Warden Bugs/Issues updated 07/15/08

[Sorano]

<p>Since Aeralik has pointed out that some classes have not updated their bugs/issues thread in a very long time, I am attempting to bring the warden one up to date, so we can get some much needed attention.</p><p><b>Bugs</b></p><p><i>Tranquility Line</i></p><p>The heal on Tranquility is being treated like a HoT, and all +heal mods are only applied to the first heal. This needs to be fixed as +heal should apply to all the heal triggers. </p><p><i>Warden Cure AA end line ability</i></p><p>Shatter Infection does not trigger as stated. It should trigger a cure all once any group member drop below 50% health, but in its current state it does nothing.</p><p>The entire Warden cure AA line needs to be reworked. I recommend making the Shatter Infection end line ability change the Tranquility line into a group wide spell. I also suggest that any cure bonuses apply to Tranquility as well as our single target cures.</p><p><i>Faery Ally</i></p><p>The Faery currently gets stuck on attempting to heal dead people. This is particularly annoying during raids.Another thing I have noticed is that the Faery will waste time trying to move to the person with the lowest hps, cutting down the amount of healing it does. I suggest that the Faery heal becomes zonewide, so the Faery does not actually have to move about.</p><p><i>Mythical weapon </i></p><p>The stoneskin clicky buff expires after 3 hits. It should last 12 seconds. The stoneskin effect drops once the Infuriating Thorns damage shield procs 3x.</p><p>Clicky buff cannot be cast on the warden themselves</p><p>Cast time on Clicky needs to be 1 second or insta cast as it is a save that you use in an emergency, making the current cast time too long</p><p><i>AE Root agility debuff</i></p><p>Since the agility debuff is on our AE root line, we cannot use this ability on epic mobs. Please allow wardens to cast the root on epic mobs and just allow the debuff portion to apply.</p><p><i>Spore heal proc line</i></p><p>The warden 2 set VP bonus increases the proc chance on our Spores heal line. The problem is we currently have an AA line which also does this, and Spores proc chance is capped at 16%. The VP 2 set bonus is currently wasted as we cannot go over the max proc rate. Suggest that the VP set bonus be changed to increasing the heal amount on Spores instead.</p><p><i>Healing Grove</i>The tree dies from AEs and is therefore very limited in application. Please make the tree AE immune. The size of the tree is also a problem in a raid setting. Please give wardens the option to reduce it to shrub size, even if it is via a fun spell of some sort. The tree heal should also be made raidwide.</p><p><i>Tunare's Watch</i></p><p>The spell somehow missed a T8 upgrade. Please allow it to scale with level like our emergency heals if there are no upgrades intended for it.</p><p><i>Nature's Renewal</i></p><p>The second deathsave trigger does not appear to be healing for the correct amount, and is not taking +heal into account. Furthermore there is some indication that it is actually healing for below the minimum non modified value of the spell on the second death save trigger. </p><p><i>Nature's Pack</i></p><p>The wolf pack should be treated as a dot and not a dumbfire. Having the wolves die instantly on AE, or on a mobs damage shield is just not worth the power cost of casting this spell during a raid.</p><p> <b>End game viability</b></p><p>The main problem wardens face is a lack of end game raid viability due to buff issues. Please refer to this thread for a more detailed discussion as to why this is so. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=421872" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=421872</a></p><p><i>Suggestions for buff fixes:</i></p><p>Sandstorm line: Lack of usefulness on raids due to defence being capped/diminishing returns and the secondary kb/stun not being applicable to epic mobs.Suggestions for a fix are to change the buff to +parry/block, which is uncontested avoidance and will always be useful in a raid setting.</p><p>Thorns/Damage shield. The damage provided by thorns is minimal and only applies to one mob. Suggest that this buff be changed to add a hate/dps modifier. Increase haste of target by 20. Hate gain by 10. Another option is to have thorns reflect damage based on a fixed percentage of what the mob is attacking for. Something like 10% of any melee hit is reflected back on the mob.</p><p>Armour of the seasons. Buffing a measly 300 to all resists is hardly useful given diminishing returns. Compare the secondary effect of the warden mit buff  to defilers who get a 600hp regenerating magical ward, or templars who get +groupwide hps, and it certainly does not stack up. Suggest that this changes to increases the effect of worn armour by 10% for the entire group.</p><p>Aspect of the Hawk Wis/power once again has limited usefulness in end game raiding, given that power pool size and resists mean very little. Suggest this changes to a wis/str/power buff, which at least gives melee wardens some better suited buffs.</p><p>Instinct. Without the VP set bonus, this buff has very little application, due to +skills being subject to diminishing returns, and orange con epic mobs ignoring player skill stats. The VP set bonus is definitely a start to improving this buff, but it is still limited in that the warden can only apply it to one person. Suggest making this buff a conc slot buff, so the warden can choose to buff multiple people.</p><p><b>VP set discussion</b></p><p>2 set bonus is currently not useful due to the proc cap on spores (see above)4 set Good6 set Good</p><p>The one thing wardens request is for the +heal on the pants being moved to the BP, and the BP effect moved to the legs. The reason being is that most wardens would prefer to equip the Abomination Leggings from Leviathan in the leg slot, which means we then give up the extra healing the set legs provide. Moving the healing bonus to the BP gives wardens more flexibility, as we can then equip a pure healing set, or a dps set.</p>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p> -- Edit:  Elyssa is keeping a running tally of salient issues suggested in the rest of this thread in the post above...(FYI) ---</p><p>Awesome post, Elyssa, thank you.   Here are a couple of my thoughts: </p><p>If Nature's Walk is spec'd and the buff is applied, no cure should ever remove a 'root' effect.  Those should just be ignored and should never 'land' as a DoT on any group member,  correct?  (ie, if I have it spec'd and applied I don't want to spend a moment of time 'curing' something that isn't there.)</p><p>T8 Nature's Pack  (at least in adept 3) die as easily as the tree to AoE with mobs over about level 80.   Please fix them to be more durable since they are the visual manifestation of a DoT, not a pet.   An AoE shouldn't destroy them, a cure possibly might?</p><p>The reuse timer on Nature's Renewal is not accurate if spec'd with max Reformation line AA's, it's not reduced. (Tunare's Watch, however, seems to work as promised)    </p><p>There is nowhere (except the promise of the Reformation AA) that states that 2 triggers of either death intervention will happen, and I am not convinced that those 2 promised triggers consistently happen.  (yeah, yeah, no empirical data...just 'seems like' (which is over half your player base, btw ::grin:: ) )</p><p>Cures are (as stated above) a problem.  AAs support the old cure setup (4 cure 'types'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />, and have not changed in any way to reflect the new single 'cure all' update.   Since our Aa's offer an resist to the type of damage cured, it seems backwards to be able to apply the resist AFTER the damage has occurred.  True, it's preventive of the next possible dot that might land - but it also seems that this resistance isn't working for that next DoT, either.   </p><p>Agree - I've never seen Shatter Infections actually work, and I do use it often to see what situational thing I might be missing, or if it truly doesn't work.</p><p>I second Elyssa's request to either let Tunare's Watch scale like our emergency heals (/sigh...there goes a hard-won M1 of it), or an update to the ability.</p><p>Also Seconding Elyssa's request to allow the debuff portion of our roots to be used on epic mobs.  </p><p>I absolutely support the "end game viability" section in the above post.   Please give us some raid usefulness, since at this stage of the game's development and content, it's an important activity to many players.   </p><p>No one wants anyone to lose anything - we'd just like to be brought up to par with the raid usefulness of other healers.   If you think that the usefulness is there and nothing needs to be added or changed, I'd like to point out that min/maxing raid leaders don't agree - and they often see things in player classes that developers either didn't notice or didnt' think of.   </p><p>We need to bring more to the table than minorly useful group buffs, argueably useful single target buffs and heals that are counted 'last' by game mechanics.</p>

