STEALTH CHANGE ON TEST SERVER - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME IT IS A MISTAKE! [Archive] - Page 2

Kenazeer

08-30-2007, 09:31 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only things the change effects, in my opinion: 1 - High level guilds will no longer accept brand new players since new players won't be able to contribute and would need help to complete HQs.This assumes that a guild has a fixed number of openings. Meaning that if they take level 20 Joe, they can't take level 70 Frank. If that is the case then why wouldn't they take level 70 Frank anyway under the current systems since he can contribute more.If a guild does not have a fixed number of openings, then why wouldn't they still take level 20 Joe, because something is better than nothing.2 - high level guilds will discourage playing alts unless they're classes that can complete low level HQs solo. Same thing as above. A higher level player currently has more contribution potential than a lower level player. If a guild was off that mindset, that they must maximize the potential status, what is keeping them from doing it now.3 - those who enjoy playing more than one character and play more hours than the average player will be effectively locked into doing an endless writ grind to contribute.I don't beleive it would take an endless writ grind to contribute the same daily amount of status that status items do, at least if you are killing appropritely tiered content for those items. </blockquote>Perhaps SOE will up writ rewards a tad to offset the loss of status items and to counter the effect of more people doing writs in order to level a guild.

Cuz

08-30-2007, 09:32 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>To all those that are fretting over their low level characters not being able to contribute to the guild do the following:1. Go to Darklight Woods2. Kill werewolves and drakes3. Loot the L&L parts4. Sell those parts on the broker for upwards of 1p5. Buy the status items of an appropriate levelReally no one is stopping a lower level character from contributing to the guild. And for anyone that thinks that you can not make money at a low level you are just not trying hard enough. If they truly wanted to stop low levels from helping the guild they would make the items no trade and stop lower level writs and HQs from giving status.</blockquote>Why bring the low level character?

Lionidas

08-30-2007, 09:38 PM

<cite>Cuz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>To all those that are fretting over their low level characters not being able to contribute to the guild do the following:1. Go to Darklight Woods2. Kill werewolves and drakes3. Loot the L&L parts4. Sell those parts on the broker for upwards of 1p5. Buy the status items of an appropriate levelReally no one is stopping a lower level character from contributing to the guild. And for anyone that thinks that you can not make money at a low level you are just not trying hard enough. If they truly wanted to stop low levels from helping the guild they would make the items no trade and stop lower level writs and HQs from giving status.</blockquote>Why bring the low level character?</blockquote>Because those were the ones in question of not being able to contribute to the guild.

Rijacki

08-30-2007, 09:50 PM

A better change than this would be to base the status given/not-given based on Character Level. If a character handing in an item is within 20 levels of the item, the guild status is unchanged, if greater than 20, reduced guild status (for example 1/2 current). This would allow low levels to contribute fully and would even encourage adding new players or alts to guilds. Yes, a high level could give the status items to a low level unless items are also No Trade.

KKLSTARR

08-30-2007, 09:50 PM

Wow ... I need to come to some of yalls servers ... I mean , I have a character in every tier ( cept T6 , 2 in T7 tho ) and i swear I never get the kind of GS yall do from a few status items. I mean , I usually go a week without turning my items in. Very seldom do I drop any in PvP. And I still never manage to turn in more than 2 dozen. And thats a lot for me. I solo / duo a lot so they arent divided up amongst other group members. So I just want to know where yall are finding these hundreds of status items some of you are getting in like 1 day of killing. I mean seriously ... Cause thats how many you would have to turn in on a regular basis to get the kind of GS that yall are crying about losing. ( obviously not talking about hoarding / buying ).Look , as someone pointed out earlier, im obnoxious. Maybe so.... but seriously , some of you are making this WAY bigger than what it is. Say you go out and adventure for 4 hours. In that 4 hours you MIGHT get half a dozen status items ( and imo thats a lot for 4 hrs ). Now since we are talking about lower lvl players in a lvl 60 guild ... 6 status items at say 200SP each. 1200 SP for the player and a whopping 120 pts for the guild. What lvl 60 guild cares about the lvl 20 player contributing that 120 GSP ?? Am I missing something ?? Maybe I am. Please , someone tell me that im wrong and a lvl 60 guild would actually get like 1200000 pts from those status items. Then I will shut up. If not , go do a writ and earn twice that much in a few minutes. You also get exp for the quest.

Dasein

08-30-2007, 09:59 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>On Live currently: Low level Status items give a fraction of guild status that high level ones do -and- the amount of staus needed for 1 level between 50 and 60 is vastly more than the status needed for 1 level between, for example, 10 and 20. At this time, on Live, it is far more effective to use a level 10 Status item for a level 10 guild than for a level 50 guild. Unless, in the future, both Status items give the same amount no matter what their level -and- the amount of status to level a guild becomes a flat amount for all levels, without the change on Test it would still be more effective to use a low level item for a low level guild than for a high level one. The only things the change effects, in my opinion: 1 - High level guilds will no longer accept brand new players since new players won't be able to contribute and would need help to complete HQs. 2 - high level guilds will discourage playing alts unless they're classes that can complete low level HQs solo. 3 - those who enjoy playing more than one character and play more hours than the average player will be effectively locked into doing an endless writ grind to contribute.</blockquote>Doing a single set of low-level writs or a single low-level HQ will contribute more guild status than a character is ever likely to get from low-level status items through normal game play. You seem to be greatly over-estimating the amount of status these items contribute. In the long run, the best way to level the guild is to get more members, since guild status is a flat 10% of any and all perosnal status earned. Lower level players do not hurt the guild, but can only help when it comes to levelling. Now, there might be other reasons to turn away lower level players, but guild levelling speed is not one of them.

Devilsbane

08-30-2007, 10:01 PM

Here are a few number to chew over. Lets say it takes 3 million guild status to make Guild level 61. Then the amount per level raises by 10%. That means it would take just under 48 million guild status to make guild level 70.How many stacks of t7 (13k personal/1.3K guild status each) could one character horde? First status items can only be held in salesman crates, Ebony is the largest with 60 slots. One character can only have at most 6 broker slots. That comes out to 360 stacks (60x6). Second if the character has 6 broker slots they have 6 house vaults. Ebony is the largest strongbox with 36 slots. That comes out to another 216 stacks (6x36). Finally, each character has 8 personal bank slots filled with Ebony strongboxes. That comes out to 288 more stacks (8x32). Grand total of 864 stacks of T7 status items. That means one character can possibly hold 11 million personal/1.1 million guild status at one time.So it would take 44 characters stocked to the gills with T7 status items to reach Guild level 70. How many status items does that come out too? 760,320 status items (864 stacks x 44 characters x 20 per stack) If status items drop at ratio of 1:5 NPC kills. It would take 4 million T7 NPC kills to find enough status items or 41k NPC kills per day since the release of EoF.It is simply impossible for a guild to horde enough status items to reach guild level 80. When RoK is released the amount of guild status needed to reach just guild level 70 will probably be even 3 to 5 times greater then my example.

Kenazeer

08-30-2007, 10:07 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here are a few number to chew over. Lets say it takes 3 million guild status to make Guild level 61. Then the amount per level raises by 10%. That means it would take just under 48 million guild status to make guild level 70.How many stacks of t7 (13k personal/1.3K guild status each) could one character horde? First status items can only be held in salesman crates, Ebony is the largest with 60 slots. One character can only have at most 6 broker slots. That comes out to 360 stacks (60x6). Second if the character has 6 broker slots they have 6 house vaults. Ebony is the largest strongbox with 36 slots. That comes out to another 216 stacks (6x36). Finally, each character has 8 personal bank slots filled with Ebony strongboxes. That comes out to 288 more stacks (8x32). Grand total of 864 stacks of T7 status items. That means one character can possibly hold 11 million personal/1.1 million guild status at one time.So it would take 44 characters stocked to the gills with T7 status items to reach Guild level 70. How many status items does that come out too? 760,320 status items (864 stacks x 44 characters x 20 per stack) If status items drop at ratio of 1:5 NPC kills. It would take 4 million T7 NPC kills to find enough status items or 41k NPC kills per day since the release of EoF.It is simply impossible for a guild to horde enough status items to reach guild level 80. When RoK is released the amount of guild status needed to reach just guild level 70 will probably be even 3 to 5 times greater then my example.</blockquote>What made you choose 3 million for 60-61?

Devilsbane

08-30-2007, 10:16 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here are a few number to chew over. Lets say it takes 3 million guild status to make Guild level 61. Then the amount per level raises by 10%. That means it would take just under 48 million guild status to make guild level 70.How many stacks of t7 (13k personal/1.3K guild status each) could one character horde? First status items can only be held in salesman crates, Ebony is the largest with 60 slots. One character can only have at most 6 broker slots. That comes out to 360 stacks (60x6). Second if the character has 6 broker slots they have 6 house vaults. Ebony is the largest strongbox with 36 slots. That comes out to another 216 stacks (6x36). Finally, each character has 8 personal bank slots filled with Ebony strongboxes. That comes out to 288 more stacks (8x32). Grand total of 864 stacks of T7 status items. That means one character can possibly hold 11 million personal/1.1 million guild status at one time.So it would take 44 characters stocked to the gills with T7 status items to reach Guild level 70. How many status items does that come out too? 760,320 status items (864 stacks x 44 characters x 20 per stack) If status items drop at ratio of 1:5 NPC kills. It would take 4 million T7 NPC kills to find enough status items or 41k NPC kills per day since the release of EoF.It is simply impossible for a guild to horde enough status items to reach guild level 80. When RoK is released the amount of guild status needed to reach just guild level 70 will probably be even 3 to 5 times greater then my example.</blockquote>What made you choose 3 million for 60-61?</blockquote>I talked it over with my guild. We remember that it took like 30k guild status to make 1% at guild level 59. So that means it took 3 million to go from guild level 59 to 60. Do you think it took more or less then 3 million? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Lodrelhai

08-30-2007, 10:32 PM

Thank you, Gnobrin, for the clarification.However, I feel this is a very, very bad way to prevent trivializing of the new guild cap, for two reasons First, the short-term capacity of this change to accomplish the (perceived) goal is limited and the long-term capacity nonexistent, while simultaneously devaluing low-mid level play to many. Second, by all appearances, it is meant to 'fix an exploit' which is being used in other aspects of the game without penalty - unequal treatment for the same crime. This is going to be a bit long, so I apologize in advance.To the first point: as has been stated previously and repeatedly, the guilds most likely targeted by this (those stockpiling status items in preparation for RoK release) will, in the long term, be the least affected. Instead of hitting the cap in a day or so, they'll reach it in a week or so, as these guilds also typically have the manpower to do high-level raids for status-giving mobs, plus higher-value writs and probably a few HQs held in reserve as well. Smaller, casual guilds, having less manpower, will feel it a bit as, like income in the real world, when status is comes in small trickles, every point counts.The ones affected most, however, will be the new players and alt-aholics, especially those in these small guilds. Not because these status items make a significant contribution (though they can in the long-term), but because perceived value often takes prescient over actual value, both in how others see a person and how one sees themselves. Minor or not, the contribution to the guild from those status items is still a contribution. It's a way for the casual player who logs on for a couple hours a week to do some small part without having to spend most of those couple hours writ-grinding or going through HQs. Yes, it's going to take them weeks to contribute the same amount as someone doing a couple writs - but it's still something, and if the guild is okay with that and the person is okay with that, then why should it matter how slowly it's happening? These people don't care how fast they get to that cap - they want to enjoy the trip.As an example, I'll cite my guild - level 36 at this time. We have lots and lots of alts. Several of us have 2 accounts. Most of us have been in the game since 1-2 months from launch. None of us have more than one character above level 60, and very few of us have more than one above level 50. The majority of our characters are in the T3-T4 range. We are very, VERY casual gamers.Having done most of the HQs on our mains already, as well as the lower level ones on a couple alts, most of us are heartily sick of them and will not do them again unless a new player wants one or the quest reward is something a particular character can use. We rarely writ-grind on the lower level alts because we can accomplish in one round of writs on our high-level mains the same or more than our alts can do with a whole day of writ-grinding. And, yes, writ-grinding gets very, very boring. Even the scaleborn sentries for Qeynos writs get tedious after a while.We accept that the majority of our guild contribution is done by our mains. We accept that we will never reach guild cap until/unless Sony puts a moratorium on guild levels. We still get a bit of a thrill every time one of our lowbies turns in their status items and gives the guild a little boost. We've had more than once where a new guild level announcement went out to the guild without a writ/hq announcement, and when everyone asks what happened, someone mentions they just turned in some status items they'd had for a while. (Yes, we all get stockpiles of status items on our alts - since they don't writ-grind, they don't visit the writ-givers/relic hunters to turn them in regularly.) Things like that are FUN. They're an extra boost, a neat little bonus that helps us enjoy the alts a bit more and add an extra sense of accomplishment to those characters.We're going to lose that for our T3s the day this goes live, and for our T4s in none-too-short a time. It's lost perceived value, and while I understand that sometimes game changes cause negative effects, this is an effect that hits only low-level characters, and one that will affect progressively higher level characters the longer it goes on. Because we'll still get that fun little boost from our highest characters, so it's just that much less incentive to work with alts.For the second point - the 'exploit' of stockpiling these items until such time as they can be used for progression. I'm not sure how this is any different from what adventurers are doing every single day. How often do people hold off from turning in a grey quest until they have a chance to mentor someone and make the quest blue or green, thereby earning achievement as well as experience? How many people buy collection quest items rather than seeking them out? Alternately, how many farm collection items for alts or broker sales? How many level-capped adventurers have complete quests they are not turning in, knowing that RoK is coming with a level increase? How many capped tradeskillers are not crafting any recipes they received once hitting the cap for the same reason?It seems to me (assuming the stockpiling is the reason for this) that it's not the stockpiling itself that is the concern, but the degree. While I doubt there's very many doing this, I can easily imagine there are some people with 5-6 alts, each with 8 32-slot boxes packed with stacks of these. They may have even gotten them all by harvesting them personally while fighting non-grey mobs, having started hording them as soon as their guild hit level 60. The tradeskiller stockpiling recipes has a set limit on how many they can have saved, as most/all recipes gained up to lvl 69 were probably used to reach 70. An adventurer looking for someone to mentor for a quest turn-in has a wait of, at best, a few days. And even if an adventurer has not turned in a single quest since hitting lvl 70, they have at most 75 ready to turn in the day Kunark launches. Hardly enough to push them to lvl 80 in one go. If stockpiling, in and of itself, were the issue, then these forms of xp-stockpiling would also have to be addressed.But then, if the stockpiling in and of itself is acceptable, why is the large-scale version not? How is this so much more damaging? Is it damaging at all? Who does it hurt?Lower-level guilds who can use the items? Even with stockpiling, there's plenty available on the broker. Obviously the people selling them aren't concerned with using them to level their own guild. The people getting them through adventuring are earning them through effort. The people buying them have also earned them, having done whatever they did to earn the coin in the first place. (I certainly haven't seen any NPC saying 'Welcome to Norrath! Here's 100p to get you started!" If there is such an npc giving out free coin, please let me know.)Are the high-level guilds who are trivializing the content so fast being harmed? They apparently don't think so. Whatever is, to them, satisfying about this game, it's apparently not the long, slow grind.Are the guilds who don't get to the new cap first being harmed? Maybe as a matter of pride. And sometimes guilds that do get their first can be real jerks about it. But this change doesn't affect that, because no matter how many obstacles are put in the way of leveling, someone is going to get there first. Unless Kunark is instituting a new guild system whereby only one guild can be lvl 80 on each server, only 25 lvl 70-79, etc, the fact that someone got there first does not prevent anyone else from enjoying that top-level content if and when they reach lvl 80 guild themselves.So all and all, this seems to be an effort to penalize those who had the foresight to plan ahead and save against the future, which is actually going to do very little to them but potentially cause a lot of collateral damage. Funny, I'd always thought planning ahead was a good thing. Those stockpiled status items, to me, are no more or less wrong to have than a savings or retirement fund - some folks have them, some folks don't, some can't afford them, but if you can do it, it's a good idea.I guess that would make this nerf the EQ2 equivalent of the S&L scandal.

Kaalenarc

08-30-2007, 10:39 PM

So thats it? No explanation? No discussion ? No acknowledgement that some folks are upset? Just "we're adding the notes now " and a warning about flaming? Wow. How about some dialogue DEV team? Thanks for clarifying exactly what the change is, and is not. It is appreciated. I was hoping for more though. Can we maybe have an alternate solution to the problem? Clearly folks are upset...

ZeyGnome

08-30-2007, 10:40 PM

Easiest way to acomplish what you want SoE, just make the below restriction Level 60, that way up till level 60 you can turn in whatever you want, but it needs to be tier specific between G60 and G80. Unless, of course, you intend on removing all the guild status (and levels) from all the guilds that 'exploited' his mechanism in the past. Cause really, you are pusnishing everyone for the actions of a few, yet again.Very typical SoE move, reminds me of the old days.

Firecracker

08-30-2007, 10:42 PM

I can't belive some is saying make them no trade, Yoo hoo they drop off mobs more then needed to make them no trade and that would be waste as well. My idea is make it work like where they have a higher range then lets say the first set of them can help a guild clear up to lvl 30.so it works like 10-30, 20-40, 30-50, 40-60, 50-70,and 60-80I think this would work out best for all and be better way of doing especially for them lower level guilds that need all status they can get. As for them high level guilds many will raid soon in T8 zones that give thier guilds status I am sure and that will level there guild pretty fast so anways. I feel this change as it now will hurt the lower, poorer guilds more so then stop them ones who have stored them up RoKAnyways that is my opionon on this subject

Kenazeer

08-30-2007, 10:49 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>I talked it over with my guild. We remember that it took like 30k guild status to make 1% at guild level 59. So that means it took 3 million to go from guild level 59 to 60. Do you think it took more or less then 3 million? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I was just curious. It seemed like I remembered our guild not having an ungodly amount of status when we dinged 60. For poops and smiles I used the guild search function on EQ2players to look at level 59 guilds and their accumulated status.Alte Garde 6 millionAussie Battlers 7.2 millionBloodthorn 7.7 millionCannon Fodder 4.0 millionDark Hand 7.7 millionDark Legion 2.5 millionEevo 7.0 millionEpic 6.9 millionEquillibrium 6.1 millionI figured that was a random enough sample.I also looked at a pretty stable guild on my server that dinged 60 just last month and they had currently accumulated 7.5 million status.Given these numbers I would say it is unlikely it will take 3 million status to get from 60-61. I really cant offer a guess myself, but just looking at these numbers I don't see 3 million fitting into any kind of progression.

Kenazeer

08-30-2007, 10:55 PM

<cite>ZeyGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Easiest way to acomplish what you want SoE, just make the below restriction Level 60, that way up till level 60 you can turn in whatever you want, but it needs to be tier specific between G60 and G80. Unless, of course, you intend on removing all the guild status (and levels) from all the guilds that 'exploited' his mechanism in the past. Cause really, you are pusnishing everyone for the actions of a few, yet again.Very typical SoE move, reminds me of the old days.</blockquote>Simple but elegant solution to the problem that strikes a middle ground in my mind. Unless they are going to retroactively add some pretty good GL rewards at the lower levels I don't see how letting the status quo continue would be a problem.

LibraTari

08-30-2007, 11:57 PM

If you are a low level character in a high level guild ... for you to contrubute .. just go and buy plat from a plat broker, and then buy tier 8 items.. thats all... solves the problem. Thats how you will contrubute, this change will only encourage people to buy plat, and here I thought eq2 was trying to avoid these things.

Rijacki

08-31-2007, 12:18 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>On Live currently: Low level Status items give a fraction of guild status that high level ones do -and- the amount of staus needed for 1 level between 50 and 60 is vastly more than the status needed for 1 level between, for example, 10 and 20. At this time, on Live, it is far more effective to use a level 10 Status item for a level 10 guild than for a level 50 guild. Unless, in the future, both Status items give the same amount no matter what their level -and- the amount of status to level a guild becomes a flat amount for all levels, without the change on Test it would still be more effective to use a low level item for a low level guild than for a high level one. The only things the change effects, in my opinion: 1 - High level guilds will no longer accept brand new players since new players won't be able to contribute and would need help to complete HQs. 2 - high level guilds will discourage playing alts unless they're classes that can complete low level HQs solo. 3 - those who enjoy playing more than one character and play more hours than the average player will be effectively locked into doing an endless writ grind to contribute.</blockquote>Doing a single set of low-level writs or a single low-level HQ will contribute more guild status than a character is ever likely to get from low-level status items through normal game play. You seem to be greatly over-estimating the amount of status these items contribute. In the long run, the best way to level the guild is to get more members, since guild status is a flat 10% of any and all perosnal status earned. Lower level players do not hurt the guild, but can only help when it comes to levelling. Now, there might be other reasons to turn away lower level players, but guild levelling speed is not one of them.</blockquote>Part of my point is that they currently are a minor amount, but they are a contribution by those lower level characters and/or new players. While doing writs, you can get status item drops which increases the contribution you can give to the guild. While doing HQs, you can get status item drops which you can also contribute. In addition, this will be yet one more benefit of mentoring removed. While mentoring (other than just to get a quest turn-in, I mean -really- mentoring) you can get status items. Currently you can turn them in and not have your time be a 'total loss' for your own contribution to the guild. In the future, not only can you not turn them in, nor can the lower level character you were mentoring if he/she was in the same guild, thus, even less of a reason to mentor those who are lower level (except for your own quest turn-ins, of course).The amount of status currently garnered by these items for a high level guild makes this change even more pointless. It's not going to affect the hoarders much (they'd more likely be hoarding T7 items anyway, since they give more guild status). It's affects will only be felt by those who have lower level characters in higher level guilds (i.e. new players and those players with alts). Why penalise them and make their participation in a guild discounted?

Deggials

08-31-2007, 12:47 AM

<cite>Allurana wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a player on the test server and as a player on the live server, guild leader, etc... I respectfully request the Developers change the new status loot item from what is currently on the test server to "No-Trade". I have about 4 posts in this thread so far and as the original poster of this thread, yes I was very upset last night when I discovered that SOE was planning on killing my guild contest and nullifying my many hours, days, months and platinum of status item collecting. It is very obvious why this change is being made and I can not argue with the need for it.I do also respectfully ask that if my request above in this specific post not be granted that SOE consider a "buy out" of existing status items similar to the adornment buyout when you changed them from 400hp to 100hp. I think this would be warranted and fair. My guild and I will adjust to this new twist in the game but I strongly feel that SOE should offer some sort of equitable restitution for our time and fun we were planning on having. Thank you,Allurana</blockquote> By making them no trade u are telling people who have low adventure level crafters that they must level to get status, suppose said crafter (who has problems with ts writs i.e armorer,tailor,weaponsmith, alchy to name a few) wants a six slot house, are there any 6 slot houses in any of the citys without a status requirement?What about 6 slot status houses in neriak and keth or even 6 slot non status houses in neriak and keth for those that can't afford the status requirement if items are made no-trade, doesnt seem balanced if u force the crafter(who wants a low power level to craft) to adventure but not force the adventurer to craft(way higher than ts level 9).I think what we are looking for is to have the status to guild removed from items (while still giving personal status and being TRADEABLE), that way it is fair to crafters and adventurers alike tho still leaves out low level adventures in high end guilds.

Ramius613

08-31-2007, 01:02 AM

I just don't see the point of implementing this change in the first place. I mean, like has been said earlier, it will take the big guild a couple of weeks to get to 80 as opposed to a couple of days. What then, look I have a new mount that travels 5% faster than you. TBH, being at guild cap is not that great, you get a few things that you normally couldn't. If hitting the cap was actually rewarding, and I'm talking about being able to buy items that would make a larger difference in game play than the totems currently offered, and appearance. Oh well, I'm sure our guild will hit 80 within a month or 2 of RoK launch, it only took us about 4 months to go from 0 to 60.

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 06:18 AM

<cite>LibraTari wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you are a low level character in a high level guild ... for you to contrubute .. just go and buy plat from a plat broker, and then buy tier 8 items.. thats all... solves the problem. Thats how you will contrubute, this change will only encourage people to buy plat, and here I thought eq2 was trying to avoid these things.</blockquote>This is pretty much the case... a lot of status item sellers are (judging by the amount of items they sell and their lack of vowels in name) farmers connected with the plat sellers. (However the trail isn't obvious enough for Sony to ban them ::rolleyes:: )So while buying status items isn't in the spirit of what they are there for (i.e. your not killing the mobs yourself). Those who *do* buy them, will be forced to buy the higher and more expensive status items in order to progress their guild. Whereas currently, if a 300status item is less than half the price of a 600status item you would buy two of the 300status items instead. This will mean that the higher status items will go up in price, thus increasing the amount of gold that the farmers charge and at the same time increase the amount of plat purchased by those willing to buy plat to spend on status items.This change effectively will help to swell the bank accounts of the plat selling companies... way to go Sony!In the meanwhile, low level players in high level guilds are penalized for not joining a low level guild....Before people get the wrong idea, let me just say that our guild is only 23, at this level we won't feel too much impact from this change. We might even be able to capitalise on the glut of status items that will no doubt arrive on the broker when the higher guilds realise that they won't receive guild status for them... But this change is wrong! Simply because two low level characters in different guilds will be treated differently. 'Joe' a level 20 in a level 10 guild will get full credit for every status item he turns in. 'Keith' a level 20 in a level 50 guild cannot receive any guild status from status items he can loot. It's not just about levelling the guild, it's about increasing your status level/standing in the guild so that other guild members can see that you are willing to contribute (and that your not sending status items to alts, and/or completing HQ's up to the last stage/mob with the intention of turning them in once you have changed guild, I have seen this happen in some guilds!!)This change harms low level players who join high level guilds, given that virtually all guilds listed on the guild recruiter are high level you can guarentee that the majority of new players will never receive any guild status for status items.A solution needs to be found that does not penalise low level players and/or low level guilds. The solution is obvious, make status loot items 'turn in' the moment they are looted. Alternatively remove them altogether and simply apply status to all named heroics. But please don't arbitrarily restrict some players to writs and HQ's simply because they chose to join a guild a few levels higher than their adventure level.

Catria

08-31-2007, 06:42 AM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ZeyGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Easiest way to acomplish what you want SoE, just make the below restriction Level 60, that way up till level 60 you can turn in whatever you want, but it needs to be tier specific between G60 and G80. Unless, of course, you intend on removing all the guild status (and levels) from all the guilds that 'exploited' his mechanism in the past. Cause really, you are pusnishing everyone for the actions of a few, yet again.Very typical SoE move, reminds me of the old days.</blockquote>Simple but elegant solution to the problem that strikes a middle ground in my mind. Unless they are going to retroactively add some pretty good GL rewards at the lower levels I don't see how letting the status quo continue would be a problem.</blockquote>This is an excellent idea. If you are worried about guild skyrocketing to lvl 80 on hoarded SP items, just make the restriction apply to guild levels 60 and up.

