Level-locking is CHEAP, RIDICULOUS, and just WRONG

[Bluu]

<p>So maybe I'm alone in this, but I seriously think that level locking on pvp servers is highly overrated, cheap, and utterly ridiculous.</p><p>Every now and then while in Kelethin (and other cities) I'll see people killing themselves against the guards and respawning and doing it over and over again just to get exp debt. </p><p>Why? For the sole purpose of being a low lvl yet high AA having character. </p><p>Heck, the other day I asked if I could join the guild PvP group but I was too high, and they said ‘you should have a teen level-locked toon just for PvP'. That's ludicurous IMO. </p><p>This is obscene. I believe that:</p><p> A: What SHOULD and DOES matter more when it comes to excelling at PvP is your own personal skill and knowledge at how to play your class; being able to tailor your tactics to any given situation. THAT is what truly matters.</p><p>B: Level-locking is essentially as cheap as twinking. Sure, you'll slightly outmatch your opponents due to your higher AA, but is that a fair fight? No. It's not. The greatest joys of PvP is engaging in a PC vs. PC or group vs. group battle in which the opponents are evenly matched. The ones where you find yourself and your opponent both with 50 hp left and your heart races with anticipation of a lucky crit or parried blow. </p><p>C: It gets boring being the same level with the same spells/combat arts for such a long time. You're missing out on A LOT. Heck, a lot of classes don't meet their full potential until their 20's and 30's. Sure you'll get a few new abilites here and there with your AA's, but it's nothing extraordinary!</p><p>So in summary....</p><p>Level-locking is LAME</p><p>And I have absolutely NO RESPECT for anyone who does it. </p><p>You shame the nature of what PvP is SUPPOSED TO BE.</p>

[CresentBlade]

It is slowly killing the game now, was ok when just a couple of people were doing it. Now yes theres a bunch of guilds teir 2-3 only. I could care less either way they pay not to play it is their money. If they removed level locking bunch of people would cry they would quit, not that it would really matter you would never see them past teir 3 anyway /shrug

[Vitarga]

I've just returned to the game after a long hiatus. I've currently turned combat xp off and am now just leveling using quest xp. I'm trying to get as many aa's as i can and also experience as much of the pve game as i can while enjoying some great pvp. Am i getting rolled by twinks? Yes. But i'm working on harvesting and getting myself geared up. You gain levels way to quick at the lower levels. Everything is greyed out by the time you get around to picking up the quests. Believe me, i'm leveling fast enough just on quest xp. I'm sure that will change as i lvl up though. One thing i've wondered is how many players would be around in the low tiers if soe got rid of the xp disabling. very very very few. And that would be a real quick way to get rid of all the new players that join. I'd rather be mowed over by twinks when i first start out, then to see no one at all. just my dirty penny.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<p>To the person who said no one would notice:  Between just 3 guilds of level lockers on the freeport side, there are 95 unique members (accounts.)  That's 1420.25 a month assuming they have JUST the basic 14.95 subscription. That's 17043 a year in subscriptions from just THREE of these guilds.  So, I think SOE would notice quite a bit.  Plus these guilds include some very active players.  (Norrath Pirates, University Of, Best Friends Forever).  Just figured I'd mention that...now think of the fact that there are an insane number of these guilds on both factions, and 2 other pvp servers (I believe its just 2 now) and you come to realise, that's alot of players, and alot of money.  So yeah, a loss would definately be felt.  Also realise this friend, alot of these twinks are alts of higher tiered players, as OP mention in his post, alot of people recommend a tier 2 / 3 alt for pvp.  Anyways, dont hate, just putting it out there :p </p>

[tass]

im in 2 guilds currently. 1 is a t2 guild so my brig is going to be locked at probably 17 or 18 when he reaches it. The other is t3 so the warlock will be locked around 20. Its where all the pvp is on the servers with t4 and up just being a pain in itself to find pvp that isnt in some random pack wandering the el's in full fable or a grp of people waiting by a bell or spire.

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>Level locking Is lame i agree.</p><p>IMO if you disable Exp you disable AA Exp.</p><p>If you disable Exp it means quest and AA are locked. </p><p>If you kill a player .. you always get Exp.</p><p>This would ensure you will have enough kills to get PvP gear if you level off kills. </p><p>You are always progressing toward higher end content. </p><p>Tier 2 level locking ..[I cannot control my vocabulary].. all that happens is that those tiers are full of classes who are imbalanced in that tier.</p><p>T3 swamped with shadowknights. HT easy button for the win. </p><p>T2 -T3 full of furries .. no classes have the DPS burn yet to overcome the healing, and fury dps his huge. </p><p>Good number of necro's in T3 th fear gives the chance to kill a target with low HP easy at that tier. </p><p>It has been said before and its true.. </p><p>New players dont come. Why would you </p><p>Many have eard of the PvP servers in the PvE and come over to give it  a shot. </p><p>They roll a toon.. hit level 10 wearing the quest gear from started zones. </p><p>And get killed non stop. They cant hit players who are the same class and level. </p><p>Players are running arround at 55% run speed cutting them down . </p><p>They are being HT for 150% of their max health. </p><p>If they complain it "L2P" noob. </p><p>or told ..well what ya need to do is </p><p>"Grind up a crafter to lvl 70 and make alot of cash"</p><p>Then start a new char who has an easy win button.</p><p>Then every day spend 30 min killing yerself on a guard to max yer debt.</p><p>Then take all of yer crafted cash and sponsor yer character. </p><p>Get all mastercrafted gear. </p><p>All adept 3 at least spells. </p><p>Then start farming masters or buying them on the market.</p><p>While doing that make sure Exp is turned off and just do quests over and over till you get 30 AA'a at level 15</p><p>now that you have invested weeks of effort to Die hundreds of times and grind 70 crafting levels and have 30 AA's . </p><p>You stand a chance.. Now you can run away from other twink characters cause they might be too tough .. </p><p>they migh t have doed 5000 times and have 70 AA's . </p><p>You want to look for new green players with "Normnal" gear .. and use no skill and "Gank them" </p><p>Wuahahahahahah you will feel yer little [Removed for Content] grow .. </p><p>Now you are having Fun ... Right .. </p><p>Locked at a level with no more quests to do ... you did them all .. no better gear to look forward to ... no progression ... but hey if ya get bored you can just turn on exp for 7 more levels ... spend all yer cash on rares and go attack a guard 2000 more times.</p><p>THAt's playing man .... Thats FUN!!!! ... </p><p>Hey why are you going back to the Blue  Server .. you must be a noob .... L2P man L2P.</p><p>Level lockers should be on Venekor for sure .. They are Role Playing to the Extreme . </p><p>Locked at a level where imbalance is insane.. They pretend to play the game.. The build a fantasy world where they pretend to have skill .. </p><p>To the level lockers .... come out and play with the BIG fish ya bunch of guppies. </p><p>The classes become fully formed at lvl 50. till then you are all just farting in the baby pool talking smack with a rattle in yer hand and a diaper full of doodie.</p>

[Simera]

<p>The fun and challenge of level locking is attacking groups higher in level than yourselves. Sure you can 'gank' a green but you can and do gank greens at 70 too..I don't get the comparison there? The thing you DONT have at level 70 is targets who con yellow and red to you, decreasing the risk and decreasing the number of targets you have. Most level lockers have one if not several level 70s already..the reason theres so many of them is it's fun to have danger at every turn again. RED CON danger. </p>

[Elfin Hoi Man]

<p>Then level lock in exile. How can you challenge yourself by hiding behind level ranges? Or do you mean challange yourself at your convenience.</p><p>The tier2 locking especially on Nagafen is dire. I'm just thankful we have the highest population to try and make up for the locking however the option to "Disable Combat XP" should be removed from PVP.</p><p>Level as slowly as you want, kill yourselves on the guards and accrue your XP debt, but gain XP from PVP kills you should. Cheap, rediculous and plain wrong it is.</p>

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Level locking Is lame i agree.</p><p>IMO if you disable Exp you disable AA Exp.</p><p>If you disable Exp it means quest and AA are locked. </p><p>If you kill a player .. you always get Exp.</p><p>This would ensure you will have enough kills to get PvP gear if you level off kills. </p><p>You are always progressing toward higher end content. </p><p>Tier 2 level locking ..[I cannot control my vocabulary].. all that happens is that those tiers are full of classes who are imbalanced in that tier.</p><p>T3 swamped with shadowknights. HT easy button for the win. </p><p>T2 -T3 full of furries .. no classes have the DPS burn yet to overcome the healing, and fury dps his huge. </p><p>Good number of necro's in T3 th fear gives the chance to kill a target with low HP easy at that tier. </p><p>It has been said before and its true.. </p><p>New players dont come. Why would you </p><p>Many have eard of the PvP servers in the PvE and come over to give it  a shot. </p><p>They roll a toon.. hit level 10 wearing the quest gear from started zones. </p><p>And get killed non stop. They cant hit players who are the same class and level. </p><p>Players are running arround at 55% run speed cutting them down . </p><p>They are being HT for 150% of their max health. </p><p>If they complain it "L2P" noob. </p><p>or told ..well what ya need to do is </p><p>"Grind up a crafter to lvl 70 and make alot of cash"</p><p>Then start a new char who has an easy win button.</p><p>Then every day spend 30 min killing yerself on a guard to max yer debt.</p><p>Then take all of yer crafted cash and sponsor yer character. </p><p>Get all mastercrafted gear. </p><p>All adept 3 at least spells. </p><p>Then start farming masters or buying them on the market.</p><p>While doing that make sure Exp is turned off and just do quests over and over till you get 30 AA'a at level 15</p><p>now that you have invested weeks of effort to Die hundreds of times and grind 70 crafting levels and have 30 AA's . </p><p>You stand a chance.. Now you can run away from other twink characters cause they might be too tough .. </p><p>they migh t have doed 5000 times and have 70 AA's . </p><p>You want to look for new green players with "Normnal" gear .. and use no skill and "Gank them" </p><p>Wuahahahahahah you will feel yer little [Removed for Content] grow .. </p><p>Now you are having Fun ... Right .. </p><p>Locked at a level with no more quests to do ... you did them all .. no better gear to look forward to ... no progression ... but hey if ya get bored you can just turn on exp for 7 more levels ... spend all yer cash on rares and go attack a guard 2000 more times.</p><p>THAt's playing man .... Thats FUN!!!! ... </p><p>Hey why are you going back to the Blue  Server .. you must be a noob .... L2P man L2P.</p><p>Level lockers should be on Venekor for sure .. They are Role Playing to the Extreme . </p><p>Locked at a level where imbalance is insane.. They pretend to play the game.. The build a fantasy world where they pretend to have skill .. </p><p>To the level lockers .... come out and play with the BIG fish ya bunch of guppies. </p><p>The classes become fully formed at lvl 50. till then you are all just farting in the baby pool talking smack with a rattle in yer hand and a diaper full of doodie.</p></blockquote>For the record, explain to me why you believe it is wrong that we want to do as many quests as possible...AND STILL GET CREDIT FOR THEM.  What is wrong for PVP'ing at that level.  I quest ALL the time.  I accrue debt so that I can do more quests!  And guess what?  So much pvp happens while im doing my thing, that by the time I've 'DONE ALL THE QUESTS'...I will have the fact to kick the crap out of people while I continue to do quests.  Honestly, at the rate I am progressing, I will have not only 100AA, but full faction before I hit the level cap.  And it's not like its the first time I've taken a toon to 70, I REGRET not doing this the first time.  So.  L2P. (That was out of spite btw, thx.)

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Dequi@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Then level lock in exile. How can you challenge yourself by hiding behind level ranges? Or do you mean challange yourself at your convenience.</p><p>The tier2 locking especially on Nagafen is dire. I'm just thankful we have the highest population to try and make up for the locking however the option to "Disable Combat XP" should be removed from PVP.</p><p><u>Level as slowly as you want, kill yourselves on the guards and accrue your XP debt, but gain XP from PVP kills you should. Cheap, rediculous and plain wrong it is.</u></p></blockquote>I'm going to agree with this.  Pvp kills should give a minimal amount of xp, I think PERMA level locking is wrong, but I do think that it has enabled a good many people to really enjoy the game.

[Saintedone]

<p>IMO level locking should be disabled on a pvp server...</p><p>A - if your a newb who doesnt buy plat and your tryin to learn the game - you are just some one to gank - how much fun is that?? How fair is it when you get gank over and over by fabled out level 20's with extreame AA's.</p><p>B - The reason the pvp game is in its current state on most servers (low pop) is simply because you get hunted at every tier ( not by players you may be equal to but professional level whatever all AA'd and Fabled out) on the way to T7 were its totally messed up anyway.</p><p>C - Level locking is being used for nothing other than ganking squads who hunt down solo's and kill every 30 mins, I mean I go through the lands and all I ever manage to see these days are the level lockers camping zone lines and or griff towers, I know there level locked because I know there higher level toons. If you have a kill ratio of 100 to 1 then somethings not right with the game at all. Even if you kill/camp these guys are so twinked out its rediculas to an average gamer.</p><p>D - The argument that they pay to play is silly I know 30 people who wont play the game at its current state because of the way these players are locked - This is not what was intended for the game - it was put inplace so if friends were out leveling eachother they could stay in the same tier without having to mentor, letting them catch up.</p><p> I see no good reason for it on a pvp server as it has no real benifit to the game, and no argument so far has any kind made any kind of sence. It hurts the player pop in the end because as pplbring up new toons they are forced into instance zones and cant even enjoy progressive play.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>95% of level lockers have a lvl 70 alt </p><p>feeding them cash </p><p>feeding them items</p><p>Ya said it yourself not your first lvl 70. </p><p>Ok go have some real fun . </p><p>start your character on the opposite faction. </p><p>No friends trading you cash </p><p>No exiling alts with cash </p><p>Just ENJOY the game as you say lock yerself with NO money </p><p>Spend all of your time harvesting that t2 t3 rares for gear and spells</p><p>have no cash to pay the crafters for their time. </p><p>Have no friends make stuff for ya  for free.</p><p>You will be ganked and beaten to a pulp. </p><p>tell me how much you Enjoy that. </p><p>But you wont .... and neither do the new characters to the server .... </p><p>L2P without the crutches ... </p><p>L2P when exp off means AA off</p><p>Join me at the high end of the game .. where we all have money gear and spells at master .. </p><p>i know its scarry here .. ill hold yer hand .. we can get thru it together. </p><p><a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=871864120" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=871864120</a></p><p>wow 3 days of play wearing all blackened iron gear and legendary </p><p>let me guess rare poisons too . </p><p>looks like you are roughing it Ratface.. destroyer no less .. nice ... </p><p>i hear thats what all the NEW player wear .. i wonder how many new lvl 15's can kill you ?</p><p>nice place to lock too lvl 15 .. before any peeps can buy the see stealth totems. Ballzy man hardcore</p><p>all mastercrafted and only mystics and swashies can see you commin ...</p><p>wonder why they dont play?</p><p>  </p>

[AbyssalSoul]

<p>Level locking is only cheap and wrong when all you do is go around and kill people who have no chance of fighting back.  Even then, that's debatable because it IS a PVP server, and just like in real life, there will always be someone who has the upper hand.  </p><p> PVP vs other locked lowbie twinks is a TON of fun.  Not everyone has the time to level a character up to 70 to PVP and get max faction... people have different schedules, life demands, etc.  It really brought back the fun in this game for me.  Don't tell me it is cheap because being level 70 running around in gank squads, camping islands up in KOS, is just as bad.  In essence every level 70 is a 'locked twink' because what else can they work on but getting the best gear and masters?  </p><p>I hate people who argue that it is ruining server populations... if you can't deal with getting ganked suck it up and find a new game.  Stop whining about it.  For those of you who talk about raising the level cap for PVP to a different level... think that not EVERYONE has large amounts of playtime.  You can't cater a game to only the dedicated players, with my current play schedule it would take me years to hit level 70!    </p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p><b>AbyssalSoul</b> </p><p>How does your argument make any scense. </p><p>If you didnt have alot of play time ...you would be .. a lower level .</p><p>At a similar level as those who.... have played as much as you. </p><p>At level 70 we are level locked . </p><p>we have hd 70 levels of common time to aquire items, craft , do instances. </p><p>we have all had equal opportunities to better our characters. One thing im sure of is we dont have lvl 120 charactes feeding us cash and items.</p><p>Level lockers are not low level characters .. the are the ego extensions of a lvl 70 </p><p>for the most part they are lvl 70's who cant play for squat at 70 where we all had the same time to play .. the same chances to better ourselvs. so instead twink out an alt to unbalane the playing field.</p><p>What lockers doing is beating up new players, who never had the chance to twink a char , </p><p>who are new and cant possibly have the gear spells or AA's . They are totally disadvantaged in every way and leave the game. </p><p>Unlock yer char .. play when you have time .. level at the pace you want .. and know that the people you are fighting have kill about the same number of mobs .. been playing the same number of hours .. and are wearing simillar gear to you .. Then if you kill them .. you are skilled ..and a little lucky.. and not just another player who's skill lies in killing themselvs on the docks and transfering cash to alts. Its player vs player not player VS my player and my 3 lvl 70 alts</p>

[convict]

<p>You should see the locked Q's running in groups attacking solo noobs in DW.. The best part, was the level 12 mystic doing quest there. Noone can touch him due to his wards. I watched him, level 12, attack a level 17 dirge and kill him in a matter of seconds, while the dirge never got him out of the green..</p><p>That must be really fun. Actually, it's fear, They know they cant mow everyone down like a god at level 70, so they lock at lower levels killing noobs to make themselves feel above the noobs.. Then they flex..LOL.. watched a locked monk kill a caster that was afk, then /flex /laugh and corpse hump..</p><p>To the guy that said you like the challenge, then take that locked toon and exile. You wont though, because locked people are to busy farming titles and kvd ratio's, period! Pvp doesn't bring in enough accounts for SoE to spend time working on it, or they would have toned down damage so fights last longer than 3 seconds, and fix overpowered classes/spells/CA's..</p>

[Cantilena]

<p>Without mentoring, disabling xp is the only way for friends with varying amounts of play time to be able to PvP together.  Mentoring in PvP cannot be allowed, because any x number players who are insert_level_here can become a raid of x number of GROUPS that level instantaneously.  So level locking is all there is left.</p><p>I would have no problem if locking xp locked ALL forms of xp, including quest, discovery, collection AND AA.</p><p>The other thing I have NO problem with about level locking, is that it allows players to max out their gear before outlevelling it.  This would not be a problem if this game was not so pathetically easy or the xp curve so fast.  But as it is, you outlevel your gear way too quickly to get any real satisfaction of having it (part of the "fun" of mmos is advancing your gear as well as levels etc.)</p><p>So go ahead and disable ALL xp, including AA when locked.  Those who lock so they can stay the same level as their friends, and so they can get decent gear for the tier they are in can still do that.</p><p>Of course, the OP could also simply level past all those T2 level lockers in a matter of days, if he has a clue how to play this game, and then it doesn't matter then, does it?  Or just race to max level where -- SHOCK -- EVERYONE IS LOCKED!</p>

[Hon]

I have to agree, it is lame. 

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I locked at 18 and am now 38 (64aa.)</p><p>I did not lock so that I can kill noobs.  I did it so I can kill red cons.</p>

[yohann koldheart]

the person that said sony would feel the money loss if they get rid of level locking from all the canceled accounts, are you kidding me? sony is a multi Billion dollar a year company, yeah thats B for billion. do you honestly think they would even feel the 30k a year hit and i think thats a very high guess of how many would cancel. no they wouldnt, sony could compleatly eliminate all of soe right now and tomorrow they would never see a sizeable profit loss. your monthly fee goes mostly to hardware upgrades and maintenence, and salaries of the people that maintain them .the only kind of real income soe has if developing the expansions and software. you can go into any software store and will be lucky to find  a single copy of eq2 on the shelves.

[yohann koldheart]

this is why more people should play on pvp test once in a wile. then they would know how bad they are"fixing"thing befor ethey put it to live.

[CresentBlade]

Safia@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>The fun and challenge of level locking is attacking groups higher in level than yourselves. Sure you can 'gank' a green but you can and do gank greens at 70 too..I don't get the comparison there? The thing you DONT have at level 70 is targets who con yellow and red to you, decreasing the risk and decreasing the number of targets you have. Most level lockers have one if not several level 70s already..the reason theres so many of them is it's fun to have danger at every turn again. RED CON danger. </p></blockquote>I can see where your coming from but the truth is they run from anything that might be slightly dangerous.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>95% of level lockers have a lvl 70 alt </p><p><a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=871864120" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a></p><p>  </p></blockquote>I would have to disagree about this I would say maybe 50% the rest is all bought online. The online business would not be doing so well or be so numerous if they where not making good money.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You should see the locked Q's running in groups attacking solo noobs in DW.. The best part, was the level 12 mystic doing quest there. Noone can touch him due to his wards. I watched him, level 12, attack a level 17 dirge and kill him in a matter of seconds, while the dirge never got him out of the green..</p><p>That must be really fun. Actually, it's fear, They know they cant mow everyone down like a god at level 70, so they lock at lower levels killing noobs to make themselves feel above the noobs.. Then they flex..LOL.. watched a locked monk kill a caster that was afk, then /flex /laugh and corpse hump..</p><p>To the guy that said you like the challenge, then take that locked toon and exile. You wont though, because locked people are to busy farming titles and kvd ratio's, period! Pvp doesn't bring in enough accounts for SoE to spend time working on it, or they would have toned down damage so fights last longer than 3 seconds, and fix overpowered classes/spells/CA's..</p></blockquote>I agree, to all the people saying you want a challenge then go exile. I bet that wont last long at all and besides we all know the challenge thing is just a excuse.

[Image_Vain]

I'm sure we can all agree that an Extra cheese stuffed crust pizza is always good.

[Bluu]

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure we can all agree that an Extra cheese stuffed crust pizza is always good. </blockquote>YOU ARE WRONG! I DISAGREE! Thin crust with extra pepperoni is the best <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CresentBlade]

Mazzick@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure we can all agree that an Extra cheese stuffed crust pizza is always good. </blockquote>YOU ARE WRONG! I DISAGREE! Thin crust with extra pepperoni is the best <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Thin crust for the win!!! Omg I am so hungry now...thanks<img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Acelectric]

<p>Well, this cetainly explains my experience with PvP.</p><p>I have a couple of lvl 70 toons on PvE servers and decided it was time to try my hand at PvP.  So I started a toon and took him to Darklight Woods.  Was progressing through the quests, getting my little rewards, and having a bit of fun.  Then I hit lvl 10.  Got killed shortly after while trying to turn in a quest.  Ok no problem, it is PvP after all, so I learn to be a little more watchful.  I keep going till I get to lvl 14.  Ok time to try a little pvping.  No matter what lvl the competition was I couldnt even hit them.  I would get a few CA's off and I was dead.  How is a new player ever gonna compete with level locked players that either have a high lvl alt feeding them plat or buying plat?  It seems I have to lvl a toon all the way to 70 just to be able to try out PvP.  Not sure I want to go through that much work just so I can see if i like PvP.  If this is gonna be eveyones introduction to PvP than I dont see many new players staying very long.</p>

[Abstract]

<p><b><i>I raced my main to 70. i missed out on all kinds of pvp.</i></b></p><p><b><i>so i made a couple lowbies and started twinking them for T2 pvp. i can see</i></b></p><p><b><i>that i is near impossible for "new" players to kill or keep up with the twinks, but if</i></b></p><p><b><i>SOE wanted to stop it, all they had to do is make all pvp kills worth adv xp regardless of lock xp.</i></b></p>

[Firam]

XP locking (in itself) is not the problem here.  It's the way people choose to play their XP locked toons. It's actually a really good idea to lock your XP from L10-40 or so.  On PvP OR PvE (but more so on PvP obviously).  The array of quests is so vast that you simply can't do everything before they grey out unless you turn off combat exp.  Finishing out one or more AA lines == a much stronger character for that level.  This is desirable in both PvE and PvP.  It's a valid game mechanic and in no way should be disabled.  However, the <u>vast</u> majority of people who do this do it with less than honorable intentions.  They create full groups (or guilds) of locked people with the sole intention of gearing out way beyond what the average player for that level can achieve, and this grants them almost absolute dominance in PvP.  Is this a problem?  Sure, you can call it that.  But don't blame the mechanic, blame the people who abuse it. I've wavered back and forth on this issue.  When I first started on Nagafen last summer I made a swashbuckler and locked it at L26.  This was my second character, my first being a ranger that I got to T5 and stopped playing.  A bunch of my guildies wanted to make a 6 man guild that was to be the ultimate PvP group for that tier.  We were mostly scout classes, not very well balanced (look at the old Monged group with Rigz, Exhale, Troj, and Scrotty if you want to see true T3/4 dominance... well balanced classes in a PvP group of skilled players, it was <i>awesome</i> to behold), but we had fun.  We spent most of our time roaming CL, Ant and TS looking for groups of blues to yellows (or oranges) to kill.  What we ended up with was mostly green ganking with the occasional "good fight" against the yellows or oranges.  Just how it was back then.  The novelty wore off after awhile, people moved on to different things, and the group fell apart.   Then, I started my brigand.  Didn't lock it (except for a brief period at L58 to try to catch up on some faction), just took it to T7 quickly.  I enjoyed the character in the "traditional" way that most people expect a PvP character to be played and levelled.  Sure.  Great.  But as you all know T7 PvP can be just as lame as level locked PvP, except for different reasons.  The novelty wore off there too.  I was hungry for a new challenge. So I set off to create the ultimate "fun" character.  I rolled up an illusionist, locked it at L10, bought a GL60 horse, forced exp debt, did all that good stuff, and racked up the AA with the intention of exiling it and keeping it locked when I got to L35.  And I'll tell you, it's crazy awesome.  Fully mastered and legendary/MC.  No tracking.  That little illy is a beast in PvP in most situations.  And not only that, but I don't feel that... er... that <i>slimy cheapness</i> that I would if I had locked an easy-mode class and kept it faction based in its home city.  It's a true challenge.  When you're suddenly attackable by<i><b> everyone of any level or faction</b></i>, and you can't see them coming, but you can give them a pretty good fight if they're solo or in a small group, the game takes on a whole new element of fun.  Try it sometime.  Roll up a new character (any class), take it to exile early on, rack up the AA, and I guarantee you'll feel good about the PvP brawls you'll get into.

[Firam]

<cite>Acelectric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, this cetainly explains my experience with PvP.</p><p>I have a couple of lvl 70 toons on PvE servers and decided it was time to try my hand at PvP.  So I started a toon and took him to Darklight Woods.  Was progressing through the quests, getting my little rewards, and having a bit of fun.  Then I hit lvl 10.  Got killed shortly after while trying to turn in a quest.  Ok no problem, it is PvP after all, so I learn to be a little more watchful.  I keep going till I get to lvl 14.  Ok time to try a little pvping.  No matter what lvl the competition was I couldnt even hit them.  I would get a few CA's off and I was dead.  How is a new player ever gonna compete with level locked players that either have a high lvl alt feeding them plat or buying plat?  It seems I have to lvl a toon all the way to 70 just to be able to try out PvP.  Not sure I want to go through that much work just so I can see if i like PvP.  If this is gonna be eveyones introduction to PvP than I dont see many new players staying very long.</p></blockquote> It's all about time investment vs returns, and this is to be expected.  Think about who you're going up against.  These are players who have spent months or years building up the resources to equip their mains and in doing so have made enough money to gear out alts as well.  You <i>just</i> started there. You are likely in treasured gear with apprentice or adept spells.  They're in full MC/legendary with mostly masters or AD3's.  Why would you expect to win?  You shouldn't.  It's a fact of life.  It's not a pretty one, but as they say, "all's fair in love and war".  This is war. =) The solution?  Spend some more time with your character.  Harvest rares to gear/AD3 yourself out.  You'll be surprised how quickly you can gear yourself up, and the <b>dramatic</b> difference that it makes in your PvP effectiveness.  You're also not very experienced in the dynamics of PvP since you just started, and these people have been doing this for quite awhile.  PvP strategy is nothing like PvE. I came from a long time PVE background as well, and it's an interesting way to play the game.  I don't know if I'll ever go back.  Just stick with it and give it some time, don't expect to dominate at first and you'll be alright. (oh, and <i>dont</i> rush to level like some people will recommend.  i would highly recommend locking your xp for most of the time and just levelling off quests.  the AA points will be more than worth it, and you'll be able to gear yourself up easier.  trust me on this.)

[Cantilena]

<p>Keep a toon(s) below 10 and HARVEST AND CRAFT to 70.  You can make just as much or more coin than racing your adventure level to 70, while having most likely harvested all your own rares in the process.  I did it.  It took about three months to have my rares stored up for all seven tiers BEFORE I dinged level 10.</p><p>And you don't even have to lock to do it.  Just don't quest or kill anything with your little harvester/crafter, don't be dumb about getting too many discoveries, and you will stay below level 10.</p><p>Of course, if someone has only ever played WoW or eq2 PvE, they probably don't have the Endure Boredom or Mindless Grind skills to follow through with such a plan.  As an old eq1 vet, it wasn't very hard at all, hehe.  It just took TIME.</p>

[gfx]

[Removed for Content] HE KILLED HIMSELF TO A GUARD MULTIPLE TIMES !!! AAAAARH I CAN'T TAKE IT !!! OOH IT BURNS !!! get over it.

