Why level 80???

graewulf · 02-06-2008, 12:02 PM

HIGHLIGHTS

A new epic quest line is available for every class of adventurer and crafter who has reached level 80.
The Avatars of the Gods have returned with renewed strength and new members: The Tribunal, Karana and Bertoxxolous.
New mannequins are available for displaying armor and weapons in your house. You can acquire them from some of your more dedicated and advanced crafting friends.
Two new UI windows are available: Pet Options and Connection Status. Check out the User Interface section for details.
PvP armor sets and PvP based writs are now available on the PvP servers.

Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).

...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....

Finora · 02-06-2008, 12:13 PM

How about why not?

It very likely has to do with the nature of the quests themselves honestly. The epic version probably has people tramping around Veeshan's Peak or something and I doubt there are many that would want to haul along a bunch of level 72's there (though I could be wrong having never been myself).

Aurumn · 02-06-2008, 12:21 PM

IMO an "epic" weapon denotes something that should be the best of the best. The ultimate challenge, so to speak. To make the weapon obtainable by someone who is (level wise) 75% of the way to the top of their profession would cheapen the accomplishment. Having both Legendary and Fabled versions gives folks with different playstyles a fair chance at it as long as their character is skilled enough (capped) to use it. Seems fair to me.

shadowgate · 02-06-2008, 12:22 PM

It is 80th as Epic is the top quest line and the goal to reach and reserved for those being the best of the best of thier class... or at least the highest level!

Plus making it 80 is one more way to slow "some" people down in getting them.

Skywarrior · 02-06-2008, 12:26 PM

graewulf wrote:

Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).
...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....

Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.

But in any case, it really was a different game. If you don't want "stupid replies" that remind you that this isn't EQ1 then my advice would be to refrain from comparing anything to EQ1. But to answer your question more directly, Epics begin at level 80 because that is what the designers of the quest line intended. Nothing more, nothing less. There is plenty to do from level 1 to level 80. Having a questline or two that doesn't even begin until you are max level is, IMO, a good thing and provides something to look forward to once all the xp bars are broken again at max level.

For some folks, just getting to level 80 is an epic enough adventure.

Saev · 02-06-2008, 12:28 PM

Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68.

Jacobian21 · 02-06-2008, 12:30 PM

Aside from the other things mentioned, I think it's good that it starts at 80 because it will give those ppl something to do besides stockpiling money, maxing out their aa at 140, farming raid zones for fabled gear and masters... etc. Not that I wouldn't mind being able to start it earlier, mind you (I'm at 75 atm), but I guess I can wait.

Skywarrior · 02-06-2008, 12:33 PM

Saevan wrote:

Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68.

Or make the first step of the quest achieving level 80. That starts at level 1. There ya go. An Epic Quest that begins at level 1 with the first step in the quest being to level to 80.

Bloodfa · 02-06-2008, 12:33 PM

Put it in as a level 72 quest and one could hit 80 and solo it up to the last boss, which would need a group instead of a raid. Take a level 72 out into Jarsath Wastes. Try to fight the lowest non-heroic monster. And when you're choosing the next respawn, contemplate why suddenly the NPC's hit like ton of bricks. Make it easier for one group and you trivialize it for another, or make it even-handed and say "here's when you can do it, I suggest you level up". I vote for the latter.

Valsehna · 02-06-2008, 02:06 PM

Saevan wrote:

Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68.

Haha...that defines my recent level of gameplay perfectly, since many weeks past the expansion release, I am still only at 73 adventuring on a 99 percent soloing inquisitor. And it really does feel rather epic at times...hehee.

Personally I believe part of the reason is to give kids even more reasons to use even more trailing, repetitive punctuation. ?????????????

Vonotar · 02-06-2008, 02:11 PM

Every expansion has it's own "epic" sized questline, if your less than level 80 you should be doing Prismatics, Swords of Destiny etc etc.It's only right and proper that the 'pinnacle' weapons for your class should be available only to those who have reached the (current) end of the game.Note that I say this as a level 72 Wizard who is too busy looking after a guild and tradeskilling to get to Adventure level 80 anytime soon, so please don't bother with any "level 80's elitism" rubbish.