Allurana

08-31-2007, 07:20 AM

<cite>Deggials wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Allurana wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a player on the test server and as a player on the live server, guild leader, etc... I respectfully request the Developers change the new status loot item from what is currently on the test server to "No-Trade". I have about 4 posts in this thread so far and as the original poster of this thread, yes I was very upset last night when I discovered that SOE was planning on killing my guild contest and nullifying my many hours, days, months and platinum of status item collecting. It is very obvious why this change is being made and I can not argue with the need for it.I do also respectfully ask that if my request above in this specific post not be granted that SOE consider a "buy out" of existing status items similar to the adornment buyout when you changed them from 400hp to 100hp. I think this would be warranted and fair. My guild and I will adjust to this new twist in the game but I strongly feel that SOE should offer some sort of equitable restitution for our time and fun we were planning on having. Thank you,Allurana</blockquote> By making them no trade u are telling people who have low adventure level crafters that they must level to get status, suppose said crafter (who has problems with ts writs i.e armorer,tailor,weaponsmith, alchy to name a few) wants a six slot house, are there any 6 slot houses in any of the citys without a status requirement?What about 6 slot status houses in neriak and keth or even 6 slot non status houses in neriak and keth for those that can't afford the status requirement if items are made no-trade, doesnt seem balanced if u force the crafter(who wants a low power level to craft) to adventure but not force the adventurer to craft(way higher than ts level 9).I think what we are looking for is to have the status to guild removed from items (while still giving personal status and being TRADEABLE), that way it is fair to crafters and adventurers alike tho still leaves out low level adventures in high end guilds.</blockquote>I have 7 low adventure level crafters that are crafting level 70 - they have no problem getting status with crafting writs which is argueably the easiest way in the game to earn status to date.No one should have a problem with crafting writs - just do the non-timed ones like I do - complete them at your leisure and still give a HUGE boost to status and guild exp.As for the power issue on crafters, once again, you do not need low power or to be naked to craft - I have all 9 crafting professions at level 70 - I only used durability counters the entire time on ALL of them and I NEVER ran out of power and I ALWAYS make pristine quality. THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH CRAFTING. It is now insanely easy to do and to level.This thread was specifically the fall out of the proposed change on the test server in regards to the status items.Yes, I was a saver/hoader of these items, but as of last night I listed them ALL on the broker for sale. Most of them have sold. So go ahead with your plans SOE - I don't care anymore. I have already rescheduled city guild raids on our guild calendar and I am going to get back into the writ grind mindset.Allurana out

Naglfar

08-31-2007, 07:43 AM

Great change, with a no-trade on these items it would be perfect. And I hope the leveling will be very long.I can't believe so much people are complaining about each tiny difficulty added to the game.Do you remember the leveling on original release ? It was a real accomplishment, with loss of guild xp when members leaved the guild. Now it's really easy to level, just go out do some writs and raids, and ding. What a big deal if it takes several month instead of 1 day ?

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 07:52 AM

<cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great change, with a no-trade on these items it would be perfect. And I hope the leveling will be very long.I can't believe so much people are complaining about each tiny difficulty added to the game.Do you remember the leveling on original release ? It was a real accomplishment, with loss of guild xp when members leaved the guild. Now it's really easy to level, just go out do some writs and raids, and ding. What a big deal if it takes several month instead of 1 day ?</blockquote>YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINTPeople will be treated differently depending on their guild's level.This is not about the levelling speed of guilds, this is about that level 20 player not being able to contribute to their level 60 guild via status items, while a level 20 player in a level 10 guild can.It's about the numbers that appear next to your name when you press 'U'.That is what it is about for the majority of people who are not in level 60 guilds.That said, no-trade is a viable alternative option to these changes.Edit:Just checked your guild. See that level 22 applicant in your guild? They can never contribute using status items and receive any guild recognition for it, because they are 38 levels below your guild level (60).Meanwhile a level 22 member of my guild can happily turn in status items they loot for recognition in guild (we are guild level 23).See the difference? Is this really fair to the individual to punish them for choosing a higher guild?If the majority of you think that, I will happily welcome any low level players who you don't care about representing.

katalmach

08-31-2007, 07:54 AM

Leave the status items the way they are. They're fine right now - a great way for people to either earn status as they adventure, or to make money by selling them.There are better ways of hindering guilds from reaching level 80 on release day of the expansion pack. What I personally would do is stagger the release of the levels by tying them to events in-game. Basically, just split the levels into four unlockable stages - 60-65, 66-70, 71-75 and finally 76-80. There would be four ways to unlock the levels, such as: Completing the rare collection for RoK. Completing a live event such as the building of griffon towers/spires. Killing a new contested mob. Clearing Veeshan's Peak. It would be just like unlocking the frogloks - when someone completes the collection a server message will say "The noble player X has unlocked level 71-75!" and when a guild manages to kill the contested mob, it'll say "The awesome guild X has unlocked level 76-80!" and everybody will rejoice. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> Obviously, the levels would be unlocked across the server, and I purposefully picked challenges both for raiders and for casuals - everybody should have a shot at this.Basically, that would completely eliminate any chance of guilds levelling to 80 on the first day of the expansion, and it would also create a challenge, something of a competition, something to do for the community as well as boosting the community spirit whenever somebody does manage to unlock levels. It's a much, much better way of going about it than changing status items ever will be!

MrWolfie

08-31-2007, 08:07 AM

Personally, I believe this to be a bad idea. We've had many reasons for NOT making the change, not least that even thousands of status items isn't going to make that much of a difference. What makes a difference is how many people a guild can call upon to do writs, and whether that guild raids.Quite simply, a raiding guild with lots of people has a massive advantage over any other make-up of guild ~ I would have thought this alone was against the spirit of a "casual" game; that casual guilds actually have to work harder and more often to reap the same rewards (and while that doesn't strike me as wrong, the game, in this arena, certainly isn't tailored to the casual market). However, I'm not here to discuss how easy it is to level a guild when certain parameters are met.No, I fully expect this change to go live, since it will make no diference to large raiding guilds, and will only hamper casual guilds, probably really affecting those who still haven't reached the cap ~ just making it harder for them to do so. If this is a change that is supposed to slow down the rush to 70, then it falls short and impacts everyone else in the process. Anyway, my questions to the devs: <ul><li>Will a guild level of 40 (for example) still be able to hand in T7 status items and get rewards? </li></ul>and:<ul><li>As only the right level guild will be able to hand in status items, there's now no need to stagger the status reward across tiers. Will you be changing the status reward for all status items so that they all give equal amounts?</li></ul>PS. I love possumu's idea above, of server events unlocking guild levels for everyone. That would stop the insta-levelling of high guilds and create some competitive and community spirit across all playstyles. You should scrap these meaningless changes and go for this!

kelesia

08-31-2007, 08:08 AM

I hate this change. I think a better idea would be for a person to get status if they turn in the tier appropriate items. Tie it to the toon not the guild lvl.Just my two cents.

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 08:11 AM

<cite>Inzilbeth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate this change. I think a better idea would be for a person to get status if they turn in the tier appropriate items. Tie it to the toon not the guild lvl.Just my two cents.</blockquote>Tieing this to Guild Level is the big mistake. Basically the Dev's were only thinking of level 60 guilds with level 70 members, and completely forgot to think about lower level guilds and toons.Typical

Naglfar

08-31-2007, 08:56 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great change, with a no-trade on these items it would be perfect. And I hope the leveling will be very long.I can't believe so much people are complaining about each tiny difficulty added to the game.Do you remember the leveling on original release ? It was a real accomplishment, with loss of guild xp when members leaved the guild. Now it's really easy to level, just go out do some writs and raids, and ding. What a big deal if it takes several month instead of 1 day ?</blockquote>YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINTPeople will be treated differently depending on their guild's level.This is not about the levelling speed of guilds, this is about that level 20 player not being able to contribute to their level 60 guild via status items, while a level 20 player in a level 10 guild can.It's about the numbers that appear next to your name when you press 'U'.That is what it is about for the majority of people who are not in level 60 guilds.That said, no-trade is a viable alternative option to these changes.Edit:Just checked your guild. See that level 22 applicant in your guild? They can never contribute using status items and receive any guild recognition for it, because they are 38 levels below your guild level (60).Meanwhile a level 22 member of my guild can happily turn in status items they loot for recognition in guild (we are guild level 23).See the difference? Is this really fair to the individual to punish them for choosing a higher guild?If the majority of you think that, I will happily welcome any low level players who you don't care about representing.</blockquote><ul><li>A low level character can contribute to lvl a guild with writs, HQ & kills of ennemies on pvp server. And it's much more effective to do wrist than sell status item, these items are a low % of the status gained.</li><li>Investment in a guild isn't depending only on status gained. If a lvl 60 guild is recruiting low level player I hope it's not only to level faster.</li><li>Just a non-trade tag on item status won't prevent guilds to farm them and sell them on the expansion release. The first goal of this change is to prevent instant leveling.</li></ul>

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 09:02 AM

FireDragon

08-31-2007, 09:29 AM

This is a horrible idea.. I love collecting status items.. its one of my only ways to contribute to my guilds as an altaholic beside doing HQ's. I'm not a big fan of writs other than doing the occasional tradeskill writ. Since i dont like Neriak or Kelethin, writs tend to be very outof the way and a huge timesink, time which i no longer have as i'm starting a new job soon, and require groups like varsoons for example.. and some of them are in zones i can no longer go to since you refuse to fix the ran out of memory bug:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364955" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=364955</a>yes that one. Its been there months. There are zones i dont -dare- to enter now, luckily for me they're pretty out of the way (like the down below and catacombs). So in short.. this change will ruin the game for me even moreso. Status items are one of the few ways i can contribute to my guild. Dont take that away from me. I enjoy doing HQ's when i have the chance, but its also a rare chance to get the groups to do them.

Freliant

08-31-2007, 09:31 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great change, with a no-trade on these items it would be perfect. And I hope the leveling will be very long.I can't believe so much people are complaining about each tiny difficulty added to the game.Do you remember the leveling on original release ? It was a real accomplishment, with loss of guild xp when members leaved the guild. Now it's really easy to level, just go out do some writs and raids, and ding. What a big deal if it takes several month instead of 1 day ?</blockquote>YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINTPeople will be treated differently depending on their guild's level.This is not about the levelling speed of guilds, this is about that level 20 player not being able to contribute to their level 60 guild via status items, while a level 20 player in a level 10 guild can.It's about the numbers that appear next to your name when you press 'U'.That is what it is about for the majority of people who are not in level 60 guilds.That said, no-trade is a viable alternative option to these changes.Edit:Just checked your guild. See that level 22 applicant in your guild? They can never contribute using status items and receive any guild recognition for it, because they are 38 levels below your guild level (60).Meanwhile a level 22 member of my guild can happily turn in status items they loot for recognition in guild (we are guild level 23).See the difference? Is this really fair to the individual to punish them for choosing a higher guild?If the majority of you think that, I will happily welcome any low level players who you don't care about representing.</blockquote><ul><li>A low level character can contribute to lvl a guild with writs, HQ & kills of ennemies on pvp server. And it's much more effective to do wrist than sell status item, these items are a low % of the status gained.</li><li>Investment in a guild isn't depending only on status gained. If a lvl 60 guild is recruiting low level player I hope it's not only to level faster.</li><li>Just a non-trade tag on item status won't prevent guilds to farm them and sell them on the expansion release. The first goal of this change is to prevent instant leveling.</li></ul></blockquote>Whoosh! Obviously straight over your head.Your missing the point that two characters of the same low level will be treated differently according to their guild level, your missing the point that nobody care about the actual amount of status the GUILD earns, it's the perception that the lil'guy in the guild is contributing (his guild status total that you see when you press 'U'<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> that is being lost. </blockquote>Seems you are the one missing the point.1) Status items will still give PERSONAL status, reguarless of what level the guild is2) Writs, HQ, Raid Mobs, Raid Writs all give GUILD status and personal status when completed... yes, the number next to the person when you open up the guild box.So your comment "nobody care about the actual amount of status the Guild earns" would then apply according to your logic, since you will see that he in fact WILL be a contributing member.

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 09:32 AM

So...three days, and twenty pages of responses...can we get some additional DEV interaction on this thread?

Freliant

08-31-2007, 09:33 AM

<cite>Kazaris wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a horrible idea.. I love collecting status items.. its one of my only ways to contribute to my guilds as an altaholic beside doing HQ's. I'm not a big fan of writs other than doing the occasional tradeskill writ. Since i dont like Neriak or Kelethin, writs tend to be very outof the way and a huge timesink, time which i no longer have as i'm starting a new job soon, and require groups like varsoons for example.. and some of them are in zones i can no longer go to since you refuse to fix the ran out of memory bug:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364955" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=364955</a>yes that one. Its been there months. There are zones i dont -dare- to enter now, luckily for me they're pretty out of the way (like the down below and catacombs). So in short.. this change will ruin the game for me even moreso. Status items are one of the few ways i can contribute to my guild. Dont take that away from me. I enjoy doing HQ's when i have the chance, but its also a rare chance to get the groups to do them.</blockquote>Then sell on the broker your low level status items and buy the ones that are more appropriete to your level. Problem solved.

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 09:36 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kazaris wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a horrible idea.. I love collecting status items.. its one of my only ways to contribute to my guilds as an altaholic beside doing HQ's. I'm not a big fan of writs other than doing the occasional tradeskill writ. Since i dont like Neriak or Kelethin, writs tend to be very outof the way and a huge timesink, time which i no longer have as i'm starting a new job soon, and require groups like varsoons for example.. and some of them are in zones i can no longer go to since you refuse to fix the ran out of memory bug:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364955" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=364955</a>yes that one. Its been there months. There are zones i dont -dare- to enter now, luckily for me they're pretty out of the way (like the down below and catacombs). So in short.. this change will ruin the game for me even moreso. Status items are one of the few ways i can contribute to my guild. Dont take that away from me. I enjoy doing HQ's when i have the chance, but its also a rare chance to get the groups to do them.</blockquote>Then sell on the broker your low level status items and buy the ones that are more appropriete to your level. Problem solved.</blockquote>Yes cos buying higher levels items that are mostly sold by farmers is the solution! ::rolleyes::

Freliant

08-31-2007, 09:36 AM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So...three days, and twenty pages of responses...can we get some additional DEV interaction on this thread? </blockquote>Been about 36 hours since this thread got started, not 3 days. And there is a dev response that says, in not so many words: This is an intended change, and don't flame about it.

Freliant

08-31-2007, 09:38 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kazaris wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a horrible idea.. I love collecting status items.. its one of my only ways to contribute to my guilds as an altaholic beside doing HQ's. I'm not a big fan of writs other than doing the occasional tradeskill writ. Since i dont like Neriak or Kelethin, writs tend to be very outof the way and a huge timesink, time which i no longer have as i'm starting a new job soon, and require groups like varsoons for example.. and some of them are in zones i can no longer go to since you refuse to fix the ran out of memory bug:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364955" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=364955</a>yes that one. Its been there months. There are zones i dont -dare- to enter now, luckily for me they're pretty out of the way (like the down below and catacombs). So in short.. this change will ruin the game for me even moreso. Status items are one of the few ways i can contribute to my guild. Dont take that away from me. I enjoy doing HQ's when i have the chance, but its also a rare chance to get the groups to do them.</blockquote>Then sell on the broker your low level status items and buy the ones that are more appropriete to your level. Problem solved.</blockquote>Yes cos buying higher levels items that are mostly sold by farmers is the solution! ::rolleyes::</blockquote>Well then, just continue PLAYING the game till you are level appropriete. And if you already are level appropriete, good for you, this change shouldn't be a problem.

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 09:47 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kazaris wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a horrible idea.. I love collecting status items.. its one of my only ways to contribute to my guilds as an altaholic beside doing HQ's. I'm not a big fan of writs other than doing the occasional tradeskill writ. Since i dont like Neriak or Kelethin, writs tend to be very outof the way and a huge timesink, time which i no longer have as i'm starting a new job soon, and require groups like varsoons for example.. and some of them are in zones i can no longer go to since you refuse to fix the ran out of memory bug:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364955" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=364955</a>yes that one. Its been there months. There are zones i dont -dare- to enter now, luckily for me they're pretty out of the way (like the down below and catacombs). So in short.. this change will ruin the game for me even moreso. Status items are one of the few ways i can contribute to my guild. Dont take that away from me. I enjoy doing HQ's when i have the chance, but its also a rare chance to get the groups to do them.</blockquote>Then sell on the broker your low level status items and buy the ones that are more appropriete to your level. Problem solved.</blockquote>Yes cos buying higher levels items that are mostly sold by farmers is the solution! ::rolleyes::</blockquote>Well then, just continue PLAYING the game till you are level appropriete. And if you already are level appropriete, good for you, this change shouldn't be a problem.</blockquote>Good for them, but players who are not 'level appropriate' will lose out, through no fault of their own, because they chose to join a high level guild... and note, these are low level/new players being hurt.

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 10:04 AM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>I talked it over with my guild. We remember that it took like 30k guild status to make 1% at guild level 59. So that means it took 3 million to go from guild level 59 to 60. Do you think it took more or less then 3 million? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I was just curious. It seemed like I remembered our guild not having an ungodly amount of status when we dinged 60. For poops and smiles I used the guild search function on EQ2players to look at level 59 guilds and their accumulated status.Alte Garde 6 millionAussie Battlers 7.2 millionBloodthorn 7.7 millionCannon Fodder 4.0 millionDark Hand 7.7 millionDark Legion 2.5 millionEevo 7.0 millionEpic 6.9 millionEquillibrium 6.1 millionI figured that was a random enough sample.I also looked at a pretty stable guild on my server that dinged 60 just last month and they had currently accumulated 7.5 million status.Given these numbers I would say it is unlikely it will take 3 million status to get from 60-61. I really cant offer a guess myself, but just looking at these numbers I don't see 3 million fitting into any kind of progression.</blockquote>Thats does not help. Personal status is used when buying items. When a guild member leaves and returns the guild status of that person resets. Plus one little caveat. Guild raids award guild status directly to the guild level after you have completed one the first time. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Case in point is my former Guild <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/guilds/guild_profile.vm?guildId=798117" target="_blank">The Forsaken</a>. Do you think it took only 700k to make guild level 60? It took Guild Writ Raid after Guild Writ Raid. Once every member completed the Guild Writ Raid quest. No guild member received status for completing them a second time. Yet, every Raid the Guild experience bar would would increase 10%+ depending on the level of those attending the Guild Writ Raid. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 10:07 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So...three days, and twenty pages of responses...can we get some additional DEV interaction on this thread? </blockquote>Been about 36 hours since this thread got started, not 3 days. And there is a dev response that says, in not so many words: This is an intended change, and don't flame about it.</blockquote>Sigh. 8/29/07 roughly 5pm was the original post. Today is 8/31/07 - so technically the morning of the third day. How many days SHOULD it take? Is 36hours enough for someone to say "Geez - this change might upset a bunch of folks we should have a dialogue on this." ? We KNOW its an intended change, what I am asking for is an EXPLANATION not a re-utterance of what we already know. And further, I was asking for more interaction in the hopes that a dialogue, not just one post, might lead to a better soloution. Sorry, I'll try and be more clear next time. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 10:19 AM

A dialogue would be good, if only so we know why they intend to make this change.However, this is very unlikely.How can we TEST this issue, if we don't know what they hope to ACHIEVE with this change....

Duluvian

08-31-2007, 10:22 AM

This is rubbish. I try to have my guildies strive for guild status achievements and sometimes run events based upon status point contribution. If my lower level guildies cannot contribute to the guild then this puts them in a hole. Won't this promote lots of new lower level guilds popping up to utilize their sp to level a guild?

Freliant

08-31-2007, 10:23 AM

Freliant

08-31-2007, 10:24 AM

<cite>Drakhen@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is rubbish. I try to have my guildies strive for guild status achievements and sometimes run events based upon status point contribution. If my lower level guildies cannot contribute to the guild then this puts them in a hole. Won't this promote lots of new lower level guilds popping up to utilize their sp to level a guild?</blockquote>They can still contribute, just not through status items below the level of the guild. Nothing prevents them from doing writs and HQs

Cuz

08-31-2007, 10:31 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>A dialogue would be good, if only so we know why they intend to make this change.However, this is very unlikely.How can we TEST this issue, if we don't know what they hope to ACHIEVE with this change....</blockquote>Oh that's easy, they want to prevent the powerful guilds from just buying their way to guild level 80. So to make sure that doesn't happen they punish the rest of us for the few of them. Simplest way to prevent the power levelers is to put a cap on how much you can sell for guild status per <whatever> amount of time.

Rast

08-31-2007, 10:36 AM

I've said it before, I'll say it again.This will NOT impact lvl 60 guilds that much, it won't slow them down, it won't phase them. They will still be there, maybe a couple weeks later, but it won't change anything about them racing to the top without hardly an effort.Why, because it is easier for these guilds to get status in conventional ways (ie they can more easily field writ groups and effectively lock down areas, they can more easily get into raids that provide status, etc).The ones that will be hurt by this are those who are lower, who can't do the raids yet, who still have to deal with the fact that until they are 65, every x5 writs pretty much requires a group to complete (ie, they are all in dungeons) so for 5 levels every tier, they basically have NO way to contribute (without resorting to buying status) on their own.I know for myself, I can easily pick up 10k status a week right now without even doing writs, if I decide to get serious, I can probably put on about 50-75k a week by doing writs/raids and I'm just one person in the guild I'm in who could do that.Anyone who thinks this will impact people like me (who doesn't need the personal status as I'm already setting at over 3mil in personal unused status, with house in SQ, A 48% horse, etc), then people are sadly mistaken. Yah, I actually have to do an extra set of writs, like that is a big deal. Hell, I still have every HQ but one over 40 that I've not done, if push comes to shove (I hate HQs, boring things they are and I typically only do them if the reward is something I want to use)This change will NOT impact those it is trying to impact and will only hurt the younger players.Poor decision, IMNSHO

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 10:39 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drakhen@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is rubbish. I try to have my guildies strive for guild status achievements and sometimes run events based upon status point contribution. If my lower level guildies cannot contribute to the guild then this puts them in a hole. Won't this promote lots of new lower level guilds popping up to utilize their sp to level a guild?</blockquote>They can still contribute, just not through status items below the level of the guild. Nothing prevents them from doing writs and HQs</blockquote>In the time any player can finish a writ or a HQ, the amount of status items found exceeds that of the tasks.

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 10:42 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So...three days, and twenty pages of responses...can we get some additional DEV interaction on this thread? </blockquote>Been about 36 hours since this thread got started, not 3 days. And there is a dev response that says, in not so many words: This is an intended change, and don't flame about it.</blockquote>Sigh. 8/29/07 roughly 5pm was the original post. Today is 8/31/07 - so technically the morning of the third day. How many days SHOULD it take? Is 36hours enough for someone to say "Geez - this change might upset a bunch of folks we should have a dialogue on this." ? We KNOW its an intended change, what I am asking for is an EXPLANATION not a re-utterance of what we already know. And further, I was asking for more interaction in the hopes that a dialogue, not just one post, might lead to a better soloution. Sorry, I'll try and be more clear next time. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I have been reading the forums long enough to know that any request for an explanation is just a method for those that don't want to change to attempt to twist the words of the devs and give them a chance to say: if that was your goal, this would be a better solution.</blockquote>You should also have been reading long enough to know not to make broad all-encompasing generalizations as well. Im not looking to twist anything, I've also stated, as have many others on this thread, that Im not happy with the change, so no big revelation there. I also said Id like to discuss a "better solution" - so where exactly are you unclear? No flame here, Im just a bit confused. I mean, are you actually advocating that we SHOULDNT ask to talk about changes some of us dont like? That no matter what the DEVs do, the community shouldnt provide feedback?Really?? Back on topic... I think there are alternate solutions that can be dicussed in a constructive manner. There are several workable ideas in the thread. It would be nice if a DEV came on and at least said "we'll discuss it internally and get back to you." and then made a decision. Even if that decision is to keep it status quo as it is on Test, a little further acknowledgement and discussion as to the motivations behind the change would be nice. We are theorizing its to reduce level speed, and status item hoarding... but - that might not be all of it. Is that really so unreasonable?

SinIsLaw

08-31-2007, 10:47 AM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So...three days, and twenty pages of responses...can we get some additional DEV interaction on this thread? </blockquote>Been about 36 hours since this thread got started, not 3 days. And there is a dev response that says, in not so many words: This is an intended change, and don't flame about it.</blockquote>Sigh. 8/29/07 roughly 5pm was the original post. Today is 8/31/07 - so technically the morning of the third day. How many days SHOULD it take? Is 36hours enough for someone to say "Geez - this change might upset a bunch of folks we should have a dialogue on this." ? We KNOW its an intended change, what I am asking for is an EXPLANATION not a re-utterance of what we already know. And further, I was asking for more interaction in the hopes that a dialogue, not just one post, might lead to a better soloution. Sorry, I'll try and be more clear next time. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yawn! Another genious post ... you are trying to get a response from a dev, based on ur bickering? org post was done: 08/29/2007 17:31:52, Gnobrin posted 08/30/2007 19:04:40! That is not even 26h ... way to go and make it 3days /sightI welcome this change, it clearly blocks off the mass farming of gray mobs by high lvl toons to lvl up their guild! And that is what it all boils too really! A low lvl toon in high lvl guild, won't be able to make a significant impact to the Guild Xp, just by collecting and selling low tier items, really common be serious, it's not that each mob drops a status item ... I would go that far and say if you just farm status item, you'd outlvl each tier before you got 5 stacks ... A lvl 70 however, could go to Caltoris or LS and mass burn through the status items and get tons of em in no time! Much faster then even con mobs! GSItems were supposed to be a little helper to lvling your guild, and not a main source !!!Thumbs up SoE! Great change ...

namax

08-31-2007, 10:47 AM

I'm definitely against this potential change, for many of the reasons that have been mentioned many times above. We're a family guild with players of all levels. We only recently hit level 60. Since then, players at all levels have been saving their status items. To diminish their worth after the fact is wrong.

kbear

08-31-2007, 10:55 AM

So this will mean that a level 60 guild that has members in the lower levels will not be able to gain guild status. Unless they are willing to pay for the t7 status items which I know I wouldn't. This is not the solution and it is not like they give a whole lot of status. Most guilds have a varying level of player and will not be able to contribute anything to their guild if this goes live. These nerfs are getting stupid.....look at LU13 and what it did to everyone, we had to relearn how to play a character that we had been playing for almost a year because of the almighty NERF BAT. GET A CLUE AND STOP WITH THE NERFS!!!!!!!!!

Vonotar

08-31-2007, 10:55 AM

<cite>Durancer@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I welcome this change, it clearly blocks off the mass farming of gray mobs by high lvl toons to lvl up their guild! And that is what it all boils too really! </blockquote>No... it only prevents farming by high level guilds.A high level player in a low level guild can still farm grey mobs to their hearts content.Anyhow, good luck all, this is my last post on the subject. I have to bow out of these things before my blood pressure gets too high (Grim/Gnob know what i'm like).Will be checking the broker for a slush of cheap status items when this goes live.

SinIsLaw

08-31-2007, 11:03 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Durancer@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I welcome this change, it clearly blocks off the mass farming of gray mobs by high lvl toons to lvl up their guild! And that is what it all boils too really! </blockquote>No... it only prevents farming by high level guilds.A high level player in a low level guild can still farm grey mobs to their hearts content.Anyhow, good luck all, this is my last post on the subject. I have to bow out of these things before my blood pressure gets too high (Grim/Gnob know what i'm like).Will be checking the broker for a slush of cheap status items when this goes live.</blockquote>Not a big deal either ... Let them lvl up faster ... what does it matter to you, you have reached your high lvl guild goal! I have lvl a guild to lvl 30 and i believe also 40 before GS items were even in game, and it didn't bother me then when peeps used em to catch up faster to the max lvl ... You will still be able now to "buy" urself the guild lvl 70 with the current gsp items in game (that is if u did farm tons), there are only little T8 items around right now, so finally we won't see guilds at lvl 80 within a day or two ...

