What Happened?

[BladeLo]

When I first came to this game my wife would come into the room and listen to Ole Dagorel tell me what it took to become a Warrior or Crusader.  We would both listen to speeches as the NPC's of this game unraveled a story that made us feel included in the eq2 world.  As we worked our way to level 10 we did so with the idea that we would be making choices as to which path our new lives would take.  Crusader or Warrior.

When I walked the streets of Qeynos the streets were alive with players and npc's alike.  NPC's offered quests and a story and charm and character.  The game was a world of its own.  The game had feel and lore.  The game was a world come alive.

A story was weaved from the time a player first entered the game and was taken to the isle on the boat.  Tired, hungry and frightened.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out on a new adventure and not sure how it was going to end.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out a pauper.  With NOTHING and that somehow you were going to have to earn your way in the world if you ever wanted to stand out.

Qeynos or Freeport was all about YOU.  It was about how YOU were going to fit into the society that had been carved out of the shattered lands.  It was how YOU were going to make things just a tad bit better.  It was about how YOU were going to save the day for the citizens as you quested to make the lands, no matter your alignment, a better place.

The game was about YOUR place in this lands.  NOW the game is about YOU alright.  It is about how fast you can get to level 80.  How fast you can become a master tradeskiller in 9 professions.  It is about raiding and instancing and getting awesome armor.

Today the cities are empty.  The NPC's are silent.  The charm and the flair and the feel is gone.  Qeynos is a desolate place as if the heart and soul of the town and the game have been ripped from them and they are just waiting for the Overlord to take them into chains and turn them into undead.

 Because the lands I once loved are gone.  Replaced with instant gratification.  I do not begrudge instances or groups or raids or super armor or the eternal quest for glory in deep dark dungeons.  The only thing I bemoan is that this game has been gutted of its content, feel, flair, panache and lore for the almighty race to level 80.  Just as modern day society is racing at dizzying paces so to is Everquest 2. 

I could be wrong.  But thats my story and Im sticking too it.  You want to bring back customers Sony?  Then bring back the heart and soul of this game.  Somehow, somewhere you got lost as you focused on end game content.  Instead of focusing on the entire game you focused on just one aspect of it.  End game.  Essentially your saying to your players.  Race to level 80.  YOU WIN.  Game over.

[Logan]

Over the years the game world has lost its consistency and immersion. We have become accustomed to pop culture refrences in our quests.  There are robots and aliens. People wear illusion items and shrink themselves and destroy the scale of the game.We have come to a point where gnome shenanigans are the focus of your entry to the new expansion where you are shot in a barrel over a gorge. Eq2 has become a whimsical game. One thing that really bothers me is when you out to say..the city of jinisk..well theres no city..there arent even a couple of huts. or go to outer sebilis and same thing. at least bathezid watch had some bunk beds. strangely the orcs of norrath seem to have the best supply masters in their strongholds,,,actually looks like an army exists there. but again theres no consistency with the rest of thegame world.

I thought we were done with rockets and aliens when luckin crashed..no such luck.

[Graffix_75]

I completely agree, the immersed feeling I experience from the moment I started a new character, stepping onto the isle where you are promptly asked for the class you wanted to be. I much rather prefer the original class progression, it really felt like a Role playing MMO, the different stages in your class progression had immersive storylines. I remember when I reached lvl 20 and finally became a Wizard, I felt a real sense of accomplishment. I remember the rather funny storyline for the mage->summoner->Necro progression.

For me personally, the journey is just as, if not, more important than the end game. As others have mentioned, now, it's just a race to level cap.

[liveja]

I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.

IMO, the downfall of this game began the day SOE eliminated shard recovery & shared group debt. Back in those "bad" old days, I had less trouble finding groups, & more fun in them. But since then, SOE has gone to great lengths to eliminate the "need" for grouping, by increasingly making it easier & faster to solo for XP & loot, & the game has been increasingly feeling "gutted."

