Temple of Scale - 4 Hours of nothing

[Lordlars]

<div>ok 24 ppl spent a nice long 4 hours in Temple of Scale last night clearing every x2, x3, x4 mob we could find.    Hmmm   seems that was all we could find.    No Named mobs in whole frigging zone.   Also not one chest with anything over vendor trash.</div><div> </div><div>Nice   very nice     this isn't helping me keep my interested in this game</div>

[Ratty31]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Lordlars wrote:<div>ok 24 ppl spent a nice long 4 hours in Temple of Scale last night clearing every x2, x3, x4 mob we could find.   Hmmm   seems that was all we could find.    No Named mobs in whole frigging zone.  </div><hr></blockquote>Looks like another guild found them first <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Ratty31 on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:20 AM</span></p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ratty31 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Lordlars wrote:<div>ok 24 ppl spent a nice long 4 hours in Temple of Scale last night clearing every x2, x3, x4 mob we could find.   Hmmm   seems that was all we could find.    No Named mobs in whole frigging zone.  </div><hr></blockquote>Looks like another guild found them first <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Ratty31 on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:20 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Read : It's a contested raid zone. Obviously you lost. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CoLD MeTaL]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lordlars wrote:<div>ok 24 ppl spent a nice long 4 hours in Temple of Scale last night clearing every x2, x3, x4 mob we could find.    Hmmm   seems that was all we could find.    No Named mobs in whole frigging zone.   Also not one chest with anything over vendor trash.</div><div> </div><div>Nice   very nice     this isn't helping me keep my interested in this game</div><hr></blockquote>Did you have fun clearing the zone so other people could get loot?  That is my favorite EQ2 pasttime.

[Lordlars]

<div>we were the only groups in there the entire time (except for a few ppl here and there wandering in)...i checked zone population about every half hour.    I understand its a contested zone.....but geez is nots like anybody is just gonna throw a couple of groups together and go checking the place out to see whats around.....have to fight thru every room and hallway to get anywhere.    4 hours in zone and a whopping nothing</div><div> </div>

[FlintAH]

There is a long respawn time on the named.  The trash has like a 20 min respawn.  Should use track before you go in.  If none of the heroics or x2 are up then it is not likely that there are any x4s are up.<div></div>

[Tamat]

Contested raid dungeons <b>FOR THE WIN</b> by the way<div></div>

[syous01]

*Offers Lordlars a lollipop*<div></div>

[ke'la]

<div></div>If you go into SoS or PoA and find no Named up do you assume that there are no Names in the Entire Zone or do you start looking for places that they will likly spawn and/or PHs.  ToS is just like any other NORMAL dungon in the game only it requires a Raid to fight though it and camp Nameds. If it was the Lab or another INSTANCED Raid zone this would be Differant, but its not it is just a Dungon with super hard content. Personally I like the Idea of Normal Dungon Raid zones it gives people something to Raid when locked out of instances.

[Jonaroth]

yea I'm with the reader here, I mean I've been in the zone a few times, sometimes you get a whole bunch of named (all wich drop total crap) and other times there is like nothing... 4 hours of nothing really sucks.. instead of 4 hour spawns or whatever it is, it should be forced spawns, like doin ring events over and over has a chance of spawning the named.. that way everyone has a chance...<div></div>

[Gimmiso]

<div></div><div></div>there's plenty of named "sub-boss" mobs in the zone and a good share of some really cool Bosses..... but like the others have said, These mobs are not spawned by killing the trash and they are timed respawns, so depending on which mob you are looking for, you would have to wait anywhere from 1 to 6 days to find them if someone else beat ya to em..... yep, it's a contested raid zone all right, and I LOVE IT!  Sorry that your group was on the short end of the stick.... but my advioce to you is do not waste your time clearing trash mobs in there..... they don't lead you to anything good<span>:smileyvery-happy:____________________________________________ ___________________________________________</span>Jonorath wrote:like doin ring events over and over has a chance of spawning the named.. that way everyone has a chance..._________________________________________ ______________________________________________Ther e's other zones for that....if you want mobs that can be spawned by your actions then ToS isn't the place for you. If you don't like not being able to get the raid mobs,well............... /shrug,  welcome to contested KoS.<div></div><p>Edited for Typo<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Gimmisome on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:15 AM</span></p>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><div>Yeah, this dungeon was clearly designed by a Dev that doesn't know much about population control, guild raiding, or what EQ2 has already learned about contested content.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> The respawn time on this zone isn't a variable like it should be, this was already learned by Devs previously before the first expansion came out.  You have to put contested content on a variable respawn time or else it can be monopolized, just the basic ABC's of contested content.....welcome to last year.</div><div> </div><div>The other failure is you increased contested content for KoS, but decreased Instance content....when compared to what DoF had.   Not a smart trade-off at all when you have increased server populations.   If anything, you should of increased both instanced and contested content....this would of been smart.  But clearly we see a problem with realzing population concerns and the value of instancing, as we saw a launch with the sanctum of scaleborn problems.</div><p>Message Edited by Blast2hell on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:17 PM</span></p>

[Gimmiso]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Blast2hell wrote: <div>The other failure is you increased contested content for KoS, but decreased Instance content....when compared to what DoF had.   Not a smart trade-off at all when you have increased server populations.   If anything, you should of increased both instanced and contested content....this would of been smart.  But clearly we see a problem with realzing population concerns and the value of instancing, as we sat a launch with the sanctum of scaleborn problems.</div><hr></blockquote>ok, last thing I will say on the subject....   There is plenty of "Instanced" Raid content  in this expansion, probably as much as there  is  contested.... you just have to figure out how to get there  <span>:smileywink:</span></span></div>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Gimmisome wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Blast2hell wrote: <div>The other failure is you increased contested content for KoS, but decreased Instance content....when compared to what DoF had.   Not a smart trade-off at all when you have increased server populations.   If anything, you should of increased both instanced and contested content....this would of been smart.  But clearly we see a problem with realzing population concerns and the value of instancing, as we sat a launch with the sanctum of scaleborn problems.</div><hr></blockquote>ok, last thing I will say on the subject....   There is plenty of "Instanced" Raid content  in this expansion, probably as much as there  is  contested.... you just have to figure out how to get there  <span>:smileywink:</span></span></div><hr></blockquote><p>Your missing the point, at DoF, time of launch, two full size instanced raid zones that could be accessed with no quests.</p><p>KoS at time of launch has one full size intstanced raid zone that can be access with no quests.   This is where they cut content in half, this is all I'm implying. </p><p> </p><p> I'm not implying that there isn't other raid content that gets accessed via quest such as PPR did in DoF.</p><p>Message Edited by Blast2hell on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:21 PM</span></p>

