New mob run speed, how are my fellow Rangers finding it?

Nulad · 12-21-2005, 04:31 PM

Me, nasty, not getting that extra ranged attack off before getting to melee range added to the proc removal of our secondary weapons is kinda hurting, not so bad against normal and downs but ^ and above it can be unpleasant. I'm willing to bet that the devs neglegted to think on how this change would affect ranged arts and I'm not just talking bows here...I wonder if we'll ever get a response?Ahhhh, that familiar nerf bat feeling SMILEY

Nul.

Mentla · 12-21-2005, 05:32 PM

Oh God, they didn't update my server until this morning I believe - what have they done to us now?!?!

Taeolen · 12-21-2005, 05:37 PM

It's too fast now. I can only get 1 bow shot in with my Ranger before the mob's on my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] eating me.

Bayler_x · 12-21-2005, 07:37 PM

Yeah, it hurts. I tried soloing the same mobs I had fought the day before, and I didn't have nearly as much control - I lost too many oportunities to fire. I found myself forced to melee too much. Didn't feel very rangery. SMILEY

Khevy · 12-21-2005, 08:53 PM

Yeah the run speed is buggy. On some mobs I used my legshot and slowed the mob down by 47% and I still was only able to get 2 shots off were as before I could get 4. Then like you others have said I was in melee and my second hand proc was very noticable not being there. Whith that said I also noticed that I would proc maybe 1-2 times in a melee fight.

I was in maj and got jumped by a thief. I was on my trusty little carpet and he still chased me down.

Mentla · 12-21-2005, 09:04 PM

Man, this is scary. Almost too afriad to download the update when I get home!

snack-machine · 12-21-2005, 09:10 PM

Yep, I can now only get my 2 best ranged attacks in before the mob reaches instead of the normal 3. Even before they increased our run speed I could get in 3 attacks...I mean teh run speed increase for the characters aminly allowed me to run across a zone a little faster but the end result has now effected my combat ability. While my running faster is nice....I'd prefer to be slow again and still get my 3 attacks in. In addition, It seemed as if with heroics I now am not able to use cheapshot and get an attack in as consistantly as before. Yes, I know about the only 2 second stun on heroics but since their now faster...they now seem to close that small gap faster and many times prevent me from getting in my ranged attack. Life goes on of course but I'm just a little sad.

Turtle · 12-22-2005, 08:51 AM

Hmmm....Well looks like we got nerfed thru the back door instead of the front. :smileysad: This takes away the Range from Rangers...at least while soloing anyway. More reason to use the stun type poisons and hope they proc every hit and prices go down on them...lol :smileyvery-happy:

Dear Santa,

Please have SOE give Rangers ranged attacks that cause stun, root, or slow enemys drastically.

Thank you,

Kindrid

Oh well at least all the other updates recently have been positives for Rangers, well except for the poison proc...

Message Edited by Turtle on 12-21-2005 11:23 PM

Klu · 12-22-2005, 12:33 PM

Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17?

AceMcVeer2 · 12-22-2005, 01:17 PM

Klund wrote:
Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17?

The Mobs are running faster now and we are still standing still... Before we would hit the mob and they would come after us and get there in lets say 5 seconds. Now they run faster so now they get there in 3.5 seconds. Well we are standing still so they arrive 1.5 seconds earlier than before. Before we were able to launch some more arrows in that time, now we have to get our swords out and get ready to melee.

Nulad · 12-22-2005, 01:22 PM

Klund wrote:Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17?

If we were able to cast all our CA's on the move it wouldn't be a problem, but apart from a couple all require you to be stood still so it exactly as explained above. Again, I'll point out that this is probably affecting a far wider audience than just rangers, we are not the only class to use ranged attacks of some sort or another. Nul.

Klu · 12-23-2005, 12:17 AM

Ah thanks for clarifying, indirect nerf indeed then for rangers/wizards/warlocks. I was wondering why they were all of a sudden changing running speeds...clearer to what they were doing now I guess... How bad is it though? Curious as I was wanting a high dps solo class and decided on a ranger.

Message Edited by Klund on 12-22-2005 11:19 AM

Bayler_x · 12-23-2005, 12:27 AM

At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.)

Jay · 12-23-2005, 01:17 AM

The only hunting I did yesterday was in the Elfin Wonderland, using enchanted snowballs. Warmed me ranja heart, being able to fire those puppies while running AND at PB range. SMILEY

So I haven't seen the new runspeed firsthand while soloing, but I imagine it will make things more difficult for us. That's fine. I didn't make a ranger because I liked things easy.