[eclipse25]

This really needs a sticky!!! 

[Dragonreal]

The DI double trigger is reflected in the effects list. If you look at it, the spell will say:When target dies this spell will cast Nature's Touch on target. Lasts for 24.0 seconds.    When target dies this spell will cast Nature's Touch on target. Lasts for 24.0 seconds         <Nature's Touch heal info>         Increases wis by xx         Grants a total of 1 trigger of the spell    Increases wis by xx    <heal info again>    Grants a total of 1 trigger of the spellJust tested it in-game and yes it does trigger twice, but I DID find another problem with it. The +30% heal increase only applies to the first trigger; the second trigger reverts back to the spell's original value =/<span style="color: #ffffcc;"></span><span style="color: #ffffcc;">(1215520821)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:21 2008] You draw upon nature's powers of rebirth and renewal.</span>(1215520822)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:22 2008] a frontier bighorn tries to crush YOU, but YOU block.(1215520824)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:24 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 594 crushing damage.(1215520826)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:26 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 479 crushing damage.(1215520826)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:26 2008] You lose consciousness!(1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 481 crushing damage.(1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] You regain consciousness!<span style="color: #ff3300;">(1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 1138 hit points. <Trigger #1; heals for what it should be healing for</span>(1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] You regain consciousness!(1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] Your flourishing health returns to normal.(1215520829)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:29 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 594 crushing damage.(1215520830)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:30 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.(1215520831)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:31 2008] a frontier bighorn tries to crush YOU, but misses.(1215520832)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:32 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.(1215520833)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:33 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 640 crushing damage.(1215520834)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:34 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.(1215520834)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:34 2008] a frontier bighorn tries to crush YOU, but misses.(1215520836)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:36 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.(1215520836)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:36 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 692 crushing damage.(1215520837)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:37 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 536 crushing damage.(1215520837)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:37 2008] You regain consciousness!<span style="color: #ff3300;">(1215520837)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:37 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 640 hit points. <Trigger #2; heals for the spell's original value</span>(1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 530 crushing damage.(1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] You lose consciousness!(1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] You regain consciousness!(1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 160 hit points.(1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] a frontier bighorn's Wild Swing hits YOU for 524 crushing damage.(1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] Your skin returns to normal.(1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] The spirit of the wolf leaves you.(1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] a frontier bighorn has killed you.

[Dragonreal]

Actually looking at my heal numbers there, the spell's healing for LESS than its original value because that's a m1 spell so the original should be in the 800s, not the 600s. So I have no clue what's going on with it but something's definately messed up imo.

