Ratonga and Brell

RoninSenshi · 03-26-2006, 11:00 PM

The Ratonga are from a place in the Plane of the Underfoot called "The Vault of Serilis" (Serilis may be spelled wrong).

You can find this information in the EQ2 Table Top Roleplay Guidebook, where they describe the Ratonga race.

Since they are from the Plane of the Underfoot, it is safe to assume that Brell Serillis created them. This produces a bit of a problem, seeing how Brell only created good and neutral races in the past (Dwarves are good, Gnomes are neutral).

Ratonga are an evil race however. Could this mean that Brell isn't a Good/Neutral god after all and is just a Neutral god? He did allow Cazic Thule and Rallos Zek to enter the pacts that put races on the land.

Also, before anyone says it.. the Goblins were created by Rallos Zek, not Brell.

Cusashorn · 03-26-2006, 11:21 PM

Brell has always been a Neutral god. He also created the gnolls, who arn't inherantly evil for the most part.

Being neutral means that you don't have to play on only one side of the field or the other. You can play both if you wish.

RoninSenshi · 03-26-2006, 11:24 PM

Gnolls aren't evil for the most part. Just human bigotry makes them seem like they are. As you said.

But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath?

Cusashorn · 03-26-2006, 11:28 PM

ShintouShinai wrote:

But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath?

now that part is still a mystery.

Delameko Stone · 03-27-2006, 05:32 PM

Here's some info from an old post:

-The Ratonga's real name are the Roekillik.

-They were created by Brell and lived in the Underfoot and lived in the lowest depths.

-The current Roekillik are the 2nd generation of them. The originals marched on the Underfoot so Brell locked them away in the deepest vaults of the Underfoot. The original's had incredible psychic powers and much larger teeth and claws, and used this to dominate the Underfoot. They were led by the great mage N'Gurai. Brell decided his creations were too powerful and locked them away.

-Brell tried again and created the current ratonga, less intelligent, with less powers and smaller claws and teeth. However, he had Bristlebane assist him to give them a spot of mirth, which gave the current Ratonga rogue like qualities. These Ratonga made their way into the upper underfoot and adopted the name Adventurers gave them for their appearence-Ratonga. They made their way to the surface to escape the Tier'Dals queen domination of the Underfoot. That's right, The Tier'dal moved from Neriak to the Underfoot on purpose, closing Neriak on purpose. See other topic.

-Most Ratonga have a strange series of circles with unaligned gaps tattooed on their chest. Reason why is unknown.

-The original Roekillik have escaped the vaults of the Underfoot due to the shattering breaking the seal. N'Gurai still lives and have brought them to the ancient Dark Elf Fortress of Anetiff. The Roekillik have begun a genocide of the 2nd generation of Ratonga and plan to kill all of them, one by one.

Here's the original post:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=406

Message Edited by Delameko Stone on 03-27-200612:34 PM

RoninSenshi · 04-01-2006, 02:31 AM

I hate talking about the Tier'dal, but they always sneak into every post. Fine I'll cave.

Queen Crissy actually got her way and is attempting to overtake the underfoot? How about a link to that thread as well.

Back to Ratonga.. Cousins of the Roekillik you say? I really need to get on Shin and finish that Icy Digs quest thinggy. Would that also make the Ratonga the second race created by two gods (Barbarians being creatted by Mithanel and E. Marr?)

Could it be possible that their is a current war going on in the Underfoot between the Tier'dal and the Ratpeoples down there?

It is unfortunate that SoE never opened up the Underfoot in EQ1.. so many lore things die down there.. It would of been nice to get to explore the place, kick Brell around a bit for not inviting Innoruuk into the Pact.. etc..

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 04-01-2006, 02:45 AM

ShintouShinai wrote:
Gnolls aren't evil for the most part. Just human bigotry makes them seem like they are. As you said.

But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath?

Brell may not have created the Ratonga to be evil, but the free will that is given to us all might have turned them that way.

Or, the Ratonga could have been angry for Brell to turn His back on them and decided to be spiteful and be evil.

Cusashorn · 04-01-2006, 03:04 AM

MysidiaClash wrote:
Or, the Ratonga could have been angry for Brell to turn His back on them and decided to be spiteful and be evil.

What leads you to conclude that possibility?

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 04-01-2006, 03:06 AM

All of the gods abandoned their chosen children. The gods saw how greedy everyone was becoming and decided to close the planes up for visitors leaving norrath behind.

It's part to the story when you first start your character. They go through the whole thing.

Cusashorn · 04-01-2006, 04:37 AM

Abandoning and ignoring the mortals does not equal betraying them. In fact, we betrayed THEM.

