Rodcet Nife still on Norrath?

[Malloc]

<DIV>Rodcet Nife's spaceship is still in N. Qeynos?  Does this mean he never left Norrath?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Heh. Good question. There's never really been any actual lore surrounding Rodcet Nife in the games. He was never mentioned in the Brief History of Norrath like all the other gods were (Bertoxxulous wasn't mentioned either though, but thats beside the point.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still think he's not really a god, but an omnipotent, immortal Alien....</DIV>

[Homeskillet]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Heh. Good question. There's never really been any actual lore surrounding Rodcet Nife in the games. He was never mentioned in the Brief History of Norrath like all the other gods were (Bertoxxulous wasn't mentioned either though, but thats beside the point.)</div> <div> </div> <div>I still think he's not really a god, but an omnipotent, immortal Alien....</div><hr></blockquote>Not quite omnipotent, but powerful and advanced enough that he was indeed percieved to be a god, and was effectively diefied.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<P>It's kind of a joke from the Futurama video game on the PS2. Leela ends up fighting an alien who claimed himself to be a god to exploit a lesser developed alien civilization.</P> <P> </P> <P>"You're right. I'm not a god. I'm just another Omnipotent, Immortal alien who only wanted to influence an underdeveloped culture of people."</P> <P> </P> <P><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Jait]

<P>The Truth is Out There.</P> <P> </P> <P>Kidding aside.  He is a bit of the stereotype.  The grey skinned pumpkin headed alien.  But he's also allied with several of the Gods, which could make for a very interesting story down the road.</P>

[Kyvthuhlu]

According to EQOA, he was a member of a necromantic civilization in the Dead Hills, and later ascended to godhood.Here's hoping that story stays in EQOA :-<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I don't beleive the developers consider most of EQOA canon anyway, since most of it contradicts EQlive.</DIV>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<div></div>To be fair, plenty of EQ 2 contradicts EQ live as well, I often just go to the Vahlar quote:<div><em>Hi folks,</em></div> <div><em></em> </div> <div><em>Like I've said before and you've all basically stated it here, all three are different games, but what remains the same is the basic history -- gods, larger events, and some main characters.</em></div> <div><em></em> </div> <div><em>For example, EQ RPG takes great liberty with parts of the storyline that they make quite granular with unique characters, however, any mention of the regions, gods, etc. pretty much stick to what most of us accept as "truth."</em></div> <div><em></em> </div> <div><em>If you've read any of the books, you'll know what I mean.</em></div> <div><em></em> </div> <div><em>-Vahlar</em></div>I treat them, without fail, as seperate games, and Vahlar has always seemed to agreed with that.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kyvthuhlu wrote:<BR>To be fair, plenty of EQ 2 contradicts EQ live as well, I often just go to the Vahlar quote:<BR><BR> <DIV><EM>Hi folks,</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Like I've said before and you've all basically stated it here, all three are different games, but what remains the same is the basic history -- gods, larger events, and some main characters.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>For example, EQ RPG takes great liberty with parts of the storyline that they make quite granular with unique characters, however, any mention of the regions, gods, etc. pretty much stick to what most of us accept as "truth."</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>If you've read any of the books, you'll know what I mean.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>-Vahlar</EM></DIV><BR>I treat them, without fail, as seperate games, and Vahlar has always agreed with that.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>EQ2 takes place in an alternate universe 500 years in the future. Being in the future alone means it doesn't contradict anything unless its intentional. Being in an alternate timeline gives it reason to be intentional though.

[Kyvthuhlu]

<hr size="2" width="100%">EQ2 takes place in an alternate universe 500 years in the future. Being in the future alone means it doesn't contradict anything unless its intentional. Being in an alternate timeline gives it reason to be intentional though.<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>There are quite a few things I've noticed in EQ2's timeline, even its history that's supposed to predate Planes of Power where the cut off happens, that do contradict, or give liberties to, the original EverQuest story.The Order of Marr's Fist is my favorite to cite personally.In terms of EQlive, we generally just make it a rule not to use EQ 2 lore references to "cite" EQ 1 lore references - because when they are divergent and alternate, both development teams have free reign to adjust their "pasts" as they see fit.  An example of such being also...Nektropos Castle.I don't believe it was ever King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQ 2's history.

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>uhh it doesn't Pre-date the Planes of Power... unless you're talking about one of those events that happened in EQlive after EQ2 came out who's lore states that things were happening before the split. Examples of what I'm talking about is all of the Dragons of Norrath expansion pack and Mayong Mistmoore becomming a god. Those don't apply to EQ2 just because it says they happened before it, though technically weren't released untill after EQ2 did first.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The time split happened on July of 2003 when the first guilds finally conquered the Plane of Time in PoP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And it wasn't King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQ2 because it's Lord Everling's personal domain in EQlive and EQ2. It just doesn't exist as a zone in EQlive, but it's still written into the history.</DIV>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<div></div><hr size="2" width="100%">uhh it doesn't Pre-date the Planes of Power... unless you're talking about one of those events that happened in EQlive after EQ2 came out who's lore states that things were happening before the split. Examples of what I'm talking about is all of the Dragons of Norrath expansion pack and Mayong Mistmoore becomming a god. Those don't apply to EQ2 just because it says they happened before it, though technically weren't released untill after EQ2 did first.<hr size="2" width="100%">I see what you're saying, and I agree, but to press a bit further, I can't stress enough that EverQuest 2 takes liberties with its "past" that simply don't exist in EverQuest's "past".I'm not arguing your vast knowledge of EQ 2, from what I've seen, when it comes to EQ 2 lore, you are the guy to talk to you, you are "Senor In the Know"......but that doesn't make EverQuest 2 "history" a valid source of information for EverQuest 1's history.  They are two totally different teams with two totally different ideas for their own respective games.<hr size="2" width="100%">And it wasn't King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQ2 because it's Lord Everling's personal domain in EQlive and EQ2. It just doesn't exist as a zone in EQlive, but it's still written into the history.<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>Actually, it is King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQlive.  Lord Everling has never been mentioned at any time in EverQuest 1, and yet Nektropos Castle was explained as being King Naythox Thex's personal keep when he needs "time away" from Queen Cristanos.Personally though, I'd rather discuss the lore in its entirety than get locked into a debate about the EQ 1 EQ 2 connection.<p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 PM</span>

[Pyrrhx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't beleive the developers consider most of EQOA canon anyway, since most of it contradicts EQlive.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That doesn't mean that they won't make use of it. </P> <P>For example, the inclusion of Hanif <Springview Healer>, doing exactly what the Springview healers in EQOA did, means they do pull from EQOA lore.  In this case lore relevant to Bertoxxuluous... and if followed relevantly close Rodcet as well. <in EQOA Rodcet and Bert were originally from the same now long dead race; hence no one knows who created these two gods, as it would seem they ascended to godhood much like Zebuxxoruk></P> <P>On an aside; very littly  of the lore from either EQ/EQOA should be cannon for EQ2.  They should only provide general direction.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Pyrrhx]

<P><BR>Silly browser. Double post!!</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Pyrrhx on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:11 AM</span>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<hr size="2" width="100%">On an aside; very littly  of the lore from either EQ/EQOA should be cannon for EQ2.  They should only provide general direction.<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>Agreed completely.

