Please fix us Bards already [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Jaimster

04-05-2006, 02:02 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dakwa wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div></div>I didn't realise we were broken.<hr></blockquote><p>I agree. I play a Dirge that is very capible in the field to hadle many incounters. Taking out up to five one up of one level above my dirge at one time is not new, or even three that are three lvls above him.</p><p>So what is wrong with the Bard, as the Dirge is one and plays very well and with a good survivibility in the game.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Okay, he should have said Troubadors were broken, but I imagine he was being kind figuring if Troubs were broken Dirges might be too. I can't even begin to live in a dream world where I would be able to accomplish the above solo... but then I recall feeling like my DPS was better at lower levels (or people just hadn't started parsing me yet and ignorance is bliss)...</p><p>Troubadors have about zip for personal DPS. I know, we're more of a utility type, but c'mon now... it never bothered me until I realized just how little damage I can actually do. I have no trouble getting groups (which is a good thing since I can't solo) and I can make myself feel better knowing that all my buffs and debuffs are making everyone ELSE do super dps... but it's a little sad when at 63 my DPS is about the same as a level 35 monk's... A troubador is still a scout class right???</p><p>Message Edited by Jaimster on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:05 PM</span></p>

Seidhkona

04-05-2006, 02:08 AM

<blockquote><font size="3" color="#ffff00">1) Our personal DPS is nowhere near where it should be. With everyone and their brother getting critical hits achievement options, all classes besides perhaps Clerics and Guardians are outdamaging us now.</font></blockquote>As a paladin, I am HIGHLY dubious about this assertion! You could sneeze and have higher DPS than I do most of the time (grin).<blockquote><font size="3" color="#ffff00"><snippage> 3) There is almost no Chain armor with intelligence on it, so I'm forced to use leather or cloth to improve my own damage, in turn making it harder to solo.</font></blockquote>Huh? Just a few minutes Googling gets me:<blockquote><font size="3">Forged Blackened Iron Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 59 <b>Int: +2</b> Wis: +3 vs.Divine: +30 vs.Mental: +30</font><font size="3">Feysteel Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 119<b> Int: +4</b> Wis: +8 Hlt: +20 Pwr: +24 vs.Divine: +154 vs.Mental: +110</font><font size="3">Ravenring Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 120 <b>Int: +6</b> Wis: +6 Hlt: +17 Pwr: +15 vs.Divine: +110 vs.Mental: +110</font><font size="3">Pristine Forged Carbonite Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 128 <b>Int: +4</b> Str: +2 Hlt: +10 Pwr: +10 vs.Divine: +110 vs.Poison: +66</font><font size="3">Pristine Forged Feysteel Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 132 <b>Int: +8</b> Wis: +6 Hlt: +28 Pwr: +24 vs.Divine: +180 vs.Mental: +240</font><font size="3">Magma Linked Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 144 <b>Int: +6</b> Wis: +8 Hlt: +25 Pwr: +26 vs.Divine: +132 vs.Mental: +176</font><font size="3">Ebon Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 150 <b>Int: +7</b> Wis: +9 Hlt: +31 Pwr: +29 vs.Divine: +154 vs.Mental: +176</font><font size="3">Enchanted Tae Ew Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 153 <b>Int: +9</b> Wis: +9 Hlt: +35 Pwr: +21 vs.Divine: +176 vs.Mental: +132</font><font size="3">Feysteel Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 165 <b>Int: +8</b> Str: +4 Hlt: +22 Pwr: +22 vs.Divine: +210 vs.Poison: +150</font><font size="3">Forged Feysteel Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 206 <b>Int: +4</b> Str: +7 Hlt: +24 Pwr: + 18 vs.Divine: +224 vs.Poison: + 128</font><font size="3">Pristine Forged Feysteel Chainmail Leggings</font><font size="3">Mit: 218<b> Int: +5</b> int Str: +9 Hlt: +25 Pwr: +27 vs.Cold: +224 vs.Poison: +224</font><font size="3">Ebon Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 225 <b>Int: +7</b> Str: +9 Hlt: +33 Pwr: +27 vs.Divine: +198 vs.Poison: +132</font><font size="3">Forged Ebon Chainmail Leggings</font><font size="3">Mit: 238 <b>Int: +10</b> Str: +6 Hlt: +24 Pwr: +30 vs.Cold: +320 vs.Poison: +240</font></blockquote>I would also suggest getting a pair of hex dolls to boost INT and stick 'em in the charm slots. Ask your local tailors to make these -- they require an imbuing potion for the appropriate tier, and the rare root (Sisal, Figwarts, etc.):<ul><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Burlap Hex Doll<b> Int: +4</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Canvas Hex Doll <b>Int: +5</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Broadcloth Hex Doll <b>Int: +6</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Roughspun Hex Doll <b>Int: +9</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Ruckas Hex Doll <b>Int: +10</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Cloth Hex Doll <b>Int: +11</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Linen Hex Doll <b>Int: +12</b></li></ul>With my early training as an outfitter, I found I was easily able to make the Roughspun doll myself (I'm now an armorer lvl 31). Your tailor will be able to craft vetter ones for you.<div></div>

Daramm

04-05-2006, 02:22 AM

I'm broken? Hmph, never knew that. Guess I'm not having fun then. Thanks for letting me know. I guess that 50% of the level (including quite a few yellow single ups) I soloed last night was an optical illusion.

vinterskugge

04-05-2006, 02:24 AM

<blockquote><p>Right now, my INT is 510. That's self buffed, I'm ungrouped. All armour is chain, no cloth or leather. I have pretty good gear, but even so, it should be easy to find some chain drops with int.</p><p> </p><p>Also, we can solo.</p><p><img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1074981/EQ2_000035.jpg"></p><p>It can be tough, but test out different tactics and methods and see if you can find something that works for you. It can be done.</p></blockquote>

Dak

04-05-2006, 02:47 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Seidhkona wrote:<blockquote><font size="3" color="#ffff00">1) Our personal DPS is nowhere near where it should be. With everyone and their brother getting critical hits achievement options, all classes besides perhaps Clerics and Guardians are outdamaging us now.</font></blockquote>As a paladin, I am HIGHLY dubious about this assertion! You could sneeze and have higher DPS than I do most of the time (grin).<blockquote><font size="3" color="#ffff00">3) There is almost no Chain armor with intelligence on it, so I'm forced to use leather or cloth to improve my own damage, in turn making it harder to solo.</font></blockquote>Huh? Just a few minutes Googling gets me:<blockquote><font size="3">Forged Blackened Iron Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 59 <b>Int: +2</b> Wis: +3 vs.Divine: +30 vs.Mental: +30</font><font size="3">Feysteel Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 119<b> Int: +4</b> Wis: +8 Hlt: +20 Pwr: +24 vs.Divine: +154 vs.Mental: +110</font><font size="3">Ravenring Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 120 <b>Int: +6</b> Wis: +6 Hlt: +17 Pwr: +15 vs.Divine: +110 vs.Mental: +110</font><font size="3">Pristine Forged Carbonite Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 128 <b>Int: +4</b> Str: +2 Hlt: +10 Pwr: +10 vs.Divine: +110 vs.Poison: +66</font><font size="3">Pristine Forged Feysteel Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 132 <b>Int: +8</b> Wis: +6 Hlt: +28 Pwr: +24 vs.Divine: +180 vs.Mental: +240</font><font size="3">Magma Linked Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 144 <b>Int: +6</b> Wis: +8 Hlt: +25 Pwr: +26 vs.Divine: +132 vs.Mental: +176</font><font size="3">Ebon Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 150 <b>Int: +7</b> Wis: +9 Hlt: +31 Pwr: +29 vs.Divine: +154 vs.Mental: +176</font><font size="3">Enchanted Tae Ew Chainmail Coif</font><font size="3">Mit: 153 <b>Int: +9</b> Wis: +9 Hlt: +35 Pwr: +21 vs.Divine: +176 vs.Mental: +132</font><font size="3">Feysteel Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 165 <b>Int: +8</b> Str: +4 Hlt: +22 Pwr: +22 vs.Divine: +210 vs.Poison: +150</font><font size="3">Forged Feysteel Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 206 <b>Int: +4</b> Str: +7 Hlt: +24 Pwr: + 18 vs.Divine: +224 vs.Poison: + 128</font><font size="3">Pristine Forged Feysteel Chainmail Leggings</font><font size="3">Mit: 218<b> Int: +5</b> int Str: +9 Hlt: +25 Pwr: +27 vs.Cold: +224 vs.Poison: +224</font><font size="3">Ebon Chainmail Bracers</font><font size="3">Mit: 225 <b>Int: +7</b> Str: +9 Hlt: +33 Pwr: +27 vs.Divine: +198 vs.Poison: +132</font><font size="3">Forged Ebon Chainmail Leggings</font><font size="3">Mit: 238 <b>Int: +10</b> Str: +6 Hlt: +24 Pwr: +30 vs.Cold: +320 vs.Poison: +240</font></blockquote>I would also suggest getting a pair of hex dolls to boost INT and stick 'em in the charm slots. Ask your local tailors to make these -- they require an imbuing potion for the appropriate tier, and the rare root (Sisal, Figwarts, etc.):<ul><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Burlap Hex Doll<b> Int: +4</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Canvas Hex Doll <b>Int: +5</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Broadcloth Hex Doll <b>Int: +6</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Roughspun Hex Doll <b>Int: +9</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Ruckas Hex Doll <b>Int: +10</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Cloth Hex Doll <b>Int: +11</b></li><li>Pristine Chaos Imbued Linen Hex Doll <b>Int: +12</b></li></ul>With my early training as an outfitter, I found I was easily able to make the Roughspun doll myself (I'm now an armorer lvl 31). Your tailor will be able to craft vetter ones for you.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>My Dirge has a chain mail tunic mt- 171 int +4.</p><p>Imbued Feysteel Leggings mt- 191 Str +11 Int + 7</p><p>Chainmail Sleeves mt 138 Int + 5</p><p>Chainmail Gloves mt 148 Int + 5</p><p>Chainmail Boots my 127 int +7</p><p>and a leather coif mt 117 int +5</p><p>I cannot remember the rest of the stats on these but there is a lot of Chainmail for scouts that have int bonuses.</p><p> </p>

