The stone of the Shissar

[Sinect]

<DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>From 'Beyond the Rune' lore book from nek 3 --</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>(The final page contains two sketches of two runes. They appear as follows: 1. the Rune of Ethernere - There is an image of two triangles turned upon each other and interesecting to create a diamond at the center. 2. The Rune of Sunder - There is an image of a swirling line such as a whirlpool would create when viewed overhead or a spiraled serpent. The Rune of Sunder has a hurried note scribbled in blood all over it. "Look to the stone of the Shissar.")</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>----------- Shissar part caught my eye, anyone have info on the Rune of Sunder or understand why the Shissar are mentioned from this book?</FONT></DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sinect wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>From 'Beyond the Rune' lore book from nek 3 --</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>(The final page contains two sketches of two runes. They appear as follows: 1. the Rune of Ethernere - There is an image of two triangles turned upon each other and interesecting to create a diamond at the center. 2. The Rune of Sunder - There is an image of a swirling line such as a whirlpool would create when viewed overhead or a spiraled serpent. The Rune of Sunder has a hurried note scribbled in blood all over it. "Look to the stone of the Shissar.")</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>----------- Shissar part caught my eye, anyone have info on the Rune of Sunder or understand why the Shissar are mentioned from this book?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Trying to figure that out in the temple of the shadowedman post.  Everling mentions that somehow his gift will be our salvation but exactly how is still a mystery imho. 

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>We honestly dont know, and its not likely we ever will anytime soon. One can only assume that the Shissar were powerful enough that they knew what they were doing when they got involved with the Void. The fact that the rune even exists is proof enough that they did.</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>We honestly dont know, and its not likely we ever will anytime soon. One can only assume that the Shissar were powerful enough that they knew what they were doing when they got involved with the Void. The fact that the rune even exists is proof enough that they did.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>One strange assumption that could be possibly made Cusashorn is that the Shissar infact transcended their normal bodies.  Perhaps the Shadowedmen we are seeing are the Shissar in some altered state.  The stone of the Shissar is more of a tablet that tells how they did it and can lead to their ultimate undoing.  Course that's just another paranoid theory of mine. :smileywink:

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Possible, but you'd expect them to retain some semblance of thier physical forms if they were.</DIV>

[ganng]

<P>I think that this is the story of what the shadowed men are/were:</P> <P> </P> <DIV align=justify> <CENTER><B>Remembrances - DyzAz</B></CENTER> <P>This tome bears the title of "Remembrances - DyzAz". When first looking at the text, it appears as if it is written in another language, but after careful examination it most assuredly is written in your native tongue. It's very hard to understand what is being said in this tome. It's possible it was written by a bard that was struck mad (or had one too many glasses of wine). <BR><BR>Log A9-Green: Several more fluctuals were enhanced after the rise of the third sun. I can feel my dizals quiver in alarm. This is definitely out of place. <BR><BR>Log Ce8: The placement of the spindles are out of alignment. This cannot be the case, for I adjusted them earlier between the ninth sun's setting. I am rather disturbed. <BR><BR>Log 99L: GxvveR and Cvxlx are delayed in their daily transference. This is unheard of. I am debating whether or not I should float over to the structure myself. If I catch them careening circles from that spire, they will get no hearth-light before sleep. <BR><BR>Log AA3-Blue: My budded pair concerns me. I have observed them and they appear to be different. Their glow has faded, which is a sign of the Grizzer virus. But Grizzer virus only comes about during the Lain Cycle, which is three cycles from now. <BR><BR>Log Reeg4: The Holy Overlord has quarantined the western house-bowl. My budded pair has become even more sick and it spreads to the other Dyzalar. Their beautiful blue glow is now light-absent, and they no longer recognize me. I fear they are dying. <BR><BR>Log Ff63: I have prayed to all nine of the suns for a blessing, but nothing has changed. My budded pair have now lost their healthy spherical shape. If I get too close, I can feel my glow... weakening. It is as if they are drawing my life into them. They have not even named me as their bud-source for six turns now. <BR><BR>Log 93: I would have never thought it to be possible, but I too have been forced to break the Tymoth Law. My budded pair deceived me into believing they had their round form again. As I was about to spread my glow around them, they changed into limbed horrors and attempted to consume me. I had no choice but to sever their lines. <BR><BR>Log KRV: My simulacrum showed a patch of absent light growing on my upper hemisphere. I have rubbed electrical powder onto that spot, for I do not want the others to know that I have been afflicted. It should not matter, for I see many Dyzalar with light-absent patches these turns. I have even seen the Holy Overlord trying to bandage the limb that is growing from his upper hemisphere. <BR><BR>Log BlueGreenBlue: The Holy Overlord has lifted the quarantine from all house-bowls. We are free to walk upon the ground as we please. It is no longer difficult to approach the others, for we will take the form of the Dyzalar. When they approach, we can offer them the gift of light-absence. <BR><BR>Log 42hg: The true-limbed ones are pleased by our effeciency. The Dyzalar have been deceased. We are the transcended now. All life, all existence, all being. It is all ours to decease. They have told us where to find more existence to consume. We leave this husk behind.</P></DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Possible, but you'd expect them to retain some semblance of thier physical forms if they were.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Unfortunately I never played EQ1 so i'm in the dark here but sometimes a shot in the dark hits its mark. :smileywink:</P> <P>Basically "What If" the Shissar wanted to completely transcend their physical forms.  They created new forms that would be completely superior to their old ones.  However they still retained their knowledge/skills while gaining new ones during the transcendance.</P> <P>However if this is the case then my theory about "Lord Chardith" being the creator or a "Great Soldier of The Void" is shot down.  :smileysad:</P> <P>The story of my character revolves around things experienced 1000 years in the past *EQOA 500 years before EQ1 EQ2 500 years after EQ1 I believe*.  So far I have only found a couple of things that link his experiences and all.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<P><IMG src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/Cusashorn/Shissar.jpg"></P> <P>A race of cobra snake men.</P>