[Gimmiso]

ok, I didn't miss the point, but fine.... Is SOE Not adding 2 new raid zones in an upcoming Live Update? I think they are well aware that alot of people do not like having to compete for Raid mobs, it's the same old  story again and again. Guild A beats Guild B to contested, thereby control the respawn timer and knowng when to go back, and Guild B never gets the mob, so they complain that it's not fair and everything should be instanced.  I am not implying that you are saying this, just a generalization, so don't take it the wrong way.....so anyway, if you really want to get a shot at the contesteds you should do what some other "Guild B's" do..... find Guild A and follow them everywhere they go. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<div>I see this zone simply as somewhere they put in to keep Harla Dar.  It's like they wanted her to take some clearing to get to, and if she was in Sanctum you could just train to her.  So they put in a zone full of epic trash with a sprinkling of nameds to make getting to her slightly more challenging.</div>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gimmisome wrote:ok, I didn't miss the point, but fine.... Is SOE Not adding 2 new raid zones in an upcoming Live Update? I think they are well aware that alot of people do not like having to compete for Raid mobs, it's the same old  story again and again. Guild A beats Guild B to contested, thereby control the respawn timer and knowng when to go back, and Guild B never gets the mob, so they complain that it's not fair and everything should be instanced.  I am not implying that you are saying this, just a generalization, so don't take it the wrong way.....so anyway, if you really want to get a shot at the contesteds you should do what some other "Guild B's" do..... find Guild A and follow them everywhere they go. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>personally I like the contested, and think it's good.  Just missing a couple features to keep guilds from easily monoplizing it, such as variable respawn timers, or possible 30 hour lockouts or something.   If ya lock one guild out for a day, the other 8 guilds still have to fight for it, but it keeps 1 guild from easily winning all the time just because there based in a timezone that helps them out.....</p><p>So I think the amount of contested content is great, just not at the cost of instance content, people clearly want contested content,  I just want smart contested content....as smart as what was in game before KoS, if not better.</p><p>....and you first sentence you imply that SoE is adding 2 new raid zones?  I've missed this commentary somewhere, if you could help out with a Link or something so i can read this and then do 4 or 5 cartwheel in my cubicle...it would be great.</p>

[Gimmiso]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Blast2hell wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr><span></span><div></div>such as variable respawn timers....and you first sentence you imply that SoE is adding 2 new raid zones?  I've missed this commentary somewhere, if you could help out with a Link or something so i can read this and then do 4 or 5 cartwheel in my cubicle...it would be great<hr>OH, did I forget to mention that the bosses of ToS are on variable timers..... cause, yeah, they are, when I said 1-6 days. I meant each mob.... Some of them have been seen anywhere from every 2-5 days. It's not a set spawn time.I will see what I can find about the new zones, but I do remember hearing about them, just not sure when they are going to be added..... but I do think that SOE has heard the complaints and taken corrective action (well on this topic at least <span>:smileysad:</span>)</blockquote></blockquote></span></div>

[Schmoogles]

<div>This zone should not have a timer as its a contested raid zone.  I love this idea, its a great idea.  I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll.  The best thing is that these dragons are not on any set timers like past contested mobs have been like Jenn has said.  This zone is also a good stepping stone for newbie raid guild to go in there and farm some x 2 mobs that drops master chests. </div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div>.... I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll....<hr></div></blockquote>Cockblocks ftw! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CoLD MeTaL]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div>...  I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll.  ...<hr></div></blockquote><p>That is what is wrong with this game.</p><p> </p>

[Gimmiso]

<span><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div>...  I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll.  ...<hr></div></blockquote><p>That is what is wrong with this game.</p><hr></blockquote>what is it they say........  "if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch".  oh, and,  "if ya can't beat em. join em"this game is allllllll about competition. If you don't like competition, then I'd suggest you stick to quests.</span><div></div>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<blockquote><hr>Gimmisome wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div>...  I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll.  ...<hr></div></blockquote><p>That is what is wrong with this game.</p><hr></blockquote>what is it they say........  "if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch".  oh, and,  "if ya can't beat em. join em"this game is allllllll about competition. If you don't like competition, then I'd suggest you stick to quests.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't play on PvP servers.

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<blockquote><hr>Gimmisome wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div>...  I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll.  ...<hr></div></blockquote><p>That is what is wrong with this game.</p><hr></blockquote>what is it they say........  "if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch".  oh, and,  "if ya can't beat em. join em"this game is allllllll about competition. If you don't like competition, then I'd suggest you stick to quests.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't play on PvP servers.<hr></blockquote>Either do we !! I'm just saying as far as raid guilds goes it can be fun to prevent someone to entering deathtoll.  Right now no one on our server has deathtoll acess so its no big deal !!

[Gertack_v2]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div></div>Either do we !! I'm just saying as far as raid guilds goes it can be fun to prevent someone to entering deathtoll.  Right now no one on our server has deathtoll acess so its no big deal !!<hr></blockquote>Preventing someone from gaining access to a contested zone would be cool.  Preventing someone from being able to enter an instance is just being an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</span></div>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div></div>Either do we !! I'm just saying as far as raid guilds goes it can be fun to prevent someone to entering deathtoll.  Right now no one on our server has deathtoll acess so its no big deal !!<hr></blockquote><p>So you get your jollies from preventing people from achieving their goals?</p><p>Instead of helping one another fulfill goals greater than any one person can do alone.</p><p>I stand by my previous statement.</p><p> </p>

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<p>So you get your jollies from preventing people from achieving their goals?</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>lol

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gertack wrote:<span><div>Preventing someone from gaining access to a contested zone would be cool.  Preventing someone from being able to enter an instance is just being an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</span></div><hr></blockquote>lol I'm just saying it could happen.  Some of the mobs that you need to enter deathtoll are contested mobs that drop some pretty nice loot. 

[rek6779]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<div></div><p>So you get your jollies from preventing people from achieving their goals?</p><p>Instead of helping one another fulfill goals greater than any one person can do alone.</p><p></p><hr><p>I'm always confused by statements like this. If they can take down the dragon, all 24 of them alone - achieving their own goals, they should go help the less fortunate achieve there's when done? Are we playing EQ2 or some bad game of help the less able? If I wanted to give to charity, I'd donate to the Red Cross, however, I play to kill things and have fun. I kill the beggars in Maj'Dul to, does that make me a bad person?</p><p>Beyond that, the stuff that drops from the dragons is nice. Killing it for drops is wrong now? How many named mob have you killed for the "chance at a master" when you know it's a quest mob? Countless, I'm sure.</p></blockquote>

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div></div>Either do we !! I'm just saying as far as raid guilds goes it can be fun to prevent someone to entering deathtoll. Right now no one on our server has deathtoll acess so its no big deal !!<hr></blockquote><p>So you get your jollies from preventing people from achieving their goals?</p><p>Instead of helping one another fulfill goals greater than any one person can do alone.</p><p>I stand by my previous statement.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>It should also be noted that intentionally monopolizing game resources is against the TOS. What is the point in actively preventing another guild from achieving something? If that somehow makes someone feel more 'uber', well, that's just sad. It would be like the person that wins American Idol going to the auditions the next year and welding everyone's hotel doors shut so no one can audition, ensuring they are the only 'winner'.

