Ratonga and Brell

[RoninSenshi]

<div>The Ratonga are from a place in the Plane of the Underfoot called "The Vault of Serilis" (Serilis may be spelled wrong).</div><div> </div><div>You can find this information in the EQ2 Table Top Roleplay Guidebook, where they describe the Ratonga race.</div><div> </div><div>Since they are from the Plane of the Underfoot, it is safe to assume that Brell Serillis created them. This produces a bit of a problem, seeing how Brell only created good and neutral races in the past (Dwarves are good, Gnomes are neutral).</div><div> </div><div>Ratonga are an evil race however. Could this mean that Brell isn't a Good/Neutral god after all and is just a Neutral god? He did allow Cazic Thule and Rallos Zek to enter the pacts that put races on the land.</div><div> </div><div>Also, before anyone says it.. the Goblins were created by Rallos Zek, not Brell.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Brell has always been a Neutral god. He also created the gnolls, who arn't inherantly evil for the most part.</div><div> </div><div>Being neutral means that you don't have to play on only one side of the field or the other. You can play both if you wish.</div>

[RoninSenshi]

<div>Gnolls aren't evil for the most part. Just human bigotry makes them seem like they are. As you said.</div><div> </div><div>But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath?</div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ShintouShinai wrote:<div> </div><div>But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath?</div><hr></blockquote>now that part is still a mystery.

[Delameko Stone]

<div></div>Here's some info from an old post:<blockquote><hr><div>-The Ratonga's real name are the Roekillik.</div><div> </div><div>-They were created by Brell and lived in the Underfoot and lived in the lowest depths.</div><div> </div><div>-The current Roekillik are the 2nd generation of them. The originals marched on the Underfoot so Brell locked them away in the deepest vaults of the Underfoot.  The original's had incredible psychic powers and much larger teeth and claws, and used this to dominate the Underfoot. They were led by the great mage N'Gurai.  Brell decided his creations were too powerful and locked them away.</div><div> </div><div>-Brell tried again and created the current ratonga, less intelligent, with less powers and smaller claws and teeth. However, he had Bristlebane assist him to give them a spot of mirth, which gave the current Ratonga rogue like qualities.  These Ratonga made their way into the upper underfoot and adopted the name Adventurers gave them for their appearence-Ratonga. They made their way to the surface to escape the Tier'Dals queen domination of the Underfoot.  That's right, The Tier'dal moved from Neriak to the Underfoot on purpose, closing Neriak on purpose. See other topic.</div><div> </div><div>-Most Ratonga have a strange series of circles with unaligned gaps tattooed on their chest. Reason why is unknown.</div><div> </div><div>-The original Roekillik have escaped the vaults of the Underfoot due to the shattering breaking the seal. N'Gurai still lives and have brought them to the ancient Dark Elf Fortress of Anetiff.  The Roekillik have begun a genocide of the 2nd generation of Ratonga and plan to kill all of them, one by one.</div><hr></blockquote>Here's the original post:<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=406" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=406</a><p>Message Edited by Delameko Stone on <span class="date_text">03-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:34 PM</span></p>

[RoninSenshi]

<div>I hate talking about the Tier'dal, but they always sneak into every post. Fine I'll cave.</div><div> </div><div>Queen Crissy actually got her way and is attempting to overtake the underfoot? How about a link to that thread as well.</div><div> </div><div>Back to Ratonga.. Cousins of the Roekillik you say? I really need to get on Shin and finish that Icy Digs quest thinggy. Would that also make the Ratonga the second race created by two gods (Barbarians being creatted by Mithanel and E. Marr?)</div><div> </div><div>Could it be possible that their is a current war going on in the Underfoot between the Tier'dal and the Ratpeoples down there?</div><div> </div><div>It is unfortunate that SoE never opened up the Underfoot in EQ1.. so many lore things die down there.. It would of been nice to get to explore the place, kick Brell around a bit for not inviting Innoruuk into the Pact.. etc..</div>

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ShintouShinai wrote:<div>Gnolls aren't evil for the most part. Just human bigotry makes them seem like they are. As you said.</div><div> </div><div>But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Brell may not have created the Ratonga to be evil, but the free will that is given to us all might have turned them that way.</p><p>Or, the Ratonga could have been angry for Brell to turn His back on them and decided to be spiteful and be evil.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:<div></div><p>Or, the Ratonga could have been angry for Brell to turn His back on them and decided to be spiteful and be evil.</p><hr></blockquote>What leads you to conclude that possibility?