[Kryussius]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Possible, but you'd expect them to retain some semblance of thier physical forms if they were.</div><hr></blockquote>Why?</div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I dont know. You'd just think they'd want to resemble some of thier original physical appearance, thats all.</DIV>

[Sinect]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sinect wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>From 'Beyond the Rune' lore book from nek 3 --</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>(The final page contains two sketches of two runes. They appear as follows: 1. the Rune of Ethernere - There is an image of two triangles turned upon each other and interesecting to create a diamond at the center. 2. The Rune of Sunder - There is an image of a swirling line such as a whirlpool would create when viewed overhead or a spiraled serpent. The Rune of Sunder has a hurried note scribbled in blood all over it. "Look to the stone of the Shissar.")</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>----------- Shissar part caught my eye, anyone have info on the Rune of Sunder or understand why the Shissar are mentioned from this book?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Trying to figure that out in the temple of the shadowedman post.  Everling mentions that somehow his gift will be our salvation but exactly how is still a mystery imho. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ccff33>Yea, this lore is written by Lord Rikatus Everling. Anyone ever heard of the Rune of Sunder before?</FONT></P> <P> </P>

[Kryussius]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I dont know. You'd just think they'd want to resemble some of thier original physical appearance, thats all.</div><hr></blockquote>I dunno.  Most examples in sci-fi / fantasy of beings becoming another higher level of being tend to have them take on whole new forms - usually of some type of energy.On the other hand, coming to a higher level of existence is likely jarring and I can see how some would cling to a familiar form as well.Anyway, was just curious your thoughts behind that.</div>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P><IMG src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/Cusashorn/Shissar.jpg"></P> <P>A race of cobra snake men.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually lookin at that picture i'm starting to see a resemblance.  It's very very minor but I do believe it is there if you look hard enough.</P> <UL> <LI>The shadowedmen have deffinate claws on them which it seems the Shissar do.  Also our Shadowedmen are covered in a dark veil so maybe we can't see their scales.</LI> <LI>Looking at the "Hood" of the Shissar it's possible it became a complete circle protecting a "Weakness" they may have had. </LI> <LI>Looking at the face it looks like an Iksar to a point however if you put "horns" on it then "distort" the face you eventually get a "Shadowed" being. </LI></UL> <P>One thing that I really have no clue about in the EQ world itself is the "Essence of Magic". Basically what is magic itself and how does it differ in nature?  What differs between a necromancers magic *negating the reanimation of the undead* and a warlocks spells of disease/poison? </P> <P>The main reason I ask that is what if the Shissar "created" a new magic which in essence created the void.  Or perhaps the Shissar "tapped into" an ancient magic that lay dormant thus transforming them giving them new abilities?  Sadly at this time all we can do is speculate on the "Origins of the Shadowedmen" and the shadowed beings such as the lamia and nightblood. </P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Those aren't claws. They're 5 digit hands.</DIV>

[TheWays]

<div></div>I believe the stone of the shissar and the rune of sunder are 1 and the same, I also do not believe the stone of the shissar to actually be created by the shissar, but simply the parent name for the first civilization to behold the rune of sunder.  It is said in the journal within Rikantus chambers in Nek 3 that these 2 ancient runes were discovered to be the oldest runes on Norrath and in the possesion of the shissar (they were found in the ruins of the capital city of Chelsith), but not of shissar origin.The stone of the Shissar may be more than the rune of sunder, perhaps a way to use the magic of the rune much the way Rikantus and Valdoartus learned how to use the magic of the Rune of "Ethemere", perhaps even a weaponized version of the rune.  The stone of the Shissar could also just be a clue as to where the shissar found the rune of sunder, or it could just be a recipe on how to bake declicious iksarian flank steaks with cracked sunder seasoning.The point is, the Shissar have as much to do with the Rune of Sunder as Ben Franklin does with electricity.  Just because they discovered it, studied it, experimented with it, and catalogued it does not mean they invented it.As far as the shissar becomming the shadowed men.  Thats a bit far fetched, I understand the connection between the lamias and the dryads, but not everything in the void comes from our mortal plane, and we should try to stretch them so that they do.<div></div>

[Gukkor2]

Hrm...Ethernere is the name of the realm of the dead, iirc, where mortal souls are gathered up and distributed to whichever plane they are to spend their afterlife on.  As I understand it, it's supposed to be a rather unpleasant place, not unlike the Fugue Plain in the Forgotten Realms D&D campaign cosmology.  It seems very likely to me that the beings of the Void have some sort of connection to Ethernere.  Perhaps the Void IS Ethernere, or at least a part of it, or vice versa.  Whichever the case, I do think there's a relation.