Bayler_x · 12-23-2005, 01:55 AM

::blush:: I didn't see that I had gotten the snowball pouch. I killed all the Elfin Wonderland critters with regular arrows.

Turtle · 12-23-2005, 02:17 AM

Doh :smileysad:

Yeah the pouch was very nice...I was killing everything in two hits :smileyhappy:

Shadesl · 12-24-2005, 04:25 AM

To me it's pretty bad, we never did fair to well vs ^ solo mobs yes we could take them by kiting but for xp'ing that's not to effective. I used to tend to fight solo down mobs in groups for the xp bonus. But with the changes there is very little room for error now. Truthfully I thought the changes would affect my Swash the most, but I was way off. Rangers aren't to great at soloing at all now, if you solo you'll likely do much better picking almost anything else at this point. Still good in groupd though.

Mephli · 12-24-2005, 05:35 AM

The mobs run speed should be slowed like ours is as soon as the fight is engaged, but it doesn't. In "my opinoion" its broken as is.... and really sucks.

Radgen · 12-24-2005, 06:28 AM

To me it's pretty bad, we never did fair to well vs ^ solo mobs yes we could take them by kiting but for xp'ing that's not to effective.

Errr...I never had real issues with single ^ heroics. Tough fights for sure, but even yellows I could(and still can) take without much issue.

EVen now It isn;t that big a deal. Yes I can notice the difference, but I tend to hit them with a snare first anyway, or due to enviroment issues, engage at much less than max range anyway. It was always faster for me to tear through groups of down arrow mobs than to hunt and engage in tough fights with heroics.

In fact I think this is a bigger affect than the proc changes. That is I dodn;t know it had happened would not have registered for me since I have percieved so little change.

Just changes tactics a bit. You are never gonna be able to stop adapting. These games always change. I was a dman good Ranger in EQ1, played a ridiculas amount and could pull off stuff I wasn't suppose to be bale to do(not cause I am uber, I just had WAY to much practice), but I know that if I went back now Fippy would probably hand me my rear end because I have no clue how the game is palyed now.

EvilIguana9 · 12-25-2005, 04:02 AM

Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.)

That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.

Mentla · 12-25-2005, 04:10 AM

EvilIguana966 wrote:
Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.)
That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.

Yes, but when it arives with that amount of health and hit us once how much damage do we take? A little bit more than you in your plate armor at a guess. You do realise a Paladin is a tank, don't you?

Gareorn · 12-25-2005, 06:09 AM

A tank coming to a DPS class forum and complaining about his inability to match our DPS... Priceless. What's next, Clerics who can't shoot arrows? LOL

Nulad · 12-25-2005, 06:31 AM

Yeh, and with it's 30% health said mob will smack most Rangers silly, if you are going to compare then you need to take the whole class into account not just one aspect of it. Soloing ^^^ yellows is something I cant do, even with the right poisons. If a ^^^ yellow mob got to me with even 5% health left chances are very good that I'd be dead well before it hit 3% health. We depend on taking most of a mobs health off them before they get to melee range and it must be a very fine balance for the devs to get right, too little damage and we die like flies, too much and we're overpowered. As I have stated before, if anything is overpowered its the poison, not us. Nul.

Grueden · 12-25-2005, 12:32 PM

First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class. I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out.

The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all. It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all. Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee. At the same time mind you. I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me. Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different?

To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what? Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability? How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards? There was a few mentions of kiting too. Where's the skill in that? Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt. You just need to be smart about it. If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, range. Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal. Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets? NO!!!! Absolutely not.

My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now. Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all.

To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class. If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some. And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want. Just means they die a little more tired is all.

Greuden Raitfiend

60 Ranger

Antonia Bayle

Rangers > assassins

Bayler_x · 12-25-2005, 12:44 PM

EvilIguana966 wrote:
Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.)
That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.

I'm not talking about yellow+++'s. These are solo mobs - we're meant to be able to kill them. And being orange-'s, it should be a tough fight. And it is - I don't always win. And keep in mind, these are fights chosen according to my capabilities. As stated above, rangers are *supposed* to fight with ranged attacks. Just like mages. When the mob makes it to melee range, we get beat up a lot, and we can't do much damage any more. You, on the other hand, are a paladin. You're *not* supposed to fight with ranged attacks. I'd guess that the purpose of your DD spells, in fact, isn't actually the damage so much as the agro or debuf or whatever. (I could be wrong - I've never played a paladin.) You're supposed to stand toe to toe with a mob, hitting him with your sword while he hits you with his. And you do much better than we do in those kinds of fights.