[Cocytus]

<p>You're not a real player until you make a thread insulting other peoples' playstyles.</p><p>Whine some more...or don't, that'd be cooler.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>There is no such thing as level locking, only combat xp locking.  </p><p> The only level locked people are at 70... soon to be 80.</p><p>to the person who said that "locking" was as cheap as twinking.. lmfao.. the n00bish garbage you hear on these forums, sometimes....</p>

[deepruntramp]

I don't think level lockers realize the immensely negative effect they have on PvP server populations. A new player, either to PvP or to the game as a whole, only has so much patience to put up with these cheating [Removed for Content]. And yes, it may as well be cheating, considering a fully AA-ed, twinked level 14 is basically in godmode compared to anything that isn't equally twinked. Here are some ways this problem could be fixed: -Mounts need a level requirement, at least on PvP servers. Just copy WoW. Standard, affordable mount at 40, fast one at 60, special one at 70. No one loses a mount they've already purchased, it's just made unusable til 40/60/70. -Stricter equipment caps, at least on PvP servers, and especially at lower levels. Look at DAOC -- there is a hard cap of how much benefit you can recieve to a specific stat from gear at any given level. For instance, if the cap at level 14 was 40, and you had gear that granted +62 STR, you'd only recieve 40 points of benefit until you leveled up. This needs to apply to ALL stats -- HP, Power, Core Stats, and Resists. Do this and there's still a gap between the twinked and the new, but it's much, much narrower. -An AA cap by level, at least on PvP servers. The exact scale is up for debate, but I think 10-15 AAs per tier is a good place to start. To implement this, all AA points will be refunded to all characters. Then, players will be able to spend AAs up to their level's cap. Any leftover AAs will stay unspent until the player levels up enough to use them.

[Oneira]

Safia@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>The fun and challenge of level locking is attacking groups higher in level than yourselves. Sure you can 'gank' a green but you can and do gank greens at 70 too..I don't get the comparison there? The thing you DONT have at level 70 is targets who con yellow and red to you, decreasing the risk and decreasing the number of targets you have. Most level lockers have one if not several level 70s already..the reason theres so many of them is it's fun to have danger at every turn again. RED CON danger. </p></blockquote> Unfortunately Safia this is not what is happening.  99% of those who are level-locked in t2 for PvP purposes are out to farm noobies who don't stand a chance against them.  Go ahead and roll a new arasai and go out to darklight woods.  Please go ahead, and don't twink it.  You will see exactly what I mean.  By itself, disabling your combat xp is not cheap.  I have done it on my new t2 arasai toon because I want to get my xp through questing.  That way I can get good AA xp along the way.  But trust me, there's no way I want to stay in t2 for long.  It's horrible.  I'll get my AAs and get out.  As a level 13 assassin who's managed to farm a couple of rares and turn them into jewelry, I still have absolutely no chance against any twinked t2 toon of any class or any level, period.  I have tried occasionally to attack a Q that's running around darlight, and even grouped up to try.  Not once have I won.  NOT ONCE.  And my assassin isn't actually that badly equipped either. Sorry gang, but they aren't doing it for the challenge, they're doing it to farm toons for easy faction.  At least admit that much before you start disparaging the comments of those who are upset about it here.  To the OP:  there's really nothing you can do about this.  Quest as much as you can, level up and get some AAs along the way and get out.  T2 pvp is a wasteland and a complete waste of your time--unless you want to become a twinked ganker yourself.  Just avoid the combats as best you can, use a little smarts and it'll keep you from getting ganked too much, and sooner than you think you'll be able to wave bye-bye to the overly twinked epeens of T2 and not look back.

[Bozidar]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think level lockers realize the immensely negative effect they have on PvP server populations. A new player, either to PvP or to the game as a whole, only has so much patience to put up with these cheating [I cannot control my vocabulary]. And yes, it may as well be cheating, considering a fully AA-ed, twinked level 14 is basically in godmode compared to anything that isn't equally twinked. Here are some ways this problem could be fixed: -Mounts need a level requirement, at least on PvP servers. Just copy WoW. Standard, affordable mount at 40, fast one at 60, special one at 70. No one loses a mount they've already purchased, it's just made unusable til 40/60/70. -Stricter equipment caps, at least on PvP servers, and especially at lower levels. Look at DAOC -- there is a hard cap of how much benefit you can recieve to a specific stat from gear at any given level. For instance, if the cap at level 14 was 40, and you had gear that granted +62 STR, you'd only recieve 40 points of benefit until you leveled up. This needs to apply to ALL stats -- HP, Power, Core Stats, and Resists. Do this and there's still a gap between the twinked and the new, but it's much, much narrower. -An AA cap by level, at least on PvP servers. The exact scale is up for debate, but I think 10-15 AAs per tier is a good place to start. To implement this, all AA points will be refunded to all characters. Then, players will be able to spend AAs up to their level's cap. Any leftover AAs will stay unspent until the player levels up enough to use them.</blockquote><p>I think people OVER ESTIMATE the effect that it has on the game.  I started on pvp, my first EQ2 experience, first MMO.  Learned it, loved it.. </p><p>If it ain't hard, it ain't worth doing.  What you people SOOOOOOO Often forget about a "lvl 14 twinked fully AA'd (as if that's possible) is basically in godmode" is that he has opponents that are YELLOW, and ORANGE TO HIM!!  What?!?!  A higher level opponent? what's that?!?!  </p><p>for example... i'm leveling my 13 inquis today in darklight woods 2.  I'm going for a named.. get jumped by two 16 slayer rangers, i'm with a 15 coercer.  We fight.. we kill them.  I expect them to come back for my friend, who didn't die in the encounter.. and they do.  Fine.. what i didn't expect was for them to come and grief me when i was already on recent, and they had nothing to gain.  K.. two 16's.. so i got my 20 brigand and hunted their arses down.  As one of them laid on the ground in front of me, unconcious but alive, and i /no'd him 20 times while tea bagging him... i think he got the point that he shouldn't grief people.</p><p>Twinking and locking at level X means NOTHING. There are ALWAYS higher level guys just as twinked, just as ready to push your face in.</p><p>On to your silly points:</p><p>There is a stat cap, you know.. with diminishing returns.</p><p>How are you going to cap AA by level when max AA > max level?  Why don't we also cap tradeskill level.  And how about guild level?   Me thinks someone got a big bag of caps for christmas, and is trying to find out what he can do with them... </p><p> Only thing i agree with you here, SORT OF, is that the mounts should be fixed.  Instead of giving flat numbers, they should give a scaleable number so that the benefit to me at lvl 16 is the same at lvl 66.  A percentage of my max resists, and/or skills.  So that at low levels i don't get an inordinate amount of benefit from it, and at high levels it's not pointless.... and scales when the game levels up. </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry gang, but they aren't doing it for the challenge, they're doing it to farm toons for easy faction.  At least admit that much before you start disparaging the comments of those who are upset about it here.  To the OP:  there's really nothing you can do about this.  Quest as much as you can, level up and get some AAs along the way and get out.  T2 pvp is a wasteland and a complete waste of your time.  Just avoid the combats as best you can, use a little smarts and it'll keep you from getting ganked too much, and sooner than you think you'll be able to wave bye-bye to the overly twinked epeens of T2 and not look back. </blockquote><p> It's most DEFINATELY for the faction.  But you dont' get faction from griefing people.. so conduct should still apply.</p><p>But 75% of the people i grouped with in T2 didn't make champion because we were fighting island gear'd noobs in the caves.</p><p>THERE IS a challenge to low level pvp.  There is a lot of fun, and exciting battles going on.  You don't want to do it, you don't want to participate.. fine.. you will be a casualty until you twink at SOME point. </p><p>You folks need to accept that pvp means being at your best at all times, and being ready to fight.. always.  If you're not making your character as best he/she can be at all levels, then you're not trying.  So don't share what your opinion of pvp is.. because you're not TRYING to pvp.  I hate to say "cry more noobs", because it seems callous.. but to be perfectly honest:</p><p>If you come to a pvp server and don't gear up, and get your spells/ca's up.. if you don't try to find a good pvp group and quest/level with them and pvp with them.. then you're just not trying.  You're giving up.. like this guy above.. and saying: "shrug, guess i'll die more.. i hate those [Removed for Content] lockers because they kill me after putting way more work and energy into their toons than i'm willing to put into mine!!!"</p><p>so while i hate to say "cry more noobs", it does sometimes apply.</p>

[Oneira]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote> </blockquote><p>I think people OVER ESTIMATE the effect that it has on the game.  I started on pvp, my first EQ2 experience, first MMO.  Learned it, loved it.. </p><p>If it ain't hard, it ain't worth doing.  What you people SOOOOOOO Often forget about a "lvl 14 twinked fully AA'd (as if that's possible) is basically in godmode" is that he has opponents that are YELLOW, and ORANGE TO HIM!!  What?!?!  A higher level opponent? what's that?!?!  </p><p>for example... i'm leveling my 13 inquis today in darklight woods 2.  I'm going for a named.. get jumped by two 16 slayer rangers, i'm with a 15 coercer.  We fight.. we kill them.  I expect them to come back for my friend, who didn't die in the encounter.. and they do.  Fine.. what i didn't expect was for them to come and grief me when i was already on recent, and they had nothing to gain.  K.. two 16's.. so i got my 20 brigand and hunted their arses down.  As one of them laid on the ground in front of me, unconcious but alive, and i /no'd him 20 times while tea bagging him... i think he got the point that he shouldn't grief people.</p><p>Twinking and locking at level X means NOTHING. There are ALWAYS higher level guys just as twinked, just as ready to push your face in.</p> </blockquote> Now wait a minute.  I think you underestimate the effect it has.  Sure, you just happened to have the perfect toon at the perfect level who is probably very well equipped to handle these two griefers.  A 20 brigand vs a couple of 16 rangers?  hahah come on...you can track them, they can't track you, etc. etc. As for your second argument, yes, a level 14 twinked fully AA'd opponent has yellow and orange opponents and...unless they are comparably geared, he'll beat them too.  Level locking-Twinkie pvp is not game-breaking, but it's a drag for anyone in t2 who doesn't want to be funneled into the same mould. 

[deepruntramp]

Unfortunately that's not how the game is played, Bozidar. By your logic, people should continually be trying to out-level eachother to get the upper hand, thus resulting in a healthy population at 70. Instead, we see an enormous popluation which remains at T2. While your logic is sound, and having a higher level alt is fun to get revenge, that's not how the game is played. The T2 lockers simply run away, zone/instance hop, or just take the death and go back to looking for unfair fights. That's probably due to how expensive T2 twink equipment and spells are. If I had dumped 15plat+ on loot for my teens, you better as hell believe I'd stay in the teens for as long as I could. It's a vicious, stupid cycle, and the PvP game needs a kick in the [Removed for Content] to get out of this rut.

[Oneira]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry gang, but they aren't doing it for the challenge, they're doing it to farm toons for easy faction.  At least admit that much before you start disparaging the comments of those who are upset about it here.  To the OP:  there's really nothing you can do about this.  Quest as much as you can, level up and get some AAs along the way and get out.  T2 pvp is a wasteland and a complete waste of your time.  Just avoid the combats as best you can, use a little smarts and it'll keep you from getting ganked too much, and sooner than you think you'll be able to wave bye-bye to the overly twinked epeens of T2 and not look back. </blockquote><p> It's most DEFINATELY for the faction.  But you dont' get faction from griefing people.. so conduct should still apply.</p><p>But 75% of the people i grouped with in T2 didn't make champion because we were fighting island gear'd noobs in the caves.</p><p>THERE IS a challenge to low level pvp.  There is a lot of fun, and exciting battles going on.  You don't want to do it, you don't want to participate.. fine.. you will be a casualty until you twink at SOME point. </p><p>You folks need to accept that pvp means being at your best at all times, and being ready to fight.. always.  If you're not making your character as best he/she can be at all levels, then you're not trying.  So don't share what your opinion of pvp is.. because you're not TRYING to pvp.  I hate to say "cry more noobs", because it seems callous.. but to be perfectly honest:</p><p>If you come to a pvp server and don't gear up, and get your spells/ca's up.. if you don't try to find a good pvp group and quest/level with them and pvp with them.. then you're just not trying.  You're giving up.. like this guy above.. and saying: "shrug, guess i'll die more.. i hate those [I cannot control my vocabulary] lockers because they kill me after putting way more work and energy into their toons than i'm willing to put into mine!!!"</p><p>so while i hate to say "cry more noobs", it does sometimes apply.</p></blockquote>Do not deflect the issue.  We are talking about t2 here, not about pvp in general.  In t2, many players do not and will not have the opportunity to equip themselves out the way that they will in higher tiers.  In t2, many of the twinks are those who have higher toons with lots of plat who basically buy their god-mode up front.   More work and energy?  yeah, right. Sure, you can try and suffer through t2 until you manage to get all the gear and spell/CA upgrades necessary to compete, or you can move onto the next tier where more classes become competitive pvp-wise and where better gear is more easily obtainable. And please quit the cry more routine.  It's insulting.

[Fratzz]

As a newbie to the game (few months now), I was more than once at the point to cancel my subscription, because of the constant "gankage". Now having arrived at T4, with a decent bunch of AAs under my hat, I find the game fun again and enjoy every second of it. Still cant see the fun of twinked, higher level, AA farmed groups ganking greens though, where is the challenge? Anyone still remember the Doom god mode password?

[Norrsken]

Fratzz@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>As a newbie to the game (few months now), I was more than once at the point to cancel my subscription, because of the constant "gankage". Now having arrived at T4, with a decent bunch of AAs under my hat, I find the game fun again and enjoy every second of it. Still cant see the fun of twinked, higher level, AA farmed groups ganking greens though, where is the challenge? Anyone still remember the Doom god mode password?</blockquote>iddqd I think it was. idkfa was all keys and full ammo.

[Norrsken]

Meh, the worst twinks are imho the ones in t2. That is were you are a god compared to the ones that didnt twink. That is also where 4 levels is a great chunk of your total levels, so those 4 levels will make a huge difference. Also, new players to pvp will stroll in here and well, be faced with groups of demigods. I can understand if they get frustrated and leave over it, since even if you've played EQ2 since release on a pve server, that has done nothing to prepare you for the slaughter that a pvp fight is, if one is a veteran and one is a newb. By t3 most people usually picked up a few hints and skills along the way, and in t3, its a lot easier to avoid the roaming bands of gank crews, not the least depending on the fact that t3 locked groups are basically nowhere to be seen, since everyone stays in t2 now. In t7, where everyone sits locked at 70, in raid gear or pvp gear, and are vastly more powerful than the poor schmucks coming up to join them, its basically the same story as in t2. Only, by that time, the gankee should have learned a few things about pvp. The first lesson being; You <i>will</i> die. Often to very unfair odds. So, how to "fix" t2 pvp? Just make t2 a no reward land in pvp. No faction, no status and no fame/infamy/notoriety. People would leave t2 immideately.

[CresentBlade]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Meh, the worst twinks are imho the ones in t2. That is were you are a god compared to the ones that didnt twink. That is also where 4 levels is a great chunk of your total levels, so those 4 levels will make a huge difference. Also, new players to pvp will stroll in here and well, be faced with groups of demigods. I can understand if they get frustrated and leave over it, since even if you've played EQ2 since release on a pve server, that has done nothing to prepare you for the slaughter that a pvp fight is, if one is a veteran and one is a newb. By t3 most people usually picked up a few hints and skills along the way, and in t3, its a lot easier to avoid the roaming bands of gank crews, not the least depending on the fact that t3 locked groups are basically nowhere to be seen, since everyone stays in t2 now. In t7, where everyone sits locked at 70, in raid gear or pvp gear, and are vastly more powerful than the poor schmucks coming up to join them, its basically the same story as in t2. Only, by that time, the gankee should have learned a few things about pvp. The first lesson being; You <i>will</i> die. Often to very unfair odds. <span style="font-size: large">So, how to "fix" t2 pvp? Just make t2 a no reward land in pvp. No faction, no status and no fame/infamy/notoriety. People would leave t2 immideately. </span></blockquote>I would pay to see that, omg to funny<img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[deepruntramp]

Title caps by Tiers would help alot too. Again look at WoW -- you get piddly for Honor to begin with and it slowly ramps up til the level cap. In WoW's old PvP system of ranks, which is alot like EQ2's system now, you simply couldn't access the highest titles without being at the level cap. Same thing should happen in EQ2. Sure, there'll always be morons who want to gank newbs, but making Hunter as good of a title as they'll ever get in T2 will drive away the title [Removed for Content] who are looking for godmode kills in the first place.

[Norrsken]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Title caps by Tiers would help alot too. Again look at WoW -- you get piddly for Honor to begin with and it slowly ramps up til the level cap. In WoW's old PvP system of ranks, which is alot like EQ2's system now, you simply couldn't access the highest titles without being at the level cap. Same thing should happen in EQ2. Sure, there'll always be morons who want to gank newbs, but making Hunter as good of a title as they'll ever get in T2 will drive away the title [Removed for Content] who are looking for godmode kills in the first place.</blockquote>A lot of people lock there to farm faction as well.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So, how to "fix" t2 pvp? Just make t2 a no reward land in pvp. No faction, no status and no fame/infamy/notoriety. People would leave t2 immideately. </blockquote><p> Explain the level 20 PVP gear requiring 7500 faction.  If it wasn't for the insane fact that we have to gain an insane amount of kills by level 20 just to get our first pvp "reward" (I dont really count titles and the other bs, but the status is pretty nice to gain not just for mine, but my guild's benefit as well).  And just for the record, I'm not actually locked :p  Just taking my time levelling by quests, I'm hopinh to have 30+ aa by level 20, that's the goal, not to gank island gear noobs (as someone previously stated, you dont make destroyer / champ + by ganking 'newbs', especially since by alot of people's logic, 'newbs' are at such a disadvantage they CANNOT gain titles, let alone that required for champ +, kindof a self defeating argument.</p><p>Make pvp gear more attainable by less shady means, and I am sure a number of people would level up...just slowly, because I know that most of my brothers and sisters in my guild are meticulous in their quest for AA and to make their toon as good as possible.</p>

[Norrsken]

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So, how to "fix" t2 pvp? Just make t2 a no reward land in pvp. No faction, no status and no fame/infamy/notoriety. People would leave t2 immideately. </blockquote><p> Explain the level 20 PVP gear requiring 7500 faction.  If it wasn't for the insane fact that we have to gain an insane amount of kills by level 20 just to get our first pvp "reward" (I dont really count titles and the other bs, but the status is pretty nice to gain not just for mine, but my guild's benefit as well).  And just for the record, I'm not actually locked :p  Just taking my time levelling by quests, I'm hopinh to have 30+ aa by level 20, that's the goal, not to gank island gear noobs (as someone previously stated, you dont make destroyer / champ + by ganking 'newbs', especially since by alot of people's logic, 'newbs' are at such a disadvantage they CANNOT gain titles, let alone that required for champ +, kindof a self defeating argument.</p><p>Make pvp gear more attainable by less shady means, and I am sure a number of people would level up...just slowly, because I know that most of my brothers and sisters in my guild are meticulous in their quest for AA and to make their toon as good as possible.</p></blockquote>Back when the servers were new, 7.5k faction could be attained in a week or two from just going out and pvping. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The problem nowadays is probably the -10k faction starting point. Put it at 0 and everything would be quite alright. And what stops you from grinding faction in t3? I personally feel t2 should be left to the noobs, so they can get a fair foothold on the pvp servers.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<p>I'm still grinding in tier2, it's freakin hard.  As far as the guys from Qeynos in our lovely DWL since launch...you guys realise they are there for AA as much as the next person, not just to gank?  Most I have seen have been as someone previously stated, grouping to do quests, because coming in there solo is nuts.  Oh...that level 12 mystic...that dude is a BEAST.</p><p>Oh, the reason I started posting this time:  My point was that by the time I get to tier 3, I WILL have the faction, and the AA.  At that point I will continue as I am now, quest grindage with pvp at every given opportunity.</p>

[Norrsken]

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I'm still grinding in tier2, it's freakin hard.  As far as the guys from Qeynos in our lovely DWL since launch...you guys realise they are there for AA as much as the next person, not just to gank?  Most I have seen have been as someone previously stated, grouping to do quests, because coming in there solo is nuts.  Oh...that level 12 mystic...that dude is a BEAST.</p><p>Oh, the reason I started posting this time:  My point was that by the time I get to tier 3, I WILL have the faction, and the AA.  At that point I will continue as I am now, quest grindage with pvp at every given opportunity.</p></blockquote>Im soloing my defiler in DLW and Im not having one least bit of a problem with pvp tbh. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And yah, you will have this and that, and then we can try and fighure out how many just gave up on EQ2 pvp due to demigods roaming their hunting grounds.

[Image_Vain]

Instead of giving my usual "Non constructive post" I'll actually attempted to give a good solution, to the ganking / lvl locking. 1: Remove LvL lock completely from PvP or, every time you die, you lose EXP and can de-lvl, you would also lose fame, even from NPCs. 2: increase the Stats on lvl 20+ AQ armor. 3: If you attack the same player within 10 minutes, you lose fame. 4: Add zones that if so many NPCs/Players are killed in that area, a census, will come up saying that "This area is under Freeport Control" causing the Enemy unable to attack first, and vice versa, of course there would be contested where theres open pvp, or neutral zones where no one can attack. 5: To make sure that players don't just stay in neutral areas, most quests would be in hostile grounds, Qeynos/Freeport/Contested.

[D-DevilK]

<ul><li>Rolling around in an X4 to kill solo's and groups in T7 can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous", or "wrong".</li><li>Sitting on top of walls and other difficult-to-reach areas and firing volleys of arrows or launching fireballs can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous, or "wrong".</li><li>Zerging happens everywhere. It can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous, or "wrong".</li><li>People can obtain 70% and higher resists in T7, giving melee classes an unfair advantage. Tell me that is not "wrong".</li></ul>In conclusion. [Removed for Content] happens everywhere. Certain things shouldn't happen. If I want to lock my toon at 20 and make him as strong as possible, so he has cheap and easy to gain PvP gear from 20-70 onwards, then thats my prerogative. You have no right to legislate what is moral and what is not. I'm willing to bet this thread came on because you were, are currently are, a victim of Twinks. Suck it up and move along. They are here to stay. If you want to level to 70 and enjoy your monotonies SS camping, TT spire hugging, Cloud camping PvP, then do so. But I would rather see all of what the game has to offer. Just because you are level 70 doesn't make you better than me.

[Oneira]

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So, how to "fix" t2 pvp? Just make t2 a no reward land in pvp. No faction, no status and no fame/infamy/notoriety. People would leave t2 immideately. </blockquote><p> Explain the level 20 PVP gear requiring 7500 faction.  If it wasn't for the insane fact that we have to gain an insane amount of kills by level 20 just to get our first pvp "reward" (I dont really count titles and the other bs, but the status is pretty nice to gain not just for mine, but my guild's benefit as well).  And just for the record, I'm not actually locked :p  Just taking my time levelling by quests, I'm hopinh to have 30+ aa by level 20, that's the goal, not to gank island gear noobs (as someone previously stated, you dont make destroyer / champ + by ganking 'newbs', especially since by alot of people's logic, 'newbs' are at such a disadvantage they CANNOT gain titles, let alone that required for champ +, kindof a self defeating argument.</p><p>Make pvp gear more attainable by less shady means, and I am sure a number of people would level up...just slowly, because I know that most of my brothers and sisters in my guild are meticulous in their quest for AA and to make their toon as good as possible.</p></blockquote>I agree with you about this 100%.  Starting everyone at -10,000 faction and forcing them to get +7500 faction before they can buy a bloody potion encouranges level-locking and farming like nothing else.  That's 500 kills minimum. It's high time SOE changed this, it sucks.  Make the progression of available pvp gear more gradual.

[MadTexan3]

Guthix@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><ul><li>Rolling around in an X4 to kill solo's and groups in T7 can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous", or "wrong".</li><li>Sitting on top of walls and other difficult-to-reach areas and firing volleys of arrows or launching fireballs can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous, or "wrong".</li><li>Zerging happens everywhere. It can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous, or "wrong".</li><li>People can obtain 70% and higher resists in T7, giving melee classes an unfair advantage. Tell me that is not "wrong".</li></ul>In conclusion. [I cannot control my vocabulary] happens everywhere. Certain things shouldn't happen. If I want to lock my toon at 20 and make him as strong as possible, so he has cheap and easy to gain PvP gear from 20-70 onwards, then thats my prerogative. You have no right to legislate what is moral and what is not. I'm willing to bet this thread came on because you were, are currently are, a victim of Twinks. Suck it up and move along. They are here to stay. If you want to level to 70 and enjoy your monotonies SS camping, TT spire hugging, Cloud camping PvP, then do so. But I would rather see all of what the game has to offer. Just because you are level 70 doesn't make you better than me. </blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>I played on PVP servers in WoW for over a year and there was always a part of the player base that burned to the top ASAP, got the best gear available and then cried when those 9 levels lower than them weren't anxious to get into the battlegrounds with them to play punching bag. Boohoo, no one wants to level up and let me beat them down for free honorable kills... <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Locking in the lower tiers is popular because just about anyone can farm enough cash and/or materials to get really great gear relatively soon, whereas at the top it takes a <i>lot</i> more effort (time <i>and</i> money) to get equivalent gear and while you're trying to get it you're getting mowed down by those who burned up to the top, got geared and now have nothing better to do than use the tactics that Guthix lists above.</p><p>Essentially, in lower tiers there's a lot more equality in gear than there is at the top, so no one should be surprised that so many lock and enjoy PVP there as long as they can.</p>

[deepruntramp]

Guthix@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><ul><li>Rolling around in an X4 to kill solo's and groups in T7 can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous", or "wrong".</li><li>Sitting on top of walls and other difficult-to-reach areas and firing volleys of arrows or launching fireballs can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous, or "wrong".</li><li>Zerging happens everywhere. It can be called "cheap", or "ridiculous, or "wrong".</li><li>People can obtain 70% and higher resists in T7, giving melee classes an unfair advantage. Tell me that is not "wrong".</li></ul></blockquote> Decent points, but considering most new players go PvE or quit the game entirely before even hitting T7, I think it's wiser to first fix the early experience. SoE doesn't seem to have a clear strategy about how they want to balance the PvP game.  I'll go ahead and suggest one: -Funnel players to the level cap. -Balance PvP at the level cap first. -Then balance outstanding issues below the level cap. Right now we're not to the "funnel" part yet.  There is too much incentive to stay locked somewhere between level 14-24.  The changes I've suggested previously in this thread would properly "funnel" players to the level cap.  <b>It would not prevent players who enjoy PvP at that tier from staying in that tier to PvP!  </b>Unlike many others, I don't find a problem with locking combat experience insofar as I find a problem with the rewards you can gain from locking combat XP.  People who genuinely enjoy twinking lowbies may continue to do so -- however, the playing field will be drastically more even.  Twinks in MC/Fabled will have an advantage over new players, but it will not be to the staggering, haha-I-one-shotted-you/haha-you-can't-scratch-me degree that it is today. The rest of your post was trolling "suck it up/cry harder" nonsense and hence ignored.  Put your [Removed for Content] away and zip up.

[Vendi]

I really find it funny that people get so upset on both sides of this subject. I have been playing on PvP server since they opened up and have not, and will not go back to a PvE server. I have always lvl locked my toons for one reason, so my friends and I can always group together. We have groups in each tier so we can play whatever we feel like playing when everyone is on. I have never had a title above Destroyer, and the only toon I have that has Faction is lvl 56 and that's just over 10000, useless to me. As long as you cannot PvP and mentor at the same time, lvl locking is the only way friends like us can continue to play together and have fun with PvP. It's not the lvl locking that needs to be fixed it's the ganking. I think the idea of losing faction if you kill someone that is still on recent list is a great idea, but what is to stop someone from coming after you once you killed them and then you kill them again. I also think that you should not only gain XP from PvP kills but you should also be able to gain AA in some way (I always thought it would be nice to buy AA through faction). This way you can make toons for PvP only and that might increase the number of people willing to get in a PvP group to take on the dreaded lvl locking twinks. Most of the time the non-hardcore PvPers are too busy doing quests to lvl past these guys. If there was a way to do PvP and lvl at the same time I think more people would take on these gank groups.

[deepruntramp]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>Essentially, in lower tiers there's a lot more equality in gear than there is at the top, so no one should be surprised that so many lock and enjoy PVP there as long as they can. </p></blockquote>The problem is that it makes the point of entry for newbs way, way too high.  If people were locking at T3-T6, it'd be less of an issue than a new player dinging 10 in Darklight Wood, seeing "(14) Destroyer Buttholecancer" charging them on a flaming mount, and being dead in a hit. Seriously... no one wants to harvest for a week just to meet the bare minimum requirements of survival and competition right out of the gate.  Keywords here being "right out of the gate."  As the game progresses, people will either like  the world, mechanics, or community enough to put forth that kind of effort,  but after only two hours of play, when you barely  understand your character  and the individual classes in archetypes are hardl y different from eachother?  Not really.