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<div></div><p>All of the gods abandoned their chosen children. The gods saw how greedy everyone was becoming and decided to close the planes up for visitors leaving norrath behind.</p><p>It's part to the story when you first start your character. They go through the whole thing.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Abandoning and ignoring the mortals does not equal betraying them. In fact, we betrayed THEM.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>And that's also on the assumption that the Ratonga were actually all that religious in the first place. We've seen no mention that they actually value religion or faith at all.</div>

[NocteBla]

<div></div>The ratonga aren't necessarily evil just because they live in Freeport. They are opportunistic and maybe a little shadey, but I don't think they are<strong> inherantly</strong> evil.

[IrishWonder]

<div><blockquote><hr>ShintouShinai wrote:<div> </div><div>Since they are from the Plane of the Underfoot, it is safe to assume that Brell Serillis created them. This produces a bit of a problem, seeing how Brell only created good and neutral races in the past (Dwarves are good, Gnomes are neutral).</div><div> </div><div>Ratonga are an evil race however. Could this mean that Brell isn't a Good/Neutral god after all and is just a Neutral god? He did allow Cazic Thule and Rallos Zek to enter the pacts that put races on the land.</div><hr></blockquote>"Good" and "evil" are perceptions that we place on people/actions. For instance, when Innoruuk created the Dark Elves, he specifically did it with the intent to challenge/mock the elven empire. This was their intent from the start. Therefore, the Dark Elves are considered an "evil" race, and Innoruuk is considered an "evil" god.</div><div> </div><div>However, when Brell created the Ratonga, or any of his many races for that matter, he didn't do it with any specific intent (other than populating Norrath with his creations). He didn't create the Dwarves to be good... they did that on their own. He didn't create the Ratonga to be evil (or align with Freeport... that action alone doesn't really make them "evil&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, they did that on their own. That's the definition of neutrality.... Brell throws things at Norrath and let's them decide where to stick :smileywink: While the individual races chose to swing one way or another, Brell still created them as neutral in terms of the Freeport vs Qeynos debate. So I'd say Brell is still as neutral as he always was :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>On a side note, I'd think twice before labelling Brell as "Good/Neutral". He may have created the Dwarves, but if I remember correctly, he deceived the gods in order to get as many of his creations onto Norrath as possible. Deception, though the results may have been good, isn't exactly a "good" act :smileywink:</div>

[Delameko Stone]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>ShintouShinai wrote:<div>I hate talking about the Tier'dal, but they always sneak into every post. Fine I'll cave.</div><div> </div><div>Queen Crissy actually got her way and is attempting to overtake the underfoot? How about a link to that thread as well.</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote></span>Here you go <span>:smileyhappy:</span> :<blockquote><hr>The Tier'dal closed Neriak on purpose. The Tier'Dal Queen decided to march on the Underfoot during the shattering, causing the Ratonga(Roekillik, the 2nd generation, see other thread) to head to the surface for safety. They shut Neriak because they wanted total domination of the underground. The Tier'Dal on the surface are the outcasts of Neriak and looked upon by the real Tier'Dal as a disgrace and weak. The Underfoot is currently controlled by the Tier'dal and the vast kingdom of Neriak is alive and well beneath the surface.  I'm sure adventurer's will encounter them one day.  There is special hate for the Thexians, who are attempting to reopen Neriak and start a new empire. The halfling's invaded Neriak after the Tier'dal moved to the deeper Underfoot, as this was all a farce by the Tier'Dal Queen to make it look as if the Tier'Dal were defeated, when in fact the Tier'Dal are stronger then ever and are the force beneath Norrath.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=407#M407" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=407#M407</a></div>

[SpryYoungE]

<div>The ratonga aren't inherently evil, merely opportunistic. The only reason they came to live in Freeport was that they helped the city fend off invasion by allowing supplies to be shipped through their tunnel networks from the Desert of Ro.</div><div> </div><div>Also, the History of the Ratonga seems to indicate a link to the Underfoot, always speaking of the strange ways of the inhabitants of the 'Overworld.'</div>

