Be honest, where are you on the parsings?

[Crychtonn]

<P>Ya if you have Recurved already I'd just go with Ichorstrand and let someone else get Bazkul.  I have no real interest in Bazkul since I already have my free ammo and it's DR is only 4 higher then Recurved and it has a lower damage proc then Recurved.  I still think it's funny that the Legendary Sinew Wrapped from Lyceaum has a higher % and damage proc then Bazkul.  I'll never understand these item designers.</P> <P> </P>

[USAFJeeper]

<DIV>Ok, update from me on my ranger DPS.  We have done some group adjustments, I now get the benefit of the coercer.  I added Ichorstrand to my arsenal for ammo and still use the Grizz for playing.  I have concentrated on dancing around mob more to achieve a more optimum amount of damage.  I redid my Achievements to AGI and INT instead of AGI and STR.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have raised my DPS output.  I placed I think third last night behind an assassin and a swash.  Now for the sad part.  Zone wide parse of HoS (Thank you Venekor for dropping a crappy mage robe that was not even no drop and a Adept1) still put me about 300+ DPS behind the assassin and swash.   On some fights they nearly doubled my damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are good players though and I know a large part of it is their abilities in their class.  I have basically decided that by working my butt off EVERY fight I can do decent DPS.  Now, because I am lazy...  I would like to see procs that go off of melee also work off of ranged combat.  Add a couple bows to the game with a decent DR, or have Venekor drop somthing besides crap.  Shorten some recast timers.  I dont think those are game breaking suggestios, but thats where I am now after trying very hard to get better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> USAFJeeper wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would like to see procs that go off of melee also work off of ranged combat.  Add a couple bows to the game with a decent DR, or have Venekor drop somthing besides crap.  Shorten some recast timers.  I dont think those are game breaking suggestios, but thats where I am now after trying very hard to get better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/AGREE</P> <P>I don't think it'd take much - some adjustments to existing buffs to make them proc off ranged would help. Everyone should have to work for their DPS, but we seem to be stuck fighting an uphill battle in the snow for good (not great) DPS.<BR></P>

[Imlach]

<P>umm, guys flame me all you want for being a noob asking question completely out of the thread's subject but i wonder;</P> <P>that unlimited ammo you speak of, is it a speciality of those above mentioned bows? or is it a separate item yopu put in your ammo slot that gives you unlimited arrows?</P> <P> </P> <P>if it is such an item can you point me a link and tell me where it drops, if ever...</P> <P> </P> <P>thanking you in advance</P> <P> </P>

[Imlach]

<DIV>oh and i completely agree with Jay here,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we (and every class) must work for reaching great DPS values... the problem i see with us, we struggle hard to make just "OK" DPS... and it costs us too... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no matter what everyone says, or thinks about us rangers... in all the games i played online for years (dont let my post numbers fool you) the best community was and always been the rangers.. i still have faith we can make people see the problems rangers have in here...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Imlach wrote:<BR> <P>umm, guys flame me all you want for being a noob asking question completely out of the thread's subject but i wonder;</P> <P>that unlimited ammo you speak of, is it a speciality of those above mentioned bows? or is it a separate item yopu put in your ammo slot that gives you unlimited arrows?</P> <P> </P> <P>if it is such an item can you point me a link and tell me where it drops, if ever...</P> <P> </P> <P>thanking you in advance</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The ammo from Ichorstrand or Bazkul can be used with any bow.  Currently the best possible setup for a ranger is to have one of these bows for ammo and use the Ancient War bow from Venekor to shoot it with.  Downside is Venekor is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing piece of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mob with a loot table to big that drops one item off it which is usually a piece of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] no one wants or will use.</P> <P>Yes I hate Venekor if you couldn't tell.</P> <P> </P>

[MystaSkrat]

We share a common bond in hating that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing dragon. :smileyhappy:

[snowbrdr093]

<div><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div>We share a common bond in hating that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing dragon. :smileyhappy:<hr></blockquote>Yeah, I hate it too, /looks at Ancestral Sarnak War Bows rotting in guild bank. I wish he would drop something else. <span>:smileywink:</span></div>

[Dirtgirl]

<P><FONT color=#ffcc66>Stop it Rhaz!!!!!!!  :smileytongue:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc66>You're as bad as Snark.</FONT></P>