[Rattfa]

IMO level locking itself isnt the problem, and there are too many Pros for locking to have it removed completely. There is too much content in EQ2 through all levels to see it all....being on a PvP server doesnt mean you cant enjoy PvE content at the same time. Got a new friend started playing, and you want to wait for them to catch up...lock xp. Want a particular peice of gear from an instance/dungeon, lock xp and farm until you find it. On the other hand, there are issues with other things, but people tend to point their fingers at level locking first as though it is some kind of evil that needs cleansing. <b>Killing yourself at a guard over and over until you get 50% xp debt allowing you to complete quests, and gain AA without levelling. That is a problem that needs looking into. I consider this an exploit, as I am sure Devs never considered that XP debt might be used in such ways.</b> <b> Completing book quest, lore and legend quests and language quests while dead, so you gain AA but not XP. This is a bug that's being exploited. It needs looking into. </b> I'm sure I could come up with more, given time, but if the above 2 items were fixed then the level locked twinks wouldnt be as much of a problem as they are now. Seeing lvl20s with 40, 50, 60 AAs is just disgusting, and completely unbalancing the game at lower tiers.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<p>Myluvforyou Islikeatruck -- 22 Fae Wizard FP (SHE KILLED A FURY ONCE OHMYGOD) Turnhoff -- 15 Iksar Necromancer FP (NO KILLS YET) Burnemwood -- 13 Iksar Shadowknight FP (NO KILLS YET) <b>PLAYING SINCE 5/21/2007</b> <b>PROUD TO BE ONE SHOTTED BY EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME</b> <b>EVEN CRAFTERS</b> </p><p>What in that really qualifies you to know about anything?  I am hoping this is an alt account or something, because I think for one so quick to pass judgement on the game, you should have a bit more experience than 8 days.  Seriously.  And by 'funnel people to the top' you mean it sucks that you 22 and haven't figured out how to out level 70% of the twinks (they exist in all tiers, especially those at level 58, who imo are worst than tier 2 / 3 locks, because they are locked purely for chance kills for fame and easy tokens, wonder how many brigands (/cough double-up /cough) they have in their group?)  I'll take you xp'ing with my 25 assassin who also is not locked and get you past those mean q's bro.  /thumbsup Oooo your a wizard, I know a good tank and a few healer's.  We'll get you to 30 or so tonight.</p>

[Stew2782]

Just as easy to say that playing to 70 on a PvP server is cheap, ridiculous and wrong because at that point you are level locked (by the game mechanics) and the imbalance in spells/CA's and gear is far greater than at previous teirs. That's not a position I'd try to defend myself to be honest, each to their own... but to say the reverse is equally absurd. Many people, myself included, enjoy the lower end of the game far more than the higher teirs... not because it's easier to prey on unprepaired noobs (like there are lots of those running around!), but for a variety of reasons such as: 1. Far less time needs to be invested in crafting support (I'm here to pvp) 2. I can easily level many different classes to T3/4 (I like to experiment) 3. There's plenty of combat at these levels against <b>evenly matched</b> opponents 4. Gear and class abilities are far more evenly balanced at these teirs 5. Opponents are OFTEN <b>higher</b> level than you And that's just getting started.... despite playing EQ2 almost from launch and PvP since it started I have only one T7 char and even then he's nowhere near 70. Why? Because pvp at T7 is just nowhere near as FUN for me as it was in the mid teirs, so I find myself repeatedly going back with characters to play there. Play the game the way you want and have fun, but let others do the same.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>IMO level locking itself isnt the problem, and there are too many Pros for locking to have it removed completely. There is too much content in EQ2 through all levels to see it all....being on a PvP server doesnt mean you cant enjoy PvE content at the same time. Got a new friend started playing, and you want to wait for them to catch up...lock xp. Want a particular peice of gear from an instance/dungeon, lock xp and farm until you find it. On the other hand, there are issues with other things, but people tend to point their fingers at level locking first as though it is some kind of evil that needs cleansing. <b>Killing yourself at a guard over and over until you get 50% xp debt allowing you to complete quests, and gain AA without levelling. That is a problem that needs looking into. I consider this an exploit, as I am sure Devs never considered that XP debt might be used in such ways.</b> <b> Completing book quest, lore and legend quests and language quests while dead, so you gain AA but not XP. This is a bug that's being exploited. It needs looking into. </b> I'm sure I could come up with more, given time, but if the above 2 items were fixed then the level locked twinks wouldnt be as much of a problem as they are now. Seeing lvl20s with 40, 50, 60 AAs is just disgusting, and completely unbalancing the game at lower tiers. </blockquote> Believe it or not, I agree 100%.  It's nice to have a crap load of aa at lower levels, but its annoying as heck that to be really competitive, you basically need to do these things, to keep you on par with the opposing faction.  I was suprised when I saw this being done...was like...[Removed for Content]? /blink.  Of course then again, I debted up to keep even.

[MadTexan3]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is that it makes the point of entry for newbs way, way too high.  If people were locking at T3-T6, it'd be less of an issue than a new player dinging 10 in Darklight Wood, seeing "(14) Destroyer Buttholecancer" charging them on a flaming mount, and being dead in a hit. Seriously... no one wants to harvest for a week just to meet the bare minimum requirements of survival and competition right out of the gate.  Keywords here being "right out of the gate."  As the game progresses, people will either like  the world, mechanics, or community enough to put forth that kind of effort,  but after only two hours of play, when you barely  understand your character  and the individual classes in archetypes are hardl y different from eachother?  Not really. </blockquote>The situation at the top end is no different though and is effectively worse. Why? It doesn't matter how well you know your class, you're still going to get curbstomped due to gear differences and it's going to take a <i>lot</i> longer to bridge that gear gap than it does in the lower tiers.

[Rattfa]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is that it makes the point of entry for newbs way, way too high.  If people were locking at T3-T6, it'd be less of an issue than a new player dinging 10 in Darklight Wood, seeing "(14) Destroyer Buttholecancer" charging them on a flaming mount, and being dead in a hit. Seriously... no one wants to harvest for a week just to meet the bare minimum requirements of survival and competition right out of the gate.  Keywords here being "right out of the gate."  As the game progresses, people will either like  the world, mechanics, or community enough to put forth that kind of effort,  but after only two hours of play, when you barely  understand your character  and the individual classes in archetypes are hardl y different from eachother?  Not really. </blockquote>The situation at the top end is no different though and is effectively worse. Why? It doesn't matter how well you know your class, you're still going to get curbstomped due to gear differences and it's going to take a <i>lot</i> longer to bridge that gear gap than it does in the lower tiers.</blockquote> Not really. With diminishing returns the gear gap is smaller then you might think. Regardless, it isnt difficult to get good Eof Legendary and KoS Fabled gear when you hit T7...there are groups doing instance and dungeon runs ALL the time, and if you get the chance to do some raids, then getting gear is no problem. PvP fabled gear is available to everybody who puts in the time. In addition, cash flow in T7 is such that you can gear up pretty easily. T7 with one or two exceptions, is far mor balanced than at lower levels.

[WasFycksir]

<p>1.  It's my money, I will play how I want as long as there is no violation of the EULA.</p><p>2.  I started on Nagafen on 7/1/06, with a toon named Cayman, a DE coercer.  I knew NOONE on the server and would never even consider buying plat.  And now he is 47 has ok equipment and a too small number of AA's.  Too few AA's because I had no concept of level locking when I got to Nagafen.  But guess what, he is still a fun and useful toon, and so is my 42 necro, Ogizzard.  The necro is has a ton of AA, I think 54, that's because now I know better.  The point is you can start from scratch, even if you didn't start from day 1 on the server.  Try working and fighting for what you want to achieve instead of whining, and you may be suprised at what you can accomplish.</p><p>3.  I have been through much of the level 50+ content (Narral, Mistmoore) and I just don't care to do it again tyvm.  DOF was ok, but the rest /shrug.  I want to PVP and deal with PVE as a means to an end only.</p><p>4.  It sucks to die (see above, non twinked coercer), but do get mad, get even.  Start a new toon, be smart and get max AA's, good gear and make the other dude do the face plant.</p><p>5.  It's more of a challenge (imo) to max AA's in T2/3/4 than to get to level 70.  If you tried, I bet you could level to 70 in instances and nearly never have a PVP fight.  Try hunting Lore & Legend body parts in an open zone and see how calm your day will be LOL.  And that's the kind of action that makes PVP fun.</p><p>6.  The overall system is by default, fair.  We all have to play under the exact same rules.  Any given twink had to start from square one at some point.  I am NOT saying there isn't some imbalance in the classes, because there clearly is.  I am also not saying some zones are very poorly designed for PVP, but again, same ruleset for all.</p><p>My profile is not locked, feel free to look up my toons.  Remember, it's just a game.  Have fun with it, however you see fit is what I say.</p>

[MadTexan3]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Not really. With diminishing returns the gear gap is smaller then you might think.</blockquote><p>So a Paladin in Mastercrafted can take on a Brigand in Fabled?</p><p><a href="mailto:Rattface@Nagafen" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rattface@Nagafen</a> wrote: </p><blockquote>Regardless, it isnt difficult to get good Eof Legendary and KoS Fabled gear when you hit T7...there are groups doing instance and dungeon runs ALL the time, and if you get the chance to do some raids, then getting gear is no problem.</blockquote><p>My point still stands, it's a lot easier to get good gear in the lower tiers than in T7, especially if you consider Mastercrafted the bare minimum for PVP (and I don't know anyone who wants just Treasured for PVP):</p><p><b><u>T2-3</u></b></p><ul><li>There are places you can harvest without the constant threat of being jumped</li><li>Rares are fairly easy to harvest yourself</li></ul><p><b><u>T7</u></b></p><ul><li>Harvesting your own rares means you're going to get jumped, a lot</li><li>Rares are actually sort of rare</li></ul><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>PvP fabled gear is available to everybody who puts in the time.</blockquote><p>True, but if you're getting beat down then you're not getting the faction, are you?</p><p><a href="mailto:Rattface@Nagafen" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rattface@Nagafen</a> wrote: </p><blockquote>T7 with one or two exceptions, is far mor balanced than at lower levels. </blockquote>So, again that Paladin in Mastercrafted can take on a Brigand in Fabled?

[Rattfa]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Not really. With diminishing returns the gear gap is smaller then you might think.</blockquote><p>So a Paladin in Mastercrafted can take on a Brigand in Fabled?</p><p><a href="mailto:Rattface@Nagafen" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rattface@Nagafen</a> wrote: </p><blockquote>Regardless, it isnt difficult to get good Eof Legendary and KoS Fabled gear when you hit T7...there are groups doing instance and dungeon runs ALL the time, and if you get the chance to do some raids, then getting gear is no problem.</blockquote><p>My point still stands, it's a lot easier to get good gear in the lower tiers than in T7, especially if you consider Mastercrafted the bare minimum for PVP (and I don't know anyone who wants just Treasured for PVP):</p><p><b><u>T2-3</u></b></p><ul><li>There are places you can harvest without the constant threat of being jumped</li><li>Rares are fairly easy to harvest yourself</li></ul><p><b><u>T7</u></b></p><ul><li>Harvesting your own rares means you're going to get jumped, a lot</li><li>Rares are actually sort of rare</li></ul><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>PvP fabled gear is available to everybody who puts in the time.</blockquote><p>True, but if you're getting beat down then you're not getting the faction, are you?</p><p><a href="mailto:Rattface@Nagafen" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rattface@Nagafen</a> wrote: </p><blockquote>T7 with one or two exceptions, is far mor balanced than at lower levels. </blockquote>So, again that Paladin in Mastercrafted can take on a Brigand in Fabled?</blockquote> If you're soloing then I have no sympathy. GROUP PvP is very balanced. With such vastly different classes, with strengths and weaknesses, solo PvP will never be an even balance across the board. Maybe you should play SWG (NGE) if that's what you want. If you're at level 70 in mastercrafted gear, then you're a noob. Like I said, it's EASY to get good legendary and fabled gear at 70. Cashflow is such that you can buy rares for when you ding 62 and you dont need to harvest at all. Infact it's probably cheaper to buy early T7 Legendary anyway Could a MC Pally beat a fabled Brig? Probably not, depending on who is behind the characters. But would the Pally win in T2 or 3? Again, probably not. Don't try to disguise the fact you're a terrible PvPer by claiming that T7 PvP is completely unbalanced. You like having 'power' over noobs in t1 treasured gear because you can't play with that big boys. THAT is unbalanced. BTW, do you have a character in t7? Do you have a character on PvP? Eq2players thinks not.

[MadTexan3]

<p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>If you're soloing then I have no sympathy. GROUP PvP is very balanced. With such vastly different classes, with strengths and weaknesses, solo PvP will never be an even balance across the board. Maybe you should play SWG (NGE) if that's what you want.</blockquote><p>Ah, so 6 Coercers vs. 6 Brigands is balanced PVP because they are in a group?</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>If you're at level 70 in mastercrafted gear, then you're a noob. Like I said, it's EASY to get good legendary and fabled gear at 70. Cashflow is such that you can buy rares for when you ding 62 and you dont need to harvest at all. Infact it's probably cheaper to buy early T7 Legendary anyway. </blockquote><p>You're focusing purely on the cash side and not the time side, beyond discounting the fact that you have to invest time to get the cash to begin with.</p><p>Going back to what I said earlier, there is no way it takes less time to get good gear in T7 than it does in T2-3, period, and the <i>time</i> aspect is why so many prefer the lower tiers. Seriously, not everyone gets to sit down and play this game for 6+ hours 7 days a week, 52 weeks per year.</p><p>EDIT: Just what level of gear should I be expected to have while I'm trying to get the cash to buy those Legendaries at 62nd level?</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>Could a MC Pally beat a fabled Brig? Probably not, depending on who is behind the characters. But would the Pally win in T2 or 3? Again, probably not.</blockquote><p>Well, in T2-3 the chances of it being a Mastercrafted paladin vs. a Fabled brigand are a lot lower and overall their gear would be a lot closer together. Accordingly, the paladin would have a much better chance at actually winning a fight.</p><p> Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>Don't try to disguise the fact you're a terrible PvPer by claiming that T7 PvP is completely unbalanced. You like having 'power' over noobs in t1 treasured gear because you can't play with that big boys. THAT is unbalanced. </blockquote><p>You're making inferences that have no bearing on the main issue I put forward, which is that a lot easier to gear up for the lower levels, taking far less time and cash. That makes it attractive to many players, period.</p><p> Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>BTW, do you have a character in t7? Do you have a character on PvP? Eq2players thinks not.</blockquote><p>I don't have to be a physicist to know that if I drop a pencil here in my office it will fall down and hit the floor. Further, just as an FYI all the personal attacks don't make your points stronger in any way, they only make you look childish.</p>

[Tillious]

-

[Bozidar]

<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now wait a minute.  I think you underestimate the effect it has.  Sure, you just happened to have the perfect toon at the perfect level who is probably very well equipped to handle these two griefers.  A 20 brigand vs a couple of 16 rangers?  hahah come on...you can track them, they can't track you, etc. etc. As for your second argument, yes, a level 14 twinked fully AA'd opponent has yellow and orange opponents and...unless they are comparably geared, he'll beat them too.  Level locking-Twinkie pvp is not game-breaking, but it's a drag for anyone in t2 who doesn't want to be funneled into the same mould.  </blockquote><p> pvp is not for everyone.  It's hard mode, everyone twinks eventually.  I learned this game the hard way, the VERY hard way.  I was that lvl 23 guy in island gear wondering why i died so easy... and i learned how to get better at the game.</p><p>a new player has to make the choice to A) Figure out why he's getting his [Removed for Content] handed to him and learn how to prevent it, or B) Quit.</p><p>For those that quit rather than learn the game, i don't miss them.  They're the type that start threads about "nerf X" and "cap Y".  It's trash players who want to put zero effort into an MMO toon and expect to be on an even setting with everyone around them that make discussions about pvp so difficult.  Sorry, it don't work that way, this isn't counterstrike!  You need to invest.. period.  Learn or leave.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unfortunately that's not how the game is played, Bozidar. By your logic, people should continually be trying to out-level eachother to get the upper hand, thus resulting in a healthy population at 70. Instead, we see an enormous popluation which remains at T2. While your logic is sound, and having a higher level alt is fun to get revenge, that's not how the game is played. The T2 lockers simply run away, zone/instance hop, or just take the death and go back to looking for unfair fights. That's probably due to how expensive T2 twink equipment and spells are. If I had dumped 15plat+ on loot for my teens, you better as hell believe I'd stay in the teens for as long as I could. It's a vicious, stupid cycle, and the PvP game needs a kick in the [I cannot control my vocabulary] to get out of this rut.</blockquote><p> Please don't tell me how T2 pvp is.  I really don't need the lesson.  I'm regularly grouped with guys who wrote the book on it.</p><p>People DO try to outlevel each other.  Check out my signature.  A couple of lvl 20 twinks from a guild called Slash Duel have been handing me my [Removed for Content] since i joined this server.  My team grinds out faction, quest up the levels, and are finally white to them..... and now they tell us they're "going to level", because we pushed their faces in, IMO.  There are people who DO permalock in T2.  But i've been through T2, many times, slowly.. and those people are very few and far between.  So what?  Trust me, the vast majority of peopl in T2 who twink will ineed level up.  There's too much great stuff waiting at higher levels to permalock.. but patience in getting there is rewarded.</p>

[SoulfireUK]

<p>Ball balls and balls</p><p>Level locking isn't <b><u><span style="color: #cc0000">cheap</span></u></b> my 12 locked twink has cost me plenty of plat in masters and rares <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Ganking greys? sure once in a while but I have found that there is great pvp to be had at T2 and T3 fighting other twink level lockers. </p><p>I am sure there are a few Q's that know of my 12 twink Kushiel who defends both the Graveyard and Sunken city from marauding Q's. In fact thats where I earnt my titles defending our lowbie zones. I admit I have fought in the caves once or twice and have died there too.  Ganking is dull but fighting other twinks is great fun. I have a 12, 25 and working on a 17 level locked characters as I have played past theses levels and pvp was far and few between. I have no interest in getting to 70 or soon to be 80 very fast, and why should I?</p><p>[Removed for Content] of at T2 and T3 twinks? hell it only takes a day or so of playing to get past these tiers. So just level past them and leave us to our twinkaged killing.   </p><p>I pay the fee I play how I want. simple.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Oneira wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do not deflect the issue.  We are talking about t2 here, not about pvp in general.  In t2, many players do not and will not have the opportunity to equip themselves out the way that they will in higher tiers.  In t2, many of the twinks are those who have higher toons with lots of plat who basically buy their god-mode up front.   More work and energy?  yeah, right. Sure, you can try and suffer through t2 until you manage to get all the gear and spell/CA upgrades necessary to compete, or you can move onto the next tier where more classes become competitive pvp-wise and where better gear is more easily obtainable. And please quit the cry more routine.  It's insulting. </blockquote><p> What difference does it make what tier your in?  If anything, it's EASIER to outfit yourself in T2 than any other tier.  What the heck are you talking about?</p><p>I started on Nagafen about 2 months ago, no higher level toons, no god mode.  I kicked people's faces in because i harvested my rares, built crafters, and worked with my team because we know pvp.</p><p>And no.. better gear is NOT more easily obtainable, chief.  The best gear in T3?  Pvp gear.. and you need faction to get it.  Guess where the best place to get it is?</p><p>And i'll stop the cry more routine when people stop the "cap everything, gah it just makes me so mad that i don't want to work on my toon!!" routine.  It's just as insulting.</p>

[Rattfa]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>If you're soloing then I have no sympathy. GROUP PvP is very balanced. With such vastly different classes, with strengths and weaknesses, solo PvP will never be an even balance across the board. Maybe you should play SWG (NGE) if that's what you want.</blockquote><p>Ah, so 6 Coercers vs. 6 Brigands is balanced PVP because they are in a group?</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>If you're at level 70 in mastercrafted gear, then you're a noob. Like I said, it's EASY to get good legendary and fabled gear at 70. Cashflow is such that you can buy rares for when you ding 62 and you dont need to harvest at all. Infact it's probably cheaper to buy early T7 Legendary anyway. </blockquote><p>You're focusing purely on the cash side and not the time side, beyond discounting the fact that you have to invest time to get the cash to begin with.</p><p>Going back to what I said earlier, there is no way it takes less time to get good gear in T7 than it does in T2-3, period, and the <i>time</i> aspect is why so many prefer the lower tiers. Seriously, not everyone gets to sit down and play this game for 6+ hours 7 days a week, 52 weeks per year.</p><p>EDIT: Just what level of gear should I be expected to have while I'm trying to get the cash to buy those Legendaries at 62nd level?</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>Could a MC Pally beat a fabled Brig? Probably not, depending on who is behind the characters. But would the Pally win in T2 or 3? Again, probably not.</blockquote><p>Well, in T2-3 the chances of it being a Mastercrafted paladin vs. a Fabled brigand are a lot lower and overall their gear would be a lot closer together. Accordingly, the paladin would have a much better chance at actually winning a fight.</p><p> Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>Don't try to disguise the fact you're a terrible PvPer by claiming that T7 PvP is completely unbalanced. You like having 'power' over noobs in t1 treasured gear because you can't play with that big boys. THAT is unbalanced. </blockquote><p>You're making inferences that have no bearing on the main issue I put forward, which is that a lot easier to gear up for the lower levels, taking far less time and cash. That makes it attractive to many players, period.</p><p> Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>BTW, do you have a character in t7? Do you have a character on PvP? Eq2players thinks not.</blockquote><p>I don't have to be a physicist to know that if I drop a pencil here in my office it will fall down and hit the floor. Further, just as an FYI all the personal attacks don't make your points stronger in any way, they only make you look childish.</p></blockquote> 6 Coercers vs 6 Brigs. NEver seen it, likely never will. You speak of it as a common occurence. Atleast bring something valid to the argument.  Group PvP is pretty [Removed for Content] balanced, Fact! I leveled through T6 while wearing T4 mastercrafted, questing and making a plat a day for a couple of hours work. 7 days a week, 6 hours a day? No where near.  Making  gross exaggerations just to try and prove a point doesnt help your argument.  It's EASY to make money in T7, Fact! No amount of 'oooh i dont have time' makes it any less true. Please point out where I made a personal attack. Calling you a terrible pvper because you like to spank ungeared greens on your twink isnt a personal insult, it's an observation. A fact, if you will. If asking if you have a t7 character, or a PvP character is a personal attack, then....well...*shakes head* BTW, do you have a character in t7? Do you have a character on PvP? Eq2players thinks not.

[Bozidar]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote> And what stops you from grinding faction in t3? I personally feel t2 should be left to the noobs, so they can get a fair foothold on the pvp servers. </blockquote> Why would i gear up my various slots in T3 go to grind up and get the pvp gear to replace them, when it's so much easier to do that work ahead of time and put the gear on as soon as i qualify?

[Bozidar]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Decent points, but considering most new players go PvE or quit the game entirely before even hitting T7, I think it's wiser to first fix the early experience.</blockquote><p>Do you have some kind of numbers and proof to back this up?</p><p>if not, then sthu, and stop making things up for the sake of proving your point.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><b>Killing yourself at a guard over and over until you get 50% xp debt allowing you to complete quests, and gain AA without levelling. That is a problem that needs looking into. I consider this an exploit, as I am sure Devs never considered that XP debt might be used in such ways.</b></blockquote><p>I disagree.  There's no way to complete the quests at your level and get aa for them w/o questing with debt.  Reduce the xp from quests, and we won't have to grind up debt in order to fully explore our levels.</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><b>Completing book quest, lore and legend quests and language quests while dead, so you gain AA but not XP. This is a bug that's being exploited. It needs looking into.</b> </blockquote>As much as i enjoy doing that, i agree with you.  This is a bug, should be fixed.

[Bozidar]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>6 Coercers vs 6 Brigs. NEver seen it, likely never will. You speak of it as a common occurence. Atleast bring something valid to the argument.  Group PvP is pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] balanced, Fact!</blockquote><p>Group PVP is balanced.. until you reach level cap.  6 Rogues > 6 any other combination.  An actual <i>proven </i>fact, not just some supposedly witty guy on the internet saying "fact" to try to sound like he knows what he's talking about.  A test was actually done on this, it's an old thread.. go look it up.</p><p>What you're refusing to admit is that when players get to level 70 they keep <i>virtually </i>leveling, and that's how the game is built -- raid progression.  A player, or even a group of players, who reach lvl 70 are going to be island geared noobs vs a group of guys who have been at level cap a long time and:</p><p>A) Have 100 AA</p><p>B) Have all the potions/materials they need to keep every trick in the book at their disposal</p><p>C) Raid progressed gear way better than a group just leveling up, or full sets of pvp gear</p><p>Don't lie.. it's not going to be a contest.</p><p>T2 pvp is about faction first, IMO. Others do it for other reasons, and perma-lock, but as i said before those are few and far between.  Faction means killing greens, and the grey exiles when they show their faces.  But that doesn't mean that there isn't great pvp available in T2, and it sure as hell is more balanced pvp than T7.</p><p>Let me ask you this hypothetical:</p><p>In T7 if you had 3 rogues and 3 predator vs a rogue, a shaman, a predator and a bruiser -- who would win?</p><p>I already know the answer for T2.  And i know pvp is balanced there.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Btw, for those that suggest rules changes to fix griefing</p><p>It can't be done, and won't be done.  Griefing someone is fixable only one way, in game.  You call friends, you gather a group, and you kill that guy or guys.  If you can't.. then you leave and come back when you can.</p><p>As a rule i don't grief, and encourage those around me not to grief.. even if that encouragement comes with a pointy sword. (ok, that's my favorite way to encourage them)</p>

[Squishy]

<p>Sony likes level lockers. This is a simply fact.   low level pvp gear requires a ton of faction, so you better be....well pvping... i'm pretty sure that if you didn't lock exp you wouldn't even get close to using this low tier pvp gear.    Oh, and have you checked out some of the T2 rare fabled?  Amazingly jacked...  </p><p> I for one, do not have a lvl 70 toon funnelling my character money, do not play a scout, have been locked since lvl 12, and am now lvl 36 with over 50 aas.   In fact I play one of the few classes that no one in their right mind would ever call for a nerf in the lower tiers, a Guardian.   I got a decent amount of plat in the bank, and more than enough pvp faction for my level gear(K to D roughly 1000 to 320 last time i checked, Destroyer).  This is my first character in EQ2 period.</p><p> If you can't handle the pvp enviroment and mechanics, go play on a pve server or play another MMORPG with ones you like.  Enough people love the pvp mechanics here. except for a few minor tweeks, that locking would never be removed.  Maybe the closest you'd ever get is a new pvp server without level locking...but i seriously doubt it would have a population to stand on.  </p><p> The argument that it is driving newbies away is sorta sad and overdone.  First off, if you are new to EQ2, maybe you shouldn't expect a pvp server to baby you until you learn how to play your class.   It can be done, sure, but you should then expect it to be frustrating as hell...but hey baby   trial by fire right?    I remeber my first crazy pvp experience in the caves.  I ran into Serili, a 21 SK at the time, who HT me, a lvl 22 guardian at the time, and insta killed me with a crit.   He did it again 30 minutes later.  I freaked out, spamming the channels with SK nerf calls.  I'd do the same with furies a few level later.   Well let me tell you, I've only been playing since last december, but in my wisdom I've decided it's all pretty balanced and a fun pvp enviroment, so far through all the tiers I've played  t2,t3,t4.  So all classes aren't meant to solo and sometimes you get steamrolled.  It's a beautifully challenging enviroment.  I've been low level for a long time, leveling very slowly through quests, enjoying all sort of low level quests and lore i would never get too otherwise(there is just sooo much!).  I even got a server discovery on naggy on a lvl 25 quest item ^_^.   </p><p> I enjoy level locking and I think it is just balanced and fair. I personally don't care if people stay locked at 17 forever.... I remeber teen pvp as quite exciting and active.  I hope it stays that way.</p><p> Would I quit EQ2 if they removed level locking?  Quite possibly, i'm a brand loyalist, loved EQ1, but level locking and AA makes this different and unique from so many other MMoRPGs, like WoW, that i have no interest in playing.   I know alot of individuals who just don't like T7 pvp and would quit if SoE forced them to level.   I'm going to slowly up to T7, and see for myself, and if i don't like it, i'll probably twink out some lvl 17 scout to play around with.   Thats the game, it has been for a while, hopefully it stays that way.</p>

[MadTexan3]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>6 Coercers vs 6 Brigs. NEver seen it, likely never will. You speak of it as a common occurence. Atleast bring something valid to the argument.  Group PvP is pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] balanced, Fact! </blockquote><p>So it's a bad example. /shrug</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</p><blockquote>I leveled through T6 while wearing T4 mastercrafted, questing and making a plat a day for a couple of hours work. 7 days a week, 6 hours a day? No where near.  Making  gross exaggerations just to try and prove a point doesnt help your argument.  It's EASY to make money in T7, Fact! No amount of 'oooh i dont have time' makes it any less true.</blockquote><p>Why do you insist on ignoring the point I was making?</p><p>Time and money required to level into T7 and gear up >>>>>>> Time and money required to level into T2-3 and gear up</p><p>Can you really not see why those that want to PVP without being at a gear disadvantage will lock at T2-3 and enjoy it?</p><p>Can you really not see that this whole game is about extracting the most fun with the least amount of time spent?</p><p>That you got to T7 and geared up in X amount of time is irrelevant to those who aren't in T7 yet and aren't geared as well as you are.</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</p><blockquote>Please point out where I made a personal attack. Calling you a terrible pvper because you like to spank ungeared greens on your twink isnt a personal insult, it's an observation. A fact, if you will. If asking if you have a t7 character, or a PvP character is a personal attack, then....well...*shakes head*.</blockquote><p>You wrote previously:</p><p><i>"Don't try to disguise the fact you're a terrible PvPer by claiming that T7 PvP is completely unbalanced. You like having 'power' over noobs in t1 treasured gear because you can't play with that big boys. THAT is unbalanced."</i></p><p>That's a personal attack and is no more an 'observation' than if I were to say you are a narrowminded [Removed for Content].</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</p><blockquote>BTW, do you have a character in t7? Do you have a character on PvP? Eq2players thinks not.</blockquote><p>I would have thought that my previous comment made it clear I do not have a character in T7.</p><p>However, per an earlier post I did say that I played on PVP servers in WoW for over a year (with a top tier druid) and the <u>same</u> sort of complaints regarding PVP were voiced there over and over and over.</p><p>The most entertaining? Topped out and full raid/PVP geared players complaining that no one was leveling into their battleground bracket so those players could maintain their honor ratings.</p><p>Conversely, there were very active lower bracket battlegrounds with twinked characters having gear that anyone could reasonably get in a reasonable amount of time and have more than a snowball's chance in a battleground fight.</p>

