Anyone know if SOE has any plans to un-nerf rangers?

Akie · 09-18-2006, 07:28 PM

I recently betrayed an Assassin into a Ranger on a PvP server. Man there sure was a big diff in DPS - I even upgraded some of my gear and I did half the DPS I did as an Assassin.

Now, my question is this:

Assassins have insane DPS with their CA's. They have the ability to transfer hate to the tank, giving them even more value in a raid over a ranger. Rangers just have that stupid hawk, not even as close to as valuable as the hate transfer.

Rangers have one big CA that takes forever to cast (making it almost useless in PvP and on a raid, since the casting time pretty much will take you off the parse DPS wise and so far being that either I'm seen before it goes off in PvP, or they have moved and are out of range) Granted it has a stun and a knock back, which is cool, it still does way less damage than Decap and takes 10x longer to cast making it almost worthless and little used other than as a novelty for trying to drop a big hit now and then.

Here's the big problem - On pvp servers this basically cuts Qeynos DPS in half on a raid making it MUCH harder for Qeynos to ever raid any end game stuff, since rangers are suppose to be the high DPS scout for the Q side.

Would be really nice to know if SOE has any plans to fix this either world wide, or at least on the PvP servers so Qeynos can catch up to FP content wise.

Thanks!

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 08:37 AM

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 08:38 AM

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 08:41 AM

Jay · 09-18-2006, 08:16 PM

Akient wrote:

Here's the big problem - On pvp servers this basically cuts Qeynos DPS in half on a raid making it MUCH harder for Qeynos to ever raid any end game stuff, since rangers are suppose to be the high DPS scout for the Q side.

Would be really nice to know if SOE has any plans to fix this either world wide, or at least on the PvP servers so Qeynos can catch up to FP content wise.

Thanks!

Being from PvE, I never really considered how our DPS would affect Qeynos guilds in PvP. That kinda sucks, being stuck in that situation. Guess swashies get to be the uber DPS scout for Qeynos. SMILEY

Judist · 09-18-2006, 08:24 PM

If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS.

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 09-18-2006 09:25 AM

BSbon · 09-18-2006, 08:27 PM

Akient wrote:

Rangers have one big CA that takes forever to cast (making it almost useless in PvP and on a raid, since the casting time pretty much will take you off the parse DPS wise and so far being that either I'm seen before it goes off in PvP, or they have moved and are out of range) Granted it has a stun and a knock back, which is cool, it still does way less damage than Decap and takes 10x longer to cast making it almost worthless and little used other than as a novelty for trying to drop a big hit now and then.

the way casting ranged CAs was changed a little while back. once you start casting the mob can move up to 2.5 times the distance of the CA and still be in ranged. are you attacking something running past you?

Akie · 09-18-2006, 09:23 PM

This is in PvP - so, it must be different - typically two things will happen:

1) I'll get in range of someone, they'll stand there for a few sec's and run off - then while SS is casting since it takes so long, they're out of range.

2) They other likely thing to happen is that I'll be spotted and get hit while casting in PvP because of the long cast time, which will cancel the shot since I'm no longer stealthed.

Basically this makes this CA almost useless against anyone in PvP ( that's not AFK ). It makes it useless in PvE because the long cast time pulls away from your DPS. I really don't understand why our top damage CA should take 3 years to cast. It already does significantly less damage than decap does. Decap casts really fast.

It seems like the guy in charge of developing scouts has a big time assassin biast.

Akie · 09-18-2006, 09:30 PM

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If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS.

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This is not the first ranger I've played. The first level 70 ranger, sure.

I have a decent Legendary level 64 bow that has a DPS rating of 78.9 - I parse pretty low if I'm burning CA's or just using Honed / Instinct and auto'ing.

The purpose of this thread is to say that ranger CA's have issues that need fixing. CA's should be the source of our most damage, that's the way the game was designed. I think most any ranger that does endgame would agree that our DPS should be way higher. Most decent guilds don't want rangers because they have much less use than an assassin at this point. Every class should be able to contribute or bring something unique and usefull to a raid, currently rangers are really lacking this. If you're on a PvP server, Qeynos side, you can forget about every being able to clear DT or anything hard. Sony definately hasn't provided Qeynos with enough DPS, especially in a situation like this.

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 10:32 AM

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 10:35 AM

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 10:36 AM

Davcre · 09-18-2006, 09:44 PM

Akient wrote:

This is in PvP - so, it must be different - typically two things will happen:

1) I'll get in range of someone, they'll stand there for a few sec's and run off - then while SS is casting since it takes so long, they're out of range.

2) They other likely thing to happen is that I'll be spotted and get hit while casting in PvP because of the long cast time, which will cancel the shot since I'm no longer stealthed.

Basically this makes this CA almost useless against anyone in PvP ( that's not AFK ). It makes it useless in PvE because the long cast time pulls away from your DPS. I really don't understand why our top damage CA should take 3 years to cast. It already does significantly less damage than decap does. Decap casts really fast.

It seems like the guy in charge of developing scouts has a big time assassin biast.

i agree...and the only thing that i can ever come up with is that this the price we pay for being able to attack from such long distances

it sucks how fast other classes can get off their big attacks, and most of them while moving no less... :smileysad:

I don't think the answer is heading up certain AA lines to "fix" a class that, in all honesty, doesn't seem to be working the same as the other classes (ie, auto attack being main DPS)

Sirlutt · 09-18-2006, 09:53 PM

i am guessing there was a really really really really good reason you saw fit to use the "fix" they put in the game for Ranger DPs ... on your assassin ?.. it wasnt meant for that man .. betrayal was meant to "fix" Rangers SMILEY

LoreLady · 09-18-2006, 09:58 PM

BeatinGuts wrote:

If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS.
Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 09-18-2006 09:25 AM

Ummm.. Bow dps = melee dps untill you get the summon ammo bows... and those dont come out till you start raiding, this player obviesly started playing a ranger and isent at raidlevel yet.. And yes - assassins have a large diffrence in dps CA wise than rangers.. We are just playing catchup while we are raiding SMILEY

.