[MystaSkrat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snowbrdr093 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MystaSkratch wrote:<BR> We share a common bond in hating that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing dragon. :smileyhappy:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, I hate it too, /looks at Ancestral Sarnak War Bows rotting in guild bank. I wish he would drop something else. <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Assassins > Rangers.</P> <P>To Snark:  My rings > your rings</P> <P>To Devs: Fix rangers, however you see fit, they aren't as good as me!</P>

[Snarks]

<div><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> snowbrdr093 wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> MystaSkratch wrote: <div></div>We share a common bond in hating that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing dragon. :smileyhappy: <hr> </blockquote>Yeah, I hate it too, /looks at Ancestral Sarnak War Bows rotting in guild bank. I wish he would drop something else. <span>:smileywink:</span></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Assassins > Rangers.</p> <p>To Snark:  My rings > your rings</p> <p>To Devs: Fix rangers, however you see fit, they aren't as good as me!</p><hr></blockquote>Low blow! Talking smack in a thread I hardly even know about, for shame!</div>

[Dragonsviperz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snarkteeth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MystaSkratch wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snowbrdr093 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MystaSkratch wrote:<BR> We share a common bond in hating that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing dragon. :smileyhappy:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, I hate it too, /looks at Ancestral Sarnak War Bows rotting in guild bank. I wish he would drop something else. <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Assassins > Rangers.</P> <P>To Snark:  My rings > your rings</P> <P>To Devs: Fix rangers, however you see fit, they aren't as good as me!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Low blow! Talking smack in a thread I hardly even know about, for shame!<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Random_noob_003 > Snark</P> <P>Yea I think we all hate Venekor, or any mob that has a chance to drop a bow. Bows are probably the most rare drop in the game. Its quite annoying too, because those bows are very nice.</P>

[Spite]

<P>More toons can use bows (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> than two handers (4) but lets count he number of times i have heard - oh great another f****** two hande POS. How often do you hear that about a bow? You see more intrest in the legendry bow from Lyc than 95% of the  fabled 100+ DR two-handed weapon in the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>Cruckin 70 Zerker</P> <P>Best Quote - I am switching mains cause repair kits are cheaper than poisons and arrows.</P> <P>Message Edited by FiftyK on <SPAN class=date_text>08-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:19 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by FiftyK on <span class=date_text>08-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:38 PM</span>

[Nak]

change player casted procs such as those from warlocks and druids to proc off a successful attack rather then a successful melee attack so they can proc off bow, problem solved k thx bye <div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Naku9 wrote:change player casted procs such as those from warlocks and druids to proc off a successful attack rather then a successful melee attack so they can proc off bow, problem solved k thx bye <div></div><hr></blockquote>Unfortunatly, thats only part of the problem not the root.</div>

[nat_lyte]

        just a thought, would it be imbalancing to give rangers double atk like that of the swashy/brigand/zerker/guardian for there bow? they are the masters of the bow are they not, its not inconcievable to give them an ability  similar to that of  other available for there style? <div></div>

[MystaSkrat]

<P>Wishful thinking anyway :smileytongue:</P> <P>I'm pretty sure they're changing double attack so it won't work on ranged weapons sometime in the near future.</P>

[Spite]

Besides Double Attack is pretty overpowered now. Add that to the long delay and big damage of bows and a small number could equal way to much of a swing.

[Akie]

<P>Lockeye -</P> <P>I'm just wondering with 30 pages of feedback basically saying you're wrong if you're willing to make some changes? I think it's very apparent that rangers have no truely usefull utilites over any other class and have only middle of the line DPS on average.</P> <P>Even giving Lockeye's arguement the benefit of the doubt, saying Rangers can parse up there with some of the best, what else do they bring to the raid that another class can't bring along with even more benefit. </P> <P>Correct me if I'm wrong but; wasn't the idea of this game to make each class equally beneficial to a raid or group? Shouldn't each class have something unique and valuable they can bring along to a raid or a group? </P> <P>I think the majority will agree that right now, rangers are just second hand assassins. Everything we do, an assassin can do twice as good. Hate transfer, deaggro, damage... hell, assassins can compare to rangers by just using their bow as well, I've seen it. </P> <P>What gives man? Any plans at all to make some changes?</P>

[Akie]