And that's also on the assumption that the Ratonga were actually all that religious in the first place. We've seen no mention that they actually value religion or faith at all.

NocteBla · 04-01-2006, 05:27 AM

The ratonga aren't necessarily evil just because they live in Freeport. They are opportunistic and maybe a little shadey, but I don't think they are inherantly evil.

IrishWonder · 04-01-2006, 02:14 PM

ShintouShinai wrote:

Since they are from the Plane of the Underfoot, it is safe to assume that Brell Serillis created them. This produces a bit of a problem, seeing how Brell only created good and neutral races in the past (Dwarves are good, Gnomes are neutral).

Ratonga are an evil race however. Could this mean that Brell isn't a Good/Neutral god after all and is just a Neutral god? He did allow Cazic Thule and Rallos Zek to enter the pacts that put races on the land.

"Good" and "evil" are perceptions that we place on people/actions. For instance, when Innoruuk created the Dark Elves, he specifically did it with the intent to challenge/mock the elven empire. This was their intent from the start. Therefore, the Dark Elves are considered an "evil" race, and Innoruuk is considered an "evil" god.

However, when Brell created the Ratonga, or any of his many races for that matter, he didn't do it with any specific intent (other than populating Norrath with his creations). He didn't create the Dwarves to be good... they did that on their own. He didn't create the Ratonga to be evil (or align with Freeport... that action alone doesn't really make them "evil&quot SMILEY

, they did that on their own. That's the definition of neutrality.... Brell throws things at Norrath and let's them decide where to stick :smileywink: While the individual races chose to swing one way or another, Brell still created them as neutral in terms of the Freeport vs Qeynos debate. So I'd say Brell is still as neutral as he always was :smileywink:

On a side note, I'd think twice before labelling Brell as "Good/Neutral". He may have created the Dwarves, but if I remember correctly, he deceived the gods in order to get as many of his creations onto Norrath as possible. Deception, though the results may have been good, isn't exactly a "good" act :smileywink:

Delameko Stone · 04-03-2006, 02:40 PM

ShintouShinai wrote:
I hate talking about the Tier'dal, but they always sneak into every post. Fine I'll cave.

Queen Crissy actually got her way and is attempting to overtake the underfoot? How about a link to that thread as well.

Here you go :smileyhappy: :

The Tier'dal closed Neriak on purpose. The Tier'Dal Queen decided to march on the Underfoot during the shattering, causing the Ratonga(Roekillik, the 2nd generation, see other thread) to head to the surface for safety. They shut Neriak because they wanted total domination of the underground. The Tier'Dal on the surface are the outcasts of Neriak and looked upon by the real Tier'Dal as a disgrace and weak. The Underfoot is currently controlled by the Tier'dal and the vast kingdom of Neriak is alive and well beneath the surface. I'm sure adventurer's will encounter them one day. There is special hate for the Thexians, who are attempting to reopen Neriak and start a new empire. The halfling's invaded Neriak after the Tier'dal moved to the deeper Underfoot, as this was all a farce by the Tier'Dal Queen to make it look as if the Tier'Dal were defeated, when in fact the Tier'Dal are stronger then ever and are the force beneath Norrath.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=407#M407

SpryYoungE · 04-03-2006, 05:51 PM

The ratonga aren't inherently evil, merely opportunistic. The only reason they came to live in Freeport was that they helped the city fend off invasion by allowing supplies to be shipped through their tunnel networks from the Desert of Ro.

Also, the History of the Ratonga seems to indicate a link to the Underfoot, always speaking of the strange ways of the inhabitants of the 'Overworld.'

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 04-03-2006, 06:18 PM

Cusashorn wrote:
Abandoning and ignoring the mortals does not equal betraying them. In fact, we betrayed THEM.

And that's also on the assumption that the Ratonga were actually all that religious in the first place. We've seen no mention that they actually value religion or faith at all.

I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?

Cusashorn · 04-03-2006, 08:30 PM

MysidiaClash wrote:
I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?

That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place.

And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.

Trepan · 04-03-2006, 09:49 PM

MysidiaClash wrote:
I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?

I don't agree that Brell abandoned them.They were living IN the realm of the Underfoot. That is where Brell LIVES. If you still live in the house with your parents, they have not "abandoned" you. You leave the house and strike out on your own, again, you were not abandoned. You grew up and moved out (this adds a new spin on "Move out of your parent's basement" - your parent's house is the WORLD's basement!).As for talking about it: Religious Fanatiscm is for people with something to prove. Those who live with their god and know them personally... whats to prove? Facts is facts as boring as it is. It'd be like sharing an apartment with Elvis. You'd probably be less likely to run around bragging about it than complain about him leaving the cap off the toothpaste, or those (*&@#$ socks and underwear all over the floor! Dammit Elvis, can't you wash the frying pan after making a 'naner sandwich? STOP DRINKING OUT OF THE MILK CARTON!