[Ishbu]

<div>I swear, everytime someone loses a contested to someone else they whine. </div><div> </div><div>OMG you mean there are zones with raids mobs that are contested instead of just zoning into your own solo player instance?  Whatever will we do!  Get over it, invest some time/guild resources into getting these mobs if thats your priority, if its not, then quit complaining.</div>

[Thug]

<div></div><p>might as well call them congested zones. gonna be interesting to see what zone populations we can get when every guilds lab timer is up and they all zone into ascent or temple.</p><p> </p><p>if you casual guilds are bored with no instance raid content T7, gather together and follow the uber raiding guilds around to whatever contested zone they're in. fun for all!!</p>

[Edward Longshank]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:<div>I swear, everytime someone loses a contested to someone else they whine. </div><div> </div><div>OMG you mean there are zones with raids mobs that are contested instead of just zoning into your own solo player instance?  Whatever will we do!  Get over it, invest some time/guild resources into getting these mobs if thats your priority, if its not, then quit complaining.</div><hr></blockquote>/agree

[Zoren Northwood]

<div></div><div><em><img height="1" width="1" border="0" alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif"></em><div><em>I swear, everytime someone loses a contested to someone else they whine. </em></div><div><em></em> </div><div><em>OMG you mean there are zones with raids mobs that are contested instead of just zoning into your own solo player instance?  Whatever will we do!  Get over it, invest some time/guild resources into getting these mobs if thats your priority, if its not, then quit complaining.</em></div><div><em></em> </div><div>I don't have a problem with anyone getting any contested I can't get, but having contested raid mobs tied to instance access quests is a horrible idea.  There are many groups of players out there who could likely take Deathtoll (or at least some of Deathtoll), but they won't get the chance for a long long time because there are contested raid mobs required for access.  The ability (or desire) to get a group of 24 together at a scheduled time to do an instance is a very different thing than the ability (or desire) to get a group of 24 together at any time of any day to take a contested raid mob down.  The two things should be completely separate in the game -- contested should be for loot ONLY, while access quests should be completable by anyone who can take down the mob.  There is no reason for contested raid mobs to be barriers to additional content.</div><div> </div><div>That's why Barakah and Siyamak exist in their Maj'Dul forms, remember.  I'm not sure why SOE hasn't done a similar thing here.  (For all I know, maybe they have -- maybe Harla Dar will be inside Halls of Seeing, and Ascent will be instanced after the changes.)</div></div>

[Pouncer74]

<div>For a time eq2 was trying to fix all the mistakes of eq1 and be a new and better game.  That time has ended.  One of the biggest mistakes eq1 made was creating contested mobs required for progression through content.  This began with Scars of Vellious.  You needed to kill several dragons for keys to access sleepers tomb.  All of these dragons were contested....and I think its safe to say that on every server, the top guild would <a href="mailto:#*@#block" target="_blank">#*@#block</a> the other guilds to prevent them from entering sleepers tomb.  This was to ensure a monopoly for the top guild in that zone.</div><div> </div><div>Contested Raid mobs exist to maintain the status quo of the top guild on each server for the following reasons:</div><div> </div><div>1) The guild who logs on earliest usually wins. </div><div> </div><div>If a server base mostly plays in US times after work.  The guild who can raid before most people come home from work will get most of the contested mobs.  If a mob can spawn anytime in a 24 hour day, an east coast raiding guild would raid from 7  pm est to 1 or 2 am est. This leaves anywhere from 2 am to 6 pm for the contested mob to spawn and be taken by any guilds who raid earlier the next day.</div><div> </div><div>2) The guild who kills the named first has the advantage because they no longer need to learn the strategy. </div><div> </div><div>If a secondary guild ever sees the contested mob up they have to race to it and attack it with almost or no set up time.  The odds are with it that they will fail their first attempt.  After that failure the top guild who already learned the strategy will kindly walk over the failed raid team and quickly kill the named.  This is easy because when they learned the contested, they had as many tries as they needed to learn the strategy.  All other guilds will never see this advantage....thus the entire expansion has been decided in the first few weeks of the game.</div><div> </div><div>3) If a raid mob is needed for progressions in the game, the top guild will keep it killed always, good loot or no good loot. </div><div> </div><div>This prevents any other guilds from progressing and also makes it so they will never be able to make contested mobs any form of contest.  This is in their own self interest and almost any group would do this if the game mechanics allow.  By hobbling your opponent you become a stronger runner.</div><div> </div><div>In my oppinion as an eq1 player since the first week of release and an eq2 player from the first day of release, contested mobs are fine for loot.  I highly encourage the fun of chasing after the rare dragon to find its loot.  Like nagafen and vox were in eq1 or like terrorantula is in dof.  Terrorantula has some great stuff, but nothing I'd cry on my pillow over since it was not NEEDED to enjoy the game fully by most players. </div><div> </div><div>Preventing people from comleting content or seeing zones due to contested mobs is not the way to go.  It will cause anger/frustration between players and towards the game itself.  The whole creation of instancing was to remove this problem.  I agree that instancing does lower social interaction between guilds and individual players BUT this is not the kind of interation we will want.  There are very few times you will see pleasant competition when 1 group is being <a href="mailto:#@#blocked" target="_blank">#@#blocked</a> from content.  Rather, you will see open flames, hate tells, and overall sad displays of human emotion.  Please rethink this current system.  Thank you</div><div> </div><div>Krutt Fuzzybottom</div><div>70 Bruiser</div><div>Blackburrow</div>

[Ellrin]

<div></div><p>^^^^^^^^</p><p>Very well said.</p>

[Feltrak]

