Rodcet Nife still on Norrath?

[Malloc]

Rodcet Nife's spaceship is still in N. Qeynos?  Does this mean he never left Norrath?

[Cusashorn]

Heh. Good question. There's never really been any actual lore surrounding Rodcet Nife in the games. He was never mentioned in the Brief History of Norrath like all the other gods were (Bertoxxulous wasn't mentioned either though, but thats beside the point.)

 

I still think he's not really a god, but an omnipotent, immortal Alien....

[Homeskillet]

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Cusashorn wrote:

Heh. Good question. There's never really been any actual lore surrounding Rodcet Nife in the games. He was never mentioned in the Brief History of Norrath like all the other gods were (Bertoxxulous wasn't mentioned either though, but thats beside the point.)

 

I still think he's not really a god, but an omnipotent, immortal Alien....

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Not quite omnipotent, but powerful and advanced enough that he was indeed percieved to be a god, and was effectively diefied.

[Cusashorn]

It's kind of a joke from the Futurama video game on the PS2. Leela ends up fighting an alien who claimed himself to be a god to exploit a lesser developed alien civilization.

 

"You're right. I'm not a god. I'm just another Omnipotent, Immortal alien who only wanted to influence an underdeveloped culture of people."

 

[Jait]

The Truth is Out There.

 

Kidding aside.  He is a bit of the stereotype.  The grey skinned pumpkin headed alien.  But he's also allied with several of the Gods, which could make for a very interesting story down the road.

[Kyvthuhlu]

According to EQOA, he was a member of a necromantic civilization in the Dead Hills, and later ascended to godhood.Here's hoping that story stays in EQOA :-

[Cusashorn]

I don't beleive the developers consider most of EQOA canon anyway, since most of it contradicts EQlive.

[Kyvthuhlu]

To be fair, plenty of EQ 2 contradicts EQ live as well, I often just go to the Vahlar quote:

Hi folks,

 

Like I've said before and you've all basically stated it here, all three are different games, but what remains the same is the basic history -- gods, larger events, and some main characters.

 

For example, EQ RPG takes great liberty with parts of the storyline that they make quite granular with unique characters, however, any mention of the regions, gods, etc. pretty much stick to what most of us accept as "truth."

 

If you've read any of the books, you'll know what I mean.

 

-Vahlar

I treat them, without fail, as seperate games, and Vahlar has always seemed to agreed with that.

Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on 08-23-2006 10:52 PM

[Cusashorn]

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Kyvthuhlu wrote:
To be fair, plenty of EQ 2 contradicts EQ live as well, I often just go to the Vahlar quote:

Hi folks,

 

Like I've said before and you've all basically stated it here, all three are different games, but what remains the same is the basic history -- gods, larger events, and some main characters.

 

For example, EQ RPG takes great liberty with parts of the storyline that they make quite granular with unique characters, however, any mention of the regions, gods, etc. pretty much stick to what most of us accept as "truth."

 

If you've read any of the books, you'll know what I mean.

 

-Vahlar

I treat them, without fail, as seperate games, and Vahlar has always agreed with that.

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EQ2 takes place in an alternate universe 500 years in the future. Being in the future alone means it doesn't contradict anything unless its intentional. Being in an alternate timeline gives it reason to be intentional though.

[Kyvthuhlu]

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EQ2 takes place in an alternate universe 500 years in the future. Being in the future alone means it doesn't contradict anything unless its intentional. Being in an alternate timeline gives it reason to be intentional though.

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There are quite a few things I've noticed in EQ2's timeline, even its history that's supposed to predate Planes of Power where the cut off happens, that do contradict, or give liberties to, the original EverQuest story.The Order of Marr's Fist is my favorite to cite personally.In terms of EQlive, we generally just make it a rule not to use EQ 2 lore references to "cite" EQ 1 lore references - because when they are divergent and alternate, both development teams have free reign to adjust their "pasts" as they see fit.  An example of such being also...Nektropos Castle.I don't believe it was ever King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQ 2's history.

