Anyone know if SOE has any plans to un-nerf rangers?

[Akie]

<DIV>I recently betrayed an Assassin into a Ranger on a PvP server. Man there sure was a big diff in DPS - I even upgraded some of my gear and I did half the DPS I did as an Assassin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, my question is this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassins have insane DPS with their CA's. They have the ability to transfer hate to the tank, giving them even more value in a raid over a ranger. Rangers just have that stupid hawk, not even as close to as valuable as the hate transfer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers have one big CA that takes forever to cast (making it almost useless in PvP and on a raid, since the casting time pretty much will take you off the parse DPS wise and so far being that either I'm seen before it goes off in PvP, or they have moved and are out of range) Granted it has a stun and a knock back, which is cool, it still does way less damage than Decap and takes 10x longer to cast making it almost worthless and little used other than as a novelty for trying to drop a big hit now and then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's the big problem - On pvp servers this basically cuts Qeynos DPS in half on a raid making it MUCH harder for Qeynos to ever raid any end game stuff, since rangers are suppose to be the high  DPS scout for the Q side.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would be really nice to know if SOE has any plans to fix this either world wide, or at least on the PvP servers so Qeynos can catch up to FP content wise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Akient on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:37 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Akient on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:38 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:41 AM</span>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's the big problem - On pvp servers this basically cuts Qeynos DPS in half on a raid making it MUCH harder for Qeynos to ever raid any end game stuff, since rangers are suppose to be the high  DPS scout for the Q side.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would be really nice to know if SOE has any plans to fix this either world wide, or at least on the PvP servers so Qeynos can catch up to FP content wise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Being from PvE, I never really considered how our DPS would affect Qeynos guilds in PvP. That kinda sucks, being stuck in that situation. Guess swashies get to be the uber DPS scout for Qeynos. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Judist]

<P>If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS.</P><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:25 AM</span>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers have one big CA that takes forever to cast (making it almost useless in PvP and on a raid, since the casting time pretty much will take you off the parse DPS wise and so far being that either I'm seen before it goes off in PvP, <STRONG>or they have moved and are out of range</STRONG>) Granted it has a stun and a knock back, which is cool, it still does way less damage than Decap and takes 10x longer to cast making it almost worthless and little used other than as a novelty for trying to drop a big hit now and then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>the way casting ranged CAs was changed a little while back. once you start casting the mob can move up to 2.5 times the distance of the CA and still be in ranged. are you attacking something running past you?<BR>

[Akie]

<P>This is in PvP - so, it must be different - typically two things will happen:</P> <P>1) I'll get in range of someone, they'll stand there for a few sec's and run off - then while SS is casting since it takes so long, they're out of range.</P> <P>2) They other likely thing to happen is that I'll be spotted and get hit while casting in PvP because of the long cast time, which will cancel the shot since I'm no longer stealthed.</P> <P>Basically this makes this CA almost useless against anyone in PvP ( that's not AFK ). It makes it useless in PvE because the long cast time pulls away from your DPS. I really don't understand why our top damage CA should take 3 years to cast. It already does significantly less damage than decap does. Decap casts really fast.</P> <P>It seems like the guy in charge of developing scouts has a big time assassin biast.</P>

[Akie]

<DIV>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is not the first ranger I've played. The first level 70 ranger, sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a decent Legendary level 64 bow that has a DPS rating of 78.9 - I parse pretty low if I'm burning CA's or just using Honed / Instinct and auto'ing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The purpose of this thread is to say that ranger CA's have issues that need fixing. CA's should be the source of our most damage, that's the way the game was designed. I think most any ranger that does endgame would agree that our DPS should be way higher. Most decent guilds don't want rangers because they have much less use than an assassin at this point. Every class should be able to contribute or bring something unique and usefull to a raid, currently rangers are really lacking this. If you're on a PvP server, Qeynos side, you can forget about every being able to clear DT or anything hard. Sony definately hasn't provided Qeynos with enough DPS, especially in a situation like this.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Akient on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:32 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Akient on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:35 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:36 AM</span>

[Davcre]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>This is in PvP - so, it must be different - typically two things will happen:</P> <P>1) I'll get in range of someone, they'll stand there for a few sec's and run off - then while SS is casting since it takes so long, they're out of range.</P> <P>2) They other likely thing to happen is that I'll be spotted and get hit while casting in PvP because of the long cast time, which will cancel the shot since I'm no longer stealthed.</P> <P>Basically this makes this CA almost useless against anyone in PvP ( that's not AFK ). It makes it useless in PvE because the long cast time pulls away from your DPS. I really don't understand why our top damage CA should take 3 years to cast. It already does significantly less damage than decap does. Decap casts really fast.</P> <P>It seems like the guy in charge of developing scouts has a big time assassin biast.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>i agree...and the only thing that i can ever come up with is that this the price we pay for being able to attack from such long distances</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it sucks how fast other classes can get off their big attacks, and most of them while moving no less...  :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think the answer is heading up certain AA lines to "fix" a class that, in all honesty, doesn't seem to be working the same as the other classes (ie, auto attack being main DPS)</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[Sirlutt]

i am guessing there was a really really really really good reason you saw fit to use the "fix" they put in the game for Ranger DPs ... on your assassin ?.. it wasnt meant for that man .. betrayal was meant to "fix" Rangers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[LoreLady]

<blockquote><hr>BeatinGuts wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS.</p><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class="date_text">09-18-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:25 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ummm.. Bow dps = melee dps untill you get the summon ammo bows... and those dont come out till you start raiding, this player obviesly started playing a ranger and isent at raidlevel yet.. And yes - assassins have a large diffrence in dps CA wise than rangers.. We are just playing catchup while we are raiding <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<div></div>

[Akie]

<P> </P> <P>Previous Previous comment:</P> <P>My belief is that every class should be balanced and have something unique to contribute or some abilites to make them just as much saught after for raids as the next class. Yeah yeah, perfect world and all that. I've played most classes in raids at the level 70 level and rangers are just one that I've noticed that need the most fixing...</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Akient on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:21 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:27 AM</span>

[Raahl]

<DIV>I don't PvP and have not raided with my Ranger yet, so my view is probably very different from a PvP'er or Raid Ranger..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have always been very happy with my DPS as a ranger and I'm not even up to the nice raid equipment.   Perhaps the reason I'm happy is because I don't parse, so I never try and compare myself to other classes.</DIV>

[TwistedFaith]

Ranger DPS is fine in groups, just that when you get to the endgame (raids) then you really begin to see huge flaws in the class.We have no utlity and our dps in my opinion is weak compared to Assasins and Rogues who all offer a LOT more to the raid than a ranger can at present.Dont fight it, SoE will fix rangers if they see fit but honestly us not doing the DPS we are supposed to be doing on raids isnt a game breaking issue for them so I have serious doubts wether anything worthwhile will be done.I am curious about the new class specific AA lines especially the Rogue lines. If they continue to offer rogues ubah utlity and essential AA skills then there will be little point to ever take a ranger on a raid.

[Teksun]

Well said Valley.Until we get our Ranger only AA's there's no telling whether we will be 'fixed' or not. I won't hold my breath, but I sure won't wuit either. Even if we get the shaft again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Davcre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR>Well said Valley.<BR><BR>Until we get our Ranger only AA's there's no telling whether we will be 'fixed' or not. I won't hold my breath, but I sure won't wuit either. Even if we get the shaft again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>and I've got to toss it out again, we shouldn't have to rely on AA lines to fix the class....DPS being what it should be or not aside, the fact the auto attacks offer a better DPS than CAs seems to be out of line with every other class in the game<BR>

[Teksun]

I agree Dav, but I also know that it 'ain't gonna happen'. Dev's think we are fine. So be it. I just hope that we get a little more 'something' with the aa's. It's our only hope Obi Wan.<div></div>

[Gareorn]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone know if SOE has any plans to un-nerf rangers?</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Since they have stated that they think we are where we are suppose to be.  I'll have to answer the question with a no.  I don't think they have any plans to fix Rangers.</P>

[Davcre]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR> It's our only hope Obi Wan.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>:smileysurprised:<BR></DIV>

[Akie]

<P>A simple parse would show that we're not where we're suppose to be. If every class should have an equal benefit to a raid or a group, tell me what a ranger can do that an assassin can't do better? That is in no way fair. An assassin should have something he can do that's valuable to a raid or a group and a ranger should have something he can do just as valuable. The DPS of an Assassin and a ranger should be identical. Assassin would do his biggest damage close, ranger at range, that's the only difference there should be.</P> <P>I think it's obvious that two different devs were in charge of each class, too bad we got the one that likes to put long delays and low damage on our CA's.</P>

[Jay]