Akie · 09-18-2006, 10:19 PM

Previous Previous comment:

My belief is that every class should be balanced and have something unique to contribute or some abilites to make them just as much saught after for raids as the next class. Yeah yeah, perfect world and all that. I've played most classes in raids at the level 70 level and rangers are just one that I've noticed that need the most fixing...

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 11:21 AM

Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 11:27 AM

Raahl · 09-19-2006, 04:48 PM

I don't PvP and have not raided with my Ranger yet, so my view is probably very different from a PvP'er or Raid Ranger..

I have always been very happy with my DPS as a ranger and I'm not even up to the nice raid equipment. Perhaps the reason I'm happy is because I don't parse, so I never try and compare myself to other classes.

TwistedFaith · 09-19-2006, 04:55 PM

Ranger DPS is fine in groups, just that when you get to the endgame (raids) then you really begin to see huge flaws in the class.We have no utlity and our dps in my opinion is weak compared to Assasins and Rogues who all offer a LOT more to the raid than a ranger can at present.Dont fight it, SoE will fix rangers if they see fit but honestly us not doing the DPS we are supposed to be doing on raids isnt a game breaking issue for them so I have serious doubts wether anything worthwhile will be done.I am curious about the new class specific AA lines especially the Rogue lines. If they continue to offer rogues ubah utlity and essential AA skills then there will be little point to ever take a ranger on a raid.

Teksun · 09-19-2006, 05:22 PM

Well said Valley.Until we get our Ranger only AA's there's no telling whether we will be 'fixed' or not. I won't hold my breath, but I sure won't wuit either. Even if we get the shaft again SMILEY

Davcre · 09-19-2006, 05:36 PM

Teksun wrote:
Well said Valley.

Until we get our Ranger only AA's there's no telling whether we will be 'fixed' or not. I won't hold my breath, but I sure won't wuit either. Even if we get the shaft again

and I've got to toss it out again, we shouldn't have to rely on AA lines to fix the class....DPS being what it should be or not aside, the fact the auto attacks offer a better DPS than CAs seems to be out of line with every other class in the game

Teksun · 09-19-2006, 05:39 PM

I agree Dav, but I also know that it 'ain't gonna happen'. Dev's think we are fine. So be it. I just hope that we get a little more 'something' with the aa's. It's our only hope Obi Wan.

Gareorn · 09-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Anyone know if SOE has any plans to un-nerf rangers?

Since they have stated that they think we are where we are suppose to be. I'll have to answer the question with a no. I don't think they have any plans to fix Rangers.

Davcre · 09-19-2006, 06:02 PM

Teksun wrote:
It's our only hope Obi Wan.

:smileysurprised:

Akie · 09-19-2006, 07:04 PM

A simple parse would show that we're not where we're suppose to be. If every class should have an equal benefit to a raid or a group, tell me what a ranger can do that an assassin can't do better? That is in no way fair. An assassin should have something he can do that's valuable to a raid or a group and a ranger should have something he can do just as valuable. The DPS of an Assassin and a ranger should be identical. Assassin would do his biggest damage close, ranger at range, that's the only difference there should be.

I think it's obvious that two different devs were in charge of each class, too bad we got the one that likes to put long delays and low damage on our CA's.

Jay · 09-19-2006, 08:43 PM

Preachin' to the choir, my man. SMILEY

Raahl · 09-19-2006, 09:05 PM

Teksun wrote:
I agree Dav, but I also know that it 'ain't gonna happen'. Dev's think we are fine. So be it. I just hope that we get a little more 'something' with the aa's. It's our only hope Obi Wan.

Heck the Dev's thought Guardians were fine, but in KoS made them more viable and fun to play via the AA's. So don't give up. SMILEY

Sirlutt · 09-19-2006, 09:13 PM

Akient wrote:

A simple parse would show that we're not where we're suppose to be. If every class should have an equal benefit to a raid or a group, tell me what a ranger can do that an assassin can't do better? That is in no way fair. An assassin should have something he can do that's valuable to a raid or a group and a ranger should have something he can do just as valuable. The DPS of an Assassin and a ranger should be identical. Assassin would do his biggest damage close, ranger at range, that's the only difference there should be.

I think it's obvious that two different devs were in charge of each class, too bad we got the one that likes to put long delays and low damage on our CA's.

With the right equipment, they are pretty similar. And you guys have the hawk..its supposed to be fixed and be teh awesomesss!

Akie · 09-19-2006, 11:26 PM

I'm sure an assassin would say that, but the truth is; assassins always stay on top of our DPS regardless of gear - I've seen assassins with crap for gear smoke tricked out rangers without even mashing CA's hard. It's a combination of the fact that their CA's do so much damage along with having very fast casting timers.

Ranger CA's = worthless | Long casting times, low damage: just take a look at stream shot, rofl, what a joke, who even uses that, it's worthless. You can get better DPS with a level 30 bow than you can with Stream. It just seems like we got the window licker of devs when they created ranger CA's.

I truely believe, if enough of us complain and keep hounding Sony that rangers need some fixing, something will be done.

With the exception of a few people (probably lazy and don't really care and like being middle of the parse so they can go afk without anyone knowing), Rangers need some MAJOR MAJOR upgrades on their CA's.

I say we all start some sort of protest of some kind; something that will get the attention of the brass, until they agree to release some tweaks in the next update. I think it's very possible that they're aware some people think there is a problem with rangers, but, never TRUELY have taken a look or payed it much mind. Let's get someone to SERIOUSLY take a look at what we're complaining about. If Sony can't see the problem, let's show it to them. I'm sick of just sucking it up and hoping they do something eventually. Let's do something about it instead of complaining on these forums that the devs probably don't even read!

Who's with me?

Katsugen · 09-20-2006, 12:25 AM

Akient wrote:

I'm sure an assassin would say that, but the truth is; assassins always stay on top of our DPS regardless of gear - I've seen assassins with crap for gear smoke tricked out rangers without even mashing CA's hard. It's a combination of the fact that their CA's do so much damage along with having very fast casting timers.

Ranger CA's = worthless | Long casting times, low damage: just take a look at stream shot, rofl, what a joke, who even uses that, it's worthless. You can get better DPS with a level 30 bow than you can with Stream. It just seems like we got the window licker of devs when they created ranger CA's.