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Abandoning and ignoring the mortals does not equal betraying them. In fact, we betrayed THEM.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>And that's also on the assumption that the Ratonga were actually all that religious in the first place. We've seen no mention that they actually value religion or faith at all.</div><hr></blockquote>I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:<div></div>I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?<hr></blockquote><p>That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.</p>

[Trepan]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:<div></div>I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?<hr></blockquote>I don't agree that Brell abandoned them.They were living IN the realm of the Underfoot.   That is where Brell LIVES.    If you still live in the house with your parents, they have not "abandoned" you.  You leave the house and strike out on your own, again, you were not abandoned.   You grew up and moved out  (this adds a new spin on "Move out of your parent's basement" - your parent's house is the WORLD's basement!).As for talking about it:  Religious Fanatiscm is for people with something to prove.  Those who live with their god and know them personally... whats to prove?  Facts is facts as boring as it is.   It'd be like sharing an apartment with Elvis.   You'd probably be less likely to run around bragging about it than complain about him leaving the cap off the toothpaste, or those (*&@#$ socks and underwear all over the floor!  Dammit Elvis, can't you wash the frying pan after making a 'naner sandwich?  STOP DRINKING OUT OF THE MILK CARTON!</span></div><p>Message Edited by Trepan on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:57 AM</span></p>

[Vhalen]

<div></div><div>I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth. </div>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div></div><div>I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth. </div><hr></blockquote>So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"

[Trepan]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div>So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"<hr></blockquote>Oh man, thats a good one.  *wipes tears from his eyes*.Don't forget to tip your wait-staff!Edit:  That was sarcasm.   You will never see the day that Vhalen is torn asunder by the Lore community because *HE* didn't know something about Norrathian lore in EQ2.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Trepan on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:48 PM</span></p>

[Araxes]

You's will never knows our secrets!  Nevers!  NEVERS!  yisyisHowevers ... we's knows our own secrets very wells, yis we do's.We's just not tellings.  Nos nos nos.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<blockquote><hr>Trepan wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div>So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"<hr></blockquote>Oh man, thats a good one.  *wipes tears from his eyes*.Don't forget to tip your wait-staff!Edit:  That was sarcasm.   You will never see the day that Vhalen is torn asunder by the Lore community because *HE* didn't know something about Norrathian lore in EQ2.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Trepan on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:48 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yeah. He's the one who creates it. Proving him wrong for any reason other than immediate short-term forgetfulness would be equivalent to dividing by Zero.

[Delameko Stone]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div></div><div>I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth. </div><hr></blockquote>So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"<hr></blockquote>No, he's saying the secrets that the ratonga know are not yet to be known by other races.  And he can't reveal them to one without revealing to the whole.</span></div>

[DreamerClou]

<div></div>Like the last poster said, it seems Vhalen wants to reveal some Ratonga lore --  but to just the Ratonga players.  Kind of like them knowing / having their own secret.  The problem is that some of the Ratonga players might just blurt out what the secrets are to non-Ratonga players.  He doesn't want that, which is understandable.

[vikingthug]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:<div></div>I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?<hr></blockquote><p>That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.</p><p> </p><p>   Ok, Mr. I want to agrue with everyone...There is no proof that they werent either.. So, that being said, the ratling god was miffed, turned his back, and the cheese gobblers got bent out of shape and turned to the dark side. </p><p>    Lets face it kids, whether we like it or not, it doesnt reallly matter.  The Devs drop sublte hints, toss out the occasional bone, but to what effect?  Keep us wondering, hoping maybe? We could sit here and debate the color of brells underwear or whether he goes commando or not, untill were blue in the face.  And and soon as we come to a group concensus, the devs are apt to come along and drop something that only serves to stir up the pot again.  Im sure that the devs love to sit back and watch as some of you who, take this way too serrious, dance like trained monkeys to theyre tune.  Lets look at a few facts.</p><p>1. Gods left...Oh knows! </p><p>2. Some god created the rats...Oh knows!</p><p>3. 5 people actually play a ratonga charactor... Oh...wait, only five...hahahahahahah...(tear)</p><p>    All joking aside, I know that many of you are very interested in your races orgins and history.  But lets face it, EQ2 is the lazy mans EQ1.  Sony made it incredibly simple for themselves by only allowing two starting points and lumping all the races into two cities.  They dont have to concentrate on lore or history so much, since all they have to say is, "this is a new time line and things are different. " In other words, they are winging it and making it up as they go along. </p><p>    Now, some of the new lore is fun to read, and I enjoy it, but Im not sure why they have this profound need to hide, or keep info from folks.  Perhaps it makes them feel clever in some way.  I say, if your not going to give up the info, then dont drop these subtle ultra vague clues hinting and what may or may not be revealed five expansions down there road, where gasp!  There will still be only two places to start a toon and all the new content will be for the end game players.</p><p>    Devs, you have some serriously lore hungry addicts lurking in theyre families basments clammoring for lore. Quit jerking them around and just tell them.  This whole "I have a secret but Im not telling" routine is just stale.  Dont get me wrong, but how long have the rats been running arund EQ2 now? And your still playing the secret game.. Enough is enough.</p></div><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:37 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:42 AM</span></p>

