Why level 80???

[graewulf]

<p><b>HIGHLIGHTS</b></p><ul><li><b>A new epic quest line is available for every class of adventurer and crafter who has reached level 80.</b> </li><li>The Avatars of the Gods have returned with renewed strength and new members: The Tribunal, Karana and Bertoxxolous. </li><li>New mannequins are available for displaying armor and weapons in your house. You can acquire them from some of your more dedicated and advanced crafting friends. </li><li>Two new UI windows are available: Pet Options and Connection Status. Check out the User Interface section for details. </li><li>PvP armor sets and PvP based writs are now available on the PvP servers.</li></ul><p>Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).</p><p>...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Finora]

<p>How about why not? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>It very likely has to do with the nature of the quests themselves honestly. The epic version probably has people tramping around Veeshan's Peak or something and I doubt there are many that would want to haul along a bunch of level 72's there (though I could be wrong having never been myself). </p>

[Aurumn]

IMO an "epic" weapon denotes something that should be the best of the best. The ultimate challenge, so to speak. To make the weapon obtainable by someone who is (level wise) 75% of the way to the top of their profession would cheapen the accomplishment. Having both Legendary and Fabled versions gives folks with different playstyles a fair chance at it as long as their character is skilled enough (capped) to use it. Seems fair to me.

[shadowgate]

It is 80th as Epic is the top quest line and the goal to reach and reserved for those being the best of the best of thier class... or at least the highest level! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Plus making it 80 is one more way to slow "some" people down in getting them.

[Skywarrior]

<cite>graewulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).</p><p>...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50.  IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released.  Could be wrong though.  Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50.  I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.</p><p>But in any case, it really was a different game.  If you don't want "stupid replies" that remind you that this isn't EQ1 then my advice would be to refrain from comparing anything to EQ1.  But to answer your question more directly, Epics begin at level 80 because that is what the designers of the quest line intended.  Nothing more, nothing less.  There is plenty to do from level 1 to level 80.  Having a questline or two that doesn't even begin until you are max level is, IMO, a good thing and provides something to look forward to once all the xp bars are broken again at max level.</p><p>For some folks, just getting to level 80 is an epic enough adventure.</p>

[Saev]

<p>Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Jacobian21]

Aside from the other things mentioned, I think it's good that it starts at 80 because it will give those ppl something to do besides stockpiling money, maxing out their aa at 140, farming raid zones for fabled gear and masters... etc.  Not that I wouldn't mind being able to start it earlier, mind you (I'm at 75 atm), but I guess I can wait.

[Skywarrior]

<cite>Saevan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>Or make the first step of the quest achieving level 80.  That starts at level 1.  There ya go.  An Epic Quest that begins at level 1 with the first step in the quest being to level to 80.

[Bloodfa]

Put it in as a level 72 quest and one could hit 80 and solo it up to the last boss, which would need a group instead of a raid.  Take a level 72 out into Jarsath Wastes.  Try to fight the lowest non-heroic monster.  And when you're choosing the next respawn, contemplate why suddenly the NPC's hit like ton of bricks.  Make it easier for one group and you trivialize it for another, or make it even-handed and say "here's when you can do it, I suggest you level up".  I vote for the latter.

[Valsehna]

<cite>Saevan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Haha...that defines my recent level of gameplay perfectly, since many weeks past the expansion release, I am still only at 73 adventuring on a 99 percent soloing inquisitor.  And it really does feel rather epic at times...hehee.</p><p>Personally I believe part of the reason is to give kids even more reasons to use even more trailing, repetitive punctuation. ?????????????</p>

[Vonotar]

Every expansion has it's own "epic" sized questline, if your less than level 80 you should be doing Prismatics, Swords of Destiny etc etc.It's only right and proper that the 'pinnacle' weapons for your class should be available only to those who have reached the (current) end of the game.Note that I say this as a level 72 Wizard who is too busy looking after a guild and tradeskilling to get to Adventure level 80 anytime soon, so please don't bother with any "level 80's elitism" rubbish.

[Cathars]

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>graewulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).</p><p>...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50.  IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released.  Could be wrong though.  Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50.  I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.</p></blockquote>The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious.  But your point remains.  And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally.  That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[EQ2Magroo]

If the quest started any earlier than level 80, then you'd trivialise the early parts for people who are already 80.They'd then complain that it was all too easy and no challenge etc., and threaten to quit en play WoW or something equally crazy <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />It's a tough balancing act, and I think the devs have made the right call with positioning it right at the end-game. I would rather have this as something to look forward to at level 80 (when there is precious little else to look forward to) rather than being something I can just semi-AFK my way through.As others have said, a good idea is to consider the first part of the epic to be "get to level 80".