Nulad · 12-25-2005, 02:05 PM

Grueden wrote:

First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class. I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out.

The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all. It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all. Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee. At the same time mind you. I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me. Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different?

To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what? Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability? How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards? There was a few mentions of kiting too. Where's the skill in that? Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt. You just need to be smart about it. If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, range. Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal. Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets? NO!!!! Absolutely not.

My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now. Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all.

To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class. If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some. And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want. Just means they die a little more tired is all.

Greuden Raitfiend

60 Ranger

Antonia Bayle

Rangers > assassins

Stop confusing the issue, I haven't seen one post in here yet that says 'Bahhhhwwwahahaha, I can't solo anymore!!!' It was a simple question as to how my fellow Rangers are finding the change, the general feeling by the looks of things is that it's made life a little harder but isn't a problem in the least. Then things changed as to why you cannot compare a tank with a Ranger via ranged damage output, again nobody said that they couldn't solo anymore. Having said all that, I am still convinced that SOE failed to take into account ranged arts users whith this change, us, wizzy's and whoever else uses them. Nul.

EvilIguana9 · 12-25-2005, 04:12 PM

Mentla wrote:
EvilIguana966 wrote:
Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.)
That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.
Yes, but when it arives with that amount of health and hit us once how much damage do we take? A little bit more than you in your plate armor at a guess. You do realise a Paladin is a tank, don't you?

Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out. But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all. Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me. If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own SMILEY

Bayler_x · 12-25-2005, 09:05 PM

EvilIguana966 wrote: Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out. But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all. Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me. If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own

You're mistaken when you say that we do more melee damage; it's certainly wrong to say that it evens out. To do good damage, we need to be at a distance so we can use our bows. Failing that, we need to have access to the enemy's back, and chances to hide. When we're fighting toe-to-toe, we generally don't have any of those options. (We have a stun that lets us use them to a certain degree, but not nearly as much as we would in a group fight.) And please don't downplay the difference in how much damage we take. Then, too, we have no ability to heal, other than potions. I do agree that it could be interesting to fight mobs with bows. But keep in mind that when soloing, we'd still get to choose which mobs we fight, and we'd avoid ones that negated our advantages.

Grueden · 12-26-2005, 11:10 PM

Yeah, I went off on a tangent a little. Was reading a few different posts and everything came out in the one post I replied to. But generally, I don't mind the changes too much. Now when mobs run faster than I can again, then I'll be a bit more worried.

Sephr · 12-27-2005, 06:05 AM

I wish that mobs would need some time to figure out where we are, when we shoot into their backs...from a conceal position, blended into the enviroment. (emerald armor in forrests/bushes for instance), or when we break Line of sight right after a shot, acting as a medieval sniper.

12-21-2005, 04:31 PM	#1
Nulad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 638	Me, nasty, not getting that extra ranged attack off before getting to melee range added to the proc removal of our secondary weapons is kinda hurting, not so bad against normal and downs but ^ and above it can be unpleasant. I'm willing to bet that the devs neglegted to think on how this change would affect ranged arts and I'm not just talking bows here...I wonder if we'll ever get a response?Ahhhh, that familiar nerf bat feeling Nul. __________________

12-21-2005, 05:32 PM	#2
Mentla Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 682	Oh God, they didn't update my server until this morning I believe - what have they done to us now?!?! __________________

12-21-2005, 05:37 PM	#3
Taeolen Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 156	It's too fast now. I can only get 1 bow shot in with my Ranger before the mob's on my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] eating me. __________________ Yes, I'm probably mostly joking.

12-21-2005, 07:37 PM	#4
Bayler_x General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 415	Yeah, it hurts. I tried soloing the same mobs I had fought the day before, and I didn't have nearly as much control - I lost too many oportunities to fire. I found myself forced to melee too much. Didn't feel very rangery. __________________ Lokimor Human Coercer / Sage Venekor

12-21-2005, 09:04 PM	#6
Mentla Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 682	Man, this is scary. Almost too afriad to download the update when I get home! __________________

12-21-2005, 08:53 PM	#5
Khevy General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 32	Yeah the run speed is buggy. On some mobs I used my legshot and slowed the mob down by 47% and I still was only able to get 2 shots off were as before I could get 4. Then like you others have said I was in melee and my second hand proc was very noticable not being there. Whith that said I also noticed that I would proc maybe 1-2 times in a melee fight. I was in maj and got jumped by a thief. I was on my trusty little carpet and he still chased me down.