The downfall continued when SOE neutered Ant, CL, & Nek, & continued its dizzying pace when first Darklight Woods & then Timorous Deep were introduced. After all, who needs to do those dull, boring old zones when you can level to 20 in one afternoon of easy TD questing, then pop over to DLW to finish up the higher level quests there, then hop straight to BBM & ignore the old world entirely?

Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.

That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."

MMOs have been gutted by the "I want it NOW" generation

[Loolee]

Just like real life, this game is what you make it.  Stop relying on the developers to create your fun for you.  If you like the lore, then slow down and read the quests.  EQ has a very rich history if you take the time to find it.  Join a roleplaying server, you may not roleplay, but you will find a lot of the lore junkies there.  Find like minded players and do what feels natural to you, no one should begrudge you for that, and if they do, then they have lost sight of what is important.

I'm far from uber but have continued to enjoy this game from day one.  You get what you put into it.

[Kordran]

Graffix_75 wrote:

I completely agree, the immersed feeling I experience from the moment I started a new character, stepping onto the isle where you are promptly asked for the class you wanted to be. I much rather prefer the original class progression, it really felt like a Role playing MMO, the different stages in your class progression had immersive storylines. I remember when I reached lvl 20 and finally became a Wizard, I felt a real sense of accomplishment. I remember the rather funny storyline for the mage->summoner->Necro progression.

For me personally, the journey is just as, if not, more important than the end game. As others have mentioned, now, it's just a race to level cap.

The class progression was fun, once. It was not fun your 5th time through. It was tedious and repetitive. In some cases, it also made no sense (Fighter > Crusader > Shadowknight being an example where the gameplay as a Crusader was completely different than what you'd end up with as a Shadowknight).

This game is 4 years old. You have to expect that they're going to focus more on the end-game simply because that's where most of the playerbase is. That said, it is only a race if you decide to run. With the last update, you have the ability to completely control your rate of advancement, and can disable the bonus XP, combat XP and/or quest XP as you see fit. The amount of time you spend smelling the roses is completely under your control, so I don't see how anyone could reasonably think that they're being forced to "race to level cap" in the game.

[Illmarr]

People often speak about "Next-gen MMO's". IMO Current MMO's have already become next-gen MMO's due to their player base. Your average MMO player of 2008 is a much different beast than your MMO player of 2000. Those of us who have played through the changes in the player culture can look back and see where the bus went off the tracks from our perspective.

On a side note, on release day I made the comment to my wife how disappointed I was that no one from the Landing site I spoke to had any voice aside from a generic greeting. I take the time to read all quest dialog, but it's funner to read along with the voice asking for your help or telling the story. Then was shocked that there is new voice acting from the quest givers located near the entrances to the various dungeon instances.

[Kordran]

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.

That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."

Yes and no. The legendary faction stuff that you can buy, with a few exceptions, is expensive junk. There are a few decent rewards for quests that are soloable, but they are tedious quest lines (Thuuga, Jarsath Hunters) with a large timesink component to them.

For the most part, the end-game items that are truly worthwhile in the game do require at least group effort. If they really only "care about themselves, their own adventure" then they're going to end-up with half-baked, mediocre toons at level cap.

[Apocroph]

Logannx wrote:

Over the years the game world has lost its consistency and immersion. We have become accustomed to pop culture refrences in our quests.  There are robots and aliens. People wear illusion items and shrink themselves and destroy the scale of the game.We have come to a point where gnome shenanigans are the focus of your entry to the new expansion where you are shot in a barrel over a gorge. Eq2 has become a whimsical game. One thing that really bothers me is when you out to say..the city of jinisk..well theres no city..there arent even a couple of huts. or go to outer sebilis and same thing. at least bathezid watch had some bunk beds. strangely the orcs of norrath seem to have the best supply masters in their strongholds,,,actually looks like an army exists there. but again theres no consistency with the rest of thegame world.

I thought we were done with rockets and aliens when luckin crashed..no such luck.

The Shadowed Men aren't aliens.  They originated on Norrath.  Stop by the History and Lore boards...  You might learn a thing or two about the world you live in.