[Oakum]

<p>Nice post. One thing added is that our ability to do damage and the equipment to support the CA line is too far below the other druid. Some druids may not care but as one that plays all 3 play styles, I should be able do to a druids damage and not be out damaged in a group or solo by any other healer class then a fury (when not much healing is required).  Even with using our fast small nukes we do subpar damage if int specced. </p><p>That is not a big issue to wardens that only raid/nuke and dont want to do anything else but for the rest of the wardens it is probably more important to contibute something worthwhile to their group when the group is mowing down trash and not much if any healing is required, especially if their are 2 healers in the group and the tank is well geared. </p>

[Dragonreal]

I was actually just thinking about the itemization issue today at work (cuz pulling weeds is SOO brain-intensive =x). I came up with an interesting idea for a fix to it; what if we had an AA (or even add it onto an existing AA) that made it so that any int/spell damage/spell crit on gear that we equipped was converted into its melee counterpart? Even go further and make that AA be a toggle buff so that if you NEED to nuke for whatever reason, you're not stuck with baseline damage. Seems like an easier fix than making druid gear for both specs.

[Arielle Nightshade]

<cite>Dragonrealms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually looking at my heal numbers there, the spell's healing for LESS than its original value because that's a m1 spell so the original should be in the 800s, not the 600s. So I have no clue what's going on with it but something's definately messed up imo.</blockquote><p>Thanks for checking it out Ryala - all I know is: It's not working the way the AA's say it should...it 'seemed like' the second trigger wasn't working, but with your data, the reality is: yes, it's triggering, but for not as much as it should.   I'll buy that  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   All I know is: it is not working as advertised, and I have a lot of AA into that line.</p>

[Sorano]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Have modified the post to incorporate Ryala's data on the seond death save trigger and Arielle's suggestion on the wolf pack.

[Tup]

<span style="color: #ff9900;">Thanks for taking this on Elyssa. I'm not sure how much I have to add, but here I go.I need to go back and pull out my numbers, but it appears that several of our spells are not getting the full benefit of +heals at least if the numbers in the "knowledge" book are refelecting what's actually getting healed (which is hard to tell in a controlled experiment especially with any meaningful crit rate). When I get home tonight I'll dig up my notes and post them. Might be happening to other classes as well, but I only have the char/gear to speak for us.As for Tranquility, while I like the idea behind what they did, I personally don't find it terribly useful in a raid setting. Solo'ers and Group Healers might find it more useful, but in a raid setting healers have "whack-a-cure" beat into them at an early age. The amount of time I can get Tranquility off prior to someone else curing is rare unless everyone is frantically healing to patch up wards or reactives. For the same reason the every 15 seconds is nice, but doesn't do as much in my situation. Don't get me wrong, I always have it up on the MT, you play every card in the deck, but with the cure all change I feel it has lost a bit of usefullness.If AA's were revaluated I'd much rather see it shorten the casting time so we can get it off as fast as a standard cure. But that's just me. Regardless, the entire Cure Line needs to be reevaluated in my humble opinion.</span>

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Tuple wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ffcc00;">If AA's were revaluated I'd much rather see it shorten the casting time so we can get it off as fast a standard cure. But that's just me. Regardless, the entire Cure Line needs to be reevaluated in my humble opinion.</span></blockquote>This! I honestly don't see the point of having tranquility's recast time reduced by any less than 30s and even then.. meh. The effect lasts as long as the duration so really there's no reason to give it a lesser recast imo. Would be much better to have its cast time reduced to make it more valuable as an actual cure. And the cure tree REALLY needs redoing.. even if the tranquility AA was changed for reduced cast time, I still don't think I'd get it just because the only access to it is through the cures and those AAs just aren't worth the investment at all.

[Tup]

<span style="color: #ff9900;">Bah, looks like my file got deleted in a fit of overzealous cleaning.  I'll start reconstructing, but if I remember correctly some of our single targets were fine, none of our group targets were not (and that's taking into account the divide by 3 not 2 rule) and our "special" heals (Tranquility, DI, Hierophantic Prov, Emergency Heals) were all over the board.</span>

[Meirril]

<cite>Dragonrealms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tuple wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ffcc00;">If AA's were revaluated I'd much rather see it shorten the casting time so we can get it off as fast a standard cure. But that's just me. Regardless, the entire Cure Line needs to be reevaluated in my humble opinion.</span></blockquote>This! I honestly don't see the point of having tranquility's recast time reduced by any less than 30s and even then.. meh. The effect lasts as long as the duration so really there's no reason to give it a lesser recast imo. Would be much better to have its cast time reduced to make it more valuable as an actual cure. And the cure tree REALLY needs redoing.. even if the tranquility AA was changed for reduced cast time, I still don't think I'd get it just because the only access to it is through the cures and those AAs just aren't worth the investment at all.</blockquote>Tuple said cast time. Not recast. I agree with Tuple. Tranquility's long cast time means I can't get the full benifit from this spell if I'm in a group with another healer. So far the only thing its been good for is casting it on me when I know we're fighting mobs that group stiffle.

[Dragonreal]

yes he said cast time.. and I agree that cast time reduction is what's needed. What I was saying is that they need to change the current AA that reduces the REcast time and make it reduce cast time instead.