[Iagan the Swart]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pyrrhx wrote:<div></div><p>Springview Healer>, doing exactly what the Springview healers in EQOA did, means they do pull from EQOA lore.  In this case lore relevant to Bertoxxuluous... and if followed relevantly close Rodcet as well. <in EQOA Rodcet and Bert were originally from the same now long dead race; hence no one knows who created these two gods, as it would seem they ascended to godhood much like Zebuxxoruk></p> <p>On an aside; very littly  of the lore from either EQ/EQOA should be cannon for EQ2.  They should only provide general direction.</p> <hr></blockquote>Sorry to hijack this thread, but this makes me wonder about the OOLS.  Previous forum posts have presented evidence that Bertuxxulous (spelling?) might have something to do with the OOLS.  If both Bertox, and Rodcet Nife were made into gods around the same time, I wonder if Rodcet Nife will then have a larger role to play in saving Norath from the void.  I present this merely as someting to ponder.  I never played EQOA or EQ live, and am not familiar with their lore.</div>

[RPZip]

It's not quite that he's directly involved with the OLS... but more that one of the planets where he has had an influence (Berox?) was invaded/attacked by the Shadowed Men and they managed to capture one of their kings. That'd make him [Removed for Content] at the Shadowed Men, not part of their invasion plan to destroy Norrath... and would mean that, at some point, we might have Berty helping us to destroy the invaders from the Void.<div></div>

[Kyvthuhlu]

Was it ever said in game that he's literally from another planet?  Or that that's his "space ship"?

[Fizwi]

Alien, god, or....FISH?!I see no Koalindl fishes under the saucer, sadly.  <div></div>

[Ilucide]

Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!<div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ilucide wrote:Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!<div></div><hr></blockquote>A thread about Rodcet and Bertox and you throw out Tarinax....interesting.  What kind of cookie?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Ilucide]

It was actually more to do with the ensuing discussion about canon vs. non-canon, and really has nothing to do with Rodcet & Bertox. Thread derailment points for me!As far as the cookie goes, it'll have to be the imaginary kind.<div></div>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ilucide wrote:<BR>Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Did Tarinax's history orginate from from an old EQ cell phone game?

[StaAk]

For what it's worth, Tarinax is mentioned in an in-game book, "Destroyer's Folly". To summarize, Tarinax is called a betrayer, the wielder of the Harness, and the controller of the Drakota. He was out to release two dragons, one of fire and one of ice. Whether or not those two are Nagafen and Vox or the other pair that's responsible for Kerafyrm isn't clear. Whether or not Tarinax succeeded in his quest isnt mentioned either. Tarinax was slain by a hero though, which sent his Drakota, free of the Harness's influence, into an uncontrolled frenzy. The Ring of Scale intervened and retook control over the Drakota.I believe that it was after Tarinax's death, while his soul was in the Ethernere, that the denizens of the Obelisk captured his spirit.I remember the thread from way back that mentioned a dragon named Tarinax, or Terrinax, coming from the EverQuest: Hero's Call cell phone game. I have never played that so I can't say for certain. I believe that this is quite possibly the true origin of Tarinax, considering the fact that there are people who are convinced that <i>only</i> EQ1 pre-Plane of Time is the valid history of EQ2 and Ilucide has come completely out of left field to bring him up in reference to this debate. Other Devs have referenced places and events from the other EverQuest games. I have my own views on what should be considered canon but this thread is already derailed enough and I won't elaborate further here.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<P>To wade in on the 'canon' vs. 'non-canon' theme:</P> <P>I believe that when EQ Live was first envisioned and released, the the background lore at that point took a back seat to the nuts and bolts of producing a workable, (and marketable), MMORPG.</P> <P>What the developers came up with, (lore-wise), at the time was more than adequate for the task.  Yet it was only a frame on which to build; in short, it was incomplete and open-ended; and intentionally so.  It allowed room for future developments and expansions.</P> <P>As time progressed, and more expansions were released, some of the back story lines were filled in to explain the lore behind those expansions.  The body of lore began to build.  Players began to ask for more information, and began to speculate on the missing areas within the lore.</P> <P>Development continued apace, following a number of different plot lines.  EQ spin-offs emerged covering different periods of time of Norrath's history, with their own lore to explain their own plot lines.</P> <P>At first, the separation of different games covering different eras was not a particular problem.  After all, it was a different time, and it covered areas of Norrathian lore tha had not been covered in EQ Live.  The developers were, more or less, free to make up their own stories with little thought or concern of whether contardictions were beginning to emerge.</P> <P>Eventually, the amount of lore being generated within EQ Live alone, (not to mention the various other Norrathian based games), reached a point where it became too much to effectively keep track of by those in charge of the story lines.</P> <P>Yet the lore being generated continued to increase as both the expansions and the spin-offs continued.</P> <P>It was fast becoming a 'runaway train'.</P> <P>Since the release of EQ2, and particularly within the last year or so, I have precieved an increased recognition of the problem, and an effort made to try to reconcile at least some of the various lore threads; not only within this particular game itself, but across the spanse of Norrathian history as presented in all it's various forms.</P> <P>I applaud this effort, and I sympathize with those tasked with trying to provide some linkage (if it is at all possible) between one game and the next.</P> <P>I never played EQoA, and have not played EQ Live now for almost two years, so I can not attest to any similar effort of consolidation (at whatever level, even if it is trivial) on the part of those game developers, but I see little efforts here and there on the part of our developers to do so.  This is a very good thing, and is much appreciated.</P> <P>Yet it may be a Gordian Knot in the end, because Norrath does not speak in one voice, and is not likely to ever do so.</P> <P>Still, to the degree that it is possible, I appreciate the efforts of all our developers to weave some of the various threads together into a, (somewhat), more coherrant whole.</P> <P>Thank you again for the depth and richness of the lore of Norrath.  It is this, as much as any other factor, which sets EQ apart from their other MMORPG competitors.</P>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StaAk wrote:<BR><BR>I believe that this is quite possibly the true origin of Tarinax, considering the fact that there are people who are convinced that <I>only</I> EQ1 pre-Plane of Time is the valid history of EQ2 and Ilucide has come completely out of left field to bring him up in reference to this debate. Other Devs have referenced places and events from the other EverQuest games. I have my own views on what should be considered canon but this thread is already derailed enough and I won't elaborate further here.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Drawing on certain characters or stories from these games is one thing; inheriting them wholesale is an entirely different animal.  A big dumb animal :smileytongue:

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>I've learned through the occasional little tidbits I get from Vhalen (maybe Vhalar's cousin?), that a LOT of the lore for the game, concernion places, and events, and such, came from various D&D scenarios they used to play!  One such example would be much of the original Everling story.  Heh, and I know that the god Tholuxe Paells and the lore around him originated from a trip Vhalen and some of the others took to Vegas (Tholuxe Paells is the god of lust, or the "Demi-god of Debauchery")  Sounds like it was a good trip <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>As to EQ lining up with EQ2...lorewise, they have done a WONDERFUL job keeping it all in line...geographically, the zones are pretty messed up.  Not like mountains and stuff being where they weren't before, but more like entire zones rotating 90-180 degrees, or well known zones and landmarks being in places that they weren't before.  A lot of times, it looks like they game designers created the zones and dungeons, and took it to the lore developers and said, "Here you go, make the lore fit!"  And the designers then have to come up with explanations as to why Blackburrow is now Southeast of Qeynos instead of Northeast of Qeynos.  Why the entrance to Neriak (Fallen Gate) can be found almost due West of Freeport (was in the North eastern wall of Nektulos, roughly where Nektropos Castle, Tribulation is), and why (actually, I don't think I've heard anyone ask this one before) the Enachanted Lands, which was supposedly at one time the Misty Thicket (complete with the Wall and Runnyeye) is now WEST of Rivervale, when it used to be East.  As I said, it looks like the game designers layout the zones, and landmarks, and then tell the Lore developers "Deal with it"</P> <P>If you do see contradictions betweeen EQ and EQ2, I'd love to hear them.  Try as I might, none really come to mind.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[TheManInTheBox]

Yes... Zazoo, Mayong, and Lucan were all D&D characters originally.<div></div>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<hr size="2" width="100%">If you do see contradictions betweeen EQ and EQ2, I'd love to hear them.  Try as I might, none really come to mind.<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div><ol><li>Kane Bayle's non-brotherly relation to Antonius Bayle.</li><li>The Order of Marr's Fist, something that exists in EQRPG and EQ 2 alone.</li><li>The Castle of Val'Marr.</li><li>The subterranean Teir'Dal Empire</li><li>The origins of SoulFire</li><li>The various emperors and kings of Neriak.</li><li>Various geographical changes including the enormous N'Mar's Ascent.</li><li>Nektropos Castle <em>not</em> belonging to the Thex family line but belonging to an outsider.</li></ol>(If I'm mistaken in any of these numbers do forgive me, I'm piecing things together as best a level 30 Shadow Knight can).In closing, here's a statement from EQ 1's lore lady:<i></i><div><i>I've had many discussions with the EQII team and we often talk about diversions in our stories and how they make sense and how they differ.</i></div> <div><i> </i></div> <div><i>We like to keep each other informed and support each other's ideas.  There are devs on EQII that have been around since EQ1 launched, so there is plenty of perspective going on for both game storylines.</i></div> <div><i> </i></div> <i>But yes, we do separate in a variety of ways and I'm very much glad we do.  We'd be very restricted in our expansion content and our outlook for the future if we had to follow a path that included a huge time gap and, jeepers, what would happen when we actually met up with the eqII timeline-Vahlar</i>

[Ilucide]

<blockquote><hr>DreamerCloud9 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Ilucide wrote:Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated! <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Did Tarinax's history orginate from from an old EQ cell phone game?<hr></blockquote> Virtual cookie for you!<div></div>

[Vobe]

<DIV>This is sort of on-topic with the original post, asking if Rodcet-nife is still on norrath.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the Far Journey, before it was removed from the game, there was a little girl. She looked like a half-elf, but was very short, and had white hair. During the boat ride, a fire breaks out. Cpt Varlos tells you to kill the goblin and put out the fire. When you kill the goblin, if you look over, you see this little girl conjure up a little rain cloud to put out the fire. She then says "I dont know how I did that".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not remember exactly what her name was, but if you re-arrange the letters in her name, you could spell "Karana", the goddess of rain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never bothered to make a post about it until now, but I have always thought that the Gods have not actualy "left" norrath in EQ2, but that they are actually hiding on the planet as mortals, and this little girl was one of them.</DIV>

[Ranger1017]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kyvthuhlu wrote:<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> If you do see contradictions betweeen EQ and EQ2, I'd love to hear them.  Try as I might, none really come to mind. <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <BR> <OL> <LI>Kane Bayle's non-brotherly relation to Antonius Bayle.</LI> <LI>The Order of Marr's Fist, something that exists in EQRPG and EQ 2 alone.</LI> <LI>The Castle of Val'Marr.</LI> <LI>The subterranean Teir'Dal Empire</LI> <LI>The origins of SoulFire</LI> <LI>The various emperors and kings of Neriak.</LI> <LI>Various geographical changes including the enormous N'Mar's Ascent.</LI> <LI>Nektropos Castle <EM>not</EM> belonging to the Thex family line but belonging to an outsider.</LI></OL>(If I'm mistaken in any of these numbers do forgive me, I'm piecing things together as best a level 30 Shadow Knight can).<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1. Kane Bayle was not Antonius Bayle IV'ths brother, was he? I thought he was his son, or possible nephew. It's been so long, I can't remember for sure, now.</P> <P>2 and 3 are supposedly things that came about during the time gap from EQLive to EQ2, or at least that was the impression that I got. I could be wrong.</P> <P>4 The Teir'Dal always had a massive subterranean empire. Neriak was simply the capital city.</P> <P>6 Naythox Thex was killed, I am fairly certain, before the actual EQLive timeline began, but I could be wrong on that, too.</P> <P>7: N'Mar's Ascent could easily have been the result of the rending, massive earthquakes, abrupt subduction of a previously minor fault line, something like that.<BR></P>