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ganng wrote:<BR> <P>I think that this is the story of what the shadowed men are/were:</P> <P> </P> <DIV align=justify> <CENTER><B>Remembrances - DyzAz</B></CENTER> <P>This tome bears the title of "Remembrances - DyzAz". When first looking at the text, it appears as if it is written in another language, but after careful examination it most assuredly is written in your native tongue. It's very hard to understand what is being said in this tome. It's possible it was written by a bard that was struck mad (or had one too many glasses of wine). <BR><BR>Log A9-Green: Several more fluctuals were enhanced after the rise of the third sun. I can feel my dizals quiver in alarm. This is definitely out of place. <BR><BR>Log Ce8: The placement of the spindles are out of alignment. This cannot be the case, for I adjusted them earlier between the ninth sun's setting. I am rather disturbed. <BR><BR>Log 99L: GxvveR and Cvxlx are delayed in their daily transference. This is unheard of. I am debating whether or not I should float over to the structure myself. If I catch them careening circles from that spire, they will get no hearth-light before sleep. <BR><BR>Log AA3-Blue: My budded pair concerns me. I have observed them and they appear to be different. Their glow has faded, which is a sign of the Grizzer virus. But Grizzer virus only comes about during the Lain Cycle, which is three cycles from now. <BR><BR>Log Reeg4: The Holy Overlord has quarantined the western house-bowl. My budded pair has become even more sick and it spreads to the other Dyzalar. Their beautiful blue glow is now light-absent, and they no longer recognize me. I fear they are dying. <BR><BR>Log Ff63: I have prayed to all nine of the suns for a blessing, but nothing has changed. My budded pair have now lost their healthy spherical shape. If I get too close, I can feel my glow... weakening. It is as if they are drawing my life into them. They have not even named me as their bud-source for six turns now. <BR><BR>Log 93: I would have never thought it to be possible, but I too have been forced to break the Tymoth Law. My budded pair deceived me into believing they had their round form again. As I was about to spread my glow around them, they changed into limbed horrors and attempted to consume me. I had no choice but to sever their lines. <BR><BR>Log KRV: My simulacrum showed a patch of absent light growing on my upper hemisphere. I have rubbed electrical powder onto that spot, for I do not want the others to know that I have been afflicted. It should not matter, for I see many Dyzalar with light-absent patches these turns. I have even seen the Holy Overlord trying to bandage the limb that is growing from his upper hemisphere. <BR><BR>Log BlueGreenBlue: The Holy Overlord has lifted the quarantine from all house-bowls. We are free to walk upon the ground as we please. It is no longer difficult to approach the others, for we will take the form of the Dyzalar. When they approach, we can offer them the gift of light-absence. <BR><BR>Log 42hg: The true-limbed ones are pleased by our effeciency. The Dyzalar have been deceased. We are the transcended now. All life, all existence, all being. It is all ours to decease. They have told us where to find more existence to consume. We leave this husk behind.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Wow, that passage is very creepy.  It really tells us so much, and at the same time, so little.<BR></P>

[Sinect]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheWays wrote:<BR> I believe the stone of the shissar and the rune of sunder are 1 and the same, I also do not believe the stone of the shissar to actually be created by the shissar, but simply the parent name for the first civilization to behold the rune of sunder.  It is said in the journal within Rikantus chambers in Nek 3 that these 2 ancient runes were discovered to be the oldest runes on Norrath and in the possesion of the shissar (they were found in the ruins of the capital city of Chelsith), but not of shissar origin.<BR><BR>The stone of the Shissar may be more than the rune of sunder, perhaps a way to use the magic of the rune much the way Rikantus and Valdoartus learned how to use the magic of the Rune of "Ethemere", perhaps even a weaponized version of the rune.  The stone of the Shissar could also just be a clue as to where the shissar found the rune of sunder, or it could just be a recipe on how to bake declicious iksarian flank steaks with cracked sunder seasoning.<BR><BR>The point is, the Shissar have as much to do with the Rune of Sunder as Ben Franklin does with electricity.  Just because they discovered it, studied it, experimented with it, and catalogued it does not mean they invented it.<BR><BR>As far as the shissar becomming the shadowed men.  Thats a bit far fetched, I understand the connection between the lamias and the dryads, but not everything in the void comes from our mortal plane, and we should try to stretch them so that they do.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ccff33>Which journal? I must have missed that</FONT>

[Vyrance]

i just think it means we'll be running into the shissar in one of the future expansions and in their normal forms, not any transcended form.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>But they went Boom when the moon exploded....</DIV>

[Rabid-Othmir]

How do we know they didn't spread out or even fully leave Luclin before everything went to hell?<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

We dont, but as xenophobic and self-centered as they were, I'm not putting off the option that they chose to completely ignore any and all warnings that something might be happening.