[Wytie]

Mazzick@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><p>So maybe I'm alone in this, but I seriously think that level locking on pvp servers is highly overrated, cheap, and utterly ridiculous.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Its a choice if you dont like who the F are too tell somebody else how they should play? </span><span style="color: #ff0000"> </span></p><p>Every now and then while in Kelethin (and other cities) I'll see people killing themselves against the guards and respawning and doing it over and over again just to get exp debt.  <span style="color: #ff0000">Does this bother you? Leave the area if you dont want to listen to go out in play instead of stand at the docks or perma imune, I think your just mad cause you got ownd by a grey or green in your handcrafted gear LOL</span></p><p>Why? For the sole purpose of being a low lvl yet high AA having character.  <span style="color: #ff0000">Grats SOE for giving replay ability, Life is a garden DIG IT</span></p><p>Heck, the other day I asked if I could join the guild PvP group but I was too high, and they said ‘you should have a teen level-locked toon just for PvP'. That's ludicurous IMO. <span style="color: #ff0000"> Its they're choice who are you to say its wrong you just mad cause you got rejected <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, get over it wont be the last time thats gona happen </span></p><p>This is obscene. I believe that:  <span style="color: #ff0000">Your god given choice, dont force us to wine with you</span></p><p> A: What SHOULD and DOES matter more when it comes to excelling at PvP is your own personal skill and knowledge at how to play your class; being able to tailor your tactics to any given situation. THAT is what truly matters.<span style="color: #ff0000"> Yes and this can be done after spending lots of time playing a COMBAT XP locked toon, get your facts right there is no such thing as level locked NUB!</span></p><p>B: Level-locking is essentially as cheap as twinking. Sure, you'll slightly outmatch your opponents due to your higher AA, but is that a fair fight? No. It's not. The greatest joys of PvP is engaging in a PC vs. PC or group vs. group battle in which the opponents are evenly matched. The ones where you find yourself and your opponent both with 50 hp left and your heart races with anticipation of a lucky crit or parried blow. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Wow shame on people wanting to be the best they can at there level thats just wrong... well unless your 70 right my god your just a cry baby who gets ownd by greys and do you need a tissue?  </span></p><p>C: It gets boring being the same level with the same spells/combat arts for such a long time. You're missing out on A LOT. Heck, a lot of classes don't meet their full potential until their 20's and 30's. Sure you'll get a few new abilites here and there with your AA's, but it's nothing extraordinary!</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">How would you know obvioulsy you dont have a twink so how would you know how fun it is? You dont you dont know jack crap about anything other than how to get [I cannot control my vocabulary] by a grey con and cry about how having better gear and more AA is just wrong....  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>So in summary....  <span style="color: #ff0000">Your just a newb who sucks at all levels of the game gets ownd oever and over by greens and greys and wants SOE to fix it for your cause your such a NUB to do it on your own....</span></p><p>Level-locking is LAME  <span style="color: #ff0000">taking options away from playes is lame, crying about how you suck and hate to get ownd by COMBAT XP locked toons is lame matter fact your LAME</span></p><p>And I have absolutely NO RESPECT for anyone who does it. <span style="color: #ff0000">You prob suck at RL too</span></p><p>You shame the nature of what PvP is SUPPOSED TO BE.<span style="color: #ff0000"> Its a game played on the internet get freakn over it! You shame me for wasting my time putting your NUB ARS in your place  ~FACT~ </span></p></blockquote>you should  /quit  and reroll on the PVE server IMO

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[Wytie]

Tillious@Vox wrote: <blockquote><p>Its always hard when you ding 10 and get killed instantly by some guy named Pwnjabber.</p><p>You know, when your lvl 10 and lookin at your character in third-person thinking "Man this guy rocks. hes gona be bad [I cannot control my vocabulary]" Everything is happy pies and cakes.....then some guy creeps into your view and does a one hit wonder.</p><p>but thats pvp. either you keep xping and out lvl them or invest some money and battle those SoBs. nuff said</p></blockquote><p>Exactly no different than dinging 60 or 62 or what ever and getting Killed instanly by a level 70 who has been 70 longer than you have been playing EQ2 two fold <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[Splintered]

<p>**I only read about the first 10 post in this thread**</p><p> I have no problem with people level locking, but I have little respect for the people who spend their entire career in tier 2. Tier 2 pvp is not about skill, its mainly about spells and equipment. There are certain classes that with enough aa and gear they simply can not be killed at that range, i.e. lets say wardens. A good number of people do it because it doesn't take that long to get into the action.</p><p> From what I have seen, most don't have high level toons, which prompts for a good number of the level lockers in tier 2 to buy platinum, (and don't try to deny it, it happens so often, unless I wouldn't be getting spammed with plat messages all the time). They get these insane tier 2 fabled items, like a lvl 17 belt for example with +12 str and +12 sta and a good amount of health and power. Then, a good amount of the time these guys all flock together because they don't even want to chance dying, which is why you see these 17-20 dreadnaughts running around, which is sick.</p><p> Am I going to campaign to soe to have these options removed, of course not, I just personally believe its cheap.</p>

[ZG77_Schnell]

<div align="center">Serili, a 21 SK at the time, who HT me, a lvl 22 guardian at the time, and insta killed me with a crit.   He did it again 30 minutes later<div align="center">  </div>Hahah I know Serili, and yeah he is tweeked beyond reach, but he also worked really hard to get that way.  Nobody just walked up and handed the stuff to him.   Dont come here p is s and moaning about being cannon fodder when you dont want to put the time and money into it...live and learn.</div>

[Rattfa]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote> <blockquote>BTW, do you have a character in t7? Do you have a character on PvP? Eq2players thinks not.</blockquote><p>I would have thought that my previous comment made it clear I do not have a character in T7.</p><p>However, per an earlier post I did say that I played on PVP servers in WoW for over a year (with a top tier druid) and the <u>same</u> sort of complaints regarding PVP were voiced there over and over and over.</p><p>The most entertaining? Topped out and full raid/PVP geared players complaining that no one was leveling into their battleground bracket so those players could maintain their honor ratings.</p><p>Conversely, there were very active lower bracket battlegrounds with twinked characters having gear that anyone could reasonably get in a reasonable amount of time and have more than a snowball's chance in a battleground fight.</p></blockquote> So basically you're arguing with me about T7 PvP in EQ2 when you have never experienced it. Grats. Same goes for Bozidar, you dont have a T7 character either IIRC, how do you know how things are up there?

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[Bozidar]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Same goes for Bozidar, you dont have a T7 character either IIRC, how do you know how things are up there? </blockquote><p> Hooked on phonics and an inquisitive mind.  Don't argue ME, argue what i said.  Oh, wait.. you can't <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>K, go back to trying to make the issue about me and not the fact that lower tier pvp is more balanced and fair.</p>

[ailen]

<cite>ZG77_Schnell wrote:</cite><blockquote><div align="center">Serili, a 21 SK at the time, who HT me, a lvl 22 guardian at the time, and insta killed me with a crit.   He did it again 30 minutes later <div align="center">  </div>Hahah I know Serili, and yeah he is tweeked beyond reach, but he also worked really hard to get that way.  Nobody just walked up and handed the stuff to him.   Dont come here p is s and moaning about being cannon fodder when you dont want to put the time and money into it...live and learn.</div></blockquote>Are you sure?  I remember the dude rolling Seleri and nonstop spamming wtb blackened iron clusters, for like 3 days.  Where in the F did he get all the money?  Worked hard?  Not likely.  I'm 99% sure he wasn't from this server, when he rolled his toon.   Where did the money to buy it all come from?

[CresentBlade]

<p><b>The really sad part about this whole thing is not to long ago, not so many people locked and it was not a big deal and there was pvp in most teirs. Now every one states locking is the only way to do it and omg it is a must and is a game breaking feature. If you dont lock your whole gaming experience is destroyed *GASPS*</b></p><p><b>Oh gee wezz lets all lock its sooooo important even though while back hardly anyone did and yet some how they still managed to play the game, go figure. Those people must of had mad uber skill<img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p><p><b>PvP players sure can come up with a excuse for everything now a days<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[Bozidar]

Tillious@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Hooked on phonics and an inquisitive mind</p></blockquote> lol</blockquote><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /bow

[Tillious]

-

[ailen]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Same goes for Bozidar, you dont have a T7 character either IIRC, how do you know how things are up there? </blockquote><p> Hooked on phonics and an inquisitive mind.  Don't argue ME, argue what i said.  Oh, wait.. you can't <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>K, go back to trying to make the issue about me and not the fact that lower tier pvp is more balanced and fair.</p></blockquote><p>How do you know what is fair and what is not fair?  You must play both tiers to make your assessments.  You can't take the word of some crybaby noob that decided they couldn't handle it in T7 and rerolled to T3.</p><p>People can make arguments, they can make up stories, they can make statements, but the truth is people level lock because it's "EASY"... </p><p>I mean all the arguments are there, and every corner I see the same thing.  It's not said in those words, it's not "Termed" that way, but in the end of it all it's "easier."</p><p>It's the easy route to domination of most of the player base.  I said it before and I'll say it again.  If it wasn't easier, people wouldn't do it.  Right?  Logic dictates it.  People said it many times in this thread. "PvP is more balanced"  but how do you know?  It's not more balanced unless everyone in that tier decided to "lock' and shoot for 100AA, being twinked, buying plat, farming masters and fabled gear.  THEN it'd be balanced.  But the reality is, there's an ever growing subsection of the community that does this, while the majority do not.  The people that come to this game, to "progress" such as the game was designed in EVERY aspect, including PvP, get rolled by these UBER fabled people, and they are left scratching their heads.  Which in TURN, causes the EXACT opposite of what people describe, or even take the time to consider.  They are forced to GRIND their way OUT of the lower levels to compete by being higher level... because most don't want to spend 3 months getting 5 levels when it can be done in a matter of days with "casual" play.   Turn it around and think about it.  They don't get to do the lower game content... because the lockers are forcing them out... Which in TURN, makes people burn out, all the while chasing that magic level not gearing out, learning to play at the rate the game was designed to be... they just think, grind it to 70 so I can at least fight white cons or lower.  But they get there and the reality stabs them in the eye when they find out there's a big population of people that know what they are doing in T7 and they didn't get to spend the time learning to play.</p><p>You learn to play your classes from T1-T3... you get your base abilities, your abilities that if you master them make the "class specifics" later on GRAVY.  Ask any T7 player that knows how to play right, they don't need their big cooldowns, and they learned to make the RIGHT decisions.  </p><p>Anyways.. that's my rant.  Do what you want, if it makes you "happy" but don't defend your standpoint with things you can't even know about.   You're not "getting over" on the server, and the reality is, you're easy mode all the way.  If you want to "defend" your standpoint with "I have a T7 toon" please let us know it's name so we can look it up on eq2players.  I wanna see why you're so [Removed for Content]. </p>

[CresentBlade]

Tillious@Vox wrote: <blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>The really sad part about this whole thing is not to long ago, not so many people locked and it was not a big deal and there was pvp in most teirs. Now every one states locking is the only way to do it and omg it is a must and is a game breaking feature. If you dont lock your whole gaming experience is destroyed *GASPS*</b></p><p><b>Oh gee wezz lets all lock its sooooo important even though while back hardly anyone did and yet some how they still managed to play the game, go figure. Those people must of had mad uber skill<img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p><p><b>PvP players sure can come up with a excuse for everything now a days<img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p></blockquote>some lock some dont. Lvl T7 if you dont want to deal with it. If not whys it matter? </blockquote><p>My point being there is no need what so ever for it. 90% of the people locking are there to farm new lowbies and are full of it saying anything else. Its not about the pvp faction its not about the waiting on friends, its about being able to destroy under geared players coming up the ladder. Most of these friends people say they are waiting on have been perma locked for the last several weeks/months. I am just tired of all the BS stories about why people lock gets really old, at least admitt why they are really locked and I could care less. 300 hundred kills and you can get your first piece of pvp armor at 20.</p><p>Perhaps if all the players just locking for pvp faction /cough /cough where to pvp more instead of running from 75% of the fights they would already have their faction and then could unlock..........ROFLMAO ok ya right...I dont care who you are that was funny<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Bozidar]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>How do you know what is fair and what is not fair?  You must play both tiers to make your assessments.  You can't take the word of some crybaby noob that decided they couldn't handle it in T7 and rerolled to T3.</p></blockquote><p>No, i read a great deal, including information from skilled T7 players.  I don't pay much attention to whining, but there are several reoccuring themes that never stop coming up about T7.  Deny all you like.. but you know there's a reason it keeps coming up.</p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[ailen]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>How do you know what is fair and what is not fair?  You must play both tiers to make your assessments.  You can't take the word of some crybaby noob that decided they couldn't handle it in T7 and rerolled to T3.</p></blockquote><p>No, i read a great deal, including information from skilled T7 players.  I don't pay much attention to whining, but there are several reoccuring themes that never stop coming up about T7.  Deny all you like.. but you know there's a reason it keeps coming up.</p></blockquote>so you are making statements as factual based upon what? Rumors?  If I believed all the garbage I have read on these boards I'd quit this game today.  Be careful what you read here.  It's a board full of crybabies and flamers.  I'm not denying anything, I stating my perception of the game.  If you think it's more fair to be a level locked twink fully fabled with a ridiculous amount of AAs that a normal player could never achieve playing the game even casually the way it was designed then you need your head examined.

[Bozidar]

CresentBlade wrote: <blockquote><p>My point being there is no need what so ever for it. 90% of the people locking are there to farm new lowbies and are full of it saying anything else. Its not about the pvp faction its not about the waiting on friends, its about being able to destroy under geared players coming up the ladder. </p></blockquote><p> Do you even think about what you're saying before you start typing?</p><p>Think it through.  Why would a person play a game when there is exactly no challenge to it?  You've used cheat codes on games before, we all have.  How long did you keep playing that game after the cheat modes made it stupid-easy?  There is simply no prolonged enjoyment out of ganking newbies... get   that  through   your   head.</p><p>There may be .01% of the population that locks to do this, because that's how they get their little [Removed for Content] off, i'll give you that.  But the vast <i>vast vast vast</i> majority of those who lock in low levels do it because it IS a challenge, there are <i>great</i> fights there, faction is required, friends do take time to level up, and we pay our subscription just like you do.</p><p>How can you sit there at your keyboard and try to tell the world what so many players do when you have absolutely no idea?  Do you read a lot of posts from people that say "Yeah, i'm perma locked at T2 to gank greens!! ftw!!"  -- "oh yeah, me too, i got 50 kills today off of island noobs, it was so much fun he he he"???</p><p>No one says that.</p><p>If anyone was permalocked at T2 to do exactly that, trust me, they wouldn't give a <i>crap</i> what you think, and they WOULD be posting about it.</p><p>So why the derth of these kinda things?  Like i said above... think it through... </p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[ailen]

Tillious@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <p>I think you kind of blew out of proportion how long it takes "casual" players to lvl if they are on a pvp servers. If your not concerned with pvp titles then it shouldnt bother you to take a few deaths. The worst that happens is you do a little more running.  Enless you have poor hand-eye cordination i dont see 5 lvls in 3months. By experience (which you comment on) i know it isnt much harder to lvl through T2 and T3 than normal if pvp deaths dont frustrate you. you die and move on. period</p></blockquote><p> I dont think you understand what I typed.  Reread it.  I never said it was hard to level.. in fact it's EASY to level... which brings up the point.   Unless you lock and die and get griefed by mobs/guards there is no way for a regular player to achieve what these people are doing to their toons...  I laugh at the arguments made.</p><p>And again.. I'll say it.  I'm not telling you how to play.  I'm simply suggesting that some of the reasons people are giving in defense of level locking scream "EASY MODE"... don't pretend it's harder.  It's not.</p>

[Bjerde]

I stopped playing my Dirge last year because I couldn't get a group to lvl up. Maybe it was better on Naggy, but I was sick of lfg and wasting time, I was already doing quests and soloing in SS and getting ganked over and over since there were no lvl restrictions in SS back then. Not everyone level locks, but it is faster than leveling to 70 and there is tons of action in T2, so why not? Seriously, T2 is easy to get through level-wise, and there are some instances you can do. If you don't like it, get to T3.

[Bozidar]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>so you are making statements as factual based upon what? Rumors?  If I believed all the garbage I have read on these boards I'd quit this game today.  Be careful what you read here.  It's a board full of crybabies and flamers.  I'm not denying anything, I stating my perception of the game.  If you think it's more fair to be a level locked twink fully fabled with a ridiculous amount of AAs that a normal player could never achieve playing the game even casually the way it was designed then you need your head examined. </blockquote><p> When i heard rumors that richard gere put a gerbil in his rear, i was pretty sure it was BS, even though i heard it over and over.  When i heard that Jon Bon Jovi had a quart of [Removed for Content] pumped from his stomach... same thing.  When i heard that Jamie Lee Curtis was really a guy... same thing.  Repitition of rumors and stuff doesn't make them true.</p><p>But when skilled players explain the problems of T7, at length, i form an opinion based on that.</p><p>The board is quite truly full of cry babies.. read page 1 of this thread, for example. But this forum is chock full of skilled players who know exactly what's going on.</p><p>70 is the only true level lock (atm), fact.  T7 has ultra huge resist problem, supposition based on a huge heaping pile of tesimony.  T7 has fully fabled (and ADVANCED fabled) with max AA that a player coming into that tier could never achieve playing the game even casually the way it was designed, fact.</p><p>But in lower tiers... all lower tiers.. we have what i like to call "higher level opponents".  Something a level 70 locked super twink won't have to deal with.. (until RoK).  So yes.. i call it more fair, and my head is just fine, thanks.</p>

[CresentBlade]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Tillious@Vox wrote: <blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <p>I think you kind of blew out of proportion how long it takes "casual" players to lvl if they are on a pvp servers. If your not concerned with pvp titles then it shouldnt bother you to take a few deaths. The worst that happens is you do a little more running.  Enless you have poor hand-eye cordination i dont see 5 lvls in 3months. By experience (which you comment on) i know it isnt much harder to lvl through T2 and T3 than normal if pvp deaths dont frustrate you. you die and move on. period</p></blockquote><p> I dont think you understand what I typed.  Reread it.  I never said it was hard to level.. in fact it's EASY to level... which brings up the point.   Unless you lock and die and get griefed by mobs/guards there is no way for a regular player to achieve what these people are doing to their toons...  I laugh at the arguments made.</p><p>And again.. I'll say it.  I'm not telling you how to play.  I'm simply suggesting that some of the reasons people are giving in defense of level locking scream "EASY MODE"... don't pretend it's harder.  It's not.</p></blockquote><p>Man you just dont understand, its very hard. Lets see you....</p><p>Run around with all masters in full mastercrafted or better with only 30 AA at level 17 and tell me its not hard. I mean come on you so dont know what your talking about, it takes so much skill just to stay alive. I mean the the total fear and stress of getting hit once or twice before being able to kill the other person is very taxing.<img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Darkothe]

<p>Coming from a host of MMORP's, I will admit to twinking on occasion.  I can also understand frustration with the twink brigades wandering around the newb areas ganking people.</p><p>Since coming to EQ2 from WoW - pvp sucked there...got bored with it - I have been one of those pvpers who has leveled no less than 6 toons to 15 to find the right match/play style for me...and along the way given quite a few tokens and rep to twinks who've been there to welcome me to EQ2 - and I'd like to thank you all who did...I still feel all warm and fuzzy inside.  Finally, I've found something I'm having fun with and I'm sticking with it.  The reason I wanted to toss my two cents in here was that coming into the game with no guild, no sugar momma or sugar daddy to "[Removed for Content] my ride" I've had to suck it up and get my gear or make it myself.  Yeah...it gets old when I was getting chain ganked by the same [Removed for Content]-[Removed for Content] twinks over and over (and sure...you put the time in and earned the plat on other toons to twink your locked lowbie...so why not?).  Now, being able to stealth and track, I've found myself able to farm for rares and keep my head above water so I can get funds together to pvp on an even playing field...that's all I'm really looking for.</p><p>I'll probably get a cry more newb for asking this;  but what kind of satisfaction do you - as a twinked, locked toon - get from ganking someone obviously lower level, out geared with no AA's to speak of?  Yeah - blah, blah, blah..."I have the right to play however I want to cause I pay Sony"...blah, blah,blah - I just find it curious that many of the twink-locks (made a new word) are unwilling to face someone on an even level for a fight.  Gear and AA's do play a major part in PvP - no argument here.  However, if you're looking to really impress me, beat me in an even fight - more often than not if I see someone I know to be a twink-lock coming at me, I'll a.  Zone it.  b.  Jump off a cliff or run to the nearest red mob and let it eat my face before I give over tokens or honor to them or c.  Stand there and start dancing while they kill me - as there's no way I'd be able to do any real damage to them if I'm jumped/rooted/snared etc.  I'm just saying...if you as a twink-lock manage to kill me:  I'm not impressed, nor [Removed for Content] - because you're nothing to me.  You kill me on an even playing field, and I'll respect you.</p><p>Nothing is going to change in the near future, and I'll eventually level past the [Removed for Content] obsessed twink-locks and hopefully move into skill pvp rather than "Look how much plat I dumped on this toon" pvp.  So...yeah I'm here to stay, I'll put up with the twink-locks because I have to - constantly wondering if their behavior behind the obsessive twinking is the result of not getting that shiny red bike for Christmas those many years ago...</p>

[ailen]

Odinn@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>I stopped playing my Dirge last year because I couldn't get a group to lvl up. Maybe it was better on Naggy, but I was sick of lfg and wasting time, I was already doing quests and soloing in SS and getting ganked over and over since there were no lvl restrictions in SS back then. Not everyone level locks, but it is faster than leveling to 70 and there is tons of action in T2, so why not? Seriously, T2 is easy to get through level-wise, and there are some instances you can do. If you don't like it, get to T3. </blockquote><p>DING DING DING... dude said what I am telling you.   Level locking does NOT contribute to fair and fun gameplay in the lower tiers for the regular player.  this dude is from a different server even, and is telling me that you need to "grind" out of the lower tiers if you "don't like it"</p><p>so, it's not causing more players to play longer it's probably causing more players to play less.  So where's the subscription argument now? </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Man you just dont understand, its very hard. Lets see you....</p><p>Run around with all masters in full mastercrafted or better with only 30 AA at level 17 and tell me its not hard. I mean come on you so dont know what your talking about, it takes so much skill just to stay alive. I mean the the total fear and stress of getting hit once or twice before being able to kill the other person is very taxing.</p></blockquote><p> Not that you'd know this, but lvl 17 with 30 aa is not a very common thing, and lvl 17 isn't a very good level to lock at because lvl 20 is so attractive.  And when your 17 group runs into a group of 20's... it's not happy happy joy joy time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[brambo2]

<p>Look, the only way now-a-days to kill a twink is to BE a twink..</p><p>If your a lvl 15 with 2 AA's against a 12 with 14 AA's your gonna lose no matter what.</p><p>If you don't level lock, you might as well go to 70 and pvp with all the [Removed for Content] guilds =P</p>

[Bozidar]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>DING DING DING... dude said what I am telling you.   Level locking does NOT contribute to fair and fun gameplay in the lower tiers for the regular player.  this dude is from a different server even, and is telling me that you need to "grind" out of the lower tiers if you "don't like it"</p><p>so, it's not causing more players to play longer it's probably causing more players to play less.  So where's the subscription argument now? </p></blockquote><p> What server did you play EQ2 on at first?  What was your first MMO?</p><p>I was a casual player starting this game on a pvp server.  I learned hard mode, and imo i'm better off for it.</p><p>You're giving me a hard time for making a supposition based on evidence from what YOU call whiners.. and then you listen to the <i>actual</i> whiners and do the exact same thing.  Too funny.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>brambo2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Look, the only way now-a-days to kill a twink is to BE a twink..</p><p>If your a lvl 15 with 2 AA's against a 12 with 14 AA's your gonna lose no matter what.</p><p>If you don't level lock, you might as well go to 70 and pvp with all the [I cannot control my vocabulary] guilds =P</p></blockquote><p>I disagree.  If you want to pvp in the middle levels, you don't have to grind out the way the T2 guys do.  Just lock xp and quest your way up.  Don't bother with debt, do your collections, get some disco. It's a piece of cake to get out of T2 with 10 AA w/o using debt at all.  Get to T3.. plenty more quests to be done.</p><p>Just figure out where you want to pvp, what end-line abilities you want to have by then, and aim for that goal.</p><p>You don't have to go to end-game and deal with all the BS there just because you don't want to maximize AA. </p>

[Bjerde]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Odinn@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>I stopped playing my Dirge last year because I couldn't get a group to lvl up. Maybe it was better on Naggy, but I was sick of lfg and wasting time, I was already doing quests and soloing in SS and getting ganked over and over since there were no lvl restrictions in SS back then. Not everyone level locks, but it is faster than leveling to 70 and there is tons of action in T2, so why not? Seriously, T2 is easy to get through level-wise, and there are some instances you can do. If you don't like it, get to T3. </blockquote><p>DING DING DING... dude said what I am telling you.   Level locking does NOT contribute to fair and fun gameplay in the lower tiers for the regular player.  this dude is from a different server even, and is telling me that you need to "grind" out of the lower tiers if you "don't like it"</p><p>so, it's not causing more players to play longer it's probably causing more players to play less.  So where's the subscription argument now? </p></blockquote>DING DONG....I didn't even read your long winded post, I was replying to the thread....not you. ...and what server you are on matters? Look at my sig, I play on both. How come Nagafen is one of the highest load servers? Cause of all the dropped subs? uh huh.....and CL/DL/Ant are empty too!

[CresentBlade]

Ogres are so much cooler then Iksar, FACT!<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bozidar]

Odinn@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>How come Nagafen is one of the highest load servers? Cause of all the dropped subs? uh huh.....and CL/DL/Ant are empty too! </blockquote> I think it's everyone who's just ABOUT to unsub, but they're busy writing very lengthy /bug, /feedback, and /petitions.

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ogres are so much cooler then Iksar, FACT!<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>cooler?  Im cold-blooded, mo fo <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Odinn@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>How come Nagafen is one of the highest load servers? Cause of all the dropped subs? uh huh.....and CL/DL/Ant are empty too! </blockquote> I think it's everyone who's just ABOUT to unsub, but they're busy writing very lengthy /bug, /feedback, and /petitions.</blockquote><img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ogres are so much cooler then Iksar, FACT!<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>cooler?  Im cold-blooded, mo fo <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Nerf cold-blooded Iksar its total BS that they can have cold blood and the rest of us cant, so much for balance BAH!