I truely believe, if enough of us complain and keep hounding Sony that rangers need some fixing, something will be done.

With the exception of a few people (probably lazy and don't really care and like being middle of the parse so they can go afk without anyone knowing), Rangers need some MAJOR MAJOR upgrades on their CA's.

I say we all start some sort of protest of some kind; something that will get the attention of the brass, until they agree to release some tweaks in the next update. I think it's very possible that they're aware some people think there is a problem with rangers, but, never TRUELY have taken a look or payed it much mind. Let's get someone to SERIOUSLY take a look at what we're complaining about. If Sony can't see the problem, let's show it to them. I'm sick of just sucking it up and hoping they do something eventually. Let's do something about it instead of complaining on these forums that the devs probably don't even read!

Who's with me?

And how do you propose we do that? I think the problem is that we need help from some of the really highend guilds that have rangers. I don't know if there are that many guilds that are willing to share such data with us. I ask just about every chance I get, but I don't really get responses. Second Dawn has been pretty cool about posting parses, maybe we can get them to do a little test for us. Problem is I know I'd want to see a zone wide parse (maybe DT or HOS) w/ a full raid busting thier butts to top that parse, with a good variety of dps. Problem is that might be too much to ask. All these zones that are on farm status don't always get good turn out, or ppl busting thier butts, they are gonna take who shows up cuz they are so easy now that raid setup doesn't need to be optimized at all to stroll through these zones.

-Katsugen

Jayad · 09-20-2006, 01:46 AM

It seems like those Rangers who parse up pretty high and say things are alright all are using auto-attacks to do it. CAs being secondary. OK, let's take that as a moment for being true. If that's the case, they need to reduce the important of bow DR, ammo, etc. and improve our CAs.

I'm not sure what % of the damage is due to using a T8 rare ammo with a T7 fabled bow, but it's ridiculous that this would be the way we're supposed to match up. And needing haste+dps buffs.

I'm not sure I will ever get a nice T7 bow with ANOTHER bow to get T8 rare ammo. My ranger is no longer my main. Even if it were, there's only a handful of rangers who can get both of those. Meanwhile you can be all mastered out and still suck. Awesome.

Sirlutt · 09-20-2006, 02:48 AM

Xney wrote:

It seems like those Rangers who parse up pretty high and say things are alright all are using auto-attacks to do it. CAs being secondary. OK, let's take that as a moment for being true. If that's the case, they need to reduce the important of bow DR, ammo, etc. and improve our CAs.

I'm not sure what % of the damage is due to using a T8 rare ammo with a T7 fabled bow, but it's ridiculous that this would be the way we're supposed to match up. And needing haste+dps buffs.

I'm not sure I will ever get a nice T7 bow with ANOTHER bow to get T8 rare ammo. My ranger is no longer my main. Even if it were, there's only a handful of rangers who can get both of those. Meanwhile you can be all mastered out and still suck. Awesome.

Why rediculous ?.. assassins need specific good equipment to be at the top of their game, and good groups aswell.. Grinning Dirk of Horror made my DPs jump quite a bit .. and I need to have as much haste as possible.. being stuck in the MT group I tend to parse only average.. about 900-1300. I get beat regularly by Brigands, Zerkers and the other DPs classes, including our Ranger who doesnt have her awesome bows yet. I know when she does she wil be right up on top like she usually is.When I am in a good group with good haste its a diff story, I parse right up with everyone else at 1200-1800.

Mirdo · 09-20-2006, 02:59 AM

I think ridiculous Sirlutt because T8 ammo summoning bows only drop in DT (one relatively rare from Tari) and the Venekor bow is also *quite* a rare drop (from the boss mob of a relatively tricky zone). These are the things that make the biggest difference to our DPS once masters etc are taken care of.GDoH, although a quite rare drop, drops off the first easy *easy* boss in a zone requiring no access - the differences should be immediately apparent.Oh, and one of our highest parsers is our guild Assassin when in our MT grp - he complains when he isn't in there because of buffing. Not sure why your MT grp doesn't allow you the same benefits. Our assassin in the MT grp is hitting upwards of 1.9k single target. Our standard MT grp is no different from the usual - Guard, Defiler, Templar, Warden, Dirge/Coercer/Assassin depending who is on.That's one of the problems trying to wade through the DPS maze - all guilds are structured differently. Our last HoS raid F ex. was a pretty reliable 18-20k raid dps through the zone. That effects the overall DPS score for each toon in the raid.Mirdo.

Message Edited by Mirdo on 09-20-2006 12:09 AM

Gerdos · 09-20-2006, 06:07 AM

There's something about this thread that really gets to me. I've tried to resist posting anything about it, but each time i read through it, it just grates on my nerves.

For starters, Akient, i dont agree with any of your posts. I also read the complaints you make re: PvP mechanics and notice your style of play and see things you should be doing, but don't to counter the problems you encounter. I would suggest part of the problem is your style of play and how you've setup your AA line. I would also suggest to fully understand ALL CA available to you and use them at the appropriate times ... we have some very nice (often neglected) CAs that can really make a big difference in any situation.

Secondly, taking parses to show the problem as you describe it, wont help, because that problem doesn't exist. In every situation, soloing, grouping or raiding .. rangers are still very good to great and are still T1 DPS. I've got no doubt about that, nor do a few other high end rangers. Sure, rangers need to work harder then other classes to reach high DPS levels, and our DPS is also more subjective to our equipment and group setup then other classes .. but in my experience, rangers are almost where they need to be. We need very few, minor changes to bring us to the same level as assassins.

(and even then, only the best assassin players, best equiped and those who put in 100% effort will beat an equivalent ranger)

Re: AA lines, they are there to be used in a way that suits an individuals style of play. There's only 3 realisticly useful AA setups that rangers might use .. each valid. Improve our already existing strengths, overcome our existing weaknesses, or a balance between the 2. I would suggest you rethink your AA setup based on your complaints.

Rangers were nerfed badly with the last expansion, but minor fixes since then brought us back to T1 a long time ago. There's simply too much evidence against your arguments to suggest rangers are still nerfed, need major changes and are not T1 DPS.