[ganng]

<P>The shissar are not the shadowed men as a matter of fact I think the things we call shadowed men are not shadowed men at all...</P> <P> </P> <P>Let me explain, in EQ1 "shadowed men" were invisible humanoids while the lore primer in EQ2 states that they evolved from their previous form to the swirling masses we see today I think it is wrong in this assumption.  In the passage I posted from the remembrances series I feel clearly shows where these impostors we call shadowed men came from additionally the passage refers to the true limed ones.  These true limed ones are in fact the invisible shadowed men we knew from EQ1 and as a matter of fact have returned to our world of EQ2 in the OoB.  As such the things we called shadowed men from the OoLS were these tainted energy orb beings that grew dark, sprouted limbs in their upper hemisphere and search the worlds in a effort to infiltrate and spread the gift of unlight.</P> <P> </P> <P>Asside from this have we discovered much in the OoB that links back into the Everling story?  I only ask because the OoLS plays a large role in the Everling story and if this saga is to continue it would seem logical that the OoB would be a great place for it to continue onto. </P>

[Vyrance]

<div></div>the Shissar fled to Luclin to escape the doom of the Greenmist.  the Shissar could have escaped back to Kunark to avoid the doom of the moon exploding also.  not to mention that the Gods were gone from Norrath during the time the moon exploded, the Shissar could have returned back to Kunark, or elsewhere on Norrath, without fear of the Greenmist coming for them again.so its very possible that they will be seen again.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vyrance on <span class=date_text>12-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:49 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The Shissar would *NEVER* risk anything that could lead to them being exposed to the Greenmist again. That stuff nearly turned thier whole race extinct. It has them so scared that they would never EVER risk moving back to a place where it can get to them. They've become paranoid that the gods are still out to get them. Besides. The gods were absent when the greenmist killed the Ogres....</DIV>

[Vyrance]

the Greenmist retaliated against actions done to what it was protecting, i guess you could say.and you cant really say the shissar would never return back to Norrath.  with the moon exploding, why would they stay and die?  if they wanted to live, and could do something about it, they may have returned to Norrath.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>All I'm saying is that I wouldn't put it past them to choose to ignore any warning signs that something was about to happen.</DIV>

[Sinect]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>All I'm saying is that I wouldn't put it past them to choose to ignore any warning signs that something was about to happen.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I understand what your saying and Im not disagreeing with you. There are tons of possibilities that could lead to different conclusions. Anyone have any info that their entire race was on luclin?

[Kryussius]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>The Shissar would *NEVER* risk anything that could lead to them being exposed to the Greenmist again. That stuff nearly turned thier whole race extinct. It has them so scared that they would never EVER risk moving back to a place where it can get to them. They've become paranoid that the gods are still out to get them. Besides. The gods were absent when the greenmist killed the Ogres....</div><hr></blockquote>Unless, of course, the .. you know ... devs say otherwise.Also, the gods weren't entirely absent.  Their avatars were the ones leading the war, and it was Cazic Thule's hand that released the Greenmist, so he was apparently still lingering around.</div>

[Ama]

<DIV>I went in search of answers today and it only got me to a dead end.  :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Examining the idol it talked about beyond fiends and flesh through a tunnel of death.  I'll have to get the full dialogue but I went searching in the Living Tombs and Silent City but to no avail.  Hopefully I can follow up some other leads that I may have. </DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <DIV>I went in search of answers today and it only got me to a dead end.  :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Examining the idol it talked about beyond fiends and flesh through a tunnel of death.  I'll have to get the full dialogue but I went searching in the Living Tombs and Silent City but to no avail.  Hopefully I can follow up some other leads that I may have. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That idol was telling you that the Nektropos Tribulations zone was in the northeast corner of Nektulos. Nothing more.<BR>

[Glaknuka]

I doubt anything could have scared the Shissar including the wrath of old gods. Half of their race was undead in the first place. With their powerful magics and skill of reanimation it is not hard to imagine that they felt capable of meeting any challenge on the face of Norrath. They may have even thought that the destruction of Luclin was the excuse they needed to leave that horrible temple. They lived in a desert devoid of oxygen. If pride was their main fault I would say they would have attempted to reassert themselves on Norrath, proving that they could survive the explosion while the inferior races were forced to die.<div></div>

[Ozymundas]

For all we know about this stone, it could have just been a stone in the Shissars' possession at one time.  Perhaps they themselves didnt know much about the stone and left it somewhere.  Somewhere where curious seekers could stumble upon it.