[ailen]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: What server did you play EQ2 on at first?  What was your first MMO? <p>I was a casual player starting this game on a pvp server.  I learned hard mode, and imo i'm better off for it.</p><p>You're giving me a hard time for making a supposition based on evidence from what YOU call whiners.. and then you listen to the <i>actual</i> whiners and do the exact same thing.  Too funny.</p></blockquote><p> Irrelevant statements. don't pretend I wasn't in T3 at some point.  I have 5.. yes count them up.. 5 - T7 toons on Nagafen of various class types and and untold number of toons I've deleted.  I've played this game from every aspect, even the twink track at some point, and I am speaking from actual experience.  I'm simply quoting someone because they made the SAME point I did about a game I played in that way.</p><p>What is your experience?    You learned in "hard mode"?  By whose standards are you stating it's "harder."  when did you start this game?  3-4 months ago?  compared to what it was when I started here, it has been nerfed to near carebear proportions.  So please spare me the trite arguments that I might not know what I'm talking about because I do.</p><p>And again, I'm not saying you shouldn't play how YOU want to play, but I will refute anyone that comes here and defends level locking like it's some "hard" thing to do.  It's not hard. It's easier as described throughout this entire thread and many other threads where people try to defend "level locking"...   cracks me up too, because they almost always reiterate what I've said all along.  They do it because they can "win" they can "defeat their opponents", and that T7 sucks (and I ask again to give me your T7 toons' name so I can look you up)...   T7 sucked for them because they probably ground to 70 because they were sick of the Twinks ganking the living crap out of them....   Twinking doesn't teach the general base how to play the game right, because it's not a real indication of anything, it's just another way for a subsection of the server to "dominate" a good portion of the player base who for the most part are clueless.</p><p>"hard mode"  that's laughable.. </p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>Just for a while i wish they would flip a switch and open up free for all PvP </p><p>Then i could stroll arround with a raid geared toon and blow up T2-T3 level locked twinks. </p><p>They would flood the boards with complaints about how unfair it was. </p><p>And i could have whitty comments like .. what do you expect i have invested more time in my toon.</p><p>And Suck it up and gring your game to my level. </p><p>And L2P or its a PvP server you gotta pay yer dues.</p><p>Yes level lockers finance their toons from other characters. </p><p>Or just buy plat and buy their toon. </p><p>The main difference between t2 t3 lockers and t7 lockers as you say is that at t7 you cant buy your toon. </p><p>To compete you NEED to invest the time. Not just get GMWorker to set you up with 200 plat.</p><p>All of the items are no trade. You need to be doing the instance , you need to be in the raid . you need to put in </p><p>the time.  And if you are a superior toon at t7 .. you have earned it. And if you are owning .good for you. </p><p>T7 is not unbalanced PvP of all of the tiers it is the most balanced. </p><p>Contrast this with T2. </p><p>If i were inclined i could start a twink. </p><p>I have more that 200 plat , i raid alot , i have sold several masters for alot of cash. And just pay for repair cost aster raids at this point.</p><p>I could buy my lvl 14 or 15 alt perhaps a scout class . all mastercrafted jewelery , and master 1 DPS spells. </p><p>use rare poisons. It would take me 2 hours to reach this point. 2 hours to level to 14 while a guildie makes all of my gear for me </p><p>The hex dolls the jewelery the belts whatever. </p><p>Then i too could own faces, Perhaps 5 bored guildies could do the same, we can start a new guild <PwnU> buy nightmare mounts , stock up on our potions . And as most of my guidies are dreads/masters.overseers we are good at PvP. I doubt anyone would pose a challenge for us. Perhaps a 10 on 6 white con fight would be good.</p><p>Man our E-Peens woudl be HUGE i tell ya.</p><p>/Level locked Twink Guy</p><p>New players wouldnt stand a chance .. i doubt they would know what happened. </p><p>they would be rooted stuned harm touched and rotting waste before they hit a button. </p><p>Yeahhhhh baby Yeahhhh /flex</p><p>I wonder if i could sport a master title before lvl 25 .. man that would be coool. </p><p>I would hunt the noob starter zones ... picking off greens and solo players. </p><p>Man we could be T3 legends .. </p><p>If you ask me why im doing this   "Its cause im trying to enjoy the quests" yeahhh thats it.</p><p>Or perhaps "I just want to play with my friends" yeah that sounds good. </p><p>I could mash the noobies faces in it .. </p><p>Cause thats who i am baby .. i want instant gratification!!</p><p>I dont want to really work at my toon .. i just wanna [Removed for Content] him out in a few hours. </p><p>I dont want real competition .. i wanna own noobs. </p><p>Thats right .. im gonna kick butt from the time the school bell rings till mom says its bedtime.</p><p>And when the population starts to dwindle .. and PvP is sparse becaue ..lets face it .. none can handle being owned so often by my uberness (My corpse humping button is worn out /flex) .. ill just move on to another game .. where more people to admire my mad skills.</p><p>/End Level locked Twink Guy </p><p>Ahh that felt good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If you are going to post about wanting to enjoy the game with friends can you just tell me the name of the char you are using . I would love to look it up. </p><p>Cause i dont buy any of it. </p><p>I just want to look at the hours played , the quests completed, check out the gear.</p><p>Hey perhaps my above assesment of the average locker is off ... but i doubt it. </p><p>They are imo the easy mode players .. limited skills .. lots of cash(relative to tier) who are abusing a system which would allow players to do the things they say"play with friends" , "enjoy quests" but they dont they just gank.</p><p> . i would like to see these characters. </p><p>The Best PvP fights are in t7 .. Only in that tier have i had 6 v 6 encounters end with. </p><p>All 6 player alive after 4 min of combat ..some rezed during the fight. All healers out of power using manastones to crank out a heal as power regens. healers and mages on auto attack trying to kill eachother. </p><p>PvP lives in the upper tiers .. all of the movies of PvP are from t7 .. all of the massive raid battles t7 .. </p><p>t2 and t3 twinks are where the failures of t7 go to prey on the weak ...</p><p>What bothers me is that in t5 t6 t7 .. when raiding becomes the best way to upgrade gear. </p><p>That is when players learn about their class , that is where they learn how to work in a group </p><p>how to heal well , how to enhance the abilities of their group mates, they become good PvP players. </p><p>Its a shame many leave the game in t3 becaue they were griefed soo often in so many unbalanced fights that they never get to see alot of the content .. or learn the skills that would make the game more fun .. and keep healthy populations on the servers.</p><p>To the level locked twinks... </p><p>Come play with me in t7</p><p>where you will earn your gear by grouping with others ,, raiding and doing instances. </p><p>where your opponents will have the hundreds of hours of expierience that you have. </p><p>where we have fought all of the classes .. know our characters. </p><p>we have upgraded our spells ..   </p><p>I swear the lockers are like the 6 foot grade 5 kid with a mustache. </p><p>come play with the big boys.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>What is your experience?    You learned in "hard mode"?  By whose standards are you stating it's "harder."  when did you start this game?</p></blockquote><p>about 2 months after pvp launch, eq2 was my first mmo, and as stated previously in this thread i was that lvl 23 guy in island gear wondering why i was getting [Removed for Content] slapped so easy.  I had friends, but they never really took the time to explain to me the importance of gear and combat arts... i mean really explain it.  I figured it all out eventually, and they gave me the whole "that's what we've been trying to tell you" schpeel.. but it took a long long time.</p><p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>They do it because they can "win" they can "defeat their opponents", and that T7 sucks (and I ask again to give me your T7 toons' name so I can look you up)...   </p></blockquote><p>I do it because the pvp is balanced, fair, and fun.  Go read my response to your "whine" about plate classes.. cracked me up when i read that.</p><p>And i think you keep making jabs at Jaided.. and i don't think it's really neccisary.  What i have read/learned about T7 pvp has absolutely nothing to do with her, so why not knock it off rather than being a tool?  If you're not.. then fine, i apologize, but i am pretty sure that's what you're doing.</p>

[TerminalEyesore]

<b><span style="color: #ffff00">I have to disagree with those who say there is no reason to level lock other than to grief lowbies. I level locked at about 16 I think, and in spite of that, I leveled to 27 in a fairly short time through quests. If I hadn't level locked when I did, I would have EASILY outleveled many quests, and gotten nothing for them. I don't level lock to gank or grief. In fact, I have a horrible KvD ratio with my Warden, in spite of level locking. I solo a lot, so I get jumped quite a bit, especially by scouts who like to sneak up on me while I'm already in a fight, or just outnumber me 4 to 1. I get over it. I LOVE that you can't zone while in combat now, even though I like to solo with a non dps, non stealth/invis, non evac, non tracking character (a non scout in other words). I have no title whatsoever, but I'm still enjoying the game, doing my best to do quests on a PvP server, all the while trying to stay alive amongst the PvPers. That's what makes it fun, IMO. So yeah, there ARE reasons to level lock other than just griefing or gaining an unfair advantage. The game is BUILT around questing, and PvP is an option to that. If you don't want to miss out on tons of quests, then maybe level locking is an option you would want to consider. Aside from making more quests available to you, it helps you to develop your character the way you were meant to, instead of just mindlessly level grinding. And if you DO mindlessly grind through the levels, then you've only got yourself to blame for the low quality character you wind up with. Finally, for those who joined a PvP server to do nothing BUT PvP, either take the time to develop a character that can hang in there with the other players, as they have done, or run around with a sub par character and be killed a LOT. You really can't expect Sony to do your work for you here.</span></b>

[Bozidar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just for a while i wish they would flip a switch and open up free for all PvP </p><p>Then i could stroll arround with a raid geared toon and blow up T2-T3 level locked twinks. </p><p>They would flood the boards with complaints about how unfair it was. </p><p>And i could have whitty comments like .. what do you expect i have invested more time in my toon.</p><p>And Suck it up and gring your game to my level. </p><p>And L2P or its a PvP server you gotta pay yer dues.</p><p>-------------------- </p><p>come play with the big boys.</p></blockquote><p> Ahhh... yes.  The ultimate uber guy at T7 who thinks he's the rectal king midas wants to go squishing T2/T3 level lockers.</p><p>I got an idea.. since, gee.. it's just SOOOO easy, right?  How about you roll a T2/T3 toon and come try us out.  You've got your end-game toon.. you've got all your plat and guild level, ect.  Grats! it's such a piece of cake, why don't you come MAKE us level up?</p><p>NAh.. you're too busy raiding instances to go out and try and actually beat us on equal terms, right?  It's so easy though.. takes no time you say... right?  Should be a piece of cake!</p><p>Come.. try out some of the T2 lockers, and see what the T2 dirt tastes like.</p>

[ailen]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>What is your experience?    You learned in "hard mode"?  By whose standards are you stating it's "harder."  when did you start this game?</p></blockquote><p>about 2 months after pvp launch, eq2 was my first mmo, and as stated previously in this thread i was that lvl 23 guy in island gear wondering why i was getting [Removed for Content] slapped so easy.  I had friends, but they never really took the time to explain to me the importance of gear and combat arts... i mean really explain it.  I figured it all out eventually, and they gave me the whole "that's what we've been trying to tell you" schpeel.. but it took a long long time.</p><p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>They do it because they can "win" they can "defeat their opponents", and that T7 sucks (and I ask again to give me your T7 toons' name so I can look you up)...   </p></blockquote><p>I do it because the pvp is balanced, fair, and fun.  Go read my response to your "whine" about plate classes.. cracked me up when i read that.</p><p>And i think you keep making jabs at Jaided.. and i don't think it's really neccisary.  What i have read/learned about T7 pvp has absolutely nothing to do with her, so why not knock it off rather than being a tool?  If you're not.. then fine, i apologize, but i am pretty sure that's what you're doing.</p></blockquote><p>My post wasn't a whine... it was an informative post.  What cracks me up is that I must make so much sense you're resorting to pointless flaming, in completely unrelated threads that have nothing to do with anything you're involved in.  Sounds like I hurt your feelings.  I'm glad.   </p><p>Read the poster above.  The poorly formatted message.  That pretty much sums up how I feel about the subject.  I told you before, you can do what you want, you should try to have fun even if it's beating on lowbies.  I don't think it's "fair" but who am I anyways to make that judgement call.  I will post in rebuttal to your "hard mode" like you need some kind of respect for what you are doing because believe me, it's not hard mode.  Also, you haven't even been to T7 ... how can you comment on it? </p><p>I'm not posting to Jaided, I'm posting to you.  Jaided at least has a T7 toon.  Do you?</p>

[Bozidar]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>My post wasn't a whine... it was an informative post.  What cracks me up is that I must make so much sense you're resorting to pointless flaming, in completely unrelated threads that have nothing to do with anything you're involved in.  Sounds like I hurt your feelings.  I'm glad. </p></blockquote><p>Lol, hurt my feelings?  You're the one saying that no one but whiners come here, and i'm the one saying that there is a bounty of informative and skilled players out there (like <i>yourself)</i> who give great information.  I say T7 has serious problem, you ask me about my T7 toon and then talk about a serious problem in T7 on another thread.  LMFAO... you crack me up.</p><p> Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>Read the poster above.  The poorly formatted message.  That pretty much sums up how I feel about the subject.  ......Also, you haven't even been to T7 ... how can you comment on it?</p></blockquote><p>Read my response to that message, assume that the challenge extends to you.</p><p>And i answered your question on T7 already.. hooked on phonics and an inquisitve mind.</p><p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>I'm not posting to Jaided, I'm posting to you.  Jaided at least has a T7 toon.  Do you?</p></blockquote>k, good.  my mistake, i pre-apologized, but the comment about someone who "couldn't hack it in T7 and rerolled to T3" set off a flag.

[ailen]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <p>Lol, hurt my feelings?  You're the one saying that no one but whiners come here, and i'm the one saying that there is a bounty of informative and skilled players out there (like <i>yourself)</i> who give great information.  I say T7 has serious problem, <b>you ask me about my T7 toon and then talk about a serious problem in T7 on another thread.</b>  LMFAO... you crack me up.</p> </blockquote><p>You misquoted me, and that's shows your mentality.   I never, ever said it was a problem with T7.  Its a problem with all tiers.  Do you not understand the game mechanics on how mitigation and avoidance work?  No?  Need me to spell it out for you?</p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>OMG man </p><p>Why would i come down to easy mode ?</p><p>Did you read my post?</p><p>Im not about to be part of the problem. </p><p>But i will wait for you in t7 .. if you ever make it here. I;; fight ya whenever you want. </p><p>What a joke </p><p>T2 .. </p><p>are you a fury ?.brigand ? swashie ? cant be a ranger they are not easymode in t2 </p><p>what would i be looking for ?</p><p>Come and get me</p><p>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=851367120 </p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[Wytie]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just for a while i wish they would flip a switch and open up free for all PvP<span style="color: #ff0000"> cause killing greys is much better than killing greens......</span></p><p>Then i could stroll arround with a raid geared toon and blow up T2-T3 level locked twinks. <span style="color: #ff0000">No you wouldnt cause no one would be around everyone would hide in instance even more so than now......</span></p><p>They would flood the boards with complaints about how unfair it was. <span style="color: #ff0000"> just like now....</span></p><p>And i could have whitty comments like .. what do you expect i have invested more time in my toon.</p><p>And Suck it up and gring your game to my level. <span style="color: #ff0000">your level huh you mean your T7 toon who has been 70 longer than most people have been playing, just like greifing the T2 newb just different newbs, you scared them off which is why you cry 4 them to level casue there isnt as many T7 newbs for you to gank <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>And L2P or its a PvP server you gotta pay yer dues.</p><p>Yes level lockers finance their toons from other characters. </p><p>Or just buy plat and buy their toon.<span style="color: #ff0000"> no different than any other tier.......</span></p><p>The main difference between t2 t3 lockers and t7 lockers as you say is that at t7 you cant buy your toon. <span style="color: #ff0000">yes you can you can buy T7 toons duhhh</span></p><p>To compete you NEED to invest the time. Not just get GMWorker to set you up with 200 plat. </p><p>All of the items are no trade. You need to be doing the instance , you need to be in the raid . you need to put in the time. <span style="color: #ff0000">yea so you can gank all the newbie 70's with mastercraft gear GJ guess that different tho</span></p><p>And if you are a superior toon at t7 .. you have earned it. And if you are owning .good for you. </p><p>T7 is not unbalanced PvP of all of the tiers it is the most balanced.  <span style="color: #ff0000">yea right <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>Contrast this with T2. </p><p>If i were inclined i could start a twink. </p><p>I have more that 200 plat , i raid alot , i have sold several masters for alot of cash. And just pay for repair cost aster raids at this point.</p><p>I could buy my lvl 14 or 15 alt perhaps a scout class . all mastercrafted jewelery , and master 1 DPS spells. </p><p>use rare poisons. It would take me 2 hours to reach this point. 2 hours to level to 14 while a guildie makes all of my gear for me </p><p>The hex dolls the jewelery the belts whatever. </p><p>Then i too could own faces, Perhaps 5 bored guildies could do the same, we can start a new guild <PwnU> buy nightmare mounts , stock up on our potions . And as most of my guidies are dreads/masters.overseers we are good at PvP. I doubt anyone would pose a challenge for us. Perhaps a 10 on 6 white con fight would be good.</p><p>Man our E-Peens woudl be HUGE i tell ya.</p><p>/Level locked Twink Guy</p><p>New players wouldnt stand a chance .. i doubt they would know what happened. </p><p>they would be rooted stuned harm touched and rotting waste before they hit a button. </p><p>Yeahhhhh baby Yeahhhh /flex</p><p>I wonder if i could sport a master title before lvl 25 .. man that would be coool. </p><p>I would hunt the noob starter zones ... picking off greens and solo players. </p><p>Man we could be T3 legends .. </p><p>If you ask me why im doing this   "Its cause im trying to enjoy the quests" yeahhh thats it.</p><p>Or perhaps "I just want to play with my friends" yeah that sounds good. </p><p>I could mash the noobies faces in it .. </p><p>Cause thats who i am baby .. i want instant gratification!!</p><p>I dont want to really work at my toon .. i just wanna [Removed for Content] him out in a few hours. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">That would work just fine till all the real Twinks showed up and ownd your not so twink face in....  But you have no idea so i guess a twink group vs a twink group wouldnt be any fun at all huh your a nub this happens all the time and is very fun actually go figure</span></p><p>I dont want real competition .. i wanna own noobs.  <span style="color: #ff0000">of course you do that why your full fabled/mastered T7 toon ownd newb 70's huh</span></p><p>Thats right .. im gonna kick butt from the time the school bell rings till mom says its bedtime.<span style="color: #ff0000"> till a group of oranges show up who arent twinked and still own your face for picking on the newbs in the zone it will happen but again you wouldnt know but you still speak that you do having no clue</span></p><p>And when the population starts to dwindle .. and PvP is sparse becaue ..lets face it .. none can handle being owned so often by my uberness (My corpse humping button is worn out /flex) .. ill just move on to another game .. where more people to admire my mad skills.</p><p>/End Level locked Twink Guy </p><p>Ahh that felt good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <span style="color: #ff0000">blahh blahh blahhh</span></p><p>If you are going to post about wanting to enjoy the game with friends can you just tell me the name of the char you are using . I would love to look it up.  blahh blahh blahhh</p><p>Cause i dont buy any of it. <span style="color: #ff0000">blahh blahh blahhh</span></p><p>I just want to look at the hours played , the quests completed, check out the gear. <span style="color: #ff0000">blahh blahh blahhh</span></p><p>Hey perhaps my above assesment of the average locker is off ... but i doubt it. <span style="color: #ff0000"> blahh blahh blahhh</span></p><p>They are imo the easy mode players .. limited skills .. lots of cash(relative to tier) who are abusing a system which would allow players to do the things they say"play with friends" , "enjoy quests" but they dont they just gank.</p><p> . i would like to see these characters. </p><p>The Best PvP fights are in t7 .. Only in that tier have i had 6 v 6 encounters end with. <span style="color: #ff0000"> sure till they evak on site</span></p><p>All 6 player alive after 4 min of combat ..some rezed during the fight. All healers out of power using manastones to crank out a heal as power regens. healers and mages on auto attack trying to kill eachother. </p><p>PvP lives in the upper tiers .. all of the movies of PvP are from t7 .. all of the massive raid battles t7 .. </p><p>t2 and t3 twinks are where the failures of t7 go to prey on the weak ...</p><p>What bothers me is that in t5 t6 t7 .. when raiding becomes the best way to upgrade gear. </p><p>That is when players learn about their class , that is where they learn how to work in a group </p><p>how to heal well , how to enhance the abilities of their group mates, they become good PvP players. </p><p>Its a shame many leave the game in t3 becaue they were griefed soo often in so many unbalanced fights that they never get to see alot of the content .. or learn the skills that would make the game more fun .. and keep healthy populations on the servers.</p><p>To the level locked twinks... </p><p>Come play with me in t7</p><p>where you will earn your gear by grouping with others ,, raiding and doing instances. </p><p>where your opponents will have the hundreds of hours of expierience that you have. </p><p>where we have fought all of the classes .. know our characters. </p><p>we have upgraded our spells ..   </p><p>I swear the lockers are like the 6 foot grade 5 kid with a mustache. </p><p>come play with the big boys.</p></blockquote><p>have you ever thought that people lock in T2 people cant evack the second a con shows up have you ever though about that??  No cause you dont think much you just rant on and on about things you have no real clue about....  Its all the same BS game is exactly the same for all Tiers there are T2 newbs and T7 newbs the twinks gank the T2 newbs you gank the T7 newbs but ohhh that make you such a better player/person <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>T2 = very little to no one evaking T3 and up  evak evak evak evak evak..... yep when you actually find a good fight boom evak....  Its not all that fun really so this is what happend people retire there T7 toon for raiding only till they get enough gear and master to TRY to compete with the super duper ultra T7 TWINKS. </p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>Ill keep that in mind.</p><p>Next time i see t2 classes on nightmare mounts .. ill remember that no evac must level the playing field for the new guys with 0% run speed.  Ohhh thats right it because they cant evac from the 45% runspeed mounts that makes it better.. That way ya dont need to learn how to interupt evac.. that would require skill.</p><p>Or that level locking at the point where new players with no experience enter the game is somehow hard.</p><p>Playing in tiers where ya cant even buy the totems yet to see the stealthed gankers.. </p><p>Or that all of those i guess failed t7 players need to take all they have learned and use it on the players with no knowledge of PvP is seeking hard mode. </p><p>There are no "Real" t2 twinks .. </p><p>it takes a credit card and a trip to a plat seller .. to get to 90% twink status .. </p><p>the other 10% is having such a overpowered toon for the level that you and a friend can farm the names solo </p><p>to get any missing gear.. wow how difficult. </p><p>To play in the upper tiers you need to put in real time and effort. You can buy a toon .. sure .. but ya cant </p><p>start a toon on monday and be a twinked out player on tuesday morning .. (becaue you are financing him with alts)</p><p>Its cheap .. its easy .. dont kid yourselvs into thinking there is some skill there. </p><p>Ganking can be fun i guess. </p><p>Enjoy it .. but dont try to play it off like its enhancing the gameplay of the server.  </p><p>Or is requiring some skill .. or is deserving of respect .. </p><p>as the OP stated .. low level locking is bottom feeding .. </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OMG man </p><p>Why would i come down to easy mode ?</p></blockquote>And why would i level up to easier mode?  Come and get ME =P  It takes soooo much les time, remember? it's soooo easy!  Teach me a lesson... if you've got a pair.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Maliak@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>What is your experience?    You learned in "hard mode"?  By whose standards are you stating it's "harder."  when did you start this game?</p></blockquote><p>about 2 months after pvp launch, eq2 was my first mmo, and as stated previously in this thread i was that lvl 23 guy in island gear wondering why i was getting [Removed for Content] slapped so easy.  I had friends, but they never really took the time to explain to me the importance of gear and combat arts... i mean really explain it.  I figured it all out eventually, and they gave me the whole "that's what we've been trying to tell you" schpeel.. but it took a long long time.</p><p>Maliak@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>They do it because they can "win" they can "defeat their opponents", and that T7 sucks (and I ask again to give me your T7 toons' name so I can look you up)...   </p></blockquote><p>I do it because the pvp is balanced, fair, and fun.  Go read my response to your "whine" about plate classes.. cracked me up when i read that.</p><p>And i think you keep making jabs at Jaided.. and i don't think it's really neccisary.  What i have read/learned about T7 pvp has absolutely nothing to do with her, so why not knock it off rather than being a tool?  If you're not.. then fine, i apologize, but i am pretty sure that's what you're doing.</p></blockquote><p>My post wasn't a whine... it was an informative post.  What cracks me up is that I must make so much sense you're resorting to pointless flaming, in completely unrelated threads that have nothing to do with anything you're involved in.  Sounds like I hurt your feelings.  I'm glad.   </p><p>Read the poster above.  The poorly formatted message.  That pretty much sums up how I feel about the subject.  I told you before, you can do what you want, you should try to have fun even if it's beating on lowbies.  I don't think it's "fair" but who am I anyways to make that judgement call.  I will post in rebuttal to your "hard mode" like you need some kind of respect for what you are doing because believe me, it's not hard mode.  Also, you haven't even been to T7 ... how can you comment on it? </p><p><i>I'm not posting to Jaided, I'm posting to you.  Jaided at least has a T7 toon.  Do you?</i></p></blockquote> While Raike may not, I certainly do, and I have certainly had others.  So have quite a few people in this guild, and we all respect Raike.  So why dont you just chill out?  And as far as not being able to 'hack' it or whatever, most of us have made dreadnaught + in multiple tiers, including tier 7.  So dont try to demean players based on their level.  It's fact that you can know what the hell your talking about when it comes to PVP without being in tier 7.  Or did they change it so that pvp starts at level 70 since I logged off yesterday?!?  F F S.  Grow up.

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>And why would i level up to easier mode?  Come and get ME =P  It takes soooo much les time, remember? it's soooo easy!  Teach me a lesson... if you've got a pair. </p><p>What is your name .. </p><p>What server are you on</p>

[Wytie]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ill keep that in mind.</p><p>Next time i see t2 classes on nightmare mounts .. ill remember that no evac must level the playing field for the new guys with 0% run speed. <span style="color: #ff0000">how is this any different than any other Tier some classes dont get run speed....</span></p><p>Or that level locking at the point where new players with no experience enter the game is somehow hard. <span style="color: #ff0000">again no different than farming tokens from newb T7 players</span></p><p>Or that all of those i guess failed t7 players need to take all they have learned and use it on the players with no knowledge of PvP is seeking hard mode. <span style="color: #ff0000"> So i guess a T7 player in mastercraft has a chance agianst a fully raid fabled 70 </span></p><p>There are no "Real" t2 twinks .. </p><p>it takes a credit card and a trip to a plat seller .. to get to 90% twink status ..  <span style="color: #ff0000">As it does with any other class there is plenty of legen/fable gear to buy its just cost a bit more </span></p><p>the other 10% is having such a overpowered toon for the level that you and a friend can farm the names solo to get any missing gear.. wow how difficult.  <span style="color: #ff0000">hmmmm still sounds like every other Tier</span> </p><p>To play in the upper tiers you need to put in real time and effort. You can buy a toon .. sure .. but ya cant </p><p>start a toon on monday and be a twinked out player on tuesday morning .. (becaue you are financing him with alts)  <span style="color: #ff0000">soo this make you a better player rolling more bots than them for your full token gear to roll the newb 70's</span></p><p>Its cheap .. its easy .. dont kid yourselvs into thinking there is some skill there.  <span style="color: #ff0000">you think skill really matters pfff ill take master and fabled gear over skill anyday of the week we'll see who wins my money on the gear and masters everytime</span></p><p>Ganking can be fun i guess.  <span style="color: #ff0000">sure it can thats what we 70's do to bots cause the smart un fabled 70's only come out in raids to get gear so they dont get farmed for fame</span></p><p>Enjoy it .. but dont try to play it off like its enhancing the gameplay of the server.  <span style="color: #ff0000">Enjoy i will is a game your supose to enjoy it, honestly what really fun is owning a yellow twink or even a red non twink now thats fun </span></p><p>Or is requiring some skill .. or is deserving of respect ..  </p><p>as the OP stated .. low level locking is bottom feeding .. </p></blockquote>Everything you cry about happens in all Tiers!