<div>I'd like to see a post from some guilds that SUPPORT having most all of the raiding content in contested raid zones, that aren't currently monopolizing their server for these zones <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I see alot of you are posting about how much you love this, and how great it is to compete for it, but I'd bet the reason you support it is because you have very little competition, and you're already getting 75% of it.</div><div> </div><div>I think about the Blackburrow server, and we have about 8 guilds that are capable of killing Harla Dar. Does that mean all 8 will be able to? No. There's one guild that will probably get 90% of the Harla spawns. I'm not complaining, I play the game the way it is. I just wish that you folks that are in the top guild on your server realize that you're the only ones who really support this.</div><div> </div><div>Also, don't bring up promised content from SOE being a means to resolve this problem. We all know how that ends up.</div><div> </div><div>KoS was delivered, incomplete. What a novel idea. I just hope that this is the last time they release incomplete content, and that our next expansion's release is pushed back a month, so that they can actually finish it. I don't think anyone will complain. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>Feltrak wrote:<div>I'd like to see a post from some guilds that SUPPORT having most all of the raiding content in contested raid zones, that aren't currently monopolizing their server for these zones <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I see alot of you are posting about how much you love this, and how great it is to compete for it, but I'd bet the reason you support it is because you have very little competition, and you're already getting 75% of it.</div><div> </div><div>I think about the Blackburrow server, and we have about 8 guilds that are capable of killing Harla Dar. Does that mean all 8 will be able to? No. There's one guild that will probably get 90% of the Harla spawns. I'm not complaining, I play the game the way it is. I just wish that you folks that are in the top guild on your server realize that you're the only ones who really support this.</div><div> </div><div>Also, don't bring up promised content from SOE being a means to resolve this problem. We all know how that ends up.</div><div> </div><div>KoS was delivered, incomplete. What a novel idea. I just hope that this is the last time they release incomplete content, and that our next expansion's release is pushed back a month, so that they can actually finish it. I don't think anyone will complain. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe this is obvious but if your capable of killing Harla Dar, DO IT!  Dont complain that some other guild will get it 90% of the time.  Either you are capable of mobilizing and killing the mob when it is up or you are not and that in itself is a challenge the game brings and thus the reason why many people enjoy contested content.</p><p>When I lose a mob it makes me driven to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure I get it the next time and I get everything else possible over the person that got it over me.  All I see here is complaining that someone else got it instead of action to stop it from happening again.</p><p>BTW - Lol at that harla dar/patrilla video.  Not going to say thats really an exploit but pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] funny and/or lame thats how they want to pull them.</p>

[Zoren Northwood]

<p><em>Maybe this is obvious but if your capable of killing Harla Dar, DO IT!  Dont complain that some other guild will get it 90% of the time.  Either you are capable of mobilizing and killing the mob when it is up or you are not and that in itself is a challenge the game brings and thus the reason why many people enjoy contested content.</em></p><p>And I'd agree with that COMPLETELY if that content wasn't a barrier to further content my guildmates and I would not need to "mobilize" for.  Those two types of gameplay shouldn't be lumped together.</p>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><div></div><p>this contested content isn't even about if you can kill it,  for most competent guilds it's just about who gets there first.    If there was as much non contested content in KoS as there was in DoF at launch, it probably wouldn't be that big a deal, but sadly...that's not the case.    And whoever the @$$hat was that put contested content as a requirement to get to other content should wake up and smell the server populations.</p><p>At least in DoF, to get to PPR you had to kill spawnable mobs, not timer dependent ones.  </p><p>I think the answer to this is to match DoF or outdo DoF for instanced Raid Content, and then remove contested timer dependent mobs from any raid access quests.   Or modify the mobs so there spawnable by people on correct step of the quest.   They got this stuff right in the expansion before, I don't know why they forget the smart way to do things when new content comes out.   And leave the contested raid zones that are available, that way the guilds that need contested raid zones to feel complete won't be left out.</p><p>Message Edited by Blast2hell on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:04 AM</span></p>

[Feltrak]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Ishboozor wrote:</p><p>Maybe this is obvious but if your capable of killing Harla Dar, DO IT!  Dont complain that some other guild will get it 90% of the time.  Either you are capable of mobilizing and killing the mob when it is up or you are not and that in itself is a challenge the game brings and thus the reason why many people enjoy contested content.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>We are more than capable of killing the mob. Our problem lies in the fact that we are a PST central guild. I can't ask that all of my members cut out of work early to give us a chance at racing for a contested mob. There are a couple guilds on our server that are able to mobilize 3 hours earlier than us. I suppose if we are patient enough, some day the spawn will occur in that 3 hour window and we can get it. You're completely missing the point though, and you're further proving it. The point is, there are 8 raiding guilds that are able to take this content, and less than half of them will ever see it. I think that's sad. The way it's looking now, there will be a maximum of 2 guilds on Blackburrow able to reach deathtoll before the next expansion. Again, I am not complaining. I just think it's ludicrous that half of the instanced content won't be seen. Judging from the fact that Halls of seeing, and the other raid zone got bumped from LU21, and don't have a given date, I don't think we're going to see them for another couple months.<p>Message Edited by Feltrak on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:46 AM</span></p>

[Myria]

<div></div><div></div><div>Everything was already said 8 month ago. One of the most replied post was made, with lot's of discussion, flame and comments.</div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=55753&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=55753&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</a></div><div>Unfortunatly history repeats in itself. Same player shoot again...</div><div> </div><div>With DoF, the "full contested content" was ended and we got instead some nice instanced zone and some contested (not enough). Both were in game to enjoy all play style.</div><div>Contested content was not needed for the main plot of the expansion. You can go to Poet's palace return, The djinn masters, Pedestal of sky or Godking without killing contested content (silent city was trigger, something quiet different from pure contested). On the other side, those who likes competition were able to race and take pleasure with those who likes it without hurting those who dislike and refuse it. DoF got several problem, but at least it seamed the playerbase was heard by dev's.</div><div> </div><div>With KoS, 1 step back as been done. Working with 2 dev team show here some incoherence.</div><div>To give an exemple, i would be pleased if Pantrilla, Vraksakin and other named in Temple of Scale but not! Harla'dar were contested. I will probably never saw the first mobs, and don't care about it. Other guilds who like contested content will rush on it, take pleasure and race together. The way they'll play won't disturb me since it won't prevent me from playing the way i like to. At the moment, this is not the case. Hope dev's are gonna fix this.</div><div> </div><div>There is currently a way that is quiet "simple": instance harla'dar's area (but not the rest of Temple of scale), and do the same with Gorenaire/Talendor's Area. There is already a zoning to go to Harla'dar's area, so it is totally possible. For Gorenaire & Talendor area, i don't know yet.</div><p>Message Edited by Myriala on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:34 AM</span></p>

[Ishbu]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Feltrak wrote:<p>We are more than capable of killing the mob.</p><hr></blockquote>Have you ever killed Harla Dar?  If not, then you cant really come here claiming your more than capable.