[Kizee]

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

I realize my opinion is & will continue to be highly unpopular, but it is what it is.

IMO, the downfall of this game began the day SOE eliminated shard recovery & shared group debt. Back in those "bad" old days, I had less trouble finding groups, & more fun in them. But since then, SOE has gone to great lengths to eliminate the "need" for grouping, by increasingly making it easier & faster to solo for XP & loot, & the game has been increasingly feeling "gutted."

The downfall continued when SOE neutered Ant, CL, & Nek, & continued its dizzying pace when first Darklight Woods & then Timorous Deep were introduced. After all, who needs to do those dull, boring old zones when you can level to 20 in one afternoon of easy TD questing, then pop over to DLW to finish up the higher level quests there, then hop straight to BBM & ignore the old world entirely?

Now, people are spoiled by easy soloing & legendary items that can be had from nothing more than an easy-breezy faction line, or even fabled stuff like the Thuuga jewelry that many players can obtain solo, & others need no more than a duo to complete. They want their fabled epic soloable. Some of them even want soloable options for mythicals, & think there's nothing wrong with that idea.

That's what happened: too many people who only care about themselves, their own adventure, their own profit, & so have little-to-no interest in dealing with others. Ironically, many of those same people openly accuse "hardcore groupers" of being "selfish."

MMOs have been gutted by the "I want it NOW" generation

QFE

[Windowlicker]

The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.

[Nimeesha]

You can break it down to 3 words "World of Warcraft".  Even though you may hate it, WoW has set the standard for the current generation of MMOs.  Unfortunatly, SOE has "dumbed" down EQ2 to try to aquire some of their fanbase.  It's too bad that's what happened, but one can only wonder where EQ2 would be today if they hadn't.  Maybe thriving more than it is now (doubtful), or it may be dead.  Even EQlive has added hireable NPCs to help you do content.  I'm afraid that the superior game (EQ2) has gotten the raw end of the deal with the changes to the MMO world.

That being said, I am still happy with the game and it provides lots of content for all playstyles.  Sure I wish I saw more people in Qeynos but IMO the Guild Halls were the final nail in that coffin.  Things change, and you either roll with it or find another thing to do with your gaming time.  But I doubt you will find a better MMO than EQ2 no matter how hard you look.

[liveja]

Kordran wrote:

If they really only "care about themselves, their own adventure" then they're going to end-up with half-baked, mediocre toons at level cap.

Yep, & it's their own fault, too -- not SOE's.

I'm sick past my ears of the "plight of the pure soloer" & other such whiney drivel.

[Isoloki]

BladeLore wrote:

When I first came to this game my wife would come into the room and listen to Ole Dagorel tell me what it took to become a Warrior or Crusader.  We would both listen to speeches as the NPC's of this game unraveled a story that made us feel included in the eq2 world.  As we worked our way to level 10 we did so with the idea that we would be making choices as to which path our new lives would take.  Crusader or Warrior.

When I walked the streets of Qeynos the streets were alive with players and npc's alike.  NPC's offered quests and a story and charm and character.  The game was a world of its own.  The game had feel and lore.  The game was a world come alive.

A story was weaved from the time a player first entered the game and was taken to the isle on the boat.  Tired, hungry and frightened.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out on a new adventure and not sure how it was going to end.  There was a feel that YOU were starting out a pauper.  With NOTHING and that somehow you were going to have to earn your way in the world if you ever wanted to stand out.

Qeynos or Freeport was all about YOU.  It was about how YOU were going to fit into the society that had been carved out of the shattered lands.  It was how YOU were going to make things just a tad bit better.  It was about how YOU were going to save the day for the citizens as you quested to make the lands, no matter your alignment, a better place.

The game was about YOUR place in this lands.  NOW the game is about YOU alright.  It is about how fast you can get to level 80.  How fast you can become a master tradeskiller in 9 professions.  It is about raiding and instancing and getting awesome armor.

