New mob run speed, how are my fellow Rangers finding it?

[Nulad]

Me, nasty, not getting that extra ranged attack off before getting to melee range added to the proc removal of our secondary weapons is kinda hurting, not so bad against normal and downs but ^ and above it can be unpleasant.  I'm willing to bet that the devs neglegted to think on how this change would affect ranged arts and I'm not just talking bows here...I wonder if we'll ever get a response?Ahhhh, that familiar nerf bat feeling <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Nul.<div></div>

[Mentla]

Oh God, they didn't update my server until this morning I believe - what have they done to us now?!?! <div></div>

[Taeolen]

<DIV>It's too fast now.  I can only get 1 bow shot in with my Ranger before the mob's on my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] eating me.</DIV>

[Bayler_x]

Yeah, it hurts.  I tried soloing the same mobs I had fought the day before, and I didn't have nearly as much control - I lost too many oportunities to fire.  I found myself forced to melee too much.  Didn't feel very rangery.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Khevy]

<DIV>Yeah the run speed is buggy. On some mobs I used my legshot and slowed the mob down by 47% and I still was only able to get 2 shots off were as before I could get 4.  Then like you others have said I was in melee and my second hand proc was very noticable not being there.  Whith that said I also noticed that I would proc maybe 1-2 times in a melee fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in maj and got jumped by a thief.  I was on my trusty little carpet and he still chased me down. </DIV>

[Mentla]

Man, this is scary.  Almost too afriad to download the update when I get home! <div></div>

[snack-machine]

Yep, I can now only get my 2 best ranged attacks in before the mob reaches instead of the normal 3. Even before they increased our run speed I could get in 3 attacks...I mean teh run speed increase for the characters aminly allowed me to run across a zone a little faster but the end result has now effected my combat ability. While my running faster is nice....I'd prefer to be slow again and still get my 3 attacks in. In addition, It seemed as if with heroics I now am not able to use cheapshot and get an attack in as consistantly as before. Yes, I know about the only 2 second stun on heroics but since their now faster...they now seem to close that small gap faster and many times prevent me from getting in my ranged attack. Life goes on of course but I'm just a little sad.

[Turtle]

<P><EM>Hmmm....Well looks like we got nerfed thru the back door instead of the front.  :smileysad: This takes away the Range from Rangers...at least while soloing anyway.  More reason to use the stun type poisons and hope they proc every hit and prices go down on them...lol  :smileyvery-happy:</EM></P> <P><EM>Dear Santa,</EM></P> <P><EM>Please have SOE give Rangers ranged attacks that cause stun, root, or slow enemys drastically.</EM></P> <P><EM>Thank you,</EM></P> <P><EM>Kindrid</EM></P> <DIV><EM>Oh well at least all the other updates recently have been positives for Rangers, well except for the poison proc...</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Turtle on <span class=date_text>12-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:23 PM</span>

[Klu]

Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17? <div></div>

[AceMcVeer2]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Klund wrote:<BR>Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The Mobs are running faster now and we are still standing still... Before we would hit the mob and they would come after us and get there in lets say 5 seconds. Now they run faster so now they get there in 3.5 seconds. Well we are standing still so they arrive 1.5 seconds earlier than before. Before we were able to launch some more arrows in that time, now we have to get our swords out and get ready to melee.</DIV>

[Nulad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Klund wrote:Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17? <div></div><hr></blockquote>If we were able to cast all our CA's on the move it wouldn't be a problem, but apart from a couple all require you to be stood still so it exactly as explained above.  Again, I'll point out that this is probably affecting a far wider audience than just rangers, we are not the only class to use ranged attacks of some sort or another. Nul.</span><div></div>

[Klu]

<div></div>Ah thanks for clarifying, indirect nerf indeed then for rangers/wizards/warlocks. I was wondering why they were all of a sudden changing running speeds...clearer to what they were doing now I guess... How bad is it though? Curious as I was wanting a high dps solo class and decided on a ranger. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Klund on <span class=date_text>12-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:19 AM</span>