Dali

04-05-2006, 04:40 AM

The items listed were all between Tiers 2 and 5, none of them T6 or T7. And I agree, in those tiers the INT is not a problem yet. But now, at 67, my INT is 367, and that's with Fabled items like the Bangles of Melodic Speed and Flared Royal Bracers AND Ad3 T6 Daeli's.I group in KoS every single day, and have never seen any +INT chain pieces drop. The same went for DoF, the raid drops aside. Thus, I wear leather and cloth to improve on my INT score, and still manage to reach only 367.We're not broken, we're just not in the third damage tier as stated shortly after LU13. And soloing... I use health regen, avoidance, self buff, proc and power regen songs, a shield and a decent one-hander with INT on it and still can't take down a ^ solo mob 9 levels below me without risking my life at every step. And yes, I debuff mental before I go in. Does this sound like it's working as intended?On the topic of paladins: I can only speak of the paladins I'm grouped with at times, and they sure do outdamage me. And if it's not the case for every paladin, at least you get the option to choose to go offensive or defensive, which I thoroughly lack.And I do realise we can solo. I can take down heroics and even heroic nameds given enough time, level difference and space. It's the solo mobs that are a hazard to my health. I soloed the Menagerie on a bored night when I was 59, but it did take me 45 minutes and meticulous mezzing.<p>Message Edited by Dalinn on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:44 PM</span></p>

Aienaa

04-05-2006, 09:34 AM

<div></div><p></p><hr><font color="#ffff00">I use health regen, avoidance, self buff, proc and power regen songs, a shield and a decent one-hander with INT on it and still can't take down a ^ solo mob 9 levels below me without risking my life at every step. And yes, I debuff mental before I go in. Does this sound like it's working as intended?</font><hr><p>Hmmm... I was playing my level 57 Troubador the other day in TT... I had no problems soloing any of the mobs on that first island... Was even soloing the yellow con ^ and the groups of 2 no arrow yellow con mobs.... I mostly have Cobalt armor / weapons and the only fabled I have is the Flared Royal Bracer and a ring from killing the dragon when KOS launched... If I remember correctly, without switching out any of my gear for additional Int gear, I am currently sitting at nearly 300 Int.... </p><p>Now then, I have a 70 Troubador friend, who is also in my guild, and during raids she is constantly way over 500 Int and swaps out gear for added Strength gear... But, when you look at DPS, yes the Troubador could definatly use some DPS tuning as I believe they should be able to put out a bit more.... But, I have also seen her do over 4k DPS on AE encounters in PPR...</p><p>Just want to note that the armor listed previously is mostly all the same armor slots... Prior to T7, it was incredably hard to find Int in certian slot, but With T7's Melodic Chain Armor, you can get Int for every armor slot....</p><p> </p><p>Gwern - 70 Assassin / Parody - 57 Troubador / Nilla - 70 Alchemist</p>

firza

04-05-2006, 11:47 AM

<div></div><p>As a dirge I have never (or not lately:smileytongue<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> NOT been outdammaged by a palladin in my group.</p><p>of course I can claim a small (remember very small) portion of his/her dps, but still it hurts.</p><p>For dirges I would say we need either of one fixes:</p><p>- : Make DPS buffs mean something. Currently only our defensive buffs are worth it.</p><p>- : Or increase our dps to get us back in that tier 3.</p><p>Only putting some more int on chain pieces (I agree, we could use some more...) won't make enough a difference.</p>

Jal

04-05-2006, 12:01 PM

Hmm well cant say ive ever had an issue with my troubs intelligence, its my highest stat and always has been. I solo'ed to 54 just fine so i'd recommend changing your approach to killing things, do some quests for int gear such as the nektulos line for a nice +8/9 int necklace that will last you until you get flowing orbs. Cuffs of the storm scholar are +7 int i believe and you can do that quest pretty easily, harvest and buy some imbued rings if necessary and get some hex dolls made.

Ciela

04-05-2006, 01:06 PM

Cynnigig

04-05-2006, 03:48 PM

<div></div><p>As a level 61 troubadour, I don't really mind our dps. I personally only heard that it is an issue, when reading these boards. Having more dps would be nice, but I don't think it would add to solo survivability, just make fights faster. Maybe I have just learnt to deal with our dps as it is right now (I learnt to play my class, I guess).</p><p>But I must say I am a bit scared of all these cries for more dps, because if SOE heeds them, then I suspect they will have to reduce some of our other capabilities, so that we do not become overpowered. That I do not want at all.</p>

LanatirInno

04-05-2006, 03:59 PM

<div>To the OP:</div><div> </div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=54579" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=54579</a></div>

Poids

04-05-2006, 04:32 PM

1. I got out-damaged by a paladin in raid situations as he was pulling about 1k DPS with all hsi crits.2. All the items that was listed were coifs/bracers/leggings and they all have INT in their crafted form. Not saying you can't get other items, but poor example.3. Dirges are kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at soloing. In fact, I'd say a well played dirge is one of the best soloers there is. With the STA line I could easily tank blue con heroics solo. And I soloed plenty of orange con heroics by kiting.<div></div>

Zoki

04-05-2006, 05:14 PM

Might also want to think about using a really good shield (perhaps rare imbued) and a really good 1 Handed Weapon when soloing. I found that when soloing that makes a huge difference in the mobs I can take down (without dieing). Remember that only primary hand weapon will proc, so what you gain by a high damage rating weapon makes up for it (if it has a proc, all the better). Hope that helps a little.<div></div>

Jal

04-05-2006, 05:17 PM

I thought they did away with the primary hand proc thing ages ago.

Frigid2000

04-05-2006, 06:27 PM

<div></div><p>I have to agree with the OP regarding Troubador's DPS. I don't see how you can solo that mob in your screenshot. You must have full fabled and all master 1 spells or something? I have the best crafted armor for my level, all my spells are adept 1's, and heroic mobs will kill me in under 10 seconds, every time.</p><p>I can't take the damage and I can't output it either. Our spells do NOTHING to counteract that fact.</p>

Daramm

04-05-2006, 06:31 PM

<blockquote><hr>Frigid2000 wrote:<div></div><p>I have to agree with the OP regarding Troubador's DPS. I don't see how you can solo that mob in your screenshot. You must have full fabled and all master 1 spells or something? I have the best crafted armor for my level, all my spells are adept 1's, and heroic mobs will kill me in under 10 seconds, every time.</p><p>I can't take the damage and I can't output it either. Our spells do NOTHING to counteract that fact.</p><hr></blockquote>Are you trying to stand toe-to-toe and <b><i>melee</i></b> the mob?

Frigid2000

04-05-2006, 06:34 PM

<div></div><p>What else can you do? From what I've seen in combat, our health/power regens that are SUPPOSED to be functioning in-combat are not working at this time. I've tried the whole mez/nuke, mez/nuke, mez/nuke and I'd be out of power LONG before the mob was dead, because we're not regening anything.</p><p>Don't even talk to me about kiting or charm. Both break way too often to even bother being useful, and kiting there's never any room to begin with unless you're stupidly lucky.</p>

Cynnigig

04-05-2006, 06:43 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Frigid2000 wrote:<div></div><p>I don't see how you can solo that mob in your screenshot.</p><hr></blockquote>Tactics. It is possible, though not necessarily effective, because it takes forever. And no, you don't need particularly good equipment to do stuff like this. Crafted cobalt and adept 3 spells will fully suffice, probably doable with less. You can also do it standing in melee range, which is sometimes necessary, when fighting in close quarters, without room to kite (like taking down the roaming see-invis djinns in Poet's Palace, you don't want to get any adds in there). But, winning against mobs like this is not a dps issue, more dps would not help very much, maybe make the fight go faster.

Warond

04-05-2006, 07:39 PM

I just think you're an idiot. It's not easy to solo well as a troub, it takes alot of timing and practice for the most part. A well geared and skilled troubador is the most powerful soloing class in the game. Our DPS is right where it should be imo....Look at all of our buffs, what we bring to the table in every group and raid, and we are still able to pump out moderate DPS. If you looked at all the parses of a mage heavy group with a troubador in it, you could see how much DPS alone your aria and PoM are adding to them.<div></div>

Vandileir

04-05-2006, 07:46 PM

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Dalinn wrote:Hello all,I'm getting INCREDIBLY frustrated with my class. I just got my behind handed to me by 2 single up solo mobs 9 levels below me and I've had about enough.1) Our personal DPS is nowhere near where it should be. With everyone and their brother getting critical hits achievement options, all classes besides perhaps Clerics and Guardians are outdamaging us now.2) We have no poison to improve our damage and no defensive stance to offset our lack of personal DPS.3) There is almost no Chain armor with intelligence on it, so I'm forced to use leather or cloth to improve my own damage, in turn making it harder to solo.I can understand different classes have different means of soloing, but not being able to take 2 solo mobs that will soon con grey is downright ridiculous. Please look into our classes, both Troubador and Dirge, and see if there is anything you can do for us. Perhaps adding instruments (Charm slot items?) with a bonus damage % is an idea?/rant</p><p></p><hr><p>What lvl are you? Troubadors come into there own tremendously in the late 60's.</p><p>1) I out DPS my dirge counter parts hands down. You wont see much DPS until you get PoM at 58. Troub DPS is burst damage. You wont see it every battle, and you wont see it teh entire battle but it is there. At 70, I consistantly rip aggro off the MT because I have but 1 evasion skill (2 if you count the bow skill from the wisdom line)</p><p>2) You dont need poison. you have a charm and a mez at 50. Dont use your charmed pet to tank for you, you will die more that way. Charm a caster and use it as DPS, but keep it simple, somthing that you can handle if it breaks off on you for some reason. Also, you have Demoralizing Prosessional. This is a vicious debuff that basically lowers the mobs ability to damage you by 5 levels at Master 1. You get this skill at 52, and that is where you will truly begin to shine.</p><p>3) Xegonite Melodic Armor is all I have to say. You can where it at 62, well well well worth it for a bard. You also get a sick personal buff later on, at adept III it adds 192 INT and 90 AGI. You wont have to stack so heavily on INT later on as this buff will make up for it in most situations.</p><p>As for getting beat by 2 ^ up solo mobs, just wait till 50, when you get mez. It will begin a whole new career of leetness for you.</p><p>If your looking for big DPS numbers, your playing the wrong class. at 70, I'm happy if my big nuke hits fpr 1300. I have seen it land for 1800 on a crit. My biggest hits are the mastery strikes. at 64, you can take the Master II of arias. I recommend it. with capped INT, I can proc up to 500 damage on a spell, and somes PoM and Arias will Proc on the same spell, for an addition of around 800 pts of damage on a spell.</p><p>It gets better. Stick it out, the class will slowly grow into a very dangerous combinations. Dont under estimate your CC later on, it can be key.</p><p>Seran</p></blockquote>