<P>I'll also add my opinion on what I believe would possibly fix rangers;</P> <P>First off the problem with the DPS seems to specifically be in the end game: Why not lessen the casting times on some fo the CA's and make ranger only bow crits hit for about 30% more damage than an assassins.</P> <P>The second thing is, give us a good utility that no one else already has, one idea would be; How about a damage shield that increases HP/Mit as well? Something that can be cast on anyone in your raid.</P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 AM</span>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>For the love of everything holy, please let this thread die.  I really don't mean to be rude, but of all the threads to necro...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know your intentions are honorable.  But please, we need a break from all the DPS/utility debates.</DIV>

[Raahl]

<P>I agree!  Resurrecting a thread that is over a month since the last post just to start the arguement back up is silly.</P> <P>Perhaps we can get this one locked.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Jay]

It probably will be, since it was necro'd.

[Akie]

<P>I put some of my ideas and feelings, dont like it, just skip over it. We're all entitled to read what we want - obviously you had the urge to click this thread and come read it again, no one forced you. I think it's stupid for someone to complain about a thread that get's bumped up because someone makes a comment on it. Make it sound like the text of the subject took up your whole screen and you had no choice but to click on it.</P> <P>Sure, this is an old topic - has anything been done out it yet? No... so I will continue to talk about it. If this thread get's locked, I'll make a new one with any new idea's I have. I refuse to give up, you're just gonna have to deal with it.</P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>I refuse to give up, you're just gonna have to deal with it.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL<BR>

[LoreLady]

Akient - its not what your saying people are disagreeing with.. Its how your saying it.. Everyone (cept for a select few) agree that rangers need large boosts in our CA cast times (or CA dps) to be onpar with assassins.. However, name calling and going out on the deepend saying rangers are useless is.. <u><b>Not true</b></u><i>I say not true because I secretly dont know how to spel fasel, err.. fales, err afels.. I know im forgetting soemthing.</i>

[Akie]

<P>Useless, useless, useless... how does it feel to be useless?</P> <P>Unless there's no assassins around, then you're semi not useless.</P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <P>Useless, useless, useless... how does it feel to be useless?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Having never been useless, I can't answer this. But perhaps you have some insight into this that you'd like to share with the rest of the class?<BR>

[Akie]

<DIV>Are you raising your hand with a question Jay or just bumping this wonderfull thread of evidence? Perhaps if you have something to ask, you can be more specific. Or if your generality was a suggestion to ask why I say why rangers are useless, well, I have and you've read it. I know you have because you always post after me and challange me in some way.</DIV> <P>Better yet Jay - please tell the class what you're able to bring to a raid that another class can't already do, or even do better than you. Your turn to be on the spot.</P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:41 PM</span>

[Jay]

<P>Well, you obviously feel you're useless, and that's gotta kinda suck a little. I don't feel useless, myself - though I agree that there are a few areas we could use a boost. Rangers can and do achieve high DPS numbers in a variety of settings, even on raids, but IMO it's a grueling uphill battle to do so. I agree that it can be very frustrating, and it does bother me that other classes can bring more DPS *and* more utility to a raid without needing the best gear, the best upgrades, and the best skills to do so.</P> <P>But many of us have been fighting for the cause for a good long time. Those of us that are still around aren't giving up, we're just not going about it in the same way you've chosen to. I agree with several of your points; I don't agree with your methods, or your habit of attacking other rangers who don't agree with you. </P> <P>I'm actually not a very good ranger in the game, and even here on the forums, I don't put forth the facts and figures as some very qualified rangers can. But don't doubt my devotion to this class for a second. </P> <P>Good luck, and <EM>have fun.</EM></P>

[Tarryn]

<P>In all fairness, he never said "useless."  He said essentially that there are no ways in which we are <EM>more useful</EM> than any other given class on a raid.</P> <P>In general, that's true.  There are no ways we particularly stand out, no areas in which our usefulness exceeds any other class on any given role.</P> <P>We're probably not the only class in that position, but it still hurts to go from "premier DPS and nothing else" to "good DPS and nothing else."  We, and the other few classes likely in a similar position, need some re-examination.</P><p>Message Edited by Tarryn on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:06 PM</span>

[LoreLady]

<blockquote><hr>Tarryn wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>In all fairness, he never said "useless."  He said essentially that there are no ways in which we are <em>more useful</em> than any other given class on a raid.</p> <p>In general, that's true.  There are no ways we particularly stand out, no areas in which our usefulness exceeds any other class on any given role.</p> <p>We're probably not the only class in that position, but it still hurts to go from "premier DPS and nothing else" to "good DPS and nothing else."  We, and the other few classes likely in a similar position, need some re-examination.</p><p>Message Edited by Tarryn on <span class="date_text">09-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:06 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yea, we arent the only class in a bad spot.. Warlocks have it pretty bad - and shadowknights also have it pretty bad atm.. Hell, I have a feeling on the new expansion bards arent going to be so hot (havent checked out the new beta, just my own predictions).