[Sorano]

<p>Tranquility/Purity is a strange one. I think they originally made it a 1.5 second cast due to it removing 4 effects at once, but now that all priests can do that, it should drop to a 1 second cast time.</p><p>There is also another problem with the Tranquility line. You cast it and then cannot cast it again for 1 min (45 secs if AA specced). Of course it is then going to tick every 15 seconds during that minute, but since detrimentals randomly hit, you cannot guarantee that the cure is going to tick at exactly the right time to be effective. In fact it's a 1 in 15 chance that it will, which is rather tiny. The majority of the time it is just wasted as you cannot afford to wait for it to cure. I have even tested it out on the drakes in VP. I put it on myself and stood in range to get hit with the trauma stun. Purity rarely ticked in time to clear the trauma before it dropped off on its own. </p><p>I believe the main issue is that a 15 second interval is just too long. I think it needs to be a 10 second window. That is still going to mean that there is only a 1 in 10 chance that it is going to tick at the right time, but I think it will improve the spell from its current state.</p><p>I have also seen the changes to the Inquisitor mythical clicky. They get group wide Tranquility (cure+heal) that they can cast every 15 seconds. Whenever they choose to.</p>

[gatrm]

<p>Just change tranquillity so that it has 4 ticks.  Anytime an effect is on the target, within the 1 minute duration, as long as ticks are available, it will proc, removing the effect(s) and healing.  Then you could keep the AAs in tranquillity as they are- the reuse would actually be useful, and it wouldn't matter as much if other  healers cure before you finish casting...tranquillity will be up and it's guaranteed to proc next time the target gets an effect on them.</p>

[Oakum]

<p>If making the Faerie not target dead group/raid members is too hard to fix, they could just make it give a 30% health and power rez. </p><p>EDIT: </p><p>Since its been stickied, its obvious that a Forum mod seen the thread, too bad we will never know if a dev who can fix our problems has actually seen it like the other classes got responses from. </p>

[Sorano]

How hard is it to make sure that negative hitpoints or hp values less than 0 are ignored by the Faery. Yes that will mean that people on unconsious health are not healed, but I will take that anyday over the useless camping of dead toons.

[tendo2]

<p>I sort of reminesce about the old Nature's walk AA ability.  I think the ol' Knockback protection can be far more useful than root immunity.   Even if it only reduces the KB distance a significant percentage but, then why can't it do it both.  My understanding at the time this was changed was because of PVP balance issues.  Imagine the drakes in VP as an example no crazy long pulls or booting from the bridge the warden's group can stand toe to toe and stick to that mob while other groups have to line up and hope they don't get knocked in a bad direction.</p><p>Just a thought.  It's a great list of issues though.  I tend to feel that way with alot of them (especially the messed up AA abilities we seem to have atm)</p><p> I've often wondered as well did Tort shell suffer some serious typo when it was created when you look at other AE immunity abilities they have superior effect range and don't sacrifice the ability to cast while in effect.</p>

[Oakum]

<cite>tendo2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <b>I've often wondered as well did Tort shell suffer some serious typo when it was created when you look at other AE immunity abilities they have superior effect range and don't sacrifice the ability to cast while in effect.</b></p></blockquote>They were probably worried about overpowering fury's and the effects on wardens were just collateral damage and wardens are expendable anyway, or at least that is what it seems like <strike>sometimes</strike> a lot of the time, lol.

[Odys]

I kind of double posted since i started a t8 newbie thread. Funny to see that my concerns are almost all shared by high end raiders. Is there anyone in charge of the warden class? I see no official answer there, do i need to roll an assassin and post a threadin the general forum about how warden are overpowered to get an immediate official answer stating that yes the nerf is coming?

[Aeralik]

<p>I just fixed Shatter Infections to work properly and cure the person who falls below 50%.  While I was at it I also factored out the dead people from the Faerie Ally script.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just fixed Shatter Infections to work properly and cure the person who falls below 50%.  While I was at it I also factored out the dead people from the Faerie Ally script.</p></blockquote><p>Hurrah, no more Faerie Ally desperately trying to heal the corpse. It's nice that Shatter Infections will now work... for those burning all those AAs to get to it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> (I know, cure line is something you're going to be looking at over the time up to the expansion). Still good to see some old bugs fixed.</p><p>Is this going in with the reuglar tuesday hotfix, or the next GU?</p>

[Aule]

Lol, it only took a year.

[snowli]

<p>Level 80 spells should be something you are excited about, they should be an asset to the class and give a feeling of achievement to reach. They should either be regularly useful, or situationally excellant. The Warden 80 spell fails on all front by my estimation.</p><p>It dies almost instantly to aoe damage. <strong>Fairy should be AOE immune.</strong></p><p>It never usefully heals anyone in practise because it spends all it's time trying to decide who to start flying towards this second, and rarely actually does any healing because of constantly flying towards places it won't be needed by the time it eventually arrives. <strong>Fairy should heal zonewide while it's moving (moving faster too), moving/travelling should not prevent it from healing.</strong></p><p>It's not even worth casting to maybe heal you up while travelling while questing for example, as it's only ever flying to where you used to be never actually healing, and it doesn't do enough healing to make any real difference to success or failure in combat.</p><p>Our level 80 spell isn't really much more use than a fluff pet, and it's not worth casting in combat because all our other spells are nearly always more useful.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>snowline wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Level 80 spells should be something you are excited about, they should be an asset to the class and give a feeling of achievement to reach. They should either be regularly useful, or situationally excellant. The Warden 80 spell fails on all front by my estimation.</p><p>It dies almost instantly to aoe damage. <strong>Fairy should be AOE immune.</strong></p><p>It never usefully heals anyone in practise because it spends all it's time trying to decide who to start flying towards this second, and rarely actually does any healing because of constantly flying towards places it won't be needed by the time it eventually arrives. <strong>Fairy should heal zonewide while it's moving (moving faster too), moving/travelling should not prevent it from healing.</strong></p><p>It's not even worth casting to maybe heal you up while travelling while questing for example, as it's only ever flying to where you used to be never actually healing, and it doesn't do enough healing to make any real difference to success or failure in combat.</p><p>Our level 80 spell isn't really much more use than a fluff pet, and it's not worth casting in combat because all our other spells are nearly always more useful.</p></blockquote><p>I find the only times I really cast it is when I'm soloing (to let it heal while I melee) or right before pulls. Rarely ever do I feel the desire to cast it mid-fight... like you said, it spends more time running around looking for someone to heal that it seems to actually spend healing. It's AE heal on death is basically a small AE heal the first time the mob AEs, since (like you said) the faerie tends to die rather easily.</p>