<DIV>Preachin' to the choir, my man. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR>I agree Dav, but I also know that it 'ain't gonna happen'. Dev's think we are fine. So be it. I just hope that we get a little more 'something' with the aa's. It's our only hope Obi Wan.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Heck the Dev's thought Guardians were fine, but in KoS made them more viable and fun to play via the AA's.  So don't give up.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Akient wrote:<div></div> <p>A simple parse would show that we're not where we're suppose to be. If every class should have an equal benefit to a raid or a group, tell me what a ranger can do that an assassin can't do better? That is in no way fair. An assassin should have something he can do that's valuable to a raid or a group and a ranger should have something he can do just as valuable. The DPS of an Assassin and a ranger should be identical. Assassin would do his biggest damage close, ranger at range, that's the only difference there should be.</p> <p>I think it's obvious that two different devs were in charge of each class, too bad we got the one that likes to put long delays and low damage on our CA's.</p><hr></blockquote>With the right equipment, they are pretty similar.  And you guys have the hawk..its supposed to be fixed and be teh awesomesss!</div>

[Akie]

<P>I'm sure an assassin would say that, but the truth is; assassins always stay on top of our DPS regardless of gear - I've seen assassins with crap for gear smoke tricked out rangers without even mashing CA's hard. It's a combination of the fact that their CA's do so much damage along with having very fast casting timers.</P> <P>Ranger CA's = worthless | Long casting times, low damage: just take a look at stream shot, rofl, what a joke, who even uses that, it's worthless. You can get better DPS with a level 30 bow than you can with Stream. It just seems like we  got the window licker of devs when they created ranger CA's.</P> <P>I truely believe, if enough of us complain and keep hounding Sony that rangers need some fixing, something will be done. </P> <P>With the exception of a few people (probably lazy and don't really care and like being middle of the parse so they can go afk without anyone knowing), Rangers need some MAJOR MAJOR upgrades on their CA's.</P> <P>I say we all start some sort of protest of some kind; something that will get the attention of the brass, until they agree to release some tweaks in the next update. I think it's very possible that they're aware some people think there is a problem with rangers, but, never TRUELY have taken a look or payed it much mind. Let's get someone to SERIOUSLY take a look at what we're complaining about. If Sony can't see the problem, let's show it to them. I'm sick of just sucking it up and hoping they do something eventually. Let's do something about it instead of complaining on these forums that the devs probably don't even read!</P> <P> </P> <P>Who's with me?</P>

[Katsugen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>I'm sure an assassin would say that, but the truth is; assassins always stay on top of our DPS regardless of gear - I've seen assassins with crap for gear smoke tricked out rangers without even mashing CA's hard. It's a combination of the fact that their CA's do so much damage along with having very fast casting timers.</P> <P>Ranger CA's = worthless | Long casting times, low damage: just take a look at stream shot, rofl, what a joke, who even uses that, it's worthless. You can get better DPS with a level 30 bow than you can with Stream. It just seems like we  got the window licker of devs when they created ranger CA's.</P> <P>I truely believe, if enough of us complain and keep hounding Sony that rangers need some fixing, something will be done.</P> <P>With the exception of a few people (probably lazy and don't really care and like being middle of the parse so they can go afk without anyone knowing), Rangers need some MAJOR MAJOR upgrades on their CA's.</P> <P>I say we all start some sort of protest of some kind; something that will get the attention of the brass, until they agree to release some tweaks in the next update. I think it's very possible that they're aware some people think there is a problem with rangers, but, never TRUELY have taken a look or payed it much mind. Let's get someone to SERIOUSLY take a look at what we're complaining about. If Sony can't see the problem, let's show it to them. I'm sick of just sucking it up and hoping they do something eventually. Let's do something about it instead of complaining on these forums that the devs probably don't even read!</P> <P> </P> <P>Who's with me?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And how do you propose we do that? I think the problem is that we need help from some of the really highend guilds that have rangers. I don't know if there are that many guilds that are willing to share such data with us. I ask just about every chance I get, but I don't really get responses. Second Dawn has been pretty cool about posting parses, maybe we can get them to do a little test for us. Problem is I know I'd want to see a zone wide parse (maybe DT or HOS) w/ a full raid busting thier butts to top that parse, with a good variety of dps. Problem is that might be too much to ask. All these zones that are on farm status don't always get good turn out, or ppl busting thier butts, they are gonna take who shows up cuz they are so easy now that raid setup doesn't need to be optimized at all to stroll through these zones.</P> <P>-Katsugen</P>

[Jayad]

<P>It seems like those Rangers who parse up pretty high and say things are alright all are using auto-attacks to do it.  CAs being secondary.  OK, let's take that as a moment for being true.  If that's the case, they need to reduce the important of bow DR, ammo, etc. and improve our CAs. </P> <P>I'm not sure what % of the damage is due to using a T8 rare ammo with a T7 fabled bow, but it's ridiculous that this would be the way we're supposed to match up.  And needing haste+dps buffs.</P> <P>I'm not sure I will ever get a nice T7 bow with ANOTHER bow to get T8 rare ammo.  My ranger is no longer my main.  Even if it were, there's only a handful of rangers who can get both of those.  Meanwhile you can be all mastered out and still suck.  Awesome.</P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div> <p>It seems like those Rangers who parse up pretty high and say things are alright all are using auto-attacks to do it.  CAs being secondary.  OK, let's take that as a moment for being true.  If that's the case, they need to reduce the important of bow DR, ammo, etc. and improve our CAs. </p> <p>I'm not sure what % of the damage is due to using a T8 rare ammo with a T7 fabled bow, but it's ridiculous that this would be the way we're supposed to match up.  And needing haste+dps buffs.</p> <p>I'm not sure I will ever get a nice T7 bow with ANOTHER bow to get T8 rare ammo.  My ranger is no longer my main.  Even if it were, there's only a handful of rangers who can get both of those.  Meanwhile you can be all mastered out and still suck.  Awesome.</p><hr></blockquote>Why rediculous ?.. assassins need specific good equipment to be at the top of their game, and good groups aswell..  Grinning Dirk of Horror made my DPs jump quite a bit .. and I need to have as much haste as possible.. being stuck in the MT group I tend to parse only average.. about 900-1300.  I get beat regularly by Brigands, Zerkers and the other DPs classes, including our Ranger who doesnt have her awesome bows yet.  I know when she does she wil be right up on top like she usually is.When I am in a good group with good haste its a diff story, I parse right up with everyone else at 1200-1800.</div>

[Mirdo]

<div></div>I think ridiculous Sirlutt because T8 ammo summoning bows only drop in DT (one relatively rare from Tari) and the Venekor bow is also *quite* a rare drop (from the boss mob of a relatively tricky zone). These are the things that make the biggest difference to our DPS once masters etc are taken care of.GDoH, although a quite rare drop, drops off the first easy *easy* boss in a zone requiring no access - the differences should be immediately apparent.Oh, and one of our highest parsers is our guild Assassin when in our MT grp - he complains when he isn't in there because of buffing. Not sure why your MT grp doesn't allow you the same benefits. Our assassin in the MT grp is hitting upwards of 1.9k single target. Our standard MT grp is no different from the usual - Guard, Defiler, Templar, Warden, Dirge/Coercer/Assassin depending who is on.That's one of the problems trying to wade through the DPS maze - all guilds are structured differently. Our last HoS raid F ex. was a pretty reliable 18-20k raid dps through the zone. That effects the overall DPS score for each toon in the raid.Mirdo.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Mirdo on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:09 AM</span>

[Gerdos]