[Sarkoris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glaknuka wrote:<BR>I doubt anything could have scared the Shissar including the wrath of old gods. Half of their race was undead in the first place. With their powerful magics and skill of reanimation it is not hard to imagine that they felt capable of meeting any challenge on the face of Norrath. They may have even thought that the destruction of Luclin was the excuse they needed to leave that horrible temple. They lived in a desert devoid of oxygen. If pride was their main fault I would say they would have attempted to reassert themselves on Norrath, proving that they could survive the explosion while the inferior races were forced to die.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No exactly true, they lived in a desert but created the vaccuum themselves. Why. To prevent the Greenmist from returning. Rest assured yes they were cocky but that cockiness is what got them into trouble in the 1st place. At first they worshipped the gods the same as any other, but then their arrogance as they made deals with other beings to gain knowledge foerbidden to them, earned them the wrath of the gods, in particular Cazic Thule . He sent the Greenmist that all but wiped them out, only to have a few escape to Luclin. To say they can cope with any obstacle is a bit far fetched as the records say they tried to shield their cities, but were overwhelmed.</P> <P>Sark.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Yeah that greenmist really scared the crap out of them. It was the turning point in thier race's history where they decided that they would *NEVER EVER* take the risk of it ever happening again.</DIV>

[PassingStranger]

<DIV>The idea of of the shissar being shadow men seems sort of a conclusion based on minimal evidence. It isn't impossible, but I'm not seeing a real reason to believe that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the difference of the EQ1 shadow men and EQ2 shadowed men, I remember reading something in the shadow men L&L book that pointed out they were likely invisible because they couldn't completely establish themselves in Norrath, as opposed to being invisible for stealth reasons, since they made no effort to hide their weapons. It's possible they might just be able to hold themselves in Norrath with more stability. At least that's the impression the book gave me, though it was told from the perspective of someone who was merely postulating about it.</DIV> <DIV>Of course, what confuses this is the fact that there are old school shadow men in the obelisk of blight (the ones with the floating weapons).</DIV> <DIV>I don't think the "rememberances" books are necessarily talking about the shadow men so specifically, though. I got the impression that they are stories about the other worlds they invaded. Though I've not read all of them.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>There are EQ1 style Shadow Men in Obelisk of Blight. No visual appearance other than the weapons they carry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This suggests to me that the normal Shadow Men we see are just stronger versions.</DIV>

[TheWays]

I dunno Cusa, I had only seen owlbears up on Luclin with no apparant means of comming to Norrath, but somehow they made it.... by the hundreds.  While it may be very unlikely that the Shissar would ever return to our surface, we can't totally rule out the possibilty.  I figured you of all people would know that.Back, on topic - the journal I cited in my previous post was in the "bedroom" of Rikantus Everling at the top of the stairs leading to the basement/crypt beneath his living castle.  You can't really miss it, once you enter his room its sitting on a pedastal with glowing whisps comming out of it.  In Nek 1 it was his journal recounting the loss of his sons and the subsequent death of Alana.  And to reaffirm: I firmly believe that the stone of the Shissar is merely named after the first civilization to find and document the rune of Sunder, nothing more.Lemme scour through my log file  (up to 267 megs) and I'll find you the exact text of that book.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<P>The owlbears are easy to explain in theory. They were taken by adventurers, kept in captivity, escaped into the wild and repopulated.</P> <P> </P> <P>The shissar, like I mentioned, got the crap scared out of them by the Greenmist. They say that those who dont learn history are doomed to repeat it. The Shissar learned thier history.</P>

[TheWays]

I am just sceptical about ruling out possibilities, we're in their world now and they can write it however they wish.  How do you think the Shissar would respond to the death of their god/emperor?  And possibly lead back down to rule their kingdom by new rule during this time of cataclysms and unrest.  Just as well they could have all been vaporized during the explosion of Luclin, only the developers will know for sure.  It took an intervention of the gods on cataclysmic proportions to drive them away from their home, who's to say a cataclysmic happening couldn't drive them back.And, again, back on topic - heres the log:(1165791116)[Sun Dec 10 16:51:56 2006] This book appears to have page after page of symbols and glyphs. There is far too much material here for you to research or even decipher.(116579111<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Sun Dec 10 16:51:58 2006] After a while, you finally discover an image that looks quite familiar. The image is a symbol that not only can be found in the book, but also upon the wall in front of you. It is a symbol with two triangles intersecting and forming a diamond in the center. (1165791120)[Sun Dec 10 16:52:00 2006] There is far too much to read, but you do manage to learn a few interesting finds. The symbol represents a dimensional plane of existence far different than the known planes. What is truly odd is that the first instance of this symbol was found upon a Shissar artifact found within the ruins of a place called Chelsith. (1165791122)[Sun Dec 10 16:52:02 2006] The symbol was once called the Rune of Ethernere, but since recent discoveries, the writer has changed the name to something more appropriate, the Rune of Vul. The rune is said to be ancient and there is only one other rune known by the writer that is as old. This other ancient rune is called the Rune of Sunder. Information on this other rune will be kept within the hidden curios vault.Alas, as with most Nek 3 groups, the party disbanded after the witches were destroyed and the masters dropped.<div></div>

[Daarom]

Found this in another Thread<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/80336.jpg">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=22695Last stone in the Second row looks like the Rune <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>thats a Diety symbol</DIV>

[Daarom]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn schrieb:<div>thats a Diety symbol</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ccff00">There is an image of a swirling line such as a whirlpool would create when viewed overhead or a spiraled serpent.<font color="#ffffff">Ohhh Dear Cusashorn which Diety is it? I can recognize the Neriak symbol, and the one what might be Quellious but which one could be that nifty Whirlpool <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></font></div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Daarom am <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>....What?</DIV>