Message Edited by Gerdos on 09-20-2006 01:24 PM

LoreLady · 09-20-2006, 02:18 PM

Gerdos wrote:

There's something about this thread that really gets to me. I've tried to resist posting anything about it, but each time i read through it, it just grates on my nerves.

For starters, Akient, i dont agree with any of your posts. I also read the complaints you make re: PvP mechanics and notice your style of play and see things you should be doing, but don't to counter the problems you encounter. I would suggest part of the problem is your style of play and how you've setup your AA line. I would also suggest to fully understand ALL CA available to you and use them at the appropriate times ... we have some very nice (often neglected) CAs that can really make a big difference in any situation.

Secondly, taking parses to show the problem as you describe it, wont help, because that problem doesn't exist. In every situation, soloing, grouping or raiding .. rangers are still very good to great and are still T1 DPS. I've got no doubt about that, nor do a few other high end rangers. Sure, rangers need to work harder then other classes to reach high DPS levels, and our DPS is also more subjective to our equipment and group setup then other classes .. but in my experience, rangers are almost where they need to be. We need very few, minor changes to bring us to the same level as assassins.

(and even then, only the best assassin players, best equiped and those who put in 100% effort will beat an equivalent ranger)

Re: AA lines, they are there to be used in a way that suits an individuals style of play. There's only 3 realisticly useful AA setups that rangers might use .. each valid. Improve our already existing strengths, overcome our existing weaknesses, or a balance between the 2. I would suggest you rethink your AA setup based on your complaints.

Rangers were nerfed badly with the last expansion, but minor fixes since then brought us back to T1 a long time ago. There's simply too much evidence against your arguments to suggest rangers are still nerfed, need major changes and are not T1 DPS.
Message Edited by Gerdos on 09-20-2006 01:24 PM

Theres to much evidence otherwise.. The total damages on all our CA's our similar, however our cast times are not and the only thing to outweigh this is by our offensive proc wich helps but does not ballance.Now heres the main problem - rangers start off without worrying about hate in the start of the raid progression.. Wizards, warlocks, summoners, rouges have to be consious about there hate.. A ranger does not, so the ranger is goign to parse higher because he/she is not burdend by hate.. However, once the raid continues hate nolonger becomes an issue for many of these classes.. And dps jumps ahead alot as classes like rouges, zerkers, guardians get the good 1handers.. This jumps there auto attack to 600-1000 dps depending on haste. And once you start this trend, rangers start to fall behind and maintain 1.2k that ranger was doing when he started raiding.When talking assassins though - its a diffrent story all together.. Assassins are ontop of rangers in CA damage, when our assassin shows up to raids with his adept 3-s.. and my master ones, he does more damage.. Why?? Because he has 20-30% extra time in his CA's per CA, so this comes down to a large diffrence.Now - there is one and only one unknown to put in to state otherwise.. The use of t8 ammo with the best bow, to mark at 500 int. Understand that no one can calculate the damage of t8 ammo to t7, and mark is very random. If someone can prove that t8 ammo outweighs mark and does 20-30% more dps ontop of that then all arguements towards rangers being in the shortbuss right now are moot.Also - one more thing I want to point out.. Possible fix's include ranger double attack,a boost on our proc, an extra proc, a reduction of our cast times.PS - Assassins also need there ranged arts changed to lower cast times, that is something I *strongly* put forward as well.

Message Edited by LoreLady on 09-20-2006 03:20 AM

Akie · 09-21-2006, 01:51 AM

Gerdos - probably 1 out of 99 people that might know a thing or two about rangers would disagree like you have.

As for AA lines, there's not many choices for a ranger, I don't think AA line choices will make any significant difference in DPS, unless you're a total [Removed for Content].

If you don't agree with any of my posts, you're lazy and you like being thought of as a sub par DPS class so you can turn on auto attack on raids and go AFK.

All I can say is you're totally wrong Gerdos and about 99x more people agree with me than do with you.

I have leveled / played almost every class to 70 - I have raided with some top guilds and killed everything that's been killed in EQ2 to date. Ranger is the one class I play that I notice a BIG difference which requires fixing. I don't want to be a broken record here, so I'll just say that I fully disagree with you and your comments suggest to me that you really don't pay much attention to what this thread is talking about.

Gerdos · 09-21-2006, 05:05 AM

Akient wrote:

Gerdos - probably 1 out of 99 people that might know a thing or two about rangers would disagree like you have.

As for AA lines, there's not many choices for a ranger, I don't think AA line choices will make any significant difference in DPS, unless you're a total [Removed for Content].

When i wrote about AA lines, i was referring to (your) style of play, although i didn't relate this to DPS, the connection is obvious to all. The choice of AA lines can have a significant different to DPS, while different DPS AA lines has subtle affect on how DPS is gained, but the difference becomes more noticeable when comparing zonewide merged parses.

If you don't agree with any of my posts, you're lazy and you like being thought of as a sub par DPS class so you can turn on auto attack on raids and go AFK.

I dont have problems with people complaining or offering constructive critisism , its just your whiney tone, obvious lack of skills/understanding and the missleading information you present that grates on my nerves. Re-read through your whiney posts and compare it to what i post ... before posting something so stupid.

All I can say is you're totally wrong Gerdos and about 99x more people agree with me than do with you.

I could also pull figures out of a hat, and even if 99x more people agreed with you, it doesn't mean they would be right. Simply put, while a handfull of rangers are able to parse what we parse and play the way we play in solo, group or raid, and the developers do their testing ... the evidence works against your arguments.