<P>There's something about this thread that really gets to me.  I've tried to resist posting anything about it, but each time i read through it, it just grates on my nerves.</P> <P>For starters, Akient, i dont agree with any of your posts.  I also read the complaints you make re: PvP mechanics and notice your style of play and see things you should be doing, but don't to counter the problems you encounter.  I would suggest part of the problem is your style of play and how you've setup your AA line.  I would also suggest to <EM>fully understand</EM> <EM>ALL</EM> CA available to you and use them at the appropriate times ... we have some very nice (often neglected) CAs that can really make a big difference in any situation.</P> <P>Secondly, taking parses to show the problem as you describe it, wont help, because that problem doesn't exist.  In every situation, soloing, grouping or raiding .. rangers are still very good to great and are still T1 DPS.   I've got no doubt about that, nor do a few other high end rangers.   Sure, rangers need to work harder then other classes to reach high DPS levels, and our DPS is also more subjective to our equipment and group setup then other classes .. but in my experience, rangers are almost where they need to be.   We need very few, minor changes to bring us to the same level as assassins.  </P> <P><EM>(and even then, only the best assassin players, best equiped and those who put in 100% effort will beat an equivalent ranger)</EM></P> <P>Re: AA lines, they are there to be used in a way that suits an individuals style of play.  There's only 3 realisticly useful AA setups that rangers might use .. each valid.  Improve our already existing strengths, overcome our existing weaknesses, or a balance between the 2.  I would suggest you rethink your AA setup based on your complaints.</P> <P>Rangers were nerfed badly with the last expansion, but minor fixes since then brought us back to T1 a long time ago.  There's simply too much evidence against your arguments to suggest rangers are still nerfed, need major changes and are not T1 DPS.</P><p>Message Edited by Gerdos on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[LoreLady]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Gerdos wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>There's something about this thread that really gets to me.  I've tried to resist posting anything about it, but each time i read through it, it just grates on my nerves.</p> <p>For starters, Akient, i dont agree with any of your posts.  I also read the complaints you make re: PvP mechanics and notice your style of play and see things you should be doing, but don't to counter the problems you encounter.  I would suggest part of the problem is your style of play and how you've setup your AA line.  I would also suggest to <em>fully understand</em> <em>ALL</em> CA available to you and use them at the appropriate times ... we have some very nice (often neglected) CAs that can really make a big difference in any situation.</p> <p>Secondly, taking parses to show the problem as you describe it, wont help, because that problem doesn't exist.  In every situation, soloing, grouping or raiding .. rangers are still very good to great and are still T1 DPS.   I've got no doubt about that, nor do a few other high end rangers.   Sure, rangers need to work harder then other classes to reach high DPS levels, and our DPS is also more subjective to our equipment and group setup then other classes .. but in my experience, rangers are almost where they need to be.   We need very few, minor changes to bring us to the same level as assassins.  </p> <p><em>(and even then, only the best assassin players, best equiped and those who put in 100% effort will beat an equivalent ranger)</em></p> <p>Re: AA lines, they are there to be used in a way that suits an individuals style of play.  There's only 3 realisticly useful AA setups that rangers might use .. each valid.  Improve our already existing strengths, overcome our existing weaknesses, or a balance between the 2.  I would suggest you rethink your AA setup based on your complaints.</p> <p>Rangers were nerfed badly with the last expansion, but minor fixes since then brought us back to T1 a long time ago.  There's simply too much evidence against your arguments to suggest rangers are still nerfed, need major changes and are not T1 DPS.</p><p>Message Edited by Gerdos on <span class="date_text">09-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:24 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Theres to much evidence otherwise.. The total damages on all our CA's our similar, however our cast times are not and the only thing to outweigh this is by our offensive proc wich helps but does not ballance.Now heres the main problem - rangers start off without worrying about hate in the start of the raid progression.. Wizards, warlocks, summoners, rouges have to be consious about there hate.. A ranger does not, so the ranger is goign to parse higher because he/she is not burdend by hate.. However, once the raid continues hate nolonger becomes an issue for many of these classes.. And dps jumps ahead alot as classes like rouges, zerkers, guardians get the good 1handers.. This jumps there <u>auto attack</u> to 600-1000 dps depending on haste. And once you start this trend, rangers start to fall behind and maintain 1.2k that ranger was doing when he started raiding.When talking assassins though - its a diffrent story all together.. Assassins are ontop of rangers in CA damage, when our assassin shows up to raids with his adept 3-s.. and my master ones, he does more damage.. Why?? Because he has 20-30% extra time in his CA's per CA, so this comes down to a large diffrence.Now - there is one and only one unknown to put in to state otherwise.. The use of t8 ammo with the best bow, to mark at 500 int. Understand that no one can calculate the damage of t8 ammo to t7, and mark is very random.  If someone can prove that t8 ammo outweighs mark and does 20-30% more dps ontop of that then all arguements towards rangers being in the shortbuss right now are moot.Also - one more thing I want to point out.. Possible fix's include ranger double attack,a boost on our proc, an extra proc, a reduction of our cast times.PS - Assassins also need there ranged arts changed to lower cast times, that is something I *strongly* put forward as well.</div><p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 AM</span>

[Akie]

<P>Gerdos - probably 1 out of 99 people that might know a thing or two about rangers would disagree like you have.</P> <P>As for AA lines, there's not many choices for a ranger, I don't think AA line choices will make any significant difference in DPS, unless you're a total [Removed for Content].</P> <P>If you don't agree with any of my posts, you're lazy and you like being thought of as a sub par DPS class so you can turn on auto attack on raids and go AFK.</P> <P>All I can say is you're totally wrong Gerdos and about 99x more people agree with me than do with you.</P> <P>I have leveled / played almost every class to 70 - I have raided with some top guilds and killed everything that's been killed in EQ2 to date. Ranger is the one class I play that I notice a BIG difference which requires fixing. I don't want to be a broken record here, so I'll just say that I fully disagree with you and your comments suggest to me that you really don't pay much attention to what this thread is talking about.</P>

[Gerdos]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>Gerdos - probably 1 out of 99 people that might know a thing or two about rangers would disagree like you have.</P> <P>As for AA lines, there's not many choices for a ranger, I don't think AA line choices will make any significant difference in DPS, unless you're a total [Removed for Content].</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>When i wrote about AA lines, i was referring to (your) style of play, although i didn't relate this to DPS, the connection is obvious to all.  The choice of AA lines can have a significant different to DPS, while different DPS AA lines has subtle affect on how DPS is gained, but the difference becomes more noticeable when comparing zonewide merged parses.</FONT></P> <P>If you don't agree with any of my posts, you're lazy and you like being thought of as a sub par DPS class so you can turn on auto attack on raids and go AFK.</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>I dont have problems with people complaining or offering constructive critisism , its just your whiney tone, obvious lack of skills/understanding and the missleading information you present that grates on my nerves.  Re-read through your whiney posts and compare it to what i post ... before posting something so stupid.</FONT></P> <P>All I can say is you're totally wrong Gerdos and about 99x more people agree with me than do with you.</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>I could also pull figures out of a hat, and even if 99x more people agreed with you, it doesn't mean they would be right.  Simply put, while a handfull of rangers are able to parse what we parse and play the way we play in solo, group or raid, and the developers do their testing ... the evidence works<EM> </EM>against<EM> your</EM> arguments.</FONT></P> <P>I have leveled / played almost every class to 70 - I have raided with some top guilds and killed everything that's been killed in EQ2 to date. Ranger is the one class I play that I notice a BIG difference which requires fixing. I don't want to be a broken record here, so I'll just say that I fully disagree with you and your comments suggest to me that you really don't pay much attention to what this thread is talking about.<BR><FONT color=#99ff00>It's impossible for me to take you serious based on your posts, but your entitled to your opinions, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

[Akie]

<P>Well - Gerdos, you may have brought a gun but I'm afraid you forgot the ammo. You think I need to learn my class better and I think the same about you. You say there's plenty of data that proves what you say - I say there's very little data in your favor and a plethora of data in mine. -----</P> <P>Either way, I'll agree that we disagree and we share the same sentiment about each others knowledge on the rager as a class. Hopefully you wont be too [Removed for Content] if Sony makes rangers better because of some of the feedback myself or others have given saying some things need to be fixed. Perhaps we're all wrong and you're right. Maybe you're just so uber at EQ2 that you're the only one that's figured out how to play a ranger and we all complain because we've been playing all this time and just can't figure it out....    that must be it...</P>

[Gerdos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>Well - Gerdos, you may have brought a gun but I'm afraid you forgot the ammo. You think I need to learn my class better and I think the same about you. You say there's plenty of data that proves what you say - I say there's very little data in your favor and a plethora of data in mine. -----</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>True, but by the very fact that there is any data in favour of my views is enough to make it fact.  There's a very real gap b/w the top rangers and the majority of rangers and there's several factors for that.  As the best rangers (players) slowly gain full mastery and the appropriate equipment, they too will start matching equivalent sorcerers and summoners on a regular basis.  However, even the best equiped rangers will still be short on DPS if they dont have the skill or optimise their play style.  Only assassins (at an equivalent level - in my experience) can reguarly beat us.  </FONT></P> <P>Either way, I'll agree that we disagree and we share the same sentiment about each others knowledge on the rager as a class. Hopefully you wont be too [Removed for Content] if Sony makes rangers better because of some of the feedback myself or others have given saying some things need to be fixed.</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>Firstly, whatever changes Sony make to rangers, i assure you wont be because of your feedback.</FONT><FONT color=#99ff00><BR></FONT><FONT color=#99ff00>Secondly, you'd carry more weight in your agruments if you didn't use your own false spin/interpretation to my opinions which contradict the things i post ...... which anyone can substantiate for themselves.</FONT></P> <P>Perhaps <STRIKE>we're all wrong and</STRIKE> you're right. Maybe you're just so uber at EQ2 that you're <STRIKE>the only</STRIKE> one that's figured out how to play a ranger and we <STRIKE>all</STRIKE> complain because we've been playing all this time and just can't figure it out....    that must be it...</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>1st lesson leart, little grasshopper. :smileytongue:<BR></FONT><FONT color=#99ff00>2nd lesson, dont hate me because i'm beautiful (in motion)!   :smileywink:</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[LoreLady]

Girdeo's does have a point, where assassins as they stand at the top end are on there own at the top..In the data I have seen from parsings on the boards/disso's parsings (theres alot of them out there <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).. Is top wizards do 1.6k, top rangers do 1.4k-1.5k - top brigands/swash's do 1.5k, top summoners do 1.4k-1.8k, top assassins do 1.6k-1.8k.My own personal stance - is things are still rather flawed requiring our class to have two of the rarest items to be onpar with everyone else, and our CA's are still very imballanced to assassins.. However,  no ranger out there is useless.. Unless they nolonger have arms and are button mashing with there final tooth. (now theres a good visual for ya).