Freliant

08-31-2007, 11:07 AM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drakhen@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is rubbish. I try to have my guildies strive for guild status achievements and sometimes run events based upon status point contribution. If my lower level guildies cannot contribute to the guild then this puts them in a hole. Won't this promote lots of new lower level guilds popping up to utilize their sp to level a guild?</blockquote>They can still contribute, just not through status items below the level of the guild. Nothing prevents them from doing writs and HQs</blockquote>In the time any player can finish a writ or a HQ, the amount of status items found exceeds that of the tasks.</blockquote>This is a very misleading lie. I can crank out a crafting writ every 4 minutes that gives me 8828 personal status (883 guild status). In order for me to get even close to that amount in status items I would literally have to be hours fighting my level mobs.

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 11:14 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drakhen@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is rubbish. I try to have my guildies strive for guild status achievements and sometimes run events based upon status point contribution. If my lower level guildies cannot contribute to the guild then this puts them in a hole. Won't this promote lots of new lower level guilds popping up to utilize their sp to level a guild?</blockquote>They can still contribute, just not through status items below the level of the guild. Nothing prevents them from doing writs and HQs</blockquote>In the time any player can finish a writ or a HQ, the amount of status items found exceeds that of the tasks.</blockquote>This is a very misleading lie. I can crank out a crafting writ every 4 minutes that gives me 8828 personal status (883 guild status). In order for me to get even close to that amount in status items I would literally have to be hours fighting my level mobs.</blockquote>They would be what level, 50+ (Who is misleading whom?)! I am talking about levels 10 though 40 whom are hurt most by this change. At least the heroics have been removed from Antonica. Yet that means more status item drops form easier NPC kills. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

beladi

08-31-2007, 11:14 AM

I don't understand why they don't have the items a toon turns in based on the toon's level. My lvl 70 coercer should not be able to turn in T1 status items and receive anything for them. Perhaps restrict her to only T5 and up items?However, RP wise, my lvl 13 bruiser should be able to turn in items appropriate to her level to help her guild. I know it wouldn't be perfect, in that high level guilds may just make low level toons to turn stuff in, but I really don't think that this idea is going to slow the big guild's growth all that much. They will just buy higher level status items to turn in or go farm writs and HQ's. This will only hurt the smaller guilds and those who are addicted to alts. I know writs will still count, but it made me feel good to have my little toons be able to turn in something to help their guild too.

Sunrayn

08-31-2007, 11:19 AM

<cite>Durancer@Guk wrote:</cite>I welcome this change, it clearly blocks off the mass farming of gray mobs by high lvl toons to lvl up their guild! And that is what it all boils too really! A low lvl toon in high lvl guild, won't be able to make a significant impact to the Guild Xp, just by collecting and selling low tier items, really common be serious, it's not that each mob drops a status item ... I would go that far and say if you just farm status item, you'd outlvl each tier before you got 5 stacks ... A lvl 70 however, could go to Caltoris or LS and mass burn through the status items and get tons of em in no time! Much faster then even con mobs! GSItems were supposed to be a little helper to lvling your guild, and not a main source !!!Thumbs up SoE! Great change ...Think for a minute. It would take *eight* T2 status items to equal *one* T7 status item in terms of *guild status recieved* Not every mob drops one. What person in their right mind would go into a T2 zone and kill grey mobs for *nothing but a lousy status item* that isnt even a guarenteed drop.Sure, at the end of the day, a level 70 would come out with..what...5 stacks of status items..that is 100 items times 10 GSP---1000 guild status. Oh you betcha, I would much rather come out with 100 status items than 13 of the T7 items which, comes out to just over 1000 GSP *and* not even spend an entire day doing it.As for stockpiling status items..Umm..lets see..I would MUCH rather have eight 32 slot boxes filled with T2 items at 10 GSP each than eight 32 slot boxes filled with T7 items which give 80 GSP...Common sense...It's a rare commodity for some folk

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 11:20 AM

<cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they don't have the items a toon turns in based on the toon's level. My lvl 70 coercer should not be able to turn in T1 status items and receive anything for them. Perhaps restrict her to only T5 and up items?However, RP wise, my lvl 13 bruiser should be able to turn in items appropriate to her level to help her guild. I know it wouldn't be perfect, in that high level guilds may just make low level toons to turn stuff in, but I really don't think that this idea is going to slow the big guild's growth all that much. They will just buy higher level status items to turn in or go farm writs and HQ's. This will only hurt the smaller guilds and those who are addicted to alts. I know writs will still count, but it made me feel good to have my little toons be able to turn in something to help their guild too.</blockquote>That is the best idea from this whole thread! Restrict the status items by a character's level not the Guild level. I would agree with that! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Freliant

08-31-2007, 11:21 AM

<cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they don't have the items a toon turns in based on the toon's level. My lvl 70 coercer should not be able to turn in T1 status items and receive anything for them. Perhaps restrict her to only T5 and up items?However, RP wise, my lvl 13 bruiser should be able to turn in items appropriate to her level to help her guild. I know it wouldn't be perfect, in that high level guilds may just make low level toons to turn stuff in, but I really don't think that this idea is going to slow the big guild's growth all that much. They will just buy higher level status items to turn in or go farm writs and HQ's. This will only hurt the smaller guilds and those who are addicted to alts. I know writs will still count, but it made me feel good to have my little toons be able to turn in something to help their guild too.</blockquote>You underestimate how much of an impact these status items have on the level of the guild. It will NOT take 1 week or even 2 weeks for a guild to get to max level. I am willing to bet all my plat on that (and its alot).

kbear

08-31-2007, 11:24 AM

Restricting the player level instead of using guild level for status items makes way more sense. If a lvl 70 cannot use a t2 status item problem solved. But to use the guild level is absolutely absurd.

PublicVoid

08-31-2007, 11:30 AM

No the problem is not solved by locking them to level. How hard is it to put your massive hoard of stored items on an alt? And Awesome change devs. When EoF hit we had level 60 guilds in what, a half hour? This will make that impossible.

cgi-bin

08-31-2007, 11:31 AM

Forgive me if this has been suggested, but perhaps a compromise would be to limit it to the tier of the player or the guild whichever is lower. That way lower level players can still contribute. This would lead to people simply passing down whatever lower tier items they farm to alts, so make the items no-trade?

Rast

08-31-2007, 11:34 AM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they don't have the items a toon turns in based on the toon's level. My lvl 70 coercer should not be able to turn in T1 status items and receive anything for them. Perhaps restrict her to only T5 and up items?However, RP wise, my lvl 13 bruiser should be able to turn in items appropriate to her level to help her guild. I know it wouldn't be perfect, in that high level guilds may just make low level toons to turn stuff in, but I really don't think that this idea is going to slow the big guild's growth all that much. They will just buy higher level status items to turn in or go farm writs and HQ's. This will only hurt the smaller guilds and those who are addicted to alts. I know writs will still count, but it made me feel good to have my little toons be able to turn in something to help their guild too.</blockquote>You underestimate how much of an impact these status items have on the level of the guild. It will NOT take 1 week or even 2 weeks for a guild to get to max level. I am willing to bet all my plat on that (and its alot).</blockquote>I think you overestimate the impact of these statues.This will NOT hurt the level 60 guilds, these statues do NOT provide the bulk of the xp. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I can get more guild xp in ONE night in HoS than I can from 6+ STACKS of t7 statues. They simply do not make up that much, period.At most, this will force a couple of the lvl 60 guilds to throw Courts/HoS into their rotation for a couple weeks to counter the effect of this change and they will NOT be really any slower than they are now since many of these guilds do not run these two zones anyways.This change is hurting the wrong people, it will NOT hurt the lvl 60 guilds with multiple level capped, raiding geared people.

BoriKitty

08-31-2007, 11:38 AM

I don't like the change.. our guild is level 58 and we get new players all teh time... This update is telling them that they cannot contribute via status items until (and IF) they get to level 50.. MOST of us are casual players and have alts or even friends who play on occasion. NOW there is a drawback to actually being successful in guild raids and writs... No new players under 50 can contribute to our guild via status items. Even if it's minimal they are not allowing all the items to work as intented. If it's such a drop in the bucket.. why are they nerfing that as well? That's just sad.

08-31-2007, 11:39 AM

<cite>Durancer@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Durancer@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I welcome this change, it clearly blocks off the mass farming of gray mobs by high lvl toons to lvl up their guild! And that is what it all boils too really! </blockquote>No... it only prevents farming by high level guilds.A high level player in a low level guild can still farm grey mobs to their hearts content.Anyhow, good luck all, this is my last post on the subject. I have to bow out of these things before my blood pressure gets too high (Grim/Gnob know what i'm like).Will be checking the broker for a slush of cheap status items when this goes live.</blockquote>Not a big deal either ... Let them lvl up faster ... what does it matter to you, you have reached your high lvl guild goal! I have lvl a guild to lvl 30 and i believe also 40 before GS items were even in game, and it didn't bother me then when peeps used em to catch up faster to the max lvl ... You will still be able now to "buy" urself the guild lvl 70 with the current gsp items in game (that is if u did farm tons), there are only little T8 items around right now, so finally we won't see guilds at lvl 80 within a day or two ... </blockquote>Actualy the person your replying to has a level 23 guild (stated a couple of times in the thread) and is worried that level 10-15 members won't get status for status iteams. You, have a level 60 guild (i checked), funny how you try to label us as level 60....

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 11:46 AM

<cite>PublicVoid wrote:</cite><blockquote>No the problem is not solved by locking them to level.How hard is it to put your massive hoard of stored items on an alt?And Awesome change devs. When EoF hit we had level 60 guilds in what, a half hour? This will make that impossible. </blockquote>So if status items requirements were lvl 10-19 for T2, lvl 20-29 for T3, ect. That would mean every maxed out Level 70 character hoarding status items would need a level 60-69 alt to turn in T7 status items.

Ookami-san

08-31-2007, 11:47 AM

I think this is the single most idiotic change I've ever seen in this game. You're basically giving the finger to any and all new players that come in and get recruited by a new guild, as well as any guild members who are raising alts.I personally think the person who thought of this should be canned. Tossed out. If that's the best idea you can come up with, you need to can the whole dev team and start from scratch. There are SOOOO many better ways this could be addressed. Need ideas? OBVIOUSLY you do... so here's one... took about 10 seconds to think of too...1) Each teir of status items can only be handed in by appropriate leveled toons2) Only the first 10 or 20 status items turned in per day add guild status, the others just give personal statusThere... problem solved. 1) All members of a guild can contribute2) Players can't dump enormous amounts of status into a guild at one time - at most, 10 or 20 per day3) It won't eliminate farming, but it will make it more inconvenient to move them to another toon, plus the toon can only hand in 10 per dayPS - And yes, I am available for a managerial position on your dev team =P

BoriKitty

08-31-2007, 11:49 AM

No you are missing the point.. the level of the adventurer is not the problem.. it's the level of the guild..So any lowbie rightfully contributing in their level will not contribute at ALL to the guild.. even in a small way because there is a penalty for being a member of a higher level guild. THAT is the problem.

PublicVoid

08-31-2007, 11:51 AM

And it's hard to have a level 60-69 alt? or an associate in guild that has one? Please I'd feel bad for lower level toons in a higher level guild if this meant all their options were gone. But it doesn't, just the easy, no effort, you were gonna kill that mob anyhow option is gone. Besides, why would the fighters guild be impressed that you killed some level 55 mob when your guild is level 60. Thats supposed to mean you are at the top end. Sure it might be impressive if you were some level 30 guild.

deKoven

08-31-2007, 11:54 AM

Hmmm, 22 pages now; two posts from someone from "Admin", not, presumably, from the dev team. There has not been a single post from an actual "dev team" member. This is highly significant folks; they're telling us "You don't count at all." Had I read through each and every post I'd still be reading. My guess is that 99.9% of the posters are saying "This is a BAD idea!" And, of course, I'm adding my voice to the clamor. I feel it's really throwing the baby out with the bath water.The "Admin" post (both from the same person, one just clarifying the other) pointed out that this is just a test server issue and not to panic. Sorry, I'm not buying that argument but I do feel that the player community has made its point. I disremember seeing one argument against; namely, the person of higher lvl who joins a guild and thereby has NO guild status at all. This used to be a way to sort of jumpstart one's condition with the new guild. I frankly don't see that as being wrong or taking advantage of other players. If "I" had played from day one in this new guild I'd have lots of status; given that I just joined, I wanna sort of lvl up to be one with my new buds.And finally, if this actually does make to the real servers, at least give players a grace period in which to turn loose of these items without penalty. They were legitimately acquired, whatever the method. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

ottugi

08-31-2007, 12:24 PM

On test note: e.g. A level 50 guild will be able to gain advancement from level 51 items and higher, which drop from T6 creatures and above.I don't know if this means items for lvl50 - lvl70 can give you guild status.If so this isn't going to stop those that buy massive status items to level their guild to 50 or 60 in a few days.Since low tier items give you a lot less point, it would make sense if they allow status items BELOW 50to be applied but block ones higher than 50 if your guild is level 50.I remember one of devs said earlier that something will be in place to block this kind of buying to level guilds,but I was hoping that it was going to be a limit on how many status items you can turn infor a day or something which would block massive amount of status items to be usedbut still allow lower tier items to be usable.

Steeleratt

08-31-2007, 12:35 PM

My two cents, One - Sony appears to be responding to an issue they should have been aware of in the first place - Their players for the most part have brains. And they used their brains to plan ahead for the cap raise. So instead of previously turning the items into no-trade or controlling drops on gray mobs they have to panic and bring in the nerf bat. Now this is going to punish the players that thought ahead and make it difficult for lower level chars to help their guild if its higher level. And the solution is to do writs and named kills? Well can we say camp city for writ mobs? And all these guilds that are capped and will no longer receive status for kills they did while capped so they are worthless. So instead they will sell these now worthless items to lower level guilds and those guilds will skyrocket to higher levels. And when the level of the guild exceeds the player levels they are stuck till they level up to the guild level. And what about the amount of status earned by these lower level item? T1 status items give how much status? 1 point. I mean really, to a level 60 guild how much guild level do you receive for this stuff?Two - And as for the guild leveling in general what does it matter if you cap fast or slow? What benefits do you get from guild level? A few status vendor items. Character titles. Maybe a new mount type. Nothing that is game altering or beneficial to the actual game play. At the most its bragging rights. So what does it really matter if they nerf it or not. Well to lowbie chars in high level guilds it could mean a lot if the guild bases loot rights by status contribution. But what else is affected by this nerf? Does the guild get better housing at higher level? More bank slots? How about vendor prices? Any reduction in commission? Higher sale value of fender fodder? Not that I have seen mentioned. So what does it matter. So basically this nerf is both meaningless and another thumbing of the nose at SOE's players because SOE didn't think ahead. It means that all the time and coin put into collecting these items for the cap raise was wasted. So the players either sell the stuff to low level guilds (in an attempt to recoup their losses in coin) or throw it away for a total loss. If SOE had planned ahead there would have been several possible solutions and fewer people would be upset about this. They didn't and now here we are. On a personal note I think this nerf sucks because it screws over the planners in the game. Way to go SOE! You just said, 'We screwed up and we are going to punish our players for it.' It's not an exploit to do what these people have been doing all along, selling status items. And it's pointless. So what if a guild races to the new cap, are they going to receive anything for it? Not that I can see, so why does it matter? Let it go SOE. Fix the drops for the next cap change but do it after these people get there use out of their planning and effort, not before. You screwed up and it can't be fixed now without doing damage to your player base, and we are your reason you have a job.I'm done. Good Hunting folks.

Freliant

08-31-2007, 12:53 PM

As it stands now, being part of a level 60 guild means SQUAT because of those guilds that do it using massive amounts of status items. It became trivial. In RoK, it will mean something.. not that the guild handed in massive amounts of status loot, but that they actually quested, did writs, killed mobs, did raid content and so on.The change will not adversly affect the lower level members because its not preventing them from doing these exact same things. Its only preventing them from handing in the lower tier items right away. To get a benefit from these, they will not have to broker them.

Sapphirius

08-31-2007, 01:03 PM

Jalathan, hun, just spare yourself the headache. I do have to laugh an the fellow who's still dodged my question after claiming that farmers don't farm T7 zones. Apparently, Barren Sky must not be a T7 zone. <grins wickedly> So, following those lines of logic, if he was wrong about that, he can be wrong about a number of other things as well... And given the inflammatory nature of his posts, they just simply aren't worth reading or responding to.<cite> </cite><cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they don't have the items a toon turns in based on the toon's level. My lvl 70 coercer should not be able to turn in T1 status items and receive anything for them. Perhaps restrict her to only T5 and up items?However, RP wise, my lvl 13 bruiser should be able to turn in items appropriate to her level to help her guild. I know it wouldn't be perfect, in that high level guilds may just make low level toons to turn stuff in, but I really don't think that this idea is going to slow the big guild's growth all that much. They will just buy higher level status items to turn in or go farm writs and HQ's. This will only hurt the smaller guilds and those who are addicted to alts. I know writs will still count, but it made me feel good to have my little toons be able to turn in something to help their guild too.</blockquote>Beladi, there have been several suggestions made that would all be better solutions than the one currently in place on Test.<ul><li>One was to make the items "no-trade" in response to this possibly also being about plat farmers who make the bulk of their money off selling status items.</li><li>Another was to make the items immediately consumed upon looting, just like language items.</li><li>And a third was to tie the items to character level and not guild level.</li><li>Finally, remove status items completely.</li></ul>All four ideas have been shot down by people who just don't seem to grasp the concept of wanting to help low-level players in a high level guild feel worthwhile. They're typical response is, "They can do writs and HQs" without any regards as to how much time that person may have available to play, how many people they may require to help with those writs or heritage quests, what their level is and whether or not they've done every HQ they can do, whether or not they are even a soloable class, etc. (Yes, there are some classes that struggle with soloing but excel in groups. Don't believe? Then you haven't been playing this game long enough.)Someone even suggested selling the status items you find and buying level appropriate ones, which is one of the more ignorant comments made in this entire thread. Sure... Let a level 34 warlock sell her T4 status items, which will be practically worthless to most guilds along with the flood of other T4 items for just coppers above their vender worth so she can pay 4 to 8 gold per T8 status item. She'd have to sell about 32 T4 items to buy just 1 T8 item, and that's if the T4 item even sells amongst the flood of other low-level toons in high-level guilds who will be dumping their status items on the broker as well. It's also if the price of T7 and T8 items don't get jacked up any higher than they are already.... and we just know the plat farmers are going to raise the prices on them because the demand for them will be higher.It has been pointed out multiple times that this is not going to stop power-leveling guilds and raiding guilds. It has been pointed out multiple times that this is not going to hurt high-level players. It has been pointed out multiple times that this is not even going to slow down guild leveling for new guilds either. It's even been pointed out that multiple times that they do not make that big of an impact on guild level, but what they do is help players with limited time or resources feel like they are contributing something to their guild, and this change is going to take that away from them.This system on Test also creates an imbalance in that the guild's higher levels will have one more resource of contribution at their disposal, while their lower levels (who can't just walk up to a 70+ mob and kill it) will have one less resource of contribution.

Vatec

08-31-2007, 01:11 PM

<cite>KKLSTARR wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KKLSTARR wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is my .02... The "majority" of you crying about this are only crying because you wanted to be max guild level in a short time. You didnt want to work towards it , you wanted to buy it. Now that you found out you will have to work towards it like other guilds who do it the old fashion way , you are crying. And yes , some are going to argue its the principle of the matter. SoE should have told us.... [I cannot control my vocabulary] ?!?! were they suppose to post something like 6 months ago and say . " We are going to change the status items , but we arent going to do it now. We are going to put it on test in like 6 months and leave it on test for another month. " Get real. They HAVE told us. Its on test .... what more do you people want.I also would like to add , most of the people on here crying about this are going to also be the same ones crying in 2 months after RoK that they are done with everything and [I cannot control my vocabulary] SoE for not releasing something else for them to do. Im not one of these people who say take your time in a game as to the point that you are always so far behind but jesus .... the devs only have so much time to develop new areas / content. Why dont you play the game the way you KNOW it was intended to be played. This way the players win and the devs dont have to hear crying all the time. There are only a hand full of devs to develop yet many thousands of players out there trying to find shortcuts. Many of yall will flame me and say im a noob and everything else ... so thanks in advance.</blockquote>And in what way is stockpiling these items any less "work" than doing writs or any of the other ways we give our guilds status? The various players still had to harvest raws or farm loot to get the cash to buy the status items.And if SOE is trying to prevent people stockpiling these items, making them no-trade (but still usable no matter what the guild's level) harms far fewer people than the current proposed change.Basically, this hurts small guilds that have a small number of accounts but several alts per account. I.E., the typical small guild composed of a few RL friends. Yes, it accomplishes the primary purpose of preventing big guilds from stockpiling items, but SOE should have thought of that six months ago, not six weeks before RoK goes live.</blockquote>LOL - how does this even hurt smaller guilds ??? You have to be talking about a small guild lvl 60 then cause this in noway affects small guilds say like lvl 20. And if you are talking about a small lvl 60 guild , then im sorry but you should not expect to lvl at the same rate as a lvl 60 guild with 100 members. And if you do , you are being unrealistic. As a small lvl 60 guild , guess what. GO DO WRITS and the new HQS ( and even old ones cause I doubt yall have done em all ). Then turn in your T7 status items. Cause i doubt there are many lvl 60 guilds that are all in T4. I dont even know of any of those on a pvp server where the players lock. ( Without lvl 70 mains though ). So where was I .... Thats right - if you are a small lvl 60 guild then it is pretty easy to assume yall are all T6+. In that case , all the status items you will loot will help ya lvl the guild (the T7+ ones that is ). </blockquote>Think it through....This will hurt a level 31 guild that consists of 6 level 50 characters and their 12-24 level 10-19 alts.Will it hurt them a lot? No. Should they be affected at all by the fallout from a bad decision that is the end result of SOE's lack of foresight when they implemented the system in the first place? Also no.If SOE didn't want high-level guilds buying these things up and hoarding them for quick leveling, they should have made them no-trade. But =this= solution adversely affects players who have absolutely nothing to do with the purported "abuse" that everyone thinks SOE is trying to address. (And note, they still haven't said =why= they're making this change. They could just as easily think they're addressing plat farming in some way. Devs don't always really understand how their games work, in my experience....)In any case, there's no reason a small level 31 guild should pay any price at all for something that is basically SOE's fault in the first place....

ZeyGnome

08-31-2007, 01:12 PM

Worth stating again:Guild Level Lock status items for guilds 60+, leave the below 60 the way it is now. So the items below 60 would read 'Gets guild status for Guilds under level 60' and the new status items (if there are any) will be tier specific. Solves the stocking up problem without penalizing everyone in the game.

einar4

08-31-2007, 01:13 PM

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remember that constructive input shall be taken further then flaming and inappropriate langauge. The test server is indeed here for you to test within and give feedback due to changes. If this thread continues to spiral out of control, it may be locked and/or removed.Thank you for assisting us in making the best game possible!~Gnobrin!</blockquote> Thank you for clarifying the rationale behind the change to gameplay.

Dasein

08-31-2007, 01:19 PM

I am curious how much guild status actually comes from the T1, T2 and T3 status items, and how much of that status comes from players of the appropriate level range and not higher level players who got the drops off grey mobs or bought the items on the brokers. It seems to me that many people are making wild assumptions about the importance of these lower level items, but I'd be more inclined to think that lower level players simply dump them on NPC vendors or on the broker, opting for the cash over the status.Also, let's not forget that these items will still be worth personal status.

Dasein

08-31-2007, 01:24 PM

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KKLSTARR wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KKLSTARR wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is my .02... The "majority" of you crying about this are only crying because you wanted to be max guild level in a short time. You didnt want to work towards it , you wanted to buy it. Now that you found out you will have to work towards it like other guilds who do it the old fashion way , you are crying. And yes , some are going to argue its the principle of the matter. SoE should have told us.... [I cannot control my vocabulary] ?!?! were they suppose to post something like 6 months ago and say . " We are going to change the status items , but we arent going to do it now. We are going to put it on test in like 6 months and leave it on test for another month. " Get real. They HAVE told us. Its on test .... what more do you people want.I also would like to add , most of the people on here crying about this are going to also be the same ones crying in 2 months after RoK that they are done with everything and [I cannot control my vocabulary] SoE for not releasing something else for them to do. Im not one of these people who say take your time in a game as to the point that you are always so far behind but jesus .... the devs only have so much time to develop new areas / content. Why dont you play the game the way you KNOW it was intended to be played. This way the players win and the devs dont have to hear crying all the time. There are only a hand full of devs to develop yet many thousands of players out there trying to find shortcuts. Many of yall will flame me and say im a noob and everything else ... so thanks in advance.</blockquote>And in what way is stockpiling these items any less "work" than doing writs or any of the other ways we give our guilds status? The various players still had to harvest raws or farm loot to get the cash to buy the status items.And if SOE is trying to prevent people stockpiling these items, making them no-trade (but still usable no matter what the guild's level) harms far fewer people than the current proposed change.Basically, this hurts small guilds that have a small number of accounts but several alts per account. I.E., the typical small guild composed of a few RL friends. Yes, it accomplishes the primary purpose of preventing big guilds from stockpiling items, but SOE should have thought of that six months ago, not six weeks before RoK goes live.</blockquote>LOL - how does this even hurt smaller guilds ??? You have to be talking about a small guild lvl 60 then cause this in noway affects small guilds say like lvl 20. And if you are talking about a small lvl 60 guild , then im sorry but you should not expect to lvl at the same rate as a lvl 60 guild with 100 members. And if you do , you are being unrealistic. As a small lvl 60 guild , guess what. GO DO WRITS and the new HQS ( and even old ones cause I doubt yall have done em all ). Then turn in your T7 status items. Cause i doubt there are many lvl 60 guilds that are all in T4. I dont even know of any of those on a pvp server where the players lock. ( Without lvl 70 mains though ). So where was I .... Thats right - if you are a small lvl 60 guild then it is pretty easy to assume yall are all T6+. In that case , all the status items you will loot will help ya lvl the guild (the T7+ ones that is ). </blockquote>Think it through....This will hurt a level 31 guild that consists of 6 level 50 characters and their 12-24 level 10-19 alts.Will it hurt them a lot? No. Should they be affected at all by the fallout from a bad decision that is the end result of SOE's lack of foresight when they implemented the system in the first place? Also no.If SOE didn't want high-level guilds buying these things up and hoarding them for quick leveling, they should have made them no-trade. But =this= solution adversely affects players who have absolutely nothing to do with the purported "abuse" that everyone thinks SOE is trying to address. (And note, they still haven't said =why= they're making this change. They could just as easily think they're addressing plat farming in some way. Devs don't always really understand how their games work, in my experience....)In any case, there's no reason a small level 31 guild should pay any price at all for something that is basically SOE's fault in the first place....</blockquote>What price are they really paying, though? The fact is, we all play the same game, and just because we all do not choose to play in certain ways doesn't mean we should be immune to the effects of otherwise needed changes. Your level 31 guild would pay virtually no price, as the level 50s could still turn in their status items, and the level 10-19 alts won't be level 10-19 for very long, and will soon be able to get the T4 items which will contribute to the guild, as levelling from the high teens to the high 20s is fairly fast. All in all, your level 31 guild might miss out on a few hundred GSP contributed by those lower level alts as they level. This is about the equivalent of one set of writs or half a lower level HQ. In other words, you are trying to blow up what amounts to virtually no loss into some huge hindrance for these lower level guilds.

