Repair Costs

[Terabethia]

<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Items ***</FONT></STRONG> <DIV><BR>- Repair costs on Fabled items has been reduced significantly. Previously, they cost four times as much as Legendary items to repair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>THANK YOU!!  THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>Oh yea... and thank you! Much Love!</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Kraven Coldblade]

You forgot to say thank you! :smileywink:

[Kizee]

<DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]... I can't bust my guilds balls when they have to pay 80+ gold to repair when I normally spent about 15. :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kraven Coldblade]

<P>cloth armor 4tw!</P>

[SweetSynergy]

<P>Good to hear. Hope it sticks. </P> <P>Most people with fabled work hard to get that stuff and are then penalised for using it by paying phenomenal repair costs. </P> <P>Good job SOE. </P>

[Ixnay]

<P>I agree, thank you, this is a huge improvement.  I'm paying 10 g per death now, this is a big deal for raiders.</P> <P>Thank you</P>

[Xerxess]

Can Treasure items and legendary items get a drop in price for repair too!? please it costs to much...<div></div>

[Solkarr]

<P>Treasured and legendary repair costs are minimal, fabled repair costs run 50-100 or more gold for a 100% repair.  There does need to be SOME penalty for death, however 1p or more is pretty steep.  This is a good change the way they have it.  (my personal repairs currently run me 48g, since I am only half in fabled).</P> <P> </P>

[Derrmerth2]

See, I was smart. I kept my newbie gear. Mere copper for a full repair.Go me!

[Homeskillet]

    Yeah this makes me happy, I was already at 62 gold a repair and far from full fabled.<div></div>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Solkarr wrote:<BR> <P>Treasured and legendary repair costs are minimal, fabled repair costs run 50-100 or more gold for a 100% repair.  There does need to be SOME penalty for death, however 1p or more is pretty steep.  This is a good change the way they have it.  (my personal repairs currently run me 48g, since I am only half in fabled)<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Exactally. As a plate wearer with about 80%+ fabled gear, it was costing me approx. 88gp for a full 100% repair. This seems completely nuts compaired to the legendary costs and I can't figure out why it was not addressed even sooner. You work your tushie off raiding to get nice gear, and then get punished for raiding by getting high repair bills. So now you have to spend time farming masters so that you can afford to repair the gear that you spend your time and effort obtaining. So confusing... :smileysad:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>But like I said... THANK YOU! :smileywink: Oh yea... one more thanks to SoE. I LOVE my Mini Billy Doll, he's great. It's honestly the only item I have ever truely wished were in this game. You made me proud! </FONT><BR></P><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:40 AM</span>

[KBern]

Yeah I am presently at 8gp a death (yeah cheap cloth repairs /rollseyes) so this will make it much less painful to my wallet.

[Oakum]

<P>Question now is. What is going to take the fabled repair bills place as a money sink to remove it from the game? How bad will inflation be now that raiders will be so much richer? What will lower tier items price rise to since we will all know that their will be more money for them to spend for those 70's who raid to spend on twinks?</P> <P>Hopefully the first question will have a good answer and so make the other questions not apply.</P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <P>Question now is. What is going to take the fabled repair bills place as a money sink to remove it from the game? How bad will inflation be now that raiders will be so much richer? What will lower tier items price rise to since we will all know that their will be more money for them to spend for those 70's who raid to spend on twinks?</P> <P>Hopefully the first question will have a good answer and so make the other questions not apply.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I really do not understand this idea about how raiders are SOOO rich. I can tell you that ALL I do is raid. I rarely farm things, because quite franky, I just don't have the time. I have never had more than 50pp. I know several people who are "rich" (couple hundred plat), some are raiders and some are not. Being a high end raider does not equate to being rich. Having money is something that anyone can do, it's not exclusive to a certain "group". On raids, you go through an entire zone and a couple of people get loot. And they USE that loot, they don't (and most of the can't) sell it. Most guilds also do not lotto the trash loot, it is taken up by the raid leader, vendored and placed in the guild bank for guild expenses.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>We have enough money sinks in this game. We don't need more. Some people just have tons of cash, but most don't. Some people spend their $$ like it's burning a hold in their pocket, some horde it. </FONT> </P>

[Aandien]

<DIV>The other possible side effect will be that those lev 70 people will stop farming zones for masters, because they won't need to farm as much to pay for repairs....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus the amount of masters on the brokers will go down and the prices will rise further on those masters because there is less supply.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So those people who still need masters will have to pay an even higher price for them -- but the repair savings won't impact those folks as much, cause that general population isn't one that is fully fabled anyway.</DIV>

[Xerxess]

<div><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Solkarr wrote: <div></div> <p>Treasured and legendary repair costs are minimal, fabled repair costs run 50-100 or more gold for a 100% repair.  There does need to be SOME penalty for death, however 1p or more is pretty steep.  This is a good change the way they have it.  (my personal repairs currently run me 48g, since I am only half in fabled)</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p><font color="#33ccff">Exactally. As a plate wearer with about 80%+ fabled gear, it was costing me approx. 88gp for a full 100% repair. This seems completely nuts compaired to the legendary costs and I can't figure out why it was not addressed even sooner. You work your tushie off raiding to get nice gear, and then get punished for raiding by getting high repair bills. So now you have to spend time farming masters so that you can afford to repair the gear that you spend your time and effort obtaining. So confusing... :smileysad:</font></p> <p><font color="#33ccff">But like I said... THANK YOU! :smileywink: Oh yea... one more thanks to SoE. I LOVE my Mini Billy Doll, he's great. It's honestly the only item I have ever truely wished were in this game. You made me proud! </font></p><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class="date_text">08-24-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:40 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Us more casual players work out "tushie" off to get legendary stuff too, so how come we can't have a break on our cost? I mean you all raid to get the best stuff I don't see how paying 88gp for 80% fabled gear is so bad. Most raid guilds are quite weatlhy and I can't believe you can't afford it...You raid for the best and you get the best but the best always cost more the upkeep.</div>

[Aandien]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terabethia wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I really do not understand this idea about how raiders are SOOO rich. I can tell you that ALL I do is raid. I rarely farm things, because quite franky, I just don't have the time. I have never had more than 50pp. I know several people who are "rich" (couple hundred plat), some are raiders and some are not. Being a high end raider does not equate to being rich. Having money is something that anyone can do, it's not exclusive to a certain "group". On raids, you go through an entire zone and a couple of people get loot. And they USE that loot, they don't (and most of the can't) sell it. Most guilds also do not lotto the trash loot, it is taken up by the raid leader, vendored and placed in the guild bank for guild expenses.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>We have enough money sinks in this game. We don't need more. Some people just have tons of cash, but most don't. Some people spend their $$ like it's burning a hold in their pocket, some horde it. </FONT> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your guild that is selling the loot your raid doesn't want -- is hopefully re-distributing that cash back to their raiders.  Assuming you don't die alot (ie the instances are mostly just farm instances at this point) -- your repair costs really shouldn't be that bad per week.  Thus, the money you make from selling the loot you don't need should more than cover all your costs, plus make yourself some profit every trip.</P> <P>I think I probably make about 15pp or so as an individual in a raiding guild just from raiding (after all my repair costs) per month -- and thats pretty low compared to some servers and how much the market is willing to pay for stuff.<BR></P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AncientElster wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Your guild that is selling the loot your raid doesn't want -- is hopefully re-distributing that cash back to their raiders.  Assuming you don't die alot (ie the instances are mostly just farm instances at this point) -- your repair costs really shouldn't be that bad per week.  Thus, the money you make from selling the loot you don't need should more than cover all your costs, plus make yourself some profit every trip.</P> <P>I think I probably make about 15pp or so as an individual in a raiding guild just from raiding (after all my repair costs) per month -- and thats pretty low compared to some servers and how much the market is willing to pay for stuff.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#33ccff>Yes, our guild does do a "payout" at the end of every month. Most all raiding guilds do this. However, even that does not always cover the costs. And just because some of the instances are "farming", raid guilds go above and beyond simple farming. For instance, my guild has spent the last 4 nights, about 3-4 hours a night, attemping Chel'Drak and finally killed him. Do you have any clue as to how much was spent on repairs? Not to mention repair kits for each of the 24 members, as you can't leave the zone to get to a mender without a lock out. The costs are VERY high for hardcore raiders, even with a paycheck every month. If you are making 15pp a month through raiding, well... grats to you. That means that either your guild is THAT good that you hardly ever die, or that you are simply not challenging yourselves enough. Or that your guild pays you too much, who knows. I think I am going to talk to my guildleader about making a profit though... wonder how long it will take him to laugh at me!</FONT> <BR>

[Dagator]

I agree with Terebethia.  All raiders are not rich.  The point that she was trying to make is that not all raiders are rich, so this is a welcome change.  If you still want to pay more, the just destroy some cash, or give it to me, as I typically have less than 5 plat at all times.  I raid about four to five times a week, and never farm as I do not have time.  Our guild is not quite outfitted completely where every drop is vendor trash, so we are using most drops, or someone in the guild will use it.  I am also a dirge, so solo farming is just a stupid idea althogether, so even if I had time, I would probably only farm shinies...