[Serventof Wrath]

<P>For the love of TUNARE I thought this thread had died!!!!!!!!!</P> <P>1.)  We are not useless (you maybe......  I'm not therefore you can not say "we" )</P> <P>2.)  I do raid</P> <P>3.)  I am the only ranger in my guild that raids. We have others they choose not to raid the choice is thier's they are not asked to sit out</P> <P>4.)  While my guild is not the most uber of the uber we are raiding DT and we got access on our own!!!</P> <P>5.)  I have had the raid leader change targets to easier targets when they thought I was not gonna be there.</P> <P>6.)  I work my butt off for every bit of my dps and my guild has never questioned my effort or asked me to sit out for another dps class.  In fact I have volunteered my spot for an extra healer/brig/bard/chanter and have been told flat out NO, that if I wasn't going there would be no point in even trying.</P> <P>7.)  No we are not on par where we should be as T1 DPS.  We need some tweaking in casting/recast timers.  We need the group buffs/procs that only work on a successful melee attack changed to work on any successful attack to include ranged.  We need to see either more long bows with actual DR equal to 2h weapons or we need to see the current ones in game get a boost to their DR.  We need to have more then just 2 means to get level 70 ammo since it greatly affects our auto attack damage.</P> <P>8.)  We DON'T need to keep revisiting this tired thread and we DON'T need RANGERS attacking RANGERS in these forums.  There are ways to debate topics in a civilized manner unfortunately we haven't seen it in this thread lately.  </P>

[Akie]

<DIV> <P>For the love of TUNARE I thought this thread had died!!!!!!!!!</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>We're out of game now, you can /turn off roleplaying for a minute and take down your Legolas poster.</FONT></P> <P>1.)  We are not useless (you maybe......  I'm not therefore you can not say "we" )</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Me maybe? If what you've said is all you have to come with in defense of the rangers usefullness as a class - god man, go play your SK. You're a much more useless ranger than I'll ever be.</FONT></P> <P>2.)  I do raid</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>We're not talking about Runny Eye pickup groups.</FONT></P> <P>3.)  I am the only ranger in my guild that raids. We have others they choose not to raid the choice is thier's they are not asked to sit out</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>I think the point of this thread few by you at mock 2.</FONT></P> <P>4.)  While my guild is not the most uber of the uber we are raiding DT and we got access on our own!!!</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>As opposed to the DT fairy putting the access under your pillow while you sleep?</FONT></P> <P>5.)  I have had the raid leader change targets to easier targets when they thought I was not gonna be there.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>rofl? </FONT></P> <P>6.)  I work my butt off for every bit of my dps and my guild has never questioned my effort or asked me to sit out for another dps class.  In fact I have volunteered my spot for an extra healer/brig/bard/chanter and have been told flat out NO, that if I wasn't going there would be no point in even trying.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>you must have good ventrillo jokes.</FONT></P> <P>7.)  No we are not on par where we should be as T1 DPS.  We need some tweaking in casting/recast timers.  We need the group buffs/procs that only work on a successful melee attack changed to work on any successful attack to include ranged.  We need to see either more long bows with actual DR equal to 2h weapons or we need to see the current ones in game get a boost to their DR.  We need to have more then just 2 means to get level 70 ammo since it greatly affects our auto attack damage.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Awesome, you said something on topic.</FONT></P> <P>8.)  We DON'T need to keep revisiting this tired thread and we DON'T need RANGERS attacking RANGERS in these forums.  There are ways to debate topics in a civilized manner unfortunately we haven't seen it in this thread lately.  </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I never claimed I was Mr.Likable and I really don't give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you like how I'm saying something, what I have to say, or how I say it, cause I will say it anyway and won't give a hoot what you think about it, ever...</FONT></P></DIV>