[Thug]

<div>Anyone who is for specific access quest mobs being contested is just a roosterblocker.</div>

[Beghard]

Ok raid zones are nice and we all said that when SotL came out, now its time to stop doing this and go back to instanced zones with one encounter, or something else like the Rumbler in Zek. Clearing a zone is all good and fine but people dont walways want to have to do that crap, some of us would ratherjust go from point a to b even it it means not always geting a master like it used to. Why can we have both?<div></div>

[Jora']

<div></div><div>Some  of the above posts are spot on.</div><div> </div><div>I'm sure SOE would have spent a good amount of time developing this content (Deathtoll raid zone), which, based on the access requirements will be enjoyed by less than 1% of the server population. Bravo!</div><div> </div><div>For example, on Najena, Haala Dar popped yesterday and was quickly taken down once again by the only guild who currently can. It takes time to work out a mob, develop a working strat to ultimately defeat it.  But at the same time, there is never going to be any time to develop a strat when the other guild purposely camps it, and downs it soon after it pops.  Sure, we could also camp it so we could ultimately get into Deathtoll. But all the other guild has to do to show up and do its thing  to keep a monopoly on Deathtoll access. This is very wrong.</div><div> </div><div>By rushing your guild to 70 within a cpl of weeks of expansion, working out Haala Daar first, and then keeping a tab on when he pops and get him first each time, u to can ensure that ONLY your guild has access to this content......</div><p>Message Edited by Jora' on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:58 PM</span></p>

[Viane]

<div>Point being...KoS lacks raid content bottom line.  To be able to access further raid content guilds must kill a contested mob that some guilds are capable monopolizing due to lack of time restraints.  Is this fair?  To those that are able to monopolize the content, of course it is, to those that arent into the competitive content and server firsts, no it is not.  There will never be an agreement on this...of course not.   Some guilds can monopolize the dragon needed to further deathtoll content while others, who are capable of taking it down, were it not a contested spawn, simply will not have the opportunity.  Guilds that have the ability can and will block other guilds from being able to access this mob and the content that it opens.  If that is SoE's vision then so be it.  Sadly it does nothing but create further derision between guilds and does nothing to promote any sense of community on servers.</div>

[Scort]

Contested raid zones just totally suck.Wish we could find out who the developers are that makes the stupid boring [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] decisions on this stuff. Fan Faire would be a lot more interesting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />They seriously need classes in what's fun for players.Whoever did Vyemm's and SoTL though need a raise.<div></div>

[Ishbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Contested raid zones just totally suck.Wish we could find out who the developers are that makes the stupid boring [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] decisions on this stuff. Fan Faire would be a lot more interesting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />They seriously need classes in what's fun for players.Whoever did Vyemm's and SoTL though need a raise.<div></div><hr></blockquote>While I agree lab and sotl are great zones, contested = fun for many people. 

[Viane]

<div></div>Yes, contested = fun for many.  So have it at it.  Contested = content is crap.  To be able to access raid content by only killing contested mobs is, well, crap. KoS lacks real raid content, I dont think many can honestly contest this point.  To place a mob that is contested and drops decent loot as access to further content in game is nothing but a block to guilds that may not be #1 on their servers but wish to further themselves.  As previously stated guilds can and will block other guilds from reaching this content, and this does nothing but drive an even larger wedge between communities that are already divided due to server mergers.

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>Viane wrote:<div></div>Yes, contested = fun for many.  So have it at it.  Contested = content is crap.  To be able to access raid content by only killing contested mobs is, well, crap. KoS lacks real raid content, I dont think many can honestly contest this point.  To place a mob that is contested and drops decent loot as access to further content in game is nothing but a block to guilds that may not be #1 on their servers but wish to further themselves.  As previously stated guilds can and will block other guilds from reaching this content, and this does nothing but drive an even larger wedge between communities that are already divided due to server mergers.<hr></blockquote>Its called raid progression, the top guilds are on top.  Its a lot of fun for people and that includes guilds that arent #1 on their server but have a real drive to be there.  If a guild wants to be a high end raider bad enough, they will find a way.

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

<div>I just hope that none of the dragons on Crushbone were killed by a spanish raiding guild, if that was the case, I will never get access, period. And I guess the inverse will be true for spanish people on CB who need a dragon but can't, because it was killed in the middle of the night in their timezone.</div>

[Noaani]

<div>This thread has 3 people from 2 raid guilds (Eternal Chaos and Dissolution) defending content that they are going to end up monopolising on their servers, and they know they are going to. They are up against every person that plays this game, raids, but is not in the top raiding guild on their given server. One of these three has said that these mobs are all about compition, and that if we dont like compition, we should all stick to quests. He has also said, and was plainly wrong when he said it, that there is probably as much instanced raid content as contested (instanced is the Laboratory of Lord Vyemm and Trails of the Awakened, up against Hurricanus, Cyenadros, Haraghur, The Mutagenic Outcast, The Three Princes, the 6 mobs that i know of from the cube, Ascent of the Awakened and Temple of Scale, and with the access quest the way it is, Deathtoll may as well be a contested zone too).</div><div>Another of these of these three has even stated that, given the chance, he would find it ammusing to prevent others from accessing and enjoying content they have paid for, and also mentioning that doing so is no big deal</div><div>The third of these three said, and i quote "<strong>OMG you mean there are zones with raids mobs that are contested instead of just zoning into your own solo player instance?</strong>" while he was typing that he obviously forgot that this last expantion pack is the first time anyone that did not play EQ1 would have had this. To them raids have always been either contested mobs that spawn in set locations in otherwise normal solo/group zones, or the very instanced zones that he was mentioning. He also must have not noticed that a solo player in a raid zone, as he was suggesting, is not likely to be a very rewarding experiance (although, as the leader of Dissolution, maybe he would know better, maybe they are soloing epic instances). He also stated that many people enjoy contested content, which, in my experiances, there are very few people that enjoy contested content except for those 24 people that actually kill the contested mob. He is also trying to tell other people, in other guilds, on other servers, what they are and are not capable of killing.</div><div>What all three of these people have neglected to take note of is that people are fine with contested content, we like the fact it is there, and we do have a chance to kill it, even if that chance is somewhat small. We are more than happy for those guilds that are capable of getting 24 people to the mob first, with the right stratagy, to get the loot from that mob, even if (and this is the norm rather than the exception) one guild on each server is monopolising those mobs. What we dont like is that same contested content being put up as a barrier between us and the rest of the instanced raid content we want to enjoy.</div><div> </div><div>I wonder if SoE will look at Harla Dar as a quest mob rather than a contested raid mob, and if they view it as a quest mob, I wonder if they will take the same action against guilds griefing others and preventing them from getting that update as they do with groups that do the same, would be interesting to see some reactions if that were the case.</div><div> </div><div>I would also like to see how Dissolution would enjoy contested content if they were to find themselves on the same server as Eternal Chaos, NPU, Second Dawn and some of the other top raiding guilds. Wonder if they would still enjoy contested content when 9 times out of 10 their participation in that content is watching another guild kill it.</div>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Contested raid zones just totally suck.Wish we could find out who the developers are that makes the stupid boring [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] decisions on this stuff. Fan Faire would be a lot more interesting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />They seriously need classes in what's fun for players.Whoever did Vyemm's and SoTL though need a raise.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Don't know who did SoTL,  But Earlocust was the dev our guild worked with Primarily when beta Testing Lord Vremms.  So, I would assume, Earlocust is mostly responsible for Lord Vremms, if not completely.   And yes, those are two great Raid zones.<p>Message Edited by Blast2hell on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:17 AM</span></p>