[kreepr]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OMG man </p><p>Why would i come down to easy mode ?</p></blockquote>And why would i level up to easier mode?  Come and get ME =P  It takes soooo much les time, remember? it's soooo easy!  Teach me a lesson... if you've got a pair.</blockquote> <span style="color: #ff0000">LOL I hope he tries, but he wont just like all the other's that like to talk out of there arses about twinked level lockers.</span>

[Bozidar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And why would i level up to easier mode?  Come and get ME =P  It takes soooo much les time, remember? it's soooo easy!  Teach me a lesson... if you've got a pair. </p><p>What is your name .. </p><p>What server are you on</p></blockquote><p>Raike, Nagafen. </p><p><img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=829554120" border="0"> </p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>how is this any different than any other Tier some classes dont get run speed.... </p><p>A: 48% runspeed for 19 plat..  and at higher tiers you can buy the same mount .. after earning 19 plat a non cheating noob cant buy one..  </p><p>Or that level locking at the point where new players with no experience enter the game is somehow hard. again no different than farming tokens from newb T7 players</p><p>A:Yes it is different , but if it isnt .. i wonder why it happens?.. perhaps because if you hit t7 you are not a noob.</p><p>So i guess a T7 player in mastercraft has a chance agianst a fully raid fabled 70 </p><p>A: Yes a T7 player in mastercrafted has a better chance because of the diminishing return curve, the fabled and raid gear in t7 has less a benefit than it does in t2</p><p>it takes a credit card and a trip to a plat seller .. to get to 90% twink status ..  As it does with any other class there is plenty of legen/fable gear to buy its just cost a bit more</p><p>A: you cant buy any of my gear. I earned it all  </p><p> the other 10% is having such a overpowered toon for the level that you and a friend can farm the names solo to get any missing gear.. wow how difficult.  hmmmm still sounds like every other Tier .</p><p>A:No to put the 2 in perspective it would be like a t7 soloing a x2 mob for fabled drops.</p><p>To play in the upper tiers you need to put in real time and effort. You can buy a toon .. sure .. but ya cant </p><p>start a toon on monday and be a twinked out player on tuesday morning .. (becaue you are financing him with alts)  soo this make you a better player rolling more bots than them for your full token gear to roll the newb 70's</p><p>A: Well i dont agree with your point. but what is easymode ? buying plat .. or solo killing 800 bots ?. All the t7's look for the bots to kill. but .......GMWorker or 800 bots ...... i dunno which is harder </p><p> Its cheap .. its easy .. dont kid yourselvs into thinking there is some skill there.  you think skill really matters pfff ill take master and fabled gear over skill anyday of the week we'll see who wins my money on the gear and masters everytime</p><p>A: Gear and masters help ..of course they do .. never discount the skill .. a player who knows his class can compensate for a AdeptI to AdepIII skill level. In T2 the noobies are often trying to beat a Aprentice IV to MasterI difference. </p><p>Ganking can be fun i guess.  sure it can thats what we 70's do to bots cause the smart un fabled 70's only come out in raids to get gear so they dont get farmed for fame.</p><p>A:You know our guild .. we never came out in the x2 or x4 unless it was to fight DoM. we fight in grps of all sizes </p><p>and love the 6v6 .. we dont hide .. and had the highest PvP kills on hte server for freeport .. and were second behind DoM .. but we cant kill our own members so ... i didnt put alot of value in those numbers.</p><p>Ill stand by my opinion that level locking is easy mode play, by players seeking to capitlize on the inexperience of others. By choosing classes that are overpowered in the low tiers, and pumping them up with cash from alts. Suiciding to minimize xp gain to push AA abilities beyond their tier, shch as dps AA's doing 3x the damage of any spell in the tier.</p><p>I think it discourages new players , and turns the lower tiers into a joke. Makes the game and quest content at those levels trivial , and lessens the game expierience for  anyone who wants to try it out.  </p>

[Bozidar]

KannaWhoopass wrote: <blockquote><p>Ill stand by my opinion that level locking is easy mode play, by players seeking to capitlize on the inexperience of others. </p></blockquote><p> Come show me how easy mode it is.  You asked for my character, you have it, and my guild.</p><p>Btw, i have a warden (also op) but i'm sidelining him to plan an inquis and a wizard as my main alts.  They OP too?</p><p>Come show me how easy it is to roll an OP toon and gank people in this tier.</p><p>If i were you, i'd pick a ranger as your class.. cuz you're going to be doing a <i>lot</i> of running.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Its cheap .. its easy .. dont kid yourselvs into thinking there is some skill there.  you think skill really matters pfff ill take master and fabled gear over skill anyday of the week we'll see who wins my money on the gear and masters everytime</p></blockquote><p> I think the skill is there when fighting good players.  i've said plenty of times that there is no challenge and no enjoyment in killing green noobs.  I do it for faction, or fame.  I've walked away from greens before when i just didn't need to kill them (hasn't happened often).  Have you?</p><p>The skill in ANY TIER is good players vs good players.  Fact.  It happens in T2/T3/T4/T5/T6/T7.  Fact.</p><p>You folks feel so bad for the poor noobies coming to the game and having to deal with twinks.. and complete ignore than <b>every single toon that makes it to lvl 62 is greener than kermit the frog vs long-locked level 70 toons!</b>  IMO, i feel sorry for the morons listen when they're told to "level up through that" and reach end-game with no idea how to play their class, no idea how to make money, and no idea how much fun, excitement and action they just missed because they think leveling is the answer.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think it discourages new players , and turns the lower tiers into a joke. Makes the game and quest content at those levels trivial , and lessens the game expierience for  anyone who wants to try it out.  </p></blockquote><p> I've got a guildie who's trying pvp for the first time, he's a pve player.  He's playing a coercer.  Does he have problems in pvp?  Sure, soloing's a [Removed for Content].  Is he going to quit and get discouraged or roll out a warden or a brigand?  No.</p><p>Name the two top loaded servers in EQ2 and then tell me that the game experience is lessened and discourages new players.  Just because you're discouraged by it, doesn't mean all new players are.</p>

[Tillious]

<p>-</p>

[Solitude]

<p>First off I have a level 70 and a level 60 toon for T6 and T7 pvp, then several T2-T3 pvp toons.   The funnest toon to play is the T6 toon locked at 59 whom avoids fighting T7 toons in x4 vs x4 raids.  </p><p> Want to know a good reason that many of the level lockers level lock?  Its because they are sick of raid vs raid pvp where your pc is just going to lag out.  Want to have some of the 70's to get off their level locked toons then stop the raid vs raid pvp.  </p><p> The facts are not everyone will like other peoples styles of play.  There will always be whiney [Removed for Content] complaining.  I just started out a brand new toon in DLW and had no plat or cash on the FP side since all my toons are in Qeynos or Exiled.  I had no problem pvping as a warlock.  All my spells are Adept III and I am in fully master crafted gear or better.  This was accomplished by harvesting.  It's all the lazy people whom want the easy mode.  All it takes is a bit of harvesting to put you a little bit below the level lockers.  Sure people with more AA will probably win versus you.  But at 70 people with more AA and better gear will also win. </p><p> PvP servers aren't ment to be easy mode.  All the people complaining don't belong here.  They are whiney blubies.  Invest time in one character and you'll get some pvp kills here and there just like the level lockers.  They do loose fight too you know.  Your not always going to win there is always going to be somebody better than you. </p>

[Wytie]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>how is this any different than any other Tier some classes dont get run speed.... </p><p>A: 48% runspeed for 19 plat..  and at higher tiers you can buy the same mount .. after earning 19 plat a non cheating noob cant buy one..  </p><p>Or that level locking at the point where new players with no experience enter the game is somehow hard. again no different than farming tokens from newb T7 players</p><p>A:Yes it is different , but if it isnt .. i wonder why it happens?.. perhaps because if you hit t7 you are not a noob.</p><p>So i guess a T7 player in mastercraft has a chance agianst a fully raid fabled 70 </p><p>A: Yes a T7 player in mastercrafted has a better chance because of the diminishing return curve, the fabled and raid gear in t7 has less a benefit than it does in t2</p><p>it takes a credit card and a trip to a plat seller .. to get to 90% twink status ..  As it does with any other class there is plenty of legen/fable gear to buy its just cost a bit more</p><p>A: you cant buy any of my gear. I earned it all  </p><p> the other 10% is having such a overpowered toon for the level that you and a friend can farm the names solo to get any missing gear.. wow how difficult.  hmmmm still sounds like every other Tier .</p><p>A:No to put the 2 in perspective it would be like a t7 soloing a x2 mob for fabled drops.</p><p>To play in the upper tiers you need to put in real time and effort. You can buy a toon .. sure .. but ya cant </p><p>start a toon on monday and be a twinked out player on tuesday morning .. (becaue you are financing him with alts)  soo this make you a better player rolling more bots than them for your full token gear to roll the newb 70's</p><p>A: Well i dont agree with your point. but what is easymode ? buying plat .. or solo killing 800 bots ?. All the t7's look for the bots to kill. but .......GMWorker or 800 bots ...... i dunno which is harder </p><p> Its cheap .. its easy .. dont kid yourselvs into thinking there is some skill there.  you think skill really matters pfff ill take master and fabled gear over skill anyday of the week we'll see who wins my money on the gear and masters everytime</p><p>A: Gear and masters help ..of course they do .. never discount the skill .. a player who knows his class can compensate for a AdeptI to AdepIII skill level. In T2 the noobies are often trying to beat a Aprentice IV to MasterI difference. </p><p>Ganking can be fun i guess.  sure it can thats what we 70's do to bots cause the smart un fabled 70's only come out in raids to get gear so they dont get farmed for fame.</p><p>A:You know our guild .. we never came out in the x2 or x4 unless it was to fight DoM. we fight in grps of all sizes </p><p>and love the 6v6 .. we dont hide .. and had the highest PvP kills on hte server for freeport .. and were second behind DoM .. but we cant kill our own members so ... i didnt put alot of value in those numbers.</p><p>Ill stand by my opinion that level locking is easy mode play, by players seeking to capitlize on the inexperience of others. By choosing classes that are overpowered in the low tiers, and pumping them up with cash from alts. Suiciding to minimize xp gain to push AA abilities beyond their tier, shch as dps AA's doing 3x the damage of any spell in the tier.</p><p>I think it discourages new players , and turns the lower tiers into a joke. Makes the game and quest content at those levels trivial , and lessens the game expierience for  anyone who wants to try it out.  </p></blockquote><p>Well i see you have your opinion and i have mine, but if you think combat xp locking and giving cash to your alts is cheating your just plain WRONG, I have a 70 who has lots of no trade gear and yes its 1000x better than matercrafted if you disagree than your just ignorant, its higher level better stats and resist more procs ect....</p><p>Oh and there are plenty and i mean plenty "too many" of T7 newbs just cause someone has some levels doesnt mean they know a lick about playing there class and just cause someone is level 17 doesnt mean they dont know there class, im not gona argue the fact that its not easier sure it is, but that doesnt make it cheap or wrong it makes it more accesable i have a 70 and a 17 sad to say my 17 gets 50 kills a day solo do you know how many kills my 70 gets solo very few, sure some of those kills on the 17 are green but alot of them were yellow orange and red all solo all classes. It all comes down to what you enjoy i enjoy both. You enjoy 1, were neither right or wrong. But if you think its right to tell others how they should play when we all pay the same then you are WRONG, anyway just my 2cp.  Back to the HT thread <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Image_Vain]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And why would i level up to easier mode?  Come and get ME =P  It takes soooo much les time, remember? it's soooo easy!  Teach me a lesson... if you've got a pair. </p><p>What is your name .. </p><p>What server are you on</p></blockquote><p>Raike, Nagafen. </p><p><img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=829554120" border="0"> </p></blockquote> lol watch out for the online THUG [Removed for Content], newb.

[PeaSy1]

Ok first thing the whole "im a T7 god ima roll a 20 exile and wipe all you noob lockers" was scrapped when they couldnt hold a 1/1 pvp ratio. And the only reason im playing this game is for pvp. I dont craft, I quest rarely save for aa scrambling. Ive tried to get a toon to 70 hes lvl 43 man im tearin it up. Im not soaking money off higher lvl toons. Especially on naggy since i just started there and i am having no problems pvping big deal i win some i lose some. I dont buy plat cause well my bank acount is overdrawn cause my parental fuxed up my cellphone bill. And never plan on buyin any even if i had money. Im a joke in the guild im in (Norrath Pirates) cause i run around with torches and ruins/caves gear on. BUT for some miraculous reason all my naggy toons have slayer are in mainly app1's some in handcrafted stuff, save my troub who i found some sick pants in caves off devoured. I have made about 5p on broker sales since i started on naggy. So essentially broke as a joke but still competing in pvp. Now im way confused.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I didn't read 10 pages but has anyone yet said...</p><p>IT'S FUN</p><p>If not, there you go... Now, did something else matter in the equation?  This is a video game.</p>

[ladyvengeance]

I didn't read all 10 pages either but I agree ---- this is the most fun part of the game. If you think level locking shouldn't be allowed, then don't play the game. Simple as that. If they took out this aspect of the game A LOT of people would quit (including me). All my toons are level locked twinks, and it's fun taking down people 5 or 6 levels higher than me. Why else would I spend 20 plat on a pair of fabled lvl 20 boots???? If you don't like it, then leave. You obviously don't know how to have fun playing this game if you're complaining about this. Go craft and make some decent money so you can buy good gear --- and then maybe you'll come close to killing me.

[Image_Vain]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't read all 10 pages either but I agree ---- this is the most fun part of the game. If you think level locking shouldn't be allowed, then don't play the game. Simple as that. If they took out this aspect of the game A LOT of people would quit (including me). All my toons are level locked twinks, and it's fun taking down people 5 or 6 levels higher than me. Why else would I spend 20 plat on a pair of fabled lvl 20 boots???? If you don't like it, then leave. You obviously don't know how to have fun playing this game if you're complaining about this. Go craft and make some decent money so you can buy good gear --- and then maybe you'll come close to killing me.</blockquote> Quiet newb.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't read all 10 pages either but I agree ---- this is the most fun part of the game. If you think level locking shouldn't be allowed, then don't play the game. Simple as that. If they took out this aspect of the game A LOT of people would quit (including me). All my toons are level locked twinks, and it's fun taking down people 5 or 6 levels higher than me. Why else would I spend 20 plat on a pair of fabled lvl 20 boots???? If you don't like it, then leave. You obviously don't know how to have fun playing this game if you're complaining about this. Go craft and make some decent money so you can buy good gear --- and then maybe you'll come close to killing me.</blockquote> I notice how you all always say people higher then you dont you mean lower and less geared then you?<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cocytus]

<p>Personally, the reason I used to level lock (only one of mine isn't locked and low level) was because my PVE characters take priority, and I enjoy low level PVP. And I did it without twink gear (excluding adept III's) for a long time. I simply didn't have the time to level up.</p><p>Eventually I got a bunch of friends willing to mentor and level me up a lot though and I unlocked one though, haven't regretted it, but, if it wasn't for extremely fast methods of exp, I assure you all my characters would still be locked.</p>

[Nuhus]

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Personally, the reason I used to level lock (only one of mine isn't locked and low level) was because my PVE characters take priority, and I enjoy low level PVP. And I did it without twink gear (excluding adept III's) for a long time. I simply didn't have the time to level up.</p></blockquote>Much the same for me. It's nice though to come back and have a group to play with. My gear/ca's sucks as well. I originally started in FP then started a Q character from scratch. Had to start all over again. Heck, even my FP toon wasn't twinked out by any means.

[Bozidar]

<cite>PeaSy1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok first thing the whole "im a T7 god ima roll a 20 exile and wipe all you noob lockers" was scrapped when they couldnt hold a 1/1 pvp ratio. And the only reason im playing this game is for pvp. I dont craft, I quest rarely save for aa scrambling. Ive tried to get a toon to 70 hes lvl 43 man im tearin it up. Im not soaking money off higher lvl toons. Especially on naggy since i just started there and i am having no problems pvping big deal i win some i lose some. I dont buy plat cause well my bank acount is overdrawn cause my parental fuxed up my cellphone bill. And never plan on buyin any even if i had money. Im a joke in the guild im in (Norrath Pirates) cause i run around with torches and ruins/caves gear on. BUT for some miraculous reason all my naggy toons have slayer are in mainly app1's some in handcrafted stuff, save my troub who i found some sick pants in caves off devoured. I have made about 5p on broker sales since i started on naggy. So essentially broke as a joke but still competing in pvp. Now im way confused. </blockquote>lol, just buy some sisal and send it to me, i'll make you dolls man, or any gear you need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  just ask!!  send a mail!  Hate to see a pirate rolling around w/o his [Removed for Content] cane..

[Bozidar]

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't read all 10 pages either but I agree ---- this is the most fun part of the game. If you think level locking shouldn't be allowed, then don't play the game. Simple as that. If they took out this aspect of the game A LOT of people would quit (including me). All my toons are level locked twinks, and it's fun taking down people 5 or 6 levels higher than me. Why else would I spend 20 plat on a pair of fabled lvl 20 boots???? If you don't like it, then leave. You obviously don't know how to have fun playing this game if you're complaining about this. Go craft and make some decent money so you can buy good gear --- and then maybe you'll come close to killing me.</blockquote> Quiet newb. </blockquote><p>LOL, why don't you add an opinion rather than telling people to stop expressing theirs.</p><p>Or, if you really put the effort in, you can <i>try</i> to contribute less to the actual discussion </p>

[Norrsken]

Wow, this thread grew fast. Hot topic. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MaNiaGG84]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>95% of level lockers have a lvl 70 alt </p><p>feeding them cash </p><p>feeding them items</p><p>Ya said it yourself not your first lvl 70. </p><p>Ok go have some real fun . </p><p>start your character on the opposite faction. </p><p>No friends trading you cash </p><p>No exiling alts with cash </p><p>Just ENJOY the game as you say lock yerself with NO money </p><p>Spend all of your time harvesting that t2 t3 rares for gear and spells</p><p>have no cash to pay the crafters for their time. </p><p>Have no friends make stuff for ya  for free.</p><p>You will be ganked and beaten to a pulp. </p><p>tell me how much you Enjoy that.   </p></blockquote><p>I did extactly that - starting here from scratch, didnt knew anyone, had no money - nada.</p><p>I worked up 6 crafters into T4, collected rares for many hours/days, capped my Exp at 10 and leveled up to level 24 now. All alone, all with max debt and rather successful as well as in PvP as in PvE.</p><p>And know what? I'm having a blast.</p><p>I rather spend 3h doing some silly long quest and getting 4% AA exp than raiding all night long with some stupid raid the same target every evening. I did that more than 2 yrs on PvE and I won't do it again.</p><p>So, because I won't raid, I won't get all those kickass fableds at the endgame and wud get handed my [Removed for Content] to me 24/7.</p><p>Nope sir, I prefer capping and having fun over being level 70 and gettin whooped all the time, just because i won't fit into that "raid-pvper-scheme" that you have to be if you want to be successful in T7. </p>

[MadTexan3]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So basically you're arguing with me about T7 PvP in EQ2 when you have never experienced it. Grats. </blockquote><p>It's not that complicated, really.</p><ol><li>How skills, CAs, spells, resistances work doesn't change from T1 to T7.</li><li>The spells/CAs that alter PVP significantly in the various tiers are well known, Harm Touch, etc.</li><li>The effects of varying levels of gear (Treasured, etc.) remains consistent from T1 to T7.</li></ol><p>It doesn't require any particular genius on my part to have an insight into how PVP in T7 goes.</p><p>Conversely, you're vehemently arguing against those that are locking in T2 and T3 for <i>fun</i> and it really seems like you're forgetting that's what people are supposed to be playing games for.</p>

[Rattfa]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So basically you're arguing with me about T7 PvP in EQ2 when you have never experienced it. Grats. </blockquote><p>It's not that complicated, really.</p><ol><li>How skills, CAs, spells, resistances work doesn't change from T1 to T7.</li><li>The spells/CAs that alter PVP significantly in the various tiers are well known, Harm Touch, etc.</li><li>The effects of varying levels of gear (Treasured, etc.) remains consistent from T1 to T7.</li></ol><p>It doesn't require any particular genius on my part to have an insight into how PVP in T7 goes.</p><p>Conversely, you're vehemently arguing against those that are locking in T2 and T3 for <i>fun</i> and it really seems like you're forgetting that's what people are supposed to be playing games for.</p></blockquote> No. I'm arguing against those locking in t2/3 who ruin the fun of those trying to level up just so you can pretend you're so good at PvP. ZOMG I ganked a bunch of dudes in island gear..im so 1337 because im in fabled gear with 234987 AA....oh wait, you dont play on a PvP server...why are you in this discussion again? Again, you try to talk about T7 as though you know what you're talking about....you dont even have a character close to T7...why are you in this discussion again? Please atleast know where others are coming from before throwing your in misguided opinions.

[Norrsken]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So basically you're arguing with me about T7 PvP in EQ2 when you have never experienced it. Grats. </blockquote><p>It's not that complicated, really.</p><ol><li>How skills, CAs, spells, resistances work doesn't change from T1 to T7.</li><li>The spells/CAs that alter PVP significantly in the various tiers are well known, Harm Touch, etc.</li><li>The effects of varying levels of gear (Treasured, etc.) remains consistent from T1 to T7.</li></ol><p>It doesn't require any particular genius on my part to have an insight into how PVP in T7 goes.</p><p>Conversely, you're vehemently arguing against those that are locking in T2 and T3 for <i>fun</i> and it really seems like you're forgetting that's what people are supposed to be playing games for.</p></blockquote>Actually, in t7, itemization has broken away from the norm that is set in the old world content. Even in t6 you can see the prelude to this. In theory, it should be the same, in reality, it is not.

[Eybietie]

<p> all i have to say : <img src="http://www.zerow.com/eyb_art/temp_gb/lvllock.jpg" border="0"></p><p>the full fabled t7 warden made me lol irl tbh. keep crying let it all go. but don´t drown in the ocean of tears...</p>

[MadTexan3]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>No. I'm arguing against those locking in t2/3 who ruin the fun of those trying to level up just so you can pretend you're so good at PvP. ZOMG I ganked a bunch of dudes in island gear..im so 1337 because im in fabled gear with 234987 AA....oh wait, you dont play on a PvP server...why are you in this discussion again? </blockquote><p>Even if the majority of the players locking in T2-3 were doing just as you say, it would be <u>no different</u> than those at 70th and geared up preying on those just hitting T7.</p><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>Again, you try to talk about T7 as though you know what you're talking about....you dont even have a character close to T7...why are you in this discussion again? </blockquote><p>As I already said previously:</p><ol><li>I have over a year of experience in WoW PVP at the top end and there are very few differences between the 2 games where PVP is concerned.</li><li>I know how the game works in the lower tiers and anyone not being intentionally closeminded knows that there is very little effective difference in PVE or PVP between T2-3 and T7 beyond the effects of resistances.</li></ol><p>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote>Please atleast know where others are coming from before throwing your in misguided opinions. </blockquote><p>I don't need to see where you're coming to have the 'right' to voice my opinion from where I'm coming from. Further, I could easily turn your advice around and tell you to take it yourself but I'm not that pompous.</p><p>The proposal to remove locking doesn't improve PVP in any shape or fashion, it merely moves any perceived imbalances from T2-3 to T7 and removes an option for competitive PVP that anyone can reasonably take regardless of their available game time. <i>That's</i> why I'm in this discussion, to voice my opposition to the proposal.</p>

[MadTexan3]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Actually, in t7, itemization has broken away from the norm that is set in the old world content. Even in t6 you can see the prelude to this. In theory, it should be the same, in reality, it is not. </blockquote>The effects in general, however, are still the same--a character in Fabled has the edge over someone in Legendary who has the edge over someone in Mastercrafted.

[Novusod]

I agree with the OP that level-locking is cheap and ridiculous, but I disagree that it is wrong. My last twink was built on a budget of 2 plat which a I spent on Blackened Iron and loams. The rest was treasured quested gear and drops. In two days I had a 14 with 14aa and I didn't even use xp debt. I took him over to Darklight woods and proceeded to kill every Arsai I saw. In five days I had nearly 700 kills and about 150 deaths due to other twinks. I didn't do it for titles, or to greif but did it for the faction purchased loot. Now I will have PvP gear for T3 waiting for me when I level up. That of course is ridiculous. But the truth is anyone could do exactly what I just did this week. Level lock, put in the time, get your kills, and move on. T2 is the only time MC gear is enough to PvP with and anyone can get that type of gear in a day or two. Players who I ganked at level 10 where in a matter of hours out leveling me and ganking me back. It is not wrong, it is easy that's all. If you can't take a few ganks then seriously the blue servers are that way man.

[Orthureon]

<p>OH NOES! Now people are doing lots of quests because they know they can make their character more powerful, HOW CHEAP! Level locking for AA and PVP is that persons choice, I have one toon I level locked for AA/PVP, just because nearly everyone else does. There is no advantage of it, since mostly everyone is twinked beyond belief. You also have to take into consideration of other people being able to have the best gear/spells avaiable and sometimes the only way to get on even playing grounds is to get AA. Yeah man locking my uber Inquisitor right out of the box is a cheap tactic (hope you noted the sarcasm). Some classes such as the Inquis NEED AA to do solo PVP. Without it, it would look like. </p><p> Player x has engaged you</p><p>You start to cast your big reactive (which takes 5 secs)</p><p>Interrupted (ok lets try again)</p><p>Start casting</p><p>Interrupted three times in a row  (but not an actual interrupt just one that starts casting over, which is basically the same)</p><p>Stunned/knockbacked/stifled</p><p>You are at half health and with our uber DPS without AA they are at 95% or more if you cast a damage spell on them.</p><p>Cast your small reactive (2 sec)</p><p>Interrupted</p><p>and so on and so forth.</p><p>Some classes need AA a lot more than others to be a viable PVP class, sure I could roll a Druid, Brigand, or Bruiser (I only play evil toons) but where is the fun in playing a class everyone else does. I do have a lowbie Warden, but I never play him because I know my inquis will be more of a challenge.</p>

[Norrsken]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Actually, in t7, itemization has broken away from the norm that is set in the old world content. Even in t6 you can see the prelude to this. In theory, it should be the same, in reality, it is not. </blockquote>The effects in general, however, are still the same--a character in Fabled has the edge over someone in Legendary who has the edge over someone in Mastercrafted. </blockquote>In t6 this pattern does not hold true.

[MadTexan3]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>In t6 this pattern does not hold true. </blockquote><p>I see.</p><p>Regardless, someone at 70th level geared up in Fabled has a huge advantage over someone 62nd level just starting the Legendary quests and this is exactly the same situation Rattface complains about regarding T2-3 who are geared up and beating on those in Treasured and fresh off the island.</p>

[zorros]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>So basically you're arguing with me about T7 PvP in EQ2 when you have never experienced it. Grats. </blockquote><p>It's not that complicated, really.</p><ol><li>How skills, CAs, spells, resistances work doesn't change from T1 to T7.</li><li>The spells/CAs that alter PVP significantly in the various tiers are well known, Harm Touch, etc.</li><li>The effects of varying levels of gear (Treasured, etc.) remains consistent from T1 to T7.</li></ol><p>It doesn't require any particular genius on my part to have an insight into how PVP in T7 goes.</p><p>Conversely, you're vehemently arguing against those that are locking in T2 and T3 for <i>fun</i> and it really seems like you're forgetting that's what people are supposed to be playing games for.</p></blockquote> No. I'm arguing against those locking in t2/3 who ruin the fun of those trying to level up just so you can pretend you're so good at PvP. ZOMG I ganked a bunch of dudes in island gear..im so 1337 because im in fabled gear with 234987 AA....oh wait, you dont play on a PvP server...why are you in this discussion again? Again, you try to talk about T7 as though you know what you're talking about....you dont even have a character close to T7...why are you in this discussion again? Please atleast know where others are coming from before throwing your in misguided opinions. </blockquote><p> T7 is all about raid gear and some people do not wish to raid full stop.Been there done that and dont want to do it again.</p><p>T3 is quick and easy.Any fool can get the gear in less than a week.</p>

[Bozidar]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><ol><li> No. I'm arguing against those locking in t2/3 who ruin the fun of those trying to level up just so you can pretend you're so good at PvP. ZOMG I ganked a bunch of dudes in island gear..im so 1337 because im in fabled gear with 234987 AA....oh wait, you dont play on a PvP server...why are you in this discussion again? Again, you try to talk about T7 as though you know what you're talking about....you dont even have a character close to T7...why are you in this discussion again? Please atleast know where others are coming from before throwing your in misguided opinions. </li></ol></blockquote><p> you don't ruin the fun of people leveling up at T7?  you don't gank a bunch of guys who are in the equivilant of island gear vs what you wear?</p><p>phuuuleeeeezzee.. end the hypocracy.</p>

[Image_Vain]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><ol><li> No. I'm arguing against those locking in t2/3 who ruin the fun of those trying to level up just so you can pretend you're so good at PvP. ZOMG I ganked a bunch of dudes in island gear..im so 1337 because im in fabled gear with 234987 AA....oh wait, you dont play on a PvP server...why are you in this discussion again? Again, you try to talk about T7 as though you know what you're talking about....you dont even have a character close to T7...why are you in this discussion again? Please atleast know where others are coming from before throwing your in misguided opinions. </li></ol></blockquote><p> you don't ruin the fun of people leveling up at T7?  you don't gank a bunch of guys who are in the equivilant of island gear vs what you wear?</p><p>phuuuleeeeezzee.. end the hypocracy.</p></blockquote> Didn't I tell you to be quiet, boy? please stop trying to act tough on the forums.   Anyway, lvl locking is cowardly, and childish, and takes away all fun from PvP.

[Stew2782]

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Didn't I tell you to be quiet, boy? please stop trying to act tough on the forums.   Anyway, lvl locking is cowardly, and <b>childish</b>, and takes away all fun from PvP. </blockquote>Oops, someone made a valid comment that I don't agree with... I know, let's take the very <b>mature</b> attitude of telling them to shut up and be quiet! Patently many here find it MORE fun at the lower levels. You are however perfectly entitled to your own opinion, in which case you don't need to play at those teirs. It's certainly not cowardly by T3 or T4, as almost everyone you meet is twinked out by that kind of level and you'll have to face people who out level you all the time. What you don't get all that much are opponents who are fully specced out in fabled, counting on better gear to make up for what they lack in ability. There seems to be some sort of myth here that there are lots of people running about at low lvl with crappy gear who are easy kills. Maybe at lvl 10-14 that's still the case, but as anyone who is playing beyond that can tell you the vast majority of players that you run into are well prepared and geared out.

[Killque]

<p>This is war, but its not like were strapping handgernades to children or anything for christs sake!</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is war, but its not like were strapping handgernades to children or anything for christs sake!</p></blockquote>We arent? Whoops. Brb!

[Bloodfa]

<p>Just as a "for what it's worth", the other day a guy who recently returned to the game asked me for some feedback and a bit of help.  He was wondering what happened to the game in his absence.  He couldn't figure out how he and the pally he was running with were getting so slammed so fast by uber-twinks.  After showing him around to a couple spots to level safely and move on to a slightly less dangerous tier, and tossing half a plat so he could upgrade some spells, I told him it gets better.  Hopefully, he'll stick it out.  But it makes you wonder how many just cancel after 1 month, because I doubt that the majority of those that do would bother to find the forums and mention it.</p><p>PvP's a [Removed for Content], plain & simple.  But it beats PvE, level-locked or not.</p>

[Wytie]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Just as a "for what it's worth", the other day a guy who recently returned to the game asked me for some feedback and a bit of help.  He was wondering what happened to the game in his absence.  He couldn't figure out how he and the pally he was running with were getting so slammed so fast by uber-twinks.  After showing him around to a couple spots to level safely and move on to a slightly less dangerous tier, and tossing half a plat so he could upgrade some spells, I told him it gets better.  Hopefully, he'll stick it out.  But it makes you wonder how many just cancel after 1 month, because I doubt that the majority of those that do would bother to find the forums and mention it.</p><p>PvP's a [I cannot control my vocabulary], plain & simple.  But it beats PvE, level-locked or not.</p></blockquote><p>Thats the thing, those that quit after that 1st month were cut out for pvp anyway. Its full of a lot of BS.</p><p>I really dont unstand the prob its soooo easy to tell a twink from a nontwink.  1st thing horse, 2nd thing higher than normal title for being low level its just that simple, if your not a twink and see them just run and run fast, thats something you need to learn how to do anyway, if you cant do/handle that well your on the wrong server anyway........</p><p><u>If you play on a pvp server you need to be on the</u> <u>forums and read them before even playing</u> if your not your not gona have a clue and thoses who dont have a clue wont be very good very fast and just wont cut it IMO </p>

[Roald]

<p>Ok, heres my point of view on this subject:</p><p>About 6-8 weeks ago, my current guild on Nagafen was formed. We ALL started from nothing. I think there was only one person with a higher level Main, and that main was exiled so that didnt help.</p><p>We all worked hard from NOTHING, leveling up to 10, grinding AA levels, and farming items/rares to make money.</p><p>Now through all our members and leaders hard work, I personally think we are the best T2 guild on naggy.</p><p>So all you noobs moaning and crying please, either put the time in, work your [Removed for Content] off, then succeed: OR carry on crying.</p><p>On a small side note, please learn the game mechanics before you post, you cannot get champ/dread off untitled people. To get dread you need to be killing at least destroyers.</p>

[Rattfa]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><ol><li> No. I'm arguing against those locking in t2/3 who ruin the fun of those trying to level up just so you can pretend you're so good at PvP. ZOMG I ganked a bunch of dudes in island gear..im so 1337 because im in fabled gear with 234987 AA....oh wait, you dont play on a PvP server...why are you in this discussion again? Again, you try to talk about T7 as though you know what you're talking about....you dont even have a character close to T7...why are you in this discussion again? Please atleast know where others are coming from before throwing your in misguided opinions. </li></ol></blockquote><p> you don't ruin the fun of people leveling up at T7?  you don't gank a bunch of guys who are in the equivilant of island gear vs what you wear?</p><p>phuuuleeeeezzee.. end the hypocracy.</p></blockquote> 90% of the people I fight, be it solo or in a group are better geared than I am, and are also level 70. I dont know where you get the idea that I spend my time killing greens and greys in bad gear. Sure it happens, but rarely. When I PvP it's usually in Sinking Sands (restricted level range) or Barren Sky/Bonemire....rarely are there people levelling up there.