[Trepan]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kryussius wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Possible, but you'd expect them to retain some semblance of thier physical forms if they were.</div><hr></blockquote>Why?</div><hr></blockquote>Supposition:For the exact same reason they had the greenmist set upon them.  Hubris.  Their belief that they are the pinnacle of existance.  Why change perfection?  They're powerful BECAUSE they are Shissar, not because of what they know.   They know because they ARE.  They can because they ARE.  They are The Shissar and because of that, or rather as part of the definition, all other beings are lesser.Jumping around the thread a bit:The swirly symbol - following the threads of threads (not just on this board but the one going on over on the eqlive boards as well) shows that symbol all over the Qeynos Catacombs where the bloodsaber cult is.     <a href="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/csizzo/EQ000038.jpg" target=_blank>http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/csizzo/EQ000038.jpg</a>  shows an example down there.   The supposition is that its Bertox.</div><p>Message Edited by Trepan on <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 AM</span>

[Daarom]

<div><blockquote><hr>Trepan schrieb:<div></div><div></div><div>  The supposition is that its Bertox.</div><hr></blockquote>Ieks!and Bertoxolous is direktly linked to the shadowmen<a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=remembrancesberrox" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=remembrancesberrox</a></div>

[Trepan]

Nay.  Berox / Berrox is the name of the land in which that story takes place and has no links to Bertox.<div></div>

[Daarom]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Trepan schrieb:Nay.  Berox / Berrox is the name of the land in which that story takes place and has no links to Bertox.<div></div><hr></blockquote><a target="_blank" href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=10517">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=10517</a><div>High Priest Ultor Szanvon</div><em>Raid Encounter</em>High Priest Ultor Szanvon is the last of five NPCs you need to kill in a cycle for the Bertoxxulous flag.Spawns following the death of <a target="_blank" href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=10824">Raex Pwodill</a>.Upon his death, <a target="_blank" href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=13006">Tarkil Adan</a> spawns. Hail him for the Bertoxxulous flag....High Priest Ultor and King Adan both entered the crypt and after that ... you can find them in the Plane of Decay one as Bertox guardian one wants revenge</div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Daarom am <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:18 PM</span>

[Trepan]

Correllation does not prove causation.The shadow men are void travellers via the obelisk and as such have touched most every known plane and planet.   There's no proof that the shadow men are linked to Bertox.    If you smuggle yourself aboard a jetliner and hop off in a foreign country and then take a job working for the local government, does the flight crew have a connection with the President of Paraguay?<div></div>

[Daarom]

ohh oki,regarding of this tale:<i>Messages would come from the marketplatz of frightening creatures lurking near the stalls at night. Being described as creatures straight out of nightmares, the good King feared for his people and began sending adventurers to do combat with these horrors. This would continue until the day that Ultor Szanvon would appear before the court, proclaiming he knew the secrets of the obelisk. Ultor explained to King Adan that the answer lay not with magic or gods or stories, but rather with his ancestors. He claimed to know how to speak with the dead and offered to show the King how to do the same. Both intrigued and at his wit's end, the King agreed to listen to this stranger. For then next month, the king would watch as Ultor would speak with the spirits and would reveal their secrets to the ruler. Ultor would rise to the position of Chancellor, both due to his wisdom and also coincidental deaths among the king's advisors. In the end, Ultor told the king that it was time for the regent to learn the answers of increasingly menancing obelisk. Chancellor Ultor advised King Adan that his forefathers, kings of times gone by, would know about the truth of the obelisk. Knowing the answers were close at hand, the King ordered his squires to bring him the oaken box from within his sleeping chambers. Inside held the key to the burial crypts of the noble line of the Adan Kings - King's Rest.</i> you mean that the High Priest of Bertoxxulous has nothing to do with the shadowed man? ok could be a coincidence as well as the book of him is found in the OoLS but ermh I don't think so <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Trepan]

<div><blockquote><hr>Daarom wrote:you mean that the High Priest of Bertoxxulous has nothing to do with the shadowed man? ok could be a coincidence as well as the book of him is found in the OoLS but ermh I don't think so <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>Hehe, we've derailed this thread about 90 degrees.  Lets see if I can address this and point it back on track 8-)The shadow men DO have something to do with the high priest as it seems their presence was used as a catalyst to further the high priest's ends.  Its appearance allowed him to exert some influence on the king and from that, the story of Berrox and the Crypt unfolds.... but the priest did not call them there, they did not come to assist in the destruction of the king, they came for their own and currently unknowable reasons.Hmm.. what other poorly constructed analogy can I come up with here to explain...   Think of them as Kilgore Trout, but with control.   They travel through space/time and take note of what goes on around them, but are not part of the main plot of what is going on around them.  Thus, they may have interacted with the Shissar, or the shissar have knoweldge of them, as Cusa suggests in the 2nd post.   The Shissar are likely the only other race to have obtained the knowledge of how to travel the void and understand the fundamentals of the technology the shadowmen use.<font size="-1"> </font></div>