Dali

04-05-2006, 08:27 PM

<div>"I just think you're an idiot."</div><div> </div><div>Hey, thanks for resorting to a non-argument. You ASSUME I do not know tactics. You ASSUME I don't practice and time. I do. I call your 'Idiot' card and raise you a Jester's Cap. I will never feel we're doing appropriate DPS a Necro with a tank pet outdamages even wizards, while they're supposed to be in our damage tier in that situation.</div><div> </div><div>"If you looked at all the parses of a mage heavy group with a troubador in it, you could see how much DPS alone your aria and PoM are adding to them."</div><div> </div><div>Have you read my post? I'm talking about PERSONAL DPS in SOLO SITUATIONS. I know about our great addition to groups.</div>

Cuz

04-05-2006, 09:36 PM

<div></div><p>Yes we get it, 50 + soloing is fine and dandy. It isn't so much so for the levels under 50.</p><p>My best advice to lower level troubs is to check <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=10180" target="_blank">this thread </a>and look at the mobs coercers are charming and do the same. In EL the hag I had charmed was out DPSing me.</p>

Dak

04-05-2006, 09:48 PM

<div></div><div><hr></div><div><p>2) You dont need poison. you have a charm and a mez at 50. Dont use your charmed pet to tank for you, you will die more that way. Charm a caster and use it as DPS, but keep it simple, somthing that you can handle if it breaks off on you for some reason. Also, you have Demoralizing Prosessional. This is a vicious debuff that basically lowers the mobs ability to damage you by 5 levels at Master 1. You get this skill at 52, and that is where you will truly begin to shine.</p><p></p><hr><p> </p><p>Here your party has to becareful as if using tab to target at rang, they have to be careful. Twice now I have shot a guildmates charmed pet due to the quick select targetting it before I realized it had selected his creature and broke his charm. Other than that his charmed creature has assisted the tank very well and been a strong aid to the group and raid we were in. For some reason the quick select does not recognize the charm so I find it slower but more effective to manually select a target when he has a creature charmed. This might be the reason the earlier poster said not to rely on charm, and I can understand that. But this way has worked very good and not that much slower.</p><p>When severely injurered, I will back out of the wele and use my arrows and spells to let my dirge heal or until a healer can get to me with a heal.</p><p> </p></div>

Vandileir

04-05-2006, 10:07 PM

<div></div><blockquote><div><p></p><hr><p>Here your party has to becareful as if using tab to target at rang, they have to be careful. Twice now I have shot a guildmates charmed pet due to the quick select targetting it before I realized it had selected his creature and broke his charm. Other than that his charmed creature has assisted the tank very well and been a strong aid to the group and raid we were in. For some reason the quick select does not recognize the charm so I find it slower but more effective to manually select a target when he has a creature charmed. This might be the reason the earlier poster said not to rely on charm, and I can understand that. But this way has worked very good and not that much slower.</p><p>When severely injurered, I will back out of the wele and use my arrows and spells to let my dirge heal or until a healer can get to me with a heal.</p></div><hr></blockquote><p>I dont use charm for DPS in a group unless I'm screwing around. Charm in groups is for CC. if you get a set of adds, mez one, charm one, and kill them as soon as you can. Aria's is more than enough for my DPS in groups. Parses might not show it, but when someone else procs, its still MY dps.</p>

Vandileir

04-05-2006, 10:15 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dalinn wrote:<div>"I just think you're an idiot."</div><div> </div><div>Hey, thanks for resorting to a non-argument. You ASSUME I do not know tactics. You ASSUME I don't practice and time. I do. I call your 'Idiot' card and raise you a Jester's Cap. I will never feel we're doing appropriate DPS a Necro with a tank pet outdamages even wizards, while they're supposed to be in our damage tier in that situation.</div><div> </div><div>"If you looked at all the parses of a mage heavy group with a troubador in it, you could see how much DPS alone your aria and PoM are adding to them."</div><div> </div><div>Have you read my post? I'm talking about PERSONAL DPS in SOLO SITUATIONS. I know about our great addition to groups.</div><hr></blockquote><p>I hope that wasnt a knock at jesters cap, since that was an awesome addition to our utility, even though it appears to be bugged.</p><p>Before I was refering to DPS in General and not just groups. As I said, you will never throw out big numbers. However, what we lack in DPS we make up for in utility. (Keep in mind, PoM will be a great addition to your personal DPS, and awesome for when you get an add) It is very diffuclt pre-50 to get anything done on a troub. And you will never be able to rip through a bunch of solo mobs with brute force. The idea is to use the tools at your disposal to reduce your down time and keep your self killing at a steady rate. I consider Troubs to be a technical class. You have to play smater, not harder.</p>

Vandileir

04-05-2006, 10:20 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cynnigig wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Frigid2000 wrote:<div></div><p>I don't see how you can solo that mob in your screenshot.</p><hr></blockquote>Tactics. It is possible, though not necessarily effective, because it takes forever. And no, you don't need particularly good equipment to do stuff like this. Crafted cobalt and adept 3 spells will fully suffice, probably doable with less. You can also do it standing in melee range, which is sometimes necessary, when fighting in close quarters, without room to kite (like taking down the roaming see-invis djinns in Poet's Palace, you don't want to get any adds in there). But, winning against mobs like this is not a dps issue, more dps would not help very much, maybe make the fight go faster.<hr></blockquote>This is so true. With the right gear, enough skill, and enough patients, you can solo ANYTHING if you have enough time in the day. It's all about how you play your class. I wouldnt trade my utility for all the DPS in the world.

Jooneau

04-05-2006, 11:07 PM

1) We can do solo HO's twice as much as everyone else now, thanks to our first AP ability. It's an ability that a Bard doesn't really appreciate unless they try soloing another class (like Warden, my alt class) whose HO's refresh at the regular rate.2) Our third INT AP ability gives us poison, but frankly now that I have it, I'm thinking of respecing and getting something else, because poison can interfere with our ability to mez. As far as defensive stances go, we have a song that is a defensive boost as long as we keep it up.3) INT has never been the limiting factor for my ability to solo as a Troubador. Charming the right pet and a good sword and board are what I use to solo. Or sometimes if there's not a good pet to charm around, I will use mez so my long recast timer, high damage CA's and spells can refresh.I can currently solo monsters four levels higher and single-up's one or two levels higher.When grouped, I dual wield for more personal DPS and use charm as crowd control - since I'm not tanking 99% of the time and my charmed pet won't attack anything that doesn't attack me. Group tactics and solo tactics are different for a Troubador.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:14 PM</span></p>

Frigid2000

04-05-2006, 11:28 PM

<div></div><p>Alright. Since everyone keeps blabbing on about using the "right tactics", please, post them for us "idiots" who don't know how to "play our class." </p><p>I'm level 59. Any con- heroic from green to yellow will [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] me anywhere from 10-15 seconds. Charm a mage, I won't do enough damage before I die. Snare is pointless. Mez? As I mentioned before, in combat health/power regen does not seem to be functioning at this point.</p><p>So please, I ask to be enlightened.</p>

Jooneau

04-05-2006, 11:38 PM

In-combat health and power regeneration work. I thought there was a problem with power regeneration until I remembered that the Kian's and Discante lines drain power while active (doh!).Here's what I do for soloing a green-con ^^^ heroic.1) Standard combat until I get down to a dangerously low level of health.2) Back off and charm.3) Rest up and let health and power recover.4) Repeat 1-3.The key is for step 3, it looks like the monster has recovered health and power to full while it's charmed, but actually it hasn't. You'll notice that when you start fighting it again, its health and power are back to the depleted levels they were at when you charmed it.Here's how I soloed Verishu, a green con ^^^ heroic with two thralls.1) Equipped sword and board.2) Charmed Verishu.3) Mezzed the one Verishu wasn't attacking and tanked the other.4) Killed the other thrall when done with the first.5) Used the above tactics to take down Verishu.As for blue to yellow ^^^ Heroics, I think it's similar to the above except that you'll have to charm a lot more often and rest and recover. Hence the "it takes forever and it isn't worth it" caveat on soloing Heroics as a Troubador.While a monster is charmed, if you don't have anything else aggro, you're out of combat so good food and drink will speed up health and power recovery.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:40 PM</span></p>

vinterskugge

04-05-2006, 11:54 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Frigid2000 wrote:<div></div><p>Alright. Since everyone keeps blabbing on about using the "right tactics", please, post them for us "idiots" who don't know how to "play our class." </p><p>I'm level 59. Any con- heroic from green to yellow will [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] me anywhere from 10-15 seconds. Charm a mage, I won't do enough damage before I die. Snare is pointless. Mez? As I mentioned before, in combat health/power regen does not seem to be functioning at this point.</p><p>So please, I ask to be enlightened.</p><hr></blockquote>Snare is pointless? Have you seen the secondary effect on the troub snare? That boosts our dps a ton.</div>