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Noaani wrote:<div>I wonder if SoE will look at Harla Dar as a quest mob rather than a contested raid mob, and if they view it as a quest mob, I wonder if they will take the same action against guilds griefing others and preventing them from getting that update as they do with groups that do the same, would be interesting to see some reactions if that were the case.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Does this suck for casual guilds who will not be able to access Deathtoll right away? The answer is yes.  I think it was the intent for SOE to make this quest like this.  Why else would they have put in it there?  I can say that yes as of right now we are the only guild on OUR server who has atempted Harla Dar and killed it twice.  So you can say we have it on lockdown right now because if another guild goes after Harla Dar with out knowing what to do, well lets just say that could get very interesting to watch.  You know after the top raiding guilds on each server gets there share of loot from Harla Dar they might actually not really care about Harla Dar anymore but as of right now like many people have said before me KoS is great fun but lacks the raid content and with it lacking raid content top raiding guilds are going to go after the mob they know the strat for, know the loot for and etc.    </p><p>You bring up a very valid points in your post.  I just really think it was SOE intent to make this quest like this. </p><p>As far as putting top raiding guilds on the same server, well it kind of happened with the server merge a few months ago.   Each server had there top raiding guild on that server and then everyone merged so now some servers have 4-9 guilds raiding T7 content.</p><p></p>

[vinterskugge]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Noaani wrote:<div> </div><div>I would also like to see how Dissolution would enjoy contested content if they were to find themselves on the same server as Eternal Chaos, NPU, Second Dawn and some of the other top raiding guilds. Wonder if they would still enjoy contested content when 9 times out of 10 their participation in that content is watching another guild kill it.</div><hr></blockquote>That would make it more fun.  AB is one of the most contested servers for raid content out there (as examples, the 3rd and 4th WW Vyemm kills took place here to different guilds within an hour of each other, then the first time Harla died here there were two guilds alternating pulls on her), but the competition makes it more fun and drives us and our rivals to do better.

[Benboe]

Heyhey,as I tried to explain I merely have 2 gripes with the new expansion:a) contest content that locks alot of guilds for a long time from contentb) the resemblance of EQ1While I do approve contested content and wish everyone fun doing it, meself and most of my guildies e.g. do not enjoy this kind of stuff.  It really reminds me of EQ1 - and that is not the best memory I have.Again, I would love to see a Developer explain what the outlook for EQ2 is. Is this merely a test to see what kind of content the playerbase likes more? Is it the try to grab the old EQ1 players back that frantically look for an EQ1 with better graphics? Is it to get a headstart of this Vanguard game, that according to the forums will be alot like EQ1?Oovaan<div></div>

[Ishbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Noaani wrote:<div> </div><div>I would also like to see how Dissolution would enjoy contested content if they were to find themselves on the same server as Eternal Chaos, NPU, Second Dawn and some of the other top raiding guilds. Wonder if they would still enjoy contested content when 9 times out of 10 their participation in that content is watching another guild kill it.</div><hr></blockquote>That would make it more fun.  AB is one of the most contested servers for raid content out there (as examples, the 3rd and 4th WW Vyemm kills took place here to different guilds within an hour of each other, then the first time Harla died here there were two guilds alternating pulls on her), but the competition makes it more fun and drives us and our rivals to do better.<hr></blockquote><p>Thank you.</p><p>Maybe I am in a "top" guild in eq2, but I also played eq1 in not the top guild for 5 years.  I know what its like to be locked out of stuff and it was fun.  I had more time on my hands and I made it a priority of mine in game to be on top this time around.  Ive been on both sides of the fence and both have their perks.</p>

[Beghard]

Let us know when each person from these guilds can solo this. They were made as solo content. No one cares about the fact that you did it with 22 people, once again, let us know when you do it with one. I vendor trashed most of the the crap i got anyway.<div></div>

[Myria]

<div></div><div>As with Ascent of the awakened, this zone is just crap. No challenge, crap loot, contested (so when you got 5 guild on a server you can consider this zone will be for 2 guilde max, the other having one zone less to raid), grats to the one who design this pointless zone. One thing cool from a raid point of view in KoS: Lord's Vyem laboratory. Other raid content just need to be put in trash bin. Fix this, add content unless you want your playerbase leave in less than 2 month.</div><p>Message Edited by Myriala on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:23 AM</span></p>

[Sarkoris]

<div>Although I can see both points of view here, I have to side with those that think tying Instanced zone access to contested spawns is a bad idea.</div><div> </div><div>On Najena we have one guild who would of killed Harla Dar (/wave Second Dawn), and several others who would be in a position to start attempting the encounter, my own guild included. Now in the past we have always had a very good working relationship with our fellow raid guilds. If someone mobilized first and got to a contested, they were given there shot. If a wipe occurred the next guild was free to move in. Some would cheer for the opposition guild, maybe learn a new tactic and move on, all the while sercretly barracking for the mob to get their own attempt. This has worked well for us since day 1 of the game.</div><div> </div><div>But contested is exactly that. A trophy that can be aimed for, kudos to those that do them world, server first etc. But not required to access content. If Deathtoll was also full of contested content I would say tying the quest to contested mobs is acceptable. But blocking instanced raid zones, which most will agree are aimed at a different type of raid guild than those that fight so hard for contested mobs is pretty poor planning.</div><div> </div><div>It does not take into account different time zones very rarely if ever getting a shot at the mobs and hence access. Najena is widely accepted as being the unofficial Australian/NZ/Oceania server and has a high offpeak population. If we had killed Harla Dar on AEST time zone timing, would the US guild on our server be happy that it normally repops at the wee small hours of their workday. I think not.</div><div> </div><div>Again I have nothing against those that consider contested content and the drama it brings with it as the highlight of the game. But the majority of us do not. We prefer instanced raid content, if for nothing else than something to do when max level has been achieved. But to reduce access to instanced raid content due to a contested mob roadblock harps back to the worst aspects of EQ 1 (PoTime elelmental gods being a perfect example).</div><div> </div><div>I applaud Second Dawn for being the top raiding guild on our server, and they would be stupid not to take down any contested they can for the loot if nothing else. But I think my goodwill would be strained if in 6/12 months time they still killed Harla Dar for no other reason that to prevent me accessing Deathtoll. If I wanted drama and ill will to be the norm, I would play PvP not PVE. My battle is with the environment, not other players.</div><div> </div><div>Sark. </div>