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Just ignore Oakum, that person has a bug up their butt thinking that all raiders are rich evil beings out to ruin the game for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad for the reduction in fabled costs, even tho my current toon has none. It will just save me in the future as she starts to collect some!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. I know for a fact the richest person on Unrest for a LONG time never raided. So what does that say?</DIV>

[Ixnay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <P>Question now is. What is going to take the fabled repair bills place as a money sink to remove it from the game? How bad will inflation be now that raiders will be so much richer? What will lower tier items price rise to since we will all know that their will be more money for them to spend for those 70's who raid to spend on twinks?</P> <P>Hopefully the first question will have a good answer and so make the other questions not apply.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your premises are invalid.  I was top 3 richest on my server in the original expansion, before I ever raided once.  Some people are just better at EQ2 than you may be, and have less trouble accumulating wealth in this game than others.</P> <P>To address your point about twinks:  My 3 accounts are already filled with twinks, and each of these characters are almost already fully decked, so lowering mender fees will not cause me to contribute to server inflation.   I check the broker every day for fabled for all classes, and try and fully gear all my alts in fabled whenever possible.  It's so hard to find tradeable fabled for characters between 20 and 40, however, so I usually have to compromise and buy rare crafted from crafters instead.  All my characters (every one) have full master 1 spells also, beginning with all Tier 2 spells.  I usually don't start playing my alts really until I have all their masters and top end gear banked in advance up to at least level 40.</P> <P>So lowering the mender fees will make zero difference in my spending habits.</P> <P>And BTW, I make most of my money by two box farming the Palace of Ascent dragons and similar, so that has nothing to do with raiding.  I would still be able to do this even if I wasn't a raider, since there is no more than a 5 to 10% difference in total stats between players in the same class who are fully equipped in the best raid gear they can obtain, and other players with just a few fabled drops they've purchased and otherwise wearing top end legendary they've farmed.  What I'm saying is there isn't much difference in quality and total stats between a full set of raid and non-raid gear anyway, so a 10x multiplier on fabled mender fees over legendary was never justified by this 10% max difference in quality.</P> <P>I think the more important question is, why do you feel it should cost raiders 10x more to die than non-raiders?</P><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[Loki9s]

<P>I don't personally think raiding and personal wealth have anything to do with each other. Sure I know decked out raiders who are loaded, but I also know crafters who play the market well who have twice as much money and have never raided in thier life. I myself am a casual raider, I have a few fabled pieces here and there but overall i welcome this change. My legendary/treasured gear was never really much to repair. Common grind groups would allow me the money i needed to rep them with minimal solo/farming involved. The few fabled pieces I do wear were i won off random roles or no one else needed, as with most they are no-trade so i couldn't have sold them anyways. I find that raiders are often the ones with the least ammount of money, mostly using thier characters to help out lower levels which has little monitary value or to raid, which has even less.</P> <P>The concern about masters on the market and thier prices, i have to admit i hadn't thought of that angle and it does seem to be a downfall. I doubt though, that less repair costs will stop the people who farm masters from farming masters. They are still going to need money, just in smaller ammounts for reps, so it will be spent elsewhere. I personally wouldn't change my current routine because i ended up with more money in my wallet, i'd just find a way to spend the extra money because for some reason in eq i'm a shop-a-holic.</P>

[Mordacion]

Yeah sitting at about 9g16s per death right now and I'll be very glad to kiss the giant repair bills goodbye.

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ixnay wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <P>Question now is. What is going to take the fabled repair bills place as a money sink to remove it from the game? How bad will inflation be now that raiders will be so much richer? What will lower tier items price rise to since we will all know that their will be more money for them to spend for those 70's who raid to spend on twinks?</P> <P>Hopefully the first question will have a good answer and so make the other questions not apply.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your premises are invalid.  I was top 3 richest on my server in the original expansion, before I ever raided once.  Some people are just better at EQ2 than you may be, and have less trouble accumulating wealth in this game than others.</P> <P>To address your point about twinks:  My 3 accounts are already filled with twinks, and each of these characters are almost already fully decked, so lowering mender fees will not cause me to contribute to server inflation.   I check the broker every day for fabled for all classes, and try and fully gear all my alts in fabled whenever possible.  It's so hard to find tradeable fabled for characters between 20 and 40, however, so I usually have to compromise and buy rare crafted from crafters instead.  All my characters (every one) have full master 1 spells also, beginning with all Tier 2 spells.  I usually don't start playing my alts really until I have all their masters and top end gear banked in advance up to at least level 40.</P> <P>So lowering the mender fees will make zero difference in my spending habits.</P> <P>And BTW, I make most of my money by two box farming the Palace of Ascent dragons and similar, so that has nothing to do with raiding.  I would still be able to do this even if I wasn't a raider, since there is no more than a 5 to 10% difference in total stats between players in the same class who are fully equipped in the best raid gear they can obtain, and other players with just a few fabled drops they've purchased and otherwise wearing top end legendary they've farmed.  What I'm saying is there isn't much difference in quality and total stats between a full set of raid and non-raid gear anyway, so a 10x multiplier on fabled mender fees over legendary was never justified by this 10% max difference in quality.</P> <P>I think the more important question is, why do you feel it should cost raiders 10x more to die than non-raiders?</P> <P>Message Edited by Ixnay on <SPAN class=date_text>08-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:18 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Next week, Ixnay is going to start twinking out MY twinks <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <P>Question now is. What is going to take the fabled repair bills place as a money sink to remove it from the game? How bad will inflation be now that raiders will be so much richer? What will lower tier items price rise to since we will all know that their will be more money for them to spend for those 70's who raid to spend on twinks?</P> <P>Hopefully the first question will have a good answer and so make the other questions not apply.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would love to hear your reasoning as to why "raiders" are so rich.</P> <P>Please explain your reasoning on this misguided opinion.</P>

[Ixnay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loki9s wrote:<BR> <P>The concern about masters on the market and thier prices, i have to admit i hadn't thought of that angle and it does seem to be a downfall. I doubt though, that less repair costs will stop the people who farm masters from farming masters. They are still going to need money, just in smaller ammounts for reps, so it will be spent elsewhere. I personally wouldn't change my current routine because i ended up with more money in my wallet, i'd just find a way to spend the extra money because for some reason in eq i'm a shop-a-holic.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you want to stop people from farming lower tier masters, which is an EPIDEMIC in zones like Fallen Gate, Varsoon, Runnyeye, Obelisk, and Cazic Thule, the best way would be to simply increase mender fees on Legendary and Treasured gear by 10x over the current amount.  All those bot farmers running around invis in those zones between named spawns would have to find something else to do, since they would spend more on mender fees than they earned farming those named in their treasured gear.</P> <P>I seriously think mender fees should be a fixed amount per death, and based on player level, not on equipment quality.  I'm saying that all level 70 players should have the same mender fee per death, whether they were fully geared in fabled or buck naked when they died.<BR></P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loki9s wrote: <P>The concern about masters on the market and thier prices, i have to admit i hadn't thought of that angle and it does seem to be a downfall. I doubt though, that less repair costs will stop the people who farm masters from farming masters. They are still going to need money, just in smaller ammounts for reps, so it will be spent elsewhere. I personally wouldn't change my current routine because i ended up with more money in my wallet, i'd just find a way to spend the extra money because for some reason in eq i'm a shop-a-holic.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#33ccff>I agree, I for can say that I certaintly  won't be changing my "farming" habits. As it is, I have a full time job, a RL fiancee and friends, and a full time raiding "career". I barely have time to sleep and eat, let alone farm HoF ever day. Also, there are many in my guild that DO run though zones often. Not only for the $$, but for the chance at getting a master for their own class or stuff for their twinks, and because they simply enjoy doing them. I don't think that there will be that big of a difference in the amount of people doing these instances. At least not from the people I have talked to.</FONT>  <BR>

[TheManInTheBox]

<font face="Comic Sans MS">I just let out a sigh of relief. I myself only have a few fabled items but any change that helps keep my coin in the bank is good in my opinion. <span>:smileytongue:</span></font><div></div>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ixnay wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <P>Question now is. What is going to take the fabled repair bills place as a money sink to remove it from the game? How bad will inflation be now that raiders will be so much richer? What will lower tier items price rise to since we will all know that their will be more money for them to spend for those 70's who raid to spend on twinks?</P> <P>Hopefully the first question will have a good answer and so make the other questions not apply.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your premises are invalid.  I was top 3 richest on my server in the original expansion, before I ever raided once.  Some people are just better at EQ2 than you may be, and have less trouble accumulating wealth in this game than others.</P> <P>To address your point about twinks:  My 3 accounts are already filled with twinks, and each of these characters are almost already fully decked, so lowering mender fees will not cause me to contribute to server inflation.   I check the broker every day for fabled for all classes, and try and fully gear all my alts in fabled whenever possible.  It's so hard to find tradeable fabled for characters between 20 and 40, however, so I usually have to compromise and buy rare crafted from crafters instead.  All my characters (every one) have full master 1 spells also, beginning with all Tier 2 spells.  I usually don't start playing my alts really until I have all their masters and top end gear banked in advance up to at least level 40.</P> <P>So lowering the mender fees will make zero difference in my spending habits.</P> <P>And BTW, I make most of my money by two box farming the Palace of Ascent dragons and similar, so that has nothing to do with raiding.  I would still be able to do this even if I wasn't a raider, since there is no more than a 5 to 10% difference in total stats between players in the same class who are fully equipped in the best raid gear they can obtain, and other players with just a few fabled drops they've purchased and otherwise wearing top end legendary they've farmed.  What I'm saying is there isn't much difference in quality and total stats between a full set of raid and non-raid gear anyway, so a 10x multiplier on fabled mender fees over legendary was never justified by this 10% max difference in quality.</P> <P>I think the more important question is, why do you feel it should cost raiders 10x more to die than non-raiders?</P> <P>Message Edited by Ixnay on <SPAN class=date_text>08-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:18 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First of all, I am not a raider - I dont not have the time available. I will "never" get raid fabled gear. In the general discussion forum the topic of gear always comes up. Some non-raiders say "why should I not be able to get full fabled gear".</P> <P>Soem raiders come back with " Risk vs. Reward"</P> <P>I am not attempting to re-start the arguement here but to answer your question - Risk vs Reward is why Fabled should be so expensive to repair. If I get more fabled gear (as I can afford it - not rich either) then I need to be prepared to pay the HIGH price to repair it. These items are meant to be rare and therefore should be expensive to repair.</P> <P>This is a bone through to raiders pure and simple.</P>