shortfa

04-06-2006, 05:11 AM

<div>Heya dalinn,</div><div> </div><div>Hmmm, it would seem that you are a bard in t6 or t7 because you have the bangle of melodic speed. A bard in those tiers really shouldn't be having so much trouble.</div><div> </div><div>Your first point on our DPS. While not the best, we are still pretty acceptable. Like what scafloc said, its important to make sure the mob's mental resists are properly debuffed first, snare and kian's should suffice before offloading your damage. You should see a significant increase in damage. When soloing or in xp groups, i also use those cute items in KoS that have 10% chance to proc damage on a successful hostile. (Earring from collection quest and Belt from HQ Dracos something something). So currently at 70 my dps is pretty acceptable when i need it to be.</div><div> </div><div>We don't really need poisons i guess. If you really feel a need for it, there is an AA for it in the agility line, and while we have no defensive stance to offset dps, we have a mezz and a charm to hold a mob off while we regen our life and mana. This is something that takes awhile yes, but you really shouldn't be soloing xp on mobs that hit you that hard anyway, its not about how much xp you get per kill but more about how much xp you're getting over time. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So kill greens or blues, something you can kill fast with no downtime and you should do okay solo. I believe that most of the troubs that take heroics on solo usually only do so when they're bored, or when they have a quest to complete and there's no one around. While yes we might take quite awhile to solo a high level heroic, we have the choice to do so solo if we want to (well less choice now that quite a few names and certain mobs are now immune to mezzes). There are many other classes that cannot do the things or kill the mobs that we as troubadors can.</div><div> </div><div>There isn't much chain armor in DoF with intel. Other than the crafted cobalt head, bracers and leggings (barring the fabled drops). You can easily make this up with your personal intel buff (t6 is 179 at M1) (t7 215 or 217) and couple this with intel jewellery. I've not had a problem with intel. In KoS however, there are tonnes of chain pieces with intel on it. Including the crafted xegonite melodic pieces which are relatively easy to obtain. And yes, the cloth and leather might be pretty good reasons why you are having so much trouble soloing. Wear some proper armor, use jewellery and skills to buff up your intel (if you still have trouble locating chain armor with intel). Hold a sword and shield if you have to, and you shouldn't have any problem at all. The mitigation from good chain pieces makes alot of a difference.</div><div> </div><div>Equipment and the level of spells is probably a reason why you might be having trouble soloing. Troubadors will just have to choose the mobs they want to solo. If you're looking to kill heroics, grab a drink and a good book because its going to take awhile. If you're just interested in xp, get your miti up, buff up (i usually solo with Stat buff, personal intel buff, aria, health regen and mana regen because i take blues no arrows, that i can kill at a very steady non-stop pace) and head to town.</div>

IKS_Nels

04-06-2006, 07:10 AM

<div>Got to agree with the OP on the first point our solo Dps with out using PotM is poor, and even guardians can solo as fast as us,</div><div>we are now suffering several problems in T7 that are not making it any better.</div><div> </div><div>1) still no offensive or defensive stance :smileymad: this has some big effects with shield I can barely get to 43% avoidance when 4 out of 7 pieces of armor are legendary and rest fabled, good shield and defense buffs up, Guardians/beserkers get better avoidance then us and they in plate armor and finely mages get better avoidance then us in cloth armor!!! no shield, no parry skill, and worse agi then scouts, its no wonder when we get hit it hurts. And we get hit a lot more when we solo.</div><div> </div><div>2) T6 armor has better mit then T7 and nearly better stats, so we move up a tier and go against mobs that do more damage with less mit on our armor we "Notice" that we take damage far faster and die far more often from a few high hits. This is not a bug, just SoE is just ajusting armours and weapons into the correct tiers, and the upgrades between them has been reduced.</div><div> </div><div>3) Some of our spells are hardly upgrading at all for example I am still using the level 42 haste spell I chose as master II as the level 69 Adept I haste is no better and I am not spending 20+ plat on a master to get an extra 2%, our stat buff line for the group is useless most people are capped and they are barely upgrading, need I go on as 60% of our buffs only upgrade a little and our damage lines are in the same situation were they only just do more damage then previous masters but they get resisted more.</div><div> </div><div>all these factors added together make soloing mobs that little bit harder and longer. Yes skill and good equipment can over come these, but when it goes wrong it hurts.</div><div> </div><div>ill use an example of what happened today was in bonemire Soloing to do writs only had 2 to do 25 mobs to kill in total,</div><div>the mobs are all blue con to me 54^ near by was a 54 monk with good gear he was able to solo 2 mobs to every one of mine and take less damage doing it, from a guy 4 levels lower then me at the time in worse gear and supposabley with a lower Dps tier.</div><div> </div><div>when I see things like this it dose make me think their is defiantly some thing wrong with this class when it comes to soloing we can deal with the mobs very well when things go right! We just cant punch our way out of trouble when they go wrong.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

Warond

04-06-2006, 07:46 AM

How to own as a Troubador:1) Don't suck2) Play like a champ!3) Get good gear4) Don't make posts complaining about Troubador dps and "I'm too newb, I can't solo"5) Learn your class for the love of god!<div></div>

Cuz

04-06-2006, 07:50 AM

<blockquote><hr>Warondom wrote:How to own as a Troubador:1) Don't suck2) Play like a champ!3) Get good gear4) Don't make posts complaining about Troubador dps and "I'm too newb, I can't solo"5) Learn your class for the love of god!<div></div><hr></blockquote>For someone who claims that troubs are the best solo class, you seem to contribute the less to help those who don't think like you.

shortfa

04-06-2006, 10:02 AM

<div></div><div></div><p>nm</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by shortfang on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:55 PM</span></p>

Dali

04-06-2006, 03:14 PM

<p>"I hope that wasnt a knock at jesters cap, since that was an awesome addition to our utility, even though it appears to be bugged."</p><p><strong>That was just some trade humour. If you must know, I was implying the true fool don the right attire.</strong></p><p>"As I said, you will never throw out big numbers."</p><p><strong>I have never, and will never, ask for big numbers. All I want is to be able to outDPS those in the fourth and fifth damage tiers, which I can't do now.</strong></p><p>"Keep in mind, PoM will be a great addition to your personal DPS"</p><p><strong>It is. I'm 67. </strong></p><p>"You have to play smater, not harder."</p><p><strong>I agree, until you get jumped by see invis mobs substantially below your level who pwn you in no time.</strong></p><div></div>

Cynnigig

04-06-2006, 03:24 PM

<div></div><p>I can understand the aggravation towards certain posters, who obviously lack a basic understanding of the troubadour class, but nonetheless express their dissatisfaction most vocally. It bothers me too, when people, who can't play their class, keep perpetuating the myth that troubadours can't solo, have no dps, or whatever. If they haven't learnt to play their class in 60 levels, then the most helpful tip is probably not to learn to play your class, but to delete it and start with an easier, more straight-forward one. Seriously, if you haven't figured out how to play a troubadour by yourself and haven't had the dedication to search the forums for tips, then you probably aren't cut out to be a troubadour.</p><p>In my opinion it takes a certain mindset to play a troubadour well. Reading that someone barges in and tries to kill a heroic melee style and is then disappointed that he only lasts for 10 seconds, is for me just as incomprehensible as a tank complaining that he can't heal. It's like, why would you do such a thing? You have such an abundance of skills and possibilities, why expect to be able to achieve anything if you forego using them?</p>

Dali

04-06-2006, 04:18 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Warondom wrote:How to own as a Troubador:1) Don't suck2) Play like a champ!3) Get good gear4) Don't make posts complaining about Troubador dps and "I'm too newb, I can't solo"5) Learn your class for the love of god!<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>1. I don't. I can hold my own against heroics and solo nameds above my level. I just can't deal with the huge disparity between:</p><p>a) my damage versus orange mobs</p><p>b) damage of solo mobs to whom I con orange on me.</p><p>2. Don't think there's a dignified response to that one.</p><p>3. I grab all I can get.</p><p>4. I'm <strong>not</strong> too newb and Troub DPS <strong>is</strong> sub-par.</p><p>5. Learn to adopt the unassuming stance in life. You'll learn people like you a lot better for being a rational being.</p><p>Message Edited by Dalinn on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:19 AM</span></p>

MrCanoehead

04-06-2006, 04:29 PM

<div></div><p>Well said.</p><p> </p><p>I have played my troubador since day one. I have never had a problem soloing stuff within my level range although I do find it painfully boring and would much rather play with a group any day.</p><p>My advice is if you want ease in soloing you should roll a summoner or a conjuror.</p><p>For the record me and a conjuror buddy were recently taking turn soloing green heroics for the record he had no problem with a solo encounter ^^^ which owned me. The table were turned when there encounter was split into 2 or 3 mobs. A pair of ^^ were much easier for me to handle.</p><p>Read the class forums for other classes and you will see there are similar complaints about every class not being able to do this or that. You can't expect the game designers to make the class fit YOUR needs. Find a more suitable class and stop the whining already.</p><p> </p>

Swisher Repo

04-06-2006, 05:54 PM

<div></div><div></div>I dont know what to say so much for pre-50, basicly I could stat/defensive stack pre-50...and pre-nerf. As far as now, I kill solo's at a high rate of speed. I can kill everything I can land a mez on and have more that 30m of space to work with (any named herioc, that SoE hasnt made immune to mez /cough bonemire mobs).Charm is the best thing out there, find a high hitting dps mob, charm it and tank...and yes learn your class...we are a bag of tricks...figure out the combos, the "oh crap!" abilities/skills. I love playing a Troubador, every nerf I've been disappointed, but you just have to figure out the new tricks, the new combos.Example: I should proably be buffing haste on him since he seems to be an assassin class, but this thing hits hard...debuff you target with all your debuffs (especially your defense debuff, so you charmed mob lands hits like crazy)<img src="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3853/pets9jt.jpg"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Swisher Report on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:55 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Swisher Report on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:57 AM</span></p>