Message Edited by Trepan on 04-03-200610:57 AM

Vhalen · 04-03-2006, 10:46 PM

I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth.

Nainitsuj · 04-03-2006, 11:18 PM

Vhalen wrote:
I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth.

So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"

Trepan · 04-03-2006, 11:46 PM

Nainitsuj wrote:
So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"

Oh man, thats a good one. *wipes tears from his eyes*.Don't forget to tip your wait-staff!Edit: That was sarcasm. You will never see the day that Vhalen is torn asunder by the Lore community because *HE* didn't know something about Norrathian lore in EQ2.

Message Edited by Trepan on 04-03-200612:48 PM

Araxes · 04-04-2006, 03:32 AM

You's will never knows our secrets! Nevers! NEVERS! yisyisHowevers ... we's knows our own secrets very wells, yis we do's.We's just not tellings. Nos nos nos.

Cusashorn · 04-04-2006, 03:33 AM

Trepan wrote:
Nainitsuj wrote:
So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"
Oh man, thats a good one. *wipes tears from his eyes*.Don't forget to tip your wait-staff!Edit: That was sarcasm. You will never see the day that Vhalen is torn asunder by the Lore community because *HE* didn't know something about Norrathian lore in EQ2.
Message Edited by Trepan on 04-03-200612:48 PM

Yeah. He's the one who creates it. Proving him wrong for any reason other than immediate short-term forgetfulness would be equivalent to dividing by Zero.

Delameko Stone · 04-04-2006, 01:31 PM

Nainitsuj wrote:
Vhalen wrote:
I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth.
So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"

No, he's saying the secrets that the ratonga know are not yet to be known by other races. And he can't reveal them to one without revealing to the whole.

DreamerClou · 04-05-2006, 01:07 AM

Like the last poster said, it seems Vhalen wants to reveal some Ratonga lore -- but to just the Ratonga players. Kind of like them knowing / having their own secret. The problem is that some of the Ratonga players might just blurt out what the secrets are to non-Ratonga players. He doesn't want that, which is understandable.

vikingthug · 04-05-2006, 05:14 PM

MysidiaClash wrote:
I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?

That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place.

And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.

Ok, Mr. I want to agrue with everyone...There is no proof that they werent either.. So, that being said, the ratling god was miffed, turned his back, and the cheese gobblers got bent out of shape and turned to the dark side.

Lets face it kids, whether we like it or not, it doesnt reallly matter. The Devs drop sublte hints, toss out the occasional bone, but to what effect? Keep us wondering, hoping maybe? We could sit here and debate the color of brells underwear or whether he goes commando or not, untill were blue in the face. And and soon as we come to a group concensus, the devs are apt to come along and drop something that only serves to stir up the pot again. Im sure that the devs love to sit back and watch as some of you who, take this way too serrious, dance like trained monkeys to theyre tune. Lets look at a few facts.

1. Gods left...Oh knows!

2. Some god created the rats...Oh knows!

3. 5 people actually play a ratonga charactor... Oh...wait, only five...hahahahahahah...(tear)

All joking aside, I know that many of you are very interested in your races orgins and history. But lets face it, EQ2 is the lazy mans EQ1. Sony made it incredibly simple for themselves by only allowing two starting points and lumping all the races into two cities. They dont have to concentrate on lore or history so much, since all they have to say is, "this is a new time line and things are different. " In other words, they are winging it and making it up as they go along.

Now, some of the new lore is fun to read, and I enjoy it, but Im not sure why they have this profound need to hide, or keep info from folks. Perhaps it makes them feel clever in some way. I say, if your not going to give up the info, then dont drop these subtle ultra vague clues hinting and what may or may not be revealed five expansions down there road, where gasp! There will still be only two places to start a toon and all the new content will be for the end game players.

Devs, you have some serriously lore hungry addicts lurking in theyre families basments clammoring for lore. Quit jerking them around and just tell them. This whole "I have a secret but Im not telling" routine is just stale. Dont get me wrong, but how long have the rats been running arund EQ2 now? And your still playing the secret game.. Enough is enough.

Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:37 AM

Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:42 AM

Delameko Stone · 04-05-2006, 06:31 PM

It's the same reason a book's ending isn't revealed on the first page...The subtle hints create intrigue and interest, it'd be awfully boring if everything was laid out for us with no secrets to discover.