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 01:25 PM

<cite>PublicVoid wrote:</cite><blockquote>And it's hard to have a level 60-69 alt? or an associate in guild that has one? Please</blockquote>The alt is still an alt. The personal status could not be used by the main except for house items which are no-trade. Same problem to a greater extent with an associate. The original player would not have access to that personal status.

Zaldor

08-31-2007, 01:31 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am curious how much guild status actually comes from the T1, T2 and T3 status items, and how much of that status comes from players of the appropriate level range and not higher level players who got the drops off grey mobs or bought the items on the brokers. It seems to me that many people are making wild assumptions about the importance of these lower level items, but I'd be more inclined to think that lower level players simply dump them on NPC vendors or on the broker, opting for the cash over the status.Also, let's not forget that these items will still be worth personal status.</blockquote>If they weren't contributing much, then why are they making this change? Seems SOE deems them of some import and that they will have something of an impact on a guild level.

KERSTYNN

08-31-2007, 01:34 PM

<cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great change, with a no-trade on these items it would be perfect. And I hope the leveling will be very long.I can't believe so much people are complaining about each tiny difficulty added to the game.Do you remember the leveling on original release ? It was a real accomplishment, with loss of guild xp when members leaved the guild. Now it's really easy to level, just go out do some writs and raids, and ding. What a big deal if it takes several month instead of 1 day ?</blockquote>YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINTPeople will be treated differently depending on their guild's level.This is not about the levelling speed of guilds, this is about that level 20 player not being able to contribute to their level 60 guild via status items, while a level 20 player in a level 10 guild can.It's about the numbers that appear next to your name when you press 'U'.That is what it is about for the majority of people who are not in level 60 guilds.That said, no-trade is a viable alternative option to these changes.Edit:Just checked your guild. See that level 22 applicant in your guild? They can never contribute using status items and receive any guild recognition for it, because they are 38 levels below your guild level (60).Meanwhile a level 22 member of my guild can happily turn in status items they loot for recognition in guild (we are guild level 23).See the difference? Is this really fair to the individual to punish them for choosing a higher guild?If the majority of you think that, I will happily welcome any low level players who you don't care about representing.</blockquote><ul><li>A low level character can contribute to lvl a guild with writs, HQ & kills of ennemies on pvp server. And it's much more effective to do wrist than sell status item, these items are a low % of the status gained.</li><li>Investment in a guild isn't depending only on status gained. If a lvl 60 guild is recruiting low level player I hope it's not only to level faster.</li><li>Just a non-trade tag on item status won't prevent guilds to farm them and sell them on the expansion release. The first goal of this change is to prevent instant leveling.</li></ul></blockquote>This is probably gonna stir up the pot, but it seems to me that 90% of those who seem to think this is no big deal are the people that are all for themselves anyhow, the PVP server players. I have yet to figure out any other reason that they seem to embrace changes like this other than that "if it hurts everyone else it must be a good thing". It saddens me that 90% of those who play on the PVP servers (and post here in the fourms) are so bloody selfish. But when the "all for one means more for me" selfish attitude that breeds on those "mine is bigger than yours and I'll gank you to prove it" servers continues to effect the rest of us "carebears" who play the game casually it is appalling.As has been repeatedly stated, the change is not going to slow down the guilds who SOE seems to be concerned about, they will be able to level just as fast, with or without this change going live. The only reason I can think of that SOE wants to slowdown the leveling of the guilds to 80 quickly really scares me as a consumer: That the level 80 content they are putting out in RoK is not going to be complete by the release date, so that they must slow people down from reaching that goal before they have it completed.The best suggestions I have seen are:1) Make the status items Player level dependent not guild level dependent.2) Make them "auto turn" in when they are looted, like the language tokens are now.3) Make them no-trade.Any of these solutions will still allow the lower level toons in higher level guilds to feel like they are making a contribution no matter how much or how little play time they have available to them, which is the primary concern here. On non pvp servers, if this change goes live you have effectively limited the way those players can contribute to 2: by HQ's (which are limited by number and by level) and writs (which IS mindless grinding no matter how you try to spin it). On the pvp servers, (as noted in the post quoted above) the players have a third opition, ganking other players, which I would guess is how most of the guild stauts is earned. Of course since I don't participate in those "ego-measuring contests" I cannot be certain as to the truth in that.I am hoping that the devs rethink the current idea and will take note of the excellent community suggestions that have been given.

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 01:35 PM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am curious how much guild status actually comes from the T1, T2 and T3 status items, and how much of that status comes from players of the appropriate level range and not higher level players who got the drops off grey mobs or bought the items on the brokers. It seems to me that many people are making wild assumptions about the importance of these lower level items, but I'd be more inclined to think that lower level players simply dump them on NPC vendors or on the broker, opting for the cash over the status.Also, let's not forget that these items will still be worth personal status.</blockquote>If they weren't contributing much, then why are they making this change? Seems SOE deems them of some import and that they will have something of an impact on a guild level.</blockquote>SOE has a habit of listening to the vocal minority that scream something is broken. Like the Energy Vortex Nerf in GU 37.

PublicVoid

08-31-2007, 01:40 PM

Who was shouting about this needing changed? I've never heard anyone mention thing one about this till it appeared in the test forums. You are scapegoating.They are making this change because levelling instantly is trivial. You don't work for months on an expansion and just want people to blow through one part of it in 3 hours.Does it hurt low level players in high level guilds... sure in a very minor way. A totally acceptable sacrifice and it makes sense in game. Why would the fighter guild care that your level 15 swash killed a gnoll and got a relic, when he belongs to a level 55 guild. Big whoop.

tbone7777

08-31-2007, 01:55 PM

Scanning some of the posts, I see some arguments against writs. There are currently writs I can do all day long for status in the Bonemire (non dungeon) that take about 10 mins for each writ. They give far more status than the status items i can get in 10 mins from killing mobs. I did these same type of writs all the way from level 10-70. Are they removing the status from doing these type of writs? If not, I don't see the problem with this change. Simple. Do writs<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />

Dasein

08-31-2007, 01:56 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am curious how much guild status actually comes from the T1, T2 and T3 status items, and how much of that status comes from players of the appropriate level range and not higher level players who got the drops off grey mobs or bought the items on the brokers. It seems to me that many people are making wild assumptions about the importance of these lower level items, but I'd be more inclined to think that lower level players simply dump them on NPC vendors or on the broker, opting for the cash over the status.Also, let's not forget that these items will still be worth personal status.</blockquote>If they weren't contributing much, then why are they making this change? Seems SOE deems them of some import and that they will have something of an impact on a guild level.</blockquote>SOE has a habit of listening to the vocal minority that scream something is broken. Like the Energy Vortex Nerf in GU 37.</blockquote>The guild levelling system has undergone many revisions to try and accomodate different types of guilds, from the raiders to family guilds. So far, the current system favors big guilds above all else - a guild with 100 active members will level considerably faster than one with 10 active members. This change is, in all likelyhood, part of a much larger change to how guild levelling works, and such a change is very needed to allow all guilds to remain viable. With the coming of guild halls, what SOE likely wants to avoid is the conglomeration of smaller guilds into a handful of larger guilds because that is seen as the only way of being able to level. This means reforming the levelling system to be more accomodating for both small and large guilds.

Vatec

08-31-2007, 02:17 PM

<cite>einar438 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remember that constructive input shall be taken further then flaming and inappropriate langauge. The test server is indeed here for you to test within and give feedback due to changes. If this thread continues to spiral out of control, it may be locked and/or removed.Thank you for assisting us in making the best game possible!~Gnobrin!</blockquote> Thank you for clarifying the rationale behind the change to gameplay. </blockquote>Um, but they didn't? They said, "We're sorry, we forgot to mention this change in the patch notes." They still haven't told us =why= they're considering making this change....Unless I missed a post buried somewhere in these 23+ pages?

Badaxe Ba

08-31-2007, 02:17 PM

Status items SHOULD be set to char level. Not guild level.Yes, some people would just create an alt and pump the status in via that way. Yes, some people who have played the game a long time and accumulated alot of coin will buy up status items. They've earned it.Setting status by guild level punishes others though, for no other reason than belonging to a high level guild. And for those who say you can do writs or HQ's. Not everyone's playstyle allows this to be easily done, at least as far as HQ's go. And how many lower tier HQ's are there exactly? Not as many as higher level HQ's. Make the items give status per char level. Not guild level. After all, the guild doesn't pay a player's subscription fees. The player does.

Dasein

08-31-2007, 02:20 PM

The majority of the HQs are in the 30-50 level range, with a few that can be done at around 20.

Vatec

08-31-2007, 02:21 PM

<cite>tbone7777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Scanning some of the posts, I see some arguments against writs. There are currently writs I can do all day long for status in the Bonemire (non dungeon) that take about 10 mins for each writ. They give far more status than the status items i can get in 10 mins from killing mobs. I did these same type of writs all the way from level 10-70. Are they removing the status from doing these type of writs? If not, I don't see the problem with this change. Simple. Do writs<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Writs suck. They're basically a form of grinding. Status items can be acquired in the course of doing something you wanted to do anyway (DFC, HQs, whatever).In the course of my 49.5 levels I've done a total of maybe 8 writs and I've hated every single one of them.Writs are not a solution for everyone. I'm glad you like them. I don't ;^)

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 02:25 PM

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>einar438 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remember that constructive input shall be taken further then flaming and inappropriate langauge. The test server is indeed here for you to test within and give feedback due to changes. If this thread continues to spiral out of control, it may be locked and/or removed.Thank you for assisting us in making the best game possible!~Gnobrin!</blockquote> Thank you for clarifying the rationale behind the change to gameplay. </blockquote>Um, but they didn't? They said, "We're sorry, we forgot to mention this change in the patch notes." They still haven't told us =why= they're considering making this change....Unless I missed a post buried somewhere in these 23+ pages?</blockquote>You didnt miss anything. I have no idea how the person above you interpreted that statement as "rationale" or reason behind the decision. We have NO information officially on why, or if its even open to being changed.

Lionidas

08-31-2007, 02:50 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>einar438 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remember that constructive input shall be taken further then flaming and inappropriate langauge. The test server is indeed here for you to test within and give feedback due to changes. If this thread continues to spiral out of control, it may be locked and/or removed.Thank you for assisting us in making the best game possible!~Gnobrin!</blockquote> Thank you for clarifying the rationale behind the change to gameplay. </blockquote>Um, but they didn't? They said, "We're sorry, we forgot to mention this change in the patch notes." They still haven't told us =why= they're considering making this change....Unless I missed a post buried somewhere in these 23+ pages?</blockquote>You didnt miss anything. I have no idea how the person above you interpreted that statement as "rationale" or reason behind the decision. We have NO information officially on why, or if its even open to being changed.</blockquote>I now see why you wouldn't want this to go into effect, being the leader of a guild with 433 unique members and over 1,000 toons you would more than likely be missing out on a lot of status from all your members to get your guild power leveled up to 80. But honestly, why would this matter so much to you? With that many members it would be easy for your guys to get a group to do a writ or an HQ or hell even try a crafting writ perhaps.Maybe the whole change is brought about because of guilds that have a gross amount of members or guilds with a surplus of money that have stockpiles of status items to turn in?

Sapphirius

08-31-2007, 02:52 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You didnt miss anything. I have no idea how the person above you interpreted that statement as "rationale" or reason behind the decision. We have NO information officially on why, or if its even open to being changed.</blockquote>Pssst... He was being sarcastic.

KERSTYNN

08-31-2007, 02:56 PM

hehe I thought einar438's post was dripping in sarcasm, myself...if it wasn't..well... And yes it woudl benice to have a dev, not an admin, post regarding the thought process behind this...Maybe, just maybe, if we had an idea of exactly where this fits into the big picture of things we might be a liitle more patient and/or accepting of these types of changes. I am beginning to agree with others who are seeing the same pattern of screw-ups that killed SWG happening..God, I hope I am wrong, I really do.....

Trynnus1

08-31-2007, 02:57 PM

I am sorry but this change is a ninja nerf.I am in a lvl 60 guild. I have all my HQs done. So now the only way for me to help lvl the guild is writs and limited Raid status - I dont think so Tim.WE are not a hardcore raid guild but over the last 9 months, I have collected enough personal status to choke a warg. I dont need more. I have completed all the quests I need to complete with no incentive to complete more due to "losing out" on the XP. I have 15 collections quests completed that I am not turning in until the expansion - why? because again wasted XP.Lets jump backward to Nov last year when EoF came out - I was not a raider back then but I was 70/50. I watched new faies in our guild hit 70/100 before I got to 100 myself. Sorry should not happen.The T8 status items should be no trade and move on.

Martrae

08-31-2007, 02:57 PM

This should be tied to character level and not guild level.Why alienate people who want to participate and contribute to their guild just because they don't meet the level requirements?

Duluvian

08-31-2007, 03:01 PM

I like the idea of the items being auto turned in like it was stated before. This will alleviate the selling and buying of sp items to level a guild. I say they do not penalize the people whom have already hoard them, but make this a "from here on" state.

Freliant

08-31-2007, 03:08 PM

I will just assume that the people that want it tied to level just aren't good with logic...Nothing is stopping a level 70 from making a low level alt and turning in those same status items.Why not just make this change then: Make status loot only drop from green or higher mobs, and have it be no rent.What does no rent mean? That if you log off, they disappear from inventory.Don't like that? How about: Status auto applies upon looting and all current status items go bye bye.What? Don't like that either? How about: Have a level restriction on status items related to the guild. O wait, this is what the devs already though off.Seriously though, It has already been said that you can turn in level 60+ status items if you are guild level 60... so just go out and kill those mobs for status items. The low level players will just have to know that those status items they get from the mobs are better suited for putting on the broker to help out lower level guilds. They get badly needed money, and those guilds get a better way of leveling up.

Raster

08-31-2007, 03:10 PM

High level guilds should be killing high level content to get status & raise their level. Farming grey zones & buying massive amounts of status items just to hit the cap quickly is [Removed for Content]. [Removed for Content] grow up do some actual work to level your guilds.

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 03:10 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>einar438 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remember that constructive input shall be taken further then flaming and inappropriate langauge. The test server is indeed here for you to test within and give feedback due to changes. If this thread continues to spiral out of control, it may be locked and/or removed.Thank you for assisting us in making the best game possible!~Gnobrin!</blockquote> Thank you for clarifying the rationale behind the change to gameplay. </blockquote>Um, but they didn't? They said, "We're sorry, we forgot to mention this change in the patch notes." They still haven't told us =why= they're considering making this change....Unless I missed a post buried somewhere in these 23+ pages?</blockquote>You didnt miss anything. I have no idea how the person above you interpreted that statement as "rationale" or reason behind the decision. We have NO information officially on why, or if its even open to being changed.</blockquote>I now see why you wouldn't want this to go into effect, being the leader of a guild with 433 unique members and over 1,000 toons you would more than likely be missing out on a lot of status from all your members to get your guild power leveled up to 80. But honestly, why would this matter so much to you? With that many members it would be easy for your guys to get a group to do a writ or an HQ or hell even try a crafting writ perhaps.Maybe the whole change is brought about because of guilds that have a gross amount of members or guilds with a surplus of money that have stockpiles of status items to turn in? </blockquote>Well, lemme 'splain. First off. I WANT it to take as long as humanly possible for any guild, large or small to get to the cap. I feel that making progress towards level gives a guild a sense of cohesion and unity. Im all for a 3 million status per level requirement even.Having said that - with this change or no, a guild of our size will, in all liklihood, hit the cap in just a couple weeks, tops. Last time we did not hoard items and were second, I think, on our server to cap out. For the record, we have no coordinated "Stockpiling" going on that I am aware of. We simply have enough ppl to get the levels anyway. So why then, to answer your question, do I care about this? Because my guild bases ranks on amount of status contributed. Because I think the change is forcing players to writ grind. Because that writ grind will result in heavy competition in already limited writ areas. Because it hurts lower level players in my guild who cant legitimately loot status items, meaning the lvl 70's have a tool to advance the team that others dont. Because of the way it was rolled out. And because Im never in favor of limiting gameplay options. Should there be 2 ways to level your guild? or 3? Personally Id love to see them add a whole bunch of new ways to gain status, and increase the xp requirement. I hope that answers your question. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 03:11 PM

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You didnt miss anything. I have no idea how the person above you interpreted that statement as "rationale" or reason behind the decision. We have NO information officially on why, or if its even open to being changed.</blockquote>Pssst... He was being sarcastic.</blockquote>/smacks self in forhead!DOH!!LOL

AdamWest007

08-31-2007, 03:14 PM

So basically you want to level (your guild) on grey (to your guild) mobs?And that should be allowed, why exactly? Because you horded status items with the obvious intent of bypassing content?Guild level will finally mean something in T8. I'm sorry, but you don't get all the *benefit* of a T8 guild without the *risk* of T8 zones.Will I be able to level my toon to 80 by mindlessly killing orcs in CL? No.Will your guild be allowed to do the equivalent? No.

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 03:14 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will just assume that the people that want it tied to level just aren't good with logic...Nothing is stopping a level 70 from making a low level alt and turning in those same status items.Why not just make this change then: Make status loot only drop from green or higher mobs, and have it be no rent.What does no rent mean? That if you log off, they disappear from inventory.Don't like that? How about: Status auto applies upon looting and all current status items go bye bye.What? Don't like that either? How about: Have a level restriction on status items related to the guild. O wait, this is what the devs already though off.Seriously though, It has already been said that you can turn in level 60+ status items if you are guild level 60... so just go out and kill those mobs for status items. The low level players will just have to know that those status items they get from the mobs are better suited for putting on the broker to help out lower level guilds. They get badly needed money, and those guilds get a better way of leveling up.</blockquote>The loss of the personal status! You really think some player with a level 70 character is going to throw away millions in personal status they paid double digit plat to acquire? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 03:16 PM

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>So basically you want to level (your guild) on grey (to your guild) mobs?And that should be allowed, why exactly? Because you horded status items with the obvious intent of bypassing content?Guild level will finally mean something in T8. I'm sorry, but you don't get all the *benefit* of a T8 guild without the *risk* of T8 zones.Will I be able to level my toon to 80 by mindlessly killing orcs in CL? No.Will your guild be allowed to do the equivalent? No.</blockquote>Not sure who you are addressing here. Mobs arent grey to guilds. They are grey to PLAYER LEVEL. Therefore so should the status items be. A lvl 10 or 30 or 50 player in a lvl 60 guild cannot contribute status this way but a level 70 can. see?

kreepr

08-31-2007, 03:19 PM

steelblueangel

08-31-2007, 03:20 PM

If the items for guild status are nerfed to the level of the guild it will greatly hender the progression of non-raiding guilds. Guilds that are too small in number or level to raid as of present can only raise their guild level by writs, status item turn in, or hq's. Hq's are limited which provide larger amounts of guild status. When eq began giving guild status points for raiders they created a great divide between those that can and those that can not raid guilds. Guilds that could raid quickly hit the guild level cap leaving the guilds that could not raid far behind them in levels. New players and veterans began to leave the smaller guilds to join the maxed level guilds to buy the reward items only allowed in higher level guilds. As players flooded out of the smaller guilds to merge with the raiding guilds or guilds with the ability to raid, it left the non-raiding guilds with the option to either disband it or continue with writs, hq's, and status items to level their guilds. Hence, status items are only a boost to the raiding guilds since the majority of their status points are gained from raids; in contrast, status items are extremly important to non-raiding guilds since they are limited in choice and ability to gain status points. Nerfing the status items with a guild level restriction will not stop the progression of raiding guilds since they will continue to raid for status points and will quickly be maxed in out in level again. New rewards will be added for higher level guilds which will again entice many people to leave their smaller non raiding guilds to obtain these items. Nerfing the status items with a guild level restriction however will be very harmful to non-raiding guilds, since it will turn many status items into vendor trash that could have been used to level the struggling non raiding guilds. Many hq's require a raid to complete the quest. Raiding guilds can bring in numerous hq's that require an end raid in one day, while the smaller guilds may have to wait months to find a raiding party to complete their hq's. Many of the low level writs require killing heroics; hence for lower level toon guilds they must wait for each other and group to complete those writs. Higher level writs after level 60 can be done solo but many lower level toon guilds are not blessed with higher level toons to bring in those writ status points for them. Status items were always until now were something that anyone could turn in to assist their guild; however, if status items are restricted to guild level that will be one less option for the struggling smaller guilds and only a minor inconvience to the guilds that can raid for status points. If eq is attempting to slow guild progression then it should look in the direction of status points gained from raiding since this is the fastest means available and used most often to level guilds. One only needs to look at the higher level guilds and they will find a guild that raided their way to a maxed guild level.

Duluvian

08-31-2007, 03:21 PM

OK I will append my previous statement. The mob has to be green or above and they will be setup to automatically turned in? This will help out the guild leaders/officers or anyone like myself whom spend most of their times mentored down helping all the other guildies out.

beladi

08-31-2007, 03:26 PM

<cite>Midwen@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>My two cents, One - Sony appears to be responding to an issue they should have been aware of in the first place - Their players for the most part have brains. And they used their brains to plan ahead for the cap raise. So instead of previously turning the items into no-trade or controlling drops on gray mobs they have to panic and bring in the nerf bat. Now this is going to punish the players that thought ahead and make it difficult for lower level chars to help their guild if its higher level. And the solution is to do writs and named kills? Well can we say camp city for writ mobs? And all these guilds that are capped and will no longer receive status for kills they did while capped so they are worthless. So instead they will sell these now worthless items to lower level guilds and those guilds will skyrocket to higher levels. And when the level of the guild exceeds the player levels they are stuck till they level up to the guild level. And what about the amount of status earned by these lower level item? T1 status items give how much status? 1 point. I mean really, to a level 60 guild how much guild level do you receive for this stuff?Two - And as for the guild leveling in general what does it matter if you cap fast or slow? What benefits do you get from guild level? A few status vendor items. Character titles. Maybe a new mount type. Nothing that is game altering or beneficial to the actual game play. At the most its bragging rights. So what does it really matter if they nerf it or not. Well to lowbie chars in high level guilds it could mean a lot if the guild bases loot rights by status contribution. But what else is affected by this nerf? Does the guild get better housing at higher level? More bank slots? How about vendor prices? Any reduction in commission? Higher sale value of fender fodder? Not that I have seen mentioned. So what does it matter. So basically this nerf is both meaningless and another thumbing of the nose at SOE's players because SOE didn't think ahead. It means that all the time and coin put into collecting these items for the cap raise was wasted. So the players either sell the stuff to low level guilds (in an attempt to recoup their losses in coin) or throw it away for a total loss. If SOE had planned ahead there would have been several possible solutions and fewer people would be upset about this. They didn't and now here we are. On a personal note I think this nerf sucks because it screws over the planners in the game. Way to go SOE! You just said, 'We screwed up and we are going to punish our players for it.' It's not an exploit to do what these people have been doing all along, selling status items. And it's pointless. So what if a guild races to the new cap, are they going to receive anything for it? Not that I can see, so why does it matter? Let it go SOE. Fix the drops for the next cap change but do it after these people get there use out of their planning and effort, not before. You screwed up and it can't be fixed now without doing damage to your player base, and we are your reason you have a job.I'm done. Good Hunting folks. </blockquote>It matters because guild halls are actually in the works. The rewards associated with those will most likely be tied to guild level. Making it so that only status items of the guild's level or higher ( like a lvl 50 guild only getting status from items that are T5 and up ) only punishes those players who's toons are lower level and keeps them from making maximum contribution to the effort to level. It severely hurts those in RP guilds where there is a tendency to have multiple lower level alts rather than one high level toon that just grinds experience.Tying the reward of the item to the level of the toon is the only fair way I see to not punish those players for having lower level toons by making changes to the way status items are counted.

Allurana

08-31-2007, 03:27 PM

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>So basically you want to level (your guild) on grey (to your guild) mobs?And that should be allowed, why exactly? Because you horded status items with the obvious intent of bypassing content?Guild level will finally mean something in T8. I'm sorry, but you don't get all the *benefit* of a T8 guild without the *risk* of T8 zones.Will I be able to level my toon to 80 by mindlessly killing orcs in CL? No.Will your guild be allowed to do the equivalent? No.</blockquote>Actually, yes you can level to 80 in commonlands killing orcs - it is called Mentoring - very very possible. It would be excessively slow but is possible. I have a warden that has gone from level 47 to level 53 while mentoring another one of my characters the entire time.

Freliant

08-31-2007, 03:29 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will just assume that the people that want it tied to level just aren't good with logic...Nothing is stopping a level 70 from making a low level alt and turning in those same status items.Why not just make this change then: Make status loot only drop from green or higher mobs, and have it be no rent.What does no rent mean? That if you log off, they disappear from inventory.Don't like that? How about: Status auto applies upon looting and all current status items go bye bye.What? Don't like that either? How about: Have a level restriction on status items related to the guild. O wait, this is what the devs already though off.Seriously though, It has already been said that you can turn in level 60+ status items if you are guild level 60... so just go out and kill those mobs for status items. The low level players will just have to know that those status items they get from the mobs are better suited for putting on the broker to help out lower level guilds. They get badly needed money, and those guilds get a better way of leveling up.</blockquote>The loss of the personal status! You really think some player with a level 70 character is going to throw away millions in personal status they paid double digit plat to acquire? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes actually, cause I know of a guild leader that the day of the expansion gave logged in his many mule toons to give the status items to his guildmates. No, his mules were not part of the initial guild, and he wanted them to have status and to give the guild status. He spent HOURS trading. That is what is going to be avoided.

beladi

08-31-2007, 03:34 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>einar438 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please remember that constructive input shall be taken further then flaming and inappropriate langauge. The test server is indeed here for you to test within and give feedback due to changes. If this thread continues to spiral out of control, it may be locked and/or removed.Thank you for assisting us in making the best game possible!~Gnobrin!</blockquote> Thank you for clarifying the rationale behind the change to gameplay. </blockquote>Um, but they didn't? They said, "We're sorry, we forgot to mention this change in the patch notes." They still haven't told us =why= they're considering making this change....Unless I missed a post buried somewhere in these 23+ pages?</blockquote>You didnt miss anything. I have no idea how the person above you interpreted that statement as "rationale" or reason behind the decision. We have NO information officially on why, or if its even open to being changed.</blockquote>I now see why you wouldn't want this to go into effect, being the leader of a guild with 433 unique members and over 1,000 toons you would more than likely be missing out on a lot of status from all your members to get your guild power leveled up to 80. But honestly, why would this matter so much to you? With that many members it would be easy for your guys to get a group to do a writ or an HQ or hell even try a crafting writ perhaps.Maybe the whole change is brought about because of guilds that have a gross amount of members or guilds with a surplus of money that have stockpiles of status items to turn in? </blockquote>Well, lemme 'splain. First off. I WANT it to take as long as humanly possible for any guild, large or small to get to the cap. I feel that making progress towards level gives a guild a sense of cohesion and unity. Im all for a 3 million status per level requirement even.Having said that - with this change or no, a guild of our size will, in all liklihood, hit the cap in just a couple weeks, tops. Last time we did not hoard items and were second, I think, on our server to cap out. For the record, we have no coordinated "Stockpiling" going on that I am aware of. We simply have enough ppl to get the levels anyway. So why then, to answer your question, do I care about this? Because my guild bases ranks on amount of status contributed. Because I think the change is forcing players to writ grind. Because that writ grind will result in heavy competition in already limited writ areas. Because it hurts lower level players in my guild who cant legitimately loot status items, meaning the lvl 70's have a tool to advance the team that others dont. Because of the way it was rolled out. And because Im never in favor of limiting gameplay options. Should there be 2 ways to level your guild? or 3? Personally Id love to see them add a whole bunch of new ways to gain status, and increase the xp requirement. I hope that answers your question. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" </blockquote>I think this is exactly correct. Doing this will force even more competition in the zones where writs are given out. If this change happens, then the devs need to even the playing field by releasing more writs and spreading the players out a bit.I still don't like it though. My lower level alts should be able to contribute to the guild too with the items they turn in from kills too.