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>Well - Gerdos, you may have brought a gun but I'm afraid you forgot the ammo. You think I need to learn my class better and I think the same about you. You say there's plenty of data that proves what you say - I say there's very little data in your favor and a plethora of data in mine. -----</P> <P>Either way, I'll agree that we disagree and we share the same sentiment about each others knowledge on the rager as a class. Hopefully you wont be too [Removed for Content] if Sony makes rangers better because of some of the feedback myself or others have given saying some things need to be fixed. Perhaps we're all wrong and you're right. Maybe you're just so uber at EQ2 that you're the only one that's figured out how to play a ranger and we all complain because we've been playing all this time and just can't figure it out....    that must be it...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not even going to bother writing out my thoughts on the subject (which has been left behind by now), but I gotta say that posts like this are childish and pathetic. You really seem to want people to agree with you, but you're shooting yourself in the foot by being so snide and immature - even those who might see your point aren't likely to say so b/c they don't want to associate with this kind of behavior. </P> <P>In a relatively short time, Gerdos has contributed an immense amount of information and counsel to help other rangers on this forum. You might want to concentrate on offering something more constructive than name-calling when faced with a minor disagreement.<BR></P>

[Akie]

<DIV>If you bother to look at the first reply that was left by Gerdos you'll see that he initiated the sarcasm. I don't consider personal insults "constructive" in any way. It does kind of [Removed for Content] me off I admit when I am trying to do something positive for the class in general and someone comes along and tries to contradict a problem people have been posting about for a while now. So perhaps I may have sunk myself to his level on the sarcasm and rudeness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gerdos opened his first comment with "this thread gets to me" and saying I don't know how to play my class, well who wouldn't react like that if you believe in what you're talking about. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, this thread was created to hopefully open an eye for some improvements to be made to the ranger CA line. I don't see why I ranger would post here to prevent that from happening (unless it's not a ranger at all).</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:36 AM</span>

[Imlach]

<P>well,</P> <P>i ve learned long ago that my opinion matters not at all for Sony or Devs, i dont care to make childish or whining posts as they will get me nowhere... i KNOW i play my ranger to the limits and i KNOW it is not where it has to be... modifications to be made can differ from one to another depending on the playing style... been playing ranger in various games for more than 10 years and noone can make me betray to an assassin... i emotionally am in love with being called as Ranger...</P> <P>what i am trying to say is i am trying to play my ranger as best as i can, am i furious? yes... can i do something about it? no as noone on the other end is listening... so people's attitude is more or less the same on both ends... both parties (Devs and complaining Rangers) are pretty sure that they are right and dont even listen to the other end...</P> <P>so where does this leave me? as i say i play the ranger as best as i can, as long as i am having fun with my frişends in game... and when (will eventually happen) someone comes up with a better game with better understanding on CLASS MECHANICS (not game mechanics) i ll move into that...</P> <P>you should no way let a game (fictious) that you pay for, cloud your manners and act like someone you are NOT... this is a game, you dont like it then dont pay for it...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Akie]

<P>Imlach -</P> <P>Good post and I agree with you on a lot of it. I simply still have faith that Sony will eventually listen to one of these posts and consider making some changes. Even if small changes are made, at least it would be something.</P> <P>Did I expect to have something done because of this post?: Not really, just hoped.</P> <P>Do I think something will be done?: yes, provided enough rangers come forward and voice their concerns with our CA line. Sony can easily ignore a handfull of the vocal few, but ignoring all the rangers out there would be much more difficult.</P> <P>If it's this post or the next one someone creates about this same thing, I think eventually it will catch the eye of a dev or someone that can do something out it. Once that happens, this all will have been worth it.</P> <P>Do I enjoy playing my ranger?: Sure I do, I just wish I could provide a bit more benefit to my guild and think by all means I should be able to.</P> <P>My whole point in all this is that I think the majority agrees that rangers have been short changed which makes them probably the least desired class for end game guild recruitment. For those of us that really enjoy playing a ranger and refuse to betray over as as assassin, the least we can do is try to make things change. I didn't expect it to be easy but if I did nothing, I'd just be another one of those "turn on auto attack and AFK; my class is fine" type of people, which I also refuse to be.</P>

[Imlach]

i truly see your point on the subject,the thing is i ve seen so many good players posting constructive comments on fixing us containing hard evidence data, i ve seen people like Jay who always have a positive manner but think more or less like me... they are all at least good players and posters whom i read their ideas respectfully... i do not post alot... nor i have their ability to make myself so clear... and only answer the SoE brilliant minds can come up with was "the rangers are where we want them to be... period..."so i ve decided that we should not provide them with more tools for them to treat us like 6 yrs old [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kids... for me they made their point quite clear on the subject...we are where they want us to be...(oh bdw, for pitys sake please do NOT call any server an RP server for EQ2 since all that matters is your handicapped game mechanics)

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you bother to look at the first reply that was left by Gerdos you'll see that he initiated the sarcasm. I don't consider personal insults "constructive" in any way. <BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I re-read Gerdos' first post as you requested in your PM to me. I think you're reading WAY more into it than was ever intended. I see no personal insults and no sarcasm. He does say that the topic of the thread bothers him, b/c he has a different opinion than you do; you took that as being "contradictory and unconstructive." He also mentions that a lot of ppl neglect some of our CAs; you took that as "personal insults" and "sarcasm." Frankly, I suggest that *you* go re-read his first post, and then re-read your subsequent responses. </P> <P>FWIW, I don't even know Gerdos and we aren't close friends. We've never said a word to each other outside these forums. So if I'm biased, as you accused in the PM, it's a bias toward someone who has made useful contributions to the ranger community rather than a bias toward someone I know personally. If Gerdos had taken the same attitude toward you with the same lack of provocation, I'd have said the same thing to him instead. </P> <P>I'm done playing the Daddy (as you called it) here. Usually I keep my mouth shut when it comes to petty squabbles b/w people here, but your whole tone and approach prompted me to voice my opinion. Yes, your opinion is a valid one, as much so as anyone else's, including Gerdos' or mine, but IMO you're beating a dead horse on this topic. We've talked this issue to death for months now, and I don't see any new points or information in this thread. I'm sorry if you're offended that we didn't all rally to your cause (or that some people disagreed with your opinion), but many of us have been in the trenches for a long time already. </P><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:34 PM</span>

[Davcre]

<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>** DISCLAIMER ** -</FONT></STRONG> <STRONG><EM>do not read if you are looking for useful information</EM></STRONG><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>I re-read Gerdos' first post as you requested in your PM to me. I think you're reading WAY more into it than was ever intended. I see no personal insults and no sarcasm. He does say that the topic of the thread bothers him, b/c he has a different opinion than you do; you took that as being "contradictory and unconstructive."</P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Forgive him he's probably a democrat.</FONT></EM></STRONG>  :smileysad:</P> <P>He also mentions that a lot of ppl neglect some of our CAs; you took that as "personal insults" and "sarcasm." Frankly, I suggest that *you* go re-read his first post, and then re-read your subsequent responses.</P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Your useage of the * character delimiting the word 'you' instructs our application's interface with Crystal Reports to properly convert this into a UPC code, gg.  Bonus points for working 'Frankly' into the post as well.  If you need a job send me a PM!</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>FWIW, I don't even know Gerdos and we aren't close friends.</P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>What in the lands of Norath does FWIW mean?  I'm guessing it must be an acronym for something in the fast food industry given the poster.</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>We've never said a word to each other outside these forums.</P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>That's a given...computer geeks cannot communicate w/o the tools of the trade:  monitors, keyboards and gender-defying online handles.</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>So if I'm biased, as you accused in the PM, it's a bias toward someone who has made useful contributions to the ranger community rather than a bias toward someone I know personally. If Gerdos had taken the same attitude toward you with the same lack of provocation, I'd have said the same thing to him instead. </P> <P>I'm done playing the Daddy</P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>You, sir, are a dead beat and you kid will no doubt grow up emo (unless you had the foresight to name him Sue).</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P> (as you called it) here. Usually I keep my mouth shut when it comes to petty squabbles b/w people here, but your whole tone and approach prompted me to voice my opinion.</P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>If you don't keep your mouth shut, I'm going to ask Manpoon to visit and give you something to stuff in there!</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P> Yes, your opinion is a valid one, as much so as anyone else's, including Gerdos' or mine, but IMO you're beating a dead horse on this topic.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG><EM>On a side note, Joey Porter's (Steeler's pro bowl linebacker) dogs attacked and killed a miniature horse today not 10 minutes from where I work.</EM></STRONG></FONT></P> <P> We've talked this issue to death for months now, and I don't see any new points or information in this thread. I'm sorry if you're offended that we didn't all rally to your cause (or that some people disagreed with your opinion), but many of us have been in the trenches for a long time already. </P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Yes, the trenches do wreak of hoagies and dried cat urine...</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>btw, Jay, i love you /hugz</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Akie]