[Darkothe]

<p>Well, here's my issue - and this is coming from a person who just recently started playing EQII.  I love pvp, but have found that for the last week I've been having my [Removed for Content] handed to me by lower level or even con toons.  Classic example was yesterday when I came across an even con scout (I am a brigand) and figured - "Oh yeah...finally some decent pvp"...Not so much.  Within two hits I was down...and this was before some lightning proc zapped my corpse.  Instead of getting all hot over it, I just had to laugh at the situation.  Why you may ask?  There's not a [Removed for Content] thing I could have done to win that fight.  I'm not a [Removed for Content] pvp fighter, but not awesome either, but for an even con to take me down in two shots and have something on him proc as well just confirmed that I had just been pwnd by a lock-twink.</p><p>I just find it kind of sad that people like that are taking alot of the fun out of pvp for those of us who aren't in a guild yet, don't have someone to twink us out in the ridiculous gear some of these mouth breathers are using and/or haven't been level locked getting AA's to assist in their twinked pillaging of the lowbies.  Sure, it's fun to twink out your characters - and I've done that plenty of times on a pve server on various games, but never on a pvp server.  Why?  Cowards and people who lack skill hide behind these toons - and it's their subscription right to run amok slaughtering those of us who are trying to progress honestly in the game.  Best way I think to really have a real world comparisons for these twink-locks would be men going through a mid-life crisis and going out to buy that shiny, red sports car and getting a teen-age mistress or those guys who drive monster trucks to over compensate for short comings in other departments - yeah...twinkers could have issues with [Removed for Content] envy.  Don't worry guys...you may be pathetically whipped in the real world with your genetic short comings, but log into EQII with your UBERTWINKAGELEVELOCKEDTOONFROMHELL and you can feel like a real man - grats!</p><p>So, my choices at this point.  Cry and give up - Not going to happen.  Continue leveling past the teens and twenties to get away from these spineless clowns in the hope of having real pvp against people of skill and not children hiding behind gear their toons shouldn't have at their level - Yeah...that's it.  So, if I see you coming, and I know you're a twink...and trust me I've already got a nice list of Q's who I've found to be level locked twinks...I'll stay far enough away from you that you'll never see my stealthed little butt, or if need be I'll avoid combat with you.  Anyone take offence to my observations is more than welcome to roll a new toon and level him up getting only gear from quests, drops and what you can make and we'll have some real pvp time...not another round of "Let's watch the talentless hack own the noobs with his twink gear and level locked AA's."  Sorry, you losers can kill me all you want...you simply fail to impress me.</p>

[Norrsken]

Actually, its not hard to keep your own toons geared out well enough to own face. Pretty much all of my toons have paid for their own gear, and the necro in my sig still does, although, I kinda skip every second tier of gear because of costs and not feeling like stopping to farm plat every once in a while on this toon. Its not hard outfitting yourself in full mastercrafted, both gear and spells, and with that, you should be able to take on twinks. Sure, you arent gonna move upwards in levels at lightnings peed, but heck, if I can own face with a clothie in 2 tiers old gear, you should be able to own face with your brig in decent gear. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bozidar]

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Didn't I tell you to be quiet, boy? please stop trying to act tough on the forums.   Anyway, lvl locking is cowardly, and childish, and takes away all fun from PvP. </blockquote><p> Can you please link the thread where it says i have to ask the permission of a [Removed for Content] in order to voice my opinion?  Just trying to follow the rules here.. so if that's a rule, let me know.</p><p>As for what's cowardly childish and takes fun from pvp, it's entirely based on opinion, and i could give a flying [Removed for Content] what you think <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Bozidar]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote> 90% of the people I fight, be it solo or in a group are better geared than I am, and are also level 70. I dont know where you get the idea that I spend my time killing greens and greys in bad gear. Sure it happens, but rarely. When I PvP it's usually in Sinking Sands (restricted level range) or Barren Sky/Bonemire....rarely are there people levelling up there. </blockquote><p> 90% of the people i fight are better geared than i am and are HIGHER level than I am.</p><p>whoops.. </p><p>And you can say what you do.. but don't mean you're telling the truth.  you're going to pass up a token from a green in sinking sands (yeah, there's NOOOO leveling going on there <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )??  I think not.</p><p>Just because we're not at level cap don't mean that we're looking for easy fights any more than you are.  <i>think it through</i>.  How many times do i have to go over this?</p><p>There's no fun in hunting easy greens.  You do what you have to to get the faction, but that's it.. you move on.. and look for the great fights.  How is that any different than what the lvl 70 level lockers do?</p><p>Oh, yeah, we have higher level people to fight too..</p>

[Rattfa]

Anybody actually levelling in Sinking Sands will be 45-55. Therefore unattackable to a level 70. Even if they were, T6 tokens are next to worthless.

[Fleaba]

<p>Ok, I've very new to the Venekor server myself. I have a main on Crushbone but on Venekor I started from scratch.</p><p>I found out the hard way immediatly about twinks. What did I do? I played there game. I locked my xp and quested, quested, quested. I figured out how to make money and geared myself out. I caught the eye of another Q who thought I was quite the scrapper and they invited me to there guild and borrowed me "borrowed" being the key word. Enough money to buy a horse. I'm now lvl 37 and I'll tell you what. Those twinks and the dudes boasting about there kills via video's etc on the forums don't take me lightly anymore. As a matter of fact some of the more twinked out peeps that are orange cons to me won't hang around for long solo when I'm around. I've fought a good majority of my nemisis one vs. one and killed them all. I don't care about no stinkin title, as a matter of fact, when I'm at slayer, I can finally get the champs to step off the docks to take me on cuz they don't need to worry about there fame.</p><p>Sure, I get face pwned on a regular basis, and more then once ganked by full groups. But then again, there's times our group of 3 to 4 greens and blues make there groups look silly when we smoke em. To me thats where the satisfaction comes in, when orange gankers getting humiliated by greens and blues.</p><p>Alas, the lvl 14's who feed on TOTAL noobs are [I cannot control my vocabulary] to the highest lvl. I was embarrassed for Qyenos today when I heard about how we had a bunch of them running around the new zone griefing them lil fae dudes over and over. My buddy who made one to betray couldn't even step away from the rez spot without the same group killing him each and every time. THAT is what is keeping our population down.</p><p>So don't take away my aa's, or ability to accrue them. I don't abuse them by griefing nubs in el or zek...I kill them once then give them a pet message that says have a nice day and go enjoy your questing. I however will do my best to make the other twinks out there miserable. MUAHAHAHAHA</p><p>Hammburgler of Venekor</p><p>P.S. If you come to our turf and start causing trouble, I don't care if you are grey or red. If you are attackable and I think I have a shot (heck sometimes I even try the impossible) I'm gonna kill ya. If you go to SH to farm Q's I'm gonna do my best to NOT let you past the first room. To some that may be griefing, but to me thats protecting my lower lvl Q's.</p>

[zorros]

Rattface@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Anybody actually levelling in Sinking Sands will be 45-55. Therefore unattackable to a level 70. Even if they were, T6 tokens are next to worthless. </blockquote><p> I got chased and killed by lvl 70s(mainly exiles) when i was 58 in TT.Hell i even got chased from the quest guy by the waterfall to the top part of zone by 2 lvl 70s drooling at the chance to gank a solo 59 grey caster.</p><p>I will say it again T3-t4 is so easy to twink up and have decent fights but for some people that dont belong to a t7 raiding guild or do not want to raid,t7 is not alot of fun for certain classes unless you have a group or raid to run around with at all times.</p><p>Most people i play with atm HAVE t7 toons and are fed up it and have now rolled alts.People pay their money to soe let them play which ever way they like withing the rules</p><p>If anything should be done to stop lvl locking then its to stop lvl locking BEFORE lvl 20 then the "new" players get more of a chance to gear up and aa up.</p>

[CresentBlade]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>In t6 this pattern does not hold true. </blockquote><p>I see.</p><p>Regardless, someone at 70th level geared up in Fabled has a huge advantage over someone 62nd level just starting the Legendary quests and this is exactly the same situation Rattface complains about regarding T2-3 who are geared up and beating on those in Treasured and fresh off the island.</p></blockquote>Huge difference being that by t6 you have learned alot and know the game alot better before having to face hard players, this is NOT so in teir 2 where new players are being run off the pvp servers.

[Bjerde]

Oh yeah, Qs are having a blast in Darklight Woods. I made an arsai inquis and just turned 10, was resting for mana and a red grp of Dreadnaughts, with one orange Destroyer (lvl 14) zoned in, the lvl 14 basically one-shotted meh. I just laughed, I thought it was as funny as I am sure they did. I got rolled. You will get ganked, twinks or not. There have been oranges preying newb yards /revive spots since day one...hence the unlimited immunity now. Those that quit after a month, would have quit anyway.

[Killque]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Just as a "for what it's worth", the other day a guy who recently returned to the game asked me for some feedback and a bit of help.  He was wondering what happened to the game in his absence.  He couldn't figure out how he and the pally he was running with were getting so slammed so fast by uber-twinks.  After showing him around to a couple spots to level safely and move on to a slightly less dangerous tier, and tossing half a plat so he could upgrade some spells, I told him it gets better.  Hopefully, he'll stick it out.  But it makes you wonder how many just cancel after 1 month, because I doubt that the majority of those that do would bother to find the forums and mention it.</p><p>PvP's a [I cannot control my vocabulary], plain & simple.  But it beats PvE, level-locked or not.</p></blockquote> Half a plat??? My food/water for one playing session costs more than that for gods sake.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Just as a "for what it's worth", the other day a guy who recently returned to the game asked me for some feedback and a bit of help.  He was wondering what happened to the game in his absence.  He couldn't figure out how he and the pally he was running with were getting so slammed so fast by uber-twinks.  After showing him around to a couple spots to level safely and move on to a slightly less dangerous tier, and tossing half a plat so he could upgrade some spells, I told him it gets better.  Hopefully, he'll stick it out.  But it makes you wonder how many just cancel after 1 month, because I doubt that the majority of those that do would bother to find the forums and mention it.</p><p>PvP's a [I cannot control my vocabulary], plain & simple.  But it beats PvE, level-locked or not.</p></blockquote> Half a plat??? My food/water for one playing session costs more than that for gods sake.</blockquote><p>Just how many strangers have you offered coin to lately?  50 gold should be enough to get a level 18 wizzy some spell upgrades, and when he and his pal hit 22, they're getting free imbued steel weapons, assuming that they stick it out.  I don't feel too bad about some pro-bono work; I might end up running with them with an alt.  You never know....</p><p>And my food & drink costs me fuel with a Provisioner alt <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[StrollingWolf]

Keep the discussion civil please.

[Wytie]

<cite>StrollingWolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>Keep the discussion civil please.</blockquote> The title of this thread isnt very civil IMO, might as well go ahead and lock it, its not really going anywhere......

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StrollingWolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>Keep the discussion civil please.</blockquote> The title of this thread isnt very civil IMO, might as well go ahead and lock it, its not really going anywhere......</blockquote>Kind of like it says location on your forum name area (with your wife) thats civil

[Wytie]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StrollingWolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>Keep the discussion civil please.</blockquote> The title of this thread isnt very civil IMO, might as well go ahead and lock it, its not really going anywhere......</blockquote>Kind of like it says location on your forum name area (with your wife) thats civil </blockquote><p>No... <i>thats comical,</i> but not recommended <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nothing about me is civil nor did i ever say it was, actually everything about me is as un-civil as it gets....  see Main toons name below is that civil too?</p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StrollingWolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>Keep the discussion civil please.</blockquote> The title of this thread isnt very civil IMO, might as well go ahead and lock it, its not really going anywhere......</blockquote>Kind of like it says location on your forum name area (with your wife) thats civil </blockquote><p>No... <i>thats comical,</i> but not recommended <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nothing about me is civil nor did i ever say it was, actually everything about me is as un-civil as it gets....  see Main toons name below is that civil too?</p></blockquote>The name is perfectly fitting for a pvp server.

[Microbolt]

<p>All flames and attacks aside.  T7 would be so much better if most of the level lockers would unlock.  It's not hard to get the fabeled gear at 70.  You can get a fairly nice set of gear raiding 4 weeks or less with an active raiding guild.</p><p>I'm all for locking for specific reason, but to be able to PvP in a lower tier shouldn't be one of them IMO.</p><p>When it all comes down to it, its your choice wether you lock or not.  But, just think about how fun T7 could be with all lockers at 70</p>

[CresentBlade]

<p>After reading some of the replies by the level lockers I just had to make a post about. </p><p>[Insert a 32 string of words comment that would give the forum mods no choice but to ban posting rights]</p><p>The biggest defense and most used by lockers is that they got tired of getting raided and ganked by better geared players in Teir 6-7. So what do they do? They drop all the way down to Teir 2-3 and <b>DO THE SAME THING THAT THEY COULD NOT HANDLE TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST STARTING OUT IN THE GAME.</b><b> </b>And to have the nerve to say that new players that cant handle it would quit pvp because it is not their thing?Or they would not of lasted on a pvp server anyway?!?</p><p>You all couldnt hack it and it was so bad that you DROPPED SEVERAL TEIRS and you DARE make comments about new players L2P? You could not handle it when you had several teirs under your belts and plenty of gaming experince already, and you expect some new player coming in to handle 2-3 teirs before you even did?? And look where your at now, if a new player drops a couple of teirs guess what they are NOT EVEN PLAYING ANYMORE. You all need to wake up because your living in a self impossed dream world where you can do no wrong.</p><p>Most (not all) of you lockers come up with many other lame excuses like waiting on your friends, I have seen a bunch of you around for a lonnnnng time at the same level. Only thing your waiting on is the next player you find 4 levels lower then you and poorly gear to gank and kill to make your self feel better. Another excuse you want the status for pvp gear...thats about 300 pvp kills thats it. You all claim that level locking gives you alot more pvp targets well 300 kills should be fast and simple, so why are you still locked in teir 2?</p><p>*On a side note all of you easy mode players need to stop telling players that play real classes L2P, how about you all L2P a real class that requires some skill? And then you can come back and talk like you know something.</p><p>Level locking is beyond out of control and the excuses are so far fetched it makes a septic system gag.</p><p>Why dont you all just tell the truth.</p><p>1) You couldnt hack it in upper teirs because it was unfair that others had better gear or would out number you in fights. YET here you are now in the lower teirs doing the same thing you could not handle to new unskilled under geared players. Boy sure is some skill.</p><p>2) You gank lowbies and run from anything that might remotely make you lose. But as people seem to defend running from every fight is skill. Which I guess is what title farmers mean now when they say it takes skill to get a title.</p><p>It all comes down to you could not handle the upper teirs even with several teirs to learn your classes and gain gear and you had to drop several teirs to get away from it. Now you grief and hassle new players the same way you COULDNT handle even with all the time you had over new players.</p><p>And ya I am sure I will hear I pay I can play how I like and what right do you have to tell me otherwise...well your play style is KILLING off most of the supply of new players and in effect slowly killing the game, why? All because you couldnt hack it.</p><p>/rant off</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The biggest defense and most used by lockers is that they got tired of getting raided and ganked by better geared players in Teir 6-7. </p></blockquote><p>You need glasses, or a class on the english language.</p><p>Count up the number of folks that replied in favor of locking, and then tell me how many folks said it was for this reason.</p><p>How you can read 13 pages of this thread and come up with that is beyond me.</p>

[PeaSy1]

actualy its about 550 kills for faction for non healers and about 700 kills for healers.

[silentpsycho]

Virii@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>All flames and attacks aside.  T7 would be so much better if most of the level lockers would unlock.  It's not hard to get the fabeled gear at 70.  You can get a fairly nice set of gear raiding 4 weeks or less with an active raiding guild.</p><p>I'm all for locking for specific reason, but to be able to PvP in a lower tier shouldn't be one of them IMO.</p><p>When it all comes down to it, its your choice wether you lock or not.  But, just think about how fun T7 could be with all lockers at 70</p></blockquote> <p>There are two facts that people need to understand about EQ2 pvp before any sensible discussion can be had about this:</p><p>1) The tier you are in is meerly a reflection of the "unlocked" time you have played your toon.  It is clearly NOT a reflection of difficulty of the game, your skill, or abilities to play your class (other than having access to, and familiarity with, the full range of abilities of your class).  Some will argue, correctly, that lower tiers are more diffuclt to PVP in due to the fact that you have to deal with yellow and orange cons with a much restricted skillset and less available gear selection, and these orange con's can pretty much wipe the floor with you (even 1v1) regardless of gear or skill.  In T7, you have the luxury of knowing you will never find more than an even con fight, and most likely, you will run into green or blues if you are out actively PVP'ing.  Honestly, more difficult PVP fights occur in lower tiers than in T7.  If you don't have a T7 toon to experience this first hand, reference any of the 5 bajillion T7 gank videos posted in this forum.</p><p>2) If you ever want to get anywhere near the 600-700 kills you need to get the most basic entry level 20's pvp gear, you *must* lock combat exp and/or accumulate debt.  Killing over 700 PVP toons leveled my assasin from 12 to around 45, not questing, not grinding, just PVP (and disco I suppose), unlocked.  Heck, even your combat/casting skills fall far behind if you don't lock and actively work on raising them.  It's far too easy to level in EQ2.  On my unlocked toons, I spend time every day I log in deleting quests that I've outleveled.</p><p>While T7 PVP might be slightly more interesting (for you) if locking were not possible and everyone was funneled into KOS zones, a lot (if not most) people would grind to the end and just quit.  Some people enjoy a challenge.  Some people enjoy variety.  Some people enjoy having a chance.  From what I've seen (first hand, mind you), T7 PVP is cloud hopping around killing people in raids, or solo/small groups getting killed by raids.  It gets really tiresome.  I have far more places to hunt and a more skilled, capable and scary selection of targets T2-T5.  This is why I re-rolled (and locked) my 70's.</p>

[Darkothe]

<p>I can appreciate the sentiment in being bored at the top of the game.  Having come from WoW where I have 3 lvl 70 toons that I raided with and pvp'd with regularly...I left the game because I was bored.  I came over to EQII for some really good pvp, and instead am ganked constantly by locked, twink, de-leveled players.  There has got to be some way to accomodate those of you who are locked for understandable reasons while taking those players who are locked in "T2-T3 simply to get easy kills and grief lower level characters who don't have the finances to properly equip to stand against you all" out behind the wood shed for a good beating.</p><p>So, while I can understand where some of you are coming from, throw us newbs that don't have the plat, guild and higher level alts a frickin' bone.  We're here to have fun and pvp - not log in every night to play target practice for a bunch of bored, juvenile, sad, socially stunted reprobates.  Trust me...as soon as I can I'm getting out of this level bracket and never looking back.  The "welcome" to the Nagafen server from some of you twisted, slack-jawed troglodytes would have probably made most re-roll to a care bear server - but I'm here for real pvp, and if it takes leveling to T7 to play with the "real deal" and experience pvp with real pvpers...so be it.</p><p>Yo Psycho...Seattle here too!</p>

[zorros]

Virii@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>All flames and attacks aside.  T7 would be so much better if most of the level lockers would unlock.  It's not hard to get the fabeled gear at 70.  <span style="font-size: x-large">You can get a fairly nice set of gear raiding 4 weeks or less with an active raiding guild.</span></p><p>I'm all for locking for specific reason, but to be able to PvP in a lower tier shouldn't be one of them IMO.</p><p>When it all comes down to it, its your choice wether you lock or not.  But, just think about how fun T7 could be with all lockers at 70</p></blockquote><p>If you belong to a raid guild.If you get enough dkp after joining to get fabled.If you want to raid for 4weeks pve when this is a pvp server.Finally If you can get into a raiding guild that plays in your timezone.</p><p>Or you could just lvl a character to 26-36 in less than a week and have a great time pvping.</p><p>IMO they should get rid of instances make all raid zones contested and the only way you could lvl is by pvp alone. </p>

[Wytie]

<cite>Darkothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I can appreciate the sentiment in being bored at the top of the game.  Having come from WoW where I have 3 lvl 70 toons that I raided with and pvp'd with regularly...I left the game because I was bored.  I came over to EQII for some really good pvp, and instead am ganked constantly by locked, twink, de-leveled players.  There has got to be some way to accomodate those of you who are locked for understandable reasons while taking those players who are locked in "T2-T3 simply to get easy kills and grief lower level characters who don't have the finances to properly equip to stand against you all" out behind the wood shed for a good beating.</p><p>So, while I can understand where some of you are coming from, throw us newbs that don't have the plat, guild and higher level alts a frickin' bone.  We're here to have fun and pvp - not log in every night to play target practice for a bunch of bored, juvenile, sad, socially stunted reprobates.  Trust me...as soon as I can I'm getting out of this level bracket and never looking back.  The "welcome" to the Nagafen server from some of you twisted, slack-jawed troglodytes would have probably made most re-roll to a care bear server - but I'm here for real pvp, and if it takes leveling to T7 to play with the "real deal" and experience pvp with real pvpers...so be it.</p><p>Yo Psycho...Seattle here too!</p></blockquote><p>LOL you think T2 is bad wait till you hit T7 you aint never been ganked till you get ganked from a group of raided out 70's, and you though you died fast with 500 hp  wait and see how fast you die w/ 7 or 8k hitpoint turns out just as fast if not faster heh</p><p>only difference is when you get ganked as a newb your like "what the heck i didnt have a chance" then when your ganked as a vet you like "what the heck i still didnt have a chance"........... Only thing that seperates the tiers you learn how to survive better, by zoning/running/camping/calling 4 help/evaking/ect NOTHING else. </p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Why is this an argument?  It's fun... end of story.</p><p>Why do you care if some anonymous internet video game nerd calls your strategy cheap, ridiculous, and wrong?</p><p>Would be way cooler if you respond with a simple, "who cares you're right, eat it newb."</p>

[Bluu]

<cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While T7 PVP might be slightly more interesting (for you) if locking were not possible and everyone was funneled into KOS zones, a lot (if not most) people would grind to the end and just quit.  Some people enjoy a challenge.  Some people enjoy variety.  Some people enjoy having a chance.  From what I've seen (first hand, mind you), T7 PVP is cloud hopping around killing people in raids, or solo/small groups getting killed by raids.  It gets really tiresome.  I have far more places to hunt and a more skilled, capable and scary selection of targets T2-T5.  This is why I re-rolled (and locked) my 70's.</p></blockquote>Hmm good point. I've never looked at it that way.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Darkothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I can appreciate the sentiment in being bored at the top of the game.  Having come from WoW where I have 3 lvl 70 toons that I raided with and pvp'd with regularly...I left the game because I was bored.  I came over to EQII for some really good pvp, and instead am ganked constantly by locked, twink, de-leveled players.  There has got to be some way to accomodate those of you who are locked for understandable reasons while taking those players who are locked in "T2-T3 simply to get easy kills and grief lower level characters who don't have the finances to properly equip to stand against you all" out behind the wood shed for a good beating.</p><p>So, while I can understand where some of you are coming from, throw us newbs that don't have the plat, guild and higher level alts a frickin' bone.  We're here to have fun and pvp - not log in every night to play target practice for a bunch of bored, juvenile, sad, socially stunted reprobates.  Trust me...as soon as I can I'm getting out of this level bracket and never looking back.  The "welcome" to the Nagafen server from some of you twisted, slack-jawed troglodytes would have probably made most re-roll to a care bear server - but I'm here for real pvp, and if it takes leveling to T7 to play with the "real deal" and experience pvp with real pvpers...so be it.</p><p>Yo Psycho...Seattle here too!</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, level 10-13 pretty much suck (even for twinks), you are just target practice for the no-skill 14's camping the newby zones.  If you want to survive in the gank target "awkward" levels (10-13, 18-23, 26-33, 45-53, 56-69*(by far, worst levels in game)), best advice I can give is group up and level out of them fast.  </p><p>If you need a healer in CL or DL wood on Nagafen, hit me up.  Lately, I've been playing Syntzu (locked at 10, but now level 12) though I keep my anti-ganker 17 brigand camped nearby.  Another bit of advice, don't try to level up too fast.  EQ is an extremely rich game, and despite having like 5 end game toons, I'm still finding stuff I've never seen or done before every time I reroll.  The PVP server really is "hard-mode" (all be it, for a really easy game), so don't get too discouraged if you die a lot.  Remember, PVP titles don't really mean anything, and there is no death penalty, so just enjoy the short break it gives you.  Heck, most people I know kill themselves for travel purposes.  And, my "buff" skill would still be really low if I didn't have to rebuff every time I die...</p><p>Edit: about that "behind the woodshed" comment.  Every one can do this to the no-skill ganking 14's camping the nub zone(s).  It's called leveling to 17.  At 16-17, you pretty much can stomp any 14 regardless of gear/skill differential.  Only numbers matter at this point (even a small group of green twinks can beat a solo 17).  But if you catch that a-hole alone, payback is oh so sweet.</p>

[Darkothe]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why is this an argument?  It's fun... end of story.</p><p>Why do you care if some anonymous internet video game nerd calls your strategy cheap, ridiculous, and wrong?</p><p>Would be way cooler if you respond with a simple, "who cares you're right, eat it newb."</p></blockquote><p> Well, honestly, most of the responces that this post - and those of us who are curious as to the "fun" of ganking people who have no chance of standing against your all powerful twink-lockness - has spawned were a bit more educated and well thought out, rather than drivel like "who cares you're right, eat it newb.".  I believe the only thing that could have dropped that retort any further down the evolutionary chain of the english language would have been if you'd thrown in lollercopter or omgbbq for flavor.</p><p>Please understand that I've taken into consideration the number of well thought out arguements both for and against locking.  Yes, it does make a certain ammount of sense, and I will admit to that.  I've simply not heard a rational, well thought out responce to the points raised by people who question the skewed playing field some of these "who cares you're right, eat it newb" neophytes have created.  If you want an easy, quick gank fest...just wait a bit...Halo 3 will be out soon.  In the mean time, I guess it's just keep your head low and avoid the bands of rabid, sophmoric gank squads roaming the lands.</p>

[silentpsycho]

Lagebb@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Virii@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Or you could just lvl a character to 26-36 in less than a week and have a great time pvping.</blockquote><p>IMO they should get rid of instances make all raid zones contested and the only way you could lvl is by pvp alone</p></blockquote>Best idea(s) so far.  I'd add just this: Make all zones (not just raid) open for pvp/contested and give us the ability to really defeat foes (to bind point on PVP death w/o rez at least).

[CresentBlade]

<p>Lockers are not here to pvp there here to run down people on thier 200 to all resist horses decked out in all master crafted /fabled gear. They dont want to fight, they run from anything that might be a real fight. Only time they even stick around is if they out number you or max out level you other wise they just run.</p><p>Lockers are not here to enjoy pvp because you never fight anyone that can fight back and possibly win. You want to slaughter who your fighting and pat your self on the back afterwards.</p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The biggest defense and most used by lockers is that they got tired of getting raided and ganked by better geared players in Teir 6-7. </p></blockquote><p>You need glasses, or a class on the english language.</p><p>Count up the number of folks that replied in favor of locking, and then tell me how many folks said it was for this reason.</p><p>How you can read 13 pages of this thread and come up with that is beyond me.</p></blockquote>For as often as you post and are on this forum I find it rather sad that you would even ask. I can only guess I laid out the bare truth for you and you didnt like what ya read. Rough when someone spells it out for ya.

[Fonrian]

<p>Hmm...i skipped to the last page.  I'm sure it's all the same anywayz.  Soooo....how about we all play the game we're paying to play, and we play it however we want?  On my lvl 70, if I see a twinked lvl 26....I don't even turn my head, or notice him for that matter....he's lvl 26 after all.  On my lvl 24, if I see a lvl 70....same thing.  They're playing their game, I'm playing mine.  I'll /hug them nonetheless, but I'm not going to come post on the forums about how bad they suck because they like playing differently than me.  That's just meanzorz!  You needz /hugzorz!</p><p>/hugz</p>

[Qanil]

fonrian, you suck.  <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CresentBlade]

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Hmm...i skipped to the last page.  I'm sure it's all the same anywayz.  Soooo....how about we all play the game we're paying to play, and we play it however we want?  On my lvl 70, if I see a twinked lvl 26....I don't even turn my head, or notice him for that matter....he's lvl 26 after all.  On my lvl 24, if I see a lvl 70....same thing.  They're playing their game, I'm playing mine.  I'll /hug them nonetheless, but I'm not going to come post on the forums about how bad they suck because they like playing differently than me.  That's just meanzorz!  You needz /hugzorz!</p><p>/hugz</p></blockquote>Because there are some of that care about the game over all not just our own personal wants. Locking is way out of hand and was never intended for what it is being used for now. Some of us are paying to play a fun game that will last and grow over the years others are paying to destroy it.