Cathars · 02-06-2008, 02:15 PM

Skywarrior wrote:

graewulf wrote:
Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).
...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....
Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.

The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious. But your point remains. And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally. That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work! SMILEY

EQ2Magroo · 02-06-2008, 02:45 PM

If the quest started any earlier than level 80, then you'd trivialise the early parts for people who are already 80.They'd then complain that it was all too easy and no challenge etc., and threaten to quit en play WoW or something equally crazy

It's a tough balancing act, and I think the devs have made the right call with positioning it right at the end-game. I would rather have this as something to look forward to at level 80 (when there is precious little else to look forward to) rather than being something I can just semi-AFK my way through.As others have said, a good idea is to consider the first part of the epic to be "get to level 80".

hellfire · 02-06-2008, 02:49 PM

Catharsis wrote:

Skywarrior wrote:
graewulf wrote:
Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).
...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....
Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.
The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious. But your point remains. And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally. That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work! " />

Them raiseing faction on repeatable quests seems like a good hint as to needing multiple factions to.

Kizee · 02-06-2008, 02:55 PM

Bigron@Najena wrote:

Catharsis wrote:
Skywarrior wrote:
graewulf wrote:
Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).
...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....
Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.
The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious. But your point remains. And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally. That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work! ">
Them raiseing faction on repeatable quests seems like a good hint as to needing multiple factions to.

I hope thats not the case. They forced me to solo to 80 and I refuse to grind faction just to get the quest starter for this stupid quest.

Knowing SoE....thats what they consider "epic".....killing thousands of green solo mobs.

Apocroph · 02-06-2008, 03:07 PM

Several of the original epics could be started early in life. Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be. By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.

Bledso · 02-06-2008, 03:08 PM

Why level 80?

Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item for crafters.

On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.

Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.

You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.

Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal -

So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?

Apocroph · 02-06-2008, 03:19 PM

Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Why level 80?
Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item for crafters.
On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.
Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.
You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.
Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal -
So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?

With a quest this scale, the journey IS the reward. At least, it should be.Making them start at 80 only serves to make me feel like they started at the wrong end when they were trying to design an "epic" quest.

Kel · 02-06-2008, 03:21 PM

kuraan wrote:

Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:
Why level 80?
Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item for crafters.
On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items.
Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun.
You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80.
Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal -
So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?
With a quest this scale, the journey IS the reward. At least, it should be.Making them start at 80 only serves to make me feel like they started at the wrong end when they were trying to design an "epic" quest.

Uh, no?There is plenty of 'journey' along the way to level 80. After level 80, there isn't a whole lot to do.THIS is something to do at 80, you guys complaining because you 'took your time to enjoy all the content' and now you can't do something? Suck it up. It's your own fault.

Dreadpatch · 02-06-2008, 03:26 PM

Just a quick question do you need to be max adventure and tradeskill in order to get your epic weapon? I am 80, but only 36 tradeskill (I pretty much hate tradeskilling, spamming 6 buttons kinda blows). Was just wondering and thx.

Kel · 02-06-2008, 03:29 PM

Dreadpatch wrote:

Just a quick question do you need to be max adventure and tradeskill in order to get your epic weapon? I am 80, but only 36 tradeskill (I pretty much hate tradeskilling, spamming 6 buttons kinda blows). Was just wondering and thx.

Not unless they want a riot. They added seperate TS 'epics' for the tradeskillers, as well, so I doubt it.

Apocroph · 02-06-2008, 03:32 PM

Kel wrote:

Uh, no?There is plenty of 'journey' along the way to level 80. After level 80, there isn't a whole lot to do.THIS is something to do at 80, you guys complaining because you 'took your time to enjoy all the content' and now you can't do something? Suck it up. It's your own fault.

Uh, no?If you know there isn't a whole lot to do, why race? Make an alt, enjoy the content.It's not my fault you opted to hurry to 80 before you opted to take part in content that could include more people than you. So as you said, suck it up. It's your own fault.Note that I'm not saying the whole quest should be doable pre-80, I'm not saying the reward should be level 50.