[Ranger1017]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vobe wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is sort of on-topic with the original post, asking if Rodcet-nife is still on norrath.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the Far Journey, before it was removed from the game, there was a little girl. She looked like a half-elf, but was very short, and had white hair. During the boat ride, a fire breaks out. Cpt Varlos tells you to kill the goblin and put out the fire. When you kill the goblin, if you look over, you see this little girl conjure up a little rain cloud to put out the fire. She then says "I dont know how I did that".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not remember exactly what her name was, but if you re-arrange the letters in her name, you could spell "Karana", the goddess of rain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never bothered to make a post about it until now, but I have always thought that the Gods have not actualy "left" norrath in EQ2, but that they are actually hiding on the planet as mortals, and this little girl was one of them.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That's interesting, I remember that, now... </P> <P>Karana was a very distinctly male god, though that doesn't mean he couldn't have a female avatar, or have blessed a female with a small portion of his power somehow.</P> <P>I don't think they are hiding on Norrath as mortals, I think the terms of their deal were 'No contact with the mortals' but that they all did all sorts of meddling before they actually left. (Like the avatars during the battle of defiance and such.)</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ranger1017 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>6 Naythox Thex was killed, I am fairly certain, before the actual EQLive timeline began, but I could be wrong on that, too.</P> <P>7: N'Mar's Ascent could easily have been the result of the rending, massive earthquakes, abrupt subduction of a previously minor fault line, something like that.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Naythox Thex was certainly alive during Eqlive. I met him (to be more precise, was killed by him) during a GM event in Neriak once.</P> <P><BR>N'Mar's Ascent was indeed built after the Rending occured and changed Nektulos Forest. The N'Mar Family of merchants in Neriak funded the construction.</P>

[Iagan the Swart]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>RPZip wrote:It's not quite that he's directly involved with the OLS... but more that one of the planets where he has had an influence (Berox?) was invaded/attacked by the Shadowed Men and they managed to capture one of their kings. That'd make him [Removed for Content] at the Shadowed Men, not part of their invasion plan to destroy Norrath... and would mean that, at some point, we might have Berty helping us to destroy the invaders from the Void.<div></div><hr></blockquote>See <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=12946#M12946" target=_blank>this</a>.If the information in this post is correct, then Bertoxxulous does indeed have something to do with the Obelisk.  It would also imply that Berox is Norath.</div><p>Message Edited by Iagan the Swarthy on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[Pyrrhx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iagan the Swarthy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>See <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=12946#M12946" target=_blank>this</A>.<BR><BR>If the information in this post is correct, then Bertoxxulous does indeed have something to do with the Obelisk.  It would also imply that Berox is Norath.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Iagan the Swarthy on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:04 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That sounds alot like the Dead Hills/Tomb City of Envar area from EQOA.  Would make sense as that's the area we had to got to in order to get to the PoD. <BR>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV> <P></P> <HR> 1. Kane Bayle was not Antonius Bayle IV'ths brother, was he? I thought he was his son, or possible nephew. It's been so long, I can't remember for sure, now. <HR> </DIV> <P>They're brothers in EQlive.</P> <P></P> <HR> 2 and 3 are supposedly things that came about during the time gap from EQLive to EQ2, or at least that was the impression that I got. I could be wrong. <HR> <P>The Order of Marr's Fist is supposed to predate the Knights of Truth, and they were supposed to have inhabitted Castle Val'Marr.</P> <P></P> <HR> 4 The Teir'Dal always had a massive subterranean empire. Neriak was simply the capital city. <HR> <P>This is not, and was not, the case in EQlive.  Neriak is not a "capital", it's their only source of existence for the Teir'Dal monarchy.</P> <P></P> <HR> 6 Naythox Thex was killed, I am fairly certain, before the actual EQLive timeline began, but I could be wrong on that, too. <HR> <P>Nope, quite alive and still being used in story lines.</P> <P></P> <HR> 7: N'Mar's Ascent could easily have been the result of the rending, massive earthquakes, abrupt subduction of a previously minor fault line, something like that.<BR> <HR> <P>The other poster's explanation is fine enough for me.</P>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ilucide wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DreamerCloud9 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ilucide wrote:<BR>Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Did Tarinax's history orginate from from an old EQ cell phone game?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Virtual cookie for you!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I'll take some virtual chocolate and peanut butter chocolate chips on that please!<BR></P>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kyvthuhlu wrote:<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> If you do see contradictions betweeen EQ and EQ2, I'd love to hear them.  Try as I might, none really come to mind. <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <BR> <OL> <LI>Kane Bayle's non-brotherly relation to Antonius Bayle.  <FONT color=#ff0000>I have yet to find anywhere in either EQ or EQ2 that say that Kane was NOT Antonius' brother.  If I remember correctly, I believe they were actually HALF brothers, but brothers nonetheless.  What I am curious to know is who this KYLE Bayle that is mentioned in several places in EQ2 is.  He seems to have more than a few things in common with his ancestor Kane.</FONT></LI> <LI>The Order of Marr's Fist, something that exists in EQRPG and EQ 2 alone.</LI> <LI>The Castle of Val'Marr.  <FONT color=#ff0000>I was under the impression from what little I've heard about the Order of Marr's Fist and the Castle of Val'Marr, that both were created shortly after the Temple of Marr was ousted from Freeport by Lucan.  I could easily be mistaken in this, and suggest making a post, and getting a more direct answer from Vhalen about this Order.</FONT></LI> <LI>The subterranean Teir'Dal Empire <FONT color=#ff0000>The reason you'll never hear about the subterranian empire in the first EQ is because there was no subterranian empire.  The Teir'Dal expansion into the Underfoot did not truly begin until after the the War of the Fay had begun, and most likely, was not really taken seriously until the sealing off of Neriak from the surface.  In a recent post by Vhalen, he mentioned that the Teir'Dal did not really realise that the begeinnings of the Underfoot were quite litterally for them...underfoot.  Some of the caverns were how the halflings kept getting into Neriak.</FONT></LI> <LI>The origins of SoulFire <FONT color=#ff0000>Again, that is because the origins were never mentioned in Everquest.  In your dealings with the Soulfire, you came in mid-story, after the sword had already been trading hands for who knows how long.  EQ2 begins with the Avatar of War having obtained the blade.  If this urks you because it was used in the Pally Epic quest, then realise that there were also thousands of pallies with epics, sometimes game mechanics need to be undone for lore to continue.</FONT></LI> <LI>The various emperors and kings of Neriak.  <FONT color=#ff0000>In the times of Everquest and Everquest 2, there have only been two rulers.  King Naythox Thex, and his Queen Cristianos.  There has never been any mention that they were the first King and Queen of Neriak, however.  In fact, there is MUCH lore to the contrary (and even the PnP did a whole story that said they (or at least two with their names and professions) were, that's not official EQ Cannon, as they took MANY liberties in creating much of their lore, especially the whole Hate story) That being the case, there has most likely been several monarchs before Naythox and Cristianos.</FONT></LI> <LI>Various geographical changes including the enormous N'Mar's Ascent. <FONT color=#ff0000>In my post, I talked how a lot of the geographical oddities bothered me.  A merchant family from Neriak couldn't have built the ramp up the Ascent, if it occured during the Rending, as the Rending started at LEAST 100 years after Neriak was sealed off.</FONT></LI> <LI>Nektropos Castle <EM>not</EM> belonging to the Thex family line but belonging to an outsider. <FONT color=#ff0000>Why would the Thex family own Nektropos Castle when they've had their own mansion in Neriak's Third Gate since EQ.  If you start digging up all the info on Nek Castle, you'll find it was spawned from a DnD game they played, and that, at least in the world of EQ2, though it was at one time built and own by a Teir'Dal nobleman, it was given to Everling as a gift, along with lands around it.  How long ago all this happened is not certain.  This is one of Vhalen's (EQ2, and for a time, EQ1 lore developer) favorite zones/stories/lore/whathaveyou, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it is because he took part in this story when it was DnD.  He has posted a LOT of info about it on these forums, go ahead and search Nektopos Castle, or better yet, Everling and look for posts made by Vhalen</FONT></LI></OL>(If I'm mistaken in any of these numbers do forgive me, I'm piecing things together as best a level 30 Shadow Knight can).<BR><BR>In closing, here's a statement from EQ 1's lore lady:<BR><BR><I><BR></I> <DIV><I>I've had many discussions with the EQII team and we often talk about diversions in our stories and how they make sense and how they differ.</I></DIV> <DIV><I></I> </DIV> <DIV><I>We like to keep each other informed and support each other's ideas.  There are devs on EQII that have been around since EQ1 launched, so there is plenty of perspective going on for both game storylines.</I></DIV> <DIV><I></I> </DIV> <P><I>But yes, we do separate in a variety of ways and I'm very much glad we do.  We'd be very restricted in our expansion content and our outlook for the future if we had to follow a path that included a huge time gap and, jeepers, what would happen when we actually met up with the eqII timeline<BR><BR>-Vahlar<BR></I><BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Hannalynn]