12-21-2005, 09:10 PM	#7
snack-machine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Yep, I can now only get my 2 best ranged attacks in before the mob reaches instead of the normal 3. Even before they increased our run speed I could get in 3 attacks...I mean teh run speed increase for the characters aminly allowed me to run across a zone a little faster but the end result has now effected my combat ability. While my running faster is nice....I'd prefer to be slow again and still get my 3 attacks in. In addition, It seemed as if with heroics I now am not able to use cheapshot and get an attack in as consistantly as before. Yes, I know about the only 2 second stun on heroics but since their now faster...they now seem to close that small gap faster and many times prevent me from getting in my ranged attack. Life goes on of course but I'm just a little sad.

12-22-2005, 08:51 AM	#8
Turtle Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 71	Hmmm....Well looks like we got nerfed thru the back door instead of the front. :smileysad: This takes away the Range from Rangers...at least while soloing anyway. More reason to use the stun type poisons and hope they proc every hit and prices go down on them...lol :smileyvery-happy: Dear Santa, Please have SOE give Rangers ranged attacks that cause stun, root, or slow enemys drastically. Thank you, Kindrid Oh well at least all the other updates recently have been positives for Rangers, well except for the poison proc... Message Edited by Turtle on 12-21-2005 11:23 PM

12-22-2005, 12:33 PM	#9
Klu Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 67	Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17?

12-22-2005, 01:17 PM	#10
AceMcVeer2 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	Klund wrote: Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17? The Mobs are running faster now and we are still standing still... Before we would hit the mob and they would come after us and get there in lets say 5 seconds. Now they run faster so now they get there in 3.5 seconds. Well we are standing still so they arrive 1.5 seconds earlier than before. Before we were able to launch some more arrows in that time, now we have to get our swords out and get ready to melee.

12-22-2005, 01:22 PM	#11
Nulad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 638	Klund wrote:Not saying your wrong or anything but curious as to how its different than pre LU17 now? I mean if in fact players got a run speed bonus in LU17 and mobs now got the same bonus in LU18 then shouldnt it even itself out and be nearly the same as pre-LU17? If we were able to cast all our CA's on the move it wouldn't be a problem, but apart from a couple all require you to be stood still so it exactly as explained above. Again, I'll point out that this is probably affecting a far wider audience than just rangers, we are not the only class to use ranged attacks of some sort or another. Nul. __________________

12-23-2005, 12:17 AM	#12
Klu Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 67	Ah thanks for clarifying, indirect nerf indeed then for rangers/wizards/warlocks. I was wondering why they were all of a sudden changing running speeds...clearer to what they were doing now I guess... How bad is it though? Curious as I was wanting a high dps solo class and decided on a ranger. Message Edited by Klund on 12-22-2005 11:19 AM

12-23-2005, 12:27 AM	#13
Bayler_x General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 415	At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) __________________ Lokimor Human Coercer / Sage Venekor

12-23-2005, 01:17 AM	#14
Jay General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,137	The only hunting I did yesterday was in the Elfin Wonderland, using enchanted snowballs. Warmed me ranja heart, being able to fire those puppies while running AND at PB range. So I haven't seen the new runspeed firsthand while soloing, but I imagine it will make things more difficult for us. That's fine. I didn't make a ranger because I liked things easy. __________________

12-23-2005, 01:55 AM	#15
Bayler_x General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 415	::blush:: I didn't see that I had gotten the snowball pouch. I killed all the Elfin Wonderland critters with regular arrows. __________________ Lokimor Human Coercer / Sage Venekor

12-23-2005, 02:17 AM	#16
Turtle Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 71	Doh :smileysad: Yeah the pouch was very nice...I was killing everything in two hits :smileyhappy:

12-24-2005, 04:25 AM	#17
Shadesl Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	To me it's pretty bad, we never did fair to well vs ^ solo mobs yes we could take them by kiting but for xp'ing that's not to effective. I used to tend to fight solo down mobs in groups for the xp bonus. But with the changes there is very little room for error now. Truthfully I thought the changes would affect my Swash the most, but I was way off. Rangers aren't to great at soloing at all now, if you solo you'll likely do much better picking almost anything else at this point. Still good in groupd though. __________________ Sanshou

12-24-2005, 05:35 AM	#18
Mephli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 82	The mobs run speed should be slowed like ours is as soon as the fight is engaged, but it doesn't. In "my opinoion" its broken as is.... and really sucks.