Terreciel

08-31-2007, 03:35 PM

I don't know what servers you all play on who are claiming that guilds capped to 60 in a day or two. On Unrest, where there are at least a dozen 100+ member guilds who raced to level to 60 on the last expansion, it took almost 2 weeks for the first guild to hit 60. This was not accomplished by turning in status items; all the status items that were hoarded got the top guilds 1-2 levels right away. The remaining 8 levels were grinding writs, status raids, completing HQs and collection quests. I'm sure I speak for all these guilds when I say we worked hard to get to level 60. It wasn't simply a matter of turning in a few bushels of status items.Each level requires exponentially more points. Level 60 required several million; I expect getting from 60 to 80 will be billions. Paraffin documents are a drop in the bucket, but every drop is one drop closer. I can't imagine that any guild has hoarded enough documents, amulets, etc. to be able to do a massive turn-in and go from 60-80 in one swoop. It will require far more than vaults full of small-value status items.Nevertheless, eliminating these entirely from higher level guilds is unfair to those guilds who HAVE worked to save them up. As pointed out by numerous other posters, most players/guilds have worked either to kill the mobs that drop these or worked to earn the coin to buy them. The majority of your player base should not be penalized because of the handful of guilds that are bot collections and/or purchase their plat.Clearly you can see from the 25+ pages of comments that this is a very poor decision. I hope you reconsider this before you go live with it.

Devilsbane

08-31-2007, 03:35 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>The loss of the personal status! You really think some player with a level 70 character is going to throw away millions in personal status they paid double digit plat to acquire? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes actually, cause I know of a guild leader that the day of the expansion gave logged in his many mule toons to give the status items to his guildmates. No, his mules were not part of the initial guild, and he wanted them to have status and to give the guild status. He spent HOURS trading. That is what is going to be avoided.</blockquote>Okay so he gave Guildmates status items. Other players that can use the personal status. How is giving status items to guildmates throwing away status? He spent hours trading eh? I spend hours trading with my selling alts that are selling one type of goods (Lore, weapons, armor, jewelry, scrolls). The reason why is only six items can be traded at one time. Heck before the last update each and every item had to be dragged to the window. Alt + click FTW!

Freliant

08-31-2007, 03:37 PM

<cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't know what servers you all play on who are claiming that guilds capped to 60 in a day or two. On Unrest, where there are at least a dozen 100+ member guilds who raced to level to 60 on the last expansion, it took almost 2 weeks for the first guild to hit 60. This was not accomplished by turning in status items; all the status items that were hoarded got the top guilds 1-2 levels right away. The remaining 8 levels were grinding writs, status raids, completing HQs and collection quests. I'm sure I speak for all these guilds when I say we worked hard to get to level 60. It wasn't simply a matter of turning in a few bushels of status items.Each level requires exponentially more points. Level 60 required several million; I expect getting from 60 to 80 will be billions. Paraffin documents are a drop in the bucket, but every drop is one drop closer. I can't imagine that any guild has hoarded enough documents, amulets, etc. to be able to do a massive turn-in and go from 60-80 in one swoop. It will require far more than vaults full of small-value status items.Nevertheless, eliminating these entirely from higher level guilds is unfair to those guilds who HAVE worked to save them up. As pointed out by numerous other posters, most players/guilds have worked either to kill the mobs that drop these or worked to earn the coin to buy them. The majority of your player base should not be penalized because of the handful of guilds that are bot collections and/or purchase their plat.Clearly you can see from the 25+ pages of comments that this is a very poor decision. I hope you reconsider this before you go live with it.</blockquote>The 25 pages of posts are NOT all from people that want this change stopped. Many are also from people happy this change is being put in place. Don't group the 2 together, or I could just say the opposite: 25 pages of people happy that the change is being put in place.

Freliant

08-31-2007, 03:41 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>The loss of the personal status! You really think some player with a level 70 character is going to throw away millions in personal status they paid double digit plat to acquire? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Yes actually, cause I know of a guild leader that the day of the expansion gave logged in his many mule toons to give the status items to his guildmates. No, his mules were not part of the initial guild, and he wanted them to have status and to give the guild status. He spent HOURS trading. That is what is going to be avoided.</blockquote>Okay so he gave Guildmates status items. Other players that can use the personal status. How is giving status items to guildmates throwing away status?</blockquote>First off, don't cut off my comment on your quote. I said: Nothing is stopping a level 70 from making an alt and turning in those status items. Which means, he is still keeping those status in his account, and in his guild. The example I cited went worse, because he did not even keep the status in his account. It was clearly with the sole intention of leveling up the guild. and just an FYI, his was the first guild on my server to reach the cap by the night of that expansion date. Was it an impressive accomplishment... I think so, but it trvialized guild leveling non-the-less. They did 0 EoF content to get the rewards of that tier.

Kendricke

08-31-2007, 03:45 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see level 60+ guilds refused to accept low level players in the future on the grounds that they 'can't contribute'.</blockquote>Go ahead and turn 'em down. We're level 60 with more than 90% of our members at level 70. You can send those turned down lowbies to us and we'll gladly take them in. Sure, they can't turn in status items, but they can perform city writs, tradeskill writs, heritage quests, and eventually help out with guild raids. Oh yeah, they can also buy the higher level status items on the broker if they want...

liveja

08-31-2007, 03:53 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>it trvialized guild leveling non-the-less. They did 0 EoF content to get the rewards of that tier.</blockquote>When this goes into effect, nothing will stop me from starting my own guild, with my level 70 as the sole member, & then farming/buying up tons of status items to turn in all at once, all of which will serve to help my level 1 guild gain levels. Nothing that this new nerf will do, will stop or change this fact.There, I just totally trivialized guild leveling, while totally avoiding EOF.BTW, just out of curiosity ... why do you think that EOF is some sort of separate "tier"? Loping Plains is somewhat more difficult than Bonemire, but they're both T7 zones.

Sunrayn

08-31-2007, 03:54 PM

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can see level 60+ guilds refused to accept low level players in the future on the grounds that they 'can't contribute'.</blockquote>Go ahead and turn 'em down. We're level 60 with more than 90% of our members at level 70. You can send those turned down lowbies to us and we'll gladly take them in. Sure, they can't turn in status items, but they can perform city writs, tradeskill writs, heritage quests, and eventually help out with guild raids. Oh yeah, they can also buy the higher level status items on the broker if they want...</blockquote>Aye, they can do writs, HQ's to help the guild. What they *cant* do is turn in all those status items they collect as a *bonus* for the guild. Oh, but they can *buy* the higher tier ones off the broker? There is an awesome deal.....They can just vendor all the useless status items for money to *buy* status items in order to get the bonus they originally earned....

Freliant

08-31-2007, 03:57 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>it trvialized guild leveling non-the-less. They did 0 EoF content to get the rewards of that tier.</blockquote>When this goes into effect, nothing will stop me from starting my own guild, with my level 70 as the sole member, & then farming/buying up tons of status items to turn in all at once, all of which will serve to help my level 1 guild gain levels. Nothing that this new nerf will do, will stop or change this fact.There, I just totally trivialized guild leveling, while totally avoiding EOF.BTW, just out of curiosity ... why do you think that EOF is some sort of separate "tier"? Loping Plains is somewhat more difficult than Bonemire, but they're both T7 zones.</blockquote>Tier/expansion, don't argue over trivialities, you know what I meant. And in your example, you are not getting level 80 in one day, which is what this change is suposed to prevent.

Kenazeer

08-31-2007, 03:59 PM

Poor old Zeygnome. Everyone is ignoring him and it is such a good solution.

Megera

08-31-2007, 04:01 PM

I'm very against this change. Again - it is punishment for the guilds who do *not* abuse to get at those who do. And I'm not so sure it is abuse. By comparison, if you work your hinney off and save up for a car and pay cash rather than buy it on credit, you should not go into the bank and then get told 'oh, I'm sorry, we decided all bills smaller than a certain size won't count towards your car. So sorry. Your saving and scrimping for months means nothing because we feel it should only count if you got the money in the last week or so, too."I don't care for the big high level guilds, over all - it is a player preference and a style preference, and i wish most of them well even while thinking 'who cares if they get nerfed, i'm not in a big guild'. But this - this is stupid. They saved those items up legit. It does also hurt the little guys - we have some very low level members in our guild who this would demoralize. Sure, its just a drop in a bucket but anyone who's had a leak in their homes knows those drops add up. Stop min/maxing the game. let the doofuses who insist on crushing all the life out of the game by grinding the rules for every drop of advantage just do it and stop angsting about it. By trying to stop people from cheating that isn't cheating, you are just crushing the life out of the game for the people who are not abusing the rules to get themselves unfair advantages.you want to stop hoarding, make them decay over time. ::shrug:: that will stop them from being saved up for months, but won't hurt the little guys.

ZeyGnome

08-31-2007, 04:05 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Poor old Zeygnome. Everyone is ignoring him and it is such a good solution.</blockquote>Hmm, maybe it would have sounded better if Marcia had said it?Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!

Freliant

08-31-2007, 04:05 PM

<cite>ZeyGnome wrote:</cite><blockquote>Worth stating again:Guild Level Lock status items for guilds 60+, leave the below 60 the way it is now. So the items below 60 would read 'Gets guild status for Guilds under level 60' and the new status items (if there are any) will be tier specific. Solves the stocking up problem without penalizing everyone in the game.</blockquote>Its a good idea. Good backdrop if they decide to rework the status items because of the squeaky wheels we have.

liveja

08-31-2007, 04:10 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Tier/expansion, don't argue over trivialities, you know what I meant. No, actually, I don't have the faintest idea what you "meant". I go by your words. I'm not a mind-reader. You say "tier", then I see you meaning "tier". If you mean "expansion", say so, though why it should have any relevance here is beyond me, since EOF has content of all tiers. And in your example, you are not getting level 80 in one day, which is what this change is suposed to prevent.In my example, I'm trivializing the heck out of guild leveling, which is what I thought this change was supposed to prevent. I didn't realize it's just a "prevent people from leveling to 80, but let all the sub-60s trivialize content all they want" idea. & seriously, depending on just how many of those blasted things I stockpile ... how do you know, really, how far I'll get? If get 30 guild levels in a day, don't you think that's a pretty substantial trivialization of game content, one that should be avoided at all costs, yet will not be prevented in the slightest by this change?BTW, I wonder just how far I could get, without ever experiencing DOF/KOS content. I mean, since you're so concerned with skipping expansions, you know.</blockquote>

Freliant

08-31-2007, 04:16 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Tier/expansion, don't argue over trivialities, you know what I meant. No, actually, I don't have the faintest idea what you "meant". I go by your words. I'm not a mind-reader. You say "tier", then I see you meaning "tier". If you mean "expansion", say so, though why it should have any relevance here is beyond me, since EOF has content of all tiers. And in your example, you are not getting level 80 in one day, which is what this change is suposed to prevent.In my example, I'm trivializing the heck out of guild leveling, which is what I thought this change was supposed to prevent. I didn't realize it's just a "prevent people from leveling to 80, but let all the sub-60s trivialize content all they want" idea. & seriously, depending on just how many of those blasted things I stockpile ... how do you know, really, how far I'll get? If get 30 guild levels in a day, don't you think that's a pretty substantial trivialization of game content, one that should be avoided at all costs, yet will not be prevented in the slightest by this change?BTW, I wonder just how far I could get, without ever experiencing DOF/KOS content. I mean, since you're so concerned with skipping expansions, you know.</blockquote></blockquote>Actually Flaye, I know for a fact that you are not an idiot, because I have read many of your threads, so stop pretending like you are one for the sake of this argument. You know darn well that the scope of this change is mainly due to guild leveling being trivialized when other guild level increases were put in effect. If you are truly concerened about the lower end players, then why don't you support my initial suggestion that all loot should auto apply when looted, and that this "loot" only drop from green and higher mobs. And that in addition to this, all existing loot auto-apply to the character holding it even if that person never logs in till Kunark comes out.This would solve everyone's problems, because there would be no uber leveling the first day of the expansion, and all the lowbies will still be able to contribute to guild growth.

Vatec

08-31-2007, 04:20 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't know what servers you all play on who are claiming that guilds capped to 60 in a day or two. On Unrest, where there are at least a dozen 100+ member guilds who raced to level to 60 on the last expansion, it took almost 2 weeks for the first guild to hit 60. This was not accomplished by turning in status items; all the status items that were hoarded got the top guilds 1-2 levels right away. The remaining 8 levels were grinding writs, status raids, completing HQs and collection quests. I'm sure I speak for all these guilds when I say we worked hard to get to level 60. It wasn't simply a matter of turning in a few bushels of status items.Each level requires exponentially more points. Level 60 required several million; I expect getting from 60 to 80 will be billions. Paraffin documents are a drop in the bucket, but every drop is one drop closer. I can't imagine that any guild has hoarded enough documents, amulets, etc. to be able to do a massive turn-in and go from 60-80 in one swoop. It will require far more than vaults full of small-value status items.Nevertheless, eliminating these entirely from higher level guilds is unfair to those guilds who HAVE worked to save them up. As pointed out by numerous other posters, most players/guilds have worked either to kill the mobs that drop these or worked to earn the coin to buy them. The majority of your player base should not be penalized because of the handful of guilds that are bot collections and/or purchase their plat.Clearly you can see from the 25+ pages of comments that this is a very poor decision. I hope you reconsider this before you go live with it.</blockquote>The 25 pages of posts are NOT all from people that want this change stopped. Many are also from people happy this change is being put in place. Don't group the 2 together, or I could just say the opposite: 25 pages of people happy that the change is being put in place.</blockquote>Err, 23 pages of people opposed to the change and 3 pages of you repeating over and over that you like it?Yeah, that's about right....

therena

08-31-2007, 04:22 PM

All you have to do sony is start making these no trade. They should of been that way all along.

AdamWest007

08-31-2007, 04:38 PM

<cite>therena wrote:</cite><blockquote>All you have to do sony is start making these no trade. They should of been that way all along.</blockquote>Excellent suggestion. Simply delete all currently stockpiled status items from the game, and then make all NEWLY acquired items no-trade.There are a lot of similarly excellent solutions to this problem in this post, but I can't help but notice that they all allow the stockpiled items to still be used.Hey Sony, I've got three stacks of rough coral. Is it okay if I use those for T8 AD3s? (Sorry therena, not to pick on you, just grabbing a random post)

Freliant

08-31-2007, 04:40 PM

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therena wrote:</cite><blockquote>All you have to do sony is start making these no trade. They should of been that way all along.</blockquote>Excellent suggestion. Simply delete all currently stockpiled status items from the game, and then make all NEWLY acquired items no-trade.There are a lot of similarly excellent solutions to this problem in this post, but I can't help but notice that they all allow the stockpiled items to still be used.Hey Sony, I've got three stacks of rough coral. Is it okay if I use those for T8 AD3s? (Sorry therena, not to pick on you, just grabbing a random post)</blockquote>Heh, what is really funny, is that you technically CAN use the by-product of the adepts in making T8 potions and poisons... all you have to do is do the hidden alchemic quest in Rivervale. ^_^

Kilaak

08-31-2007, 04:42 PM

This is just SOE's bias towards raiding guilds. They will still level quickly, cause they raid. There are no low level toons in raid guilds foir the most part, maybe some trade alts.It will just require you raid to reach a high guild level..

The Punisher

08-31-2007, 04:49 PM

I have to admit I'm disappointed in the lack of constructive feedback or conversation by the Dev team regarding this change. I'm not surprised by it...just disappointed.I am opposed to this change across the board. I think it reduces the input of lower leveled players who are in higher leveled guilds. I consider it a slap in the face to the newer players. And as a guild leader I think takes away from our ability to track a guild members contributions, if even to a small degree. Again, it minimizes the player for the sake of the game. Why SOE cannot foresee how people will attempt to exploit ingame systems is beyond me. Every time something is implemented, certain players will look for ways to exploit an oversight. There are online companies who are dedicated to it, they sell ingame coin. However, I don't think it's necessary to abandon ideas because people exploit. Most of these "fixes" are a rush to judgment by some higher power based on someones perception of "fairness/unfairness." The squeaky wheel gets the most grease when it comes to /petitions with SOE. But rather than examine and re-assess, SOE casts its nerf bat and dismisses the rest of the fan base. This is not a system that encourages feedback from it's players.I do not think making status items No-Trade would solve the problem. I hate the idea of no-trade items, I consider it unrealistic. I like the concept of "diminishing returns," that was brought up way at the beginning of this thread. Making them less productive for a high level guild and very productive for a low level guild makes sense. In reverse however, high leveled status items should not "express level" a low leveled guild. This idea has merit and can be tailored to fit everyone's concerns across the board IMO.I also think the possibility of capping the number of items one can turn in per RL day is another possibility. Something similar to a lockout timer for the Faction NPCs.I'm glad most people here have been able to stay on topic and not turn this into a flame war. This is clearly an important issue and should be treated as such. I only hope the Dev team can find a way to see it.

liveja

08-31-2007, 04:51 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you are truly concerened about the lower end players, then why don't you support my initial suggestion that all loot should auto apply when looted</blockquote>Ahem ... I *did*.

Vatec

08-31-2007, 04:54 PM

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therena wrote:</cite><blockquote>All you have to do sony is start making these no trade. They should of been that way all along.</blockquote>Excellent suggestion. Simply delete all currently stockpiled status items from the game, and then make all NEWLY acquired items no-trade.There are a lot of similarly excellent solutions to this problem in this post, but I can't help but notice that they all allow the stockpiled items to still be used.Hey Sony, I've got three stacks of rough coral. Is it okay if I use those for T8 AD3s? (Sorry therena, not to pick on you, just grabbing a random post)</blockquote>They should have implemented this shortly after EoF came out if they thought it was a problem. Waiting until two months before the next expansion, allowing people to operate for ten months on the assumption that the system was "working as intended," is simply unfair. There are a lot of things I like about the way SOE runs EQ2, but this sort of thing is the kind I really don't like. It's short-sighted and unprofessional.

Lionidas

08-31-2007, 05:06 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Well, lemme 'splain. First off. I WANT it to take as long as humanly possible for any guild, large or small to get to the cap. I feel that making progress towards level gives a guild a sense of cohesion and unity. Im all for a 3 million status per level requirement even.Having said that - with this change or no, a guild of our size will, in all liklihood, hit the cap in just a couple weeks, tops. Last time we did not hoard items and were second, I think, on our server to cap out. For the record, we have no coordinated "Stockpiling" going on that I am aware of. We simply have enough ppl to get the levels anyway. So why then, to answer your question, do I care about this? Because my guild bases ranks on amount of status contributed. Because I think the change is forcing players to writ grind. Because that writ grind will result in heavy competition in already limited writ areas. Because it hurts lower level players in my guild who cant legitimately loot status items, meaning the lvl 70's have a tool to advance the team that others dont. Because of the way it was rolled out. And because Im never in favor of limiting gameplay options. Should there be 2 ways to level your guild? or 3? Personally Id love to see them add a whole bunch of new ways to gain status, and increase the xp requirement. I hope that answers your question. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" </blockquote>So you think SoE is forcing your members to do writs when in actuality it is your guild's own rules that force them to churn out status in order to advance in rank. Somehow I have the ability to promote and demote members in my guild without a restriction such as status. I do not want to get into the rules of your guild and how you wish to run it is your business but you might want to not place blame on others that are hindering your own set of rules.Edited to the Whole StoryBecause my guild bases rank on amount of status contributed. Because I refuse to change, I force players to writ grind.

Lionidas

08-31-2007, 05:09 PM

<cite>Kilaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is just SOE's bias towards raiding guilds. They will still level quickly, cause they raid. There are no low level toons in raid guilds foir the most part, maybe some trade alts.It will just require you raid to reach a high guild level..</blockquote>Or could it be that they are going against the larger guilds that have the ability to plow through 20 guild levels and reach the cap with little to no effort? Turning this into a "Raiders are the Devil!" spin further shows your hate toward another playstyle regardless if your reasons are unfounded or not.

BWLeeEllison

08-31-2007, 05:17 PM

My guild promotes its members based on the status they contribute. We are currently level 56, and we still take in new membership from all levels. This sneaky little change Sony is trying to SLY in will make it so that they have an even harder time earning rank in the guild.Several other posters have proposed great ideas on how to prevent exploiting status item turn ins. Sony, please pay attention to your customer base and don't screw us over.

Prrasha

08-31-2007, 05:18 PM

OK, I hate being "that guy", but I'm not reading a 27 page post to see if these thoughts have been brought up.On the hack-around-it-by-players side:There are a lot of sub-max-level guilds with max-level characters. What's to stop me (L70, GL43) from talking to members of "J. Random GL60 Guild" and working out a trade? Get a "contract" sort of thing going, and every existant and newly-found 60+ status item will be used only by a high level guild, and other ones will be traded down to lower level guilds. I'd happily do that for, say, a 5% or 10% status tradeup (give me 10,000 status worth of T5 relics, I'll give you 9,000-9,500 worth of T7 ones.)Even without a "contract", this sort of thing will happen via the broker; ye olde Invisible Hand will set the prices for relics as a small multiple of their status cost (a 100 SP relic goes for 1gp, a 400 SP relic for 4.5gp, a 900 sp relic for 10gp, as a completely made up example with nice round numbers.) Now I'm better off selling my high-tier relics and buying someone else's low tier ones. Of course, the plat-farm bots who have sales crates full of nothing but Master1s, tradeskill rares, and status items may be enough to throw this off...On the better-choice-for-a-fix on SoE side:Do exactly what you're saying you'll do. Then, add a new type of relics that give status when Looted, not when Turned In. (Still sellable for coin, maybe... or better, just like the new language items that vaporize themselves as you loot them.)Now, new guildies can still gather relics of any level to advance their guild, and the status-loot-hoarders can't sit on eleventy-thousand relics waiting for the next max guild level boost.

liveja

08-31-2007, 05:24 PM

<cite>Prrasha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do exactly what you're saying you'll do. Then, add a new type of relics that give status when Looted, not when Turned In. </blockquote>Freliant suggested something like this, only his/her suggestion was for all status items to act that way, without the need for a new type of them.I don't have a problem with that suggestion. In fact, I think it might be one of the better ideas I've seen in this thread. But I think the overall blanket nerf is simply ill-conceived, & I'd love to see some sort of "compromise" worked out here, so that my lower level guildies are not restricted to ONLY writ & HQ grinding. I'd like to see them be able to to help our guild level, while they're out fighting mobs, if by no other method than by having all those status items process themselves immediately, just like language items currently do.But the current blanket nerf is simply dumb. Really, really, really mind-blowingly dumb.

Littleflame

08-31-2007, 05:43 PM

It has been said before, but it needs to be said yet again: Many of us have earned these status items on main character or alt character, and since the guild hit level 60 some have saved them. We haven't farmed them, we haven't bought them, we simply have saved what we have earned by fighting the mobs. For non hard core guilds even the littlest of the items mean something.Yes it's sad that low level people would not be able contribute as much, but why ignore that high level people would not contribute as much as before either. If your guild is not raiding regularly (hands up, how many of you are in casual guilds, how many of you mostly solo) and most high level people are pretty much done with all of the HQs; well it only leaves grinding writs for them as well. Or maybe trying to out farm the farmers on the high level status items. I doubt either is exactly a good solution. Sympathy is always on the low level player's side, but think how this change would affect everyone.Stealth change is always bad, and this one particularly badly planned (if it was planned at all instead of it just being thrown into the mix). Make the status items no-drop, make them apply as looted - I don't mind, the change is welcomed. However, punishing everyone for something few guilds do is absurd and asinine.

Lionidas

08-31-2007, 05:56 PM

<cite>Carmilla@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>It has been said before, but it needs to be said yet again: Many of us have earned these status items on main character or alt character, and since the guild hit level 60 some have saved them. We haven't farmed them, we haven't bought them, we simply have saved what we have earned by fighting the mobs. For non hard core guilds even the littlest of the items mean something.Yes it's sad that low level people would not be able contribute as much, but why ignore that high level people would not contribute as much as before either. If your guild is not raiding regularly (hands up, how many of you are in casual guilds, how many of you mostly solo) and most high level people are pretty much done with all of the HQs; well it only leaves grinding writs for them as well. Or maybe trying to out farm the farmers on the high level status items. I doubt either is exactly a good solution. Sympathy is always on the low level player's side, but think how this change would affect everyone.Stealth change is always bad, and this one particularly badly planned (if it was planned at all instead of it just being thrown into the mix). Make the status items no-drop, make them apply as looted - I don't mind, the change is welcomed. However, punishing everyone for something few guilds do is absurd and asinine.</blockquote>Again why is it that it always has to turn into a raider vs casual thing? If your guild has less than 40 members (hands up, how many of you are in a smaller guild, that does not rely on low level characters to work as status mules to raise the guilds level in hopes to earn a rank in the guild). See how easy it is to point fingers? Right now my "Raiding Guild" is not yet 60, but somehow your non-raiding guild is /gasp! Maybe some of those low level status sweatshop members you got in your guild snuck in a raid while their foreman had to go get a new whip.

BoriKitty

08-31-2007, 06:34 PM

We are 58 and now our lower members (mostly new) and all of our alts cannot contribute via this method. I think it's ridiculous considering how low the amount is that we are to be penalized because we are actually successful in doing HQ's, guild writs, tradeskill writs and adventure writs.Why not just make it no-trade and call it a day? That way you don't slap the lower level members for actually being welcome in a higher leveled guild.

Prrasha

08-31-2007, 06:35 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Prrasha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do exactly what you're saying you'll do. Then, add a new type of relics that give status when Looted, not when Turned In. </blockquote>Freliant suggested something like this, only his/her suggestion was for all status items to act that way, without the need for a new type of them.</blockquote>Ah. I thought it was too good of an idea for me to have thought of it first. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" />...Tough crowd.Anyway...<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore also wrote:</cite><blockquote>"[...] so that my lower level guildies are not restricted to ONLY writ & HQ grinding. I'd like to see them be able to to help our guild level, while they're out fighting mobs, if by no other method than by having all those status items process themselves immediately, just like language items currently do."</blockquote>Sorry, I wasn't wordy enough in my suggestion above. All new status dropped items will be of the insta-status-when-looted type; the existing hand-in items won't drop anymore.And they will all give status to guild, regardless of tier. So your lower-level guildies will be able to help your guild.They just won't be able to do it by stockpiling relics to turn in later when the guild level cap goes up.