Today the cities are empty.  The NPC's are silent.  The charm and the flair and the feel is gone.  Qeynos is a desolate place as if the heart and soul of the town and the game have been ripped from them and they are just waiting for the Overlord to take them into chains and turn them into undead.

 Because the lands I once loved are gone.  Replaced with instant gratification.  I do not begrudge instances or groups or raids or super armor or the eternal quest for glory in deep dark dungeons.  The only thing I bemoan is that this game has been gutted of its content, feel, flair, panache and lore for the almighty race to level 80.  Just as modern day society is racing at dizzying paces so to is Everquest 2. 

I could be wrong.  But thats my story and Im sticking too it.  You want to bring back customers Sony?  Then bring back the heart and soul of this game.  Somehow, somewhere you got lost as you focused on end game content.  Instead of focusing on the entire game you focused on just one aspect of it.  End game.  Essentially your saying to your players.  Race to level 80.  YOU WIN.  Game over.

I whole heartily Agree.

This is not about soloing,grouping, or raiding. It is not about the best gear. (you know, having legendary,fabled, or mythical). It is not about end game.(to me means game over).

This is about a living world where there are grand adventures to be had. A thriving community in the cities. Players and npc's to interact with in different ways, wether you are just chatting or reading up on lore,or trading etc. Feeling like you mean something to the world, even if it is just for yourself. Exploring the world either alone or with friends. Taking on tough dungeons, not for the loot, but for the fun. Feeling like your outside of the real world... in other words.... IMMERSION.

Now that has all passed, All most players want is what they think/feel is when the game starts... End Game. Where the best gear is, so they can feel uber. So the game has changed to suit those players. So now the speed to get to level 80 has increased. Instead of taking months to get there you can do in 2 weeks of hard playing (4 hours a night every day for 14 days give or take a few hours). It is no longer about the world. But what gear can I get fast. It is not about the community, it is how much I can parse.

I don't feel it is SOE's fault for making changes to the game. They are a company trying to make a profit. It is the Players themselves that are ruining the game. There are not enough of us left that want to smell the roses so to speak. Those of us that want a community that just wants to enjoy the world need to start looking else where. It is sad really. Cause this has been such a good world for me since April 2005. But Alas that world is gone. It is time for the next generation of MMOer's. Those that don't care about the wolrd just the ubor loot.

I wish everyone fun in the way they play Everquest 2.

[Kordran]

Nimeesha@Befallen wrote:

Sure I wish I saw more people in Qeynos but IMO the Guild Halls were the final nail in that coffin.

Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker (which, honestly, is where 90% of the population in the cities would be found)? Or are you just disappointed that other players are no longer serving as background props to aid you in your own personal sense of "immersion", but really didn't care much about them outside of that context?

I'm serious. Before guildhalls, how many players were actually "in the city" doing something other than going AFK at the broker or bank? And of those, how many of them did you just strike up a random conversation with them using /say?

The vast, vast majority of player interaction between strangers in this game happens in global level chat and /tells. Guildhalls haven't changed that. The only thing that has changed is the background scenery of random players standing around in QH or EFP. Now they're just standing around inside their guildhall. Not exactly a huge loss, in my opinion.

[liveja]

Kordran wrote:

Nimeesha@Befallen wrote:

Sure I wish I saw more people in Qeynos but IMO the Guild Halls were the final nail in that coffin.

Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker

Not often, but to me the point is that with them there, or otherwise running around the city, the cities had an illusion of life.

Now, they no longer do, & new players coming in may be forgiven for thinking there's nobody else playing.

I don't think the guild halls should be eliminated -- which is good, because I'm sure they won't be -- & I really like many things about them. But that's not to say I can't look at some of their unintended effects & be a little saddened that things have worked out as they have.

[thephantomposter]

This is kind of interesting timing, my kids have been wanting to play WoW. I can't afford all these subscriptions so I chose EQ2 that my friends play. I decided I would try WoW this weekend, 10 day free trial. I do know some people I could play with, so for my kids I gave it a shot. I really do not like the graphics but I must say I was blown away at the starting areas. Tried 3 of em so far. They were crowded with toons. If I needed help, it was always there, 2 feet away. The dead carcasses from people completing their quests littered the ground. People would help you kill something even if you did not ask and carried on. That part was awsome.