Jovie · 02-06-2008, 04:14 PM

getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared SMILEY

Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point?

Farming?

A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull.

OrcSlayer96 · 02-06-2008, 04:33 PM

Jovie@Guk wrote:

getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared " />
Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point?
Farming?
A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull.

I have to disagree on this, thee are over 3,000 plus quests you can do in the game that do not require you to be max level. This questline does and i think it is a good thing. If you wish to play casual and not be level 80, chances are you are not needing the item to handle the content that the epic is designed for. The game does not end at level 80, you still fill out your 140 AA's, work on quest lines/factions that can yield nice rewards, and work on upgrading your spells to masters plus gear that can handle the content you want. There is way too many people out there that want instant gratification in this game and want things all vanilla in form then complain everything is the same. You have the choice of leveling to 80 and trying the questline or level at your leisure and try it later on, nobody at this writing knows how many quests are involved, but many agree that the end item is level 80, so it makes sense to require a level 80 requirement to start. The Epics have been talked about since before ROK, so it shouldnt be a suprise that it requires level 80 to start people... SMILEY

Bledso · 02-06-2008, 04:59 PM

Jovie@Guk wrote:

getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared " width="15" height="15">
Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point?
Farming?
A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull.

One instance alone can answer this

Turn 80 take a trip into Maiden's - then see if you want to be swinging a lvl 70 epic in there and there isn't a way for items to scale.

Jovie · 02-06-2008, 05:05 PM

By what the previous two posters are saying, the epic won't be usefull until a future level cap increase.

I am talking actual use. Use in developing your character. If your character is at level cap and is maxed on AA, then until the next level increase, your character is basically done, finished, at a plateau of which there can be no betterment.

Therefore, the only use at that point is to farm.

Of course every character will reach that point. That is not my argument. I am merely stating that it would feel of more use to be useable within at least 5 levels of max. Give the epic weapon a true purpose while you are making your way to the top. Not just a fancy ornament to show off.

Jovie · 02-06-2008, 05:06 PM

Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Jovie@Guk wrote:
One instance alone can answer this
Turn 80 take a trip into Maden's - then see if you want to be swinging a lvl 70 epic in there and there isn't a way for items to scale.

Sony has the technology to scale items. It's been used for years in eq1. In fact to a degree it is currently used in eq2 with the mentor system.

Zannah · 02-06-2008, 05:10 PM

kuraan wrote:

Several of the original epics could be started early in life. Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be. By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.

Prismatic - know Giant, Learn Draconic (access into Obelisk of Lost Souls)

GodKing - Thulian, Death's Whisper, Druzaic, HighElven (IIRC)

Claymore - Draconic (giant, OoLS), Druzaic, Thulian (?), Volant (?)

SoD - Thulian (sort of), OoLS access, and maybe more.

There are plenty of quests that you *don't* have to do to get to lvl 80, but plenty that you have to complete to get certain quests at all.

SoD started at lvl 60ish for the quests - lots of people had been 70 for a good long time when they started the quest, and part of the requirements to get far into the quest could be completed at lvl 40 ish (OoLS access).

Epics are going to send you to VP, but Im sure the steps will send you or require you to have learned things along the way that you could learn at lvl 40. Those arent steps in the quest, just prerequisites to get there.

Getting to lvl 80 is gonna be the 'easy' part.

Bledso · 02-06-2008, 05:23 PM

Just some supposition here but, (this goes out to those who don't want to wait)

Maybe the fact that lore knowledge is involved - possibly faction is involved this is an EPIC and therefore the Quest is of EPIC proportion - who is to say that the first mob you come to is going to be an Epic encounter -

Just relax all let the 80's go out and have something in the game - you have your Deity Quest lines - the ROK quests are great - and they start in the mid 60's - with Legendary Rewards

This is part of a microwave mentality - no one wants to wait for anthing you want to ding 80 do one final quest and have an Epic handed to you because you did all the preliminary work ahead of time.

"Go down and earn the right to live up here" - a semi famous quote.

It is done - it's in the game it's lvl 80 plead if you need to feel you must but resign yourself to the fact that when you get to 80 you will begin your quest.