Thanks for the comic relief <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jay]

<DIV>Hey Dav, you spelled Norrath wrong. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But really? Tore the horse to pieces huh?</DIV>

[Carna]

<P>Posts like those of Gerdos and Jay are among the few things that allow me to believe there's any chance of intelligent discourse.</P> <P>Keep it simple... call for shorter cast timers and a small ranged double attack AA (which I'll be suprised in the next expansion doesn't include) and call it done.</P> <P>Akient, the angst just turns the devs off and has caused a large number of good Rangers to simply not return here. A lot of the people who would disagree with your stronger assertions simply don't come here anymore. They got tired of being called a [Removed for Content], and they simply get on with their game now.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><EM>"I have leveled / played almost every class to 70"</EM></FONT> - No you haven't.</P>

[Davcre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hey Dav, you spelled Norrath wrong. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But really? Tore the horse to pieces huh?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i'm a noob when it comes to speeling!</P> <P>not sure if they tore it up, but it is dead and a little girl is no doubt crying herself to sleep tonight</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Davcre wrote:<BR><BR> <P>not sure if they tore it up, but it is dead and a little girl is no doubt crying herself to sleep tonight</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL... that really shouldn't be funny... but it is. I'm a bad, bad person.

[Akie]

<DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><EM>-----------------------------------------------</EM></FONT></P> <P><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Quote from Carnagh</FONT></EM></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><EM>"I have leveled / played almost every class to 70"</EM></FONT> - No you haven't.</P> <P> </P> <P>------------------------------------------------</P> <P> </P> <P>You know, I was almost able to absorb your post being constructive in it's own little "I know how the world turns" kind of way. Until you got down to the last part where you say ""No you haven't" .. I mean, I could have swore we don't know each other personally so I'm not sure how you could possibly make a statement like that...</P> <P>But, just to be fair and so you can understand on the same level:  Yes, I have, (with the exception of an enchanter class - "that would be Coercer or Illusionist Carnagh)</P> <P>Any other [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]-umptions you'd like to make? Perhaps you can tell me what else I haven't or have done, since you know....</P></DIV>

[Teksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>Davcre wrote:<div><strong><font color="#ff0000">** DISCLAIMER ** -</font></strong> <strong><em>do not read if you are looking for useful information</em></strong> <blockquote> <hr> Jay42 wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <p>I re-read Gerdos' first post as you requested in your PM to me. I think you're reading WAY more into it than was ever intended. I see no personal insults and no sarcasm. He does say that the topic of the thread bothers him, b/c he has a different opinion than you do; you took that as being "contradictory and unconstructive."</p> <p><strong><em><font color="#ffff00">Forgive him he's probably a democrat.</font></em></strong>  :smileysad:</p><hr> </blockquote></div>I love that... I'm still ROFLMAO</blockquote></div>

[Carna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><EM>-----------------------------------------------</EM></FONT></P> <P><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Quote from Carnagh</FONT></EM></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><EM>"I have leveled / played almost every class to 70"</EM></FONT> - No you haven't.</P> <P> </P> <P>------------------------------------------------</P> <P> </P> <P>You know, I was almost able to absorb your post being constructive in it's own little "I know how the world turns" kind of way. Until you got down to the last part where you say ""No you haven't" .. I mean, I could have swore we don't know each other personally so I'm not sure how you could possibly make a statement like that...</P> <P>But, just to be fair and so you can understand on the same level:  Yes, I have, (with the exception of an enchanter class - "that would be Coercer or Illusionist Carnagh)</P> <P>Any other [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]-umptions you'd like to make? Perhaps you can tell me what else I haven't or have done, since you know....</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The assumption is that you're full of it... I'm quite happy to assert again... you haven't played almost every class to 70. It's a lie, and I'm calling you on it.<BR>

[LoreLady]

Hell, im in a open guild where everyone we play eachother every once and a while.. And I still havent played - any summoner, rouge, warlock, templar, mystic, etc..And considering it takes a minimum of 3 weeks to get to level 70, 50 aa while botting 2 toons for powerleveling.. It is HIGHLY unlikely you have played every class out there.. However, id LOVE to be proven wrong..

[Akie]

<DIV>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Carnagh wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The assumption is that you're full of it... I'm quite happy to assert again... you haven't played almost every class to 70. It's a lie, and I'm calling you on it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>It really doesn't matter, I could tell you were a [Removed for Content] and "full of it" with your first post. Not that I wanta sit here and play "my dad can beat up your dad" with your juvenile insults. Get back to me in a few years when you can match wit.</FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Bottom line is: you just don't have a clue what you're talking about - that alone alleviates any insult you could possibly throw at me.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>BTW - Stop making assumptions, you're only making an a s s out of yourself kiddo.</FONT></P> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[13thSleeple]

<DIV>As an Assassin, it always makes me a little nervous to read these types of threads. Based on previous experience I can only assume that if the developers do decide to help out the Ranger sub class in anyway due its percieved lack of dps, they will most likely nerf us or everyone else instead. In my opinion, the numbers do not make up the whole story and I suspect this is the reason Rangers are in fact exactly where they are supposed to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Uncaged Alzid</DIV> <DIV>Cruor</DIV> <DIV>Chal'Drak</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are examples that spring to mind, where distance to the mob has a significant advantage for life expectancy. From personal experience I can assure you all, that our main raiding Ranger does not lack in DPS in most encounters regardless of whether we are fighting ranged biased mobs or not. However when we do require more Ranged dps, this class stands out as necessary not optional.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I even suspect that Rangers will be even more important when the new expansion comes out. The Raid zones are supposed to be significantly more difficult.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gailstryd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 13thSleeplesS wrote:<BR> <DIV>As an Assassin, it always makes me a little nervous to read these types of threads. Based on previous experience I can only assume that if the developers do decide to help out the Ranger sub class in anyway due its percieved lack of dps, they will most likely nerf us or everyone else instead. In my opinion, the numbers do not make up the whole story and I suspect this is the reason Rangers are in fact exactly where they are supposed to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Uncaged Alzid</DIV> <DIV>Cruor</DIV> <DIV>Chal'Drak</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are examples that spring to mind, where distance to the mob has a significant advantage for life expectancy. From personal experience I can assure you all, that our main raiding Ranger does not lack in DPS in most encounters regardless of whether we are fighting ranged biased mobs or not. However when we do require more Ranged dps, this class stands out as necessary not optional.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I even suspect that Rangers will be even more important when the new expansion comes out. The Raid zones are supposed to be significantly more difficult.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>But see you are wrong.  If rangers remain such a....mediocre class in comparison to it's counterparts the new "significantly more difficult" content is going to put us in the dog house.  As it stands now to compete for top dps and hold our own with the upper echelons we have to have two extremely rare bows, one to summon t8 ammo and one to do the damage.  And these bows are rare, one of the top raiding guilds on my server hasn't seen the second bow at all.  Now some would say then that rangers aren't broken or whatever, rather that it was a matter of itemzation and it is to an extent.  However, it's more so over a combinations of our cast/recast timers, the dmg on our CA's, ammo, itemization, and maybe a smattering of a few other things that all conspire together to leave us in the bleh bin.  Now fixing any one of these may prove to be just what the doctor ordered.  But, it is fixing all of them where we run into a problem because with all of them fixed we are overpowered again.  This is where I think the dev's say we are fine because if they were to fix everything or too much or the wrong one thing we could be back where we were post LU13 and the resulting renerf I think would be unrecoverable.  </P> <P>Now, back to harder content, it will demand the best of the best and while certainly there is always going to be an odd man out no matter what, what is needed is for Rangers (and maybe one or two other classes) to not be so far behind we are the constant odd man out (which imo hasn't happened yet but could if we continue to get the digs).  Basically with the harder content it's going to be even more important to pick hte class you NEED and no other.  ATM you NEED fighters (for the most part) and healers to do just about anything heroic.....yes you also need dps but dps is where the line between need and want start to get blurred.  DPS classes even in eq1 were a sore subject for many because ultimately you wound up with one or two clear best of and everyone else was or is just fluff.  What would be nice is if everyone could have hte same amount of usefullness and yet at the same time that is very boring and really for true perfect balance it would take a mind breaking load of work and "difference in the details" to make that work. </P> <P>In all I don't even raid anymore and I honestly plan to raid with another toon if I ever do start back up unless they bring Rangers back into a SOLID competetive spot.  It's going to be the progressive upward spiral of difficulty and the progressive "let it lie" attitude of the dev's that will put the Ranger into a shallow grave for most.  Maybe EoF AP's will bring us up, maybe something else will, the real question is how much longer will most be able to take needing extremely rare raid only loot to be balanced.</P>