Kordan said : Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker (which, honestly, is where 90% of the population in the cities would be found)? Or are you just disappointed that other players are no longer serving as background props to aid you in your own personal sense of "immersion", but really didn't care much about them outside of that context?

I think it adds a lot to the game. The difference was amazing! I do not like WoW and I love EQ2 but the experience was night and day. So I would say it is both, a 'background prop' and the interaction. The Cities are dead, when you walk through a city and all you see are NPCs, it does not feel like a mmorpg it feels like Morrowind.

IMO I think that there should be questing right in the city that has to do with lore. There should be more interaction with NPCs. There should be more racial quests, that is a big part of the lore isn't it? There should be more class quests. I just recently started another toon in FP, it was dead. The crafting tables were empty. What a difference between that and WoW.

Maybe this a natural progression for mmorpgs? Eventually it is all about endgame?

I know my post sounds negative but I love EQ2, I will be staying. Eventually I work my way to endgame.

[bryldan]

thephantomposter wrote:

This is kind of interesting timing, my kids have been wanting to play WoW. I can't afford all these subscriptions so I chose EQ2 that my friends play. I decided I would try WoW this weekend, 10 day free trial. I do know some people I could play with, so for my kids I gave it a shot. I really do not like the graphics but I must say I was blown away at the starting areas. Tried 3 of em so far. They were crowded with toons. If I needed help, it was always there, 2 feet away. The dead carcasses from people completing their quests littered the ground. People would help you kill something even if you did not ask and carried on. That part was awsome.

Kordan said : Why exactly? Did you actually interact with those random strangers standing around the broker (which, honestly, is where 90% of the population in the cities would be found)? Or are you just disappointed that other players are no longer serving as background props to aid you in your own personal sense of "immersion", but really didn't care much about them outside of that context?

I think it adds a lot to the game. The difference was amazing! I do not like WoW and I love EQ2 but the experience was night and day. So I would say it is both, a 'background prop' and the interaction. The Cities are dead, when you walk through a city and all you see are NPCs, it does not feel like a mmorpg it feels like Morrowind.

IMO I think that there should be questing right in the city that has to do with lore. There should be more interaction with NPCs. There should be more racial quests, that is a big part of the lore isn't it? There should be more class quests. I just recently started another toon in FP, it was dead. The crafting tables were empty. What a difference between that and WoW.

Maybe this a natural progression for mmorpgs? Eventually it is all about endgame?

I know my post sounds negative but I love EQ2, I will be staying. Eventually I work my way to endgame.

One of the bigger reasons for this (guild halls aside) is that first off the size of the land is less than a third of EQ2. They have what only 3 starting cities? Compared to 5 i think it is for this game? While there is more that EQ2 could have done better for these cities no matter what guild halls are way better than the negatives. I do not feel immersed whatsoever about ppl being afk in the cities with not a peep from them. Chat channels take all immersion from the game since it concentrates it all there which is a good thing because i would hate to be asking for a group only in the zone i am in lol.

[Grumble69]

yada yada yada

click

yada

click

Accept Quest?

Yes already.  I've got 200 AAs to try and fill and this is just 1 of hundreds of quests I got to do.  Immersion was replaced by mindless repetition.  Now go kill 20 orcs and come back to me.