[Prandtl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.<FONT color=#ff0000> <STRONG>I never claimed I was Mr.Likable</STRONG></FONT> and I really don't give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you like how I'm saying something, what I have to say, or how I say it, cause I will say it anyway and won't give a hoot what you think about it, ever...</FONT></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You sure got that part right!  Attacking someones well thought out post with personal jibes, trite phrases and sub-moronic rhetoric is no way to get your point across.  I am assuming that you actually have one, but I have been wrong before<BR>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prandtl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.<FONT color=#ff0000> <STRONG>I never claimed I was Mr.Likable</STRONG></FONT> and I really don't give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you like how I'm saying something, what I have to say, or how I say it, cause I will say it anyway and won't give a hoot what you think about it, ever...</FONT></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You sure got that part right!  Attacking someones well thought out post with personal jibes, trite phrases and sub-moronic rhetoric is no way to get your point across.  I am assuming that you actually have one, but I have been wrong before<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ditto. I guess I haven't seen the point(s), if any, b/c Akient has yet to post something new or useful. This is all ground that's been covered in depth already. </P> <P>Somehow, I'm not all that surprised. I don't think he really HAS a point, just ranting about old news with the typically boring macho attitude and the usual "I'm a forum badass" swagger. /yawn</P>

[Sirlutt]

This is my most favoritesesesestes thread .. EVAR!!.. for truely!since postingin this thread before, I have seen many rangers post decent parses and realised their is nothing wrong with Ranger DPS, there is something wrong with Bow Itemisation because a Ranger with the right tools does as much damage as an assassin with the right tools.  The Assassin tools are just easier to get.Fix the bows and you fix the rangers.  Raise the DR of bows across the board, make the existing high end bows a bit more plentiful and add a few others, make them ranger only.Then you whiners will need to find something else to do with your time.. <div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:This is my most favoritesesesestes thread .. EVAR!!.. for truely!since postingin this thread before, I have seen many rangers post decent parses and realised their is nothing wrong with Ranger DPS, there is something wrong with Bow Itemisation because a Ranger with the right tools does as much damage as an assassin with the right tools.  The Assassin tools are just easier to get.Fix the bows and you fix the rangers.  Raise the DR of bows across the board, make the existing high end bows a bit more plentiful and add a few others, make them ranger only.Then you whiners will need to find something else to do with your time.. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Since your responding to ak, and we all know im not a whiner (meaning, complaining about something without doing something to backup my claims) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyways, I will be honest here and this is one of those times I will throw opinion in.. But if they make my eq2 ranger into a eq1 ranger im going to be [Removed for Content]... I want it so that the harder I work for dps (button mashing) the higher my dps is going to be..  I dont want to sit on my pansy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and go afk for 10 mins with the lil birdy toy (simpsons thing) hitting auto attack while I go afk for an hour.. I want to be able to work for my DPS.. Now, here are some speculations I have for EoF.. Sony will ballance cast times or damage in some sort, and sony will give us some back ranged attacks to move with to do that rangers dance to fill the auto attack lapses. I also suspect that they will make "crafting ammo" usefull and less of a burden that does similar or more dps to mark (well, I am going to assume if we are spending a rare or whatever for arrows that thers going to be a bonus - again predictions)Now - despite our problems I still enjoy playing a ranger.. I dont mind putting the extra work into getting that "last bit of dps" I really enjoy it, and I love games that are like that.. That arent ok - point, your dead.. NEXT!!! I love doing the rangers dance, although I wish that there was more mechanics that allowed us to do it effectively (IE - snaring shot on the move or something like that - or a back ranged attack etc)..Now that my own RL doom and gloom has kinda passed, my outlook on sony/rangers has gotten alot better.. And I can understand why they are being so slow to fix obvies fix's.. Everything comes to those who wait.. Unfortunatly, most of us have been waiting since LU 13 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (thats what 1-2 years <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).. <u>And dont ask me why your current state of mind effects the current state of your class.. But it does <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Its when your current state of your class that effects your current state of mind you know you have a problem <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></u></div>

[KnightOfTheWo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div> <div>For the love of everything holy, please let this thread die.  I really don't mean to be rude, but of all the threads to necro...</div> <div> </div> <div>I know your intentions are honorable.  But please, we need a break from all the DPS/utility debates.</div><hr></blockquote>QFE (Not directed at LoreLady or anyone in particular)</div>