Swisher Repo

04-06-2006, 06:16 PM

But seriously...get the out of here, go reroll or something...if you want dps play a Necro or Wizzie or something, dont dump on yourself and scream broke just becuase you dont get it.<img src="http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3551/brag3yg.jpg"><div></div>

Frigid2000

04-06-2006, 06:34 PM

<div></div><p>lol. Ok, the people that are flaming in this post are a bunch of morons.</p><p>Ok, let's compare the "strat" to soloing a named heroic. Charm, rest, charm, rest, charm, rest, charm, rest. however many idiotic times it takes to do this before it finally dies. What, 20-30 min's?</p><p>I can name a half dozen OTHER classes, supposedly that aren't in the same tier than us and some even lower, that can walk up, kill named, and walk away without even worrying about it.</p><p>Now you can make the argument that we're underpowered or they're overpowered. Something needs to happen.</p>

Crimson Dragon

04-06-2006, 07:05 PM

just a couple things i wanna throw out there.1) i'm new to the troubador thing, but i made one for the ability to buff my group and make them tougher. i don't think it was meant to be much of a soloing class, and i don't expect to be dishing out a lot of damage; making my friends tougher and my enemies weaker is my work. it's like with my brigand, i have two options: wish i had more damage so i could take stuff down faster and spam my combat arts in an effort to do just that, or enjoy the fact that i can rip every shred of mitigation and resists off my oppenents and laugh when the wizard's ice comet hits for 7,500 damage. i prefer the second. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>2) frigid2000 said "Now you can make the argument that we're underpowered or they're overpowered. Something needs to happen." in response: you remember the live update that went up at the time of DoF being released? the one with all the combat changes? yeah, the point of that was to <b>fix</b> class "imbalance". did it work....? i don't feel that it has, but they sure changed some classes a lot.<div></div>

Swisher Repo

04-06-2006, 07:14 PM

<p>lol. Ok, the people that are flaming in this post are a bunch of morons.</p><p><font color="#6633ff">Not morons (if you're refering to me) I'm just trying to make it obivous these complaints hold no ground.</font></p><p>Ok, let's compare the "strat" to soloing a named heroic. Charm, rest, charm, rest, charm, rest, charm, rest. however many idiotic times it takes to do this before it finally dies. What, 20-30 min's?</p><p><font color="#6633ff">I can tell you dont know the "strat" I use anywhere from 8-12 spells/abilities/items/potions it does have some difficulty, but it isnt impossible. 20-30 mins if you just mez+nuke, maybe.</font></p><p>I can name a half dozen OTHER classes, supposedly that aren't in the same tier than us and some even lower, that can walk up, kill named, and walk away without even worrying about it.</p><p>Now you can make the argument that we're underpowered or they're overpowered. Something needs to happen.</p><p><font color="#6633ff">I find it entertaining....and sometimes I just really want to flame you guys. But what I'm saying is just explore your class and test stuff out, figure out your buffs, figure out your skills, figure out the game combat system...see how they interact and how you can effect it...ie learn to play. Its a fun game just a difficult class due to its many different</font> <font color="#6633ff">abilities and skills. In raids if grouped properly your procs from Aria's and PoM will out dps any and every other class on the raid, it just won't show as your dps on the parser, sorry.</font></p><div></div>

Sir Blig

04-06-2006, 07:21 PM

<div>Hmm I think I may need to check charm out again, last time I used it what I charmed got to abuse my health and power regen and was back up to full health before me</div><div> </div><div>Is it not mez, rest, mez, rest, mez, rest, mez, rest 30 min later.</div><div> </div><div>Or mez, rest, mez, rest, mez, rest, resist dead troub.</div><div> </div><div>Or mez, rest, mez, rest, mez, rest, fizzel dead troub.</div><div> </div><div>If relying on mez and fighting for 20-30 min is the only way we can take it down when others just walk over the same thing is</div><div>there not just a little but of a problem?</div><div> </div><div>As for charmed pets,</div><div> </div><div>It is usually charm, hack, slash, broke charm, ahhhhh, if you not dead by the time the charm resets re-charm</div><div>Seems some people have more luck with there spells than others and my examples are from when I had everything up to Adept III or master.</div><div> </div><div>and using both is limited to 3 or more attackers</div><div> </div><div>I can gel with the find a good target to charm, but I ended up choosing my target by how likely it was to break, like those raptors in SS my charms always ran out of time with them, they were cool.</div><div> </div><div>My Troub vote goes to we could do with some tweaking upward.</div><div> </div><div>PS why do we seem to pretty darn well every time the nerf bat pass overhead, could it be because we are bellow par?</div>

Swisher Repo

04-06-2006, 07:31 PM

<div></div>While on I'm on my moronic rant...group yourself with 4 casters ideal raid group...I have had some tell me I increase their personal dps by anywhere from 300-500dps...x4...thats 1200-2000dps.we buff caster skills, making them hit more often....we buff many procs and short term int buffs, making more damage...we debuff mental mitiagation, making all our mental procs/skills hit harder....we debuff Wisdom making casters raid-wide hit harder....we debuff defensive making everyone raid-wide hit more often...we debuff Agi, making all melee raid-wide hit more often(maybe harder dunno if that is right)...we buff power regen making it easier for maintained high dps due to everyone having the power they need to cast over and over and over....I dont mean to sound like I'm flaming but might as well, since i'm a [Removed for Content].<div></div><p>Message Edited by Swisher Report on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:36 AM</span></p>

Dali

04-06-2006, 08:32 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Cynnigig wrote:<div></div><p>I can understand the aggravation towards certain posters, who obviously lack a basic understanding of the troubadour class, but nonetheless express their dissatisfaction most vocally. It bothers me too, when people, who can't play their class, keep perpetuating the myth that troubadours can't solo, have no dps, or whatever. If they haven't learnt to play their class in 60 levels, then the most helpful tip is probably not to learn to play your class, but to delete it and start with an easier, more straight-forward one. Seriously, if you haven't figured out how to play a troubadour by yourself and haven't had the dedication to search the forums for tips, then you probably aren't cut out to be a troubadour.</p><p>In my opinion it takes a certain mindset to play a troubadour well. Reading that someone barges in and tries to kill a heroic melee style and is then disappointed that he only lasts for 10 seconds, is for me just as incomprehensible as a tank complaining that he can't heal. It's like, why would you do such a thing? You have such an abundance of skills and possibilities, why expect to be able to achieve anything if you forego using them?</p><hr></blockquote>I'll assume that wasn't directed at me.</div>

Vandileir

04-06-2006, 08:33 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dalinn wrote:<p>"I hope that wasnt a knock at jesters cap, since that was an awesome addition to our utility, even though it appears to be bugged."</p><p><strong>That was just some trade humour. If you must know, I was implying the true fool don the right attire.</strong></p><p>"As I said, you will never throw out big numbers."</p><p><strong>I have never, and will never, ask for big numbers. All I want is to be able to outDPS those in the fourth and fifth damage tiers, which I can't do now.</strong></p><p>"Keep in mind, PoM will be a great addition to your personal DPS"</p><p><strong>It is. I'm 67. </strong></p><p>"You have to play smater, not harder."</p><p><strong>I agree, until you get jumped by see invis mobs substantially below your level who pwn you in no time.</strong></p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Jesters Caps look awesome, but thats besides the point. Your the fool creating a topic about Bards needing to be fixed, when were far far far from broken. If at 67 you still have an issue doing ANYTHING, roll an alt, this class is not for you.</p><p>Bard DPS is right where it should be. Were not meant for damage, period. get over it. Our job is to effect other players. this is a group oriented class. if you dont like it, roll an alt. this class isnt for you.</p><p>You dont sound like your 67, and its not worth it to me to check.</p><p>Evac, or out run them. your a bard.</p><p> </p>

Cynnigig

04-06-2006, 08:35 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir Blight wrote:<div>If relying on mez and fighting for 20-30 min is the only way we can take it down when others just walk over the same thing is</div><div>there not just a little but of a problem?</div><hr></blockquote><p>We now have two accounts in this thread, that there are other classes, maybe even 10 to 12 other classes, which can easily walk over yellow triple-up heroics. Somehow I must have missed this, or the people I normally play with are very much below par. If this is truly the case, then we shouldn't be talking about the troubadour, but about a serious imbalance in the game, because that is seriously not supposed to be.</p><p>I have always thought of my ability to take on these mobs as a bonus feature, something I am not really supposed to be doing. As such, I could live with the fact, that it was a lengthy and difficult undertaking.</p><p>In any case, please give me a list of these classes, I'd love to see how they go about it. And especially how much faster they can kill a yellow triple-up heroic than I can.</p>

Dali

04-06-2006, 08:41 PM

<div></div><div><p>"Jesters Caps look awesome, but thats besides the point. Your the fool creating a topic about Bards needing to be fixed, when were far far far from broken. If at 67 you still have an issue doing ANYTHING, roll an alt, this class is not for you."</p><p><strong>I never said I had an issue doing anything. Have you tried reading entire posts instead of skimming? Might want to re-read and see if you made any mental leaps you shouldn't have. </strong></p><p><strong>EDIT: just thought I'd add it in for clarity, in case you couldn't deduct it yourself: I don't have issues with any old mob. In fact, it's only solo mobs that rip through me. Let me stress ONLY. Heroics I can take.</strong></p><p>"Bard DPS is right where it should be. Were not meant for damage, period. get over it. Our job is to effect other players. this is a group oriented class. if you dont like it, roll an alt. this class isnt for you."</p><p><strong>Oh, really? Then why are we in the third DPS tier according to... *drumroll* the Devs themselves? *crowd gasps* As I've said before, if you'd bothered to actually read my post, you would have been able to see I was merely asking we do more damage than fighters. Period. Nothing more than what the DPS tiers claim we should do.</strong></p><p>"You dont sound like your 67, and its not worth it to me to check."</p><p><strong>You don't sound like you've encountered puberty yet, but I don't want to see you drop your pants either.</strong></p><p>"Evac, or out run them. your a bard."</p><p><strong>Ever heard of the ridiculous rate at which solo mobs stun? How about the speed at which they run in-combat?</strong></p></div><p>Message Edited by Dalinn on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:44 AM</span></p>