[Giral]

i think the reason eq2 failed is they made the entire game easier, and finaly in rok and now tso have started to introduce a learning curve

originaly in eq2 you had a self induced learning cuvre wih Shards and real armor damage of reduced stats for each shard lost, and group debt, you learned to play or you learned to die,

with the removal of shards, and with the decrease in debt, and increased exp rate the game became , well , laughable , and as many have said in forums, " my group died and we all laughed" haha ha ha how wonderous

now if eq2 had from the start had a better learning curve, and the game slowly got harder as you leveled it would have been amuch more gradual experiance , and the farther and better you got, the harder and tougher the game becomes

taking a console game as an example, you dont start out with the best weopons, you dont start out fighting boss mobs with 10 difrent attacks, etc,,

example of how to structure eq2 to get people into the game but keep it always exciting ahead

level 1 thru 10 , no death penelty , minor debt.

level 10 thru 20 no death penelty , more debt

level 20 thru 30 ability to lose 1 spirit shard, normal debt stays the same for rest of the game

30 thru 40 , can lose 2 shards, and minor decreased stats for each shard lost,

40 thru 50 can lose 5 shards normal deacreased stats for each shard lost

50 thru 60, can lose 10 shards, ,decreased stats

60 thru 70 10 shards , decreased stats, can lose a level is (any masters you have would return to matsre status when you regain level )

70 thru 80 shards, decreased stats, level loss (any masters lost are gone for good)

80 thru 90 shards,decrease stats,level loss, and AA Minor Aa exp loss

90 thru 100 shards,stats,lvl loss,and Normal AA exp loss

100 thru 110 all of the above , and Minor group debt

 110 thru 120 all above , normal group debt

etc,, this gives a feeling of challange, the higher and farther and stronger you get in the game, the tougher,more challanging and dangerous the game becomes, it allws People to get into the game, get up to level 40 + and finaly start feeling some sting for thier mistakes, it pushes people to get better as they go , but gives them the chance to get far enough into the game that they are addicted to it /wink, and it gives a better sense of accomplishment the further into the game you get , you know that level 80 is 100 times Rsikier then level 1 thru 40 

 Risk Vs reward is gone from EQ2 , you risk nothing in eq2 except some coin for repairs  there is no adreniline rush , there is no nail bitting fear that if you fail you lose a corpse, get major debt,that you will have to grind for hours to make up that debt,no fear of De-leveling , etc,,,

anyone that played other mmo's or even eq2 at release knows the Rush of beating a hard encounter at the bottom of a dungeon, you know becuase you wiped time and again trying to get to the bottom and had to crawl back with reduced stats to get your shards, you know becuase if you died you got serious debt, and you know that Exp was much harder raise, but thru it all when you finaly were geared enough and in a good enough group and you cleared that zone you felt a sense accomplishment at finaly making it .,  now Pfft zones are cleared in 15 minutes, people and groups die and wipe all the time, rewards drop like candy.

 o well off to make my own challanges /locks level, /removes gear , says in lvl chat "  naked tank looking for group "

[troodon]

Logannx wrote:

I thought we were done with rockets and aliens when luckin crashed..no such luck.

QFE, I can't stand it.

[Lilj]

bryldan wrote:

One of the bigger reasons for this (guild halls aside) is that first off the size of the land is less than a third of EQ2. They have what only 3 starting cities? Compared to 5 i think it is for this game?

Now, I'm not an expert on WoW, but I think there are 4 starting cities per side (Alliance and Horde), so they have 8 starting cities compared to our 5.

If I'm wrong, I hope someone will let me know. But I seem to remember 4 for the Alliance side (elf, gnome/dwarf,human and dranaei), when I tried the trial.

Just as a minor nit, that's all.

[Snowdonia]

Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:

The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.

Cities never had "life", they had broker/bank campers. I'm personally glad that I can run to the FP collector now without my FPS slowing down to a crawl passing the broker and having to wade through a ton of broker campers to get there.

[Amise]

Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:

The cities are now empty thanks to Guildhalls.  If you want them full of life again, remove Guildhalls.

Rubbish. The only zones that were ever full of life, after the first year or so of the game, were the ones with brokers and bankers. Most of the others you'd be lucky to see an occasional person in there besides yourself.

[greenmantle]

thephantomposter wrote:

This is kind of interesting timing, my kids have been wanting to play WoW. I can't afford all these subscriptions so I chose EQ2 that my friends play. I decided I would try WoW this weekend, 10 day free trial. I do know some people I could play with, so for my kids I gave it a shot. I really do not like the graphics but I must say I was blown away at the starting areas. Tried 3 of em so far. They were crowded with toons.