[Cusashorn]

uhh it doesn't Pre-date the Planes of Power... unless you're talking about one of those events that happened in EQlive after EQ2 came out who's lore states that things were happening before the split. Examples of what I'm talking about is all of the Dragons of Norrath expansion pack and Mayong Mistmoore becomming a god. Those don't apply to EQ2 just because it says they happened before it, though technically weren't released untill after EQ2 did first.

 

The time split happened on July of 2003 when the first guilds finally conquered the Plane of Time in PoP.

 

 

And it wasn't King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQ2 because it's Lord Everling's personal domain in EQlive and EQ2. It just doesn't exist as a zone in EQlive, but it's still written into the history.

[Kyvthuhlu]

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uhh it doesn't Pre-date the Planes of Power... unless you're talking about one of those events that happened in EQlive after EQ2 came out who's lore states that things were happening before the split. Examples of what I'm talking about is all of the Dragons of Norrath expansion pack and Mayong Mistmoore becomming a god. Those don't apply to EQ2 just because it says they happened before it, though technically weren't released untill after EQ2 did first.

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I see what you're saying, and I agree, but to press a bit further, I can't stress enough that EverQuest 2 takes liberties with its "past" that simply don't exist in EverQuest's "past".I'm not arguing your vast knowledge of EQ 2, from what I've seen, when it comes to EQ 2 lore, you are the guy to talk to you, you are "Senor In the Know"......but that doesn't make EverQuest 2 "history" a valid source of information for EverQuest 1's history.  They are two totally different teams with two totally different ideas for their own respective games.

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And it wasn't King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQ2 because it's Lord Everling's personal domain in EQlive and EQ2. It just doesn't exist as a zone in EQlive, but it's still written into the history.

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Actually, it is King Naythox Thex's personal domain in EQlive.  Lord Everling has never been mentioned at any time in EverQuest 1, and yet Nektropos Castle was explained as being King Naythox Thex's personal keep when he needs "time away" from Queen Cristanos.Personally though, I'd rather discuss the lore in its entirety than get locked into a debate about the EQ 1 EQ 2 connection.

Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on 08-23-2006 11:09 PM

[Pyrrhx]

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Cusashorn wrote:

I don't beleive the developers consider most of EQOA canon anyway, since most of it contradicts EQlive.

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That doesn't mean that they won't make use of it. 

For example, the inclusion of Hanif , doing exactly what the Springview healers in EQOA did, means they do pull from EQOA lore.  In this case lore relevant to Bertoxxuluous... and if followed relevantly close Rodcet as well.

On an aside; very littly  of the lore from either EQ/EQOA should be cannon for EQ2.  They should only provide general direction.

 

 

[Pyrrhx]

Silly browser. Double post!!

 

Message Edited by Pyrrhx on 08-24-2006 03:11 AM

[Kyvthuhlu]

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On an aside; very littly  of the lore from either EQ/EQOA should be cannon for EQ2.  They should only provide general direction.

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Agreed completely.

[Iagan the Swart]

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Pyrrhx wrote:

Springview Healer>, doing exactly what the Springview healers in EQOA did, means they do pull from EQOA lore.  In this case lore relevant to Bertoxxuluous... and if followed relevantly close Rodcet as well.

On an aside; very littly  of the lore from either EQ/EQOA should be cannon for EQ2.  They should only provide general direction.

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Sorry to hijack this thread, but this makes me wonder about the OOLS.  Previous forum posts have presented evidence that Bertuxxulous (spelling?) might have something to do with the OOLS.  If both Bertox, and Rodcet Nife were made into gods around the same time, I wonder if Rodcet Nife will then have a larger role to play in saving Norath from the void.  I present this merely as someting to ponder.  I never played EQOA or EQ live, and am not familiar with their lore.

[RPZip]

It's not quite that he's directly involved with the OLS... but more that one of the planets where he has had an influence (Berox?) was invaded/attacked by the Shadowed Men and they managed to capture one of their kings. That'd make him [Removed for Content] at the Shadowed Men, not part of their invasion plan to destroy Norrath... and would mean that, at some point, we might have Berty helping us to destroy the invaders from the Void.