[Katsugen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 13thSleeplesS wrote:<BR> <DIV>As an Assassin, it always makes me a little nervous to read these types of threads. Based on previous experience I can only assume that if the developers do decide to help out the Ranger sub class in anyway due its percieved lack of dps, they will most likely nerf us or everyone else instead. In my opinion, the numbers do not make up the whole story and I suspect this is the reason Rangers are in fact exactly where they are supposed to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Uncaged Alzid</DIV> <DIV>Cruor</DIV> <DIV>Chal'Drak</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are examples that spring to mind, where distance to the mob has a significant advantage for life expectancy. From personal experience I can assure you all, that our main raiding Ranger does not lack in DPS in most encounters regardless of whether we are fighting ranged biased mobs or not. However when we do require more Ranged dps, this class stands out as necessary not optional.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I even suspect that Rangers will be even more important when the new expansion comes out. The Raid zones are supposed to be significantly more difficult.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Rangers are necessary on fights where predators can't survive the AE? Is that what I'm to take from this. So we get to best assassins on 1-2% of encounters. Yeh, that doesn't sound balanced to me. Plus that doesn't mean much when wizzy's can still range without issue. Besides ranger rely on our melee and sweet spot atks to get our numbers up. Any ranger worth their salt should be dropping ranger blade as much as possible, and that requires us to be up close and personal. I don't like the arguement that rangers dps is fine because we can range, cuz I spend almost all my time near the mob to get my dps to where it is.</P> <P>-Katsugen</P>

[13thSleeple]

<DIV> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Katsugen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 13thSleeplesS wrote:<BR> <DIV>As an Assassin, it always makes me a little nervous to read these types of threads. Based on previous experience I can only assume that if the developers do decide to help out the Ranger sub class in anyway due its percieved lack of dps, they will most likely nerf us or everyone else instead. In my opinion, the numbers do not make up the whole story and I suspect this is the reason Rangers are in fact exactly where they are supposed to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Uncaged Alzid</DIV> <DIV>Cruor</DIV> <DIV>Chal'Drak</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are examples that spring to mind, where distance to the mob has a significant advantage for life expectancy. From personal experience I can assure you all, that our main raiding Ranger does not lack in DPS in most encounters regardless of whether we are fighting ranged biased mobs or not. However when we do require more Ranged dps, this class stands out as necessary not optional.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I even suspect that Rangers will be even more important when the new expansion comes out. The Raid zones are supposed to be significantly more difficult.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Rangers are necessary on fights where predators can't survive the AE? Is that what I'm to take from this. So we get to best assassins on 1-2% of encounters. Yeh, that doesn't sound balanced to me. Plus that doesn't mean much when wizzy's can still range without issue. Besides ranger rely on our melee and sweet spot atks to get our numbers up. Any ranger worth their salt should be dropping ranger blade as much as possible, and that requires us to be up close and personal. I don't like the arguement that rangers dps is fine because we can range, cuz I spend almost all my time near the mob to get my dps to where it is.</P> <P>-Katsugen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>Once again purhaps too much emphasis on raw 'bottom line' numbers. Who cares if you best the Assassin on all fights, when you can stand back on Corsolander and do the damage that wins the battle. Rangers are tier 1 DPS, that may be slightly lower than other classes within tier 1, which is balanced by being more effective at range (vs Assassin), and having a hell of alot more mit if they somehow do get agro (vs Wizard/Warlock). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anything the culprit here is the humble parser and some players obsession with it.</DIV>

[Tarryn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 13thSleeplesS wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again purhaps too much emphasis on raw 'bottom line' numbers. Who cares if you best the Assassin on all fights, when you can stand back on Corsolander and do the damage that wins the battle. Rangers are tier 1 DPS, that may be slightly lower than other classes within tier 1, which is balanced by being more effective at range (vs Assassin), and having a hell of alot more mit if they somehow do get agro (vs Wizard/Warlock).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anything the culprit here is the humble parser and some players obsession with it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So, bottom line, how many encounters are there in which AEs are so vicious that everyone has to fight from range, allowing the ranger to do better than other DPS?  Mind you, only those encounters where it's even possible to stay out of AE range.  How many?</P> <P>The fact is, the ranged requirement for most of our attacks is a <EM>hinderance</EM>, not an advantage.  If we could maintain the same DPS at any range, then it would be a factor in balancing us--as it is, though, our range requirements should be calling for an offsetting <EM>benefit</EM>, if anything.</P> <P>As far as the extra mitigation over wizards, does it really matter much if a mob hits you for 15k rather than 16k? :p</P>

[Nak]

One example of range being good would be Halls of Seeing, theres a lot of short range ae stuns and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in the zone which makes it harder for classes in range to dps while the ranger can still just fire away, at least that was his excuse when i beat him on the zone wide parse at around 1459 dps..............rangers aren't nearly as bad as people think they are it just requires a good bow and lvl 70 ammo helps for the most part >< <div></div>

[xandez]

<DIV>well odds are that many players will not ever see that fabled bow which summons the essential arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what gives? Gives us more similar types of bows and ammo, please! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>++Xan</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>xandez wrote:<div>well odds are that many players will not ever see that fabled bow which summons the essential arrows.</div> <div> </div> <div>what gives? Gives us more similar types of bows and ammo, please! </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>++Xan</div><hr></blockquote>i'd support that.. a couple of not so rare T8 arrow summoning bows, hell make em Ranger only if you have too.. then there will be no more excuses for Rangers sub par DPS, every Raiding ranger can just get those weapons to be where they should be.  Just like every raiding assassin gets GDoH and DoN to be where they should be.  make the bows about the same difficulty to get as those weapons and your set.</div>

[Katsugen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> 13thSleeplesS wrote: <P> </P> <DIV>Once again purhaps too much emphasis on raw 'bottom line' numbers. Who cares if you best the Assassin on all fights, when you can stand back on Corsolander and do the damage that wins the battle. Rangers are tier 1 DPS, that may be slightly lower than other classes within tier 1, which is balanced by being more effective at range (vs Assassin), and having a hell of alot more mit if they somehow do get agro (vs Wizard/Warlock).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>If anything the culprit here is the humble parser and some players obsession with it.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>See this statement bothers me. Why even talk about dps if your not relying on parse data. If you never ever looked at parse before, sure it's easy to think we are fine. Heck if you never look at one you can just assume paly's do the same dps, or that no one ever goes ninja afk. If your not looking at some sort of data then why the heck do you even care about dps.</P> <P>I'm sorry but I don't buy into the "I dps, therefore I am" mentallity. The compliants brought here to the boards come from ppl that provided parse data showing that rangers were low compared to other teir1 (sometimes teir2) dps. If your opinion that we are fine is not coming from any solid data and just coming how you feel, then I would argue your point has no sound evidence to back up your claim.</P> <P>Ohh and btw there are a few fights here and there that my raid leader won't let me ranger, and due to the overly large model radius I end up not being able to do any range atks. Not too dissimilar from the few AE assassins must avoid.<BR></P> <P>-Katsugen</P>

[Mirdo]