[Bayler_x]

At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before.  I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options.  The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now.  (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) <div></div>

[Jay]

<P>The only hunting I did yesterday was in the Elfin Wonderland, using enchanted snowballs. Warmed me ranja heart, being able to fire those puppies while running AND at PB range. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>So I haven't seen the new runspeed firsthand while soloing, but I imagine it will make things more difficult for us. That's fine. I didn't make a ranger because I liked things easy. </P>

[Bayler_x]

::blush::  I didn't see that I had gotten the snowball pouch.  I killed all the Elfin Wonderland critters with regular arrows. <div></div>

[Turtle]

<P>Doh :smileysad:</P> <P>Yeah the pouch was very nice...I was killing everything in two hits :smileyhappy:</P> <P> </P>

[Shadesl]

To me it's pretty bad, we never did fair to well vs ^ solo mobs yes we could take them by kiting but for xp'ing that's not to effective. I used to tend to fight solo down mobs in groups for the xp bonus. But with the changes there is very little room for error now. Truthfully I thought the changes would affect my Swash the most, but I was way off. Rangers aren't to great at soloing at all now, if you solo you'll likely do much better picking almost anything else at this point. Still good in groupd though. <div></div>

[Mephli]

<DIV>The mobs run speed should be slowed like ours is as soon as the fight is engaged, but it doesn't.  In "my opinoion" its broken as is.... and really sucks.</DIV>

[Radgen]

<P><EM>To me it's pretty bad, we never did fair to well vs ^ solo mobs yes we could take them by kiting but for xp'ing that's not to effective.</EM> </P> <P>Errr...I never had real issues with single ^ heroics.  Tough fights for sure, but even yellows I could(and still can) take without much issue.</P> <P>EVen now It isn;t that big a deal.  Yes I can notice the difference, but I tend to hit them with a snare first anyway, or due to enviroment issues, engage at much less than max range anyway.  It was always faster for me to tear through groups of down arrow mobs than to hunt and engage in tough fights with heroics.</P> <P>In fact I think this is a bigger affect than the proc changes.  That is I dodn;t know it had happened would not have registered for me since I have percieved so little change.</P> <P>Just changes tactics a bit.  You are never gonna be able to stop adapting.  These games always change.  I was a dman good Ranger in EQ1, played a ridiculas amount and could pull off stuff I wasn't suppose to be bale to do(not cause I am uber, I just had WAY to much practice), but I know that if I went back now Fippy would probably hand me my rear end because I have no clue how the game is palyed now.</P>

[EvilIguana9]

<span><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before.  I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options.  The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now.  (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) <div></div><hr></blockquote> That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too.  As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life.  To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered.  Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++  named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken.  I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.  </span><div></div>

[Mentla]

<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before.  I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options.  The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now.  (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) <div></div><hr></blockquote> That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too.  As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it <font color="#ff0000"><b>arrives at 95% of it's life.  To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered</b></font>.  Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++  named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken.  I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.  </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes, but when it arives with that amount of health and hit us once how much damage do we take?  A little bit more than you in your plate armor at a guess. You do realise a Paladin is a tank, don't you?</span><div></div>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>A tank coming to a DPS class forum and complaining about his inability to match our DPS...  Priceless.  What's next, Clerics who can't shoot arrows?  LOL</DIV>

[Nulad]

Yeh, and with it's 30% health said mob will smack most Rangers silly, if you are going to compare then you need to take the whole class into account not just one aspect of it.  Soloing ^^^ yellows is something I cant do, even with the right poisons. If a ^^^ yellow mob got to me with even 5% health left chances are very good that I'd be dead well before it hit 3% health. We depend on taking most of a mobs health off them before they get to melee range and it must be a very fine balance for the devs to get right, too little damage and we die like flies, too much and we're overpowered.  As I have stated before, if anything is overpowered its the poison, not us. Nul. <div></div>

[Grueden]