[hellfire]

<cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>graewulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).</p><p>...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50.  IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released.  Could be wrong though.  Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50.  I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.</p></blockquote>The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious.  But your point remains.  And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally.  That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Them raiseing faction on repeatable quests seems like a good hint  as to needing  multiple factions to.

[Kizee]

<cite>Bigron@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>graewulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).</p><p>...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50.  IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released.  Could be wrong though.  Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50.  I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.</p></blockquote>The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious.  But your point remains.  And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally.  That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>Them raiseing faction on repeatable quests seems like a good hint  as to needing  multiple factions to.</blockquote><p>I hope thats not the case. They forced me to solo to 80 and I refuse to grind faction just to get the quest starter for this stupid quest.</p><p>Knowing SoE....thats what they consider "epic".....killing thousands of green solo mobs.</p>

[Apocroph]

Several of the original epics could be started early in life.  Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be.  By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.

[Bledso]

<p>Why level 80?</p><p>Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item  for crafters.</p><p>On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.</p><p>Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.</p><p>You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.</p><p>Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - </p><p>So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?</p>

[Apocroph]

<cite>Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why level 80?</p><p>Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item  for crafters.</p><p>On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.</p><p>Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.</p><p>You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.</p><p>Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - </p><p>So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?</p></blockquote>With a quest this scale, the journey IS the reward.  At least, it should be.Making them start at 80 only serves to make me feel like they started at the wrong end when they were trying to design an "epic" quest.

[Kel]

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why level 80?</p><p>Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item  for crafters.</p><p>On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.</p><p>Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.</p><p>You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.</p><p>Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - </p><p>So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?</p></blockquote>With a quest this scale, the journey IS the reward.  At least, it should be.Making them start at 80 only serves to make me feel like they started at the wrong end when they were trying to design an "epic" quest.</blockquote>Uh, no?There is plenty of 'journey' along the way to level 80. After level 80, there isn't a whole lot to do.THIS is something to do at 80, you guys complaining because you 'took your time to enjoy all the content' and now you can't do something? Suck it up. It's your own fault.

[Dreadpatch]

Just a quick question do you need to be max adventure and tradeskill in order to get your epic weapon? I am 80, but only 36 tradeskill (I pretty much hate tradeskilling, spamming 6 buttons kinda blows). Was just wondering and thx.

[Kel]

<cite>Dreadpatch wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a quick question do you need to be max adventure and tradeskill in order to get your epic weapon? I am 80, but only 36 tradeskill (I pretty much hate tradeskilling, spamming 6 buttons kinda blows). Was just wondering and thx.</blockquote>Not unless they want a riot. They added seperate TS 'epics' for the tradeskillers, as well, so I doubt it.

[Apocroph]

<cite>Kel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Uh, no?There is plenty of 'journey' along the way to level 80. After level 80, there isn't a whole lot to do.THIS is something to do at 80, you guys complaining because you 'took your time to enjoy all the content' and now you can't do something? Suck it up. It's your own fault.</blockquote>Uh, no?If you know there isn't a whole lot to do, why race?  Make an alt, enjoy the content.It's not my fault you opted to hurry to 80 before you opted to take part in content that could include more people than you.  So as you said, suck it up.  It's your own fault.Note that I'm not saying the whole quest should be doable pre-80, I'm not saying the reward should be level 50.

[Jovie]

<p>getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point? </p><p>Farming?</p><p>A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull. </p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<cite>Jovie@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p><p>Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point? </p><p>Farming?</p><p>A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull. </p></blockquote>I have to disagree on this, thee are over 3,000 plus quests you can do in the game that do not require you to be max level.  This questline does and i think it is a good thing.  If you wish to play casual and not be level 80, chances are you are not needing the item to handle the content that the epic is designed for.  The game does not end at level 80, you still fill out your 140 AA's, work on quest lines/factions that can yield nice rewards, and work on upgrading your spells to masters plus gear that can handle the content you want.   There is way too many people out there that want instant gratification in this game and want things all vanilla in form then complain everything is the same.  You have the choice of leveling to 80 and trying the questline or level at your leisure and try it later on, nobody at this writing knows how many quests are involved, but many agree that the end item is level 80, so it makes sense to require a level 80 requirement to start.  The Epics have been talked about since before ROK, so it shouldnt be a suprise that it requires level 80 to start people...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bledso]

