and ak'anon unless im dragged kicking and screaming by guildies. Same with rivervale and enchanted lands but thats more from halfling hate. The one thing I cant get around is using that stupid cannon at the start of moors of ykesha. I almost want to power level a mage high enough to get coh then park him on the other side so I dont have to use that stupid gimmick that belongs in super mario not in eq2.</p><p>I do miss the lvl 20 class missions. I enjoyed them on all my characters. It would be so unbelievebly awesome if there was a game update or expansion pack or something that introduced a signature quest that was unique to each class. Yes I know tons of work but it would be rgeat to be able to sink into being an assassin rather than working on my parse even for a short quest line. Even fluff rewards would be fine.</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p>IMO, the downfall of this game began the day SOE eliminated shard recovery & shared group debt. Back in those "bad" old days, I had less trouble finding groups, & more fun in them. But since then, SOE has gone to great lengths to eliminate the "need" for grouping, by increasingly making it easier & faster to solo for XP & loot, & the game has been increasingly feeling "gutted."</p><p>The downfall continued when SOE neutered Ant, CL, & Nek, & continued its dizzying pace when first Darklight Woods & then Timorous Deep were introduced. After all, who needs to do those dull, boring old zones when you can level to 20 in one afternoon of easy TD questing, then pop over to DLW to finish up the higher level quests there, then hop straight to BBM & ignore the old world entirely?</p><p>Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.</p><p>That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."</p><p>MMOs have been gutted by the "I want it NOW" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I have nothing to say other than listen to this man.......he speakest teh truth!</p><p>(well said Flaye)</p>

[Kendricke]

<p>I log in each day within my guild's hall.  Almost immediately I'm surrounded by several guildmates who are either hard at work on tradeskilling, checking out our broker, or working on a training dummy in the courtyard trying to figure out which gear set works better for them.</p><p>We form up groups and mend, hit the guildbank for potions and temporary adornments, and pick up some status signets while someone rushes out to plant a flag near our next dungeon.  We move to the dungeon and spend time together joking around while blasting through one dungeon after another.</p><p>I've grouped with my guildmates - my friends - more in the past few weeks than I have in the past year (even counting epics).  Last night, we had almost 40 of us within our guildhall at the same time for a short event.  That's right - nearly fourty guildmates all in ceremonial white and purple armors, all flying our guildcloaks. </p><p>If you're feeling that the Shattered Lands are a lonely place, you need to join one of Norrath's many guilds. </p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Khayleigh@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then stop reading the boards.</p></blockquote><p>It's ironic that you write this, & then pop off about how "many people" are equally sick of other complaints. I suppose we should all stop reading the boards, then? Take your own advice, if you're so irritated? Don't bother to respond?</p><p>Pot-meet-kettle, much? Isn't it wonderful that we're both whining about whining? Don't you just LOVE the 'Net?</p><p>I'll note, however, that while I did whine about whiners, I at least didn't stoop so low as to tell them not to read the forums.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah well Khayleigh is well known for having a low tolerance threshold for other peoples' opinions.</p><p>I totally agreed with the OP and your succinct impressions only served to encapsulate the frustration many of us have with the game Flaye. Khayleigh has his ideas and good luck to him, however this thread only goes to show there is still a vocal element that would prefer a little more circumspection by the programmers when designing the road map for the remainder of the life of this game.</p>

[scruffylookin]