I have leveled / played almost every class to 70 - I have raided with some top guilds and killed everything that's been killed in EQ2 to date. Ranger is the one class I play that I notice a BIG difference which requires fixing. I don't want to be a broken record here, so I'll just say that I fully disagree with you and your comments suggest to me that you really don't pay much attention to what this thread is talking about.
It's impossible for me to take you serious based on your posts, but your entitled to your opinions, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

09-18-2006, 08:16 PM	#2
Jay General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,137	Akient wrote: Here's the big problem - On pvp servers this basically cuts Qeynos DPS in half on a raid making it MUCH harder for Qeynos to ever raid any end game stuff, since rangers are suppose to be the high DPS scout for the Q side. Would be really nice to know if SOE has any plans to fix this either world wide, or at least on the PvP servers so Qeynos can catch up to FP content wise. Thanks! Being from PvE, I never really considered how our DPS would affect Qeynos guilds in PvP. That kinda sucks, being stuck in that situation. Guess swashies get to be the uber DPS scout for Qeynos. __________________

09-18-2006, 08:27 PM	#4
BSbon General Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 605	Akient wrote: Rangers have one big CA that takes forever to cast (making it almost useless in PvP and on a raid, since the casting time pretty much will take you off the parse DPS wise and so far being that either I'm seen before it goes off in PvP, or they have moved and are out of range) Granted it has a stun and a knock back, which is cool, it still does way less damage than Decap and takes 10x longer to cast making it almost worthless and little used other than as a novelty for trying to drop a big hit now and then. the way casting ranged CAs was changed a little while back. once you start casting the mob can move up to 2.5 times the distance of the CA and still be in ranged. are you attacking something running past you? __________________ Click Here for Amazing Superteam Comics updated Tuesday and Thursday " width="360" height="81">

09-18-2006, 09:44 PM	#7
Davcre Lord Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 15	Akient wrote: This is in PvP - so, it must be different - typically two things will happen: 1) I'll get in range of someone, they'll stand there for a few sec's and run off - then while SS is casting since it takes so long, they're out of range. 2) They other likely thing to happen is that I'll be spotted and get hit while casting in PvP because of the long cast time, which will cancel the shot since I'm no longer stealthed. Basically this makes this CA almost useless against anyone in PvP ( that's not AFK ). It makes it useless in PvE because the long cast time pulls away from your DPS. I really don't understand why our top damage CA should take 3 years to cast. It already does significantly less damage than decap does. Decap casts really fast. It seems like the guy in charge of developing scouts has a big time assassin biast. i agree...and the only thing that i can ever come up with is that this the price we pay for being able to attack from such long distances it sucks how fast other classes can get off their big attacks, and most of them while moving no less... :smileysad: I don't think the answer is heading up certain AA lines to "fix" a class that, in all honesty, doesn't seem to be working the same as the other classes (ie, auto attack being main DPS) __________________ ~ Davcre ~ Xegonite Terror

09-18-2006, 09:53 PM	#8
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	i am guessing there was a really really really really good reason you saw fit to use the "fix" they put in the game for Ranger DPs ... on your assassin ?.. it wasnt meant for that man .. betrayal was meant to "fix" Rangers __________________ I heart DE Broads

09-18-2006, 09:58 PM	#9
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	BeatinGuts wrote: If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS. Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 09-18-2006 09:25 AM Ummm.. Bow dps = melee dps untill you get the summon ammo bows... and those dont come out till you start raiding, this player obviesly started playing a ranger and isent at raidlevel yet.. And yes - assassins have a large diffrence in dps CA wise than rangers.. We are just playing catchup while we are raiding . __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

09-18-2006, 07:28 PM	#1
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	I recently betrayed an Assassin into a Ranger on a PvP server. Man there sure was a big diff in DPS - I even upgraded some of my gear and I did half the DPS I did as an Assassin. Now, my question is this: Assassins have insane DPS with their CA's. They have the ability to transfer hate to the tank, giving them even more value in a raid over a ranger. Rangers just have that stupid hawk, not even as close to as valuable as the hate transfer. Rangers have one big CA that takes forever to cast (making it almost useless in PvP and on a raid, since the casting time pretty much will take you off the parse DPS wise and so far being that either I'm seen before it goes off in PvP, or they have moved and are out of range) Granted it has a stun and a knock back, which is cool, it still does way less damage than Decap and takes 10x longer to cast making it almost worthless and little used other than as a novelty for trying to drop a big hit now and then. Here's the big problem - On pvp servers this basically cuts Qeynos DPS in half on a raid making it MUCH harder for Qeynos to ever raid any end game stuff, since rangers are suppose to be the high DPS scout for the Q side. Would be really nice to know if SOE has any plans to fix this either world wide, or at least on the PvP servers so Qeynos can catch up to FP content wise. Thanks! Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 08:37 AM Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 08:38 AM Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 08:41 AM

09-18-2006, 08:24 PM	#3
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS. Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 09-18-2006 09:25 AM

09-18-2006, 09:23 PM	#5
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	This is in PvP - so, it must be different - typically two things will happen: 1) I'll get in range of someone, they'll stand there for a few sec's and run off - then while SS is casting since it takes so long, they're out of range. 2) They other likely thing to happen is that I'll be spotted and get hit while casting in PvP because of the long cast time, which will cancel the shot since I'm no longer stealthed. Basically this makes this CA almost useless against anyone in PvP ( that's not AFK ). It makes it useless in PvE because the long cast time pulls away from your DPS. I really don't understand why our top damage CA should take 3 years to cast. It already does significantly less damage than decap does. Decap casts really fast. It seems like the guy in charge of developing scouts has a big time assassin biast.

09-18-2006, 09:30 PM	#6
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If this is the first ranger you've played, expecially after playing an assasin for a while, you just need to learn the class. Ranger DPS dosent come from CA's. It comes from bows that can do 1k per hit and 3k+ crits. This is from an ordinary bow, get a fabled T7 longbow and WOW. Max your haste and max your crit chance (as much as possible) and you'll quickly see CAs come second. You cant just spam them (like every other class) and expect good DPS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is not the first ranger I've played. The first level 70 ranger, sure. I have a decent Legendary level 64 bow that has a DPS rating of 78.9 - I parse pretty low if I'm burning CA's or just using Honed / Instinct and auto'ing. The purpose of this thread is to say that ranger CA's have issues that need fixing. CA's should be the source of our most damage, that's the way the game was designed. I think most any ranger that does endgame would agree that our DPS should be way higher. Most decent guilds don't want rangers because they have much less use than an assassin at this point. Every class should be able to contribute or bring something unique and usefull to a raid, currently rangers are really lacking this. If you're on a PvP server, Qeynos side, you can forget about every being able to clear DT or anything hard. Sony definately hasn't provided Qeynos with enough DPS, especially in a situation like this. Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 10:32 AM Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 10:35 AM Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 10:36 AM