<cite>Jovie@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p>Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point? </p><p>Farming?</p><p>A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull. </p></blockquote><p>One instance alone can answer this</p><p>Turn 80 take a trip into Maiden's - then see if you want to be swinging a lvl 70 epic in there and there isn't a way for items to scale.</p>

[Jovie]

<p>By what the previous two posters are saying, the epic won't be usefull until a future level cap increase.</p><p>I am talking actual use. Use in developing your character. If your character is at level cap and is maxed on AA, then until the next level increase, your character is basically done, finished, at a plateau of which there can be no betterment.</p><p>Therefore, the only use at that point is to farm.</p><p>Of course every character will reach that point. That is not my argument. I am merely stating that it would feel of more use to be useable within at least 5 levels of max. Give the epic weapon a true purpose while you are making your way to the top. Not just a fancy ornament to show off.</p>

[Jovie]

<cite>Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jovie@Guk wrote:</cite><p>One instance alone can answer this</p><p>Turn 80 take a trip into Maden's - then see if you want to be swinging a lvl 70 epic in there and there isn't a way for items to scale.</p></blockquote><p>Sony has the technology to scale items. It's been used for years in eq1. In fact to a degree it is currently used in eq2 with the mentor system.</p>

[Zannah]

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Several of the original epics could be started early in life.  Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be.  By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.</blockquote><p>Prismatic - know Giant, Learn Draconic (access into Obelisk of Lost Souls)</p><p>GodKing - Thulian, Death's Whisper, Druzaic, HighElven (IIRC)</p><p>Claymore - Draconic (giant, OoLS), Druzaic, Thulian (?), Volant (?)</p><p>SoD - Thulian (sort of), OoLS access, and maybe more.</p><p>There are plenty of quests that you *don't* have to do to get to lvl 80, but plenty that you have to complete to get certain quests at all.</p><p>SoD started at lvl 60ish for the quests - lots of people had been 70 for a good long time when they started the quest, and part of the requirements to get far into the quest could be completed at lvl 40 ish (OoLS access).</p><p>Epics are going to send you to VP, but Im sure the steps will send you or require you to have learned things along the way that you could learn at lvl 40.  Those arent steps in the quest, just prerequisites to get there.  </p><p>Getting to lvl 80 is gonna be the 'easy' part.</p>

[Bledso]

<p>Just some supposition here but,  (this goes out to those who don't want to wait)</p><p>Maybe the fact that lore knowledge is involved - possibly faction is involved this is an EPIC and therefore the Quest is of EPIC proportion - who is to say that the first mob you come to is going to be an Epic encounter - </p><p>Just relax all let the 80's go out and have something in the game - you have your Deity Quest lines - the ROK quests are great - and they start in the mid 60's - with Legendary Rewards</p><p>This is part of a microwave mentality - no one wants to wait for anthing you want to ding 80 do one final quest and have an Epic handed to you because you did all the preliminary work ahead of time.</p><p>"Go down and earn the right to live up here"  - a semi famous quote.</p><p>It is done - it's in the game it's lvl 80 plead if you need to feel you must but resign yourself to the fact that when you get to 80 you will begin your quest.    </p><p>Or are you wanting to get to the world discovery first that you want to start the quests powerlevel to 80 and get a reward.  Hmmmmm maybe this is what Sony had in mind when they gave no details and made it lvl 80 specific.</p><p>If they even will give out world discovery rewards on these.    This is the only reason I can see why less then 80 toons want to start the quest.</p><p>Also look at it this way - by the time you get to 80 you can wiki it and have all the work of discovery done for you so you can zip your way through it anyways.</p>

[bleap]