[Fonrian]

How does a lvl 26 ruin the game for a lvl 70?  They never even cross paths.  I don't see it as game ruining.  I hardly see it as game affecting.

[CresentBlade]

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>How does a lvl 26 ruin the game for a lvl 70?  They never even cross paths.  I don't see it as game ruining.  I hardly see it as game affecting. </blockquote><p>It keeps new players from getting into pvp, they get mad and quit before they even have a chance to get into it. I dont know why your stuck on your own comment.</p><p>Pretty pointless to even add a expansion for pvp since it seems to end at 30 now. </p>

[Fonrian]

<p>I get stuck on genius tbh!</p>

[CresentBlade]

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I get stuck on genius tbh!</p></blockquote> lol

[MaNiaGG84]

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p> all i have to say : <img src="http://www.zerow.com/eyb_art/temp_gb/lvllock.jpg" border="0"></p><p>the full fabled t7 warden made me lol irl tbh. keep crying let it all go. but don´t drown in the ocean of tears...</p></blockquote><p>Thats me over there [Removed for Content]! Good 'ol times <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[CresentBlade]

<p>Lockers are just afraid that if they remove locking then all the pp they spent on super twinking would be wasted and then they would have to pvp people who could beat them. </p><p>To all the lockers that say you will leave if they remove locking...bye dont let the door hit you on the way out. With it removed we would get ALOT of new players that would come and replace you. So you really would not be missed, if anything your leaving would get alot of people to come try for the first time and would also get alot of people coming back that got tired of all the lockers in the first place.</p><p>So instead of threatening us with leaving how about make it a promise<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Fonrian]

What about the lockers that have lvl 70's, too?

[CresentBlade]

Splinter@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>What about the lockers that have lvl 70's, too?</blockquote> I guess you can stay<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MaNiaGG84]

Virii@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>All flames and attacks aside.  T7 would be so much better if most of the level lockers would unlock.  It's not hard to get the fabeled gear at 70.  You can get a fairly nice set of gear raiding 4 weeks or less with an active raiding guild.</p><p>I'm all for locking for specific reason, but to be able to PvP in a lower tier shouldn't be one of them IMO.</p><p>When it all comes down to it, its your choice wether you lock or not.  But, just think about how fun T7 could be with all lockers at 70</p></blockquote> Seen that, done this - raided for 2 yrs on a blue server as well as on a pvp server. Won't do it again - so no t7, sorry

[Qanil]

What about T8 in 6 months?

[HerbertWalker]

<cite>Darkothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why is this an argument?  It's fun... end of story.</p><p>Why do you care if some anonymous internet video game nerd calls your strategy cheap, ridiculous, and wrong?</p><p>Would be way cooler if you respond with a simple, "who cares you're right, eat it newb."</p></blockquote><p> Well, honestly, most of the responces that this post - and those of us who are curious as to the "fun" of ganking people who have no chance of standing against your all powerful twink-lockness - has spawned were a bit more educated and well thought out, rather than drivel like "who cares you're right, eat it newb.".  I believe the only thing that could have dropped that retort any further down the evolutionary chain of the english language would have been if you'd thrown in lollercopter or omgbbq for flavor.</p><p>Please understand that I've taken into consideration the number of well thought out arguements both for and against locking.  Yes, it does make a certain ammount of sense, and I will admit to that.  I've simply not heard a rational, well thought out responce to the points raised by people who question the skewed playing field some of these "who cares you're right, eat it newb" neophytes have created.  If you want an easy, quick gank fest...just wait a bit...Halo 3 will be out soon.  In the mean time, I guess it's just keep your head low and avoid the bands of rabid, sophmoric gank squads roaming the lands.</p></blockquote><p>Why does it take you guys 15 pages of a thread for you guys to "understand why it's fun?"  I actually don't believe you, and I think you know darn well it's fun to be powerful in the game.</p><p>I have a T4 locked uber twink wizard who solos red through green all day long.  What's not to get?</p><p>You know that it is fun to gank red cons, so give it up.  Quit playing dumb and ignorant.  You guys aren't fooling anyone.</p><p>You have a clear agenda, and that is to change the game in a way where I can no longer run around being an uber red/orange killing machine.</p><p>That's my fun.  That's my video game.</p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why is this an argument?  It's fun... end of story.</p><p>Why do you care if some anonymous internet video game nerd calls your strategy cheap, ridiculous, and wrong?</p><p>Would be way cooler if you respond with a simple, "who cares you're right, eat it newb."</p></blockquote><p> Well, honestly, most of the responces that this post - and those of us who are curious as to the "fun" of ganking people who have no chance of standing against your all powerful twink-lockness - has spawned were a bit more educated and well thought out, rather than drivel like "who cares you're right, eat it newb.".  I believe the only thing that could have dropped that retort any further down the evolutionary chain of the english language would have been if you'd thrown in lollercopter or omgbbq for flavor.</p><p>Please understand that I've taken into consideration the number of well thought out arguements both for and against locking.  Yes, it does make a certain ammount of sense, and I will admit to that.  I've simply not heard a rational, well thought out responce to the points raised by people who question the skewed playing field some of these "who cares you're right, eat it newb" neophytes have created.  If you want an easy, quick gank fest...just wait a bit...Halo 3 will be out soon.  In the mean time, I guess it's just keep your head low and avoid the bands of rabid, sophmoric gank squads roaming the lands.</p></blockquote><p>Why does it take you guys 15 pages of a thread for you guys to "understand why it's fun?"  I actually don't believe you, and I think you know darn well it's fun to be powerful in the game.</p><p>I have a T4 locked uber twink wizard who solos red through green all day long.  What's not to get?</p><p>You know that it is fun to gank red cons, so give it up.  Quit playing dumb and ignorant.  You guys aren't fooling anyone.</p></blockquote><p>Wow your right you just solved the whole debate. OMG I cant believe we all didnt see it sooner what were we thinking!</p><p><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Darkothe]

<p>I'm giving up.  I've said my piece, attempted to convey the frustration which the new players to pvp and to the server are facing at the hands of some of these people who are level locking.  Good or bad, I've tried to get a logical answer as to how imbalancing pvp at T2-T3 can be justified...and have not really recieved a decent answer.  /shrug  Oh well.</p><p>So, as Splinter - and many other have said - you play the game your way and I'll play the game mine.  Win or lose, at the end of the day it all comes down to whose paying to put the toon in the matrix and how they are going to conduct themselves online while we interact with each other.</p><p>So...group hug.  Let's not fight...err...no, wait...let's fight...what the heck.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>You still don't get it?</p><p>It's fun running around killing everyone, and especially fun to gank red cons.  It is joyous when you kill an orange con that jumped you.  It is exhillarating when you gank a yellow con who thought he was mr tough guy.  It is wonderful when you gank a white con who tried to run.  It can be a beautiful thing when you gank a blue con or two.  And finally, without a doubt one of the funniest things to do in game is AE a greenie bot group to death.</p><p>I don't know how else to put it.  I won't explain it again.</p><p>We all understand what locking in T2 does to the game.  First of all, I am a T4 twink, but regardless.  The betterment of the game is no concern of mine atm, and even a year down the road I am thinking I will have moved on.... so guess what?  I don't care about good karma as much as I care about my own enjoyment of the game while I am playing it.  Selfish?  So what.  This is a video game.  I only play it to have fun with it, not for some agenda to make the game awesome later when I am done playing it?  What do I care then?</p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Darkothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm giving up.  I've said my piece, attempted to convey the frustration which the new players to pvp and to the server are facing at the hands of some of these people who are level locking.  Good or bad, I've tried to get a logical answer as to how imbalancing pvp at T2-T3 can be justified...and have not really recieved a decent answer.  /shrug  Oh well.</p><p>So, as Splinter - and many other have said - you play the game your way and I'll play the game mine.  Win or lose, at the end of the day it all comes down to whose paying to put the toon in the matrix and how they are going to conduct themselves online while we interact with each other.</p><p>So...group hug.  Let's not fight...err...no, wait...let's fight...what the heck.</p></blockquote>Lockers cant listen to reason and cant mount any sort of compelling defense as you can see from all the weak posts. Sony just needs to make it so you gain exp pvping locked or not that would be one fix and everytime a guard from your own team kills you it makes you take a fation hit with your own town.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I'm a 'locker'.  I agree with you that T2 locking is not good for the game in the long run.</p><p>I just don't care.  Seriously, give me a reason I should care more about the betterment of the game, than for my own fun.  I will play a different game if this one can't deliver anymore.  Until then, I will have fun ganking freeps, using and abusing in-game mechanics all the way to the funny farm.</p>

[CresentBlade]

I would think after seeing all this someone from Sony would pop in and address this in some form or another. This is a issue that would be nice to have some Sony input on.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm a 'locker'.  I agree with you that T2 locking is not good for the game in the long run.</p><p>I just don't care.  Seriously, give me a reason I should care more about the betterment of the game, than for my own fun.  I will play a different game if this one can't deliver anymore.  Until then, I will have fun ganking freeps, using and abusing in-game mechanics all the way to the funny farm.</p></blockquote>The community is a big factor in how well a game does or how bad it does. People should care about the game they are paying to play and want to help it improve. Sadly your post is a prime example of how most lockers are viewing this and thats all the more reason for this to be addressed by Sony.

[silentpsycho]

CresentBlade wrote <blockquote>Lockers are not here to pvp there here to run down people on thier 200 to all resist horses decked out in all master crafted /fabled gear. They dont want to fight, they run from anything that might be a real fight. Only time they even stick around is if they out number you or max out level you other wise they just run. <p>Lockers are not here to enjoy pvp because you never fight anyone that can fight back and possibly win. You want to slaughter who your fighting and pat your self on the back afterwards.</p></blockquote><p>what you are describing are title hugging cowards, not level lockers.  Not everyone who is locked is a coward. </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lockers cant listen to reason and cant mount any sort of compelling defense as you can see from all the weak posts. Sony just needs to make it so you gain exp pvping locked or not that would be one fix and everytime a guard from your own team kills you it makes you take a fation hit with your own town. </blockquote><p> <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> don't blame us because you can't read.  There are plenty of good reason for it, none of which have to be justified to you.  You can go around passing judgement on our "defense" all you want, but it just comes down to you pretending to care about poor little noobies and in reality doing absolutely unequivically NOTHING to protect them.</p><p>Just keep going to the lvl 60-70 chat and go on and on about how level locking ruins the game and it's making everyone quit <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p><p>WHATEVER you do.. don't roll a toon and go help defend the newbie zones.  The last thing we want is for you to quit the game too... </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would think after seeing all this someone from Sony would pop in and address this in some form or another. This is a issue that would be nice to have some Sony input on.</blockquote><p> Don't think.. it hurts the team.</p><p>This has been a debate for as long as pvp has been out.  There's nothing new going on in this thread that hasn't been said a billion times over the last year.</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>The community is a big factor in how well a game does or how bad it does. People should care about the game they are paying to play and want to help it improve. Sadly your post is a prime example of how most lockers are viewing this and thats all the more reason for this to be addressed by Sony. </blockquote> How do you know it's a prime example?  Why do you keep making things up like that?  Oh.. wait, sorry.  I just realized that's what you've been doing this whole thread.. /pass the troll food..

[Bozidar]

<blockquote>CresentBlade wrote <blockquote>Lockers are not here to pvp there here to run down people on thier 200 to all resist horses decked out in all master crafted /fabled gear. They dont want to fight, they run from anything that might be a real fight. Only time they even stick around is if they out number you or max out level you other wise they just run. <p>Lockers are not here to enjoy pvp because you never fight anyone that can fight back and possibly win. You want to slaughter who your fighting and pat your self on the back afterwards.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>lol, a raid x2 was out in ant tonight.. they chased the one guy we had out there to the spot where we were zoning in.  We arrived.. and wiped them in about 30 seconds.  White, blues, yellows, and greens.  10 guys chasing 1... turned into a 10 v 6 bloodbath.  i took a screen shot of some of the chests (the ones that didn't run).. good times <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ther]

<p>I played on this server from day one to a few months in. I had to quit EQ for awhile but decided to come back after I managed to convince my WoW addicted roommate to switch to EQII.</p><p>Before the potential existed to twink and level lock in any meaningful way, rolling new characters on PvP was fun and exciting. Now, it's [Removed for Content] ridiculous. I managed to hook up a conj alt and my roommates pally with some respectable T2 gear, but we still get wasted by solo level lockers. He's just about ready to give up and go find another game because of the frustration. I hope the devs put a stop to this. I think they'll need to if they want to have any hope of attracting fresh blood to EQII for its PvP appeal.</p><p>We all know this game is far superior to WoW and other MMOs in so many ways, but try explaining that to a new player who, at times, can't go 10 minutes with out getting jumped by a twink and having zero chance of success. My main is only level 52, I don't have the kind of money to keep either one of our characters adequately equipped to handle players who likely outmatch heroic ^^^ mobs of the same level.</p><p>I wish these level lockers would stop, step back for a moment and realize they're not only ruining this game for new players in the short run, but destroying the future of their own servers.</p><p>I like the idea of PvP XP applying whether combat XP is disabled or not. Whatever the solution, something should be done. It's sad to see something that was once so good, ruined by blindly selfish players.</p>

[Armawk]

<p>Its fine now. </p><p>Alt-funding is a problem to me, level locking is now not. Im not level locked but I am slow levelling and I have no trouble being twinked enough to stay in the game.</p><p>BTW last night I got beaten up, died, never stood a chance but had fun. Mixed group of 4 seriously twinked 25-28 attacked me (1x 37 Templar) in antonica. At that point you know you are dead (running half way across antonica is so damned udniginified in plate armour), especially as they had a healer who knew what they were about, but I thought fine lets make a show of it at least..</p><p>It took AGES for them to take me down, and it wasnt like dull ages it was ding dong fireworks show with me battering a couple of them almost to death (damned healer, would have taken them otherwise <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) for over 5 minutes before I finally ran out of power, then several minutes more to actually get rid of me. I think they didnt expect to have to work that hard *grin*</p>

[Novusod]

Here is a well thought out reason why you can't just remove level locking: the only way to beat a twink is to make one yourself. Ganking would only get worse at least in the short term because of all the 1000s of twinks already in game would still be there. Only now the new player would have no way of fighting back. The new player would still get ganked dozens of times in T2 and T3 only to out level the greifers without ever getting to together enough resources for that sweet revenge teabag. In fact you will start seeing mass ganking of reds by greys because new players would be leveling too fast to properly equip themselves until the mid 30s. You are fooling yourself if you think these twinks would ever completely disappear. All it would do is become an ever more exclusive club of uber 1337s who no one could ever touch. You would have these legacy charactors who would come out of nowhere and suddenly pwn everything in god mode. Imagine two years after level locking were removed people selling their old and unplayed twinks for thousands of dollars to no talent brats so they can have a cheat mode god charactor. It would be different if locking never existed but it does so we have to learn to live with it. Most players are green lvl 10s and lvl 11s for an hour or two. Then they either lock and twink to join the club or level straight on through T2 in a few more hours. Those are the rules of PvP in the low tiers. On a side note I think new players actually have it pretty easy now dispite the large number of twinks. When I was a lowbie noob the pvp range was 8 levels so 10s were getting crushed by 18s and 14s didn't stand a chance against the hoards of 22s running about. This was before the nerfing of T2 content and leveling trough it was not trivial. It took a 2 weeks to get past T2 on my main and another 4 weeks to get past T3.

[CresentBlade]

<p>I guess my points really hit home with Bozidar, got you all frothing at the mouth.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And you know its right otherwise you would not be attacking me all personal like, which you are. Sorry you do not like having the flaws and facts pointed out, it really really bothers you I can now see. </p><p>As for sitting in the 60 chat channel, [Removed for Content] highest in the chat channel I have hit on nagafen is 40. I am sorry your so upset with so much light being shown on locking and not in a positive way.</p><p>The only one showing troll like actions at this point is you my friend and your doing a bang up job of it if I may say so.<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So keep on attacking me and others and keep on calling us trolls when in reality its not us but you.</p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is a well thought out reason why you can't just remove level locking: the only way to beat a twink is to make one yourself. Ganking would only get worse at least in the short term because of all the 1000s of twinks already in game would still be there. Only now the new player would have no way of fighting back. The new player would still get ganked dozens of times in T2 and T3 only to out level the greifers without ever getting to together enough resources for that sweet revenge teabag. In fact you will start seeing mass ganking of reds by greys because new players would be leveling too fast to properly equip themselves until the mid 30s. You are fooling yourself if you think these twinks would ever completely disappear. All it would do is become an ever more exclusive club of uber 1337s who no one could ever touch. You would have these legacy charactors who would come out of nowhere and suddenly pwn everything in god mode. Imagine two years after level locking were removed people selling their old and unplayed twinks for thousands of dollars to no talent brats so they can have a cheat mode god charactor. It would be different if locking never existed but it does so we have to learn to live with it. Most players are green lvl 10s and lvl 11s for an hour or two. Then they either lock and twink to join the club or level straight on through T2 in a few more hours. Those are the rules of PvP in the low tiers. On a side note I think new players actually have it pretty easy now dispite the large number of twinks. When I was a lowbie noob the pvp range was 8 levels so 10s were getting crushed by 18s and 14s didn't stand a chance against the hoards of 22s running about. This was before the nerfing of T2 content and leveling trough it was not trivial. It took a 2 weeks to get past T2 on my main and another 4 weeks to get past T3. </blockquote><p>Are you playin on Nagafen? I only see Vox showing for you. Not trying to be rude but Nagafen is a whole different type of pvp. Locking was not designed to be used like it is, and was never abused like it is now. In this game it was meant for people to wait up on others and be able to do quests and such with out dinging to fast. On pvp server this is being used in a totally different way, this is not being used the way it was intended and will have a fix to it soon. Players on pvp servers have a way of finding a loop hole in everything and ruining its use for everyone else.</p><p>If it was removed yes ther would be a short period while all the lockers would be in the same ranges but there is no way it would get any worse then it already is.</p><p>And by telling people that they can burn threw those levels is rather unfair. Why cant they enjoy those levels and experience the game? Why should new players have to lose gaming experience to a bunch of lockers who are to afraid to level up and fight people who can fight back? </p>

[deepruntramp]

Yawn. Locking and Pred/Rogue/Druid dominance will be fixed or the PvP game will die, plain and simple. It's gonna get REAL boring fighting only three archetypes, all of which are locked at level 14. Of course, Ruins of Kunark might bring in enough newbs to let these fuckwits get one last pwnage e-gasm before PvP collapses into a single, lonely server where the bots outnumber the players. It'd be nice to know if SoE intends to ever balance PvP. If it's just a sideshow that you had a handful of interns throw together in a desperate attempt to compete with World of Warcraft's feature list, I'd like to know so I can look into getting a refund.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yawn. Locking and Pred/Rogue/Druid dominance will be fixed or the PvP game will die, plain and simple. It's gonna get REAL boring fighting only three archetypes, all of which are locked at level 14. Of course, Ruins of Kunark might bring in enough newbs to let these [I cannot control my vocabulary] get one last pwnage e-gasm before PvP collapses into a single, lonely server where the bots outnumber the players. It'd be nice to know if SoE intends to ever balance PvP. If it's just a sideshow that you had a handful of interns throw together in a desperate attempt to compete with World of Warcraft's feature list, I'd like to know so I can look into getting a refund.</blockquote>/nod

[MadTexan3]

CresentBlade wrote: <blockquote>And by telling people that they can burn threw those levels is rather unfair. Why cant they enjoy those levels and experience the game? Why should new players have to lose gaming experience to a bunch of lockers who are to afraid to level up and fight people who can fight back? </blockquote><p><i>Telling people they can burn through early T7 is rather unfair. Why can't they enjoy those levels and experience the game? Why should players have to lose gaming experience to a bunch of players who are at the cap, are in raid gear and intentionally seek out weak green targets who can't really fight back?</i></p><p>You see what I did there?</p><p>If you weren't so rabid you'd see that effectively there's little difference between locked PVP in T2-3 and that in T7. In both cases the ones who got there first have the advantage and there will always be a portion of the player base that seeks out the weakest targets they can for the maximum gain.</p>

[deepruntramp]

Aelestar@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>CresentBlade wrote: <blockquote>And by telling people that they can burn threw those levels is rather unfair. Why cant they enjoy those levels and experience the game? Why should new players have to lose gaming experience to a bunch of lockers who are to afraid to level up and fight people who can fight back? </blockquote><p><i>Telling people they can burn through early T7 is rather unfair. Why can't they enjoy those levels and experience the game? Why should players have to lose gaming experience to a bunch of players who are at the cap, are in raid gear and intentionally seek out weak green targets who can't really fight back?</i></p><p>You see what I did there?</p><p>If you weren't so rabid you'd see that effectively there's little difference between locked PVP in T2-3 and that in T7. In both cases the ones who got there first have the advantage and there will always be a portion of the player base that seeks out the weakest targets they can for the maximum gain.</p></blockquote> That's a separate (though related) issue:  Gear's influence in PvP.  Though the twinkers/raiders will cry their eyes out in protest, fact of the matter is, gear matters WAY too much in PvP at the moment. SHOULD it matter?  Of course.  Should it matter to the extent that it does currently?  Absolutely not.

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>OK ill post one last time on this thread. </p><p>The difference in t7 which seems to be the popular example of the level locked people is. </p><p>1) Player characters are fully formed, they have all of their abilities at their disposal.</p><p>2) Have had simailar time to play their class and learn to be skilled with it. </p><p>3) The diminishing return curve ensures that the difference in stats due to fabled or raid gear has less of an impact that in the lower tiers </p><p> where the curve doesnt apply. Having 80 more wisdom or str at lvl 70 is nothing compaired to having 40 more strength at lvl 14 or 22.</p><p>4)For the most part have enough faction to buy from city merchants , evac items , signets , etc.</p><p>5)Have enough cash to buy mounts , to compensate for low movement speeds.</p><p>6) Have had 60 levels to aquire items , build up resists , make friends to groups with , found a guild to help them.</p><p>7) To improve a character at hs level requires effort. If you have a small group of friends instances are a good place to get set gear and finish AA trees. If you are  a solo style player or only have a friend or 2 you like to play with , PvP gear offers a great way to have superior gear. But reauires alot of time spent PvP , even if half of the kill you go for are bots. you are a target while hunting them. To go for the best gear available to you , raiding will be the way to go. It will require dedication to a guild , a willingness to learn you class to its fullest potential . and weeks of effort. At which time you an get the best gear in the game .. if you are lucky with the drops.</p><p>Much of the above is lacking to the new players. </p><p>They dont have instances to hide in. Friends to help them , guilds to assist them when they are being griefed. </p><p>They are new to the game and are still evaluating if PvP is someting they enjoy. Some are evaluating if Everquest is a game they like. </p><p>Being repeatedly beaten down in fights they stand no chance of winning, or being unable to complete quests in open areas , is discouraging </p><p>and frustrating to the new player.  Its easy for the player who has been in gave for months to know the paths to improvement, not so easy for the new player.  </p><p>I dont think lt helps the game as a whole to have the no exp option in PvP. </p><p>It wouls still be possible to enjoy all of the quests if turning off exp only applied to questing and mobs. </p><p>You could still twink a character. But if PvP kill always gave exp then, after you have your fun ganking 200 or so players .. you would be moving toward the the next tier , and it you would start being the tergets of twinked players in that tier. There would be a steady wave of players moving thru the tiers.   </p><p>  </p>

[Bi]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think it discourages new players , and turns the lower tiers into a joke. Makes the game and quest content at those levels trivial , and lessens the game expierience for  anyone who wants to try it out.  </p></blockquote><p> I've got a guildie who's trying pvp for the first time, he's a pve player.  He's playing a coercer.  Does he have problems in pvp?  Sure, soloing's a [Removed for Content].  Is he going to quit and get discouraged or roll out a warden or a brigand?  No.</p></blockquote> gotta say that if i was a new player, rather than an experienced pve player I would be much more discouraged. I came to pvp knowing that a chanter would be hard, and that rogues and druids dominated pvp (granted I was about to experience exactly HOW hard chanters were) I think if i wasnt in a good guild who knew and appreciated what i bring to a group  -  and also grouped with me regularly, i would have probably rerolled  a brig/druid. personally i have no intention of rerolling, but i can definitely see why people get frustrated cos they cant find decent groups, and either have to powerlevel out of their tier because they just are no contest for the overpowered classes there.

[Bozidar]

<cite>ProfessorUtopia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I played on this server from day one to a few months in. I had to quit EQ for awhile but decided to come back after I managed to convince my WoW addicted roommate to switch to EQII.</p><p>Before the potential existed to twink and level lock in any meaningful way, rolling new characters on PvP was fun and exciting. Now, it's [Removed for Content] ridiculous. I managed to hook up a conj alt and my roommates pally with some respectable T2 gear, but we still get wasted by solo level lockers. He's just about ready to give up and go find another game because of the frustration. I hope the devs put a stop to this. I think they'll need to if they want to have any hope of attracting fresh blood to EQII for its PvP appeal.</p><p>We all know this game is far superior to WoW and other MMOs in so many ways, but try explaining that to a new player who, at times, can't go 10 minutes with out getting jumped by a twink and having zero chance of success. My main is only level 52, I don't have the kind of money to keep either one of our characters adequately equipped to handle players who likely outmatch heroic ^^^ mobs of the same level.</p><p>I wish these level lockers would stop, step back for a moment and realize they're not only ruining this game for new players in the short run, but destroying the future of their own servers.</p><p>I like the idea of PvP XP applying whether combat XP is disabled or not. Whatever the solution, something should be done. It's sad to see something that was once so good, ruined by blindly selfish players.</p></blockquote>transfer to vox.  if you don't want high volume pvp, it's a good place to go..  If you and your roomie are going to duo, you might want to consider a better combonation than pally/conj.  I'm seriously trying to help here, you guys have made some fairly bad decisions (based on information provided) for being successful in pvp and introducing a new player to the game.

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess my points really hit home with Bozidar, got you all frothing at the mouth.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And you know its right otherwise you would not be attacking me all personal like, which you are. Sorry you do not like having the flaws and facts pointed out, it really really bothers you I can now see. </p><p>As for sitting in the 60 chat channel, [Removed for Content] highest in the chat channel I have hit on nagafen is 40. I am sorry your so upset with so much light being shown on locking and not in a positive way.</p><p>The only one showing troll like actions at this point is you my friend and your doing a bang up job of it if I may say so.<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So keep on attacking me and others and keep on calling us trolls when in reality its not us but you.</p></blockquote> i'm not attacking you personally, i'm sharing a frank and honest opinion with you.  I really think you have a communication problem when it comes to internet forums.  You really think you're making some kind of point, when alls you're doing is baiting with absolutely no sense behind it.  Gah.. at lease Wreakin (the biggest troll this side of Al Gore) made SENSE when he was trolling, he would say things that actually applied!

[Bozidar]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And by telling people that they can burn threw those levels is rather unfair. Why cant they enjoy those levels and experience the game? Why should new players have to lose gaming experience to a bunch of lockers who are to afraid to level up and fight people who can fight back? </p></blockquote><p> It's very simple.  This is a <span style="color: #990000"><i>red</i> </span>server.  There is <i>pvp </i>here.  If you want to play on this server, you have to <i>try</i>.  If you want to go be a casual player and enjoy the T2/T3/T4/T5/T6/T7 content, then you should go play on a <span style="color: #0000ff"><i>blue</i> </span>server.  A low population pvp server might work as well.</p><p>PvP is twinking.  It's twinking from lvl 10 all the way until lvl 70.  Sorry.. the carebears all left, alls we have left are players who like to fight, and like to win.</p><p>As for afraid to level up and fight people... LOL.  You really just don't get why people lock, do you?  my team of lvl 20 guys killed a 43 last night who used to steal nodes from me when i was putting in my hours and hours of harvesting to build supplies in order to build my toons.  It was nice to repay him <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>The lower your level, the more opponents you have to attack -- fact.</p>

[Bi]

to clarify my point though - that is all LEVEL related, nothing to do with twinking a character or not. coercers get no runspeed, no mitigation, no hp, and no real crowd control, nor dps <16, no invis until 15, so pretty much open to be jumped by anyone and anything 10-14.. twinks certainly make the game harder, but imo its not difficult to put yourself in the same ballpark easily, and skill is still skill, regardless of tier. as for t7 raiding being balanced.. I resist resist enough at 15, can only imagine what it's like at 70

[Bozidar]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yawn. Locking and Pred/Rogue/Druid dominance will be fixed or the PvP game will die, plain and simple. It's gonna get REAL boring fighting only three archetypes, all of which are locked at level 14. Of course, Ruins of Kunark might bring in enough newbs to let these [I cannot control my vocabulary] get one last pwnage e-gasm before PvP collapses into a single, lonely server where the bots outnumber the players. It'd be nice to know if SoE intends to ever balance PvP. If it's just a sideshow that you had a handful of interns throw together in a desperate attempt to compete with World of Warcraft's feature list, I'd like to know so I can look into getting a refund.</blockquote><p>If you set aside the raid progression of end-game, pvp is balanced.</p><p>And if you think preds dominate in T2 (in other than running away) then you don't know diddly.  Every class in every tier of the game has the chance to be a dominant fighter that scares the teeth out of his or her opponents.  You just have to <i>*gasp*</i> play them right.</p><p>And i'll ask the question again, since no one answered last time:</p><p>Looking at the server list, do you not see what servers have the highest load the most often?</p><p>this doom and gloom stuff is so seriously out of control.. </p>