Vandileir

04-06-2006, 10:05 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dalinn wrote:<div></div><div><p>"Jesters Caps look awesome, but thats besides the point. Your the fool creating a topic about Bards needing to be fixed, when were far far far from broken. If at 67 you still have an issue doing ANYTHING, roll an alt, this class is not for you."</p><p><strong>I never said I had an issue doing anything. Have you tried reading entire posts instead of skimming? Might want to re-read and see if you made any mental leaps you shouldn't have. </strong></p><p><strong>EDIT: just thought I'd add it in for clarity, in case you couldn't deduct it yourself: I don't have issues with any old mob. In fact, it's only solo mobs that rip through me. Let me stress ONLY. Heroics I can take.</strong></p><p>"Bard DPS is right where it should be. Were not meant for damage, period. get over it. Our job is to effect other players. this is a group oriented class. if you dont like it, roll an alt. this class isnt for you."</p><p><strong>Oh, really? Then why are we in the third DPS tier according to... *drumroll* the Devs themselves? *crowd gasps* As I've said before, if you'd bothered to actually read my post, you would have been able to see I was merely asking we do more damage than fighters. Period. Nothing more than what the DPS tiers claim we should do.</strong></p><p>"You dont sound like your 67, and its not worth it to me to check."</p><p><strong>You don't sound like you've encountered puberty yet, but I don't want to see you drop your pants either.</strong></p><p>"Evac, or out run them. your a bard."</p><p><strong>Ever heard of the ridiculous rate at which solo mobs stun? How about the speed at which they run in-combat?</strong></p></div><p>Message Edited by Dalinn on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:44 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p><strong>"I just got my behind handed to me by 2 single up solo mobs 9 levels"</strong></p><p>Aparently at lvl 67, you still dont know how to handle an add while soloing. At 67, you shouldnt be blaming anyone but your self. Crying on the forums about a broken class doesnt change that fact.</p><p>In DPS mode, I can out damage, and if not come real close to wizzard/warlock DPS. I'm also either ahead of or right behind the other scouts. However, it is hard to achieve this in solo situations as we must play more defensively. As a bard, we trade DPS for utility. Wizards for example cant make this trade as they are pure dps. sure they can kill solo mobs alot faster than I can, but they also cant take any hits, cant debuff, cant charm or mez. to allow us our maximum dps in a solo situation and still keep all that utility would be UNBALANCED. Which is why are DPS can be very spotty and is based entirely on the situation you are in.</p><p>We are tier 3 DPS when we want to be, or when in the right situation. If you cant put those types of numbers out, you havent built your toon properly or still dont know what your doing at 67.</p><p><strong>"You don't sound like you've encountered puberty yet, but I don't want to see you drop your pants either."</strong></p><p>Ouch. That hurt, really.</p><p><strong>Ever heard of the ridiculous rate at which solo mobs stun? How about the speed at which they run in-combat?</strong></p><p>yes, it happens. However, every other class in the game has to deal with this also. Dont blame your class, blame the game mechanics if you dont like it. As for running off mobs, break the encounter, take off your procing gear and get moving. Everyone runs that slow in combat, and every one faces mobs that move that fast in combat. Again, game mechanics, not the class.</p>

Frigid2000

04-06-2006, 11:40 PM

<div></div><p>Classes I have personally witnessed solo heroic mobs with ease, often green to blue con, without even being put in the yellow:</p><p>Conjuror, Necro, Bruiser, Monk, Paladin (put in yellow or worse, but could heal) wizard and berzerker. Rangers before the "big nerf" could do it, not sure if they could now. I haven't seen any other's capabilities.</p><p>Ever try PvP with a troub? Unless you're higher level than they are or get a jump on them, you're toast. You simply cannot output enough damage to kill them before their superior abilities kill you. Until you get some more useful spells like mez and such.</p><p>Now I'll say it one more time. Other classes are way over the hill, or we are way under it. Pick one. Because it's one or the other.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

Sir Blig

04-07-2006, 12:05 AM

<div>I am not going to go though each class that I have seen do things that it would take me 20-30 min to do.</div><div> </div><div>A couple of the tank class including those poor guardians, some of the mage group and some scouts. Would have made movies if I was interested in being reminded.</div><div> </div><div>But will comment on the - we are T3, are our sister/brother class the Dirge not the same and how much better can they do in combat? How do we compare to the other T3's</div><div> </div><div>If we are supposed to bet Jack of all and there are only 5 tears of damage rating why are rated in the middle, the middle is average! Are we even average in DPS</div><div> </div><div>Yes we can do things but are we doing them as fast as we really should be and how we do in solo is so much based on one spell 'mez!' is that our solo class definer we can mez, sure in groups we can help others out nicely but I am not always in a group and where we are best -> in raid's well I definitely don't raid all the time, maybe an hour or two a day but what about all the other time I play.</div><div> </div><div>Hey my poor mez spell is going to get worn out</div><div>"Our job is to effect other players. this is a group oriented class. if you dont like it, roll an alt. this class isnt for you."</div><div>So we should just slap on buff hit auto follow and go make a cup of coffee? And if we don't like the coffee we should find a class that wont give us time to make coffee.</div><div>I know bards best side is grouping but that does not mean they should not be able to handle themselves better in a fight when they don't have every one else to fight for them.</div><div>As a matter of interest by how much did your solo ability increase the day you made 50 and got mez, if it was by a fair amount then there is a problem.</div><div>If i had one request it woudl be that so removed the troub's mez for a month and then see how many people think we are way under</div>

Vandileir

04-07-2006, 12:38 AM

<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr>Frigid2000 wrote:<div></div><p>Classes I have personally witnessed solo heroic mobs with ease, often green to blue con, without even being put in the yellow:</p><p>Conjuror, Necro, Bruiser, Monk, Paladin (put in yellow or worse, but could heal) wizard and berzerker. Rangers before the "big nerf" could do it, not sure if they could now. I haven't seen any other's capabilities.</p><p>Ever try PvP with a troub? Unless you're higher level than they are or get a jump on them, you're toast. You simply cannot output enough damage to kill them before their superior abilities kill you. Until you get some more useful spells like mez and such.</p><p>Now I'll say it one more time. Other classes are way over the hill, or we are way under it. Pick one. Because it's one or the other.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I have soloed heroics before. Usually green. Especially heroic groups. I've done blues and names a few times when I have been in the mood. It takes to long to really keep me interested, but still, I can do it.</p><p><strong>Ever try PvP with a troub? Unless you're higher level than they are or get a jump on them, you're toast. You simply cannot output enough damage to kill them before their superior abilities kill you. Until you get some more useful spells like mez and such.</strong></p><p>Not on a PVP server, but on Guk, only Brawlers and Rougues are impossible to beat so far. I've come close on a few Monks though.</p><p><strong>Now I'll say it one more time. Other classes are way over the hill, or we are way under it. Pick one. Because it's one or the other.</strong></p><p>You cant judge a class as broken by comparing it to another arch type. Compare us more to Scouts, and are brothers the Dirge's even more.</p></blockquote>

Vandileir

04-07-2006, 12:58 AM

<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr>Sir Blight wrote:<div>I am not going to go though each class that I have seen do things that it would take me 20-30 min to do.</div><div> </div><div>A couple of the tank class including those poor guardians, some of the mage group and some scouts. Would have made movies if I was interested in being reminded.</div><div> </div><div>But will comment on the - we are T3, are our sister/brother class the Dirge not the same and how much better can they do in combat? How do we compare to the other T3's</div><div> </div><div>If we are supposed to bet Jack of all and there are only 5 tears of damage rating why are rated in the middle, the middle is average! Are we even average in DPS</div><div> </div><div>Yes we can do things but are we doing them as fast as we really should be and how we do in solo is so much based on one spell 'mez!' is that our solo class definer we can mez, sure in groups we can help others out nicely but I am not always in a group and where we are best -> in raid's well I definitely don't raid all the time, maybe an hour or two a day but what about all the other time I play.</div><div> </div><div>Hey my poor mez spell is going to get worn out</div><div>"Our job is to effect other players. this is a group oriented class. if you dont like it, roll an alt. this class isnt for you."</div><div>So we should just slap on buff hit auto follow and go make a cup of coffee? And if we don't like the coffee we should find a class that wont give us time to make coffee.</div><div>I know bards best side is grouping but that does not mean they should not be able to handle themselves better in a fight when they don't have every one else to fight for them.</div><div>As a matter of interest by how much did your solo ability increase the day you made 50 and got mez, if it was by a fair amount then there is a problem.</div><div>If i had one request it woudl be that so removed the troub's mez for a month and then see how many people think we are way under</div><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p><strong>But will comment on the - we are T3, are our sister/brother class the Dirge not the same and how much better can they do in combat? How do we compare to the other T3's</strong></p><p>As I leveled my Troub, I grouped many times with a Guildie, a Dirge. Early on he had the egde over me. 50-70 I slowly gained the upper hand and now out damage, out perform, and have better utility than him class. (Taking into account are gear was very similar, except he leaned toward str and I went the int route, embracing the caster side of the Troub)</p><p><strong>is that our solo class definer we can mez</strong></p><p>My mez is to handle adds when I solo, same as it is in groups. My charm does alot more for me solo than the Mez</p><p><strong>sure in groups we can help others out nicely but I am not always in a group and where we are best -> in raid's well I definitely don't raid all the time, maybe an hour or two a day but what about all the other time I play.</strong></p><p>I raid once a week, maybe. If you raid once a day, thats alot of raiding in my opinion. We do bring alot to a caster DPS group, especially aggro management. However, for an MT group, I would much rather have a dirge. Yet in a solo exp group, I would take a troub over a dirge any day simply because they bring a little more utility for small group situations. Not that I would ever turn a dirge away...</p><p><strong>As a matter of interest by how much did your solo ability increase the day you made 50 and got mez, if it was by a fair amount then there is a problem.</strong></p><p>I am not going to say it wasnt substantial, it was. I never had a hard time soloing ever, but the mez let me do so much more, and elminated my fear of adds.</p><p><strong>So we should just slap on buff hit auto follow and go make a cup of coffee? And if we don't like the coffee we should find a class that wont give us time to make coffee.</strong></p><p>Not at all. However I sometimes like having a more passive role if the mood strikes me. And then some times I'm absolutely in the mood to be the center of attention, letting my CC abilities fly and debuffing mobs into submission. Or sometimes I'll go into DPS mode, stacking my INT and letting arias loose with PoM and ripping aggro of the tank no matter what they do. Bards, much like in game, in IRL are absolutely up to you in how you want to customize your play style. If you find it boring, your making it boring.</p><p><strong>If i had one request it woudl be that so removed the troub's mez for a month and then see how many people think we are way under</strong></p><p>This is like asking a Brawler to give up Feign, a Ranger to give up Miricale Arrow, or Rogue to get rid of there group stealth. They could be called class defining. But then you would simply pick one of there other tools and call it class defining. If you took are mez, i would simply rely on charm and it would be called class defining. The class defining trait of a bard is versatility. You make the class what you want it to be, when you want it.</p>