[Delameko Stone]

<div></div>It's the same reason a book's ending isn't revealed on the first page...The subtle hints create intrigue and interest, it'd be awfully boring if everything was laid out for us with no secrets to discover.<p>Message Edited by Delameko Stone on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:55 AM</span></p>

[vikingthug]

<div></div><div></div><p>Your kidding me right?  How long are they going to drag this out.  I didnt say give up all the info now... But for the sake of those living in theyre mothers attic, atleat release the data in a timely fashion.  I stand by my preveous statement.  As far as lore goes with EQ2 its weaksauce, plain and simple.  Its good, but weak and lacking.. if I order a hamburger and fries, dont just bring me the burger and tell me to wait for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fries.. But then again maybe they think they are being clever.. Hell my 3 year old thinks he's clever when he hides his food under his plate..Guess what?  He's not, and neither are they for that matter.  They have some very creative and intelligent people working for them of that Ive no doubt.  But if i wanted a book about bread crumbs, Id have bought Hansel and Gretal.  Its not that they are being stingy with the info, I just highly doubt they even have the info as of yet.  Remember, when they brought on the whole this is a divergent timeline they pretty much were given free reign to make drek up as they went along. </p><p>    Bottom line is this.  The rat lovers want to know the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] basics on theyre race. How long are you gonna make them dance like circus monkeys.  I believe that when someone has a valid question supported by some indepth investigations, the least you could do is give them the answer they are searching for, not some cryptic psycho babble that only confuses and prolongs the inevtiable.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 AM</span></p>

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:<div></div>I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?<hr></blockquote><p>That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.</p><p> </p><p>   Ok, Mr. I want to agrue with everyone...There is no proof that they werent either.. So, that being said, the ratling god was miffed, turned his back, and the cheese gobblers got bent out of shape and turned to the dark side. </p><p>    Lets face it kids, whether we like it or not, it doesnt reallly matter.  The Devs drop sublte hints, toss out the occasional bone, but to what effect?  Keep us wondering, hoping maybe? We could sit here and debate the color of brells underwear or whether he goes commando or not, untill were blue in the face.  And and soon as we come to a group concensus, the devs are apt to come along and drop something that only serves to stir up the pot again.  Im sure that the devs love to sit back and watch as some of you who, take this way too serrious, dance like trained monkeys to theyre tune.  Lets look at a few facts.</p><p>1. Gods left...Oh knows! </p><p>2. Some god created the rats...Oh knows!</p><p>3. 5 people actually play a ratonga charactor... Oh...wait, only five...hahahahahahah...(tear)</p><p>    All joking aside, I know that many of you are very interested in your races orgins and history.  But lets face it, EQ2 is the lazy mans EQ1.  Sony made it incredibly simple for themselves by only allowing two starting points and lumping all the races into two cities.  They dont have to concentrate on lore or history so much, since all they have to say is, "this is a new time line and things are different. " In other words, they are winging it and making it up as they go along. </p><p>    Now, some of the new lore is fun to read, and I enjoy it, but Im not sure why they have this profound need to hide, or keep info from folks.  Perhaps it makes them feel clever in some way.  I say, if your not going to give up the info, then dont drop these subtle ultra vague clues hinting and what may or may not be revealed five expansions down there road, where gasp!  There will still be only two places to start a toon and all the new content will be for the end game players.</p><p>    Devs, you have some serriously lore hungry addicts lurking in theyre families basments clammoring for lore. Quit jerking them around and just tell them.  This whole "I have a secret but Im not telling" routine is just stale.  Dont get me wrong, but how long have the rats been running arund EQ2 now? And your still playing the secret game.. Enough is enough.</p></div><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:37 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:42 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Jesus dude, get [Removed for Content] off about it.