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>graewulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).</p><p>...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50.  IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released.  Could be wrong though.  Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50.  I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.</p><p>But in any case, it really was a different game.  If you don't want "stupid replies" that remind you that this isn't EQ1 then my advice would be to refrain from comparing anything to EQ1.  But to answer your question more directly, Epics begin at level 80 because that is what the designers of the quest line intended.  Nothing more, nothing less.  There is plenty to do from level 1 to level 80.  Having a questline or two that doesn't even begin until you are max level is, IMO, a good thing and provides something to look forward to once all the xp bars are broken again at max level.</p><p>For some folks, just getting to level 80 is an epic enough adventure.</p></blockquote>Wrong but thanks for playing, the level cap was 60 when RoK was released, the epic quests were introduced either with the release or soon after. The quest could start at level 45, you could equip the weapon around level 52....Sure, I can't wait to reach level 80 so I can do more quests for NO adventure EXP to get a weapon I won't use again until the level cap is raised in 2 more years...This might be great for raiders, NOOOOOT so much for those of us who don't raid. I know when I reach level 80 my toon will be put into moth balls until the level cap is reached...I have 9 toons to level to 80....NOW if they decide to raise the level cap every year I might bother with this quest...And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...

[bleap]

<cite>Zannah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Several of the original epics could be started early in life.  Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be.  By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.</blockquote><p>Prismatic - know Giant, Learn Draconic (access into Obelisk of Lost Souls)</p><p>GodKing - Thulian, Death's Whisper, Druzaic, HighElven (IIRC)</p><p>Claymore - Draconic (giant, OoLS), Druzaic, Thulian (?), Volant (?)</p><p>SoD - Thulian (sort of), OoLS access, and maybe more.</p><p>There are plenty of quests that you *don't* have to do to get to lvl 80, but plenty that you have to complete to get certain quests at all.</p><p>SoD started at lvl 60ish for the quests - lots of people had been 70 for a good long time when they started the quest, and part of the requirements to get far into the quest could be completed at lvl 40 ish (OoLS access).</p><p>Epics are going to send you to VP, but Im sure the steps will send you or require you to have learned things along the way that you could learn at lvl 40.  Those arent steps in the quest, just prerequisites to get there.  </p><p>Getting to lvl 80 is gonna be the 'easy' part.</p></blockquote>If Epics are going to send us to VP or just about any other RoK raid instance then there are going to be a WHOLE lot of players pretty angry....There are a lot more non raiders than players that raid. Getting 6 random people to group together has become fairly hard lately, getting 24 people who know how to raid will be nearly flat out impossible. If this quest takes people anywhere near VP or other raid instance you can effectively tell more than half the paying customer of this game they cannot get their epic weapon...I wonder how that will affect SOEs bottom line??

[Vendolyn]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...</blockquote>Not to keep the EQ1 comparisons going, but Epics were still the be all end all weapon of choice for many players years and expansions down the road.

[bleap]

<cite>Vendolyn@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...</blockquote>Not to keep the EQ1 comparisons going, but Epics were still the be all end all weapon of choice for many players years and expansions down the road.</blockquote>That's because epics were made equipable 8 levels BELOW the then current level cap. I left EQ1 at 65. At 70 they introduced epic2.0. By the time a player in EQ2 reaches level 90 they will need a better weapon to fight and succeed against high end game creatures....So effectively the epic will be good for 10 levels..and certainly useless after 20...So it will NOT be the pinnacle of game accomplishment any longer...

[Nelin]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zannah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Several of the original epics could be started early in life.  Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be.  By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.</blockquote><p>Prismatic - know Giant, Learn Draconic (access into Obelisk of Lost Souls)</p><p>GodKing - Thulian, Death's Whisper, Druzaic, HighElven (IIRC)</p><p>Claymore - Draconic (giant, OoLS), Druzaic, Thulian (?), Volant (?)</p><p>SoD - Thulian (sort of), OoLS access, and maybe more.</p><p>There are plenty of quests that you *don't* have to do to get to lvl 80, but plenty that you have to complete to get certain quests at all.</p><p>SoD started at lvl 60ish for the quests - lots of people had been 70 for a good long time when they started the quest, and part of the requirements to get far into the quest could be completed at lvl 40 ish (OoLS access).</p><p>Epics are going to send you to VP, but Im sure the steps will send you or require you to have learned things along the way that you could learn at lvl 40.  Those arent steps in the quest, just prerequisites to get there.  </p><p>Getting to lvl 80 is gonna be the 'easy' part.</p></blockquote>If Epics are going to send us to VP or just about any other RoK raid instance then there are going to be a WHOLE lot of players pretty angry....There are a lot more non raiders than players that raid. Getting 6 random people to group together has become fairly hard lately, getting 24 people who know how to raid will be nearly flat out impossible. If this quest takes people anywhere near VP or other raid instance you can effectively tell more than half the paying customer of this game they cannot get their epic weapon...I wonder how that will affect SOEs bottom line??</blockquote>I hope SoE does do this.  For Prismatic we had to kill Darathar 55 epicx4.  For Peacock kill Godking 65 epicx4.  For Claymore kill Tarinax 75 epicx4.  For SoD kill Mayong Mistmoore in MMIS 75 epicx4.  I do hope for this epic class questline we have to kill Trakanon.  If you don't raid you really don't need the fabled version.  It's more of a want.  This is also why there is the legendary version for people who aren't in a raiding guild. 