<DIV>First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class.  I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all.  It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all.  Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee.<EM>  At the same time mind you.</EM>  I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me.  Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what?  Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability?  How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards?  There was a few mentions of kiting too.  Where's the skill in that?  Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt.  You just need to be smart about it.  If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, <EM>range</EM>.  Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal.  Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets?  NO!!!!  Absolutely not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now.  Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class.  If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some.  And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want.  Just means they die a little more tired is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greuden Raitfiend</DIV> <DIV>60 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Antonia Bayle</DIV> <DIV>Rangers > assassins</DIV>

[Bayler_x]

<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before.  I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options.  The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now.  (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) <div></div><hr></blockquote> That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too.  As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life.  To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered.  Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++  named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken.  I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.  </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm not talking about yellow+++'s.  These are solo mobs - we're meant to be able to kill them.  And being orange-'s, it should be a tough fight.  And it is - I don't always win.  And keep in mind, these are fights chosen according to my capabilities. As stated above, rangers are *supposed* to fight with ranged attacks.  Just like mages.  When the mob makes it to melee range, we get beat up a lot, and we can't do much damage any more.  You, on the other hand, are a paladin.  You're *not* supposed to fight with ranged attacks.  I'd guess that the purpose of your DD spells, in fact, isn't actually the damage so much as the agro or debuf or whatever.  (I could be wrong - I've never played a paladin.)  You're supposed to stand toe to toe with a mob, hitting him with your sword while he hits you with his.  And you do much better than we do in those kinds of fights.</span> <div></div>

[Nulad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Grueden wrote:<div></div> <div>First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class.  I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out.</div> <div> </div> <div>The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all.  It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all.  Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee.<em>  At the same time mind you.</em>  I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me.  Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different?</div> <div> </div> <div>To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what?  Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability?  How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards?  There was a few mentions of kiting too.  Where's the skill in that?  Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt.  You just need to be smart about it.  If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, <em>range</em>.  Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal.  Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets?  NO!!!!  Absolutely not.</div> <div> </div> <div>My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now.  Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all.</div> <div> </div> <div>To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class.  If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some.  And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want.  Just means they die a little more tired is all.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Greuden Raitfiend</div> <div>60 Ranger</div> <div>Antonia Bayle</div> <div>Rangers > assassins</div><hr></blockquote>Stop confusing the issue, I haven't seen one post in here yet that says 'Bahhhhwwwahahaha, I can't solo anymore!!!'  It was a simple question as to how my fellow Rangers are finding the change, the general feeling by the looks of things is that it's made life a little harder but isn't a problem in the least.  Then things changed as to why you cannot compare a tank with a Ranger via ranged damage output, again nobody said that they couldn't solo anymore. Having said all that, I am still convinced that SOE failed to take into account ranged arts users whith this change, us, wizzy's and whoever else uses them. Nul.</span><div></div>

[EvilIguana9]

<span><blockquote><hr>Mentla wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before.  I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options.  The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now.  (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) <div></div><hr></blockquote> That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too.  As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it <font color="#ff0000"><b>arrives at 95% of it's life.  To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered</b></font>.  Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++  named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken.  I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.  </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes, but when it arives with that amount of health and hit us once how much damage do we take?  A little bit more than you in your plate armor at a guess. You do realise a Paladin is a tank, don't you?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote> Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out.  But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all.  Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me.  If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Bayler_x]

<span><blockquote><hr>EvilIguana966 wrote:<span> Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out.  But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all.  Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me.  If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>You're mistaken when you say that we do more melee damage; it's certainly wrong to say that it evens out.  To do good damage, we need to be at a distance so we can use our bows.  Failing that, we need to have access to the enemy's back, and chances to hide.  When we're fighting toe-to-toe, we generally don't have any of those options.  (We have a stun that lets us use them to a certain degree, but not nearly as much as we would in a group fight.) And please don't downplay the difference in how much damage we take.  Then, too, we have no ability to heal, other than potions. I do agree that it could be interesting to fight mobs with bows.  But keep in mind that when soloing, we'd still get to choose which mobs we fight, and we'd avoid ones that negated our advantages.</span><div></div>