Message Edited by Delameko Stone on 04-06-200609:55 AM

vikingthug · 04-05-2006, 09:16 PM

Your kidding me right? How long are they going to drag this out. I didnt say give up all the info now... But for the sake of those living in theyre mothers attic, atleat release the data in a timely fashion. I stand by my preveous statement. As far as lore goes with EQ2 its weaksauce, plain and simple. Its good, but weak and lacking.. if I order a hamburger and fries, dont just bring me the burger and tell me to wait for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fries.. But then again maybe they think they are being clever.. Hell my 3 year old thinks he's clever when he hides his food under his plate..Guess what? He's not, and neither are they for that matter. They have some very creative and intelligent people working for them of that Ive no doubt. But if i wanted a book about bread crumbs, Id have bought Hansel and Gretal. Its not that they are being stingy with the info, I just highly doubt they even have the info as of yet. Remember, when they brought on the whole this is a divergent timeline they pretty much were given free reign to make drek up as they went along.

Bottom line is this. The rat lovers want to know the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] basics on theyre race. How long are you gonna make them dance like circus monkeys. I believe that when someone has a valid question supported by some indepth investigations, the least you could do is give them the answer they are searching for, not some cryptic psycho babble that only confuses and prolongs the inevtiable.

Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200610:18 AM

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 04-05-2006, 09:19 PM

vikingthug wrote:
MysidiaClash wrote:
I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?
That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place.

And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.

   Ok, Mr. I want to agrue with everyone...There is no proof that they werent either.. So, that being said, the ratling god was miffed, turned his back, and the cheese gobblers got bent out of shape and turned to the dark side.
    Lets face it kids, whether we like it or not, it doesnt reallly matter. The Devs drop sublte hints, toss out the occasional bone, but to what effect? Keep us wondering, hoping maybe? We could sit here and debate the color of brells underwear or whether he goes commando or not, untill were blue in the face. And and soon as we come to a group concensus, the devs are apt to come along and drop something that only serves to stir up the pot again. Im sure that the devs love to sit back and watch as some of you who, take this way too serrious, dance like trained monkeys to theyre tune. Lets look at a few facts.
1. Gods left...Oh knows!
2. Some god created the rats...Oh knows!
3. 5 people actually play a ratonga charactor... Oh...wait, only five...hahahahahahah...(tear)
    All joking aside, I know that many of you are very interested in your races orgins and history. But lets face it, EQ2 is the lazy mans EQ1. Sony made it incredibly simple for themselves by only allowing two starting points and lumping all the races into two cities. They dont have to concentrate on lore or history so much, since all they have to say is, "this is a new time line and things are different. " In other words, they are winging it and making it up as they go along.
    Now, some of the new lore is fun to read, and I enjoy it, but Im not sure why they have this profound need to hide, or keep info from folks. Perhaps it makes them feel clever in some way. I say, if your not going to give up the info, then dont drop these subtle ultra vague clues hinting and what may or may not be revealed five expansions down there road, where gasp! There will still be only two places to start a toon and all the new content will be for the end game players.
    Devs, you have some serriously lore hungry addicts lurking in theyre families basments clammoring for lore. Quit jerking them around and just tell them. This whole "I have a secret but Im not telling" routine is just stale. Dont get me wrong, but how long have the rats been running arund EQ2 now? And your still playing the secret game.. Enough is enough.
Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:37 AM
Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:42 AM

Jesus dude, get [Removed for Content] off about it.

vikingthug · 04-05-2006, 09:22 PM

You hit the nail right on the head.. Here's your button. The dancing monkeys are over there, move along now nothing to see here.

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 04-06-2006, 12:40 AM

...but what if I don't like monkies?...:smileysad:

03-26-2006, 11:00 PM	#1
RoninSenshi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 194	The Ratonga are from a place in the Plane of the Underfoot called "The Vault of Serilis" (Serilis may be spelled wrong). You can find this information in the EQ2 Table Top Roleplay Guidebook, where they describe the Ratonga race. Since they are from the Plane of the Underfoot, it is safe to assume that Brell Serillis created them. This produces a bit of a problem, seeing how Brell only created good and neutral races in the past (Dwarves are good, Gnomes are neutral). Ratonga are an evil race however. Could this mean that Brell isn't a Good/Neutral god after all and is just a Neutral god? He did allow Cazic Thule and Rallos Zek to enter the pacts that put races on the land. Also, before anyone says it.. the Goblins were created by Rallos Zek, not Brell. __________________

03-26-2006, 11:24 PM	#3
RoninSenshi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 194	Gnolls aren't evil for the most part. Just human bigotry makes them seem like they are. As you said. But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath? __________________

03-26-2006, 11:28 PM	#4
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	ShintouShinai wrote: But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath? now that part is still a mystery.