Lazkr

04-07-2006, 02:11 AM

<div></div><div></div><div></div>I dont know whether I am crying so hard I am laughing or if I am laughing so hard I am crying....Yes I wish Troubs as a Scout class had more DPS, our cousins in the Scout family seem to have more than enough.Something to ponder though... with all the song graphics floating around our beautiful Troub bodies, songs that when put up, have you playing a wonderful little mandolin and have you swinging your hips...Songs that when you play have you beaating the drum and setting the tempo, Why oh why would you beleive that you would be a low T2 or mid T3 DPS? I have a 70 Troub, I have fabled gear, I have Masters galore, I have every bit of confidence I can out last many mobs, even to a ^^^ or ^^ in a battle of attrition, but why? whats the reward? solo if you want, but any one that groups with you knows the value of your buffs and debuffs. I do my fair share of duoing and its great, I feel that I can compliment any class and if you understand what the class you are duoing with can do, the effectiveness of a Troub is quite remarkable.In full groups or in a raid, troubs are healers, casters and tanks best freinds, what other class is so versatile? not a one.I have very rarely had a group that was Looking for DPS tell me I wasnt a DPS class, I think that some troubadors may have a self-esteem or identity issue, or just may not see their own personal value. I have to believe that if SOE fixes our DPS, they are sure has H-E Double Hockey Sticks gonna take something away from us. Personally, I would rather continue to play my class as I have for 70 levels than to get a smidge more DPS in solo situations and have to re-learn to play in group and raid situations.I think those that have questions about Troubador DPS need to get in a pick-up raid where AoE's are used. Aria Acclamation M2 (level 64) + Maestro = Warm and Fuzzy Feelings, add in Don't Kill the Messenger Wis Line AA 7.5% chance to Crit and BOOM you have your DPS class.In the immortal words of Andy Dufresne - "Get busy having fun with the best class in game, or get busy re-rolling another toon"Cheers - Slainte (Ghailge for " To Your Health&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Lazician70 Kerra TroubadorClan of ShadowsFaydark / Befallen ServerPS - Almost forgot - Jesters Cap on your self changes Maestro from 90 seconds to 69 (not only a great number) but tell me what caster heavy group isn't gonna love that?4.7.2006 - Guild went back to PPR for some fun... Level 70 Illusionist says to me <b>" What the F**k are you doing? how the Hell(o) are you getting 1600 DPS ?"</b> and popping up consistently in the the raids top 6 damage dealers?Others in the Top 6 - Wizzie, Warlock, Ilusionist, Necromancer and Zerker. I wish I was more adept with parsers and running them and could post for you some of the logs. (if you don't know, PPR is an AoE'ers dreamland)Yes i wish we had defensive stances, yes I wish we had better overall DPS, I yes I wish I could solo an even con ^^ or ^^^ in less than 25 minutes. But it is what it is, yes maybe standing on our soap-box here in the forum will change something in the future or maybe our communal vent will just fall upon deaf ears, either way I will continue to enjoy myself with friends and comrades alike. heck before they fix a class I think they should fix the lotto system. seems that whenever I start a group (majority of time) or am last one invited to a group I can go 50-75 lotto's between wins, this frustrates me more than anything.<p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:13 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:18 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:20 AM</span></p>

eleven

04-07-2006, 02:41 AM

<div></div>"Our job is to effect other players. this is a group oriented class. if you dont like it, roll an alt. this class isnt for you.""Um... last time I looked , almost every classes job, is to effect other players. I mean really , I think the problem I see is that other classes have too much power.I like the skill and power I have, but SOE gave a berk the power to just run though just about anything with in reason , why would they ever want to group unless they feel lonely?OK , now I agree with every negative person here ," well my troub can't do this or that" you know what your right about it , but it was set up that way , unfortunately other classes recieved skills that they should not have recieved, and I'm hoping SOE will fix that. Everyone here who thinks they are the next Einstein , because "they know how to really play the troub class", get over it , if you have a troub over lvl 50 , you know how to play your class, or you bought it on station exchange, so don't be throwing that around like your some super troub player.However , back to my point., I believe SOE has screwed up by giving all the skills that certain classes should only have away to everyone else, and by doing so , they have made some classes ALOT stronger than what they should be.We should be NEEDED and sought after for groups just as much as healers and tanks are needed,and your BSing if your going to tell me that troubs are needed just as much.I have been in too many groups with my alts to know that groups operate just fine without a troub or dirge.However , I always pull a troub or dirge in , just cuz I know what we can do.<div></div><p>Message Edited by eleven22 on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:48 AM</span></p>

Viv

04-07-2006, 07:18 AM

<div></div><div></div><div>Disclaimer: This post is rude, and straight to the point, if you don't want to read it, then go somewhere else.</div><div> </div><div>Sigh, I've only read about, mmm, half the posts on this thread, and that was more then enough for me, personally, I'm quite upset over Dalinn's posts, he's obviously a [Removed for Content].</div><div> </div><div>I'm getting INCREDIBLY frustrated with my class. I just got my behind handed to me by 2 single up solo mobs 9 levels below me and I've had about enough.<strong>I'm getting incredibly frustrated with bandwagon players, did you buy your account? Learn to play the class instead of complaining about it.</strong></div><div> </div><div>1) Our personal DPS is nowhere near where it should be. With everyone and their brother getting critical hits achievement options, all classes besides perhaps Clerics and Guardians are outdamaging us now.<strong>Our personal DPS is right where it should be, I don't do a TON of dps, but I fare better then a lot of the other classes(tanks/healers...), and I'm more then happy with that, because I ALSO increase their dps by at least(don't quote me on this) 20-30%, not to mention their defense and ability to survive longer.</strong></div><div> </div><div>2) We have no poison to improve our damage and no defensive stance to offset our lack of personal DPS.<strong>Improve our damage, and no defensive stance? Ever hear of a shield? Mezz? How about debuffs? Those do all these things, not in the conventional sense, but the end result is the same. </strong></div><div> </div><div>3) There is almost no Chain armor with intelligence on it, so I'm forced to use leather or cloth to improve my own damage, in turn making it harder to solo.<strong>No chain armor with intelligence? Surely now, your upper 60's are you not? I have nearly 400 int self buffed at level 60. I can't even wear T7 gear until level 62! Come on now.</strong></div><div> </div><div> </div><div><strong></strong> </div><div>I apologize for the flame, but people really [Removed for Content] me off when they come to the forums and whine n complain about not being able to play a perfectly balanced class, true, we do have a bug or two, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. </div><div> </div><div><strong></strong> </div><div> </div><p>Quickening Kandenski - Antonia Bayle</p><p> </p><p>Ignorance is bliss, stupidity is inexcusable</p><p>Message Edited by Viven on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 PM</span></p>

Cynnigig

04-07-2006, 12:38 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lazkraf wrote:<div></div>I have to believe that if SOE fixes our DPS, they are sure has H-E Double Hockey Sticks gonna take something away from us. Personally, I would rather continue to play my class as I have for 70 levels than to get a smidge more DPS in solo situations and have to re-learn to play in group and raid situations.<hr></blockquote>Exactly my thoughts.