[Sinect]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trepan wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daarom wrote:<BR><BR>you mean that the High Priest of Bertoxxulous has nothing to do with the shadowed man? ok could be a coincidence as well as the book of him is found in the OoLS but ermh I don't think so <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe, we've derailed this thread about 90 degrees.  Lets see if I can address this and point it back on track 8-)<BR><BR>The shadow men DO have something to do with the high priest as it seems their presence was used as a catalyst to further the high priest's ends.  Its appearance allowed him to exert some influence on the king and from that, the story of Berrox and the Crypt unfolds.... but the priest did not call them there, they did not come to assist in the destruction of the king, they came for their own and currently unknowable reasons.<BR><BR>Hmm.. what other poorly constructed analogy can I come up with here to explain...   Think of them as Kilgore Trout, but with control.   They travel through space/time and take note of what goes on around them, but are not part of the main plot of what is going on around them.  <BR><BR>Thus, they may have interacted with the Shissar, or the shissar have knoweldge of them, as Cusa suggests in the 2nd post.   The Shissar are likely the only other race to have obtained the knowledge of how to travel the void and understand the fundamentals of the technology the shadowmen use.<BR><FONT size=-1></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If that is true, then there might be a possibility we will see them again in the future.</P> <P>Im just trying to put the pieces together</P>

[TheWays]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Trepan wrote:Correllation does not prove causation.The shadow men are void travellers via the obelisk and as such have touched most every known plane and planet.   There's no proof that the shadow men are linked to Bertox.    If you smuggle yourself aboard a jetliner and hop off in a foreign country and then take a job working for the local government, does the flight crew have a connection with the President of Paraguay?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Of course not...but we're not dealing with the ever changing, ever progressing, unplanned real world.  We're dealing with a fictional world hand crafted with skilled design and reasonably thorough execution: every tree, ever npc, every line of text was intentionally placed.  And I find it very interesting that of all the stories for the developers and story writers to include, they chose that one.I find it very presumptious to simply dismiss the correlation between the Plaguebringer and the shadowed men, and don't think you should debate Daaroms theory without something to back it up.  (He/she) has two bullet points going for them in this case: the swirling symbol correlating to Bertox worshippers and the Rememberance book.Only time will tell if this theory has any merit, but things somewhat seem to be comming together in a diluted, shadowy sort of way.  We know the gods are returning for some reason, and we think it may have something to do with the shadowed mens everpresent threat.  Also, it was alluded that there would be 9 gods returning, more to the point 9 prophets of the gods...yet we've only found 8.  Last I checked Bertoxxulous was a diety yet had no allies amongst the pantheon, and more than a few enemies on both sides of the good/evil spectrum.  The perfect dark stallion to play an antagonist.Just my thoughts anyway.</div>

[Gratuitios]

<P>The way I see this,they created the Stone of Shissar made of the Rune of Vul and the other rune to create the Stone of the Shissar. Perhaps the devs intentionally placed these together to create a conversation between the players on why they placed that there or even what it's connected to. The answer is: We don't know. We probably won't know until the devs catch this conversation and start planning the next expansion, which won't be any time soon. As far as we've gotten so far throughout this,we've established multiple theories.</P> <P>1) The Shissar transcended into void-like bodies and are now taking the place of the Shadowed Men from 500 years ago.</P> <P>2) They died on Luclin because of bloated pride.</P> <P>3) They conntracted a disease that made them void-like,partially #1.</P> <P>4) They came onto Norrath again,but have no connection with the shadowed men.</P> <P>5) The shadowed men in Nek Forest,etc, aren't even shadowed men,just voids connected to Ethernere.</P> <P>6) They stayed on Luclin but survived the explosion and are now on Norrath.</P> <P>7) The book 'Remembrances' is merely about the void-like beings taking over the shadowed men name on other worlds or planes.</P> <P><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Some adventurers took owlbears to Nek Forest,so it's possible the Shissar took their members to Norrath.</P> <P>9) That the void shadowed men are somehow connected to Bertoxxulous.</P> <P>10) The High Priest is linked to void shaowed men.</P> <P>11) The High Priest is not linked with void shadowed men or any other shadowed men,but that the void shadowed men came on their own accord.</P> <P>I've picked up my own theory.</P> <P>Mine) That somehow, whether by purpose or accident, the shadowed men from EQ1 that were near Commonlands became tainted by the Obelisk of Lost Souls,and thus visible. However,they found that because of this, they gained a new ability. Transportation. That, or time travel. Or both. As for the owlbears, perhaps they were taken and transported to Nektulos Forest in disguise,perhaps by a soothsayer. The Shissar,I highly doubt they would've come to Norrath once again. However, it is possible a few of them were different,that a few of them decided they weren't the cat's meow. As for the link between Bert and void-men... Bertoxxulous is the God of Famine, Disease, Poison...pretty much pain. How would a swirling void be related to Bertox? As for void-men linked to Ethernere,I wouldn't doubt that. Voids can lead anywhere: death,life, paradise...wherever. Certain void-men could lead to Ethernere,and certain void-men could link to the Plane of Growth.</P> <P>The fact is that we don't know,and we probably won't for a long while. So,while we're waiting, we can sit back,relax,and enjoy the game.</P> <P>That means you.:smileywink:</P>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gratuitios wrote:<BR> <P>The way I see this,they created the Stone of Shissar made of the Rune of Vul and the other rune to create the Stone of the Shissar. Perhaps the devs intentionally placed these together to create a conversation between the players on why they placed that there or even what it's connected to. The answer is: We don't know. We probably won't know until the devs catch this conversation and start planning the next expansion, which won't be any time soon. As far as we've gotten so far throughout this,we've established multiple theories.</P> <P>1) The Shissar transcended into void-like bodies and are now taking the place of the Shadowed Men from 500 years ago.</P> <P>2) They died on Luclin because of bloated pride.</P> <P>3) They conntracted a disease that made them void-like,partially #1.</P> <P>4) They came onto Norrath again,but have no connection with the shadowed men.</P> <P>5) The shadowed men in Nek Forest,etc, aren't even shadowed men,just voids connected to Ethernere.</P> <P>6) They stayed on Luclin but survived the explosion and are now on Norrath.</P> <P>7) The book 'Remembrances' is merely about the void-like beings taking over the shadowed men name on other worlds or planes.</P> <P><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Some adventurers took owlbears to Nek Forest,so it's possible the Shissar took their members to Norrath.</P> <P>9) That the void shadowed men are somehow connected to Bertoxxulous.</P> <P>10) The High Priest is linked to void shaowed men.</P> <P>11) The High Priest is not linked with void shadowed men or any other shadowed men,but that the void shadowed men came on their own accord.</P> <P>I've picked up my own theory.</P> <P>Mine) That somehow, whether by purpose or accident, the shadowed men from EQ1 that were near Commonlands became tainted by the Obelisk of Lost Souls,and thus visible. However,they found that because of this, they gained a new ability. Transportation. That, or time travel. Or both. As for the owlbears, perhaps they were taken and transported to Nektulos Forest in disguise,perhaps by a soothsayer. The Shissar,I highly doubt they would've come to Norrath once again. However, it is possible a few of them were different,that a few of them decided they weren't the cat's meow. As for the link between Bert and void-men... Bertoxxulous is the God of Famine, Disease, Poison...pretty much pain. How would a swirling void be related to Bertox? As for void-men linked to Ethernere,I wouldn't doubt that. Voids can lead anywhere: death,life, paradise...wherever. Certain void-men could lead to Ethernere,and certain void-men could link to the Plane of Growth.</P> <P>The fact is that we don't know,and we probably won't for a long while. So,while we're waiting, we can sit back,relax,and enjoy the game.</P> <P>That means you.:smileywink:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Those are some great ideas Gratuitios.  Keep them coming!<BR>