03-27-2006, 05:32 PM	#5
Delameko Stone Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 279	Here's some info from an old post: -The Ratonga's real name are the Roekillik. -They were created by Brell and lived in the Underfoot and lived in the lowest depths. -The current Roekillik are the 2nd generation of them. The originals marched on the Underfoot so Brell locked them away in the deepest vaults of the Underfoot. The original's had incredible psychic powers and much larger teeth and claws, and used this to dominate the Underfoot. They were led by the great mage N'Gurai. Brell decided his creations were too powerful and locked them away. -Brell tried again and created the current ratonga, less intelligent, with less powers and smaller claws and teeth. However, he had Bristlebane assist him to give them a spot of mirth, which gave the current Ratonga rogue like qualities. These Ratonga made their way into the upper underfoot and adopted the name Adventurers gave them for their appearence-Ratonga. They made their way to the surface to escape the Tier'Dals queen domination of the Underfoot. That's right, The Tier'dal moved from Neriak to the Underfoot on purpose, closing Neriak on purpose. See other topic. -Most Ratonga have a strange series of circles with unaligned gaps tattooed on their chest. Reason why is unknown. -The original Roekillik have escaped the vaults of the Underfoot due to the shattering breaking the seal. N'Gurai still lives and have brought them to the ancient Dark Elf Fortress of Anetiff. The Roekillik have begun a genocide of the 2nd generation of Ratonga and plan to kill all of them, one by one. Here's the original post:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=406 Message Edited by Delameko Stone on 03-27-200612:34 PM

04-01-2006, 02:31 AM	#6
RoninSenshi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 194	I hate talking about the Tier'dal, but they always sneak into every post. Fine I'll cave. Queen Crissy actually got her way and is attempting to overtake the underfoot? How about a link to that thread as well. Back to Ratonga.. Cousins of the Roekillik you say? I really need to get on Shin and finish that Icy Digs quest thinggy. Would that also make the Ratonga the second race created by two gods (Barbarians being creatted by Mithanel and E. Marr?) Could it be possible that their is a current war going on in the Underfoot between the Tier'dal and the Ratpeoples down there? It is unfortunate that SoE never opened up the Underfoot in EQ1.. so many lore things die down there.. It would of been nice to get to explore the place, kick Brell around a bit for not inviting Innoruuk into the Pact.. etc.. __________________

03-26-2006, 11:21 PM	#2
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Brell has always been a Neutral god. He also created the gnolls, who arn't inherantly evil for the most part. Being neutral means that you don't have to play on only one side of the field or the other. You can play both if you wish.

04-01-2006, 02:45 AM	#7
MysidiaDrakkenbane Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 570	ShintouShinai wrote: Gnolls aren't evil for the most part. Just human bigotry makes them seem like they are. As you said. But this still is a first for Brell to create a completly evil race. Just seems odd that he would do it.. for what reasons would he sneak in another race into Norrath? Brell may not have created the Ratonga to be evil, but the free will that is given to us all might have turned them that way. Or, the Ratonga could have been angry for Brell to turn His back on them and decided to be spiteful and be evil.

04-01-2006, 03:04 AM	#8
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	MysidiaClash wrote: Or, the Ratonga could have been angry for Brell to turn His back on them and decided to be spiteful and be evil. What leads you to conclude that possibility?

04-01-2006, 03:06 AM	#9
MysidiaDrakkenbane Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 570	All of the gods abandoned their chosen children. The gods saw how greedy everyone was becoming and decided to close the planes up for visitors leaving norrath behind. It's part to the story when you first start your character. They go through the whole thing.

04-01-2006, 04:37 AM	#10
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Abandoning and ignoring the mortals does not equal betraying them. In fact, we betrayed THEM. And that's also on the assumption that the Ratonga were actually all that religious in the first place. We've seen no mention that they actually value religion or faith at all.

04-01-2006, 05:27 AM	#11
NocteBla General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 201	The ratonga aren't necessarily evil just because they live in Freeport. They are opportunistic and maybe a little shadey, but I don't think they are inherantly evil. __________________