<div><blockquote><hr>Iagan the Swarthy wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>RPZip wrote:It's not quite that he's directly involved with the OLS... but more that one of the planets where he has had an influence (Berox?) was invaded/attacked by the Shadowed Men and they managed to capture one of their kings. That'd make him [Removed for Content] at the Shadowed Men, not part of their invasion plan to destroy Norrath... and would mean that, at some point, we might have Berty helping us to destroy the invaders from the Void.<div></div><hr></blockquote>See <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=12946#M12946" target="_blank">this</a>.If the information in this post is correct, then Bertoxxulous does indeed have something to do with the Obelisk.  It would also imply that Berox is Norath.</div><p>Message Edited by Iagan the Swarthy on <span class="date_text">08-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:04 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I was going to post this if no one else had. I love Bertoxxulous' lore and how he came to be. the history behind it and the creativeness is very beautiful to me. thanks for posting it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When I read it again now it seems to have some relation to OoLS, quite an interesting combination there as well.</div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iagan the Swarthy wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>See <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=12946#M12946" target=_blank>this</A>.<BR><BR>If the information in this post is correct, then Bertoxxulous does indeed have something to do with the Obelisk.  <FONT color=#ff0000>It would also imply that Berox is Norath</FONT>.<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Iagan the Swarthy on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:04 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>Or it may imply that powerful mages from Berrox figured out a way to travel to Norrath in what could be considered "prehistoric" Norrath.  Not disagreeing with you, simply throwing more ideas out there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Iagan the Swart]