09-18-2006, 10:19 PM	#10
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Previous Previous comment: My belief is that every class should be balanced and have something unique to contribute or some abilites to make them just as much saught after for raids as the next class. Yeah yeah, perfect world and all that. I've played most classes in raids at the level 70 level and rangers are just one that I've noticed that need the most fixing... Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 11:21 AM Message Edited by Akient on 09-18-2006 11:27 AM

09-19-2006, 04:48 PM	#11
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	I don't PvP and have not raided with my Ranger yet, so my view is probably very different from a PvP'er or Raid Ranger.. I have always been very happy with my DPS as a ranger and I'm not even up to the nice raid equipment. Perhaps the reason I'm happy is because I don't parse, so I never try and compare myself to other classes. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

09-19-2006, 04:55 PM	#12
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	Ranger DPS is fine in groups, just that when you get to the endgame (raids) then you really begin to see huge flaws in the class.We have no utlity and our dps in my opinion is weak compared to Assasins and Rogues who all offer a LOT more to the raid than a ranger can at present.Dont fight it, SoE will fix rangers if they see fit but honestly us not doing the DPS we are supposed to be doing on raids isnt a game breaking issue for them so I have serious doubts wether anything worthwhile will be done.I am curious about the new class specific AA lines especially the Rogue lines. If they continue to offer rogues ubah utlity and essential AA skills then there will be little point to ever take a ranger on a raid.

09-19-2006, 05:22 PM	#13
Teksun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,048	Well said Valley.Until we get our Ranger only AA's there's no telling whether we will be 'fixed' or not. I won't hold my breath, but I sure won't wuit either. Even if we get the shaft again __________________ Nerf the Hobbits

09-19-2006, 05:36 PM	#14
Davcre Lord Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 15	Teksun wrote: Well said Valley. Until we get our Ranger only AA's there's no telling whether we will be 'fixed' or not. I won't hold my breath, but I sure won't wuit either. Even if we get the shaft again and I've got to toss it out again, we shouldn't have to rely on AA lines to fix the class....DPS being what it should be or not aside, the fact the auto attacks offer a better DPS than CAs seems to be out of line with every other class in the game __________________ ~ Davcre ~ Xegonite Terror

09-19-2006, 05:39 PM	#15
Teksun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,048	I agree Dav, but I also know that it 'ain't gonna happen'. Dev's think we are fine. So be it. I just hope that we get a little more 'something' with the aa's. It's our only hope Obi Wan. __________________ Nerf the Hobbits

09-19-2006, 05:41 PM	#16
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	Anyone know if SOE has any plans to un-nerf rangers? Since they have stated that they think we are where we are suppose to be. I'll have to answer the question with a no. I don't think they have any plans to fix Rangers. __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

09-19-2006, 06:02 PM	#17
Davcre Lord Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 15	Teksun wrote: It's our only hope Obi Wan. :smileysurprised: __________________ ~ Davcre ~ Xegonite Terror

09-19-2006, 07:04 PM	#18
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	A simple parse would show that we're not where we're suppose to be. If every class should have an equal benefit to a raid or a group, tell me what a ranger can do that an assassin can't do better? That is in no way fair. An assassin should have something he can do that's valuable to a raid or a group and a ranger should have something he can do just as valuable. The DPS of an Assassin and a ranger should be identical. Assassin would do his biggest damage close, ranger at range, that's the only difference there should be. I think it's obvious that two different devs were in charge of each class, too bad we got the one that likes to put long delays and low damage on our CA's.

09-19-2006, 08:43 PM	#19
Jay General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,137	Preachin' to the choir, my man. __________________

09-19-2006, 09:05 PM	#20
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	Teksun wrote: I agree Dav, but I also know that it 'ain't gonna happen'. Dev's think we are fine. So be it. I just hope that we get a little more 'something' with the aa's. It's our only hope Obi Wan. Heck the Dev's thought Guardians were fine, but in KoS made them more viable and fun to play via the AA's. So don't give up. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

09-19-2006, 09:13 PM	#21
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	Akient wrote: A simple parse would show that we're not where we're suppose to be. If every class should have an equal benefit to a raid or a group, tell me what a ranger can do that an assassin can't do better? That is in no way fair. An assassin should have something he can do that's valuable to a raid or a group and a ranger should have something he can do just as valuable. The DPS of an Assassin and a ranger should be identical. Assassin would do his biggest damage close, ranger at range, that's the only difference there should be. I think it's obvious that two different devs were in charge of each class, too bad we got the one that likes to put long delays and low damage on our CA's. With the right equipment, they are pretty similar. And you guys have the hawk..its supposed to be fixed and be teh awesomesss! __________________ I heart DE Broads

09-19-2006, 11:26 PM	#22
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	I'm sure an assassin would say that, but the truth is; assassins always stay on top of our DPS regardless of gear - I've seen assassins with crap for gear smoke tricked out rangers without even mashing CA's hard. It's a combination of the fact that their CA's do so much damage along with having very fast casting timers. Ranger CA's = worthless \| Long casting times, low damage: just take a look at stream shot, rofl, what a joke, who even uses that, it's worthless. You can get better DPS with a level 30 bow than you can with Stream. It just seems like we got the window licker of devs when they created ranger CA's. I truely believe, if enough of us complain and keep hounding Sony that rangers need some fixing, something will be done. With the exception of a few people (probably lazy and don't really care and like being middle of the parse so they can go afk without anyone knowing), Rangers need some MAJOR MAJOR upgrades on their CA's. I say we all start some sort of protest of some kind; something that will get the attention of the brass, until they agree to release some tweaks in the next update. I think it's very possible that they're aware some people think there is a problem with rangers, but, never TRUELY have taken a look or payed it much mind. Let's get someone to SERIOUSLY take a look at what we're complaining about. If Sony can't see the problem, let's show it to them. I'm sick of just sucking it up and hoping they do something eventually. Let's do something about it instead of complaining on these forums that the devs probably don't even read! Who's with me?