12-24-2005, 06:28 AM	#19
Radgen Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 19	To me it's pretty bad, we never did fair to well vs ^ solo mobs yes we could take them by kiting but for xp'ing that's not to effective. Errr...I never had real issues with single ^ heroics. Tough fights for sure, but even yellows I could(and still can) take without much issue. EVen now It isn;t that big a deal. Yes I can notice the difference, but I tend to hit them with a snare first anyway, or due to enviroment issues, engage at much less than max range anyway. It was always faster for me to tear through groups of down arrow mobs than to hunt and engage in tough fights with heroics. In fact I think this is a bigger affect than the proc changes. That is I dodn;t know it had happened would not have registered for me since I have percieved so little change. Just changes tactics a bit. You are never gonna be able to stop adapting. These games always change. I was a dman good Ranger in EQ1, played a ridiculas amount and could pull off stuff I wasn't suppose to be bale to do(not cause I am uber, I just had WAY to much practice), but I know that if I went back now Fippy would probably hand me my rear end because I have no clue how the game is palyed now.

12-25-2005, 04:02 AM	#20
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong.

12-25-2005, 04:10 AM	#21
Mentla Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 682	EvilIguana966 wrote: Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong. Yes, but when it arives with that amount of health and hit us once how much damage do we take? A little bit more than you in your plate armor at a guess. You do realise a Paladin is a tank, don't you? __________________

12-25-2005, 06:09 AM	#22
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	A tank coming to a DPS class forum and complaining about his inability to match our DPS... Priceless. What's next, Clerics who can't shoot arrows? LOL __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

12-25-2005, 06:31 AM	#23
Nulad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 638	Yeh, and with it's 30% health said mob will smack most Rangers silly, if you are going to compare then you need to take the whole class into account not just one aspect of it. Soloing ^^^ yellows is something I cant do, even with the right poisons. If a ^^^ yellow mob got to me with even 5% health left chances are very good that I'd be dead well before it hit 3% health. We depend on taking most of a mobs health off them before they get to melee range and it must be a very fine balance for the devs to get right, too little damage and we die like flies, too much and we're overpowered. As I have stated before, if anything is overpowered its the poison, not us. Nul. __________________

12-25-2005, 12:32 PM	#24
Grueden Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Ant Posts: 4	First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class. I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out. The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all. It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all. Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee. At the same time mind you. I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me. Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different? To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what? Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability? How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards? There was a few mentions of kiting too. Where's the skill in that? Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt. You just need to be smart about it. If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, range. Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal. Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets? NO!!!! Absolutely not. My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now. Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all. To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class. If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some. And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want. Just means they die a little more tired is all. Greuden Raitfiend 60 Ranger Antonia Bayle Rangers > assassins __________________ Greuden Raitfiend 60 Ranger Antonia Bayle Rangers > assassins Take that arrow out yer neck and say that again.

12-25-2005, 12:44 PM	#25
Bayler_x General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 415	EvilIguana966 wrote: Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong. I'm not talking about yellow+++'s. These are solo mobs - we're meant to be able to kill them. And being orange-'s, it should be a tough fight. And it is - I don't always win. And keep in mind, these are fights chosen according to my capabilities. As stated above, rangers are supposed to fight with ranged attacks. Just like mages. When the mob makes it to melee range, we get beat up a lot, and we can't do much damage any more. You, on the other hand, are a paladin. You're not supposed to fight with ranged attacks. I'd guess that the purpose of your DD spells, in fact, isn't actually the damage so much as the agro or debuf or whatever. (I could be wrong - I've never played a paladin.) You're supposed to stand toe to toe with a mob, hitting him with your sword while he hits you with his. And you do much better than we do in those kinds of fights. __________________ Lokimor Human Coercer / Sage Venekor