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 06:56 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Well, lemme 'splain. First off. I WANT it to take as long as humanly possible for any guild, large or small to get to the cap. I feel that making progress towards level gives a guild a sense of cohesion and unity. Im all for a 3 million status per level requirement even.Having said that - with this change or no, a guild of our size will, in all liklihood, hit the cap in just a couple weeks, tops. Last time we did not hoard items and were second, I think, on our server to cap out. For the record, we have no coordinated "Stockpiling" going on that I am aware of. We simply have enough ppl to get the levels anyway. So why then, to answer your question, do I care about this? Because my guild bases ranks on amount of status contributed. Because I think the change is forcing players to writ grind. Because that writ grind will result in heavy competition in already limited writ areas. Because it hurts lower level players in my guild who cant legitimately loot status items, meaning the lvl 70's have a tool to advance the team that others dont. Because of the way it was rolled out. And because Im never in favor of limiting gameplay options. Should there be 2 ways to level your guild? or 3? Personally Id love to see them add a whole bunch of new ways to gain status, and increase the xp requirement. I hope that answers your question. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" </blockquote>So you think SoE is forcing your members to do writs when in actuality it is your guild's own rules that force them to churn out status in order to advance in rank. Somehow I have the ability to promote and demote members in my guild without a restriction such as status. I do not want to get into the rules of your guild and how you wish to run it is your business but you might want to not place blame on others that are hindering your own set of rules.Edited to the Whole StoryBecause my guild bases rank on amount of status contributed. Because I refuse to change, I force players to writ grind.</blockquote>First, please dont put words in my mouth. I never said "i refuse to change." I happen to be against THIS change. The two statements you quoted are mutually exclusive. (this means they are NOT related) I was listing many different reasons why I am against this. Even if I didnt base my ranks on status contributed, it STILL forces ALL GUILDS to writ grind in order to level. Or Status raid repetitively. Spend more time trying to understand the opinions of those who disagree with you and less time trying (and failing) to come up with witty retorts. You'll go further. I've been pretty respectful here, and I would hope you would do the same. I'd really rather not have the thread locked due to trolling. I respect your right to disagree with me. Again I hope you do the same. Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Lionidas

08-31-2007, 07:09 PM

I agree let's keep this civil and not a finger pointing mess that would cause the thread to lock. My side is that, with this change it will have minimal effect on a single low level character as many have already admitted. While at the same time have a larger effect on the guilds that either A) have a mass quantity of members at lower levels that turn in these items or B) the guilds that have enough money to purchase mass quantities of status items off the broker. To me, even with my low level characters I would like the change because the good outweighs the bad by a wide margin. Is there other solutions? Possibly, but for a guild to achieve status (fame, glory or recognition) it would be from work and not just killing a mob as they pass by it. I want the guild levels to mean something outside of money or sheer numbers. I want it to be that when my guild reaches the highest level they are not the 51st guild to reach it because others start recruiting off of the starter island. Do away with the items all together, make it so raid mobs don't give status, it doesn't matter. Just make it so it is not easy to get to the cap in 1 day.

Kaalenarc

08-31-2007, 07:22 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree let's keep this civil and not a finger pointing mess that would cause the thread to lock. My side is that, with this change it will have minimal effect on a single low level character as many have already admitted. While at the same time have a larger effect on the guilds that either A) have a mass quantity of members at lower levels that turn in these items or B) the guilds that have enough money to purchase mass quantities of status items off the broker. I understand where you're coming from, but I think your definitions of "low" and "high" guilds are off base. a level 20 player who loots an item in the normal course of adventuring cant apply it to his level 31 guild. Thats not right. It creates haves and have nots. I lead one of those teams that have a giant mass of members - we can certainly if we wanted - buy a ton of T8 items and level the guild quickly if we so choose. Given that possibility, this change, if intended to reduce leveling time, isnt effective. Heck - I can even sell off anything low and buy new stuff. Therefore the opinion that this will be a cure-all for hoarding status items, in my eyes, somewhat falls apart.Regardless of what methods the DEVs choose to level guilds, the ability to level your guild, in ALL ways should be open to ALL players. Two level 20 players - one in a level 20 guild the other in a level 35 guild - they each loot a status item - the player in the lower guild gets an advantage the other player doesnt. Not fair. To me, even with my low level characters I would like the change because the good outweighs the bad by a wide margin. Is there other solutions? Possibly, but for a guild to achieve status (fame, glory or recognition) it would be from work and not just killing a mob as they pass by it. I agree - but since the DEVs have proven they can tailor loot drops to class (like the class armor drops) Id presume they can also tailor it to level. In fact they already do, as killing grey mobs does not often give you loot other than quest items. Simply change them to not drop if greyed out. Or mentored if you want to take it to the extreme. That much IS doable - i can solo a lvl 21 epic on my level 70 but it wont drop anything - make it so that the items dont drop on greyed mobs - and a major part of the issue is solved. I want the guild levels to mean something outside of money or sheer numbers. I want it to be that when my guild reaches the highest level they are not the 51st guild to reach it because others start recruiting off of the starter island. Do away with the items all together, make it so raid mobs don't give status, it doesn't matter. Just make it so it is not easy to get to the cap in 1 day.I agree - I want them to mean something too. But I dont want them to mean "hooray - we made it to guild level 80 even though the DEVs hobbled our ability to do so. The DEVs solution is , imho, overly heavy handed, a "quick fix" that was not well thought out. There ARE other BETTER solutions to this, and im disapointed we havent had any meaningful DEV commentary so far. I dont want my guild to get level 80 in a week, but I also dont want half my guild to lose 1/3 of their ability to contribute.</blockquote>

far-Rider

08-31-2007, 07:43 PM

Speechless !!!Well, almost ... i shouldn't be surprised when it comes from same people that bought NGE to Star Wars Galaxies.

liveja

08-31-2007, 07:52 PM

<cite>Prrasha wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Sorry, I wasn't wordy enough in my suggestion above. All new status dropped items will be of the insta-status-when-looted type; the existing hand-in items won't drop anymore.And they will all give status to guild, regardless of tier.</blockquote>Works for me <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Deggials

08-31-2007, 07:57 PM

<cite>BoriKitty wrote:</cite><blockquote>We are 58 and now our lower members (mostly new) and all of our alts cannot contribute via this method. I think it's ridiculous considering how low the amount is that we are to be penalized because we are actually successful in doing HQ's, guild writs, tradeskill writs and adventure writs.Why not just make it no-trade and call it a day? That way you don't slap the lower level members for actually being welcome in a higher leveled guild.</blockquote>No-trade HURTS casual players as well as low-level crafters, make them all only give personal status or make the current ones no-trade and make us a new set of items that are tradeable that only give personal status, not everyone has 16+ hours to spend doing writs/hq or want to raise their adventure levels at present.

Dynaen

08-31-2007, 09:30 PM

The dumbest thing about this change, is that I guess devs failed to realize that any high level guild preparing to drop tons of status items at ROK release, are NOT GOING TO BE SAVING UP T2 STATUS ITEMS. You'd need half a stack of T2 items to equal a single T8 item. I somehow doubt you're going to see 70th level character preparing for ROK by farming Commondlands, Antonica, and GFay for status items. This is frankly one of the most worthless and pointless changes I've seen in quite some time.To those worried about guilds skyrocketing in levels, that was done BEFORE the flat 10% status to guild status method was put in. People would form a guild then kick everyone out while 1 person turned in bazillions of status items, that's why people were able to speed-level their guild from 1 to 60 in a day. It would be impossible with the 10% rule now.Anyways I'm pretty much speechless that something like this was thought to need a change versus all the other stuff out there that needs fixing.PS - If you really want to make a change, put a restriction on T6 status items, that'll hurt the plat farmers AEing Pillars of Flame all day long.

DMIstar

08-31-2007, 09:42 PM

If there was an indication they where going to Revaluate the guild lvl experience gaps per level, The items opened up per guild lvl (not per gap of guild lvls) and the full nine yards, I would agree with this change..But Im thinking this is just inspite of People getting guild a guild lvl when kunark releases due to those who took time to save up.... (which in turn if those lvls where available at this time, they would have already gotten ........................... Its not like time was not spent.I do agree with previouse posts.. this is only another hinderance on haveing lower lvl people in Guild.. Writs are way off the mark on Guild xp giveing.. Those are so redunant its sad. If it wasnt for getting Guild XP on raids mobs. Most gulids would not even be far to being maxed. I guess the next stealth thing will deal with something like this on collection quests....

Cuz

08-31-2007, 09:52 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>To me, even with my low level characters I would like the change because the good outweighs the bad by a wide margin. Is there other solutions? Possibly, but for a guild to achieve status (fame, glory or recognition) it would be from work and not just killing a mob as they pass by it. </blockquote>When I get loot items = randomly killing mobs for quest or in random groups.When I finish adv writs = randomly in a zone doing quests so might as well grab one.When I finish work on HQs = randomly in a zone doing quests and quest mobs are up, or group mates just randomly invite me.When I finiwh crafting writs = I randomly get bored of hunting mobs and want to craft.So pretty much 3 of 4, in my opinion, is killing a mob as I pass by, and the last one is because I'm bored of passing by mobs. Honestly if you think any of them is actual work, well I don't get it...Another thing, what are the good and bad of this change? Sure I find it's cheap that guilds can just buy their levels, but at the same time they probably put as much work getting money to buy the items as I'd be putting to get status any other way. I've never actually seen or at the very least notice a level 70 farming lower level areas for status items. So I wouldn't classify that as an issue I'd care to see them fix. If they implement this change level 60 guilds can just buy a ton of T7 status, power level to 70. Possibly even 80, don't we already have T8 status items? So really the only thing that's gonna change is that plat farming groups (with intent to sell for RL money) can just raise their prices to stupid amounts for the same products.

Laenai

08-31-2007, 09:53 PM

Okay, so I haven't read every post in this thread, but I'm sure the majority of it is saying all the same thing over and over again.With RoK (and any expansion I would imagine) a looming desire to attract totally new players to the game has got to be a large part of SoE's plan for the expansion. Joe Newbie (or Jane Newbie) coming into game has a large variety of guilds to choose from. They'll want to help in any way possible to further their guild's progress. T2 writs don't contribute an awful lot...and neither do T2 status items. However, they contribute SOMETHING no matter how small and give the player- whether new or an alt- a feeling of pride in being able to assist even the highest level guilds.

Tenchisama

08-31-2007, 10:14 PM

The changes as posted are a step in the wrong direction.... or a knee jerk reaction to a problem that is not understood properly.... 1) You have effectively stratified EVERY guild into having to have members only in a certain level range if they are to contribute in that item drop manner - in fact - you will make top end contribution items worth more BECAUSE they can be used - while bottom end will only slowly go to new guilds who will have use of it for a few weeks.... 2) The purpose to prevent guilds from dinging right away - hmmm - you have had this system in place as it is for lvls 1 - 60 for guilds.... how can you NOT know how it works? if needs be just make the contribution items NO DROP - duh then if folks want to store em - fine whatever - but they wont be able to trade/sell/stockpile in the same manner that they once could. 3) OR - now here is a leap for you - please do not fall off or close your mind - OR you get your brain working and listen carefully I will try to make this clear - IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT A GUILD DINGING FAST IN THIS LAST TIER - make all previous contribution items work for ALL TIERS PRIOR...omg what a concept.I am sorry if I sound jaded, or come off as being a jerk or a smartarse - but really - there are SIMPLE - EASY - MORE MEANINGFUL solutions...please try to find them instead of implementing rushed poorly conceived fixes that dont even truly address the problem.That is all....

Lord Eggnopol

08-31-2007, 10:17 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is simply penalizing people because they had the good sense to plan. Worse, it's penalizing a large faction of the population because some people had the good sense to plan.</blockquote>I agree 100%

Dasein

08-31-2007, 10:29 PM

<cite>Lord Eggnopolis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is simply penalizing people because they had the good sense to plan. Worse, it's penalizing a large faction of the population because some people had the good sense to plan.</blockquote>I agree 100%</blockquote>It's not planning, it's gambling that the mechanics will stay the same. Anyone who's followed the mechanics of guild levelling knows that there have been many revisions to the system, so it's not unreasonable to think it might change. So, some people gambled and lost. It happens.

Kenazeer

08-31-2007, 11:01 PM

There are no other mechanisms that as effectively allow a person/guild to "store" experience in advance of the levels going up. Sure a person can save up quest turn ins and such, but there is a ceiling in that there are only going to be a certain number of quests which will be green and for which this will work. One could mentor down and complete otherwise grey quests, but these would not be a great source of experience. There is a limit on how many status items a guild could bank, but it is only capped by the hours they want to put in, or the plat they want to spend. There is a reason, after all, that we stop earning experience once we get to the cap.

Kaalenarc

09-01-2007, 12:20 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lord Eggnopolis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is simply penalizing people because they had the good sense to plan. Worse, it's penalizing a large faction of the population because some people had the good sense to plan.</blockquote>I agree 100%</blockquote>It's not planning, it's gambling that the mechanics will stay the same. Anyone who's followed the mechanics of guild levelling knows that there have been many revisions to the system, so it's not unreasonable to think it might change. So, some people gambled and lost. It happens. </blockquote>Doesnt make it right.

Vonotar

09-01-2007, 07:27 AM

Before this change, anybody could contribute using status items, writs, hq's, killing raid epics After the change, status items will be linked to guild level, if the status items are sub par for the guild level they won't contribute to the guild."Go do some writs" thats all I hear...So what about if they did the same to writs as well?You could argue... why should a level 20, completing a level 20 writ, be worth progressing a level 60 guild?Where does this end?...Cue slippery slope!!

Megumiko01

09-01-2007, 09:36 AM

Here's my question: "Why make this change at all?"Yes, I know there's a concern about some guilds power leveling their guild from 60 to 80 within a few days of RoK launch. But: 1) That'll happen anyway. Any big guild can foot enough people to do writs (tradeskill and otherwise) to achieve the same thing in the same amount of time.2) Why do the devs (or even other players) care if that happens anyway? Are these guilds still playing the game and paying Sony money? Are they going to leave immediately afterwards? 3) Is the reward for hitting 80th level so very uber that it can't be gotten within a few days of RoK launch? So game breakingly unbalanced as to be unfair to the other players if achieved in a few days? (If it is that uber, why the heck is it being added anyway?)4) Why change something so drastically that's obviously worked for the better part of a year? This is not changing the guild system to make it better and more player friendly (like they did with tradeskills, I understand.) 5) Why penalize the majority of people for the actions of a small number of people? 6) Who does it hurt? No one or nothing but the devs' idea of how long a guild should take to level.Now, please understand my view point: I am not in an uber guild. We have five active players and we've all worked very hard to get the levels our guild has attained since January 2007. Every little bit helps. Why don't we recruit? Because we don't want to. We like our little group of friends. And there's something to be said about getting 27 guild levels with just 5 people.Why don't we pass down 20th level and up status items to our lower alts? Why should I have to spend money with my main on something my alt should be able to do for himself? And yes, lower characters should be able to turn in status items of their level and be able to gain guild status for their guild, no matter the guild level.So you'd think I'd be one of those screaming at the uber guilds about playing foul. But I honestly could care less what they do to get their guild levels. To each their own.So again I ask why care who gets guild level 80 really quickly after the RoK launch? I don't. And neither should anyone else.Please cancel this change to status items and let people enjoy your game.

Kizee

09-01-2007, 11:10 AM

I didn't read this whole thread but does it really matter? SoE has never added anything worth wild for capped guilds anyways. What is the rush to get there?

Arbreth

09-01-2007, 12:12 PM

Wow---28 pages in two days...I hope the person who came up with this is writhing in wet noodles spiced with fire ants.I read the first 13 pages yesterday, and the last page today, the tone has not changed, so I assume neither has the problem, therefore my observations.This will not affect the accumulation of personal status, only status to the guild. Personally, I would be more bothered if it affected the personal status, though me and mine do enjoy turning these in for the guild. My guild does not go by contributed status to determine rankings or worth, as we are casual (and currently capped), though when the level is raised, I would like ALL of my folk to feel like they are helping in any way. I know that there are plenty of guilds that do use those numbers and it would be extremely unfair to their younger folk to not have the same ability to prove their worth in the same manner as the rest of their guild mates.This will make lower level characters unpopular again. I have seen this before, in which case send 'em over, the poor refugees. The higher leveled folk in my guild tend to spend a lot of time mentored down and grouped with our lower leveled mates. So we will not be bringing home the more expensive items anyway <shrugs> But, I cannot believe that a guild would be so petty as to kick out, or refuse lower level characters because when they turn in a Coral Amulet the guild gets nothing from it.This will stop 'farming' and hoarding. Pfft, it will only move the professional farmers to ever higher tiers, and when was the last time you saw any one farming these things at the tiers that would be most affected? Though, in my mind, the writs smack awful hard of 'farming' as you have to do them repeatedly and numbingly often for the little bit of status they offer for the guild. I loathe writs, I despise grinding. I only do them so I can pay my rent. What is wrong with saving these for when the cap is raised anyway? Perhaps folk do not mind taking up their own space. I know I don't care if they have no room in the bank.Some folks think accumulating these is not 'work'. <shakes head> How do you think these things appear anyway? There is some effort involved, perhaps, say, by killing the mob holding them? Last time I checked that was included under the term of work. If they are bought? Well the coin has to come from somewhere as well, unless Conjurers learned a new trick? Hmmm... I know, it's a new Tinkerer recipe! 'Gold from straw'! Dang, got to harvest the straw first, then make the gold, nah that's work.Have them as 'no-trade'? Hrm... Well no trade is better than no worth, but I do see why this would also be unpopular as I sometimes pass them off to other folk for a myriad of reasons. But if the point was to get them off the broker this would work faster than ticking off your player base. Make them insta-loot? <sigh> call me old fashioned, but I like seeing what I got when the mobs pockets were rifled. Unless you were going to add to the conning of the critter that this will offer such and so status to the following factions? In which case just offer a quest for them. Oh, wait, we already do that, it's called a writ!Turning in saved stacks will power level a guild within days of launch. Yikes, and just how many of these things would one need anyway? How many of the lower level ones would folk be stashing away to do this with? Yes, I know it affects all the items, but this hurts the middle tier guilds more than the older or very young, in which case I highly doubt a younger guild is stashing them.We should have been told. Yes, then all this outrage could have started sooner <grins>.Why bother with this change? Good question, what is the point anyway?As it has taken me a better part of the morning to write this (RL tends to intrude just a bit & just imagine that I may have tried to NOT garner as many flames for once) I hope someone sensible has changed it back.

Dasein

09-01-2007, 02:08 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lord Eggnopolis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is simply penalizing people because they had the good sense to plan. Worse, it's penalizing a large faction of the population because some people had the good sense to plan.</blockquote>I agree 100%</blockquote>It's not planning, it's gambling that the mechanics will stay the same. Anyone who's followed the mechanics of guild levelling knows that there have been many revisions to the system, so it's not unreasonable to think it might change. So, some people gambled and lost. It happens. </blockquote>Doesnt make it right.</blockquote>How is this change any less right than the change to allowing all guild members to contribute a flat 10% status, regarldess of guild size? How aout the changes with the patron system many years back? You seem to forget that these games change, and we've seen many past examples of guild levelling mechanics changing. Should we revert to the days of 12 patrons and status decay? After all, for those guilds who made decisions based on those assumptions, any change away form that mechanic would be wrong by your logic?

Devilsbane

09-01-2007, 02:35 PM

Finally I have a bit of reference material in regards to Guild Status. Let me thank The Rising Dawn for their help and apologize to Cool Cats. Originally Cool Cats would have gotten the guild status. The server rollback unguilded my character. <img src="http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4607/eq2000070oj6.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="1280" height="1024" /><img src="http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9131/eq2000071br0.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="1280" height="1024" />Now this means 13K guild status equals 2.375% of guild level 54. So it takes 547K guild status (5.5 Million personal status) between guild level 54 to 55. So how many status items would that take? It would take about 8.4K T7 (421 stacks total). If a T7 status item drops in a ratio of 1:5 NPC kills. It would take 42.5K NPCs to acquire enough status items just for one level. If the amount of Guild Status to achieve the next guild level never increased. That means a guild would need around 168K T7 status items (8.4K stacks) on the day of the launch of RoK. It is impossible for a guild to hoard enough status items to make guild level 80 the day RoK is released. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The change to status needs to be reversed it will not have the effect that was intended.

Kaalenarc

09-01-2007, 05:20 PM

I really wish theyd just roll this back and not put it on live.

TaleraRis

09-01-2007, 06:16 PM

I can't say I like this change, either. It seems poorly thought out and there are a number of other options available to SoE if the intent is to control how fast guilds can reach the new level cap. Since we haven't seen an official reason, then this assumption is all we have to work off. So I'll go through a few options I've seen, and one of my own that I saw brought up as a consideration. Status items insta-looting I would have to say no on this one. Not because I think it's a bad idea. In fact, I think that it's a worthwhile idea. However, if Joe Newbie who just started the game is out hunting and happens across one of these items, the text points him toward a writ giver. He may or may not have known about writ givers or the whole writ process. I wouldn't want to lose that by having the items insta-loot. Status items linked to character levelI would say this is one facet of things they should change. Make status items linked to a range of a character level. This would both mean that lower level characters in a higher level guild can still contribute those status items they may have gotten doing writs in the first place (that's for the "go do writs" response) and it would also mean that lower level characters wouldn't be able to buy up higher level status items to power up low level guilds, either. It wouldn't mean they never could, and perhaps the text could even be changed to say that once they reach level X it will be able to be turned in for status. They can use the same range they've intended by this change for when a status item will give guild status and when it won't. Status items being no-tradeI think this is a good idea. However, I also agree with the point that was brought up about low level crafters. Making adventure-gained status items no-trade creates an imbalance in the way that crafters can contribute versus the way that adventurers can contribute. So that should certainly be addressed. It may be possible to have harvested status items, that come along with regular harvests and to assure they're crafter-only, make them only harvested by crafters who are the level of the materials they're harvesting. This also wouldn't clutter up inventories for those who are only out harvesting and are not crafters.Limitations on status contributed a dayThis is one of the fairest things they can implement, IMO. As some have said, some members in higher level guilds have these status items because they have been collecting them. We can't assume everyone who has tons of status items bought them. So they should gain some benefit from thinking ahead. But if SoE wants to limit the speed of how these items effect the guild, institute a cap of status per day on status items. Find an amount of status they think would be reasonable for someone to gain in a day, even add a little to give a buffer, and make that the highest amount that status items will give. If it's too low, I'm sure players will let SoE know. Guild waypoints This would be something much harder to implement given the broad spectrum of guilds, but it at least deserves some consideration. If they want to control how fast a guild can level, why not implement waypoints that have to be passed in addition to certain amounts of status that must be collected? As I said, determining what sort of guild waypoints there should be would be very difficult. You can't say that a guild that has x people that do this quest is a waypoint, because guild populations are different. You can't say that the waypoint should be linked to a raid, or to groups or to solo, because there are all sort of playstyles in guilds out there. There's the possibility of tailoring things to active guild population, or having different "tiers" of waypoints but again, the idea wouldn't be easy to implement. It *is* an option to consider, however. I would be eager to hear the explanation of this change. As I said, we're all working on one assumption. It's possible that SoE has another they're basing this on. So some feedback would be appreciated.

lils

09-02-2007, 01:53 AM

Well I have to admit I didn't read all the 28 pages, so I may be saying things that have been said already.But in the name of my guild mates I feel I have to post and I have to say this isn't really a good idea. We are one of the biggest guilds in game and we have a lot of young and new members. Members that are low levels because they enjoy exploring and having fun instead of grinding. They all look forward to be able too contribute to the guild. While we were the first level 60 guild on the server. I have to say it wasn't easy and it took a LOT of work. Of course we had people that had collected their SP items to turn them in. But the amount of SPs you get for them is very small (especially the lower level ones). When we levelled the guild from 50 to 60, that took us 5,299,162 Guild Sps (52,991,162 personnal SPs) our highest contribution by a member was 294 306 status points, which equals about 0.05 % of the whole amount. This means that member made a rough 3 Million Personnal SPs. Now lets see ... by turning in mid tier SP items ... he would have had to turn in 10,000 SP items (the 300 point ones) or 15,000 (the 200 point ones) . ... those usually sell for around 1 gold a piece ... that means he would have had to spend 100-150 Platinum for that ... and he would have needed 500-750 slots to stack all those items. So to level the guild from 50 to 60 ... if we would have wanted to do that with SP items alone (still based on mid tier ones, that would have needed over 170'000 SP items ... equalling 1700 Platinum and room for 8500 Slots. I am sure it will take us a LOT more SPs to level the guild from 60 to 80 ... so those numbers could probably be multiplied by several.Anyway considering that a Heritage Quest brings between 30000-40000 points .. and a City Task about 2000-6000 points. That member would have for sure been faster to work on those. Or organize a raid where 24 people get SPs all at once not to mention a lot cheaper. We ended up mixing it all. We had lower level members and higher level members contributing equally. doing raids, doing Heritage Quests, doing City Tasks, Tradeskill Tasks and of course turned in SP items. And our members were VERY motivated because they all worked for the same goal. It didn't matter how much someone turned in. But that people were able to contribute no matter what level. Excluding low level from that by not letting them turn in their SP items will not really add to the moral and will in the end hurt all guilds. Running a guild is a lot of work, and to make feel members valued in a guild is an important part in this. For this I would like to put my vote and the vote of my guild in to ask that this can be reconsidered.Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://www.lili-s.com/liefjesmall.gif" border="0" alt="" width="360" height="139" />

Kaalenarc

09-02-2007, 12:49 PM

OK NOW can I say its been over three days , 29 pages of posts and STILL absolutely no meaningful DEV response to this issue?

Dasein

09-02-2007, 02:49 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote> OK NOW can I say its been over three days , 29 pages of posts and STILL absolutely no meaningful DEV response to this issue?</blockquote>Perhaps because it's a holiday weekend? Relax a bit, go out and enjoy the last holiday of the summer.

Erithe

09-02-2007, 06:20 PM

It's pretty obvious that this change harms smaller, low level guilds in a major way. It makes lower level players unable to contribute even in that small way to their guilds and makes it a lot harder for lower level guilds to grow. There's no good reason to penalize these particular folk. I definitely agree with the idea that these items should be made No Trade. To restrict levels as they've done simply doesn't work.

Dasein

09-02-2007, 06:55 PM

<cite>Erithe wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty obvious that this change harms smaller, low level guilds in a major way. It makes lower level players unable to contribute even in that small way to their guilds and makes it a lot harder for lower level guilds to grow. There's no good reason to penalize these particular folk. I definitely agree with the idea that these items should be made No Trade. To restrict levels as they've done simply doesn't work.</blockquote>No, it really doesn't penalize them at all. Lower level guilds can turn in a greater range of status items than higher level guilds. Lower level players can do writs and HQs, too, and the contribution of even a single set of level 30 writs (one from each faction) will equal dozens of status item turn-ins.