<p>The problem with EQ2 (and gaming in general) is that there is no longer a defined playerbase. The range of people that like this game vary to staggering degrees. I don't envy SOE or any game developer when they're trying to develop their product to be well liked by as many folks as possible.</p><p>When I first play EQ1, the people there had different personalites, of course. There were nice people, mean people, smart people, and dumb people. However, there were several connecting threads. Odds are, in EQ1 if I mentioned Drizzt, the person I was speaking to would know who he is. Also (sadly) there weren't many women playing, and the women that were playing were generally known as "geek goddesses" (a phrase my wife loved, being one of those women). The fact that the phrase "EQ Widow" was so common shows that it wasn't a game that bothered marketing to women. Also, there were very few kids playing.</p><p>Back in those days, the devs could ask themselves, "What does our playerbase really want?" and it wasn't hard to come up with an answer that was--more or less--accurate.</p><p>Today, MMO's have grown to the point that those cliches or marketing groups are no longer applicable. Men play this game. Women play this game. Adults play this game. Kids play this game. People that work 45 hours a week play this game and people that don't have jobs play this game. People that can scrape by an hour a day play, and people that can pull off 4 hours a day play. Husbands and wives enjoy these games along side people that don't personally know anyone in-game. Computers are as common as TVs and 15 bucks a month isn't hard to pull off.</p><p>I see several posts that are usually from the people that played back when there was a specific arch-type that played these games... and they feel like their game has been taken away from them. Don't discount that feeling. It's powerful. It's like a "secret place" that was discovered by all the kids in the neighborhood, and now it's just a playground. That's a crappy feeling.</p><p>However, that does not mean the other playstyles aren't welcome here. Those other playstyles are what keep this game afloat. Everyone together brings in enough money to get expansions and have a great dev team.</p><p>The problem comes with the content. The devs can no longer say, "What would our playerbase like?" because that playerbase is dramatically varied. Odds are, no matter what is added, some will love it and some will hate it.</p><p>The end result of this is a game that is a little more vanilla than it used to be. But let's not over-state that. It's a little more vanilla and it's a little easier... sure... but I personally think that SOE has done a very good job of finding a middle ground that reaches all playstyles. There's raid content and group content and solo content.</p><p>Bottom line: MMOs have evolved into something new and something that is significantly more mainstream. As gamers, we have a choice: We can evolve with it or we can find a game that still caters to our specific niche. I'm not saying "If you don't like it, leave." I want everyone here to stay here. I'm just saying that MMOs are not going back to those early EQ1 days. We're no longer a relatively small group of like-minded folks. Now we're a huge group of varied folks that happen to enjoy the same game. I think we should cut SOE a little slack for trying to evolve the game to meet the new MMO standards.</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p><cite>Elebu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p><strong>88</strong></p><p>MMOs have been <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">gutted</span> <strong>redefined</strong> by the "I <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">want it NOW</span><strong> have a job</strong>" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Fixed.  You're welcome.</p></blockquote><p>Are you suggesting that it is only the previous generation of gamers that play this game or that younger players require a simpler more manageable way of playing MMOs?</p><p>Surely not.</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Almost immediately I'm surrounded by several guildmates who are either hard at work on tradeskilling....</p></blockquote><p>Tradeskilling in a guild hall is a nightmare of lag and usually only undertaken by those for whom the harvester bot is their only source of raw materials.</p>

[Elebu]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elebu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p><strong>88</strong></p><p>MMOs have been <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">gutted</span> <strong>redefined</strong> by the "I <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">want it NOW</span><strong> have a job</strong>" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Fixed.  You're welcome.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed what? Where? I see you made cosmetic changes, but simply saying "fixed" is meaningless. You could, for example, see fit to provide some content that explains your "fix", especially since it's not apparent what you think you did.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed your over-used generalization of course.  MMO's have been redefined by people like me, who work a job and don't want it "now" necessarily, but sometime BEFORE I"M 90.  Dig?</p><p>You ack'd your opinion "is & will continue to be highly unpopular".  Why so defensive?</p><p>Oh that's right, I don't care.</p>

[Kendricke]

<p><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Almost immediately I'm surrounded by several guildmates who are either hard at work on tradeskilling....</p></blockquote><p>Tradeskilling in a guild hall is a nightmare of lag and usually only undertaken by those for whom the harvester bot is their only source of raw materials.</p></blockquote><p>If you say so.</p>

[Kendricke]