While I still think Berox is Norath, I have come up with some new theories.  I concede that Berox might be a different planet.  I know of no lore stating that Norath is the only planet with dragons.   The lore does state that Veeshan would claw the worlds that she claimed.  That could very well mean that dragons exist on other worlds, and that Berox is one such world.  So you and I might both be wrong.  My next theory is that Berox and all the other worlds in the "Remembrances" books are different depictions of Norath.  Now I have no proof of this, and it is exceedingly far fetched, but I will throw it out there.  There are hints as to the timelessness of the Obelisk.  Perhaps these remembrances are a depiction of that.  The denizens of the Obelisk have visited Norath in the past and will visit again in the future. Perhaps there is a cycle of creation and destruction that even extends to the entire Everquest universe.  The Nameless creates the universe out of the Void.  The universe and its pantheon prosper for a period of time, and then the void reclaims it.  All this happens over and over again, and the remembrances serve as the only reminder of what once was, or that which will soon cease to be.I know that I am probably on crack, and I freely admit that I am not a lore master.  I merely find the lore concerning the OoLS and its faction interesting.  Still I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this.<div></div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>Hmmm, very interesting thought!  Also note that the Remembrance has no mention of the dragons whatsoever, but they do both share the same villain, Ultor (surname is the same, as well), and ruling monarch, Adan.  It's all very interesting, and I do not doubt that Vhalen is quite happy that we've made the connection between the Obelisk of Lost Souls, and the Crypt in which Bertoxxulous first made his presence known to Norrath.</P> <P>I almost wonder if the race started out on Norrath, and then, by arcane means, perhaps, fled to Berrox to get away from the Plague and everything that befell their people here!  If they were able to go toe-to-toe with the Dragons, they must have been very powerful!  Sort of like the Shissar fleeing to the moon.  Then Bertoxxulous sent Ultor, sort of his hero, to finish off what he started on Norrath.</P> <P>Also, although this isn't confirmed as part of EQ2's history, in EQ, they went to another world that had been seeded by Veeshan, and met the Dragorn race, and all that stuff.  I am really, really, really hoping all that won't be part of EQ2's history, since from Taelosia on, all that Mata Muram stuff really didn't seem to belong (why go to other worlds to make things interesting when there is so much lore and content in this one?).  This is just my opinion, though.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV> <HR> Kane Bayle's non-brotherly relation to Antonius Bayle.  <FONT color=#ff0000>I have yet to find anywhere in either EQ or EQ2 that say that Kane was NOT Antonius' brother.  If I remember correctly, I believe they were actually HALF brothers, but brothers nonetheless.  What I am curious to know is who this KYLE Bayle that is mentioned in several places in EQ2 is.  He seems to have more than a few things in common with his ancestor Kane.</FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There was a document I read - perhaps it didn't make it into the game - called the Trial of Kane Bayle, that indicated that Kane's parents had come to watch his execution/trial, something difficult for someone to do when their brother is the king.  As well it mentioned a "distant family relation" to Antonius if I am not mistaken, which I may very well be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> <HR> I was under the impression from what little I've heard about the Order of Marr's Fist and the Castle of Val'Marr, that both were created shortly after the Temple of Marr was ousted from Freeport by Lucan.  I could easily be mistaken in this, and suggest making a post, and getting a more direct answer from Vhalen about this Or <HR> </DIV> <P>The Bootstrutter's Quest indicates it predates their ousting.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P> <HR> The reason you'll never hear about the subterranian empire in the first EQ is because there was no subterranian empire.  The Teir'Dal expansion into the Underfoot did not truly begin until after the the War of the Fay had begun, and most likely, was not really taken seriously until the sealing off of Neriak from the surface.  In a recent post by Vhalen, he mentioned that the Teir'Dal did not really realise that the begeinnings of the Underfoot were quite litterally for them...underfoot.  Some of the caverns were how the halflings kept getting into Neriak. <HR> <P>But the dark elves' existence predated Neriak at the very least.  According to the original lore they were originally "deposited into the Underfoot of Norrath", and then, according to NPCs in the old Nektulos Forest, humans previously inhabitted Nektulos before the Dark Elves arrived.</P> <P>Furthermore, this is referenced in the game lore as being prior to their Neriak excursions.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P> <HR> Again, that is because the origins were never mentioned in Everquest.  In your dealings with the Soulfire, you came in mid-story, after the sword had already been trading hands for who knows how long.  EQ2 begins with the Avatar of War having obtained the blade.  If this urks you because it was used in the Pally Epic quest, then realise that there were also thousands of pallies with epics, sometimes game mechanics need to be undone for lore to continue. <HR> <P>No, I'm not irked at all, I'm just pointing out that EQ 2 says that a massive subterranean Teir'Dal Empire once housed the Soulfire - and with no proof of either in EQ 1, it is not consistent.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P> <HR> In the times of Everquest and Everquest 2, there have only been two rulers.  King Naythox Thex, and his Queen Cristianos.  There has never been any mention that they were the first King and Queen of Neriak, however.  In fact, there is MUCH lore to the contrary (and even the PnP did a whole story that said they (or at least two with their names and professions) were, that's not official EQ Cannon, as they took MANY liberties in creating much of their lore, especially the whole Hate story) That being the case, there has most likely been several monarchs before Naythox and Cristianos. <HR> <P>This is not the case.  Even in EQ 1, and EQ 2, there were rulers before, and after, Naythox and Cristanos, they were not the original Thexians.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P> <HR> Why would the Thex family own Nektropos Castle when they've had their own mansion in Neriak's Third Gate since EQ. <HR> <P>This is the official lore of EverQuest 1...Nektropos Castle is King Naythox's personal castle.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kyvthuhlu wrote: <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P> <HR> Why would the Thex family own Nektropos Castle when they've had their own mansion in Neriak's Third Gate since EQ. <HR> <P>This is the official lore of EverQuest 1...Nektropos Castle is King Naythox's personal castle.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Official? There's no mention of Nektropos Castle anywhere in EQlive's lore other than Beta lore, and nothing of that mentions any Dark Elvesm, but rather describes the very premise of which Nektulos Castle exists now.

[Kyvthuhlu]