Armawk

09-02-2007, 08:01 PM

Kaalenarc

09-03-2007, 01:42 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote> OK NOW can I say its been over three days , 29 pages of posts and STILL absolutely no meaningful DEV response to this issue?</blockquote>Perhaps because it's a holiday weekend? Relax a bit, go out and enjoy the last holiday of the summer.</blockquote>Im perfectly relaxed. but, um thanks for that weird post. LOL

Vonotar

09-03-2007, 06:34 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Erithe wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty obvious that this change harms smaller, low level guilds in a major way. It makes lower level players unable to contribute even in that small way to their guilds and makes it a lot harder for lower level guilds to grow. There's no good reason to penalize these particular folk. I definitely agree with the idea that these items should be made No Trade. To restrict levels as they've done simply doesn't work.</blockquote>No, it really doesn't penalize them at all. Lower level guilds can turn in a greater range of status items than higher level guilds. Lower level players can do writs and HQs, too, and the contribution of even a single set of level 30 writs (one from each faction) will equal dozens of status item turn-ins. </blockquote>I call Liar on this statementIn our own level 23 guild, members would be unable to turn in the bottom two tiers of items (which can only be turned in by guilds less than level 10, or less than level 20).Which maybe fine for our level 30+ members, but we have a lot of members in their teens. Sometimes we take very low level new members on a Blackburrow run, with the sole intention of 'farming' enough status items for them to make a small contribution to the guild. It's simply a test of whether they turn in the items or run off with them (we explain what they are for and where to turn them in).So to claim that lower level guilds will not be penalised is inaccurate at best, a blatant lie at worst.I agree that writs are worth far more than status items, but this is the case at all levels so it is totally irrelevant to the situation. The issue is that two virtually identical players would be treated differently just because one chose a high level guild, and the other choose a low level guild.If a change has to be made, then I suggest one of the following:1. Turn-in of items is linked to the players level and not the guild level, i.e. a level 19 player can hand in the lower tier items regardless of the guilds level.2. Make status items No-Trade3. Make status items automatically turn-in on looting (i.e. after you have won the item).4. Scrap status items altogether

Peysel

09-03-2007, 07:12 AM

This change is very unfair to low level players in guilds with ranking systems like ours that prefer to gain status via adventure rather than the grinding of writs and hq's. We don't believe in shoving Writs and HQ's down our members throats, but since our Casual Guild is Level 55 and the rankings are determined by status what choice would our low level friends have? Unless we changed the ranking system to a Cliquish type one, which I find quite distasteful. Everyone should be allowed to contribute to their guild as they and their guild see fit, and I'm wondering just how much this is going to hurt those guilds already wounded from the majority of their memberships leaving to play Vanguard and LOTRO.Dig the knife in a little deeper...

bigsigh

09-03-2007, 08:26 AM

This has no doubt been suggested, but .....why not just limit the amount of GUILD status that can be accrued in a day? Any status over the limit would just hang around and be applied the next day.Does this not solve both sides of the problem?

Echgar

09-04-2007, 11:10 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I call Liar on this statement</blockquote>Let's allow other posters to state their opinion without namecalling please. If you want to disagree with something another poster feel free to do so, but do not let your disagreement get to the point where you are personally attacking, insulting, or namecalling others. When posts get personal, it has a nasty tendency of derailing a thread and turning it into a flamewar. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Dasein

09-04-2007, 11:39 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Erithe wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty obvious that this change harms smaller, low level guilds in a major way. It makes lower level players unable to contribute even in that small way to their guilds and makes it a lot harder for lower level guilds to grow. There's no good reason to penalize these particular folk. I definitely agree with the idea that these items should be made No Trade. To restrict levels as they've done simply doesn't work.</blockquote>No, it really doesn't penalize them at all. Lower level guilds can turn in a greater range of status items than higher level guilds. Lower level players can do writs and HQs, too, and the contribution of even a single set of level 30 writs (one from each faction) will equal dozens of status item turn-ins. </blockquote>I call Liar on this statementIn our own level 23 guild, members would be unable to turn in the bottom two tiers of items (which can only be turned in by guilds less than level 10, or less than level 20).Which maybe fine for our level 30+ members, but we have a lot of members in their teens. Sometimes we take very low level new members on a Blackburrow run, with the sole intention of 'farming' enough status items for them to make a small contribution to the guild. It's simply a test of whether they turn in the items or run off with them (we explain what they are for and where to turn them in).So to claim that lower level guilds will not be penalised is inaccurate at best, a blatant lie at worst.I agree that writs are worth far more than status items, but this is the case at all levels so it is totally irrelevant to the situation. The issue is that two virtually identical players would be treated differently just because one chose a high level guild, and the other choose a low level guild.If a change has to be made, then I suggest one of the following:1. Turn-in of items is linked to the players level and not the guild level, i.e. a level 19 player can hand in the lower tier items regardless of the guilds level.2. Make status items No-Trade3. Make status items automatically turn-in on looting (i.e. after you have won the item).4. Scrap status items altogether</blockquote>Actually, for a guild at level 23, mobs in the 20-29 range (T3) would be the lowest level you could use. Now, those people you take on occasional BB runs won't be in their teens for very long - even for a casual player, the sub-20 levels go by very fast. Pretty soon, those people you're taking to BB will be heading to Stormhold, Fallen Gate, Crushbone and Varsoons, where they'll be getting T3 and T4 status items which they can contribute. Furthermroe, I believe there are writs for BB, so instead of taking them on status farming runs, why not take them on a writ run? It will get you more status overall, while still giving you a chance to do things with your lower level guildmates? I have a question - fpr those who are so up in arms about this change, were you in a guild during the days of patrons and status decay? Did you play when most guilds only allowed 12 people to contribute status at all?

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 11:53 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Actually, for a guild at level 23, mobs in the 20-29 range (T3) would be the lowest level you could use. Now, those people you take on occasional BB runs won't be in their teens for very long - even for a casual player, the sub-20 levels go by very fast. Pretty soon, those people you're taking to BB will be heading to Stormhold, Fallen Gate, Crushbone and Varsoons, where they'll be getting T3 and T4 status items which they can contribute. Furthermroe, I believe there are writs for BB, so instead of taking them on status farming runs, why not take them on a writ run? It will get you more status overall, while still giving you a chance to do things with your lower level guildmates? I have a question - fpr those who are so up in arms about this change, were you in a guild during the days of patrons and status decay? Did you play when most guilds only allowed 12 people to contribute status at all?</blockquote>No I wasn't, and perhaps that is part of the issue. I'm not used to the idea that only an elite core of members can contribute towards the guild.This status item change is IMHO a move back towards that sort of elitism, and I don't consider that to be for the betterment of the game.As for 'outgrowing BB' I think your missing the point, when our guild reaches level 30 that will 'grey out' another tier of status items for our members, same again at level 40, 50 etc.If a level 20 Status Item should be considered of no value to the 'status' of a level 50 guild, then why should a level 20 writ be considered of value either? My level 13 turned in a writ the other day and got a huge 83 guild status points WOOO.So we might as well tie those to guild level too. 10-19 writs should only contribute towards guilds less than level 20. 20-29 should only contribute to guilds less than level 30.What? you don't like that idea? they can still do HQ's ya know!Actually why not extend this to HQ's too <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> why should completing a level 17 dwarven ringmail HQ really contribute anything to a level 50+ guild.Can you give an argument as to why Status Items should be treated as a separate case? There isn't one, its a bandage over a perceived problem with level 60 guilds.If you want to flog a level 60 guild for attempting to trivialise leveling up, fine, but do you really need to hurt all the other guilds at the same time??

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 11:55 AM

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I call Liar on this statement</blockquote>Let's allow other posters to state their opinion without namecalling please. If you want to disagree with something another poster feel free to do so, but do not let your disagreement get to the point where you are personally attacking, insulting, or namecalling others. When posts get personal, it has a nasty tendency of derailing a thread and turning it into a flamewar. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I apologise for any distress, but I was referring to the factual incorrectness of the statementHowever I humbly apologise for any misunderstanding.

Kenazeer

09-04-2007, 01:50 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Finally I have a bit of reference material in regards to Guild Status. Let me thank The Rising Dawn for their help and apologize to Cool Cats. Originally Cool Cats would have gotten the guild status. The server rollback unguilded my character. Now this means 13K guild status equals 2.375% of guild level 54. So it takes 547K guild status (5.5 Million personal status) between guild level 54 to 55. So how many status items would that take? It would take about 8.4K T7 (421 stacks total). If a T7 status item drops in a ratio of 1:5 NPC kills. It would take 42.5K NPCs to acquire enough status items just for one level. If the amount of Guild Status to achieve the next guild level never increased. That means a guild would need around 168K T7 status items (8.4K stacks) on the day of the launch of RoK. It is impossible for a guild to hoard enough status items to make guild level 80 the day RoK is released. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The change to status needs to be reversed it will not have the effect that was intended.</blockquote>It may be hard, but I think you are overstepping by saying it is impossible.Go check out the discovery dates on the level 60 war barded horses, as someone suggested in another thread....read these GU notes....then come back please and tell us how it is so impossible to do.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253135" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253135</a>This was also the time the status per member changed to a flat 10%.

Krokous

09-04-2007, 02:00 PM

<cite>Xunen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dogmae wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe they want to make guild levels mean something with Kunark. With all the current status items available guilds could get a nice jump on the competition. This change will put everybody on equal footing for RoK.</blockquote>You can't make that equal for everyone. Or do they remove all Master Spells and Fabled gear that people geared up to prepare for RoK? No, so it's not equal. People who raid will get to Guildlevel 80 faster because they have better gear and better spell quality and therefore be able to do city tasks faster than others. And people who farm Status Loot in their spare time (you know, the time what you pay 15 bucks for per month) also have an advantage, as the raiders do. So please stop all the whining about equality, because IMO all this is equal, since everyone could gear up as the raiders did, and everyone could save Status Loot as many did.</blockquote>omg lol dont worry, i was member of few "hardcore raid guilds" and i tell you: ppl in full fabled dont do stwopid writs

Devilsbane

09-04-2007, 02:28 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><clears throat>Did you bother to look up the discovery dates before you posted that?Go check out the discovery dates....read these GU notes....then come back please and tell us how it is so impossible to do.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253135" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253135</a>This was also the time the status per member changed to a flat 10%. </blockquote>How is what impossible to do? Make Guild level 80 from status items? Yes it is impossible! The Mod Squad did not turn in hundreds of thousands of status items to get those discoveries. Just like everyone else they mostly likely made Guild Level 60 from Guild Writ Raids, HQs, Writs, and Status Items (from most status to least respectively). Look the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/guilds/guild_profile.vm?guildId=185106" target="_blank">Mob Squad</a> have about enough characters for three full Guild Writ Raid forces. That tells me about 33% of their Guild levels from 50 to 60 came directly for Guild Writ Raids.

Kaalenarc

09-04-2007, 02:30 PM

Really wish we could have a DEV dialogue on this. But evidently we arent going to get it. It looks like this will be pushed through whether its wanted or not. And regardless of whether you are for the change, or against it, the way its (possibly) going to be rolled out, without any discussion of the community, does not bode well for the player base. Disapointing. What will they do when the 30 page In Testing thread becomes a 200 page thread in Gameplay Discussion? I hope Im proven wrong, and a DEV pops in and spends a few posts actually talking about WHY they are doing this, WHAT the intended goal is and if they are listening to the community. I know they are swamped with RoK prep - but really - can you guys spare 30 min to talk about this? post a poll? something...?

Belgue

09-04-2007, 02:41 PM

Amazing change <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />No more Insta ding - ding - ding - ding... - woot, we are lvl 80 now

Kenazeer

09-04-2007, 02:44 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><clears throat>Did you bother to look up the discovery dates before you posted that?Go check out the discovery dates....read these GU notes....then come back please and tell us how it is so impossible to do.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253135" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253135</a>This was also the time the status per member changed to a flat 10%. </blockquote>How is what impossible to do? Make Guild level 80 from status items? Yes it is impossible! The Mod Squad did not turn in hundreds of thousands of status items to get those discoveries. Just like everyone else they mostly likely made Guild Level 60 from Guild Writ Raids, HQs, Writs, and Status Items (from most status to least respectively). Look the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/guilds/guild_profile.vm?guildId=185106" target="_blank">Mob Squad</a> have about enough characters for three full Guild Writ Raid forces. That tells me about 33% of their Guild levels from 50 to 60 came directly for Guild Writ Raids.</blockquote>Once again I ask. Did you bother to look at the dates?EoF live 11-14. So say with patching the servers came up around 4 pm on 11-14. The horses were discoed on 11-15, the very next calendar day. No sooner than 8 hours (more or less) and no longer than 32 hours there was a level 60 guild. With raid lockouts, writ times, and such please explain this. The order was more than likely status items>>HQs>>writs>>>>raids

AdamWest007

09-04-2007, 03:35 PM

30 pages of mostly "don't do this" posts in 5 days is all you need to know about (a) the large amount of ppl that have been hording these items, and (b) the exact reason they are making this change.

Finora

09-04-2007, 04:00 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a question - fpr those who are so up in arms about this change, were you in a guild during the days of patrons and status decay? Did you play when most guilds only allowed 12 people to contribute status at all?</blockquote>No I wasn't, and perhaps that is part of the issue. I'm not used to the idea that only an elite core of members can contribute towards the guild.This status item change is IMHO a move back towards that sort of elitism, and I don't consider that to be for the betterment of the game.(deleted a bunch of stuff I wasn't going to comment on to save space)Can you give an argument as to why Status Items should be treated as a separate case? There isn't one, its a bandage over a perceived problem with level 60 guilds.If you want to flog a level 60 guild for attempting to trivialise leveling up, fine, but do you really need to hurt all the other guilds at the same time??</blockquote>I was around for the patron system and when guild numbers affected the amound of status you contributed etc etc. I still think the change to status items is poorly implemented.Punishing lower level guilds and lower level guild members for some perceived problem with lvl 60 guilds insta leveling is a bad idea. If the level 60 guild leveling to 80 super fast is the issue, there are other ways they could handle it that wouldn't be as detrimental to non-60 guilds and lower level guild members (I mentioned in another post in this thread and don't want to repeat myself). In anycase, limiting the level of status items to be in line with guild level doesn't change anything with people hording and handing in status items. It just means they horde t7 status items, which are better status by far anyway, so they'll need even fewer of them to get to 80. The change makes no sense. I'll admit I have some stuffed in my bank. I have more status than I can find ways to spend so have zero need to hand them in now and don't think they should be items that can be sold so I don't sell them. Mostly the highest level ones (since I'm 70) so the change doesn't affect me, I could hand them in just the same anyway. Some guildmates I have in the 20-50 range aren't so lucky. Any they get will be useless for helping the guild (thank goodness they'll still get some personal status from them though).

Dasein

09-04-2007, 04:36 PM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a question - fpr those who are so up in arms about this change, were you in a guild during the days of patrons and status decay? Did you play when most guilds only allowed 12 people to contribute status at all?</blockquote>No I wasn't, and perhaps that is part of the issue. I'm not used to the idea that only an elite core of members can contribute towards the guild.This status item change is IMHO a move back towards that sort of elitism, and I don't consider that to be for the betterment of the game.(deleted a bunch of stuff I wasn't going to comment on to save space)Can you give an argument as to why Status Items should be treated as a separate case? There isn't one, its a bandage over a perceived problem with level 60 guilds.If you want to flog a level 60 guild for attempting to trivialise leveling up, fine, but do you really need to hurt all the other guilds at the same time??</blockquote>I was around for the patron system and when guild numbers affected the amound of status you contributed etc etc. I still think the change to status items is poorly implemented.Punishing lower level guilds and lower level guild members for some perceived problem with lvl 60 guilds insta leveling is a bad idea. </blockquote>Lower level guilds fare better than higher level guilds. A level 20 guild will feel the effect of the change far less than a level 60 guild will. Lower level players are only hurt if they're in a higher level guild. A level 30 player in a level 20 guild will be virtually unaffected by the change, while a level 30 player in a level 60 guild will be impacted a bit more. I would appreciate it if people could be honest about exactly who will be impacted by this change. Stating all lower level players will be affected is untrue.

Kaalenarc

09-04-2007, 04:56 PM

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>30 pages of mostly "don't do this" posts in 5 days is all you need to know about (a) the large amount of ppl that have been hording these items, and (b) the exact reason they are making this change.</blockquote>Actually, no, all it tells you is that people disagree with the change. Nothing more. I personally am completely against it and have not stored any status items (excepting whatever random ones are currently in my inv from the natural course of adventuring) And furthermore -since SOE has made absolutely ZERO statements about the motivations behind their decision to make the change, you really cant assume the reason why either. Doing so is nothing more than broad speculation on your part. Sorry Adam , but knee-jerk, all encompassing statements like that are really not particularly accurate.

Kaalenarc

09-04-2007, 04:57 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a question - fpr those who are so up in arms about this change, were you in a guild during the days of patrons and status decay? Did you play when most guilds only allowed 12 people to contribute status at all?</blockquote>No I wasn't, and perhaps that is part of the issue. I'm not used to the idea that only an elite core of members can contribute towards the guild.This status item change is IMHO a move back towards that sort of elitism, and I don't consider that to be for the betterment of the game.(deleted a bunch of stuff I wasn't going to comment on to save space)Can you give an argument as to why Status Items should be treated as a separate case? There isn't one, its a bandage over a perceived problem with level 60 guilds.If you want to flog a level 60 guild for attempting to trivialise leveling up, fine, but do you really need to hurt all the other guilds at the same time??</blockquote>I was around for the patron system and when guild numbers affected the amound of status you contributed etc etc. I still think the change to status items is poorly implemented.Punishing lower level guilds and lower level guild members for some perceived problem with lvl 60 guilds insta leveling is a bad idea. </blockquote>Lower level guilds fare better than higher level guilds. A level 20 guild will feel the effect of the change far less than a level 60 guild will. Lower level players are only hurt if they're in a higher level guild. A level 30 player in a level 20 guild will be virtually unaffected by the change, while a level 30 player in a level 60 guild will be impacted a bit more. I would appreciate it if people could be honest about exactly who will be impacted by this change. Stating all lower level players will be affected is untrue.</blockquote>Correct. It should be "All lower level players in guilds with levels higher than their own by at least one tier."Which, I might add, is a significant portion of the playerbase

Lionidas

09-04-2007, 05:02 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Really wish we could have a DEV dialogue on this. But evidently we arent going to get it. It looks like this will be pushed through whether its wanted or not. And regardless of whether you are for the change, or against it, the way its (possibly) going to be rolled out, without any discussion of the community, does not bode well for the player base. Disapointing. What will they do when the 30 page In Testing thread becomes a 200 page thread in Gameplay Discussion? I hope Im proven wrong, and a DEV pops in and spends a few posts actually talking about WHY they are doing this, WHAT the intended goal is and if they are listening to the community. I know they are swamped with RoK prep - but really - can you guys spare 30 min to talk about this? post a poll? something...?</blockquote>I admire your perseverance on this topic but really with other hot topics such as "Brawlers get no good sweet lovin' down by the fire" (brawler changes) and "MT now stands for Main Transvestite" (alternate clothing slot threads) or "Really honey, the lagg hit me so hard i froze up right past our anniversary" (lagg issues) its no wonder there isn't a response yet.Or maybe with Black Friday just happening, RoK coming up, DW changes, +DMG and Heal modifiers being retooled and a load of other things that this would have a lesser impact than lets say a Bruiser running over and smacking Naggy with two DW weapons and Devastation Fist for 500k. Then again, and what I truly think is happening, they are just playing LoN. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sapphirius

09-04-2007, 05:05 PM

<cite><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></cite><blockquote>I have a question - fpr those who are so up in arms about this change, were you in a guild during the days of patrons and status decay? Did you play when most guilds only allowed 12 people to contribute status at all?</blockquote>Yes, I was. In fact, I was one of the 12 patrons in my guild at the time. This was later changed so that everyone in the guild could contribute and guild xp would not deteriorate. It was changed to this for a reason. Now, it's pretty much expected that all members will contribute.What's more is that it was changed to be dependant upon the guild size (as in unique accounts) so that smaller guild would get more status than large guilds as the status was divided by a minimum of 6 and a maximum of 24. You could start a guild with your 5 friends, not invite anyone else, grind writs all day, and get that guild to cap in almost no time because you were getting more status for your writs than a guild with 48 unique accounts was getting.Then it was changed again to be a flat 10% across the board, no matter what your giuld size was, which worked to the benefit of larger guilds, but hurt smaller guilds. (Personally, I supported that particular change.)What I am up in arms about the most isn't that they are changing the status items. My problem is that it creates an imbalance in guild status contribution. If they are not going to base status items on character level, then they should remove them from the game entirely. That is my opinion on the matter. However, it send s a very clear message to low level players that, "Hey, SOE favors end-gamers the most because now only end-gamers are going to be able to contribute status items to their high level guilds.It basically punishes a low level player for joining a high level guild because they will have one less means of contributing status while their higher level guildmates will have one more means of contributing. As I've repeatedly stated in this thread, it wasn't that these items made a high difference. It was that they helped players will limited playtimes feel like they were contributing something.<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would appreciate it if people could be honest about exactly who will be impacted by this change. Stating all lower level players will be affected is untrue.</blockquote>No, most of us are saying that lower level players in higher level guilds are the ones who are getting hurt by this change. That statement is neither untrue nor dishonest.

Magic

09-04-2007, 05:08 PM

I applaud this change!!! It makes sense that status items benefit only the guilds that are below that tier. Like combat XP, once a mob is gray to you, you get no XP from it, not even 1 point. Status is now the same way as it should have been from the start. Thank you SOE! For everyone complaining about it, you must've known by now that this change was inevitable.

Armawk

09-04-2007, 05:15 PM

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 05:19 PM

<cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote>I applaud this change!!! It makes sense that status items benefit only the guilds that are below that tier. Like combat XP, once a mob is gray to you, you get no XP from it, not even 1 point. Status is now the same way as it should have been from the start. Thank you SOE! For everyone complaining about it, you must've known by now that this change was inevitable.</blockquote>AAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHDo people even glance over the thread before posting?Let me make this plain...Level 15 Player, yeah?In a Level 11 Guild, OK?Has limited playtime, but manages to join a blackburrow group for the 1-2 hours he can play that evening.He kills several gnolls ranging from level 15 to 18 and collects a dozen or so documents, relics etc, none of these mobs were grey to him.Pleased as punch he decides to turn them in before quiting for the night, he feels proud to be able to make that little contribution to the guild, he didn't want to spend his short playtime on grinding writs, or attempting to complete a HQ (would take him 20 minutes to clamber his way to the dwarf in Kelethin anyway).So he runs round each city guild and turns in his items, then decides to check his guild status total.Zero, Nothing, Zip, Zilch, NadaFeeling deflated and cheated, he decides to checkout WoW tomorrow night.Please tell me you get it now!

Kaalenarc

09-04-2007, 05:27 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote>I applaud this change!!! It makes sense that status items benefit only the guilds that are below that tier. Like combat XP, once a mob is gray to you, you get no XP from it, not even 1 point. Status is now the same way as it should have been from the start. Thank you SOE! For everyone complaining about it, you must've known by now that this change was inevitable.</blockquote>AAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHDo people even glance over the thread before posting?Let me make this plain...Level 15 Player, yeah?In a Level 23 Guild, OK?Has limited playtime, but manages to join a blackburrow group for the 1-2 hours he can play that evening.He kills several gnolls ranging from level 15 to 18 and collects a dozen or so documents, relics etc, none of these mobs were grey to him.Pleased as punch he decides to turn them in before quiting for the night, he feels proud to be able to make that little contribution to the guild, he didn't want to spend his short playtime on grinding writs, or attempting to complete a HQ (would take him 20 minutes to clamber his way to the dwarf in Kelethin anyway).So he runs round each city guild and turns in his items, then decides to check his guild status total.Zero, Nothing, Zip, Zilch, NadaFeeling deflated and cheated, he decides to checkout WoW tomorrow night.Please tell me you get it now!</blockquote>QFE.

Lionidas

09-04-2007, 05:29 PM

Let's be honest here folks. If it wasn't for guild level cap being raised, people stashing away stacks of items and those few guilds that use status as a means to advance in their guild, no one would really be so upset. Let's get the facts straight now shall we. Lower level characters in higher level guilds can in fact still contribute through a variety of ways including HQs, City Writ Raids, Adventure Writs, Crafting Writs, Timed Crafting Writs and killing lower level raid mobs that all give more status than the missing idols.The only people that are in fact adversely affected by this change in any substantial form either meet the following requirements: 1. Low level character in a high level guild.2. They lvl lock their toon so they stay at a lower level for a longer than average period.3. They refuse to do any of the alternate ways to earn guild status.4. They are in a guild that requires status.or they are one of the following:1. A guild wanting an extra push to 80 with the help of status items.2. A person hoping to sell off stacks of status items for big money with the raise in the cap.Look a little further down the road when the guild is at the cap again. What does the status added mean then? Nothing at all. But I'm sure that those lower level characters could sure use that extra 10% SP to go towards getting their first horse, buying some stuff to decorate their house, getting one of those nifty titles or maybe with the inclusion of Guild Halls they can use their own personal status to help with adding features to it. The people that say they are looking out for the best interests of the low level characters should really explain how taking 10% of their status away on EVERYTHING related to them earning status and that if something was to happen to separate them from their current guild, that they would lose all the status that they donated to the guild instead of moving on with it. Kinda makes you wonder who they are thinking of first the people or the guild.

Gareorn

09-04-2007, 05:29 PM

<cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote>I applaud this change!!! It makes sense that status items benefit only the guilds that are below that tier. Like combat XP, once a mob is gray to you, you get no XP from it, not even 1 point. Status is now the same way as it should have been from the start. Thank you SOE! For everyone complaining about it, you must've known by now that this change was inevitable.</blockquote>I've been in the same guild for going on 3 years now and have witnessed all the numerous changes to guild status. I've been through multiple guild leaders who've tried to manipulate the system at each change with horrible results. Hoarding status items doesn't work any better than manipulating patron status did back in the day. All it does is make your guild bank empty. The only way to level your guild is to work for it. That's the way it was back in the days of patronage and that's still how it is today.The changes on test will do almost nothing to prevent advancement to a guild who has hoarded status items. DING... Level 61. Now go out and work for your other 19 levels. Why should we have seen this change as inevitable? Is it because the current system actually worked so well that it was doomed due to dev and player pessimism?

Freliant

09-04-2007, 05:33 PM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote>I applaud this change!!! It makes sense that status items benefit only the guilds that are below that tier. Like combat XP, once a mob is gray to you, you get no XP from it, not even 1 point. Status is now the same way as it should have been from the start. Thank you SOE! For everyone complaining about it, you must've known by now that this change was inevitable.</blockquote>AAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHDo people even glance over the thread before posting?Let me make this plain...Level 15 Player, yeah?In a Level 23 Guild, OK?Has limited playtime, but manages to join a blackburrow group for the 1-2 hours he can play that evening.He kills several gnolls ranging from level 15 to 18 and collects a dozen or so documents, relics etc, none of these mobs were grey to him.Pleased as punch he decides to turn them in before quiting for the night, he feels proud to be able to make that little contribution to the guild, he didn't want to spend his short playtime on grinding writs, or attempting to complete a HQ (would take him 20 minutes to clamber his way to the dwarf in Kelethin anyway).So he runs round each city guild and turns in his items, then decides to check his guild status total.Zero, Nothing, Zip, Zilch, NadaFeeling deflated and cheated, he decides to checkout WoW tomorrow night.Please tell me you get it now!</blockquote>QFE.</blockquote>That same person, could have, instead, gotten the city writs that take you to blackburrow and gotten alot more guild status, plus an announcement on the guild that he/she completed the writ in an effort to help the guild (reguardless of how little was contributed.I fail to see the big point.

Kenazeer

09-04-2007, 05:37 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>That same person, could have, instead, gotten the city writs that take you to blackburrow and gotten alot more guild status, plus an announcement on the guild that he/she completed the writ in an effort to help the guild (reguardless of how little was contributed.I fail to see the big point.</blockquote>Actually the whole group could have gotten that writ and since everyone gets updates you would have 6 for the price of one and FAR more status as a guild then you would get from the items. Of course, this would mean that people have to, I don't know, think ahead and set out to level the guild as a goal?