Or are you wanting to get to the world discovery first that you want to start the quests powerlevel to 80 and get a reward. Hmmmmm maybe this is what Sony had in mind when they gave no details and made it lvl 80 specific.

If they even will give out world discovery rewards on these. This is the only reason I can see why less then 80 toons want to start the quest.

Also look at it this way - by the time you get to 80 you can wiki it and have all the work of discovery done for you so you can zip your way through it anyways.

bleap · 02-06-2008, 05:35 PM

Skywarrior wrote:

graewulf wrote:
Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think).
...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1"....
Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish.
But in any case, it really was a different game. If you don't want "stupid replies" that remind you that this isn't EQ1 then my advice would be to refrain from comparing anything to EQ1. But to answer your question more directly, Epics begin at level 80 because that is what the designers of the quest line intended. Nothing more, nothing less. There is plenty to do from level 1 to level 80. Having a questline or two that doesn't even begin until you are max level is, IMO, a good thing and provides something to look forward to once all the xp bars are broken again at max level.
For some folks, just getting to level 80 is an epic enough adventure.

Wrong but thanks for playing, the level cap was 60 when RoK was released, the epic quests were introduced either with the release or soon after. The quest could start at level 45, you could equip the weapon around level 52....Sure, I can't wait to reach level 80 so I can do more quests for NO adventure EXP to get a weapon I won't use again until the level cap is raised in 2 more years...This might be great for raiders, NOOOOOT so much for those of us who don't raid. I know when I reach level 80 my toon will be put into moth balls until the level cap is reached...I have 9 toons to level to 80....NOW if they decide to raise the level cap every year I might bother with this quest...And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...

02-06-2008, 12:02 PM	#1
graewulf Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 195	HIGHLIGHTS A new epic quest line is available for every class of adventurer and crafter who has reached level 80. The Avatars of the Gods have returned with renewed strength and new members: The Tribunal, Karana and Bertoxxolous. New mannequins are available for displaying armor and weapons in your house. You can acquire them from some of your more dedicated and advanced crafting friends. Two new UI windows are available: Pet Options and Connection Status. Check out the User Interface section for details. PvP armor sets and PvP based writs are now available on the PvP servers. Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think). ...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1".... __________________ 80 Wood Elf Ranger 80 Barbarian Mystic 80 Half-elf Shadowknight .....too many others to list... Cohort Chalybeius, Crushbone server

02-06-2008, 12:13 PM	#2
Finora Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,423	How about why not? It very likely has to do with the nature of the quests themselves honestly. The epic version probably has people tramping around Veeshan's Peak or something and I doubt there are many that would want to haul along a bunch of level 72's there (though I could be wrong having never been myself). __________________ Lady Finora Mystic of Prism Everfrost(Grobb) Finora of Valiant Knights Test Server

02-06-2008, 12:22 PM	#4
shadowgate Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Permafrost Posts: 267	It is 80th as Epic is the top quest line and the goal to reach and reserved for those being the best of the best of thier class... or at least the highest level! Plus making it 80 is one more way to slow "some" people down in getting them. __________________ Shadowgates 90 lvl Wizard / 90 Sage - League of The Ignoble Liver - Permafrost Server Avathar 90 lvl Warden Yarrr 90 lvl Dirge Blackmyth 69 lvl Necro

02-06-2008, 12:26 PM	#5
Skywarrior Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 726	graewulf wrote: Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think). ...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1".... Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish. But in any case, it really was a different game. If you don't want "stupid replies" that remind you that this isn't EQ1 then my advice would be to refrain from comparing anything to EQ1. But to answer your question more directly, Epics begin at level 80 because that is what the designers of the quest line intended. Nothing more, nothing less. There is plenty to do from level 1 to level 80. Having a questline or two that doesn't even begin until you are max level is, IMO, a good thing and provides something to look forward to once all the xp bars are broken again at max level. For some folks, just getting to level 80 is an epic enough adventure.