04-01-2006, 02:14 PM	#12
IrishWonder Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 458	ShintouShinai wrote: Since they are from the Plane of the Underfoot, it is safe to assume that Brell Serillis created them. This produces a bit of a problem, seeing how Brell only created good and neutral races in the past (Dwarves are good, Gnomes are neutral). Ratonga are an evil race however. Could this mean that Brell isn't a Good/Neutral god after all and is just a Neutral god? He did allow Cazic Thule and Rallos Zek to enter the pacts that put races on the land. "Good" and "evil" are perceptions that we place on people/actions. For instance, when Innoruuk created the Dark Elves, he specifically did it with the intent to challenge/mock the elven empire. This was their intent from the start. Therefore, the Dark Elves are considered an "evil" race, and Innoruuk is considered an "evil" god. However, when Brell created the Ratonga, or any of his many races for that matter, he didn't do it with any specific intent (other than populating Norrath with his creations). He didn't create the Dwarves to be good... they did that on their own. He didn't create the Ratonga to be evil (or align with Freeport... that action alone doesn't really make them "evil&quot, they did that on their own. That's the definition of neutrality.... Brell throws things at Norrath and let's them decide where to stick :smileywink: While the individual races chose to swing one way or another, Brell still created them as neutral in terms of the Freeport vs Qeynos debate. So I'd say Brell is still as neutral as he always was :smileywink: On a side note, I'd think twice before labelling Brell as "Good/Neutral". He may have created the Dwarves, but if I remember correctly, he deceived the gods in order to get as many of his creations onto Norrath as possible. Deception, though the results may have been good, isn't exactly a "good" act :smileywink: __________________ The only Light you'll see from me, is that which burns the soul to see. Shadowreap Deathbane, The First Dark Elf Conjuror on Guk troopsofdoom.com - VIDEOS OF RAID MOBS!!! Nexona, Trakanon, Wuoshi, and more!

04-03-2006, 02:40 PM	#13
Delameko Stone Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 279	ShintouShinai wrote: I hate talking about the Tier'dal, but they always sneak into every post. Fine I'll cave. Queen Crissy actually got her way and is attempting to overtake the underfoot? How about a link to that thread as well. Here you go :smileyhappy: : The Tier'dal closed Neriak on purpose. The Tier'Dal Queen decided to march on the Underfoot during the shattering, causing the Ratonga(Roekillik, the 2nd generation, see other thread) to head to the surface for safety. They shut Neriak because they wanted total domination of the underground. The Tier'Dal on the surface are the outcasts of Neriak and looked upon by the real Tier'Dal as a disgrace and weak. The Underfoot is currently controlled by the Tier'dal and the vast kingdom of Neriak is alive and well beneath the surface. I'm sure adventurer's will encounter them one day. There is special hate for the Thexians, who are attempting to reopen Neriak and start a new empire. The halfling's invaded Neriak after the Tier'dal moved to the deeper Underfoot, as this was all a farce by the Tier'Dal Queen to make it look as if the Tier'Dal were defeated, when in fact the Tier'Dal are stronger then ever and are the force beneath Norrath. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=407#M407

04-03-2006, 05:51 PM	#14
SpryYoungE Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	The ratonga aren't inherently evil, merely opportunistic. The only reason they came to live in Freeport was that they helped the city fend off invasion by allowing supplies to be shipped through their tunnel networks from the Desert of Ro. Also, the History of the Ratonga seems to indicate a link to the Underfoot, always speaking of the strange ways of the inhabitants of the 'Overworld.' __________________

04-03-2006, 06:18 PM	#15
MysidiaDrakkenbane Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 570	Cusashorn wrote: Abandoning and ignoring the mortals does not equal betraying them. In fact, we betrayed THEM. And that's also on the assumption that the Ratonga were actually all that religious in the first place. We've seen no mention that they actually value religion or faith at all. I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you?

04-03-2006, 08:30 PM	#16
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	MysidiaClash wrote: I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you? That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place. And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it.

04-03-2006, 09:49 PM	#17
Trepan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellbound Handbasket Posts: 417	MysidiaClash wrote: I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you? I don't agree that Brell abandoned them.They were living IN the realm of the Underfoot. That is where Brell LIVES. If you still live in the house with your parents, they have not "abandoned" you. You leave the house and strike out on your own, again, you were not abandoned. You grew up and moved out (this adds a new spin on "Move out of your parent's basement" - your parent's house is the WORLD's basement!).As for talking about it: Religious Fanatiscm is for people with something to prove. Those who live with their god and know them personally... whats to prove? Facts is facts as boring as it is. It'd be like sharing an apartment with Elvis. You'd probably be less likely to run around bragging about it than complain about him leaving the cap off the toothpaste, or those (*&@#$ socks and underwear all over the floor! Dammit Elvis, can't you wash the frying pan after making a 'naner sandwich? STOP DRINKING OUT OF THE MILK CARTON! Message Edited by Trepan on 04-03-200610:57 AM __________________

04-03-2006, 10:46 PM	#18
Vhalen Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth. __________________ ------ Tony "Sir Lucan" Garcia EQII Game Designer

04-03-2006, 11:18 PM	#19
Nainitsuj Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Emerald Server Posts: 525	Vhalen wrote: I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth. So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed"