<P>You are quite mistaken my friend.</P> <P>Firstly, the story line window:</P> <P>Shadows of Nektulos<BR><BR>From the saddle of her unholy steed, Lanys T`Vyl, the child of Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, surveyed the trolls as they marched through Nektulos Forest with all of their belongings and wares from Neriak, the dark elf city they called home for a time, to the city of Grobb in the Innothule Swamp. The frogloks had finally lost their foothold in Grobb and now the smelly, foul race of trolls had their home back.<BR><BR>A crooked grin slightly pinched Lanys' dark, becoming features. While Lanys saw no need to get involved in the skirmish between froglok and troll, she was pleased that the frogloks of Mithaniel Marr and their foolish, unwavering faith in their god of truth and valor had been humbled.  Once again, she thought, the frogloks felt Innoruuk's hand of Hate squeeze their slimy throats.  The darkened frogloks in the Rathe Mountains coupled with the trolls' return to Grobb further spread evil into Antonica. It was time for the Dark Reign to further spread its fingers of evil over the continent.<BR><BR>Lanys was anxious to put into practice the magic she had learned from Venril Sathir -- the Curse of the Bound.  The curse was so powerful it tainted the ancient dragons of Norrath and Lanys believed the curse could bring an end to Firiona Vie, a half-mortal like herself, and the Chosen of Tunare, the god of nature.  With a few alterations in the incantations and reagents of the Curse of the Bound, Lanys believed she could not only ruin Firiona, but also enslave her.  Some experimentation was in order and she had a plan in mind. <BR><BR>She kicked her steed into motion and made haste through the forest, making a cursory survey of the lands and then turned to Neriak where dark fates would soon unfurl by her ebony hand.<BR><BR>"Bow to me, Cristanos," Lanys hissed to Queen Cristanos Thex as she brushed her silvery mane in her chambers. Cristanos did not see Lanys enter, but was in no way surprised to see her standing in her doorway.  <BR><BR>"Great Mistress Lanys. What brings you to Neriak this day?" Cristanos asked as she crouched on one knee with her eyes cast at Lanys' feet.<BR><BR>"You must serve me now in a way that may indeed please you.  You will provide a subject that is strong in will and skill.  I need a suitable sacrifice that will aid the greater good of the Prince of Hate's children in Norrath," Lanys said nonchalantly as her eyes grazed over the ancient tomes and artifacts Cristanos kept in a bookshelf. She picked a tome of arcane magic from the shelf, the Velui D'Xon Exium, an ageless work that contained the origins and requirements of dark elven necromantic magic.  She opened it and deftly turned the pages with her long ebony fingernails.<BR><BR>"I have a potion you must deliver to this sacrifice. No suspicion must be raised as the heart of the sacrifice must not be stressed and the mind not clouded by fear. Send prayer to me when you have completed this task and I shall come to gather the sacrifice.  I must have your best necromancers at my disposal also," Lanys said matter-of-factly as she put down the tome and took an intricate obsidian bottle adorned with runes from her wrist satchel.  Cristanos immediately recognized the language as one of Sebilisian origin.  <BR><BR>"Do not disappoint me," Lanys said.<BR><BR>"Your will be done, Mistress," Cristanos said, remaining on one knee. "The Dead will serve you well once more."<BR><BR>"Be quick about it. When we see this done, we will have in our hands the one thing that may bring all of the embracers of light to their knees," Lanys said, revealing a wicked smile with teeth that nearly glowed against her dark skin.<BR><BR> As the bright face of the Luclin moon glared down on Norrath that eve, Queen Cristanos sent one of her handmaidens from the Lodge of the Dead to request an audience with her husband, King Naythox Thex, in <STRONG>Nektropos Castle</STRONG>.  It had been a long while since they'd spoken. In fact, the last time they parleyed was shortly after Lanys had beaten and battered the king and dragged him to the queen's feet to make a point -- that she was to have Neriak's full support in her war against Firiona Vie and Norrath's Keepers.  Cristanos was certain that even as the king lay broken at her feet that day, he could feel her satisfaction and pleasure at seeing him in such a state.<BR><BR>A young wisp of a Teir'Dal page returned late that night asking to speak with Cristanos personally as he had brought news from the king.  Upon entering, the page announced that Queen Cristanos was "permitted to see the king."  <BR><BR>Cristanos froze when she heard the words fall from the page's mouth.  In her wizened heart, she knew Naythox was goading her, treating her like a commoner.  <BR><BR>Fine, she mused, she could play this game just as easily and perhaps with more flare.  She eyed the page and smiled, biting her bottom lip ever so slightly, bringing a devious bent to her otherwise pleasant expression.<BR><BR>She blinked her eyes slowly and began to whisper under her breath, her hands making practiced and elegant movements as they danced under the light of the lazy flames that formed over them.  The page was mesmerized and hopeful he was about to receive a rare reward. <BR><BR>Cristanos stared deep into the eyes of the page and laughed as her arms extended gracefully in his direction.  The flames slid from her forearms and hands like a snake would shed skin and they licked the floor as they sought out the page. The flames were not hot to the touch . . . at first.  He watched in wonder as his body became bathed in the orange light of the flames.  They were beautiful and alive.<BR><BR>Then he screamed.  The flames sought out the marrow of the page's bones and seeped beneath his skin without extinguishing. In an instant, the young dark elf could feel every bone in his body ignite with fire, his flesh burning from the inside out.<BR><BR>A bewildered look melted across the page's face.  And in mere moments, a smoking pile of ash lay on the ground where the dutiful page once stood.<BR><BR>"Vuzea, come to me," Cristanos called to her handmaiden. "Sweep up this mess of ashes and put it in a satchel. Dress a lowly servant appropriately and request to speak to the king personally with a message from me.  Simply tell him, 'We received your page's message and the queen will attend within the hour.' And make sure the satchel is handed over at that time."<BR><BR>Vuzea K'Myl recognized what had happened as soon as she entered the room.  The unmistakable scent of burnt bone and flesh flooded the air -- not entirely unpleasant to the Teir'Dal. And the page she admitted to the room was, of course, no longer there. <BR><BR>Cristanos tolerated Vuzea, a highly intelligent wizard, and found her useful, though she did not approve of her arts.  But Vuzea was always a willing and respectful handmaiden.  <BR><BR>As for Vuzea, she delighted in Cristanos' utterly evil nature and happily took on all of the deceitful and deviant tasks her queen offered, including this one. Cristanos had some additional orders for Vuzea which she quietly explained as she handed the wizard a small, decorated vial out of a small curio cabinet.<BR><BR>The queen always made a point to be especially alluring when she visited her husband.  She knew she was still the most beautiful and most terrifying female Teir'Dal in Norrath -- qualities her husband once admired. And while he hated her more than ever, her intuition told her that he desired her equally.<BR><BR>She walked in the king's throne room and noted that his expression did not change, though his eyes washed over her like a waterfall. She saw a glint of approval in them.<BR><BR>"You are quite a loathsome creature, my queen. Something I used to take great delight in. Now it is somewhat of an inconvenience," The king said from his throne, flanked by four guards who stood uneasily, ready to act.  Cristanos assumed they'd been told to be wary of her actions.<BR><BR>"You have turned to ash the very son of Vyeer Yi`Traq, the warrior you delivered to Lanys some months ago. I chose to employ him as a page hoping his lineage would be a benefit to me and now you've all but destroyed that family," Naythox said wearily. "Have you no wisdom in the art of political subtlety? This family was at the forefront of the Indigo Brotherhood and they will be none too pleased."<BR><BR>"The same question could be asked of you, my husband. I do wonder what might be said and done in other kingdoms where a lauded queen is treated with the same disregard and disrespect as you have shown me," Cristanos stated blatantly. "Regardless, what's done is done. Let us have a drink and discuss an urgent matter."<BR><BR>Naythox nodded at two attendants that stood by the door to the king's throne room and both of them left, one of them quickly glancing at Cristanos.<BR><BR>The king stood and walked toward his private dining room in a small but ornate alcove behind his throne.  His guards aligned and began to follow.<BR><BR>"Hold," Cristanos said, raising her right hand.  "You may not enter.  What I must discuss with the king is for his ears alone."<BR><BR>Naythox continued to walk with his back to Cristanos and simply nodded.  One guard looked at Cristanos with some suspicion and she smiled back at him, raising an eyebrow, denoting her victory in the matter.<BR><BR>Once inside, the queen took a seat across from her husband at a rectangular ashen table, its edge carved with the runes of the Teir'Dal language. Around the table, the runes repeated, "The Cauldron Binds Us. Hate Above All." <BR><BR>"What is the matter you've come to discuss?" the king asked with remarked disinterest. <BR><BR>"Lanys visited me earlier today.  She once again demands the assistance of the Teir'Dal. I agreed as there is no other choice," the queen said smoothly. "As distasteful as this is, she did promise us one thing . . . that we will overcome Firiona and her kind."<BR><BR>"The obsession with the high elf is confounding. We should have greater goals. Set our sights on claiming all of these lands as our father would wish it, not fall behind the failings and preoccupations of his pestering child," Naythox said. "But, as it is, we will aid her."<BR><BR>Cristanos smiled as the attendants entered the room and set glasses down at the table, filling them both with wine.<BR><BR>"Hate above all, my love," the queen said.<BR><BR>"Hate above all," the king said as he drank his wine.<BR><BR>The king saw Cristanos pause and look at him expectantly.  In that moment, he knew it was too late to thwart whatever grim design Cristanos had artfully painted and seemed resigned to accept his fate, whatever it might be.  His face and body calmly went limp and he appeared to be asleep, right then and there.<BR><BR>"Vuzea," the queen whispered. "Let us go, now!"<BR><BR>Vuzea, dressed as a king's attendant, walked in the room and took a small gray stone, a portal fragment, out of a pocket in her tunic.  She spoke quietly and closed her eyes and the air around her hands became hazy and shimmered, just as it does above magma in the Lavastorm Mountains.  It was not long before Vuzea completed her spell and a large arch of undulating blue light stood before them.<BR><BR>"Grab him and take him through," Cristanos urged, pointing at Naythox while looking beyond the room to be certain the guards maintained their posts.<BR><BR>Vuzea grabbed the king's arm and tried not to grunt aloud as she heaved him toward the soft glowing archway. As soon as she and the king's arm were touched by the shimmering light, they both disappeared.  Cristanos quickly followed into the portal.<BR><BR>Cristanos, Vuzea and the unconscious king were teleported directly into the queen's chambers in the Lodge of the Dead.  <BR><BR>"Just leave him there and leave me," Cristanos said.  She readied herself to send prayer to Lanys when she heard a cackle and the sharp slap of clapping hands behind her.<BR><BR>"Ha ha! I should have guessed.  I really should have.  I'm so very pleased at your choice for a sacrifice, queen. I must admit that I underestimated your devious and vengeful nature," Lanys said.  <BR><BR>Cristanos smiled and bowed on one knee before Lanys.<BR><BR>"Welcome, mistress.  I have done as you asked," Cristanos said.<BR><BR>"Indeed you have. And now we must continue. The king must be moved to the forest at once so our work may begin. It is too dangerous to undertake this experiment in the city. I have selected the finest necromancers of the Dead to help in the creation of this curse," Lanys said, leaning over and tracing a finger down Naythox's cheek. "He will make a fine subject. A remarkable slave."<BR><BR>Cristanos was unsure which curse Lanys referred to, but knew she'd find out soon enough.  <BR><BR>The very next morning, a royal entourage of Teir'Dal traveled to Nektulos Forest, their king carried on an ornate slab of obsidian. He was placed upon a great stump while the necromancers began to chant around him in a language onlookers were not familiar with.<BR><BR>News of the king's illness rushed like a river through the city and in its undercurrents were whispers that the king was poisoned and the queen was going to great lengths to cure him. Even more quietly, the name of the Indigo Brotherhood could be heard. </P> <P> </P> <P>Secondly, I know this very well after Vahlar all but tore my throat out for saying there was no Nektropos Castle in EQ 1 :-</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kyvthuhlu wrote:<BR> <P>You are quite mistaken my friend.</P> <P>Firstly, the story line window:</P> <P>Shadows of Nektulos<BR><BR>From the saddle of her unholy steed, <FONT color=#ff0000>Lanys T`Vyl</FONT>, the child of Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, surveyed the trolls as they marched through Nektulos Forest with all of their belongings and wares from Neriak, the dark elf city they called home for a time, to the city of Grobb in the Innothule Swamp. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>The frogloks had finally lost their foothold in Grobb and now the smelly, foul race of trolls had their home back.</FONT></STRONG><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I stopped reading right then and there. I remember hearing when the Frogloks got kicked out of Gukta and Grobb was reclaimed by the Trolls. This story doesn't apply to EQ2. It happened after Dragons of Norrath was released, which happened after EQ2 came out. It doesn't apply.