[Asismii]

not gonna read all 9 pages i always parse at least 2100 on any fight , for easier ones, like the second eye, about 4800 yeaaa /flex ok, that was a load of shyte =-P a persons dps is respective to the raids, if the raid does more dps, so you do so if you want to post your average dps, post your raids too <div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:This is my most favoritesesesestes thread .. EVAR!!.. for truely!since postingin this thread before, I have seen many rangers post decent parses and realised their is nothing wrong with Ranger DPS, there is something wrong with Bow Itemisation because a Ranger with the right tools does as much damage as an assassin with the right tools.  The Assassin tools are just easier to get.Fix the bows and you fix the rangers.  Raise the DR of bows across the board, make the existing high end bows a bit more plentiful and add a few others, make them ranger only.Then you whiners will need to find something else to do with your time.. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Since your responding to ak, and we all know im not a whiner (meaning, complaining about something without doing something to backup my claims) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyways, I will be honest here and this is one of those times I will throw opinion in.. But if they make my eq2 ranger into a eq1 ranger im going to be [Removed for Content]... I want it so that the harder I work for dps (button mashing) the higher my dps is going to be..  I dont want to sit on my pansy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and go afk for 10 mins with the lil birdy toy (simpsons thing) hitting auto attack while I go afk for an hour.. I want to be able to work for my DPS.. Now, here are some speculations I have for EoF.. Sony will ballance cast times or damage in some sort, and sony will give us some back ranged attacks to move with to do that rangers dance to fill the auto attack lapses. I also suspect that they will make "crafting ammo" usefull and less of a burden that does similar or more dps to mark (well, I am going to assume if we are spending a rare or whatever for arrows that thers going to be a bonus - again predictions)Now - despite our problems I still enjoy playing a ranger.. I dont mind putting the extra work into getting that "last bit of dps" I really enjoy it, and I love games that are like that.. That arent ok - point, your dead.. NEXT!!! I love doing the rangers dance, although I wish that there was more mechanics that allowed us to do it effectively (IE - snaring shot on the move or something like that - or a back ranged attack etc)..Now that my own RL doom and gloom has kinda passed, my outlook on sony/rangers has gotten alot better.. And I can understand why they are being so slow to fix obvies fix's.. Everything comes to those who wait.. Unfortunatly, most of us have been waiting since LU 13 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (thats what 1-2 years <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).. <u>And dont ask me why your current state of mind effects the current state of your class.. But it does <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Its when your current state of your class that effects your current state of mind you know you have a problem <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></u></div><hr></blockquote>i think your taking it to the extreme.  A large part of my DPS is from the weapons I use.  The same should be true for Rangers.  You can want to get your DPs from button mashing all you want, but Auto Attack plays a VERY large part in damage.  Increasing that will increase your over all DPS and help you out.   Thats FACT.  FACT in so much as Rangers with the right bows ARE parsing well.</div>

[Rahmn]

It's not that rangers don't do great dps, it's because other class do equally great dps plus things like dispatch.  In order for a ranger to be viable on a raid he/she needs to have most the guilds brigands,swashbucklers, zerkers, summoners killed.

[EQGu]