[vikingthug]

<div></div>You hit the nail right on the head.. Here's your button.  The dancing monkeys are over there, move along now nothing to see here.

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<div></div>...but what if I don't like monkies?...:smileysad:

[Trepan]

<div></div>I love monkeys.  I just can't eat a whole one in one sitting.    (monkey left overs suck).We'll get the lore, eventually, maybe.  In the mean time our knowledge that there is information that we don't yet have is lore in and of itself.And I thought it was basement dwellers, not attics.   Attics are for Sentinals in rocking chairs.  And flowers.  And Toys.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Trepan on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:08 PM</span></p>

[Delameko Stone]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Your kidding me right?  How long are they going to drag this out.  I didnt say give up all the info now... But for the sake of those living in theyre mothers attic, atleat release the data in a timely fashion.  I stand by my preveous statement.  As far as lore goes with EQ2 its weaksauce, plain and simple.  Its good, but weak and lacking.. if I order a hamburger and fries, dont just bring me the burger and tell me to wait for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fries.. But then again maybe they think they are being clever.. Hell my 3 year old thinks he's clever when he hides his food under his plate..Guess what?  He's not, and neither are they for that matter.  They have some very creative and intelligent people working for them of that Ive no doubt.  But if i wanted a book about bread crumbs, Id have bought Hansel and Gretal.  Its not that they are being stingy with the info, I just highly doubt they even have the info as of yet.  Remember, when they brought on the whole this is a divergent timeline they pretty much were given free reign to make drek up as they went along. </p><p>    Bottom line is this.  The rat lovers want to know the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] basics on theyre race. How long are you gonna make them dance like circus monkeys.  I believe that when someone has a valid question supported by some indepth investigations, the least you could do is give them the answer they are searching for, not some cryptic psycho babble that only confuses and prolongs the inevtiable.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Simple solution: don't read the lore forum and then you won't know what you're missing.</span></div>

[vikingthug]

<div>but what if I don't like monkies?...<img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" width="16" height="16"></div><div> </div><div>MysidiaClash--That bit of humor went a long way.. After a good chuckle I went back to a semblence of sanity..:smileymad:</div>

[IrishWonder]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Your kidding me right?  How long are they going to drag this out.  I didnt say give up all the info now... But for the sake of those living in theyre mothers attic, atleat release the data in a timely fashion.</p><hr></blockquote></div><p> </p><p>I have to respectfully disagree with you. 99% of the posts on this forum begin as a query, and divulge into a debate (hopefully, and usually, friendly... but sometimes you get those who think their opinion is supreme :smileywink: ). That is what builds the lore forums. If Vhalen popped up once a week to give us a routine Lore Fact Update, there wouldn't be a lore forum. There'd be a lore encyclopedia where people came to look for a certain piece of lore they were curious about, read it, and then left. This entire thread would be a barren wasteland of Vhalen-isms to be adhered to by the masses. Imagine thousands of soldiers marching in rhythm along a cobble street, and a stately man with his hand outstretched hovering over them all, the symbol on his jacket reading SOE (and I mean no offense to any real [Removed for Content] who may be reading this... really).</p><p>Instead, what we have is a working, breathing, VERY alive forum and community. I'd challenge anyone to go find a Lore forum for another MMORPG as active and interesting as this one... I've played many, and I could almost promise you won't find one. I think what the devs are doing is great. Their posts constantly pour fuel onto the flames in a friendly and interactive way. As developers, it is their job to see to the well-being of not only the game, but all branches of the community. I'd say they are doing a very good job of insuring the health of the Lore forums. Maybe what they are doing is intentional, and maybe you are correct and even they haven't completely thought out each aspect of EQ2 lore /shrug. Regardless, the amorphous nature of these forums is what keeps them interesting, and it's what keeps people coming back to read each new reply. If we're given a clear-cut answer, well... there's not much to reply about... and not much of a reason to come check for new conversations :smileywink:</p><p>On a small side-note, I think you're being a bit unfair to the lore community. Everyone has an aspect of gaming that they relate to or like most. Personally, lore does it for me. I'm a writer, and game lore is something that is constantly updating and shifting, like a book that keeps growing pages. Plus, the added benefit of it being a game is that we all get to interact and, to some degree, change the lore :smileyhappy:</p>