[Kyvthuhlu]

Was it ever said in game that he's literally from another planet?  Or that that's his "space ship"?

[Fizwi]

Alien, god, or....FISH?!I see no Koalindl fishes under the saucer, sadly. 

[Ilucide]

Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!

[RaphaNissi]

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Ilucide wrote:Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!

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A thread about Rodcet and Bertox and you throw out Tarinax....interesting.  What kind of cookie? 

[Ilucide]

It was actually more to do with the ensuing discussion about canon vs. non-canon, and really has nothing to do with Rodcet & Bertox. Thread derailment points for me!As far as the cookie goes, it'll have to be the imaginary kind.

[DreamerClou]

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Ilucide wrote:
Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!

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Did Tarinax's history orginate from from an old EQ cell phone game?

[StaAk]

For what it's worth, Tarinax is mentioned in an in-game book, "Destroyer's Folly". To summarize, Tarinax is called a betrayer, the wielder of the Harness, and the controller of the Drakota. He was out to release two dragons, one of fire and one of ice. Whether or not those two are Nagafen and Vox or the other pair that's responsible for Kerafyrm isn't clear. Whether or not Tarinax succeeded in his quest isnt mentioned either. Tarinax was slain by a hero though, which sent his Drakota, free of the Harness's influence, into an uncontrolled frenzy. The Ring of Scale intervened and retook control over the Drakota.I believe that it was after Tarinax's death, while his soul was in the Ethernere, that the denizens of the Obelisk captured his spirit.I remember the thread from way back that mentioned a dragon named Tarinax, or Terrinax, coming from the EverQuest: Hero's Call cell phone game. I have never played that so I can't say for certain. I believe that this is quite possibly the true origin of Tarinax, considering the fact that there are people who are convinced that only EQ1 pre-Plane of Time is the valid history of EQ2 and Ilucide has come completely out of left field to bring him up in reference to this debate. Other Devs have referenced places and events from the other EverQuest games. I have my own views on what should be considered canon but this thread is already derailed enough and I won't elaborate further here.

[Mary the Prophetess]

To wade in on the 'canon' vs. 'non-canon' theme:

I believe that when EQ Live was first envisioned and released, the the background lore at that point took a back seat to the nuts and bolts of producing a workable, (and marketable), MMORPG.

What the developers came up with, (lore-wise), at the time was more than adequate for the task.  Yet it was only a frame on which to build; in short, it was incomplete and open-ended; and intentionally so.  It allowed room for future developments and expansions.

As time progressed, and more expansions were released, some of the back story lines were filled in to explain the lore behind those expansions.  The body of lore began to build.  Players began to ask for more information, and began to speculate on the missing areas within the lore.

Development continued apace, following a number of different plot lines.  EQ spin-offs emerged covering different periods of time of Norrath's history, with their own lore to explain their own plot lines.

At first, the separation of different games covering different eras was not a particular problem.  After all, it was a different time, and it covered areas of Norrathian lore tha had not been covered in EQ Live.  The developers were, more or less, free to make up their own stories with little thought or concern of whether contardictions were beginning to emerge.

Eventually, the amount of lore being generated within EQ Live alone, (not to mention the various other Norrathian based games), reached a point where it became too much to effectively keep track of by those in charge of the story lines.

Yet the lore being generated continued to increase as both the expansions and the spin-offs continued.

It was fast becoming a 'runaway train'.

Since the release of EQ2, and particularly within the last year or so, I have precieved an increased recognition of the problem, and an effort made to try to reconcile at least some of the various lore threads; not only within this particular game itself, but across the spanse of Norrathian history as presented in all it's various forms.

I applaud this effort, and I sympathize with those tasked with trying to provide some linkage (if it is at all possible) between one game and the next.

I never played EQoA, and have not played EQ Live now for almost two years, so I can not attest to any similar effort of consolidation (at whatever level, even if it is trivial) on the part of those game developers, but I see little efforts here and there on the part of our developers to do so.  This is a very good thing, and is much appreciated.

Yet it may be a Gordian Knot in the end, because Norrath does not speak in one voice, and is not likely to ever do so.