[Stobo DarkSky]

<p>I agree the Cure line needs to be fixed. It should clear all harmful effects not just 1 of each type. When the Vespids pets in KJ are unleashed upon you the Nox hits add up too fast to be cured since the possible cure only clears the one nox. But you may not even get the one cure since the spell is interruptable. Dayanara and it's pet's do the mega-stacking of Nox as well.</p><p>Verdjious Journey <sp>should become an instant/uninterruptable just like it used to be in M1 form. (I hated losing that Master).</p><p>Warden AA Line - the upgrades of Dawnstrike, Icefall Strike, Frostbite Slice, and Whirl of Permafrost all need to be on separate timers than the orignal spells; otherwise they are 20 wasted AA points just to get Force of nature. Force of nature also seems to be a complete waste since we do so little DPS.</p><p>Dust cloud used to have a 10% easier to target enemy - now it's a useless identify a friend spell like Rebo's Encircling Runes.</p><p>Serenity should have a recast time of 1 minute or less or be instacast when dealing with multiple Nox hits.</p><p>Verdant Whisper (Enhanced Rank 5) and Expert original - All damage should be equal at 1050 or more, not split with one mitigating 530 damage and the others 1050. I also think the 3 hit's should be changed to a higher level since pet's and add's usually never come out as a group of three.</p><p>Tunare's Diety Pet - Oboy, I get 16 WIS and AGI. How does this pet compare to other Diety pets? There is a bug with this pet - when you cast the Fairy healing pet your Diety pet goes away and if you try to recast your diety pet the healer goes away.</p>

[Xendo]

<p>Well shoot it wasn't mentioned so I'm posting it up here.  Take a peek at Frostbite Slice (CA) and compare it to the spell Frostbite it fails in nearly every aspect.  I'm used to the whole rank 5 CA vs. master spell and understand why its setup that way.</p><p>The duration difference on the CA in and by itself makes it less desireable as an ability.  However, to further add insult to injury the reduced duration also ended up completely removing 2 ticks of damage when comparing the two. </p><p>I suggest as a solution to either extend the duration up to 24 secs but that may also require re-evualting the recast time.  I'm open to extending the duration to say 18 seconds and have the ticks land every 3 seconds instead of 4.  If not perhaps, boosting the Initial damage or the tick damage to make up for the missing 2 ticks.  Only I feel leaving it at 4 ticks might throw off some folks expectations if they don't read carefully.  Ultimately, it's your call but the 2 things that are of concern is.  First, the length of the debuff duration, as well as it's relation to it's recast time.  Second, the loss of the damage from the missing ticks.    </p><p>In any case I always thought it was fairly well known that this CA fell way short of the mark and surprised to not see any mention of it after I expressed my hopes of a Frostbite being a M2 choice in another thread (the only nuke I won't melee because this little issue.)       </p>

[neennas]

<p>BUG</p><p>Tranquility not curing correctly. If I cast it on person without a effect it doesn't come-up in my maintained window so dont think it is casting on person. also if i cast it on a person with an effect it cures the first time on cast but doesnt stay up finishing its cycle. If i cast it on myself it does come up on maintained but as soon as it cures a effect it stops working.</p><p>Have bugged in game</p>

[Xendo]