[vikingthug]

<div></div><p>I enjoy readiing and learning more about Norrath, and a good mystery to boot.  But please, eventually if a topic has been debated long enough, just give up the ghost allready.  Exspecially if people have done theyre homework and put the clues togethor correctly.  I dont see the point in dragging something along over an extended long periods of time untill it becomes tedious.</p><p>    Now with us guessing what the next zone will be, that would be a no brainer, keeping a secret like that quiet makes the reveal worth while.  Personally I think its about time to give the Ratonga fans what theyve been asking for.  I have given up on ever getting any real info on the Vah Shir.  Sure Id like to play them again, but youve been more then close lipped about it.  The Beast Masters as well got the hose in EQ2 and you havent stated yet why they went the way of the dinosaurs.  Did we suddenly loose the ability to tame the animals?  Either way, a little direct info, ie a fact or two would go a long way once in a while.</p>

[IrishWonder]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<p>The Beast Masters as well got the hose in EQ2 and you havent stated yet why they went the way of the dinosaurs.  Did we suddenly loose the ability to tame the animals?  Either way, a little direct info, ie a fact or two would go a long way once in a while.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I do have to agree with you there :smileywink: Cases like that I don't even think have any lore involved with them... or atleast none worth speculating over. Were beastmasters left out of the game for technical/contextual reasons, or is it actually lore associated? They could atleast give us that much info :smileyvery-happy:</p><p>On the case of the Ratonga though... judging by Vhalen's post, it seems that there is a future adventure pack/expansion/live event planned that is going to reveal those secrets. He said all would be revealed "soon enough," which seems to point in that direction. I can understand keeping an update like that secret, as well.</p>

[vikingthug]

<div></div><p>I agree as well, while I can be a fanatic and a bit thick headed when it comes to the Vah Shir, its nice to know that those who love the Ratonga will be getting a little love in the very near future. (hopefully)</p><p>    Now if only they would throw us old school Vah Shir fans a bone.</p>

[Skratttt]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Im now thinking that A) rolelik are the 2nd oldest of all races on norrath B) reasons they had psyonic powers /claws hader than metal were an answer (maybe even to keep em in check) to the first race to inhabit norrath (which is still the most powerfull by far) Sooo confused need cheese.......<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>

[Fargil]

<DIV> <P>> I agree as well, while I can be a fanatic and a bit thick headed when it comes to the Vah Shir, its nice to know that those who </P> <P>> love the Ratonga will be getting a little love in the very near future. (hopefully)</P> <P>Ratongas always get the lovin' :smileysurprised:</P> <P>But I really hope there will be some more ratonga related stuff, since most ppl confuse Roekilliks and Ratongas :smileymad:</P> <P>/Lord Obaija Supremus - Ratonga Assassin 70</P> <P> </P></DIV>

[Pahya]

<DIV>To hijack the thread back on topic... ^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A quote from the first EQ2 guide: (please exscuse typos, I haven't touch typed since 8th grade keyboarding =P )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"The Roekillik (their true name) were created by the Duke of Below, Brell Serlis. Brell imbued the race with psiionics and placed them deep in the Underfoot, where they would tule the lowest depths. There they build cave dwellings with claws and teeth created to carve through stone. They propagated rapidly and soon had a teeming society. It would seem they would be content to rule the darkest trenche, but they turned out to be far too intelligent and evil.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Roekillik moved on to the sacred cities and villages of the underworld. With great numbers and psionic powers they overhwelmed all resistance. Their territorial lust kept them ever on the move to sieze a new land.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brell found it hard to totally eradicated a race he once loved, so he exterminated all but a small number, and placed the remaining few in a titanic Underfoot vault. He wished to create a rat race to dwell in his darkest worlds, and the Roekillik were almost perfect. He decided to try again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The second version has few psionic powers, uncontrollable by the race. He asked teh god of mischief, Bristlebane, to supply a pinch of mirth in hopes that he could keep the spirits of his rat race high. He also removed the large and formidable claws and teeth so they couldn't tunnel from the isolated depths. He then placed them deep in the Underfoot and observed once more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This second incarnation of the first seemed perfect. They lived content for a while. But something odd began to occur. They began to apear in the higher reached of the Underfoot, an area believed to be cut off. Brell soon found that the new Roekillik wer give a bit too much of Bristlebane's touch. Not only did they have mirth, but also a bit of the god's power of deception. When they began to meet adventurers from the surface, they clamed the name Ratonga, not Roekillik."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Source - Everquest2 Official Game Guide - Prima, page 23 Notes by Adrea "Cryth" Silva</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something I thought was neat, the basis of my ratonga character, taken from the same page:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"If the Ratonga use a surname they never refer to it. They deal only with their first name, which is rarely duplicated. In cases where Ratonga of the same name meet, a duel must be fought. To the victor goes the name, the loser is lucky to limp away horribly scared"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RoninSenshi]