09-20-2006, 12:25 AM	#23
Katsugen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 95	Akient wrote: I'm sure an assassin would say that, but the truth is; assassins always stay on top of our DPS regardless of gear - I've seen assassins with crap for gear smoke tricked out rangers without even mashing CA's hard. It's a combination of the fact that their CA's do so much damage along with having very fast casting timers. Ranger CA's = worthless \| Long casting times, low damage: just take a look at stream shot, rofl, what a joke, who even uses that, it's worthless. You can get better DPS with a level 30 bow than you can with Stream. It just seems like we got the window licker of devs when they created ranger CA's. I truely believe, if enough of us complain and keep hounding Sony that rangers need some fixing, something will be done. With the exception of a few people (probably lazy and don't really care and like being middle of the parse so they can go afk without anyone knowing), Rangers need some MAJOR MAJOR upgrades on their CA's. I say we all start some sort of protest of some kind; something that will get the attention of the brass, until they agree to release some tweaks in the next update. I think it's very possible that they're aware some people think there is a problem with rangers, but, never TRUELY have taken a look or payed it much mind. Let's get someone to SERIOUSLY take a look at what we're complaining about. If Sony can't see the problem, let's show it to them. I'm sick of just sucking it up and hoping they do something eventually. Let's do something about it instead of complaining on these forums that the devs probably don't even read! Who's with me? And how do you propose we do that? I think the problem is that we need help from some of the really highend guilds that have rangers. I don't know if there are that many guilds that are willing to share such data with us. I ask just about every chance I get, but I don't really get responses. Second Dawn has been pretty cool about posting parses, maybe we can get them to do a little test for us. Problem is I know I'd want to see a zone wide parse (maybe DT or HOS) w/ a full raid busting thier butts to top that parse, with a good variety of dps. Problem is that might be too much to ask. All these zones that are on farm status don't always get good turn out, or ppl busting thier butts, they are gonna take who shows up cuz they are so easy now that raid setup doesn't need to be optimized at all to stroll through these zones. -Katsugen

09-20-2006, 01:46 AM	#24
Jayad Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Raelyn @ Permafrost Posts: 1,306	It seems like those Rangers who parse up pretty high and say things are alright all are using auto-attacks to do it. CAs being secondary. OK, let's take that as a moment for being true. If that's the case, they need to reduce the important of bow DR, ammo, etc. and improve our CAs. I'm not sure what % of the damage is due to using a T8 rare ammo with a T7 fabled bow, but it's ridiculous that this would be the way we're supposed to match up. And needing haste+dps buffs. I'm not sure I will ever get a nice T7 bow with ANOTHER bow to get T8 rare ammo. My ranger is no longer my main. Even if it were, there's only a handful of rangers who can get both of those. Meanwhile you can be all mastered out and still suck. Awesome.

09-20-2006, 02:48 AM	#25
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	Xney wrote: It seems like those Rangers who parse up pretty high and say things are alright all are using auto-attacks to do it. CAs being secondary. OK, let's take that as a moment for being true. If that's the case, they need to reduce the important of bow DR, ammo, etc. and improve our CAs. I'm not sure what % of the damage is due to using a T8 rare ammo with a T7 fabled bow, but it's ridiculous that this would be the way we're supposed to match up. And needing haste+dps buffs. I'm not sure I will ever get a nice T7 bow with ANOTHER bow to get T8 rare ammo. My ranger is no longer my main. Even if it were, there's only a handful of rangers who can get both of those. Meanwhile you can be all mastered out and still suck. Awesome. Why rediculous ?.. assassins need specific good equipment to be at the top of their game, and good groups aswell.. Grinning Dirk of Horror made my DPs jump quite a bit .. and I need to have as much haste as possible.. being stuck in the MT group I tend to parse only average.. about 900-1300. I get beat regularly by Brigands, Zerkers and the other DPs classes, including our Ranger who doesnt have her awesome bows yet. I know when she does she wil be right up on top like she usually is.When I am in a good group with good haste its a diff story, I parse right up with everyone else at 1200-1800. __________________ I heart DE Broads

09-20-2006, 02:59 AM	#26
Mirdo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 395	I think ridiculous Sirlutt because T8 ammo summoning bows only drop in DT (one relatively rare from Tari) and the Venekor bow is also quite a rare drop (from the boss mob of a relatively tricky zone). These are the things that make the biggest difference to our DPS once masters etc are taken care of.GDoH, although a quite rare drop, drops off the first easy easy boss in a zone requiring no access - the differences should be immediately apparent.Oh, and one of our highest parsers is our guild Assassin when in our MT grp - he complains when he isn't in there because of buffing. Not sure why your MT grp doesn't allow you the same benefits. Our assassin in the MT grp is hitting upwards of 1.9k single target. Our standard MT grp is no different from the usual - Guard, Defiler, Templar, Warden, Dirge/Coercer/Assassin depending who is on.That's one of the problems trying to wade through the DPS maze - all guilds are structured differently. Our last HoS raid F ex. was a pretty reliable 18-20k raid dps through the zone. That effects the overall DPS score for each toon in the raid.Mirdo. Message Edited by Mirdo on 09-20-2006 12:09 AM

09-20-2006, 06:07 AM	#27
Gerdos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 236	There's something about this thread that really gets to me. I've tried to resist posting anything about it, but each time i read through it, it just grates on my nerves. For starters, Akient, i dont agree with any of your posts. I also read the complaints you make re: PvP mechanics and notice your style of play and see things you should be doing, but don't to counter the problems you encounter. I would suggest part of the problem is your style of play and how you've setup your AA line. I would also suggest to fully understand ALL CA available to you and use them at the appropriate times ... we have some very nice (often neglected) CAs that can really make a big difference in any situation. Secondly, taking parses to show the problem as you describe it, wont help, because that problem doesn't exist. In every situation, soloing, grouping or raiding .. rangers are still very good to great and are still T1 DPS. I've got no doubt about that, nor do a few other high end rangers. Sure, rangers need to work harder then other classes to reach high DPS levels, and our DPS is also more subjective to our equipment and group setup then other classes .. but in my experience, rangers are almost where they need to be. We need very few, minor changes to bring us to the same level as assassins. (and even then, only the best assassin players, best equiped and those who put in 100% effort will beat an equivalent ranger) Re: AA lines, they are there to be used in a way that suits an individuals style of play. There's only 3 realisticly useful AA setups that rangers might use .. each valid. Improve our already existing strengths, overcome our existing weaknesses, or a balance between the 2. I would suggest you rethink your AA setup based on your complaints. Rangers were nerfed badly with the last expansion, but minor fixes since then brought us back to T1 a long time ago. There's simply too much evidence against your arguments to suggest rangers are still nerfed, need major changes and are not T1 DPS. Message Edited by Gerdos on 09-20-2006 01:24 PM