<p>I dunno about how well it works on other ppl but i know it does indeed fact work when casted on myself.  I use this when I solo all the time.  The reason you may not notice it is because you'll have to look for it in their effects window.  Then the cure thing really only triggers every 15 secs so if there is nothing to cure at exactly that point it doesn't do anything.  It was seldom likely an effect is on someone is still on at that exact second especially when more and more healers are thrown into the mix.  If they can give this the rollover heal treatment when they change HoTs that would be beyond great.  In its current form it's like hitting the lottery sometimes.</p><p>  </p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Bramia@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BUG</p><p>Tranquility not curing correctly. If I cast it on person without a effect it doesn't come-up in my maintained window so dont think it is casting on person. also if i cast it on a person with an effect it cures the first time on cast but doesnt stay up finishing its cycle. If i cast it on myself it does come up on maintained but as soon as it cures a effect it stops working.</p><p>Have bugged in game</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure about that? I'll have to check in game, but tranquility seemed to be working fine for me, I use it all the time. It does not come up in the maintained window, but it's there. When cast on someone else, it cures the first and then sits in the background... every 15s it attempts to cure if there is anything to cure (until it expires that is).</p><p>I can double check, but I have seen nothing buggy at all about Tranquility.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Stobo DarkSky wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree the Cure line needs to be fixed. It should clear all harmful effects not just 1 of each type. When the Vespids pets in KJ are unleashed upon you the Nox hits add up too fast to be cured since the possible cure only clears the one nox. But you may not even get the one cure since the spell is interruptable. Dayanara and it's pet's do the mega-stacking of Nox as well.</p><p>Verdjious Journey should become an instant/uninterruptable just like it used to be in M1 form. (I hated losing that Master).</p><p>Warden AA Line - the upgrades of Dawnstrike, Icefall Strike, Frostbite Slice, and Whirl of Permafrost all need to be on separate timers than the orignal spells; otherwise they are 20 wasted AA points just to get Force of nature. Force of nature also seems to be a complete waste since we do so little DPS.</p><p>Dust cloud used to have a 10% easier to target enemy - now it's a useless identify a friend spell like Rebo's Encircling Runes.</p><p>Serenity should have a recast time of 1 minute or less or be instacast when dealing with multiple Nox hits.</p><p>Verdant Whisper (Enhanced Rank 5) and Expert original - All damage should be equal at 1050 or more, not split with one mitigating 530 damage and the others 1050. I also think the 3 hit's should be changed to a higher level since pet's and add's usually never come out as a group of three.</p><p>Tunare's Diety Pet - Oboy, I get 16 WIS and AGI. How does this pet compare to other Diety pets? There is a bug with this pet - when you cast the Fairy healing pet your Diety pet goes away and if you try to recast your diety pet the healer goes away.</p></blockquote><p>Cure line will be getting changed, all cure AAs are getting looked at, should be done with/by SF.</p><p>Evac should be uninterruptable, I can understand it having cast time though. And yeah, I had that master too back in the day.</p><p>CA AAs -- if they were on separate timers, it'd probably be considered overpowered since they are designed as replacements for the nukes. What they SHOULD do is see what quality of spell you had that they are replacing and scale accordingly -- if you've got an Apprentice spell, the CA does the least damage, but a Master spell should boost the CA damage. Otherwise, what the heck is the point of us getting those spells mastered? (Well besides crazies like me that like to be fully mastered over all their spells).</p><p>Dust Cloud -- I don't remember it having that effect, but it's a fun spell so it should not give any bonuses. Unless you are talking about Sandstorm (The group defense buff that roots you)?</p><p>Serenity -- Yes, it probably should have a shorter recast in order to make it more valuable. I got rid of it long ago, since it was in a line I no longer use.</p><p>Enhance: Verdant Whisper -- cure line is getting changed, so we have to wait and see how this gets changed.</p><p>And lastly, diety pets in general suck pretty bad. I don't know about the whole diety pet disappearing thing though -- is the buff disappearing, or just the visual representation of it?</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><em>Warden AA Line - the upgrades of Dawnstrike, Icefall Strike, Frostbite Slice, and Whirl of Permafrost all need to be on separate timers than the orignal spells; otherwise they are 20 wasted AA points just to get Force of nature. Force of nature also seems to be a complete waste since we do so little DPS.</em></p><p>I can't even begin to address how noob this statement is.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p><p><em>Serenity should .... be instacast when dealing with multiple Nox hits.</em></p><p>[Removed for Content]?  What does noxious have to do with anything..</p><p><em>I also think the 3 hit's should be changed to a higher level since pet's and add's usually never come out as a group of three.</em></p><p>........?  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p><p><em>There is a bug with this pet - when you cast the Fairy healing pet your Diety pet goes away and if you try to recast your diety pet the healer goes away.</em></p><p>lol?</p><p>I don't know what to say to this stuff, I don't think I'm even playing the same game as this dude..</p>

[neennas]

<p>I have tested casting on the tank before a pull and seeing if it cured during the fight and it never did. it used to appear in my casted and maintained window and now it doesnt. and when I cast it on myself when I get a effect it cures it but then stops. there are a couple wardens in my guild that have noticed it not working correctly either. honestly I didnt notice it till I paid close attention to it</p>

[Huntress Jellica]

<p>Tranquility seems to be working fine. On Sunday (9/6/09) I was with a zerker in Mistmyr Manor pulling whole rooms. With that many mobs there's really not enough time to cure so I cast Tranquility on the tank and had 3 effects cured and his health went up a lot. 15 seconds later (as the spell description indicates) 2 detrimentals were removed from the tank and his health went up again. So the spell IS working, but the chances of having detrimentals on the tank at exactly 15 seconds after the spell initially lands are very slim.</p><p>As someone mentioned previously, if the spell was changed to work like our "rollover" heals, it would be much more usefull.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>Tranquility should tick every 5 seconds instead of 15 IMO.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tranquility should tick every 5 seconds instead of 15 IMO.</p></blockquote><p>That would be pretty awesome. Even if it meant reducing the duration and recast to 20s instead of the 60s they are now, to match.</p>

[Stobo DarkSky]

<p>Lol, it looks like the resident Troll has decided to expouse his views in this tread!</p><p>Some have said they really don't use the healer pet(80); I use everything I can since it will work sometimes.</p><p>The CA's I mentioned should be on seperate timers and an increase in damage since they consume AA. I have not bought M1's for a lot of my endgame spells since everytime I turn around spell names have changed and the M1 was downgraded to Expert or worse.</p><p>In regards to the Warden cure line how does it compare to the cures of other healers? I'm beginning to get kicked out of groups/raids because other healers can cure better than me. I'm not used to being referred to as a cure bot as the only useful thing I bring to a raid/group.</p><p>I refer to Serenity since it seems to me that Nox hits are cycling faster than other dots. This is another spell that will work as intended sometimes.</p><p>I, for one, am getting tired of a lot of spells that are useless since they don't affect Epic - Since most end game content has Epic's in the Heroic Instances all of the Root/Snare line should be viewed as bugged.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><cite>Stobo DarkSky wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have not bought M1's for a lot of my endgame spells since everytime I turn around spell names have changed and the M1 was downgraded to Expert or worse.</p></blockquote><p>Oh yeah?  Name one of those spells.  I'm really curious, you say it's happening to alot of them but I'll settle for just one.</p>