Some times you want quality not quantity, i met more jerks per pixel in wow that any other game i have tried.

I have to agree with the OP i miss the old style starter quests but then i miss having a level 5 ranger standing outside the city gates wondering what there is to life once your tired of selling rat tails to boomba.

The game you started will always be special, a bit like waking up after 20 years of marriage, remembering version 1.0 and wondering where all the updates came from.

[psisto]

Ive never actually witnessed "the olden days" of eq2, but a lot of the things I read did seem very nice to me, like the more complex crafting et all.

What eq2 imho could use would be a total revamp and rebalance of the pre-80 content. there are places noone visits, like serpent sewer, or other  low-end zones. people outlevel them before they get anything out of it, and in the face of far better zones like TD, the fun of freeport/queynos fades in comparison. Im not saying FP is bad, but I felt once I walked out into the commonlands, i felt a) totally and utterly lost, and b) like in a true desert. the first couple hundred feet past the city gate are nothing like bare textured, empty hills. no players/npc/mobs/grass/anything. TD however was a beautifully constructed place, which has a solid, compelling story to lead the player through the zone, and advance them quickly.

In my opinion, the old content needs to be made more interesting and worthwhile, imho by slowing down exp gain. the race to 80 is nice and all, but its the journey that should be fun. and starting in FP compared to TD is considerably /less/ fun, you really notice the older zones, and the often obsolete loot (like chickenbane.. I wonder if /anyone/ ever uses that quest reward...).

The crafting system is monotonous and feels bolted on for many professions, if not downright obsolete for a good portion of its content (MC gear for lower levels = no reason to buy anymore, and handcrafted gear is best sold to the fuel merchant, because I sure cant get it to sell for anything much or within the course of a month. I still have stuff priced /just/ above the fuel merchant´s pay in my broker cratest, sitting there for months on end). It needs a new approach to tie it in better with the dropped loot, and provide alternate gear, not necessarily superior. even matched, but different.

Giving people better means of trafficking would be nice too. make people work for their getting places, by questing for the transport abilities, but give them something worthwhile in the end. for example getting around in faydwer is a pain, mostly, and I would love long-range gryphon stations, which you would have to discover, but could use to get around a tad bit faster.

Also more sensible quest loot would be nice. options for small groups, duo/trio instances which give better stuff than solo playing, but worse than full grouping. a proper balance for  solo/small group/group/raid loot. maybe uncommon/treasured/legendary/fabled, in that order, with the occassional treasured for solo, legendary for duo, etc, to toss players a bone every now and then.

There is a lot that can be done, and imho TD is a very nice starter zone. there just needs to be better early-on content, and slower leveling pace, but still at a rate where you can progress without grinding in between quests. a story to lead you through levels, and by picking zones and factions, you get to influence that story and take your way.

The reason people are rushed to 80 is a) because noone bothers with low-end content anymore, and b) because low-end content is highly underpowered in comparison to high-end rewards. these issues can and should be adressed, after all the bolted-on content from expansions and tweakings done for those expansions, I think its time to step back, look at the whole picture, and make it all fit together in one big move, to obtain a coherent, complete game, which has the same density of content throughout its course, and provides a smooth learning curve

[BladeLo]

 1. Cities in eq2 are humongous thus the empty feel. I remember hanging out at the Farm house in Antonica when I was a noob and thinking this is really kewl.  If it just had a broker, a banker, email and the stuff that the vendors sold were really needed by new players then it would be perfect.

2. Players have huge 36 slot boxes time 6 thus they hardly ever have to unload at a vendor.  When they call back to the Guild hall its almost an afterthought.  Quest payments are outrageous.  You can run thru TD have a complete set of armor, and enough cash to buy 16 slot bags and your all set by the end of the second day.   EQ2 gives you speed buffs and free carpets and easy...easy...easy.  No challenge.  No sense of accomplishment.  No feeling as if you have worked for something........its given to you.