MrCanoehead

04-07-2006, 06:11 PM

<div></div><p>This class is very enjoyable to play for those of us that like to group/raid. I don't solo much so I can't speak for it's merits vs other classes but I have no problems doing so when necessary.</p><p>After parsing several raids my DPS is usually below the mages and some scouts, on par with other scouts and ahead of most fighters. I believe this is right where it is intended to be.</p><p>Please do not change this class. Those of us that love it love it alot.</p><p>If you want a solo class there are plenty others out there. Try a conjuror. If you still can't solo it's because you suck not because the class is broken.</p><p>Over and out.</p>

Cuz

04-07-2006, 07:10 PM

<div>Are illusionists a support peice in group? Yes, in fact they are very similar to troubs. Did they get something to help them solo? Yes. Are we as bad at soloing as they were? No, but 50+ we do rely on the same tactics as they did.</div><div> </div><div>When they duo they can evaluate the situation, more buffs or pet? When they trio they have the same question to answer. When it gets to 4 group buffs start having a lot more of an impact. A group buff on 2 people is 1/3 as effective as it is on 6. So when you solo, except for 1 buff, your buffs are in effect 1/6 as effective.</div><div> </div><div>I'd like to see a "solo buff" something good at 3 conc slots. It's an obvious choice for soloing, probably a good option for a duo, starts getting iffy at 3, and probably selfish at 4 in a group.</div><div>See choices.</div><div> </div><div>Hey aren't you the guy that really wants mez to be every 14 levels? Yeah. So you want both? No, either the 3 conc fandangle or the mez. Both would be overpowering at lower levels I figure.</div><div> </div><div>What can I say. I like planning, I like trying to be creative. I'd just like to see the troubs be more interesting. Well for me :p</div>

Pins

04-07-2006, 07:16 PM

<blockquote><hr>Frigid2000 wrote:<div></div><p>Classes I have personally witnessed solo heroic mobs with ease, often green to blue con, without even being put in the yellow:</p><p>Conjuror, Necro, Bruiser, Monk, Paladin (put in yellow or worse, but could heal) wizard and berzerker. Rangers before the "big nerf" could do it, not sure if they could now. I haven't seen any other's capabilities.</p><p>Ever try PvP with a troub? Unless you're higher level than they are or get a jump on them, you're toast. You simply cannot output enough damage to kill them before their superior abilities kill you. Until you get some more useful spells like mez and such.</p><p>Now I'll say it one more time. Other classes are way over the hill, or we are way under it. Pick one. Because it's one or the other.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Hrm, I've been leveling up a troubador on Nagafen, it's basically only my 3rd character I've actually made it into the 30s with, 34 right now, my Illusionist was the first, and got a brigand into the low 30s before I gave up on it. But anyway, I find no problems soloing straight con yellows, or single up yellows right now. Most of my abilities are Adept 1, with a few Masters(they're cheap on Nagafen, like 5-20 gold cheap).And for PvPing, you can do MORE than enough damage to kill most people if you're doing the right lines. Yes it's hard to beat a monk, but only because they buff mental resists. However, other than monks, everybody else can be beat down quite easily because most of our abilities do mental damage. Healers are probably the only classes we can't beat, but they can't beat us either.

Kraks_Aforty

04-07-2006, 09:27 PM

Before I got Vyemm's Fang (last night), I was parsing at 550 - 900 dps on every single fight. I imagine that will go up a little. Regardless, I fail to see how our DPS is broken. Use everything at your disposal and you should out DPS everything but Brigands, Conjurors, and Predators with the game in its current state. Mind you, if Wizards and Warlocks were working, you'd get knocked down a little, but for now, this is how I parse out every single night.<div></div>

Dali

04-08-2006, 12:29 PM

<div><strong>I'm getting incredibly frustrated with bandwagon players, did you buy your account? Learn to play the class instead of complaining about it.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div>Yep, for about 15$ a month, since day one. Same as you did, I imagine. I did learn to play the class. I even enjoyed most of LU 13 when it came about.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Our personal DPS is right where it should be, I don't do a TON of dps, but I fare better then a lot of the other classes(tanks/healers...), </strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div>My point is we should be doing more damage than all healers, at least when solo (special solo buff perhaps?). That's how SOE's own DPS tier layout states it should be.</div><div> </div><div><strong>and I'm more then happy with that, because I ALSO increase their dps by at least(don't quote me on this) 20-30%, not to mention their defense and ability to survive longer.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div>Granted, I'm happy with those too. But my post wasn't about our ability to group.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Improve our damage, and no defensive stance? Ever hear of a shield? Mezz? How about debuffs? Those do all these things, not in the conventional sense, but the end result is the same. </strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div>Fighters can wear a shield while in their offensive stance. Shields and offensive stances aren't mutually exclusive. Debuffs help some. Mez can, too.</div><div> </div><div><strong>No chain armor with intelligence? Surely now, your upper 60's are you not? I have nearly 400 int self buffed at level 60. I can't even wear T7 gear until level 62! Come on now.</strong></div><div>None that I come across. Maybe my server doesn't have a lot of that gear, maybe I play at odd times... whatever the cause may be, I've hardly seen any.</div>

Viv

04-08-2006, 02:11 PM

<div></div><div>My point is we should be doing more damage than all healers, at least when solo (special solo buff perhaps?). That's how SOE's own DPS tier layout states it should be.</div><div> </div><div><strong>A healer, out damaging you? I fail to see how thats possible, granted, I run about 300 dps a fight(i'm mostly int and some agil), but I have NEVER seen a healer out dps anything. I think your forgetting to use your skills/spells, or fighting bare fisted? I can't think of any other reason that could happen.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div> </div><div>None that I come across. Maybe my server doesn't have a lot of that gear, maybe I play at odd times... whatever the cause may be, I've hardly seen any.</div><div> </div><div><strong>As for not seeing any int gear? Moonstone, its spendy on my server, but there's a ton of easy quests you can rake in cash with, be stingy, make money, buy GOOD gear. It's out there, take some time to look for it, and when you see it, snag it up quick.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div><strong>What the hell are you trying to solo that you need a defensive stance/more dps for? We have great buffs, good debuffs, and alot of tricks up our sleeves, if you need anymore help, then seriously, get some. I'll even call the guys in white for you, cause your flippin crazy.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div>Quickening Kandenski, (61) Gnomish Troubador</div><div>Antonia Bayle Server</div><div> </div><div>You know what you need to brighten your day? A Troubador! I sing, I dance, I mince knee caps! Come one come all, see the Trouby do it all(for a limited time only).</div><p>Message Edited by Viven on <span class="date_text">04-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:13 AM</span></p>

vinterskugge

04-08-2006, 04:06 PM

<div>Dalinn, can you tell us what you do solo? Say you engage a solo mob, what do actually do in the battle in order to kill it? What buffs do you run?</div>

Wryth

04-08-2006, 07:19 PM

<div>I find soloing doable as a Troub. Granted I'm only lvl 36 (on Venekor), but what I normally do is this.</div><div> </div><div>Find 2 ^ grouped mobs. Charm one, beat down the other. If charm is still holding regen my health/mana because you are now out of combat, if charm breaks reapply and regen. Kill the other mob. Done.</div><div> </div><div>As far as PvP goes, yes we are not massive damage, but we have so many tricks up our sleeves. The very first thing you should do is snare the target, then apply the STR/AGI debuff (this spell is my favorite, it usually makes the player crawl because they become encumbered). Then use your stun when you can and just work your way around the player beating the ever-living you know what out of them. The STR/AGI debuff is a great way to make a player lose their cool. You can almost see the panic on the player's toon. Great fun.</div><div> </div><div>I personally love this class. I have played a Dirge to 35 and a Troub to 36. I would take the Troub anyday over the Dirge. Just my personal opinion though.:smileywink:</div>

britn

04-09-2006, 01:49 AM

Troub dps sucks. Troub soloing sucks. And I have no problem with that. But I just don't feel our buffs are worthwhile compensation, especially in light of what other classes can do for the group.<div></div>

VericSauvari

04-09-2006, 07:01 AM

<div><span><blockquote><blockquote>Dalinn wrote:<p>"I hope that wasnt a knock at jesters cap, since that was an awesome addition to our utility, even though it appears to be bugged."</p><p><strong>That was just some trade humour. If you must know, I was implying the true fool don the right attire.</strong></p><p>"As I said, you will never throw out big numbers."</p><p><strong>I have never, and will never, ask for big numbers. All I want is to be able to outDPS those in the fourth and fifth damage tiers, which I can't do now.</strong></p><p>"Keep in mind, PoM will be a great addition to your personal DPS"</p><p><strong>It is. I'm 67. </strong></p><p>"You have to play smater, not harder."</p><p><strong>I agree, until you get jumped by see invis mobs substantially below your level who pwn you in no time.</strong></p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>i don't know about you guys..but i have no problems out dpsing 4th and 5th damage tiers..only prob i have is with SK's since they have a bug where they crit on everything</p></blockquote></span></div>

Dali

04-10-2006, 04:17 PM

<div>Bah, post got wiped by work puter.</div><div> </div><div>I use:</div><div> </div><div>- Daeli's, T6, Ad3. T7 version waiting (ad3)</div><div>- Aria M2 (T7)</div><div>- Quiron's T6, ad3</div><div>- Bria's T7, ad1</div><div>- Avoidance (not sure which one, definitely T6 Ad3, maybe higher)</div><div> </div><div>Tactics:</div><div> </div><div>- Jester's</div><div>- Precision</div><div>- mental debuff</div><div>- group debuffs</div><div>- other debuffs</div><div>- stun, stifle</div><div>- combat arts & spells</div><div>- when precision runs out, I stun + sidestab / Sinister strike</div><div>- if too tough: stun + mez (+ charm if necessary).</div><div> </div><div>All my T6 spells are Ad3, Most of my T7 spells are still ad1, except for the mental debuff (master1).</div>

Zeral498

04-10-2006, 05:15 PM

<div></div><div>I play a 60 Troubador on Test. As you would imagine, Test doesn't have a very high population, so I've soloed almost all of my levels. Given the right gear, the right skills, the right AA's, and the right tactics, soloing as a Troubador from 1-60 is not a problem. Sure, we can't handle heroics unless we kite them to death, but we can handle most solo mobs fine. This is what I'm capable of soloing as of now at level 60:</div><div> </div><div>64 solo v</div><div>62 solo</div><div>59 solo ^</div><div> </div><div>And everything in between that range. Most of my spells are Adept 3, and my gear is so-so. One piece of cobalt armor, 30.7 rating sword x2. Bits and pieces of other armor that are chain.</div><div> </div><div>As far as I'm concerned, the OP has problems as a level 70? I'll eventually find out if soloing will become more difficult, but I kind of doubt that it will.</div><div> </div><div>The one thing that IS a bit "broken" in our class is the power burning component of some of our skills. (Sandra's, the side attack, Lore's). Why even have the power burning component in PvE when you can kill the mobs faster, soloing or in group? Heck, our class will still play fine if one day the power burning component of our skills disappear. But, since nerfs are not really fun, I'd rather see the power burning component enhanced greatly, or removed altogether and increase the damage of the skills a bit.</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, that's my 2c.</div>