<P>Thats actually a pretty god tidbit. It shows that Brell didn't create the Ratonga/Roekillik for evil purposes like Innoruuk/Rallos Zek/Bertoxullos/Cazic Thule did with their races.</P> <P>It seems that Brell gives his races alot of Free Will, something that alot of the other gods, espically evil ones, don't give their creations. The Ratonga took advtange of that Free Will it seems, and turned to evil. Also, as the story said, Bristlebanes influence with the Ratonga also put them on a pathway towards evil, if you remember in EQ1, even Darkelves could follow Bristlebane under the guise that some jokes can be very malious in nature.</P> <P>Letting Bristlebane influence his creatures seems to be a mistake on Brell's part if he wanted a group of good natured Ratmen.</P>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>Only Dark Elf rogues were able to follow Bristlebane in EQ1. Bristlebane isn't an evil god, just a tricky one :smileyvery-happy: Lots of halflings follow Bristlebane... and the only evil thing about those guys are those hairy feet.... ugh</DIV>

[Skratttt]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Na first off ratonga are not inherently evil,......they are just crafty (cause of Bristlebane Fizzlethorps AKA  The King of Theives influence) and shifty little creatures, seing an oportunity to save their furry hide they helped Freeport (remember Freeport was a city where good and evil coexisted, yes in constant conflict...but still good people lived there, later on luncan took complete control after the rallosian armys were slowed down by quick action from the gods, which saved the city), and took refuge there because something worse than living in an evil city would await those who tried to return to our old home down bellow........ the Roekillik were coming to get them, so between faking alliance to an evil emperor, VS geting slaughtered by their super powerfull half bretheren...the choice is obvious for a ratonga..The whole connection between Bristlebane and ratonga makes them perfect Bards and Rogues (from RP standpoint), being these proffesions are what any follower of Bristlebane would want to pursuePD:BTW while yous were reading this i stole your wallet...cant helps myself its all Bristlebanes fault yes<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>THANK YOU SO MUCH PAHYA!</P> <P>Reading this post, I was getting more and more frustrated that no one knew, and kept reading before I posted in case someone did finally front the lore.  You left out the last couple tid bits, though, some of which was mentioned earlier.</P> <P>During the Rending, the vault that held the original Roekillik was torn open, and they were once again released upon the Underfoot, where they discovered their replacements.  This enraged the evil ratment, as they did not like the idea of this lesser race replacing them, so they immediately set about trying to exterminate this pathetic insult to their image.  That's when the race to the surface began.  The Roekillik chased the Ratonga to the surface.  In fact, there is an NPC who talks about the day the Ratonga arrived in Freeport, which happens to be only 10-15 years ago (so if your character has lived in Freeport for very long, they will remember it too!!)  He doesn't like, nor trust the little devils, but he says only a small few started popping up out of the sewer, and before you knew it, they had made an audience with the Foci, who then took their ambassadors to the Overlord, who made a some deal with them in private, next thing you knew it, the city was practically overrun with them!  No one knows what deal they made with Lucan for sanctuary in his city, but you can bet it had nothing to do with the Ratonga's baking skills.</P> <P>Hmm, anyone ever notice what race the emmisarries were?</P> <P> </P> <P>Keeper of Lore</P> <P>Endless Source of Useless Information</P><p>Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on <span class=date_text>05-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 AM</span>