<p><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem with EQ2 (and gaming in general) is that there is no longer a defined playerbase. The range of people that like this game vary to staggering degrees. I don't envy SOE or any game developer when they're trying to develop their product to be well liked by as many folks as possible.</p><p>When I first play EQ1, the people there had different personalites, of course. There were nice people, mean people, smart people, and dumb people. However, there were several connecting threads. Odds are, in EQ1 if I mentioned Drizzt, the person I was speaking to would know who he is. Also (sadly) there weren't many women playing, and the women that were playing were generally known as "geek goddesses" (a phrase my wife loved, being one of those women). The fact that the phrase "EQ Widow" was so common shows that it wasn't a game that bothered marketing to women. Also, there were very few kids playing.</p><p>Back in those days, the devs could ask themselves, "What does our playerbase really want?" and it wasn't hard to come up with an answer that was--more or less--accurate.</p><p>Today, MMO's have grown to the point that those cliches or marketing groups are no longer applicable. Men play this game. Women play this game. Adults play this game. Kids play this game. People that work 45 hours a week play this game and people that don't have jobs play this game. People that can scrape by an hour a day play, and people that can pull off 4 hours a day play. Husbands and wives enjoy these games along side people that don't personally know anyone in-game. Computers are as common as TVs and 15 bucks a month isn't hard to pull off.</p><p>I see several posts that are usually from the people that played back when there was a specific arch-type that played these games... and they feel like their game has been taken away from them. Don't discount that feeling. It's powerful. It's like a "secret place" that was discovered by all the kids in the neighborhood, and now it's just a playground. That's a crappy feeling.</p><p>However, that does not mean the other playstyles aren't welcome here. Those other playstyles are what keep this game afloat. Everyone together brings in enough money to get expansions and have a great dev team.</p><p>The problem comes with the content. The devs can no longer say, "What would our playerbase like?" because that playerbase is dramatically varied. Odds are, no matter what is added, some will love it and some will hate it.</p><p>The end result of this is a game that is a little more vanilla than it used to be. But let's not over-state that. It's a little more vanilla and it's a little easier... sure... but I personally think that SOE has done a very good job of finding a middle ground that reaches all playstyles. There's raid content and group content and solo content.</p><p>Bottom line: MMOs have evolved into something new and something that is significantly more mainstream. As gamers, we have a choice: We can evolve with it or we can find a game that still caters to our specific niche. I'm not saying "If you don't like it, leave." I want everyone here to stay here. I'm just saying that MMOs are not going back to those early EQ1 days. We're no longer a relatively small group of like-minded folks. Now we're a huge group of varied folks that happen to enjoy the same game. I think we should cut SOE a little slack for trying to evolve the game to meet the new MMO standards.</p></blockquote><p>I just wanted to post publically to state how much I appreciated this post. </p>

[Giral]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><strong><span style="color: #339966;"></span></strong></blockquote><p>I do, however, totally agree with you that SOE needs to do something to market this wonderful game. Last night, I saw 2 different WoW commercials in just a little over 2 hours of TV time. EQ2 commercials? Do such things exist? Does SOE even <strong>have</strong> a marketing department that works on EQ2?</p></blockquote><p>In my experience they have 1 marketing intern for all SoE titles.</p><p>Or atleast, thats the job performance they aspire to.</p></blockquote><p> I saw a LotR commercial a couple nights ago , if that game can sport a commercial, Sony sure could afford one lol</p>

[Oh]

<p><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Almost immediately I'm surrounded by several guildmates who are either hard at work on tradeskilling....</p></blockquote><p>Tradeskilling in a guild hall is a nightmare of lag and usually only undertaken by those for whom the harvester bot is their only source of raw materials.</p></blockquote><p>Have you even tried? my guild hall is a T2 and it's stuffed to the brim with stuff in it, so if there was any lag I should note it. Frankly I prefer TS'ing in my guild hall because there is no lag. Apparently you have a different experience, or you just like to make nonsence comments. Also note, my experience is not just me, but a vast majority of folks on these forums, in games, and even in the ts forums..</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Elebu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elebu@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.</p><p><strong>88</strong></p><p>MMOs have been <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">gutted</span> <strong>redefined</strong> by the "I <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">want it NOW</span><strong> have a job</strong>" generation <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Fixed.  You're welcome.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed what? Where? I see you made cosmetic changes, but simply saying "fixed" is meaningless. You could, for example, see fit to provide some content that explains your "fix", especially since it's not apparent what you think you did.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed your over-used generalization of course.  MMO's have been redefined by people like me, who work a job and don't want it "now" necessarily, but sometime BEFORE I"M 90.  Dig?</p><p>You ack'd your opinion "is & will continue to be highly unpopular".  Why so defensive?</p><p>Oh that's right, I don't care.</p></blockquote><p>I ask for clarification -- because your "I have a job" inclusion could have been taken in at least two different ways -- & you take that as being defensive? & if you don't care, why did you bother responding in the first place <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>However, I note that there are other people -- who have jobs, spouses, & even children -- who manage to get what they want from this game in what they consider to be a reasonable length of time. Some of those people agree with me that the game is "too easy"; others strongly disagree & think it's just about "hard" enough. So, even among those who "have a job", there's no consensus regarding necessary changes, & therefore simply saying "people like me" doesn't identify anything, other than a group to which you attach some significance.</p>