[Trepan]

<blockquote><hr>TheWays wrote:<div></div><div>I find it very presumptious to simply dismiss the correlation between the Plaguebringer and the shadowed men, and don't think you should debate Daaroms theory without something to back it up.  (He/she) has two bullet points going for them in this case: the swirling symbol correlating to Bertox worshippers and the Rememberance book.</div><hr></blockquote>Please...    I'm not dismissing the correllation, in fact I declared it one.  I'm just making sure the point that the connection presented is circumstantial is stated, and as such cannot be considered proof.  We need more connections to rely on the assumption.  If we're going to build a firm platform to understand the interlinkings of the lore, we need it to be of stone.<div></div>

[Shadowbladez]

Throwing out some random stuff but maybe the stone with the swirl on it represents the greenmist and when it says look to the shissar its just pointing out that the same thing is happening again?The greenmist is back and is after something, whoever it is after wrote on the stone look to the shissar as a clue as to what is happening. Maybe it has nothing to do with the shissar and the person who wrote it was just using them as an example.Or maybe it has everything to do with shissar, who really knows and i just want to find out all this crap about the shadowed men because it has been going on since the obelisk was in game and the suspense is killing me, its been like 1.5 years now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Daarom]

good point ... but the shissar wouldnt get a stone named after their nemesisThe shissar have no presence in eq2 yet so I guess it is a relict stone.They once believed in Cayik Thule well before they were their own gods and CT send the greenmist) they created the gray to protect themself.The Shissar made their own experiments with time and space but a shadowmen does not look like a shissar at allfurthermore I guess the stone of the shissar is a relict from the times when they were on norrath, now were where they before they fled to the moon ... kunark .. well kunark has not been discovered and as far as the stone wasnt on the moon and hit norrath when it exploded I have no more ideas <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I just keep my eyes open<div></div>

[TheWays]

No, Kunark has not been discovered by players, but it has been discovered and investigated.  Rikantus remarks in his journal the studies of the rune of ethemere and the rune of sunder (by himself and Varsoon), and it was also stated in a journal in his room that these runes were plundered from the ruins of Chelsith (the shissar capital) and appear to be the oldest runes known to exist.If they brought back the rune of ethemere, I'm betting they brought something else back as well...we just have to find it.<div></div>

[Gratuitios]

<DIV>Or maybe some guy just named the runes the Stone of the Shissar for the heck of it? :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the subject :smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe,just maybe, somebody had found it after the Shattering and thought it belonged to the Shissar and made his own document on what he thought it was? Of course, another theory is that it's just a trick,that it never belonged to the Shissar in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's just my input.</DIV>