02-06-2008, 12:28 PM	#6
Saev General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 521	Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68. __________________

02-06-2008, 12:21 PM	#3
Aurumn Server: Unrest Guild: Executioners Rank: Teen of chaos (2 weeks + 6,857 astatus) Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,328	IMO an "epic" weapon denotes something that should be the best of the best. The ultimate challenge, so to speak. To make the weapon obtainable by someone who is (level wise) 75% of the way to the top of their profession would cheapen the accomplishment. Having both Legendary and Fabled versions gives folks with different playstyles a fair chance at it as long as their character is skilled enough (capped) to use it. Seems fair to me.

02-06-2008, 12:30 PM	#7
Jacobian21 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 172	Aside from the other things mentioned, I think it's good that it starts at 80 because it will give those ppl something to do besides stockpiling money, maxing out their aa at 140, farming raid zones for fabled gear and masters... etc. Not that I wouldn't mind being able to start it earlier, mind you (I'm at 75 atm), but I guess I can wait. __________________ Lobogrande 90 Carpenter/90 Guard/400 Tink Sapphiredragon 90 Sage/90 Illusionist/450 Tink Balinore 83 Alchemist/90 Mystic Rigidharmony 90 Woodworker/90 Dirge Bluelotus 90 Provisioner/90 Monk/400 Tink Daragon 90 Weaponsmith/83 Pally Frozenhellian 90 Armorer/82 Wiz/17 Tink Debonaire 90 Tailor/81 Conj Tempestdragon 83 Templar/14 Scholar Cityboy 90 Alchy/51 Fury/450 Muting/Adorning Masterslice 90 Jeweler/27 Swashy Cheesehead 80 Sage/35 Wiz Blackdiablo 80 Woodworker/26 Warlock Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - Nektulos Server

02-06-2008, 12:33 PM	#8
Skywarrior Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 726	Saevan wrote: Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68. Or make the first step of the quest achieving level 80. That starts at level 1. There ya go. An Epic Quest that begins at level 1 with the first step in the quest being to level to 80.

02-06-2008, 12:33 PM	#9
Bloodfa Server: Nagafen General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,873	Put it in as a level 72 quest and one could hit 80 and solo it up to the last boss, which would need a group instead of a raid. Take a level 72 out into Jarsath Wastes. Try to fight the lowest non-heroic monster. And when you're choosing the next respawn, contemplate why suddenly the NPC's hit like ton of bricks. Make it easier for one group and you trivialize it for another, or make it even-handed and say "here's when you can do it, I suggest you level up". I vote for the latter. __________________

02-06-2008, 02:06 PM	#10
Valsehna Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: House Velahr Rank: Senior Officer - Rhystall Council Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 228	Saevan wrote: Well, if it makes you feel better, you could say levelling through RoK is the first part of the epic quest, and you can start that around 68. Haha...that defines my recent level of gameplay perfectly, since many weeks past the expansion release, I am still only at 73 adventuring on a 99 percent soloing inquisitor. And it really does feel rather epic at times...hehee. Personally I believe part of the reason is to give kids even more reasons to use even more trailing, repetitive punctuation. ?????????????

02-06-2008, 02:11 PM	#11
Vonotar Server: Butcherblock Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,697	Every expansion has it's own "epic" sized questline, if your less than level 80 you should be doing Prismatics, Swords of Destiny etc etc.It's only right and proper that the 'pinnacle' weapons for your class should be available only to those who have reached the (current) end of the game.Note that I say this as a level 72 Wizard who is too busy looking after a guild and tradeskilling to get to Adventure level 80 anytime soon, so please don't bother with any "level 80's elitism" rubbish.

02-06-2008, 02:15 PM	#12
Cathars General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 446	Skywarrior wrote: graewulf wrote: Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think). ...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1".... Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish. The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious. But your point remains. And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally. That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work!

02-06-2008, 02:45 PM	#13
EQ2Magroo Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 756	If the quest started any earlier than level 80, then you'd trivialise the early parts for people who are already 80.They'd then complain that it was all too easy and no challenge etc., and threaten to quit en play WoW or something equally crazy It's a tough balancing act, and I think the devs have made the right call with positioning it right at the end-game. I would rather have this as something to look forward to at level 80 (when there is precious little else to look forward to) rather than being something I can just semi-AFK my way through.As others have said, a good idea is to consider the first part of the epic to be "get to level 80".