[Lonestryd]

<p>Oh, nevermind.</p>

[Zarador]

<p>What happened in my opinion coming from the very early days of Everquest Live and later Beta Everquest II is that too many players are doing what they think they should be doing and not what they want to be doing.</p><ul><li>People should log into the game to have fun and to enjoy the game in their own way.  </li><li>Groups should be for people that enjoy grouping, not for better rewards.  I keep reading time after time that if solo play offered the same or similair rewards as group play, who would group?  My guess is that the people who really enjoy grouping with others and having fun would continue to do so anyway.  I'm not suggesting the rewards be the same, simply pointing out that grouping should be fun or why bother? </li><li>Solo play should be for people who enjoy doing things on their own at their own pace, not the fast track to AA or level advancement.</li><li>Guilds should be for like minded individuals that enjoy doing things together, not because some guild offers the best path to advancement, even if your not having fun playing. </li><li>Players need to make their own choices, then accept that the choices are what limit them.  The game has not failed them, they simply have failed to do the same thing for the same rewards. </li></ul><p>Most people in the real world on a regular basis do things that are not always enjoyable, but needed for the "reward" in the end, be it a job or an education.  We don't need to log into a form of entertainment to do the same.  If logging in and spending time with other people playing a game you enjoy is your thing, then that's the reward!  It's not the pixels in some chest at the end of the dungeon.  Otherwise, what are you gearing for; the next "miserable night" on a game?  On the flip side, if you like to avoid contact with others in the game, accept that the shiney pixels at the end of the dungeon are going to be observed as a link in the chat channel.  Your reward was doing your own thing in a world that you enjoy.</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Logannx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I actually wasn't referring to the shadowed men when I said I thought were done with aliens and robots. I was referring to the ravasect in KoS. Im fine with shadowed men and different planes.</p><p>The one thing I cant get around is using that stupid cannon at the start of moors of ykesha. I almost want to power level a mage high enough to get coh then park him on the other side so I dont have to use that stupid gimmick that belongs in super mario not in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>They aren't aliens they are insects.</p><p>I suppose you hate the catapult in Zek too then.</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Giralus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><strong><span style="color: #339966;"></span></strong></blockquote><p>I do, however, totally agree with you that SOE needs to do something to market this wonderful game. Last night, I saw 2 different WoW commercials in just a little over 2 hours of TV time. EQ2 commercials? Do such things exist? Does SOE even <strong>have</strong> a marketing department that works on EQ2?</p></blockquote><p>In my experience they have 1 marketing intern for all SoE titles.</p><p>Or atleast, thats the job performance they aspire to.</p></blockquote><p> I saw a LotR commercial a couple nights ago , if that game can sport a commercial, Sony sure could afford one lol</p></blockquote><p>Apparently Eve Online has tv spots too, but I havent watched TV w/commercials in years (yay tv torrent downloads!).</p><p>I see them on the CCP website and YouTube.</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p><cite>Ohiv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Almost immediately I'm surrounded by several guildmates who are either hard at work on tradeskilling....</p></blockquote><p>Tradeskilling in a guild hall is a nightmare of lag and usually only undertaken by those for whom the harvester bot is their only source of raw materials.</p></blockquote><p>Have you even tried? my guild hall is a T2 and it's stuffed to the brim with stuff in it, so if there was any lag I should note it. Frankly I prefer TS'ing in my guild hall because there is no lag. Apparently you have a different experience, or you just like to make nonsence comments. Also note, my experience is not just me, but a vast majority of folks on these forums, in games, and even in the ts forums..</p></blockquote><p>Well obviously I am imagining it. Thank you so much for putting me right.</p>