[Grueden]

<DIV>Yeah, I went off on a tangent a little.  Was reading a few different posts and everything came out in the one post I replied to.  But generally, I don't mind the changes too much.  Now when mobs run faster than I can again, then I'll be a bit more worried.</DIV>

[Sephr]

    I wish that mobs would need some time to figure out where we are, when we shoot into their backs...from a conceal position, blended into the enviroment. (emerald armor in forrests/bushes for instance), or when we break Line of sight right after a shot, acting as a medieval sniper.<div></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EvilIguana966 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out.  But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all.  <FONT color=#ffff33>Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me.</FONT>  If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If the game worked the way you seem to think it does, it wouldn't be balanced. But the fact is, we take FAR MORE damage than you in melee. If we don't knock off a substantial portion of the mob's health before it closes to CQC, we're in trouble. That's just the way a *ranged* class solos. The predator classes solo by racing to out-damage the mob b/c we have no other option. We can't heal, we can't avoid much, we can't mitigate much, and we lose the bulk of our DPS in frontal melee. Tanks solo by winning a battle of attrition using mitigation, endurance, and healing (in your case) to outlast their opponents. That's just simple game mechanics. You're a Tier 6 paladin, how did you get all this way working with such strange assumptions about other class?</P> <P>Tell you what - you can have my DPS if I can have your taunts, mitigation, and healing abilities. Then we'll all play the same class and there will be no more whining about game balance. Sounds like fun, doesn't it? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[EvilIguana9]

You take more damage than I do in melee over a similar period of time, but currently you spend very little time in melee with the mob.  I am very much aware that scouts have to do a large amount of damage at the start of the fight in order to prevail, but currently I believe the way it is set up is unbalanced.  In my experience rangers can kill higher mobs, and can kill them faster than almost any other class, without much danger to themselves.  That is where I see the imbalance.  And I'd like to point out some errors in your opinions on how tanks fight.  We will lose a battle of attrition.  I always have offensive stance up when soloing.  Defensive is only valuable in group situations.  We'd have to have a far higher boost in defensive capabilities to make up for the loss in damage.  Currently the key to soloing is damage.  Even if you can win a battle of atttrition, it is much faster to win it via damage.  That is why priests are, in general, so bad at soloing.  Sure they can keep themselves alive for a long time but it takes forever to kill the mob.  <div></div>

[Deml]

<DIV>You say you watch Ranger's solo mobs higher than they are without any risk?  Have you seen what happens to us when we get hit by those same mobs?  I have over 4k hp self buffed and I've died in 2-3 hits from green and blue mobs.  Against a yellow, like the cyclops on the 2nd floor of poets palace, he kills me in 2 shots, consistantly, if he gets close enough to me.  Predators, not just Rangers, need to do that much damage before the mob gets to us because as soon as they close on us two things happen.  First, we can no longer use our bows so our dps drops by about 60%.   Second, in about 2 hits the mob has evened the fight out so that we are at the same hp% as the mob is.  The big difference from that point on, the mobs DPS doesn't drop 60% or more in close quarters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and as for mobs having bows, go to Scornfeather Roost and keep track of how many ranger skills you get hit with.  Every group of 3 harpies in that zone has at least 1 Ranger mob in it.  Some of the solo harpies are rangers as well.  I seem to constantly be running around that zone taking triple arrow, storm of arrows, debilitating arrow or leg shot damage.</DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> EvilIguana966 wrote:<BR>You take more damage than I do in melee over a similar period of time, but currently you spend very little time in melee with the mob.  <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>So how do you want to balance this? Force rangers to put away their bows and fight in melee like you do, so it's "balanced?" Do you honestly believe that every class in this game should be exactly as effective as every other class in every situation?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry you feel that I'm a more effective soloer than you are, due to the fundamental characteristic of my class - ranged combat - but I'm not sure what you want to change. I assume you want us to do less damage and be forced into more melee so we're less effective soloers: again, lousy mitigation, lousy avoidance, no healing, no HP to speak of. You get all these things. You're a tank class, not DPS - your job is to endure damage, not deliver it. I'm sorry if you don't enjoy that role, or if you're more effective in groups than soloing, or if you're envious of the abilities of other classes, but you can't be a tank / healer AND play DPS. Most of us have to pick one role, as a hybrid class you get some of two. That should be enough.</DIV>

[Turtle]

Jay42 thats just what I was thinking.  Each class has its own key points, if you dont like yours play something else.