[Ellrin]

<div></div><p>To be honest this whole situation fills me with dread.</p><p>We are a guild that whilst not being hardcore, love to raid and are compitent at it, just need a full clearing of PP:R (attrition and time beats us more than the challenge of the zone <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and Prism to put T6 raiding to bed.</p><p>We will hit contested mobs if we find them up but we have set raid days and being on the Guk server (which as many of you are aware was raid guild heavy even before we were merged with Toxx) are very lucky to find any up.</p><p>We are trying to schedule T7 raid progression and so far have been in Lab, in fact im trying to throttle people back from all doing their Marks so that we can at least raid some T7 content, pathetic really and truly a short sighted decision to have contested raid progression mobs based on the current server populations.</p><p>I thought we had made a welcome departure from this crap when we left EQ1 and the rubbish that goes on there, Ill echo a previous poster, if i want grief I'll go play PvP, we play in a PVE environment.</p><p>Dont get me wrong there should be contested mobs, of course, but they should not in anyway shape or form be needed to access an instanced zone.</p><p> </p>

[megatra]

<div>To this Schmoogles guy who totally thinks he and his guild is the shiznit.. sorry but Temple of Scale was not intended to be how you wish it would. Contested raid zone? No problem with that. But set timers will not last long. This happened in T5 and the same guilds were killing the contested over and over and over because they were the only ones that knew when it would respawn.. so they randomized them. Do you seriously think SOE's intentions are to see only 1 guild per server in Deathtoll?  Having the ability to keep x4 mobs down for the sole purpose of keeping other people from killing them is called griefing in my book.. and should be with the Devs as well. We are all glad it helps you keep an erection.</div><div> </div><div>This zone just like any other contested mob will of course stay contested but the timer will be fixed I'm sorry to say.</div>

[MagicWand]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div>I see this zone simply as somewhere they put in to keep Harla Dar.  It's like they wanted her to take some clearing to get to, and if she was in Sanctum you could just train to her.  So they put in a zone full of epic trash with a sprinkling of nameds to make getting to her slightly more challenging.</div><hr></blockquote>Yeah my dream of thinking this zone would be the new ToV (EQ1) has been shot down.  I think that was the best zone ever created in any game.

[MagicWand]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gimmisome wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>CoLD MeTaL wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div>...  I also love the fact that if a guild really wanted to they could keep every dragon down preventing any other guilds from accessing deathtoll.  ...<hr></div></blockquote><p>That is what is wrong with this game.</p><hr></blockquote>what is it they say........  "if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch".  oh, and,  "if ya can't beat em. join em"this game is allllllll about competition. If you don't like competition, then I'd suggest you stick to quests.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!  So you think its "good competition" to just kill quest/access mobs just to keep other guilds from accessing to a new zone?   You are a piece of work.

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>megatraum wrote:<div>To this Schmoogles guy who totally thinks he and his guild is the shiznit.. sorry but Temple of Scale was not intended to be how you wish it would. Contested raid zone? No problem with that. But set timers will not last long. This happened in T5 and the same guilds were killing the contested over and over and over because they were the only ones that knew when it would respawn.. so they randomized them. Do you seriously think SOE's intentions are to see only 1 guild per server in Deathtoll?  Having the ability to keep x4 mobs down for the sole purpose of keeping other people from killing them is called griefing in my book.. and should be with the Devs as well. We are all glad it helps you keep an erection.</div><div> </div><div>This zone just like any other contested mob will of course stay contested but the timer will be fixed I'm sorry to say.</div><hr></blockquote>Where did I say that me and my guild are the shiznit?  If you read all my post I never said anywhere in there that my guild is the shiznit.   Of course they are going to change the timer on these mobs soe can't think that far in advance when they rush to put a new exp pack out.  If you read my posts and I think you are refering to me saying that we control Harla Dar atm.   The reason I said that is because there are NO other guilds on our server who have even attempted him besides us, does that make me the shiznit?  No...  It was sony intent to make contested mobs part of access quests and even quests in general, else they would not have put it in the game.   You can complain all you want about it but its not going to change the fact that you need a contested mob to access deathtoll.  Like other people have said before me every raiding guild is going to go after a contested mob even if it takes 5 days to spawn or 14 days to spawn.  That is not going to change. 

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MagicWand wrote:<div></div>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!  So you think its "good competition" to just kill quest/access mobs just to keep other guilds from accessing to a new zone?   You are a piece of work.<hr></blockquote>Contested Mobs = They are going to get killed period.........quest or no quest ......Harla Dar is a Contested mob !!!  

[MagicWand]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>MagicWand wrote:<div></div>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!  So you think its "good competition" to just kill quest/access mobs just to keep other guilds from accessing to a new zone?   You are a piece of work.<hr></blockquote>Contested Mobs = They are going to get killed period.........quest or no quest ......Harla Dar is a Contested mob !!!  <hr></blockquote><p>Yeap, instead of progressing throw the linear maze the Devs have put forward for us, and taking on and learning the new stuff, you perfer to farm old crap just to block other guilds under the guise of "Well, its contested so screw everyone else."</p><p>The people that move foward are the ones who do serverwide firsts.</p>

[Schmoogles]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MagicWand wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Schmoogles wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>MagicWand wrote:<div></div>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!  So you think its "good competition" to just kill quest/access mobs just to keep other guilds from accessing to a new zone?   You are a piece of work.<hr></blockquote>Contested Mobs = They are going to get killed period.........quest or no quest ......Harla Dar is a Contested mob !!!  <hr></blockquote><p>Yeap, instead of progressing throw the linear maze the Devs have put forward for us, and taking on and learning the new stuff, you perfer to farm old crap just to block other guilds under the guise of "Well, its contested so screw everyone else."</p><p>The people that move foward are the ones who do serverwide firsts.</p><hr></blockquote><p>How is Harla Dar old stuff?  Halra Dar is T7.  Did you stop killing the Tree in T6 after you got all its loots?   didn't think so</p>

[Iustus]