[Vendolyn]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vendolyn@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...</blockquote>Not to keep the EQ1 comparisons going, but Epics were still the be all end all weapon of choice for many players years and expansions down the road.</blockquote>That's because epics were made equipable 8 levels BELOW the then current level cap. I left EQ1 at 65. At 70 they introduced epic2.0. By the time a player in EQ2 reaches level 90 they will need a better weapon to fight and succeed against high end game creatures....So effectively the epic will be good for 10 levels..and certainly useless after 20...So it will NOT be the pinnacle of game accomplishment any longer...</blockquote>Exactly, you could equip them at 52 and they were still handy at 65.  And that's when I left the game.

[Nelin]

<cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vendolyn@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>bleap wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...</blockquote>Not to keep the EQ1 comparisons going, but Epics were still the be all end all weapon of choice for many players years and expansions down the road.</blockquote>That's because epics were made equipable 8 levels BELOW the then current level cap. I left EQ1 at 65. At 70 they introduced epic2.0. By the time a player in EQ2 reaches level 90 they will need a better weapon to fight and succeed against high end game creatures....So effectively the epic will be good for 10 levels..and certainly useless after 20...So it will NOT be the pinnacle of game accomplishment any longer...</blockquote>Actually... epic 2.0 is Peacock and the cap was 60 and that time.  Epic 3 and 4 the cap is 70. 

[Shackleton1]

<p>Well, the level... it would be okay but personally I was hoping this would be the patch that put the fun back in the game (I'm stuck in the mid 70s, bored to tears with soloing).</p><p>Epics came out and clearly they aren't it, which means at best it'll be another month or two before the grind is improved, and realistically it's not going to be.</p><p>Yes, I'm downhearted. My guild wants to raid T8. But we can't cos half the people (myself included, and I've played eq1 solidly from kunark to PoR, then EQ2 since) just cannot get through this soloing yawnfest.</p><p>With level 80 requirement, Epics != the fun</p>

[Lichbane]

Actually, from memory I was able to <i><b>start </b></i>my EQ1 Epic quest at level 40.  There is no way in hell I could have completed it until I'd reached much higher level.Personally, I see no issue with being able to <b><i>start </i></b>the quest series earlier that 80.  The nature of the quests will restrict it to when your able to complete it.

[Peter Corbin]

<p>I like how the epics are level 80 required.  This is what I call "Horizontal advancement" which also includes AA points.  The whole point of MMO's is to keep people paying $15 a month for as long as possible. If the game was over when you got to 80, people would quit paying their subscriptions and go max out another MMO until an expansion came out with a raise to the level cap.  EQ1 accomplished keeping people around for a long time, by putting out huge amounts of things you could spend AA points on and the LDON adornments and so on.  I logged in after quitting for a couple years and there were people who had tens of thousands of AA points.</p><p> EQ2 also keeps adding things in like Tinkering/transmuting and the tradeskills and AA and factions and item discos and leaderboards and house items and holiday events and monthly updates so people will keep playing.  If the point of the game was to grind to 80, realize there was nothing to do at 80 and quit, then people would do just that.  Having the epics require level 80 is brilliant, it gives us 80's something to do besides killing the same raid mobs over and over or min/maxing our aa and gear, and I like how if we don't want to raid or cant get help doing godking or something we can still get the legendary version.  There were all kinds of flaws in EQ1 with levels and gear, I remember having a fungi tunic for my level 1 monk, he soloed into his 30s without his health ever going down. I spent a million plat on major twink gear for a rogue and was overpowered until his 40's  The shaman epic you could multiquest the last part and if the shaman had high enough faction, he/she could skip almost all the steps and have someone else hand in the scale to trigger one of the last mobs. (I did this after I changed servers and lost all my gear including my epic).  People could MQ the faction armor in velious too. As someone else stated, there are 3-4 other quest lines similiar to what we're all assuming the epics for ROK will be like that can be done in the 50's and 60's and have lots of decent intermediate rewards and challenges.  The level 80 epics should be uber enough for people to play with at level 80 until they replace it with similiar gear in the next expansion.   That's just how MMO's work.  If all my desert of flames fabled gear was still uber-doober, why in the heck would I shell out 50-100 bucks a year on expansions? I would probably be bored with the fact that my old gear is better than anything new and quit playing.  These games are all about continually getting new stuff, deal with it.  Getting to 80 is easy.  My best friend started playing EQ2 about 8 months ago and he has 3 level 80s already without being mentored or PL'ed or whatever. If you want to coast along in your 40's or 50's or 60's then don't complain about not being able to do high level stuff.</p>