<DIV>Sorry Lockeye but i call BS!!!!!.... EVERY ranger ive ever seen or heard cant touch an assassin's dps i dont know the exact problem but there is no way to keep up as a ranger, maybe if you got the sarnak bow but thats like the only way..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are you looking at conj necro parses or assassin parses? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i admit i cant parse as much as a pve ranger, but i pull 1100 tops with half adept3s and half masters, rain, selection veiled and a couple others are masters.. so the ones that matter.. with max STR ( around 650 in my group) and 100% haste.. i play on a pvp server so i havent had time for all the gear etc.. but even so with swashes and conjs that are in my raid with similar gear and spell quality that constanly out parse by a 300ish ..</DIV> <DIV>they other rangers in the raid are at my dps or slightly below.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>maybe i could keep a constant 1200 dps if i could sniper every time and use killing instinct every time and rain every time...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my record parse on a quick fight was 1497 dps and that is like tops ever... when i hear of assassins pullin 2k + </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ive seen our conj parse 2k and swashes near that... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im AA speced AGI and STR... INT would be better for raid dps but str for pvp so thats why i went str...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also i LOVE and i mean LOVE .. SOE math... end str line says will decrease recast time of a long term recast dmg skill (over 2 min recast) by 50%... so you take 15 min and decrease it by 50%...what do you get????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NORMAL people would figure this out to 7.5 minutes... well SOE math =  10 min... i dunno how they got that but plz explain</DIV>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EQGuru wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sorry Lockeye but i call BS!!!!!.... EVERY ranger ive ever seen or heard cant touch an assassin's dps i dont know the exact problem but there is no way to keep up as a ranger, maybe if you got the sarnak bow but thats like the only way..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are you looking at conj necro parses or assassin parses? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i admit i cant parse as much as a pve ranger, but i pull 1100 tops with half adept3s and half masters, rain, selection veiled and a couple others are masters.. so the ones that matter.. with max STR ( around 650 in my group) and 100% haste.. i play on a pvp server so i havent had time for all the gear etc.. but even so with swashes and conjs that are in my raid with similar gear and spell quality that constanly out parse by a 300ish ..</DIV> <DIV>they other rangers in the raid are at my dps or slightly below.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>maybe i could keep a constant 1200 dps if i could sniper every time and use killing instinct every time and rain every time...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my record parse on a quick fight was 1497 dps and that is like tops ever... when i hear of assassins pullin 2k + </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ive seen our conj parse 2k and swashes near that... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im AA speced AGI and STR... INT would be better for raid dps but str for pvp so thats why i went str...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also i LOVE and i mean LOVE .. SOE math... end str line says will decrease recast time of a long term recast dmg skill (over 2 min recast) by 50%... so you take 15 min and decrease it by 50%...what do you get????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NORMAL people would figure this out to 7.5 minutes... well SOE math =  10 min... i dunno how they got that but plz explain</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I parse on par with our Assassins, and both are 2k+ assassins... </P> <P>although a large part of that is because I have t8 ammo with Sarnakk warbow..</P> <P> </P> <P>Is it fair that we have to rely on gear to parse as well as assassins, no... it isn't, but when we're geared up, we can. There is a LARGE difference in CA DPSing capability, but assassins can only improve so much with gear, while with better bows we exceed at leaps and bounds..</P> <P> </P> <P>Now let this thread die please, it's been here WAY too long.<BR></P>

[EQGu]

<DIV>never his thread cant die...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but maybe with the t8 ammo you summon from one raid bown and use the other uber auto attack dmg from the sarnak... but thats like the ONLY way..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when an assassin can do theirs with treasured its crap.. if 90% of assassins can do 2k dps and the rest do 1.5k   and 5% of rangers can do 2k dps and the rest under 1.5 its unbalanced... keep the sarnak the same just up the other bows a tad to be somewhat better. not just going from suck to uber you go suck decent uber atleast</DIV>

[LoreLady]

I just dont see t8 ammo with any ammo doing the same as mark on a single raid fight + what auto attack what we are already doing....I also dont see the 20-30% gap in dps due to cast times overlapped as well with t8 ammo..Unfortuantly theres no real /weaponstats for t7, t8 ammo.. Its not something I can plug in a formula, I wish we were given more info so that we could prove or disprove this entire thing.. I am sure that those who claim they parse at 1.8k once and a while do that once and a while.. But on the parsings ive seen, and the parsings that have been floating around.. I still dont see the ranger averaging anymore than 1.4k on a zonewide parse..Just FYI - I look at zonewide <i><u>ALOT</u></i> more than I look at individual fights.

[Crychtonn]