<div>I think Sony needs to make up its mind.</div><div> </div><div>If they want raiding to be about guilds fighting over contested content, and spending most of the week with nothing to do, then be clear about it, and those of us that do not enjoy that can find another game.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Contested content is fun for the winners, and not fun for the losers.</strong> Period.</div><div> </div><div>If you are sometimes a winner, and sometimes a loser, it is fun, like most games.</div><div> </div><div>If you are almost always a loser, it is not fun at all.</div><div> </div><div>The way EQ1 worked, and the way EQ2 works, is that the race is stacked to the people that got their first. (For all reasons explained in previous posts).</div><div> </div><div>So, the bottom line is that if things stay as they are, there are going to be a lot more losers than winners. Which is going to me the game is not going to be fun for a large number of players.</div><div> </div><div>Honestly, how long do you think people will keep playing when there is one raid they can do a week?</div><div> </div><div>One guild can kill all the conested mobs on a server before any respawn. Since there is only one non-contested raid, that means that guilds that are incapable of winning contested races will have one raid per week.</div><div> </div><div>I dont think most guilds can continue to function on one raid a week.</div><div> </div><div>The guilds that win are happy, thats clear. And if multiple guilds are on same level and trade wins, thats fun too. But the reality is that one guild per server (sometimes two) will be getting almost all of the spawns. They will be having fun.</div><div> </div><div>The other guilds will be wondering if they should find a new game, or just not play.</div><div> </div><div>-I</div>

[Scort]

Even guilds that can do the content, aren't that happy.DoF was a disaster with a lot of broken content, crappy loot and not that much to do. It wasn't till the end right before KoS came out that things started to turn but, still bugged content and loot was still soso.KoS started out really good but, still finding bugged content, loot is good though and content getting changed to where only 1 or 2 guilds worldwide can do it. KoS though has very little to do guild raid wise. One zone, Vyemm's Lab and that's it, that's fun. Only other thing is be bored out of your skull to the point where not many people log in to do stuff like Ascent of the asleep.So, even the ones that can do it, aren't that happy either, they are especially less happy than the smaller guilds that have a ton of group zones to do and don't have to deal with these major headaches and bugs.<div></div>

[SageGaspar]

<div><span>My main issue as a member of a light raiding guild is that in moving to T7 we've lost much more raid content than we've gained. At level 50 there were a ton of instances all over the place, the Prismatic quest, we could try Bloodlines or Spirits of the Lost or Splitpaw if we wanted to. At level 60 we pretty much retained all this possible content and added in some neat little challenges for us, like Gates, Al'afaz, Silent City and Lockjaw. Now as we hit 70, we've lost pretty much all the level 50 content and gained Vyemm. Like Scafloc said, there's a major competition on AB for these contesteds, and there really is no room for a casual raiding guild to mobilize.EQ2 is a game that thus far has done its best to avoid truly annoying contested content and honestly has been the best setup for casual raiding that I've seen. I've got no beef with a time or difficulty requirement. In fact, I think T6 nailed this, even if you don't agree on the loot or think it was buggy. There was absolutely nothing stopping most raiding guilds from getting to and attempting the Djinn Master's Prism, but how long did it take before a perfectly tweaked raid finally managed to defeat it? In T7, instead of a great balance like this where every guild can try but the content is terribly challenging, we have an annoying contested series of hurdles stopping everyone from getting into an ultimate zone that was defeated weeks into the expansion.As more and more of the people I know finish off Halls of Fate, get suited up in their Legendary, get tired of Palace and Sanctum, and finish up the rest of the too-few quests scattered around, pretty much all that's left is the Claymore series and Vyemm (besides instance farming, which is... well, you know, it can get a little old <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). I'm beginning to think that those ridiculous camps in the Claymore series were created with the full knowledge of how little else there was to do.Of course, the two raid instances that haven't been completed might turn out to be large or have some great depth or something, in which case count me satisfied. I just don't like the idea of having one current-tier raid zone that we have a reasonable shot at.</span></div>

[Andu]

I dont think SOE planned to allow kockblocking back in the game. I just think they have rushed out yet another expansion without finishing it properly and now we have this dross of an access quest to Deathtoll.Ive got the EQ2 atlas book by Prima, in it are the maps for Halls of Seeing and Lyceum of Abhorrence. It's blatantly obvious that the game was supposed to have these instanced zones up and they were supposed to house Harla Dar and the other dragons for the access quest, in the same manner that Vyemm is instanced. Even the LU22 patch notes refer to the followers of Harla Dar being in the Lyceum. Why would they be there if she was in a Temple somewhere else? They get lost or they just stupid?I just hope they eat humble pie and revert it to how it was supposed to be and fast. All the raid guilds who want contested content can then wave their diks at each other in ToS and stop annoying the rest of us.<div></div>

[laatikko]

<div></div><p>Buhuu I wan't my wurmslayer too!! Stop killing harla, dont need access but want my hq done!! Eq2 isnt fair, never was, never will be.</p><p> </p><p>but soe always nerfs ewerything down after enough whining so dont worry..</p><p>It was pretty annoying trying to complete some quests like the crown hq when tyrock was never up and if it was some1 killed it fast just for the fun and same goes thru out the line.</p><p>If it's a "contested" q-mob make it no-drop like so many others.  If it carries loot and ur update camp it 24/7 'til u get it.</p><p> </p><p>//PauZZe</p>

[JNewby]

<div></div><p>imo the way they did the raids zones and raids in this expansion is to put it nicely terrible... there is nothing for a raid guild to consistly raid, it would take me all day every day of check ing to see if we have soemthing.. and even then some other guild may snipe it... contested is a fundistraction form the normal raid grind.. but if thereis no normal raid grind contesteds are just not enoguh.. for example now not only for me to get an item I can use do we have to find something.. then we have to figure out how to kill it afterwe figure that out we have to make sure we get to it before another guild then we actually have to kill it.. after that it has to drop loot that a person would want.. then they have to win that item.. that is alot of steps for probably nothing.. and relly I dont think alot of people have htat kind of time.</p><p> </p>

[Scort]

Yep, they rushed out another xpak. We are loosing people because of this xpak, on top of DoF debacle.At first, they are nice as you are leveling, you don't see all the problems. Nothing much at all to do this xpak. Raiding guilds are left twiddling their thumbs and bugged content and encounters.I wish someone at SOE would take the bull by the horns and pull this thing together and make it a fun game again.The T5 days are gone and doesn't look like they will ever return. Those were the best days of the game.You had a lot of content to do every day and the loot was really nice, making risk vs reward worth it. Now it seems like they are trying so hard to cause more deaths and more risk and taking more money out of the game, than they are adding fun and decent loot worth the risk and very little content. Then what content they do have, is nothing but an exercise in total boredom and no loot.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:54 PM</span></p>