[Kyvthuhlu]

<P>...</P> <P>I am trying to point out that EverQuest 1 doesn't apply to EverQuest 2 and vice versa...</P> <P>Because they are simply too different.</P><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:31 PM</span>

[DreamerClou]

Hey Kyvthuhlu, I read the story you posted above.  I love it!  Do you have any more Dark Elven stories like this??

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV>That's not written by me, that's written by Vahlar, the eq 1 lore dev.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are a couple floating about.</DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kyvthuhlu wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>...</p> <p>I am trying to point out that EverQuest 1 doesn't apply to EverQuest 2 and vice versa...</p> <p>Because they are simply too different.</p><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class="date_text">09-05-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:31 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I wouldn't say that is completely true.  Anything in EQ up to the creation of EQ2 is very relevant to EQ2 lore.  Anything after is up for speculation.  Just because the developers of EQ saw something cool in EQ2 and used it, doesn't make the games that different to throw out all the EQ lore. IMHO the chain goes something like EQOA is trumped by EQ which is trumped by EQ2 for us.</div>

[Kyvthuhlu]

My basic position is that, obviously EQ 1 lore needs to be considered, but EQ 1 history is...well...different from EQ 2 history, so you have to be cautious when using either one as a source for either game.

[TaleraRis]

I don't see anything in From the Trial of Kane Bayle that says he wasn't Antonius' brother. One of the witnesses mentions Lord Bayle, which was Antonius IV at that time. Then there's mention of Linnet Bayle, Kane's mother, but she's not linked with Lord Bayle and is just in the document as another witness.  Kane's mother would also be rather old to be with Antonius IV. I can't recall which was older, but they were both of an age together. Kane was a full grown man and Captain of the Guard in Age of Turmoil. Granted, the EQ graphics are way out of date, but when you go talk to him he looks to be in his 30s would be my guess.<div></div>