Freliant

09-04-2007, 05:40 PM

Just want to point out one more thing before I leave this thread completely:To those that think it impossible to stash that amount of status items, think of this: Those guilds that got capped within 24 hours of the expansion coming in... what have they been doing with the status items they got in the year since? That is right, stashing them. And 1 whole year of stashing items means a HECK OF ALOT of status items. Well over the 8,000 stacks required to level the guild to the new cap (as someone else calculated). Aside from this, they have been buying status items as well during that time.If stuff like this was avoided, then the change wouldn't need to take place.I still vote in favor of these status items being like Language items, that automatically update the moment you loot them though. But of course, this would make those low level twinks feel bad since they can't earn their house or mounts from selling these status items.

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 05:40 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only people that are in fact adversely affected by this change in any substantial form either meet the following requirements: 1. Low level character in a high level guild.2. They lvl lock their toon so they stay at a lower level for a longer than average period.3. They refuse to do any of the alternate ways to earn guild status.4. They are in a guild that requires status.</blockquote>1. 'Low Level Character' can mean level 15 in which case 'High Level Guild' can be level 20 or higher... hardly 'High'.2. Level lock? whats that got to do with the price of cheese?? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />3. Not all players have the playtime to be able to devote to writs or HQ's4. All guilds require status Doh! they don't level otherwiseFunny really, the majority of people (not necessarily Lionidas) who don't care about the change are high level players in high level guilds? Why? Because they already know they have stored status items that still qualify, and are more worried about the possible alternative ideas that are being banded about.Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend... if you have the advanced player stats <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 05:48 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That same person, could have, instead, gotten the city writs that take you to blackburrow and gotten alot more guild status, plus an announcement on the guild that he/she completed the writ in an effort to help the guild (reguardless of how little was contributed.I fail to see the big point.</blockquote>You've obviously been no where near the low levels recently...Strangely most low level players don't have organised writ events like members of level 60 raiding guilds.And I certainly wouldn't want to put off my newest members by organising groups of 6 to do writs with military precision.For these people EQ2 is still just a game and not (yet) an obsession.

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 05:51 PM

<cite></cite>doublepost blip

Kenazeer

09-04-2007, 05:54 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That same person, could have, instead, gotten the city writs that take you to blackburrow and gotten alot more guild status, plus an announcement on the guild that he/she completed the writ in an effort to help the guild (reguardless of how little was contributed. I fail to see the big point.</blockquote>You've obviously been no where near the low levels recently...Strangely most low level players don't have organised writ events like members of level 60 raiding guilds.And I certainly wouldn't want to put off my newest members by organising groups of 6 to do writs with military precision.For these people EQ2 is still just a game and not (yet) an obsession.</blockquote>The vibe I am getting is that you are unwilling to do anything out of the ordinary to level your guild yet you still expect to level your guild? Is that correct? If not, what "effort" do you expect of your guild members besides their ordinary day to day activities?

Lionidas

09-04-2007, 05:57 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only people that are in fact adversely affected by this change in any substantial form either meet the following requirements: 1. Low level character in a high level guild.2. They lvl lock their toon so they stay at a lower level for a longer than average period.3. They refuse to do any of the alternate ways to earn guild status.4. They are in a guild that requires status.</blockquote>1. 'Low Level Character' can mean level 15 in which case 'High Level Guild' can be level 20 or higher... hardly 'High'.2. Level lock? whats that got to do with the price of cheese?? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />3. Not all players have the playtime to be able to devote to writs or HQ's4. All guilds require status Doh! they don't level otherwiseFunny really, the majority of people (not necessarily Lionidas) who don't care about the change are high level players in high level guilds? Why? Because they already know they have stored status items that still qualify, and are more worried about the possible alternative ideas that are being banded about.Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend... if you have the advanced player stats <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Funny really, that you did not mention the fact that I also have 2 characters on another server that are levels 8 and 36 and in a guild that is not at the cap. I have no high level toons or know anyone on that server that is high level and neither does anyone in my guild (we all just recently moved there).Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend. Check out Lionidas on Butcherblock. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 06:14 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That same person, could have, instead, gotten the city writs that take you to blackburrow and gotten alot more guild status, plus an announcement on the guild that he/she completed the writ in an effort to help the guild (reguardless of how little was contributed. I fail to see the big point.</blockquote>You've obviously been no where near the low levels recently...Strangely most low level players don't have organised writ events like members of level 60 raiding guilds.And I certainly wouldn't want to put off my newest members by organising groups of 6 to do writs with military precision.For these people EQ2 is still just a game and not (yet) an obsession.</blockquote>The vibe I am getting is that you are unwilling to do anything out of the ordinary to level your guild yet you still expect to level your guild? Is that correct? If not, what "effort" do you expect of your guild members besides their ordinary day to day activities?</blockquote>UntrueWe run organised events such as HQ's etc.However we are *gasp* not in a hurry to get to level 60 *shock!*If it takes us months, it takes us months. who caresOur guild stresses that the players enjoyment is far more important than grinding status. Promotions can be gained just for levelling your character (adventure and tradeskill) as well as guild status. I've been a member of guilds that were obsessed with status, i've seen people grind writs until they had half a million guild status 'for the good of the guild'.Call me strange, but i'm more interested in helping others to enjoy the game, and getting our members to work together to help each other. Being able to crow about having a level 60 (80?) guild isn't really what we are about.However, what gets my goat about this change, is that individual players will be penalised (in respect to status items) if they are in a guild that is a few levels higher than them. We literally would have situations where a player cannot contribute via status items simply because they are a level too low at that particular time. It's a totally arbitrary system, with the goal posts moving every time a guild hits the next milestone (20, 30, 40, etc)

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 06:17 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Funny really, the majority of people (not necessarily Lionidas) who don't care about the change are high level players in high level guilds? Why? Because they already know they have stored status items that still qualify, and are more worried about the possible alternative ideas that are being banded about.Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend... if you have the advanced player stats <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Funny really, that you did not mention the fact that I also have 2 characters on another server that are levels 8 and 36 and in a guild that is not at the cap. I have no high level toons or know anyone on that server that is high level and neither does anyone in my guild (we all just recently moved there).Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend. Check out Lionidas on Butcherblock. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>As stated earlier I wasn't referring to you. In fact I never checked your name. Please re-read and you will realise that.

Kenazeer

09-04-2007, 06:21 PM

Doesn't really seem arbitrary to me. Status items drop from mobs, and these items con to guild level as far as guild status goes. Easiest thing for SOE to do, so no one feels slighted, is to eliminate the guild status portion of status items, since that would treat all players/guilds equally with respect to level. Would you be ok with that change, or would you rather stay with the proposed system (assuming some change is going to happen)?

Lionidas

09-04-2007, 06:23 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Funny really, the majority of people (not necessarily Lionidas) who don't care about the change are high level players in high level guilds? Why? Because they already know they have stored status items that still qualify, and are more worried about the possible alternative ideas that are being banded about.Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend... if you have the advanced player stats <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Funny really, that you did not mention the fact that I also have 2 characters on another server that are levels 8 and 36 and in a guild that is not at the cap. I have no high level toons or know anyone on that server that is high level and neither does anyone in my guild (we all just recently moved there).Don't believe me? eq2players is your friend. Check out Lionidas on Butcherblock. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>As stated earlier I wasn't referring to you. In fact I never checked your name. Please re-read and you will realise that.</blockquote>Ahh, my mistake. I took it as "not only" Lionidas or "perhaps" Lionidas and not "not including" Lionidas or "in no way shape or form involves" Lionidas. LOL my sincerest apologies.

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 06:32 PM

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Ahh, my mistake. I took it as "not only" Lionidas or "perhaps" Lionidas and not "not including" Lionidas or "in no way shape or form involves" Lionidas. LOL my sincerest apologies.</blockquote>No apology required, possibly bad wording on my part, but I was attempting to make two separate points in the same post and wanted to make it plain that I wasn't making a comment about yourself.<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Doesn't really seem arbitrary to me. Status items drop from mobs, and these items con to guild level as far as guild status goes.Easiest thing for SOE to do, so no one feels slighted, is to eliminate the guild status portion of status items, since that would treat all players/guilds equally with respect to level. Would you be ok with that change, or would you rather stay with the proposed system (assuming some change is going to happen)?</blockquote>Anything that rewards the player on their individual merits rather than whether they are in a low or high level guild would be considered more preferable.

Sapphirius

09-04-2007, 06:36 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Doesn't really seem arbitrary to me. Status items drop from mobs, and these items con to guild level as far as guild status goes.Easiest thing for SOE to do, so no one feels slighted, is to eliminate the guild status portion of status items, since that would treat all players/guilds equally with respect to level. Would you be ok with that change, or would you rather stay with the proposed system (assuming some change is going to happen)?</blockquote>Anything that rewards the player on their individual merits rather than whether they are in a low or high level guild would be considered more preferable.</blockquote>That about sums up my opinion as well.

Kenazeer

09-04-2007, 06:48 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anything that rewards the player on their individual merits rather than whether they are in a low or high level guild would be considered more preferable.</blockquote>I agree. That(elimination of guild status from status items) would be my personal preferred solution. The other "fair" alternative is the going forward solution suggestion by ZeyGnome. That is unless they are completely revamping the guild levelling process, which after looking at some numbers, I think they just might have to consider doing. Let's use DB's numbers from earlier. I chunked in his number for going from 54-55, used a 10% growth per level, and calculated back and forward. I came up with around 2100 guild status to from level 1 to level 2, and around 10 million accumulated guild status to go from 1-60. Both these numbers jive fairly well with what we see. (The 10 million status assumes that no one leaves the guild along the way).You know what the accumulated status to go from 61-80 is? How about 63.5 million or so? From 79-80 alone is around 6.8 million status. So if the growth stays around 10% it will be harder to get from 78-80 then it was to get from 1-60. The numbers would continue to become astronomical in further expansion.Perhaps SOE is going to revamp the leveling system, and in this revamped system the plethora of status items would play a detrimental role?Hopefully a dev will chime in sometime.

Vonotar

09-04-2007, 07:01 PM

Dev's won't chime in... the longer the thread, the less chance in my experience. Something about egg shells....However if there is a general consensus in favour of a particular direction, they would likely review the situation (again this is just based on my previous experience)I agree that something needs to change, as the existing buying and selling of status (which also leads to people 'buying levels' off the broker) needs to be stopped or at least curtailed.However the proposed solution makes the mistake of linking the level of the status item, with the level of the guild, thus completely ignoring whether the player in question had an easy (killing greys) or a hard (killing oranges) time of it.Anyhoo that enough from me for tonight, us UK's have to sleep sometimes.Night night, don't let the status items bite.

AdamWest007

09-04-2007, 07:53 PM

I PLed a new toon from lv 1-30 in WC/FG/RoV in a less than a day of playtime over the weekend. Turning in the status items from just this session gave our guild about 0.5% (we are lv 59), and this is just T1/T2/T3 status items.Now imagine a guild has 50 ppl who have been collecting status items for one year (X365, not to mention the markup for higher tier status items). This equates to 50x365 or a factor of 18250 times more status than I contributed (effectively 91 guild levels). Still think guilds won't insta-ding lv 80?

Trackerwolf

09-04-2007, 08:52 PM

Personally, I don't really care how fast other guild hit the lvl cap. What I care about are those guildies who will no longer feel that they are contributing go the guild. For a guild with mostly casual players, a good number of people that I know feel that status items are the main way they contribute to the guild. The amount of status isn't what matters, it's that they feel they are doing something. For them, taking this away defeats the purpose of having guild levels. This is most unfair to new players that come into a guild and want to help. If the intent it so keep guild from reaching the lvl cap quickly, then this is the wrong way to do it. It's a quick fix, and experience should tell that quick fixes normaly produces more problems.

Devilsbane

09-04-2007, 11:44 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>How is what impossible to do? Make Guild level 80 from status items? Yes it is impossible! The Mod Squad did not turn in hundreds of thousands of status items to get those discoveries. Just like everyone else they mostly likely made Guild Level 60 from Guild Writ Raids, HQs, Writs, and Status Items (from most status to least respectively). Look the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/guilds/guild_profile.vm?guildId=185106" target="_blank">Mob Squad</a> have about enough characters for three full Guild Writ Raid forces. That tells me about 33% of their Guild levels from 50 to 60 came directly for Guild Writ Raids.</blockquote>Once again I ask. Did you bother to look at the dates?EoF live 11-14. So say with patching the servers came up around 4 pm on 11-14. The horses were discoed on 11-15, the very next calendar day. No sooner than 8 hours (more or less) and no longer than 32 hours there was a level 60 guild. With raid lockouts, writ times, and such please explain this. The order was more than likely status items>>HQs>>writs>>>>raids</blockquote>How is it I am linking the Guild that discovered them? Yes I looked. Please read my posts entirely before you keep replying. Guild Writ raids give around 10%+ for each completed at Level 55+ for complete twelve characte raid. There are six of these Guild Writ Raids. Next there are HQs, the higher the level the higher the status reward. Complete several of them up to the last step and wait until EoF was released. Seems no dev has put forth a stop gap from guilds doing that for RoK. (Anyone know of one please let me know.)Now we came to Writs. Seems there are a few that give a great deal of personal/guild status (50k/5K each) in a small amount of time (4-8 mins). Several groups grinding on these could easily added many guild levels in a short about of time. Seems 200K in writs (four at a time) equal 308 T7 guild status items each time they are completed. Given the short about of time these may be the main source of the Mob Squad's guild status at that time. Please note with the addition of quest sharing, we can even share completed writ quests. No one needs to return to the writ giver unless the writ requires that action. That will cut down on time to complete writs when RoK is released. This will ensure some guild will reach guild level 80 within a short about of time. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />As for status items just refer to my previous <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=420&topic_id=379690�" target="_blank">post</a> on the number of stacks needed for level 55.

ZeyGnome

09-05-2007, 12:14 AM

Looks like this issue is not deemed worthy of a response. Maybe I check the flamer site to see if there's a dev post there.

Finora

09-05-2007, 12:30 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lower level guilds fare better than higher level guilds. A level 20 guild will feel the effect of the change far less than a level 60 guild will. Lower level players are only hurt if they're in a higher level guild. A level 30 player in a level 20 guild will be virtually unaffected by the change, while a level 30 player in a level 60 guild will be impacted a bit more. I would appreciate it if people could be honest about exactly who will be impacted by this change. Stating all lower level players will be affected is untrue.</blockquote>I was quite honest about who will be negatively affected by the change. I elaborated in the rest of my post you didn't quote. Any lower level/new player who joins an established guild (by this I mean one that has been around and actively leveling for a few months or so). Most of the more established guilds are 30 or higher. It takes newbies considerbly longer than your average alt maker to level even to 10, let alone 20-30. So during that time they are negatively affected by the change to the status items, possibly longer as it is entirely possible that the guild level up to the next tier while they are leveling up.Please don't take my dislike of this particular change as me advocating for lvl 60 guilds to powerlevel themselves to 80 via buying up/hording status items, I think that is a really cheap and dirty way to do it. I do stand by my statement that if that is what the devs want to prevent with this change, then they should try a different method as this one is unfair to a chunk of the player base. while doing little to prevent the former problem.As yet, we've had no confirmation from the devs that the insta leveling is what the change is supposed to combat. Like someone else said for all we know it might be some new guild leveling mechanic they are working out. If that is the case, it would be nice to know so we don't all get worked up for/against it over the wrong reasons.

quamdar

09-05-2007, 05:32 AM

in my opinion this change was needed. guild level means nothing right now. in T5 hitting level 30 was an accomplishment and took guilds months of grinding out writs. rather than adding more levels that are pointlessly easy to attain and offer no real reward i would much rather have status items nerfed along with status from raids so that the levels are hard to attain and then give them a greater reward for attaining those levels.

Vonotar

09-05-2007, 05:33 AM

<cite>AdamWest007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I PLed a new toon from lv 1-30 in WC/FG/RoV in a less than a day of playtime over the weekend. Turning in the status items from just this session gave our guild about 0.5% (we are lv 59), and this is just T1/T2/T3 status items.Now imagine a guild has 50 ppl who have been collecting status items for one year (X365, not to mention the markup for higher tier status items). This equates to 50x365 or a factor of 18250 times more status than I contributed (effectively 91 guild levels). Still think guilds won't insta-ding lv 80?</blockquote>I don't give a rats-posterior if guilds insta-ding lv80. Please note that the guild I co-lead is level 23, and I have no alts in any other guild.The guilds that are gearing for 'insta-dings' are not hording status items lower than T6/T7... they only have a finite about of space and they are not gonna fill that with T1 paraffin documents!The change hurts the lowest level guilds and players far worse than the level 60 guilds/level 70 players.As said before, we really need an explanation of the why, but I doubt we'll get it.

Vonotar

09-05-2007, 05:37 AM

quamdar

09-05-2007, 06:22 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>in my opinion this change was needed. guild level means nothing right now. in T5 hitting level 30 was an accomplishment and took guilds months of grinding out writs. rather than adding more levels that are pointlessly easy to attain and offer no real reward i would much rather have status items nerfed along with status from raids so that the levels are hard to attain and then give them a greater reward for attaining those levels.</blockquote>So we needed to bar new players from being able to tun in status items appropriate to their adventure level, while allowing established capped players (70/80) to turn in as many items as they want appropriate to their adventure level?Thank you for your anti-new player vote.Please re-examine the small print and you'll realise that the need is perhaps correct, but the method is wrong.</blockquote>then don't do that, make them not really be items. make it so that when they are looted they don't appear in your inventory but just give you the status and guild status right away. that way low level people can contribute, don't waste inventory space, can't buy guild levels, and can't stockpile items to ding 80 on the first day.i never said this was the right way to do it but i am just glad they are stopping people from stockpiling items and making guild levels pointless again.

Catseyes

09-05-2007, 06:33 AM

what about comparing level player/level item instead level guild /level item ? that would allow low players to use low items and higher would have to get T7/T8 ones. that wont correct the hyper jump but it's more fair for new players. Else, set up a max items allowed per day/weeks to spend . Mixed with level player comparaison .

Vonotar

09-05-2007, 07:03 AM

<cite>quamdar wrote:</cite> <blockquote>in my opinion this change was needed.... </blockquote> <cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>... <cite></cite>i never said this was the right way to do it but i am just glad they are stopping people from stockpiling items and making guild levels pointless again.</blockquote>ok...Anyhow, I agree that stockpiling status items (in particular purchasing them off the broker) kinda makes the guild levels pointless. But then I don't really understand the 'must hit cap' mentality. If you reach the end, you have no target, no goal... correct?But then I guess I've seen too many (non-raid) guilds go stale as a result of reaching cap with too many level 70's.<cite>Catseyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>what about comparing level player/level item instead level guild /level item ? that would allow low players to use low items and higher would have to get T7/T8 ones. that wont correct the hyper jump but it's more fair for new players. Else, set up a max items allowed per day/weeks to spend . Mixed with level player comparaison . </blockquote> Matching it to player level would be good, I doubt anybody wants to programme a per day/per week mechanism, it would involve too many changes to status item npcs etc. Too much work, for too little difference.

Kaalenarc

09-05-2007, 09:23 AM

<cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>in my opinion this change was needed. guild level means nothing right now. in T5 hitting level 30 was an accomplishment and took guilds months of grinding out writs. rather than adding more levels that are pointlessly easy to attain and offer no real reward i would much rather have status items nerfed along with status from raids so that the levels are hard to attain and then give them a greater reward for attaining those levels.</blockquote>So we needed to bar new players from being able to tun in status items appropriate to their adventure level, while allowing established capped players (70/80) to turn in as many items as they want appropriate to their adventure level?Thank you for your anti-new player vote.Please re-examine the small print and you'll realise that the need is perhaps correct, but the method is wrong.</blockquote>then don't do that, make them not really be items. make it so that when they are looted they don't appear in your inventory but just give you the status and guild status right away. that way low level people can contribute, don't waste inventory space, can't buy guild levels, and can't stockpile items to ding 80 on the first day.i never said this was the right way to do it but i am just glad they are stopping people from stockpiling items and making guild levels pointless again.</blockquote>Brilliant idea. As soon as you loot the item, its automatically "turned in" and you get the status. No more hoarding and the lower level folks get to contributev equally.

Cuz

09-05-2007, 09:34 AM

<cite>Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>in my opinion this change was needed. guild level means nothing right now. in T5 hitting level 30 was an accomplishment and took guilds months of grinding out writs. rather than adding more levels that are pointlessly easy to attain and offer no real reward i would much rather have status items nerfed along with status from raids so that the levels are hard to attain and then give them a greater reward for attaining those levels.</blockquote>So we needed to bar new players from being able to tun in status items appropriate to their adventure level, while allowing established capped players (70/80) to turn in as many items as they want appropriate to their adventure level?Thank you for your anti-new player vote.Please re-examine the small print and you'll realise that the need is perhaps correct, but the method is wrong.</blockquote>then don't do that, make them not really be items. make it so that when they are looted they don't appear in your inventory but just give you the status and guild status right away. that way low level people can contribute, don't waste inventory space, can't buy guild levels, and can't stockpile items to ding 80 on the first day.i never said this was the right way to do it but i am just glad they are stopping people from stockpiling items and making guild levels pointless again.</blockquote>Brilliant idea. As soon as you loot the item, its automatically "turned in" and you get the status. No more hoarding and the lower level folks get to contributev equally.</blockquote>I'd make it so that status items are not trade and don't give guild xp at all past level 61. At the same time implement the auto status items.

Kenazeer

09-05-2007, 09:45 AM

How about all existing items must be turned in or go poof at RoK release, future items auto apply at loot, AND future items con to player level [will not give status if the item is "grey"]?

liveja

09-05-2007, 10:02 AM

<cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>then don't do that, make them not really be items. make it so that when they are looted they don't appear in your inventory but just give you the status and guild status right away.</blockquote>I liked this idea when it was suggested earlier in the thread, & I still do. It seems to me the best compromise for the current issue; guilds can't stockpile in anticipation of a huge turn-in when ROK comes out, but lowbies can still get their satisfaction of applying status points to their guild without mindless writ grinding, or begging for higher levels to help them with HQs.

Liyle

09-05-2007, 10:06 AM

<cite>quamdar wrote:</cite><blockquote>in my opinion this change was needed. guild level means nothing right now. in T5 hitting level 30 was an accomplishment and took guilds months of grinding out writs. rather than adding more levels that are pointlessly easy to attain and offer no real reward i would much rather have status items nerfed along with status from raids so that the levels are hard to attain and then give them a greater reward for attaining those levels.</blockquote>This is a rather elitist statement. Our guild is a small and has not yet reached level 50. We have been around since launch, we're not a one-person alt-fest and don't raid. Guild leveling for us is not trivial.Mega-guilds might be able to level their guilds in a few hours after the expansion. So what? I am not aware that their level impacts my guild in any way. They will also have exhausted the new content in less than a week. Hooray. Do I care? No.I like the idea of applying SP's immediately, much like the new system for language items.It would also be nice to hear the rationale behind this change. I might agree with it and change my mind. The idea that mega-guilds are hording t1 relics is ludicrous. I hope this isn't the reason. On the other hand, if there is a problem with mega-guilds sucking the market dry of low level relics so that the smaller guilds don't get a chance to buy them, maybe I can see a need for the change. If mega-guilds are leveling too fast, nerfing relics is a poor solution and maybe some of the raid SP should be nerfed instead. These little things do contribute some to guld leveling but nothing like fielding 100 players to do writs and raids. Writ-stacking and daily raiding contribute a heck of a lot more to guild level speed than t1 relics.<cite></cite>

Keiry

09-05-2007, 10:14 AM

everyone i've talked to, including myself has been saving up status items for kunark, mostly T7 (xeg, moonstone etc) ....now they are gonna be useless. Thanks SOE. -_-

Kaalenarc

09-05-2007, 10:15 AM

There really are some great ideas being floated in this thread. I dont like all of em - but all of them are prety much better than whats on Test. Sigh.

Obadiah

09-05-2007, 10:20 AM

Cuz wrote: "I'd make it so that status items are not trade and don't give guild xp at all past level 61. At the same time implement the auto status items."I didn't read all 33 pages, but this is the best idea I've seen so far. Simple to implement, and no one gets hosed. Actually, I don't think you need or want to make them no trade, just the 0 to 60 part. Give those that have stacks and stacks of them a chance to dump them on the market at least. The biggest problem with the change as it stands is, level 10 . . . level 20 . . . those are a joke to reach. So essentially status loot at these tiers would become utterly worthless. But if you make all existing tiers of status loot continue to work from 0 to 60 . . . Brilliant! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Obadiah

09-05-2007, 10:24 AM

<cite>Keiry@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>everyone i've talked to, including myself has been saving up status items for kunark, mostly T7 (xeg, moonstone etc) ....now they are gonna be useless. Thanks SOE. -_-</blockquote>I suppose next they'll make all existing collections (like, say, the Unrest collections and other EoF/KoS collections those at 70/100 may be holding onto) not give adventure XP after level 70 . . . . <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Dasein

09-05-2007, 11:12 AM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Keiry@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>everyone i've talked to, including myself has been saving up status items for kunark, mostly T7 (xeg, moonstone etc) ....now they are gonna be useless. Thanks SOE. -_-</blockquote>I suppose next they'll make all existing collections (like, say, the Unrest collections and other EoF/KoS collections those at 70/100 may be holding onto) not give adventure XP after level 70 . . . . <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The difference being that there are is a finite number of collection quests available, and completing many of those quests requires considerable time and effort. Status items drop off any mob and may be hoarded without realistic limits.

Oakum

09-05-2007, 12:41 PM

<cite>Keiry@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>everyone i've talked to, including myself has been saving up status items for kunark, mostly T7 (xeg, moonstone etc) ....now they are gonna be useless. Thanks SOE. -_-</blockquote>Hmm, as I read it the items that drop from lvl 60's mobs will be good till your guild hit's 70 so they are not useless. You can always sell them on the broker and a level appropriate guild could buy them. Besides. People will still get personnel. Now as far as how many people could store? One play with a 6 slot house. Thats 8 bank slots with up to 36 slot plus 6 house slots with 36 slot boxes plus 6 vault slots with 60 slot crates. (12 X 36) + (6 X 36) + (6 X 60)432 + 216 + 360 = 1008 1008 stacks of 20 status items. One good and one evil. 2 X 1008 = 2016.now that leave 10 other characters on a station account that could also hold status items but could not put any in the shared banks. 1008 - (4 X 36) X 101108 - 144 X 10864 X 10 = 8640So one station access account can store up to 8640 + 2016 = 10656 stacks. Now lets say that they are only 500 stat items which will give (50 X 20 = 1000 GSP) per stack that 1000 X 10656 = 1,0656,000. If most of the accounts in a guild, say it was a larger guild with 50 accounts llike that, it would be a whole lot of instant leveling for a guild. Especially if they used T7/T8(what they could get, there is not a lot of it available i am sure) loot. Now what about the guilds with 100's of accounts? Now with that said I can see their concern. I think it is unfair to penalize lower level players but with most players being toward the cap there is reason to change it but it will not be a big effect on the higher level players initially until about guild lvl 70 when it will take T8 status to level the guild. I think that setting a reasonable limit for accounts based on the highest lvl player of the account or of the characters in a guild would be reasonable. It could take some work though to make something like that work.