02-06-2008, 02:49 PM	#14
hellfire Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NY Posts: 1,842	Catharsis wrote: Skywarrior wrote: graewulf wrote: Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think). ...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1".... Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish. The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious. But your point remains. And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally. That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work! " /> Them raiseing faction on repeatable quests seems like a good hint as to needing multiple factions to. __________________ Summoner pets are 1/3 the dps of a summoner and yet our stats and modifiers do not affect them.Since a pet is 1/3 a summoners dps,a summoner receives 2/3 benefit from gear when compared to any other class. SHARED STATS AND MODIFIERS ARE A MUST! FIX SUMMONERS IN 08! FIX SUMMONERS IN 09! FIX SUMMONERS IN 10! 2011 and Finally we are Fixed! /Rides off into the sunset

02-06-2008, 02:55 PM	#15
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	Bigron@Najena wrote: Catharsis wrote: Skywarrior wrote: graewulf wrote: Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think). ...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1".... Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish. The cap was actually raised to 60 with Kunark, not Velious. But your point remains. And OP, consider that, for all we know right now, epics may require one, two, or all the Kunark factions at ally. That will keep you busy levelling ... Get to work! "> Them raiseing faction on repeatable quests seems like a good hint as to needing multiple factions to. I hope thats not the case. They forced me to solo to 80 and I refuse to grind faction just to get the quest starter for this stupid quest. Knowing SoE....thats what they consider "epic".....killing thousands of green solo mobs.

02-06-2008, 03:07 PM	#16
Apocroph Server: Butcherblock General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 448	Several of the original epics could be started early in life. Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be. By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level.

02-06-2008, 03:08 PM	#17
Bledso Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 222	Why level 80? Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item for crafters. On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items. Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun. You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80. Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now?

02-06-2008, 03:19 PM	#18
Apocroph Server: Butcherblock General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 448	Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote: Why level 80? Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item for crafters. On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items. Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun. You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80. Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now? With a quest this scale, the journey IS the reward. At least, it should be.Making them start at 80 only serves to make me feel like they started at the wrong end when they were trying to design an "epic" quest.

02-06-2008, 03:21 PM	#19
Kel Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 211	kuraan wrote: Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote: Why level 80? Because this is the reward for the Journey - It's one item for adventurers it's one item for crafters. On your way to 80 you will be rewarded with Legendary's chances at Fabled - work with or purchase mastercrafted items. Level 80's now have an item to strive for - one to achieve and attain for - ummm and thrown in is some fun. You are not left out - you too can get your's at level 80. Work your craft - slay your minions - learn about Norrath and set your goal - So the real question to you the OP why must you have it now? With a quest this scale, the journey IS the reward. At least, it should be.Making them start at 80 only serves to make me feel like they started at the wrong end when they were trying to design an "epic" quest. Uh, no?There is plenty of 'journey' along the way to level 80. After level 80, there isn't a whole lot to do.THIS is something to do at 80, you guys complaining because you 'took your time to enjoy all the content' and now you can't do something? Suck it up. It's your own fault. __________________ 80 Assassin, Crushbone

02-06-2008, 03:26 PM	#20
Dreadpatch Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 575	Just a quick question do you need to be max adventure and tradeskill in order to get your epic weapon? I am 80, but only 36 tradeskill (I pretty much hate tradeskilling, spamming 6 buttons kinda blows). Was just wondering and thx. __________________ Elusion 90 Coercer 250 AA Alendril 90 Troubador 250 AA Ribatio 90 Mystic 242 AA Dreadpatch 90 Swashbuckler 171 AA Delanar 70 Guardian Blackghost 39 (BG) Assassin

02-06-2008, 03:29 PM	#21
Kel Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 211	Dreadpatch wrote: Just a quick question do you need to be max adventure and tradeskill in order to get your epic weapon? I am 80, but only 36 tradeskill (I pretty much hate tradeskilling, spamming 6 buttons kinda blows). Was just wondering and thx. Not unless they want a riot. They added seperate TS 'epics' for the tradeskillers, as well, so I doubt it. __________________ 80 Assassin, Crushbone