04-03-2006, 11:46 PM	#20
Trepan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellbound Handbasket Posts: 417	Nainitsuj wrote: So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed" Oh man, thats a good one. wipes tears from his eyes.Don't forget to tip your wait-staff!Edit: That was sarcasm. You will never see the day that Vhalen is torn asunder by the Lore community because HE didn't know something about Norrathian lore in EQ2. Message Edited by Trepan on 04-03-200612:48 PM __________________

04-04-2006, 03:32 AM	#21
Araxes Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 992	You's will never knows our secrets! Nevers! NEVERS! yisyisHowevers ... we's knows our own secrets very wells, yis we do's.We's just not tellings. Nos nos nos. __________________

04-04-2006, 03:33 AM	#22
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Trepan wrote: Nainitsuj wrote: So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed" Oh man, thats a good one. wipes tears from his eyes.Don't forget to tip your wait-staff!Edit: That was sarcasm. You will never see the day that Vhalen is torn asunder by the Lore community because HE didn't know something about Norrathian lore in EQ2. Message Edited by Trepan on 04-03-200612:48 PM Yeah. He's the one who creates it. Proving him wrong for any reason other than immediate short-term forgetfulness would be equivalent to dividing by Zero.

04-04-2006, 01:31 PM	#23
Delameko Stone Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 279	Nainitsuj wrote: Vhalen wrote: I was almost going to start typing facts about the Roekillil/ Ratonga origin. Their origin has been given, but never proven. I don't want to reveal anything before we give you a chance to hear the tales from creatures a lot closer to the cradle of Roekillik creation. There is much about the Ratonga that will be revealed some day. Its a tough balance when you want to provide the information to the Ratonga players without revealing them to others races. The Ratonga are not generous with the truth, evil or not. Did Brell abandon them? I doubt they would even be in existence if that were the truth. So basically you're saying "I got a whole bunch of ideas but I don't know how to introduce them without the community tearing me a new one with facts I had no idea existed" No, he's saying the secrets that the ratonga know are not yet to be known by other races. And he can't reveal them to one without revealing to the whole.

04-05-2006, 01:07 AM	#24
DreamerClou General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	Like the last poster said, it seems Vhalen wants to reveal some Ratonga lore -- but to just the Ratonga players. Kind of like them knowing / having their own secret. The problem is that some of the Ratonga players might just blurt out what the secrets are to non-Ratonga players. He doesn't want that, which is understandable. __________________ ___________________ Retired Cleric of The Spires of Innoruuk Your life is in our hands

04-05-2006, 05:14 PM	#25
vikingthug Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 152	MysidiaClash wrote: I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you? That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place. And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it. Ok, Mr. I want to agrue with everyone...There is no proof that they werent either.. So, that being said, the ratling god was miffed, turned his back, and the cheese gobblers got bent out of shape and turned to the dark side. Lets face it kids, whether we like it or not, it doesnt reallly matter. The Devs drop sublte hints, toss out the occasional bone, but to what effect? Keep us wondering, hoping maybe? We could sit here and debate the color of brells underwear or whether he goes commando or not, untill were blue in the face. And and soon as we come to a group concensus, the devs are apt to come along and drop something that only serves to stir up the pot again. Im sure that the devs love to sit back and watch as some of you who, take this way too serrious, dance like trained monkeys to theyre tune. Lets look at a few facts. 1. Gods left...Oh knows! 2. Some god created the rats...Oh knows! 3. 5 people actually play a ratonga charactor... Oh...wait, only five...hahahahahahah...(tear) All joking aside, I know that many of you are very interested in your races orgins and history. But lets face it, EQ2 is the lazy mans EQ1. Sony made it incredibly simple for themselves by only allowing two starting points and lumping all the races into two cities. They dont have to concentrate on lore or history so much, since all they have to say is, "this is a new time line and things are different. " In other words, they are winging it and making it up as they go along. Now, some of the new lore is fun to read, and I enjoy it, but Im not sure why they have this profound need to hide, or keep info from folks. Perhaps it makes them feel clever in some way. I say, if your not going to give up the info, then dont drop these subtle ultra vague clues hinting and what may or may not be revealed five expansions down there road, where gasp! There will still be only two places to start a toon and all the new content will be for the end game players. Devs, you have some serriously lore hungry addicts lurking in theyre families basments clammoring for lore. Quit jerking them around and just tell them. This whole "I have a secret but Im not telling" routine is just stale. Dont get me wrong, but how long have the rats been running arund EQ2 now? And your still playing the secret game.. Enough is enough. Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:37 AM Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:42 AM __________________ An open mind is the first step on the road to heresy. Suffer not the heretic nor the Xenos. "So, you're a role player huh?" "Isnt it time for you're medication?"