[Vorlak]

<P>Just remove the menders and armor damage completly, and give us the ability to port to any zone by typing /zone, also make a merchant where we can go and buy relic gear that will charge our account $$ for what we buy.</P> <P>Want a money sink, remove 90% of the coin drops from mobs like it was when the game came out... only way you got money was to get body loot to sale or rewards from quest. You know back when 1p ment you where rich.<BR></P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vorlak wrote:<BR> <P>Just remove the menders and armor damage completly, and give us the ability to port to any zone by typing /zone, also make a merchant where we can go and buy relic gear that will charge our account $$ for what we buy.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Be careful what you ask for. It wouldn't suprise me if they did all that in the very near future since SOE is making things easier and easier.<p>Message Edited by Kizee on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>I am not attempting to re-start the arguement here but to answer your question - Risk vs Reward is why Fabled should be so expensive to repair. If I get more fabled gear (as I can afford it - not rich either) then I need to be prepared to pay the HIGH price to repair it. These items are meant to be rare and therefore should be expensive to repair.</P> <P>This is a bone through to raiders pure and simple.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Umm... I didn't get a single peice of fabled gear through the broker. I raided and earned it all through DKP, which is based only on my attendace to my guild, not the amount of plat that I have. Heck, even most of my resist gear that is treasured/legenary was either obtained through instances or again with guild DPK. None of it cost me a single plat to obtain. If I had to actually buy all of my fabled, I probably wouldn't own a single peice. Again, people are always assuming that if you have good gear, you must be rich. I don't understand this thought process, but it's completely incorrect. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I do the same things as everyone else. I go out and kill mobs. I just happen to kill harder mobs that require a good group of 24 people to kill. So I am killing the same as you, but a much harder mob with much more <EM><STRONG>risk</STRONG></EM>. But why the extra cost on top of it? Why should you get to run around soloing in treasured gear, having just as much fun as me, but pay far less? Because you simply assume that I should have massive amounts of money? </FONT> <BR></P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vorlak wrote:<BR> <P>Just remove the menders and armor damage completly, and give us the ability to port to any zone by typing /zone, also make a merchant where we can go and buy relic gear that will charge our account $$ for what we buy.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=311393119-24082006><FONT face=Georgia color=#000080><FONT color=#33ccff>Oh goodie, the exaggerations have begun! This is always my favorite part, watching people making a mountain out of a molehill.</FONT> :smileysurprised:</FONT></SPAN><BR>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Terabethia wrote:</P> <P><SPAN class=311393119-24082006><FONT face=Georgia color=#000080><FONT color=#33ccff>Oh goodie, the exaggerations have begun! This is always my favorite part, watching people making a mountain out of a molehill.</FONT> :smileysurprised:</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Me too! I especially love the "Well if you want it harder, do XXXX" /rolls eyes

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terabethia wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>I am not attempting to re-start the arguement here but to answer your question - Risk vs Reward is why Fabled should be so expensive to repair. If I get more fabled gear (as I can afford it - not rich either) then I need to be prepared to pay the HIGH price to repair it. These items are meant to be rare and therefore should be expensive to repair.</P> <P>This is a bone through to raiders pure and simple.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Umm... I didn't get a single peice of fabled gear through the broker. I raided and earned it all through DKP, which is based only on my attendace to my guild, not the amount of plat that I have. Heck, even most of my resist gear that is treasured/legenary was either obtained through instances or again with guild DPK. None of it cost me a single plat to obtain. If I had to actually buy all of my fabled, I probably wouldn't own a single peice. Again, people are always assuming that if you have good gear, you must be rich. I don't understand this thought process, but it's completely incorrect. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I do the same things as everyone else. I go out and kill mobs.<FONT color=#cc0000> I just happen to kill harder mobs that require a good group of 24 people to kill. So I am killing the same as you, but a much harder mob with much more <EM><STRONG>risk</STRONG></EM>. But why the extra cost on top of it?</FONT> <FONT color=#ff66cc>Why should you get to run around soloing in treasured gear, having just as much fun as me, but pay far less? Because you simply assume that I should have massive amounts of money?</FONT> </FONT> <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><STRONG>You said it yourself - Much harder mobs with much more risk = chance at better gear  Better Gear = higher repair costs.</STRONG></P> <P>Second part - You can just as easily "run around soloing in treasured gear" and pay even less than me BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE LESS due to better gear. I do not assume you have massive amounts of money. If you die while paying you incure the repair bill same as me depending on the level of gear you wear. </P> <P>I have an easy answer for you about the repair costs - I will supply you with a set of mastercrafted gear for you to raid in - 100% repair will only cost you 5 gp at most I believe. AHH but here is the point - can you be the main tank/main healer/ uber DPS in MC gear - NOPE.</P> <P>Let me give you a good anology - you drive a Ford (work 14 hours/day at a trade) and because I work 14 hours a day as an investment banker (i dont but..) my company GIVES me a Porche.  But woe is me, the cost to repair my porche is 10 times more expensive than your Ford. They both go 100 km (60 miles)/ hour, but mine can drive on the race track.</P> <P>I find it funny that people use the same arguement to benefit themselves in opposite situations.</P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR><STRONG>You said it yourself - Much harder mobs with much more risk = chance at better gear  Better Gear = higher repair costs.</STRONG></P> <P>Second part - You can just as easily "run around soloing in treasured gear" and pay even less than me BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE LESS due to better gear. I do not assume you have massive amounts of money. If you die while paying you incure the repair bill same as me depending on the level of gear you wear.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>You're responce still does not apply. You kill "normal" mobs = you get "normal" gear. I kill "raid" mobs = I get "raid" gear. It all evens out in the end. I die just as much as anyone else, if not more so given just how many attempts it takes to test out raid content. I may have better gear, but that is because I am fighting harder mobs!!! So again, it all evens out. I have the approperate gear for what I am taking on, you have the approperate gear for what you are taking on. And yet, I pay 5-10 times more than you to repair. I can see paying more. I get it. Fabled costs more than Legandary, which costs more than treasured, which costs more than crafted. But it is NOT balanced. Here's an example using easy, simple, rounded numbers. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Master Crafted Gear = 1gp repair. Treasured Gear = 2 gp to repair. Legandary Gear = 4 gp repair. Fabled Gear = 10gp repair. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Do you see the imbalance?? No one asked that it be as cheap as legandary or treasured. We asked that it scale accordingly. And apparently, SoE agreed. So in my example above, Fabled repair could would be more approperate at 6-7gp, but not 10gp as it currently is.</FONT>  <BR></P><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:54 PM</span>

[Pins]

1 Droag Egg, 13 gold.1 Death, less than 13 gold.Farming solo mobs on the Isle of the Awakening in Barren Sky, 2-5 plat an hour.Let's see, was there a problem with death costs? No, if anything I bet they're only doing this because of the fact that repair kits aren't going to ever get a level cap placed them that they are usable so we'll end up having to always have 40% repairs cost less than a repair kit. SoE failed to realize how high repair costs would go, and then put in repair kits, which are a static value, to a dynamic repair cost. So they're lowering it to make repair kits cost more than the repairs. Of course, nobody has mentioned how much lower the repairs are on test now, just that they're "lower." Repair Kits screwed up repair cost balance. Rather than making repair kits cost a lot to make, they should have just been made cheaply, and instead just take 1.5x as much as it costs to repair the items you have. And if you don't have the money, sucks to be you.

[Atmosphear1993]

<P>So is there even a death penalty in the game now?</P> <P>I semi-agree with this change.  I disagree with the change because this will decrease the risk vs. reward value for raiders (or generally people who worked for their fabled gear.)  There will not be as much worry about having a high bill after a night of raiding.  For me at least, having a high repair bill is always in the back of my mind while I raid, thus its another reason (in addition to wanting to win) to keep myself alive.</P> <P>However, like most people, I will not mind the change since it will help keep my wallet fat with PP. </P>

[Malandrin]

<DIV>And will repair kits require with this change less fuels to lower their incredibly high cost?</DIV>

[Xerxess]

<div><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Trynnus1 wrote: <div></div> <p><strong>You said it yourself - Much harder mobs with much more risk = chance at better gear  Better Gear = higher repair costs.</strong></p> <p>Second part - You can just as easily "run around soloing in treasured gear" and pay even less than me BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE LESS due to better gear. I do not assume you have massive amounts of money. If you die while paying you incure the repair bill same as me depending on the level of gear you wear.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p><font color="#33ccff">You're responce still does not apply. You kill "normal" mobs = you get "normal" gear. I kill "raid" mobs = I get "raid" gear. It all evens out in the end. I die just as much as anyone else, if not more so given just how many attempts it takes to test out raid content. I may have better gear, but that is because I am fighting harder mobs!!! So again, it all evens out. I have the approperate gear for what I am taking on, you have the approperate gear for what you are taking on. And yet, I pay 5-10 times more than you to repair. I can see paying more. I get it. Fabled costs more than Legandary, which costs more than treasured, which costs more than crafted. But it is NOT balanced. Here's an example using easy, simple, rounded numbers. </font></p> <p><font color="#33ccff">Master Crafted Gear = 1gp repair. Treasured Gear = 2 gp to repair. Legandary Gear = 4 gp repair. Fabled Gear = 10gp repair. </font></p> <p><font color="#33ccff">Do you see the imbalance?? No one asked that it be as cheap as legandary or treasured. We asked that it scale accordingly. And apparently, SoE agreed. So in my example above, Fabled repair could would be more approperate at 6-7gp, but not 10gp as it currently is.</font>  </p><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class="date_text">08-24-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I think his response applies quite well, us people in Treasure and legendary kill mobs with little lisk to get crappy loot or no loot at all. You kill epic mobs with high risk to get some the best gear in the game. Best gear should cost more then crappy gear. I refuse to believe that you can't afford 10gp per piece because you said yourself you earned all your armor from drops, so where is your money going?Just like his analogy you have a Treasured ford focus that totally sux when you take it a race track but cheap to maintain versus a fabled prosche  that will tear up most cars on the track but of course will have high upkeep cost. The better you are the more you will pay...If you say you can't compare a RL car to this game then you can't compare an Epic mob to a normal or Fabled loot to treasure or Legendary loot. </div>

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Just ignore Oakum, that person has a bug up their butt thinking that all raiders are rich evil beings out to ruin the game for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad for the reduction in fabled costs, even tho my current toon has none. It will just save me in the future as she starts to collect some!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. I know for a fact the richest person on Unrest for a LONG time never raided. So what does that say?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Whether I believe that or is not as important as most non raiders believing it. I personally think that most people just getting started in raiding don't have that much. BUT. There is a definite impression on my server that someone in a full time raid guild has more money then the average T7 player in a non raiding guild. Thats average. Not the exceptional person who spends all their time playing the market squeezing the last copper piece out of buying low,selling high and.or selling shinies.</P> <P>Although raiders were the only people complaining that crafted rare armor and weapons were too good in T6 before the dev's decided to retier it and nerf it and until it was almost undesirable overall. Maybe that was just a coincidence though. lol</P> <P>It still doesn't address the situation of less money being taken out of the game. If more money is available then prices rise. If 100 (random number) people are not paying  80g to 1 plat in repairs in a week , 3.2 to 4 plat a month as the mostly/fully fabled here has stated that it cost, but paying half as much then that means their will mean their will be 40 to 50 plat a week or 160 to 200 a plat month more per server not being removed and therefore available.</P> <P>Change my numbers with the true cost of repairs old and new and subtract the difference for the actual cash flow added to the game. If their is more money availbable, their will be more people asking to get some of it with higher prices. That wont be a problem for those with the extra money though. People are not stupid and know a change like this means more money will be available. Even if you want to wear blinders. </P> <P>Higher prices won't affect me much since, while its nice to have a few plat, as long as I have enough for food and drink, I can get by. When I really want money I can farm a couple of plat in a couple of hours killing green mobs like I have been lately as I prepare to get a new horse when my guild hits 40. </P> <P>Besides, I have started doing an occasional raid. Cheaper repairs for fabled does not hurt me at all personally. It makes it easier since normal vl from doing writs, instances, ect can cover the cost easily now when I only pay not quite 30 gold for a ful repair. </P> <P> </P>

[KBern]

<P>Oh it's your desire to see the game have viable money sinks....gotcha!</P> <P>Then this fix is perfectly acceptable since everyone has cash, and a money sink that only affects a small group of players is not a true money sink anyway.</P> <P>Come up with some ideas that affect all players equally if you really are worried about valid working money sinks for the "health" of the game economy.</P>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Malandrin wrote:<DIV>And will repair kits require with this change less fuels to lower their incredibly high cost?</DIV><hr></blockquote>I expect repair kits to go up in cost to be made in the next tier, and give the same amount(40%) of repairs, and have a level limit of how high of a level you can use each one. That way we don't end up with what I've been mentioning. 40% repairs costing more than buying a repair kit. That is the problem, and that is why the prices are dropping, rather than having the repair kits go up in cost.

[Canel]

I agree with alot of the raiders who have responded to this thread. I myself once thought "Hell-if I was a raider I'd be pulling in plats by the day....Well-now I am a raider. And I'm lucky if I can pull in 75g a day. (I know thats low even for non-raiding standards [at least some ppl]) but I really don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about farming zones ect. (With a few exceptions). I just go into instances to help guildies out ect.--and I sell what I pick up and what I manage to win off the lotto. Sometimes thats 40g--sometimes thats 3p. Depends on how lucky you are-how you manage your cash-and which vendors you go to (different vendors dish out different cash amounts in case some ppl didnt know that). Sometimes my cash in the vault goes up-usually it stays put or goes down cause I gotta mend DAILY (yes-I remember the days where I could go for 4-7 days w/out even having to think on going to the mender) but those are the deals of being a raider. I think alot of new ppl and of ppl who just hate raiders and raiding guilds in general-they think we can whorde-farm ect. anywhere we want. Truth is-we gotta work for our own cash-with our own work. Sure-raid geared folks do have perks on average mobs--but still. I think the whole mender cash lowerance=one of the smartest ideas SoE has ever had during my gametime on EQ2.

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vorlak wrote:<BR> <P>Just remove the menders and armor damage completly, and give us the ability to port to any zone by typing /zone, also make a merchant where we can go and buy relic gear that will charge our account $$ for what we buy.</P> <P>Want a money sink, remove 90% of the coin drops from mobs like it was when the game came out... only way you got money was to get body loot to sale or rewards from quest. You know back when 1p ment you where rich.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Some already have this ability in addition to being able to park themselves from any zone to any other zone near another person or pulling that person to you even cross zone. :smileysurprised:

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I think his response applies quite well, us people in Treasure and legendary kill mobs with little lisk to get crappy loot or no loot at all. You kill epic mobs with high risk to get some the best gear in the game. Best gear should cost more then crappy gear. I refuse to believe that you can't afford 10gp per piece because you said yourself you earned all your armor from drops, so where is your money going?<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#33ccff>Still incorrect, because you are assuming that we actually earn money while raiding. Raiding DOES NOT give you money. Period. The raiders that actually have money do not get it from raiding. When my guild, and most raid guilds, go into a zone, we get nothing but good loot. And when we do actually get loot, it's loot that we are using, not selling. (For fun, I took a glace at my guilds DKP, and in the last 2 months, I have taken 4 peices of loot. I raid 5-6 nights a week!!!) All "vendor trash" and loot that no one wants goes to the guild bank, not the players. I can spend 3 hours in Deathtoll and come out with nothing, except repairs costs if we had some bad pulls. After our last big raid, some of our members had to get money from the guild bank just to repair their armor. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Raiders earn their money the same way the rest of the players earn their money. Though "farming" zones or crafting. NOT through raiding. So again... everyone has the same chance to earn the same amount of cash. I can't speak for the preceptions of non-raiders, but I CAN speak for the facts. And that is just a fact. If you only raid (as I generally do) then you are not making cash. Not every enjoys or wants to go farm Nek 3, HoF or the Palace everyday. Now, I am on Oasis Server. I know the people here pretty well. I took a look at the Top 10 wealthiest players. Only 4 are in "Top Raiding Guilds". That's 40%. The other 6 are not (and are not alts, either, before you ask). In fact, 2 are unguilded, and have been for quite some time. And I am also sure that if you took that farther to see the top 20 or 50 wealthest players, you would see that % go down even more.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>So to answer your question of where is my $$ going, first you have to stop assuming that I am even earning large amounts of cash. And when I do earn money, it goes to repairs and character maintaince such as totems, potions and crafting. Oh, and I don't craft to sell, BTW. I am a provisioner, but yet I only craft for myself and my fiancee, you will never see my food for sale on a broker. Honestly, I hate crafting and only took it up to try and save myself some money from the crazy prices that food/drink used to cost prior to LU24.</FONT>  </P><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>08-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:20 AM</span>

[JoarAddam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think his response applies quite well, us people in Treasure and legendary kill mobs with little lisk to get crappy loot or no loot at all. You kill epic mobs with high risk to get some the best gear in the game. Best gear should cost more then crappy gear. I refuse to believe that you can't afford 10gp per piece because you said yourself you earned all your armor from drops,<FONT color=#ff0000> <STRONG>so where is your money going</STRONG></FONT>?<BR><BR>Just like his analogy you have a Treasured ford focus that totally sux when you take it a race track but cheap to maintain versus a fabled prosche  that will tear up most cars on the track but of course will have high upkeep cost. The better you are the more you will pay...<BR><BR>If you say you can't compare a RL car to this game then you can't compare an Epic mob to a normal or Fabled loot to treasure or Legendary loot.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There is no money made raiding.  at all, none. so that means a raider spends hours a night making no money at all, but bleeding it out his butt in repair costs.  so 2-3 hours, 70g+ per day losses till you learn the zone, no gain but *maybe* a different piece of gear.  So while all the legendary folk are out there making cash from drops, harvesting, tradeskilling and selling the product at a profit (probably to a raider that uses potions and poisons and arrows so constantly that he's dumping another 70+gp a night that way) we're spending our cash with each attempt at learning the mob.</P> <P>And finally. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>We're still paying more for our repairs than the legendaries</FONT></STRONG>, still risking more for our rewards, it's just not 4X as much as legendary anymore.  As someone said before, Fabled gear isn't 4X better than legendary, it shouldn't have a 4X repair multiplier.</P> <P>And just think, this means that you PUG and PUR folk who go on relic runs and half- [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] a zone have to spend less now too.  That's you guys!  You're complaining about something that benefits you!  please grow some logic.<BR></P>

[thorvang]

i never had a problem with repair costs. but i'm by no means rich. iirc my main has a whopping 11 plat on him currently.raiding eq2 nearly every day for well over 1.5 years now and i don't have any money <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> how does it come? i don't loot anything that's worth big money on raids. some adepts, vendor trash, etc. but with 24 peeps rolling on the loot your chances to get more than two items per raid are minimal <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />so, without doing anything else but raiding you don't get rich. you may run around in fabled gear and most of your master spells are paid from the guild pot (the cheap ones, for the real expansive ones you need to farm plat ^^), but you just don't have cash.but still you had to pay insanely high repair costs. so you're forced to farm trash. there's no reason to kill non-epic stuff as a raider in eq2 other then farming for plat, none. farming for masters doesn't count cause you'd like never find one for yourself, so you just sell the masters and buy yourself what you need.and this is some problem. doing nothing else but soloing or grouping is a valid gamestyle. you'll get richer every day as a side effect. but as a pure raider you can't get along. you need to farm group or solo content to be able to get your gear repaired.and don't come with arguments like "then just farm plat, it's easy in fabled gear!" cause then i'll tell you "then start raiding instead of farming trash for relic."long story short: reducing the repair costs on fabled gear has been a good step since raiding is the gamestyle that grants the least cash income.

[TheSlashman]

<DIV>You don't get rich if you raid, go ask a plat farmer  :smileysurprised:</DIV>

[Sanju]

For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong.<div></div>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR>i never had a problem with repair costs. but i'm by no means rich. iirc my main has a whopping 11 plat on him currently.<BR><BR>raiding eq2 nearly every day for well over 1.5 years now and i don't have any money <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> how does it come? i don't loot anything that's worth big money on raids. some adepts, vendor trash, etc. but with 24 peeps rolling on the loot your chances to get more than two items per raid are minimal <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>so, without doing anything else but raiding you don't get rich. you may run around in fabled gear and most of your master spells are paid from the guild pot (the cheap ones, for the real expansive ones you need to farm plat ^^), but you just don't have cash.<BR><BR>but still you had to pay insanely high repair costs. so you're forced to farm trash. there's no reason to kill non-epic stuff as a raider in eq2 other then farming for plat, none. farming for masters doesn't count cause you'd like never find one for yourself, so you just sell the masters and buy yourself what you need.<BR><BR>and this is some problem. doing nothing else but soloing or grouping is a valid gamestyle. you'll get richer every day as a side effect. but as a pure raider you can't get along. you need to farm group or solo content to be able to get your gear repaired.<BR><BR><FONT color=#cc0033><STRONG>and don't come with arguments like "then just farm plat, it's easy in fabled gear!" cause then i'll tell you "then start raiding instead of farming trash for relic."<BR></STRONG></FONT><BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#cc0066>long story short: reducing the repair costs on fabled gear has been a good step since raiding is the gamestyle that grants the least cash income.</FONT></STRONG><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Great then with this logic the guild raid zones should drop fabled gear equal to the raid loot tables in labs etc.</P> <P>Raiders can not have it both ways - you want the best gear, then you pay to repair it. Here is a suggestion - DONT equip fabled gear - raid in Legendary/mastercrafted gear - problem of repair costs solved.</P> <P>But wait you say " but we need the fabled gear for the raid zones" - Then pay for the expensive repairs. "oh but I dont want to farm plat" - great then dont and go naked. I want Master spells and better gear, my choices are farm the zones where it drops or farm plat to pay for the gear (if availble on the broker). " Oh but I dont want to farm plat, just give me the full fabled gear" -<STRONG>  Do you think I enjoy farming plat and green named?</STRONG> No I do not, but this is the only way to get cash quickly as I am usually spending 10 plat everytime I have it on a master or gear upgrade.</P> <P>The bottom line is raiders can not have it both ways, you want the best gear, and you dont want non-raiders to get the gear you are wearing, but you do not want to maintain the gear. Give me a break - full fabled raiders can farm plat easily compared with a legendary of same class with no change to the loot table rates - so you can kill faster and get more loot.</P> <P>I am sticking this thread for the next time the gear arguement comes up ( every couple of weeks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )<BR></P>

[Krooner]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Great then with this logic the guild raid zones should drop fabled gear equal to the raid loot tables in labs etc.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>Raiders can not have it both ways - you want the best gear, then you pay to repair it.</STRONG> </FONT>Here is a suggestion - DONT equip fabled gear - raid in Legendary/mastercrafted gear - problem of repair costs solved.</P> <P>But wait you say " but we need the fabled gear for the raid zones" - Then pay for the expensive repairs. "oh but I dont want to farm plat" - great then dont and go naked. I want Master spells and better gear, my choices are farm the zones where it drops or farm plat to pay for the gear (if availble on the broker). " Oh but I dont want to farm plat, just give me the full fabled gear" -<STRONG>  Do you think I enjoy farming plat and green named?</STRONG> No I do not, but this is the only way to get cash quickly as I am usually spending 10 plat everytime I have it on a master or gear upgrade.</P> <P>The bottom line is raiders can not have it both ways, you want the best gear, and you dont want non-raiders to get the gear you are wearing, but you do not want to maintain the gear. Give me a break - full fabled raiders can farm plat easily compared with a legendary of same class with no change to the loot table rates - so you can kill faster and get more loot.</P> <P>I am sticking this thread for the next time the gear arguement comes up ( every couple of weeks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I dont see any problem paying more to repair fabled gear over treasured or Crafted.  It should be more expensive.  But then again IMO it shouldnt damage at the same rate as other gear.  <BR>

[Toughone]

Thats pure bs that u make 100p from raiding a month, raid mobs dont drop anything and when they do the leaders take it all for gb funds, so no raider makes money from raiding zones.<div></div>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Toughone wrote:<BR>Thats pure bs that u make 100p from raiding a month, raid mobs dont drop anything and when they do the leaders take it all for gb funds, so no raider makes money from raiding zones.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And what does the guild bank do with the 700k plat just sitting in there? There are only so many repair kits needed in the time given, and most of the regular raiders are already all mastered out. Where do you think that money goes, when people sell loot rights to an item? Into this huge guild bank pot of cash that never gets spent?</P> <P>No, there are quite a few guilds that suppliment its raiders with a cut of the guild bank profits, based on raid% for the month. If you raid alot, you will get a bigger peice of the pie. That way the raider can not only afford their repairs, but are able to fund their own master spells for the ones they don't have, and for any potions, poisons, food, drink or totems that they are particularly fond of.</P>

[Wrytched]

<P>Some guilds take the "rotting junk" and sell it for 20-60 platnium.  In some cases, where items are no-drop, they sell "loot rights," and allow others to zone in and collect their garbage.</P> <P>That money adds up rather quickly.  Guild banks with excess of 500 plat are not uncommon.   I've never heard of them dividing the money up among players (except in EQ1 where a few leaders in the guild were selling platnium on player auctions).  Usually, the guild purchases the masters it needs for the players and allows them to spend DKP on the master in return.  (If the spell has raid benefit, they'll usually give it to the player who needs it.)</P> <P>Repair costs are the ONLY penalty to death.  Once you've reached level 70  (knowing full well that the November expansion doesn't increase the level cap) you're safe.  AAs max out very quickly while raiding, exploring, or doing quests.  It's silly that people whine and complain about repair bills of 1 pp.  </P>

[Terabethia]

<DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>First of all, if you manage to make 100 plat a month while raiding... I want to join your guild! You get much higher payouts than we do!! Yes, most raid guilds have a large bank of plat. And yes, most raid guilds give their members a monthly payout, generally based on raid attendance. My guild does this, as well. But it's not even close to 100pp a month. Heck, the most I have ever gotten is about 18pp. And no... it did not cover a months worth of repairs and character maintaince.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>Again... you people are missing the point. No one EVER said that that we wanted to pay the same for our repairs that treasured or legendary. I understand completely that better gear = higher repair cost. But it was NOT balanced. It is not scale accordling. If legandary costs twice as much as treasured, and treasured costs twice as much as crafted and so on... why does Fabled cost 5 time as much as legendary?? It does not scale correctly, and SoE agreed and finally changed it. We are still paying more than the legendary costs, but it's not so much more now.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>We already have your so-called Risk vs. Reward. The risk is that raids take on tougher mobs and die quite a bit, expecially when you are testing new content. And it is a whole lot harder to recover from mistakes on a raid that it is in a group. The reward is the nice loot. And again, it's not like every member of the raid is even rewarded for every raid. As I said previousaly, in the last 2 months I have only actually taken 4 peices of loot, but I raid 5-6 nights a week, several hours a night. Insanely high and unbalanced repairs costs do not need to be added to our risk, unless you also provide us another reward to go with it. </FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>08-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 PM</span>

[Canel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terabethia wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>First of all, if you manage to make 100 plat a month while raiding... I want to join your guild! You get much higher payouts than we do!! Yes, most raid guilds have a large bank of plat. And yes, most raid guilds give their members a monthly payout, generally based on raid attendance. My guild does this, as well. But it's not even close to 100pp a month. Heck, the most I have ever gotten is about 18pp. And no... it did not cover a months worth of repairs and character maintaince.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>Again... you people are missing the point. No one EVER said that that we wanted to pay the same for our repairs that treasured or legendary. I understand completely that better gear = higher repair cost. But it was NOT balanced. It is not scale accordling. If legandary costs twice as much as treasured, and treasured costs twice as much as crafted and so on... why does Fabled cost 5 time as much as legendary?? It does not scale correctly, and SoE agreed and finally changed it. We are still paying more than the legendary costs, but it's not so much more now.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>We already have your so-called Risk vs. Reward. The risk is that raids take on tougher mobs and die quite a bit, expecially when you are testing new content. And it is a whole lot harder to recover from mistakes on a raid that it is in a group. The reward is the nice loot. And again, it's not like every member of the raid is even rewarded for every raid. As I said previousaly, in the last 2 months I have only actually taken 4 peices of loot, but I raid 5-6 nights a week, several hours a night. Insanely high and unbalanced repairs costs do not need to be added to our risk, unless you also provide us another reward to go with it. </FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Terabethia on <SPAN class=date_text>08-28-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:17 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>How true. I just don't get in hell how so many of the non raidersthat are responding to this post just say "Well-fabled should cost more". Well IT DOES. But just like said before--the scale was immesurably off the trensending cash upping per gear piece. 5 times a legendary repair cost was just not cool. I said it before an ill say it again--this has to be one of the smartest things SoE has ever done. And those who think otherwise--get a reality check<BR>

[Killerbee3000]

raiding never resulted me in any coin other than selling trash gear i replaced with raid loot. do i have a chance to get any trash corpse loot? no, never. do i get any single copper if anything  drops noone wants? no, never. and the last piece of loot i got was back in may (sure, i could have gotten stuff since then but either it was stuff i coudnt use or it had ft1 in return for otherwise  hardcore sucking item) . but  i have to pay my repair bill everyday. coin wise that makes up for a massive loss. sure i could go and group, but hey, groups are hard to find, and so i just rolled a farming class alt to be able to pay for the repairs of my main.<div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Killerbee3000 wrote:raiding never resulted me in any coin other than selling trash gear i replaced with raid loot. do i have a chance to get any trash corpse loot? no, never. do i get any single copper if anything  drops noone wants? no, never.<hr></blockquote>Just what is your guild doing with that money then?

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>Killerbee3000 wrote:raiding never resulted me in any coin other than selling trash gear i replaced with raid loot. do i have a chance to get any trash corpse loot? no, never. do i get any single copper if anything  drops noone wants? no, never.<hr></blockquote>Just what is your guild doing with that money then?<hr></blockquote>filling the guild bank and puting it to no use. </div>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Killerbee3000 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Killerbee3000 wrote:<BR>raiding never resulted me in any coin other than selling trash gear i replaced with raid loot. do i have a chance to get any trash corpse loot? no, never. do i get any single copper if anything  drops noone wants? no, never.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Just what is your guild doing with that money then?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>filling the guild bank and puting it to no use. <BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe you should point them to this thread then? Maybe they haven't really thought about what to do with that money.

[Xerxess]

<div><blockquote><hr>Canel wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Terabethia wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div><font color="#33ccff">First of all, if you manage to make 100 plat a month while raiding... I want to join your guild! You get much higher payouts than we do!! Yes, most raid guilds have a large bank of plat. And yes, most raid guilds give their members a monthly payout, generally based on raid attendance. My guild does this, as well. But it's not even close to 100pp a month. Heck, the most I have ever gotten is about 18pp. And no... it did not cover a months worth of repairs and character maintaince.</font></div> <div><font color="#33ccff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#33ccff">Again... you people are missing the point. No one EVER said that that we wanted to pay the same for our repairs that treasured or legendary. I understand completely that better gear = higher repair cost. But it was NOT balanced. It is not scale accordling. If legandary costs twice as much as treasured, and treasured costs twice as much as crafted and so on... why does Fabled cost 5 time as much as legendary?? It does not scale correctly, and SoE agreed and finally changed it. We are still paying more than the legendary costs, but it's not so much more now.</font></div> <div><font color="#33ccff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#33ccff">We already have your so-called Risk vs. Reward. The risk is that raids take on tougher mobs and die quite a bit, expecially when you are testing new content. And it is a whole lot harder to recover from mistakes on a raid that it is in a group. The reward is the nice loot. And again, it's not like every member of the raid is even rewarded for every raid. As I said previousaly, in the last 2 months I have only actually taken 4 peices of loot, but I raid 5-6 nights a week, several hours a night. Insanely high and unbalanced repairs costs do not need to be added to our risk, unless you also provide us another reward to go with it. </font></div> <p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class="date_text">08-28-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:17 PM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote>How true. I just don't get in hell how so many of the non raidersthat are responding to this post just say "Well-fabled should cost more". Well IT DOES. But just like said before--the scale was immesurably off the trensending cash upping per gear piece. 5 times a legendary repair cost was just not cool. I said it before an ill say it again--this has to be one of the smartest things SoE has ever done. And those who think otherwise--get a reality check<hr></blockquote>We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?I've seen big time raid guilds sell off their excess fabled on the broker its not uncommon and that money has to be going somewhere unless its going straight back to the leader for no one else to use.Though there is nothing else to say about this issue since its going in and nothing we can do about it...</div>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. <FONT color=#ffff33>Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?<BR></FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#33ccff>First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends. I also never said that I am super poor. I have never had to ask anyone for money, and I can cover it. But it gets really tight and raiders are on a very tight buget. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>As for where the cash goes... it goes to guild expenses. That does include paying ALL of our members a monthy payout (which as nice as it would be, it doesn't cover repair costs) and to guild maintaince. If a members needs a spell that is on the broker for some crazy amount, the guild will buy it and charge him DKP (not always the case mind you, there are rules and regulations with this). The guild does provide items to its members, as well. When KoS first launched we had a jeweler make full sets of resist jewlery for everyone and was paid by the guild bank. Those sorts of things. It has nothing to do with hording up money to be the #1 wealthiest guild. That's just silly, expecially since that number is also taking into account the amount of plat it's members have!</FONT> </P><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[Trynnus1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terabethia wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. <FONT color=#ffff33>Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?<BR></FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#33ccff>First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. <STRONG><FONT color=#cc0066>I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night.</FONT></STRONG> Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends. I also never said that I am super poor. I have never had to ask anyone for money, and I can cover it. But it gets really tight and raiders are on a very tight buget. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>As for where the cash goes... it goes to guild expenses. That does include paying ALL of our members a monthy payout (which as nice as it would be, it doesn't cover repair costs) and to guild maintaince. If a members needs a spell that is on the broker for some crazy amount, the guild will buy it and charge him DKP (not always the case mind you, there are rules and regulations with this). The guild does provide items to its members, as well. When KoS first launched we had a jeweler make full sets of resist jewlery for everyone and was paid by the guild bank. Those sorts of things. It has nothing to do with hording up money to be the #1 wealthiest guild. That's just silly, expecially since that number is also taking into account the amount of plat it's members have!</FONT> </P> <P>Message Edited by Terabethia on <SPAN class=date_text>08-30-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:28 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This statement is the point - you choose to raid only. I had the same arguement with a RLF who is a raider. You can choose not raid one night (if you really Raid 7 days a week I would be very surprised). It comes down to choices by everyone that plays. I choose not to raid because <STRONG>I dont like it</STRONG>, but I do enjoy dungeon crawling and farming for loot. On one occasion, I purchased loot rights for a legendary item from labs, I am willing to pay the current repair costs on it.</P> <P>I feel this is a balance issue as less money will be coming out of the economy and staying in the hands of the end-game raiders - the toons that do need the master spells and fabled gear - there by making it tough for me to buy them off the broker if even there.</P> <P>I understand your position, but call it by what is truely is: "Choice".  You choose to raid only and SOE should make it cheaper for repairs bills.  That is what you are say essentially.<BR></P>

[thorvang]

<blockquote><hr>Sanju wrote:For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong.<div></div><hr></blockquote>so, your guild is raiding to equip your server's population?

[Xerxess]

<div><blockquote><hr>thorvang wrote:<blockquote><hr>Sanju wrote:For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong.<div></div><hr></blockquote>so, your guild is raiding to equip your server's population?<hr></blockquote>Sure...they equip everyone by selling Fabled gear on the broker for 20pp-50pp...</div>

[greenmantle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vorlak wrote:<BR> <P>Just remove the menders</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>brilliant love it a moment of genius. Hate repair cost , problem solved. You get  to die 10 times with a piece of equipment , or 20 with legendary and that's it. Hey your armor can only be trampled so many times by a horde of dragons before the mender cant find bits between the patches to fix.  No repair costs at all to worry about.</P> <P>Worried about content too easy and no death penalty post 70. Problem solved, will you really die 26 times trying to find a trick to beating a named when you would blow two months work or would risk v's reward suddenly actually be a concept not a lame phrase thrown at noobs on the board.</P> <P>Or costs a plat to repair, don't die just hang around Qh lagging up the zone trying to look good, oh , guess its too late for that suggestion.</P>

[Leawyn]

I'm in Stasis, not Disso. And yes, I assumed you were anti-Disso, forgive me /bow (no sarcasm... really <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) And FWIW, you have no idea what Sony intends or doesn't intend. Neither do I. The fact that selling loot rights has been around since EQ1, and Sony took no pains to try to "fix" it in EQ2 (as they did fix many of the tools in EQ1 that were used to exploit and bypass content, like levitation, corpse summons and dragging corpses) leads me to believe they probably knew it was being done, and felt it was OK to do (as in, not an exploit). Again I can neither confirm nor deny that, as I'm not a dev and don't pretend to know any of them.

[thorvang]

funny part: it hasn't been before lu2 or 3 when they changed nearly all gear to "attunable". before this change you were free to use and trade nearly all items. some quest items had been set to attunable and i guess your newbie gear has been no trade ever since.and even with the change for every single piece of gear needed to be attuned there hasn't been one single no trade raid drop in vanilla. those came with the splitpaw adventure pack.so, what is this? to me it seems the only purpose of no trade is to not make specific items available to players that doesn't bought the according expansions.of course this makes no sense since someone without kos can't reach the levels needed to equip t7 gear...

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Trynnus1 wrote: <P>This statement is the point - you choose to raid only. I had the same arguement with a RLF who is a raider. You can choose not raid one night (if you really Raid 7 days a week I would be very surprised). It comes down to choices by everyone that plays. I choose not to raid because <STRONG>I dont like it</STRONG>, but I do enjoy dungeon crawling and farming for loot. On one occasion, I purchased loot rights for a legendary item from labs, I am willing to pay the current repair costs on it.</P> <P>I feel this is a balance issue as less money will be coming out of the economy and staying in the hands of the end-game raiders - the toons that do need the master spells and fabled gear - there by making it tough for me to buy them off the broker if even there.</P> <P>I understand your position, but call it by what is truely is: "Choice".  You choose to raid only and SOE should make it cheaper for repairs bills.  That is what you are say essentially.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Gosh, barely read a word I said, huh? I raid approx. 5 nights a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. The rest of my time is spent for ME. ME to spend time OUTSIDE the game. There is more to life that EQ, ya know? However, when I am logged in, it's to raid. Yes, this is my choice, but apparently you are not in a raid guild or you would understand. If you're in a raiding guild, and you are logged in (during raid times mind you), you are there to RAID. Nothing else. I can't just tell my guild "Sorry guys, I want to go play in HoF/Nek 3/Whatever, enjoy your raid". I am in the guild to raid. It's about the same as telling my boss "Sorry, I know I am here at my desk, but I am not going to do any work, I am just going to watch this movie." It just won't fly. Yes, it's a choice I make, but there are not as many choices as you make it out to be. I can be in a hardcore raiding guild and do what I enjoy most in this game, and with that choice means that I have to use my own time to do other things. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>As for money staying in the hands of raiders, well... go back and read my last posts and many others. WE ARE NOT THE RICHEST! We just are not. The raiders that have money earn it the same way as the non raiders. Only difference is, they have time to do both. A lot of people don't. We don't make money raiding, we make money farming instances like everyone else does. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>People are really getting off topic here anyway. First of all, we don't even know what the new repair costs are. And second, you act like we are saying we don't want to pay anything. That's not the case. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to repair, or to pay more because I am wearing fabled gear. It's because it was not scaled correctly. I know I should pay more, and I fully expect to continue to pay more for fabled than for legendary gear. I just don't think it should be 5x more. And again... the people who matter (ie. DEVS) agreed. The only people who are here argueing are the casual players that don't raid, and the people who have tons of plat to blow. So stop being bitter, it's not like this even effects you. You will still have the same amount of cash, and you will still be able to obtain the same amount of gear. Guilds are not going to suddently stop selling loot, or loot rights I guess, because we are paying less. Nothing will change except repair costs will finally scale approperately and be far more fair.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>08-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:41 AM</span>

[Echgar]

Let's stay on topic please and avoid bringing guild drama into the discussion please. <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[Sanju]

<div></div><div><b>[Edited out comments addressing a post no longer present in this thread.]</b>I am happy that a change that you like is being implemented. Really, I am.  I do disagree that it was a very big issue. Personally, I make money hand over fist by raiding, and raiding only. 95% of the time I am online as my main, I'm raiding. 5% of the time I'm online as Angua, I'm repairing, buying arrows, checking the broker for the ONE master spell I still need, or I'm travelling to a raid zone. My sole income is from raiding.I do understand that not everyone can be in the same situation. We are a very small, but very successful raiding guild. That means less deaths (Matron notwitstanding), less arrows/poisons used (since we kill very fast), and much much more income (everyone in guild is pretty much fully Fabled, and has all of their Master spells. About 90% of the items we get from raiding are sold (either to a member's alt (yes, we sell to alts for platinum -- only mains can use dkp), on the broker, to Merchant Novak, or to another player, etc.). At the end of the month, all of the plat that we've made is distributed to the guild members (weighted by attendance). It works very well for us, but may not work as well for other guilds.An inconsequntial change for me, may be huge to someone else, so grats. Glad you're getting some relief.[EDIT for those who don't believe that it's possible to make 100p+ per month raiding. This is my plat split that I just got in the mail. The high was over 126p.]<img src="http://i1.tinypic.com/27xnngx.jpg"><img src="http://i5.tinypic.com/27xnojt.jpg"></div><p>Message Edited by Sanju on <span class="date_text">08-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:16 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sanju on <span class=date_text>09-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:13 PM</span>

[JoarAddam]

<DIV>Since the non raiders have a hard time reading, I'll say this again, really big and bold</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ff0000 size=6>IT WILL STILL COST MORE TO REPAIR FABLED THAN TO REPAIR ANY OTHER ARMOR</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ff0000 size=6></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>  We're not saying "ooh, since we're in fabled, we shouldn't have to pay any repair cost.  We're also not saying that it should cost less than any other gear.  we're fine with paying more for fabled than with legendary.  All the Devs are doing, and I think it's right, is changing <STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>HOW MUCH MORE</FONT></EM></STRONG> we have to pay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The current rate is 4X more than a legendary piece.  That's too high.  The gear certainly isn't 4X better than legendary.</DIV>

[Barx]

I really like the reduced cost of repairing fabled.It won't make a huge difference IMHO for hard-core raiders that make a lot of money. It probably won't make a huge difference for any kind of hard core raider.But where it makes a BIG difference is for raiders like me. I raid part-time with a group of folks that change (its an open raiding alliance). We do tough stuff, but yeah we're not on par with a hardcore guild, because we're not a hardcore guild (its not a guild at all...). We're just a bunch of folks who want to see things we wouldn't see otherwise, to be able to say "Yep, I was there, I killed that guy" and maybe get a little loot out of it.Since we're not so 'uber' and such, it can cost us a lot to repair. Even having only a couple of fabled pieces (3) and mostly legendary, it still costs me 20-30g for a full repair. Now thats now a whole platinum, but when you figure that I need a full repair every raid or 2, and every now and then just from regular adventuring, and I don't get any stipend or profits from the raid beyond gear, those costs start adding up quick.But now, I'll be able to have a little bit more money for other things. I'll have that extra bit of cash to purchase that Master I. No one loses with this change. Sure, a money-sink just got smaller. But to the folks with *massive* (I'm talking hundreds of platinum) amounts of wealth, it's not going to make a difference -- they can still spend or save however they want. But us folks who get a couple fabled pieces, us folks that only play casually but still want to see the endgame, we get a break.<div></div>

[JoarAddam]

<img src="http://www.drychnath.com/phpbb2/files/untitled_1_186.jpg">yay for all the weapon and shield switches and resist gear!...  thank god i didn't go into backup<div></div>

[Margen]

<P>I really have no idea why some people are complaining about this.</P> <P>1) fabled will still cost more to repair then other types, just not as much.  My guess is it will be twice as much as legendary vs 4 times now.</P> <P>2) not every raider is rich, I am a fully fabled SK with 9PP in my bank acount.</P> <P>3) A tough night of raiding can produce 80 GP repair bills, raiding 5 nights a week that gets expensive.</P> <P>4)  Some people like farming some don't and some classes are not well suited for farming (Templers come to mind).  Plus some raiders don't have the time to do massive amounts of farming.</P> <P>5) While some guilds are stupidly rich, others aren't, our guild bank pays for repair kits, paying crafting cost for posions, food and potions, and helping guildies pay half the cost on masters for their characters.</P> <P>6) This will not in any way hurt the non-raiding community ... they can still do their part of the game and have fun doing it, while us raiders will do our part.</P> <P>Some of the complaints may have a bit of validity (possibly slight bump in market prices on some items), most of the compaints are silly or some (not naming names) are just trying to start an argument because their little minds think its entertainment.</P> <P> </P>

[Canel]

<DIV>~_~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you know--This post has been going for so long--can anyone exactly say [Removed for Content] this post was started as (or why the ppl in non fabled are moaning) about the fabled repair cost lowerment?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every night I average 50-75gold a night. Times taht by 5 nights. Thats 2.5pp + a raiding week. That leaves only two days to farm like hell (if you're not farming named) to get off mob vendor junk to sell back. I average maybe a plat a day over the weekend (2 days) and if I'm lucky I'll make just enough to cover the last weeks worth of expences. Then I have to do this process all over again for the next week. I acknoledge that selling named loot off the vendor is very effeciant tho. And those who do it do bring in alot of cash.</DIV> <DIV>Thats all </DIV>

[Triste-Lune]

i m neither for or against this change. i m poor considering the rest of my guil, i m not fully fabled (missing helm gauntlet shield belt earing 2rings) and a deathtole raid costing me about 1 plat+ (yeah we wipe a lot but we have a loto running on who deliver the finishing on MT when eye is charming him), and a regular HoS (cost me like 25~50gold depending on our luck with the 25K hits :p + gambler try every week), we dont wipe nor have much death on other instance vyemm, lyceum,crab,roost and on cotestedI never had issue paying my repairs and i m only logging to raid during the week and playing like 2 hours before raid during week end to do instance and help other on claymore and stuff, i m only lvl 9 crafter and dont get my repair bill paid by guild yet.I dont see any issue in paying the current repair cost. I understand fabled costing more to repair, but it should deteriorrate maybe at a slower (like the heritage)

[Cowdenic]

I am all for keeping fabled raid gear 4-5 times more expensive to repair then legendary. Please just make my gear 4 to 5 times better than said legendary. Think of it, 4 times the stats resists and mitigation. WOOT.