3. Travel is STar Trekie.  Scotty Beam me up cause I dont want to spend 2 minutes traveling anywhere.  I want it and I want if now.  Workers sledge mallet, attack a guard poof your in JW.  Travel Amenities in GH's are insta port to whereever you want to go.

4. The reason other games have people in cities is because you are rewarded for being in them.  Example would be WoW's resting bonus for spending time in a city.  You can actually fish in your home city, thus getting XP while working a skill and having a reason for being inside of the city.

5. Crafting is so easy now with the Guild Halls.  My guild had 15,000 bristled pelts in their big lock box.  You just walked up to a crafting station and as long as you had the fuel you could start crafting and the components were taken from the big lock box.  Hell you dont even have to gather anymore........They do that for you and of course rares are pointless now because advancing almost negates needing MC armor now because you can literally fly thru a tier in one day......perhaps 2 days if your lazy.

6. Someone mentioned that after the 4th or the 5th time thru you dont want to see the content you just want to be done with it................BINGO...........and here is the problem in a nut shell.  Sony played to an ever diminishing player base to keep them happy when in reality they should have been playing to the millions of new players that come online every year. 

EQ2 is a good game.  It could be so much better.  The die is cast.  They have chosen their poison and their poison is to focus on end game material by giving the 100 players who are willing to grind raid zones everything they always wanted.  Uber equiptment.  Funny thing I was talking to a fabled out raider the other day and he told me......I come to eq2 to raid.  I go to WoW to have fun.

[Spyderbite]

BladeLore wrote:

Today the cities are empty.

Guild Halls.

Join a guild.. you'll find a thriving portal of activity. Has nothing to do with level 80, Raids, End Game, etc. Most players are in guilds. Guild Halls offer everything a city has to offer without the necessity of travel. So, we're all huddled away in our guild halls.

[Kendricke]

Giralus wrote:

 i think the reason eq2 failed

It failed?  I just had 10 former guildmates log in within the past three weeks to start playing again.  Our activity levels are way, way up in my guild.  Every night - even on our raid nights - we're forming at LEAST three or four instance groups. 

The studio just released their fifth full expansion in as many years.  Everquest I celebrates it's TENTH year this year.  Perhaps your definition of "failed" differs from mine. 

[Giral]

Kendricke wrote:

Giralus wrote:

 i think the reason eq2 failed

It failed?  I just had 10 former guildmates log in within the past three weeks to start playing again.  Our activity levels are way, way up in my guild.  Every night - even on our raid nights - we're forming at LEAST three or four instance groups. 

The studio just released their fifth full expansion in as many years.  Everquest I celebrates it's TENTH year this year.  Perhaps your definition of "failed" differs from mine. 

yeah but you didn't include the rest of the line that adds to the point you made of returning players , here let me post it all for you  { i think the reason eq2 failed is they made the entire game easier, and finaly in rok and now tso have started to introduce a learning curve }

    the Op was talking about the game from release and how it had a more indepth ,passionate, living breathing realm to it, i added my thoughts on why it Failed with making the game easier and easier and easier since DOF  (Why did all those Old guildies and Freinds Leave Eq2? if it has been such a great game since DOF ?  

 look they made ROk and TSO harder and Rok was the best selling expansion yet, and with TSO i also have seen a Bunch of people resubscribe,,, Lore based Expansion,<-- isnt that what the op said starting out there was a Story line, a sense of you bieng a miniscule dot in the game and being inticed to joinig a city to add your personal help .

and the point i was making was that the game all along should have been getting progressively harder, teaching people as they level, leting them get into the game but at the same time making them want to play better , and working in the risk vs rewrad over time , so the farther you go, the higher you get, the more challange will always await you  ( didnt have to be with My model of how to achiev it was just an example of one way )  but why are poeple returning when the game has become Harder ?  becuase Risk vs reward and challanging gameplay is what people want , even the poeple that dont know it ; )