[Kkolbe]

<p>I don't think I'll be dusting off my warden anytime soon. The class has become insanely boring to me. Maybe when SF comes out I''ll start playing him again, but seriously warden's are endgame fail. It is such a dirty trick too, wardens kick butt leveling all the way up too 80, then you hit 80 and its like oh, warden's suck now, time to reroll. Last time I remember wardens being worthwhile was either kos or shortly in rok.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stobo DarkSky wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have not bought M1's for a lot of my endgame spells since everytime I turn around spell names have changed and the M1 was downgraded to Expert or worse.</p></blockquote><p>Oh yeah?  Name one of those spells.  I'm really curious, you say it's happening to alot of them but I'll settle for just one.</p></blockquote><p>I can say right now, none. I have every single master in the game, and when they changed spell naming not a single one was downgraded. Why would they, that would be pointless and annoying. So not sure where you're getting that info from, Stobo.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>Yeah, I'm not believing him at all either.  If anything, it works the other way and you get a free master of a top tier spell when a spell line is consolidated.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Stobo DarkSky wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lol, it looks like the resident Troll has decided to expouse his views in this tread!</p><p>Some have said they really don't use the healer pet(80); I use everything I can since it will work sometimes.</p><p>The CA's I mentioned should be on seperate timers and an increase in damage since they consume AA. I have not bought M1's for a lot of my endgame spells since everytime I turn around spell names have changed and the M1 was downgraded to Expert or worse.</p><p>In regards to the Warden cure line how does it compare to the cures of other healers? I'm beginning to get kicked out of groups/raids because other healers can cure better than me. I'm not used to being referred to as a cure bot as the only useful thing I bring to a raid/group.</p><p>I refer to Serenity since it seems to me that Nox hits are cycling faster than other dots. This is another spell that will work as intended sometimes.</p><p>I, for one, am getting tired of a lot of spells that are useless since they don't affect Epic - Since most end game content has Epic's in the Heroic Instances all of the Root/Snare line should be viewed as bugged.</p></blockquote><p>You do realize that for 20AA points spent in the 4 convert a spell to a melee abilities it perty much means you don't have to purchse any offensive spells because spell quality doesn't affect your AA abilities? Now most melee wardens do buy their nukes as well because there are times you don't want to close to melee range, but its not like the AA is wasted. You get plenty of use out of them. If anything if you have the AA spent in melee abilities, the plat spent on masters is wasted.</p><p>Any time I think its going to be a tough pull, I pop the fairy out. While the tree dies if anything casts an AoE, the fairy can put up with one small one. I think it even heals itself. Either way, it makes a difference when things get tough and considering that an epic warden shouldn't care about power cost there is no drawback to precasting the fairy (or even the tree)</p><p>Our cure spell is the same as every other priest's cure spell. However, our group cure isn't as good as the others. Elemental is not a common effect. Trauma generally only hits one target. Its rare that our ability to cure both turns out to be good. Noxious and Magic are much, much more desirable as group cures and just about every other priest in the game has one, or both, as components of their group cure.</p><p>Our AA line is suppose to boost the related defense. The duration is minimal, the boost is minimal, and it doesn't even lats the full duration but for the first 3 hits. It use to be we could "preward" with the individual cures, but now we can't even do that. Other priest's cure lines were similarly nerfed when all 4 cures combined into one spell so we're not alone here. We know this is getting looked at, lets just hope the fix doesn't suck as much as the origional line does.</p><p>Serenity? That's the wisdom AA line end ability right? "Get out of stiffle/stun now" button? Or am I thinking of the wrong spell? Someone help me out here.</p><p>And if your tired of your roots not working on epic mobs, think how enchanters feel. They can't mez epic mobs. Their stuns and stiffles have 1/10 the normal duration AND a long cooldown timer versus epic mobs. All control effects are drastically reduced or don't work on epic mobs.</p><p>Then again, they are EPIC mobs. Bring the recommended number of groups with you and do it right. If you need to park a mob, that is what the off tank group is for. While I realize that roots are helpful when it comes to soloing and some group encounters, its not a raiding tool by dev design. Live with it.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think I'll be dusting off my warden anytime soon. The class has become insanely boring to me. Maybe when SF comes out I''ll start playing him again, but seriously warden's are endgame fail. It is such a dirty trick too, wardens kick butt leveling all the way up too 80, then you hit 80 and its like oh, warden's suck now, time to reroll. Last time I remember wardens being worthwhile was either kos or shortly in rok.</p></blockquote><p>We suck? Eh?</p><p>Wardens can solo heal all of the group content, without shard armor or an epic. I suppose it might get a bit booring clearing trash when you do have your shard armor and mythical, but you still have to pay attention since we actually heal instead of prevent damage like the other priest archatypes.</p><p>Now when it comes to raiding...the lack of utility spells and debuffs shows. While the other priest classes can't heal as well as a warden, their buffs/debuffs plus their healing ability taken together out weigh our ability to heal. Our ability to do DPS is meaningless in a tight raiding group simply because dedicated healers do nothing but heal/debuff/cure and the dedicated DPS blow us all away with DPS+utility we can't even come close to.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><em>Serenity? That's the wisdom AA line end ability right? "Get out of stiffle/stun now" button? Or am I thinking of the wrong spell? Someone help me out here.</em></p><p>It's the stamina endline, and it breaks stuns, not stifles.</p>

[neennas]

<p>ok after going over all my log's looks like tranquility is working correctly (other then previous bug) It just isnt showing up in maintained or casted spells like it used to</p>

[snowli]

<p>20% runspeed SoW's overwriting 45% runspeed SoW, from shamans and fury's, I'd like to see that fixed so only higher % runspeed SoW can overwrite another SoW.</p>

[Xendo]

<p>I'll admit you have a point of not actually requireing nuke spells since the CAs are not in any way affected by the rank of the spell.  You can still do nicely as a healer while being limited to CAs and having no nukes.  Well actually, you can still do nicely as a healer without any CAs or Spells.  Although Soloing would take forever and grouping would be rather boring. </p><p>I still think though the Frostbite spells are more worthwhile to have/use over the CA counterpart due to the differences between the two.  But would you "Need" it?  No.  </p><p>P.S. OMG don't derail a sticky (even if it's over a year old)</p><p>P.P.S. Frostbite Slice (cough) </p>

[Stobo DarkSky]

<p>It looks like the cures have been fixed somewhat earlier this week. Now this spell cures all dots placed on you at one time. Cure used to only take care of one nox and one dot of the other types. When the spell cycles  you'll see CURE on the screen; if more than one dot has been cured you'll see more than one CURE.</p>

[Stobo DarkSky]

<p>I'm wondering if Duststorm/Sandstorm is working correctly? Even though the knockdown effect does not affect Epic's, why can these guys knock a rooted Warden across the room? Does the Group defense actually work when dealing with an Epic?</p>

[Jillybean]

<p>The thing with sandstorm is that you cannot move of your own accord, it never says anything about the mob not being able to move you with knockbacks.</p>

[Stobo DarkSky]

<p>Looks like I spoke too soon - cure is back to curing ony 1 dot of each type at a time. If you have 2 or more Nox dot's on you each cure will remove one nox. Still bad when you encounter the Cosm Vespids in KJ - their pets hit you multiple times with Nox dots faster than you can cure them.</p><p>I was gone from EQ2 for 18 Months due to RL issues. I had most masters up to lvl 66 prior to my leaving; upon my return I had few masters left.</p><p>I have 7 alt's and my original is my Warden - for all the fault's I still prefer the Warden as a solo'er even if SoE still doesn't know what a Druid class is supposed to be.</p><p>When I cannot get into groups I go back to the original standby - doing writs.</p>

[Disarm]

<p>Our tree is bugged in PVP combat.  On a red server your not allowed to "assist" folks that are outside your pvp level range and locked into pvp combat.  Well our tree does not care about such restrictions, it heals everyone in the area regardless of level.  Totally a cheap trick to drop the tree in the middle of a bunch of level 10's/20's banging away at each other and watch it start healing folks.</p><p>Before we start asking for Tranquility to be changed/improved it would be nice if it just logged what it cured and how much it healed for.</p>

[Vopurr]

<p>Infusion would be more useful if it only applied to mobs that you are in combat with at the time.  I don't consider a mob that I am not engaged with an 'enemy' as stated in the spell details.  If it is going to be like an AOE and go through walls and attack mobs that you aren't in combat with then you might as well make it an AOE.  I'm getting one-shot all the time because I use it near guards or non-aggressive mobs.  It gets tiring running around avoiding random mobs that walk into my fighting so I don't get 5 mobs on me at once ever time you heal or cure.  Just a wish.</p><p>Thanks.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><cite>snowline wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>20% runspeed SoW's overwriting 45% runspeed SoW, from shamans and fury's, I'd like to see that fixed so only higher % runspeed SoW can overwrite another SoW.</p></blockquote><p>This is extremely irritating and should be fixed.</p><p>And Rebirth still triggers and is wasted when we save ourselves with our castable DPs.</p>

[Hogatha]

<p><cite>Vokodo@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Infusion would be more useful if it only applied to mobs that you are in combat with at the time.  I don't consider a mob that I am not engaged with an 'enemy' as stated in the spell details.  If it is going to be like an AOE and go through walls and attack mobs that you aren't in combat with then you might as well make it an AOE.  I'm getting one-shot all the time because I use it near guards or non-aggressive mobs.  It gets tiring running around avoiding random mobs that walk into my fighting so I don't get 5 mobs on me at once ever time you heal or cure.  Just a wish.</p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>/Agree 100%  Infusion, which would otherwise be quite useful (and costs an extra 2 points), is really utterly pointless as I end up getting unneccessary aggro at  the most inconvenient times.  Make it an encounter only reactive buff and it would actually be decent. </p>

[Rosvita]

<p>I noticed its been quite a while since this was updated, hope this is still checked however.</p><p>A bug that i did a /bug report on a while ago that i haven't seen updated is a crit bug on our group heals.  If a group member isn't in range for the initial heal but then comes into range for the ticks, the heal never crits on that person even if you have over 100% critical chance.</p>

[Rosvita]

<p>A new one introduced by DoV - Spirit of the Bat is now only castable as a self buff.</p>