<P>Last weekend I got bored in DT while clearing those stupid goo's before the drake.  So for three in a row I just hit my auto ranged attack for the entire fights.  DPS for the three went something like 990, 910, 920.  I had pretty much crap for group buffs outside of a fury tagging me with Vim and getting my Int up to 390.  Other then that just self buff haste and DT bracelet.</P> <P>What can I say I'm bored at work and thought I'd share my stupid adventures in auto attack land.</P> <P> </P>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR>I just dont see t8 ammo with any ammo doing the same as mark on a single raid fight + what auto attack what we are already doing....<BR><BR>I also dont see the 20-30% gap in dps due to cast times overlapped as well with t8 ammo..<BR><BR>Unfortuantly theres no real /weaponstats for t7, t8 ammo.. Its not something I can plug in a formula, I wish we were given more info so that we could prove or disprove this entire thing.. I am sure that those who claim they parse at 1.8k once and a while do that once and a while.. But on the parsings ive seen, and the parsings that have been floating around.. I still dont see the ranger averaging anymore than 1.4k on a zonewide parse..<BR><BR>Just FYI - I look at zonewide <I><U>ALOT</U></I> more than I look at individual fights.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/sigh</P> <P> </P> <P>I find myself disagreeing with almost everything you post. </P> <P>Honestly, yes, our CAs need tagged up some. Assassins can do almost as much as we can with bow auto attack damage, and still maintain 20% increased CA DPS, which isn't entirely fair, however.. it's not part of an assassins normal play style, and most people are too afraid to change how they play for fear of decreasing their DPS (I've talked with a few assassins who think stepping out for bow shots every once and a while will lower their DPS.</P> <P>The only real advantage is that most of our CAs are ranged, and by our class role, we will hit with more auto attacks....</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, your comment about 1800-1900 once and a while is wrong.. Some Rangers can maintain that...</P>

[LoreLady]

And this is why I still maintain myself to saying this.. Is I have zonewide parsings of assassins at 1.8k dps, I dont have a single ranger above 1.4k dps in any of my parsings.. And I look at other guilds dps values as well (hence why I have 1.8k dps parsings on assassins).. Untill I get a zonewide parse and take a look at what kinda numbers that rangers putting out per ability etc, I am going to keep my thoughts the same..And BTW - in a 1 min fight, 1.8k means nothing, in a zonewide parse.. 1.8k means ALOT, parsings drop significantly if you put up zonewide parsings.. Doing 1.8k at 1/2 of the fights, and doing 1.2k on the other half averages to 1.5k.. So, even if what you are saying holds true.. It still doesnt hold true zonewide - and that is what I want to see..Now, before I continue.. Id like to say that I am excited about the changes posted (I put a link up on the ranger boards) - and possible changes in EoF class stuff.. On a slight negitive note, I just hope they dont make rangers a pure auto attack class.. That thought scares me, and all this talk about getting ahold of t8 ammo seems what its like.. Anyways, have fun rangers!!

[Jayad]

This thread needs to die.. but yeah, zonewide parses are the only ones that count.  I'd love to see some zone-wide parses of a ranger keeping up with an excellent assassin.

[Asismii]

Xney, if a ranger did post themselves up with an assassin, would you just say the assassin sucks? or could you take their word that it is a good assassin and prove yourself wrong? i'd bet you'd say the assassin sucks.. and it would have to be one that you deem "excellent". <div></div>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asismii wrote:<BR>Xney, if a ranger did post themselves up with an assassin, would you just say the assassin sucks? or could you take their word that it is a good assassin and prove yourself wrong? <STRONG>i'd bet you'd say the assassin sucks</STRONG>.. and it would have to be one that you deem "excellent".<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You'd probably be wrong.  This would be sooooo easy to determine simply by looking at the parses and group setups.<BR></P>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Asismii wrote:Xney, if a ranger did post themselves up with an assassin, would you just say the assassin sucks? or could you take their word that it is a good assassin and prove yourself wrong? i'd bet you'd say the assassin sucks.. and it would have to be one that you deem "excellent". <div></div><hr></blockquote>Im looking for a ranger that can keep inline with one of the upper assassins in the game.. There standards seem to be at 1.8k for many zones.</div>

[Rahmn]

Put the assassin and the ranger in the same group during a raid.

[Jayad]

<P>If the raid is doing a lot of dps, then chances are the people in the raid are good.  If the ranger does 1.8 k dps and the assassin does 1.4k dps then yes I would wonder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  but if the ranger does 1.8kdps and the assassin does 2.0kdps then I think you'd have to say that was impressive.</P> <P>You can't take DPS numbers in a vacuum.  And certainly not one fight.  Zone-wide really shows class balance better.</P>

[Balerius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rahmn wrote:<BR> Put the assassin and the ranger in the same group during a raid.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just a hint that you may want to consider:  The last thing you ever want to see in a decent raid setup is a ranger and an assassin in the same group.

[Mirdo]

I think he was putting them in the same group purely for comparison but you are right, it wouldn't actually be that fair a comparison if you are looking at maximum attainable DPS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Mirdo.<div></div>