12-25-2005, 02:05 PM	#26
Nulad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 638	Grueden wrote: First, to all the Rangers out there whining about not being able to solo, please delete you char and make another non-scout class. I will agree that it does suck a tad that your average Ranger can't solo as well as they could, however I must applaud SOE because now the unskilled can be weeded out. The slight increase in run speed doesn't bother me at all. It just means I need to adjust my strategy a little, that's all. Yeah, I loved it back in the day when I could solo 2 green ^^ firerock goliaths purely by melee. At the same time mind you. I had a rude awakening after the combat revamp when I went up against a ^^ green and got my dual-breed buttocks handed to me. Rather than throw a fit and curse out SOE, why not try something different? To those that want to cry and curse out SOE because Rangers don't hit as hard as wizzies, so what? Would you really want to exchange dps for survivability? How many of us have grouped with a wiz that nukes for 4k+ then dies shortly afterwards? There was a few mentions of kiting too. Where's the skill in that? Rangers have all the tools they need to kick alot of butt. You just need to be smart about it. If you haven't figured out by now, poisons, snare, and stun are your friends. Rangers are damage dealers that do their best dps at, hold the phones, range. Moaning about Ranger melee dps is sorta like a mage begging for a heal. Wouldn't it be great if Rangers had more melee dps, higher mitigation, could heal, and had uber pets? NO!!!! Absolutely not. My only real complaint is the number of mobs that can see through stealth now. Not a game ending thing, just annoying is all. To wrap up, Rangers are an awesome class. If you've never had people in group ask you to slow down on dps because you're making the other dps classes look bad, or had a healer say they feel useless because you're killing the mobs too fast, step up your game some. And SOE can make the mobs run as fast as they want. Just means they die a little more tired is all. Greuden Raitfiend 60 Ranger Antonia Bayle Rangers > assassins Stop confusing the issue, I haven't seen one post in here yet that says 'Bahhhhwwwahahaha, I can't solo anymore!!!' It was a simple question as to how my fellow Rangers are finding the change, the general feeling by the looks of things is that it's made life a little harder but isn't a problem in the least. Then things changed as to why you cannot compare a tank with a Ranger via ranged damage output, again nobody said that they couldn't solo anymore. Having said all that, I am still convinced that SOE failed to take into account ranged arts users whith this change, us, wizzy's and whoever else uses them. Nul. __________________

12-25-2005, 04:12 PM	#27
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	Mentla wrote: EvilIguana966 wrote: Bayler_xev wrote:At 41, I can still solo - just not quite as easily as before. I have to pay more attention to my CA timers, since I have fewer options. The difference seems to be a matter of the mob arriving in melee range with 30% of its health left, instead of 5% now. (That's against orange down-arrow singles.) That was apparently not intended to be funny, but if you go back and look at it maybe you'll see the humor too. As a paladin, when I pull a solo con with my highest DD spell it arrives at 95% of it's life. To have a mob almost dead before it even has a chance to get off an attack is just obscenely overpowered. Watching rangers solo kill yellow +++ named mobs demonstrates the degree to which rangers are broken. I don't really mind you guys being great dps, because a ranger to me is something that screams dps, but taking no damage while doing it is just wrong. Yes, but when it arives with that amount of health and hit us once how much damage do we take? A little bit more than you in your plate armor at a guess. You do realise a Paladin is a tank, don't you? Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out. But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all. Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me. If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own

12-25-2005, 09:05 PM	#28
Bayler_x General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 415	EvilIguana966 wrote: Yes you take more damage in melee, but you also do more in melee so it hypothetically balances out. But if you kill a mob in a few seconds before it even has a chance to fight back you are taking far far less damage than I am because you simply aren't getting hit much if at all. Taking less damage, doing more damage, doesn't seem quite balanced to me. If it were up to me I'd remedy the situation by equipping more npcs with bows of their own You're mistaken when you say that we do more melee damage; it's certainly wrong to say that it evens out. To do good damage, we need to be at a distance so we can use our bows. Failing that, we need to have access to the enemy's back, and chances to hide. When we're fighting toe-to-toe, we generally don't have any of those options. (We have a stun that lets us use them to a certain degree, but not nearly as much as we would in a group fight.) And please don't downplay the difference in how much damage we take. Then, too, we have no ability to heal, other than potions. I do agree that it could be interesting to fight mobs with bows. But keep in mind that when soloing, we'd still get to choose which mobs we fight, and we'd avoid ones that negated our advantages. __________________ Lokimor Human Coercer / Sage Venekor

12-26-2005, 11:10 PM	#29
Grueden Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Ant Posts: 4	Yeah, I went off on a tangent a little. Was reading a few different posts and everything came out in the one post I replied to. But generally, I don't mind the changes too much. Now when mobs run faster than I can again, then I'll be a bit more worried. __________________ Greuden Raitfiend 60 Ranger Antonia Bayle Rangers > assassins Take that arrow out yer neck and say that again.

12-27-2005, 06:05 AM	#30
Sephr Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 14	I wish that mobs would need some time to figure out where we are, when we shoot into their backs...from a conceal position, blended into the enviroment. (emerald armor in forrests/bushes for instance), or when we break Line of sight right after a shot, acting as a medieval sniper.