04-05-2006, 06:31 PM	#26
Delameko Stone Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 279	It's the same reason a book's ending isn't revealed on the first page...The subtle hints create intrigue and interest, it'd be awfully boring if everything was laid out for us with no secrets to discover. Message Edited by Delameko Stone on 04-06-200609:55 AM

04-05-2006, 09:16 PM	#27
vikingthug Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 152	Your kidding me right? How long are they going to drag this out. I didnt say give up all the info now... But for the sake of those living in theyre mothers attic, atleat release the data in a timely fashion. I stand by my preveous statement. As far as lore goes with EQ2 its weaksauce, plain and simple. Its good, but weak and lacking.. if I order a hamburger and fries, dont just bring me the burger and tell me to wait for the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fries.. But then again maybe they think they are being clever.. Hell my 3 year old thinks he's clever when he hides his food under his plate..Guess what? He's not, and neither are they for that matter. They have some very creative and intelligent people working for them of that Ive no doubt. But if i wanted a book about bread crumbs, Id have bought Hansel and Gretal. Its not that they are being stingy with the info, I just highly doubt they even have the info as of yet. Remember, when they brought on the whole this is a divergent timeline they pretty much were given free reign to make drek up as they went along. Bottom line is this. The rat lovers want to know the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] basics on theyre race. How long are you gonna make them dance like circus monkeys. I believe that when someone has a valid question supported by some indepth investigations, the least you could do is give them the answer they are searching for, not some cryptic psycho babble that only confuses and prolongs the inevtiable. Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200610:18 AM __________________ An open mind is the first step on the road to heresy. Suffer not the heretic nor the Xenos. "So, you're a role player huh?" "Isnt it time for you're medication?"

04-05-2006, 09:19 PM	#28
MysidiaDrakkenbane Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 570	vikingthug wrote: MysidiaClash wrote: I didn't say Brell betrayed them. I said he turned their backs on them, abandoning them. And I don't imagine the Ratonga would mention about being religious to a god that abandoned them. Would you? That still doesn't explain if they were even faithful or religious to Brell in the first place. THere's no information to show that they were in the first place. And I'm a Human monk of Quellious. So yes, I would mention it. Ok, Mr. I want to agrue with everyone...There is no proof that they werent either.. So, that being said, the ratling god was miffed, turned his back, and the cheese gobblers got bent out of shape and turned to the dark side. Lets face it kids, whether we like it or not, it doesnt reallly matter. The Devs drop sublte hints, toss out the occasional bone, but to what effect? Keep us wondering, hoping maybe? We could sit here and debate the color of brells underwear or whether he goes commando or not, untill were blue in the face. And and soon as we come to a group concensus, the devs are apt to come along and drop something that only serves to stir up the pot again. Im sure that the devs love to sit back and watch as some of you who, take this way too serrious, dance like trained monkeys to theyre tune. Lets look at a few facts. 1. Gods left...Oh knows! 2. Some god created the rats...Oh knows! 3. 5 people actually play a ratonga charactor... Oh...wait, only five...hahahahahahah...(tear) All joking aside, I know that many of you are very interested in your races orgins and history. But lets face it, EQ2 is the lazy mans EQ1. Sony made it incredibly simple for themselves by only allowing two starting points and lumping all the races into two cities. They dont have to concentrate on lore or history so much, since all they have to say is, "this is a new time line and things are different. " In other words, they are winging it and making it up as they go along. Now, some of the new lore is fun to read, and I enjoy it, but Im not sure why they have this profound need to hide, or keep info from folks. Perhaps it makes them feel clever in some way. I say, if your not going to give up the info, then dont drop these subtle ultra vague clues hinting and what may or may not be revealed five expansions down there road, where gasp! There will still be only two places to start a toon and all the new content will be for the end game players. Devs, you have some serriously lore hungry addicts lurking in theyre families basments clammoring for lore. Quit jerking them around and just tell them. This whole "I have a secret but Im not telling" routine is just stale. Dont get me wrong, but how long have the rats been running arund EQ2 now? And your still playing the secret game.. Enough is enough. Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:37 AM Message Edited by vikingthug on 04-05-200606:42 AM Jesus dude, get [Removed for Content] off about it.

04-05-2006, 09:22 PM	#29
vikingthug Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 152	You hit the nail right on the head.. Here's your button. The dancing monkeys are over there, move along now nothing to see here. __________________ An open mind is the first step on the road to heresy. Suffer not the heretic nor the Xenos. "So, you're a role player huh?" "Isnt it time for you're medication?"

04-06-2006, 12:40 AM	#30
MysidiaDrakkenbane Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 570	...but what if I don't like monkies?...:smileysad: