Sittable chairs? Sleepable beds?

[Grol]

Hello!OK.. this one seemed a toss-up with this forum and the look and feel to me.. so I put it here.. iono which is proper. ANYWAYDoes anyone think there's any chance of getting any sort of interactable house furnishings? Like chairs we can actually sit in, beds that we can lie in.. that sorta stuff? I mean sure, decorating a house is fun, and they're good for broker slots.. but other than that they don't serve too much of a purpose.Show off your trophies, pets, decorating skills, etc. But that's it, and it seems to me a house should at least be able to be interacted with a <i>tiny</i> bit. Justa few sit options is all I'm askin for.. tired of guildies sitting on their knees in chairs and such, and someone in the norrathian homeshow forum made a small chapel.. the guests are gonna either have to sit on the floor, stand, or sit funky on benches so that they hang over the edge.... while that's fine and dandy for some, I'd really love to be able to actually sit for once. I think my Conjuror would too.. his knees are starting to hurt, c'mon!So.. anyone think there's any chance whatsoever of seeing this? Ever?

[Transen]

<img src="http://gapyx.com/cmt/2006/11/critic_beating_dead_horse.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

[Raznor2]

<p>Heh sure is a dead horse but yeah it'd be nice.  I always wanted a playable chess board and for the pieces to stay in place if you and your friend stopped midgame.  It'd look great and be real immersive.</p><p>~Raithan </p>

[ke'la]

<p>A dev accually responed to this once, and the answer is something to the effect of:</p><p>Being able to sit/liedown in chairs or on beds is a core mechanic of the game, and has to be built in at the start of Development. The First Devs to work on EQ2 did not deem Sitting/Lieing importaint so they did not included it in the game design, as such they can not add it now, with out a HUGE amount of dev time put into it, because they would have to basicly recode the base engine of the game.</p>

[Rothgar]

The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Freydinessa]

<cite>Transen wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://gapyx.com/cmt/2006/11/critic_beating_dead_horse.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></blockquote>So Apt, so very apt. Well done Transen.Edit: If there's an award for post of the year, this 1000 words gets my vote

[AratornCalahn]

Just imagine what would happen when a big fat orge tried to sit on a chair made for a gnome... *chrunch*Thats the real reason why the devs don't do it - the players would be complaning about all the broken chairs they have to replace... And of course eventualy the devs would cave in and give everyone with a chair in thier inventory 3 plat per chair and introduce new mastercrafted chairs that are made out of high tier rare metals to keep them strong but the recipy would be on a faction merchant no one bothered to level! And then all will happen is the froums would be filled with whines "I have been slapped in the face by the devs! They did not tell me 3 years ago I would need to level this faction!", "I was out of town when they gave out the platz!! I forgot to load up my inv and gain 300 free plats?!?! I ONLY GOT 30 PLAT! THIS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE!!" and "I have 43 accounts devs! HOW DARE you slay me in the face with your bait and switch chair conspiricy. I demand a STOOL I can sit on, and a working rocking chair minigame!".Its just to much hassle.

[Amphibia]

I think it's fine the way it is. Ok, so you can't sit in the chair or lie on in the bed... but hey, you can at least make it look nice? And look at the size of most of that furniture - almost all of it look like it would only fit the smaller races. I have a high elf and a froglok. The high elf is about the size of a human, maybe a little taller. I've seen maybe 2-3 beds that would fit for him. The little frog on the other hand, would fit into just about everything. So even if this wasn't complicated (which Rothgar has already stated that it is, and given a very good explanation as to why), it would also be a little unfair towards to bigger races. I mean, does the chair exist in the game that would be big enough for an ogre? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Thuriel]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A dev accually responed to this once, and the answer is something to the effect of:</p><p>Being able to sit/liedown in chairs or on beds is a core mechanic of the game, and has to be built in at the start of Development. The First Devs to work on EQ2 did not deem Sitting/Lieing importaint so they did not included it in the game design, as such they can not add it now, with out a HUGE amount of dev time put into it, because they would have to basicly recode the base engine of the game.</p></blockquote>I think that's the answer to the question about armor tinting, a different dead horse.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Thuriel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I think that's the answer to the question about armor tinting, a different dead horse.</blockquote>Different horse... but just as dead.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.</blockquote>Personally, I'd rather see some very lacking tradeskill classes get some loving before I see ANYTHING more done with furniture.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.</blockquote>Personally, I'd rather see some very lacking tradeskill classes get some loving before I see ANYTHING more done with furniture.</blockquote>Responded to this in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=409527" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this thread</a> instead, as that forum was more appropriate.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>doesnt seem trivial to me, but not overly hard either really. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just time consuming. Hehe.

[MysticTrunks01]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>All good points and what i figured, however...It would be possible to take all the chairs in places like Qeynos and replace them with stools and benches at tables.  At least this way we can use the already ingame sit command and actually use some of the great places you guys have created.The Tavern in Qeynos Harbor at the dock for instance.  GREAT looking place, but all the chairs are pulled into the tables making it completely worthless.  i'm sure it may be a bit more complicated than it seems, but it's far less complicated than making sit animations for chairs.Stools and benches... just sayin'.

[Grol]

<p>Figured it'd been asked afore, but apparently my forum searching skills suck.. anyway</p><p>Sitting and lying down does not have to be built in from the start.. I'm sorry but no. It's a simple matter of making animations, and having those items trigger the animations. Pretty simple really. And the animations themselves truly aren't that hard to modify for different races (To avoid limb intersection and the like.)</p><p>It's a pretty simple fix it would seem. Interactable items exist, just make one more interaction.</p><p>And about the sizes and such, aye, sure, that would look funny, but then again it's up to the player. An ogre could sit in a gnome chair if they wanted, and a super strong one (They must be, cause y'know.. they just must) wouldn't break, but that ogre would be rather squished. In fact, since most of the models use the same skeletal system, they could almost all use the same sit animation, just barely modified, with another for Sarnak, and anything else that doesn't use the same system (Are there any?) If you wanna look silly, be my guest is what I'm saying, but hey.. maybe an ogre would wanna feel even bigger than they are, and this could offer the 'feet hanging off the bed' thing like in real life anyway. (I'm really tall.. I know all bout that one lol)</p><p>Anyway.. would just be nice to see is all, and technically speaking, it seems they're playing it off as much, much harder than it is. Either that, or they really programmed a horrible thing, in my mind.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

Eh, my bruiser can FD and flop on her bed just fine.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[greenmantle]

<cite>Transen wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://gapyx.com/cmt/2006/11/critic_beating_dead_horse.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="400" height="233" /></blockquote>No wait i think the ear twitched. Would be nice though i guess thats why it keeps coming up.

[Freydinessa]

Somewhat of a compromise to the solution would be to make all the chairs act like stools for the purposes of siting. They'd still have their backs on them, you'd just be able to pass through them, like we can do each other. So visually there would be no difference at all. That way at least when we kneel on a chair we might then actually appear to be touching it and on top of it, rather than hovering a cog or two above and out from it ~shrug~. That certainly wouldn't require any major changes i believe.

[Cragger]

    Rothgar, I would believe you if it wasn't for the fact that you have another title under the SOE banner called Star Wars Galaxies. There they have had sitting and various styles of sitting on and in furniture in the game for a very long time. And if you want to talk size difference try a Wookie versus a Bothan, all of customizable height,girth,chest,legs, you name it. And yet every imaginable combination for every race works in every piece of furniture. So it is not impossible, it is not impractical, it is simply you and you and those over you do not with to devote any reasources to it at all.    I believe you could do it if you so wished. And if you couldn't figure it out you could head on over to the SWG offices and find out possible methods of doing it. But this like actual diverse armor and clothing models that aren't just the same 5 models retextured and re alpha cut would consume time money which everyone knows is in short supply in SOE these days.

[Grol]

<p>I just ralized who Rothgar was lol..oops</p><p>Anyway, the game can tell how tall yuo are somehow, can't it? They have a height in some form of units. Maybe just give chairs a limit to the sizes who can sit in it. Such as if the chair is 2 feet from the ground (The seat bit I mean) then an ogre who is 8 ft tall can't sith there, or 6ft+ can't. I can't believe that there is no parameter saying how tall the character is, because if there wasn't, you'd be a different height every time you logged in!</p>

[RoXx]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;">I fail to see the problem. Please listen to what I have to say Rothgar:</span></p><p>We have horses, wargs, carpets, rhinos. All scaling to the race that uses them. Why would chairs be anything different? Just let the chair scale to the person that attmepts to sit in it?As for beds, how hard can it be? Classes with FD already have this luxuary. Just make it so that when a person clicks the bed, he/she will "FD" in it. </p><p>NO magics needed! If you see things as oppertunities instead of obstacles, things become so much easier! I beg of you to listen to me. I have been fighting for this cause since release. And while most people dont look upon this as important, it is VERY important to the portion of us that likes to roleplay. It does NOT matter if it will be a bit buggy. I would "die" to get just the chance for anything like this.</p><p>A guild meeting would be something different with everyone sitting around a table, instead of sitting on the floor.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Grol]

<p>OK..so..been thinking some more. here's a quick sketch up of a sittable chair/sleepable bed mechanic. Pretty simple really, I promise you it's possible and not all that difficult to add. Truly. I have no knowledge of programming, but <i>I </i>could probably figure out how to do it given a month. Maybe a month and a half (Only because i have to find the rightvariables and whatnot)</p><p>Sittable Chair:</p><p> <b>Right click-->Sit on </b>leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Check character size-->If size greater than limit-->Display 'You're too large for this chair'/-->Else if Size=< limit--> Place character on chair, play sit animation and record original position. Disable movement and 'sit here' option for others</b></p><p><b>Right click-->Stand up</b> leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Place character at original position-->Stop playing sit animation, enable movement, enable 'sit option' for all</b></p><p><b><i>The same mechanics, maybe even the same CODE could be used for beds. Only difference would maybe be more lenient size limits, as long as the bed would physically allow it (Feet hanging off the end, but not if there's a footboard, that kinda thing)</i></b></p><p><b></b></p><p>This truly is a relatively simple mechanic, and ned only be usable inside houses in my opinion. Adding it to taverns and such as well would be nice, but may also create a slight bit more lag, I don't know, but some places just plain have enough lag as it is.</p>

[Grol]

<p>An addition to my last post, explaining a set of basic mechanics that this idea would entail:</p><p>Give sizes racial values, and place that value on the furniture. I.E. if gnome can sit on the chair, but no bigger, then add '<b><i>Up to gnome'</i></b> to the item description.</p><p>If every race can use it, add '<b><i>Usable by all</i></b>' to it.</p><p>Troll the biggest? add '<b><i>Up to troll</i></b>'</p><p>If none can use it because you don't want people sitting on broken benches and whatnot, add '<b><i>Not practical</i></b>'</p>

[Sapphirius]

<gets a mental image of a troll trying to sit in a gnomish thinking chair with his knees up in his face>

[erin]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OK..so..been thinking some more. here's a quick sketch up of a sittable chair/sleepable bed mechanic. Pretty simple really, I promise you it's possible and not all that difficult to add. Truly. I have no knowledge of programming, but <i>I </i>could probably figure out how to do it given a month. Maybe a month and a half (Only because i have to find the rightvariables and whatnot)</p><p>Sittable Chair:</p><p> <b>Right click-->Sit on </b>leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Check character size-->If size greater than limit-->Display 'You're too large for this chair'/-->Else if Size=< limit--> Place character on chair, play sit animation and record original position. Disable movement and 'sit here' option for others</b></p><p><b>Right click-->Stand up</b> leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Place character at original position-->Stop playing sit animation, enable movement, enable 'sit option' for all</b></p><p><b><i>The same mechanics, maybe even the same CODE could be used for beds. Only difference would maybe be more lenient size limits, as long as the bed would physically allow it (Feet hanging off the end, but not if there's a footboard, that kinda thing)</i></b></p><p>This truly is a relatively simple mechanic, and ned only be usable inside houses in my opinion. Adding it to taverns and such as well would be nice, but may also create a slight bit more lag, I don't know, but some places just plain have enough lag as it is.</p></blockquote>As a software engineer I always enjoy when a customer thinks they can code.  If you want to fix this problem, go work for SOE, for EQ2, and make this a requirement of your employment.Good luck.When a dev comes in and tells you that it isn't feasible without a large effort, why would you go and argue with him?  This has come up, I don't know, a thousand times?  Yet you truly believe the devs have NEVER sat down and said 'hmmm the customers seem to really want this, can we do it?"Come on.  Seriously?  No offense but when a dev actually comes in and explains why you can't have something, at this point (given the lack of customer communication) you have to believe that he wouldn't bother just to lie.

[Grol]

<cite>erin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OK..so..been thinking some more. here's a quick sketch up of a sittable chair/sleepable bed mechanic. Pretty simple really, I promise you it's possible and not all that difficult to add. Truly. I have no knowledge of programming, but <i>I </i>could probably figure out how to do it given a month. Maybe a month and a half (Only because i have to find the rightvariables and whatnot)</p><p>Sittable Chair:</p><p> <b>Right click-->Sit on </b>leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Check character size-->If size greater than limit-->Display 'You're too large for this chair'/-->Else if Size=< limit--> Place character on chair, play sit animation and record original position. Disable movement and 'sit here' option for others</b></p><p><b>Right click-->Stand up</b> leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Place character at original position-->Stop playing sit animation, enable movement, enable 'sit option' for all</b></p><p><b><i>The same mechanics, maybe even the same CODE could be used for beds. Only difference would maybe be more lenient size limits, as long as the bed would physically allow it (Feet hanging off the end, but not if there's a footboard, that kinda thing)</i></b></p><p>This truly is a relatively simple mechanic, and ned only be usable inside houses in my opinion. Adding it to taverns and such as well would be nice, but may also create a slight bit more lag, I don't know, but some places just plain have enough lag as it is.</p></blockquote>As a software engineer I always enjoy when a customer thinks they can code.  If you want to fix this problem, go work for SOE, for EQ2, and make this a requirement of your employment.Good luck.When a dev comes in and tells you that it isn't feasible without a large effort, why would you go and argue with him?  This has come up, I don't know, a thousand times?  Yet you truly believe the devs have NEVER sat down and said 'hmmm the customers seem to really want this, can we do it?"Come on.  Seriously?  No offense but when a dev actually comes in and explains why you can't have something, at this point (given the lack of customer communication) you have to believe that he wouldn't bother just to lie.</blockquote><p>I didn't say I thought I could code. I didn't say I was solving some problem devs have been mulling over fo centuries. I've never read a tread on this topic. And the problem given from this dev was that the sizes wouldn't work so people would get all hissy essentially. That's not saying it's not feasible, it's saying that the sizes would make people get all hissy. Plain and simple. </p><p>Actually I said I CANT code, but with enough time, I could easily (Yes, easily, with the right determination) learn the bits I need to know, and honestly, I would love to be an EQ2 dev and try to fix things. Unfortunately, I don't turn 18 for another week, so havent had that option.</p><p>What I do know is that the simple coding I've done for Oblivion has been just htat, simple. And it's easy to do exactly what I just said in that game, you could do it. I could probably make amod that says your too tall if you're over a height, but there's no point in that game.</p><p>Now, what I <b>did</b> do in that post was offer a technically simple solution that would not take SOE very long to bang out, aside from the assigning it to all the furniture. That bit might take a while, since there is so much. One thing that I'm keeping in mind is that SOE has people that code for them that have experience and know how EQ2 works, and so would know how to do this. On top of that, it would be a team in all likelihood.. maybe not, who cares, but if it is, it would go even faster.</p><p>The 'you'd rather have guildhalls' bit.. well yes we would, but if it's a mechanic you can bang out pretty easily, then hey, why not do just that? If you can explain to me why my echanic is not feasible, so be it. So far you've only misstated that the dev in this thread said this mechanic is not feasible (Or however you put it)</p><p><b>ETA:: As a customer, one thing I always enjoy is a coder who says something won't work without offering any actual explanation of <i>why.</i></b></p>

[erin]

<cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>erin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kanesh_The_Mad wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OK..so..been thinking some more. here's a quick sketch up of a sittable chair/sleepable bed mechanic. Pretty simple really, I promise you it's possible and not all that difficult to add. Truly. I have no knowledge of programming, but <i>I </i>could probably figure out how to do it given a month. Maybe a month and a half (Only because i have to find the rightvariables and whatnot)</p><p>Sittable Chair:</p><p> <b>Right click-->Sit on </b>leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Check character size-->If size greater than limit-->Display 'You're too large for this chair'/-->Else if Size=< limit--> Place character on chair, play sit animation and record original position. Disable movement and 'sit here' option for others</b></p><p><b>Right click-->Stand up</b> leads to the game doing the following</p><p><b>Place character at original position-->Stop playing sit animation, enable movement, enable 'sit option' for all</b></p><p><b><i>The same mechanics, maybe even the same CODE could be used for beds. Only difference would maybe be more lenient size limits, as long as the bed would physically allow it (Feet hanging off the end, but not if there's a footboard, that kinda thing)</i></b></p><p>This truly is a relatively simple mechanic, and ned only be usable inside houses in my opinion. Adding it to taverns and such as well would be nice, but may also create a slight bit more lag, I don't know, but some places just plain have enough lag as it is.</p></blockquote>As a software engineer I always enjoy when a customer thinks they can code.  If you want to fix this problem, go work for SOE, for EQ2, and make this a requirement of your employment.Good luck.When a dev comes in and tells you that it isn't feasible without a large effort, why would you go and argue with him?  This has come up, I don't know, a thousand times?  Yet you truly believe the devs have NEVER sat down and said 'hmmm the customers seem to really want this, can we do it?"Come on.  Seriously?  No offense but when a dev actually comes in and explains why you can't have something, at this point (given the lack of customer communication) you have to believe that he wouldn't bother just to lie.</blockquote><p>I didn't say I thought I could code. I didn't say I was solving some problem devs have been mulling over fo centuries. I've never read a tread on this topic. And the problem given from this dev was that the sizes wouldn't work so people would get all hissy essentially. That's not saying it's not feasible, it's saying that the sizes would make people get all hissy. Plain and simple. </p><p>Actually I said I CANT code, but with enough time, I could easily (Yes, easily, with the right determination) learn the bits I need to know, and honestly, I would love to be an EQ2 dev and try to fix things. Unfortunately, I don't turn 18 for another week, so havent had that option.</p><p>What I do know is that the simple coding I've done for Oblivion has been just htat, simple. And it's easy to do exactly what I just said in that game, you could do it. I could probably make amod that says your too tall if you're over a height, but there's no point in that game.</p><p>Now, what I <b>did</b> do in that post was offer a technically simple solution that would not take SOE very long to bang out, aside from the assigning it to all the furniture. That bit might take a while, since there is so much. One thing that I'm keeping in mind is that SOE has people that code for them that have experience and know how EQ2 works, and so would know how to do this. On top of that, it would be a team in all likelihood.. maybe not, who cares, but if it is, it would go even faster.</p><p>The 'you'd rather have guildhalls' bit.. well yes we would, but if it's a mechanic you can bang out pretty easily, then hey, why not do just that? If you can explain to me why my echanic is not feasible, so be it. So far you've only misstated that the dev in this thread said this mechanic is not feasible (Or however you put it)</p></blockquote>This thread comes up if not weekly, at the very least monthly.  Apparently the search function stinks so I won't say anything about you not seeing this thread over and over <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />A few times devs have made comments.  If not outright stating its not feasible, at the very least indicating that it would take a ton of time.I can't tell you that your suggestion is not feasible, and neither can you say that it is.  Unlike you, I AM a software engineer, and I work on incredibly complex systems.  Which a gaming system like this is bound to be (though I'll freely admit this could consist of a 1000 lines of code for all I know).  When you are dealing with a system that has 100s of thousands or millions of lines of code (which the system I work on does, and this one likely does as well, though again I freely admit I have no direct knowledge), the simple is often quite complex.What I do know is that I've read this thread dozens of times over the years and in several instances a dev has indicated that it is hard, that it is time consuming and that there are far more important things to do.The point is that you suggested something incredibly simple that a first year computer science student would be able to do and while I realize you were trying to be helpful, I'm sorry but I found it amusing.  My customers have come across with "but this should be so simple" when we've patiently explained why its not, because from the outside it certainly appears simple.  But like most software systems, this one likely has evolved over time, becoming more intertwined, more complex over time.  Every change you make, you break 5 other things if you aren't careful.  Now, in my industry we have to worry about customer safety and therefore we carefully insert every change.  But from my extremely limited game development experience (very very very limited), I know that software companies in non-safety related software world are not that cautious.  Not implying that SOE practices poor coding, just that nobody dies when they make a major mistake.I'm sorry you took offense at my statement (I plead customer interaction just 2 days ago as my excuse for being rude /grin).  Please try the search function again, maybe it'll work for a change and you can see for yourself where other devs have made statements as well, all adding up to "its just not worth the effort".

[Grol]

<p>The thing is, I laid it out in super simple terms because that's the first step to anything. Figure out something that just about anyone can do. THEN figure out how to actually DO it. I know it's a hell of a lot more complex than what I had, and could take millions of lines of code for all I care (Super doubtful it's <i>that </i>complex though.) The thing is, that I'm not saying alter the way the game works, or changing any current mechanic <i>at all</i>. Simply take what is aesthetic at the moment, and then add in a functionality. </p><p>Now, I was a coder in Second Life, another simple code thing going on there. I could do this easily in that, including making my own animations, chairs, all that, pretty durn easily. Now I know that's another super-simple comparison, but the thing is, in comparison to most of what is done in EQ2, this really is <b><i>that simple</i></b>. Not in general, but comparitively, it is, is what I'm saying.</p><p>ETA:: The <b>reason</b> it's that simple comparitively is that it's no AI, no physics, nothing really all that complex. Just add in a function that checks the height (An already existing variable I'm sure) and returns whether it should work. If it should, do an animation, if it shouldn't, say so. That's all it has to <b>do</b>. No saying that's how to do it, but thats all that's required of it.</p>

[Atragon]

Thats alot of work for something that might be fun for maybe 10 seconds. Okay, I'm done sitting!

[Grol]

<cite>Atragon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thats alot of work for something that might be fun for maybe 10 seconds. Okay, I'm done sitting!</blockquote><p>Kinda like the clockwork illusion gnomes get as their racial thing.. so bored of that...</p><p>Anyway, I'd use them tons. Then I'd actually <b><i>use</i></b> my house, to meet with people, camp (I did this, but without being ableto sleep there there's really no point..), etc. Guild meetings would seem more formal in my opinion,, and things like weddings could be properly conducted.</p>

[Revalou]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>I know it wont change anything, but as a side note, I notice in SWG some of the smaller and larger characters are resized slightly to fit into the chair.  You hardly notice it as they sit down at the same time.

[Faelgalad]

<p>Dev: </p><p>Problem; Races of different size vs. fixed size furniture doesn't work with the code now. </p><p>Community: </p><p>Thanks for answer, we could life happily with sitting only on furniture fitting to our size. </p><p>Dev: </p><p>???</p><p>Communication is an exchange of arguments. How about the next answer <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>And a remark for your Promotion segment. Don't downsize EQ, let it stand up. Inserting more Roleplay/Simple Life/Sims2 functions will seperate EQ2 from the rather plain WoW. Attracting roleplayers. So, first step, interaction with furniture on 50% of those in Sims2. I don't want Cybersex, but I want to sit with my Raiders in my 5 Room Appartment in Qeynos and discuss our way. </p>

[Powers]

<cite>Striothia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>    Rothgar, I would believe you if it wasn't for the fact that you have another title under the SOE banner called Star Wars Galaxies. There they have had sitting and various styles of sitting on and in furniture in the game for a very long time. And if you want to talk size difference try a Wookie versus a Bothan, all of customizable height,girth,chest,legs, you name it.</blockquote>First, <i>SWG </i>was designed from the get-go to allow sitting.  As Rothgar said, it's a lot easier to implement if it's designed that way from the start; it's a lot harder to adapt existing systems to include this.Second, <i>SWG </i>implemented it by resizing avatars during the course of the "sit" animation so that all sitting characters are the same size.  They could do this because the difference between the tallest Wookiee is less than twice the height of the shortest Bothan.  In <i>EQ2</i>, the tallest Ogre is probably about five times the height of the shortest Fae (if you exclude Fae as not needing to sit in chairs, then about four times the height of the shortest Gnome).  That size difference makes <i>SWG</i>'s resizing trick impractical.There are also clipping issues to consider.  In <i>SWG</i>, it's not an issue: you can walk right through most items when placed in a building.  In <i>EQ2</i>, items have bounding boxes.  Can the collision code be easily changed to let a character's knees (or whatever) clip through a table if the chair they're sitting in is too close?  I don't know, and neither does anyone else in this thread except Rothgar.  And even he might not know off hand.  And even if this problem is easily solved, there are countless other little issues just like it that add up to one big problem.<cite>Faelgalad wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Community: </p><p>Thanks for answer, we could life happily with sitting only on furniture fitting to our size. </p></blockquote>Well, first off, give Rothgar a break, it was the weekend after all.Second, I'm not sure it's as simple as you portray here.  This thread is hardly a cross-section of the community.  I agree that sittable furniture would be a GREAT feature, but I'm not convinced it would have an impact commensurate with the effort.  Consider this: is there any furniture that would fit Ogres?  If not, will the community demand such-sized furniture should this feature be implemented?  Does that add to the development time?Again, there are countless little issues involved in a major feature like this.  If it really does come down to "Do you want to sit in a chair, or do you want to have guild halls?", which one do you think the majority of the community would choose?Powers  &8^]

[gi]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>Thanks for the reply Rothgar, nice to have an official response to this burning RP issue.My thoughts on your response would be that you don't have to sit down on existing chairs if thats the issue, you could spawn a chair and sit on it, like you spawn a mount and sit on it. You just would not be allowed to move about on it. I think this would be a good compromise , and please the roleplaying community. Its a shame that we don't have half of the RP tools that lotro has <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />And to be honest I would prefer interactable furniture before guild halls, but my above new animation idea would suffice.Maybe with the skeletal revamp this will be techincally possible??

[Beldin_]

<cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eh, my bruiser can FD and flop on her bed just fine.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yeah, i always often thought that would be at least a fix for the bed thing. Just give characters a feign death that could only used in houses when they rightclick on a bed <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[einar4]

<p> I always find it a little odd when a developer says, "Well, we could put alot of work into that, but wouldn't you want us to work on <some promised feature> instead?"  </p><p>  What, it's an either-or thing?  And how long has "Guild Housing," this topic's carrot de jour, been in the works?  </p><p> Personally, I would find the answer that "it's toooo haaard" to be more appropriate than saying it would have to derail some other feature that has been in the works since EQ1 released it's first expansion. </p>

[Bodracoran]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>It's not that complicated though. You could make an emote to put people in the seated position, and allow chairs to be resizable to fit the character.</p><p>Of course we would need resizable items, then and I am not sure if there are any currently...</p>

[Grol]

<cite>Bodracoran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote><p>It's not that complicated though. You could make an emote to put people in the seated position, and allow chairs to be resizable to fit the character.</p><p>Of course we would need resizable items, then and I am not sure if there are any currently...</p></blockquote>All armor and weapons currently resize based on the person wearing/wielding them. Always. Otherwise you'd have a gnome with a dagger the size of themself, or an ogre with a halberd like a toothpick.

[Grol]

<cite>Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I always find it a little odd when a developer says, "Well, we could put alot of work into that, but wouldn't you want us to work on <some promised feature> instead?"  </p><p>  What, it's an either-or thing?  And how long has "Guild Housing," this topic's carrot de jour, been in the works?  </p><p> Personally, I would find the answer that "it's toooo haaard" to be more appropriate than saying it would have to derail some other feature that has been in the works since EQ1 released it's first expansion. </p></blockquote><p>This is the one aspect of Rothgar's post that I sort of ignored... I refuse to believe that it's an either/or thing. I'd assume that SOE would be organized enough to have a team or whatever working on guildhouses, a team working on the next expansion or something, a 'bug' team, and so on so forth. Not just.. 'Hey everyone, we gotta all make a sarnak! First one there wins a cookie!'</p><p>I have to say that I do appreciate the response from Rothgar, but that is the one tidbit of the post I found suspect to just another excuse.</p>

[Zaurus]

I'd be happy if they just did like City of Heroes and add an emote or something that makes you look like your sitting. It's not perfect for all chairs/benches in the game and some clipping may occur if you don't do it in a good spot, but at least it's something. It works really well in CoH and that game has a pretty big size difference between the smallest and biggest characters. It even works anywhere in the game; you can just go up to the edge of a wall or cliff or whatever your standing on and type /ledgesit and you go into a sitting pose with your legs hanging off the side. I'm no programmer or anything but I imagine this would be a MUCH easier solution than trying to make it work like SWG.

[Bigmanrayl]

<p>As far as character sizes, look at how we mount griffens. All you do is take our mountable pose (which they have modified over and over again), close our legs and make us not do the rocking motion and you got sitable characters. As far as sleeping, that I could see being hard. You could take our characters when we die and flip it. It would look weird on some characters. </p><p>I know that makes it sound easier than it is, but I think once the developers feel like this is a feature that is nessary, it can be done. But with players complaining about features which they then fix just so other players complain about the fix. So its a constant run around on how to make players happy with the game (combat, skills, ect), so I don't see this happening too soon.</p>

[Gyakusetsu]

I think the 'mount' solution is a fantastic idea! A visitor could right-click the chair and choose the 'sit' option. The chair could then disappear, replaced by the character in a sitting position with a chair of the same style, but resized to fit the character sitting in it rooted in place and positioned at the spot where the character sat (allowing a little bit of chair-positioning customization). There would be some possible incompatibilities with characters that have tails and certain chairs... but that problem already exists with mounts anyway (trust me, you don't want to see where the end of my sarnak's tail sticks out when seated on a warg).It even seems reasonably possible and simple to do with already-existing code. To bad I'm not a developer with the time and drive to implement it! One possible hitch I could foresee would be the disappearing original chair and making sure that when the character stands, it's returned to the right place. Home-owners would be rather irate if their expensive chairs vanished permanently (oops, guess the ogre broke it!), though I suppose it'd be possible to recover your chair in the event of a bug with the 'collect an item' option on the room and re-place the chair. There's also the issue that there are a lot of different chair styles, and a 'mount' model would have to be made of each, which could be time (and possibly resource) consuming.This wouldn't work well for beds though, as you probably wouldn't want your bed moving around the room when you sleep on it.

[Siclone]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>there are plenty of games and things out there with different size toons that all can sit in chairs.</p><p> Perhaps go back to school or ask them how they do it.</p><p> I mean just look at another sony game, SWG, you can change your size and be tall or short or and different races but still sit in chairs</p><p> second life you can as well, be a 2 feet tall and still sit in a chair.  </p>

[Dessellion4]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote><p>I suppose the same answer is true for illusions - too many different sizes.  It's particularly odd as a female Sarnak that my bone structure when using any of my undead illusion forms appears to be that of a tiny human male.  Although tbh the small size is very useful when my huge frame won't fit through doorways or gets stuck in dungeons.</p>

[KindredHeart]

<p>If the variety in sizes is the problem why not simply remove the problem to arrive at a solution...</p><p>Make a "magical" chair and a "magical bed".  When players sit they auto shrink / grow to all be exactly the same preset size.  This way you can build your sitting animation without having to factor in all the various sizes.</p><p>Wouldn't that work?</p>

[Tamar]

Maybe I am reading it wrong.  But it seems that the answer we are given by the Devs is that it would take too much work to make it not "look funny".Well...   ...could it really look any funnier than it does now?  Kneeling on chairs and benches?Seriously, I don't think anyone is truly asking for a work of art.  Just at least a usable sitting.Looking at the way shields, armor, robes, weapons, etc (that have been in the game for ever), on character models (that have been in the game forever) all clip now and have for years, do you really think people would be upset with clipping of chair graphics?I would recommend another excuse.

[LordPazuzu]

<p>I think the full excuse was that it would take too much time and work to get right and <b>they have much more important things to be working on</b>...Guild Halls were mentioned specifically.</p><p>Sittable Chairs vs.Guild Halls is a no brainer.  Lets face it, there will always be something larger and more important for them to be working on then to expend a massive amount of resources to implement an what amounts to on the surface as a minor cosmetic change.  To do so would be a gross mismanagement of limited developmental resources.</p>

[Tamar]

<cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the full excuse was that it would take too much time and work to get right and <b>they have much more important things to be working on</b>...Guild Halls were mentioned specifically.</p><p>Sittable Chairs vs.Guild Halls is a no brainer.  Lets face it, there will always be something larger and more important for them to be working on then to expend a massive amount of resources to implement an what amounts to on the surface as a minor cosmetic change.  To do so would be a gross mismanagement of limited developmental resources.</p></blockquote>To me...   ...having Guild Halls would only make me want to be able to sit in chairs all the more.Maybe if their developmental resources are that limited, something should be done to fix that problem?

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Tamarah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the full excuse was that it would take too much time and work to get right and <b>they have much more important things to be working on</b>...Guild Halls were mentioned specifically.</p><p>Sittable Chairs vs.Guild Halls is a no brainer.  Lets face it, there will always be something larger and more important for them to be working on then to expend a massive amount of resources to implement an what amounts to on the surface as a minor cosmetic change.  To do so would be a gross mismanagement of limited developmental resources.</p></blockquote>To me...   ...having Guild Halls would only make me want to be able to sit in chairs all the more.Maybe if their developmental resources are that limited, something should be done to fix that problem?</blockquote>You mean like raise the Station Pass price again to pay for more staff?

[ke'la]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest problem is that we have characters of all different shapes and sizes from ogres to fae to frogloks.  No single chair would fit all characters.  This is made even more complicated by the fact that you can customize the size of your character when he is created as well as modify his size larger or smaller with many different items and spells in the game.It might seem easy to make a character look like they are sitting in a chair, but trying to align them properly so that their feet didn't go through the floor or that they weren't hovering above the chair would be really difficult.  This would be a fun feature to have, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, you guys would probably rather have guild houses or something like that.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>See SWG and the increadable sliding caractors for more info on what Roth is refuring to in reguards to sitting bugs. Some companies have gotten around it by more or less despawning your toon and the furniture piece and then spawning them in the the Chair or bed(stares at LotRO), but imo it looks really fake the way they do it.

[ke'la]

<cite>Thuriel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A dev accually responed to this once, and the answer is something to the effect of:</p><p>Being able to sit/liedown in chairs or on beds is a core mechanic of the game, and has to be built in at the start of Development. The First Devs to work on EQ2 did not deem Sitting/Lieing importaint so they did not included it in the game design, as such they can not add it now, with out a HUGE amount of dev time put into it, because they would have to basicly recode the base engine of the game.</p></blockquote>I think that's the answer to the question about armor tinting, a different dead horse.</blockquote>You could be right, all these dead horses are starting to congel together, into one stinking mass.

[ke'la]

<cite>Striothia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>    Rothgar, I would believe you if it wasn't for the fact that you have another title under the SOE banner called Star Wars Galaxies. There they have had sitting and various styles of sitting on and in furniture in the game for a very long time. And if you want to talk size difference try a Wookie versus a Bothan, all of customizable height,girth,chest,legs, you name it. And yet every imaginable combination for every race works in every piece of furniture. So it is not impossible, it is not impractical, it is simply you and you and those over you do not with to devote any reasources to it at all.    I believe you could do it if you so wished. And if you couldn't figure it out you could head on over to the SWG offices and find out possible methods of doing it. But this like actual diverse armor and clothing models that aren't just the same 5 models retextured and re alpha cut would consume time money which everyone knows is in short supply in SOE these days.</blockquote><p>Your right they could do what they did in SWG, cause it works so perfictly thier... 4 or is it 5 years of development and I am still hovering 3 feet infront of the chair I am "sitting" in, and if perhapse I get lucky and don't slide forward, I have to be very careful.</p><p>Also yes Wookie's are Tall but they are not BIG, there is a Differance, an Orge and a Barb are about the same Hight as a Wookie but they are about twice as wide. Then you have the Rotonga, Gnomes, Haflings, Fae, and Arasai all of wich are Far smaller both in hight and in width then any race in SWG. The truth is no playable race in SWG is very far off Human Norm as they all are based of people in rubber/shaggy suits. You also have the fact that some EQ2 races like Rotonga, Froglock and Sarnak walk on thier toes, and therefor sit completly differant then a Human.</p>

[Rothgar]

Wow... reading the responses to my reply makes me want to just slap my forehead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />What's really funny is how people interpret what they'd like to from our posts.  I never said it wasn't feasible... I went back and read my post like 5 times to see if there was anything in there that would give you the idea that it "couldn't be done."   I'm aware of how SWG does it.It really just boils down to priorities, time, and how much of an impact it would have on the game.  I never said we wouldn't consider doing this at some point in the future, I was just making the point that sometimes we have higher priority tasks on our plate.I have pretty thick skin, but if you want more devs to communicate on the forums I'd recommend some of the following.<span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>It's a pretty simple fix it would seem. Interactable items exist, just make one more interaction.</i></span>Don't assume something is simple because it seems simple.<span class="postbody"><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>Rothgar, I would believe you if it wasn't for the fact...</i></span></span>Don't call them liars.<span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>Perhaps go back to school or ask them how they do it.</i></span></span><span class="postbody">Don't insult their intelligence.</span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>Communication is an exchange of arguments. How about the next answer</i></span></span><span class="postbody">Don't assume they have nothing else to do all day except read the forums.</span><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>that is the one tidbit of the post I found suspect to just another excuse.</i><i>I would recommend another excuse.</i></span>If you don't agree with the answer, don't accuse them of making excuses.<i><span class="postbody"></span><span style="color: #3399ff;">Maybe if their developmental resources are that limited, something should be done to fix that problem?</span></i> Glad you brought it up!  See Autenil's post here. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=410043" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=410043</a> We happen to be looking for a few new members of the EQ2 team.

[Ikke]

<p>Rothgar,</p><p> Don't take all those reactions too personal. I personally like the fact that you guys take the time to communicate with us and to inform us of what you are working on. It strengthens my interest in the game and the (sometimes not very) friendly community around it. Keep up the good work!</p><p>Ikke.</p>

[Snowdonia]

You tell 'em Rothgar! Don't let the tactless dissidence and ignorant assumptions overshadow those of us who DO appreciate you and the work you've been doing. I know my chessboard thanks you. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />*sends a formal invitation to Rothgar to come play a game of chess*

[gi]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow... reading the responses to my reply makes me want to just slap my forehead.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />What's really funny is how people interpret what they'd like to from our posts.  I never said it wasn't feasible... I went back and read my post like 5 times to see if there was anything in there that would give you the idea that it "couldn't be done."   I'm aware of how SWG does it.It really just boils down to priorities, time, and how much of an impact it would have on the game.  I never said we wouldn't consider doing this at some point in the future, I was just making the point that sometimes we have higher priority tasks on our plate.I have pretty thick skin, but if you want more devs to communicate on the forums I'd recommend some of the following.<span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>It's a pretty simple fix it would seem. Interactable items exist, just make one more interaction.</i></span>Don't assume something is simple because it seems simple.<span class="postbody"><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>Rothgar, I would believe you if it wasn't for the fact...</i></span></span>Don't call them liars.<span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>Perhaps go back to school or ask them how they do it.</i></span></span><span class="postbody">Don't insult their intelligence.</span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>Communication is an exchange of arguments. How about the next answer</i></span></span><span class="postbody">Don't assume they have nothing else to do all day except read the forums.</span><span style="color: #3399ff;"><i>that is the one tidbit of the post I found suspect to just another excuse.</i><i>I would recommend another excuse.</i></span>If you don't agree with the answer, don't accuse them of making excuses.<i><span class="postbody"></span><span style="color: #3399ff;">Maybe if their developmental resources are that limited, something should be done to fix that problem?</span></i> Glad you brought it up!  See Autenil's post here. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=410043" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=410043</a> We happen to be looking for a few new members of the EQ2 team. </blockquote>/Agree Rothgar some members of the community are not very constructive with there posts.If you do pop back to this thread, I would be interested to know if the idea that gets around interactble furniture is more feasible.That is the idea to create a static Sitting on Chair animation, much in the same way of Sitting on a Horse?? Is this a better way around the problem?? Or would it use just as much resources?thanks for your time.

[Dreyco]

Keep up the good work, Rothgar! Thanks again as always for the update.

[Moltove]

also remember that Devs generally have the education and knowledge appropriate for their field, unlike most of us here. Generally, those that do have the right smarts, already have a good idea, or just have the brains to BELEIVE the Devs, since they must beleive that they know what they're doing. We have our own professions. Don't think that you took a class or two at vo-tech (I hope everyone else has those in other states, hehe) and minor experience grants you the knowledge to know what is simple and what is not. This is their LIVES, their JOB. This is who they are. They've put 5 years of dedication, and you think that they just blew off every possibility, and that they keep their whiteboard nice and clean? You think that they haven't thought of the most simplest code and tried to work up from it?Granted, forums can provide them with a little help, but when it comes down to it, they're the ones who do the work, and we're the ones who provide info and feedback so they can identify what else to fix/create.Think you have the education and guts? Stop complaining here and apply for a job there. Can't get it? guess you don't have what it takes then. Simple job mechanics, as it works like any other job. You can't say -anything- about the programming and work and how simple (and, by that logic, how hard, as well) it is to program and make toons manipulate the world around them until you've actually seen what exactly you are working with.And for those who say "Well, all you gotta do is change <this> and that would -probably- make you need to change <that>" More than likely, you're right, but also wrong. You're right: change one thing, and you're going to have to change another. You're wrong, thinking it can be solved within two, three lines of code. With how extensive and awesome this game is, I wouldn't be surprised if you told me there is billions and billions of code! (Ok...a bit of an exaggeration, heh). I'd imagine you'd have to go through most, if not -all- of the code to find problems, even if in game there are no presented problems.And please excuse my grammatical errors...much too late *yawn*

[Dedoc]

I would personally love to have sittable/sleepable furniature!

[Frijoles]

<p><cite>Moltove@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>also remember that Devs generally have the education and knowledge appropriate for their field, <b>unlike most of us here</b>.</blockquote><p>So many of those who post to these boards are far more knowledgable and clever than everyone else. They're all experts, certifiable geniuses, every one. The most vocal are <i>always</i> right, and it doesn't matter what anyone else has to say about it, whatever the issue.</p><p>Not only do they know what the development staff can and cannot do, they know why (or why not) it should be done - as well as how - what SOE staffers are thinking, <i>and</i> what their motivations are.  </p><p>This is a phenomenon that's turned me all but competely off of ingame chat, it makes me choke with outrage here (when it doesn't prompt me to howl with laughter), and it will yet be the cause of my complete withdrawal from EQII and MMO's in general.</p><p>Thank you, Rothgar, for keeping it real - you hit that one right out of the park.</p>

[Moltove]

You mean to tell me that you all know -exactly- how these servers work how the program code works, and all that shenanigans?  Sure, I'm sure you guys can romp around the forums just as much as us non-programmers (and the like), but there's no over abundance of them, I'm sure, or at least those who have the equivalent experiences needed for the job. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a whole lot of you, but I just think those numbers are overwhelmed by everyone else who'd rather not think so logically.Even more so, the techniques used to get a basic grasp and concept and a start in the fixing of man of these 'dead horse', I'm sure, do NOT involve insulting and arguing with the Dev who actually took the time to listen and provide a legitimate response.Which brings up this point: Why have little faith in someone you pay $15.99-17.99 a month for? Obviously you're paying them for a reason, they must have done -something- right!

[Galldora]

I have NO IDEA what it takes to make such a change in the game, so I'll just believe Rothgar that it would be a lot more work than we might realize.  I do, however, think there are a couple of really good ideas that came out of this thread (not saying these ideas haven't been mentioned before, but still....)  One idea I really like is to give every character an animation that looks like feign death, so everyone could "sleep" in their bed.  It wouldn't act like FD, it would just allow the character to lie down.  This should be fairly easy, shouldn't it?The idea of a personal chair that you would carry around in your inventory, like a mount, is also kinda cool.  No, it's not nearly as good as being able to sit on any chair in my house, but it doesn't sound like that is feasible for any time in the near future, so this would be a great fix in the meantime, if it's not too complicated.  This stuff may sound very unimportant to some players, but it just depends on how much you are into the role-playing aspect of the game.  For me, having a portable chair that my characters could carry around and pull out to sit on would be every bit as nice as another fancy mount.

[cirrose]

Now that we have Guild Halls can we sit in a comfortable chair?

[Felshades]

<p>why did this have to be necro'd?</p>

[Wildphy]

<p>start a new thread, ppl say 'post in already existing thread'.... post in an old thread and ppl cry 'necro'd'....</p><p>either way - without any change to furniture or skeletal revamps... an "In Player/Guild housing" only FD spell could be implemented for all toons with a non arasai/fae fd graphic</p><p>also - the devs seem to be very keen on playing around with all sorts of stances, they could play around with different sitting positions, maybe not one bent at the hips/knees with legs dangling, but what about a lounging sit, or a cross legged sit... not something for chairs maybe, but still some different options in a house...</p>

[Brigh]

<p>LOTRO has emote that lets you sit in a chair and lay down on the ground.</p>

[Anesh]

<p>Don't worry, sitting in chairs and sleeping on beds will never become a game mechanic, but one day LON will have loot cards with a magical chair and a magical bed that you can sit or sleep on. That day will come. I have no doubt about that.</p>

[WeatherMan]

<p><cite>Aneshia@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't worry, sitting in chairs and sleeping on beds will never become a game mechanic, but one day LON will have loot cards with a magical chair and a magical bed that you can sit or sleep on. That day will come. I have no doubt about that.</p></blockquote><p>EVIL WOMAN!</p><p>Ouch...anyways, apart from Aneshia's <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">sadistic</span> prescient observation, there is something that could be done, and done right now.</p><p>The quest "This Won't End Well..." (the haunted house in Loping Plains) has a point where you receive 'a nearly lethal bite' (or similar).  And where do you wake up?  On a bed.  Flat on your back.</p><p>Is there a reason that this position could not be assigned a command?  Say, '/flat' or '/stargaze' or similar.  The position is there, as well as the graphic for getting to one's feet.  And since any character can do the quest, it stands to reason it wouldn't take all that much to implement.  Or...is this too logical a train of thought?</p><p>Sitting, okay, maybe not...but lying down is already here.  What's stopping the devs from giving us what they've already got in the game?</p>

[Kiara]

<p>That's enough of that, thank you.</p>