<div><blockquote><hr>13thSleeplesS wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Katsugen wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> 13thSleeplesS wrote: <div>As an Assassin, it always makes me a little nervous to read these types of threads. Based on previous experience I can only assume that if the developers do decide to help out the Ranger sub class in anyway due its percieved lack of dps, they will most likely nerf us or everyone else instead. In my opinion, the numbers do not make up the whole story and I suspect this is the reason Rangers are in fact exactly where they are supposed to be.</div> <div> </div> <div>The Uncaged Alzid</div> <div>Cruor</div> <div>Chal'Drak</div> <div> </div> <div>These are examples that spring to mind, where distance to the mob has a significant advantage for life expectancy. From personal experience I can assure you all, that our main raiding Ranger does not lack in DPS in most encounters regardless of whether we are fighting ranged biased mobs or not. However when we do require more Ranged dps, this class stands out as necessary not optional.</div> <div> </div> <div>I even suspect that Rangers will be even more important when the new expansion comes out. The Raid zones are supposed to be significantly more difficult.</div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Rangers are necessary on fights where predators can't survive the AE? Is that what I'm to take from this. So we get to best assassins on 1-2% of encounters. Yeh, that doesn't sound balanced to me. Plus that doesn't mean much when wizzy's can still range without issue. Besides ranger rely on our melee and sweet spot atks to get our numbers up. Any ranger worth their salt should be dropping ranger blade as much as possible, and that requires us to be up close and personal. I don't like the arguement that rangers dps is fine because we can range, cuz I spend almost all my time near the mob to get my dps to where it is.</p> <p>-Katsugen</p> <hr> </blockquote> Once again purhaps too much emphasis on raw 'bottom line' numbers. Who cares if you best the Assassin on all fights, <font color="#ff0000">when you can stand back on Corsolander and do the damage that wins the battl</font>e. Rangers are tier 1 DPS, that may be slightly lower than other classes within tier 1, which is balanced by being more effective at range (vs Assassin), and having a hell of alot more mit if they somehow do get agro (vs Wizard/Warlock). </div> <div> </div> <div>If anything the culprit here is the humble parser and some players obsession with it.</div><hr></blockquote>If your Assassins can't do close to normal damage on this mob then they or your healers are slacking.The only Rangers you can possibly argue are even close to balanced are those that have bows that summon T8 ammo (DT only and therefore not accessible to a %age of the population) and wielding the Venekor bow (rare drop and again not accessible by a large portion of the Ranger population).Mirdo.</div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>13thSleeplesS wrote:<div>As an Assassin, it always makes me a little nervous to read these types of threads. Based on previous experience I can only assume that if the developers do decide to help out the Ranger sub class in anyway due its percieved lack of dps, they will most likely nerf us or everyone else instead. In my opinion, the numbers do not make up the whole story and I suspect this is the reason Rangers are in fact exactly where they are supposed to be.</div> <div> </div> <div>The Uncaged Alzid</div> <div>Cruor</div> <div>Chal'Drak</div> <div> </div> <div>These are examples that spring to mind, where distance to the mob has a significant advantage for life expectancy. From personal experience I can assure you all, that our main raiding Ranger does not lack in DPS in most encounters regardless of whether we are fighting ranged biased mobs or not. However when we do require more Ranged dps, this class stands out as necessary not optional.</div> <div> </div> <div>I even suspect that Rangers will be even more important when the new expansion comes out. The Raid zones are supposed to be significantly more difficult.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Assassins out dps rangers throughout the game.. If you take mark away from an assassin - and look at short term, midterm, dps, and recycle time, and dps to power.. Assassins are ontop on all those categories by 20-30% without mark..Currently, the only thing to outballance mark is t8 arrows.. And the only time where you can get t8 arrows and actually compete with an assassin, is when you have gotten two of the rarest bows in the game.And as for wraith.. I completly agree with you, mobs are going to get harder, have more hp, have more mitigation.. If they cant get this right, how do they expect to get these new aa's right when the base dps is flawed between the two classes?I personally find it disheartening when a necro with 2 masters, and an assassin with 3 masters is able to outdps me; a fully fabled/mastered ranger on every zonewide parse.</div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mirdo wrote:<div>If your Assassins can't do close to normal damage on this mob then they or your healers are slacking.</div><hr></blockquote>if your assassins are in at melee range for this entire fight, then your assassins are morons.I dont know about your assassins, but I am generally at about 100% haste, thats an awful lot of hitting the mob, usually twice a second.  Thats about 1500+ damage a second I am taking, on top of the normal AE's etc etc.  Throw CA's into that and is spells a crap load of unneccessary healing. Each assassin better have his own healer spamming heals if this is your strat.Most rediculous idea I have ever heard.. send your melee in to wail on a mob that has a damage shield that hits for about 750+ points of damage.  My god.Rangers arent the only class who needs equipment to do good DPS btw.  An assassin with average weapons still does average DPS.  The assassins you read about doing 1800+ DPS have GDoH and DoN or weapons similar.Rangers suffer from lack of itemisation on bows.</div>

[13thSleeple]

<DIV>"If your Assassins can't do close to normal damage on this mob then they or your healers are slacking."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Mirdo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks Mirdo you have highlighted another problem that often arrises on these boards, and that is gross exageration or missinformation. If someone  new to raiding read your post, they would be under the impression that they could run right up to Corsolander and start hacking away safe in the knowledge that their healers should be keeping them up. What would actually happen, is that they would die in under 30 seconds and possibly not be invited back on a raid due to not following the orders of the raid leader.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There should be a sticky at the top of each EQ2 Forum that stipulates - If you read the phrase 'then you or your healers are not doing their job', please divide information by 2/3'ds to allow for bragging.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The same can be applied to some posters who throw around unrealistic numbers for the gap between Ranger dps and everyone else, the percentages seem to grow exponentially each post. <BR></DIV>

[Katsugen]

<P>I have seen wardens put up that tree thingy and melee can dps just fine. We do that, so maybe that what why his assassins can still beat the rangers.</P> <P>-Katsugen</P>

[Mirdo]

<P>The post was directed at you and you understood my meaning prefectly well. I don't have the time to write every sub-clause and caveat regarding DPS in every post I make - I know what they are and seemingly you do.</P> <P>You can take my post any way you like, but in my guild, with our set-up and players, ours Assassins can still hit top DPS. Anyone reading your post might assume the opposite - a Ranger can't be beaten on that mob - like you say - gross mis-information and exaggeration. I expect you didn't have the time or inclination to write all the caveats around the information you posted either.</P> <P>Anyway, I agree with you to some extent, a correctly geared Ranger can be very competitive in DPS. The relative difficulty of obtainiing high DR bows and appropriate ammo seems to me to be at the heart of the problem. If CA timers are reduced or damage increased, a Ranger lucky enough to be top geared will again start to exceed the damage of the other T1 classes. That's probably why Rangers have seen no more tweaks to damage mechanics.</P> <P>Mirdo.</P>

[Mirdo]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mirdo wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>If your Assassins can't do close to normal damage on this mob then they or your healers are slacking.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>if your assassins are in at melee range for this entire fight, then your assassins are morons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>No, they know how to be effective and turn off autoattack when necessary</FONT><BR><BR>I dont know about your assassins, but I am generally at about 100% haste, thats an awful lot of hitting the mob, usually twice a second.  Thats about 1500+ damage a second I am taking, on top of the normal AE's etc etc.  Throw CA's into that and is spells a crap load of unneccessary healing. Each assassin better have his own healer spamming heals if this is your strat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>No, they don't need their own healers and they still do great DPS on this mob. Unnecessary healing? Are you saying you reduce your DPS so your healers have less work to do? I see that as a wasted opportunity to kill the mob faster but each to their own. </FONT><BR><BR>Most rediculous idea I have ever heard.. send your melee in to wail on a mob that has a damage shield that hits for about 750+ points of damage.  My god.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#339900>You don't have to like our strat but if we can burn down the mobs faster, we move through the zone faster. labs has a lot ot trash mobs to burn through - we like to move through the zone asap. You seem to be assuming our melee DPS all die horrible deaths, meleeing until they drop - don't be silly. </FONT></DIV><FONT color=#339900></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#339900>At this point I could infer from your post that you don't kill this mob in a terribly time efficient way but that would be a dangerous assumtion to make.  I expect you clear labs as efficiently as you would like - I know we do.</FONT></P><FONT color=#339900></FONT> <P>Rangers arent the only class who needs equipment to do good DPS btw.  An assassin with average weapons still does average DPS.  The assassins you read about doing 1800+ DPS have GDoH and DoN or weapons similar.</P> <P><FONT color=#339900>I always try and compare like with like. I know very well what our 1800+ DPS Assassins are using - I passed on some of the bids so they could win those higher DR weapons. Similarly they have passed on bows for my benefit.</FONT><BR><BR>Rangers suffer from lack of itemisation on bows.</P> <P><FONT color=#339900>Agreed. The more I play, the more I see the perceived DPS discrepancy as being due to itemisation and relative difficulty of obtaining T8 ammo and higher DR longbows. </FONT></P><FONT color=#339900></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#339900>Finally, I see two assassins responded to what I wrote. I can assure you, the assassins in my guild achieve very high DPS on Corsolander. They are very well geared and backed up by good healers. It's the way we take that mob down. You might do it differently but please, don't attack our methods when you haven't seen them or experienced them. I posted originally because the statement  '<FONT color=#ffffff>Who cares if you best the Assassin on all fights, when you can stand back on Corsolander and do the damage that wins the battle' </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#339900>is not applicable in many cases. Corsolander is a perfecty beatable mob with no Ranger in the raid. They all are and there are very few fights where being a Ranger offers a *significant* advantage.</FONT> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

[TerriBlades]

I dont see why anyone would even bother bringing up the Corsolander. Plain and simple, that mob is a joke. Always has been, always well be. I dont care how you fight it. Be it Melee, Ranged, or throwing your dirty laundry at it.  It used to be we would range it, and joust the AE, now a days, we dont even bother to joust, but even our first pull on this mob wasnt hard. This mob should never, ever, ever be used as an example for anything. And if you ask me, Rangers need a bit more help then just getting 2 bows, but that would be a nice start.