02-06-2008, 03:32 PM	#22
Apocroph Server: Butcherblock General Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 448	Kel wrote: Uh, no?There is plenty of 'journey' along the way to level 80. After level 80, there isn't a whole lot to do.THIS is something to do at 80, you guys complaining because you 'took your time to enjoy all the content' and now you can't do something? Suck it up. It's your own fault. Uh, no?If you know there isn't a whole lot to do, why race? Make an alt, enjoy the content.It's not my fault you opted to hurry to 80 before you opted to take part in content that could include more people than you. So as you said, suck it up. It's your own fault.Note that I'm not saying the whole quest should be doable pre-80, I'm not saying the reward should be level 50.

02-06-2008, 04:14 PM	#23
Jovie Server: Guk Can't decide... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 880	getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point? Farming? A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull.

02-06-2008, 04:33 PM	#24
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Jovie@Guk wrote: getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared " /> Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point? Farming? A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull. I have to disagree on this, thee are over 3,000 plus quests you can do in the game that do not require you to be max level. This questline does and i think it is a good thing. If you wish to play casual and not be level 80, chances are you are not needing the item to handle the content that the epic is designed for. The game does not end at level 80, you still fill out your 140 AA's, work on quest lines/factions that can yield nice rewards, and work on upgrading your spells to masters plus gear that can handle the content you want. There is way too many people out there that want instant gratification in this game and want things all vanilla in form then complain everything is the same. You have the choice of leveling to 80 and trying the questline or level at your leisure and try it later on, nobody at this writing knows how many quests are involved, but many agree that the end item is level 80, so it makes sense to require a level 80 requirement to start. The Epics have been talked about since before ROK, so it shouldnt be a suprise that it requires level 80 to start people...

02-06-2008, 04:59 PM	#25
Bledso Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 222	Jovie@Guk wrote: getting an epic at level 80 is like getting a BFG in doom only to have a cease fire declared " width="15" height="15"> Seriously, your 80, probably at or near aa cap. What is the point of getting a new weapon at that point? Farming? A better design on the epic system would be completable at level 70 at one level of stats and the weapon grows with you as you level. Makes it actually usefull. One instance alone can answer this Turn 80 take a trip into Maiden's - then see if you want to be swinging a lvl 70 epic in there and there isn't a way for items to scale.

02-06-2008, 05:05 PM	#26
Jovie Server: Guk Can't decide... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 880	By what the previous two posters are saying, the epic won't be usefull until a future level cap increase. I am talking actual use. Use in developing your character. If your character is at level cap and is maxed on AA, then until the next level increase, your character is basically done, finished, at a plateau of which there can be no betterment. Therefore, the only use at that point is to farm. Of course every character will reach that point. That is not my argument. I am merely stating that it would feel of more use to be useable within at least 5 levels of max. Give the epic weapon a true purpose while you are making your way to the top. Not just a fancy ornament to show off.

02-06-2008, 05:06 PM	#27
Jovie Server: Guk Can't decide... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 880	Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote: Jovie@Guk wrote: One instance alone can answer this Turn 80 take a trip into Maden's - then see if you want to be swinging a lvl 70 epic in there and there isn't a way for items to scale. Sony has the technology to scale items. It's been used for years in eq1. In fact to a degree it is currently used in eq2 with the mentor system.