09-20-2006, 02:18 PM	#28
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Gerdos wrote: There's something about this thread that really gets to me. I've tried to resist posting anything about it, but each time i read through it, it just grates on my nerves. For starters, Akient, i dont agree with any of your posts. I also read the complaints you make re: PvP mechanics and notice your style of play and see things you should be doing, but don't to counter the problems you encounter. I would suggest part of the problem is your style of play and how you've setup your AA line. I would also suggest to fully understand ALL CA available to you and use them at the appropriate times ... we have some very nice (often neglected) CAs that can really make a big difference in any situation. Secondly, taking parses to show the problem as you describe it, wont help, because that problem doesn't exist. In every situation, soloing, grouping or raiding .. rangers are still very good to great and are still T1 DPS. I've got no doubt about that, nor do a few other high end rangers. Sure, rangers need to work harder then other classes to reach high DPS levels, and our DPS is also more subjective to our equipment and group setup then other classes .. but in my experience, rangers are almost where they need to be. We need very few, minor changes to bring us to the same level as assassins. (and even then, only the best assassin players, best equiped and those who put in 100% effort will beat an equivalent ranger) Re: AA lines, they are there to be used in a way that suits an individuals style of play. There's only 3 realisticly useful AA setups that rangers might use .. each valid. Improve our already existing strengths, overcome our existing weaknesses, or a balance between the 2. I would suggest you rethink your AA setup based on your complaints. Rangers were nerfed badly with the last expansion, but minor fixes since then brought us back to T1 a long time ago. There's simply too much evidence against your arguments to suggest rangers are still nerfed, need major changes and are not T1 DPS. Message Edited by Gerdos on 09-20-2006 01:24 PM Theres to much evidence otherwise.. The total damages on all our CA's our similar, however our cast times are not and the only thing to outweigh this is by our offensive proc wich helps but does not ballance.Now heres the main problem - rangers start off without worrying about hate in the start of the raid progression.. Wizards, warlocks, summoners, rouges have to be consious about there hate.. A ranger does not, so the ranger is goign to parse higher because he/she is not burdend by hate.. However, once the raid continues hate nolonger becomes an issue for many of these classes.. And dps jumps ahead alot as classes like rouges, zerkers, guardians get the good 1handers.. This jumps there auto attack to 600-1000 dps depending on haste. And once you start this trend, rangers start to fall behind and maintain 1.2k that ranger was doing when he started raiding.When talking assassins though - its a diffrent story all together.. Assassins are ontop of rangers in CA damage, when our assassin shows up to raids with his adept 3-s.. and my master ones, he does more damage.. Why?? Because he has 20-30% extra time in his CA's per CA, so this comes down to a large diffrence.Now - there is one and only one unknown to put in to state otherwise.. The use of t8 ammo with the best bow, to mark at 500 int. Understand that no one can calculate the damage of t8 ammo to t7, and mark is very random. If someone can prove that t8 ammo outweighs mark and does 20-30% more dps ontop of that then all arguements towards rangers being in the shortbuss right now are moot.Also - one more thing I want to point out.. Possible fix's include ranger double attack,a boost on our proc, an extra proc, a reduction of our cast times.PS - Assassins also need there ranged arts changed to lower cast times, that is something I strongly put forward as well. Message Edited by LoreLady on 09-20-2006 03:20 AM __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

09-21-2006, 01:51 AM	#29
Akie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Gerdos - probably 1 out of 99 people that might know a thing or two about rangers would disagree like you have. As for AA lines, there's not many choices for a ranger, I don't think AA line choices will make any significant difference in DPS, unless you're a total [Removed for Content]. If you don't agree with any of my posts, you're lazy and you like being thought of as a sub par DPS class so you can turn on auto attack on raids and go AFK. All I can say is you're totally wrong Gerdos and about 99x more people agree with me than do with you. I have leveled / played almost every class to 70 - I have raided with some top guilds and killed everything that's been killed in EQ2 to date. Ranger is the one class I play that I notice a BIG difference which requires fixing. I don't want to be a broken record here, so I'll just say that I fully disagree with you and your comments suggest to me that you really don't pay much attention to what this thread is talking about.

09-21-2006, 05:05 AM	#30
Gerdos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 236	Akient wrote: Gerdos - probably 1 out of 99 people that might know a thing or two about rangers would disagree like you have. As for AA lines, there's not many choices for a ranger, I don't think AA line choices will make any significant difference in DPS, unless you're a total [Removed for Content]. When i wrote about AA lines, i was referring to (your) style of play, although i didn't relate this to DPS, the connection is obvious to all. The choice of AA lines can have a significant different to DPS, while different DPS AA lines has subtle affect on how DPS is gained, but the difference becomes more noticeable when comparing zonewide merged parses. If you don't agree with any of my posts, you're lazy and you like being thought of as a sub par DPS class so you can turn on auto attack on raids and go AFK. I dont have problems with people complaining or offering constructive critisism , its just your whiney tone, obvious lack of skills/understanding and the missleading information you present that grates on my nerves. Re-read through your whiney posts and compare it to what i post ... before posting something so stupid. All I can say is you're totally wrong Gerdos and about 99x more people agree with me than do with you. I could also pull figures out of a hat, and even if 99x more people agreed with you, it doesn't mean they would be right. Simply put, while a handfull of rangers are able to parse what we parse and play the way we play in solo, group or raid, and the developers do their testing ... the evidence works against your arguments. I have leveled / played almost every class to 70 - I have raided with some top guilds and killed everything that's been killed in EQ2 to date. Ranger is the one class I play that I notice a BIG difference which requires fixing. I don't want to be a broken record here, so I'll just say that I fully disagree with you and your comments suggest to me that you really don't pay much attention to what this thread is talking about. It's impossible for me to take you serious based on your posts, but your entitled to your opinions, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.