[Mescali]

I'm just glad everyone in my guild sucks so I look really good by comparison.<div></div>

[Jay]

<DIV>Yeah! I need to get into a crappy guild so I can shine <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I gotta agree with TerriBlades... it's amusing that Corsolander is providing so much fodder for discussion. It's a single x4 mob in a single raid zone, and a minor pit-stop in the zone at that. Whatever your strat is, you can't point at one mob in the game and go "Ranged DPS is key RIGHT HERE, so your whole class is just fine."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now, the arrow problem is bothering me a hell of a lot more than mediocre DPS. I can live with the shortfall on DPS, b/c I've seen firsthand that it CAN be overcome - it just seems a much harder struggle for us than most other DPS classes. But the arrow problem is ridiculous, idiotic, pointless, unfair, and just plain dumb.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's really sad that two bows in this game can summon arrows 400% faster than I can (with arrow summon at Adept 3) - and higher-quality arrows at that. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jayad]

<P>I'm so glad rangers are balanced around 1 or 2 encounters in the entire game, according to some people.</P> <P>p.s. have you ever played a ranger on a huge mob like Vyemm or the last named on Mark of Awakening raid?  It's not a real advantage to have range at that point.</P>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div> <p>I'm so glad rangers are balanced around 1 or 2 encounters in the entire game, according to some people.</p> <p>p.s. have you ever played a ranger on a huge mob like Vyemm or the last named on Mark of Awakening raid?  It's not a real advantage to have range at that point.</p><hr></blockquote>Another large problem that many miss - that gets overlooked..  And yea - jay.. At this point I can still sympathize with ya, the ichorstrand dident drop my first night in DT last night.. So, yea.. Im still paying for them as well.</div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div> <p>I'm so glad rangers are balanced around 1 or 2 encounters in the entire game, according to some people.</p> <p>p.s. have you ever played a ranger on a huge mob like Vyemm or the last named on Mark of Awakening raid?  It's not a real advantage to have range at that point.</p><hr></blockquote>thats a good point.  I still think Rangers should be the only class with no minimum range on ranged CA's and range auto attack.  If they are gonna master the bow, its gonna be in all situations.</div>

[xandez]

Very nice idea There Sirlutt! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan<div></div>

[dazze]

<P>Hi guys, I dont usually make posts about the mythical Ranger nerf as i've seen it and read it all since KOS.</P> <P>Every one knows we were hit really hard at the start of KOS, hell my old guild fury used to out dps me.</P> <P>Since then tho various changes have been made to our class, the main one being the increase in ranged auto damage.</P> <P>My guild Unity is one of top guilds on SP, so I am privileged to be surrounded buy excellent players and have access to excellent gear.</P> <P>In a raid situation I parse anywhere between 1200 and 2200, thats on single mobs or multi mobs. I average about 1500/1600, and only hit low levels when we are fighting bruiser type mobs or we are in excpetionally long fights, or if i'm slacking. This rarely leaves me out of the top 3 dps classes in a raid, and very often on top.</P> <P>Im lucky enough to have Bazkul The Soul Seeker so I have an excellent bow with t8 ammo. This does make some difference, but the main difference comes from the aa set up, you need to max out the ranged crit chance and the posion crit chance. With that bow I crit 5.5k on autoattack, and with GM Caustic my posion can crit 1400. Maxing those aa lines makes a huge difference to dps, I will hit critically every 33% or so.</P> <P>The point is stop whining about how crappy your class is, if you really enjoy your class, and really want to get the best out of it, then you need to put some hard work in. Yes other classes dont require such an effort to achieve such lvls of dps, but the satisfaction of doing it the hard way is far greater!!</P> <P>To see myself constantly out dpsing conj wizzies and YES ASSASSINS and so on and so forth (rogues shouldnt even come to close to us btw) is a nice feeling after the way we were treated at the start of KOS. </P> <P>If you enjoy dissing your class then you should really think about roling a Paladin<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Subtle: 70 Ranger</P> <P>Senior Officer and Recruiter for Unity (Splitpaw)</P> <P> </P> <P>p.s. we are looking for a defiler<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Viglundr]

<DIV> <P>Hi guys, I dont usually make posts about the mythical Ranger nerf as i've seen it and read it all since KOS.</P> <P>Every one knows we were hit really hard at the start of KOS, hell my old guild fury used to out dps me.</P> <P>Since then tho various changes have been made to our class, the main one being the increase in ranged auto damage.</P> <P>My guild Unity is one of top guilds on SP, so I am privileged to be surrounded buy excellent players and have access to excellent gear.</P> <P>In a raid situation I parse anywhere between 1200 and 2200, thats on single mobs or multi mobs. I average about 1500/1600, and only hit low levels when we are fighting bruiser type mobs or we are in excpetionally long fights, or if i'm slacking. This rarely leaves me out of the top 3 dps classes in a raid, and very often on top.</P> <P>Im lucky enough to have Bazkul The Soul Seeker so I have an excellent bow with t8 ammo. This does make some difference, but the main difference comes from the aa set up, you need to max out the ranged crit chance and the posion crit chance. With that bow I crit 5.5k on autoattack, and with GM Caustic my posion can crit 1400. Maxing those aa lines makes a huge difference to dps, I will hit critically every 33% or so.</P> <P>The point is stop whining about how crappy your class is, if you really enjoy your class, and really want to get the best out of it, then you need to put some hard work in. Yes other classes dont require such an effort to achieve such lvls of dps, but the satisfaction of doing it the hard way is far greater!!</P> <P>To see myself constantly out dpsing conj wizzies and YES ASSASSINS and so on and so forth (rogues shouldnt even come to close to us btw) is a nice feeling after the way we were treated at the start of KOS. </P> <P>If you enjoy dissing your class then you should really think about roling a Paladin<IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>Subtle: 70 Ranger</P> <P>Senior Officer and Recruiter for Unity (Splitpaw)</P> <P>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P> <FONT color=#ffff00>Amen!</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P></DIV>

[Zirlok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mescaline wrote:<BR>I'm just glad everyone in my guild sucks so I look really good by comparison.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>omg that [Removed for Content] pwns!......</P> <P> </P> <P>my vote for ranger quote of the year. :smileyindifferent:</P>

[Carna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>It really doesn't matter, I could tell you were a [Removed for Content] and "full of it" with your first post. Not that I wanta sit here and play "my dad can beat up your dad" with your juvenile insults. Get back to me in a few years when you can match wit.</FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Bottom line is: you just don't have a clue what you're talking about - that alone alleviates any insult you could possibly throw at me.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>BTW - Stop making assumptions, you're only making an a s s out of yourself kiddo.</FONT></P> <DIV><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Irony is a man who claims to have played 22 out of 24 classes to level 70 trying to patronise somebody.</P> <P>Saying you're a liar isn't a name calling exercise. It's making an asserion that what you're laying claim to is false.... Why am I bothering to make such an assertion?... Because you're predicating a (rather agressive) argument upon a fallacious background.</P> <P>How can I make such an outageous assertion? For the same reason that if we open up a book on your claim being baseless people will run to hand me their money. It's not a question of either wit or erudition, you've simply be called on an outrageously boastful claim. You might as well be claiming that the Little Baby Jesus powerlevels you when you're asleep.</P>

[Gailstryd]

<P>Yo don't knock on baby jesus he's got l33t skillz and he'll pwn yo [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you don't watch it........  His guild is like the best one eva!</P> <P>On that note I need to go see Teladaga Nights (sp) rofl WILL FERREL FTW!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>YOU BEEN DERAILED BEOTCH!</P>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Carnagh wrote:</P> <P><BR>Irony is a man who claims to have played 22 out of 24 classes to level 70 trying to patronise somebody.</P> <P>Saying you're a liar isn't a name calling exercise. It's making an asserion that what you're laying claim to is false.... Why am I bothering to make such an assertion?... Because you're predicating a (rather agressive) argument upon a fallacious background.</P> <P>How can I make such an outageous assertion? For the same reason that if we open up a book on your claim being baseless people will run to hand me their money. It's not a question of either wit or erudition, you've simply be called on an outrageously boastful claim. <FONT color=#ff0000>You might as well be claiming that the Little Baby Jesus powerlevels you when you're asleep.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Does the Baby Jesus have a website for powerleveling toons? How does one go about requesting his services?? :smileywink:<BR>