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EvilIguana966 wrote:<BR>You take more damage than I do in melee over a similar period of time, but currently you spend very little time in melee with the mob.  I am very much aware that scouts have to do a large amount of damage at the start of the fight in order to prevail, but currently I believe the way it is set up is unbalanced.  In my experience rangers can kill higher mobs, and can kill them faster than almost any other class, without much danger to themselves.  That is where I see the imbalance.  <BR><BR>And I'd like to point out some errors in your opinions on how tanks fight.  We will lose a battle of attrition.  I always have offensive stance up when soloing.  Defensive is only valuable in group situations.  We'd have to have a far higher boost in defensive capabilities to make up for the loss in damage.  Currently the key to soloing is damage.  Even if you can win a battle of atttrition, it is much faster to win it via damage.  That is why priests are, in general, so bad at soloing.  Sure they can keep themselves alive for a long time but it takes forever to kill the mob.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow!  Where do I start?  I play a Ranger and a Shadow Knight and I can tell you without a doubt that soloing with a SK is easier and much more safe than soloing with a Ranger.  Yellow ^^^ will drop my Ranger in 3-4 hits, while my SK can go toe-to-toe without a problem.  I usually die multiple times before I finally take down that heroic with my Ranger.  The conditons have to be absolutely perfect.  Poisons and imbues have to proc, and can't pick up any adds while moving around, assuming that you are in a place where it's possible to move around.  With my SK, I just pull to a safe spot and duke it out.  I rarely lose a battle of attrition, and defensive stance is not only useful in group situations but can save your rear if you have multiple mobs on you.  I switch between defensive and offensive constantly.  I may switch several times during the course of a long fight.</P> <P>The key to soloing is damage only if you can take a few hits yourself (read Tank).  For Rangers, the key to soloing is control of movement.  The only way a Ranger can kill a heroic is by controlling the mob's movement.  If the mob gets into mele range, the fight is over.  If we pick up and add, the fight is over.  If the poisons and imbues don't proc, the fight is over.  RAINJARR DOWN!!</P> <P>Last night I watched a pally the same level as myself drop a Yellow ^^^ and he ran out of power half way through the fight.  There is no way I could even attempt to take the same mob because it was in a tight area.  Way too many adds to kite.  Plus, a soloing Ranger with no power = dead Ranger.  It never occured to me that there may be a balance problem.  Maybe I'm missing the jealousy gene.</P> <P>Well, I guess I'm off to the Pally forums to complain about how over powered Pallys are and start my rant for a Pally nerf... Actually, since I couldn't care less about who can kill what, I'm going to go play EQ instead.</P> <P>Later.</P>