Still, to the degree that it is possible, I appreciate the efforts of all our developers to weave some of the various threads together into a, (somewhat), more coherrant whole.

Thank you again for the depth and richness of the lore of Norrath.  It is this, as much as any other factor, which sets EQ apart from their other MMORPG competitors.

[troodon]

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StaAk wrote:

I believe that this is quite possibly the true origin of Tarinax, considering the fact that there are people who are convinced that only EQ1 pre-Plane of Time is the valid history of EQ2 and Ilucide has come completely out of left field to bring him up in reference to this debate. Other Devs have referenced places and events from the other EverQuest games. I have my own views on what should be considered canon but this thread is already derailed enough and I won't elaborate further here.

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Drawing on certain characters or stories from these games is one thing; inheriting them wholesale is an entirely different animal.  A big dumb animal :smileytongue:

[Nocturnal Aby]

I've learned through the occasional little tidbits I get from Vhalen (maybe Vhalar's cousin?), that a LOT of the lore for the game, concernion places, and events, and such, came from various D&D scenarios they used to play!  One such example would be much of the original Everling story.  Heh, and I know that the god Tholuxe Paells and the lore around him originated from a trip Vhalen and some of the others took to Vegas (Tholuxe Paells is the god of lust, or the "Demi-god of Debauchery")  Sounds like it was a good trip

 

As to EQ lining up with EQ2...lorewise, they have done a WONDERFUL job keeping it all in line...geographically, the zones are pretty messed up.  Not like mountains and stuff being where they weren't before, but more like entire zones rotating 90-180 degrees, or well known zones and landmarks being in places that they weren't before.  A lot of times, it looks like they game designers created the zones and dungeons, and took it to the lore developers and said, "Here you go, make the lore fit!"  And the designers then have to come up with explanations as to why Blackburrow is now Southeast of Qeynos instead of Northeast of Qeynos.  Why the entrance to Neriak (Fallen Gate) can be found almost due West of Freeport (was in the North eastern wall of Nektulos, roughly where Nektropos Castle, Tribulation is), and why (actually, I don't think I've heard anyone ask this one before) the Enachanted Lands, which was supposedly at one time the Misty Thicket (complete with the Wall and Runnyeye) is now WEST of Rivervale, when it used to be East.  As I said, it looks like the game designers layout the zones, and landmarks, and then tell the Lore developers "Deal with it"

If you do see contradictions betweeen EQ and EQ2, I'd love to hear them.  Try as I might, none really come to mind.

 

 

 

[TheManInTheBox]

Yes... Zazoo, Mayong, and Lucan were all D&D characters originally.

[Kyvthuhlu]

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If you do see contradictions betweeen EQ and EQ2, I'd love to hear them.  Try as I might, none really come to mind.

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1. Kane Bayle's non-brotherly relation to Antonius Bayle.
2. The Order of Marr's Fist, something that exists in EQRPG and EQ 2 alone.
3. The Castle of Val'Marr.
4. The subterranean Teir'Dal Empire
5. The origins of SoulFire
6. The various emperors and kings of Neriak.
7. Various geographical changes including the enormous N'Mar's Ascent.
8. Nektropos Castle not belonging to the Thex family line but belonging to an outsider.

(If I'm mistaken in any of these numbers do forgive me, I'm piecing things together as best a level 30 Shadow Knight can).In closing, here's a statement from EQ 1's lore lady:

I've had many discussions with the EQII team and we often talk about diversions in our stories and how they make sense and how they differ.

 

We like to keep each other informed and support each other's ideas.  There are devs on EQII that have been around since EQ1 launched, so there is plenty of perspective going on for both game storylines.

 

But yes, we do separate in a variety of ways and I'm very much glad we do.  We'd be very restricted in our expansion content and our outlook for the future if we had to follow a path that included a huge time gap and, jeepers, what would happen when we actually met up with the eqII timeline-Vahlar

[Ilucide]

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DreamerCloud9 wrote:

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Ilucide wrote:Cookie to the person who can tell me where Tarinax's history originated!

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Did Tarinax's history orginate from from an old EQ cell phone game?

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Virtual cookie for you!