02-06-2008, 05:10 PM	#28
Zannah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	kuraan wrote: Several of the original epics could be started early in life. Personally, I think it was a good move.If you spend your entire adventuring career working on this quest, it's pretty effing epic already.Having them start at level 80 excludes a lot of variety right off the bat, and further solidifies them as end-game content, which the first phase didn't have to be. By all means, make the end steps high end, but getting people involved in the story of the world shouldn't have to wait until you're max level. Prismatic - know Giant, Learn Draconic (access into Obelisk of Lost Souls) GodKing - Thulian, Death's Whisper, Druzaic, HighElven (IIRC) Claymore - Draconic (giant, OoLS), Druzaic, Thulian (?), Volant (?) SoD - Thulian (sort of), OoLS access, and maybe more. There are plenty of quests that you don't have to do to get to lvl 80, but plenty that you have to complete to get certain quests at all. SoD started at lvl 60ish for the quests - lots of people had been 70 for a good long time when they started the quest, and part of the requirements to get far into the quest could be completed at lvl 40 ish (OoLS access). Epics are going to send you to VP, but Im sure the steps will send you or require you to have learned things along the way that you could learn at lvl 40. Those arent steps in the quest, just prerequisites to get there. Getting to lvl 80 is gonna be the 'easy' part. __________________ _______________________________________________ Strasha@~~Mistmoore~~ Permafrost 90 Shadow Knight Zannah@~~Mistmoore~~ Permafrost 71 Templar (Ret) Aerica et al@Freeport EQ1 Zannah@~~The Tribunal~~ Bristlebane-The Tribunal (Ret)

02-06-2008, 05:23 PM	#29
Bledso Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 222	Just some supposition here but, (this goes out to those who don't want to wait) Maybe the fact that lore knowledge is involved - possibly faction is involved this is an EPIC and therefore the Quest is of EPIC proportion - who is to say that the first mob you come to is going to be an Epic encounter - Just relax all let the 80's go out and have something in the game - you have your Deity Quest lines - the ROK quests are great - and they start in the mid 60's - with Legendary Rewards This is part of a microwave mentality - no one wants to wait for anthing you want to ding 80 do one final quest and have an Epic handed to you because you did all the preliminary work ahead of time. "Go down and earn the right to live up here" - a semi famous quote. It is done - it's in the game it's lvl 80 plead if you need to feel you must but resign yourself to the fact that when you get to 80 you will begin your quest. Or are you wanting to get to the world discovery first that you want to start the quests powerlevel to 80 and get a reward. Hmmmmm maybe this is what Sony had in mind when they gave no details and made it lvl 80 specific. If they even will give out world discovery rewards on these. This is the only reason I can see why less then 80 toons want to start the quest. Also look at it this way - by the time you get to 80 you can wiki it and have all the work of discovery done for you so you can zip your way through it anyways.

02-06-2008, 05:35 PM	#30
bleap Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 582	Skywarrior wrote: graewulf wrote: Why do we have to wait until we're level 80? In EQ1, when epics were put in, the level cap was 60, but you could start them much earlier (lvl 52, I think). ...and please no stupid replies like "this isn't EQ1".... Actually, when Epics were introduced into EQ1 I think the level cap was still 50. IIRC the level cap did not increase until Velious was released. Could be wrong though. Also, most epics in EQ1 could be started much earlier than 50, although they usually could not be finished prior to 50. I know, for instance, that the Shaman Epic was startable at level 30-35ish. But in any case, it really was a different game. If you don't want "stupid replies" that remind you that this isn't EQ1 then my advice would be to refrain from comparing anything to EQ1. But to answer your question more directly, Epics begin at level 80 because that is what the designers of the quest line intended. Nothing more, nothing less. There is plenty to do from level 1 to level 80. Having a questline or two that doesn't even begin until you are max level is, IMO, a good thing and provides something to look forward to once all the xp bars are broken again at max level. For some folks, just getting to level 80 is an epic enough adventure. Wrong but thanks for playing, the level cap was 60 when RoK was released, the epic quests were introduced either with the release or soon after. The quest could start at level 45, you could equip the weapon around level 52....Sure, I can't wait to reach level 80 so I can do more quests for NO adventure EXP to get a weapon I won't use again until the level cap is raised in 2 more years...This might be great for raiders, NOOOOOT so much for those of us who don't raid. I know when I reach level 80 my toon will be put into moth balls until the level cap is reached...I have 9 toons to level to 80....NOW if they decide to raise the level cap every year I might bother with this quest...And to those of you who say that the epic is the pinnacle of accomplishment...well just wait until the level cap is increased and your precious epic weapon is replaced by treasured loot off some yard trash MoB....Or MAYBE SOE is sending us a message that there will never be another level cap increase??? who knows...