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG><BR>[EDIT for those who don't believe that it's possible to make 100p+ per month raiding. This is my plat split that I just got in the mail. The high was over 126p.]<BR><BR><IMG src="http://i1.tinypic.com/27xnngx.jpg"><BR><IMG src="http://i5.tinypic.com/27xnojt.jpg"><BR><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>OMG, you are my Hero! Will you marry me?? My mom always told me I should marry rich...  :smileywink:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Seriousaly, that is amazing and really nice. All DKP systems, and guild systems, are different. As I said, our guild does a payout as well, but it's not a full wipe of the guild bank. I guess we just have too many members to do such a thing. I certaintly manage to make due, I have never been so poor that I couldn't pay my repairs. But I am not rich, and I have to very carefully plan my spending, expecially at the start of new expansions that had level increases so I could upgrade my character. I will still have some of that concern, but maybe it won't be quite as tight now. </FONT></P>

[Findara]

Selling items is an option for the majority of the guilds, but not every one can sell items.  What about thoes that buy your gear.  Its fabled and they would have had to spend more money to get fixed the items they baught from you.  Now they will have more money to buy more items.I just wish there was people like that on pvp servers... Darn exile <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>Findarato wrote:Selling items is an option for the majority of the guilds, but not every one can sell items.  What about thoes that buy your gear.  Its fabled and they would have had to spend more money to get fixed the items they baught from you.  Now they will have more money to buy more items.I just wish there was people like that on pvp servers... Darn exile <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr>exaclty, not every guild sells the loot they dont need, im in a guild that would rather give one of those stupid two handers to a lvl 1 alt of someone in the guild for dkp than selling it.</blockquote></div>

[JoarAddam]

<DIV>Yay, i got a decrease of almost 5g per death.  </DIV>

[Canel]

<DIV>hehe-only 32g for a full fabled set at 0% AND backupgear at 70%!!!!!</DIV>

[Poetelia]

<P><STRONG>Terabethia</STRONG> posted:</P> <P>"<FONT color=#33ccff>First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends.</FONT>"<BR></P> <P>and also</P> <P>"<FONT color=#33ccff>Gosh, barely read a word I said, huh? I raid approx. 5 nights a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. The rest of my time is spent for ME. ME to spend time OUTSIDE the game. There is more to life that EQ, ya know? However, when I am logged in, it's to raid. Yes, this is my choice, but apparently you are not in a raid guild or you would understand. If you're in a raiding guild, and you are logged in (during raid times mind you), you are there to RAID. Nothing else</FONT>"</P> <P>As someone said earlier, Im gonna copy these posts to use them on the next raider-vs-nonraider equipment discussion. Im gonna have the big pleasure of using the ooh soo looved raider typical quote: "You want fabled, you have to work for it. If youre casual and have a limited time online (in this case 4 hours) you cant have the same equipment as a hardcore player that devotes more time and effort (performing boring farming tasks) at the game. Raider or not." :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>And regarding the issue at hand, I am one of the people thinking that death penalties in this game are extremely mild and the repair bill penalty cant adequately substitute the sting death should have. If we dont have shards, lost exp and other drawbacks as deterrents, maybe we should think of something else.</P> <P>I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured.</P> <P>This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty.</P> <P>My 2 cp</P> <P>Poetelia Roseknight</P> <P>Paladin of Qeynos</P> <P><BR> </P><p>Message Edited by Poetelia on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:17 AM</span>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poetelia wrote:<BR> <P>I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured.</P> <P>This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty.</P> <P>Message Edited by Poetelia on <SPAN class=date_text>09-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:17 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#33ccff>Then you would no longer have a game to play, as it would crash and burn. If you had to replace your gear every X numbers of deaths, it would get old, FAST. For everyone, including you. In fact, one night of raiding new content would probably kill your gear. No one wants to spend the months it takes to gear themselves everytime they die a few times. Not to mention quested items that you can never get again. If they took away my prismatic/godking/claymore, I would be gone forever. Do this and say goodbye to EverQuest.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>There is a balance between making death mean something and making it fair for everyone. I wouldn't even have minded if they kept the fabled costs the way they were and raised the rest of them. As long as it was balanced, doesn't matter to me.  </FONT></P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:58 AM</span>

[Gorhauth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Poetelia wrote:<div></div> <div></div><p>I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured.</p> <p>This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty.</p><hr></blockquote>That would be the quickest way possible to kill off this game.  We've cleared Labs every week for months and still haven't seen the Spaulders drop.  You want to [Removed for Content] a tank off?  Have them farm that crap from months and then take their reward away from them.Decaying stuff worked fine in SWG, but that was because it was a game devoid of content that centered around player interaction, to include crafting.  There was almost nothing that dropped (only one piece that I remember was a drop that was required for a piece of armor).  If it decayed, you visited a crafter and got a new piece made or repaired.  That wouldn't even come close to working in this game.</div>

[Poetelia]

<P>I dont think it would be the end of the game. And obviously it wouldnt decay in a night of raiding as Terabethia seems to suggest. As is evident, Im not suggesting to keep the 10 charges equipment have now. Maybe 150 or 200 charges could be a fair number for a fabled, maybe more. That would have to be studied.</P> <P>Death must have a sting for everyone. Right now, fabled equipped players (mainly all-time raiders) are the ones facing the harshest penalty. Somehow I dont think its fair keeping just a monetary penalty. And I dont think it would be the end of the game. If the charges system is well thought out, not every piece of equipment would eventually break, as upgrades with expansions could be available and people would merely be more careful about dying. In the end, its all this is about.</P> <P>My proposal is not that terrible.</P> <P>Poetelia Roseknight</P> <P>Paladin of Qeynos</P>

[nadym]

<P>Even if you look at it in from a Roleplay point of view, the better the equipment you have the more you have to pay. Its not the same to repair a "fabled" discovery shuttle than repair a "ford" car.</P> <P> </P> <P>cheers</P>

[Terabethia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nadym wrote:<BR> <P>Even if you look at it in from a Roleplay point of view, the better the equipment you have the more you have to pay. Its not the same to repair a "fabled" discovery shuttle than repair a "ford" car.</P> <P>cheers<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Which is still the case, we were and still are paying more than it costs for legendary. So we are all set on the repair cost arguement. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I never said I didn't agree with making a harsher death penalty, I just don't think forcing us to pay an unbalanced repair bill is the correct way to go. I didn't mind shards, and I wouldn't care if they put them back in. Heck, I didn't even really mind the corpse's from EQ1. Yes, they are nothing more than time sinks, but I didn't mind them.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>Problem is, as a raider, you are GOING to die! It's a fact of your game life. It's not like we can just say "You know what, we are not going to raid this mob because we will die several times and I can't risk the gear". Guilds would never get anywhere if that were the case. It would basically kill the raiding aspect of the game for many people. Even the "Top Guilds" worldwide are not perfect. Expecially with new content, when you are testing it out and don't know what to do. You are going to die, tons of times, before you kill a mob for the first time. Are we supposed to stop testing content and wait until it's all green before we try anything out? Take the turtle dragon in the expansion pack for example. Guilds wiped to this mob hours a night over several weeks before he was killed. There are still many guilds that haven't killed it at all. If, as suggested, gear were to break after even 150-200 deaths, that's still not enough. It means that after doing just this one mob, most every guild would have lost all of it's armor. Won't work, no way, no how. Not when the only good items in the game require you to work so hard to get them. </FONT></P>

[Poetelia]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terabethia wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#33ccff> Won't work, no way, no how. Not when the only good items in the game require you to work so hard to get them. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With all due respect, I dont think playing 4 hours a day, an average of 5 days a week  is working so hard to get them. I dont play now half as much as I used to when I was a hardcore EQ1 raider, but even so, if I play the game, I play a lot more than that and very rarely a day comes back without logging in. I dont like soloing and try to avoid it, but I know soloers that play 8 hours a day or more and that everyday they die like 8 or more times because they like to push the limits.</P> <P>And about the deaths on raids, well, been there done that. But you know, as I know, that the big death fest happens the first few times the guild takes the target, until tactic is apparent and target is overcome, as you have pointed out. And even so, it is only especially bad if your guild is  the first or second trying it. After that the tactics are announced on guild sites and spoilers are spread, and the guilds know what to do so the deaths are less.</P> <P>After that, the target is put in farm status and the deaths of a night of play are not more than any other player´s, grouper or soloer. The danger of the raider then is just the chance to be overcome by boredom night after night.</P> <P>Death should have a sting. You prefer to have monetary penalty, but dont want this penalty to be too harsh. I respect your opinion, but I have mine. And the corpse runs are not the answer in my humble point of view. As you pointed out, theyre just time sinks, and the elite players are anyway not affected by them.</P> <P>Probably the only advantage of the repair penalty dependant on quality of equipment is that it tends to affect more the powerful than the poor. We all know that death in EQ1 represented no more than the inconvinience of having to try again for a raid. 99% rezzes and rezz sticks saw to that. The ones that really suffered greatly were the poor average joes that were crammed with their pick up group in the middle of Sebilis with no one around to help.</P> <P>Poetelia Roseknight</P> <P>Paladin of Qeynos</P>

[Magic]

<P>I save money on repair costs by removing all gear before going somewhere for the first time or fighting a new mob type.</P> <P>On one hand, it makes sense to have damaged gear.  You die because your gear failed you.  It should be broken at that point.  On the other hand, since this game is not about real life, and raids have hundreds of deaths, why not eliminate repairs altogether?  I vote for getting rid of repairs.</P> <P>Lastly, instead of death, why not just put us in a timed coma so that we can revive in place rather than at a revive tent?  Make the encounter break, however, so that the mobs go back to their normal positions.</P><p>Message Edited by Aljola on <span class=date_text>09-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

[Traxor789]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terabethia wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Items ***</FONT></STRONG> <DIV><BR>- Repair costs on Fabled items has been reduced significantly. Previously, they cost four times as much as Legendary items to repair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTYTY</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>did i mention?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you<3</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I used to spend around 17 gold a death , and its cloth! - now its a resonably like 7 gold. or a little less . I used to be broke, getting money off the guild just to repair and yes i do farm. and raid like 45 hrs a week. So ...........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TY</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>