[graewulf]

<cite>Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why level 80?</p><p>Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item  for crafters.</p><p>On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.</p><p><b>Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.</b></p><p>You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.</p><p>Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - </p><p>So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?</p></blockquote><p>So, what stops you from doing that if the quest can be started at 72, for example? Nothing. I just don't feel people who aren't max level should be penalized by making the quest start at 80. As a previous poster stated, he's bored to tears with all the tedious soloing that is basically required to get to 80. Well, so am I. RoK is by far the worst EQ2 expansion, without question. But that's another topic. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> If it is indeed an 'epic' quest, then there should be plenty of experience to gain along the way, so why NOT allow it to be started earlier?</p>

[Soriza]

For those epics that are started from dropped items, do you also have to be 80 to get the item to drop? Or can you collect the item ahead of time and wait to start till you're 80? Boyfriend and I have been trying to figure out if you need to be 80 and the class in question in order to get starter items to drop.

[bks6721]

<cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Every expansion has it's own "epic" sized questline, if your less than level 80 you should be doing Prismatics, Swords of Destiny etc etc.</blockquote>Doing prismatics?  Does anyone bother anymore?  I "could" try I suppose.. but I'd outlevel the reward within a week.   FFS even getting enough people to start Speak as a Dragon now days is tough.

[Darkmort]

<p>I too was wondering why the Epics started at level 80 and so far after reading these 3 pages my answer hasnt been given or rather it has led me to think two ways.</p><p>#1 here are my cons or reason why it should be lower</p><p>-After looking up the definition for Epic in the dictionary, all I can find is in relation to poetry but I did find this phrase "a long story, film <i>etc</i> telling of great deeds <i>especially</i> historic" now really it could pertain to any level so that wouldnt work.</p><p>But think of it this way, you make a new character, you reach level 80; the current last level to ever acheive and you can start your epic; that doenst qualify the definition of epic.  "Long Story" sure means that the Epic quest line is long but just doesnt make sense to make a character reach 80 levels and say Ok now start your epic.</p><p>Ok I'm just gonna randomly say things that is in no particular order including my pros and cons; so sorry for the remaining parts not outlined correctly lol</p><p>Yes in making another reference to EQ1 that though you can start your Epics almost at any level, each part of the quest had you to be a certain level of the game.  We will say Part 1 of the quest requires you to be level 45 but part 2 requires you to be 50, part 4 requires you to be 60 and so on; to me thats what defines an epic; that one can start at a level and earn their way up in ranks, to go back and work on that same quest and finally complete it.</p><p>I do understand in part that why make an epic quest starter at level 45/80 if they can get the item at level 60 and say Ok Sony bye bye I wont pay for this game again I've already gotten my epic.</p><p>Though on another hand it shouldnt be that difficult to say "Epic Weapon only equippable at level 80" I am thinking as a few of the EQ2 community is "were not saying make the weapons equippable by level 70 or 71; but rather have the quests start a bit earlier and work our way up (as I mentioned with the EQ1 Epics) that way when we hit level 80 we can equip our awesome weapon.</p><p>If I remember right even with Lords of the Rings Online Epics quests (could be wrong) can be started 5-10 levels prior to the actual end level.</p><p>Also I'm not gonna argue nor will I do research atm but if Epics were mentioned as a feature part of Rise of Kunark and RoK can continue your levels 70-80 then it would be appropriate not to restrict the Epic starter til level 80; but again I'm not gonna argue or research because I'm thinking that Epics werent a guaranteed feature of RoK on the box or whatever.</p><p>Anyways just my thoughts.</p>