[Turtle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gareorn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EvilIguana966 wrote:<BR>You take more damage than I do in melee over a similar period of time, but currently you spend very little time in melee with the mob.  I am very much aware that scouts have to do a large amount of damage at the start of the fight in order to prevail, but currently I believe the way it is set up is unbalanced.  In my experience rangers can kill higher mobs, and can kill them faster than almost any other class, without much danger to themselves.  That is where I see the imbalance.  <BR><BR>And I'd like to point out some errors in your opinions on how tanks fight.  We will lose a battle of attrition.  I always have offensive stance up when soloing.  Defensive is only valuable in group situations.  We'd have to have a far higher boost in defensive capabilities to make up for the loss in damage.  Currently the key to soloing is damage.  Even if you can win a battle of atttrition, it is much faster to win it via damage.  That is why priests are, in general, so bad at soloing.  Sure they can keep themselves alive for a long time but it takes forever to kill the mob.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow!  Where do I start?  I play a Ranger and a Shadow Knight and I can tell you without a doubt that soloing with a SK is easier and much more safe than soloing with a Ranger.  Yellow ^^^ will drop my Ranger in 3-4 hits, while my SK can go toe-to-toe without a problem.  I usually die multiple times before I finally take down that heroic with my Ranger.  The conditons have to be absolutely perfect.  Poisons and imbues have to proc, and can't pick up any adds while moving around, assuming that you are in a place where it's possible to move around.  With my SK, I just pull to a safe spot and duke it out.  I rarely lose a battle of attrition, and defensive stance is not only useful in group situations but can save your rear if you have multiple mobs on you.  I switch between defensive and offensive constantly.  I may switch several times during the course of a long fight.</P> <P>The key to soloing is damage only if you can take a few hits yourself (read Tank).  For Rangers, the key to soloing is control of movement.  The only way a Ranger can kill a heroic is by controlling the mob's movement.  If the mob gets into mele range, the fight is over.  If we pick up and add, the fight is over.  If the poisons and imbues don't proc, the fight is over.  RAINJARR DOWN!!</P> <P>Last night I watched a pally the same level as myself drop a Yellow ^^^ and he ran out of power half way through the fight.  There is no way I could even attempt to take the same mob because it was in a tight area.  Way too many adds to kite.  Plus, a soloing Ranger with no power = dead Ranger.  It never occured to me that there may be a balance problem.  Maybe I'm missing the jealousy gene.</P> <P>Well, I guess I'm off to the Pally forums to complain about how over powered Pallys are and start my rant for a Pally nerf... Actually, since I couldn't care less about who can kill what, I'm going to go play EQ instead.</P> <P>Later.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LoL...Good Post Gareorn :smileyhappy:

[Teksun]

/salute Gareorn Well said <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Tevilspek]

<P>But.. but.. look! The grass is so greeeeen!!<BR><BR>/On topic<BR><BR>I've not played my 56 Ranger since this change, but have recently rolled a new one on a new server.<BR>And I'm at 17 now, so have 2 bow damage CAs.<BR>I've already noticed a big difference; unless I'm at max range with Backshot, it's rather hard to get the Open Shot off.<BR><BR>But I imagine this will change once I get a slow CA.<BR>Besides, I love a challenge, love this class, so we work with what we've got, rather than go flame on some other class' forum because of it.<BR><BR>Keep up the positive vibe fellow Rangers, is why I love our crew :smileyhappy:</P>

[Sokolov]

I find the new run speed makes kiting much more exciting by virtue of making it much more dangerous. It's more difficult certainly, but still doable.  Cheap Shot, back off slightly and using Precise Shot (or whatever in the line of double arrow) still works, etc. <div></div>

[juvondy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grueden wrote:<BR> <DIV>First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class.  I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all.  It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all.  Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee.<EM>  At the same time mind you.</EM>  I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me.  Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what?  Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability?  How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards?  There was a few mentions of kiting too.  Where's the skill in that?  Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt.  You just need to be smart about it.  If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, <EM>range</EM>.  Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal.  Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets?  NO!!!!  Absolutely not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now.  Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class.  If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some.  And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want.  Just means they die a little more tired is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greuden Raitfiend</DIV> <DIV>60 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Antonia Bayle</DIV> <DIV>Rangers > assassins</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Bravo...../e cheer</P> <P>Well put Greuden.</P> <P>Bodee, 42 ranger, Antonia Bayle</P>

[Frobus]

I just came back to the game after a break and was a tad saddened to see they killed kiting (Ok, they didn't kill it, but it's much harder now).  But I'm not going to complain much, it was ridiculous that I could solo yellow heroics without trying.  The new run speed does seem to be a tad on the extreme side, fighting harder mobs is even harder, but I can burn through solo mobs at breakneck speed.  Overall, I can't complain, sure soloing that uber hard mob is extremely tough now, as it should be...but soloing for exp, I still do great. <div></div>